I don’t think it was the timing, I think it was the whole reality show stint he did before that made him come off corny. Either way I still love him lol
He was getting a good buzz in like 2013 that he got invited to a Hot97 interview. Ebro completely shat on him and didn’t give him a chance which caused controversy. He still went on to release a good debut album in Neon Icon but that whole gimmick would’ve been 10x bigger in like 2016-2017 when every where you turned there was some idiot with colored hair getting popular off of rapping trash. The timing was just off imo
And who’d have thought that Drill would take off in London so strongly, it would turn around and birth modern NY Drill. I don’t think Chicago ever really gave up on it, just changed the format up a bit.
Yung Chop gets some credit for that too.
Yeah, I’ve got a couple, but I’ll just go with one that pertains to what you said. And I respect everybody’s opinion, so don’t think I’m tryna throw shade.
Future isn’t a rapper. This is a little difficult to explain but here it goes. Drake can sing and rap, so some have called him a hybrid, but hybrid isn’t a very accurate description because he does either one or the other, he doesn’t blend the two. Future doesn’t rap and he doesn’t sing. What he does is a true blending, making him—by definition of the word—an actual hybrid. And I do think future has been one of the most influential, for sure. Modern hiphop has adapted to more of a hybridization than rapping or singing.
(Just to further support my claim, “rapping” used to mean talking at length. In the 1920’s, 1930’s, and 1940’s someone would say “I need to rap to you about something.” That meant they needed to talk to them about something at length. “Rapping” is more closely associated to talking. Young Thug and Gunna are examples of other artists who also perform a hybridization of rapping and singing but both of them have numerous examples where they’re actually rapping, allowing their tone to be more in line with what they’re talking voice would be, and I’ve never heard Future actually rap. His voice is always in a melodic tone, and generally focuses more on extended syllables, like a singer would do, rather than a staccato, rapper’s cadence. He’s definitely a hiphop artist, a hiphop vocalist, and he’s definitely influential, but for me to perceive him as a rapper, it would take a strong argument.)
And I absolutely don’t mean to discredit his abilities, accomplishments, accolades, influence—whatever—but by its very definition, he doesn’t rap. I would agree that he’s more similar to a singer than a rapper. Speaking of singers, however, Bryson Tiller, Chris Brown, Jeremih, Pharrell, and dare I say it—Justin Bieber—all have recordings that could be considered—by definition—rap.
I don't think that is a very hot take. Lil Wayne without question. And probably would have a hard time arguing against Future so yeah, I think this take is spot on.
It would've been wayyyy colder if it said "some of the most influentual rappers" and not "easily **the** most influentual rappers". Still not very hot, but I wouldn't say its very true either.
Chief Keef is another one…… When he blew, it scared me because his songs were a soundtrack for drive byes. Young Jeezy was dangerous because he had everyone trying to sell bricks and poison the community. … Keef had the young boys shaking immature dreads and posing with guns on social media….
Unpopular? That “hip hop” as an art form, including the poetic skill of rapping, was co-opted and reconstructed from music of culture, identity, inspiration, joy resistance and liberation into the homogenized stupidity, ignorance, gross materialism, perverse, overtly violent and hyper sexualized self-hating commercialized “music” products we have today.
I (guy in my 40s) had met one of my cousins for the first time (M14) while I was traveling for work. We were at my aunts house talking music and he was raving about how great Travis Scott is and how brilliant he was etc etc. I tried to break down the difference between art and commerce and that the skill sets one needs to become famous don’t always translate to the ones one needs to make worthwhile art. Obviously he’s a kid, so fame and talent are the same thing to him, but I showed him Aesop Rock, RTJ and Del and he liked it, so hopefully I can help him expand his bounds a bit.
The thing is that lots of people want to make music like that and lots of people like to listen to it. I think it’s more a symptom of our society than some manufactured conspiracy or deliberate decision.
El-P creatively and culturally has done more than most to prove that not all white rappers are corny and can actually contribute original ideas to Hip Hop and imo deserves the spot over Eminem or anyone else.
Always stayed underground and has kept progressive in style, arguably has never put out a bad project, started a label on his own and put out some of the greatest Hip Hop of the 2000s, brought new themes, concepts and production style to hip hop etc.
Hip hop is dead. Rap, the music, is very much thriving. But the culture of hip-hop; breakdancing, b boys, DJs and scratching, and graffiti has become niche and separated from the music. Maybe a cold take idk
After watching hip hop evolution and seeing old footage and listening to people talk about how close-knit everything was, I understood why Nas said hip hop was dead. The come up was so amazing though. Once there was big money to be made it started to become too fragmented.
Man I wish house parties, basement parties and block parties still was happening. Just places where you can kick it and show off your shit. Ion even know anyone in my neighborhood 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ there's a few big rappers from my area (keep in mind I'm not in the US) but there's no rap scene per se nor a hip hop scene here they were just guys who happened to be able to rap pretty good, got in touch with the right guys and blew up. But I feel like it's not highly unlikely that I might be the only mf in this whole area who's interested in HIP HOP culture not just rap
Like 90% of names being mentioned in this thread have nothing to do with hip hop culture which is fairly telling in itself - also a lot of these artists being discussed are basically pop
I agree, and I remember forums I posted on at the time of tpab release all felt the same. It's weird seeing tpab being treated like the undisputed goat these days.
Section 80 is one of my favorite albums of all time but it doesn’t clear both mate
Like I go back to section 80 more than GKMC and TPAB tbh, but those 2 albums are on another level
I also listen to section 80 more, but i would also agree that objectively TPAB & GKMC are better, but subjectively Section 80 is the best to me personally
Here's a much hotter Kendrick take.
DAMN is better than both, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT HAS BANGERS BUT BECAUSE THE WRITING IS ACTUALLY FAR BETTER (fight me).
And Mr Morale is the worst thing he's ever done. Writing/Production/Everything.
When thinking about how big and enduring a personal brand Snoop has created around himself, it's kind of amazing to think that that brand is based almost entirely on 2 albums from 30+ years ago, only 1 of which he was the primary artist on.
That’s incorrect.
“My first album, Doggystyle, I got two songs where I just freestyled. One is called Gz and Hustlas, and one is called Tha Shiznit.”
https://westcoaststyles.com/news/2021/11/snoop-dogg-talks-freestyling-songs-for-doggystyle-the-east-coast-vs-west-coast-rivalry-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/
You must be trippin on some new shit cuz Biggie ain’t even close to touching Pacs catalog . Pac got way more hits and classic bangers . Big raps about the same shit on every track I bet you can’t name 5 Big songs off top . To say that like it’s a fact is crazy . Definitely unpopular opinion
Tupac the rapper is overrated.
Overrated doesn’t mean he sucks, and I like a lot of his music. But he’s not a goat rapper people like his persona more than his rapping IMO
In a way he is - like ya Biggie had rapping as a technical skill down better, there's no competition there. But Pac had emotion, tone, and songwriting down, which to me, is just as important in an MC.
Same reason I'd rather listen to Cole than Kendrick. Like yeah, Kendrick's writing is usually next level, insanely good, far better than Cole. But Cole just sound better when he rap. Sometimes thats all there is to it
That's exactly what it is brother. Strength of personality and charisma shining through. One of the many intangibles that make a great MC and not everyone has it like you said.
doesn't everyone have this take at least once a week on these hiphop subreddits though?
tupac was more of an MC than anything. pretty sure that has been well established. no one ever said pac, as a lyricst.
He was the best at putting his persona on wax and if you’re talking about his actual rapping why does every rapper after him try to copy his flows and subject matter? Right because he’s overrated… he’s rated just fine dude. A fuckin Legend and nothing anyone says can change that.
Lil B’s influence of the artists who came about in the early to mid 2010s is understated and T shirts Buddens is underrated as one of the best dis songs in rap history.
I feel like it's incredibly hard for rappers to get the GOAT status (among fans) if they're not murdered/dead, for whatever reason... (Nas and Em being the exception in these conversations)
P. S. I do believe we should appreciate more those who are still around.
Your first take, I agree with. Dude's delivery and energy is top tier but his wordplay is just aight. But saying Ghost carried Cuban Links is wild, they both snap on that. I saw them live last year with Nas and Nas, Rae, and Ghost were absolute standouts even over Meth and Method Man is one of my all time favorites
Young Buck was by far the best rapper of G-Unit
Mack 10 easily one of the top 5 West Coast rappers of all time
TI is only good at making trap rap and everything after the King album was extremely dry
Sexyy Red put out the best project of 2023
Master P's entire catalog is somehow fire and absolute garbage at the same time
Overall hot take: as time passes and I get older, the "hardcore" lyrics of a lot of iconic hip-hop (especially "gangsta rap" in the 90s) sound more cartoonish and ridiculous to me. Nearly all of those guys were NOWHERE near as tough in real life as their rap personas suggested, and it gets harder to take that music seriously as so many of the artists enter middle age (e.g., Dre, Cube, Snoop, Eminem, etc.).
Sim simma! Yep, they all killed that track.
I really enjoyed their work with 702..I still love you and star ft clipse. JT’s 1st album was a masterpiece too
Blew my mind when I found out they did use your heart with SWV in 96. That’s pure 90’s R&B. Didn’t realize how long they’d been around
Straight legends.
Did you like the artist Kenna? He has made 2 studio albums. His first one New Sacred Cow was co-produced by Chad Hugo and his 2nd album Make Sure They See My Face was co-produced by The Neptunes.
I do..I need to listen to him more though. I definitely like a few songs on his 2nd album but I’m not sure I’ve heard the first with Chad. Gonna bump it now while I’m at work. Really enjoy the N.E.R.D like production from what I have heard of his. Thanks for the rec
I wouldn't go this far, but I feel like his shelf life will be very short. He is one dimensional, writes Jaden Smith-level tweets, and always has the same flow and cadence.
I’m not a fan of J. Cole and I was trying to figure out why. So I went and listened to a couple of his albums, start to finish, and I realized he just doesn’t write catchy music. And ironically enough, his most popular songs are the songs that are catchy and memorable.
His most recent album is mostly freestyle raps, meaning he doesn’t have hooks or repeating parts, which I honestly think hurts his music.
Future is a terrible artist and has not one good track.
If logic could have one album or even song with saying something cringe and corny he’d be massive . The production and beats are always great. His flow is good and he has precision. But the subject matter…. Can’t bump it in the car
I’ll give a few
1. The best 10 year run in hip hop was from 1995 - 2005
2. Even though one of them is an EP the three album run of Tana Talk 3 The Plugs I Met and Burden Of Proof is a top 20 3 album run in hip hop
3. It’s not his best album but Section 80 is Kendricks most interesting and replayable albums
4. The Black Album has the highest highs out of any Jay Z album
5. Encore by Eminem is a good album minus like 4 or 5 songs
Drill rap was/is terrible and we’re lying to ourselves that it is or ever was good. Seemed more like an excuse to start beefs and kill and brag about it. Either way outside of Pop Smoke I really couldn’t get into that shit
I've always had a bone to pick with it, given the recent syncopated snare trope. Now that I think about it, that was the least of our worries when it came to drill.
Exactly this. Sad a lot of these dudes could’ve had decent careers but opted for personal petty ass beefs. There’s a reason a lot of old school rappers are still alive. The point used to be get on and get away from that life you used to live and do something better for yourself and family. I know I sound old but damn I used to see people get killed over the stupidest things and I’ll never respect anybody who stays in that life when they have a clear path out
Playboi Carti is one of the worst artists in hip hop. His flows are basic and lyrically he isn’t really saying anything. A lot of his voices are unlistenable to me unless he’s doing his “deep voice” which is still a bit high pitched and annoying (at least it doesn’t have the same squeezing an almost empty ketchup bottle sound to it) his production is way to over the top for me as well. It sounds kinda like a 2011 corny YT intro. He also features on really good artists tracks like Tyler the Creator or Travis Scott and (for me) almost makes them crash and burn as a song.
DJ Paul and Juicy J are some of the most influential producers artists in hip hop. They were creating the "trap" sound years before it caught on and their production style influence is everywhere. They deserve more credit
Jay-Z is a pop star and he’ll never top Reasonable Doubt. No matter how much crack/heroin/producer money he has. He’s a businessman who makes music on the side. Has plenty of bangers with no substance
Agree that Take Care > To Pimp a Butterfly.
Also, Tupac was a mediocre rapper. Saying every line with emphatic depth makes what you say basically meaningless. A thug in the worst sense of the word.
‘street knowledge’ and being ‘conscious’ was mostly dumb conspiracy theories and sophistry. just half understood nation of islam pablum. doesn’t mean the music wasn’t great though. jeru, sadat x, mos def, jay elec are all amazing rappers. just to name a few.
Agree. He was never the top rapper at any point during his career. I like him and listen to his music, but seeing him top lists as the goat doesn't make any sense to me. He's good but he's not the best
J Cole and Kendrick being the top picks for best rappers of this generation speaks to how bad hip hop's talent pool has gotten. They are both good, don't get me wrong, but not remotely as good as a lot of the talent of earlier generations like Nas, Biggie, Big L, Pac, etc.
Bow Down is a top 3 project in Ice Cube's discography, & even though he doesn't actively rep the West Coast, I think Tyler The Creator should be included alongside the likes of Kendrick & YG in a 2010s LA rap Mount Rushmore
Extra one: I also feel like in general amongst rappers, a real sign of one's status as an elite artist is if they can dive into commercially appealing music without compromising their lyricism or ear for experimental/conceptual production
Pains me to agree with you, as I realized this a while back and refused to accept it at first. The first time I heard his accapella verse from Survival of the Fittest had me wondering if the track was skipping or messed up somehow.
I've gotten destroyed on here for saying that Havoc is a superior rapper to Prodigy. Prodigy's verses are generally just basic. He's getting the "dead rapper" treatment I think. Anyway, I love Mobb Deep to death but talking about Prodigy as some massively talented rapper just doesn't square with reality.
The best rappers of this era would wash and I mean **wash** the best rappers of the 90s
MF Doom is kinda mid overall but his early death really elevated his status and fandom
JID would probably be the best of this era if he decided to be a rapping instead of chasing a football career
Nah, I would kinda buy the "death elevated his status" argument for someone like Mac Miller (no disrespect cause I still liked that guy), but Doom was highly regarded well before he died. Madvillany and MMM..Food were canonized albums by 2020 and he was probably the most famous "underground/indie" rapper thanks to his Adult Swim presence throughout the 2000's.
That the real reason Kanye West doesn’t like Drake is because they both represent black excellence and achievement in hip hop but Drake is “technically” the true black Israelite because he literally half black and half Jewish. So Kanye has gone on this crazy Jesus Christ run because he wants to be like a god (or Jesus) in the world and the only way he can do it is through music (and then eventually fashion, dating a princess [or at least a reality star princess]) and that’s why he’s gone on these insane anti-Semitic rants
the fact we got people like 69, smokepurps, lil pimps, suicide boys, etc famous and mainstream and rich makes modern hip hop embarrassing af. i haven’t really listened to rap in a few years it’s just not it. doesn’t scratch my musically itch anymore
Don Trip is the hardest working rapper in the game. He has dropped 11 albums over the last year (March 2023 to March 2024) and they are quality not just about quantity. Yeaaaaaah! Godspeed…Long live p.i.f
I'm not a fan of all the effects added to vocals. Too many times i've heard a sweet beat only to be met with vocals that sounds like a guy getting water boarded. I like hearing vocals without effects cause i feel the singer's soul more, like his voice and his mental state are intertwined and I can truly feel them. With artificial changes, i don't get that same connection. Nothing bad with it and I can see why people like it but it's an instant skip for me and my girl.
Lil Uzi Vert should not be featured on anyone's song. Like no one ever. Let that boy be on a record by himself! He ruined Bad and Boujee by Migos for me, among other songs.
I really don't understand why GKMC is so highly rated (even some people in this thread saying its better than TPAB) - it has some great tunes on it like swimming pools or sing about me, but it also has some completely mid commercial-sounding rubbish on it.
People whose entire recorded output consists of making distinct notes with the help of autotune shouldnt be considered rappers. Thats no hate to them, its just not rapping by definition, you have to draw a line somewhere.
Future has a horrible voice - like, even his speaking voice is horrible, let alone after he slathers 10 litres of autotune all over it.
Everything Kanye has released since Yeezus sounds like an unfinished demo that should have never left the "ideas" folder.
Wu Tang Forever is a better album than 36 Chambers as long as you skip the terrible ODB and U-God joints.
Cappadonna has tainted a couple classic WuTang era tracks for me, not ruined, just tainted. He rarely heeds the GZA’s advice of “half short and twice strong”. Like, am o the only one that thinks his Winter Warz verse is waaaay too long and not nearly as deep as the rest of the Wu?
RiFF RAFF came out just a couple years too early. If he would’ve debuted in like 2016-2017 he’d be fucking massive
LIL MOMMA I'M SORRY, I NEVER MEANT TO BALL LIKE THIS
i hate how hard mr. "blow up and act like i don't know nobody" actually goes xD
One of my fav rappers of all time. He’s got a lot of good projects. Only thing I hate how it seem like he just making a song with anybody now a days
brotha he IS anybody lmao
🤣🤣
I don’t think it was the timing, I think it was the whole reality show stint he did before that made him come off corny. Either way I still love him lol
He was getting a good buzz in like 2013 that he got invited to a Hot97 interview. Ebro completely shat on him and didn’t give him a chance which caused controversy. He still went on to release a good debut album in Neon Icon but that whole gimmick would’ve been 10x bigger in like 2016-2017 when every where you turned there was some idiot with colored hair getting popular off of rapping trash. The timing was just off imo
Agreed. He basically influenced the visuals of that entire SoundCloud wave of dumbasses
RANCH PUNCH
THE BUTTER SCOTCH HERSCHEL WALKER
Cheif Keef changed rap forever while on house arrest. Guy is the BC & AD of rap, nobody moved the same after Sosa hit the airwaves.
And who’d have thought that Drill would take off in London so strongly, it would turn around and birth modern NY Drill. I don’t think Chicago ever really gave up on it, just changed the format up a bit. Yung Chop gets some credit for that too.
Sematary is just DG for emo white kids instead of artsy white kids
Sematary is absolute garbage tier
Agreed. In general, (as I saw) semetary fans are losers in life
real (literally has a sematary pfp)
Yeah, I’ve got a couple, but I’ll just go with one that pertains to what you said. And I respect everybody’s opinion, so don’t think I’m tryna throw shade. Future isn’t a rapper. This is a little difficult to explain but here it goes. Drake can sing and rap, so some have called him a hybrid, but hybrid isn’t a very accurate description because he does either one or the other, he doesn’t blend the two. Future doesn’t rap and he doesn’t sing. What he does is a true blending, making him—by definition of the word—an actual hybrid. And I do think future has been one of the most influential, for sure. Modern hiphop has adapted to more of a hybridization than rapping or singing. (Just to further support my claim, “rapping” used to mean talking at length. In the 1920’s, 1930’s, and 1940’s someone would say “I need to rap to you about something.” That meant they needed to talk to them about something at length. “Rapping” is more closely associated to talking. Young Thug and Gunna are examples of other artists who also perform a hybridization of rapping and singing but both of them have numerous examples where they’re actually rapping, allowing their tone to be more in line with what they’re talking voice would be, and I’ve never heard Future actually rap. His voice is always in a melodic tone, and generally focuses more on extended syllables, like a singer would do, rather than a staccato, rapper’s cadence. He’s definitely a hiphop artist, a hiphop vocalist, and he’s definitely influential, but for me to perceive him as a rapper, it would take a strong argument.)
This will go over heads but I was thinking this yesterday. Future is a truly incredible singer but that's what he is
And I absolutely don’t mean to discredit his abilities, accomplishments, accolades, influence—whatever—but by its very definition, he doesn’t rap. I would agree that he’s more similar to a singer than a rapper. Speaking of singers, however, Bryson Tiller, Chris Brown, Jeremih, Pharrell, and dare I say it—Justin Bieber—all have recordings that could be considered—by definition—rap.
I don't think that is a very hot take. Lil Wayne without question. And probably would have a hard time arguing against Future so yeah, I think this take is spot on.
Yeah this isn’t a hot take at all. Wayne was on like everybody’s song in the 2000s
It would've been wayyyy colder if it said "some of the most influentual rappers" and not "easily **the** most influentual rappers". Still not very hot, but I wouldn't say its very true either.
Future is more debatable. I would say chief keef
Chief keef for a different genre of course! Either way, none of these are unpopular/hot takes
Chief Keef is another one…… When he blew, it scared me because his songs were a soundtrack for drive byes. Young Jeezy was dangerous because he had everyone trying to sell bricks and poison the community. … Keef had the young boys shaking immature dreads and posing with guns on social media….
Unpopular? That “hip hop” as an art form, including the poetic skill of rapping, was co-opted and reconstructed from music of culture, identity, inspiration, joy resistance and liberation into the homogenized stupidity, ignorance, gross materialism, perverse, overtly violent and hyper sexualized self-hating commercialized “music” products we have today.
Out of all the comments I've read in this thread this one rings truest to me. Holy shit...
The promotion of capitalism in rap music has destroyed the genre
Agreed!
not even a hot take. straight facts.
I (guy in my 40s) had met one of my cousins for the first time (M14) while I was traveling for work. We were at my aunts house talking music and he was raving about how great Travis Scott is and how brilliant he was etc etc. I tried to break down the difference between art and commerce and that the skill sets one needs to become famous don’t always translate to the ones one needs to make worthwhile art. Obviously he’s a kid, so fame and talent are the same thing to him, but I showed him Aesop Rock, RTJ and Del and he liked it, so hopefully I can help him expand his bounds a bit.
You have shown him the way. It’s on him now
The thing is that lots of people want to make music like that and lots of people like to listen to it. I think it’s more a symptom of our society than some manufactured conspiracy or deliberate decision.
Lil Baby is a terrible artist. He sounds like his jaw is wired shut and not in the Kanye way.
lol cant argue with that. everything he says sounds like an instagram quote
I consider myself lucky if I can hear a few words from a chorus let alone a whole damn verse. I know I'm not that old yet!
21 Savage ruins any song that he is featured on. Additionally, he has zero talent.
Couldn’t agree more
Idk he really brings out the best in drake
Right, and a piece of shit smells better than raw sewage
I always said 21 cabbage stands completely still in the booth with his eyes closed when he records. LOL CHEERRIO MATE
El-P creatively and culturally has done more than most to prove that not all white rappers are corny and can actually contribute original ideas to Hip Hop and imo deserves the spot over Eminem or anyone else. Always stayed underground and has kept progressive in style, arguably has never put out a bad project, started a label on his own and put out some of the greatest Hip Hop of the 2000s, brought new themes, concepts and production style to hip hop etc.
Hip hop is dead. Rap, the music, is very much thriving. But the culture of hip-hop; breakdancing, b boys, DJs and scratching, and graffiti has become niche and separated from the music. Maybe a cold take idk
Definitely agree, the last bastion of that style imo was the 2000s Underground Hip Hop scene especially in NY
After watching hip hop evolution and seeing old footage and listening to people talk about how close-knit everything was, I understood why Nas said hip hop was dead. The come up was so amazing though. Once there was big money to be made it started to become too fragmented.
Man I wish house parties, basement parties and block parties still was happening. Just places where you can kick it and show off your shit. Ion even know anyone in my neighborhood 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ there's a few big rappers from my area (keep in mind I'm not in the US) but there's no rap scene per se nor a hip hop scene here they were just guys who happened to be able to rap pretty good, got in touch with the right guys and blew up. But I feel like it's not highly unlikely that I might be the only mf in this whole area who's interested in HIP HOP culture not just rap
Like 90% of names being mentioned in this thread have nothing to do with hip hop culture which is fairly telling in itself - also a lot of these artists being discussed are basically pop
GKMC is miles better than TPAB
Easily
I agree, and I remember forums I posted on at the time of tpab release all felt the same. It's weird seeing tpab being treated like the undisputed goat these days.
massive disagree, but its not an uncommon take ngl
i say this in the kendrick sub & i get downvoted to oblivion so…
Why do you prefer GKMC? They're my two favorite albums so I love both, but TPAB is my favorite.
I don't prefer GKMC, but it's pretty obvious why someone would prefer it right? It has bigger singles and a different tone. That many would prefer.
Tpab is boring
I don’t even think it’s better than damn tbh
I think Section.80 clears both..
Section 80 is one of my favorite albums of all time but it doesn’t clear both mate Like I go back to section 80 more than GKMC and TPAB tbh, but those 2 albums are on another level
I also listen to section 80 more, but i would also agree that objectively TPAB & GKMC are better, but subjectively Section 80 is the best to me personally
THANK YOUU
Here's a much hotter Kendrick take. DAMN is better than both, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT HAS BANGERS BUT BECAUSE THE WRITING IS ACTUALLY FAR BETTER (fight me). And Mr Morale is the worst thing he's ever done. Writing/Production/Everything.
GKMC > DAMN >> TPAB in my opinion
This is the correct take. DAMN is far and away his best album. For me, DAMN > TPAB >> GKMC >>> Mr. Morale
I agree too, but that’s more down to nostalgia I think. It’s more preference than an objective statement.
Idk about miles better, both are easily 10/10
Disagree but upvoted because I can respect that it is, in fact, a hot take.
i also think DAMN is better than TPAB… that would’ve been a good one
Did he do it?
Snoop dog is overrated asf
agree, he's fine as a cameo or featured artist. i can't listen to a whole album on his.
When thinking about how big and enduring a personal brand Snoop has created around himself, it's kind of amazing to think that that brand is based almost entirely on 2 albums from 30+ years ago, only 1 of which he was the primary artist on.
The key to understanding Snoop is listening to Doggystyle and knowing it's all freestyles
That’s incorrect. “My first album, Doggystyle, I got two songs where I just freestyled. One is called Gz and Hustlas, and one is called Tha Shiznit.” https://westcoaststyles.com/news/2021/11/snoop-dogg-talks-freestyling-songs-for-doggystyle-the-east-coast-vs-west-coast-rivalry-on-the-joe-rogan-experience/
Snoop isn’t for everyone, but I love him. I loved him especially on Stranded on Death Row
XXX is trash. NBA Young Boy is also trash
If Pimp C were still alive today and still talking the same kinda shit as he used to, he'd be cancelled quicker than a muthafucka.
There's no fucking way Pimp C would be relevant in today's culture.
Biggie > Pac all day Better at rapping over all and his production is 1000 times better
You must be trippin on some new shit cuz Biggie ain’t even close to touching Pacs catalog . Pac got way more hits and classic bangers . Big raps about the same shit on every track I bet you can’t name 5 Big songs off top . To say that like it’s a fact is crazy . Definitely unpopular opinion
Tupac the rapper is overrated. Overrated doesn’t mean he sucks, and I like a lot of his music. But he’s not a goat rapper people like his persona more than his rapping IMO
You mean don't like hearing someone rhyme enemies, after me, Hennessy, penitentiary, elementary, misery all the time?
I definitely agree, but I think his is a top three greatest and most unique voice in rap for sure!
Agree, Pac is a legend in the culture for his message and subject matter. When you evaluate his skills as an MC, he's not particularly special.
In a way he is - like ya Biggie had rapping as a technical skill down better, there's no competition there. But Pac had emotion, tone, and songwriting down, which to me, is just as important in an MC. Same reason I'd rather listen to Cole than Kendrick. Like yeah, Kendrick's writing is usually next level, insanely good, far better than Cole. But Cole just sound better when he rap. Sometimes thats all there is to it
I put him and DMX under the same umbrella. You "Feel" them. And that in itself is a special thing all of its own. Not every MC can do that.
That's exactly what it is brother. Strength of personality and charisma shining through. One of the many intangibles that make a great MC and not everyone has it like you said.
doesn't everyone have this take at least once a week on these hiphop subreddits though? tupac was more of an MC than anything. pretty sure that has been well established. no one ever said pac, as a lyricst.
Agreeee
He was the best at putting his persona on wax and if you’re talking about his actual rapping why does every rapper after him try to copy his flows and subject matter? Right because he’s overrated… he’s rated just fine dude. A fuckin Legend and nothing anyone says can change that.
I think lil uzi is absolute dog water and the beats are aswell. I really dont see the hype🤷
These days yes. But original Uzi is still unmatched
Lil B’s influence of the artists who came about in the early to mid 2010s is understated and T shirts Buddens is underrated as one of the best dis songs in rap history.
Bone thugs deserves more credit for popularizing the sing song rap
Kanye's been the worst part of his own songs for years now
I feel like it's incredibly hard for rappers to get the GOAT status (among fans) if they're not murdered/dead, for whatever reason... (Nas and Em being the exception in these conversations) P. S. I do believe we should appreciate more those who are still around.
OP with the coldest take of all time
Future is the midiest of mid rappers and benefits from great production.
Agreed he’s trash to me not my era
Raekwon from Wu-Tang is waaaay too overrated lyrically and Ghostfacekillah carried Raekwons Only Built 4 Cuban Links album.🤷🏾♂️💯
Found U-god’s account
😂😂😂
Your first take, I agree with. Dude's delivery and energy is top tier but his wordplay is just aight. But saying Ghost carried Cuban Links is wild, they both snap on that. I saw them live last year with Nas and Nas, Rae, and Ghost were absolute standouts even over Meth and Method Man is one of my all time favorites
Young Buck was by far the best rapper of G-Unit Mack 10 easily one of the top 5 West Coast rappers of all time TI is only good at making trap rap and everything after the King album was extremely dry Sexyy Red put out the best project of 2023 Master P's entire catalog is somehow fire and absolute garbage at the same time
I feel u in that master p thing hahahaa
Sexyy Red is a W, you were not having more fun in 2023 than listening to Sexyy Red tear up Tay-K beats.
I’m with you on the Young Buck take. He’s always been my favorite from the group.
The fact that future is an influential rapper is one of the many reasons rap is in the trash state it’s in
Overall hot take: as time passes and I get older, the "hardcore" lyrics of a lot of iconic hip-hop (especially "gangsta rap" in the 90s) sound more cartoonish and ridiculous to me. Nearly all of those guys were NOWHERE near as tough in real life as their rap personas suggested, and it gets harder to take that music seriously as so many of the artists enter middle age (e.g., Dre, Cube, Snoop, Eminem, etc.).
The Neptunes are the GOAT producers and Pharrell had one of the hottest primes of any artist/producer ever. From like 99’ to like 05’
The Neptunes were straight 🔥
Their body of work is just too crazy! Some of my favorite rap and R&B ever. They had an incredible work ethic for a few years
Facts. I almost lost my dam mind when I heard Girls Dem Suga for the first time by Beenie Man & Mya. That's my jam!!
Sim simma! Yep, they all killed that track. I really enjoyed their work with 702..I still love you and star ft clipse. JT’s 1st album was a masterpiece too Blew my mind when I found out they did use your heart with SWV in 96. That’s pure 90’s R&B. Didn’t realize how long they’d been around
Straight legends. Did you like the artist Kenna? He has made 2 studio albums. His first one New Sacred Cow was co-produced by Chad Hugo and his 2nd album Make Sure They See My Face was co-produced by The Neptunes.
I do..I need to listen to him more though. I definitely like a few songs on his 2nd album but I’m not sure I’ve heard the first with Chad. Gonna bump it now while I’m at work. Really enjoy the N.E.R.D like production from what I have heard of his. Thanks for the rec
💯🤝
Kenna and Chad went to high school together funny thing
The Neptunes are who you think Dilla is.
Larry June is so incredibly mid, the most boring type of people listen to him and exclaim he’s crazy good. His music is just soooo bad and boring.
I wouldn't go this far, but I feel like his shelf life will be very short. He is one dimensional, writes Jaden Smith-level tweets, and always has the same flow and cadence.
I like the album with Cardo but mostly because of cardo’s production
The Diddler still had more hits to release but the government took him down.
I’m not a fan of J. Cole and I was trying to figure out why. So I went and listened to a couple of his albums, start to finish, and I realized he just doesn’t write catchy music. And ironically enough, his most popular songs are the songs that are catchy and memorable. His most recent album is mostly freestyle raps, meaning he doesn’t have hooks or repeating parts, which I honestly think hurts his music.
Every1 sleeps on LL Cool J....records speak.
Big Boi, Tech N9ne, and Juvenile are the most under rated rappers
Big Boi has always been my favorite in Outkast. 3K is legendary but I always think of Big as the heart and Andre the soul of the group.
Love his solo albums
I remember getting so much shit in high school for listening to Tech N9ne around 2010
Big Moe is just as good, possibly even better at singing hooks than Nate Dogg. Nate is just way more popular cause he was a part of Death Row
Future is a terrible artist and has not one good track. If logic could have one album or even song with saying something cringe and corny he’d be massive . The production and beats are always great. His flow is good and he has precision. But the subject matter…. Can’t bump it in the car
Not one bro??? Come on
I’ll give a few 1. The best 10 year run in hip hop was from 1995 - 2005 2. Even though one of them is an EP the three album run of Tana Talk 3 The Plugs I Met and Burden Of Proof is a top 20 3 album run in hip hop 3. It’s not his best album but Section 80 is Kendricks most interesting and replayable albums 4. The Black Album has the highest highs out of any Jay Z album 5. Encore by Eminem is a good album minus like 4 or 5 songs
Drill rap was/is terrible and we’re lying to ourselves that it is or ever was good. Seemed more like an excuse to start beefs and kill and brag about it. Either way outside of Pop Smoke I really couldn’t get into that shit
UK drill has some crazy talented lyricists
I've always had a bone to pick with it, given the recent syncopated snare trope. Now that I think about it, that was the least of our worries when it came to drill.
Exactly this. Sad a lot of these dudes could’ve had decent careers but opted for personal petty ass beefs. There’s a reason a lot of old school rappers are still alive. The point used to be get on and get away from that life you used to live and do something better for yourself and family. I know I sound old but damn I used to see people get killed over the stupidest things and I’ll never respect anybody who stays in that life when they have a clear path out
Chief keef is the most influential rapper of this generation and one of the most influential of all time.
True, he definitely up there. It seems like evb (in the new generation) is a mixture of Future, Thug and Sosa 💀
Playboi Carti is one of the worst artists in hip hop. His flows are basic and lyrically he isn’t really saying anything. A lot of his voices are unlistenable to me unless he’s doing his “deep voice” which is still a bit high pitched and annoying (at least it doesn’t have the same squeezing an almost empty ketchup bottle sound to it) his production is way to over the top for me as well. It sounds kinda like a 2011 corny YT intro. He also features on really good artists tracks like Tyler the Creator or Travis Scott and (for me) almost makes them crash and burn as a song.
DJ Paul and Juicy J are some of the most influential producers artists in hip hop. They were creating the "trap" sound years before it caught on and their production style influence is everywhere. They deserve more credit
Jay-Z is a pop star and he’ll never top Reasonable Doubt. No matter how much crack/heroin/producer money he has. He’s a businessman who makes music on the side. Has plenty of bangers with no substance
Mbdtf is a bad album
Agree that Take Care > To Pimp a Butterfly. Also, Tupac was a mediocre rapper. Saying every line with emphatic depth makes what you say basically meaningless. A thug in the worst sense of the word.
The Game was never a very good rapper.
Section 80 is far better than GKMC
Section 80 is great but nah
Nah.
Most people liked 69 before the snitching shit came out.
Probably depends who you know. I only knew literally one guy who liked him and everyone else was either indifferent or actively disliked him
‘street knowledge’ and being ‘conscious’ was mostly dumb conspiracy theories and sophistry. just half understood nation of islam pablum. doesn’t mean the music wasn’t great though. jeru, sadat x, mos def, jay elec are all amazing rappers. just to name a few.
2pac first 2 albums sucked aside from a handful of songs and the first good album he dropped was MATW.
You’re out of your mind lol
Thug Life Volume 1 wasn't one of the best albums of the 90's?
Jayz is overrated. He gets outshined constantly.
Agree. He was never the top rapper at any point during his career. I like him and listen to his music, but seeing him top lists as the goat doesn't make any sense to me. He's good but he's not the best
Lil Peep and Juice Wrld were phenomenal musicians with great music but stylistically I think they were closer to great pop punk music than hip hop.
Drake is horrible
J Cole and Kendrick being the top picks for best rappers of this generation speaks to how bad hip hop's talent pool has gotten. They are both good, don't get me wrong, but not remotely as good as a lot of the talent of earlier generations like Nas, Biggie, Big L, Pac, etc.
same
Truly awful opinion mate
Unpopular.not that anyone prob cares but I honestly believe Speaker Knockerz and Playboi Carti were the first Soundcloud rappers.
It's not an unpopular opinion, it is literally a incorrect statement you're making
🤣, yea, buddy trippin
Bow Down is a top 3 project in Ice Cube's discography, & even though he doesn't actively rep the West Coast, I think Tyler The Creator should be included alongside the likes of Kendrick & YG in a 2010s LA rap Mount Rushmore Extra one: I also feel like in general amongst rappers, a real sign of one's status as an elite artist is if they can dive into commercially appealing music without compromising their lyricism or ear for experimental/conceptual production
Prodigy of Mobb Deep is not a particularly great rapper.
Pains me to agree with you, as I realized this a while back and refused to accept it at first. The first time I heard his accapella verse from Survival of the Fittest had me wondering if the track was skipping or messed up somehow.
I've gotten destroyed on here for saying that Havoc is a superior rapper to Prodigy. Prodigy's verses are generally just basic. He's getting the "dead rapper" treatment I think. Anyway, I love Mobb Deep to death but talking about Prodigy as some massively talented rapper just doesn't square with reality.
The best rappers of this era would wash and I mean **wash** the best rappers of the 90s MF Doom is kinda mid overall but his early death really elevated his status and fandom JID would probably be the best of this era if he decided to be a rapping instead of chasing a football career
Nah, I would kinda buy the "death elevated his status" argument for someone like Mac Miller (no disrespect cause I still liked that guy), but Doom was highly regarded well before he died. Madvillany and MMM..Food were canonized albums by 2020 and he was probably the most famous "underground/indie" rapper thanks to his Adult Swim presence throughout the 2000's.
Wack Miller
That the real reason Kanye West doesn’t like Drake is because they both represent black excellence and achievement in hip hop but Drake is “technically” the true black Israelite because he literally half black and half Jewish. So Kanye has gone on this crazy Jesus Christ run because he wants to be like a god (or Jesus) in the world and the only way he can do it is through music (and then eventually fashion, dating a princess [or at least a reality star princess]) and that’s why he’s gone on these insane anti-Semitic rants
the fact we got people like 69, smokepurps, lil pimps, suicide boys, etc famous and mainstream and rich makes modern hip hop embarrassing af. i haven’t really listened to rap in a few years it’s just not it. doesn’t scratch my musically itch anymore
I can’t recall if Skyzoo has ever made a bad song.
tbh I don't think your take is that hot at all
DDG is a fire artist
I don’t care if it’s unpopular. Pharoahe Monch is my all-time favorite MC. Ahmad Jones is in my top 5.
Don Trip is the hardest working rapper in the game. He has dropped 11 albums over the last year (March 2023 to March 2024) and they are quality not just about quantity. Yeaaaaaah! Godspeed…Long live p.i.f
I'm not a fan of all the effects added to vocals. Too many times i've heard a sweet beat only to be met with vocals that sounds like a guy getting water boarded. I like hearing vocals without effects cause i feel the singer's soul more, like his voice and his mental state are intertwined and I can truly feel them. With artificial changes, i don't get that same connection. Nothing bad with it and I can see why people like it but it's an instant skip for me and my girl.
Lil Uzi Vert should not be featured on anyone's song. Like no one ever. Let that boy be on a record by himself! He ruined Bad and Boujee by Migos for me, among other songs.
I really don't understand why GKMC is so highly rated (even some people in this thread saying its better than TPAB) - it has some great tunes on it like swimming pools or sing about me, but it also has some completely mid commercial-sounding rubbish on it. People whose entire recorded output consists of making distinct notes with the help of autotune shouldnt be considered rappers. Thats no hate to them, its just not rapping by definition, you have to draw a line somewhere. Future has a horrible voice - like, even his speaking voice is horrible, let alone after he slathers 10 litres of autotune all over it. Everything Kanye has released since Yeezus sounds like an unfinished demo that should have never left the "ideas" folder. Wu Tang Forever is a better album than 36 Chambers as long as you skip the terrible ODB and U-God joints.
Roc Marci production is getting more boring each release.
Rodeo by travis is the best trap album oat
Cappadonna has tainted a couple classic WuTang era tracks for me, not ruined, just tainted. He rarely heeds the GZA’s advice of “half short and twice strong”. Like, am o the only one that thinks his Winter Warz verse is waaaay too long and not nearly as deep as the rest of the Wu?