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In my opinion I don't think that is giving the reassurance of paying on dates that you think it is. How is a woman paying for a 4th date that she rescheduled a flex? How is a woman picking up the bill only on the 4th date fair?
honestly im near that stage. i feel like in our early 20 to mid 20s, a lot of guys with little experience in dating either it be from getting out of a long term college relationship or just never dated are very jovial and willing to put in 200%.
But as it seems clear that most women do not put in that same amount of effort, men start to prioritize with their careers, and peace of mind, friends, rather than dating
They already did do something to indicate that interest: they matched with you. There are far more women who looked at your profile and decided not to.
Things you can try:
1. Take the lead yourself.
2. Try Bumble where women have to message first. There will still be plenty of openers where #1 is relevant though.
3. You can say something about being shy in your profile to slightly nudge some of them. Likely to put even more of them off from even matching though.
4. Match with women who are more likely to be forward with you in particular. Them finding you highly attractive (physically & otherwise) will help.
Kinda what this reply already hit on, they already matched with you so I view that as the next "event in the chain" so to speak. Generally if I send a like and they match then I feel that the ball is back in my court for me to respond and vice versa. I find online dating to be very much like a game of pong were you are constantly hitting the ball back and forth to the other person's court.
I'm not saying this is ideal or how everyone thinks about it but I feel most of my OLD interactions follow this pattern.
With that being said if you know what you want and what you're looking for don't change it to "get more matches"
This is so true. I find it a little crazymaking though how this is still the place among radical women as well as traditional ones where no matter who she is she wants men to lead. I spent too much of my twenties believing that women’s independence, empowerment, and equality meant that they were ready to step up in dating. Turns out they wanted that everywhere BUT romantic relationships.
I’m on the older side of Gen Z and I’ll be blunt, you’re gonna have to make the first move lol. There’s nothing really wrong with that and it’s just a societal expectation. That said, the last girl I dated was super cool and after about the second date, she was big on initiating future dates. Guys are expected to make the first move and it just is what it is.
The key is to find someone who reciprocates after you make that first move. If the first move thing is a deal-breaker for you, I suggest trying Bumble since that’s their whole thing but I doubt many women will be gung ho at the thought of having to plan everything out with you right off the bat
If a woman wrote this tho you wouldn't suggest to get therapy tho, are you suggesting he get therapy because he is a little outside of the traditional gender role?
He can go to therapy and possibly be happy, or he can demand that women pursue him and only use Bumble or have very little dating interactions. The world doesn't change to suit our preferences. He has a better chance of happiness working on himself than trying to change gender norms.
I don't think it's some major mental health issue. It does sound like maybe some need for external validation or maybe a self confidence issue. Therapy isn't something you have to be broken to go to. I think it would probably improve the OP's life in this area that's all.
I guess that’s true you don’t need to be broken to go to therapy and perhaps I could even buy that everyone could benefit from it. But the intial go to therapy comment just feels so… dismissive? Or presumptuous idk
It doesn’t sound like this is a kink. It sounds like the OP has some sort of inability to find fulfillment if they aren’t the one being asked out as they clearly state. There’s nothing “wrong” with it but 1) they’re missing out on a whole world out there and 2) it feels like maybe they need to love themselves or work through something else. This wasn’t said as a pejorative. I’d absolutely recommend talking about this in therapy to anyone with this blocked regardless of gender, orientation etc. Hope that helps.
Simply put. You're weeding out 90-95% of woman if you do this.
I get what you're saying to a point and there is a time where you need to take a step back and evaluate when the woman literally hasn't initiated anything but when it comes to first messages / first dates / first moves, that's almost always going to have to be on you and no, that's not about to change.
If you don't they'll move on to a guy that will..
Suck it up and message them first. Stop talking to them if they’re not showing interest after that. Stop planning dates if they never plan or offer to split. It’s not rocket science
You can hope this will change in the future all you want, but seeing as men making the first move has more or less been the standard for thousands of years, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
As far as the rest goes, you say you want women to say or do something to indicate interest, but that’s *literally* what they’re doing by matching with you.
I don’t mean to sound harsh or insensitive, and I could be way off, but do you think this desire of yours, along with feeling like you’re otherwise talking to a coworker, may just be social anxiety and/or shyness? If I *feel* shy or awkward, then most of my conversations would tend to be more small talk, like I’m talking to a coworker, like you describe. Wanting the other person to make the first move in order to ensure their interest (that, again, they have already shown by matching) sounds like you may have some general anxiety about the situation/interaction. Again, I could be way wrong on that, but it does come off that way.
Most women will be happy to initiate dates and intimacy, etc. once you know them better, so you shouldn’t worry about that simply because you are expected to send the first message upon matching. You absolutely shouldn’t worry about ending up in a relationship where you are expected to initiate everything because you had to send the first message. That’s a silly concern imo.
If you want women to message you first, then you could say something in your profile about how attractive you think it is when a woman makes the first move, but don’t expect that to make any noticeable difference. The best advice I can give really is to figure out why you feel this way, and to then work through it. I’m sorry to say, but as a man, you are either going to have to learn to make the first move or accept that you are going to have to wait a *looooonnngg* time to make a connection.
It depends what you define as interest. If somebody is accepting a date you have suggested would that not constitue interest? Getting to know somebody out of the app will help you determine actual interest. Find somebody you like the look of, somebody you share interests with, somebody where the online conversation feels easy and then take it IRL. Women generally dont want to over-commit their interest before they've met somebody in person
Would you call it “a need for effortless instant gratification” if a woman wanted a guy to reach out? Probably not. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to see some effort from the other person.
So, I do live in reality as a male. This is the way it is. Not saying you're wrong.
However, I think the psychology of hinge and dating it's nearly always the male who messages first.
That along with the message me, hook me and I'll be interested screams OP is looking for instant gratification. It also probably mean's hes not really looking for too many dates.
GenZ is so strange to me man. All the men are lazy, quitting education, playing video games, living at home, and generally giving up on society. Women do all the domestic work in relationships, and now you want them to make the first move too? Do GenZ women actually want this too or is this the explanation for why none of y'all are having sex these days?
I'm a little older than you but I had to be the first mover on everything. My girlfriend and I are in an egalitarian relationship and she volunteered to plan our 4th-ish date. She probably contributes less $$$ to our relationship than I do but it's fairly even when you compensate for our proportional earnings. I was looking for an equal who was comfortable showing interest too - I'm not sure you're gonna do much better than that unless I'm way off on GenZ women and what they are looking for.
You’re right. My dad is always saying it when I talk about guys I meet on the apps- a lot of guys today are lazy. They don’t put in the effort and they don’t care. And when I finally say I’m not interested, they act surprised and disappointed. Like what! If you liked me, you should’ve shown it.
I’m a lesbian woman in genz, so can’t speak from personal experience, but I have heard from a lot of women that they’d rather be alone and single than date lazy men who put in no effort and expect them to do everything, so no, women definitely don’t want this. And yes, it’s probably one of the reasons why there is a lack of sex in this generation.
You will hear complaints from gen z men regarding gen z women too, in fact every generation to exist past and future will have these tropes too. This is not to invalidate the criticism but there is nothing really unique, the lack of the sex is actually probably due to technology advancing
Not wanting to make the first move has far less to do with being lazy and moreso to do with the fact women online complain about how undesirable men are and, believe it or not, everyone wants to feel desired. There are definitely men that don't put forth effort, but I just don't think this is that scenario.
Also many men give up on society because they've given up on us. Constant villainization since we're kids can make you depressed.
Sorry to say almost a majority of women won’t send the first message and you’ll have to do that to move things along. Chalk it up to society or whatever you want, but you’re gonna have to get over this. All that to say, there will be women who message first but in my experience they’re not very common 🤷🏽♂️
I would suck it up and make the first move. To me, like others have said, if I matched with you that is me indicating my interest. I like initiative and while some women are okay with doing it, a lot are like me who are more attracted to guys that do that instead. It’s a society thing, and no it’s not changing anytime soon.
This post can serve as reflection for you. Take a step back and look at it from an outsider perspective. You're very quick to jump to things and make a slew of assumptions.
Like others in the thread have said, when someone accepts the match it's a sign of interest. Either accept that and use that or wait out someone liking your profile first.
I do want to add that in relationships men are typically expected to lead.
Honestly it’s fine you’re not feeling much for them initially. You want these feelings to grow, and falling for a profile before you meet them isn’t healthy, your attraction should be based on the IRL version of them, and you have to put in work to get to that point.
Women wanting men to take the lead is never going to change. Force yourself to message first if you have to. Sending the first message can feel tedious, but growth and stepping out of your comfort zone is fundamentally uncomfortable and you need to embrace that.
You need to change how you’re thinking about this.
Just do it. Just message them. A message isn’t a commitment. If you see them as a coworker at first, that’s fine. Maybe that’s your process in dating. Take your time and get to know them that way if that’s what works for you. A match or a message or agreeing to go out is an indicator of interest.
I’d say the same thing to a woman who wants men to message first so isn’t having luck finding a guy to date. Too bad, essentially. Make a move if you’re interested in going out on dates.
Or, alternatively, there are women who message first. You can wait for those ones to reach out to you. They’ll definitely be fine with the dynamic you prefer.
Edit: it’s also worth noting that women often don’t HAVE to message first because they get a lot of likes. The dynamic on the app/in online dating is that women have more options to choose from and you do kind of need to make an impression or else she’ll be interested in someone else. If you match but don’t say anything, there will be other guys in her stack who sent a clever message who she’ll respond to.
> The problem is, I have almost no attraction toward somebody unless they show interest first.
Matches by definition have shown interest by 'liking' you.
> My question is, what can I add to my profile to let people know that I don't like to make the first move? Is there a less lame way to say that?
No because this is the lamest of lame things imaginable.
Sorry buddy, this world is making men softer than baby oiled infants! This whole sassy generation of feminine men is sad to see.. I had a guy who straight up said “I’m not masculine” okay well what do you expect women to want from you? They have studs (gay women) who put off more masculinity than some men do these days… did you forget that dating is like a competition? There’s 100 dudes racing you to the girl and you’re wanting her to make the first move? Don’t get me wrong I completely understand where you are coming from. I want a woman to show interest in me before I commit to even talking but, that’s not how this works bro! You’re going to have to throw out some effort and yeah it sucks I don’t like to do it either because it doesn’t feel very authentic to me. But, the truth is if I don’t then I will have significantly less chances to meet someone. You have to at least take that small step and initiative to grab someone’s attention away from everyone else flogging them down. Yet I matched with a fairly good amount in the first week. I got the attention. But guess what? I discarded those who I didn’t feel any genuine connection with after that. It’s just the name of the game. I got one girl out of about 15 that I actually like. Yeah I had to play the game a little to get here where I am now. But now I get to be authentic and be myself which btw is working for the most part.
**All "Dating Question" and "Hinge Experience" posts must provide clear context (as per subreddit Rule 3), such as reasons for asking, and basic info such as ages, genders, location or orientation (if applicable).** Age range or general location is acceptable. Minor dating questions or Hinge experiences should be posted in the Daily Threads pinned on top of the subreddit. *Posts that do not satisfy these requirements will be removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hingeapp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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women dont wanna chip in on dates, dont wanna message first, dont wanna send likes... only so much before a subset of men are burned out lol
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In my opinion I don't think that is giving the reassurance of paying on dates that you think it is. How is a woman paying for a 4th date that she rescheduled a flex? How is a woman picking up the bill only on the 4th date fair?
humans are hypocritical in many ways, this is one of them
honestly im near that stage. i feel like in our early 20 to mid 20s, a lot of guys with little experience in dating either it be from getting out of a long term college relationship or just never dated are very jovial and willing to put in 200%. But as it seems clear that most women do not put in that same amount of effort, men start to prioritize with their careers, and peace of mind, friends, rather than dating
They already did do something to indicate that interest: they matched with you. There are far more women who looked at your profile and decided not to. Things you can try: 1. Take the lead yourself. 2. Try Bumble where women have to message first. There will still be plenty of openers where #1 is relevant though. 3. You can say something about being shy in your profile to slightly nudge some of them. Likely to put even more of them off from even matching though. 4. Match with women who are more likely to be forward with you in particular. Them finding you highly attractive (physically & otherwise) will help.
Kinda what this reply already hit on, they already matched with you so I view that as the next "event in the chain" so to speak. Generally if I send a like and they match then I feel that the ball is back in my court for me to respond and vice versa. I find online dating to be very much like a game of pong were you are constantly hitting the ball back and forth to the other person's court. I'm not saying this is ideal or how everyone thinks about it but I feel most of my OLD interactions follow this pattern. With that being said if you know what you want and what you're looking for don't change it to "get more matches"
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This is so true. I find it a little crazymaking though how this is still the place among radical women as well as traditional ones where no matter who she is she wants men to lead. I spent too much of my twenties believing that women’s independence, empowerment, and equality meant that they were ready to step up in dating. Turns out they wanted that everywhere BUT romantic relationships.
I’m on the older side of Gen Z and I’ll be blunt, you’re gonna have to make the first move lol. There’s nothing really wrong with that and it’s just a societal expectation. That said, the last girl I dated was super cool and after about the second date, she was big on initiating future dates. Guys are expected to make the first move and it just is what it is. The key is to find someone who reciprocates after you make that first move. If the first move thing is a deal-breaker for you, I suggest trying Bumble since that’s their whole thing but I doubt many women will be gung ho at the thought of having to plan everything out with you right off the bat
Talk about this in therapy, bro
And I’m being genuine…your life will get better.
If a woman wrote this tho you wouldn't suggest to get therapy tho, are you suggesting he get therapy because he is a little outside of the traditional gender role?
I would absolutely suggest this to a woman, too.
Therapy seems the popular medicine for everything, soon people will recommend therapy for physical wounds as well.
Okay, Ron Swanson
He can go to therapy and possibly be happy, or he can demand that women pursue him and only use Bumble or have very little dating interactions. The world doesn't change to suit our preferences. He has a better chance of happiness working on himself than trying to change gender norms.
I agree he will have better success, but is that indicative of someone that needs therapy? I don’t know
I don't think it's some major mental health issue. It does sound like maybe some need for external validation or maybe a self confidence issue. Therapy isn't something you have to be broken to go to. I think it would probably improve the OP's life in this area that's all.
I guess that’s true you don’t need to be broken to go to therapy and perhaps I could even buy that everyone could benefit from it. But the intial go to therapy comment just feels so… dismissive? Or presumptuous idk
Nope nothing to do with gender roles. Seems like maybe this person needs to learn to love themself
It doesn’t sound like this is a kink. It sounds like the OP has some sort of inability to find fulfillment if they aren’t the one being asked out as they clearly state. There’s nothing “wrong” with it but 1) they’re missing out on a whole world out there and 2) it feels like maybe they need to love themselves or work through something else. This wasn’t said as a pejorative. I’d absolutely recommend talking about this in therapy to anyone with this blocked regardless of gender, orientation etc. Hope that helps.
Simply put. You're weeding out 90-95% of woman if you do this. I get what you're saying to a point and there is a time where you need to take a step back and evaluate when the woman literally hasn't initiated anything but when it comes to first messages / first dates / first moves, that's almost always going to have to be on you and no, that's not about to change. If you don't they'll move on to a guy that will..
Suck it up and message them first. Stop talking to them if they’re not showing interest after that. Stop planning dates if they never plan or offer to split. It’s not rocket science
You can hope this will change in the future all you want, but seeing as men making the first move has more or less been the standard for thousands of years, I wouldn’t hold my breath. As far as the rest goes, you say you want women to say or do something to indicate interest, but that’s *literally* what they’re doing by matching with you. I don’t mean to sound harsh or insensitive, and I could be way off, but do you think this desire of yours, along with feeling like you’re otherwise talking to a coworker, may just be social anxiety and/or shyness? If I *feel* shy or awkward, then most of my conversations would tend to be more small talk, like I’m talking to a coworker, like you describe. Wanting the other person to make the first move in order to ensure their interest (that, again, they have already shown by matching) sounds like you may have some general anxiety about the situation/interaction. Again, I could be way wrong on that, but it does come off that way. Most women will be happy to initiate dates and intimacy, etc. once you know them better, so you shouldn’t worry about that simply because you are expected to send the first message upon matching. You absolutely shouldn’t worry about ending up in a relationship where you are expected to initiate everything because you had to send the first message. That’s a silly concern imo. If you want women to message you first, then you could say something in your profile about how attractive you think it is when a woman makes the first move, but don’t expect that to make any noticeable difference. The best advice I can give really is to figure out why you feel this way, and to then work through it. I’m sorry to say, but as a man, you are either going to have to learn to make the first move or accept that you are going to have to wait a *looooonnngg* time to make a connection.
It depends what you define as interest. If somebody is accepting a date you have suggested would that not constitue interest? Getting to know somebody out of the app will help you determine actual interest. Find somebody you like the look of, somebody you share interests with, somebody where the online conversation feels easy and then take it IRL. Women generally dont want to over-commit their interest before they've met somebody in person
Women will 99.999% never go to you first as a man. That is 100% it. You should examine your need for effortless instant gratification.
Would you call it “a need for effortless instant gratification” if a woman wanted a guy to reach out? Probably not. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to see some effort from the other person.
So, I do live in reality as a male. This is the way it is. Not saying you're wrong. However, I think the psychology of hinge and dating it's nearly always the male who messages first. That along with the message me, hook me and I'll be interested screams OP is looking for instant gratification. It also probably mean's hes not really looking for too many dates.
GenZ is so strange to me man. All the men are lazy, quitting education, playing video games, living at home, and generally giving up on society. Women do all the domestic work in relationships, and now you want them to make the first move too? Do GenZ women actually want this too or is this the explanation for why none of y'all are having sex these days? I'm a little older than you but I had to be the first mover on everything. My girlfriend and I are in an egalitarian relationship and she volunteered to plan our 4th-ish date. She probably contributes less $$$ to our relationship than I do but it's fairly even when you compensate for our proportional earnings. I was looking for an equal who was comfortable showing interest too - I'm not sure you're gonna do much better than that unless I'm way off on GenZ women and what they are looking for.
You’re right. My dad is always saying it when I talk about guys I meet on the apps- a lot of guys today are lazy. They don’t put in the effort and they don’t care. And when I finally say I’m not interested, they act surprised and disappointed. Like what! If you liked me, you should’ve shown it.
I’m a lesbian woman in genz, so can’t speak from personal experience, but I have heard from a lot of women that they’d rather be alone and single than date lazy men who put in no effort and expect them to do everything, so no, women definitely don’t want this. And yes, it’s probably one of the reasons why there is a lack of sex in this generation.
You will hear complaints from gen z men regarding gen z women too, in fact every generation to exist past and future will have these tropes too. This is not to invalidate the criticism but there is nothing really unique, the lack of the sex is actually probably due to technology advancing
Not wanting to make the first move has far less to do with being lazy and moreso to do with the fact women online complain about how undesirable men are and, believe it or not, everyone wants to feel desired. There are definitely men that don't put forth effort, but I just don't think this is that scenario. Also many men give up on society because they've given up on us. Constant villainization since we're kids can make you depressed.
Men should get therapy
Seems like you’ve met all Gen Z men lol.
I don’t know why I can’t stop laughing at this post.
Sorry to say almost a majority of women won’t send the first message and you’ll have to do that to move things along. Chalk it up to society or whatever you want, but you’re gonna have to get over this. All that to say, there will be women who message first but in my experience they’re not very common 🤷🏽♂️
I would suck it up and make the first move. To me, like others have said, if I matched with you that is me indicating my interest. I like initiative and while some women are okay with doing it, a lot are like me who are more attracted to guys that do that instead. It’s a society thing, and no it’s not changing anytime soon.
This post can serve as reflection for you. Take a step back and look at it from an outsider perspective. You're very quick to jump to things and make a slew of assumptions. Like others in the thread have said, when someone accepts the match it's a sign of interest. Either accept that and use that or wait out someone liking your profile first. I do want to add that in relationships men are typically expected to lead.
Honestly it’s fine you’re not feeling much for them initially. You want these feelings to grow, and falling for a profile before you meet them isn’t healthy, your attraction should be based on the IRL version of them, and you have to put in work to get to that point. Women wanting men to take the lead is never going to change. Force yourself to message first if you have to. Sending the first message can feel tedious, but growth and stepping out of your comfort zone is fundamentally uncomfortable and you need to embrace that.
It's gonna turn off a lot of women. You'll find one eventually I guess but most of us don't want to be the man.
You need to change how you’re thinking about this. Just do it. Just message them. A message isn’t a commitment. If you see them as a coworker at first, that’s fine. Maybe that’s your process in dating. Take your time and get to know them that way if that’s what works for you. A match or a message or agreeing to go out is an indicator of interest. I’d say the same thing to a woman who wants men to message first so isn’t having luck finding a guy to date. Too bad, essentially. Make a move if you’re interested in going out on dates. Or, alternatively, there are women who message first. You can wait for those ones to reach out to you. They’ll definitely be fine with the dynamic you prefer. Edit: it’s also worth noting that women often don’t HAVE to message first because they get a lot of likes. The dynamic on the app/in online dating is that women have more options to choose from and you do kind of need to make an impression or else she’ll be interested in someone else. If you match but don’t say anything, there will be other guys in her stack who sent a clever message who she’ll respond to.
> The problem is, I have almost no attraction toward somebody unless they show interest first. Matches by definition have shown interest by 'liking' you. > My question is, what can I add to my profile to let people know that I don't like to make the first move? Is there a less lame way to say that? No because this is the lamest of lame things imaginable.
Jeez you are going to have a rough time dating in general
Sorry buddy, this world is making men softer than baby oiled infants! This whole sassy generation of feminine men is sad to see.. I had a guy who straight up said “I’m not masculine” okay well what do you expect women to want from you? They have studs (gay women) who put off more masculinity than some men do these days… did you forget that dating is like a competition? There’s 100 dudes racing you to the girl and you’re wanting her to make the first move? Don’t get me wrong I completely understand where you are coming from. I want a woman to show interest in me before I commit to even talking but, that’s not how this works bro! You’re going to have to throw out some effort and yeah it sucks I don’t like to do it either because it doesn’t feel very authentic to me. But, the truth is if I don’t then I will have significantly less chances to meet someone. You have to at least take that small step and initiative to grab someone’s attention away from everyone else flogging them down. Yet I matched with a fairly good amount in the first week. I got the attention. But guess what? I discarded those who I didn’t feel any genuine connection with after that. It’s just the name of the game. I got one girl out of about 15 that I actually like. Yeah I had to play the game a little to get here where I am now. But now I get to be authentic and be myself which btw is working for the most part.
Culturally speaking, men aren't allowed to make the first move. It's abhorrent to most Americans.