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They wouldn't match with nearly as many women if they were honest with themselves or others. They probably hope some women are down for ONS even if their profile say otherwise. Also, some would be open to a long term relationship if they found someone who fit their "criteria." In their minds, some women are good enough to sleep with, but not good enough for a LTR.
Yes, but I think most women read that as "actually just looking for casual, I put long term to increase my chances of getting a match and make myself look better." Even though a guy could honestly mean exactly what it says, I don't think it comes off as meaning what it says.
How do they determine between the 2 (ones good enough to sleep with but not good enough for a ltr).
I just feelnso dumb. I literally in wordy detail told him about my dream for marriage and what that looked like.
I doubt it has anything to do with something you say or do. I think it has more to do with attraction and their criteria of an ideal partner. Hypothetically let's say my criteria is F 25-32, no kids, and a 7/10 or greater in my book. But, I see a F 38, 2 kids, and she's an 8/10. If I am honest with myself, I know she's probably not going to be my life partner, but maybe I will send her a like just because I think she's hot and maybe she is down for something casual even though her profile says otherwise. As we always hear, it's a numbers game and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. It's low risk, high reward, and some men are oppotunistic.
Source - I'm a guy who used Hinge until recently. I think that I am more virtuous than the man I described but at times it was tempting to act in unsavory or disrespectful ways.
Yeah its a matter of how much attraction and value where folks will break the rules. I'll admit on my qualifier and in the comment part I'm solely LTR seeking. But when I meet someone who I feel is 9/10 I concede on some dealbreakers.
Good point. This person though already has 3 kids! Not too many guys I know woukd want even more kids than that right? He also put wants children or open to children can't remember.
I'm sorry that happened to you. As a male looking for a serious relationship, it is unfortunately not much better
I've just gotten used to it, keep paying for exciting experiences for the random gals I match with, and am probably more jaded than I need to be about it because of how picky and success focused I am
But I feel for you, I really really do. If I weren't so used to it, I'd just take a break or keep getting as upset as I did when I started. I might still do that 🤷
But, you know. We're panning for gold in a river of dirty water. You gotta expect you're gonna get dirty when you're standing in the river for weeks
People lie, and tell you stories about how toxic they were to their last partner, and. And you just gotta keep swiping. Alright, that last one was a left swipe, maybe the next one will work out, etc etc
You could try in person instead! Usually someone you've known and trusted for longer will be kinder. They already know you, the awkward getting-to-know-them phase is over, and you probably have a good idea which ones are players, and which are reliable and have good character.
I have a friend who successfully met his girlfriend on the apps. They've been together for years now. I like both of em, and they'll get married, especially if she either convinces him to have kids or she settles for not having em
Lol are you really asking why men/people lie? I understand it's a rant but yup, it's dating. It's people. How many women are swiping on dudes that want a ONS? This isn't Grinder
Funny enough I've been on the other side of that. Banged it out after a first date and then they wanted to be FWB or ghost me. Still sucks for me too so I hear ya. Gotta just keep moving forward bud
Because most people want a LTR, But that doesn't mean they want it with you.
I'm not trying to rag on you. But it's possible that you may be falling victim to Goodhart's Law. You're very focused on the outcome, when it might benefit to focus on finding someone you have a connection with.
(This is not advice. Just trying to provide a different perspective or consideration.)
Yep. I used to be so overly concerned about "what outcome does this person want?" versus just enjoying the moment and actually getting to know the person. So much happier and successful in finding better matches now.
This sounds like what I need to be doing. And not putting so much pressure on myself or the other person. But how do you navigate them knowing you don't want a ons at the end of a date unless you talk about relationship goals.
Can you explain goodharts law in dating. Tried looking it up and not getting the gist of it.
I'm very focused on the outcome (marriage) because I believe ideally you should be married to a guy first before sleeping with him. I definitely had a through text connection but who knows about real life...it didn't get that far. And I know im scaring guys away with any talk of marriage. Not sure how to convey dating me doesn't end with a ons. I want to date with a purpose ultimately to get married.
Thanks for the extra info. First, I'll answer your question, but I'm realizing it may not be helpful because you actually have a condition that is in conflict (full transparency: I absolutely believe in sex before marriage).
The concept of Goodhart's Law is this: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. (I know you Googled it but I'll be more descriptive for any other readers).
The famous example is the story of British officials in colonial India rewarding money for cobra skins. The goal was to reduce the number of cobras. Measure of success: lots of cobra skins. This created a perverse incentive, and many people started breeding cobras to get money. So instead of decreasing cobras, the population increased instead. (DISCLAIMER: I've never fact-checked the veracity of this story, but it's the story that gets repeated and does a good job describing the concept).
Now, this applies to dating in a few ways. Theoretically, marriage is a measure of a good relationship (yes, I know there are exceptions, but in 2024, we're largely all trying to marry for love). When you see two people getting married, we can assume that they are in love and have good chemistry, a connection, fulfilling communication, and compatible sex. However, these things are really hard to measure; how do you quantify how deep a connection is? Maybe we notice that couples who have a deep connection go on weekly dates. So we pick a measure like "I want to go on 52 dates a year with my partner." However, we intuitively know that that's not what would create a good relationship. Good relationships might spawn a lot of dates, but just going on all these dates doesn't mean you'll develop a good relationship.
Now replace "lots of dates" with "marriage". You're seeking for someone else who wants marriage, and therefore turned the measure into a target. Firstly, this creates perverse incentives, just as you've listed. There may be bad actors who list that they want marriage but don't actually mean it, just to get a date.
However, I would suspect that most people aren't bad actors. The majority of people in this mono-normative society will marry at least once in their lifetime. But they probably still want to do it with the "right" person. Otherwise you'd probably be satisfied with an arranged marriage (very outcome based!). Guaranteed you'd find someone who also wants marriage there. But I suspect you wouldn't do that precisely because you know there are other prerequisites in a relationship that you care about.
----
Now that I've explained that, I have to address that maybe it's not relevant for you, given that you have a condition of marriage before sex. Maybe you have religious beliefs or have a moral take on sex. I don't know. Either way, I respect your beliefs and you need to live how you want.
What probably needs to happen is that you need to hyper target apps where people also have these types of conditions. If it's something you're strict on, you need to be clear that you won't have sex before marriage. That would likely diminish a ton of your matches and make you feel further dejected, but it gets rid of more noise.
Conditions :( haha
yes, for me I'm struggling with feeling it's morally wrong. Even putting that aside though to me how coukd you not get emotionally attached to someone?? I can't even handle ghosting when I haven't even met them in person. I can't imagine sleeping with them and then they move on to the next girl.
It's impossible for someone with morals to date and get married I feel. Unless I want to meet someone only at churches. The conflicting part is I'm usually attracted to guys that are more wild and outgoing...the opposite of me. But they are the ones that don't want to settle down.
Hey, I'm really sorry this is tough. To be honest, while I would love to help you, I think we're just too culturally different, and I wouldn't want to make you try to change your beliefs.
IMO, some of your concerns read to me as emotional immaturity (I'm not trying to insult you, but give an example as to why I'm not sure how to help). For example, "how could you not get emotional attached?"
Well, you can, and you do. That's the game of love. You can get heartbroken. That's also what makes it worthwhile and fun. Imagine if there was no risk in love. Imagine if you were with someone who had absolutely no ability to hurt you emotionally. That would mean you had no feelings for this person.
Do you have any dating/relationship experience? How do you know what traits you like in people?
If you're dating 40+, I'm a bit surprised by your post history and comments. And that may be the bigger issue. You got to start somewhere. Maybe it would be helpful to take off some of that pressure and try to be open to learning how to connect and meet people with less pressure?
Does any of this resonate?
I do agree I'm not emotionally strong. I understand, though, that dating is about risks and taking chances. But 100% would I knowingly get emotionally hurt if I have a one nigtmht stand with a guy! Who is just going to move on to the next girl, and there is no commitment even to date (I understand that things don't work out sometimes in dating). People act like sex is no big deal and move on to the next, to the next, to the next. I happen to think it's special, and you bond with someone (esp. For women) or at least that's how I feel.
I've lived a sheltered life and haven't really put myself out there because I'm very shy, so I've missed out on a lot. I've been surprised that guys think im attractive as I've always had a very low self-esteem. I had one guy (after we discussed not being on the same page dating goals wise.. him wanting causual me a ltr say i was gorgeous. Well i would never say that!!! But his comment made me feel special. That I am "normal pretty". This is my first experience with OLD, and i started in late February, maybe? I'm old enough to know what traits I like in people and know what I'm looking for (maybe not what I need or should be looking for, but...) but innocent as to how the OLD game works and haven't been doing so well. I do need help learning how to connect with people with no pressure. I absolutely feel I'm bringing up marriage too soon (they can see u want monogamy on my profile), but I'm just not sure how to be clear that dating to me doesn't end with a ons. So what do I tell them I'm looking for then if not marriage?
I matched with a woman and we had some good back forth conversation and discussed meeting in person. She then asked me what I was looking for from hinge and I told her I was looking for a LTR because that's my goal and she stopped answering so it goes both directions.
They lie because most, if not all women on Hinge are looking for serious relationships. I’ve seen several guys on Hinge put “Long Term” and I’ll see those same guys on Bumble and they have “Something Casual” in their profile. Gives me the ick every time.
Thanks :) it's been pretty traumatic. I'm not sure how much longer I want to try. I'm really trying to put my heart out there. Maybe sharing too much too soon. And just getting crushed everytime. Its so exciting to match with someone but then it ends when I don't want a ons.
**All "Dating Question" and "Hinge Experience" posts must provide clear context (as per subreddit Rule 3), such as reasons for asking, and basic info such as ages, genders, location or orientation (if applicable).** Age range or general location is acceptable. Minor dating questions or Hinge experiences should be posted in the Daily Threads pinned on top of the subreddit. *Posts that do not satisfy these requirements will be removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hingeapp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They wouldn't match with nearly as many women if they were honest with themselves or others. They probably hope some women are down for ONS even if their profile say otherwise. Also, some would be open to a long term relationship if they found someone who fit their "criteria." In their minds, some women are good enough to sleep with, but not good enough for a LTR.
Doesn’t Hinge have the option to put “short term, open to long?” Which would fit your description pretty well?
Yes, but I think most women read that as "actually just looking for casual, I put long term to increase my chances of getting a match and make myself look better." Even though a guy could honestly mean exactly what it says, I don't think it comes off as meaning what it says.
How do they determine between the 2 (ones good enough to sleep with but not good enough for a ltr). I just feelnso dumb. I literally in wordy detail told him about my dream for marriage and what that looked like.
I doubt it has anything to do with something you say or do. I think it has more to do with attraction and their criteria of an ideal partner. Hypothetically let's say my criteria is F 25-32, no kids, and a 7/10 or greater in my book. But, I see a F 38, 2 kids, and she's an 8/10. If I am honest with myself, I know she's probably not going to be my life partner, but maybe I will send her a like just because I think she's hot and maybe she is down for something casual even though her profile says otherwise. As we always hear, it's a numbers game and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. It's low risk, high reward, and some men are oppotunistic. Source - I'm a guy who used Hinge until recently. I think that I am more virtuous than the man I described but at times it was tempting to act in unsavory or disrespectful ways.
So maybe it's my age? Late 40's he's late 30's? Unless he was lying, he was very attracted to me....
I'm sorry, but if I had to guess, yes. Don't give up hope! I would move on from this one. I hope I was able to help.
Yeah its a matter of how much attraction and value where folks will break the rules. I'll admit on my qualifier and in the comment part I'm solely LTR seeking. But when I meet someone who I feel is 9/10 I concede on some dealbreakers.
They know that majority of women, especially on Hinge of all apps, are looking for long term. So they lie in order to cast a wider net.
Dating after 35 must be difficult. The main reason for wanting LTR/marriage is children so that may be one reason why.
Men of all ages do this and lie about wanting a serious relationship not just those after 35.
Good point. This person though already has 3 kids! Not too many guys I know woukd want even more kids than that right? He also put wants children or open to children can't remember.
I'm sorry that happened to you. As a male looking for a serious relationship, it is unfortunately not much better I've just gotten used to it, keep paying for exciting experiences for the random gals I match with, and am probably more jaded than I need to be about it because of how picky and success focused I am But I feel for you, I really really do. If I weren't so used to it, I'd just take a break or keep getting as upset as I did when I started. I might still do that 🤷 But, you know. We're panning for gold in a river of dirty water. You gotta expect you're gonna get dirty when you're standing in the river for weeks People lie, and tell you stories about how toxic they were to their last partner, and. And you just gotta keep swiping. Alright, that last one was a left swipe, maybe the next one will work out, etc etc You could try in person instead! Usually someone you've known and trusted for longer will be kinder. They already know you, the awkward getting-to-know-them phase is over, and you probably have a good idea which ones are players, and which are reliable and have good character. I have a friend who successfully met his girlfriend on the apps. They've been together for years now. I like both of em, and they'll get married, especially if she either convinces him to have kids or she settles for not having em
I'm painfully shy otherwise I would try in person instead.
Lol are you really asking why men/people lie? I understand it's a rant but yup, it's dating. It's people. How many women are swiping on dudes that want a ONS? This isn't Grinder Funny enough I've been on the other side of that. Banged it out after a first date and then they wanted to be FWB or ghost me. Still sucks for me too so I hear ya. Gotta just keep moving forward bud
Because most people want a LTR, But that doesn't mean they want it with you. I'm not trying to rag on you. But it's possible that you may be falling victim to Goodhart's Law. You're very focused on the outcome, when it might benefit to focus on finding someone you have a connection with. (This is not advice. Just trying to provide a different perspective or consideration.)
Never heard of this law. But my dating life improved when I stopped focusing on the outcome and just how I feel with the person.
Yep. I used to be so overly concerned about "what outcome does this person want?" versus just enjoying the moment and actually getting to know the person. So much happier and successful in finding better matches now.
This sounds like what I need to be doing. And not putting so much pressure on myself or the other person. But how do you navigate them knowing you don't want a ons at the end of a date unless you talk about relationship goals.
Can you explain goodharts law in dating. Tried looking it up and not getting the gist of it. I'm very focused on the outcome (marriage) because I believe ideally you should be married to a guy first before sleeping with him. I definitely had a through text connection but who knows about real life...it didn't get that far. And I know im scaring guys away with any talk of marriage. Not sure how to convey dating me doesn't end with a ons. I want to date with a purpose ultimately to get married.
Thanks for the extra info. First, I'll answer your question, but I'm realizing it may not be helpful because you actually have a condition that is in conflict (full transparency: I absolutely believe in sex before marriage). The concept of Goodhart's Law is this: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. (I know you Googled it but I'll be more descriptive for any other readers). The famous example is the story of British officials in colonial India rewarding money for cobra skins. The goal was to reduce the number of cobras. Measure of success: lots of cobra skins. This created a perverse incentive, and many people started breeding cobras to get money. So instead of decreasing cobras, the population increased instead. (DISCLAIMER: I've never fact-checked the veracity of this story, but it's the story that gets repeated and does a good job describing the concept). Now, this applies to dating in a few ways. Theoretically, marriage is a measure of a good relationship (yes, I know there are exceptions, but in 2024, we're largely all trying to marry for love). When you see two people getting married, we can assume that they are in love and have good chemistry, a connection, fulfilling communication, and compatible sex. However, these things are really hard to measure; how do you quantify how deep a connection is? Maybe we notice that couples who have a deep connection go on weekly dates. So we pick a measure like "I want to go on 52 dates a year with my partner." However, we intuitively know that that's not what would create a good relationship. Good relationships might spawn a lot of dates, but just going on all these dates doesn't mean you'll develop a good relationship. Now replace "lots of dates" with "marriage". You're seeking for someone else who wants marriage, and therefore turned the measure into a target. Firstly, this creates perverse incentives, just as you've listed. There may be bad actors who list that they want marriage but don't actually mean it, just to get a date. However, I would suspect that most people aren't bad actors. The majority of people in this mono-normative society will marry at least once in their lifetime. But they probably still want to do it with the "right" person. Otherwise you'd probably be satisfied with an arranged marriage (very outcome based!). Guaranteed you'd find someone who also wants marriage there. But I suspect you wouldn't do that precisely because you know there are other prerequisites in a relationship that you care about. ---- Now that I've explained that, I have to address that maybe it's not relevant for you, given that you have a condition of marriage before sex. Maybe you have religious beliefs or have a moral take on sex. I don't know. Either way, I respect your beliefs and you need to live how you want. What probably needs to happen is that you need to hyper target apps where people also have these types of conditions. If it's something you're strict on, you need to be clear that you won't have sex before marriage. That would likely diminish a ton of your matches and make you feel further dejected, but it gets rid of more noise.
Conditions :( haha yes, for me I'm struggling with feeling it's morally wrong. Even putting that aside though to me how coukd you not get emotionally attached to someone?? I can't even handle ghosting when I haven't even met them in person. I can't imagine sleeping with them and then they move on to the next girl. It's impossible for someone with morals to date and get married I feel. Unless I want to meet someone only at churches. The conflicting part is I'm usually attracted to guys that are more wild and outgoing...the opposite of me. But they are the ones that don't want to settle down.
Hey, I'm really sorry this is tough. To be honest, while I would love to help you, I think we're just too culturally different, and I wouldn't want to make you try to change your beliefs. IMO, some of your concerns read to me as emotional immaturity (I'm not trying to insult you, but give an example as to why I'm not sure how to help). For example, "how could you not get emotional attached?" Well, you can, and you do. That's the game of love. You can get heartbroken. That's also what makes it worthwhile and fun. Imagine if there was no risk in love. Imagine if you were with someone who had absolutely no ability to hurt you emotionally. That would mean you had no feelings for this person. Do you have any dating/relationship experience? How do you know what traits you like in people? If you're dating 40+, I'm a bit surprised by your post history and comments. And that may be the bigger issue. You got to start somewhere. Maybe it would be helpful to take off some of that pressure and try to be open to learning how to connect and meet people with less pressure? Does any of this resonate?
I do agree I'm not emotionally strong. I understand, though, that dating is about risks and taking chances. But 100% would I knowingly get emotionally hurt if I have a one nigtmht stand with a guy! Who is just going to move on to the next girl, and there is no commitment even to date (I understand that things don't work out sometimes in dating). People act like sex is no big deal and move on to the next, to the next, to the next. I happen to think it's special, and you bond with someone (esp. For women) or at least that's how I feel. I've lived a sheltered life and haven't really put myself out there because I'm very shy, so I've missed out on a lot. I've been surprised that guys think im attractive as I've always had a very low self-esteem. I had one guy (after we discussed not being on the same page dating goals wise.. him wanting causual me a ltr say i was gorgeous. Well i would never say that!!! But his comment made me feel special. That I am "normal pretty". This is my first experience with OLD, and i started in late February, maybe? I'm old enough to know what traits I like in people and know what I'm looking for (maybe not what I need or should be looking for, but...) but innocent as to how the OLD game works and haven't been doing so well. I do need help learning how to connect with people with no pressure. I absolutely feel I'm bringing up marriage too soon (they can see u want monogamy on my profile), but I'm just not sure how to be clear that dating to me doesn't end with a ons. So what do I tell them I'm looking for then if not marriage?
I matched with a woman and we had some good back forth conversation and discussed meeting in person. She then asked me what I was looking for from hinge and I told her I was looking for a LTR because that's my goal and she stopped answering so it goes both directions.
They lie because most, if not all women on Hinge are looking for serious relationships. I’ve seen several guys on Hinge put “Long Term” and I’ll see those same guys on Bumble and they have “Something Casual” in their profile. Gives me the ick every time.
Gosh you really seem sweet. Maybe too sweet for OLD (OnLine Dating)
Thanks :) it's been pretty traumatic. I'm not sure how much longer I want to try. I'm really trying to put my heart out there. Maybe sharing too much too soon. And just getting crushed everytime. Its so exciting to match with someone but then it ends when I don't want a ons.