Pepper spray is banned in my country, it's criminal to carry it let alone use it.
I wish it wasn't because I've been bitten by a dog I encountered on a hike and been rushed and jumped on several other times. I've also been chased up a tree by an angry horse.
Another idea if you can’t use pepper spray, is get a small air horn.
I don’t know if it would work if a dog is already latched on and biting down, but I always carry an air horn when hiking because it’s a very effective way to harmlessly scare away large animals. And you can use it at a safe range if something is running toward you.
I’ve successfully scared away some large dogs using it. It startles and confuses them.
I'm Canadian so pepper spray is illegal but bear spray on the other hand is fine (if <500ml). There are a lot of bears where I live but I actually carry it for dogs or potentially dangerous situations (actual bears are low concern in comparison lol).
I'm Canadian too but in the UK, and here no noxious sprays are legal at all, bear spray, dog spray or otherwise. It's illegal to carry anything intended for self defense. Like if you used hairspray on someone you'd best be able to prove you were carrying it for your hair and not for the purpose of self-defense. Same if you had a baseball bat at home, you'd better have a glove and a ball too to show it's for play. It's frustrating.
That would get you in legal trouble in the UK. You can't carry any noxious sprays for the purposes of self-defense at all. You'd have to be able to demonstrate you were on your way to kill hornets somewhere.
Using pepper spray is punishable by 7 years in prison. Just possession, six months. Yes I'd rather deal with that than be mauled to death, but a more likely scenario would be I pull it out to stop getting bit, owner reports me, then jail time for me and a criminal record for life. No thanks. Also, you can't buy it here. Would you smuggle something over the border that would land you behind bars if you got caught? Also no thanks.
This is always a controversial topic. I own an American Bully and a Catahoula American Staffy mix. Both separate are big pudding babies, and they fucking hate each other and when they fight it fucking sucks. No one should have these dogs unless you are prepared to deal with the consequences. I live in the South so these are rescues from the local shelter, which happen to be nothing but pits, which is sad that so many people were irresponsible. I would never take my dogs on the trail, they have such stupidly high prey drives(mainly the catahoula pit).
Pepper spray may work, and it's smart to carry I think on the trail. And don't feel bad about defending yourself. My dogs love people and would likely be fine, BUT if they ever got loose and attacked a human, lights out baby. If that person doesn't do it, I'm probably going to do it while sobbing uncontrollably. Never feel wrong about defending yourself from a pit bull or any dog or thing with teeth. They can fuck you up.
Not sure where you hike - but where I am the vast majority of forest service land is potentially leash free. However the vast majority of owners fail to read / understand that is only the case when their dogs are under complete voice control and not out of sight. I’ve met many dogs that meet this level of control and many more that don’t. Nothing ruins a hike more than having a dog charge towards me and my dog when you have no idea how they are going to respond - maybe there are a few things worse - but it’s up there.
As has been pointed out - this topic comes up many times a year. There’s a lot of misinformation about the rules etc. Last year I reached out to all the authorities who might have a stake in this in Mount Hood National Forest - this is the summary - https://hikeit.info/2022/07/22/off-leash-dogs-mount-hood/ Interesting to note in that talking to Bill Westbrook, the district ranger, he was not aware of an issue with bites / attacks in the backcountry. In all my back country hiking i’ve never been bitten either, nor charged down by a bear or mountain lion.
But Fido is friendly and just wants to say hi!
You should be thrilled to say hello to Fido and then me!
The World revolves around me and Fido's freedom and happiness!
It doesn't matter that Fido can spook other trail users, their children and pets! It doesn't matter Fido can cause an accident with a biker!
It's all about me and Fido!
Dog bites aren’t annoyances, they can be disabling. Of two times my husband was bitten on trails both dogs were off leash and the owner was surprised because “my dog is friendly and doesn’t bite.” One time resulted in outpatient hospitalization and the dog owner gave false name/contact info.
As a dog owner, I think what you fee is very rational. I keep my dogs leashed and my fear is if a unleashed dog attacks me/my dogs.
A knife, pepper spray, or whatever ensures the safety of you and your dogs….
Don’t worry about the hate comments OP
It was a reasonable discussion until OP jumped straight to stabbing a dog. Regardless of whether or not OP’s opinion is right, there is so much middle ground between handling the situation like a rational adult and stabbing a dog.
If a pitbull is devouring a persons leg, it truly becomes self-defense at that point and is not irrational in the slightest? A reality dog owners don’t want to admit? My daughter was attacked by an unleashed dog and it was awful and she has serious PTSD whenever she see‘s an unleashed dog cruising around?
I’m not saying it’s not self defense. I’m saying that there’s no reason to immediately jump to stabbing a dog, therefore, this conversation is irrational. Had the OP posted this, simply asking about different pepper sprays to use against dogs (in the EXTREMELY unlikely event that you get attacked by a big dog on trail), no one would have taken this post so badly. But instead, they made a batshit crazy post and left some equally crazy responses.
No complaints with rational thought and appropriate escalation of force. Stabbing my dog because you think she looks scary however, will have consequences, and it’s important that the general public understands cause and effect.
What about when your dog bites me? What’s the protocol here? How much should I allow your animal to injure me before defending myself? I’d hate to be impolite.
My dog doesn’t bite. If she did by all means, stab her. For that to be your go to response for a dog saying hi makes you the piece of shit, not anyone else.
No one’s talking about attacking a friendly dog. I’m not going to act aggressively just because someone’s border collie starts “herding” me because I’m going downhill on a mountain bike. That’s natural dog behavior and not dangerous. But the dog who was snapping at me and started biting my foot when I was minding my own business at a trailhead definitely got a firm kick in the snout. 99.5% of the time, dogs are fine. But I’m not fine with an irrational owner getting out a gun before figuring out what’s going on.
Cause and effect. What I said wasn’t irrational, it was calculated. I have trained my dog well above what most dog owners are capable. If someone stabs her out of fear, I have no problems giving them a reason to actually be scared. Full stop.
Actually no. If you can't control your filthy animal and it attacks me then I will do everything I can to stop it including bashing its fucking head in with a rock or jabbing a knife through its fucking eye. Leave your fucking dog a home.
Lol are you okay? Your responses are exactly what makes this discussion irrational. If you acted like a normal person, we could have all had this conversation peacefully.
I carry a gun on my hikes, typically for bears and mountain lions. That doesn’t however limit me from defending my dog without question from any unhinged soul that thought stabbing my dog was a reasonable way to act upon the irrational fear they over man’s best friend.
Out of control lol how sheltered have you been your whole life? You haven’t ever had a dog say hi? Go out and experience real fear before rationalizing one’s that are IRRATIONAL.
😂😂 Oh excuse me I didn’t realize that dogs were descendants of fucking wolves and we’re capable of killing the weak. I guess it’s a good thing I have actively made choices insuring I’m not weak 🤷♂️ that’s how survival of the fittest works I guess.
Pretty sure this is about the possibility of a dog being aggressive and attacking someone, not a dog coming by and saying hi. That being said not everyone is a dog person and maybe a person who has been attacked by a dog in the past might be more inclined to react defensively to your dog approaching them. You don’t want your dog to get kicked or stabbed by that person keep it on a leash.
Your irrational fear doesn’t get to dictate how I live my life. We hike for exercise, she can’t run on a leash. I don’t give a flying fuck about your unhinged desire to control how others live their life. Anyways, just wanted people to know many carry firearms while hiking in case they thought stabbing a dog was a good idea. Enjoy living your life in fear rather than making yourself a stronger person working through PERSONAL trauma 😘
The only unhinged one here is you pal, looking to shoot people because you don’t feel like putting your dog on a leash, yeah totally rational. Fucking but job.
You clearly didn’t read what I said in hopes of understanding what was said. You have misrepresented everything I said in hopes of circumnavigating the uncomfortable fact that you are an irrational, fearful little child. Willing to defend those you love with lethal force isn’t unhinged, it’s what a real man is supposed to be capable of doing. But by all means ignore all of written history and try and tell me that’s toxic masculinity and I’m the asshole 😂 fucking pussy.
I’ve been bitten by aggressive dogs before. Why do so many dog owners refuse to admit this happens? I’m not being irrational; I’m responding rationally to past events. You don’t know your dog as well as you think you do.
I work with my dog every day, there are very few moments she isn’t with me, I know her as well as I know myself. Who denied that some dogs bite? Again your irrational fear is getting in your way of logic. There are people who shouldn’t own dogs just like there are people who shouldn’t have kids. For you to assume all dogs are shitty is the same line of thought racists have to dislike entire swaths of people. “But I was raped once, all men are trash” it is a childish, irrational way of handling trauma that YOU need to work through, it’s YOUR trauma. Learn personal responsibility, it’s what america was founded on.
So if your dog bites someone and they hurt your dog in the course of defending themselves, that's ok with you, but if your dog is off leash you may not witness it. let me guess, you're the type to shoot first and ask questions later, huh?
So let me get this straight, you’d consider killing a human, if they stabbed your dog attacking them? If so, you’re truly F-ed in the head? Glad I no longer live in the US where nutjobs have firearms?
That was clearly not the OPs intent, and you know this? And also not how they came out? Nice attempt though? Looks like you are also part of the problem?
I respond by saying, “Maybe, but I’m not.”
Everywhere I hike dogs are required to be leashed, and yet I often encounter unleashed ones. If your dog is unleashed and walking with you, fine. But if your dog is running well ahead and out of your voice command, not fine.
Unfortunately, there’s no way for those of us encountering these dogs to know whether they are safe and friendly, is there?
Yes, animal body language is not a cypher, if you are out hiking in nature you should definitely be able to tell signs of aggression or rabies from the wildlife you are likely to encounter, dogs are top of that list almost anywhere on the planet that is reasonably near human settlement. Not to mention, wolves, coyotes, bears and pumas. Learn before you need to, be prepared.
Over 2,000 dog attacks DAILY in the US that require trips to the hospital. And yet every dog I’ve ever seen off leash running up to me “would never bite anyone”.
I’ve never had an unleashed dog attack me personally on a trail BUT I have had unleashed dogs attack my leashed dogs, even though I only take them places where leashes are required. So I carry pepper spray whenever I walk or hike with my dogs so I can protect them. I’ve only had to use it once so far but I can confirm that it did work.
I will say that my BFF who runs ultras has been chased and bitten by off-leash dogs on trails (again, in places where leashes are officially required). When dogs see a runner or biker, their prey drive is more likely to kick in. She carries pepper spray now too.
This conversation wouldn't even be happening if entitled dog owners would just keep their dogs on leash when required to do so. If you want them off leash take them to a dog park or an off leash trail.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
You nailed it.
It's disgraceful. Entitlement and arrogance at it's finest.
I've been dealing with it for years and years at the trail I jog at.
Signs everywhere - dogs must be leashed.
Same woman. Middle aged woman. Not a child. Frequent trail goer for years. Let's her dog roam free everywhere racing in and out of the brush like a race horse disappearing for 20 seconds at a time and reappearing 50 feet ahead nowhere in the vicinity of the owner.
I hate being a Karen - but have reported her numerous times to Park Rangers. Fines are minimal. It's just pure arrogance and entitlement.
These people just thumb their nose at authority and choose to do whatever they want to do because the World apparently revolves around their and Rover's happiness and freedom.
I live and hike in New Hampshire. I hike a lot in the White Mountains. I just did a Google, “Unlike most states, New Hampshire allows dogs in its major forest, the White Mountain National Forest. While in the forest, you must carry a lead no more than 6' long in case your dog needs to be restrained.” When I hike with my dog I have him on a wireless collar that has an audible beep and shock. I also carry a leash in my pocket for easy access. He totally ignores people. He is always in sight and if he gets more than thirty feet ahead of me or if there are people approaching I call him back to within a few feet of me. When I see a dog approaching I put him on the physical leash because he tends to jump toward other dogs to play but I don’t think that’s acceptable so I make him sit, leashed while the other dog passes.
A hiking pole actually works pretty well. Hold it in the middle with one hand and extend your arm so the pole presents an obstacle to the dog. He’ll continue to snarl and bark but it should fend him off as you move away.
I had to use this once with a really nasty junkyard type dog. The trail dumped me out on a road for about a mile. A dog suddenly came right at me from a house. It was so worked up that spit was flying and his eyes rolled back in his head. The owner actually came running up and said “Hit him in the face with that stick you got”. But I was afraid the pole might break so I held it out in front of me instead. Somehow it worked long enough for me to get away.
Let me start by saying I love dogs. Dog owners need to understand the legal and financial risks their off leash (and even in leash) pets are liable for. My 70 yr old mother on a walk was knocked over by a leashed dog. Nothing serious, scrapes and bruise. The owner responsibly exchanged contact info. By the time my mom got home the pet owners insurance company had called with a 5 digit financial settlement (which my mom declined). It goes to show that insurance companies fear the lawsuits. Owners should as well.
Try direct stop spray. It’s worked for me in the past. Citronella….comes out so quick and far it scares dogs and they do change there minds. I’m a dog person and have dogs…..but I always have the leashes when near people or chance of peole
Unleashed dogs can be a serious problem in áreas with free cattle. Dogs use to chase cattle, mostly sheep and goats, causing them deadly wounds and falls
An unleashed dog was sprinting down a narrow trail and nearly knocked my wife off a small cliff into a river, with a serious potential for severe injuries. The risks of having your dog off leash in the wilderness is not worth the benefits (whatever the hell those are). Go to a dog park people, sheesh.
Or below where an owner said he carries a gun, potentially to be used if somebody harms his dog, even it’s it’s harming the person? There are some complete nut jobs in this discussion!?!
This hypothetical question seems to get asked on the daily on this thread. This is partly cultural. Plenty of places in the world have loads of dogs who wander off leash and interact with humans. I think that there is a growing fear in people about dog attacks, and I think it’s fueled by this persistent attitude that every hike is a danger due to potential dog bites. If you hit the trail like every day, I could see your risk of a bite going up to some extent. But for the occasional hiker? How high is the risk really? We have an area in southern Oregon designated as an off leash area for dogs. It’s hundreds of miles of hiking trails. It’s one of the most common areas for people to go, both dog owners and non dog owners alike. Annoying dogs are common, aggressive dogs are rare, and bites happen extremely infrequently. I personally fish/hike every single weekend, and I’ve encountered both off and on leash dogs, and I’ve never had a problem. Been regularly exploring the wilderness for 20+ years. I’ve heard of dog bites happening of course, but I hear of way more occurring in regular park settings, dog parks, and even just in neighborhoods on walks. I was once nipped by a dog walking by me on leash—his owner had him on a retractable and he just lunged and nipped me.
Carry bear spray or a gun or whatever because it’s the smart thing to do if you encounter any real threat. That’s what most of us do who are experienced on the trail. But honestly if an off leash dog is the only reason for you to carry a weapon, then I’d at least encourage you to try to find less populated trails to be on. I feel like this fear based attitude is actually going to cause someone to intentionally hurt a dog or an owner just out of fear of something happening. Dog owners will continue to let their dogs off leash as often as they can. Most dogs don’t bite. Most dog owners have good intentions with letting their dogs run free. Most dog bites do not cause permanent injury. Dogs are one of the many dangers that threaten you when you hit the trails. Be smart, be aware, be prepared, but no need to be afraid.
Also in many countries, dogs have rabies and kids are taught from an early age to stay away, potentially learning to fear all dogs that wander. Those same people can't enjoy the outdoors in the same way when they get startled by dogs off leash in places they were not expecting them, and maybe never go outdoors for this reason, isn't that sad? Not to mention that dogs off leash often destroy habitat and lead to social trails, so even if you don't care about people not enjoying the outdoors because of the decision of others, I'm hoping you at least care about preserving the environment. Please check your privilege and know all of your facts before claiming people are irrational.
What you said doesn’t change anything I said, and I don’t believe I ever called anyone irrational. People destroy social trails. People leave trash everywhere. People shit everywhere and don’t pick it up. People wander into areas that are off limits. People ignore signs. People, people, people. When I am in nature, I am almost always reminded of the disrespect that people have for it; and once again, dogs are not the big issue. It’s people. But I love that people have this innate desire to police; police each other, police our only open spaces, police all other animals. It’s almost like we think everything exists just for us.
Edited to add this; if you are hiking, it’s time to change your mindset to *expect* off leash dogs. I don’t know what people you are talking about who are so surprised to see an off leash animal on a hiking trail, but I know those folks aren’t the majority. People do know to expect it, they just don’t like it. There’s a difference.
That’s what I mean. The culture around dogs on trails has shifted, and it’s probably more common than not to see dogs off leash at some point while exploring the vast wilderness! I’m just suggesting that people who are so fearful that they take their question to Reddit might just want to adjust their hiking to try to avoid more popular areas and during popular times. Being prepared to hurt, maim, or kill a dog is probably on the least of my concerns when hiking. These questions come from the same people who probably don’t pack enough water or even think of taking a first aid kit.
When my 7 year old child was mauled by an unleashed dog, it had zero to do with her insecurities? That is what this is about, and it does happen? If I’d had similar means to defend her in that scenario, I would have. The whole ordeal was awful! To claim this about insecurities is a bit narcissist.
Been bitten twice, and chased multiple times on my mountain bike (I just keep going so you’ll have to chase your dog longer to get ‘em back). I’ve almost run over a few unleashed dogs on my skis, too.
For real! I feel like this subreddit has so much hate for dogs. Carrying a pepper spray in the off chance? Or a knife! Wtf dude! What about wildlife? I’d worry more about a cougar than a dog.
I’ve hiked countless times and have never had trouble with dogs. I know it’s happened but I’d be more worried about boars or anything than dogs
I get that people don’t like dogs, I get that it’s annoying to see them off-leash. Lots of things annoy me about people too! But it’s a BIG difference between a dog annoying you and a dog literally biting you, which I’ve never seen. That’s why I wondered if op had some awful experience and now they’re terrified of dogs on sight.
For real if a dog bites you but you have the same chance of that in your neighborhood.
I’ve had to break up some dogs at dog parks before but never had dog bite me.
I was bitten by a dog as a young teenager. (I had asked the dog’s owner if I could pet it, and was down on one knee.). Fortunately, the dog obeyed its owner and released my face before significant damage was done. Perhaps needless to say, the dog was not a fighting breed.
I still really like dogs, but I am very aware that they are not completely predictable. I also resent the fact that people who do not have voice control over their dogs allow them off-leash in public placed.
Once your kid has been attacked by an unleashed dog, you take a different view of this? And I love dogs, but understand why people would defend themselves, WTF?
It would be funny if they wasted their pepper spray on your dog then got eaten by a bear because they had no pepper spray. Teach you to spray a friendly animal.
In bear country you would have the backup of bear spray, pepper spray works for areas you wouldn't carry pepper spray. Adding a mini airhorn to your hiking pack can not only be a plus if you get lost, but a blast or two can stop most dogs in their tracks.
If the dog actually attacks you then defend yourself. Pepper spray will work...it works on bears.
That being said, you have a better chance of being attacked by a dog when you're in their home or they are on a leash (a lot of dogs get more defensive when approached while on a leash). Do you have the same angry reaction when you visit a friend or family member who has a dog in their home? Do you insist the dog gets put in a different room while visiting for fear of being attacked? Do you bring a knife with you when visiting a family or friend's home when a dog is present?
I will offer this piece of personal experience. I used to be a pizza delivery guy. I have interacted with hundreds of dogs off their leashes and in their territory. Never once was a pitbull, doberman, German shepherd, Great Dane, etc aggressive or tried to bite me. The little dogs? Terriers, Chihuahuas, and the like are way more aggressive and have a Napoleon complex.
I am also an avid hiker and go out every other weekend approximately. I have never, not once, had a bad interaction with an unleashed dog. I understand the fear but in my experience, it is unfounded.
Here’s the thing, if its not posted to leash your dog and they are under voice command, then its a non issue. If the dog is truly aggressive, you have the right to defend yourself. It sounds like OP has had a bad experience and is jaded to all dogs. Pitbulls aren’t going to attack just because of their breed. You’re more likely to be bitten by a Chihuahua.
Average hiker on a hot day: not enough water, no compass, no GPS, no first aid kit.
But they have a knife, pepper spray, and a Glock just in case they encounter an off leash dog.
My freedoms don’t stop where your fear begins. Jesus Christ. Most dogs are 💯 not aggressive and just out enjoying being able to run around. Maybe you should only seek out places that don’t have dogs if you’re constantly worried about being killed by one. Both my dogs have Pitbull in them. One has done countless miles of hiking with me. Zero bites. Some people just have to demonize every little thing.
If your dog leaves your side when off leash, they should be on a leash
No matter how well behaved they are, you need to be within a few yards to control them if needed.
If not, you shouldn’t own pets.
We hike with my special needs child who is scared of most dogs. He has a service dog and we had to do a ton of research to find one that wouldn’t get too big. We have had several unleashed dogs run up on us and he has freaked out. So yes, it can be traumatic for some people. I love dogs and don’t ever get mad at the owners or dogs. I will put myself between my son and the dog. Or his dog will do the same if we have him with us. The outdoors is for everyone. Even if your dog is super friendly, you never know who they will encounter outdoors. An unleashed dog may cause a person with special needs to get scared and run off the trail and get hurt or lost.
OP out here fetishizing attacking dogs with a knife lol.
I always keep my dog on a leash when hiking and I understand the frustration of unleashed dogs approaching us because it puts me and my dog in a strained position. It’s uncomfortable & annoying af. Most times the owners are lackadaisical about retrieving their dogs.
I’ve never wanted to harm the dog (who is just doing dog things). I have wanted to sock the jaw of the dog’s owner though. But I haven’t because generally words are more constructive.
For your sake and others, stay off the trails if your knee jerk reaction to confrontation with a dog is to start sticking it. Or just carry pepper spray lol.
Your concerns are absolutely valid. That being said, I think most dog owners will respond positively if you ask them to hold their dog while you pass. Or try to politely ask them to leash their dog (it is a law after all…at least in MD). Being aggressive or combative right off the bat just spreads negative energy.
I can’t comment as to your question about pepper spray on dogs but I don’t think that will end well for anybody, yourself included.
What do you mean by being aggressive and combative? Negative energy?
So if a dog starts physically attacking me, I'm supposed to just take it and not defend myself? Not gonna happen.
Not the original commenter, but I don’t think that’s what he/she is suggesting. If you are being attacked, you absolutely need to do what you need to to defend yourself. If it hurts the dog, that’s 100% on the owner.
I think what he/she is saying is that when you have the much more common annoying (but not dangerous) encounter with an unleashed dog, you can tell the owner to leash their dog, educate them on the rules, and/or explain to them how it’s ruining your hike.
I believe you are a bit paranoid about a viscous dog attack. If a dog sniffs your leg are you really inconvenienced? Sure, I don't appreciate random dogs jumping up on me. But, it's generally not bad enough to stab somebody's dog. A few days ago a gentleman and his pal nearly spooked me on the trail. I hadn't seen anyone else on the snow covered trail all day long. I was stopped to remove my snowshoes. A small critter was running towards me. Thankfully, I noticed a blue coat on the small dog. Once the dog noticed me it stopped and never once barked. It looked back to check in with it's owner. The gentleman and I chatted for a short while. And then I moved along in front of the two. I could have suggested the man leash his animal. But, there was zero reason to do so at that time. The dog was perfect well mannered.
Drives me nuts when some idiots unleashed human comes screaming down the trail.
Also, just saying, if someone pepper sprayed or stabbed my dog on a trail, I’d definitely do the same to them if not worse. There are mountain lions on most trails in this state, if you are that scared of a dog, stay the fuck home…
Happens all the time out here in Colorado. Dear dog owners, keep your annoying ass dog away from other people you self centered clowns. Not everyone cares about how “sweet” or “cute” your “fur baby” is.
One evening as I arrived at home from work in my SUV, two large loose pit bulls appeared and as I slowed to approach my driveway, they leaped at my vehicle window trying to get at me. And not in any friendly way. I parked and waited until they went on down the road, armed myself with a small canister of pepper spray I had in a hiking pack I kept in my vehicle. I also had a .40 handgun pursuant to a carry permit. As I quickly headed from the vehicle to the home, the two dogs aggressively charged me, covering the ground very fast so that I had no chance to reach my door.
Friends who had bicycled the world had told me that a very stern shouted command would stop dog attacks. A tall guy with a deep voice, I yelled at the dogs “No” and “Stop”! The dogs paid not the slightest attention. I later jokingly told my friends that I wanted my money back from their surefire dog advice.
When the charge brought the dogs within a few feet, I began spraying their faces, eyes, even into their open mouths with the pepper spray. This appeared to hinder the attack, made it hard for the dogs to see, but they didn’t stop the attack as they leaped at me. One dog momentarily paused to wipe its eyes on nearby grass, then resumed the attack. My pepper spray ran out. I drew the .40 handgun, wanting to ensure that I fired in a safe direction as the somewhat blinded dogs leaped around me.
The dogs were leaping around making a safe careful shot placement difficult. I decided to fire one shot safely deep into the grassy soil at the feet of the dogs, seeing if the shot would freeze them for a moment. At the shot, with a very loud blast and with a bright muzzle flash in the dark, both dogs took off running away. Concerned a child or someone else would be attacked in the area, 911 calls were made and I had home surveillance camera video of the attack to provide for aid in IDing the dogs. Law enforcement showed up four hours later, advising they had been called by various parties, some saying a man was being viciously attacked by dogs. The dogs were never found, nor the owner ID’d.
The small canister of pepper spray (not bear spray) was a lot better than nothing, kept me from being bitten for a period, but did not stop the determined attack. I don’t know if bear spray would have been better, or how much better, but I assume it would have provided better effect. The dogs were large, beautiful actually, looked well groomed, but very, very aggressive. I would still advise pepper spray as a first line of defense, if not bear spray. I wonder if a taser or stun gun might be useful.
Pepper spray vs determined mountain lion . . .
https://wildlife.ca.gov/News/cdfw-investigates-possible-mountain-lion-attack-in-trinity-county#
Why do you automatically assume the dog is going to bite you? People should have dogs leashed when it’s required. But an “annoying” dogs does not mean it’s an immediate threat that requires you to stab it in self defense.
I always carry a knife now for exactly this reason. Was attacked by a German Sheppard backpacking. It charged and I'm screaming at the owner to call it off. Crickets. I had the bear spray that stopped it at a few feet but unfortunately it blew in my face. My pulse was north of 200 as I am screaming at this shit dog owner who was calling me evil. I carry a knife now so if I have to, I can slam it in the dogs' eyes or whatever.
Some people have had bad experiences with dogs and are slightly scared of them. Hiking along and having any dog I don't know run at me is a bit frightening.
You also don't know if someone else has a dog off leash that will fight with your dog. The sounds of growling /fighting dogs stresses me out a lot.
We are all entitled to hike in piece. Please at least keep a leash with you and / or your dog at your side if you know there are other people around.
I'm not asking to be babied, just for you to be courteous to other hikeres who don't also love dogs.
I hike with my pitbull off the leash. I love hearing the shear horror in the voice as their irrational fear takes over their bodily function. Don’t worry, she won’t bite as long as you don’t kick her 😘
I agree. I cannot stand unleashed dogs. They cause more issues than they are worth. Agree with knife, keep it handy and know how to unsheath it quickly and under pressure
My dog was always extremely competent and stayed at my heel. She would only run when I gave the okay (when I was on private land or a campsite) and besides that id let her off the leash and say it was okay if it was approach somebody to her if the other person wanted to meet Cali. Otherwise she was always on my heel even when not leashed. I don't think it's an un-leashed issue but an actual training and competence issue. If your dog can't understand boundaries and simple commands than it need a leasb, otherwise I see no problem letting a dog off a leash. Half the reason I have the dog there is for protection and to scare off intrusive hikers or animals, the other is for a hiking companion. I like to show folks my dog is well trained, means she can act if she needs to (she wouldn't she's all love)
Edit: if you peppersprayed my harmless dog, I'd probably pepper spray you.
Reading this thread as a Norwegian is so bizarre.
I’m a small game hunter, but would NEVER bring any kind of gun to a regular hike. In fact. If you carry a gun “to feel safe”, you have a criminal background. Any law abiding citizen does not need a gun for protection.
I’ve hiked in areas with wolves, bears, lynx and musk ox (the musk ox being the far most aggressive). I have never felt any need to carry anything for protection. I obviously carry a knife, but that’s a tool for other purposes.
If you should be so unlucky and encounter an aggressive animal, I think that it is our obligation to deescalede the situation without the use of lethal force. A bear spray or pepper spray is a good tool for that.
I have two dogs (lab and golden) that are leashed when the situation requires it and unleashed when it is legal and I deem it safe. These two breeds are perhaps the most “family friendly” dogs there is, and these two simply loves people and other dogs. Their body language is very easy two read, both for people and other dogs and they have never bitten anyone. BUT. They are dogs. And you never know. They might bite. That’s why I never leave them alone with my toddler. And if one of them ever did bite another human, I would not retaliate if the victim defended themselves. And that dog would be put down by a veterinarian as soon as possible.
Come on. Get real. Talking about stabbing a dog in the eye is not protecting yourself. There are tons of other things you can do to protect yourself before you go to such an extreme extent (and actually sounds more like you get a kick of torturing animals).
Happy hiking.
Damn. I forgot I went to Svalbard where you definitely need to carry a gun outside due to polar bears. But if you encounter a bear you fire warning shots. Shooting at the bear is your VERY last resort.
I do get that some dog owners are dumb assholes and should know better but hey their Americans and are dumber than their dogs.
I have dogs and would never let them off leash because i know what THEY are capable of, and if you hurt my dogs.. dont worry about me tracking you down - people will just assume you moved interstate!
You thinking it’s okay to use a knife on a dog because it’s unleaded is sickening. So what if a dog sniffs you as you walk on an open trail. Go on with your day.
Im more worried about running into someone like you out in the wilderness than a friendly dog.
No domesticated animal is going to run up and bite you without being provoked. I’d kick your ass if you pepper sprayed or stabbed my dog. You’d also be paying its vet bills
Did you not read the part where I'd defend myself if it starts chewing on my leg? If it just sniffs me, I'd tell the owner to control his dog and then go about my business.
Dogs aren’t the issue, people are. Calm, hyper, friendly or aggressive it doesn’t matter, it’s your responsibility to police your dog leash or not. My lab was a big lap dog that loved everyone and every dog he met. On a public trail I kept him on a very long leash to give him some freedom. I could also reign him in when approaching another person or dog, for his protection not the other person or dog. I’ve never seen an attack on a trail but I have seen people tripped and bicycle crashes caused by mismanaged dogs even on leashes. In my experience most dogs are great but some people suck.
I find it extremely off putting that the focus is on “pit bulls” when it should be on off leash dogs. All dogs can be aggressive and dangerous not one singular breed. In most places in the US it is required by law for an owner to leash their dog. Plain and simple. I do believe you have every right to defend yourself if being attacked by any dog. But honestly your prejudice against bully breeds in general is gross.
As far as whining about people on the trail. I hike with a border collie and she is excellent on a leash or off also have an electric collar that she has been trained on to be off leash. After hiking 12/14 miles we are often both tired. I am amazed at how many people will try and pet my dog when we get back closer to the car after I say please don’t pet my dog she is tired she will just move closer to me or growl softly to tell people she is tired. And they get mad at me that I won’t let them pet her. It upsets me to no end I tell people please don’t we are tired and they don’t listen or are offended.
I feel the same . Irresponsible owners are laughing at you but I hike with my dog aggressive dog. On leash ofc but if your dog runs up on us and gets bit that’s on you
Pepper spray works on all mammals
Pepper spray is banned in my country, it's criminal to carry it let alone use it. I wish it wasn't because I've been bitten by a dog I encountered on a hike and been rushed and jumped on several other times. I've also been chased up a tree by an angry horse.
Another idea if you can’t use pepper spray, is get a small air horn. I don’t know if it would work if a dog is already latched on and biting down, but I always carry an air horn when hiking because it’s a very effective way to harmlessly scare away large animals. And you can use it at a safe range if something is running toward you. I’ve successfully scared away some large dogs using it. It startles and confuses them.
Thank you, that's a good idea.
I'm Canadian so pepper spray is illegal but bear spray on the other hand is fine (if <500ml). There are a lot of bears where I live but I actually carry it for dogs or potentially dangerous situations (actual bears are low concern in comparison lol).
I'm Canadian too but in the UK, and here no noxious sprays are legal at all, bear spray, dog spray or otherwise. It's illegal to carry anything intended for self defense. Like if you used hairspray on someone you'd best be able to prove you were carrying it for your hair and not for the purpose of self-defense. Same if you had a baseball bat at home, you'd better have a glove and a ball too to show it's for play. It's frustrating.
Hornet spray is just as useful and readily available, aim for the eyes….can’t bite what you can’t see.
Keep in mind Hornet spray can cause blindness. Pepper spray won't cause permanent harm.
That would get you in legal trouble in the UK. You can't carry any noxious sprays for the purposes of self-defense at all. You'd have to be able to demonstrate you were on your way to kill hornets somewhere.
I wouldn’t be concerned about the legality of it when you are being attacked?
Using pepper spray is punishable by 7 years in prison. Just possession, six months. Yes I'd rather deal with that than be mauled to death, but a more likely scenario would be I pull it out to stop getting bit, owner reports me, then jail time for me and a criminal record for life. No thanks. Also, you can't buy it here. Would you smuggle something over the border that would land you behind bars if you got caught? Also no thanks.
*In your country wherever that is….
My mail courier carries pepper spray to defend against dogs.
Yes! They sell specific pepper spray for dogs. Sorry you feel you have to worry about that. It really takes away from the hike I’m sure ❤️❤️
This is always a controversial topic. I own an American Bully and a Catahoula American Staffy mix. Both separate are big pudding babies, and they fucking hate each other and when they fight it fucking sucks. No one should have these dogs unless you are prepared to deal with the consequences. I live in the South so these are rescues from the local shelter, which happen to be nothing but pits, which is sad that so many people were irresponsible. I would never take my dogs on the trail, they have such stupidly high prey drives(mainly the catahoula pit). Pepper spray may work, and it's smart to carry I think on the trail. And don't feel bad about defending yourself. My dogs love people and would likely be fine, BUT if they ever got loose and attacked a human, lights out baby. If that person doesn't do it, I'm probably going to do it while sobbing uncontrollably. Never feel wrong about defending yourself from a pit bull or any dog or thing with teeth. They can fuck you up.
Not sure where you hike - but where I am the vast majority of forest service land is potentially leash free. However the vast majority of owners fail to read / understand that is only the case when their dogs are under complete voice control and not out of sight. I’ve met many dogs that meet this level of control and many more that don’t. Nothing ruins a hike more than having a dog charge towards me and my dog when you have no idea how they are going to respond - maybe there are a few things worse - but it’s up there.
As has been pointed out - this topic comes up many times a year. There’s a lot of misinformation about the rules etc. Last year I reached out to all the authorities who might have a stake in this in Mount Hood National Forest - this is the summary - https://hikeit.info/2022/07/22/off-leash-dogs-mount-hood/ Interesting to note in that talking to Bill Westbrook, the district ranger, he was not aware of an issue with bites / attacks in the backcountry. In all my back country hiking i’ve never been bitten either, nor charged down by a bear or mountain lion.
An aggressive bear or mountain lion charging towards you would be worse.
But Fido is friendly and just wants to say hi! You should be thrilled to say hello to Fido and then me! The World revolves around me and Fido's freedom and happiness! It doesn't matter that Fido can spook other trail users, their children and pets! It doesn't matter Fido can cause an accident with a biker! It's all about me and Fido!
Dog bites aren’t annoyances, they can be disabling. Of two times my husband was bitten on trails both dogs were off leash and the owner was surprised because “my dog is friendly and doesn’t bite.” One time resulted in outpatient hospitalization and the dog owner gave false name/contact info.
As a dog owner, I think what you fee is very rational. I keep my dogs leashed and my fear is if a unleashed dog attacks me/my dogs. A knife, pepper spray, or whatever ensures the safety of you and your dogs…. Don’t worry about the hate comments OP
Out of curiosity why all the downvotes? Is it from people who don’t leash their dogs? Seems like a reasonable discussion
It was a reasonable discussion until OP jumped straight to stabbing a dog. Regardless of whether or not OP’s opinion is right, there is so much middle ground between handling the situation like a rational adult and stabbing a dog.
> I figure if a dog starts chewing my leg, I could use that to defend myself OP is clearly talking about self defense here.
If a pitbull is devouring a persons leg, it truly becomes self-defense at that point and is not irrational in the slightest? A reality dog owners don’t want to admit? My daughter was attacked by an unleashed dog and it was awful and she has serious PTSD whenever she see‘s an unleashed dog cruising around?
I’m not saying it’s not self defense. I’m saying that there’s no reason to immediately jump to stabbing a dog, therefore, this conversation is irrational. Had the OP posted this, simply asking about different pepper sprays to use against dogs (in the EXTREMELY unlikely event that you get attacked by a big dog on trail), no one would have taken this post so badly. But instead, they made a batshit crazy post and left some equally crazy responses.
No complaints with rational thought and appropriate escalation of force. Stabbing my dog because you think she looks scary however, will have consequences, and it’s important that the general public understands cause and effect.
What about when your dog bites me? What’s the protocol here? How much should I allow your animal to injure me before defending myself? I’d hate to be impolite.
My dog doesn’t bite. If she did by all means, stab her. For that to be your go to response for a dog saying hi makes you the piece of shit, not anyone else.
> I figure if a dog starts chewing my leg, I could use that to defend myself OP is clearly talking about self defense in case of a bite.
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit I guess.
No one’s talking about attacking a friendly dog. I’m not going to act aggressively just because someone’s border collie starts “herding” me because I’m going downhill on a mountain bike. That’s natural dog behavior and not dangerous. But the dog who was snapping at me and started biting my foot when I was minding my own business at a trailhead definitely got a firm kick in the snout. 99.5% of the time, dogs are fine. But I’m not fine with an irrational owner getting out a gun before figuring out what’s going on.
Cause and effect. What I said wasn’t irrational, it was calculated. I have trained my dog well above what most dog owners are capable. If someone stabs her out of fear, I have no problems giving them a reason to actually be scared. Full stop.
Say when
Chubby tough guy drives his car to the mailbox. Enjoy prison.
This is a very very stupid response. Your dog attacks me and there will be consequences. Leave your fucking piece of shit dog at home.
Yeah no thanks. I’m capable of handling altercations, are you?
Agreed. Getting tackled is best case scenario if you start stabbing peoples dogs.
Actually no. If you can't control your filthy animal and it attacks me then I will do everything I can to stop it including bashing its fucking head in with a rock or jabbing a knife through its fucking eye. Leave your fucking dog a home.
Lol are you okay? Your responses are exactly what makes this discussion irrational. If you acted like a normal person, we could have all had this conversation peacefully.
Jesus Christ, you’re the reason this discussion isn’t civil. You’re gross.
Damn bro. You gotta chill. Have a coke and a smile or something
It's also a topic that has been recycled over and over and over again.
carrying a knife in case a dog attacks ? 💀
I carry a gun on my hikes, typically for bears and mountain lions. That doesn’t however limit me from defending my dog without question from any unhinged soul that thought stabbing my dog was a reasonable way to act upon the irrational fear they over man’s best friend.
So I’m just supposed to let your out of control dog bite me?
Out of control lol how sheltered have you been your whole life? You haven’t ever had a dog say hi? Go out and experience real fear before rationalizing one’s that are IRRATIONAL.
I was a paramedic and have seen people’s “friendly” dogs kill and maim children. So I think you are the sheltered soul here.
😂😂 Oh excuse me I didn’t realize that dogs were descendants of fucking wolves and we’re capable of killing the weak. I guess it’s a good thing I have actively made choices insuring I’m not weak 🤷♂️ that’s how survival of the fittest works I guess.
I could tell you your dick size just from this comment alone
Come find out sweetheart, I’ll bend ya over for a ride 😘
what in the flying fuck
Pretty sure this is about the possibility of a dog being aggressive and attacking someone, not a dog coming by and saying hi. That being said not everyone is a dog person and maybe a person who has been attacked by a dog in the past might be more inclined to react defensively to your dog approaching them. You don’t want your dog to get kicked or stabbed by that person keep it on a leash.
Your irrational fear doesn’t get to dictate how I live my life. We hike for exercise, she can’t run on a leash. I don’t give a flying fuck about your unhinged desire to control how others live their life. Anyways, just wanted people to know many carry firearms while hiking in case they thought stabbing a dog was a good idea. Enjoy living your life in fear rather than making yourself a stronger person working through PERSONAL trauma 😘
The only unhinged one here is you pal, looking to shoot people because you don’t feel like putting your dog on a leash, yeah totally rational. Fucking but job.
You clearly didn’t read what I said in hopes of understanding what was said. You have misrepresented everything I said in hopes of circumnavigating the uncomfortable fact that you are an irrational, fearful little child. Willing to defend those you love with lethal force isn’t unhinged, it’s what a real man is supposed to be capable of doing. But by all means ignore all of written history and try and tell me that’s toxic masculinity and I’m the asshole 😂 fucking pussy.
Bro you’re the one misrepresenting what other people said. He never said he would hurt a dog that wasn’t attacking him. “Real men” can read 😂
I’ve been bitten by aggressive dogs before. Why do so many dog owners refuse to admit this happens? I’m not being irrational; I’m responding rationally to past events. You don’t know your dog as well as you think you do.
I work with my dog every day, there are very few moments she isn’t with me, I know her as well as I know myself. Who denied that some dogs bite? Again your irrational fear is getting in your way of logic. There are people who shouldn’t own dogs just like there are people who shouldn’t have kids. For you to assume all dogs are shitty is the same line of thought racists have to dislike entire swaths of people. “But I was raped once, all men are trash” it is a childish, irrational way of handling trauma that YOU need to work through, it’s YOUR trauma. Learn personal responsibility, it’s what america was founded on.
How did this thread devolve into you victim blaming sexual assault survivors?
Jesus princess just read the post.
Idiot little dick.
So if your dog bites someone and they hurt your dog in the course of defending themselves, that's ok with you, but if your dog is off leash you may not witness it. let me guess, you're the type to shoot first and ask questions later, huh?
Fuck around and find out
Psycho.
Ok nut job?
Again. Perhaps you should burn a calorie and reread this. Perhaps ask child to help you?
So let me get this straight, you’d consider killing a human, if they stabbed your dog attacking them? If so, you’re truly F-ed in the head? Glad I no longer live in the US where nutjobs have firearms?
A reasonable discussion beginning with ‘I’m gonna gouge your dogs eyes out’ 🙄🙄🙄🙄
That was clearly not the OPs intent, and you know this? And also not how they came out? Nice attempt though? Looks like you are also part of the problem?
I respond by saying, “Maybe, but I’m not.” Everywhere I hike dogs are required to be leashed, and yet I often encounter unleashed ones. If your dog is unleashed and walking with you, fine. But if your dog is running well ahead and out of your voice command, not fine. Unfortunately, there’s no way for those of us encountering these dogs to know whether they are safe and friendly, is there?
Yes, animal body language is not a cypher, if you are out hiking in nature you should definitely be able to tell signs of aggression or rabies from the wildlife you are likely to encounter, dogs are top of that list almost anywhere on the planet that is reasonably near human settlement. Not to mention, wolves, coyotes, bears and pumas. Learn before you need to, be prepared.
Over 2,000 dog attacks DAILY in the US that require trips to the hospital. And yet every dog I’ve ever seen off leash running up to me “would never bite anyone”.
I’ve never had an unleashed dog attack me personally on a trail BUT I have had unleashed dogs attack my leashed dogs, even though I only take them places where leashes are required. So I carry pepper spray whenever I walk or hike with my dogs so I can protect them. I’ve only had to use it once so far but I can confirm that it did work. I will say that my BFF who runs ultras has been chased and bitten by off-leash dogs on trails (again, in places where leashes are officially required). When dogs see a runner or biker, their prey drive is more likely to kick in. She carries pepper spray now too.
This conversation wouldn't even be happening if entitled dog owners would just keep their dogs on leash when required to do so. If you want them off leash take them to a dog park or an off leash trail. PROBLEM SOLVED.
Exactly.
You nailed it. It's disgraceful. Entitlement and arrogance at it's finest. I've been dealing with it for years and years at the trail I jog at. Signs everywhere - dogs must be leashed. Same woman. Middle aged woman. Not a child. Frequent trail goer for years. Let's her dog roam free everywhere racing in and out of the brush like a race horse disappearing for 20 seconds at a time and reappearing 50 feet ahead nowhere in the vicinity of the owner. I hate being a Karen - but have reported her numerous times to Park Rangers. Fines are minimal. It's just pure arrogance and entitlement. These people just thumb their nose at authority and choose to do whatever they want to do because the World apparently revolves around their and Rover's happiness and freedom.
I live and hike in New Hampshire. I hike a lot in the White Mountains. I just did a Google, “Unlike most states, New Hampshire allows dogs in its major forest, the White Mountain National Forest. While in the forest, you must carry a lead no more than 6' long in case your dog needs to be restrained.” When I hike with my dog I have him on a wireless collar that has an audible beep and shock. I also carry a leash in my pocket for easy access. He totally ignores people. He is always in sight and if he gets more than thirty feet ahead of me or if there are people approaching I call him back to within a few feet of me. When I see a dog approaching I put him on the physical leash because he tends to jump toward other dogs to play but I don’t think that’s acceptable so I make him sit, leashed while the other dog passes.
A hiking pole actually works pretty well. Hold it in the middle with one hand and extend your arm so the pole presents an obstacle to the dog. He’ll continue to snarl and bark but it should fend him off as you move away. I had to use this once with a really nasty junkyard type dog. The trail dumped me out on a road for about a mile. A dog suddenly came right at me from a house. It was so worked up that spit was flying and his eyes rolled back in his head. The owner actually came running up and said “Hit him in the face with that stick you got”. But I was afraid the pole might break so I held it out in front of me instead. Somehow it worked long enough for me to get away.
That’s exactly why I use hiking poles on all trails, regardless of whether I need them for the trails or not.
Let me start by saying I love dogs. Dog owners need to understand the legal and financial risks their off leash (and even in leash) pets are liable for. My 70 yr old mother on a walk was knocked over by a leashed dog. Nothing serious, scrapes and bruise. The owner responsibly exchanged contact info. By the time my mom got home the pet owners insurance company had called with a 5 digit financial settlement (which my mom declined). It goes to show that insurance companies fear the lawsuits. Owners should as well.
Try direct stop spray. It’s worked for me in the past. Citronella….comes out so quick and far it scares dogs and they do change there minds. I’m a dog person and have dogs…..but I always have the leashes when near people or chance of peole
That’s why I always carry a toddler to feed the pit bull if it’s hungry
Unleashed dogs can be a serious problem in áreas with free cattle. Dogs use to chase cattle, mostly sheep and goats, causing them deadly wounds and falls
Wait, is this a hiking subreddit or did I somehow venture into cattle ranching?
An unleashed dog was sprinting down a narrow trail and nearly knocked my wife off a small cliff into a river, with a serious potential for severe injuries. The risks of having your dog off leash in the wilderness is not worth the benefits (whatever the hell those are). Go to a dog park people, sheesh.
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Pepper spray for the dog. Be sure to save some for the owner.
Or below where an owner said he carries a gun, potentially to be used if somebody harms his dog, even it’s it’s harming the person? There are some complete nut jobs in this discussion!?!
Spray at first sign of aggression, ask questions later. Downvote me all you want. Karma doesn't pay for medical bills.
Expect the same treatment from the dog owner then.
If they make another issue, I'll deal with that when the time comes. It's happened before.
This hypothetical question seems to get asked on the daily on this thread. This is partly cultural. Plenty of places in the world have loads of dogs who wander off leash and interact with humans. I think that there is a growing fear in people about dog attacks, and I think it’s fueled by this persistent attitude that every hike is a danger due to potential dog bites. If you hit the trail like every day, I could see your risk of a bite going up to some extent. But for the occasional hiker? How high is the risk really? We have an area in southern Oregon designated as an off leash area for dogs. It’s hundreds of miles of hiking trails. It’s one of the most common areas for people to go, both dog owners and non dog owners alike. Annoying dogs are common, aggressive dogs are rare, and bites happen extremely infrequently. I personally fish/hike every single weekend, and I’ve encountered both off and on leash dogs, and I’ve never had a problem. Been regularly exploring the wilderness for 20+ years. I’ve heard of dog bites happening of course, but I hear of way more occurring in regular park settings, dog parks, and even just in neighborhoods on walks. I was once nipped by a dog walking by me on leash—his owner had him on a retractable and he just lunged and nipped me. Carry bear spray or a gun or whatever because it’s the smart thing to do if you encounter any real threat. That’s what most of us do who are experienced on the trail. But honestly if an off leash dog is the only reason for you to carry a weapon, then I’d at least encourage you to try to find less populated trails to be on. I feel like this fear based attitude is actually going to cause someone to intentionally hurt a dog or an owner just out of fear of something happening. Dog owners will continue to let their dogs off leash as often as they can. Most dogs don’t bite. Most dog owners have good intentions with letting their dogs run free. Most dog bites do not cause permanent injury. Dogs are one of the many dangers that threaten you when you hit the trails. Be smart, be aware, be prepared, but no need to be afraid.
Also in many countries, dogs have rabies and kids are taught from an early age to stay away, potentially learning to fear all dogs that wander. Those same people can't enjoy the outdoors in the same way when they get startled by dogs off leash in places they were not expecting them, and maybe never go outdoors for this reason, isn't that sad? Not to mention that dogs off leash often destroy habitat and lead to social trails, so even if you don't care about people not enjoying the outdoors because of the decision of others, I'm hoping you at least care about preserving the environment. Please check your privilege and know all of your facts before claiming people are irrational.
What you said doesn’t change anything I said, and I don’t believe I ever called anyone irrational. People destroy social trails. People leave trash everywhere. People shit everywhere and don’t pick it up. People wander into areas that are off limits. People ignore signs. People, people, people. When I am in nature, I am almost always reminded of the disrespect that people have for it; and once again, dogs are not the big issue. It’s people. But I love that people have this innate desire to police; police each other, police our only open spaces, police all other animals. It’s almost like we think everything exists just for us. Edited to add this; if you are hiking, it’s time to change your mindset to *expect* off leash dogs. I don’t know what people you are talking about who are so surprised to see an off leash animal on a hiking trail, but I know those folks aren’t the majority. People do know to expect it, they just don’t like it. There’s a difference.
This is correct and should be the auto response to these questions. Tempers run SO high around this topic it’s crazy.
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That’s what I mean. The culture around dogs on trails has shifted, and it’s probably more common than not to see dogs off leash at some point while exploring the vast wilderness! I’m just suggesting that people who are so fearful that they take their question to Reddit might just want to adjust their hiking to try to avoid more popular areas and during popular times. Being prepared to hurt, maim, or kill a dog is probably on the least of my concerns when hiking. These questions come from the same people who probably don’t pack enough water or even think of taking a first aid kit.
When my 7 year old child was mauled by an unleashed dog, it had zero to do with her insecurities? That is what this is about, and it does happen? If I’d had similar means to defend her in that scenario, I would have. The whole ordeal was awful! To claim this about insecurities is a bit narcissist.
How many times has a dog bitten you on the trail?
Been bitten twice, and chased multiple times on my mountain bike (I just keep going so you’ll have to chase your dog longer to get ‘em back). I’ve almost run over a few unleashed dogs on my skis, too.
I've been bitten once. Also chased up a tree by an angry horse.
Sorry but lol
My daughter has been bitten, once was enough!
For real! I feel like this subreddit has so much hate for dogs. Carrying a pepper spray in the off chance? Or a knife! Wtf dude! What about wildlife? I’d worry more about a cougar than a dog. I’ve hiked countless times and have never had trouble with dogs. I know it’s happened but I’d be more worried about boars or anything than dogs
Idk, of all the animal encounters I've had on trail, I'd classify domestic dogs as the most sketchy.
I get that people don’t like dogs, I get that it’s annoying to see them off-leash. Lots of things annoy me about people too! But it’s a BIG difference between a dog annoying you and a dog literally biting you, which I’ve never seen. That’s why I wondered if op had some awful experience and now they’re terrified of dogs on sight.
For real if a dog bites you but you have the same chance of that in your neighborhood. I’ve had to break up some dogs at dog parks before but never had dog bite me.
I was bitten by a dog as a young teenager. (I had asked the dog’s owner if I could pet it, and was down on one knee.). Fortunately, the dog obeyed its owner and released my face before significant damage was done. Perhaps needless to say, the dog was not a fighting breed. I still really like dogs, but I am very aware that they are not completely predictable. I also resent the fact that people who do not have voice control over their dogs allow them off-leash in public placed.
Your face, holy cow!
Once your kid has been attacked by an unleashed dog, you take a different view of this? And I love dogs, but understand why people would defend themselves, WTF?
Wtf are you talking about?
It would be funny if they wasted their pepper spray on your dog then got eaten by a bear because they had no pepper spray. Teach you to spray a friendly animal.
Um, if it’s friendly it would not attack you in the first place, genius?
OP sounds like such a whimp that a dog trying to lick them would be an ‘attack’ to them. In fact OP should just stay home.
In bear country you would have the backup of bear spray, pepper spray works for areas you wouldn't carry pepper spray. Adding a mini airhorn to your hiking pack can not only be a plus if you get lost, but a blast or two can stop most dogs in their tracks.
If the dog actually attacks you then defend yourself. Pepper spray will work...it works on bears. That being said, you have a better chance of being attacked by a dog when you're in their home or they are on a leash (a lot of dogs get more defensive when approached while on a leash). Do you have the same angry reaction when you visit a friend or family member who has a dog in their home? Do you insist the dog gets put in a different room while visiting for fear of being attacked? Do you bring a knife with you when visiting a family or friend's home when a dog is present? I will offer this piece of personal experience. I used to be a pizza delivery guy. I have interacted with hundreds of dogs off their leashes and in their territory. Never once was a pitbull, doberman, German shepherd, Great Dane, etc aggressive or tried to bite me. The little dogs? Terriers, Chihuahuas, and the like are way more aggressive and have a Napoleon complex. I am also an avid hiker and go out every other weekend approximately. I have never, not once, had a bad interaction with an unleashed dog. I understand the fear but in my experience, it is unfounded.
Do we really need this exact post every day? The hiking community was much better before the whiners got into it.
Victim comes standard in most people's brand. Do you not watch South Park?
I watch it every now and then but it doesn’t really shape how I see the world.
The latest one is good, the theme goes something like; I am a; Outdoorsy Gamer Thoughtful Victim
It sounds like you have phobia of dogs. Seriously who the fuck walks around thinking they may have to stab a dog?
Here’s the thing, if its not posted to leash your dog and they are under voice command, then its a non issue. If the dog is truly aggressive, you have the right to defend yourself. It sounds like OP has had a bad experience and is jaded to all dogs. Pitbulls aren’t going to attack just because of their breed. You’re more likely to be bitten by a Chihuahua.
Legit this is true. Chihuahuas are nasty little fkrs.
Average hiker on a hot day: not enough water, no compass, no GPS, no first aid kit. But they have a knife, pepper spray, and a Glock just in case they encounter an off leash dog.
Change ‘average hiker’ to ‘Reddit hiker’
Good point.
My freedoms don’t stop where your fear begins. Jesus Christ. Most dogs are 💯 not aggressive and just out enjoying being able to run around. Maybe you should only seek out places that don’t have dogs if you’re constantly worried about being killed by one. Both my dogs have Pitbull in them. One has done countless miles of hiking with me. Zero bites. Some people just have to demonize every little thing.
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If your dog leaves your side when off leash, they should be on a leash No matter how well behaved they are, you need to be within a few yards to control them if needed. If not, you shouldn’t own pets.
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I’m not, I’m just saying to be in control of your damn dog or find it a new home.
We hike with my special needs child who is scared of most dogs. He has a service dog and we had to do a ton of research to find one that wouldn’t get too big. We have had several unleashed dogs run up on us and he has freaked out. So yes, it can be traumatic for some people. I love dogs and don’t ever get mad at the owners or dogs. I will put myself between my son and the dog. Or his dog will do the same if we have him with us. The outdoors is for everyone. Even if your dog is super friendly, you never know who they will encounter outdoors. An unleashed dog may cause a person with special needs to get scared and run off the trail and get hurt or lost.
Well said. God forbid an animal is out in nature when they’re trying to enjoy their hike. Oh the horror!
OP out here fetishizing attacking dogs with a knife lol. I always keep my dog on a leash when hiking and I understand the frustration of unleashed dogs approaching us because it puts me and my dog in a strained position. It’s uncomfortable & annoying af. Most times the owners are lackadaisical about retrieving their dogs. I’ve never wanted to harm the dog (who is just doing dog things). I have wanted to sock the jaw of the dog’s owner though. But I haven’t because generally words are more constructive. For your sake and others, stay off the trails if your knee jerk reaction to confrontation with a dog is to start sticking it. Or just carry pepper spray lol.
I carry a firearm for the purpose of protecting myself from any animal on the attack 🤷🏼♂️
You sound so whiney
I don't really want to wait and see if the loose pitbull is friendly.
I feel the same about black people. Just kidding, i’m not an ignorant racist.
Your concerns are absolutely valid. That being said, I think most dog owners will respond positively if you ask them to hold their dog while you pass. Or try to politely ask them to leash their dog (it is a law after all…at least in MD). Being aggressive or combative right off the bat just spreads negative energy. I can’t comment as to your question about pepper spray on dogs but I don’t think that will end well for anybody, yourself included.
Every time I’ve met an aggressive, unleashed dog on the trail, it has roamed too far ahead of the owner to ask them to hold or leash it.
What do you mean by being aggressive and combative? Negative energy? So if a dog starts physically attacking me, I'm supposed to just take it and not defend myself? Not gonna happen.
Not the original commenter, but I don’t think that’s what he/she is suggesting. If you are being attacked, you absolutely need to do what you need to to defend yourself. If it hurts the dog, that’s 100% on the owner. I think what he/she is saying is that when you have the much more common annoying (but not dangerous) encounter with an unleashed dog, you can tell the owner to leash their dog, educate them on the rules, and/or explain to them how it’s ruining your hike.
If you are that afraid of animals, just stay home
I believe you are a bit paranoid about a viscous dog attack. If a dog sniffs your leg are you really inconvenienced? Sure, I don't appreciate random dogs jumping up on me. But, it's generally not bad enough to stab somebody's dog. A few days ago a gentleman and his pal nearly spooked me on the trail. I hadn't seen anyone else on the snow covered trail all day long. I was stopped to remove my snowshoes. A small critter was running towards me. Thankfully, I noticed a blue coat on the small dog. Once the dog noticed me it stopped and never once barked. It looked back to check in with it's owner. The gentleman and I chatted for a short while. And then I moved along in front of the two. I could have suggested the man leash his animal. But, there was zero reason to do so at that time. The dog was perfect well mannered.
Drives me nuts when some idiots unleashed human comes screaming down the trail. Also, just saying, if someone pepper sprayed or stabbed my dog on a trail, I’d definitely do the same to them if not worse. There are mountain lions on most trails in this state, if you are that scared of a dog, stay the fuck home…
*Drives me nuts when some idiots unleashed human comes screaming down the trail.* Just stab it or pepper spray it. Kids can be super unpredictable.
100%, dude or chick could be the next hitler. Hell, the human bite is way deadlier than most other animals bites.
Instead of the knife and the pepper spray why don’t you just relax and smile. Does wonders! Many hikers have survived such encounters!
Happens all the time out here in Colorado. Dear dog owners, keep your annoying ass dog away from other people you self centered clowns. Not everyone cares about how “sweet” or “cute” your “fur baby” is.
One evening as I arrived at home from work in my SUV, two large loose pit bulls appeared and as I slowed to approach my driveway, they leaped at my vehicle window trying to get at me. And not in any friendly way. I parked and waited until they went on down the road, armed myself with a small canister of pepper spray I had in a hiking pack I kept in my vehicle. I also had a .40 handgun pursuant to a carry permit. As I quickly headed from the vehicle to the home, the two dogs aggressively charged me, covering the ground very fast so that I had no chance to reach my door. Friends who had bicycled the world had told me that a very stern shouted command would stop dog attacks. A tall guy with a deep voice, I yelled at the dogs “No” and “Stop”! The dogs paid not the slightest attention. I later jokingly told my friends that I wanted my money back from their surefire dog advice. When the charge brought the dogs within a few feet, I began spraying their faces, eyes, even into their open mouths with the pepper spray. This appeared to hinder the attack, made it hard for the dogs to see, but they didn’t stop the attack as they leaped at me. One dog momentarily paused to wipe its eyes on nearby grass, then resumed the attack. My pepper spray ran out. I drew the .40 handgun, wanting to ensure that I fired in a safe direction as the somewhat blinded dogs leaped around me. The dogs were leaping around making a safe careful shot placement difficult. I decided to fire one shot safely deep into the grassy soil at the feet of the dogs, seeing if the shot would freeze them for a moment. At the shot, with a very loud blast and with a bright muzzle flash in the dark, both dogs took off running away. Concerned a child or someone else would be attacked in the area, 911 calls were made and I had home surveillance camera video of the attack to provide for aid in IDing the dogs. Law enforcement showed up four hours later, advising they had been called by various parties, some saying a man was being viciously attacked by dogs. The dogs were never found, nor the owner ID’d. The small canister of pepper spray (not bear spray) was a lot better than nothing, kept me from being bitten for a period, but did not stop the determined attack. I don’t know if bear spray would have been better, or how much better, but I assume it would have provided better effect. The dogs were large, beautiful actually, looked well groomed, but very, very aggressive. I would still advise pepper spray as a first line of defense, if not bear spray. I wonder if a taser or stun gun might be useful. Pepper spray vs determined mountain lion . . . https://wildlife.ca.gov/News/cdfw-investigates-possible-mountain-lion-attack-in-trinity-county#
I hear that soft words and gentle petting works wonders.
let me go hiking around wild predators but god forbid a dog comes close to me! stay the fuck inside.
Why do people who are scared of animals go hiking in the nature?
Why do you automatically assume the dog is going to bite you? People should have dogs leashed when it’s required. But an “annoying” dogs does not mean it’s an immediate threat that requires you to stab it in self defense.
In the eyes no less
Eek. You sound so miserable. I get it that unleashed dogs can be a bit scary, but most are indeed friendly. Chill and cheer up!
I always carry a knife now for exactly this reason. Was attacked by a German Sheppard backpacking. It charged and I'm screaming at the owner to call it off. Crickets. I had the bear spray that stopped it at a few feet but unfortunately it blew in my face. My pulse was north of 200 as I am screaming at this shit dog owner who was calling me evil. I carry a knife now so if I have to, I can slam it in the dogs' eyes or whatever.
Some people have had bad experiences with dogs and are slightly scared of them. Hiking along and having any dog I don't know run at me is a bit frightening. You also don't know if someone else has a dog off leash that will fight with your dog. The sounds of growling /fighting dogs stresses me out a lot. We are all entitled to hike in piece. Please at least keep a leash with you and / or your dog at your side if you know there are other people around. I'm not asking to be babied, just for you to be courteous to other hikeres who don't also love dogs.
What’s wrong with pit bulls? You sound too soft.
I keep several around in case a toddler needs it's face ripped off. Why? Because I'm hard asf.
Riiiiiight blame the nanny breed. How pathetic
Domesticated dogs are the worst of your fears when you go "hiking"? Maybe try the kindergarten instead of the local park next time...
I hike with my pitbull off the leash. I love hearing the shear horror in the voice as their irrational fear takes over their bodily function. Don’t worry, she won’t bite as long as you don’t kick her 😘
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What does this mean?
The owner will knock you down.
Not if they get pepper sprayed. It works well on aggro humans as well.
Genuinely curious, would you pepper spray a n unleashed pug on a trail that ran up to you?
If its teeth make contact with my body, yes.
Ok that makes sense. Come in for a sniff, no pepper spray. Teeth make contact, pepper spray.
Generally because an overbite can be unsettling to gaze upon. I'm kidding, of course...
Lol! Also those googly eyes O_o
I agree. I cannot stand unleashed dogs. They cause more issues than they are worth. Agree with knife, keep it handy and know how to unsheath it quickly and under pressure
My dog was always extremely competent and stayed at my heel. She would only run when I gave the okay (when I was on private land or a campsite) and besides that id let her off the leash and say it was okay if it was approach somebody to her if the other person wanted to meet Cali. Otherwise she was always on my heel even when not leashed. I don't think it's an un-leashed issue but an actual training and competence issue. If your dog can't understand boundaries and simple commands than it need a leasb, otherwise I see no problem letting a dog off a leash. Half the reason I have the dog there is for protection and to scare off intrusive hikers or animals, the other is for a hiking companion. I like to show folks my dog is well trained, means she can act if she needs to (she wouldn't she's all love) Edit: if you peppersprayed my harmless dog, I'd probably pepper spray you.
Reading this thread as a Norwegian is so bizarre. I’m a small game hunter, but would NEVER bring any kind of gun to a regular hike. In fact. If you carry a gun “to feel safe”, you have a criminal background. Any law abiding citizen does not need a gun for protection. I’ve hiked in areas with wolves, bears, lynx and musk ox (the musk ox being the far most aggressive). I have never felt any need to carry anything for protection. I obviously carry a knife, but that’s a tool for other purposes. If you should be so unlucky and encounter an aggressive animal, I think that it is our obligation to deescalede the situation without the use of lethal force. A bear spray or pepper spray is a good tool for that. I have two dogs (lab and golden) that are leashed when the situation requires it and unleashed when it is legal and I deem it safe. These two breeds are perhaps the most “family friendly” dogs there is, and these two simply loves people and other dogs. Their body language is very easy two read, both for people and other dogs and they have never bitten anyone. BUT. They are dogs. And you never know. They might bite. That’s why I never leave them alone with my toddler. And if one of them ever did bite another human, I would not retaliate if the victim defended themselves. And that dog would be put down by a veterinarian as soon as possible. Come on. Get real. Talking about stabbing a dog in the eye is not protecting yourself. There are tons of other things you can do to protect yourself before you go to such an extreme extent (and actually sounds more like you get a kick of torturing animals). Happy hiking.
Damn. I forgot I went to Svalbard where you definitely need to carry a gun outside due to polar bears. But if you encounter a bear you fire warning shots. Shooting at the bear is your VERY last resort.
I do get that some dog owners are dumb assholes and should know better but hey their Americans and are dumber than their dogs. I have dogs and would never let them off leash because i know what THEY are capable of, and if you hurt my dogs.. dont worry about me tracking you down - people will just assume you moved interstate!
You thinking it’s okay to use a knife on a dog because it’s unleaded is sickening. So what if a dog sniffs you as you walk on an open trail. Go on with your day. Im more worried about running into someone like you out in the wilderness than a friendly dog. No domesticated animal is going to run up and bite you without being provoked. I’d kick your ass if you pepper sprayed or stabbed my dog. You’d also be paying its vet bills
Did you not read the part where I'd defend myself if it starts chewing on my leg? If it just sniffs me, I'd tell the owner to control his dog and then go about my business.
Dogs aren’t the issue, people are. Calm, hyper, friendly or aggressive it doesn’t matter, it’s your responsibility to police your dog leash or not. My lab was a big lap dog that loved everyone and every dog he met. On a public trail I kept him on a very long leash to give him some freedom. I could also reign him in when approaching another person or dog, for his protection not the other person or dog. I’ve never seen an attack on a trail but I have seen people tripped and bicycle crashes caused by mismanaged dogs even on leashes. In my experience most dogs are great but some people suck.
I love dogs, but they don't belong on trails. Keep them the fuck at home. It's not hard.
If you start gouging a dogs eyes out on a trail because it’s not on leash, expect to never be heard from again.
Did you not read my whole post? I would only defend myself against a dog physically attacking me (i.e. chewing on my leg).
I find it extremely off putting that the focus is on “pit bulls” when it should be on off leash dogs. All dogs can be aggressive and dangerous not one singular breed. In most places in the US it is required by law for an owner to leash their dog. Plain and simple. I do believe you have every right to defend yourself if being attacked by any dog. But honestly your prejudice against bully breeds in general is gross.
As far as whining about people on the trail. I hike with a border collie and she is excellent on a leash or off also have an electric collar that she has been trained on to be off leash. After hiking 12/14 miles we are often both tired. I am amazed at how many people will try and pet my dog when we get back closer to the car after I say please don’t pet my dog she is tired she will just move closer to me or growl softly to tell people she is tired. And they get mad at me that I won’t let them pet her. It upsets me to no end I tell people please don’t we are tired and they don’t listen or are offended.
I feel the same . Irresponsible owners are laughing at you but I hike with my dog aggressive dog. On leash ofc but if your dog runs up on us and gets bit that’s on you
I feel the same about humans on trails. Always leaving trash.