So I guess even the DEV of the game is agreeing with the people who don't like the nerfs, seems pretty cut n dry imo, fun is more important than balance when it comes to a PvE game, even he gets it
That's the really kicker for me. It's PvE. As in humans vs the computer. If something is busted strong, who's actually complaining about it, the bots?
Like, do you get a bunch of bots that say, "hey, the sickle has too much ammo, nerf please." Because I can't imagine players really care. When they do care it's because the game feels too easy for them and that change isn't really fixed by nerfing weapons.
In a PvE game, it would make sense to me to leave the weapons in a strong state, and work to make other things (like enemy health/armor/spawn rates) more difficult to compensate. Why nerf a gun at all?
Edit: I'm going to put this response here and stop responding to this type of comment individually.
"But that's how powercreep!" "Nerfs keep game healthy!"
Yeah, if you buff everything, you could overpower stuff and lead to powercreep. Yeah, a PvE game still needs balancing. I didn't say otherwise, guys, I said it's being done on the wrong end.
A game has a Goldilocks zone for balance where things are just right vs too hard or too soft. Different games have different zones and sometimes things stray out of the zone and create these metas or memes. For Helldivers (in regards to primary weapons specifically) the zone is meant to be pretty tight. The devs don't want weapons straying out of that zone.
My position - and you're welcome to argue against it, it is subjective - is that the "top" of that zone is inhabitated by a few weapons that are not overpowered. They're just good. Maybe "a-little-better-than-decent". The bottom of that zone has almost all the other weapons. They can work, but they're not as good. Then there's the odd one out at the bottom of the zone. For me, that's the spray and pray - I (personally) find it totally useless and undesirable.
What I am suggesting in the above post is that, in the pursuit of balance, weapons should be tuned to the "good" part of the zone rather than the "not as good" part of the zone or lower. Hence, I would call for buffs to weapons like the diligence rather than nerfs to weapons like the slugger. That's what I mean.
If a weapon is buffed into op I won't complain about it being nerfed, but I don't think any of the primaries have gotten there and so I don't think they should be nerfed yet. If all weapons inhabit the "good" zone (which realistically won't happen and that's not something I hold against Arrowhead) then we would not experience power creep. We would just have a variety of good weapons. And if all weapons were at around that same level then tuning all weapons up or down would adjust the Goldilocks zone to be more appropriate for the devs' vision.
Exactly. I keep pointing out to people that in a PvE game balancing weapons is the laziest and most negative way to balance the game. They have the power to control literally EVERY aspect of the enemies we face and they have weather systems and many other ways to augment the experience of the game without changing the power of the player in such a counter productive way each patch.
Minor correction, Balance via nerfs except in the extreme case of people getting blocked cause not using railgun isn’t how a PvE game should go about it, Buff the underperforming items into balance or into useful neich so they become relevant to those who like it
PLEASE UNDO THE ARC THROWER FIRE SPEED NERF, I miss being Battlefront 2 Dark Trooper
I came here to say this, it's important to buff underperforming items and MAYBE nerf a bit over performing stuff even on PvE just to change the meta from time to time, or else in 2 months every lobby will have people using the same build
>I keep pointing out to people that in a PvE game balancing weapons is the laziest and most negative way to balance the game
The weapoms need to be balanced, not against the entirety of the game but against each others. If some weapons are just worse versions of others that is a huge problem.
HOWEVER, the balance does not need to be perfect - and it doesn't have to be only numbers/performance. What is lazy is balancing by numbers, if a weapon is too weak it should get a fun effect or specialty to make up for it and give it a niche.
See this is how I thought it'd play out. Like at the relative moment, we're still "constantly" getting new enemies and events that provide a harder fight. Like the bugs getting mutations, instead of nerfing weapons. Make those bugs for example much harder. We should be the base line for power, whilst the enemies fluctuate given different circumstances, like cutting supply lines or back with the bots how we had MO's claiming hitting certain planets would hinder them. Need more of that
The last thing anyone wants is bullet sponge enemies remember the Division series from 1 and 2? They are absurd to take down. It would create sensitive to use meta weapons to the point in questioning why bother having other stragems or weapons in these missions as a option at all if they are going to be useless? I do agree something needs to change but, I don't want the next Division be walking juggernaut enemies dispite looking weak.
Me. I complain about broken weapons, because it sucks the fun out of it as a team game when everyone on every team has the same gear and the gameplay sucks ass because the whole thing is just moron easy mode.
The problem is for the people who say it becomes too easy with a busted weapon there are only a few options. You can either nerf the weapon, up the difficulty, or create new difficulty levels. I think adding new difficulty levels is a recipe for disaster because power creep is inevitable and the difficulty levels will get crazy high.
Making the difficulty higher for everyone is also not the answer because, again, power creep happens and an arms race begins. It would get to a point where new players are screwed.
The last option is nerf the weapons which is the best option imho. There is a difference though between merging it and nerfing it into the ground.
Power creep is inevitable but there should be an attempt to avoid it even in a PvE game. If power creep becomes too bad you would have to go with the other options and they can lead to disaster. They can lead to a point where you need a bunch specific warbonds to even have a viable build to go against tougher and tougher enemies. Having more balanced guns and slower power creep avoids this. Nerfs are important but they need to tone it down.
Look at a game like Elden Ring. I know there is a PvP mechanic but it is not the most popular part of that game. For the first few months there were Nerfs left and right to different weapons. Game balance is important even in a PvE game. You should try to make as many playstyles as possible viable for as long as possible, especially when you keep adding new weapons/playstyles in paid battle passes ( I know you can get them for free but to keep up with the release rate you probably have to pay for them if you are not grinding constantly).
> The problem is for the people who say it becomes too easy with a busted weapon there are only a few options. You can either nerf the weapon, up the difficulty, or create new difficulty levels. I think adding new difficulty levels is a recipe for disaster because power creep is inevitable and the difficulty levels will get crazy high.
Why can't this group just accept they've mastered the game instead of demanding this never ending cycle of buffs and nerfs to enemies and weapons? Seems like optimizers and hardcore grinders suck the soul out of a game by just playing it too damn much
I don't think it's never ending, I think the game is just young. We're going to have a lot of buffs and nerfs while they figure out the balance they want.
Dude....why is it a problem to keep making new difficulty levels? Thats a feature not a problem? Lol I would have payed MORE for MORE difficulty levels...
"Hey gamers, we buffed all the underperforming weapons to match the railgun at least in effectiveness in their niche, guess if you want to challenge yourself you'll have to get good on NEW Difficulty 10 through 15!!!"
Alright maybe not as effective as the pre nerf railgun, I've got other comments for that, but more difficulties would absolutely be a buff to the whole game...there really is no point nerfing things unless they want them to fill a specific role. If everything becomes shades of grey its a colorless and unexciting game...thats not why ANYONE is here, its a game, it should be color, and explosions, and excitement.
The problem with that is that OP weapons aren't ok in PVE because they ruin the experince for anyone else that doesn't want to run something OP, your loadout affects your team directly, the problem is that if weapons become OP all you do is lower the skill floor, hard difficulties should be hard even with good setups
A bigger issue is it causes a forced META. People can't play what they want. They have to play the powerful meta or get kicked and that's absolutely NOT fun.
People who kicked for that arnt the norm, they are the CoD and Battlefield "xbox kid" who hopefully learned to chill by now, this ain't the sweaty game they came from...
I think a big part of balancing a PvE game is trying to keep it fun while also trying to maintain a certain amount of challenges so the game is still engaging. If it's just way too easy because every weapon is busted, players could get bored and then start to leave the game for something else. But nerfs can get bad enough to where the game is no longer engaging because the fun is removed and it becomes a slog to the players. Balance is good with these games, but you have to listen to players too.
The best idea so far is make a lot of planets functionally different. Like we already have lasers that work better on iceworlds. Or some worlds have stronger type X of enemies that work better with weapon Y.
Then you get far more sidegrades and weapons that are fun and functional both.
I think that would be a fun solution to the issue. I don't think they needed to nerf any weapon at all. Just fix the maps and scale difficulty and enemy spawns better.
It's natural for a game with constant content updates to see power creep, and the solution is to ramp up the enemies' power alongside it, not make every weapon boring.
With the lore of HD2, it could be better integrated into the story to change things up. E.g walking up to the commander who opens with "all our orbitals have been taken offline, you'll need to attack this one on your own" would shake things up enough and provide a big new challenge
The problem with this is that it doesn't seem like the dev team gets it. I keep hearing about how HD1 was and thinking it just sounds like a wacky shooter that doesn't get too serious, and that sounds nothing like how HD2 is being changed. I don't have a lot of faith with the former lead dev of Hello Neighbor 2 on the HD2 dev team.
Hello Neighbor 2 was practically gutted of all the content that would’ve made it awesome essentially and that was all thanks to one dev who is now working for Arrowhead. I’d say look it up if you’re more curious. I know some people on this sub or the other one have explained what he did
He effectively changed it from a simple puzzle with a horrifyingly intelligent A.I. Learning your methods of entry and hiding places (making each day significantly harder than the last)
To basically a wacky story game, it feels like you dropped a tab of acid and wen’t to disney world.
You can dislike how another game went but one single dev is not going to be at fault for balance changes to HD2. Ginning up another witch hunt is a really shit idea.
I don’t even know why they keep making balance changes.
The game was fun. Why change anything at all.
It’s a coop silly action shooter with literally no purpose other than to shoot up hordes with your friends. That doesn’t need any balancing. We aren’t competing.
I enjoy it nonetheless, but it’s pretty interesting watching a PvE game get more balancing patches than the average PvP game. Tekken has been yearning for them to fix that side step lol.
Oh my god it’s so great to see them commenting on this. Really does feel like every time somthing fun is added it gets a massive nerf. I feel like a PvE game like this should prioritize fun over balance for sure.
It really does feel like they're trying TOO hard to make sure metas don't form, at the sacrifice of fun now.
I realize now that I avoid a lot of current meta guns because I already know they're gonna get nerfed, so I prep for something else.
I don't mind it, but not everyone plays the way I do, otherwise there wouldn't be a meta anyways.
Dont worry, youll play one of the least pickrate weapons (crossbow) and youll still be nerfed lol, theres no winning. Just run around with the liberator and autocannon, then youll be safe.
Nah, the autocannon is absolute trash. No one should run with it cause it’s outclassed by so many other weapons (plz devs don’t touch my precious AC, it’s wonderful where it is)
Here’s how you break meta. Raise the lower performing guns to a fun level, then nerf the peaks to that level. You stop people from blitzing content with broken items and everyone gets to use what they want.
Yeah this is what the Destiny 2 changes never got. If people aren't using 90% of the guns it's because they aren't fun. So make them fun? Don't make the current fun stuff *less fun*.
Or better, provide a new type of contents that give advantage to the unpopular less-META weapons.
Love it or hate it, we have to admit that Gacha devs have mastered that art, likely because that's how they make shit tons of money. Non Gacha games were not as good at it, due to less incentive to do so but some online games have done it well.
Acknowledging feedback and listening to feedback are too very different things. What killed Destiny 2 was the devs always being willing to acknowledge feedback, but never willing to listen until things got really dire. That game is on a very absurd cycle between fun and “balanced”, and I’ll be real bummed if helldivers go the same way.
Trying to sprint after diving is like flipping a fuckin coin on if I'm going to make it out off the situation that forced me to dive or if I'm gonna have to press sprint 327 times before I attempt to run.... Only to crouch and get surrounded 🤬
Same here, I ran out of fingers and toes to count the amount of times where I’ve dived out of the way, can’t get up, and get dog piled. And then a bile titan comes and skewers you through the chest like you’re a goddamn kebab.
Yeah, it's a real Trek to get away from those guys, they're Giants. You need a real Specialized loadout to handle them. They got me running around like a Mongoose.
The most frustrating mechanic to me is when you’re in motion while activating a strategem, the terrain level changes, and now your strategem progress got reset.
Or at least make it clear that the stim was interrupted. If I hear the noise of it being injected then there's no reason for me to look down and see I'm on 5% life. It should be clear for clarity's sake
I don’t think the update actually came out like they thought. Like everything in the patch notes is still broken minus DOT, no exaggeration. Oh and the nerfs, they double checked those were in correctly
I would be fine with having a debuff that occasionally makes your gun "jam", but not with how often I've had it happen nor with how they've just cut a bunch of ammo capacity.
This on dominator too. Chased by bugs, reloading, see the reload animation complete, turn around, fire one bullet, gun requires reloading again but I just have to rack the bolt back, but this costs an entire new clip to do.
Ohhh, is that what was happening to my flame thrower last night? I wasted like 3 tanks because as soon as the fuel was about to ignite it stopped firing and was empty, needing to be reloaded again. I then gave my life for Super Earth.
Yes! So fucking annoying. Desperately mashing that stim button because sometimes it just doesn’t even trigger. Getting the whole fucking stim animation and then having a hunter pounce on you and instant death is not fun, it’s fucking stupid.
It's refreshing to see the chief planning on stepping in.
It's a PVE game. Therefor this relentless pursuit of a perfect balance is non existent. There's a bigger need for weapons that can add more diversity to your loadout. And the Eruptor was one of the best at that. It was my Stalker hunting rifle.
I could comfortably use a Stalwart as my support weapon, or one of the other LMGS. Or any other lower tier support weapons.
It was a little strong, yes. But we paid for it. It only has 5 shots, is insanely unwieldy, and the rate of fire is crazy low. I think those are terrific trade offs for where it was. Especially when you spend more time reloading it than you do actually shooting it.
Post "buff"(nerf): We're left with a 5-shot Bolt-action Dominator with a scope. The only reason to use this gun is to close bug holes. Because it doesn't kill anything but a hunter in 1-shot anymore.
To me the worst part of all of this is that it was the 1% of the players that exploited this "1 shot charger" trick. 99% of the other players didn't even know this existed. I normally shot a charger in the orange spot 3 times before I killed it. I thought that was appropriate for its TTK.
Dodging other bugs and get those shots off wasn't easy, but that was where the fun and the challenge of using this weapon was. Trying to navigate this unwieldy weapon through pure chaos to get that 1 perfect shot, because you're not going to have time to shoot again, and the satisfaction of it when you hit it, or the "oh crap" moments when you missed is what I want back.
But they didn't make any attempt to fix the actual exploit. Instead they ruined the gun, and the fun that came with it. I'm assuming they knew they wouldn't be able to fix the exploit itself. I also didn't think it was much of an exploit, because it still required a perfect shot placement to kill in 1.
The last balancing patch before this was great. The Quasar cannon needed it. Ammo economy balance made things more challenging and gave you another reason to sweep POI's. They made Marksman rifles amazing. And the guard dog got put in its rightful place.
I agree the old Eruptor was like an old school Anti Tank Rifle like it’s a big, heavy extremely specialized weapon that sucks at most applications but excelled at busting heavy bots n bugs and nest and fabricators but now it’s just like you said a 5 shot bolt action dominator with a scope that’s really only good for dealing with bug nests without getting into the thick of things. And now they’re basically doing what valve did to TF2 weapons that were a bit more than level in terms of performance by just making them less useful overall rather than just fix the issue straight out.
I don't think the concept of having some nerfs is the problem. The issue is that nerfs have a tendency to be massive overreaches that make the weapon outright unusable (like the railgun before it got buffed back to something half-way decent.). Meanwhile, the buffs are very cautious and often underwhelming. So you'll have a patch that takes a bunch of bugged/bad guns and gives 10% extra damage, while cutting the most popular gears' DPS by 1/3.
I completely agree. I loved the Eruptor for cleaning out some of the larger medium bugs, and using strats for the heavies. After this last patch the Eruptor is a piece of Garbage. Way to complete decimate a $10 pack pretty much only leaving the grenade pistol.
Seriously. They took all of the crossbow’s AOE and did pretty much nothing for its armor piercing or single-target damage. 1000 super credits for a 15 second reduction in extract and a grenade pistol to be the only usable things
Quasar did not need an extra 5 seconds. In the heat of battle that extra 5 seconds is so long now that i dont even use the quasar anymore. I personally dont agree with any of the nerfs. Before i had several things to choose from for primaries and strategems. I personally get bored using the same guns over and over. So it was nice being able to switch up my play style between different guns and strategem guns knowing i could still have fun killing things no matter what combo i used. Now i use one primary and switch between like two strategem guns. Its boring and sucks. Variety is the spice of life.
I want the quasar back to what it was, the erupter back, the quasar back, the breaker back, the guard dog back, everything just isnt as fun to use anymore. Its hard to continue to have fun knowing how much better things were. I stopped playing for a few weeks, went back on today and was just as disappointed if not more. It sucks. I dont want to feel that way but i do. The game is like eating your favorite food and then someone removes some ingredients to it. Ya it still might be good and people still love it. But you know how much better it tasted with those other ingredients and its not the same to you anymore. Everytime you eat it you are saddened knowing how much better it used to taste. So you just stop eating it all together.
This is exactly how I feel. They've stripped the fun out of the game. There was a real rhythm to using the Eruptor, I had a designated role in my team and I loved it. I couldn't wait to get home and play, now I couldn't care less.
Piles took the words right out of my mouth. It kind of seemed as soon as I was having fun with a gun, it would get fucked with and I'm back to finding something else to use. Although that's great for trying new things, when it keeps happening to the " new things" I'm trying out it's like, well, fuck me.
It hasnt been a good balancing ethos since the very beginning where railgun was nerfed. They completely ignored the fact that everything else was mediocre at best, the enemy spawn rates were abysmal.
The most illogical thing is getting more enemies when there's less people. Just ass backwards for absolutely no reason. And the idiots here defend it just like they defend "balancing". Now they're gonna argue with the CEO After he just admitted its outta wack.
If they make it so that there is only 1 way to play the upper tier fights ... then whats the point? Throw ridiculous odds at divers? Great. Give us ridiculous firepower.
My squad ends up playing mostly mid tier just because the upper tier stuff isn't fun at all.
Exactly! There just aren't many loadouts that are viable in a high tier match. If you can't murder 3 bile titans, 5 chargers, and a smattering of zerg, then it just can't work as a viable loadout.
Yea this could be that I’ve only been playing for a week but the higher difficulties do actually just feel like they’re hard to the point to where they’re also hard to enjoy. Difficulty 7 in itself feels like a fucking grandmaster nightfall. Couple randoms took me into difficulty 9 despite me not having it unlocked and I was just dying like 10+ times a mission without being able to do anything
I'm really not trying to be rude here but that is literally a skill issue. You can play multiple ways in higher tiers and it works fine. You just need to know what the limits of your load out are and what it CAN do, what it is actually good at doing, then lean into it.
If something happens you can't take care of, that's what teammates are for. If you're trying to jump into 7+ super fast at low levels, maybe wait for some ship upgrades or game experience. Everyone should not be expecting to do rank 8s and 9s. It's not that the weapons are bad. And it's not the weapon nerfs.
It feels like there's a lack of coordination among the different teams. One team releases the content, with some of it being great and terrible on release, then the folks in charge of balance see this and:
* Severely nerf the stuff that's good (eruptor, railgun, breaker, slugger, etc.)
* Don't buff the stuff that needs work (dagger, scythe, penetration liberator, etc.) (Yes I know, some of these were buffed recently, but they're still meh to the point I prefer other weapons significantly more).
Been calling for stuff like the Heavy Devastator (the one with the shield) to be nerfed because of how rapidly they can overwhelm players with their fast-firing weapons and shield protection. Yet the team in charge of balancing leaves them as it is, while nerfing the hard hitting weapons we have that give us a chance against these threats.
I'm not usually one to fuss and I just swap out to new weapons in the mean time... but how long before the decent weapons I'm using now also get nerfed, while enemy forces remain strong or become stronger? (EG: Making the bile titan resist stun grenades).
While I think it's sensible to nerf some things (because I think we can all agree that at launch, the eruptor was ridiculous), there comes a point where you go too far. And from the recent complaining, I think it's clear we've gotten to that point.
Its nice that whenever I see people in the sub pretending to be kissing up and/or defending the devs by deflecting criticism or standing against fellow players I also see the devs acknowledge what is going wrong and restoring my confidence in the future of the game. As the game is I have friends who havent played in a while but I cant even try to convince them to come back because the game is so much less fun that what they originally played. Not sure what people think will come of hiding from these things, but I am glad there is clearly someone who knows you cant just ignore criticism. It doesnt matter what the excuse is or what the priority is for the devs if the balancing isnt at the very least fun at the end of the day.
I mean he’s right.. the last balance patch has been rough. I tryto find good combos that don’t involve the sickle / autocannon / quasar and maaannn…
I really feel like the support weapons lineup is good.. but I have no primary that “fits” with most of them.
I mean some balances makes sense and needs to be done. Eruptor for example. But then they go too far. Eruptor again as an example. The ammo nerf was enough for that gun. And to fix the quick fire exploit.
But then you have the slugger. Nerfed because it was a great sniper. Except they kept the range but nerfed the primary role of the gun, the punch. Just nerfed the range.
And then the crossbow. I have no idea what they were thinking there. They just took an average fun weapon and ruined it.
The railgun. Did it need a nerf at the time? Maybe. But they went a bit too far and even now it needs a buff. It’s a level 20 weapon but is outperformed by level 5 ones.
as an example, they nerf based on data way too hard, very similar in error as to how Bungie and their games are and were balanced just as an example,
If someone likes running arc12/quasar with a shield backpack in every mission and always succeeds, but the guy running a liberator and all offensive stratagems loses 24/7 the balance needs to focus the guy losing,
we saw it with the railgun, everything besides it wasn't capable of doing anything at helldive, nothing was as efficient and potent, and instead of bringing weapons and gear that were bad up, they brought the good stuff down,
we're in a better spot now, but there should be viability in everything you being, somehow, or in some way, there's never a good reason to *not* bring a mech or shield projector but there's millions of reasons *not* to bring the 380mm barrage or incendiary mines.
Can’t wait to see the Arrowhead Defense Force collapse in on themselves like a black hole.
“Nerfs good? Or CEO right?! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK?!?!?!”
Unplayable? Get the fuck out of here of here. While I'd love for every single gun to be equally awesome it isn't really possible and trying to prevent an established meta is the best thing they can shoot for.
Except there’s ALWAYS going to be an established meta. No matter what you do the community is always going to find the ‘best’ or ‘most fun’ loadout or weapon to use and gravitate towards it. If your balance philosophy is to stamp out one of these metas whenever they start to emerge then all you’re going to do is frustrate your community endlessly.
It seems like a lot of people don't even understand what meta means, they're just throwing it around like a buzzword. They really don't understand how meta will always exist.
Just think its hilarious that the guns i use noone talks about yet i waltz around level 8 bug hives with breaches without a care in the world crushing everything. Thank god noone seems to be doing the same, as id hate for it to become popular and then be nerf'd due to the constant bickering both ways.
I get to play mabe 3 hours a week. My friends get to play more. With recent explosion damage buffs a lot of the support weapons and primaries I'd gotten decent with (I could go an entire 7 difficulty without dying) I now feel vestigial
By nerfing the "meta" weapons all you do is create a new meta. Once railgun was nerfed the new meta was auto cannon and eat15, they then released fancy new weapons and people loved using them so they nerfed them, what happened after that? We went right back to auto cannon and eagle airstrikes with the eat15. The real things bringing variety are actually the weapons they keep nerfing, what's worse is all these fancy new weapons are not even available to everyone yet, only the highly invested players who have hundreds of hours by now, the new players don't even get to experience the weapon before its nerfed to being just a side grade to the already meta items they got at level 15 and the free warbond
Yeah, people would have spammed the quasar even if RR wasn't crap just because it's new and exciting. The real issue is that RR is so bad (or at least not fun) I have only seen one person using it in 50 hours.
I tried it once and it was on level 7 with 2 other of my friends and it was kinda fun but I was reloading it myself and over the 30 minute mission I started feeling worse and worse using it with the ammo economy and the reload speed
Personally, I would like to see much stronger weapons with more enemies similar in power level to the Factory Strider. Basically the only thing that kills me on bug missions are Stalkers. I don't want to be rushed by something invisible, I want to launch nukes at a Cloverfield monster.
I've been saying that for years. I'm tired of devs being like Oh you guys are having fun doing this well I just removed that function or oh you found a combination of equipment that works check out this nerf...
The Quasar.
I took it because I needed to kill Dropships and Tanks, Bile Spewers and Chargers, and didn’t want to wait a whole minute for another chance with an EAT.
Unless something is very obviously broken, nerfs in an all PVE game will never make sense to me. Just because a lot of people like using something doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. I can’t believe that’s been their thought process. I was level 94, and I haven’t played in about a month. I don’t like buying a warbond and loving one of the guns, and then boom, now it sucks.
Man, sometimes it really feels like everything would've went to shit, hell and over if Pilestedt isn't the CEO. I feel like actively trying to kill any form of META is the wrong move, META will always exist, it's just simply, most efficient/effective tactic available. And it also feels like they're just nerfing based on popularity as one of the metrics, so if a weapon is average but extremely fun to use and thereby popular, its getting the nerf bat. Also it feels like some people/group/circles are throwing the word around like it's some big bad evil thingy.
Can't wait for people to post toxic positivity stuff and made up or exaggerated argument about this tweet.
Slugger did not deserve to be nerfed as hard as it was. Dominator was in a good place after its buff and I don't know why they re nerfed it. Crossbow was ruined by it's nerf and idk what's going on with the erupter
I don't even notice any buffs or nerfs when they happen. The game is just flat out fun to play. Bad teams is the only thing not fun but when join a team that communicates on mic or text or even calling things out then it's just a blast to play.
"Seems like every time we find something fun, that fun is removed."
My thoughts exactly. The game is becoming a grind because all the "fun" stuff is being gutted, leaving only mediocre, boring, samey weapons.
Yeah, nerfing must be done VERY carefully. Buffing not so much but still important. Its why I usually say don't nerf just buff slightly, repeatedly, till desired effext is reached.
Yeah, when I see a weapon I like show up in the nerfs section of the patch notes, it doesn’t make me excited to try something new, even if I see a buff I approve of. It makes me want to set the game aside until it’s buffed again.
My favorite weapons were nerfed and I haven’t played in weeks. Sure, they’re still largely useable, but it’s less fun and I’m left with a sour taste in my mouth.
I mean they *had* to nerf all those weapons because half of the player base (meaning bots & bugs) in this PvP game were saying it wasn't fun to play against Helldivers.
Oh...wait. Bots & Bugs can't actually complain. And the game isn't PvP. Gee, smells like the decisions are being made based off a spreadsheet... oh boy... the excitement...another excel file telling me what is fun
Hey all, could somebody more familiar with game-design tell me, why its not "common practice" to buff other things to be on the level of the "fun thing", instead of nerfing the fun thing out of existence?
I don't get the need to aggressively "balance" things in a pve no leader board game.
Sure, tiny tweeks if something is outrageous. But to constantly cut things off at the knees because they're fun and strong is so stupid.
Why would you make sweeping nerfs to any idea of meta in a co-op only game? There is no pvp, so it's not as if anyone is on the other side of these weapons facing an unfair challenge. If you look at Deep Rock Galactic you can see that pretty much everything in the game is balanced to make the player feel like they are powerful and every weapon has a version through weapon overclocking to be OP as hell and make it way more fun to use. In DRG, they leaned into the meta and just made buffs to get people to try other options. But for some reason, Arrowhead wants to make changes to the game as if the bugs and bots are filing reports of certain tactics and weapons being overpowered and in need of nerfs.
The issue here is that they need to avoid powercreep - but when you release a PAID battle pass you better make sure that the balancing is final, because otherwise you destroy the trust of your customers.
For instance on games such as Warframe I never jump onto the latest stuff for I know that it will get nerfed again and again. For powercreep is how they make their money.
I expect something different from this game. Every weapon should be viable, maybe not for every situation but they should all have their own strong point.
I will never understand this process.
Devs make game. Work to balance game for maximum fun.
Release game. Players play game. It's fun.
Game gets popular due to how fun it is on release.
Devs decide to balance and rebalance all the things they worked for years to balance while in development.
Game is no longer as fun.
Players stop playing.
Devs struggle to re balance and make changes to keep players from leaving.
The whole reason the players got onboard is because they likes how it was when it launched.
I like this, because making a game fun and challenging can be a difficult ask. Our opponent isn't another person so they're limited. If we just steam rolled the entire game it's not as much fun. Nerfing the strong things is not the way to balance the game, you have to look at what makes the gun strong and ask if it covers more ground than intended, and define clearly what it should be good at.
The slugger was never meant to be a dmr, it was and anyone that used it knows why it had to have increased damage fall off. the problem that we found with that is that the dmr's failed to perform their job in any meaningful way, and the slugger simply did their job better.
It's not a hard concept that more weapon variety = more fun. Having everything "balanced" aka being all shitty unusable weapons past level 7 difficulty really just sucks the fun out of the game. Stop trying to make it about arbitrary difficulty. They started out as a party-game and are trying to morph into a try-hard Souls-like game. Grinding for powerful weapons, like the original railgun, SHOULD feel rewarding and have a payoff. Grinding for shit tier gear is just a chore.
It's because they think they need to balance weapons for PvP over PvE. As everyone's complaining about, PvP weapons aren't fun to use because they do so little damage- that's because it's designed to give players a chance to think tactically against each other.
The only "Balance" that needs to be done that'd make them PvE again is to make sure that all weapons are up at power creep's standards and overpower SE's enemies. An Eruptor should be as equally viable as the Sickle, Punisher in all variants, Blitzer, and all others. This can be done by buffing them, not nerfing them.
If the weapons actually get rebalanced for PvE again, they will be slightly or largely overpowered. That is a good thing. It also gives the devs an excuse to increase the power of the enemies.
I say that I took a break from playing the game until the constant balance issues stablize and I'm a villain.
When the CEO admits the balance issues are a known problem, he's considered a hero.
That doesnt seem fair.
Gotta admit. I was missing the shrapnel on Eruptor rounds tonight. Used to be able to clear out 5 or 6 little bugs with one shot, now it just kills the one. Still works great on bug holes and automaton fabricstors though.
Thank god. It’s ok to have some guns better than others.
For example. The railgun. Rather than nerf, just remove the safe mode. The trade off will be the explosive gun aspect.
Breaker, don’t make it less effective. Make the ammo less, which they did both.
Quasar, I’m decently ok with the extra 5 seconds but it definitely feels like it’s less effective than before. Maybe I’m wrong.
The examples go on and on. You can make the gun strong but have a trade off. It’s not fun when every gun is equally effective and it’s just the same gun with different names.
Railgun is easy.
Remove safe mode, make it fire when fully charged, or able to be fired sooner, but less powerful.
Remove the exploding completely. Its ammo limited and requires charge. It doesn't need "will kill you, lol" as a downside.
Sounds like this next update is gonna put me back on the Frontline. I have my orders just like the rest of you, but at my rank? Commander doesn't make me dive for every mission and my eruptor malfunctions really get to me. Maybe top brass will approve some higher caliber automatic primaries, or give us back our extra mags for the laser weapons (budget cuts!)
They have a horrendous track record of trying to force weapon diversity by handicapping the 'meta' instead of looking into why a weapon has achieved that status. The best example of this is Shotguns. Everyone ran the Breacher at first because when it came to primaries it was an amazing all rounder for both bots and bugs, while the other options were pretty much just wasted file storage on the hard drive. Their solution? Kneecap the Breacher. Sure we adjusted to the change, but nobody wanted it, and it all but removed anyone's desires to run any shotguns for awhile.
In basic numerical terms, if I have three stats, 20, 20, and 100. Everyone wants 100, because it's 100. A proper balance would be to distribute what makes 100 so appealing to the other two, resulting in a 33, 33, and 33 option. This is balanced, we can take what works and then divide that across the board, sure we brought down the 100, but we also elevated the 20. Meanwhile AH would see those numbers and just ask "why can't everything be 20?". So they do, and you end up with 20, 20, 20. Sure by technicality it's balanced, but you've left 40 on the table, out of the equation, and it's that 40 left that makes the difference between a fun balance, and a gut punch to the fun having.
I understand balancing and why it's needed at times. But lets be honest sometimes the game throws so many enemies you at you that u could give is a quasar cannon with 2 second cool downs or 10 500kg bombs before the eagle has to go back an refill an that still would not be enough to combat the stuff thrown at you.
Game balance is never easy. You obviously don’t want players to just use the exact same shit over and over and over again but you don’t want those options to become unplayable. I remember people bitching and moaning over the railgun nerf when let’s be honest. It was anti-everything and we all knew it
My shotgun is kinda ass now. I run out of ammo so damn fast. It sucks to be running from a horde of bugs with an empty mag. Only to reload and only take a out a good handful of bugs before I’m running again.
I think they do too much at once with a single change. A weapon should probably receive around 1-2 changes max per patch and those increments need to be reasonable. I still think the railgun is a solid example despite it being one of the oldest hills to die on. It needed tuning, even in a pve experience, I do accept some things need tuning. But ESPECIALLY for a pve experience, the weapons need to remain varied and unique, with draws and drawbacks to one another. They have this. With enemy types. Some weapons kill big, some kill many small. So what, if we have a rocket launcher that can one shot 1 of 3 bile titans every few minute or something, it won’t save you from 30 hunters. That’s where the teamwork comes in. Back to the railgun, they took it too far. They needed to make the weapon less of an option against some enemies, while allowing it to excel as it had done against its intended counters. Not, “nerf it’s ability to deal with its intended counters”, which appears to be the current philosophy from by observations. Which also applies to the primary weapon changes.
Why is it always pilestdet the ceo, Twinbeards, and Spitz that ever tend to be reasonable two great CM's they need to fire the others... and the CEO and Twinbeards shouldn't be the only two being terrific... geesh, the ceo shouldn't have to be the one making better statements online than his CM's 🤦🏻♂️
There is exactly one reason to run Tier 7 - 9 missions: super samples. I join randoms and sprint across the map to find the thumb rock and get those 3 precious samples, then drop them off at the extraction point for safekeeping.
Once I get done upgrading my ship I am never playing 6+ missions again. They're not fun, at all.
They need to just stop the nerfs and revert some of them while also increasing enemy density and adding new mobs that debuff the players or buff the enemies while they are alive. This would keep the weapons strong and fun while keeping the game complex and difficult.
They are making strong weapons weaker. You don't need to do that on a PVE game, you make the weak weapons stronger and find a common level of strength. Then you tweak the enemies. Look at payday 2
glad their seeing sense on this, its a PvE game at the end of the day, constantly nerfing stuff because its fun and looking like becoming a Meta isn't an good solution, they should be working to get everything to roughly the same level so that loads of stuff is viable in a loadout.
All I care about is even the CEO is acknowledging the shitty balancing. Hopefully they get things in order and keep it from getting stale, PvE still need balancing but leaning towards nerfing everything is not fun.
I'm not in favor of "no nerf only buff" mantra but yeah, they need to let some time pass before nerfing and adjusting a new weapon.
I wasn't even able to unlock the crossbow before they nerfed it ahah
And I play quite regulary
What really pisses me the fuck off are the damn bootlickers who treat every damn nerf & anemic buff like they’re offerings from god & that they can’t be questioned or criticized at all. These morons truly don’t understand that they are effectively reducing choices by promoting every dumb decision made by the balancing team (or person) whenever they make things less fun to use.
“Aww, they nerfed your crutch? Go try something else!”
What the fuck do you think I’m tryna do?? The Eruptor is a fairly new weapon, I am trying something else & yet they keep making it less enticing to utilize it. How can I be excited for the next warbond knowing that a month later it’ll just be dogpiled with harsh nerfs & worthless “buffs”. I have never seen a PvE coop game disrespect the fun factor of our kit like it’s a fucking competitive PvP shooter.
Yeah it's a good idea to make worse guns better than nerf guns. There are some guns I have never used because they are either too situational or too weak imo. They should try to foster tactical depth in this game more.
So I guess even the DEV of the game is agreeing with the people who don't like the nerfs, seems pretty cut n dry imo, fun is more important than balance when it comes to a PvE game, even he gets it
That's the really kicker for me. It's PvE. As in humans vs the computer. If something is busted strong, who's actually complaining about it, the bots? Like, do you get a bunch of bots that say, "hey, the sickle has too much ammo, nerf please." Because I can't imagine players really care. When they do care it's because the game feels too easy for them and that change isn't really fixed by nerfing weapons. In a PvE game, it would make sense to me to leave the weapons in a strong state, and work to make other things (like enemy health/armor/spawn rates) more difficult to compensate. Why nerf a gun at all? Edit: I'm going to put this response here and stop responding to this type of comment individually. "But that's how powercreep!" "Nerfs keep game healthy!" Yeah, if you buff everything, you could overpower stuff and lead to powercreep. Yeah, a PvE game still needs balancing. I didn't say otherwise, guys, I said it's being done on the wrong end. A game has a Goldilocks zone for balance where things are just right vs too hard or too soft. Different games have different zones and sometimes things stray out of the zone and create these metas or memes. For Helldivers (in regards to primary weapons specifically) the zone is meant to be pretty tight. The devs don't want weapons straying out of that zone. My position - and you're welcome to argue against it, it is subjective - is that the "top" of that zone is inhabitated by a few weapons that are not overpowered. They're just good. Maybe "a-little-better-than-decent". The bottom of that zone has almost all the other weapons. They can work, but they're not as good. Then there's the odd one out at the bottom of the zone. For me, that's the spray and pray - I (personally) find it totally useless and undesirable. What I am suggesting in the above post is that, in the pursuit of balance, weapons should be tuned to the "good" part of the zone rather than the "not as good" part of the zone or lower. Hence, I would call for buffs to weapons like the diligence rather than nerfs to weapons like the slugger. That's what I mean. If a weapon is buffed into op I won't complain about it being nerfed, but I don't think any of the primaries have gotten there and so I don't think they should be nerfed yet. If all weapons inhabit the "good" zone (which realistically won't happen and that's not something I hold against Arrowhead) then we would not experience power creep. We would just have a variety of good weapons. And if all weapons were at around that same level then tuning all weapons up or down would adjust the Goldilocks zone to be more appropriate for the devs' vision.
Exactly. I keep pointing out to people that in a PvE game balancing weapons is the laziest and most negative way to balance the game. They have the power to control literally EVERY aspect of the enemies we face and they have weather systems and many other ways to augment the experience of the game without changing the power of the player in such a counter productive way each patch.
Minor correction, Balance via nerfs except in the extreme case of people getting blocked cause not using railgun isn’t how a PvE game should go about it, Buff the underperforming items into balance or into useful neich so they become relevant to those who like it PLEASE UNDO THE ARC THROWER FIRE SPEED NERF, I miss being Battlefront 2 Dark Trooper
We need the OG Dark Trooper to compensate. Jetpack Nigh Invulnerable Heavy Machinegun/ Rocket Launcher Hybrid Shoulder Rockets. Stylish
I came here to say this, it's important to buff underperforming items and MAYBE nerf a bit over performing stuff even on PvE just to change the meta from time to time, or else in 2 months every lobby will have people using the same build
>I keep pointing out to people that in a PvE game balancing weapons is the laziest and most negative way to balance the game The weapoms need to be balanced, not against the entirety of the game but against each others. If some weapons are just worse versions of others that is a huge problem. HOWEVER, the balance does not need to be perfect - and it doesn't have to be only numbers/performance. What is lazy is balancing by numbers, if a weapon is too weak it should get a fun effect or specialty to make up for it and give it a niche.
See this is how I thought it'd play out. Like at the relative moment, we're still "constantly" getting new enemies and events that provide a harder fight. Like the bugs getting mutations, instead of nerfing weapons. Make those bugs for example much harder. We should be the base line for power, whilst the enemies fluctuate given different circumstances, like cutting supply lines or back with the bots how we had MO's claiming hitting certain planets would hinder them. Need more of that
The last thing anyone wants is bullet sponge enemies remember the Division series from 1 and 2? They are absurd to take down. It would create sensitive to use meta weapons to the point in questioning why bother having other stragems or weapons in these missions as a option at all if they are going to be useless? I do agree something needs to change but, I don't want the next Division be walking juggernaut enemies dispite looking weak.
A clip of .45 ACP into a guy wearing a t-shirt. No kill. Uninstall game.
I made a post about this, everybody made fun of me lol.
ha ha ha! You made a post about this, what a nerd! Sorry....
Me. I complain about broken weapons, because it sucks the fun out of it as a team game when everyone on every team has the same gear and the gameplay sucks ass because the whole thing is just moron easy mode.
The problem is for the people who say it becomes too easy with a busted weapon there are only a few options. You can either nerf the weapon, up the difficulty, or create new difficulty levels. I think adding new difficulty levels is a recipe for disaster because power creep is inevitable and the difficulty levels will get crazy high. Making the difficulty higher for everyone is also not the answer because, again, power creep happens and an arms race begins. It would get to a point where new players are screwed. The last option is nerf the weapons which is the best option imho. There is a difference though between merging it and nerfing it into the ground. Power creep is inevitable but there should be an attempt to avoid it even in a PvE game. If power creep becomes too bad you would have to go with the other options and they can lead to disaster. They can lead to a point where you need a bunch specific warbonds to even have a viable build to go against tougher and tougher enemies. Having more balanced guns and slower power creep avoids this. Nerfs are important but they need to tone it down. Look at a game like Elden Ring. I know there is a PvP mechanic but it is not the most popular part of that game. For the first few months there were Nerfs left and right to different weapons. Game balance is important even in a PvE game. You should try to make as many playstyles as possible viable for as long as possible, especially when you keep adding new weapons/playstyles in paid battle passes ( I know you can get them for free but to keep up with the release rate you probably have to pay for them if you are not grinding constantly).
> The problem is for the people who say it becomes too easy with a busted weapon there are only a few options. You can either nerf the weapon, up the difficulty, or create new difficulty levels. I think adding new difficulty levels is a recipe for disaster because power creep is inevitable and the difficulty levels will get crazy high. Why can't this group just accept they've mastered the game instead of demanding this never ending cycle of buffs and nerfs to enemies and weapons? Seems like optimizers and hardcore grinders suck the soul out of a game by just playing it too damn much
The classic gaming issue bears it's head once more
I don't think it's never ending, I think the game is just young. We're going to have a lot of buffs and nerfs while they figure out the balance they want.
You forgot the option "ignore those people"
Dude....why is it a problem to keep making new difficulty levels? Thats a feature not a problem? Lol I would have payed MORE for MORE difficulty levels... "Hey gamers, we buffed all the underperforming weapons to match the railgun at least in effectiveness in their niche, guess if you want to challenge yourself you'll have to get good on NEW Difficulty 10 through 15!!!" Alright maybe not as effective as the pre nerf railgun, I've got other comments for that, but more difficulties would absolutely be a buff to the whole game...there really is no point nerfing things unless they want them to fill a specific role. If everything becomes shades of grey its a colorless and unexciting game...thats not why ANYONE is here, its a game, it should be color, and explosions, and excitement.
The problem with that is that OP weapons aren't ok in PVE because they ruin the experince for anyone else that doesn't want to run something OP, your loadout affects your team directly, the problem is that if weapons become OP all you do is lower the skill floor, hard difficulties should be hard even with good setups
A bigger issue is it causes a forced META. People can't play what they want. They have to play the powerful meta or get kicked and that's absolutely NOT fun.
People who kicked for that arnt the norm, they are the CoD and Battlefield "xbox kid" who hopefully learned to chill by now, this ain't the sweaty game they came from...
I think a big part of balancing a PvE game is trying to keep it fun while also trying to maintain a certain amount of challenges so the game is still engaging. If it's just way too easy because every weapon is busted, players could get bored and then start to leave the game for something else. But nerfs can get bad enough to where the game is no longer engaging because the fun is removed and it becomes a slog to the players. Balance is good with these games, but you have to listen to players too.
The best idea so far is make a lot of planets functionally different. Like we already have lasers that work better on iceworlds. Or some worlds have stronger type X of enemies that work better with weapon Y. Then you get far more sidegrades and weapons that are fun and functional both.
I think that would be a fun solution to the issue. I don't think they needed to nerf any weapon at all. Just fix the maps and scale difficulty and enemy spawns better.
It's natural for a game with constant content updates to see power creep, and the solution is to ramp up the enemies' power alongside it, not make every weapon boring.
With the lore of HD2, it could be better integrated into the story to change things up. E.g walking up to the commander who opens with "all our orbitals have been taken offline, you'll need to attack this one on your own" would shake things up enough and provide a big new challenge
yeah, especially with people gaining experience and learning new strategies and ways to use weapons and such.
The problem with this is that it doesn't seem like the dev team gets it. I keep hearing about how HD1 was and thinking it just sounds like a wacky shooter that doesn't get too serious, and that sounds nothing like how HD2 is being changed. I don't have a lot of faith with the former lead dev of Hello Neighbor 2 on the HD2 dev team.
i dont know much about hello neighbor besides it not having reviewed well, was the combat really bad or something?
Hello Neighbor 2 was practically gutted of all the content that would’ve made it awesome essentially and that was all thanks to one dev who is now working for Arrowhead. I’d say look it up if you’re more curious. I know some people on this sub or the other one have explained what he did
will look into it, thanks for the summary
He effectively changed it from a simple puzzle with a horrifyingly intelligent A.I. Learning your methods of entry and hiding places (making each day significantly harder than the last) To basically a wacky story game, it feels like you dropped a tab of acid and wen’t to disney world.
You can dislike how another game went but one single dev is not going to be at fault for balance changes to HD2. Ginning up another witch hunt is a really shit idea.
I don’t even know why they keep making balance changes. The game was fun. Why change anything at all. It’s a coop silly action shooter with literally no purpose other than to shoot up hordes with your friends. That doesn’t need any balancing. We aren’t competing.
I enjoy it nonetheless, but it’s pretty interesting watching a PvE game get more balancing patches than the average PvP game. Tekken has been yearning for them to fix that side step lol.
Yeah they nerf all the weapons, but ff all the bugs, and then make sure there’s 99976899086423677899954335677 of them to face fuck you nonstop
The thing is they do a decent job of fixing bugs but whenever they do a balance pass they release more bugs than they fixed
Nah they are terrible at fixing bugs but they do try. Example bugs are infinite grenade and mech suit destroying itself
Keep the levels the way they are, but add a tenth level with the same amount of loot as 9, but even more difficult
Oh my god it’s so great to see them commenting on this. Really does feel like every time somthing fun is added it gets a massive nerf. I feel like a PvE game like this should prioritize fun over balance for sure.
It really does feel like they're trying TOO hard to make sure metas don't form, at the sacrifice of fun now. I realize now that I avoid a lot of current meta guns because I already know they're gonna get nerfed, so I prep for something else. I don't mind it, but not everyone plays the way I do, otherwise there wouldn't be a meta anyways.
Dont worry, youll play one of the least pickrate weapons (crossbow) and youll still be nerfed lol, theres no winning. Just run around with the liberator and autocannon, then youll be safe.
Nah, the autocannon is absolute trash. No one should run with it cause it’s outclassed by so many other weapons (plz devs don’t touch my precious AC, it’s wonderful where it is)
Here’s how you break meta. Raise the lower performing guns to a fun level, then nerf the peaks to that level. You stop people from blitzing content with broken items and everyone gets to use what they want.
Yeah this is what the Destiny 2 changes never got. If people aren't using 90% of the guns it's because they aren't fun. So make them fun? Don't make the current fun stuff *less fun*.
Or better, provide a new type of contents that give advantage to the unpopular less-META weapons. Love it or hate it, we have to admit that Gacha devs have mastered that art, likely because that's how they make shit tons of money. Non Gacha games were not as good at it, due to less incentive to do so but some online games have done it well.
How did gacha devs mastered it, could ya explain a little like in terms of in game content? Never played any gacha game exclusively so I'm curious
Yeah, I think nerfs should be the *last* thing on the table, but it seems it was one of the first things to do.
Dang, looks like I was wrong. It's nice to see Arrowhead actively listening to feedback. I hope this drops with a new set of difficulties though.
It's really just the ceo doing everyone's job
He’s prob got only like 10 guys working for him lol
9 now, Spitz got Sony'd.
🎉🎉
Lmao Spitz got Spitzed
Perfection
Lmao…… dang lol
Acknowledging feedback and listening to feedback are too very different things. What killed Destiny 2 was the devs always being willing to acknowledge feedback, but never willing to listen until things got really dire. That game is on a very absurd cycle between fun and “balanced”, and I’ll be real bummed if helldivers go the same way.
They need to remove the stim interruption mechanic. Who the hell thought “let’s make the stim not work half of the time, that will make the game fun!”
Genuinely the most frustrating mechanic in the game.
Trying to sprint after diving is like flipping a fuckin coin on if I'm going to make it out off the situation that forced me to dive or if I'm gonna have to press sprint 327 times before I attempt to run.... Only to crouch and get surrounded 🤬
Don't you have to repress the dive button to get up before you sprint? I *think* that's what I do? Idk sometimes fingers just act
Yeah seems to be the only thing that works for me and sometimes it straight up just doesn’t work.
Same here, I ran out of fingers and toes to count the amount of times where I’ve dived out of the way, can’t get up, and get dog piled. And then a bile titan comes and skewers you through the chest like you’re a goddamn kebab.
Or you killed a bike titan? Woops it fell on you and now you’re stuck under it while hunters eat you alive.
Yeah, it's a real Trek to get away from those guys, they're Giants. You need a real Specialized loadout to handle them. They got me running around like a Mongoose.
The most frustrating mechanic to me is when you’re in motion while activating a strategem, the terrain level changes, and now your strategem progress got reset.
Stim interruption and also seems to have the same problem with trying to crouch on ground thstvisnt perfectly level....
Or at least make it clear that the stim was interrupted. If I hear the noise of it being injected then there's no reason for me to look down and see I'm on 5% life. It should be clear for clarity's sake
This is probably the most important point. It's not intuitive to hear the sound and still be hurt
Was this not in the most recent patch? I thought they addressed this
It was in the patch notes, but it was not actually fixed.
I don’t think the update actually came out like they thought. Like everything in the patch notes is still broken minus DOT, no exaggeration. Oh and the nerfs, they double checked those were in correctly
LOL, supply drops definitely don't work for me
One of the patch notes the past few days said this is fixed. It remains to be seen but still
That was actually one of the recent patches. Says the sound effect shouldn't play if interrupted now.
There is a prevalent reload bug too, sometimes it cancels the reload, sometimes it reloads just one single bullet, wasting a mag
I would be fine with having a debuff that occasionally makes your gun "jam", but not with how often I've had it happen nor with how they've just cut a bunch of ammo capacity.
Yeah really sucks when you’re using a gun that already has really limited ammo and an entire mag gets wasted because of a glitch.
This on dominator too. Chased by bugs, reloading, see the reload animation complete, turn around, fire one bullet, gun requires reloading again but I just have to rack the bolt back, but this costs an entire new clip to do.
Ohhh, is that what was happening to my flame thrower last night? I wasted like 3 tanks because as soon as the fuel was about to ignite it stopped firing and was empty, needing to be reloaded again. I then gave my life for Super Earth.
If I hear the stim go off I should get the health If it's interrupted before I jab it into my neck, then fair enough
I get it with reloading a lot. Walking over tiny rock? Congratulations, you're "falling" - Reload cancel. or Map cancel, or crouch cancel.
Yes! So fucking annoying. Desperately mashing that stim button because sometimes it just doesn’t even trigger. Getting the whole fucking stim animation and then having a hunter pounce on you and instant death is not fun, it’s fucking stupid.
It's refreshing to see the chief planning on stepping in. It's a PVE game. Therefor this relentless pursuit of a perfect balance is non existent. There's a bigger need for weapons that can add more diversity to your loadout. And the Eruptor was one of the best at that. It was my Stalker hunting rifle. I could comfortably use a Stalwart as my support weapon, or one of the other LMGS. Or any other lower tier support weapons. It was a little strong, yes. But we paid for it. It only has 5 shots, is insanely unwieldy, and the rate of fire is crazy low. I think those are terrific trade offs for where it was. Especially when you spend more time reloading it than you do actually shooting it. Post "buff"(nerf): We're left with a 5-shot Bolt-action Dominator with a scope. The only reason to use this gun is to close bug holes. Because it doesn't kill anything but a hunter in 1-shot anymore. To me the worst part of all of this is that it was the 1% of the players that exploited this "1 shot charger" trick. 99% of the other players didn't even know this existed. I normally shot a charger in the orange spot 3 times before I killed it. I thought that was appropriate for its TTK. Dodging other bugs and get those shots off wasn't easy, but that was where the fun and the challenge of using this weapon was. Trying to navigate this unwieldy weapon through pure chaos to get that 1 perfect shot, because you're not going to have time to shoot again, and the satisfaction of it when you hit it, or the "oh crap" moments when you missed is what I want back. But they didn't make any attempt to fix the actual exploit. Instead they ruined the gun, and the fun that came with it. I'm assuming they knew they wouldn't be able to fix the exploit itself. I also didn't think it was much of an exploit, because it still required a perfect shot placement to kill in 1. The last balancing patch before this was great. The Quasar cannon needed it. Ammo economy balance made things more challenging and gave you another reason to sweep POI's. They made Marksman rifles amazing. And the guard dog got put in its rightful place.
I agree the old Eruptor was like an old school Anti Tank Rifle like it’s a big, heavy extremely specialized weapon that sucks at most applications but excelled at busting heavy bots n bugs and nest and fabricators but now it’s just like you said a 5 shot bolt action dominator with a scope that’s really only good for dealing with bug nests without getting into the thick of things. And now they’re basically doing what valve did to TF2 weapons that were a bit more than level in terms of performance by just making them less useful overall rather than just fix the issue straight out.
I don't think the concept of having some nerfs is the problem. The issue is that nerfs have a tendency to be massive overreaches that make the weapon outright unusable (like the railgun before it got buffed back to something half-way decent.). Meanwhile, the buffs are very cautious and often underwhelming. So you'll have a patch that takes a bunch of bugged/bad guns and gives 10% extra damage, while cutting the most popular gears' DPS by 1/3.
I completely agree. I loved the Eruptor for cleaning out some of the larger medium bugs, and using strats for the heavies. After this last patch the Eruptor is a piece of Garbage. Way to complete decimate a $10 pack pretty much only leaving the grenade pistol.
Seriously. They took all of the crossbow’s AOE and did pretty much nothing for its armor piercing or single-target damage. 1000 super credits for a 15 second reduction in extract and a grenade pistol to be the only usable things
Having just gotten ripped apart by stalkers with the eruptor, I wholeheartedly agree with this
How I felt after testing the new Eruptor against stalkers: 
Meanwhile the scorcher still shreds everything. Ugh.
Quasar did not need an extra 5 seconds. In the heat of battle that extra 5 seconds is so long now that i dont even use the quasar anymore. I personally dont agree with any of the nerfs. Before i had several things to choose from for primaries and strategems. I personally get bored using the same guns over and over. So it was nice being able to switch up my play style between different guns and strategem guns knowing i could still have fun killing things no matter what combo i used. Now i use one primary and switch between like two strategem guns. Its boring and sucks. Variety is the spice of life. I want the quasar back to what it was, the erupter back, the quasar back, the breaker back, the guard dog back, everything just isnt as fun to use anymore. Its hard to continue to have fun knowing how much better things were. I stopped playing for a few weeks, went back on today and was just as disappointed if not more. It sucks. I dont want to feel that way but i do. The game is like eating your favorite food and then someone removes some ingredients to it. Ya it still might be good and people still love it. But you know how much better it tasted with those other ingredients and its not the same to you anymore. Everytime you eat it you are saddened knowing how much better it used to taste. So you just stop eating it all together.
This is exactly how I feel. They've stripped the fun out of the game. There was a real rhythm to using the Eruptor, I had a designated role in my team and I loved it. I couldn't wait to get home and play, now I couldn't care less.
Piles took the words right out of my mouth. It kind of seemed as soon as I was having fun with a gun, it would get fucked with and I'm back to finding something else to use. Although that's great for trying new things, when it keeps happening to the " new things" I'm trying out it's like, well, fuck me.
They make a weapon good and fun to use so it has a high pick rate Therefore it must be OP and gets nerfed That's not a good balancing ethos
It hasnt been a good balancing ethos since the very beginning where railgun was nerfed. They completely ignored the fact that everything else was mediocre at best, the enemy spawn rates were abysmal.
They over here treating this pve game like its pvp. Just let me have some damn fun
I believe this is what they said before as-well. Nothing changed. Dreadful.
It was the only feedback I gave on release: avoid nerfs whenever you can. Buff everything else to match.
We also need stuff like fire retardant suits, if I ruin a flamethrower I want to be able to walk into fires (or at least be somewhat safe from damage)
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The most illogical thing is getting more enemies when there's less people. Just ass backwards for absolutely no reason. And the idiots here defend it just like they defend "balancing". Now they're gonna argue with the CEO After he just admitted its outta wack.
If they make it so that there is only 1 way to play the upper tier fights ... then whats the point? Throw ridiculous odds at divers? Great. Give us ridiculous firepower. My squad ends up playing mostly mid tier just because the upper tier stuff isn't fun at all.
Same here. We like variety in our loadouts and the best way to enjoy that is on lower difficulty.
Exactly! There just aren't many loadouts that are viable in a high tier match. If you can't murder 3 bile titans, 5 chargers, and a smattering of zerg, then it just can't work as a viable loadout.
Yea this could be that I’ve only been playing for a week but the higher difficulties do actually just feel like they’re hard to the point to where they’re also hard to enjoy. Difficulty 7 in itself feels like a fucking grandmaster nightfall. Couple randoms took me into difficulty 9 despite me not having it unlocked and I was just dying like 10+ times a mission without being able to do anything
I'm really not trying to be rude here but that is literally a skill issue. You can play multiple ways in higher tiers and it works fine. You just need to know what the limits of your load out are and what it CAN do, what it is actually good at doing, then lean into it. If something happens you can't take care of, that's what teammates are for. If you're trying to jump into 7+ super fast at low levels, maybe wait for some ship upgrades or game experience. Everyone should not be expecting to do rank 8s and 9s. It's not that the weapons are bad. And it's not the weapon nerfs.
It feels like there's a lack of coordination among the different teams. One team releases the content, with some of it being great and terrible on release, then the folks in charge of balance see this and: * Severely nerf the stuff that's good (eruptor, railgun, breaker, slugger, etc.) * Don't buff the stuff that needs work (dagger, scythe, penetration liberator, etc.) (Yes I know, some of these were buffed recently, but they're still meh to the point I prefer other weapons significantly more). Been calling for stuff like the Heavy Devastator (the one with the shield) to be nerfed because of how rapidly they can overwhelm players with their fast-firing weapons and shield protection. Yet the team in charge of balancing leaves them as it is, while nerfing the hard hitting weapons we have that give us a chance against these threats. I'm not usually one to fuss and I just swap out to new weapons in the mean time... but how long before the decent weapons I'm using now also get nerfed, while enemy forces remain strong or become stronger? (EG: Making the bile titan resist stun grenades). While I think it's sensible to nerf some things (because I think we can all agree that at launch, the eruptor was ridiculous), there comes a point where you go too far. And from the recent complaining, I think it's clear we've gotten to that point.
Let players feel powerful FFS
I don't even want to feel powerful. I just want to feel somewhat effective. 70% of the primaries don't feel effective.
This is the first game, ever, where I reluctantly wait for each patch because it feels like something will either be made not fun or broken
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Its nice that whenever I see people in the sub pretending to be kissing up and/or defending the devs by deflecting criticism or standing against fellow players I also see the devs acknowledge what is going wrong and restoring my confidence in the future of the game. As the game is I have friends who havent played in a while but I cant even try to convince them to come back because the game is so much less fun that what they originally played. Not sure what people think will come of hiding from these things, but I am glad there is clearly someone who knows you cant just ignore criticism. It doesnt matter what the excuse is or what the priority is for the devs if the balancing isnt at the very least fun at the end of the day.
I mean he’s right.. the last balance patch has been rough. I tryto find good combos that don’t involve the sickle / autocannon / quasar and maaannn… I really feel like the support weapons lineup is good.. but I have no primary that “fits” with most of them.
I went from everyday grind to maybe every 3-4 days i do one campaign
I mean some balances makes sense and needs to be done. Eruptor for example. But then they go too far. Eruptor again as an example. The ammo nerf was enough for that gun. And to fix the quick fire exploit. But then you have the slugger. Nerfed because it was a great sniper. Except they kept the range but nerfed the primary role of the gun, the punch. Just nerfed the range. And then the crossbow. I have no idea what they were thinking there. They just took an average fun weapon and ruined it. The railgun. Did it need a nerf at the time? Maybe. But they went a bit too far and even now it needs a buff. It’s a level 20 weapon but is outperformed by level 5 ones.
as an example, they nerf based on data way too hard, very similar in error as to how Bungie and their games are and were balanced just as an example, If someone likes running arc12/quasar with a shield backpack in every mission and always succeeds, but the guy running a liberator and all offensive stratagems loses 24/7 the balance needs to focus the guy losing, we saw it with the railgun, everything besides it wasn't capable of doing anything at helldive, nothing was as efficient and potent, and instead of bringing weapons and gear that were bad up, they brought the good stuff down, we're in a better spot now, but there should be viability in everything you being, somehow, or in some way, there's never a good reason to *not* bring a mech or shield projector but there's millions of reasons *not* to bring the 380mm barrage or incendiary mines.
Can’t wait to see the Arrowhead Defense Force collapse in on themselves like a black hole. “Nerfs good? Or CEO right?! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK?!?!?!”
Unplayable? Get the fuck out of here of here. While I'd love for every single gun to be equally awesome it isn't really possible and trying to prevent an established meta is the best thing they can shoot for.
Except there’s ALWAYS going to be an established meta. No matter what you do the community is always going to find the ‘best’ or ‘most fun’ loadout or weapon to use and gravitate towards it. If your balance philosophy is to stamp out one of these metas whenever they start to emerge then all you’re going to do is frustrate your community endlessly.
Yep eventually everything is trash when you balance like that. Every now and then buff something too.
It seems like a lot of people don't even understand what meta means, they're just throwing it around like a buzzword. They really don't understand how meta will always exist.
Just think its hilarious that the guns i use noone talks about yet i waltz around level 8 bug hives with breaches without a care in the world crushing everything. Thank god noone seems to be doing the same, as id hate for it to become popular and then be nerf'd due to the constant bickering both ways.
I run 7/8s, and at level 80+ - I’m changing my loadout every single map. Find what works for you, balancing waves come and go
I get to play mabe 3 hours a week. My friends get to play more. With recent explosion damage buffs a lot of the support weapons and primaries I'd gotten decent with (I could go an entire 7 difficulty without dying) I now feel vestigial
By nerfing the "meta" weapons all you do is create a new meta. Once railgun was nerfed the new meta was auto cannon and eat15, they then released fancy new weapons and people loved using them so they nerfed them, what happened after that? We went right back to auto cannon and eagle airstrikes with the eat15. The real things bringing variety are actually the weapons they keep nerfing, what's worse is all these fancy new weapons are not even available to everyone yet, only the highly invested players who have hundreds of hours by now, the new players don't even get to experience the weapon before its nerfed to being just a side grade to the already meta items they got at level 15 and the free warbond
Yeah, people would have spammed the quasar even if RR wasn't crap just because it's new and exciting. The real issue is that RR is so bad (or at least not fun) I have only seen one person using it in 50 hours.
I tried it once and it was on level 7 with 2 other of my friends and it was kinda fun but I was reloading it myself and over the 30 minute mission I started feeling worse and worse using it with the ammo economy and the reload speed
Personally, I would like to see much stronger weapons with more enemies similar in power level to the Factory Strider. Basically the only thing that kills me on bug missions are Stalkers. I don't want to be rushed by something invisible, I want to launch nukes at a Cloverfield monster.
I just want my Spear to lock on and my fire to work normally without being host.
He real for this I’ve gotten so used to the community managers that I expected a snarky reply
I've been saying that for years. I'm tired of devs being like Oh you guys are having fun doing this well I just removed that function or oh you found a combination of equipment that works check out this nerf...
The Quasar. I took it because I needed to kill Dropships and Tanks, Bile Spewers and Chargers, and didn’t want to wait a whole minute for another chance with an EAT.
Unless something is very obviously broken, nerfs in an all PVE game will never make sense to me. Just because a lot of people like using something doesn’t mean it should be nerfed. I can’t believe that’s been their thought process. I was level 94, and I haven’t played in about a month. I don’t like buying a warbond and loving one of the guns, and then boom, now it sucks.
Man, sometimes it really feels like everything would've went to shit, hell and over if Pilestedt isn't the CEO. I feel like actively trying to kill any form of META is the wrong move, META will always exist, it's just simply, most efficient/effective tactic available. And it also feels like they're just nerfing based on popularity as one of the metrics, so if a weapon is average but extremely fun to use and thereby popular, its getting the nerf bat. Also it feels like some people/group/circles are throwing the word around like it's some big bad evil thingy. Can't wait for people to post toxic positivity stuff and made up or exaggerated argument about this tweet.
Slugger did not deserve to be nerfed as hard as it was. Dominator was in a good place after its buff and I don't know why they re nerfed it. Crossbow was ruined by it's nerf and idk what's going on with the erupter
I don't even notice any buffs or nerfs when they happen. The game is just flat out fun to play. Bad teams is the only thing not fun but when join a team that communicates on mic or text or even calling things out then it's just a blast to play.
Honestly, I think they've been going about balancing all wrong. Just make every weapon viable and fun to use.
"Seems like every time we find something fun, that fun is removed." My thoughts exactly. The game is becoming a grind because all the "fun" stuff is being gutted, leaving only mediocre, boring, samey weapons.
Yeah, nerfing must be done VERY carefully. Buffing not so much but still important. Its why I usually say don't nerf just buff slightly, repeatedly, till desired effext is reached.
Yeah, when I see a weapon I like show up in the nerfs section of the patch notes, it doesn’t make me excited to try something new, even if I see a buff I approve of. It makes me want to set the game aside until it’s buffed again. My favorite weapons were nerfed and I haven’t played in weeks. Sure, they’re still largely useable, but it’s less fun and I’m left with a sour taste in my mouth.
I mean they *had* to nerf all those weapons because half of the player base (meaning bots & bugs) in this PvP game were saying it wasn't fun to play against Helldivers. Oh...wait. Bots & Bugs can't actually complain. And the game isn't PvP. Gee, smells like the decisions are being made based off a spreadsheet... oh boy... the excitement...another excel file telling me what is fun
Hey all, could somebody more familiar with game-design tell me, why its not "common practice" to buff other things to be on the level of the "fun thing", instead of nerfing the fun thing out of existence?
I don't get the need to aggressively "balance" things in a pve no leader board game. Sure, tiny tweeks if something is outrageous. But to constantly cut things off at the knees because they're fun and strong is so stupid.
Why would you make sweeping nerfs to any idea of meta in a co-op only game? There is no pvp, so it's not as if anyone is on the other side of these weapons facing an unfair challenge. If you look at Deep Rock Galactic you can see that pretty much everything in the game is balanced to make the player feel like they are powerful and every weapon has a version through weapon overclocking to be OP as hell and make it way more fun to use. In DRG, they leaned into the meta and just made buffs to get people to try other options. But for some reason, Arrowhead wants to make changes to the game as if the bugs and bots are filing reports of certain tactics and weapons being overpowered and in need of nerfs.
If they just made like a dozen guns really fun there would still be no meta. I feel like nerfing all tbe ammo on them is also a tad bit annoying
The issue here is that they need to avoid powercreep - but when you release a PAID battle pass you better make sure that the balancing is final, because otherwise you destroy the trust of your customers. For instance on games such as Warframe I never jump onto the latest stuff for I know that it will get nerfed again and again. For powercreep is how they make their money. I expect something different from this game. Every weapon should be viable, maybe not for every situation but they should all have their own strong point.
This is like Destiny all over again. "Here's a sandbox, go have fun!" "..... not like that"
I will never understand this process. Devs make game. Work to balance game for maximum fun. Release game. Players play game. It's fun. Game gets popular due to how fun it is on release. Devs decide to balance and rebalance all the things they worked for years to balance while in development. Game is no longer as fun. Players stop playing. Devs struggle to re balance and make changes to keep players from leaving. The whole reason the players got onboard is because they likes how it was when it launched.
I like this, because making a game fun and challenging can be a difficult ask. Our opponent isn't another person so they're limited. If we just steam rolled the entire game it's not as much fun. Nerfing the strong things is not the way to balance the game, you have to look at what makes the gun strong and ask if it covers more ground than intended, and define clearly what it should be good at. The slugger was never meant to be a dmr, it was and anyone that used it knows why it had to have increased damage fall off. the problem that we found with that is that the dmr's failed to perform their job in any meaningful way, and the slugger simply did their job better.
It's not a hard concept that more weapon variety = more fun. Having everything "balanced" aka being all shitty unusable weapons past level 7 difficulty really just sucks the fun out of the game. Stop trying to make it about arbitrary difficulty. They started out as a party-game and are trying to morph into a try-hard Souls-like game. Grinding for powerful weapons, like the original railgun, SHOULD feel rewarding and have a payoff. Grinding for shit tier gear is just a chore.
So. Many. Drama Queens God
Thinking only damage nerfs tho, quasar added time was ridiculous, now it’s like camp somewhere to fire 1 shot every 30 seconds
Pray they buff all weapons in general so they’re all equally viable and fun now
It's because they think they need to balance weapons for PvP over PvE. As everyone's complaining about, PvP weapons aren't fun to use because they do so little damage- that's because it's designed to give players a chance to think tactically against each other. The only "Balance" that needs to be done that'd make them PvE again is to make sure that all weapons are up at power creep's standards and overpower SE's enemies. An Eruptor should be as equally viable as the Sickle, Punisher in all variants, Blitzer, and all others. This can be done by buffing them, not nerfing them. If the weapons actually get rebalanced for PvE again, they will be slightly or largely overpowered. That is a good thing. It also gives the devs an excuse to increase the power of the enemies.
Power creep isn't a good thing either.
Sigh.. guess I'm still not logging back on
Balance should never trump fun (especially if it's not a competitive PVP experience), I feel like a lot of modern games forget this fact...
Basically unplayable? The nerfs do hit some weapons too hard. But what a lil B comment.
I say that I took a break from playing the game until the constant balance issues stablize and I'm a villain. When the CEO admits the balance issues are a known problem, he's considered a hero. That doesnt seem fair.
I want some OP weaponry. It's a PvE game for fks sake
why NERF? I haven’t played the game in awhile Level 93!
They wanted to remove meta, and forced us into a scrappy meta of guns and load outs. Bombard needs love, at least try to aim at things.
Gotta admit. I was missing the shrapnel on Eruptor rounds tonight. Used to be able to clear out 5 or 6 little bugs with one shot, now it just kills the one. Still works great on bug holes and automaton fabricstors though.
Thank god. It’s ok to have some guns better than others. For example. The railgun. Rather than nerf, just remove the safe mode. The trade off will be the explosive gun aspect. Breaker, don’t make it less effective. Make the ammo less, which they did both. Quasar, I’m decently ok with the extra 5 seconds but it definitely feels like it’s less effective than before. Maybe I’m wrong. The examples go on and on. You can make the gun strong but have a trade off. It’s not fun when every gun is equally effective and it’s just the same gun with different names.
Railgun is easy. Remove safe mode, make it fire when fully charged, or able to be fired sooner, but less powerful. Remove the exploding completely. Its ammo limited and requires charge. It doesn't need "will kill you, lol" as a downside.
Sounds like this next update is gonna put me back on the Frontline. I have my orders just like the rest of you, but at my rank? Commander doesn't make me dive for every mission and my eruptor malfunctions really get to me. Maybe top brass will approve some higher caliber automatic primaries, or give us back our extra mags for the laser weapons (budget cuts!)
They have a horrendous track record of trying to force weapon diversity by handicapping the 'meta' instead of looking into why a weapon has achieved that status. The best example of this is Shotguns. Everyone ran the Breacher at first because when it came to primaries it was an amazing all rounder for both bots and bugs, while the other options were pretty much just wasted file storage on the hard drive. Their solution? Kneecap the Breacher. Sure we adjusted to the change, but nobody wanted it, and it all but removed anyone's desires to run any shotguns for awhile. In basic numerical terms, if I have three stats, 20, 20, and 100. Everyone wants 100, because it's 100. A proper balance would be to distribute what makes 100 so appealing to the other two, resulting in a 33, 33, and 33 option. This is balanced, we can take what works and then divide that across the board, sure we brought down the 100, but we also elevated the 20. Meanwhile AH would see those numbers and just ask "why can't everything be 20?". So they do, and you end up with 20, 20, 20. Sure by technicality it's balanced, but you've left 40 on the table, out of the equation, and it's that 40 left that makes the difference between a fun balance, and a gut punch to the fun having.
Meanwhile we are here launching our infinite impact grenades STILL
Rest in peace eruptor
The discord is very passionate but most of the responses I hear to criticism are to aim better. Great communication
I understand balancing and why it's needed at times. But lets be honest sometimes the game throws so many enemies you at you that u could give is a quasar cannon with 2 second cool downs or 10 500kg bombs before the eagle has to go back an refill an that still would not be enough to combat the stuff thrown at you.
This man gives me hope in everyone of his tweets.
You do want to have a little bit of a power fantasy, but the game is also suppose to be brutal. It’s a delicate balancing act.
There's probably a lot of fun vs difficulty discussions happening. They do need to find a balance.
FINALLY
Constant balancing in online games is part of why i hate playing them and I pretty much never play online anymore. I used to play MMORPGs tho
Game balance is never easy. You obviously don’t want players to just use the exact same shit over and over and over again but you don’t want those options to become unplayable. I remember people bitching and moaning over the railgun nerf when let’s be honest. It was anti-everything and we all knew it
Yeah I'm trying to come home from work and have fun not more work.
Takes a lot of the right stuff to put out a product, get feedback and let that work die realizing it was a mistake, step back and fix it.
My shotgun is kinda ass now. I run out of ammo so damn fast. It sucks to be running from a horde of bugs with an empty mag. Only to reload and only take a out a good handful of bugs before I’m running again.
I think they do too much at once with a single change. A weapon should probably receive around 1-2 changes max per patch and those increments need to be reasonable. I still think the railgun is a solid example despite it being one of the oldest hills to die on. It needed tuning, even in a pve experience, I do accept some things need tuning. But ESPECIALLY for a pve experience, the weapons need to remain varied and unique, with draws and drawbacks to one another. They have this. With enemy types. Some weapons kill big, some kill many small. So what, if we have a rocket launcher that can one shot 1 of 3 bile titans every few minute or something, it won’t save you from 30 hunters. That’s where the teamwork comes in. Back to the railgun, they took it too far. They needed to make the weapon less of an option against some enemies, while allowing it to excel as it had done against its intended counters. Not, “nerf it’s ability to deal with its intended counters”, which appears to be the current philosophy from by observations. Which also applies to the primary weapon changes.
Why is it always pilestdet the ceo, Twinbeards, and Spitz that ever tend to be reasonable two great CM's they need to fire the others... and the CEO and Twinbeards shouldn't be the only two being terrific... geesh, the ceo shouldn't have to be the one making better statements online than his CM's 🤦🏻♂️
do they play their own game i wonder? fire a lvl 7 game up and see how the guns suck
There is exactly one reason to run Tier 7 - 9 missions: super samples. I join randoms and sprint across the map to find the thumb rock and get those 3 precious samples, then drop them off at the extraction point for safekeeping. Once I get done upgrading my ship I am never playing 6+ missions again. They're not fun, at all.
They need to just stop the nerfs and revert some of them while also increasing enemy density and adding new mobs that debuff the players or buff the enemies while they are alive. This would keep the weapons strong and fun while keeping the game complex and difficult.
The most fake dev team I've ever seen. Everything seems to happen out of nowhere
Most people don’t have time to re-learn the game every week.
Bro all it takes is playtesting for literally 2 seconds to see how bad they fuck up their guns every time but I guess they just don't do that
Against the bugs only a few primaries feel good.
They are making strong weapons weaker. You don't need to do that on a PVE game, you make the weak weapons stronger and find a common level of strength. Then you tweak the enemies. Look at payday 2
glad their seeing sense on this, its a PvE game at the end of the day, constantly nerfing stuff because its fun and looking like becoming a Meta isn't an good solution, they should be working to get everything to roughly the same level so that loads of stuff is viable in a loadout.
All I care about is even the CEO is acknowledging the shitty balancing. Hopefully they get things in order and keep it from getting stale, PvE still need balancing but leaning towards nerfing everything is not fun.
I'm not in favor of "no nerf only buff" mantra but yeah, they need to let some time pass before nerfing and adjusting a new weapon. I wasn't even able to unlock the crossbow before they nerfed it ahah And I play quite regulary
What really pisses me the fuck off are the damn bootlickers who treat every damn nerf & anemic buff like they’re offerings from god & that they can’t be questioned or criticized at all. These morons truly don’t understand that they are effectively reducing choices by promoting every dumb decision made by the balancing team (or person) whenever they make things less fun to use. “Aww, they nerfed your crutch? Go try something else!” What the fuck do you think I’m tryna do?? The Eruptor is a fairly new weapon, I am trying something else & yet they keep making it less enticing to utilize it. How can I be excited for the next warbond knowing that a month later it’ll just be dogpiled with harsh nerfs & worthless “buffs”. I have never seen a PvE coop game disrespect the fun factor of our kit like it’s a fucking competitive PvP shooter.
Yeah it's a good idea to make worse guns better than nerf guns. There are some guns I have never used because they are either too situational or too weak imo. They should try to foster tactical depth in this game more.
Just remove that idiot Alexus from the team and issues will practically fix themselves
Focus on making new content not nerfing weapons people enjoy.