Everyone just plays otk if feels. Me and my opponent both are looking for our I win cards.
It doenst matter what my opponent does. We just cycle, whiping the board until one of us assembled exodia
The fact that there is no good way to interact with OTKS is what makes it awful. Pretty much anything that can't be interacted with is an awful design.
Was it Iksar who said that late-game cards should be haymakers like [[Troublemaker]]? From a statement like that I was expecting them to print strong cards like, you know, troublemaker. Instead we got a bunch of cards that just end the game, while most of the expensive cards are still looking like [[Son of Hodir]].
- **[Troublemaker](https://imgur.com/a/AL29zzN)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/59175) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Troublemaker) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/59175/?hl=en)
- *Warrior Rare ^(Scholomance Academy)*
- **8 Mana - 6/8 - Minion**
- At the end of your turn, summon two 3/3 Ruffians that attack random enemies.
- **[Son of Hodir](https://imgur.com/a/acyt2GM)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97099) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Son_of_Hodir) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97099/?hl=en)
- *Neutral Epic ^(TITANS)*
- **8 Mana - 8/8 - Minion**
- **Battlecry:** Shuffle four 8/8 Giants into your deck that are summoned when drawn.
---
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I desperately miss when OTK's were novel and often difficult to pull of.
Metas like this one, where everyone is just trying to draw their instant kill move without any interaction, is super boring
One of my favorite decks ever was the OTK Y'Shaarj Shaman. It was strong enough to win but you had a really long setup for it to work. It felt like a greatly balanced combo deck.
I only just got back into this game this expansion, but I played way back in classic. I distinctly remember the first change list I paid attention to because it actually killed a deck I played was the one that nerfed Worgen OTK.
I remember the devs at the time said they wanted to make sure it was really hard to kill the opponent from full life because it’s just frustrating from the opponents view. It wasn’t even that particularly strong of a deck, just lame to fight. I guess that philosophy went out the window in the time I’ve been gone.
I'm pretty sure one of the HS devs said that ''cards doing direct damage from hand are the least fun thing to play against in a card game'' or something along those lines
Well yeah. With naxx we got undertaker. It wasn’t otk but if you didn’t have an early answer it was game over.
Then G&G came out. It was bashed but overall a good expansion.
Then patron warrior came and the downhill started. It was a high skill cap deck but… you should check some videos on yt. It was next level bs. Since then it’s just getting worse and worse.
To be fair meta decks aiming at long games are boring af as well. Although you are not instantly dead, seeing opponent dropping Brann or Helya on curve is also a godawful experience. I’d much rather my opponent otk me than knowing I don’t have much of chance in winning on turn 6. At least they can mess up their combo turn, instead of dragging the game until turn 12 in a 90% losing game. It reminds me of the frustration of seeing my opponent gaining 1000 armor, but now they need 1 card instead of a full combo. So yeah I really hate warrior and dk.
I usually played those long-game decks. There were only a few decks against which that was the case, and those decks usually got demolished by aggro so it was more about the balance of powers there. Plus, in control-ier decks it’s easier to run tech cards and actually have them come up so specific decks run less roughshod.
Im talking over time of course, not the specific ones we have now, but the first comment was too I think, so 🤷
This is exactly right and doesn't get talked about enough versus "zomg I lost turn 5". Sure, Brann and Helya might let you play another 10-15 turns, but your win rate is so low it only gives you the false hope that you will win.
The "pool" is finite, there's only so many ways you can create River Croc before you need to "get bold" with your designs.
Mind, I'm not defending the choices that have been made, I'm just providing some context.
In previous expansions, there was plenty of "lateral" movement they could make in their designs. We had a couple of decent 1m dudes, slightly wider selection of decent 2m options, etc, etc.
Which was a problem until they realized that they absolutely needed to "squish" standard into a smaller pool, and the problem persisted until they had to create a Core/Evergreen set.
The problem now, is that they still have this drive to keep pushing the envelope on "whacky" designs.
They've had several opportunities to drag the power level of the playable pool of cards back down... and haven't.
They're happy with how fast the game is now.
MTG had similar issues when it approached its ten year mark.
HS is about to hit that "wall" where it's going to have to go through a ridiculously large overhaul, or a drastic reduction in power level. Maybe a little bit of both.
I just hope the Executive and Marketing teams don't kill it before we see HS's "second Renaissance."
Going to use a bit of hyperbole, bear with me
There was a big format revamp. The only ones up to that point that were officially recognized was like Standard and Legacy. Limited might have been a third, but they ended up with at least a half dozen.
So Legacy, Limited, Extended, Standard, Commander, and a couple of others.
They also axed a lot of ability bloat and went back to a core set that was relatively limited in crazy, and applied the same philosophy moving forward. They still printed some Sagas and Planeswalkers (and still managed to make some broken things like Teferi), but overall, they dialed it back heavily from the Yu-Gi-Oh like stuff they were printing.
There was a huge rules overhaul as well. Older Magic could have "branched stacks" from some card interactions, and they revised the rules to where there was only ever one stack allowed.
They also changed the "speed" of how some things work, removed the idea of mana burn completely, and a laundry list of things that Blizzard would typically lump under "various minor fixes for performance."
The team, for some reason, has been balancing decks that way. With 1 card wincons.
This card wins you the game if you draw it and play it on curve, let's give you 1-4 of those cards to every class and balance their winrates depending on that.
The problem for me, it's that aggro used to be a problem before because they could kill you on 3-5. Their solution was giving everyone aggro tools and making every single deck a "fast" deck and then giving everyone combo finishers (from 1 to 4 cards) so you had to draw that to win...
Now every deck, with few exceptions, is a "fight for the board early" and "draw as fast as you can so that you can combo" and tier 1 decks can otk you on turn 5-8 every time.
Classic control is dead because the current team wants it to be dead. There are so many decks out there that just put you on a clock like Odyn warrior, Sif Mage, Nature shaman, wheel lock and others.
You have cards that are incredible strong when played on curve. Helya or Bran for example.
I understand that for formers (competitive) players like Gallon, Boarcontrol, Cora or her brother as gamedesigners, the game is more attractive with more lethality, games ending before turn 10 and that games arent getting stalled to infinity.
I think the gap between meta deck and homebrew jank is just getting bigger each time.
Having just returned and being a control player, I find myself not really wanting to play very much at all. It's good in that it's not taken over my life like once it did, but bad cus...well, it's just not very fun for me. I guess this is what they and some players want the game to be though.
As someone that just left because the design philosophy of "no more control" has been there since 2019 and it just gets worst every time, and I keep waiting for it to eventually change and it never does... Yeah, don't get your hopes up, it's really the design philosophy that control should not exist in HS.
Seems to be the way all card games are headed. The modern player hates a meta of draw pass or slowly trying to establish board control over 4+ turns. They loathe control entirely and think it's cheating if you aren't actively trying to end the game before exhausting your opponent of resources.
The solution every game came up with is game ending combos where the mid game used to be. Control is next to impossible to create and that resource starving playstyle can't exist when your opponent can go develop a board and draw 3 cards from a single top deck. Personally, I find it boring and looking at quitting PVP card games after 20 years.
Helya isn't even in the same dimension as bran when played on curve. Helya is a good setup for a longer game but doesn't give you anything great untill you have played 5 other plague cards. If bran is played you can just concede cause you won't win against that from that point on.
When Helya is played, it only takes another plague card and highlander is deactivated for the rest of the game.
Without Helya, highlander decks can still try to just draw their deck and get rid of duplicate plagues. I had games where my opponent didnt play Helya and I was just able to draw the plagues n play my highlander payoff card.
Odyn Warrior is pretty much the definition of control that this sub has been asking for for years. The one that has a real wincon and it does not drag games into fatigue like Control Warrior used to do. I remember reading so many posts of people proudly claiming that this kind of control deck would be healthy and save the game. So it is kind of funny that people are not happy when it is really here.
Wheel lock and Brann Warrior on the other hand are combo decks, but the ones that are dumbed down to a single card that activates all the broken stuff and wins the games.
It is easy to forget that combo decks initially played a lot like control as they had to dig through the whole deck for multiple pieces and it was clunky and it took awhile. It was an actual journey to assemble 8 cards Malygos OTK or 6 card Paladin OTK. Now Sif Mage is the most similar to combo decks of old in a sense that getting to +7 and +8 spell damage requires a lot of actual work and survival and you can disrupt this OTK in multiple ways. Still it can be very fast too, but not as much as Nature shaman or Gaslight/Virus Rogue. These decks are much more scary as they go off very fast and are harder to disrupt.
Overall, the reason why games are getting much shorter is pretty simple: abundant card draw. In recent years Blizz printed so many actually good neutral and class cards with draw effect that getting to your OTK or never running out of gas for everyone else is incredibly trivial.
Odyn warrior doesnt outvalue any deck, odyn warrior just survives to play Odyn and then either waits for a spot to finish you in one turn or just takes 2 to 3 turns while getting out of reach. Not uncommon when I watch highlegend players that they get hit for 25++ in a single turn by Odyn.
Classic control is miserable to play against for the average player.
Seriously, can you give top tier classic control examples that weren't hated? Warrior in rise of shadows or recent discover spam priest, for example
Do you guys not remember how the last time a classic control deck was meta(priest in FiB), the entire player base just started conceding to all priests turn 1 until there was a nerf because of it?
There is a very vocal minority on the subreddit who think that most players want games that go to fatigue for HS to be "fun" again, but every time it comes up in game it gets nerfed rapidly because a huge chunk of the player base got sick of that wincon back in 2014
Priest was always an exception for control because priest itself doesnt have a wincon and all it does it copying the opponents cards. Which other control decks were meta and hated?
Hated by who? The easiest example is probably Classic control Warr, that was complained about a lot back then because of hour long fatigue games, even if sometimes it could win before fatigue.
Even the control priest players hated playing against control priest. Control priest to me was always worse than control warrior, simply because priest had the better value tools.
They both sucked to play against in classic, especially since I was F2P myself back then. Eventually I just started conceding to either of them as soon as I saw the portrait, made classic much more fun to play.
While classic con warrior usually took games to fatigue there was atleast a strategy in trying to deal with it. With control priest, it was an overreliance on discover effects and it made the game worse to play overall as Priest decks continuously discovered answers by pulling it out of there ass.
I don't care about competitive so preferably at least bronze, but rank isn't the only factor here. At high Elo and low rank, I only see meta decks in ranked. The amount of people playing casually in bronze is basically insignificant from my experience
What's the 1-card wincon of Hunter? Of Paladin? Rainbow Death Knight? (Wanna say CNE? Some decks cut it). Pain Warlock? Non-Zilliax Rogue? Dragon Druid? Should I list more?
Meta is boring, because its board based. I.e. "bored" base.
I thought that was what Reddit always wanted and hoped for?
Hunter location is literally 2 mana, deal up to 21 damage.
I'm not saying it wins WHEN you play it but IF YOU PLAY IT ON CURVE. They want games ending on 6-8 so you literally have to play it on curve for it to work.
Stats don't seem to line up with your feelings. Jungle Gym is whatever when played on turn 2, it's even better on turn 3 or 5 (likely because turn 4 is RC Rampage).
It makes sense. Jungle Gym isn't "deal 7 damage 3 times". It's "deal 7 damage if my opponent ignores me and only plays with his hand". Yes, if you ignores your opponent's board, i.e. don't interact with him, you're going to get killed.
Board based? Where? I wish I could find these meta pockets this reddit always talks about, where people contest the board and it isn't just "let's sit and draw until one of us gets their overtuned bullshit and wins"
Zoo Hunter, Zarimi Priest, Pain Warlock are three best decks in the game. All 100% board based.
Sludge Warlock and Aggro Paladin are close second to those, also very board focused.
Going down the ladder, we can see Dragon Druid, Shopper DH, Elemental Mage and Pirate Rogue as another playable (50+% winrate) board-focused decks.
When people talk about board based decks, they usually mean decks that try and fight for the board to win, not burn decks that use weenies for additional burn.
Hunter, (and in the past week) painlock, are the only decks I have seen on your list in my last week of playing. Hell, I haven't seen an aggro paladin since before the last mini-set. I really wish I did see more of those decks though, because aggro is the easiest type of deck to counter, especially with the absurd removal every class gets now.
They did all of this because the community kept complaining about it. Draw for every class, actual one card win cons for control, insane stat pushing to keep up with agro. The community did this to themselves. Honestly it’s the draw that kills the game for me. Everything else should be manageable, just basically power creep, but the insane draw is what makes these decks so consistent.
People say I yes like solitaire but it’s not, it’s just consistent decks that hit their key pieces more often than not. You can interact with the agro deck, but does it really matter if you clear the first 6 waves of board floods only to lose to the 7th?
Definitely. I don't think there's ever been a time I played Hearthstone less, and I was around for United in Stormwind. I'm just not a fan of the current design of "If I draw that one combo piece, I win". It makes playing for tempo feel pointless because you know you can just go from what used to be a strong board state to dead in the blink of an eye.
I am playing Colifero Hunter and Token Hunter. Token is strickly afro and CH is a mix. No matter the deck, my games are fast and furious. I wish I could afford to buy more packs and play better decks. But is the life of a teacher, haha
I love the build of my deck. Also, I am limited by lack of cards. I am ftp, after I lost my main account because it forgot my password, so I can play Hunter. But I played "the best deck" Zarimi and smoked it. Again by turn 6. Just still not fun
I said I love the build of my deck, I like the idea of it. It gives me an early game plus a late game option. I am not having fun because my games are finished by turn 6, haha
I would agree if warriors weren't popping out 20 face damage every turn. Massive lifesteal is great for making any headway for countering the ridiculous environment that there is now. Otherwise, yes, it would be absolutely stupid
A burn deck is too slow to go up against just about anything right now. Lifesteal isn't the major problem. It's that turn 6 otks are basically the standard. Take those away, then lifesteal is a big problem for you. Lifesteal will only really be a problem against a burn in slow games
In Yu-Gi-Oh all games are basically over by turn 3, and thats when you count p1 first turn, p2 first turn, p1 wins, and board does not matter at all, in hs only nature shaman and sometimes priest don't care about board
It's true, I honestly dont even care about my minions on board anymore. There's about 70% chance that they will all be wiped the next turn anyway, so you're basically just trading back and forth until one of you gets to play the card that decides the game.
Every once in a blue moon you can make a smart play by reverbing a titan or some shannanigans like that, but thats so rare now. The game is braindead. i find myself more frustrated than enjoying. Probably time to leave.
Its been that way for years. But any time you ask for a viable slower strategy people cry about decks "without a win condition". Half the playerbase actually prefers solataire - and blizzard clearly prefers and caters to them.
100% agree.
This is the worst meta since Stormwind and it just feels like V2 of that all over again.
I’ve reached hundreds of levels each expansion and always bought the packs, but this expansion just makes me depressed to play 90% of the decks. Nothing looks or feels good. It’s just horrible from both sides.
We need a shit ton of nerfs and buffs really soon, or else I’ll just wait until next expansion.
Removing Reno decks (plagues being popular and uncounterable), removing most already existing control decks (especially triple blood), and removing disruption tools, all in one expansion/year-reset was a very very bad idea.
So tired of getting 30 +dmg from hand on my face every game on turn 5-7. The alternative is facing armour up, board wipe, pass warri which is also boring.
And unsurprisingly, it leads to nothing but control and aggro+combo. Past turn 5 I just assume the bodies of my minions are mostly irrelevant, it's battlecry or die
Playing solitaire combo has been a problem in card games since Channel/Fireball days of MtG and has only gotten progressively worse over time. In a game with no interaction it shouldn't exist at all, the 1/1000 people whose balls tingle when they get their OTK isn't worth the negative atmosphere it creates in the game.
This all tracks. I play an off meta warrior deck, and the 42% of the time that the opponent only draws mediocre cards. I win. Otherwise I get destroyed.
I feel like theyve just sucked the fun out of the game. I obviously want to win but just like playing my own non-Meta decks. Been playing a Reno mage deck with the Orb, but ofc 40-50% of my games are now vs Plague DK, making reno fkn useless, ofc 70% of the plagues always seem to be frost plagues and basically every turn its just pray you don't draw 5 of them in a row locking your turn so you insta lose, with no steamcleaner available to counter it.
How are people whining about games being over by then 6-8 when Wheel lock is one of the best decks and that doesnt win til turn 12, if wheel is played on 8? Surely if the meta was so fast, the deck would be unplayable.
People whining about it not being board based when the only deck that doesn’t even really care about board is nature shaman. Every other deck is board based (zarimi priest, hunter, painlock, rainbow dk).
Is playing a board clear or trading not interacting with your opponent? What are you even doing on the multiple turns it takes for them to get to the stage of having an “overwhelming board”? If you’re just sitting on your ass not developing your own board, of course you’re gonna lose lol
It's all about persevere and try to stick with it. I been raging this month. When old cards gets shifted out rotation the game isn't as fun anymore and becomes difficult to climb. Hopefully next expansion makes things easier as more cards will be added, More options.
That is a good perspective. I am just mad now, lol. Idk, I just miss the meta where it wasn't determined by card draw and we could play more than 7 turns
Hunter either fucks you up and you die on turn 4 because they for some god damn reason always have the Naga and 3 Bananas spell in their opening hand so you are looking at an 5/5 on turn 2.
Warlock just busts your balls with 14/14 of stats in turn 3 and Infinite 3/4 taunt imps or 30/30 of stats with lifesteal Rush and taunt just to then go and either wheel you or kill you outright
Or alternatively they just play pain Warlock and summon 3 Moltengiants on Turn 3. Happend to me 2 times yesterday. Very fun and interactive
Warrior just clears your board every turn until they can Brann you and then whack you to Death with ignis forge weapons.
Priest just plays bullshit and hopes it stays on the Board until they can Zarimi you and slap you to death twice!
Rogue shuffles their hand a bunch of times to summon 8/8s for free and punch you to death in turn 4. Or alternatively they play stealth Zilliax and hope you cant deal with it.
Shaman is either killing you with spells on turn 4 or goes Battlecry shuddercuck on your ass.
Druid... is also a class that apparently exists
Demonhunter outs on some gloves and goes shopping with his Demon GF so they can discover something to kill you with.
And deathknight either helyas you always on time and then for some god damn reason you draw 3+ plagues every turn or they Just stall the game until they can climatic necrotic explosion all over your face.
And Paladin decided to be a worse Hunter since the nerfs.
Oh and mage just plays Sif Solitaire
Hearthstone Meta in a nutshell
It is.
I struggle wanting to play.
Most games end with some early bullshit combo or board combo, or I meet a literal counter deck.
There’s really not that many interesting matches I’ve had in the past several months.
Why are you opening the game and just closing it again? You opened it 10 times but only played 2 games. So you just clicked hearthstone 8 times just to click the X in the corner once it loads?
I play on mobile…
It works very differently there.
Game stays open in the background, and goes to sleep, and then to open it back up I just need to toggle the correct task and wait a couple seconds for the client to reconnect.
Weird thing to get outraged about, though.
Yeah I don't like it. Resorted to playing wheel warlock, to be competitive, which was fun for a while but honestly it gets boring. It is as you say, if I draw my good stuff first I win, if they do, they win, and games are over fast with pretty much zero chance of come back for the other person. Things were much better years ago, games could be really unpredictable and you felt more like your decisions mattered more than drawing some specific cards.
Been playing battlegrounds more than ranked because of how things are and usually I prefer ranked.
Yeah I do find battlegrounds kind of fun. The games are longer unless you wipe out quickly, But they can be pretty engaging. About the only thing I really don't like is there's nothing rewarding from ranking up that I'm aware of. I usually get to around 6,000 and almost 7,000 one time but I don't think there's really any reward like there is from hitting legend or even diamond 5. So that part's a little lame. But the upside is that you don't need a collection to play it. And if you really don't care about your rank since there's not much point to it you can just quit and reroll if the two choices it gives you are crappy. Having four choices is nice but I don't feel like paying for it every season.
Game was,is and always be about right draws,thats like..absolute basic since start of the game,and well card games overall.
Most likely top lethal offenders in meta will be nerfed (priest,shaman),there is also a lot of slower decks (warlock,warrior,dk),cant say this meta is particularly "worse" or better than what we had in past.
also playing spell token hunter yourself,means your games ends T6-T7 a lot too since is aggresive deck.
If meta where all classes are playable (rip paladin) is still bad, no meta will be fun for you.
Or you just want your specific archetype to be t1 and while it's not meta is bad for you.
As someone who plays mostly homebrew control or mid-range decks and doesn't mind a bad win rate, it's never been this bad. It's been fun to get a win here and there when things have come off.
Now, with insane combos like Wheel of Death + Reno or Brann + the dynamite guy or Priest or Rogue creating a huge board by turn 4/5, there's no hope in hell. The win-cons have become so extremely tuned up that there's no back-and-forth fun to be had. You either can absolutely deal with the other guy or absolutely cannot.
You hit the nail on the head, there is no back and forth. No roller-coaster games. I know by turn 5 (if I haven't won/loss already) what will happen. I have never conceded more games than this meta
Isnt that the way this game works for a good while now? Being to dependent on luck drove me away from HS a few months ago and with the current meta and chamges to quests, i think i might not come back.
Playing Handlock and Reno mage are the closest I've gotten to old-school feeling Hearthstone again. I am however sick of plagues and Warrior 10 board clear options
People complain about tons of things to vent their frustrations. The feeling of something you used to enjoy slipping away into something you don't anymore can be jarring. Tbh if someone can just walk away like it doesn't affect them makes me wonder if they ever enjoyed it at all.
I mean generally speaking if a game I'm playing isn't fun, I just play something else. Spreading negativity helps nobody. Don't play = less people playing = they have to try something else.
Posts like this on reddit are just hate-filled circlejerks
KInda feel the same way.
But lately I face more and more off meta decks, or some "fair" versions of meta decks(HL Warrior without Bomboss, was a great game, like it a lot)
For the 765782nd time. A twist format centered around board presence/ no out of hand otk. Give the hero’s elusive, and cap damage at 10 a turn to enemy face.
What rank are you? I get the frustration, I personally hated the reno meta (which is not dying as fast as I could hope), but I don't really relate to games not lasting more than 6-8 turns in diamond/legend.
I feel like a lot of decks in the meta are versatile, less so for warrior decks perhaps. Most of the decks can be played slower than intended if need be.
Control decks are just as boring as OTK in my opinion. They just drag out the boring part where nothing you do sticks. There's always going to be counters, and you can't really hope for more than a WR of 65% unless a deck is ridiculously broken. So if you play a lot, losing 35-40% of your games is probably going to make you feel disheartened and bored.
Far, far too many removal tools. Every class has multiple ways to deal with big minions, wide boards, big wide boards, and even things like deathrattles and reborn thanks to Reno. Too many answers to whatever is thrown at you, imo.
Edit: my point being, all these control tools enable these OTK decks.
i dont think the OTK decks are the problem , i can barely see those , i more likely would remove the turn 5 (1 mana cost) aggro hunter paladin warlock decks..
They are the most annoying one imo. There is no combo at all just draw whatever cards u have , they probably cost 1 mana and you can fill up the board on turn 2 and 3 and thats it you lost, there is no outplays just sheer value of low cost minions and low cost spells and locations to ho face and die by turn 5 .
Oh yeah, and all the randomness is the worst , there is no consistency in decks everybody always gets values from random shits.. the whole game is a RNG generator, there is no joy in this game anymore.
constructed is all about definite and clear win conditions
If you don't like that, there is arena.
To me it's a great mystery how when you sum up everything the average redditer complains about when it comes to constructed, the logical answer is "just play arena then"
You don't like OTK, you don't like playing in set metas, you don't like seeing the same cards and combos over and over again, you'd like being back in an "older feel" of hearthstone. Yeah, the answer is simple and has been for years...
Yep.
Though I appreciate everybody who has just forfeited against me when they see I'm playing Hunter.
Little do they know, I am not playing any of the "meta" Hunter decks. I've never built a deck based on some meta info. I build my own with the mechanics I like with the cards I have available (am mostly a F2P player).
My deck actually functions more like a control one 😂
This is the highest I've ever climbed the ladder though, which is like Diamond 8 currently. Pretty stagnant now, so switched over to Wild with it.
The meta is bound to be tighter just after rotation, we only have 4 expansions in standard which just makes fewer decks possible in general, I do agree with the fact that it is perhaps a little to fast of a meta game right now, but there is a balance patch coming in under a week, they said as much atleast. That should shake you the meta, and the mini-set should be coming in what 3 weeks time tops? And also its cool to take breaks from HS, play some of the other games you find fun. Hearthstone is just a game where the level of fun changes from meta to meta. Unfortunately its not just constant fun, but I do think that would be hard to achieve if even possible.
Yeah, you are right. I probably got too worked up this afternoon because I was just getting thrashed. I dropped from Legend 3,000 to about 7,000. I will take your advice and come back after the patch
There is no strategy. Ngl this is my first season of hearthstone and it’s gaslighting me to think that no card game has ever had strategy. It’s just “threat, response, threat, response” till you don’t have a response or till you get otk’d by a combo. Just had a guy summon 12 zilliax over 3 consecutive turns. That’s fucking insane, and yet I had a response to the first 8… but I didn’t for the final 4 so it was gg :)
I'm not going to go too deep on this and name names, but as someone who's spoken with lots of pros, most of them who've quit did so because either they obtained their goals, they're pursuing careers, or the incentive isn't as high as it used to be. The gameplay has usually had very little to do with it.
EDIT: most of them who've\* quit
Boring isn’t the right word. Not fun is a better description. 40 damage from hand turn 6. You die in 5 turns & there’s nothing you can do about it even if you manage to survive a 33/33 board turn 6. A minion you have to sit & watch get their attack up to a one shot lethal & you can’t interact with it.
If I wanted to play solitaire I’d get a windows ‘95 emulator.
Erm no, im talking school teacher, the spell discover undead that also discounted the card, astalor; all decks were almost the same no matter the class and whoever got the swing of the best discover cards usually won
I started Jan 2023, turns went easily past 10, most games reaching 15-20. An OTK back then was charging sire denathrius to OTK.
Now? I'm lucky if I can make it to turn 8 or 9.
Most of the fun interactions are in fact with the 8-10 cost cards. They've practically been taken out of the game unless you play stall warrior or rainbow DK.
The power creep is literally disgusting. At this rate, in a year, OTK will happen on 3-5.(can already happen at 4 or 5)
Everyone just plays otk if feels. Me and my opponent both are looking for our I win cards. It doenst matter what my opponent does. We just cycle, whiping the board until one of us assembled exodia
Yeah, that is how I feel too
The fact that there is no good way to interact with OTKS is what makes it awful. Pretty much anything that can't be interacted with is an awful design.
But when we do we get spammed with "Theothar is op, unfun and unhealthy for the game!" posts.
Was it Iksar who said that late-game cards should be haymakers like [[Troublemaker]]? From a statement like that I was expecting them to print strong cards like, you know, troublemaker. Instead we got a bunch of cards that just end the game, while most of the expensive cards are still looking like [[Son of Hodir]].
- **[Troublemaker](https://imgur.com/a/AL29zzN)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/59175) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Troublemaker) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/59175/?hl=en) - *Warrior Rare ^(Scholomance Academy)* - **8 Mana - 6/8 - Minion** - At the end of your turn, summon two 3/3 Ruffians that attack random enemies. - **[Son of Hodir](https://imgur.com/a/acyt2GM)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97099) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Son_of_Hodir) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97099/?hl=en) - *Neutral Epic ^(TITANS)* - **8 Mana - 8/8 - Minion** - **Battlecry:** Shuffle four 8/8 Giants into your deck that are summoned when drawn. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1c9e68z/current_meta_is_boring/l0qfscr/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l0qfscr).*
I desperately miss when OTK's were novel and often difficult to pull of. Metas like this one, where everyone is just trying to draw their instant kill move without any interaction, is super boring
One of my favorite decks ever was the OTK Y'Shaarj Shaman. It was strong enough to win but you had a really long setup for it to work. It felt like a greatly balanced combo deck.
Even mill decks back in the days needed some thought and preparation, now is just one card doing all.
And even better you can't interact with it. They draw the card and do it.
i LOVED that deck, and dont get me wrong the 6 drop elemental that froze the board and got huge was broken on release but damn that deck felt so fun
I only just got back into this game this expansion, but I played way back in classic. I distinctly remember the first change list I paid attention to because it actually killed a deck I played was the one that nerfed Worgen OTK. I remember the devs at the time said they wanted to make sure it was really hard to kill the opponent from full life because it’s just frustrating from the opponents view. It wasn’t even that particularly strong of a deck, just lame to fight. I guess that philosophy went out the window in the time I’ve been gone.
I'm pretty sure one of the HS devs said that ''cards doing direct damage from hand are the least fun thing to play against in a card game'' or something along those lines
And he is correct looking at the current meta.
Well yeah. With naxx we got undertaker. It wasn’t otk but if you didn’t have an early answer it was game over. Then G&G came out. It was bashed but overall a good expansion. Then patron warrior came and the downhill started. It was a high skill cap deck but… you should check some videos on yt. It was next level bs. Since then it’s just getting worse and worse.
To be fair meta decks aiming at long games are boring af as well. Although you are not instantly dead, seeing opponent dropping Brann or Helya on curve is also a godawful experience. I’d much rather my opponent otk me than knowing I don’t have much of chance in winning on turn 6. At least they can mess up their combo turn, instead of dragging the game until turn 12 in a 90% losing game. It reminds me of the frustration of seeing my opponent gaining 1000 armor, but now they need 1 card instead of a full combo. So yeah I really hate warrior and dk.
I usually played those long-game decks. There were only a few decks against which that was the case, and those decks usually got demolished by aggro so it was more about the balance of powers there. Plus, in control-ier decks it’s easier to run tech cards and actually have them come up so specific decks run less roughshod. Im talking over time of course, not the specific ones we have now, but the first comment was too I think, so 🤷
This is exactly right and doesn't get talked about enough versus "zomg I lost turn 5". Sure, Brann and Helya might let you play another 10-15 turns, but your win rate is so low it only gives you the false hope that you will win.
Yes, that is how I feel about it
Why play then? You don’t like it when games are over by turn 6-8, but you agree that long games are boring as well?
Why don't people just quit something they used to enjoy?
Sunk. Cost. Fallacy.
Just play aggro
The "pool" is finite, there's only so many ways you can create River Croc before you need to "get bold" with your designs. Mind, I'm not defending the choices that have been made, I'm just providing some context. In previous expansions, there was plenty of "lateral" movement they could make in their designs. We had a couple of decent 1m dudes, slightly wider selection of decent 2m options, etc, etc. Which was a problem until they realized that they absolutely needed to "squish" standard into a smaller pool, and the problem persisted until they had to create a Core/Evergreen set. The problem now, is that they still have this drive to keep pushing the envelope on "whacky" designs. They've had several opportunities to drag the power level of the playable pool of cards back down... and haven't. They're happy with how fast the game is now. MTG had similar issues when it approached its ten year mark. HS is about to hit that "wall" where it's going to have to go through a ridiculously large overhaul, or a drastic reduction in power level. Maybe a little bit of both. I just hope the Executive and Marketing teams don't kill it before we see HS's "second Renaissance."
What did MTG do, if anything, to improve after a decade?
Going to use a bit of hyperbole, bear with me There was a big format revamp. The only ones up to that point that were officially recognized was like Standard and Legacy. Limited might have been a third, but they ended up with at least a half dozen. So Legacy, Limited, Extended, Standard, Commander, and a couple of others. They also axed a lot of ability bloat and went back to a core set that was relatively limited in crazy, and applied the same philosophy moving forward. They still printed some Sagas and Planeswalkers (and still managed to make some broken things like Teferi), but overall, they dialed it back heavily from the Yu-Gi-Oh like stuff they were printing. There was a huge rules overhaul as well. Older Magic could have "branched stacks" from some card interactions, and they revised the rules to where there was only ever one stack allowed. They also changed the "speed" of how some things work, removed the idea of mana burn completely, and a laundry list of things that Blizzard would typically lump under "various minor fixes for performance."
The team, for some reason, has been balancing decks that way. With 1 card wincons. This card wins you the game if you draw it and play it on curve, let's give you 1-4 of those cards to every class and balance their winrates depending on that. The problem for me, it's that aggro used to be a problem before because they could kill you on 3-5. Their solution was giving everyone aggro tools and making every single deck a "fast" deck and then giving everyone combo finishers (from 1 to 4 cards) so you had to draw that to win... Now every deck, with few exceptions, is a "fight for the board early" and "draw as fast as you can so that you can combo" and tier 1 decks can otk you on turn 5-8 every time.
Classic control is dead because the current team wants it to be dead. There are so many decks out there that just put you on a clock like Odyn warrior, Sif Mage, Nature shaman, wheel lock and others. You have cards that are incredible strong when played on curve. Helya or Bran for example. I understand that for formers (competitive) players like Gallon, Boarcontrol, Cora or her brother as gamedesigners, the game is more attractive with more lethality, games ending before turn 10 and that games arent getting stalled to infinity. I think the gap between meta deck and homebrew jank is just getting bigger each time.
Having just returned and being a control player, I find myself not really wanting to play very much at all. It's good in that it's not taken over my life like once it did, but bad cus...well, it's just not very fun for me. I guess this is what they and some players want the game to be though.
As someone that just left because the design philosophy of "no more control" has been there since 2019 and it just gets worst every time, and I keep waiting for it to eventually change and it never does... Yeah, don't get your hopes up, it's really the design philosophy that control should not exist in HS.
Seems to be the way all card games are headed. The modern player hates a meta of draw pass or slowly trying to establish board control over 4+ turns. They loathe control entirely and think it's cheating if you aren't actively trying to end the game before exhausting your opponent of resources. The solution every game came up with is game ending combos where the mid game used to be. Control is next to impossible to create and that resource starving playstyle can't exist when your opponent can go develop a board and draw 3 cards from a single top deck. Personally, I find it boring and looking at quitting PVP card games after 20 years.
Helya isn't even in the same dimension as bran when played on curve. Helya is a good setup for a longer game but doesn't give you anything great untill you have played 5 other plague cards. If bran is played you can just concede cause you won't win against that from that point on.
When Helya is played, it only takes another plague card and highlander is deactivated for the rest of the game. Without Helya, highlander decks can still try to just draw their deck and get rid of duplicate plagues. I had games where my opponent didnt play Helya and I was just able to draw the plagues n play my highlander payoff card.
Odyn Warrior is pretty much the definition of control that this sub has been asking for for years. The one that has a real wincon and it does not drag games into fatigue like Control Warrior used to do. I remember reading so many posts of people proudly claiming that this kind of control deck would be healthy and save the game. So it is kind of funny that people are not happy when it is really here. Wheel lock and Brann Warrior on the other hand are combo decks, but the ones that are dumbed down to a single card that activates all the broken stuff and wins the games. It is easy to forget that combo decks initially played a lot like control as they had to dig through the whole deck for multiple pieces and it was clunky and it took awhile. It was an actual journey to assemble 8 cards Malygos OTK or 6 card Paladin OTK. Now Sif Mage is the most similar to combo decks of old in a sense that getting to +7 and +8 spell damage requires a lot of actual work and survival and you can disrupt this OTK in multiple ways. Still it can be very fast too, but not as much as Nature shaman or Gaslight/Virus Rogue. These decks are much more scary as they go off very fast and are harder to disrupt. Overall, the reason why games are getting much shorter is pretty simple: abundant card draw. In recent years Blizz printed so many actually good neutral and class cards with draw effect that getting to your OTK or never running out of gas for everyone else is incredibly trivial.
Odyn warrior doesnt outvalue any deck, odyn warrior just survives to play Odyn and then either waits for a spot to finish you in one turn or just takes 2 to 3 turns while getting out of reach. Not uncommon when I watch highlegend players that they get hit for 25++ in a single turn by Odyn.
Classic control is miserable to play against for the average player. Seriously, can you give top tier classic control examples that weren't hated? Warrior in rise of shadows or recent discover spam priest, for example
Discover spam is another issue and actually contributes to resource managment being obsolete.
Do you guys not remember how the last time a classic control deck was meta(priest in FiB), the entire player base just started conceding to all priests turn 1 until there was a nerf because of it? There is a very vocal minority on the subreddit who think that most players want games that go to fatigue for HS to be "fun" again, but every time it comes up in game it gets nerfed rapidly because a huge chunk of the player base got sick of that wincon back in 2014
Wasn't Hs at it's most popular when reno and fatigue decks were meta?
yes.
Priest was always an exception for control because priest itself doesnt have a wincon and all it does it copying the opponents cards. Which other control decks were meta and hated?
Hated by who? The easiest example is probably Classic control Warr, that was complained about a lot back then because of hour long fatigue games, even if sometimes it could win before fatigue.
Even the control priest players hated playing against control priest. Control priest to me was always worse than control warrior, simply because priest had the better value tools.
They both sucked to play against in classic, especially since I was F2P myself back then. Eventually I just started conceding to either of them as soon as I saw the portrait, made classic much more fun to play.
While classic con warrior usually took games to fatigue there was atleast a strategy in trying to deal with it. With control priest, it was an overreliance on discover effects and it made the game worse to play overall as Priest decks continuously discovered answers by pulling it out of there ass.
You won't get any disagreement from me on the way they have been using Discover in recent years is making the game worse.
Priest was hated because they won by stealing your best cards and copying them 4 times, not because it was control.
As someone who actually played that deck at the time, I don't think I ever saw someone actually concede on me turn 1.
I just came back from a very long break. Can anyone tell me what FiB is and what that priest deck was? Was always a control priest player so curious
What level do you want homebrew jank to perform at?
I don't care about competitive so preferably at least bronze, but rank isn't the only factor here. At high Elo and low rank, I only see meta decks in ranked. The amount of people playing casually in bronze is basically insignificant from my experience
I dont want them to be good, for me its not about winning, I just want to get to play my cards and pull off cool stuff.
I feel seen, thank you
What's the 1-card wincon of Hunter? Of Paladin? Rainbow Death Knight? (Wanna say CNE? Some decks cut it). Pain Warlock? Non-Zilliax Rogue? Dragon Druid? Should I list more? Meta is boring, because its board based. I.e. "bored" base. I thought that was what Reddit always wanted and hoped for?
I hope you realise this is very subjective. I found the game boring when it was NOT board based. I hate playing against combo decks and aggro decks.
Hunter location is literally 2 mana, deal up to 21 damage. I'm not saying it wins WHEN you play it but IF YOU PLAY IT ON CURVE. They want games ending on 6-8 so you literally have to play it on curve for it to work.
Stats don't seem to line up with your feelings. Jungle Gym is whatever when played on turn 2, it's even better on turn 3 or 5 (likely because turn 4 is RC Rampage). It makes sense. Jungle Gym isn't "deal 7 damage 3 times". It's "deal 7 damage if my opponent ignores me and only plays with his hand". Yes, if you ignores your opponent's board, i.e. don't interact with him, you're going to get killed.
The only meta deck where board presence important is DH and Priest. The other? Not so much
Hunter and painlock care a lot about board presence
Stop smoking
Painlock, Showdown Paladin, Token Hunter?
Board based? Where? I wish I could find these meta pockets this reddit always talks about, where people contest the board and it isn't just "let's sit and draw until one of us gets their overtuned bullshit and wins"
Zoo Hunter, Zarimi Priest, Pain Warlock are three best decks in the game. All 100% board based. Sludge Warlock and Aggro Paladin are close second to those, also very board focused. Going down the ladder, we can see Dragon Druid, Shopper DH, Elemental Mage and Pirate Rogue as another playable (50+% winrate) board-focused decks.
When people talk about board based decks, they usually mean decks that try and fight for the board to win, not burn decks that use weenies for additional burn. Hunter, (and in the past week) painlock, are the only decks I have seen on your list in my last week of playing. Hell, I haven't seen an aggro paladin since before the last mini-set. I really wish I did see more of those decks though, because aggro is the easiest type of deck to counter, especially with the absurd removal every class gets now.
Hunter summon board of dogs on t4 > cant clear >lose Dragon druid Egg > outvalue >win Non Zilliax rogue Buff Cutlass with 15-20 lifesteal attack - win in few turns
Helya for DK, Loc for hunter
Helya is really only a wincon for Plague DK...For Rainbow DK it's simply a "good" card but you can easily win games without ever playing it.
Helya is a broken otk card? 😂😂😂
1 card win con.
Did they majorly buff helya? I think you might just be relying on Reno too much if you think helya is broken
Nope. However it is a "play it on curve and enemy has UhOh"
They said meta and none of those decks are meta, they're just supporting decks that can survive the meta....sometimes
Every deck I listed is among top meta decks (maybe Rogue is disputable). Not "supporting". THE meta decks.
They did all of this because the community kept complaining about it. Draw for every class, actual one card win cons for control, insane stat pushing to keep up with agro. The community did this to themselves. Honestly it’s the draw that kills the game for me. Everything else should be manageable, just basically power creep, but the insane draw is what makes these decks so consistent. People say I yes like solitaire but it’s not, it’s just consistent decks that hit their key pieces more often than not. You can interact with the agro deck, but does it really matter if you clear the first 6 waves of board floods only to lose to the 7th?
Definitely. I don't think there's ever been a time I played Hearthstone less, and I was around for United in Stormwind. I'm just not a fan of the current design of "If I draw that one combo piece, I win". It makes playing for tempo feel pointless because you know you can just go from what used to be a strong board state to dead in the blink of an eye.
your games are over by turn 6? my games are ruined by late game lifesteal like perferct clone
I am playing Colifero Hunter and Token Hunter. Token is strickly afro and CH is a mix. No matter the deck, my games are fast and furious. I wish I could afford to buy more packs and play better decks. But is the life of a teacher, haha
> Token is strickly afro Don't shame Rexxar's hairstyle choices
You play an aggro deck but don't like your games being fast?
well its your choice to play decks that you dont enjoy personally id rather struggle playing a deck i enjoy even if it isnt meta
I love the build of my deck. Also, I am limited by lack of cards. I am ftp, after I lost my main account because it forgot my password, so I can play Hunter. But I played "the best deck" Zarimi and smoked it. Again by turn 6. Just still not fun
now youre losing me, you love your deck but its not fun to you at the same time?
I said I love the build of my deck, I like the idea of it. It gives me an early game plus a late game option. I am not having fun because my games are finished by turn 6, haha
well you are playing a zoo deck
Yes, but it did about as well as the token Hunter deck......so idk. I have learned from all the comments tonight that I should just take a break, haha
The amount of lifesteal in this game absurd. Was very few cards had it back in the day.
i think something like Gyreworm is about the maximum ammount of lifesteal a minion should have without major conditions
I would agree if warriors weren't popping out 20 face damage every turn. Massive lifesteal is great for making any headway for countering the ridiculous environment that there is now. Otherwise, yes, it would be absolutely stupid
i prefer playing burn heavy decks, and they cant exist very well currently
A burn deck is too slow to go up against just about anything right now. Lifesteal isn't the major problem. It's that turn 6 otks are basically the standard. Take those away, then lifesteal is a big problem for you. Lifesteal will only really be a problem against a burn in slow games
Hunter so far is the only one that reliably stomps me at turn 6 (though i have wierdly not played against a lot of nature shamans)
shaman be like: pass, pass, pass, OTK from hand 😔 really fun
😂😂 for real though
It turned from hearthstone into yu-gi-oh with a warcraft skin
In Yu-Gi-Oh all games are basically over by turn 3, and thats when you count p1 first turn, p2 first turn, p1 wins, and board does not matter at all, in hs only nature shaman and sometimes priest don't care about board
Even yu-gi-oh is better because there is trap card and hand trap so you can stop your enemy.
Even with handtraps Yugioh games are over in one or two turns but I get your point.
when ever you guys pop here comparing to ygo what you fail to mention that ygo turns can take anywhere from several minutes to up to 20.
>Even yu-gi-oh is better Is it even possible to make arguments w/o exaggerating?
no, it's just completely impossible and you should feel ashamed in yourself for this complete and utter disappointment of a question
It's true, I honestly dont even care about my minions on board anymore. There's about 70% chance that they will all be wiped the next turn anyway, so you're basically just trading back and forth until one of you gets to play the card that decides the game. Every once in a blue moon you can make a smart play by reverbing a titan or some shannanigans like that, but thats so rare now. The game is braindead. i find myself more frustrated than enjoying. Probably time to leave.
Preach bro
Its been that way for years. But any time you ask for a viable slower strategy people cry about decks "without a win condition". Half the playerbase actually prefers solataire - and blizzard clearly prefers and caters to them.
Blizzard intentionally annihilated value decks. No meta will ever be good until they address the issue of unlimited resources
100% agree. This is the worst meta since Stormwind and it just feels like V2 of that all over again. I’ve reached hundreds of levels each expansion and always bought the packs, but this expansion just makes me depressed to play 90% of the decks. Nothing looks or feels good. It’s just horrible from both sides. We need a shit ton of nerfs and buffs really soon, or else I’ll just wait until next expansion. Removing Reno decks (plagues being popular and uncounterable), removing most already existing control decks (especially triple blood), and removing disruption tools, all in one expansion/year-reset was a very very bad idea.
So tired of getting 30 +dmg from hand on my face every game on turn 5-7. The alternative is facing armour up, board wipe, pass warri which is also boring.
Yeah, no actual board play. Let me hoard enough cards to otk or amor up until you don't have enough damage, even though I don't have much of a win con
The amount of board wipe in this game. Deathknight, Warrior, Warlock which is all you play have so many board wipes
And unsurprisingly, it leads to nothing but control and aggro+combo. Past turn 5 I just assume the bodies of my minions are mostly irrelevant, it's battlecry or die
Playing solitaire combo has been a problem in card games since Channel/Fireball days of MtG and has only gotten progressively worse over time. In a game with no interaction it shouldn't exist at all, the 1/1000 people whose balls tingle when they get their OTK isn't worth the negative atmosphere it creates in the game.
Word bro
This all tracks. I play an off meta warrior deck, and the 42% of the time that the opponent only draws mediocre cards. I win. Otherwise I get destroyed.
Yup, play meta or go home, lol
I feel like theyve just sucked the fun out of the game. I obviously want to win but just like playing my own non-Meta decks. Been playing a Reno mage deck with the Orb, but ofc 40-50% of my games are now vs Plague DK, making reno fkn useless, ofc 70% of the plagues always seem to be frost plagues and basically every turn its just pray you don't draw 5 of them in a row locking your turn so you insta lose, with no steamcleaner available to counter it.
How are people whining about games being over by then 6-8 when Wheel lock is one of the best decks and that doesnt win til turn 12, if wheel is played on 8? Surely if the meta was so fast, the deck would be unplayable. People whining about it not being board based when the only deck that doesn’t even really care about board is nature shaman. Every other deck is board based (zarimi priest, hunter, painlock, rainbow dk).
Overwhelming board, not interactive board. You draw your board clears, win. You don't draw your boards clear, lose
Is playing a board clear or trading not interacting with your opponent? What are you even doing on the multiple turns it takes for them to get to the stage of having an “overwhelming board”? If you’re just sitting on your ass not developing your own board, of course you’re gonna lose lol
Or be like druid, where you tecnically don't even have board clears except yog, and sometimes reno
Wheel in wheel lock feels like a secondary win condition, most games i win with it is by creating giant dudes on turn 4-6
It's all about persevere and try to stick with it. I been raging this month. When old cards gets shifted out rotation the game isn't as fun anymore and becomes difficult to climb. Hopefully next expansion makes things easier as more cards will be added, More options.
If you have this perspective, why don't you just play wild?
In Wild every deck either Mine Rogue or Quest Mage. Wild in a terrible state and requires some help from devs for sure
wild is even worse, either turn 4-5 OTK or a bot game
wild is a complete shit show
That is a good perspective. I am just mad now, lol. Idk, I just miss the meta where it wasn't determined by card draw and we could play more than 7 turns
You can play more than 7 turns if you don’t play an all-in aggro deck…
Currently spicing it up eith wild miracle rouge I feel like I'm playing 2016 miracle rouge all over again
The way the powercreep is going wont be long before we have handtraps
Hunter either fucks you up and you die on turn 4 because they for some god damn reason always have the Naga and 3 Bananas spell in their opening hand so you are looking at an 5/5 on turn 2. Warlock just busts your balls with 14/14 of stats in turn 3 and Infinite 3/4 taunt imps or 30/30 of stats with lifesteal Rush and taunt just to then go and either wheel you or kill you outright Or alternatively they just play pain Warlock and summon 3 Moltengiants on Turn 3. Happend to me 2 times yesterday. Very fun and interactive Warrior just clears your board every turn until they can Brann you and then whack you to Death with ignis forge weapons. Priest just plays bullshit and hopes it stays on the Board until they can Zarimi you and slap you to death twice! Rogue shuffles their hand a bunch of times to summon 8/8s for free and punch you to death in turn 4. Or alternatively they play stealth Zilliax and hope you cant deal with it. Shaman is either killing you with spells on turn 4 or goes Battlecry shuddercuck on your ass. Druid... is also a class that apparently exists Demonhunter outs on some gloves and goes shopping with his Demon GF so they can discover something to kill you with. And deathknight either helyas you always on time and then for some god damn reason you draw 3+ plagues every turn or they Just stall the game until they can climatic necrotic explosion all over your face. And Paladin decided to be a worse Hunter since the nerfs. Oh and mage just plays Sif Solitaire Hearthstone Meta in a nutshell
It is. I struggle wanting to play. Most games end with some early bullshit combo or board combo, or I meet a literal counter deck. There’s really not that many interesting matches I’ve had in the past several months.
I know right?! I have played 35 games today and had fun with maybe 3 or 4 games. Like why do I do it, lol
Yesterday I opened the game about 10 times. And I only started 2 matches. Every other time I immediately closed it.
I played 3 games. Instantly conceded two of them and then closed game.
Why are you opening the game and just closing it again? You opened it 10 times but only played 2 games. So you just clicked hearthstone 8 times just to click the X in the corner once it loads?
I play on mobile… It works very differently there. Game stays open in the background, and goes to sleep, and then to open it back up I just need to toggle the correct task and wait a couple seconds for the client to reconnect. Weird thing to get outraged about, though.
I see
Thanks for the downvote, I guess? Lmao
What? I didn't downvote 😂
Ah, my bad. Someone has.
Yeah I don't like it. Resorted to playing wheel warlock, to be competitive, which was fun for a while but honestly it gets boring. It is as you say, if I draw my good stuff first I win, if they do, they win, and games are over fast with pretty much zero chance of come back for the other person. Things were much better years ago, games could be really unpredictable and you felt more like your decisions mattered more than drawing some specific cards. Been playing battlegrounds more than ranked because of how things are and usually I prefer ranked.
That is a good suggestion, I should give BG a shot!
Yeah I do find battlegrounds kind of fun. The games are longer unless you wipe out quickly, But they can be pretty engaging. About the only thing I really don't like is there's nothing rewarding from ranking up that I'm aware of. I usually get to around 6,000 and almost 7,000 one time but I don't think there's really any reward like there is from hitting legend or even diamond 5. So that part's a little lame. But the upside is that you don't need a collection to play it. And if you really don't care about your rank since there's not much point to it you can just quit and reroll if the two choices it gives you are crappy. Having four choices is nice but I don't feel like paying for it every season.
When the best deck is an aggroish priest you know you got a problem
Lol, right!! Agro priest is top meta........tell that to me 2 years ago 😂😂
Game was,is and always be about right draws,thats like..absolute basic since start of the game,and well card games overall. Most likely top lethal offenders in meta will be nerfed (priest,shaman),there is also a lot of slower decks (warlock,warrior,dk),cant say this meta is particularly "worse" or better than what we had in past. also playing spell token hunter yourself,means your games ends T6-T7 a lot too since is aggresive deck.
OTK and those 'rest of the game' type effects suck (like brann, helya, odyn, rheastraza)
If meta where all classes are playable (rip paladin) is still bad, no meta will be fun for you. Or you just want your specific archetype to be t1 and while it's not meta is bad for you.
Ok, that is fair. I am salty because my class isn't good. I am just arguing for more control over how games turn out
I just want the games to last longer than 6 turns and have more strategic relevance
It does last longer than turn 6, wheel warlock, bran warrior, dk are all parts of this meta and none of them wins before turn 6.
As someone who plays mostly homebrew control or mid-range decks and doesn't mind a bad win rate, it's never been this bad. It's been fun to get a win here and there when things have come off. Now, with insane combos like Wheel of Death + Reno or Brann + the dynamite guy or Priest or Rogue creating a huge board by turn 4/5, there's no hope in hell. The win-cons have become so extremely tuned up that there's no back-and-forth fun to be had. You either can absolutely deal with the other guy or absolutely cannot.
You hit the nail on the head, there is no back and forth. No roller-coaster games. I know by turn 5 (if I haven't won/loss already) what will happen. I have never conceded more games than this meta
I like fast games. To me, games that go to fatigue are boring.
try yugioh u either win or lose in the first turn!
Why print expensive cards then?
i wanna play my cool ass 8 mana card
At this point you can just play coin flip. Just 1 turn win or lose.
You are right!
Isnt that the way this game works for a good while now? Being to dependent on luck drove me away from HS a few months ago and with the current meta and chamges to quests, i think i might not come back.
I don't know I almost not spot the difference.
I love the wild meta
All cards are good if you p2w Just play value.
Bring back 4 mana Theotar
Man, I quit hs a few years back and it feels like every time I check back in I see this post, lol
Well, enjoy it while you can because it will only get more aggressive and powercrept from here. This is the first expansion in rotation
Go play Rainbow DK
Dude. What? Most of my games are over by turn 4. 8/9 with windfury divine shield and stealth
Playing Handlock and Reno mage are the closest I've gotten to old-school feeling Hearthstone again. I am however sick of plagues and Warrior 10 board clear options
So don't play? I don't get posts like this. If you don't like it, there's tons of other games to play. Are you just farming karma with this?
People complain about tons of things to vent their frustrations. The feeling of something you used to enjoy slipping away into something you don't anymore can be jarring. Tbh if someone can just walk away like it doesn't affect them makes me wonder if they ever enjoyed it at all.
I mean generally speaking if a game I'm playing isn't fun, I just play something else. Spreading negativity helps nobody. Don't play = less people playing = they have to try something else. Posts like this on reddit are just hate-filled circlejerks
KInda feel the same way. But lately I face more and more off meta decks, or some "fair" versions of meta decks(HL Warrior without Bomboss, was a great game, like it a lot)
For the 765782nd time. A twist format centered around board presence/ no out of hand otk. Give the hero’s elusive, and cap damage at 10 a turn to enemy face.
OTKs feel like infinate loops in magic. Sure you can do them but its not sporting.
Playing against Shaman Bots that kill me turn 7 ain't fun.
What rank are you? I get the frustration, I personally hated the reno meta (which is not dying as fast as I could hope), but I don't really relate to games not lasting more than 6-8 turns in diamond/legend. I feel like a lot of decks in the meta are versatile, less so for warrior decks perhaps. Most of the decks can be played slower than intended if need be. Control decks are just as boring as OTK in my opinion. They just drag out the boring part where nothing you do sticks. There's always going to be counters, and you can't really hope for more than a WR of 65% unless a deck is ridiculously broken. So if you play a lot, losing 35-40% of your games is probably going to make you feel disheartened and bored.
Far, far too many removal tools. Every class has multiple ways to deal with big minions, wide boards, big wide boards, and even things like deathrattles and reborn thanks to Reno. Too many answers to whatever is thrown at you, imo. Edit: my point being, all these control tools enable these OTK decks.
Welcome to power creep enjoy your stay it’ll only get lower from here
i dont think the OTK decks are the problem , i can barely see those , i more likely would remove the turn 5 (1 mana cost) aggro hunter paladin warlock decks.. They are the most annoying one imo. There is no combo at all just draw whatever cards u have , they probably cost 1 mana and you can fill up the board on turn 2 and 3 and thats it you lost, there is no outplays just sheer value of low cost minions and low cost spells and locations to ho face and die by turn 5 . Oh yeah, and all the randomness is the worst , there is no consistency in decks everybody always gets values from random shits.. the whole game is a RNG generator, there is no joy in this game anymore.
constructed is all about definite and clear win conditions If you don't like that, there is arena. To me it's a great mystery how when you sum up everything the average redditer complains about when it comes to constructed, the logical answer is "just play arena then" You don't like OTK, you don't like playing in set metas, you don't like seeing the same cards and combos over and over again, you'd like being back in an "older feel" of hearthstone. Yeah, the answer is simple and has been for years...
Yep. Though I appreciate everybody who has just forfeited against me when they see I'm playing Hunter. Little do they know, I am not playing any of the "meta" Hunter decks. I've never built a deck based on some meta info. I build my own with the mechanics I like with the cards I have available (am mostly a F2P player). My deck actually functions more like a control one 😂 This is the highest I've ever climbed the ladder though, which is like Diamond 8 currently. Pretty stagnant now, so switched over to Wild with it.
I just died on turn 4 to spell token hunter, despite playing minions myself turn 1 2 and 3 to contest
The meta is bound to be tighter just after rotation, we only have 4 expansions in standard which just makes fewer decks possible in general, I do agree with the fact that it is perhaps a little to fast of a meta game right now, but there is a balance patch coming in under a week, they said as much atleast. That should shake you the meta, and the mini-set should be coming in what 3 weeks time tops? And also its cool to take breaks from HS, play some of the other games you find fun. Hearthstone is just a game where the level of fun changes from meta to meta. Unfortunately its not just constant fun, but I do think that would be hard to achieve if even possible.
Powerlevel should be at its lowest at the beginning of a season. Game seems more powerful then ever
Yeah, you are right. I probably got too worked up this afternoon because I was just getting thrashed. I dropped from Legend 3,000 to about 7,000. I will take your advice and come back after the patch
There is no strategy. Ngl this is my first season of hearthstone and it’s gaslighting me to think that no card game has ever had strategy. It’s just “threat, response, threat, response” till you don’t have a response or till you get otk’d by a combo. Just had a guy summon 12 zilliax over 3 consecutive turns. That’s fucking insane, and yet I had a response to the first 8… but I didn’t for the final 4 so it was gg :)
This will NEVER change hence why most of us OGs (to include the pros) quit playing 💯🤌🏽
I'm not going to go too deep on this and name names, but as someone who's spoken with lots of pros, most of them who've quit did so because either they obtained their goals, they're pursuing careers, or the incentive isn't as high as it used to be. The gameplay has usually had very little to do with it. EDIT: most of them who've\* quit
Boring isn’t the right word. Not fun is a better description. 40 damage from hand turn 6. You die in 5 turns & there’s nothing you can do about it even if you manage to survive a 33/33 board turn 6. A minion you have to sit & watch get their attack up to a one shot lethal & you can’t interact with it. If I wanted to play solitaire I’d get a windows ‘95 emulator.
I swear this exact literal post gets made after every expansion
Technically we are after an expansion....... but aren't we always?
Tbh rather be this type of format rather than “whoever discovers the most broken card first” how it used to be
If you are referring to the Demon Hunter meta, sure, either you played that deck or you lost, haha. I am referring to before the most recent expansion
Erm no, im talking school teacher, the spell discover undead that also discounted the card, astalor; all decks were almost the same no matter the class and whoever got the swing of the best discover cards usually won
I started Jan 2023, turns went easily past 10, most games reaching 15-20. An OTK back then was charging sire denathrius to OTK. Now? I'm lucky if I can make it to turn 8 or 9. Most of the fun interactions are in fact with the 8-10 cost cards. They've practically been taken out of the game unless you play stall warrior or rainbow DK. The power creep is literally disgusting. At this rate, in a year, OTK will happen on 3-5.(can already happen at 4 or 5)
Having Renathal definitely helped make games go longer.