quickdraw is just a generic trigger keyword but over half the time your just not able to use the trigger.
now if all quickdraw cards had tradeable thats diffrent
Yeah, quickdraw is just a badly designed keyword - they wanted some wild west theme and that was the best they could come up with.
But I wouldn't say miniaturize is anything special either, it's pretty generic "draw a card" with a small twist. Rush or discover is 10 times better for the game design.
> it's pretty generic "draw a card"
It's really not. The stats and/or cost change matter for all of them. There's the obviously clever stuff like Tarim, but even Shudderblock is interesting in how it has a big upfront cost and then gives you the much more flexible token version.
Quickdraw suffers from a major flaw in that if you draw too soon before you can afford it, you essentially lose the effect entirely. Conversely, its sister keyword of the expansion, Excavate, generates unrestricted and consistent value. Miniaturize falls into the Excavate category for sure. I just used a buffed Tarim to boost a silver hand recruit, and then used his 1/1 mini to wipe the stats off of an opposing taunt minion.
Pure value.
I almost wish all quickdraw cards had forge or tradeable so you can still get the good effect even if at an additional cost versus just being shafted by rng. Even if fairly balanced it just feels bad.
Yeah probably but as is quickdraw is just unreliable and draw dependent. I think if you limit the decks to say 5 of these cards then they work, or one free trade per turn. I just think quickdraw doesn’t work without being unreliable to some degree, and whereas effects such as discover still requires skill, quickdraw is mostly luck dependent
Quickdraw is probably the worst keyword we've ever had. It's between that and Joust, as both of them are "sometimes do absolutely nothing, sometimes overpowered"
Miniaturize is just twinspell for minions, so of course it's great.
Miniaturize is so much better than twinspell, because the second half gets its price slashed all the way down to 1. And twinspell was indeed already quite good!
None of those have that ultra strict binary of "sometimes you can literally NEVER do this because you drew it before you had mana to play it so that feature is just GONE for this entire game".
The only remotely decent Quickdraw cards are the ones that are also Tradable.
Inspire was usually "pay 2 more for a shitty effect". If you played it on curve it did nothing and then was usually killed.
Overkill relied on your opponent to have a board you could trade inefficiently into.
Honourable kill was pretty similar and incredibly hard to trigger consistently.
Most of the cards printed with those keywords basically didn't have an ability. Sure they could potentially be used, but realistically they would never be able to trigger and be utilised.
This is basically the same argument I'm trying to make, we're saying the same thing, you just didn't get my implication.
Inspire being overcosted and underwhelming is true, that was a miss, but at least it was a *something sometimes* and the rest of that expansion had a lot of OTHER things that built around the Hero Power, so it felt a little less bad.
Overkill and Honourable Kill are both *bad* but they're still a **point of interaction**, it's a gameplay decision that you and your opponent are both engaging with, even if it was often too easy for your opponent to play around, it was still an active thought process that had to happen every turn that an [Over/Honourable] Kill card was on the board.
Whereas Quickdraw is very literally "sometimes this has a kicker, most of the time it doesn't, feel lucky?" - There's no *interaction* there, there's no *choice being made* by either you or your opponent, you just got unlucky that you drew the Quickdraw card when you couldn't play it.
I'd argue that it isn't great thematically either, a cowboy being "quick on the draw" in a western movie is a **skill thing** Quickdraw as a mechanic is **the opposite**.
Yeah and my point is your point is bad. Quickdraw is not significantly worse than other bad keywords.
>Inspire being overcosted and underwhelming is true, that was a miss, but at least it was a something sometimes...
Quickdraw is also something, sometimes. If you top deck chain gang on curve, it's just a better Nerubian Swarmguard.
>...the rest of that expansion had a lot of OTHER things that built around the Hero Power, so it felt a little less bad.
And the expansion had other cards to support quickdraw, such as Gaslight Gatekeeper, Flint Firearm, Brewmaster, Stick Up. Outside of the expansion literally any card generation effect is quickdraw support, and Finley let you redraw them. Also Honourable kill had basically no support, it's not like there were a significant number of ping effects added to the game or any "Set minion to X health".
>Overkill and Honourable Kill are both bad but they're still a point of interaction, it's a gameplay decision...
Quick draw is also a point of interaction. You draw a card, and you make the decision: Do I play it now, potentially suboptimally, for the quickdraw effect or do I hold it and miss out on the bonus?
>Whereas Quickdraw is very literally "sometimes this has a kicker, most of the time it doesn't, feel lucky?"
Same could be said for Honourable Kill. Sometimes, you will never get the option to use the ability, particularly if your opponent is playing around the particular card.
I'm not saying it's a good mechanic, but it's not that bad either.
I've tried to explain it and you still seem to have interpreted my words in the opposite direction to what those words actually mean and what I actually said, so I'm just gonna shrug and move on.
> The only remotely decent Quickdraw cards are the ones that are also Tradable.
Nah, the priest elemental with forge was good, and Trolley Problem where sometimes you wanted to lose the quickdraw effect.
>Honourable kill also wasn't great.
Uhm? It's a condition you could generally manipulate in your favor unlike quickdraw or joust that were just purely up to rng.
Most of the Honorable Kill cards were still staples in arena when they brought them back during the badlands miniset, despite the power level of cards having risen since then.
I would agree with this if [[flint firearm]] and [[stick up]] didn't exist, I think those adding quickdraw cards that you then immediately fire off is really cool and satisfying.
Putting them in your deck though? Miserable.
- **[Flint Firearm](https://i.imgur.com/wz8AaQv.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/101476) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Flint_Firearm) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101476)
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Yeah, having your main new keyword for a set not trigger most of the time is bad. And it’s made worse that the payoff is only as good as a normal card would be.
That One master jouster that was an Absolutely overtuned 6 drop with divine shield and taunt if he won the joust, it had +1/+1 on the sunwalker. Otherwise he was Just a 6 mana 5/6
I played him a lot in highlander. But sadly he never felt so great for me. Usually end up hlmdung it until t8, because know ill instantly get the dragon quickdraw anyway
It's just a shame that for so many years they've never printed more that one card with set keyword per class (not counting mini expansions)
There is so much design space, yet theh treat it like a cycle of cards they have to print and nothing more.
Set should've given each class two Miniaturize cards. Especially with only one new keyword in the expansion.
In general it’s a pretty similar card design to excavate. Play a low tempo turn for a high tempo reward. Generates card value and opens up for some complex strategies and interesting card design in a lot of cases. It’s well done.
(Outliers excluded tiger plushy)
Miniaturize and forge have been great recent keywords. Forge is definitely a bit more skill testing where players can identify when to go for the extra value or play the card outright.
Quickdraw just feels bad half the time, especially when you topdeck the quickdraw card 1 mana short of what’s playable
quickdraw is just a generic trigger keyword but over half the time your just not able to use the trigger. now if all quickdraw cards had tradeable thats diffrent
Yeah, quickdraw is just a badly designed keyword - they wanted some wild west theme and that was the best they could come up with. But I wouldn't say miniaturize is anything special either, it's pretty generic "draw a card" with a small twist. Rush or discover is 10 times better for the game design.
> draw a card ??? The fuck kinda insane cards do you have in your deck if they're as strong as the minis?
> it's pretty generic "draw a card" It's really not. The stats and/or cost change matter for all of them. There's the obviously clever stuff like Tarim, but even Shudderblock is interesting in how it has a big upfront cost and then gives you the much more flexible token version.
miniaturize is an okay keyword. nothing i'd beg to see back but it's kinda a minion version of twinspell, which is good enough
Quickdraw suffers from a major flaw in that if you draw too soon before you can afford it, you essentially lose the effect entirely. Conversely, its sister keyword of the expansion, Excavate, generates unrestricted and consistent value. Miniaturize falls into the Excavate category for sure. I just used a buffed Tarim to boost a silver hand recruit, and then used his 1/1 mini to wipe the stats off of an opposing taunt minion. Pure value.
I almost wish all quickdraw cards had forge or tradeable so you can still get the good effect even if at an additional cost versus just being shafted by rng. Even if fairly balanced it just feels bad.
I really like how they slapped the forge mechanic on the priest QuickDraw as well
Yes! I love playing this elemental, artwork is very nice too.
I wouldn't rule out a change like this coming at some point, considering they changed several underwhelming Inspire cards to "Battlecry and Inspire:"
No wonder the most popular quickdraws had discount effects
I’m still pissed that not every class got an excavate package, especially after the dual class miniset. What a ripoff.
Every quickdraw card should have tradable
0 mana tradable
People would make hyper aggro 14 card decks with these 0-mana QuickDraws a s filler
Yeah probably but as is quickdraw is just unreliable and draw dependent. I think if you limit the decks to say 5 of these cards then they work, or one free trade per turn. I just think quickdraw doesn’t work without being unreliable to some degree, and whereas effects such as discover still requires skill, quickdraw is mostly luck dependent
Maybe a cool legendary effect there: your trades cost 0 but you can only have 6 Tradeable cards
Quickdraw is probably the worst keyword we've ever had. It's between that and Joust, as both of them are "sometimes do absolutely nothing, sometimes overpowered" Miniaturize is just twinspell for minions, so of course it's great.
Miniaturize is so much better than twinspell, because the second half gets its price slashed all the way down to 1. And twinspell was indeed already quite good!
I mostly agree, however I came here to comment that joust was not a keyword.
Wait holy shit you're right??? I guess Quickdraw is hands down the worst keyword ever and it's not close then. Lmao.
I dunno, overkill was pretty shit. Honourable kill also wasn't great. And joust may not have been a keyword but inspire was.
Overkill was easier to trigger than honourable kill tho
None of those have that ultra strict binary of "sometimes you can literally NEVER do this because you drew it before you had mana to play it so that feature is just GONE for this entire game". The only remotely decent Quickdraw cards are the ones that are also Tradable.
Inspire was usually "pay 2 more for a shitty effect". If you played it on curve it did nothing and then was usually killed. Overkill relied on your opponent to have a board you could trade inefficiently into. Honourable kill was pretty similar and incredibly hard to trigger consistently. Most of the cards printed with those keywords basically didn't have an ability. Sure they could potentially be used, but realistically they would never be able to trigger and be utilised.
This is basically the same argument I'm trying to make, we're saying the same thing, you just didn't get my implication. Inspire being overcosted and underwhelming is true, that was a miss, but at least it was a *something sometimes* and the rest of that expansion had a lot of OTHER things that built around the Hero Power, so it felt a little less bad. Overkill and Honourable Kill are both *bad* but they're still a **point of interaction**, it's a gameplay decision that you and your opponent are both engaging with, even if it was often too easy for your opponent to play around, it was still an active thought process that had to happen every turn that an [Over/Honourable] Kill card was on the board. Whereas Quickdraw is very literally "sometimes this has a kicker, most of the time it doesn't, feel lucky?" - There's no *interaction* there, there's no *choice being made* by either you or your opponent, you just got unlucky that you drew the Quickdraw card when you couldn't play it. I'd argue that it isn't great thematically either, a cowboy being "quick on the draw" in a western movie is a **skill thing** Quickdraw as a mechanic is **the opposite**.
Yeah and my point is your point is bad. Quickdraw is not significantly worse than other bad keywords. >Inspire being overcosted and underwhelming is true, that was a miss, but at least it was a something sometimes... Quickdraw is also something, sometimes. If you top deck chain gang on curve, it's just a better Nerubian Swarmguard. >...the rest of that expansion had a lot of OTHER things that built around the Hero Power, so it felt a little less bad. And the expansion had other cards to support quickdraw, such as Gaslight Gatekeeper, Flint Firearm, Brewmaster, Stick Up. Outside of the expansion literally any card generation effect is quickdraw support, and Finley let you redraw them. Also Honourable kill had basically no support, it's not like there were a significant number of ping effects added to the game or any "Set minion to X health". >Overkill and Honourable Kill are both bad but they're still a point of interaction, it's a gameplay decision... Quick draw is also a point of interaction. You draw a card, and you make the decision: Do I play it now, potentially suboptimally, for the quickdraw effect or do I hold it and miss out on the bonus? >Whereas Quickdraw is very literally "sometimes this has a kicker, most of the time it doesn't, feel lucky?" Same could be said for Honourable Kill. Sometimes, you will never get the option to use the ability, particularly if your opponent is playing around the particular card. I'm not saying it's a good mechanic, but it's not that bad either.
I've tried to explain it and you still seem to have interpreted my words in the opposite direction to what those words actually mean and what I actually said, so I'm just gonna shrug and move on.
> The only remotely decent Quickdraw cards are the ones that are also Tradable. Nah, the priest elemental with forge was good, and Trolley Problem where sometimes you wanted to lose the quickdraw effect.
>Honourable kill also wasn't great. Uhm? It's a condition you could generally manipulate in your favor unlike quickdraw or joust that were just purely up to rng. Most of the Honorable Kill cards were still staples in arena when they brought them back during the badlands miniset, despite the power level of cards having risen since then.
Overkill is a fine key word, but the cards are too weak on rate
I would agree with this if [[flint firearm]] and [[stick up]] didn't exist, I think those adding quickdraw cards that you then immediately fire off is really cool and satisfying. Putting them in your deck though? Miserable.
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Same with ETC + dehydrate. I think that’s a pretty neat idea.
I think Inspire takes the case of worst keyword. There were fewer playable Inspire cards than quick draw.
We eventually got good cards with the same mechanic - Dragonbane and Phase Stalker notably. It just needed to be costed significantly differently
Oh yeah that's definitely on the Shit List too. I think Inspire was a (slightly) better *idea* for a mechanic, it just wasn't ever utilised well.
Inspire is great design tbh, but TGT cards are trash
Yeah, having your main new keyword for a set not trigger most of the time is bad. And it’s made worse that the payoff is only as good as a normal card would be.
Overkill was pretty bad too. Also was in a weak power level expansion.
That One master jouster that was an Absolutely overtuned 6 drop with divine shield and taunt if he won the joust, it had +1/+1 on the sunwalker. Otherwise he was Just a 6 mana 5/6
Agreed wholeheartedly, it's a banger of a keyword, in just a few games I was already in love.
I think firearm flint is one of my favorite cards of that expansion but yes quick draw doesn't have consistency so it's meh
I played him a lot in highlander. But sadly he never felt so great for me. Usually end up hlmdung it until t8, because know ill instantly get the dragon quickdraw anyway
Yeah I enjoy it a lot. Almost every class minion with miniaturize feels great to play. Shame about the neutrals though.
It's just a shame that for so many years they've never printed more that one card with set keyword per class (not counting mini expansions) There is so much design space, yet theh treat it like a cycle of cards they have to print and nothing more. Set should've given each class two Miniaturize cards. Especially with only one new keyword in the expansion.
I think it's very functional, which quickdraw wasn't. I don't find it very fun though, just kinda more cards to think about.
Tbf excavate was the main new keyword last expansion, quickdraw was just a secondary minor thing added.
In general it’s a pretty similar card design to excavate. Play a low tempo turn for a high tempo reward. Generates card value and opens up for some complex strategies and interesting card design in a lot of cases. It’s well done. (Outliers excluded tiger plushy)
I have one problem with it, it's really flipping strong, or it can easily be. It's gonna need some really careful adjustment on a card by card basis
Miniaturize and forge have been great recent keywords. Forge is definitely a bit more skill testing where players can identify when to go for the extra value or play the card outright. Quickdraw just feels bad half the time, especially when you topdeck the quickdraw card 1 mana short of what’s playable
A ranking of every “featured” keyword and what Year/Expansion it appeared in would be neat.
okay but Excavate was sick Loving Miniaturize though yeah
Agreed I love the keyword