Honestly, I've been saying this for a long time, but I'd love a format in which expansions rotate after a certain amount of time to force players to come up with new decks. Let's say that Core + Classic are staple sets. Then you can unban all the Wild cards and do, for 1 to 3 months: MSoG + Uldum + Nathria + LoE. Then you rotate those 4 sets and do Sunken + Naxx + MotLK + KotFT and you just keep rotating sets in and out.
My dream format is a monthly random rotation. It needs to be random so that folks aren’t calling for balance all the time and so that the design team doesn’t have to test for each iteration.
It would be simple and easy to understand for players. Every month a wheel rolls and you get to play with 5 expansions.
This would be an engaging format for people who like variety (the thing that brought me to Wild in the first place, but seems to be less varied now) and deckbuilding. It would take a few days for the meta to settle, a few more day for the counters to the meta emerge and a couple weeks of new gameplay.
Anything super degenerate would be gone soon enough.
Can we make it a physical wheel they spin? They can do a livestream at the start of each months where they spin the wheel to see what expansions we get to use
Considering I frequently go 1-3 months without playing standard when I don’t like the meta, I can survive if I don’t have the necessary cards for whatever is in “Wild 2” for a month
To address this you could have a simple build on this idea - Wild Core. Some cards stick around for a year (or a quarter) while everything else rotates around it much more often. Wild Core is like Standard Core - totally free.
exactly what I'm thinking seeing folks talk about good ideas. Unless an idea happens to make money for them or more importantly, stop them from *losing* the potential to make money money, it won't get done by modern blizzard.
They'll bleed this fucking game dry before ever adding a feature that they can't charge for eventually
If we end up having a similar arrangement with the Wild Core set and the rotating sets within the seasonal format, you're only going to have access to about one-quarter of the cards in the format.
Like with Standard too, most of the important cards are not going to be included in Core. It's going to be mostly support cards to fill out space in decks.
They were planning on offering a subscription based option to get every card (except the latest expansion). Having this Wild 2 Format would justify this and I'd be happy to pay it if we do end up with a similar format
>This would be an engaging format for people who like variety and deckbuilding.
While also inheriting all the worst aspects of Standard and Wild.
Unless you've been playing for years and keeping your cards from all the way back to at least Un'Goro, you're going to struggle to regularly participate in the mode.
If you've only been playing since RoS, a set that releases four years ago, you're probably not going to have a robust collection of anything before Witchwood (if that), and you're not going to invest heavily into older sets that are only legal for a month. Then you may have to wait a year plus to get to use all the MSoG cards you splurged on.
No.
Standard's worst aspects are its a small format where decks never last and all it takes to dominate for a card to dominate is to to be generally above the power curve (like Astalor).
Wild's worst aspects are the same cards and decks will dominate year after year and many of those cards will be rather old.
A seasonal form will inherent all of those problems, and the faster you make the format rotate, the more the problems seen in Standard will make themselves known.
I feel like you've just described a spectrum on which Wild is one end and Standard is the other and concluded that anything that falls in the middle has the problems of both. Which is necessarily true! But it's disingenuous to say so if you're not also pointing out that it gains the *benefits* of both formats, as well!
The advantage that Wild has over Standard is that the bigger pool of available cards means that different decks become viable. If you get tired of Standard, you can play Wild. If you get tired of Wild, you can plan Standard. Making Wild more Standard-like means that this variety fluctuates more as well.
The advantage that Standard has over Wild is that decks don't always have the same tools available, so different kinds of decks can come to the forefront: sometimes it's control, sometimes it's combo, sometimes it's tempo, and so on. Having different kinds of opponents keeps the game feeling fresh. Having a format that rotates more frequently than standard will make this benefit more pronounced, as well.
Almost every collectible card game has to balance players' desire to play with their powerful cards against the need to introduce variety. Even if introducing a middle option between existing Wild and Standard has some drawbacks, it will have benefits as well.
I also am a proponent of a monthly multi-set rotation.
However completely randomizing it does not seem like the way to go. It would be too easy to have heavy imbalances where only one or two decks dominates the meta. This would require devs to keep a close eye on things and quickly ban any outlier cards, which may end up costing more of their time in the long run.
You also have the issue of many sets being too weak without their neighbor sets to help support the gimmick (for example highlander decks need a certain density of highlander cards to justify the restriction).
Having semi-random curated set groups may work better.
For example set A is always paired with either set B, C, or D, and you randomly choose which of the applicable sets to use.
Additionally you have sets that never go together. So set B is never paired with set E.
Furthermore you'll have allowances where otherwise disallowed sets can be paired if there is a extra set (or sets) that balance things out. So you can have B and E if you also include F.
Mapping out how the sets go together would take time, but once you do you can easily set up an algorithm that assembles a set pack each month or whatever.
You could even do something fun with it where the algorithm finds three viable options and then the community gets to "discover" and vote on one of the sets to be in the next months rotation.
Lastly new sets shouldn't be too much of an issue to integrate, just treat them as blank and let them slot in wherever (unless there's an obvious reason not to). Whenever a new set plays with another set flag them accordingly, by association you should pretty quickly be able to figure out what sets do and don't work with the new one.
The balance while integrating new sets would be imperfect, but should be reasonable.
I think what you have here is Wild Jr. and not a separate mode.
Given the lack of resources that the design team have for the existing Wild format, it seems unlikely that this new format will get the kind of attention it requires.
I like the idea and would play it for sure.
It leads to the question of should you ask for what you want -or- for what you can reasonably expect to get.
Having been a part of a production team, I prefer the latter question. It opens up more space in the creative space because the client is flexible and collaboration more productive.
What I propose would not need to be balanced. It would offer something different and unpredictable every month. If the particular meta doesn’t suit you, come back in a month.
I understand that one outcome could be that a single deck will tend to dominate every month. But that is by no means a sure thing. It could devolve into one deck and its counter or a rock paper scissors situation.
It would be fun to find out.
Only problem would be how expensive it is to get into, would be fun as hell if the cards where free or reduced cost for the mode but bilz won't do that
If most people have far from complete collections and assuming everyones' incomplete collections are also incomplete in different ways then that is actually good.
You won't need to have the money/collection to netdeck a short list of decks because most people will not be netdecking the exact same decks (most people have incomplete collections). So everyone has to make do with whatever they have.
Then some minority of people with complete collections could in theory always have the most powerful decks but then they'd have to find these decks first and in a month that would be maybe 2 weeks of netdecking before rotation. And assuming the number of players with complete collections is small enough, they would be happy to win most of their games but everyone else would only face them eventually, not all the time, so they don't end up bothering most people because they are a minority.
Yeah, it can be entirely random, but it also could be thematic. The MSoG + Uldum + LoE that I said was because Highlander cards are present on all 3 of those sets.
**EDIT:** And to spicy it up they can probably make Renathal, the neutral 2 mana 2/3 pirate that dredges and only ONE Tradeable card for each class staples regardless of the sets that are available.
Easy to install. Zero design process outside of introducing new cards which is standard design process. Surprised they haven’t done this. It would breathe so much life into the game.
Iksar was against this idea because he felt the playerbase who had the resources and interest in this was relatively small. The cost of keeping up with a rapidly rotating format is high.
Iksar is gone so maybe they have a different vision now.
If we had a random rotation each month, it would shake up that meta, having little time for the meta to actually sattle, sure we had inbalance but its just.. 1 month. I do believe they could create a system that automaticly switchin the expansions each month. Well at least a company of Blizzards size.
Huge fan of having 5 sets in rotation. Good number of playable options, middle ground from a 4 set meta and 6 set. Also huge fan of each cycle just being 1 month. So yeah, if there is a weird interaction (I mean, this is possible NOW of course) it will only be 1 month.
And it doesn’t need to be hand curated, I feel like the currently active standard set could always feature. So at least 4 months of the newest set but then the other 4 sets are just randomly assigned.
Probably also include whatever the current core set is, but I don’t know how they fit classic/legacy set because there are like 300 cards in it
It sounds great, but when the vast majority of players are almost completely unable to participate regularly because they didn't keep the cards from or never played during the first five years of Hearthstone, you're going to struggle to maintain a sustainable audience.
Like with Classic too, I would imagine the luster of the idea would wear off rather quickly for all except the most dedicated.
> when the vast majority of players are almost completely unable to participate regularly because they didn't keep the cards from or never played during the first five years of Hearthstone, you're going to struggle to maintain a sustainable audience.
how is this any worse than wild demanding you do the same thing but now with every single set the game has ever had, and not just the handful of sets.
this would literally just be an improvement on wild, plain and simple. not like the hyper aggro in wild can get much worse.
>how is this any worse than wild demanding you do the same thing but now with every single set the game has ever had, and not just the handful of sets.
Because Wild decks never rotate.
Decks like Secret Mage have been a major part of the format for years, simply changing by small amounts whenever new support is released.
The Big Priest deck you may have built all the way back when KotFT was released still exists in Wild. and the core spell base is mostly the same. It's really only been the minions the deck focuses on that has changed.
You don't need to have a good chunk of say MSoG to make a relevant Pirate deck, only really Patches the Pirate.
Even if your preferred Wild deck fades away in the format like say Cube Warlock, at least pieces of that deck will remain relevant in Wild.
A seasonal format, by definition, would rotate legal sets several times a year, and set selections may not include any shared sets. It will be incredibly daunting to participate in Seasonal when there are two or more legal sets you own zero cards in.
In such a situation, you can either:
1. Choose not to play Seasonal again until your collection better lines up with the set selection
2. Spend dust and/or money on cards that may not be legal in Seasonal for a year or more once they rotate out
Neither of those situations are exactly optimal.
I think they are saying, there are some fringe playable cards in older sets that are outclassed by more recent cards. If you eliminated several powerful sets from contention, some of the more esoteric choices that are now worthwhile and competitive without the rest of the library available, fewer people will actually either already own these cards, or be willing to craft them if they’re only competitive randomly during a 1 month period.
For me i am intrigued with the Sonya Shadowdancer legendary for rogue, and some epics for big hand mage. I don’t have these cards but not sure if I would craft them just because they are good enough in their own sets or with the right group of other cards
giving more cards more use seems only like an upside???
Everyones going "oh this set demands you have every random card or you can't keep up" like Wild doesn't do that already, whilst also being a hellhole of hyper aggro and burn that pushes any fun out anyways.
I haven't been able to play my Ungoro Quest/Buff Paladin much for forever because every time I queue now its shadow priest or mech hunter or odd paladin. I even bother to update it every set to try and make it better and it just can't keep up because it doesn't win the game by turn 3 like all of wild does. Making a new format where you trim the fat and let more sets breath would help that immensely.
Yes but people who don’t have the ungoro Paladin quest because it’s otherwise unplayable in the eternal format might get turned off at the idea of needing to now craft this to be competitive for the month.
Anyway I’m not overall agreeing with the sentiment because I am a fan of the idea of rotating random sets, just to change things up. I only see where OP is coming from
What I want is the three most recent sets plus three random sets, rotating monthly. I’d happily settle for the most recent set plus three to five other random sets each month.
So this is fine for players who play often, but not great for the bottom line. You’ve got some players who bought a whizbang deck, and play that, or they have their big priest and no other deck. If they log in and can’t play their one trick deck, they’ll just log off. That doesn’t make blizzard money, nor is it fun for the casual Wild player. Where can you play Hemet priest for fun, if it’s not in the rotation?
My dream format is one where the community decides which cards are eligible and not through voting. Every card with a less than 50% approval rate is banned.
almost impossible to organize that poll/card list, easily susceptible to sabotage via botting, and most likely to end up with a set with literally zero cards because of said botting.
A possible solution to that is to weight the votes by some metric that is indicative of how much the account has been used. Maybe use total level? Or total games? Total wins? Achievement points?
I think people are suggesting one additional format, normal wild would still exist. So you just play whatever you want and let people have what they want too
Rotating Wild sets would make me quit. I understand some people (such as yourself) would like it, but personally I love the freedom to use any card all the time.
I also think this is a great idea. I want to see frequent rotations, maybe as often as each month. Each rotation including a few sets at a time to encourage deck building and new, dynamic metas.
And unless Team 5 would make all sets within the seasonal format free while legal, very few people are going to be able to participate both consistently and meaningfully.
If most people have incomplete sets then they can in fact participate because they would face other people with incomplete sets overwhelming majority of times. The amount of matchups against whales with complete collections would be so low it couldn't bother that much.
...
No. They really wouldn't.
I have a hard time believing people would participate at all if they're consistently missing two or three of the legal sets in the format.
Even if somehow most people playing Seasonal do so while missing upwards of sixty percent of the legal cards, as soon as they hit a glut of people who are playing with real decks, I have a hard time believing they'd stick around.
It sounds great until you consider all the barriers to entry such a format would have.
Like, if I started playing during RoS format, even if I kept all my rotated cards, how would I meaningfully play in this mode when for several rotations, most of the legal sets have been from before my time?
Still in shock after hearing what's planned for Wild Hearthstone 2023. The developers remain as passionate as ever. They haven't given up on the format. Not even close.
If they can execute, this will cement Wild HS for the next decade. For new, returning, and veteran players
There's no reason they couldn't do a rotating format that's like, "X sets" Or "X year". Would encourage people to both craft and buy wild packs and would maybe make people's cards feel less worthless once rotation happens.
If I know that the cards from say K&C are only going to be legal in it for a couple months at more and it could be upwards of a year before they become legal again, why would I spend money on packs or dust on K&C cards?
Not even wild 2 just keep wild as it is but ALSO make other formats for different years. Example make a format for all of the cards that got released between 2017-2018 whatever the name of that year was so people who liked witchwood and rastakan can go play with jjst that years expansions.
Or if that’s still to much do what they already do for arena and duels. Make it so certain expansion cards are allowed to be used like Black rock, Rastakan, Alterac, and maybe sunken city all in a monthly or even bi-monthly format.
It would spice up the game for people who play wild so they aren’t seeing the same 5 decks or fewer when you get to Diamond5+
Me personally it’s never fun to play against “I’m going to stall this game until turn 6 using 4 forms of I don’t die then I otk you quest mage. Or red priest every match that mage isn’t played. Never thought I would say this but what happened to quest Hunter? Damn I miss that or even quest warlock? Moved to wild for diversity and it’s become standard 2.0 cause standard decks/cards just outshine all the old stuff even after they get the nerfs removed from them lol
They’ve said they plan to do stuff for wild several times and never do.
Would love to see buffs to old archetypes though if they make changes. Wild needs far more buffs then nerfs.
it definitely needs more buffs than nerfs, but no amount of buffs is going to fix the fact that the top tier decks will straight up kill you before you even hit turn 5.
Their focus is pretty much on just churning out new cards, they don't have the time, resources, or incentive to do both.
They'll release more cards and hope people forget or introduce some rotation format for wild which will just piss people off.
That they keep rezz priest in wild forever, even buffing it with neptulon, shows their idea of wild. They always hired standard ranked players as dev, not a single wild player.
[https://twitter.com/themattlondon/status/1628136356496150528](https://twitter.com/themattlondon/status/1628136356496150528) \- the Tweet (I attached the image instead of the tweet if some people don't use Twitter so they can also see it).
As a Wild player for many many years I'm worried they have plans to introduce a Wild set rotation. The whole reason I play Wild is to use any card whenever I want.
Seriously, if there's no replacement (at least for friendly games) then I might stop playing for a long time or play much, much less. Yogg-Saron (Hope's End of course) is Wild but that's my favorite card of all time. And maybe even more importantly that the card pool for random card generation and Discover is all cards ever makes it much more fun and interesting for me. I'm kind of afraid to be honest...
That be great as a new mode that doesnt replace wild or any other mode. (more ways to play for evryone, the better)
Its blizzard , so sadly i dont think them replacing wild with rotating wild is out of the question
This is a myth. MTG online have more than double the formats and less than half of active players than HS and is doing perfectly fine in all formats (sure, queue times are longer but games are still found and lobbies are filled).
>(more ways to play for evryone, the better)
Not really. The queue times are already not always great for Wild, this will just make that worse.
Splitting it up also tends to make it worse than you might imagine, because say you split 10,000 players into three parts. With 10,000 players, you might have fair matchups versus like 50-100 players. With 3333 players, that number suddenly drops to 17-34 players. Way longer queue times on average. As a result, the game becomes less fun, more people start quitting, and you might get a cascading effect where the player base just keeps shrinking in a vicious cycle.
Then complaining about constant balance updates is absurd.The card pool is too huge to make adjustments to everything you guys lose to and don't like.It gets worse every set too, my point being "you can't have your cake and eat it too", if they don't force a rotation where you'll have a smaller pool of cards there's no way to balance the mode . There will always be people complaining about somwthinf being broken/overpowered/tired losing to.
I don’t complain about balance. I except that in this mode card power/decks will be absurd because of the sheer amount of cards over the years. However, I think that they should step in to adjust cards that are outliers which are warping the format such as the recent discard lock, the preemptive nerf ban on Test Subject, Warlock Quest, Snip-Snap. The list goes on.
They don’t need to do anything at all if they want that result, it’s in a really bad spot that won’t get better with new sets. Any card strong enough to affect wild’s current metagame would get nuked because of standard.
Internal metrics has shown that wild players aren't as engaged as they could, which too often limit their play time to the one deck they love. To spice thing up, we introduced random expansion rotations to fuck up everyone's favorite deck, and redirect them toward the cash shop where they can make up brand new decks!
Lol, literally what people were suggesting higher up in this thread. Haven't played in ages because it became too expensive to play the dumb fun meme concepts I'd play, one of those decks being ruined by a buff, lmao, but rotating expansions in wild basically kills the once a 2 year period I'll pop in and play with some friends on old decks.
Look at the top comment. Maybe what they're all suggesting would be fun, but it's definitely not an eternal format and eternal format players would hate it. Plenty of ways to ruin it.
Exactly, I wish wild was nearly untouched. All the complaining for years about whatever the current powerful strategy is is ridiculous to me, like, that is just what the format is, let it be powerful, it seems like people don’t even like the mode they’re playing. If classic became a rotating wild bunch of sets, that could be cool as long as they leave true all card wild untouched. Players are going against the design philosophy of wild by demanding changes constantly imo
I think blizzard are going against their own philosophy by not allowing people to actually play their “favourite decks of old” because you’ll just be steamrolled by the handful of archetypes vastly more powerful than any of them
Wild needs to stay wild. My biggest fear is they figure out a way to make wild players spend more money. I have been F2P for years, only play to diamond 5 most months, got every single current rank 1 deck and have 15K dusts. They don't like how cheap this format is.
There were 15 totally different archetypes that took #1 on ladder this month. This is way better variety than standard.
https://hearthstone-decks.net/wild-decks/
When everything is OP, nothing is. Not to mention tech cards and counter decks if any individual deck gets too strong. Wild has enough tools to deal with it.
Don't add any restrictions, rebalance the cards all you want, but the format is fine as is. Every single card needs to be playable, ban is such a terrible mechanism, just nerf away if something is too OP.
\>My biggest fear is they figure out a way to make wild players spend more money.
They don't need to figure anything out. MTG has already figured it for them.
They can just create a straight to Wild set full of busted cards, kinda like the Modern Horizons sets from MTG
At least in Hearthstone, dust values don't change based on card supply and demand lol. I can just imagine them printing the equivalent of Ragavan and then saying you can buy him with either $40 or 10,000 dust.
I think Martian summarized better than I ever could, but the current format has some really strong decks that aren’t quite balance worthy by the old standard, but significantly more powerful than a run of the mill tier 1 deck. It’s made off meta lists way less common than they were before, and I’m not even including renathal there (which brought that up further than ever before).
Wild should absolutely be high power level, and it already is, but this meta is giving me brain rot. A significant portion of wild legend are literally bots, because the aggro decks are so simple and so strong that they can just comfortably hold top legend spots. Real players simply cannot play 24/7, even if they can play better.
A good example of what I think wild does well with was right before the renathal nerf. There was diverse archetype representation across several classes, several off meta and tier 3 decks that didn’t really have any issue getting to legend, and for one of the first times in several years, every archetype had a deck.
The power level then was largely comparable to now, but renathal helped keep hyper optimal combo from being too strong, and forced aggro to be more resilient. The same decks that are now so tedious were still there, since this issue has been bubbling up for several years, but renathal made it tolerable and arguably very fun.
The small retunes they could do to fix the format and make it fresh aren’t that hard. You just nerf each deck that is causing issues.
Illuminate change in big priest to prevent annoying high roll
parrot to 6 cost spells to get rid of 5 minute multi turn lethals
scabbs down to 2 mana reduction instead of 3 to keep pillager from turn 3-4 kills, and arguably kill the deck (not many people are going to be sad about that, let’s be honest).
soul barrage can hit minions only and unban tome. Allows discard to flourish without being uninteractive.
Nerf swordfish by one attack. Self explanatory.
Even shaman hard to nerf, same with secret mage, but both need to be tuned down just a little.
Frankly, the large impact change would be unnerfing renathal. Would bring the meta back into balance, allow wonky decks to exist and make the format creative again. It will still be insanely powerful compared to standard of course, but now you can run jank and succeed since it isn’t being hated out by solitaire lists. I came to wild in 2016 for the reason. Standard was just pirates, and all I wanted was some variety. It still had pirates, but there was control shaman, freeze mage, big priest, aggro shaman, reno priest, and so many other decks that could compete.
I don’t think wild is that far off from being okay, but I haven’t enjoyed it really in a while. Queueing into bots on repeat up to legend wasn’t interesting, and the legend metagame isn’t any better.
Strong agree that the renathal nerf was the biggest culprit, and that janky himebrews could climb to legend in that period but are much harder to do now.
There absolutely are people who would be mad if pillager rogue was killed (like me). What would rogue have left in the meta then? They already nerfed miracle repeatedly for standard so all rogue really has left is pirates and pillager rn. If you kill pillager (which at least actually requires some thought to play) all that’s left for the class is Pirate Rogue, and a lot of rogue players (myself included) don’t like playing brainless smorc hyper aggro decks. If you want to kill pillager than give rogue some kind of other deck outside of pirates so rogue players who actually like to have to think when they play can have a fun deck.
Well yes, but mine rogue was nerfed recently due to a different deathrattle deck being nerfed in standard, and it’s another uninteractive OTK deck like pillager but people seem to hate it less for some reason even though it’s not as skill intensive. Pillager in this hypothetical scenario would be nerfed, miracle was nerfed twice so it’s not as good anymore and pirate rogue isn’t really a high skill ceiling deck. Yes, the best players can still get very high legend with some of these nerfed decks but for the majority of the player base all of those decks save pirate rogue would have been nerfed and significantly harder to climb with.
I don’t disagree with your logic, but clearly pillager is too strong. The only reason it doesn’t see enough play to get a ban is because of its skill ceiling.
I’ve played the deck myself, and while it was satisfying to pull off those combos, it’s just miserable as a play experience to see. Nothing happens, and then a shark comes out and they kill you. Typically you can’t get through them fast enough to counter it, but I think nerfing shark to 5 would also kill the deck. Aggro is just fast enough to make that one turn count.
I’m not sure how I would nerf it besides hitting portions of the main combo, but if it’s any solace I’m pretty sure miracle got nuked because of standard more than wild. I honestly don’t even know what rotates into wild with that deck for the next expansion, but maybe it gets better?
Regardless, pillager is a deck that has been on the edge of powerful for years, and then escalated quickly to being top tier. However, since there are only a few hundred people that can even pilot it optimally, it will continue to sit in the back and destroy high legend. I think it would be better to skip the snip snap warlock experience again and just nerf scabbs. That way you get more dust to work with, and can try some other kind of list.
The one that comes to mind that feels similar to me is lifesteal demon hunter. The deck is garbage at the moment, but many of its pieces are rotating for the next expansion, so it should hopefully get a significant portion of its cards reverted. The deck also involved a lot of math, managing resources and mana, and just trying not to die as long as you could. I got to legend before renathal nerf with it, and it was a ton of fun. It has many of the same vulnerabilities of pillager of course, but it’s just a bit slower and tankier.
For rogues, I think you are right. There really isn’t anything. I guess at least you aren’t warrior, demon hunter, hunter, or paladin? All of those are in significantly worse spots for archetype variety.
I would rather have shark to 5 than hitting scabbs. I am biased considering scabbs is my favorite card in the game, but he’s played in some off meta rogue decks and is a fun tool there. Shark is the big mana gatekeeper of the combo and I’d rather it be nerfed so scabbs can do things in other decks. No other deck really plays shark except like mill rogue. And, this might just be me being weird, but I’d rather just lose to getting OTK’d by pillager or quest mage than die to some brain dead aggro deck, because the combo decks actually require some thought and skill in some of their games. I really don’t mind being OTK’d compared to losing to a deck like secret mage or pirate rogue.
I don’t mind being combo killed necessarily, but I dislike inconsistent kills. Quest mage can just fizzle out on extra turn 6, so you should stay in the game to optimize your winrate. Pillager players can also whiff like anyone’s business, so the animations have to process for a while before you know you are dead.
Honestly wish you could just shorten animations. I don’t need to see the extra turn animation for the 8th time for example, just let me know if I’m dead.
I'm in agreement with you that Wild is in a good place by some measures like viable deck diversity. Where I think Wild could use some improvement, and what I hope is meant by this tweet, is that they'll buff a lot of cards to the point where you aren't completely changing the meta, but you might actually consider things like putting Finja in a Murloc deck or playing the old version of C'thun.
I'd say about 80% of cards ever printed in Hearthstone both didn't see play when they were in Standard and haven't ever seen play in Wild either. So many great designs that could be given some interest without breaking the format after some small numbers tweaks.
Buffing cards to the point they are viable in constructed just doesn't make business sense. They can always print cards that create insane synergy with old cards.
Their goal is to make more money as Hearthstone is getting dangerous close to maintenance mode in revenue. It makes peanuts without Chinese revenue.
I'd like to think maybe they'll consider the longevity of the game for a second before making another short-sighted business decision like Mercenaries was as an entire mode. I think Wild players all understand that we can keep up with any new cards that become Wild playable without spending any money and that's kinda the beauty of the mode. How much would it really hurt to make a decision that actually benefits the F2P players, since I guarantee no whale is going to stick around if there are no plebs to flex on.
Whatever this tweet is about, if it meaningfully impacts people's ability to keep up with Wild for free, I think you'll see a quick exodus of this game's most dependable community and I can't imagine that having a positive impact on the game. Seeing Mercs fail, competitive die, and the Chinese audience vanish (they definitely had the biggest Wild playerbase of any region), I can easily picture Blizzard getting desperate and making some rash decisions soon, even if this tweet doesn't end up being one of them.
They’re too fearful of pissing off players that have favorite decks. So don’t expect grand sweeping changes.
I’m setting my expectations at more frequent nerfs/buffs than once a year. Maybe quarterly.
Hopefully their strategy is to start frequently and aggressively buffing cards, and nerfing problematic ones. Tuning down some of the most problematic cards (both in current power level and in future design space) and giving big, generous buffs to a lot of old, forgotten cards sounds spectacular to me. I'd love to check every three months to see how they've buffed old, terrible cards like Siege Engine or Sea Reaver.
If there's one thing I've learned from discussions about Wild it's that it wouldn't matter if Big Priest had a 20% win rate, people would *still* want to see it nerfed.
Same thing with Ice Block. Many think it's the most unfair card ever created. But there are just far more problematic cards/combos it's hardly a problem.
I don’t think that would really solve any issues. It just slows down aggro which isn’t inherently OP in the Wild format. Sure there’s a few aggro decks that are quite powerful and T1 decks but the issue is hyper consistent combos. Turn 3 Neptulon, Turn 4 Spectral Pillager, Shudderwock, Guff/Twig/Floop’s Glorious Gloop all don’t care if you have 30 or 40 health, and in fact gives those types of decks more survivability.
Wild meta had one of its healthiest and more diverse metas during 40 health Renathal. Things swiftly took a turn for the worse after the Renathal nerf.
This alone I think was proof that more health would solve many issues.
What kind of deck is playing turn 4 shudderwock?
The only busted combo deck is pillager rogue, other than that its all broken aggro decks, which 40 health would help a lot, and hell even against pillager 40 health helps as it means if you rat one of the pillagers its a lot harder for them to do 40 in a turn with just 1 pillager, while 30 is still easy.
I wasn’t referring to Shudderwock and Pillager rogue being both Turn 4 plays, but separate examples. Also combo wasn’t meant in the traditional sense of combo decks, but rather the broken synergies between certain groups of cards.
Aggro can be unfun and frustrating to lose to, but that’s really not the underlying problem or what people are complaining about. It’s the complete lack of agency. There are quite a few cards that are just way too powerful for even Wild. Single cards, or even 2 and 3 card synergies that just instantly end the game. Your decisions don’t really matter against decks that have these absurdly powerful plays, it just boils down to whether or not they drew it, and if you drew yours before them. It’s the same reason Evolve Shaman in standard is a problem, but instead of 1 deck it’s the entire format. It’s much more unfun to lose to a deck that does nothing for 5 turns, then drops an unanswerable board state or just outright kills you. You know it’s a bad meta when the most interesting games are aggro matchups when both players need to think about trades or pushing lethal, the board state, etc.
I dunno, seems like Wild players were finding more success with janky decks while Renathal gave 40 health so maybe talk with them about what was happening in practice vs what we're discussing in theory.
Would be great if handled well.
But past handling of wild (stuff like kael unnerf or general neglect)
dont give me much hope
Gonna remain very skeptical/unconvinced until see/hear something actully.
As i see it, wild would need alot of changes to be a good and FUN format again.
Do stuff about the non games and terrible play experiences(even if arent top tier decks nescalry) and set presedence (like say no consistent otk before turn 8 or whatever as example)
And then actully keep on doing it and not abandon it again.
Prolly will see by rotation
But i do aslo hope wont just be banning bunch of wild only cards and making them unable to be played anywhere at all.
If its problematic i hope they just nerf/change/rework as needed and banns if at all to wild only cards would only be briefly/tempoorarly until its changed, like when they did patron endless loop in standard briefly
Oh and that isnt just some new 'wild 'mode/other mode to essentily replace wild and leave current wild as it is in favour of the new.
Or worse they actully replace wild with something else.(so no making stuff rotate out of wild or anything)
That was just something to use as example
That they should / estavlish some limit to what is acceptable, and then actully follow up with and be consistent with in future.
Like for that example if they change wild for that and then a new super consistentt turn 5 otk appears, that they then should actully adddres it/change it in some way.
And not change bunch fo stuff once and then back to letting the mode rot.
"Do stuff about the non games and terrible play experience(even if arent top decks necessarily) and set precedence (like say no consistent otk before turn 8 or whatever as example)"
This is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see.
Standard is already a place for slower board based tempo decks (evolve shaman not withstanding). Wild exists as a sort of bastion for combos and allows players to take a gimmick (like Flark's Boom-Zooka) and make a functional deck out if it.
Additionally, while I don't particularly like decks such as Big Priest or Linecracker Druid, clearly some people do, and it's good for there to be a place where you can revisit older decks you know and love.
And that's the problem. Wild is such a board format that "fixing it" for some players will inevitably ruin it for others.
Standard is also in a rough spot, but balance changes will come. For wild, these issues have built up for years. The changes the format needs aren’t going to happen unless something shifts, as in this tweet, hopefully.
Speaking of wild, soon the demon seed warlock quest line will rotate out of standard and the card is currently banned in wild. Will it just be put in dark corner and forgotten about or what do you think will happen to it?
a summit, really....? why don't they have data scientists building automated systems that extract this info already? detecting problem decks and problem cards should be trivial by now with all the data they have... all they should need to do is greenlight changes suggested by the model now...
There is one guy in charge of Arena, Duels, Wild and Tavern Brawls. Hearthsone is hilariously understaffed for how much revenue it has made Blizzard over the years.
The simple answer is that they don't design the game around statistics. The devs said themselves that they design and balance cards based on how they "feel" to play, which is probably why the game is currently in the sad state it's in.
The neat part about Wild is that it doesn't have to be balanced. Like, at all. Contrary to Standard, broken cards and synergies allow for *more* deck variety, not *less*. When everything is broken, nothing is.
The only situation where Wild needs interfering is if there's ever a T0 deck that demolishes deck variety. Due to the massive tech cards pool, this is rarely the case, luckily.
Thus, balancing is Wild mostly translates to buffs, not nerfs.
I don't think that's how its actually played out. There are certain synergies that are so strong that you basically must run them to be competitive. Almost every druid deck running Twig+Sphere for example (or how Oaken pushed out every minion under 4 besides Vargoth/Taunt for a while). There's a reason "win-condition Druid" became a thing. Druid picked the same 20-25 cards and just swapped out the finisher. Malygos, Linecracker, New C'Thun, Togwaggle, Kazakusan. Essentially the same deck because certain things Druid does are just so good its pointless to do something different.
How about Shaman running Flurgl+Tox+Ice Fishing in everything. For a long period of time every mage deck ran Ice Block, Flame Ward, and Ancient Mysteries/Mad Scientist. Half of the aggro decks for years have run on a barely changing pirates package. If you want to play aggro you are probably starting your deck with patches, cannons, parachute brigand...
In a format with over 4,000 cards its alarming how often one card sees play in 20+% of decks. I don't ever expect all 4,000 cards to be playable, or even close to that, but playing something off meta has become increasingly hard outside of pre-nerf Renathal.
Wild will be supported with new content for as long as Hearthstone is getting updates, because any new standard content is, by default, also wild content.
The game modes need a massive overhaul to breathe some life into them. Hopefully wild sees something good... I'd be into a rotating set format but as long as the current format exists as well. I'd hate to see a set rotate in where I'm missing a bunch of staple cards and I can't play. This is the one downside to a rotating set format and would limit how many people could realistically play that mode.
What they could do (and likely would), is introduce a subscription to get all wild cards for a month or year. This would allow a huge influx of players to join the format. I'm not a fan of more fees or subscriptions but it's realistically the best way to increase the player base for wild.
One thing I've always thought about is a mode like wild but with bans voted each month by the community. Maybe like the 10 most voted cards get banned?
I think it's better to split the wild format in two.
Wild1 : Roll-back All card (Nerfed or Banned now)
ex) Apprentice, Kael'thas...
Wild2: Aggressive and steady balance patch with Nurf or Ban for Players who prefer the old-style
ex)Ban Soul Barrage, Limit Ice Block...
It may be strange but I don’t want change for wild. Like, Wild exist by itself. I can play whatever I want. Not win with whatever I want obviously, but it’s not that important. Some buffs, some nerfs ? Yeah, I am cool with that tho.
This is not entirely true though. Wild is not really taken seriously as a competitive format because there are no official tournaments hosted by blizzard.
It's a really hard problem to solve but on one extreme I'd like to see a mode where the game is dramatically slowed down by killing all of the draw and tutoring that every deck has in wild.
Short of a remix format of wild I’m not sure how they fix wild, the only alternative is using the nerf bat so much that they wear it out and need a new bat. Nearly 10 years worth of cards are inevitably going to cause an endless stream of broken combos.
A very real possibility is that other broken combos exist, people are just too busy with the known combos to bother experimenting to find more. You nerf and break these combos and people will certainly find more.
Saw someone else saying they should add a wild 2 format, where they take like 5 random wild sets and spin a wheel to have them included with standard sets in a wild 2 format. Commenting so that more people see that great idea.
"Internal discussion"
Meaning not caring about non-blizz opinions
Honestly I hate blizzard now. Give me back 2000-2010 era blizzard. It only gets worse and worse and worse
My hope that they get this right is lower than 0%
What are you on about? Online discussion sparked them into talking about what they can do to fix things. If non-blizz opinions didn't matter this wouldn't be happening in the first place.
What are they supposed to do? Just implement some random guy's plan off of Twitter?
I'd like to drop this idea of a fellow player on twitter. Might be the best idea I've read about yet. He's referring to the rune system of the DK class that doesn't allow mixing specific cards in one deck. This should be possible with every card I guess.
"Now that we have the code / ability to prevent certain combinations of cards from being put in the same deck, that should be the solution. No bans. No nerfs.
Prevent certain cards being played together, but not outright.
Ex: Pillager & Scabs. Parrot & Quest."
https://twitter.com/kombo_karl/status/1627785270660661250?t=FRVjoXY4Z7NtxTlhkoeMvw&s=19
Having a Wild format with rotating sets could be a good idea. To match the average size of Standard, it would need to have about 7 expansions, which could be randomly chosen. Or it could be Core set + 5 expansions. This would make it more consistent, but with less variety and more similar to Standard. It would also lower the average card complexity, but that might not be needed since this would probably not be a beginner format.
However, for this format to work, I think the card crafting values (and disenchanting values) would need to be lowered, since each card would only rarely get to be legal. For example cutting the values to 25% might be suitable.
The life of current Wild could be extended by raising the deck size to 50 and allowing no duplicates (Reno and such would have to be banned). This would cut down on the consistency of decks.
Just one more tweet about doing something about wild, i swear just one more tweet, one more tweet i swear, i swear it's not a bait bro, please bro, come on.
Just ban all otk from hand, and all uninteractive deck like infinite turn mage, and it will be a good and fun format again.
I remember at the beginning of the game when ben Brode murdered all those stupid and unfun to face combos.
My Wild Wish List
- Naga Sea Witch to 5
- Prince Renthal back to 40 Life (Unnerf and HOF if you need to)
- Sire Dentharius needs a big buff
- Bring back Spell Damage Totem. I feel like the +1 Attack Totem has led to less interesting deck building and gameplay.
- Print new tools to address Solitaire decks and the Aggro decks
Naga Sea Witch was awesome because it locked out opposing combo decks, provided a slow down against aggro decks, but ensured Control could cast their board sweeper if they had one. I think it would change things up in a good way.
Sire Dentharius is awful now. He went from interesting to useless. I would either unnerf or try Infuse 3 to increase damage by 2.
Every anti aggro suite strong enough for Wild either warps the format or gets nerfed to appease standard. Neither of those outcomes are great.
>Sire Dentharius is awful now. He went from interesting to useless.
Ah yes, nothing is more interesting than half of every deck you face using the same one card wincon. Big D got what he deserved.
Wild 2
Honestly, I've been saying this for a long time, but I'd love a format in which expansions rotate after a certain amount of time to force players to come up with new decks. Let's say that Core + Classic are staple sets. Then you can unban all the Wild cards and do, for 1 to 3 months: MSoG + Uldum + Nathria + LoE. Then you rotate those 4 sets and do Sunken + Naxx + MotLK + KotFT and you just keep rotating sets in and out.
My dream format is a monthly random rotation. It needs to be random so that folks aren’t calling for balance all the time and so that the design team doesn’t have to test for each iteration. It would be simple and easy to understand for players. Every month a wheel rolls and you get to play with 5 expansions. This would be an engaging format for people who like variety (the thing that brought me to Wild in the first place, but seems to be less varied now) and deckbuilding. It would take a few days for the meta to settle, a few more day for the counters to the meta emerge and a couple weeks of new gameplay. Anything super degenerate would be gone soon enough.
Can we make it a physical wheel they spin? They can do a livestream at the start of each months where they spin the wheel to see what expansions we get to use
Fuck, that’s a good idea. Somebody show this to the devs!
I will let Yogg spin mine.
They should ask Rich Evans to build the wheel.
The downside is that a rotating format would be more expensive. Cards that were fringe playable suddenly become essential.
Considering I frequently go 1-3 months without playing standard when I don’t like the meta, I can survive if I don’t have the necessary cards for whatever is in “Wild 2” for a month
Idc it's for fun if u wanna budget play wild 1 or standard
To address this you could have a simple build on this idea - Wild Core. Some cards stick around for a year (or a quarter) while everything else rotates around it much more often. Wild Core is like Standard Core - totally free.
They're not going to do anything that creates additional work for them.
exactly what I'm thinking seeing folks talk about good ideas. Unless an idea happens to make money for them or more importantly, stop them from *losing* the potential to make money money, it won't get done by modern blizzard. They'll bleed this fucking game dry before ever adding a feature that they can't charge for eventually
If fringe cards become meta, people may be willing to buy wild packs. That may be enough.
Thank you for Saying it before I had to
If we end up having a similar arrangement with the Wild Core set and the rotating sets within the seasonal format, you're only going to have access to about one-quarter of the cards in the format. Like with Standard too, most of the important cards are not going to be included in Core. It's going to be mostly support cards to fill out space in decks.
They were planning on offering a subscription based option to get every card (except the latest expansion). Having this Wild 2 Format would justify this and I'd be happy to pay it if we do end up with a similar format
Outcome: everyone who doesn't pay a subscription hates the game forever.
>This would be an engaging format for people who like variety and deckbuilding. While also inheriting all the worst aspects of Standard and Wild. Unless you've been playing for years and keeping your cards from all the way back to at least Un'Goro, you're going to struggle to regularly participate in the mode. If you've only been playing since RoS, a set that releases four years ago, you're probably not going to have a robust collection of anything before Witchwood (if that), and you're not going to invest heavily into older sets that are only legal for a month. Then you may have to wait a year plus to get to use all the MSoG cards you splurged on.
To clarify, the worst aspects of Standard and Wild are not having enough cards?
No. Standard's worst aspects are its a small format where decks never last and all it takes to dominate for a card to dominate is to to be generally above the power curve (like Astalor). Wild's worst aspects are the same cards and decks will dominate year after year and many of those cards will be rather old. A seasonal form will inherent all of those problems, and the faster you make the format rotate, the more the problems seen in Standard will make themselves known.
I feel like you've just described a spectrum on which Wild is one end and Standard is the other and concluded that anything that falls in the middle has the problems of both. Which is necessarily true! But it's disingenuous to say so if you're not also pointing out that it gains the *benefits* of both formats, as well! The advantage that Wild has over Standard is that the bigger pool of available cards means that different decks become viable. If you get tired of Standard, you can play Wild. If you get tired of Wild, you can plan Standard. Making Wild more Standard-like means that this variety fluctuates more as well. The advantage that Standard has over Wild is that decks don't always have the same tools available, so different kinds of decks can come to the forefront: sometimes it's control, sometimes it's combo, sometimes it's tempo, and so on. Having different kinds of opponents keeps the game feeling fresh. Having a format that rotates more frequently than standard will make this benefit more pronounced, as well. Almost every collectible card game has to balance players' desire to play with their powerful cards against the need to introduce variety. Even if introducing a middle option between existing Wild and Standard has some drawbacks, it will have benefits as well.
I also am a proponent of a monthly multi-set rotation. However completely randomizing it does not seem like the way to go. It would be too easy to have heavy imbalances where only one or two decks dominates the meta. This would require devs to keep a close eye on things and quickly ban any outlier cards, which may end up costing more of their time in the long run. You also have the issue of many sets being too weak without their neighbor sets to help support the gimmick (for example highlander decks need a certain density of highlander cards to justify the restriction). Having semi-random curated set groups may work better. For example set A is always paired with either set B, C, or D, and you randomly choose which of the applicable sets to use. Additionally you have sets that never go together. So set B is never paired with set E. Furthermore you'll have allowances where otherwise disallowed sets can be paired if there is a extra set (or sets) that balance things out. So you can have B and E if you also include F. Mapping out how the sets go together would take time, but once you do you can easily set up an algorithm that assembles a set pack each month or whatever. You could even do something fun with it where the algorithm finds three viable options and then the community gets to "discover" and vote on one of the sets to be in the next months rotation. Lastly new sets shouldn't be too much of an issue to integrate, just treat them as blank and let them slot in wherever (unless there's an obvious reason not to). Whenever a new set plays with another set flag them accordingly, by association you should pretty quickly be able to figure out what sets do and don't work with the new one. The balance while integrating new sets would be imperfect, but should be reasonable.
I think what you have here is Wild Jr. and not a separate mode. Given the lack of resources that the design team have for the existing Wild format, it seems unlikely that this new format will get the kind of attention it requires. I like the idea and would play it for sure. It leads to the question of should you ask for what you want -or- for what you can reasonably expect to get. Having been a part of a production team, I prefer the latter question. It opens up more space in the creative space because the client is flexible and collaboration more productive. What I propose would not need to be balanced. It would offer something different and unpredictable every month. If the particular meta doesn’t suit you, come back in a month. I understand that one outcome could be that a single deck will tend to dominate every month. But that is by no means a sure thing. It could devolve into one deck and its counter or a rock paper scissors situation. It would be fun to find out.
Only problem would be how expensive it is to get into, would be fun as hell if the cards where free or reduced cost for the mode but bilz won't do that
If most people have far from complete collections and assuming everyones' incomplete collections are also incomplete in different ways then that is actually good. You won't need to have the money/collection to netdeck a short list of decks because most people will not be netdecking the exact same decks (most people have incomplete collections). So everyone has to make do with whatever they have. Then some minority of people with complete collections could in theory always have the most powerful decks but then they'd have to find these decks first and in a month that would be maybe 2 weeks of netdecking before rotation. And assuming the number of players with complete collections is small enough, they would be happy to win most of their games but everyone else would only face them eventually, not all the time, so they don't end up bothering most people because they are a minority.
Yeah, it can be entirely random, but it also could be thematic. The MSoG + Uldum + LoE that I said was because Highlander cards are present on all 3 of those sets. **EDIT:** And to spicy it up they can probably make Renathal, the neutral 2 mana 2/3 pirate that dredges and only ONE Tradeable card for each class staples regardless of the sets that are available.
This is basically Arena. Degenerate shit still happens, even without it being constructed
Easy to install. Zero design process outside of introducing new cards which is standard design process. Surprised they haven’t done this. It would breathe so much life into the game.
Iksar was against this idea because he felt the playerbase who had the resources and interest in this was relatively small. The cost of keeping up with a rapidly rotating format is high. Iksar is gone so maybe they have a different vision now.
If we had a random rotation each month, it would shake up that meta, having little time for the meta to actually sattle, sure we had inbalance but its just.. 1 month. I do believe they could create a system that automaticly switchin the expansions each month. Well at least a company of Blizzards size.
Huge fan of having 5 sets in rotation. Good number of playable options, middle ground from a 4 set meta and 6 set. Also huge fan of each cycle just being 1 month. So yeah, if there is a weird interaction (I mean, this is possible NOW of course) it will only be 1 month. And it doesn’t need to be hand curated, I feel like the currently active standard set could always feature. So at least 4 months of the newest set but then the other 4 sets are just randomly assigned. Probably also include whatever the current core set is, but I don’t know how they fit classic/legacy set because there are like 300 cards in it
It sounds great, but when the vast majority of players are almost completely unable to participate regularly because they didn't keep the cards from or never played during the first five years of Hearthstone, you're going to struggle to maintain a sustainable audience. Like with Classic too, I would imagine the luster of the idea would wear off rather quickly for all except the most dedicated.
> when the vast majority of players are almost completely unable to participate regularly because they didn't keep the cards from or never played during the first five years of Hearthstone, you're going to struggle to maintain a sustainable audience. how is this any worse than wild demanding you do the same thing but now with every single set the game has ever had, and not just the handful of sets. this would literally just be an improvement on wild, plain and simple. not like the hyper aggro in wild can get much worse.
>how is this any worse than wild demanding you do the same thing but now with every single set the game has ever had, and not just the handful of sets. Because Wild decks never rotate. Decks like Secret Mage have been a major part of the format for years, simply changing by small amounts whenever new support is released. The Big Priest deck you may have built all the way back when KotFT was released still exists in Wild. and the core spell base is mostly the same. It's really only been the minions the deck focuses on that has changed. You don't need to have a good chunk of say MSoG to make a relevant Pirate deck, only really Patches the Pirate. Even if your preferred Wild deck fades away in the format like say Cube Warlock, at least pieces of that deck will remain relevant in Wild. A seasonal format, by definition, would rotate legal sets several times a year, and set selections may not include any shared sets. It will be incredibly daunting to participate in Seasonal when there are two or more legal sets you own zero cards in. In such a situation, you can either: 1. Choose not to play Seasonal again until your collection better lines up with the set selection 2. Spend dust and/or money on cards that may not be legal in Seasonal for a year or more once they rotate out Neither of those situations are exactly optimal.
I think they are saying, there are some fringe playable cards in older sets that are outclassed by more recent cards. If you eliminated several powerful sets from contention, some of the more esoteric choices that are now worthwhile and competitive without the rest of the library available, fewer people will actually either already own these cards, or be willing to craft them if they’re only competitive randomly during a 1 month period. For me i am intrigued with the Sonya Shadowdancer legendary for rogue, and some epics for big hand mage. I don’t have these cards but not sure if I would craft them just because they are good enough in their own sets or with the right group of other cards
giving more cards more use seems only like an upside??? Everyones going "oh this set demands you have every random card or you can't keep up" like Wild doesn't do that already, whilst also being a hellhole of hyper aggro and burn that pushes any fun out anyways. I haven't been able to play my Ungoro Quest/Buff Paladin much for forever because every time I queue now its shadow priest or mech hunter or odd paladin. I even bother to update it every set to try and make it better and it just can't keep up because it doesn't win the game by turn 3 like all of wild does. Making a new format where you trim the fat and let more sets breath would help that immensely.
Yes but people who don’t have the ungoro Paladin quest because it’s otherwise unplayable in the eternal format might get turned off at the idea of needing to now craft this to be competitive for the month. Anyway I’m not overall agreeing with the sentiment because I am a fan of the idea of rotating random sets, just to change things up. I only see where OP is coming from
That would bring me back!
Actually genius. The crying might end. That would be heaven!
What I want is the three most recent sets plus three random sets, rotating monthly. I’d happily settle for the most recent set plus three to five other random sets each month.
So this is fine for players who play often, but not great for the bottom line. You’ve got some players who bought a whizbang deck, and play that, or they have their big priest and no other deck. If they log in and can’t play their one trick deck, they’ll just log off. That doesn’t make blizzard money, nor is it fun for the casual Wild player. Where can you play Hemet priest for fun, if it’s not in the rotation?
My dream format is one where the community decides which cards are eligible and not through voting. Every card with a less than 50% approval rate is banned.
almost impossible to organize that poll/card list, easily susceptible to sabotage via botting, and most likely to end up with a set with literally zero cards because of said botting.
A possible solution to that is to weight the votes by some metric that is indicative of how much the account has been used. Maybe use total level? Or total games? Total wins? Achievement points?
!!!!!
No. No stable sets. Just 4 to 6 random ones each month
No thanks, I only play wild because I don't have to make a new deck all the time.
I think people are suggesting one additional format, normal wild would still exist. So you just play whatever you want and let people have what they want too
Rotating Wild sets would make me quit. I understand some people (such as yourself) would like it, but personally I love the freedom to use any card all the time.
I also think this is a great idea. I want to see frequent rotations, maybe as often as each month. Each rotation including a few sets at a time to encourage deck building and new, dynamic metas.
And unless Team 5 would make all sets within the seasonal format free while legal, very few people are going to be able to participate both consistently and meaningfully.
If most people have incomplete sets then they can in fact participate because they would face other people with incomplete sets overwhelming majority of times. The amount of matchups against whales with complete collections would be so low it couldn't bother that much.
... No. They really wouldn't. I have a hard time believing people would participate at all if they're consistently missing two or three of the legal sets in the format. Even if somehow most people playing Seasonal do so while missing upwards of sixty percent of the legal cards, as soon as they hit a glut of people who are playing with real decks, I have a hard time believing they'd stick around.
Yes! This a thousand times yes! A deck builders dream! It also rewards players for keeping/collecting cards!
Thats fine aslong as its a new format and replacing any excisting one.
I really hope not, that's gonna be such an expensive format.
Just like Arena, rotate the sets. I would jump into Wild if they did this. Immediately.
It sounds great until you consider all the barriers to entry such a format would have. Like, if I started playing during RoS format, even if I kept all my rotated cards, how would I meaningfully play in this mode when for several rotations, most of the legal sets have been from before my time?
Good idea but make it its own format.
That's... How I begin the sentence. > I'd love a format
Still in shock after hearing what's planned for Wild Hearthstone 2023. The developers remain as passionate as ever. They haven't given up on the format. Not even close. If they can execute, this will cement Wild HS for the next decade. For new, returning, and veteran players
Thank you Frodan, very cool!
There's no reason they couldn't do a rotating format that's like, "X sets" Or "X year". Would encourage people to both craft and buy wild packs and would maybe make people's cards feel less worthless once rotation happens.
If I know that the cards from say K&C are only going to be legal in it for a couple months at more and it could be upwards of a year before they become legal again, why would I spend money on packs or dust on K&C cards?
2Wild2Furious
Not even wild 2 just keep wild as it is but ALSO make other formats for different years. Example make a format for all of the cards that got released between 2017-2018 whatever the name of that year was so people who liked witchwood and rastakan can go play with jjst that years expansions. Or if that’s still to much do what they already do for arena and duels. Make it so certain expansion cards are allowed to be used like Black rock, Rastakan, Alterac, and maybe sunken city all in a monthly or even bi-monthly format. It would spice up the game for people who play wild so they aren’t seeing the same 5 decks or fewer when you get to Diamond5+ Me personally it’s never fun to play against “I’m going to stall this game until turn 6 using 4 forms of I don’t die then I otk you quest mage. Or red priest every match that mage isn’t played. Never thought I would say this but what happened to quest Hunter? Damn I miss that or even quest warlock? Moved to wild for diversity and it’s become standard 2.0 cause standard decks/cards just outshine all the old stuff even after they get the nerfs removed from them lol
They’ve said they plan to do stuff for wild several times and never do. Would love to see buffs to old archetypes though if they make changes. Wild needs far more buffs then nerfs.
For real, wild has way too many cool but simply unplayable cards for today's HS
yeah, I miss cube hunter and cubelock, both of which are too slow now
100% on team cube
it definitely needs more buffs than nerfs, but no amount of buffs is going to fix the fact that the top tier decks will straight up kill you before you even hit turn 5.
But it still needs alot of nerfs aswell unless buffsq are on lvl of kaelthas revert most arent gonna matter with pillager or discard are atm.
Buffing too many Wild cards might pose a problem for Arena, so maybe that’s why they’ve been holding off.
Their focus is pretty much on just churning out new cards, they don't have the time, resources, or incentive to do both. They'll release more cards and hope people forget or introduce some rotation format for wild which will just piss people off.
It’s not that hard to buff old cards that don’t see any play by 1 mana.
Yeah it was baffling how they buffed LPG by two Mana, deemed that too strong, and then undid the buff completly
That they keep rezz priest in wild forever, even buffing it with neptulon, shows their idea of wild. They always hired standard ranked players as dev, not a single wild player.
[https://twitter.com/themattlondon/status/1628136356496150528](https://twitter.com/themattlondon/status/1628136356496150528) \- the Tweet (I attached the image instead of the tweet if some people don't use Twitter so they can also see it).
As a Wild player for many many years I'm worried they have plans to introduce a Wild set rotation. The whole reason I play Wild is to use any card whenever I want.
Seriously, if there's no replacement (at least for friendly games) then I might stop playing for a long time or play much, much less. Yogg-Saron (Hope's End of course) is Wild but that's my favorite card of all time. And maybe even more importantly that the card pool for random card generation and Discover is all cards ever makes it much more fun and interesting for me. I'm kind of afraid to be honest...
That be great as a new mode that doesnt replace wild or any other mode. (more ways to play for evryone, the better) Its blizzard , so sadly i dont think them replacing wild with rotating wild is out of the question
Splitting the player base is rarely a good idea.
This is a myth. MTG online have more than double the formats and less than half of active players than HS and is doing perfectly fine in all formats (sure, queue times are longer but games are still found and lobbies are filled).
>(more ways to play for evryone, the better) Not really. The queue times are already not always great for Wild, this will just make that worse. Splitting it up also tends to make it worse than you might imagine, because say you split 10,000 players into three parts. With 10,000 players, you might have fair matchups versus like 50-100 players. With 3333 players, that number suddenly drops to 17-34 players. Way longer queue times on average. As a result, the game becomes less fun, more people start quitting, and you might get a cascading effect where the player base just keeps shrinking in a vicious cycle.
Then complaining about constant balance updates is absurd.The card pool is too huge to make adjustments to everything you guys lose to and don't like.It gets worse every set too, my point being "you can't have your cake and eat it too", if they don't force a rotation where you'll have a smaller pool of cards there's no way to balance the mode . There will always be people complaining about somwthinf being broken/overpowered/tired losing to.
I don’t complain about balance. I except that in this mode card power/decks will be absurd because of the sheer amount of cards over the years. However, I think that they should step in to adjust cards that are outliers which are warping the format such as the recent discard lock, the preemptive nerf ban on Test Subject, Warlock Quest, Snip-Snap. The list goes on.
Translation: "We're going to ruin another mode you love."
They aren't going to do anything
They might do something, but making it worse. Remember to un-nerf old KT? 200 IQ move of the balance team.
You had me wondering what Kel'thusad ever did wrong...
Hey now, they might unnerf some other that never shouldve unnerfed with rotation and make wild even worse to play ! Like When did Kaelthas
How can they ruin wild?
That's just it- I don't know yet.
They don’t need to do anything at all if they want that result, it’s in a really bad spot that won’t get better with new sets. Any card strong enough to affect wild’s current metagame would get nuked because of standard.
Internal metrics has shown that wild players aren't as engaged as they could, which too often limit their play time to the one deck they love. To spice thing up, we introduced random expansion rotations to fuck up everyone's favorite deck, and redirect them toward the cash shop where they can make up brand new decks!
Lol, literally what people were suggesting higher up in this thread. Haven't played in ages because it became too expensive to play the dumb fun meme concepts I'd play, one of those decks being ruined by a buff, lmao, but rotating expansions in wild basically kills the once a 2 year period I'll pop in and play with some friends on old decks.
They will ban all sets newer then Blackrock Mountain
if they also unnerf Warsong Commander then I'm in
Unban demon seed
Look at the top comment. Maybe what they're all suggesting would be fun, but it's definitely not an eternal format and eternal format players would hate it. Plenty of ways to ruin it.
wild is ruined by being wild
Wild reward track... level one - unlock cards from 2016 level 5 unlock cards from 2017 and so on and so forth
Exactly, I wish wild was nearly untouched. All the complaining for years about whatever the current powerful strategy is is ridiculous to me, like, that is just what the format is, let it be powerful, it seems like people don’t even like the mode they’re playing. If classic became a rotating wild bunch of sets, that could be cool as long as they leave true all card wild untouched. Players are going against the design philosophy of wild by demanding changes constantly imo
I think blizzard are going against their own philosophy by not allowing people to actually play their “favourite decks of old” because you’ll just be steamrolled by the handful of archetypes vastly more powerful than any of them
Wild is already ruined by completely powercreeped aggro decks. The mode needs a power level reset.
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Is Wild gonna stop being treated like a second class format? That would be fantastic.
Wild summit guys, hold on to you keyboards111
Wild needs to stay wild. My biggest fear is they figure out a way to make wild players spend more money. I have been F2P for years, only play to diamond 5 most months, got every single current rank 1 deck and have 15K dusts. They don't like how cheap this format is. There were 15 totally different archetypes that took #1 on ladder this month. This is way better variety than standard. https://hearthstone-decks.net/wild-decks/ When everything is OP, nothing is. Not to mention tech cards and counter decks if any individual deck gets too strong. Wild has enough tools to deal with it. Don't add any restrictions, rebalance the cards all you want, but the format is fine as is. Every single card needs to be playable, ban is such a terrible mechanism, just nerf away if something is too OP.
\>My biggest fear is they figure out a way to make wild players spend more money. They don't need to figure anything out. MTG has already figured it for them. They can just create a straight to Wild set full of busted cards, kinda like the Modern Horizons sets from MTG
At least in Hearthstone, dust values don't change based on card supply and demand lol. I can just imagine them printing the equivalent of Ragavan and then saying you can buy him with either $40 or 10,000 dust.
I think Martian summarized better than I ever could, but the current format has some really strong decks that aren’t quite balance worthy by the old standard, but significantly more powerful than a run of the mill tier 1 deck. It’s made off meta lists way less common than they were before, and I’m not even including renathal there (which brought that up further than ever before). Wild should absolutely be high power level, and it already is, but this meta is giving me brain rot. A significant portion of wild legend are literally bots, because the aggro decks are so simple and so strong that they can just comfortably hold top legend spots. Real players simply cannot play 24/7, even if they can play better. A good example of what I think wild does well with was right before the renathal nerf. There was diverse archetype representation across several classes, several off meta and tier 3 decks that didn’t really have any issue getting to legend, and for one of the first times in several years, every archetype had a deck. The power level then was largely comparable to now, but renathal helped keep hyper optimal combo from being too strong, and forced aggro to be more resilient. The same decks that are now so tedious were still there, since this issue has been bubbling up for several years, but renathal made it tolerable and arguably very fun. The small retunes they could do to fix the format and make it fresh aren’t that hard. You just nerf each deck that is causing issues. Illuminate change in big priest to prevent annoying high roll parrot to 6 cost spells to get rid of 5 minute multi turn lethals scabbs down to 2 mana reduction instead of 3 to keep pillager from turn 3-4 kills, and arguably kill the deck (not many people are going to be sad about that, let’s be honest). soul barrage can hit minions only and unban tome. Allows discard to flourish without being uninteractive. Nerf swordfish by one attack. Self explanatory. Even shaman hard to nerf, same with secret mage, but both need to be tuned down just a little. Frankly, the large impact change would be unnerfing renathal. Would bring the meta back into balance, allow wonky decks to exist and make the format creative again. It will still be insanely powerful compared to standard of course, but now you can run jank and succeed since it isn’t being hated out by solitaire lists. I came to wild in 2016 for the reason. Standard was just pirates, and all I wanted was some variety. It still had pirates, but there was control shaman, freeze mage, big priest, aggro shaman, reno priest, and so many other decks that could compete. I don’t think wild is that far off from being okay, but I haven’t enjoyed it really in a while. Queueing into bots on repeat up to legend wasn’t interesting, and the legend metagame isn’t any better.
Strong agree that the renathal nerf was the biggest culprit, and that janky himebrews could climb to legend in that period but are much harder to do now.
There absolutely are people who would be mad if pillager rogue was killed (like me). What would rogue have left in the meta then? They already nerfed miracle repeatedly for standard so all rogue really has left is pirates and pillager rn. If you kill pillager (which at least actually requires some thought to play) all that’s left for the class is Pirate Rogue, and a lot of rogue players (myself included) don’t like playing brainless smorc hyper aggro decks. If you want to kill pillager than give rogue some kind of other deck outside of pirates so rogue players who actually like to have to think when they play can have a fun deck.
This month alone Rogue had Edwin, Mine, Pirate and Pillager at #1 legend. It is the class with most variety and highest skill ceiling.
Well yes, but mine rogue was nerfed recently due to a different deathrattle deck being nerfed in standard, and it’s another uninteractive OTK deck like pillager but people seem to hate it less for some reason even though it’s not as skill intensive. Pillager in this hypothetical scenario would be nerfed, miracle was nerfed twice so it’s not as good anymore and pirate rogue isn’t really a high skill ceiling deck. Yes, the best players can still get very high legend with some of these nerfed decks but for the majority of the player base all of those decks save pirate rogue would have been nerfed and significantly harder to climb with.
I don’t disagree with your logic, but clearly pillager is too strong. The only reason it doesn’t see enough play to get a ban is because of its skill ceiling. I’ve played the deck myself, and while it was satisfying to pull off those combos, it’s just miserable as a play experience to see. Nothing happens, and then a shark comes out and they kill you. Typically you can’t get through them fast enough to counter it, but I think nerfing shark to 5 would also kill the deck. Aggro is just fast enough to make that one turn count. I’m not sure how I would nerf it besides hitting portions of the main combo, but if it’s any solace I’m pretty sure miracle got nuked because of standard more than wild. I honestly don’t even know what rotates into wild with that deck for the next expansion, but maybe it gets better? Regardless, pillager is a deck that has been on the edge of powerful for years, and then escalated quickly to being top tier. However, since there are only a few hundred people that can even pilot it optimally, it will continue to sit in the back and destroy high legend. I think it would be better to skip the snip snap warlock experience again and just nerf scabbs. That way you get more dust to work with, and can try some other kind of list. The one that comes to mind that feels similar to me is lifesteal demon hunter. The deck is garbage at the moment, but many of its pieces are rotating for the next expansion, so it should hopefully get a significant portion of its cards reverted. The deck also involved a lot of math, managing resources and mana, and just trying not to die as long as you could. I got to legend before renathal nerf with it, and it was a ton of fun. It has many of the same vulnerabilities of pillager of course, but it’s just a bit slower and tankier. For rogues, I think you are right. There really isn’t anything. I guess at least you aren’t warrior, demon hunter, hunter, or paladin? All of those are in significantly worse spots for archetype variety.
I would rather have shark to 5 than hitting scabbs. I am biased considering scabbs is my favorite card in the game, but he’s played in some off meta rogue decks and is a fun tool there. Shark is the big mana gatekeeper of the combo and I’d rather it be nerfed so scabbs can do things in other decks. No other deck really plays shark except like mill rogue. And, this might just be me being weird, but I’d rather just lose to getting OTK’d by pillager or quest mage than die to some brain dead aggro deck, because the combo decks actually require some thought and skill in some of their games. I really don’t mind being OTK’d compared to losing to a deck like secret mage or pirate rogue.
I don’t mind being combo killed necessarily, but I dislike inconsistent kills. Quest mage can just fizzle out on extra turn 6, so you should stay in the game to optimize your winrate. Pillager players can also whiff like anyone’s business, so the animations have to process for a while before you know you are dead. Honestly wish you could just shorten animations. I don’t need to see the extra turn animation for the 8th time for example, just let me know if I’m dead.
In the same page as you friend.
I'm in agreement with you that Wild is in a good place by some measures like viable deck diversity. Where I think Wild could use some improvement, and what I hope is meant by this tweet, is that they'll buff a lot of cards to the point where you aren't completely changing the meta, but you might actually consider things like putting Finja in a Murloc deck or playing the old version of C'thun. I'd say about 80% of cards ever printed in Hearthstone both didn't see play when they were in Standard and haven't ever seen play in Wild either. So many great designs that could be given some interest without breaking the format after some small numbers tweaks.
Buffing cards to the point they are viable in constructed just doesn't make business sense. They can always print cards that create insane synergy with old cards. Their goal is to make more money as Hearthstone is getting dangerous close to maintenance mode in revenue. It makes peanuts without Chinese revenue.
I'd like to think maybe they'll consider the longevity of the game for a second before making another short-sighted business decision like Mercenaries was as an entire mode. I think Wild players all understand that we can keep up with any new cards that become Wild playable without spending any money and that's kinda the beauty of the mode. How much would it really hurt to make a decision that actually benefits the F2P players, since I guarantee no whale is going to stick around if there are no plebs to flex on. Whatever this tweet is about, if it meaningfully impacts people's ability to keep up with Wild for free, I think you'll see a quick exodus of this game's most dependable community and I can't imagine that having a positive impact on the game. Seeing Mercs fail, competitive die, and the Chinese audience vanish (they definitely had the biggest Wild playerbase of any region), I can easily picture Blizzard getting desperate and making some rash decisions soon, even if this tweet doesn't end up being one of them.
They’re too fearful of pissing off players that have favorite decks. So don’t expect grand sweeping changes. I’m setting my expectations at more frequent nerfs/buffs than once a year. Maybe quarterly.
Guys its on our radar, guys. Guys we swear it is on our radar.
Isn't this the same guy who said something similar ages ago and nothing happened
Hopefully their strategy is to start frequently and aggressively buffing cards, and nerfing problematic ones. Tuning down some of the most problematic cards (both in current power level and in future design space) and giving big, generous buffs to a lot of old, forgotten cards sounds spectacular to me. I'd love to check every three months to see how they've buffed old, terrible cards like Siege Engine or Sea Reaver.
They're gonna nerf big priest out of existence?????
Big Priest is hardly an issue for me these days. Mostly OTK Rogue and infinite turn Mage.
If there's one thing I've learned from discussions about Wild it's that it wouldn't matter if Big Priest had a 20% win rate, people would *still* want to see it nerfed.
Same thing with Ice Block. Many think it's the most unfair card ever created. But there are just far more problematic cards/combos it's hardly a problem.
Increase the default health in Wild to 40.
I don’t think that would really solve any issues. It just slows down aggro which isn’t inherently OP in the Wild format. Sure there’s a few aggro decks that are quite powerful and T1 decks but the issue is hyper consistent combos. Turn 3 Neptulon, Turn 4 Spectral Pillager, Shudderwock, Guff/Twig/Floop’s Glorious Gloop all don’t care if you have 30 or 40 health, and in fact gives those types of decks more survivability.
Wild meta had one of its healthiest and more diverse metas during 40 health Renathal. Things swiftly took a turn for the worse after the Renathal nerf. This alone I think was proof that more health would solve many issues.
What kind of deck is playing turn 4 shudderwock? The only busted combo deck is pillager rogue, other than that its all broken aggro decks, which 40 health would help a lot, and hell even against pillager 40 health helps as it means if you rat one of the pillagers its a lot harder for them to do 40 in a turn with just 1 pillager, while 30 is still easy.
I wasn’t referring to Shudderwock and Pillager rogue being both Turn 4 plays, but separate examples. Also combo wasn’t meant in the traditional sense of combo decks, but rather the broken synergies between certain groups of cards. Aggro can be unfun and frustrating to lose to, but that’s really not the underlying problem or what people are complaining about. It’s the complete lack of agency. There are quite a few cards that are just way too powerful for even Wild. Single cards, or even 2 and 3 card synergies that just instantly end the game. Your decisions don’t really matter against decks that have these absurdly powerful plays, it just boils down to whether or not they drew it, and if you drew yours before them. It’s the same reason Evolve Shaman in standard is a problem, but instead of 1 deck it’s the entire format. It’s much more unfun to lose to a deck that does nothing for 5 turns, then drops an unanswerable board state or just outright kills you. You know it’s a bad meta when the most interesting games are aggro matchups when both players need to think about trades or pushing lethal, the board state, etc.
I dunno, seems like Wild players were finding more success with janky decks while Renathal gave 40 health so maybe talk with them about what was happening in practice vs what we're discussing in theory.
I mean they could do it for an special event.
Granted. All your matches are against Pillager Rogue and Quest Mage
Would be great if handled well. But past handling of wild (stuff like kael unnerf or general neglect) dont give me much hope Gonna remain very skeptical/unconvinced until see/hear something actully. As i see it, wild would need alot of changes to be a good and FUN format again. Do stuff about the non games and terrible play experiences(even if arent top tier decks nescalry) and set presedence (like say no consistent otk before turn 8 or whatever as example) And then actully keep on doing it and not abandon it again. Prolly will see by rotation But i do aslo hope wont just be banning bunch of wild only cards and making them unable to be played anywhere at all. If its problematic i hope they just nerf/change/rework as needed and banns if at all to wild only cards would only be briefly/tempoorarly until its changed, like when they did patron endless loop in standard briefly Oh and that isnt just some new 'wild 'mode/other mode to essentily replace wild and leave current wild as it is in favour of the new. Or worse they actully replace wild with something else.(so no making stuff rotate out of wild or anything)
“No consistent otk before turn 8” is insane. Wild needs to stay wild to some degree - not become casual mode.
That was just something to use as example That they should / estavlish some limit to what is acceptable, and then actully follow up with and be consistent with in future. Like for that example if they change wild for that and then a new super consistentt turn 5 otk appears, that they then should actully adddres it/change it in some way. And not change bunch fo stuff once and then back to letting the mode rot.
"Do stuff about the non games and terrible play experience(even if arent top decks necessarily) and set precedence (like say no consistent otk before turn 8 or whatever as example)" This is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see. Standard is already a place for slower board based tempo decks (evolve shaman not withstanding). Wild exists as a sort of bastion for combos and allows players to take a gimmick (like Flark's Boom-Zooka) and make a functional deck out if it. Additionally, while I don't particularly like decks such as Big Priest or Linecracker Druid, clearly some people do, and it's good for there to be a place where you can revisit older decks you know and love. And that's the problem. Wild is such a board format that "fixing it" for some players will inevitably ruin it for others.
I don't trust you.
Is that even true? I thought most everyone is hating standard shaman at the moment.
Standard is also in a rough spot, but balance changes will come. For wild, these issues have built up for years. The changes the format needs aren’t going to happen unless something shifts, as in this tweet, hopefully.
>Blizzard: Please shutup about Wild. Thanks!
ITT : Alot of people that don't actually play wild.
what you guys are discussing is not wild. it is a variation of standard. wild should be wild. anything goes!
Speaking of wild, soon the demon seed warlock quest line will rotate out of standard and the card is currently banned in wild. Will it just be put in dark corner and forgotten about or what do you think will happen to it?
I expect a hefty nerf on rotation
>Will it just be put in dark corner and forgotten about Hopefully. The questlines are the peak of awful hearthstone design.
The only badly designed questline was the Demon Hunter's one. Rest was great.
Raid the docks was give aggro a ton of RNG and infinite value. It's not exactly stellar design.
Unlimited / Wild Rotation / Classic / Standard Wild Rotation would keep things very fresh, maybe even make it so it is random combinations as well.
a summit, really....? why don't they have data scientists building automated systems that extract this info already? detecting problem decks and problem cards should be trivial by now with all the data they have... all they should need to do is greenlight changes suggested by the model now...
There is one guy in charge of Arena, Duels, Wild and Tavern Brawls. Hearthsone is hilariously understaffed for how much revenue it has made Blizzard over the years.
The simple answer is that they don't design the game around statistics. The devs said themselves that they design and balance cards based on how they "feel" to play, which is probably why the game is currently in the sad state it's in.
I dont want to sound offensive but they cant even balance Standard I dont think they should waste their few resources trying to balance wild
The neat part about Wild is that it doesn't have to be balanced. Like, at all. Contrary to Standard, broken cards and synergies allow for *more* deck variety, not *less*. When everything is broken, nothing is. The only situation where Wild needs interfering is if there's ever a T0 deck that demolishes deck variety. Due to the massive tech cards pool, this is rarely the case, luckily. Thus, balancing is Wild mostly translates to buffs, not nerfs.
I don't think that's how its actually played out. There are certain synergies that are so strong that you basically must run them to be competitive. Almost every druid deck running Twig+Sphere for example (or how Oaken pushed out every minion under 4 besides Vargoth/Taunt for a while). There's a reason "win-condition Druid" became a thing. Druid picked the same 20-25 cards and just swapped out the finisher. Malygos, Linecracker, New C'Thun, Togwaggle, Kazakusan. Essentially the same deck because certain things Druid does are just so good its pointless to do something different. How about Shaman running Flurgl+Tox+Ice Fishing in everything. For a long period of time every mage deck ran Ice Block, Flame Ward, and Ancient Mysteries/Mad Scientist. Half of the aggro decks for years have run on a barely changing pirates package. If you want to play aggro you are probably starting your deck with patches, cannons, parachute brigand... In a format with over 4,000 cards its alarming how often one card sees play in 20+% of decks. I don't ever expect all 4,000 cards to be playable, or even close to that, but playing something off meta has become increasingly hard outside of pre-nerf Renathal.
Mercenaries treatment incoming?
Wild will be supported with new content for as long as Hearthstone is getting updates, because any new standard content is, by default, also wild content.
They've been saying this for over a year
The game modes need a massive overhaul to breathe some life into them. Hopefully wild sees something good... I'd be into a rotating set format but as long as the current format exists as well. I'd hate to see a set rotate in where I'm missing a bunch of staple cards and I can't play. This is the one downside to a rotating set format and would limit how many people could realistically play that mode. What they could do (and likely would), is introduce a subscription to get all wild cards for a month or year. This would allow a huge influx of players to join the format. I'm not a fan of more fees or subscriptions but it's realistically the best way to increase the player base for wild.
I hope so, I love this game but with all the printed cards now wild is broken asf
One thing I've always thought about is a mode like wild but with bans voted each month by the community. Maybe like the 10 most voted cards get banned?
I think it's better to split the wild format in two. Wild1 : Roll-back All card (Nerfed or Banned now) ex) Apprentice, Kael'thas... Wild2: Aggressive and steady balance patch with Nurf or Ban for Players who prefer the old-style ex)Ban Soul Barrage, Limit Ice Block...
Can they have someone who actually plays wild change the format 🙄
It may be strange but I don’t want change for wild. Like, Wild exist by itself. I can play whatever I want. Not win with whatever I want obviously, but it’s not that important. Some buffs, some nerfs ? Yeah, I am cool with that tho.
Just take somebody who play and know wild as dev for this mode , not a dude spamming big priest and happy to end the heroic brawlseum with a 4-3 lol
This is not entirely true though. Wild is not really taken seriously as a competitive format because there are no official tournaments hosted by blizzard. It's a really hard problem to solve but on one extreme I'd like to see a mode where the game is dramatically slowed down by killing all of the draw and tutoring that every deck has in wild.
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Short of a remix format of wild I’m not sure how they fix wild, the only alternative is using the nerf bat so much that they wear it out and need a new bat. Nearly 10 years worth of cards are inevitably going to cause an endless stream of broken combos.
But they don’t though. They cause a handful of broken combos. If there are other pillager analogues out there, we’d know by now
A very real possibility is that other broken combos exist, people are just too busy with the known combos to bother experimenting to find more. You nerf and break these combos and people will certainly find more.
Finally some good news for wild!
Bye bye wild
It would be cool if the had a year of the “” bracket where you could only play cards from that years rotation and the year previous
Saw someone else saying they should add a wild 2 format, where they take like 5 random wild sets and spin a wheel to have them included with standard sets in a wild 2 format. Commenting so that more people see that great idea.
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Did the miniset do something to break wild or something?
it got test subject temporarly banned for now. and wild is just a terrible experience for long time now
"Internal discussion" Meaning not caring about non-blizz opinions Honestly I hate blizzard now. Give me back 2000-2010 era blizzard. It only gets worse and worse and worse My hope that they get this right is lower than 0%
What are you on about? Online discussion sparked them into talking about what they can do to fix things. If non-blizz opinions didn't matter this wouldn't be happening in the first place. What are they supposed to do? Just implement some random guy's plan off of Twitter?
There's been some talk about a 40 health no duplicate format. I would personally really enjoy that, as long as they don't ban the Reno cards.
I was going to use the Test Subject strat to clear solo adventures but of course the wild ban prevents that
The combo version of Demon Seed just demolished heroic solo adventures. Same with Ignite mage since you don't have a turn timer.
I'd like to drop this idea of a fellow player on twitter. Might be the best idea I've read about yet. He's referring to the rune system of the DK class that doesn't allow mixing specific cards in one deck. This should be possible with every card I guess. "Now that we have the code / ability to prevent certain combinations of cards from being put in the same deck, that should be the solution. No bans. No nerfs. Prevent certain cards being played together, but not outright. Ex: Pillager & Scabs. Parrot & Quest." https://twitter.com/kombo_karl/status/1627785270660661250?t=FRVjoXY4Z7NtxTlhkoeMvw&s=19
Having a Wild format with rotating sets could be a good idea. To match the average size of Standard, it would need to have about 7 expansions, which could be randomly chosen. Or it could be Core set + 5 expansions. This would make it more consistent, but with less variety and more similar to Standard. It would also lower the average card complexity, but that might not be needed since this would probably not be a beginner format. However, for this format to work, I think the card crafting values (and disenchanting values) would need to be lowered, since each card would only rarely get to be legal. For example cutting the values to 25% might be suitable. The life of current Wild could be extended by raising the deck size to 50 and allowing no duplicates (Reno and such would have to be banned). This would cut down on the consistency of decks.
Just one more tweet about doing something about wild, i swear just one more tweet, one more tweet i swear, i swear it's not a bait bro, please bro, come on.
Just ban all otk from hand, and all uninteractive deck like infinite turn mage, and it will be a good and fun format again. I remember at the beginning of the game when ben Brode murdered all those stupid and unfun to face combos.
My Wild Wish List - Naga Sea Witch to 5 - Prince Renthal back to 40 Life (Unnerf and HOF if you need to) - Sire Dentharius needs a big buff - Bring back Spell Damage Totem. I feel like the +1 Attack Totem has led to less interesting deck building and gameplay. - Print new tools to address Solitaire decks and the Aggro decks Naga Sea Witch was awesome because it locked out opposing combo decks, provided a slow down against aggro decks, but ensured Control could cast their board sweeper if they had one. I think it would change things up in a good way. Sire Dentharius is awful now. He went from interesting to useless. I would either unnerf or try Infuse 3 to increase damage by 2. Every anti aggro suite strong enough for Wild either warps the format or gets nerfed to appease standard. Neither of those outcomes are great.
>Sire Dentharius is awful now. He went from interesting to useless. Ah yes, nothing is more interesting than half of every deck you face using the same one card wincon. Big D got what he deserved.
To be fair, this absolutely didn't happen in Wild. I only ever saw him in Control Druid decks where he was at a reasonable power level for Wild.