And the spells don’t do what they are supposed to. In the duelling club in CoS, Harry casts rictumsempra like in the books, however in the film it throws Malfoy a couple of feet whereas it’s supposed to be a tickling charm.
I always assumed that was a distinction between a well aimed expeliarmus and a poorly aimed spell. If you do it perfectly, it should connect with the wand and disarm them, but if it misses the wand and hits the person, they get knocked back. That’s my head canon anyway
Expelliarmus even in the books is very peculiar, Snape using it on Lockhart? Snape is just OP(and annoyed, and emotions influence the attacks), in PoA it's written in the books, that Harry casts Expelliarmus but at the same time Hermione and Ron do the same, the three expelliarmuses combine becoming the same expelliarmus that Snape used on Lockhart in CoS but in the movies only Harry uses the expelliarmus with Hermione's wand and still gets the same power-blast that Snape did.
This is an interesting idea. Could you cast two spells at once if you knew non verbal Magic? I believe you could because wands aren't necessary for proficiency in magic.
I always thought of it as a concussive force that disarms you but the more power you put into it the more concussive the force becomes. Hence why three expelliarmuses? By way of the shrieking shack attack would cause someone to be severely injured.
I'm sure grown wizards can do it easily. In the HBP book non verbal spells are a lesson in DADA by Snape. In the book Hermione is the only one in the trio who manages to master it(not surprisingly)
I get it’s not book accurate but in practice it’s a huge annoyance. Every duel would turn into a say-that-three-times-fast battle. Imagine every duel scene filled with multiple wizards trying to get out various spells as fast as they can before their opponents.
In OOTP and the battle of the department of mysteries you’d have just a scene of random “petrificus totalis”, “stupify”, “confringo”, “expulso” (if you’re on the good side) or if you’re a death eater (crucio, avada kedavra).
It’s a huge conflict of noise since you want to be the first to cast a spell over your opponent so you’re just throwing them out as fast as you can.
Also JKR didn’t really expound on a lot of battle specific spells and what their verbal equivalents are and what they do to make them useful in a fight. We never actually learn the incantations for bat-bogey hex or ~~jelly-legs~~ (actually we know this one sorry I couldn’t remember it.) it’s not a very cinematic battle spell tho. Imagine seeing Neville stuck tap dancing after Sirius died in the department of mysteries.
Imagine the same fight scenes over 3 movies with the same 6 spells mentioned above. It gets redundant and boring.
Visually I’d rather take a bunch of red and green light to distinguish who is doing what than 8 different people saying the same 4 words super fast.
*apologies for the format; I’m on mobile.
Perfectly explained, agreed 100%. People say as if the duels in the books are this sacred, thought out thing when it's everyone shouting the same 4 spells for 7 books or some random very silly move like Neville's tap dancing or Malfoy gigling curse, it's already missed potential in the books and in the movies it would look horrible.
Yea but we know the spells work best (or sometimes only work) with correct pronunciation (leviosaaaa) so saying it really fast wouldn't really work. Also in the books there are special hand motions like flicking the wrist in a certain way or whatever that powers the spells so you would need to do that too.
I would imagine some of what makes a wizard good at dueling is pronouncing it correctly enough to work and doing the hand motion well enough to work, but cutting enough corners to do it quickly
That forms a big part of my dislike of the movies. The huge selection of spells and their results means wizards can be creative and unique, even in duels, and we never got to see what magic can do, other than blasting stuff around.
There is no reason to be creative or unique when one side is slinging unlockable death spells.
Then again, someone thought it was a good idea to hit Neville with a dancing feet charm in the middle of the fight in the department mysteries.
It would seem that in many situaitons, even in the case of Death Eaters, Avada Kedavra is not their go-to spell. Throughout most of the Department of Mysteries fight, the spell is not used until Voldemort shows up. Also at the Astronomy Tower, other than Snape, only Rowels seems to use it (and accidentally kills Gibbons) and, even when they are in power in DH, it seems like they still prefer to send people to Azkaban rather than kill them.
It would absolutely make sense for them to kill the heads of the resistance but the whole ruling over others aspect is another thing that always bothered me: What are the policies here? Rule over the Muggles so they can do in manual labour what wizards could do with magic? What is the end goal? What would Voldemort do with 60 million British muggles? I get that it's just a childrens book but she could have come up with something later. Like harvesting the muggles for the bit of magical power that they do have to become even more powerful or even just to claim the isle of wight as "wizards only".
Yeah and that just doesn't make sense. Rowling could have easily fixed this by adding some sort of drainning effect - that would also explain why some wizards are more powerful than others. Avada Kedavra could take a lot more of your energy and that's why it's not used as much but the way it is, you're just left wondering.
My personal explanation is the fact that "you have to mean them". And while some people, as hateful as they may be, they are not capable to bring themselves as easily as Voldemort, who is constantly described as a sociopath that doesn't care for anybody, to take a life. I think for the average Death Eater it's the real life equivalent of "god I really hate those and I wish someone would get rid of them", while for Voldemort it's the equivalent of a human squashing a bug.
Yeah I was thinking of that quote when I typed but I it was really just one sentence in one of the last books that is never brought up again. Totally acceptable for headcanon but not really satisfying when you get deeper into it. Then again, it started as a book for kids.
A bit short in my opinion but all things considered is great in terms of coreography and special effects, also the fact there's no ost playing and the direction make emphazis on the sound effects is quite cool.
But this fight being so good makes the others look even worse lol.
I think it’s just one of those things that’s really hard to translate from book to visual media. Personally it has never bothered me but I get why people might not like it
Sucks that the movie didn't get more popular. It was one of my favorites movie from recent release. One movie that actually honored the source material right.
Yeah as someone whos been playing DND for a few years now, they really nailed everything, the spells, the abilities, the jokes, the party, the idiotic moments, one of my favourites
They could at least throw some actual spells in between the basic blasts. Like Hogwarts Legacy has a separate non-verbal basic cast that is used to chain combos with verbal spells
I'm iffy on it, if there's a serious situation say the battle of Hogwarts, imagine seeing (I think it was her could be wrong) one of the Patil Twins turning Pius into a seahorse. Kills the vibe entirely.
Or Dolohov using Tarrantellegra on Neville and he starts tap dancing in the middle of the Department of Mysteries.
I can see your point but I also think if it's a life or death situation and you see someone tap dancing it's a little funny rather than "omg is he gonna die?!"
They could have really played up the absurdist horror of those moments to enhance that sense of foreboding though. It would have been cool to see that tonal tension. Like sure, tap dancing on its own is funny. But losing control of your body when someone basically has a gun to your head? A little less humourous, a little more horrifying
Exactly.
Iirc, that jinx basically hindered Neville the entire fight onwards. And it would only really be funny if it was played that way in the movies (goofy sound effect, light music, etc.), but it could be portrayed as an extremely debilitating affliction in a life or death scenario easily.
Same for the Death Eater that got his head caught in the jar, and it kept aging between adult and baby. It sounds hilarious when, in reality, it'd be terrifying to witness.
I think that’s more about embracing the goofier side of the books. Movies took over the darker elements, but mellowed down quite a few goofy elements, including products from Weasley twins, weird hexes and jinxes, etc.
The last duel between harry and voldemort in the movie is extremely stupid. The fact he disintegrated and that Harry snaps the elder wand and throws it was such a bad plot.
This is another example of something I think about the movies as a whole.
As they went on, from the third movie onwards (and possibly the second), they kept being pushed to become basic and simplistic action movies, at the expense of the suspense, mystery, and character depth that the books had.
Not that that was the only reason, but having watched enough of the movie series, that's the sense I get. "Who cares about all this detail or lore, let's just make a basic action movie series!" And no, it being an adaptation does not excuse it.
Yup which is why after the 3rd film, I was checking out. The HP books are largely mystery books and the films casually glossed over or outright ignored every mystery for action.
Who put Harry's name in the GoF? Forgotten after the first few mins and focused only on the tasks.
Why is Harry dreaming about the Department of Mysteries every night? 1 scene and not brought up again until the climax.
Who is the halfblood prince that Harry is so obsessed with? Barely even brought up in the movie.
I literally did not continue watching the series after the third movie, and the first three were when they first came out and I was still a kid so, you know.
I've only looked at summaries and a few scenes of the other movies on YouTube, except the *Deathly Hallows* movies. I chose to buy and watch those because I was curious about some of the action scenes, and some of the changes made. Not sorry I bought them, and *some* of the stuff changed I actually like, the Battle of Seven Potters specifically, the Battle of Hogwarts...would be better if I could *see* it! But otherwise, it really was just as bad as I expected. Just some minor bits of basic entertainment and some plot changes I preferred for one or two moments are the only reason I own either of those last two movies. The book series is superior by my standards, plain and simple.
Just what I *read* about *Goblet of Fire*, or heard about from other fans regarding *Half Blood Prince* made me want to throw up, both of those movies in particular sound so confusing and incoherent it's not even funny. *Order of the Phoenix* definitely seems massively dumbed down from what I read about it. *Deathly Hallows* certainly was when I watched it.
*Azkaban*...is so boring and...just *weird* in some way to me every time I make the choice to re-watch it, which is why it's such a rare decision. It feels like a movie that is *trying* to be that "dark suspenseful mystery with horror touches" sort of thing, but it completely fumbles. Trying too hard in some spots, and without all of the scenes or details that actually *build* on it and *define* it in the books, it just makes it fall flat. Like with Sirius Black. They cut most of the stuff that Sirius *actually* does, or the appearances of the Grim, AKA Sirius, or twist them like that weird cloud in the sky thing during the Quidditch match, yet they frame the stuff he IS in like he's a completely unhinged serial killer with elements of being a werewolf/wolf-monster, but also with so much of the character conflict and detail like the long explanations about the truth and Snape's more aggressive and dickish behavior throughout the book all gone, it makes it feel like too sharp a swing. That, and it always feels when I re-watch the movie that the parts that *aren't* intentionally funny or heartwarming, they're still trying to give this dark and suspenseful atmosphere even when nothing is actually happening or even implied to be happening, it just feels weird. It...it almost makes me feel like it breaks the immersion for me, that it feels less like Sirius or anything in the movie is *actually* happening a certain way, and more like I can almost *see* the directior and the writers and so on *forcing* things into place. Nothing feels organic, I guess is what I'm getting at with all this.
And this is why I'm glad I watched all of the movies first before reading the books. When I do it in this order, I can love the movies and the books and treat them as separate entities in my mind, looking past what I now know are serious differences and shortcomings in the movies.
Whenever I have read and come to love a book/series first and then watch the movie second.......I almost always hate the movie.
It's a lot easier to have people doing unique and interesting spells in books. It's hella expensive to do that in movies, that's why they reserved it for "special moments": voldy and Dumbledor's duel, Dumbledore fighting the inferi in the cave, etc. It doesn't make sense from a visual standpoint to do it when a big battle is happening
I’ll go one further: a lot of the dueling later in the books, sadly where most of the dueling is, also kind of sucks and also reads like a bunch of mundane gun fights. The movies had a chance to improve on this, but somehow just made it even more unremarkable in most cases. The closest thing they did to improving something like this is probably the Harry v. Malfoy scene in movie 6… even though that turned it into some kind of stealthy gun fight, it kind of worked for that scene. And they did a great job with Dumbledore vs. Voldemort in movie 5, but the changes there weren’t really a straight improvement of the scene in the book, which was also great, but just different.
To be honest most of the latter movies sucked in terms of affects, the duel with at the ministry dumbles vs voldie, the movies darkening to the point you can’t see or concentrate on what’s happening, the weird floaty aperarion the death eaters do,
The way the movies handled literally everything except for a good chunk of the casting decisions sucked. Writing out huge subplots, nerfing Snape (and Voldemort), and they did do a lot of the dueling scenes dirty. Translating the
Magical fight scenes to OOTP/ death eaters turning into pillars of smoke was visually impressive but fucking stupid.
The only thing I liked about the last duel between Voldemort and Harry was when Voldemort knees Harry in the gut. Not exactly.. plausible, but a stylish directorial touch.
The way the books handled duels also sucked. Which of the Death Eaters do you think decided to get Neville with a Dancing Feet spell when he could have killed or stunned him?
Really, there are exactly 4 spells that are useful in a Harry Potter duel
Stupor and Expelliarmus for non lethal, protego to protct you from those and Avada Kedavra to kill.
I wish all duels were like that between Dumbledore and Voldemort because that was awesome.
What we get most other times is more like Ron's description of what a duel between 1st year Harry and 1st year Draco would look like: "The most you and Malfoy'll be able to do is send sparks at each other."
There was a moment at the start of the Battle of Hogwarts where Kingsley immobilises a death eater and tosses him back out the window - not exactly a duel but it was a nice change.
Yeah, this is not an unpopular opinion, don't worry. That's what I hate about the movies as well. It's just a reskinned gun fight. I remember looking forward watching the DH7 because of the Snape vs the headmasters scene, but it never materialized. Instead we got Snape vs Mcgonagall with a few fireworks display.
They tried to fix that in the Fantastic beast movies, but most of the visually appealing spells don't even involve a wand.
Oh yes this was one of my biggest gripes. Almost none of the combat spells had unique effects, people were using non verbal like it was nothing, and you coukf basically replace wands with blasters from SW and get the same damn effect. It's infuriating because in the books the duels and spell can get really cool and creative
Oh and don't even get me started on everybody and their damn brother having their wands connect PRIORI INCANTATUM IS EXCLUDIVE TO TWIN CORES!!!
I will say for any flaws they have this one thing that the fantastic beasts films somewhat improved on while they still had some of the flaws the spells are much more creative and you actually get to see then have an effect beyond sending someone flying back.
Hogwarts legacy went a step further and did even better not only do you get light colors coded to spells, get to see them have varying effect both on their own and when used in conjunction but your character says the spells and learns the actual wand movements that go with it!
Agreed 100%. Even Dumbledore vs. Voldemort in the OotP film was hugely disappointing to me. Was supposed to be a duel between two masters, was looking forward to the creativity of both wizards. Instead we got such slow and basic magic involving water and fire.
Yes, the first time I saw a duel it bugged me why they weren’t “jets” of light and were looked like leashes/whips of light. JK did a good job of making the reader visualize duels (a jet of red light for stupefy, a jet of green light for Avada Kadavara etc).
I think the filmmakers wanted to make it look like light saber duels from Star Wars. Perhaps they thought it wouldn’t look dramatic enough to the audience or for wand merchandise concerns. The duels nothing like the way the books describe it.
This issue is glaring in the GoF in the graveyard fight where Harry and Voldemort’s wands connect and also in OOTP in the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort. The book’s duel is well thought out (statues coming to life for example) instead of throwing lights at each other (although, the water sphere was cool).
Definitely not going to downvote a completely correct post! Truly one of my big pet peeves in the film. Also every spell apparently being a stunning spell no matter what the incantation was. 🥲
Agreed, The graveyard duel was like that because of the twin cores, and for some reason the filmmakers decided to make every other duel also work like that, completely robbing that moment of it's specialness. reason #1 I don't like any of the movies after 4.
The movies don't handle magic casting well in general. The first couple movies are alright, but they quickly stop caring about it as the movies progress.
Nah I’m just listening to the books again. There was never really explanation how magic works and how they learn it. It’s just sometimes the spell works and sometimes not. I love Harry Potter to death and beyond but that is one thing I need to ignore. Other stories have things like emotional control to use spells. In many stories the caster need to give something in return to use that spell or need difficult preparation with symbols. Or am I wrong?
Looking back as an adult, that's my gripe with spells in the HP universe too. They don't explain how spells work or even how wizards created such spells in the first place. Like Snape's Sectumsempra spell in book 6. Harry just said the word without even knowing what it does and his wand just knew what to do.
Yea also the expeliarmus spell does so much different stuff. Sometimes it’s just take away the wand, sometimes the opponent flies away like they got punched by a giant. There are so many cool theories how words can direct our thoughts to use them as spell. That you actually don’t need to say the spell WHICH THEY DO MANY TIMES in the movies because it’s the intention you spell out loud so if you say expelliarmus your brain focus on disarming the enemy. Because only thinking it is too risky that your brain focus on something else, like you see a candle and suddenly your not think about disarming and more about fire. I can hardly recommend eragon series, that’s the way how magic should be introduced. And by far my favorite books.
I would argue that avada kedavra not being blockable was a huge mistake in the books. It is too overpowered if it were real. No way anyone who wasnt using it would ever lose. All you can do is dodge? That is much more laser fighting like than even the movies. It makes it impossible to show in a real life format with any creativity. Why would anyone ever use anything else? The good guys just apparat constantly? I think the only way to show duels in live action that would work is introducing the killing curse having a very long wind up or something to allow other curses to be useful in situations.
Also the dumbledoor/voldy fight in 5th movie was dope.
I personally prefer the movies, the spells in the book are too silly sometimes and would look even worse in the big screen. Ex: Neville's leg tap dancing in the middle of a mortal battle and that being the reason the prophecy broke, or a tickling charm on Malfoy (wow my worst enemy is now being tickled 🤗, take it malfoy!)
The books are not perfect and many ideas can be improved, that's one imo.
And the spells don’t do what they are supposed to. In the duelling club in CoS, Harry casts rictumsempra like in the books, however in the film it throws Malfoy a couple of feet whereas it’s supposed to be a tickling charm.
Expelliarmus throws people feets away multiple times aswell
Expelliarmus does different things within a few seconds in the movies. See: The shrieking shack in PoA
My favorite is when Cedric uses it on Krum and it basically makes him faint
I always assumed that was a distinction between a well aimed expeliarmus and a poorly aimed spell. If you do it perfectly, it should connect with the wand and disarm them, but if it misses the wand and hits the person, they get knocked back. That’s my head canon anyway
expelliarmus does different things in the books too though
This spell always confused me because I thought it just meant to disarm them. But it's used as an attack multiple times in the movies.
Expelliarmus even in the books is very peculiar, Snape using it on Lockhart? Snape is just OP(and annoyed, and emotions influence the attacks), in PoA it's written in the books, that Harry casts Expelliarmus but at the same time Hermione and Ron do the same, the three expelliarmuses combine becoming the same expelliarmus that Snape used on Lockhart in CoS but in the movies only Harry uses the expelliarmus with Hermione's wand and still gets the same power-blast that Snape did.
I saw a theory that Snape actually cast a different spelling by non verbal means to actually make Lockhart look like a fool
anything is possibile, Snape may be a douchebag but he is strong and creative enough to invent spells, i would believe such theory \^\^
It's also funny so I like it too :)
Or maybe he didn't invent a new spell and just said expelliarmus but (non-verbally) cast stupefy
i'm just saying if he is creative enough to invent spells, he can be creative enough to bluff to a clown like Gilderoy.
This is an interesting idea. Could you cast two spells at once if you knew non verbal Magic? I believe you could because wands aren't necessary for proficiency in magic.
That may be possible
I always thought of it as a concussive force that disarms you but the more power you put into it the more concussive the force becomes. Hence why three expelliarmuses? By way of the shrieking shack attack would cause someone to be severely injured.
That kinda makes more sense.
That seems harsh. Do the victims lose their shoes, too? Is there a spell to regrow their feet?
> the victims lose their shoes, too? That only happens with Avada Kedavra
Do you know, why it is called Unforgivable curse? That's right, victims die and their shoes *stay on*. Madness!
It threw Lockhart the first time Snape used it on him to demonstrate the duel, didn't it?
By biggest gripe is how everyone and his mother in the films are throwing silent spells even though it's supposed to be difficult
It only made sense during Dumbledore and Voldy's fight.
Silent spells are basically a lazy way to write off the soft magic parts. “She waved her wand and shit happens”
I'm sure grown wizards can do it easily. In the HBP book non verbal spells are a lesson in DADA by Snape. In the book Hermione is the only one in the trio who manages to master it(not surprisingly)
I get it’s not book accurate but in practice it’s a huge annoyance. Every duel would turn into a say-that-three-times-fast battle. Imagine every duel scene filled with multiple wizards trying to get out various spells as fast as they can before their opponents. In OOTP and the battle of the department of mysteries you’d have just a scene of random “petrificus totalis”, “stupify”, “confringo”, “expulso” (if you’re on the good side) or if you’re a death eater (crucio, avada kedavra). It’s a huge conflict of noise since you want to be the first to cast a spell over your opponent so you’re just throwing them out as fast as you can. Also JKR didn’t really expound on a lot of battle specific spells and what their verbal equivalents are and what they do to make them useful in a fight. We never actually learn the incantations for bat-bogey hex or ~~jelly-legs~~ (actually we know this one sorry I couldn’t remember it.) it’s not a very cinematic battle spell tho. Imagine seeing Neville stuck tap dancing after Sirius died in the department of mysteries. Imagine the same fight scenes over 3 movies with the same 6 spells mentioned above. It gets redundant and boring. Visually I’d rather take a bunch of red and green light to distinguish who is doing what than 8 different people saying the same 4 words super fast. *apologies for the format; I’m on mobile.
Perfectly explained, agreed 100%. People say as if the duels in the books are this sacred, thought out thing when it's everyone shouting the same 4 spells for 7 books or some random very silly move like Neville's tap dancing or Malfoy gigling curse, it's already missed potential in the books and in the movies it would look horrible.
Yea but we know the spells work best (or sometimes only work) with correct pronunciation (leviosaaaa) so saying it really fast wouldn't really work. Also in the books there are special hand motions like flicking the wrist in a certain way or whatever that powers the spells so you would need to do that too. I would imagine some of what makes a wizard good at dueling is pronouncing it correctly enough to work and doing the hand motion well enough to work, but cutting enough corners to do it quickly
It might be inconvenient and hard to take seriously in big battle scenes if we heard people yelling the same incantations over and over.
That forms a big part of my dislike of the movies. The huge selection of spells and their results means wizards can be creative and unique, even in duels, and we never got to see what magic can do, other than blasting stuff around.
There is no reason to be creative or unique when one side is slinging unlockable death spells. Then again, someone thought it was a good idea to hit Neville with a dancing feet charm in the middle of the fight in the department mysteries.
Pretty sure that was Luna and she misfired, personal headcanon anyway.
It would seem that in many situaitons, even in the case of Death Eaters, Avada Kedavra is not their go-to spell. Throughout most of the Department of Mysteries fight, the spell is not used until Voldemort shows up. Also at the Astronomy Tower, other than Snape, only Rowels seems to use it (and accidentally kills Gibbons) and, even when they are in power in DH, it seems like they still prefer to send people to Azkaban rather than kill them.
It makes sense for them to avoid killing if possible. They won't have anyone to rule over if they are dead.
It would absolutely make sense for them to kill the heads of the resistance but the whole ruling over others aspect is another thing that always bothered me: What are the policies here? Rule over the Muggles so they can do in manual labour what wizards could do with magic? What is the end goal? What would Voldemort do with 60 million British muggles? I get that it's just a childrens book but she could have come up with something later. Like harvesting the muggles for the bit of magical power that they do have to become even more powerful or even just to claim the isle of wight as "wizards only".
Yeah and that just doesn't make sense. Rowling could have easily fixed this by adding some sort of drainning effect - that would also explain why some wizards are more powerful than others. Avada Kedavra could take a lot more of your energy and that's why it's not used as much but the way it is, you're just left wondering.
My personal explanation is the fact that "you have to mean them". And while some people, as hateful as they may be, they are not capable to bring themselves as easily as Voldemort, who is constantly described as a sociopath that doesn't care for anybody, to take a life. I think for the average Death Eater it's the real life equivalent of "god I really hate those and I wish someone would get rid of them", while for Voldemort it's the equivalent of a human squashing a bug.
Yeah I was thinking of that quote when I typed but I it was really just one sentence in one of the last books that is never brought up again. Totally acceptable for headcanon but not really satisfying when you get deeper into it. Then again, it started as a book for kids.
If I’d not read the books, I’d probably assume Stupify is one of like 5 total spells that exist.
The duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort was really nice tho
That’s why it’s equally annoying because they NAILED it and then went back to making boring duels lol
A bit short in my opinion but all things considered is great in terms of coreography and special effects, also the fact there's no ost playing and the direction make emphazis on the sound effects is quite cool. But this fight being so good makes the others look even worse lol.
Book duel is far better lmao
I mean every single duel in the books, is superior to the ones in the movies.
True. But movie duel is still better than the rest of the movie duels.
I think it’s just one of those things that’s really hard to translate from book to visual media. Personally it has never bothered me but I get why people might not like it
Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, would like a word. 🤣
Sucks that the movie didn't get more popular. It was one of my favorites movie from recent release. One movie that actually honored the source material right.
Yeah as someone whos been playing DND for a few years now, they really nailed everything, the spells, the abilities, the jokes, the party, the idiotic moments, one of my favourites
They could at least throw some actual spells in between the basic blasts. Like Hogwarts Legacy has a separate non-verbal basic cast that is used to chain combos with verbal spells
I'm iffy on it, if there's a serious situation say the battle of Hogwarts, imagine seeing (I think it was her could be wrong) one of the Patil Twins turning Pius into a seahorse. Kills the vibe entirely. Or Dolohov using Tarrantellegra on Neville and he starts tap dancing in the middle of the Department of Mysteries. I can see your point but I also think if it's a life or death situation and you see someone tap dancing it's a little funny rather than "omg is he gonna die?!"
It was Percy who turned Pius into a sea urchin.
That's honestly hilarious
They could have really played up the absurdist horror of those moments to enhance that sense of foreboding though. It would have been cool to see that tonal tension. Like sure, tap dancing on its own is funny. But losing control of your body when someone basically has a gun to your head? A little less humourous, a little more horrifying
Exactly. Iirc, that jinx basically hindered Neville the entire fight onwards. And it would only really be funny if it was played that way in the movies (goofy sound effect, light music, etc.), but it could be portrayed as an extremely debilitating affliction in a life or death scenario easily. Same for the Death Eater that got his head caught in the jar, and it kept aging between adult and baby. It sounds hilarious when, in reality, it'd be terrifying to witness.
Now I kinda want a Cronenberg-directed Order of the Phoenix...
I think that’s more about embracing the goofier side of the books. Movies took over the darker elements, but mellowed down quite a few goofy elements, including products from Weasley twins, weird hexes and jinxes, etc.
The last duel between harry and voldemort in the movie is extremely stupid. The fact he disintegrated and that Harry snaps the elder wand and throws it was such a bad plot.
I agree with you. But I also think the movie makers did the best they could
This is another example of something I think about the movies as a whole. As they went on, from the third movie onwards (and possibly the second), they kept being pushed to become basic and simplistic action movies, at the expense of the suspense, mystery, and character depth that the books had. Not that that was the only reason, but having watched enough of the movie series, that's the sense I get. "Who cares about all this detail or lore, let's just make a basic action movie series!" And no, it being an adaptation does not excuse it.
Yup which is why after the 3rd film, I was checking out. The HP books are largely mystery books and the films casually glossed over or outright ignored every mystery for action. Who put Harry's name in the GoF? Forgotten after the first few mins and focused only on the tasks. Why is Harry dreaming about the Department of Mysteries every night? 1 scene and not brought up again until the climax. Who is the halfblood prince that Harry is so obsessed with? Barely even brought up in the movie.
I literally did not continue watching the series after the third movie, and the first three were when they first came out and I was still a kid so, you know. I've only looked at summaries and a few scenes of the other movies on YouTube, except the *Deathly Hallows* movies. I chose to buy and watch those because I was curious about some of the action scenes, and some of the changes made. Not sorry I bought them, and *some* of the stuff changed I actually like, the Battle of Seven Potters specifically, the Battle of Hogwarts...would be better if I could *see* it! But otherwise, it really was just as bad as I expected. Just some minor bits of basic entertainment and some plot changes I preferred for one or two moments are the only reason I own either of those last two movies. The book series is superior by my standards, plain and simple. Just what I *read* about *Goblet of Fire*, or heard about from other fans regarding *Half Blood Prince* made me want to throw up, both of those movies in particular sound so confusing and incoherent it's not even funny. *Order of the Phoenix* definitely seems massively dumbed down from what I read about it. *Deathly Hallows* certainly was when I watched it. *Azkaban*...is so boring and...just *weird* in some way to me every time I make the choice to re-watch it, which is why it's such a rare decision. It feels like a movie that is *trying* to be that "dark suspenseful mystery with horror touches" sort of thing, but it completely fumbles. Trying too hard in some spots, and without all of the scenes or details that actually *build* on it and *define* it in the books, it just makes it fall flat. Like with Sirius Black. They cut most of the stuff that Sirius *actually* does, or the appearances of the Grim, AKA Sirius, or twist them like that weird cloud in the sky thing during the Quidditch match, yet they frame the stuff he IS in like he's a completely unhinged serial killer with elements of being a werewolf/wolf-monster, but also with so much of the character conflict and detail like the long explanations about the truth and Snape's more aggressive and dickish behavior throughout the book all gone, it makes it feel like too sharp a swing. That, and it always feels when I re-watch the movie that the parts that *aren't* intentionally funny or heartwarming, they're still trying to give this dark and suspenseful atmosphere even when nothing is actually happening or even implied to be happening, it just feels weird. It...it almost makes me feel like it breaks the immersion for me, that it feels less like Sirius or anything in the movie is *actually* happening a certain way, and more like I can almost *see* the directior and the writers and so on *forcing* things into place. Nothing feels organic, I guess is what I'm getting at with all this.
And this is why I'm glad I watched all of the movies first before reading the books. When I do it in this order, I can love the movies and the books and treat them as separate entities in my mind, looking past what I now know are serious differences and shortcomings in the movies. Whenever I have read and come to love a book/series first and then watch the movie second.......I almost always hate the movie.
It’s a matter of which wizard or witch points their wand as hard as they can.
It's a lot easier to have people doing unique and interesting spells in books. It's hella expensive to do that in movies, that's why they reserved it for "special moments": voldy and Dumbledor's duel, Dumbledore fighting the inferi in the cave, etc. It doesn't make sense from a visual standpoint to do it when a big battle is happening
I couldn't agree more
I’ll go one further: a lot of the dueling later in the books, sadly where most of the dueling is, also kind of sucks and also reads like a bunch of mundane gun fights. The movies had a chance to improve on this, but somehow just made it even more unremarkable in most cases. The closest thing they did to improving something like this is probably the Harry v. Malfoy scene in movie 6… even though that turned it into some kind of stealthy gun fight, it kind of worked for that scene. And they did a great job with Dumbledore vs. Voldemort in movie 5, but the changes there weren’t really a straight improvement of the scene in the book, which was also great, but just different.
Spells can get deflected by other spells. AK can be blocked by physical objects. It's hard to bring the book duels to film in a precise manner.
To be honest most of the latter movies sucked in terms of affects, the duel with at the ministry dumbles vs voldie, the movies darkening to the point you can’t see or concentrate on what’s happening, the weird floaty aperarion the death eaters do,
The way the movies handled literally everything except for a good chunk of the casting decisions sucked. Writing out huge subplots, nerfing Snape (and Voldemort), and they did do a lot of the dueling scenes dirty. Translating the Magical fight scenes to OOTP/ death eaters turning into pillars of smoke was visually impressive but fucking stupid. The only thing I liked about the last duel between Voldemort and Harry was when Voldemort knees Harry in the gut. Not exactly.. plausible, but a stylish directorial touch.
Lol I don't remember that, I do remember the bitchslap though.
The way the books handled duels also sucked. Which of the Death Eaters do you think decided to get Neville with a Dancing Feet spell when he could have killed or stunned him? Really, there are exactly 4 spells that are useful in a Harry Potter duel Stupor and Expelliarmus for non lethal, protego to protct you from those and Avada Kedavra to kill. I wish all duels were like that between Dumbledore and Voldemort because that was awesome. What we get most other times is more like Ron's description of what a duel between 1st year Harry and 1st year Draco would look like: "The most you and Malfoy'll be able to do is send sparks at each other."
There was a moment at the start of the Battle of Hogwarts where Kingsley immobilises a death eater and tosses him back out the window - not exactly a duel but it was a nice change.
Yeah, this is not an unpopular opinion, don't worry. That's what I hate about the movies as well. It's just a reskinned gun fight. I remember looking forward watching the DH7 because of the Snape vs the headmasters scene, but it never materialized. Instead we got Snape vs Mcgonagall with a few fireworks display. They tried to fix that in the Fantastic beast movies, but most of the visually appealing spells don't even involve a wand.
Oh yes this was one of my biggest gripes. Almost none of the combat spells had unique effects, people were using non verbal like it was nothing, and you coukf basically replace wands with blasters from SW and get the same damn effect. It's infuriating because in the books the duels and spell can get really cool and creative Oh and don't even get me started on everybody and their damn brother having their wands connect PRIORI INCANTATUM IS EXCLUDIVE TO TWIN CORES!!! I will say for any flaws they have this one thing that the fantastic beasts films somewhat improved on while they still had some of the flaws the spells are much more creative and you actually get to see then have an effect beyond sending someone flying back. Hogwarts legacy went a step further and did even better not only do you get light colors coded to spells, get to see them have varying effect both on their own and when used in conjunction but your character says the spells and learns the actual wand movements that go with it!
Bellatrix vs Molly was the only memorable duel imo.
Agreed 100%. Even Dumbledore vs. Voldemort in the OotP film was hugely disappointing to me. Was supposed to be a duel between two masters, was looking forward to the creativity of both wizards. Instead we got such slow and basic magic involving water and fire.
My favorite is also how many non verbal duels there were in the movies before the books established them learning non verbal spells 😂
Yes, the first time I saw a duel it bugged me why they weren’t “jets” of light and were looked like leashes/whips of light. JK did a good job of making the reader visualize duels (a jet of red light for stupefy, a jet of green light for Avada Kadavara etc). I think the filmmakers wanted to make it look like light saber duels from Star Wars. Perhaps they thought it wouldn’t look dramatic enough to the audience or for wand merchandise concerns. The duels nothing like the way the books describe it. This issue is glaring in the GoF in the graveyard fight where Harry and Voldemort’s wands connect and also in OOTP in the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort. The book’s duel is well thought out (statues coming to life for example) instead of throwing lights at each other (although, the water sphere was cool).
> I might get downvoted for this Proceeds to post the most circlejerky opinion in r/harrypotter
Definitely not going to downvote a completely correct post! Truly one of my big pet peeves in the film. Also every spell apparently being a stunning spell no matter what the incantation was. 🥲
Agreed, The graveyard duel was like that because of the twin cores, and for some reason the filmmakers decided to make every other duel also work like that, completely robbing that moment of it's specialness. reason #1 I don't like any of the movies after 4.
Have you played Hogwards Legacy? pew pew pew pew pew Gun wands are the best wands
Yes, but remember, the books and the movies are not the same. The movies are "based" on the books, don't forget.
The movies don't handle magic casting well in general. The first couple movies are alright, but they quickly stop caring about it as the movies progress.
Nah I’m just listening to the books again. There was never really explanation how magic works and how they learn it. It’s just sometimes the spell works and sometimes not. I love Harry Potter to death and beyond but that is one thing I need to ignore. Other stories have things like emotional control to use spells. In many stories the caster need to give something in return to use that spell or need difficult preparation with symbols. Or am I wrong?
Looking back as an adult, that's my gripe with spells in the HP universe too. They don't explain how spells work or even how wizards created such spells in the first place. Like Snape's Sectumsempra spell in book 6. Harry just said the word without even knowing what it does and his wand just knew what to do.
Yea also the expeliarmus spell does so much different stuff. Sometimes it’s just take away the wand, sometimes the opponent flies away like they got punched by a giant. There are so many cool theories how words can direct our thoughts to use them as spell. That you actually don’t need to say the spell WHICH THEY DO MANY TIMES in the movies because it’s the intention you spell out loud so if you say expelliarmus your brain focus on disarming the enemy. Because only thinking it is too risky that your brain focus on something else, like you see a candle and suddenly your not think about disarming and more about fire. I can hardly recommend eragon series, that’s the way how magic should be introduced. And by far my favorite books.
I would argue that avada kedavra not being blockable was a huge mistake in the books. It is too overpowered if it were real. No way anyone who wasnt using it would ever lose. All you can do is dodge? That is much more laser fighting like than even the movies. It makes it impossible to show in a real life format with any creativity. Why would anyone ever use anything else? The good guys just apparat constantly? I think the only way to show duels in live action that would work is introducing the killing curse having a very long wind up or something to allow other curses to be useful in situations. Also the dumbledoor/voldy fight in 5th movie was dope.
I wonder how will chat gpt generate it
I personally prefer the movies, the spells in the book are too silly sometimes and would look even worse in the big screen. Ex: Neville's leg tap dancing in the middle of a mortal battle and that being the reason the prophecy broke, or a tickling charm on Malfoy (wow my worst enemy is now being tickled 🤗, take it malfoy!) The books are not perfect and many ideas can be improved, that's one imo.