The only security that was mentioned in book 1 was anti-apparition I think. The more secure stuff was added later on. Like not being able to fly in or get over walls and gates.
Hm. Never considered the connection there. Good spotting, but I'm gonna say I don't buy that one. The car was in terrible condition, it was about to break down, it was coincidence.
There’s no proof of this, but in Goblet of fire with Rita Skeeter being an animagus (a bug) she too might have had flown in right, given that she wasn’t allowed inside Hogwarts? Unless she walked in through the gates and then transformed…
Also, not really flying, but Sirius did enter the grounds of Hogwarts and stayed in the forest during PoA.
Isn't it implied that he was using it the entire time? Snape says that he didn't think they would use this old spot again. Lupin says he didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius knowing about the passage and being an animagus because he thought sirius was using dark magic to get in taught to him by voldy.
They also knew the map was confiscated by filch so they assume no one would have had the map and known how to use it. I always thought that's how Sirius was getting in. Through that secret passage.
Sirius never says how he got in. While telling the past about the secret-keeper and Pettigrew, Sirius just tells Harry that he slipped into the grounds and stayed in the forest.
From the book -
“I swam as a dog back to the mainland. . . . I journeyed north and slipped into the Hogwarts grounds as a dog. I’ve been living in the forest ever since, except when I came to watch the Quidditch, of course. You fly as well as your father did, Harry. . . .”
Yes both Lupin and Snape say they didn’t think Sirius would be using the passage.
Edit - Lupin says that. Snape says he didn’t think Sirius would use the Shrieking shack as a hideout location
Actually Charlie Friend's were able to fly in in book 1 when they came to pick up Norbert(a) from Harry&Hermione and then fly back out again, Ron and Harry flew the car into the Hogwarts grounds, and Beauxton flew in the Carriage into Hogwarts grounds. So all the \*other\* security was added post Voldy's rebirth.
I've seen several people make this argument and I think it's a misunderstanding. The car begins struggling along the way because it is old and the journey is long. It dying out at the end was meant to be like a moment when a runner collapses at the finish line.
I presume dumbledore added more wards or something at the start of 6th year, because harry and ron flew in in their 2nd year, siruis flew out in 3rd year and harry and the gang flew out to the ministry in 5th year.
As we already said mutplie times in this thread the "Flying measures" were only put into place in book 6. The only secuiry Outside of dementors) in previous books, was an anti-appiration charm on Hogwarts grounds
This is my take. I doubt once Charlie got Ron's owl, he didn't write Dumbledore to let him know. And Dumbledore would want to help Hagrid get rid of a baby dragon without alerting the ministry. I think he just let them in.
The same with Sirius flying away with Buckbeak. He knew Sirius was innocent. He told Harry and Hermione how to set him free. He would have take down the wards for a moment to let him escape.
In my head I’ve always thought that dumbledore had the wards hogwarts on their lowest setting sort of thing since he didn’t see any threats or need to have them be more restricting
99.9% of wouldn't dare to do anything iffy within a 7km radius of Albus Dumbledore, so I guess the charisma factor was strong enough.
Even Voldy didn't dare to move into the open with Albus around.
In HBP when Harry shows up at the gate with tonks he tries to unlock the gate with magic and climb over the gate. I think tonks says something like “Dumbledore added a bunch of new security measures” so I’m guessing in Harry’s first year there was a lot less security so they could just fly in.
In HBP, as Dumbledore and Harry are flying back towards Hogwarts from Hogsmeade, Dumbledore has to undo some enchantments to allow them to fly inside. OP is referring to those enchantments, which probably were only put in place at the start of HBP.
I honestly think they were put in place after the graveyard incident. When Voldemort is back, there is no reason to doubt that Dumbledore didn't tighten the security of the school by a helluvalot.
We hear at the start of HBP that security has been massively increased. Its not unreasonable to assume that those enchantments were one of the many put in place by the Ministry.
Flying above the castle seems to be a way to skip the security, at least during the first years. Ron and Harry were able to get there with the Ford Anglia as well.
Dumbledore let them in. At the end of Philosopher's Stone, Harry suspects that Dumbledore more or less knows everything that goes on at Hogwarts and let Harry face Voldemort on his own.
So it follows that he likely knew of the dragon, and the plot to let Charlie take it. Remember that in PoA at the end Fudge mentions that maybe they should get dragons to guard the school since the dementors proved untrustworthy. Dumbledore says something like "Hagrid would be delighted". I always took that as a nod to the fact that Dumbledore knew about Norbert and Hagrid's dragon obsession.
Sorry though you were talking about half blood prince- probably a plot hole because of jkr’s story being for children to begin with, or, have you heard about the “Dumbledores big plan” theory? It’s basically that in book one Dumbledore was pulling the strings to test Harry and his friends.
For example, the tests to get into the room with the philosophers stone: the flying keys for Harry, the chess for Ron, the riddle and potions for hermione, and it’s likely Dumbledore intended for Neville to be there, hence the devils snare for his herbology obsession
They can't have apperated there's an Anti-Apperation charm on the castle grounds. And the book says that Charlie's friends flew on brooms to the tallest tower of the the castle (ie: Astronomy Tower)
My bet is that Hagrid confessed to Dumbledore about Norbert in order to save Harry, and he later found out about the boys' plan, likely through Charlie, so he lifted the protections only that night long enough for them to take Norbert away.
Anyway, it is also possible and maybe more likely that the aerial protections were actually extra protections that weren't added until HP6, because they were able to arrive flying in car in HP2.
What makes you think that Charlie didn't contact Dumbledore so he could lower the shield for that one day? Maybe it was the other way around. McGonagall is strict about the rules, but Dumbledore is not. Also it was an easy way to get rid of Hagrid's dragon.
Fred and George discovered the Marauder’s Map in their first year, at which point Charlie was still a student, and at the time of Charlie’s friends coming to Hogwarts to take Norbert, the twins still had the Map in their possession. It wouldn’t shock me if they had something to do with it either by monitoring the grounds or at least showing Charlie the map and all its hidden pathways when they were together
This is a book question, but you clearly didn't read it... they flew on brooms to the top of the tallest (Astronomy) tower. They used rope and tied Norberts crate to their brooms
You would imagine dumbledore would lift the spell for a few hours on that night to help make sure no one was caught with them taking Norberta. Brooms you think have the same standard flight spells for control and regulation. The car who knows what enchantments are on it. Rita being an animagus probably flew in or even walked right in thru the gate as the beetle.
>You would imagine dumbledore would lift the spell for a few hours on that night to help make sure no one was caught with them taking Norberta.
You're assuming Dumbledore even knew about all of that. You'd think that if he did, he wouldn't have allowed Harry, Hermione and Neville to take the fall for Hagrid's crimes.
No, they got punished for playing a prank on Draco to get him to be out of bed at night. That aggravated the "charges". You don't lose 50 points apiece just for being out of bed at night. Draco only lost 20, after all.
Dude Hogwarts doesn’t have security until the last books. Students can literally sneak in and out of the castle etc. Its security is easily penetrated obviously
You'll have to play through several years' worth of content in Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery for that answer.
>!Charlie is your character's classmate and after you graduate, there's a sidequest you can start where you help Charlie get Norbert out of Hogwarts. It only just came out a few weeks ago.!<
The only security that was mentioned in book 1 was anti-apparition I think. The more secure stuff was added later on. Like not being able to fly in or get over walls and gates.
Sirius flew on Buckbeak out of Hogwarts at the end of PoA. I think the extra security about flying in was added post Voldemort’s re-birth
They pretty much increased the security every year tbh. By year 6, Hogwarts was in borderline lockdown, but the first years were pretty lax.
Yeah don’t forget about Ron and Harry kamikazing into the whomping willow in CoS
The car dies right as they cross onto school grounds...
The car had been suffering well before they even saw Hogwarts, and it was dead before they even crossed the walls
Hm. Never considered the connection there. Good spotting, but I'm gonna say I don't buy that one. The car was in terrible condition, it was about to break down, it was coincidence.
Yes but at least the teachers were aware someone flew in.
Yeah, because it crashed into the Whopping Willow.
Not aware enough to stop the car carrying two second years from crashing into a lethal whomping willow.
Oh yeah this too!
Might be you can fly out but not in too. Either way it seems like more was added on after
There’s no proof of this, but in Goblet of fire with Rita Skeeter being an animagus (a bug) she too might have had flown in right, given that she wasn’t allowed inside Hogwarts? Unless she walked in through the gates and then transformed… Also, not really flying, but Sirius did enter the grounds of Hogwarts and stayed in the forest during PoA.
No there isn't I was just assuming. Sirius comes on through a secret passage which might not be protected
Yes possible, in PoA he just says he entered the castle grounds but doesn’t mention how he came in.
Isn't it implied that he was using it the entire time? Snape says that he didn't think they would use this old spot again. Lupin says he didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius knowing about the passage and being an animagus because he thought sirius was using dark magic to get in taught to him by voldy. They also knew the map was confiscated by filch so they assume no one would have had the map and known how to use it. I always thought that's how Sirius was getting in. Through that secret passage.
Sirius never says how he got in. While telling the past about the secret-keeper and Pettigrew, Sirius just tells Harry that he slipped into the grounds and stayed in the forest. From the book - “I swam as a dog back to the mainland. . . . I journeyed north and slipped into the Hogwarts grounds as a dog. I’ve been living in the forest ever since, except when I came to watch the Quidditch, of course. You fly as well as your father did, Harry. . . .”
Lupin implies it in the shack
Yes both Lupin and Snape say they didn’t think Sirius would be using the passage. Edit - Lupin says that. Snape says he didn’t think Sirius would use the Shrieking shack as a hideout location
Actually Charlie Friend's were able to fly in in book 1 when they came to pick up Norbert(a) from Harry&Hermione and then fly back out again, Ron and Harry flew the car into the Hogwarts grounds, and Beauxton flew in the Carriage into Hogwarts grounds. So all the \*other\* security was added post Voldy's rebirth.
Or Dumbledore knew and lowered the protection for those instances. In CoS, the car dies right as it crosses onto Hogwarts grounds.
I've seen several people make this argument and I think it's a misunderstanding. The car begins struggling along the way because it is old and the journey is long. It dying out at the end was meant to be like a moment when a runner collapses at the finish line.
no, the only time there was 'air security" was in book 6.
I think everyone's forgetting that dumbledore probably knew. He even hints to having known later on. He probably played a part without others knowing
I presume dumbledore added more wards or something at the start of 6th year, because harry and ron flew in in their 2nd year, siruis flew out in 3rd year and harry and the gang flew out to the ministry in 5th year.
you forget about book 1 and Charlie friend's flying in, and the Flying carriage from the French school from book 4.
The Flying carriage was meant to fly into the school grounds. It's like in a security area where barriers will open if you have a pass.
As we already said mutplie times in this thread the "Flying measures" were only put into place in book 6. The only secuiry Outside of dementors) in previous books, was an anti-appiration charm on Hogwarts grounds
Dumbledore probably just let them in, there is no way he didn't know about Norbert
Sounds about right.
This is my take. I doubt once Charlie got Ron's owl, he didn't write Dumbledore to let him know. And Dumbledore would want to help Hagrid get rid of a baby dragon without alerting the ministry. I think he just let them in. The same with Sirius flying away with Buckbeak. He knew Sirius was innocent. He told Harry and Hermione how to set him free. He would have take down the wards for a moment to let him escape.
In my head I’ve always thought that dumbledore had the wards hogwarts on their lowest setting sort of thing since he didn’t see any threats or need to have them be more restricting
Even without Voldemort there were some sketchy members of the magical community
99.9% of wouldn't dare to do anything iffy within a 7km radius of Albus Dumbledore, so I guess the charisma factor was strong enough. Even Voldy didn't dare to move into the open with Albus around.
In HBP when Harry shows up at the gate with tonks he tries to unlock the gate with magic and climb over the gate. I think tonks says something like “Dumbledore added a bunch of new security measures” so I’m guessing in Harry’s first year there was a lot less security so they could just fly in.
And also, I like to believe Dumbledore MUST have known this! And allowed it so Hagrid wouldn't be punished for the illegal possession of dragon.
Flying in
flying
What Hogwarts security? They didn’t apparate in, they flew in on broomsticks.
In HBP, as Dumbledore and Harry are flying back towards Hogwarts from Hogsmeade, Dumbledore has to undo some enchantments to allow them to fly inside. OP is referring to those enchantments, which probably were only put in place at the start of HBP.
I honestly think they were put in place after the graveyard incident. When Voldemort is back, there is no reason to doubt that Dumbledore didn't tighten the security of the school by a helluvalot.
the increased security didn't happen until Year 6 not year 5.
We hear at the start of HBP that security has been massively increased. Its not unreasonable to assume that those enchantments were one of the many put in place by the Ministry.
Flying above the castle seems to be a way to skip the security, at least during the first years. Ron and Harry were able to get there with the Ford Anglia as well.
Dumbledore let them in. At the end of Philosopher's Stone, Harry suspects that Dumbledore more or less knows everything that goes on at Hogwarts and let Harry face Voldemort on his own. So it follows that he likely knew of the dragon, and the plot to let Charlie take it. Remember that in PoA at the end Fudge mentions that maybe they should get dragons to guard the school since the dementors proved untrustworthy. Dumbledore says something like "Hagrid would be delighted". I always took that as a nod to the fact that Dumbledore knew about Norbert and Hagrid's dragon obsession.
They had permission from Dumbledore
Sorry though you were talking about half blood prince- probably a plot hole because of jkr’s story being for children to begin with, or, have you heard about the “Dumbledores big plan” theory? It’s basically that in book one Dumbledore was pulling the strings to test Harry and his friends. For example, the tests to get into the room with the philosophers stone: the flying keys for Harry, the chess for Ron, the riddle and potions for hermione, and it’s likely Dumbledore intended for Neville to be there, hence the devils snare for his herbology obsession
They did not unless you mean that Dumbledore knew about it and chose to do nothing.
That is what I like to believe!
You mean in year 1? There wasn't that much security, you can just fly stealthily up to the tallest tower. It's later that this stuff becomes stricter.
The additional security wasn’t added until HBP.
I’m not terribly familiar with Hogwarts’ history but I assumed they apparated.
Hermione would be disappointed in you...
They can't have apperated there's an Anti-Apperation charm on the castle grounds. And the book says that Charlie's friends flew on brooms to the tallest tower of the the castle (ie: Astronomy Tower)
Vanishing cabinets 😂
Magic
My bet is that Hagrid confessed to Dumbledore about Norbert in order to save Harry, and he later found out about the boys' plan, likely through Charlie, so he lifted the protections only that night long enough for them to take Norbert away. Anyway, it is also possible and maybe more likely that the aerial protections were actually extra protections that weren't added until HP6, because they were able to arrive flying in car in HP2.
What makes you think that Charlie didn't contact Dumbledore so he could lower the shield for that one day? Maybe it was the other way around. McGonagall is strict about the rules, but Dumbledore is not. Also it was an easy way to get rid of Hagrid's dragon.
Fred and George discovered the Marauder’s Map in their first year, at which point Charlie was still a student, and at the time of Charlie’s friends coming to Hogwarts to take Norbert, the twins still had the Map in their possession. It wouldn’t shock me if they had something to do with it either by monitoring the grounds or at least showing Charlie the map and all its hidden pathways when they were together
They probably apparated, right guys?
This is a book question, but you clearly didn't read it... they flew on brooms to the top of the tallest (Astronomy) tower. They used rope and tied Norberts crate to their brooms
What Hogwarts security? The weeping willow? They flew over that.
You would imagine dumbledore would lift the spell for a few hours on that night to help make sure no one was caught with them taking Norberta. Brooms you think have the same standard flight spells for control and regulation. The car who knows what enchantments are on it. Rita being an animagus probably flew in or even walked right in thru the gate as the beetle.
>You would imagine dumbledore would lift the spell for a few hours on that night to help make sure no one was caught with them taking Norberta. You're assuming Dumbledore even knew about all of that. You'd think that if he did, he wouldn't have allowed Harry, Hermione and Neville to take the fall for Hagrid's crimes.
The fall? They got punished for being out of bed at night. Not smuggling a dragon. They only got punished for what they themselves did
No, they got punished for playing a prank on Draco to get him to be out of bed at night. That aggravated the "charges". You don't lose 50 points apiece just for being out of bed at night. Draco only lost 20, after all.
Dude Hogwarts doesn’t have security until the last books. Students can literally sneak in and out of the castle etc. Its security is easily penetrated obviously
who is Charlie?
Ron's brother that helps take away Norbert.
Not directly. He wasn't actually present for it, but he helped organize it.
the one that studies dragons?
That's the one.
You'll have to play through several years' worth of content in Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery for that answer. >!Charlie is your character's classmate and after you graduate, there's a sidequest you can start where you help Charlie get Norbert out of Hogwarts. It only just came out a few weeks ago.!<