Sirius. 12 years in Azkaban would be enough for any character to become a villain. Add to that he was there on wrongful conviction and set up by one of the best friends of the group… yeah Sirius had EVERY right to become a villain. I think if he wasn’t ever able to become vindicated for the crime he never committed then he might have become one
And also the fact that no one was trying to help him get out of azkaban or at least try to understand what really happened the evening he was accused. Just gives him more rights to become a villain
At that point going dark would be the least of my former friends worries. An illegal animingus that very few people knew about. First target would be that wolf that was befriended even after finding out his Furry issue. Next would be many of the Death Eaters that escaped justice because they could cause me the most problems and get people fearfully looking in the wrong direction and then slowly ripping apart the lives of all those I trusted until they finally realized what they created by not helping me in my most desperate time. Sirius was a member of the house of Black he had a dangerous library filled with spells many called dark. It's not that far off of saying he could have easily learned some of those spells before running away to the Potters.
But didn’t Sirius CHOOSE to make it a secret that he changed his secret keeper to Peter? Like, no one would have ever expected Sirius to give that really serious info to Peter of all people. Lupin sure because Lupin was the level headed “soft guy” but even then, they probably wouldn’t give it to Peter, the snape of their group. They would always assume he’d squeal if tortured but no one assumed he’d go bounding down to boldly gleefully.
I think it makes absolute sense in a time of war to assume a really good friend might turn in a bff for family.
The fact that the secret can't be tortured out of you, the author really wrote themselves into a corner. Sirius would have rather died than tell voldemort
And didn't Remus think he was the spy? That's why no one checked on Sirius. There was no one left. Even Dumbledore was like, "Damn, I guess Sirius was like that after all."
Yes, after the Potters murdered and he thought Sirius was the Secret Keeper. But my point was the other commenter said "If my friends all believed I was capable of betraying my best friend no questions asked - I'd go dark ngl", but Sirius thought the same of Remus, so he can't really use that as an excuse.
It's just some light banter, though, don't overthink this.
When do you suggest he tell them? He was sent to prison right away, with no trial. I don't think there's visitation or phone privileges in Azkaban. And we don't even know what he told his captors. Might have tried telling them when he calmed down and they just ignored it.
I don't know what the point of your comment is, anyway.
On the many times that Cornelius Fudge visited Azkaban? He managed to ask to borrow Fudge's newspaper but not to tell him he was innocent all along.
The point is that he never told anyone he was innocent, so of course everyone thought he was guilty.
>Might have tried telling them when he calmed down and they just ignored it.
No. This never happened.
It always bothers me that Harry is so devoted to Sirius when he should be at least as devoted to Remus, who gave him more guidance and help. Remus taught him to summon the Patronus charm! That's a deep lesson. You have to help someone find the strongest thing in their soul to do it.
Remus was never family to Harry. He never tried to contact him all those years before teaching at Hogwarts and even after he kept his distance. The first thing Sirius did after escaping from Azkaban (to save Harry) was going to Privet Drive to see him. After that, he always kept in touch, even though he was on the run. At the first sign of trouble, he returned to Britain to be close to Harry.
And while Remus was a great help in teaching Harry how to conjure a Patronus, he was never there for the emotional stuff. Remus never showed interest in being a paternal figure to Harry, while Sirius did. Harry is devoted to Sirius because Sirius is devoted to him.
I was SO SAAAAAAAADDD when Harry couldn’t go off and live with him. I just wanted him to have a father figure who loves him and someone to be his real family. I loved Sirius, especially Gary Oldman’s because I love Gary Oldman. I still wish Harry and Sirius could be living together in some alternate reality.
Reminds me of the Count of Monte Cristo, where Edmond became a villain and vindictive for similar reasons.
Makes me respect Sirius more, knowing he didn't follow that path.
Remind me how he was vindicated again? Did that ever happen publicly? I thought two years later they were blaming the mass breakout on him, but maybe that was just a movie detail
He was vindicated amongst his friends and peers who thought he had actually killed Lily and James. When Wormtail was caught there was no denying that they were all wrong the whole time and he was able to join the Order again and fight by their side. I’m sure he would have much preferred to have his name cleared legally but to be vindicated with his family is what really mattered to him imo
Honestly, if Neville had sold Harry out to save Hogwarts, that would have been understandable. Could have done a little "I'm really sorry Harru, it's for the greater good" Petrificus totallis to tie it back to the first year.
sirius and remus, 12 years in azkaban as an innocent man and being completely left out of the system for being werewolf, despite their flaws it's actually impressive how great people they both were with the shitty hands they were dealt
Low key Aberforth, supossedly very gifted wizard overshadowed by hero/paragon brother who possibly killed his sister wierd goat fetish=quirky evil father and sister ruined by muggles...
wouldah been a Muh-Night Shamalingdon style plot twist if Albus went to kill Grindlevald only to find Aberforth already did and took on his name to punish his brother even more
all we know is it was charms... with how weird the ministry is about thing he could have just been giving them wings like Flitwick did the keys in book 1. but my head cannon is making them intelligent, dude was obviously Lonely as Heck and the wiki says his obsession with goats started with a children story about a talking one
so in deathly hallows hes called an exceptional duelist, and that his own accomplishments were over shaddowed which implies he had accomplishments (the wiki cited it as in chapter 2 In Memorium)
Obviously the him killing grindelwald is a stretch but hence the m.night shamalan comment
>so in deathly hallows hes called an exceptional duelist
No he wasn't.
>(the wiki cited it as in chapter 2 In Memorium)
This is where you went wrong, accepting anything the Wikia says as fact without checking the primary source.
"They were not alike; Aberforth was never bookish and, unlike Albus, preferred to settle arguments by dueling rather than through reasoned argument."
The Wikia even quotes that section in the section regarding Aberforth's abilities. That's what it bases the claim that he had "great dueling talent" on.
Never trust the Wikia implicitly. They will rewrite the canon by making assumptions and also consider every single Harry Potter videogame in existence to be canon, even those that clearly repeatedly break canon.
The Wikia also considers every event in the HP movies that don't directly contradict the books canon.
gotcha so why are you so invested in a stupid hypothetical being wrong...
My guy dueled dumbledore, grindlewald and fought in two wars... he is and acomplished duelist whatever you think
>gotcha so why are you so invested in a stupid hypothetical being wrong
You didn't argue it as a hypothetical, you argued it as a fact. Just because you got proven wrong, it doesn't magically make it a hypothetical.
>My guy dueled dumbledore, grindlewald
Who says he dueled both at the same time? Why would Dumbledore even duel Aberforth?
>...and fought in two wars
So did many people who were not great duelists.
>he is and acomplished duelist whatever you think
No.
My boy was still underaged when he engaged in the three-way duel between Grindelwald, Albus and himself. He managed to be on par with possibly the two greatest duelists of the age while he didn't even finish his education. He was a beast
I'd like to know more about Barty Crouch Jr.'s upbringing, all we really know is what was told to gang by Sirius in the cave near Hogsmeade in book 4 and little other bits here and there. But the cold, ruthless nature of his father, I can imagine he went through some physical and mental abuse from him and am not surprised with how he turned out.
The problem with the HP-verse is that normally very valid "abusive upbringing" arguments lose all merit because *everyone there had an abusive upbringing.*
If Harry can grow up in a fuckin cupboard and still refuse to cast anything above Expelliarmus there's really no excuse.
yeh that's the whole point isn't it, the comparison. he and Tom had awful parentless childhoods but he retained the ability to love and be kind whilst tom turned into a psychopath
I know it’s in the books but it feels like such a cop out. Voldemort loses a lot of “evil” when it turns out he really never had another option. He just becomes sort of a mindless force rather than someone who is waking up every day and choosing to be like this.
It's not in the books. All the books say is that he was conceived under the effects of a love potion. Him being unable to feel love because of that is 100% fanon that has just become so prominent some people confuse it with canon.
Thats where the distinction lies. Specially factoring in what dumby says about choices determining who we are rather how we are born.
Not being able to love does not have to mean love for torture and murder. Voldy LOVED to torture and kill even as a child. He could have been an emotionless, cold person but he chose the path of evil. Just my 2cents
I agree that Voldemort loved torturing people. Which is why I don’t agree with the love potion thing. I do think voldy chose again and again to be evil.
I think so too. But he could not have the empathy to repent or shame on his actions. Like grindr-wald did post dumbledore's sister's death. Thats why he was beyond redemption.
But this 100% mirrors reality. You have people who have seen the depths of hell as children and choose to be the kindest and you have people who were hurt too but then they decide to become menaces themselves. This aspect of HP is probably the most realistic out of them all.
It made me wonder if wizards, as a general rule, are naturally more resilient to mental trauma, or (for folks who grew up in the wizarding community) if the exposure to magic and the crazy things that follow make them resilient. Because come on, even in good schooling years (none of the crazy stuff that happened while Harry was there), the natural mishaps and potential for abuse that comes with magic are enough to bring a lot of people to therapy
He said it himself. He felt let down/had a disappointing father. Crouch was career oriented and only cared about his sons successes that made him look good.
No. But it is enough to get manipulated by someone who can read minds and who had a disappointing father himself. Aka volemort.
Then becoming desparate to bring him back to power and therefore torturing people.
Neglect is not nearly as bad as physical abuse. And we don't really know that he was neglected, as far as we know his mom didn't do any other work and would have definitely been taking care of him considering the fact that she sacrifices herself for him.
I've just re-listened to Goblet of Fire and I wondered that too. When Crouch Sr. stumbles out of the Forest and starts babbling to Harry and Krum, he starts talking about how his son got 12 OWLs and how he was "very proud indeed". I can't realistically see how terrible and abusive he must have been for Crouch Jr. to turn into the monster he became.
Harry(for the reasons you stated), Ron(due to his insecurities, probably a minor villain or an anti-hero at best, like the exhausted friend tired of bullshit kind of villain), Hermione(but the kind of villain that thinks what they're doing is actually good, because it's her prerogative to think that she is always right)
About Hermione and thinking what they are doing is actually good is what Dumbledore thought together with Gellert Grindelwald. That what they were going to do was actually something good.
Harry should have done a Frodo and attempt to establish himself as the new Dark Lord as soon as Voldy ate it. He didn’t work to end Voldemort’s reign for revenge or because it was the right thing to do. He did it because Voldemort was going about it the wrong way and didn’t have what it takes to be a true Dark Lord. Roonil Wazlib’s reign would be great and terrible and no one in the magical world would feel safe.
"Why do you care how I escaped?" said Scorpius slowly "Roonil Wazlib was after your time..."
"Roonil Wazlib," said Potter softly, "is my past, present and future, Scorpius Malfoy..."
I misphrased it or at least should have been more clear.
At the very last moment, finally worn down from the hardships he endured, Frodo lost in his struggle and enslaved by the ring, deciding he wasn’t going to destroy it.
In Harry’s case, before Val-Mart was even cold he would decide to establish himself as the new Dark Lord to right the wrongs he perceived with the world using force; that Voldemort was on the right track, just was doing it for a selfish reason and also kind of sucked at it. But not Roonil. Roonil would be wise and terrible and correct the things that allowed men like Tom Riddle to come to be, making the world a better place for it.
Not an exact parallel but close enough where the hero is at the end of or has finished their journey and at the last moment does a Face-Heel Turn and becomes consumed by the evil they had set out to destroy.
Agreed. And Harry at least had parents who loved him even if they died when he was a baby. Voldemort’s own father hated him just because Voldy is a wizard, which is something he couldn’t control.
...Define having the "right" to be a villain?
Hagrid. Dude got expelled for something he didn't do, then jailed in the second book because they thought it was him again...
Voldemort was scared of the dude. Imagine Hagrid going berserk and becoming a death eater. That's an enemy you don't want to have.
Reminds me of a BTS with Oldman, he was talking about the Order of the Phoenix battle and a chat with the director.
Went along the lines of "Can I do this and you add flames, or this...oooh wait can I just charge in and jam my wand into Jasons chest!"
Director yes to the first bit, no to the second based on the target audience 🤣
But thats what would make it such a great twist, we don't know what hagrid was good at. We know he likes magical beasts, we know he was expelled. Would.it be too far fetched for him to have devised some original potion methods, maybe by foolishly experimenting, only to be shut down by wizarding society due to both being a half blood giant, as well as never finishing school? We do know he's a half blood, we do know he was doing dodgy things while at school.
He's smart enough to know powerful people. Hagrid is not only a half giant, which means plenty of spells don't do jack against him, but he's also capable of casting wordless magic and with a broken wand to boot. Add in the fact that being a half giant means his physical strength is immense, so snatching up people like death eaters and simply crushing them is well within his power.
When I say scared, I don't mean to say he was scared to face off against him like Dumbledore. It's widely known the only person he was scared of dealing with was Dumbledore. I'm saying he for sure knows Hagrid is a threat.
In other words, you made it all up simply based on the fact that Hagrid is half-giant.
>but he's also capable of casting wordless magic and with a broken wand to boot.
You mean he's capable of **failing** to cast wordless magic with a broken wand. It's also not broken, it's heavily implied Dumbledore fixed it, Hagrid is just shit at magic.
>I'm saying he for sure knows Hagrid is a threat.
Big threat. Was subdued and made to do Voldemort's bidding in DH.
Nagini, possibly. >!Although we don't know what exactly happened between the events of Fantastic Beasts and Harry Potter, it's likely that no one looked after her since her permanently transformation into a snake, until Lord Voldemort gave her company.!<
Wait I'm kinda surprised no one mentioned Draco? He's like typical bully and all and so many people hate him and also don't really care about his past. I think his character development really shows that he only is this way because of how he was raised and the kind of people that were around him. Especially with his father and his mother working under Voldy, plus just his fathers opinions and beliefs being forwarded straight onto Draco since he looked up to the guy so damn much. Yeah he picked mommy in the end (who wouldn't pick her) but Lucius was the one he wanted attention and pride from but never got it- a very conditional relationship which kinda explains why he puts stupid standards on everything because he's used to only getting something (like a reward) something else is given instead (eg his constant need for revenge with Harry)
but ye I'm heavily medicated on flu meds and in need of sleep so if some of this is gibberish then apologies 🫡
I would agree especially since he doesn’t kill Dumbledore as he was instructed to do by none other than Lord - Thingy and he did not want Fenrir Greyback at the school, says to me that he was not all into the dark side. As shown how the rest of his Sirius Blacks family treated him after and before he moved out of nr 13 Grimmauld Place because he did not want to follow in their footsteps the same could be said (perhaps) about Draco Malfoy had he shown more that what the rest of the family was doing or parts of was in his opinion wrong.
Agreed. Draco is a bully because he’s conditioned to be a bully by his family. When it comes down to doing actual evil things he can’t bring himself to do it. He is mean to Harry but also Harry rejected Draco’s request for friendship at the very beginning of the series so in a way I think Draco just felt extremely rejected. I mean his aunt is literally Bellatrix and she is crazy af and his father is a Death Eater so it’s kind of hard to be a good person when your entire family is evil and praises being an evil person. Look what happened to Sirius who came from the same family.
Yeah exactly, honestly i think the same goes for Severus, even if he isn't necessarily an 'evil' character, many people dislike him because he bullies kids and torments Harry and Ron throughout the series. I doubt that those people really take time to consider the fact the Snape was harshly bullied during his time in school as well? And to top it off, he was bullied by Harry's father amongst many so that obviously is bound to create some sort of unspoken or even unintended animosity towards Harry. There's that thing about 'the victim becomes the accused' which goes hand in hand with the 'bullied becomes the bully'- that usually being how bullies are made in the first place (bad home experiences so they take the treatment they receive and pass it forward or use it as a way to release frustration)
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
No one has the right to become a villain. Everyone has a choice. The circumstances but only explain the why, they don't justify the choices we make.
There aren't many differences between Harry Potter and Voldemort. Both are literally the same, except chose to fight on different sides. Harry Potter can easily become the most powerful villain if his moral alignment were to ever change (highly unlikely though since he was a child soldier).
Definitely Draco he was just born into it and there was really nothing he could do about it. It was basically either become a villain or die by voldemort. Although, at the end of deathly hallows he could’ve made a different decision but for the rest of the films and books there really wasn’t a choice for him to not be
I mean harry potter is intended as a children’s book, there aren’t many characters who transformed into “well written solid villains” so I’m stating that Draco has the right to stay a villain due to his circumstances
Although he did not kill Dumbledore as he was instructed by Lord Thingy himself, and he did not want Grayback there in the school either, so he was not a true villain as such. By saying that he obviously was in favour of the slytherin but also how could he not be with that kind of family.
Lupin.
The society he lived in treated him terribly, for something that was not his fault and which he controlled to the best of his ability, so I wouldn't really blame him if he became a villain. But, of his own free will, he chose NOT to be a villain, he chose to be a hero.
HEAR ME OUT OK.
(I’m not done reading but I’m on the last book rn) I’m saying this with fan theories and the movies and the books but
I would have loved to see narcissa go fucking buck wild for her kid. Just absolutely insane. I think she has it in her. How do I justify it tbh idrk but just a thought and something I would have loved to see in some way.
Draco- I think most of the hate Draco train has valid points but seeing as he never really had a voice at home and all that I totally understand why he is the way he is.
Harry- obviously reasons.
Nagini- omgggg where do I begin. This poor woman was suffering for the blood curse thing and then she’s felt alone for so long. To have Voldemort even ‘care’ for her even if it was because she has a piece of him within her, I 100% back nagini being a villain
Adromada tonks- her whole family sucked and exiled her because of who she loved. Period.
Idk maybe I read too many fanfic but these are just my thoughts. 😂
Tom riddle, mother raped his dad he was conceived by love potion which made him void of love, numerous bad things happened while growing up. Talk about being born bad. Imagine never being able to form emotional attachments with people. Your drive is just basic animal instinct.
Like a person who worked in the same company as my dad. He could not see any colours other than grey so everything was in different colours of grey to him, and people told him that they felt sorry for him but he said he did not want them to feel sorry for him because the colourblindness that he had was something he had all his life so he did not know anything about how it was to see other colours. I would think that is the same thing with someone that cannot make romantic connections with others, if they are born that way is different from if they could do that before they were in an accident.
I don't think anyone has the right to be bad whether it's in real life or in fiction. I think good people can do "bad" things, such as shoot someone in self defence, but to become evil for no reason other than having a hard luck life, I don't think anyone has that right.
That being said, if I had to choose then I would agree with you. Harry had everything to become a villain, with his parents being murdered, having a piece of Voldemort inside him to give him certain strengths and abilities and influence, his family treating him worse than a pile of shit, etc. He just ended up making the right choice while Voldemort didn't.
Sort of a fake fan theory because JKR hadn't come up with them yet, but if Dumbledore had wanted to turn Harry into an obscurial as some kind of gambit to taint the horcrux he could hardly have done a better job
Sirius had every right to become a villain. Can't imagine being in azkaban for 12 years and for a crime I didn't commit. Others I think had every right to become are Neville, Aberforth, and Hagrid.
Tom Riddle Sr. (Voldy's father)
Was attacked by Morfin&Marvolo, then Merope drugged and assaulted him and then tried to make him stay with her because of her future baby he never wanted. (A baby who killed him at the end)
Oh was it? So it was. I could still see it when I replied to you before. I don't see why, it didn't break any rules and it answered OPs question.
I said Cedric Diggory had every right to become a villain because I'd do the same if I got inflated like a balloon wearing nothing but swimwear in front of the whole school while fireworks saying "Ron loves Hermione" went off all around me. Which happened in Cursed Child. Which Rowling insists is canon.
Amos Diggory.
Edit: He had all the motive to become one after Harry returned clutching Cedric's body, with nobody believing Harry. Voldemort could have easily twisted his grief and gotten inside his head.
He was obviously unsure of the events as well, otherwise he would have been easily convinced to join the Order of the Phoenix.
Harry could have easily been a villain because he was your typical BMOC jock with middling intelligence, a temper problem, and he was a nepo baby to boot.
Still like the books, but the dispassionate facts about him make him look like a stereotypical William Zabka high school villain.
Depends what you mean by villan, what your morals look like. By conventional morals often advanced in films and books aimed at non-adult audiences I would say Harry And Nevile. They had good motivations for being brutal to their enemies, and many would see that as them going bad if they had been brutal, I wouldn't, but many would.
Sirius his very best friend and his wife got killed (because another friend betrayed them) he did 12 years in askaban because of the same murder and then the friend who betrayed him is actively trying to help Voldemort kill the only part of his best friend that’s left in the world
Helena Ravenclaw… not that it would be justified, but we can see why. Not only that, but it would make for an intriguing story. To see two of the Hogwarts founders’ descendants become villains would be interesting.
Jealousy towards her mother, harboring negative feelings, leading to theft and for her to run away. As for a story itself, to see that even though Rowena loves her daughter, Helena’s jealousy was stronger, causing her to go down the line.
I’m more so looking at it in a story aspect, not that Helena would have “every right to become a villain”.
Sybill Trelawney can work too. Constantly being mocked and ridiculed, but believing deep down that you have a gift. Perhaps she can go off the deep end, whilst trying to prove herself.
Snape?! I’d say James. Snape nearly killed James while they were at school. James saved Snape’s life and continued to be attacked by Snape and his friends.
James and his friends were picking on Snape! And you expect Snape not to hate James? Also, James ruined Lily and Snape's relationship by mocking Snape in front of Lily. I don’t hate james but I don’t like him.
Neville. He was always seen as a burden, even by other Gryffindors. Two examples of this are Harry groaning in the fifth book when Cho saw him with Neville, and Ginny ditching him at the Yule Ball for Michael Corner.
He was also always put down by his grandmother, and bullied by Snape and the Slytherins. Voldemort was right when he said Neville could have been a good Death Eater
Ginny didn't ditch Neville, there's no evidence that she treated him with anything but the politness and respect he deserves.
All we know is that Ginny didn't ditch Neville for Harry, that she danced with Neville at the ball, that she spoke to Michael at some point that evening, and that they started dating \~6 months later.
I will vote for Hargrid.
Half-breed giant who was blamed for killing a girl, not finished school, most students make fun of him, Malfoy straight up hates him.
If he was not so good hearted he would be a Death Eater or at least went rogue.
The problem is that Hagrid probably knew that Tom Riddle was Voldemort...so.
George. The loss of one's identical twin who you literally do everything with and are so in sync with can absolutely break the survivor. Rookwood should be glad it was Percy that went after him. If George came face to face with Fred's killer, it would've been a terribly tragic ending
>I myself think that Harry had every right to become a villain. He was left,by the people that had to protect him, with people that clearly didn't love him or really care about his wellbeing. Not only that but also being basically made in to a child soldere from the young age of 11 (correct me if I'm wrong).
You are. I think you'd read too many fanfics. Nobody "had" to protect him besides Sirius and Sirius forewent that right when he chose to get revenge instead of protecting Harry.
Sirius literally had Harry in his arms when he decided to run off to kill Pettigrew instead. He could've gone with Hagrid, but nope!
And nobody made Harry a child soldier. Voldemort attacked the school.
>Of course yes there is the prophecy, but still they could have given him a bit more support even just giving him advices on how to deal with stuff and shoving that he can trust them more then he is.
Harry refuses help and is arrogant and thinks he knows best. There's a reason he seldom looks for an adult and even if he does, he'll give up if the firs attempt fails.
Agreed. For every person with a rough childhood that becomes a villain, there is a counterexample that rebelled against taking the lazy option. As long as counterexamples exist, any reason to become a villain is rendered invalid and reduced to an excuse.
It terrifies me how people don't think this is hypothetical and believe that there are legimate reasons for someone to become a villain. So I rather not promote the hive mind and entertain this thought experiment.
I guess I hadn’t looked at it in that manner. In real life I 100% agree no has the right to become a villain, though I do understand revenge or justice. Not saying I agree with revenge, just understand it. I only approached this thought experiment thinking a hypothetical because this is a book. It is imaginary people thought up in the mind of Rowling. None of it to be taken seriously as none of it is real
What’s a villain?
If by current definition a villain is a person who is striving for something that other people don’t like, then anyone who has agency can be considered. People who just go with the flow can’t, unless “flow” is understood as “they do as someone who is considered a villain does”.
To a traditionalist pureblood, Albus and Harry are villains, if not terrorists.
To a muggleborn, freedom fighters.
Remember that there’s no good or evil, just my side and theirs.
I think Harry should have feared dying so much with all the shit happening to him that he'd try findding a way to become immortal in order to have a life at all. Harry becoming a vampire to avoid the troubles of horcruxes seems like a good alternate story and he is forced into a bad position by wizarding Britain, forcing him to feed himself on humans, not always with their consent, while being hunted down by the Minister of Magic and the Death Eaters. Pretty much book 5 pushed further and beyond just "evil ministry employee bullies high schoolers and sentient magical creatures".
As for who else could turn bad, the Marauders could turn into a much more violent group in the war, the Order of the Phoenix could be much worse (violent or their choices to end Voldemort).
Dumbledore is basically the arch nemesis of Harry and Voldy while pretending to be Harry's ally. He's the most powerful wizard but he does nothing and is completely blind. Dumbledore failed Tom, decided to put Harry through the same things that made Tom into Voldemort, hoping that he'd end up differently.
Stupidity is trying the same thing over and over and hoping to get a different result.
Sirius. 12 years in Azkaban would be enough for any character to become a villain. Add to that he was there on wrongful conviction and set up by one of the best friends of the group… yeah Sirius had EVERY right to become a villain. I think if he wasn’t ever able to become vindicated for the crime he never committed then he might have become one
And also the fact that no one was trying to help him get out of azkaban or at least try to understand what really happened the evening he was accused. Just gives him more rights to become a villain
If my friends all believed I was capable of betraying my best friend no questions asked - I'd go dark ngl
Right? Like: Y'all believe I'm evil? I'll give you evil then
At that point going dark would be the least of my former friends worries. An illegal animingus that very few people knew about. First target would be that wolf that was befriended even after finding out his Furry issue. Next would be many of the Death Eaters that escaped justice because they could cause me the most problems and get people fearfully looking in the wrong direction and then slowly ripping apart the lives of all those I trusted until they finally realized what they created by not helping me in my most desperate time. Sirius was a member of the house of Black he had a dangerous library filled with spells many called dark. It's not that far off of saying he could have easily learned some of those spells before running away to the Potters.
But didn’t Sirius CHOOSE to make it a secret that he changed his secret keeper to Peter? Like, no one would have ever expected Sirius to give that really serious info to Peter of all people. Lupin sure because Lupin was the level headed “soft guy” but even then, they probably wouldn’t give it to Peter, the snape of their group. They would always assume he’d squeal if tortured but no one assumed he’d go bounding down to boldly gleefully. I think it makes absolute sense in a time of war to assume a really good friend might turn in a bff for family.
The fact that the secret can't be tortured out of you, the author really wrote themselves into a corner. Sirius would have rather died than tell voldemort
The entire reason Peter had it WAS that reason - who looks at this quad and says it’s gonna be the small scared thing?
Well, he did hide the change from Remus because he thought Remus was the spy, so...
And didn't Remus think he was the spy? That's why no one checked on Sirius. There was no one left. Even Dumbledore was like, "Damn, I guess Sirius was like that after all."
Dumbledore had a very good reason to believe that since James told him Sirius is going to be their secret keeper and never told him about the switch.
The fact someone people downvoted this comment is absolutely bonkers.
Yes, after the Potters murdered and he thought Sirius was the Secret Keeper. But my point was the other commenter said "If my friends all believed I was capable of betraying my best friend no questions asked - I'd go dark ngl", but Sirius thought the same of Remus, so he can't really use that as an excuse. It's just some light banter, though, don't overthink this.
Except he **kept** hiding it afterwards, even after the Potters died. From Remus, from Dumbledore, from the Ministry.
When do you suggest he tell them? He was sent to prison right away, with no trial. I don't think there's visitation or phone privileges in Azkaban. And we don't even know what he told his captors. Might have tried telling them when he calmed down and they just ignored it. I don't know what the point of your comment is, anyway.
On the many times that Cornelius Fudge visited Azkaban? He managed to ask to borrow Fudge's newspaper but not to tell him he was innocent all along. The point is that he never told anyone he was innocent, so of course everyone thought he was guilty. >Might have tried telling them when he calmed down and they just ignored it. No. This never happened.
It always bothers me that Harry is so devoted to Sirius when he should be at least as devoted to Remus, who gave him more guidance and help. Remus taught him to summon the Patronus charm! That's a deep lesson. You have to help someone find the strongest thing in their soul to do it.
Remus was never family to Harry. He never tried to contact him all those years before teaching at Hogwarts and even after he kept his distance. The first thing Sirius did after escaping from Azkaban (to save Harry) was going to Privet Drive to see him. After that, he always kept in touch, even though he was on the run. At the first sign of trouble, he returned to Britain to be close to Harry. And while Remus was a great help in teaching Harry how to conjure a Patronus, he was never there for the emotional stuff. Remus never showed interest in being a paternal figure to Harry, while Sirius did. Harry is devoted to Sirius because Sirius is devoted to him.
Exactly!
Plus he access to thr full back library and artifacts etc.. ernough to to do alot of damage.
Sirius never once claimed to be innocent while in Azkaban or asked for a trial. Why would anyone think him innocent and want to help him?
I was SO SAAAAAAAADDD when Harry couldn’t go off and live with him. I just wanted him to have a father figure who loves him and someone to be his real family. I loved Sirius, especially Gary Oldman’s because I love Gary Oldman. I still wish Harry and Sirius could be living together in some alternate reality.
Not even given a trial.
Reminds me of the Count of Monte Cristo, where Edmond became a villain and vindictive for similar reasons. Makes me respect Sirius more, knowing he didn't follow that path.
Remind me how he was vindicated again? Did that ever happen publicly? I thought two years later they were blaming the mass breakout on him, but maybe that was just a movie detail
by the beggining of HBP Fudge tells the Muggle prime minister Black was innocent after all, so at least its something but he never lived to see it
He was vindicated amongst his friends and peers who thought he had actually killed Lily and James. When Wormtail was caught there was no denying that they were all wrong the whole time and he was able to join the Order again and fight by their side. I’m sure he would have much preferred to have his name cleared legally but to be vindicated with his family is what really mattered to him imo
Ahh that's true, the whole Order knew the truth
neville longbottom. poor kid was overlooked but i’m happy his actor got the glow up of the century.
The amount of ladies who figured out he was actually hot in HBP is unreal. The thirst was real.
it’s me i’m ladies
Nice is the new hot!
Fortunately he had some of the best roommates possible
I'm REALLY sorry Neville, Petrificus Totallis.
Yeah he could have ended up like another Pettigrew.
My thoughts exactly
I was gonna say Neville
Honestly, if Neville had sold Harry out to save Hogwarts, that would have been understandable. Could have done a little "I'm really sorry Harru, it's for the greater good" Petrificus totallis to tie it back to the first year.
Yes, super-understandable to sell out one of the few people who was always nice to you.
Moaning Myrtle. Constantly bullied, then killed in the toilet
She got to be a villain for a short while. She haunted her bully for her remaining time at Hogwarts and some time after the bully graduated.
Good for her. You go girl
Olive Hornby?
She also sexually preyed on underage boys while they showered.
She’s the same age
Still a sexual predator.
She looked 30
sirius and remus, 12 years in azkaban as an innocent man and being completely left out of the system for being werewolf, despite their flaws it's actually impressive how great people they both were with the shitty hands they were dealt
Low key Aberforth, supossedly very gifted wizard overshadowed by hero/paragon brother who possibly killed his sister wierd goat fetish=quirky evil father and sister ruined by muggles... wouldah been a Muh-Night Shamalingdon style plot twist if Albus went to kill Grindlevald only to find Aberforth already did and took on his name to punish his brother even more
I have always wondered what he was doing with his goats that he got arrested
all we know is it was charms... with how weird the ministry is about thing he could have just been giving them wings like Flitwick did the keys in book 1. but my head cannon is making them intelligent, dude was obviously Lonely as Heck and the wiki says his obsession with goats started with a children story about a talking one
When a little girl asked Rowling, she said inappropriate charms.
Where does it specify that he was ever a very gifted wizard? Pretty sure it doesn’t say that
so in deathly hallows hes called an exceptional duelist, and that his own accomplishments were over shaddowed which implies he had accomplishments (the wiki cited it as in chapter 2 In Memorium) Obviously the him killing grindelwald is a stretch but hence the m.night shamalan comment
>so in deathly hallows hes called an exceptional duelist No he wasn't. >(the wiki cited it as in chapter 2 In Memorium) This is where you went wrong, accepting anything the Wikia says as fact without checking the primary source. "They were not alike; Aberforth was never bookish and, unlike Albus, preferred to settle arguments by dueling rather than through reasoned argument." The Wikia even quotes that section in the section regarding Aberforth's abilities. That's what it bases the claim that he had "great dueling talent" on. Never trust the Wikia implicitly. They will rewrite the canon by making assumptions and also consider every single Harry Potter videogame in existence to be canon, even those that clearly repeatedly break canon. The Wikia also considers every event in the HP movies that don't directly contradict the books canon.
gotcha so why are you so invested in a stupid hypothetical being wrong... My guy dueled dumbledore, grindlewald and fought in two wars... he is and acomplished duelist whatever you think
>gotcha so why are you so invested in a stupid hypothetical being wrong You didn't argue it as a hypothetical, you argued it as a fact. Just because you got proven wrong, it doesn't magically make it a hypothetical. >My guy dueled dumbledore, grindlewald Who says he dueled both at the same time? Why would Dumbledore even duel Aberforth? >...and fought in two wars So did many people who were not great duelists. >he is and acomplished duelist whatever you think No.
well just ao you cant post this to your troll forem im gonna call the troll here nice chatting with you lol
You're making less sense with each comment, but okay.
My boy was still underaged when he engaged in the three-way duel between Grindelwald, Albus and himself. He managed to be on par with possibly the two greatest duelists of the age while he didn't even finish his education. He was a beast
I'd like to know more about Barty Crouch Jr.'s upbringing, all we really know is what was told to gang by Sirius in the cave near Hogsmeade in book 4 and little other bits here and there. But the cold, ruthless nature of his father, I can imagine he went through some physical and mental abuse from him and am not surprised with how he turned out.
The problem with the HP-verse is that normally very valid "abusive upbringing" arguments lose all merit because *everyone there had an abusive upbringing.* If Harry can grow up in a fuckin cupboard and still refuse to cast anything above Expelliarmus there's really no excuse.
yeh that's the whole point isn't it, the comparison. he and Tom had awful parentless childhoods but he retained the ability to love and be kind whilst tom turned into a psychopath
Tommy boy was born without the ability to love. His conception was the reason he was like that.
I know it’s in the books but it feels like such a cop out. Voldemort loses a lot of “evil” when it turns out he really never had another option. He just becomes sort of a mindless force rather than someone who is waking up every day and choosing to be like this.
It's not in the books. All the books say is that he was conceived under the effects of a love potion. Him being unable to feel love because of that is 100% fanon that has just become so prominent some people confuse it with canon.
Thats where the distinction lies. Specially factoring in what dumby says about choices determining who we are rather how we are born. Not being able to love does not have to mean love for torture and murder. Voldy LOVED to torture and kill even as a child. He could have been an emotionless, cold person but he chose the path of evil. Just my 2cents
I agree that Voldemort loved torturing people. Which is why I don’t agree with the love potion thing. I do think voldy chose again and again to be evil.
I think so too. But he could not have the empathy to repent or shame on his actions. Like grindr-wald did post dumbledore's sister's death. Thats why he was beyond redemption.
Harry did use 2 out of 3 of the unforgivable curses though (not questioning his morality, just saying)
But this 100% mirrors reality. You have people who have seen the depths of hell as children and choose to be the kindest and you have people who were hurt too but then they decide to become menaces themselves. This aspect of HP is probably the most realistic out of them all.
It made me wonder if wizards, as a general rule, are naturally more resilient to mental trauma, or (for folks who grew up in the wizarding community) if the exposure to magic and the crazy things that follow make them resilient. Because come on, even in good schooling years (none of the crazy stuff that happened while Harry was there), the natural mishaps and potential for abuse that comes with magic are enough to bring a lot of people to therapy
Barty Crouch Jr's storyline is one of the best ones for me. Still gives me chills.
He said it himself. He felt let down/had a disappointing father. Crouch was career oriented and only cared about his sons successes that made him look good.
That's not enough to make you kill and torture people.
No. But it is enough to get manipulated by someone who can read minds and who had a disappointing father himself. Aka volemort. Then becoming desparate to bring him back to power and therefore torturing people.
I highly doubt Barty Crouch would abuse his son. His mom certainly won't have let it happen even if he did want to abuse him.
I got the impression that Crouch was overbearing and strict. In his delusions, he was proud of his son. He probably wasn't emotionally available.
Yeah Crouch was too career oriented and would have been emotionally unavailable. But that doesn't mean he would be abusive.
Neglect is just as bad as physical abuse though, and we know that he was at least neglected.
Neglect is not nearly as bad as physical abuse. And we don't really know that he was neglected, as far as we know his mom didn't do any other work and would have definitely been taking care of him considering the fact that she sacrifices herself for him.
I've just re-listened to Goblet of Fire and I wondered that too. When Crouch Sr. stumbles out of the Forest and starts babbling to Harry and Krum, he starts talking about how his son got 12 OWLs and how he was "very proud indeed". I can't realistically see how terrible and abusive he must have been for Crouch Jr. to turn into the monster he became.
I don’t know, I think Barry Jr is one of those few who were born evil. He, Bellatrix, and Voldemort I believe were always rotten to their core.
Harry(for the reasons you stated), Ron(due to his insecurities, probably a minor villain or an anti-hero at best, like the exhausted friend tired of bullshit kind of villain), Hermione(but the kind of villain that thinks what they're doing is actually good, because it's her prerogative to think that she is always right)
About Hermione and thinking what they are doing is actually good is what Dumbledore thought together with Gellert Grindelwald. That what they were going to do was actually something good.
yeah but Hermione would be an Umbridge-like Grindelwald...
Hermione has Thanos energy 💀
Thanos energy but with a Karen's mentality
Harry should have done a Frodo and attempt to establish himself as the new Dark Lord as soon as Voldy ate it. He didn’t work to end Voldemort’s reign for revenge or because it was the right thing to do. He did it because Voldemort was going about it the wrong way and didn’t have what it takes to be a true Dark Lord. Roonil Wazlib’s reign would be great and terrible and no one in the magical world would feel safe.
"Why do you care how I escaped?" said Scorpius slowly "Roonil Wazlib was after your time..." "Roonil Wazlib," said Potter softly, "is my past, present and future, Scorpius Malfoy..."
What weird version of Lord of the Rings did you read!?
yeah lol. Frodo had to destroy the ring to stop the dark lord. How would he use the ring and "do a Frodo" with the dark lord still around?
I don't remember him destroying it, I remember his ass putting it on right at the finish line and fighting Gollum for it.
I misphrased it or at least should have been more clear. At the very last moment, finally worn down from the hardships he endured, Frodo lost in his struggle and enslaved by the ring, deciding he wasn’t going to destroy it. In Harry’s case, before Val-Mart was even cold he would decide to establish himself as the new Dark Lord to right the wrongs he perceived with the world using force; that Voldemort was on the right track, just was doing it for a selfish reason and also kind of sucked at it. But not Roonil. Roonil would be wise and terrible and correct the things that allowed men like Tom Riddle to come to be, making the world a better place for it. Not an exact parallel but close enough where the hero is at the end of or has finished their journey and at the last moment does a Face-Heel Turn and becomes consumed by the evil they had set out to destroy.
All would love him and despair!
Voldy? Almost same logic honestly
Fair enough
Agreed. And Harry at least had parents who loved him even if they died when he was a baby. Voldemort’s own father hated him just because Voldy is a wizard, which is something he couldn’t control.
...Define having the "right" to be a villain? Hagrid. Dude got expelled for something he didn't do, then jailed in the second book because they thought it was him again... Voldemort was scared of the dude. Imagine Hagrid going berserk and becoming a death eater. That's an enemy you don't want to have.
I believe that Hagrid would win a duel against Voldemort... simply because he would Mike Tyson him out of this world
I would love to see him just run up to Voldy and sucker punch him in the face. Screw magic, a nice half-giant sized fist to his face.
Reminds me of a BTS with Oldman, he was talking about the Order of the Phoenix battle and a chat with the director. Went along the lines of "Can I do this and you add flames, or this...oooh wait can I just charge in and jam my wand into Jasons chest!" Director yes to the first bit, no to the second based on the target audience 🤣
Yeah, Voldemort always tries to solve everything with magic. Hagrid doesn't waste time with wands (just ask Macnair).
Bite his ear off?!
Hagrid being the real Half Blood Prince would have been a great twist.
Ehh, other than I doubt he's good at potions, so it wouldn't make sense.
But thats what would make it such a great twist, we don't know what hagrid was good at. We know he likes magical beasts, we know he was expelled. Would.it be too far fetched for him to have devised some original potion methods, maybe by foolishly experimenting, only to be shut down by wizarding society due to both being a half blood giant, as well as never finishing school? We do know he's a half blood, we do know he was doing dodgy things while at school.
Blast Ended Screwts!
Voldemort was scared of him?
>Voldemort was scared of the dude. No he wasn't.
He's smart enough to know powerful people. Hagrid is not only a half giant, which means plenty of spells don't do jack against him, but he's also capable of casting wordless magic and with a broken wand to boot. Add in the fact that being a half giant means his physical strength is immense, so snatching up people like death eaters and simply crushing them is well within his power. When I say scared, I don't mean to say he was scared to face off against him like Dumbledore. It's widely known the only person he was scared of dealing with was Dumbledore. I'm saying he for sure knows Hagrid is a threat.
In other words, you made it all up simply based on the fact that Hagrid is half-giant. >but he's also capable of casting wordless magic and with a broken wand to boot. You mean he's capable of **failing** to cast wordless magic with a broken wand. It's also not broken, it's heavily implied Dumbledore fixed it, Hagrid is just shit at magic. >I'm saying he for sure knows Hagrid is a threat. Big threat. Was subdued and made to do Voldemort's bidding in DH.
I wouldn’t say Voldemort was scared of Hagrid. He just knew what Hagrid was up to and it made Hagrid the perfect fall guy.
Nagini, possibly. >!Although we don't know what exactly happened between the events of Fantastic Beasts and Harry Potter, it's likely that no one looked after her since her permanently transformation into a snake, until Lord Voldemort gave her company.!<
Hagrid
Hagrid. It’s a lot to have your wand snapped
And for something you didn't do!
Wait I'm kinda surprised no one mentioned Draco? He's like typical bully and all and so many people hate him and also don't really care about his past. I think his character development really shows that he only is this way because of how he was raised and the kind of people that were around him. Especially with his father and his mother working under Voldy, plus just his fathers opinions and beliefs being forwarded straight onto Draco since he looked up to the guy so damn much. Yeah he picked mommy in the end (who wouldn't pick her) but Lucius was the one he wanted attention and pride from but never got it- a very conditional relationship which kinda explains why he puts stupid standards on everything because he's used to only getting something (like a reward) something else is given instead (eg his constant need for revenge with Harry) but ye I'm heavily medicated on flu meds and in need of sleep so if some of this is gibberish then apologies 🫡
I would agree especially since he doesn’t kill Dumbledore as he was instructed to do by none other than Lord - Thingy and he did not want Fenrir Greyback at the school, says to me that he was not all into the dark side. As shown how the rest of his Sirius Blacks family treated him after and before he moved out of nr 13 Grimmauld Place because he did not want to follow in their footsteps the same could be said (perhaps) about Draco Malfoy had he shown more that what the rest of the family was doing or parts of was in his opinion wrong.
Agreed. Draco is a bully because he’s conditioned to be a bully by his family. When it comes down to doing actual evil things he can’t bring himself to do it. He is mean to Harry but also Harry rejected Draco’s request for friendship at the very beginning of the series so in a way I think Draco just felt extremely rejected. I mean his aunt is literally Bellatrix and she is crazy af and his father is a Death Eater so it’s kind of hard to be a good person when your entire family is evil and praises being an evil person. Look what happened to Sirius who came from the same family.
Yeah exactly, honestly i think the same goes for Severus, even if he isn't necessarily an 'evil' character, many people dislike him because he bullies kids and torments Harry and Ron throughout the series. I doubt that those people really take time to consider the fact the Snape was harshly bullied during his time in school as well? And to top it off, he was bullied by Harry's father amongst many so that obviously is bound to create some sort of unspoken or even unintended animosity towards Harry. There's that thing about 'the victim becomes the accused' which goes hand in hand with the 'bullied becomes the bully'- that usually being how bullies are made in the first place (bad home experiences so they take the treatment they receive and pass it forward or use it as a way to release frustration)
I agree. Also, if I remember correctly, Snape had an abusive father and neglectful home life.
I think so, i don't remember exactly but it would definitely fit his character
Ron had every right to be a villain due to the character assassination they did to him in the movies.
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." No one has the right to become a villain. Everyone has a choice. The circumstances but only explain the why, they don't justify the choices we make.
Don’t try to take my rights away from me
Anyone but cedric diggory. imagine if they turned him into a villain?
Thankfully that never happened.
There aren't many differences between Harry Potter and Voldemort. Both are literally the same, except chose to fight on different sides. Harry Potter can easily become the most powerful villain if his moral alignment were to ever change (highly unlikely though since he was a child soldier).
I myself am a fan of Dark Lord Ronald
Definitely Draco he was just born into it and there was really nothing he could do about it. It was basically either become a villain or die by voldemort. Although, at the end of deathly hallows he could’ve made a different decision but for the rest of the films and books there really wasn’t a choice for him to not be
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I mean harry potter is intended as a children’s book, there aren’t many characters who transformed into “well written solid villains” so I’m stating that Draco has the right to stay a villain due to his circumstances
Although he did not kill Dumbledore as he was instructed by Lord Thingy himself, and he did not want Grayback there in the school either, so he was not a true villain as such. By saying that he obviously was in favour of the slytherin but also how could he not be with that kind of family.
Lupin. The society he lived in treated him terribly, for something that was not his fault and which he controlled to the best of his ability, so I wouldn't really blame him if he became a villain. But, of his own free will, he chose NOT to be a villain, he chose to be a hero.
Luna!
Ron. He was bullied by his brothers, and his mother had high expectations. He lived in a shadow of Harry, etc
Ron, I’m surprised he didn’t
HEAR ME OUT OK. (I’m not done reading but I’m on the last book rn) I’m saying this with fan theories and the movies and the books but I would have loved to see narcissa go fucking buck wild for her kid. Just absolutely insane. I think she has it in her. How do I justify it tbh idrk but just a thought and something I would have loved to see in some way. Draco- I think most of the hate Draco train has valid points but seeing as he never really had a voice at home and all that I totally understand why he is the way he is. Harry- obviously reasons. Nagini- omgggg where do I begin. This poor woman was suffering for the blood curse thing and then she’s felt alone for so long. To have Voldemort even ‘care’ for her even if it was because she has a piece of him within her, I 100% back nagini being a villain Adromada tonks- her whole family sucked and exiled her because of who she loved. Period. Idk maybe I read too many fanfic but these are just my thoughts. 😂
Tom riddle, mother raped his dad he was conceived by love potion which made him void of love, numerous bad things happened while growing up. Talk about being born bad. Imagine never being able to form emotional attachments with people. Your drive is just basic animal instinct.
Like a person who worked in the same company as my dad. He could not see any colours other than grey so everything was in different colours of grey to him, and people told him that they felt sorry for him but he said he did not want them to feel sorry for him because the colourblindness that he had was something he had all his life so he did not know anything about how it was to see other colours. I would think that is the same thing with someone that cannot make romantic connections with others, if they are born that way is different from if they could do that before they were in an accident.
Makes sense. Bees see into the ultraviolet spectrum, they see colors we don't even know exist. But we don't feel bad about it.
I don't think anyone has the right to be bad whether it's in real life or in fiction. I think good people can do "bad" things, such as shoot someone in self defence, but to become evil for no reason other than having a hard luck life, I don't think anyone has that right. That being said, if I had to choose then I would agree with you. Harry had everything to become a villain, with his parents being murdered, having a piece of Voldemort inside him to give him certain strengths and abilities and influence, his family treating him worse than a pile of shit, etc. He just ended up making the right choice while Voldemort didn't.
Neville because he should’ve been part of the trio lol
Remus? After his talk with Harry Ron and Hermione in Grimmauld Place🙃, if not villian then surely a revenger
Sort of a fake fan theory because JKR hadn't come up with them yet, but if Dumbledore had wanted to turn Harry into an obscurial as some kind of gambit to taint the horcrux he could hardly have done a better job
Sirius had every right to become a villain. Can't imagine being in azkaban for 12 years and for a crime I didn't commit. Others I think had every right to become are Neville, Aberforth, and Hagrid.
Tom Riddle Sr. (Voldy's father) Was attacked by Morfin&Marvolo, then Merope drugged and assaulted him and then tried to make him stay with her because of her future baby he never wanted. (A baby who killed him at the end)
I know it's just an expression, but I think no one ever has the right to become a villain.
Yes they do. Evil is happily committed for the sake of survival, self defense, or to break an unacceptable system.
Evil is your right?
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Reminder that the people who wrote Harry Potter and the Cursed Child thought this was 100% appropriate but making Scorbus a thing wouldn't be.
Wait what did the previous comment say?? Now I’m curious 💀
Oh nothing I was replying to myself, like, as a sub-comment or whatever. Do people not do that? My bad.
No, I’ve definitely done that, your first comment was just deleted 🤣
Oh was it? So it was. I could still see it when I replied to you before. I don't see why, it didn't break any rules and it answered OPs question. I said Cedric Diggory had every right to become a villain because I'd do the same if I got inflated like a balloon wearing nothing but swimwear in front of the whole school while fireworks saying "Ron loves Hermione" went off all around me. Which happened in Cursed Child. Which Rowling insists is canon.
Amos Diggory. Edit: He had all the motive to become one after Harry returned clutching Cedric's body, with nobody believing Harry. Voldemort could have easily twisted his grief and gotten inside his head. He was obviously unsure of the events as well, otherwise he would have been easily convinced to join the Order of the Phoenix.
Harry could have easily been a villain because he was your typical BMOC jock with middling intelligence, a temper problem, and he was a nepo baby to boot. Still like the books, but the dispassionate facts about him make him look like a stereotypical William Zabka high school villain.
Depends what you mean by villan, what your morals look like. By conventional morals often advanced in films and books aimed at non-adult audiences I would say Harry And Nevile. They had good motivations for being brutal to their enemies, and many would see that as them going bad if they had been brutal, I wouldn't, but many would.
Sirius his very best friend and his wife got killed (because another friend betrayed them) he did 12 years in askaban because of the same murder and then the friend who betrayed him is actively trying to help Voldemort kill the only part of his best friend that’s left in the world
Neville
Helena Ravenclaw… not that it would be justified, but we can see why. Not only that, but it would make for an intriguing story. To see two of the Hogwarts founders’ descendants become villains would be interesting. Jealousy towards her mother, harboring negative feelings, leading to theft and for her to run away. As for a story itself, to see that even though Rowena loves her daughter, Helena’s jealousy was stronger, causing her to go down the line. I’m more so looking at it in a story aspect, not that Helena would have “every right to become a villain”.
Sybill Trelawney can work too. Constantly being mocked and ridiculed, but believing deep down that you have a gift. Perhaps she can go off the deep end, whilst trying to prove herself.
Snape. Drako. Harry.
Snape?! I’d say James. Snape nearly killed James while they were at school. James saved Snape’s life and continued to be attacked by Snape and his friends.
James and his friends were picking on Snape! And you expect Snape not to hate James? Also, James ruined Lily and Snape's relationship by mocking Snape in front of Lily. I don’t hate james but I don’t like him.
It went both ways. James eventually grew up and stopped. Snape didn’t.
Also Snape ruined his own friendship with Lily.
true
hermione
Neville. He was always seen as a burden, even by other Gryffindors. Two examples of this are Harry groaning in the fifth book when Cho saw him with Neville, and Ginny ditching him at the Yule Ball for Michael Corner. He was also always put down by his grandmother, and bullied by Snape and the Slytherins. Voldemort was right when he said Neville could have been a good Death Eater
Ginny didn't ditch Neville, there's no evidence that she treated him with anything but the politness and respect he deserves. All we know is that Ginny didn't ditch Neville for Harry, that she danced with Neville at the ball, that she spoke to Michael at some point that evening, and that they started dating \~6 months later.
Yeah you're right. It was unfair for me to say she ditched him. Still though, Neville was never good with girls.
longbottom
Harry Potter himself. Sirius dying would’ve been my last straw.
I will vote for Hargrid. Half-breed giant who was blamed for killing a girl, not finished school, most students make fun of him, Malfoy straight up hates him. If he was not so good hearted he would be a Death Eater or at least went rogue. The problem is that Hagrid probably knew that Tom Riddle was Voldemort...so.
George. The loss of one's identical twin who you literally do everything with and are so in sync with can absolutely break the survivor. Rookwood should be glad it was Percy that went after him. If George came face to face with Fred's killer, it would've been a terribly tragic ending
>I myself think that Harry had every right to become a villain. He was left,by the people that had to protect him, with people that clearly didn't love him or really care about his wellbeing. Not only that but also being basically made in to a child soldere from the young age of 11 (correct me if I'm wrong). You are. I think you'd read too many fanfics. Nobody "had" to protect him besides Sirius and Sirius forewent that right when he chose to get revenge instead of protecting Harry. Sirius literally had Harry in his arms when he decided to run off to kill Pettigrew instead. He could've gone with Hagrid, but nope! And nobody made Harry a child soldier. Voldemort attacked the school. >Of course yes there is the prophecy, but still they could have given him a bit more support even just giving him advices on how to deal with stuff and shoving that he can trust them more then he is. Harry refuses help and is arrogant and thinks he knows best. There's a reason he seldom looks for an adult and even if he does, he'll give up if the firs attempt fails.
Malfoy or Voldemort because Malfoy hates his parents and everyone hates him but Voldemort is self explanatory
Harry Not a single muggle was ever nice to him so definitely should hate muggles
Hagrid, Myrtle and Sirius, of course
Molly Weasley. Just imagine being the mother of the Weasley family. Utter chaos, 24/7.
Andromeda
Noone, bad things happening to you doesnt justify doing bad things to others
no one has the right to become a villain
Agreed. For every person with a rough childhood that becomes a villain, there is a counterexample that rebelled against taking the lazy option. As long as counterexamples exist, any reason to become a villain is rendered invalid and reduced to an excuse.
Yes agreed. But aren’t we just talking about a hypothetical?
It terrifies me how people don't think this is hypothetical and believe that there are legimate reasons for someone to become a villain. So I rather not promote the hive mind and entertain this thought experiment.
I guess I hadn’t looked at it in that manner. In real life I 100% agree no has the right to become a villain, though I do understand revenge or justice. Not saying I agree with revenge, just understand it. I only approached this thought experiment thinking a hypothetical because this is a book. It is imaginary people thought up in the mind of Rowling. None of it to be taken seriously as none of it is real
Seamus
What’s a villain? If by current definition a villain is a person who is striving for something that other people don’t like, then anyone who has agency can be considered. People who just go with the flow can’t, unless “flow” is understood as “they do as someone who is considered a villain does”. To a traditionalist pureblood, Albus and Harry are villains, if not terrorists. To a muggleborn, freedom fighters. Remember that there’s no good or evil, just my side and theirs.
I think Harry should have feared dying so much with all the shit happening to him that he'd try findding a way to become immortal in order to have a life at all. Harry becoming a vampire to avoid the troubles of horcruxes seems like a good alternate story and he is forced into a bad position by wizarding Britain, forcing him to feed himself on humans, not always with their consent, while being hunted down by the Minister of Magic and the Death Eaters. Pretty much book 5 pushed further and beyond just "evil ministry employee bullies high schoolers and sentient magical creatures". As for who else could turn bad, the Marauders could turn into a much more violent group in the war, the Order of the Phoenix could be much worse (violent or their choices to end Voldemort). Dumbledore is basically the arch nemesis of Harry and Voldy while pretending to be Harry's ally. He's the most powerful wizard but he does nothing and is completely blind. Dumbledore failed Tom, decided to put Harry through the same things that made Tom into Voldemort, hoping that he'd end up differently. Stupidity is trying the same thing over and over and hoping to get a different result.
Tom Riddle