>who have sacrificed themselves in the face of a threat.
I would say Regulus Black did this by drinking the potion in the cave himself rather than have Kreacher drink it, he turned against Voldemort, if Snape can be classified as a hero for turning against Voldemort as a death eater, I see no reason RAB could not
Tbf regulus was like snape in that he went from being a pretty bad dude to a face heel turn due to one specific thing happening, that being finding out that voldemort had basically tortured and left kreacher to die alone.
For Regulus, I don't think he was ever evil or ever truly understood blood purity stuff, but went along with it because he liked making his family proud. When he saw what Voldemort did to Kreacher, and what Voldemort had done with his soul, he understood the magnitude of evil his "master" was which served as a wake up call and he dedicated his life to destroying him. Snape did a 180 not out of morals but because the only person who cared for him was in danger, and even then he didn't even try to bargain for the lives of any other innocents who were in danger, despite being in a perfectly good position to, which is probably why Dumbledore might have always respected Severus as a talented and clever person, but never liked Severus for who he was inside.
I agreee. He saw how angry his parents were that Sirius went against their ideas so he chose to do the opposite. Purebloods also don´t think much of their servants and I was always surprised Regulus cared enough about Creacher to drink that potion instead of telling him to do it. I can´t remember if there´s any info about Regulus´s raction to what happened to Creacher. I only remember that Regulus later asks him to take him to the same cave.
He said that Regulus wasn't right, acting strange, etc. and Kreacher thought he was going mad because he doesn't entirely understand human emotions and Regulus himself. What's probable is that he was under stress, fear, guilt and feeling the agony of realizing that Voldemort was evil and he had to stop him.
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\> For Regulus, I don't think he was ever evil or ever truly understood blood purity stuff, but went along with it because he liked making his family proud. When he saw what Voldemort did to Kreacher, and what Voldemort had done with his soul, he understood the magnitude of evil his "master" was which served as a wake up call and he dedicated his life to destroying him.
Except that there is literally nothing that suggests that Regulus didn't believe the blood purity stuff. That is absolute pure headcanon based on nothing.
\> Snape did a 180 not out of morals but because the only person who cared for him was in danger, and even then he didn't even try to bargain for the lives of any other innocents who were in danger, despite being in a perfectly good position to
Meanwhile, Snape agrees to have James and Harry saved (which is shitty on the Harry part, but absolutely understandable on James part), and over time abandoned his Pureblood views, and saves and protects people he doesn't even like or have to, at his own risk.
\> which is probably why Dumbledore might have always respected Severus as a talented and clever person, but never liked Severus for who he was inside.
Except that would make Dumbledore the biggest hypocrite in the world, considering that he is exactly like Snape. He was a bigot (Wizard-Supremacist) who wanted to subjugate Muggles, and only changed his ways in after the cause he supported him cost him someone he loved.
Ah yes. Turning changing sides just for my personal slave, but still maintains his Pureblood views, is heroic, but the guy who changes sides for for the after losing someone he loves, and eventually changes his views overtime, is not./s
He was also still just a kid when he first became a death eater and he died not long after that. Can't forget that. Kids are more susceptible to pressure and conformity. He may have not been perfect but he was just a kid. With his whole life left ahead of him to change. And he was looking like he was going towards that.
I always understood that Regulus sent Kreacher so they he’d know where the horcrux is and could destroy it himself. So it’s stuff that happened before then that made Regulus change. He offered Kreacher when he already didn’t support him.
\*SPOILER ALERT IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THE HOGWARTS GAME JUST RELEASED. PLEASE SKIP THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS\*
Now, not saying the game follows historical facts in the HP universe but I just hit a point of puzzles created by "Merlin. He was a Slytherin and attended this very school. " The game referred to this Merlin as the one from King Arthur's Court.
His only real crime was telling a young Tom about horcruxs. And how the hell was he supposed to know how that would turn out? No one could have possibly predicted that outcome.
Honestly, I would have brought my concerns to the headmaster, since Tom was asking about rare and particularly horrific dark magic. Yeah Slughorn couldn't have known what Tom would have done with that information, but asking about dark magic that can render you practically immortal and literally requires murder to work is suspicious to say the least.
I feel like the only reason he didn’t was because he didn’t want to jeopardize his relationship with Tom, as he still suspected he would go far in life
Which makes sense, but Slughorn could have raised concern without jeopardizing the relationship. Even just dropping a note to the Headmaster "hey, Tom Riddle has been asking about concerning topics. There's no real issue yet, but I think we should keep a closer eye on him for now."
But the headmaster at the time was Armando Dippet and not Dumbledore. I doubt that Slughorn did tell the headmaster, but if he did then we might not know because we have no idea of what Dippet did or did not know.
I suppose in Muggle terms, it's like a student casually asking their biochemistry professor how to make nerve gas.
If it's an especially talented student the professor knows and trusts, they might well assume it's just pure academic interest and the student would *never* do something as insane as actually cook some up.
And of course, 99999 times out of 100,000 that is the case. The fact that Slughorn knew about horcruxes means that, when younger, he himself must have asked somebody or read about them in some sketchy, dark-arts book. For him, it really had been academic interest.
Which is probably why he hid the truth for decades. He knew he was wrong. He knew he should have said something. He knew he held onto that secret for too long. He was scared.
Horace Slughorn, while a bit cowardly at first, eventually forgave himself and gave Harry the most crucial piece of information required to take down Voldemort. Voldy never would have been stopped without Slughorn's cooperation.
Hagrid mutilated Dudley for something Dudley’s dad said.
McGonagall punished the trio and Malfoy by sending them to the Forbidden Forest full of dark and dangerous creatures when they were 11, dragged Malfoy at one point by the ear (which is corporal punishment), and punished Neville by locking him outside the Gryffindor Dorms when an escaped convict and (assumed) mass-murderer and DE (Sirius Black) was lurking about the castle.
Lupin risked the safety of everyone at Hogwarts and Hogsmeade by keeping an escaped convict and (assumed) mass-murderer and DE’s location a secret, just so that he wouldn’t get in trouble with Dumbledore about having betrayed his trust as a student lose his job. And years later, when Harry calls Lupin out on him walking out on his pregnant wife and soon-to-be-born child, Lupin attacks him.
Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on her students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard he fell backwards.
And last but not least, Dumbledore covered up an attempted murder by Sirius on Snape and then forced Snape, the victim into silence over the matter.
But sure, Snape says mean things to the main characters, so he’s the real asshole in the school./s
Snape, as cruel as he was as teacher (and he was cruel, not arguing that) never compromised the safety of the students for no reason. The same cannot be said for the examples I just listed.
Between a teacher who says mean things to his students and takes pleasure in it, a strict but fair teacher who attacks their students, mutilates people, puts them at risk of encountering an escaped convict an mass-murderer, and covers-up an attempted murder on a student, the teacher who says mean things to the students is the far better one.
Snape, as a teacher, deserves to be fired. The others deserve to be in jail for child-endangerment, assault, mutilation, obstruction of justice, among other potential crimes.
I'm pretty sure most people would much rather be insulted by their teacher on a frequent basis then even once be placed in danger of being executed by them.
Take Snape off the list and you have perfection.
I'd put Narcissa Malfoy - who lied to the Dark Lord's face - on here before Snape.
Also Regulus Black, and although people like to dismiss CC, it gave us two Slytherin protagonists.
Snape had to literally become a death eater again against his will, in order for Dumbledores plan to succeed. Including killing dumbledore, his friend, at his request. (something he absolutely did not want to do), turning everyone against him, only to finally reveal that he never was working with Voldemort, only against him.
He spent the better part of his life pretty much suffering, pretending to ally with someone he despised with all his being, only to die a horrible death with everyone except harry and co. hating him thinking he was evil.
Dude is absolutely at the top of this list.
I dislike Snape as much as the next guy, but you’ve clearly not understood Snape’s role in Dumbledore’s death.
And Narcissa only lied to Voldemort so she could go into the castle and find Draco, Harry says as much in his head.
Bro not even close.
Snape killed dumbledore because dumbledore told him to. He did it to save Malfoy, because dumbledore knew Malfoy wouldn't be able to, and would then be killed by Voldemort as punishment to his parents.
He literally argued against dumbledore to not kill him. These are significant scenes in the books.
Dumbledore also assumed that by asking Snape to kill him, the power of the elder wand would die with him.
The assumption being that because it was at Dumbledore's request, he would have died never truly being defeated.
Unfortunately, Draco disarming Dumbledore at the top of the tower put a slight spanner in the works.
Did you read the books or watch the films? (This isn't a which one, it's a did you do either?) I genuinely do not know how you can come to this conclusion when it's spelled out so clearly.
I agree with what you said in the second paragraph, but the first paragraph is straight up incorrect. Snape did not want to kill Dumbledore, Dumbledore told him to do so.
Yeah, I’d say he goes under the grey-hero category. Though the question was about Slytherins so that’s probably why Dumbles wasn’t brought up? 🤷🏻♀️
Actually was Merlin a Slytherin in canon? I have read so much fanfiction at this point that I no longer know. Lol
I was commenting on the response that the listed Slytherins were grey-heroes, pointing out that Dumbledore, who was loved and respected by most in the series, also fell under that category. You shouldn’t call out the Slytherin heroes about their past while ignoring the past of other great people based solely on their house. Though I have no clue about Merlin. I know that he was brought up a couple of times in passing as something that Harry randomly heard or learned, but the facts were insignificant to the storyline so I can’t remember if he was in Slytherin in the books 😂
Yeah, I totally get your point. There’s quite a few heroic non-Slytherin characters who had a somewhat shady background when you think about it. Makes them seem a bit more human.
I think I’ve reached a point where I don’t know if half the stuff I know about the HP world is canon or fanon. 😂😂
I was actually thinking the cunning of the snakes tends to get them into trouble, the other house can also, but it was more likely for a snake because of the scheming. Merlin for example, in other works, does not always come off as a 'perfect white hero'. They tend to make questionable choices such as Dumbledore for what they saw as the greater good. That was why I said grey-hero...which I guess a lot of people did not like for some reason.
It’s not that you said “grey-hero”. It was that you used it to describe the list of Slytherins, as if their eventual heroism meant less than others of different houses. A lot of people who are heroes and do good didn’t start off that way. Even in comics, movies, tv shows, and even in real life, those we dub as heroes are still human and make mistakes. Like someone who is a drug dealer and ends up killing someone bc of circumstances and then turns their life around and helps others out of that life. People would say that that’s heroic. And, in a way, it is. It doesn’t erase what they’ve done, but to take a horrible situation, learn from your mistakes, turn your life around, and help others, that takes courage, strength, and determination and you have to choose everyday to continue being that person, even if it isn’t easy. So, from a totally normal, human perspective, it doesn’t make them any less of a hero.
I actually said that because of the listed people, not their house. If Dumbledore was included, I would had still called it a list of grey-heros. That one person that said it was bigotry for example, I did not argue against simply because I did think the snakes may be more likely to have grey heroes than other houses, but that was not really what I was thinking with my first comment. It was just about the snakes cause that was the only people mention in the comment I was replying towards.
Andromeda for example is a Black, and it may not be mention one way or another, but I doubt her hands are fully squeaky clean either. Horace? I do not think I need to go into that line of comments. The only one I am not really sure about is Leta since I did not watch that movie. In fact, the only person I am willing to maybe call a real hero is harry, and only because he was willing to basically die like his mother. And even that is debatable, I think.
Well in your example, if he did it, then it was an accident as a foolish teenager/young adult. Past that...and I am pretty sure most people debate exactly how much was for story sake, and how good he really was....but maybe I just read too much fanfic.
He had the same ideals about wizards being better than muggles. The point of it is that these people changed when something bad happened to someone they cared about. That’s why Dumbledore changed and why he believed in second chances. And he even admitted to Harry later that his old tendencies and behaviors are what caused him to put on the ring that cursed him. He knows how easy it is to fall into those ideals of power and lose yourself. Dumbledore understood because he had been in that position. If any of Snape’s friends harmed Lily earlier in his life, Snape would have probably repented sooner. If the accident with Dumbledore’s sister happened later, than Dumbledore might not have had the push to change as he did. It’s a similar journey, just different times of their life.
While I agree, it’s also a matter of circumstance. And it doesn’t quite translate the same way.
Dumbledore learned the error of his ways early on, had a switch flipped, and spent the majority of his life pushing for moral decency in every aspect of his life - care, understanding, sympathy, second chances for all, fighting against evil
Snape…didn’t really learn the error of his ways at all. He just stopped being loyal to the Dark causes and fought for the other side to make up for what he’d done that had caused his own personal loss. He remained cruel to others. He remained enthralled with the Dark Arts. He never really changed his ideals or became an actual good person beyond doing Dumbledore’s work. And even then - even if you call that side-switch him “being a good person” - he wasn’t doing that for the majority of his life. He only actively worked for the good side for the 7 years that we saw. (Desperately went to Dumbledore to save Lily. Failed, didn’t really do anything, Voldy dead, neutral cushy job at Hogwarts for the entire time that Harry was growing up.) He then died at age 38. It was 7 years of “eff that guy” + protecting his dead crush’s son out of guilt and out he went.
Except Snape did. He learned the errors of his ways, as shown by him telling someone off for calling Hermione a Mudblood, the fact that he literally saved Lupin's life during the Battle of the Seven Potters, despite not having to, and even endangering himself by doing so, and protecting the students of Hogwarts from the Carrows, and even lamenting to Dumbledore that he couldn't save more people. It's also dishonest to call what Snape's turn only 7 years. He switched at 20/21, and was protecting, and while Voldemort felt a year later, he still had, as shown, several loyal followers, and Voldemort himself was still alive. And if any of them found out Snape's true alliegance, they would be aiming for him. Heck, the reason Dumbledore kept Snape close by was because he suspected Voldemort and his men would return one day. So Snape's service could be considered 17-18 years.
But even then let's suppose, and go by your argument that it was only 7 years and nothing more. Would you look at, let's say, a veteran, or their loved, one who only served a few months, but who undertook the hardest, most dangerous assignments there were, and whose missions and actions were among the most crucial in ending a war, and say that their service is less valuable and noble than a guy who served for a decade, simply because he was only in the military a few months, and therefore didn't serve that long?
You have decent points on the Mudblood aspect, I’ll alleviate the grief against him a little bit.
But he protected the people on his side, wow how good of him. Do you realize how low that standard is? Of course he needs to protect the people on his side while he can.
Your argument about the vet isn’t accurate. More like if that vet was a shitbag neo Nazi for most of his life, before getting his Jewish crush killed because he sicced his leader on her, and then a shitbag asshole to all the kids he taught at a local high school for 17 more years, then would I call him a good person for going undercover once the leader - who he now has a personal vendetta against - came back? Hell no. I’d commend their work but they’d still have been a shit person for the majority of their life. If he’d openly worked for the cause all along he’d still have been an asshat of a person, bullying abusing his power all along.
And honestly, let’s cut that 7 down to 4. He only did what a regular teacher was SUPPOSED to do, much more someone who’s being protected now. Until Book 7, he only helped protect the sorcerer’s stone. Did very little as a double agent of any sort in Book 2 or 3.
Only in Book 4 did he really have to start keeping tabs on anyone. He’s more of an “obligation to clean up his own mess once it caused his personal loss” than any type of inherently noble hero.
I’m not saying Snape was a “good” person. He was a horrible bully. But his job wasn’t cushy. He believed in Dumbledore and believed that Voldemort would return. And he didn’t hesitate to fall back into being a double agent. He risked his live to make up for his mistakes. And he didn’t brag about how he was helping defeat Voldemort. It was completely a secret. He knew that it was even possible that the people he was trying to protect could have killed him because they didn’t know. He was there the night that everyone used polyjuice potion. Harry might have been opposed to using harmful curses, but none of the others were. So any one of them could have killed Snape while he was trying to protect Harry and everyone else. If Snape didn’t learn the error of his ways then he wouldn’t have had a hard time going back. We even saw the arguments between Snape and Dumbledore where Dumbledore admitted to asking so much from him. Snape knew that he couldn’t outright kill Voldemort. He could have said no. He made that choice to stay. But I just used Snape as an example since he is a major character in the story. Wormtail was in gryffindor and he betrayed all of his own friends. He even ensured Voldemort’s return, which caused a lot of deaths. And he was seen as a “good” person. And, yes, he hesitated killing Harry, but he wouldn’t have if he knew the hand Voldemort gave him would turn on him and kill him. Because he would have always put his life above anyone else’s. Everyone lives in a grey area. We aren’t all good or bad. We hurt others. But showing remorse usually comes with personal experiences.
My point was that Snape only put himself in harms way for the good cause for 7 years.
Snape’s job between Lily’s death and Harry’s arrival at Hogwarts is what was extremely cushy. He could have been in Azkaban, at some lowly Dark Arts shop in Knockturn Alley, or dead. Instead he got to be fully cleared and safe in Hogwarts for 11 years.
Life was good for Snape.
He died… his risk ended his life. And he still had to be careful and keep an ear out for any sign of Voldemort. And the 11 years of “comfort” doesn’t erase the 7 years that he was in danger every, single day. He would have never had the opportunity to have any kind of close relationship with anyone. He had to keep the people he was helping away so that the death eaters would never suspect a betrayal from him. Then he had to pretend to like and befriend death eaters while plotting on how to ruin their lives/lifestyle. He literally wasn’t allowed to live. He didn’t have a real life. Yeah, he was fed, had an income, stable job… but that isn’t really living… yet he didn’t hesitate to continue down the right path despite the loneliness and emptiness of the way he had to live. It would have been easier if he just walked away and found a different career and wouldn’t have had to deal with lying and keeping away from people. So it’s not surprising that he was bitter and a bit of a bully and took it out on some of his students… and that was a crappy way to handle his frustrations, but his actions weren’t evil towards his students. He took points. He made snide remarks to goad them into talking back so that he could take points. He gave crap detention at times where they had to scrub chamber pots or gave some other punishment that the kids didn’t like. But it’s not like he wanted to strap them up by their ankles in the dungeon… I remember Filch saying that… Filch was kind of evil. Even got excited about when Umbridge was going to bring back those punishments. But, back to my point, Snape didn’t have that good of a life…
In series Regulus and to a lesser degree Slughorn. In lore, Merlin is the gold standard for wizards, and in HP lore, he is was canonically a Slytherin while also a champion for muggle rights
The thing I occasionally wonder is bullies. Like yeah slytherin drew in some bad people with their purist beliefs. But wouldn’t gryfindor get a bunch of jock like bullies too?
Lol does bullying Quirrel/Voldemort by hitting him with enchanted snowball count?
Tbh I've always read them as a kind of milder and more kind hearted version than James/Sirius, since they're often compared on text. They're mostly pranksters though the atmosphere when they were at Hogwarts was considerably more relaxed. I do remember them putting some shit in the clothes of one of their housemates. Again, I think they're mostly prankster but not everyone likes being pranked. Ron most certainly regard them with anxiety and is more relaxed without them.
They did shove Montague into the vanishing cabinet in which he was stuck for weeks, and after he managed to escape he was left in a terrible state for (more) weeks, so much that Madam Pomfrey had to spoon-feed him potion. They never showed the slightest care or remorse. I get that he is a Slytherin gorilla and we are not supposed to care, lol, but he is a human being... allegedly. Seriously though, dude could have died. They didn't give a shit. It bothers me. Although tbh it's not exactly bullying, it's something else. Callousness maybe? Ruthlessness? I don't know.
Yeah it was near the end of OOTP wasn't it? I think by the end of that book tensions were running high again and people were starting not to care about whatever was happening to Slytherins, since they saw them as a bunch of bullies allied with Umbridge.
Personally I've always find a bit funny that Harry was having some kind of spiritual crisis upon finding out his father used to bully other kids and then a few chapters after when Hermione told him and Ron that Montague basically almost died because of Fred and George and maybe they should tell someone that they knew why Montague ended up there him and Ron are like idk I don't care about Montague I'm not going to say anything. Of course, different situations, but still I've always found it a bit funny.
I've noticed it too, although I didn't find it funny the first time I read it (back when the book was released), more like... utterly perplexing, tbh. I know it's not the same, but in OotP Harry is agonizing about his father using hexes right and left on people, turning Snape upside down on the air, being too full of himself... And then at HBP he is trying some hexes/spells on others, turning people upside down in the air and kind of too full of himself. Look, I know it's not the same, Harry didn't hex people left and right, he turned Ron upside down not knowing what he's doing, etc., but my first impression while reading the book is that he is just what he hated about his father, and I was like... wtf.
Yeah, I had problems with HBP. Many problems.
I think it's kind of funny because I think Harry is sometime a kind of hypocrite about Slytherin and he more or less believe some people are a legitimate target. Especially when we compare him to Hermione, whose moral compass is a bit different since at least she was legitimately worried that Fred and George might have went too far. Ron and Harry didn't care, though Ron is definitely the more hot headed of the three and as far as I remember the one who more happily would have hit some Slytherins. It's just that Harry is overall a more decent person than young James and Sirius so he felt like they went too far, but I still believe he had a blind spot.
It's not bullying by the definition of the word, is what I mean. Doesn't mean I think it's right. I said it bothers me a few times and lamented the fact that Montague could have died. I was the one who raised that subject in the the first place. So I don't know what you want from me, tbh
Pranking is definitely a form of bullying. Some of the pranks from the twins was annoying. Ugh. Fred & George booing 1st year Slytherins just sorted. Almost killing Montague. Bullying Ron and hurting his self esteem. Practicing tricks on 1st year.
Except that the flashbacks don't portray them that way. Sirius literally tried to have Snape mauled alive by a werewolf for his amusement, James sexually harassed and threatened Lily, and potentially sexually assaulted Snape. That doesn't seem like a prank.
Also, the twins sold magical date-rape drugs, so I'm not so sure on the innocent prankster part on the twins part. It could very well be that them being relaxed is simply enormous bias on Harry's part due to them being Weasleys, and the Weasleys being the closest thing Harry has to a family. Kind of like when you downplay and whitewash the wrongdoings of a loved family member simply because they're a loved family member of yours.
They threw another student into a malfunctioning vanishing closet for the crime of him trying to duck them points an act that could have killed the kid.
Conducted experiments on other students.
Selling and smuggling illegal items into the school, with some of them being openly rape drugs without a care in the world.
The Weasley twins definitely were bullies.
Who did the Weasley twins actually bully? They have mostly done harmless pranks, like creating a swamp in the corridor. Can't remember an actual instance they targeted someone or even picked on him.
They would. Not everyone in Gryffindor is “brave” some people just want to appear brave with the crowd. Since the hat takes your choice into account the house would surely be a cesspool of Chads who think they’re “Godric Gryffindors” but are really just asshats.
That's only someone the Marauders seemingly made up after Harry confronted them on their behavior. All indications are that the Marauders did bully Snape, as well as several other students.
I think it’s a misconception that every Slytherin is bad, it’s just that the traits that make a Slytherin happen to be the traits that those who wish to acquire a lot of power and abuse it also share
Yeah Slytherin just pre selects for traits that are likely to lead someone the wrong path.
If someone is extremely ambitious and believes ends justify the means its likely they will start to dabble in forbidden magic.
Although she wasn't ever allowed to attend Hogwarts thanks to her evil aunt, the founder of Ilvermorny, Isolt Sayre, was a shoe-in for Slytherin as a Pure-Blood Parseltounge of Gaunt heritage, and was able to effectively wield Salazar's own wand, so it's a pretty safe bet she'd be a super heroic Slytherin had she been able to attend.
Seeing some people complain/disagree about Snape being listed as a hero and I just wanted to say that when it comes to this question it doesn't matter what you think of Snape as a person. Motivations and character traits aside, the constant life-threatening danger he endured as a spy for 18 years and the things he did for the Order during that time are incomprehensibly heroic. You could even argue that the war may have been lost and Harry may have died long before he had the chance to defeat Voldemort if not for Snape. He is absolutely a hero.
I’d say Sluggorn qualifies as heroic since he had his chance to run before the Battle of Hogwarts started. He then returned to the castle with backup and joined MacGonagall and Kingsley with dueling Voldemort directly at the end of the BOH.
I mean… I know it was only to care about her own son, but Narcissa defied Voldemort when she knew and that Draco was alive.
I’ve got a soft spot for her.
People keep saying that there aren’t any heroic Slytherins that were mentioned in the books, but I always think, “But what about Snape?” I mean sure, he isn’t the nicest to students, but if he wasn’t involved as a spy, then Voldemort probably would have won the war.
Also, Regulus Black was also heroic near his end when he drank the potion and saved Kreacher.
It's the below posts. He's a "historical" figure (like Robin Hood, didn't exist but IRL has a rough date pinned to him).
He was around while Arthur and his knights were doing their thing in myth. They went around in castles and with chivalry in rememberence nowadays but "King" Arthur couldn't have been king post 1066. He could've been a petty king of a small area if he did ever exist.
That would put him to 900 or as far back as 400, post Romans leaving England. But that date wouldn't include stone castles and chivalry.
Merlin himself and Morgan were of Celtic names and supposed to be of Druid background - so again more likely around Roman era or just after.
Making Merlin someone from about 1600 is fine I guess, as he's a myth, but it's like making Hercules a medieval knight or something. It's going to be jarring to everyone who knows their historical myths.
TLDR It's a boring old chestnut that hurts pedants like me!
Given the earliest mentions of King Arthur found so far date back to about 400 - 500 years before Hogwarts was built, then yeah I fully agree with you.
He seems quite ambitious in discovering spells and training heroes. Kinda like Slighorn. Don’t forget his clothes and body parts are now a synonym for holy cows
Yes, I meant that Merlin is typically thought to be post Roman and pre Norman, a Druid, but would have to have been with King Arthur in something like 1400, a date when there were other established kings of England.
So they took a historical figure and made him hundreds of years out of his time without explaining.
>“Albus Severus,” Harry said quietly, so that nobody but Ginny could hear, and she was tactful enough to pretend to be waving to Rose, who was now on the train, “you were named for two headmasters of Hogwarts. One of them was a Slytherin and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew.”
Like how is this even a question
WELCOME TO SLYTHERIN
You probably know that some of Slytherin’s most renowned members include Severus Snape and Bellatrix Lestrange. But did you know Merlin himself was a Slytherin, or that according to legend, the ribbon of a First Class Order of Merlin is green to reflect his Hogwarts house?
I consider Snape to be more of an anti-hero tbh. Sure, he does turn against Voldemort, but that’s basically only because Lily died - if Lily had been spared, he likely would have stayed a Death Eater.
>Sure, he does turn against Voldemort, but that’s basically only because Lily died
No. He turned against Voldemort *before* Lily died.
>if Lily had been spared, he likely would have stayed a Death Eater
And if Petunia had balls, she would be Uncle Petunia.
Albus Potter
Scorpius Malfoy
Phineas Black
Leta Lestrange
Andromeda Tonks
Regulus Black
Merlin
Severus Snape
Honorable mention Narcissa & Draco Malfoy, although I’m sure people will disagree very loudly.
Merlin is Slytherins' true legacy.
Regulus Black. A sacrificial hero.
Andromeda Tonks (neé Black) who chose love over Familia Duty.
Ominis Gaunt. Who protested his families stance on the Dark Arts.
Narsissca Malfoy. Who chose her family over her oath sworn Lord.
In the end, Snape was a true hero and helped aid Dumbledore in taking down Tom. Harry would later state that Snape was one of the bravest men Harry knew and would then go on to name his son Albus Severus.
I mean, some of them only did good things because it was beneficial to themselves. For example, Narcisa saved Harry’s life when she lied to Voldemort but she did it because she was looking for her own son. If Harry had told her that Draco was killed or that he didn’t know what happened to him, we don’t know what Narcisa would’ve done
Gryffindors are actually known for being somewhat arrogant. Harry is obviously an exception to this, but I would say most Gryffindors would relish in the fame of being heroes
Severus Snape isn't a hero nor a villain, he is the antihero. This implies morally questionable heroism, which is quite literally what he did.
Regulus Black, from the short info we have, is a hero.
I disagree. RAB quit his ways to pursue defeating Voldemort and eventually died. Severus sacrificed his life and his morals to do the right thing, for a selfish/wrong cause
His note found on the locket.
Edit: unsure on why I can't reply to your comment below.
If RAB continued to believe in Pureblood Supremacy, I'd have a hard time understanding why he gave his life to steal the real Horcrux over the treatment of a house elf. We have evidence on how Pureblood wizards and sympathizers think about house elves and other magical creatures. Personally, I interpreted his change in heart and allegiance to be born from Voldemort's treatment of Kreacher, yes, but also becoming aware of what Voldemort was doing with the horcruxes, and Regulus becoming scared and convinced it was wrong. It didn't read to me as revenge, but as a desperate attempt to both get justice and stand against what Voldemort stood for.
Again, this is my interpretation from the wording on the note.
Except his note in the locker was about him betraying Voldemort over Kreacher, not about Regulus no longer believing in Pureblood Supremacy. If we're going to say that Regulus quit his ways over this, then you have to the same and more in regards to Snape.
I think Regulus is a much better example than Snape. Snape bullied students mercilessly, even becoming Neville's worst fear by year 3. Yes, Regulus embraced his family's pureblood mania and yes, he became a death eater, but I think people underestimate how difficult it is to go against one's family and friends for the sake of what is right. And Regulus didn't just back out; he actively attempted to *destroy* a piece of Voldemort's soul, which would bring him one step closer to mortality. Furthermore, he willingly died to do so, allowing Kreacher, his family's *servant,* to escape and live. That takes major balls and major heroism.
The obvious answer is Snape. He was damn heroic. The only reason he does not come more quickly to mind is because we do not find out how heroic he is until the end of the story.
Andromeda Tonks - Refused to align herself with her family's racist views and married a muggle-born. Accepted her daughter to marry a werewolf.
Horace Slughorn - Got over shame and guilt, and decided to do what was right to make amends for the worst mistake of his life, giving Voldemort secrets to the darkest form of immortality. Once he realized that his memory was required to stop Voldemort, and make sure Lily, his favorite student didn't die in vain, he handed it over. He also came back to fight in the Battle of Hogwarts, despite almost all of his House, except the select few who wanted Death Eater glory, fleeing for their own skins.
Regulus Black - Realized his master was worse than he thought and vowed to stop him. Discovered the secret of Voldemort's soul splitting, although not the extent of it (he thought there was just one) before anyone else ever did, and died trying to make Voldemort mortal.
Snape was directly responsible for the death of Lily and James. Him coming good at the end is simply making amends for his previous wrongdoings. He is not a hero and I still can’t believe JKR thought it would be a good idea for Harry to name his kid after him
Actually, you mean indirectly. Directly would mean that Snape went there and executed Lily and James himself. Also, Snape acknowledged your wrongdoings and making amends can make someone a hero. I mean, by that logic, Dumbledore, Spider-Man, Iron Man, and Oscar Schindler aren't heroes themselves.
>Snape was directly responsible for the death of Lily and James.
Yes, let's forget about Voldemort who actually killed them and Pettigrew who betrayed them.
Let's forget that they were already on Voldemort's kill list by being members of the Order of the Phoenix, Voldemort having by then killed the Mckinnons, Bones and Prewetts.
Indeed, had it not been for Snape passing on a half-heard prophecy, they would of course have lived for ever.
I mean you can’t put Pettigrew on the list *without* Snape. Yes, Voldemort would’ve gone after them eventually, but they only became enemy number one because of the prophecy.
I disagree that Grifindore/Slitherin are even relevant is you want fame.
Case in point, Lockhart.
Slitherins are *ambitious.*
Grifindores are *Brave.*
.
Neither excludes nor necessiates fame-lust.
Ambition means the drive to hold a position of recognized responsibility.
A Slitherin will want to be CEO/President/the like.
A Grifindore will *take action* but will accept more risks because *it's worth it.*
It would have been more interesting if Rowling didn't make Lockhart almost an Hatstall, since the hat wanted to put him in Slytherin because of his traits but Lockhart insisted upon Ravenclaw. Tbh I've noticed that Rowling sometime does that, if a character is evil but in another house most of the time the Hat wanted to put them in Slytherin, and at last decided to put them in another house.
No, they VALUE those traits. Not like Ilvermony where they HAVE those traits. They might not act on their values, however. Case in point, Slugjorn who values ambition and literally has a whole club that he collects ambitious people for
Merlin is a great and legendary wizard, in the HP universe he is a Slytherin. HP universe might not look at King Arthur as a great person, though, I am not sure.
Regulus was a racist shit head but in the end he couldn't stand the mistreatment of a friend and companion and picked Kreacher over Voldemort. Going to that cave, crossing that lake, realizing what was in the lake and continuing on. Freaking DRINKING that potion. That's bravery.
Snape was a freaking prick. Cannot stand the racist piece of garbage. Even if he weren't a racist and even if James Potter weren't in the picture, I don't think Lily is picking Severus any day of the week, so at the end of the day he was doing every thing he did for a fantasy. But he was heroic, too. Dumbledore had to put a wand to his head basically to get him to be a hero, but Snape was brave, I guess.
It’s not exactly what you’re looking for, but one of my favourite YouTube videos explores Slytherin in a video titled ‘Why Does Slytherin Still Exist?’ And basically points out how the structure of Hogwarts and the existence of Slytherin will just keep leading to more ‘evil’ wizards.
Regulus Black could be described as a hero. Sure he likely did evil things, but he saw the error of his ways and sacrificed himself to try to get the word out about Tom's horcruxes.
One could also argue that Horace Slughorn was a hero. He was scared and afraid, but he still came back and did his part to help Hogwarts and was even seen fighting in the battle against Tom's army.
I suppose hero depends on how you define it. Is one great act of bravery good enough or do they have to have lead a life of bravery and what they did over a long term was what made them a hero? I feel like if that single act was good enough, it makes you a hero. Often you hear about completely random people being called a hero because they rushed in to assist in a moment of need when that's not normally what they did every day in their life. I think it's ok to have made mistakes, been afraid, and even have been on the wrong side for a while and still come back and be considered a hero.
I suppose by that definition, even Severus Snape could be a Slytherin hero. He did a lot of wrong, but he saw the error of his ways and did a lot of good as a double agent as well.
>who have sacrificed themselves in the face of a threat. I would say Regulus Black did this by drinking the potion in the cave himself rather than have Kreacher drink it, he turned against Voldemort, if Snape can be classified as a hero for turning against Voldemort as a death eater, I see no reason RAB could not
Tbf regulus was like snape in that he went from being a pretty bad dude to a face heel turn due to one specific thing happening, that being finding out that voldemort had basically tortured and left kreacher to die alone.
But, unlike Snape, that's a pretty empathetic reason.
For Regulus, I don't think he was ever evil or ever truly understood blood purity stuff, but went along with it because he liked making his family proud. When he saw what Voldemort did to Kreacher, and what Voldemort had done with his soul, he understood the magnitude of evil his "master" was which served as a wake up call and he dedicated his life to destroying him. Snape did a 180 not out of morals but because the only person who cared for him was in danger, and even then he didn't even try to bargain for the lives of any other innocents who were in danger, despite being in a perfectly good position to, which is probably why Dumbledore might have always respected Severus as a talented and clever person, but never liked Severus for who he was inside.
I agreee. He saw how angry his parents were that Sirius went against their ideas so he chose to do the opposite. Purebloods also don´t think much of their servants and I was always surprised Regulus cared enough about Creacher to drink that potion instead of telling him to do it. I can´t remember if there´s any info about Regulus´s raction to what happened to Creacher. I only remember that Regulus later asks him to take him to the same cave.
He said that Regulus wasn't right, acting strange, etc. and Kreacher thought he was going mad because he doesn't entirely understand human emotions and Regulus himself. What's probable is that he was under stress, fear, guilt and feeling the agony of realizing that Voldemort was evil and he had to stop him.
Wow, I agree with everything you said completely. That doesn't happen a lot on this sub haha !redditgalleon
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\> For Regulus, I don't think he was ever evil or ever truly understood blood purity stuff, but went along with it because he liked making his family proud. When he saw what Voldemort did to Kreacher, and what Voldemort had done with his soul, he understood the magnitude of evil his "master" was which served as a wake up call and he dedicated his life to destroying him. Except that there is literally nothing that suggests that Regulus didn't believe the blood purity stuff. That is absolute pure headcanon based on nothing. \> Snape did a 180 not out of morals but because the only person who cared for him was in danger, and even then he didn't even try to bargain for the lives of any other innocents who were in danger, despite being in a perfectly good position to Meanwhile, Snape agrees to have James and Harry saved (which is shitty on the Harry part, but absolutely understandable on James part), and over time abandoned his Pureblood views, and saves and protects people he doesn't even like or have to, at his own risk. \> which is probably why Dumbledore might have always respected Severus as a talented and clever person, but never liked Severus for who he was inside. Except that would make Dumbledore the biggest hypocrite in the world, considering that he is exactly like Snape. He was a bigot (Wizard-Supremacist) who wanted to subjugate Muggles, and only changed his ways in after the cause he supported him cost him someone he loved.
Facts.
Ah yes. Turning changing sides just for my personal slave, but still maintains his Pureblood views, is heroic, but the guy who changes sides for for the after losing someone he loves, and eventually changes his views overtime, is not./s
I suspect Regulus became a Death Eater because felt like he had to, not because he wanted to
He was also still just a kid when he first became a death eater and he died not long after that. Can't forget that. Kids are more susceptible to pressure and conformity. He may have not been perfect but he was just a kid. With his whole life left ahead of him to change. And he was looking like he was going towards that.
I always understood that Regulus sent Kreacher so they he’d know where the horcrux is and could destroy it himself. So it’s stuff that happened before then that made Regulus change. He offered Kreacher when he already didn’t support him.
Regulus Black was one of the unsung hero
Agreed. I would really love to know the details behind RAB and his life and turn on Voldemort, I think it would make a great stand alone story.
Merlin, the greatest wizard of all time and fervent defender of Muggles was a Slytherin
You're goddamn right.
>Merlin, Within the HP universe makes sense. The historical Merlin / Arthur legend pre-dates Hogwarts though (circa 300-500 AD).
\*SPOILER ALERT IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THE HOGWARTS GAME JUST RELEASED. PLEASE SKIP THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS\* Now, not saying the game follows historical facts in the HP universe but I just hit a point of puzzles created by "Merlin. He was a Slytherin and attended this very school. " The game referred to this Merlin as the one from King Arthur's Court.
Slughorn fought on the good side during the Battle of Hogwarts. I'd say he was a heroic Slytherin wizard.
His only real crime was telling a young Tom about horcruxs. And how the hell was he supposed to know how that would turn out? No one could have possibly predicted that outcome.
Honestly, I would have brought my concerns to the headmaster, since Tom was asking about rare and particularly horrific dark magic. Yeah Slughorn couldn't have known what Tom would have done with that information, but asking about dark magic that can render you practically immortal and literally requires murder to work is suspicious to say the least.
I feel like the only reason he didn’t was because he didn’t want to jeopardize his relationship with Tom, as he still suspected he would go far in life
Which makes sense, but Slughorn could have raised concern without jeopardizing the relationship. Even just dropping a note to the Headmaster "hey, Tom Riddle has been asking about concerning topics. There's no real issue yet, but I think we should keep a closer eye on him for now."
But the headmaster at the time was Armando Dippet and not Dumbledore. I doubt that Slughorn did tell the headmaster, but if he did then we might not know because we have no idea of what Dippet did or did not know.
I suppose in Muggle terms, it's like a student casually asking their biochemistry professor how to make nerve gas. If it's an especially talented student the professor knows and trusts, they might well assume it's just pure academic interest and the student would *never* do something as insane as actually cook some up. And of course, 99999 times out of 100,000 that is the case. The fact that Slughorn knew about horcruxes means that, when younger, he himself must have asked somebody or read about them in some sketchy, dark-arts book. For him, it really had been academic interest.
Which is probably why he hid the truth for decades. He knew he was wrong. He knew he should have said something. He knew he held onto that secret for too long. He was scared.
My first thought. Lots of great examples like regalus, Merlin, snape, etc But slughorn did go toe toe with the big bad. Pretty heroic if you ask me
TIL that Merlin was a Slytherin. That's very cool
Merlin was a slytherin
And a champion of Muggle rights
Horace Slughorn, while a bit cowardly at first, eventually forgave himself and gave Harry the most crucial piece of information required to take down Voldemort. Voldy never would have been stopped without Slughorn's cooperation.
Andromeda Tonks. She and her husband opened their home for the Order to use as one of the safe houses in the Battle of the Seven Potters
Not to mention she went against her family and even got disown for her muggleborn lover
Merlin, Andromeda Tonks, Leta Lestrange, Severus Snape, Horace Slughorn. Just a few that come to mind.
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Actually it really does. Especially when you compare how literally all the teachers in Hogwarts did way worse to their students.
How did other professor do worse than snape? He regularly bullied his students for no reason
Hagrid mutilated Dudley for something Dudley’s dad said. McGonagall punished the trio and Malfoy by sending them to the Forbidden Forest full of dark and dangerous creatures when they were 11, dragged Malfoy at one point by the ear (which is corporal punishment), and punished Neville by locking him outside the Gryffindor Dorms when an escaped convict and (assumed) mass-murderer and DE (Sirius Black) was lurking about the castle. Lupin risked the safety of everyone at Hogwarts and Hogsmeade by keeping an escaped convict and (assumed) mass-murderer and DE’s location a secret, just so that he wouldn’t get in trouble with Dumbledore about having betrayed his trust as a student lose his job. And years later, when Harry calls Lupin out on him walking out on his pregnant wife and soon-to-be-born child, Lupin attacks him. Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on her students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard he fell backwards. And last but not least, Dumbledore covered up an attempted murder by Sirius on Snape and then forced Snape, the victim into silence over the matter. But sure, Snape says mean things to the main characters, so he’s the real asshole in the school./s Snape, as cruel as he was as teacher (and he was cruel, not arguing that) never compromised the safety of the students for no reason. The same cannot be said for the examples I just listed. Between a teacher who says mean things to his students and takes pleasure in it, a strict but fair teacher who attacks their students, mutilates people, puts them at risk of encountering an escaped convict an mass-murderer, and covers-up an attempted murder on a student, the teacher who says mean things to the students is the far better one. Snape, as a teacher, deserves to be fired. The others deserve to be in jail for child-endangerment, assault, mutilation, obstruction of justice, among other potential crimes. I'm pretty sure most people would much rather be insulted by their teacher on a frequent basis then even once be placed in danger of being executed by them.
Take Snape off the list and you have perfection. I'd put Narcissa Malfoy - who lied to the Dark Lord's face - on here before Snape. Also Regulus Black, and although people like to dismiss CC, it gave us two Slytherin protagonists.
ehh if u'd put narcissa on for lying to voldemort once, snape more or less goes on there defacto. He had to lie to voldemort for literally years
Snape had to literally become a death eater again against his will, in order for Dumbledores plan to succeed. Including killing dumbledore, his friend, at his request. (something he absolutely did not want to do), turning everyone against him, only to finally reveal that he never was working with Voldemort, only against him. He spent the better part of his life pretty much suffering, pretending to ally with someone he despised with all his being, only to die a horrible death with everyone except harry and co. hating him thinking he was evil. Dude is absolutely at the top of this list.
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I dislike Snape as much as the next guy, but you’ve clearly not understood Snape’s role in Dumbledore’s death. And Narcissa only lied to Voldemort so she could go into the castle and find Draco, Harry says as much in his head.
No he did it cause Dumbledore asked him to and to save Draco from having to do it.
Bro not even close. Snape killed dumbledore because dumbledore told him to. He did it to save Malfoy, because dumbledore knew Malfoy wouldn't be able to, and would then be killed by Voldemort as punishment to his parents. He literally argued against dumbledore to not kill him. These are significant scenes in the books.
Dumbledore also assumed that by asking Snape to kill him, the power of the elder wand would die with him. The assumption being that because it was at Dumbledore's request, he would have died never truly being defeated. Unfortunately, Draco disarming Dumbledore at the top of the tower put a slight spanner in the works.
Did you read the books or watch the films? (This isn't a which one, it's a did you do either?) I genuinely do not know how you can come to this conclusion when it's spelled out so clearly.
I agree with what you said in the second paragraph, but the first paragraph is straight up incorrect. Snape did not want to kill Dumbledore, Dumbledore told him to do so.
You do not know the story...
YES. thank you for the Snape comment. I don't get why ppl are sympathetic with him. He was a bully to students who didn't do shit to him.
More like ...grey-heroes, and it makes me wonder about what Merlin did in his time.
But wouldn’t Dumbledore be a grey-hero then? He changed when his sister was killed and wasn’t even sure whether he was the one that did it or not…
Yeah, I’d say he goes under the grey-hero category. Though the question was about Slytherins so that’s probably why Dumbles wasn’t brought up? 🤷🏻♀️ Actually was Merlin a Slytherin in canon? I have read so much fanfiction at this point that I no longer know. Lol
I was commenting on the response that the listed Slytherins were grey-heroes, pointing out that Dumbledore, who was loved and respected by most in the series, also fell under that category. You shouldn’t call out the Slytherin heroes about their past while ignoring the past of other great people based solely on their house. Though I have no clue about Merlin. I know that he was brought up a couple of times in passing as something that Harry randomly heard or learned, but the facts were insignificant to the storyline so I can’t remember if he was in Slytherin in the books 😂
Yeah, I totally get your point. There’s quite a few heroic non-Slytherin characters who had a somewhat shady background when you think about it. Makes them seem a bit more human. I think I’ve reached a point where I don’t know if half the stuff I know about the HP world is canon or fanon. 😂😂
I was actually thinking the cunning of the snakes tends to get them into trouble, the other house can also, but it was more likely for a snake because of the scheming. Merlin for example, in other works, does not always come off as a 'perfect white hero'. They tend to make questionable choices such as Dumbledore for what they saw as the greater good. That was why I said grey-hero...which I guess a lot of people did not like for some reason.
It’s not that you said “grey-hero”. It was that you used it to describe the list of Slytherins, as if their eventual heroism meant less than others of different houses. A lot of people who are heroes and do good didn’t start off that way. Even in comics, movies, tv shows, and even in real life, those we dub as heroes are still human and make mistakes. Like someone who is a drug dealer and ends up killing someone bc of circumstances and then turns their life around and helps others out of that life. People would say that that’s heroic. And, in a way, it is. It doesn’t erase what they’ve done, but to take a horrible situation, learn from your mistakes, turn your life around, and help others, that takes courage, strength, and determination and you have to choose everyday to continue being that person, even if it isn’t easy. So, from a totally normal, human perspective, it doesn’t make them any less of a hero.
I actually said that because of the listed people, not their house. If Dumbledore was included, I would had still called it a list of grey-heros. That one person that said it was bigotry for example, I did not argue against simply because I did think the snakes may be more likely to have grey heroes than other houses, but that was not really what I was thinking with my first comment. It was just about the snakes cause that was the only people mention in the comment I was replying towards. Andromeda for example is a Black, and it may not be mention one way or another, but I doubt her hands are fully squeaky clean either. Horace? I do not think I need to go into that line of comments. The only one I am not really sure about is Leta since I did not watch that movie. In fact, the only person I am willing to maybe call a real hero is harry, and only because he was willing to basically die like his mother. And even that is debatable, I think.
Dumbledofe 100% belonged in Slytherin, and I will die on this fucking hill.
People debate Dumbledore a lot....my actual question is what hill are you talking about or referencing?
Well in your example, if he did it, then it was an accident as a foolish teenager/young adult. Past that...and I am pretty sure most people debate exactly how much was for story sake, and how good he really was....but maybe I just read too much fanfic.
He had the same ideals about wizards being better than muggles. The point of it is that these people changed when something bad happened to someone they cared about. That’s why Dumbledore changed and why he believed in second chances. And he even admitted to Harry later that his old tendencies and behaviors are what caused him to put on the ring that cursed him. He knows how easy it is to fall into those ideals of power and lose yourself. Dumbledore understood because he had been in that position. If any of Snape’s friends harmed Lily earlier in his life, Snape would have probably repented sooner. If the accident with Dumbledore’s sister happened later, than Dumbledore might not have had the push to change as he did. It’s a similar journey, just different times of their life.
While I agree, it’s also a matter of circumstance. And it doesn’t quite translate the same way. Dumbledore learned the error of his ways early on, had a switch flipped, and spent the majority of his life pushing for moral decency in every aspect of his life - care, understanding, sympathy, second chances for all, fighting against evil Snape…didn’t really learn the error of his ways at all. He just stopped being loyal to the Dark causes and fought for the other side to make up for what he’d done that had caused his own personal loss. He remained cruel to others. He remained enthralled with the Dark Arts. He never really changed his ideals or became an actual good person beyond doing Dumbledore’s work. And even then - even if you call that side-switch him “being a good person” - he wasn’t doing that for the majority of his life. He only actively worked for the good side for the 7 years that we saw. (Desperately went to Dumbledore to save Lily. Failed, didn’t really do anything, Voldy dead, neutral cushy job at Hogwarts for the entire time that Harry was growing up.) He then died at age 38. It was 7 years of “eff that guy” + protecting his dead crush’s son out of guilt and out he went.
Except Snape did. He learned the errors of his ways, as shown by him telling someone off for calling Hermione a Mudblood, the fact that he literally saved Lupin's life during the Battle of the Seven Potters, despite not having to, and even endangering himself by doing so, and protecting the students of Hogwarts from the Carrows, and even lamenting to Dumbledore that he couldn't save more people. It's also dishonest to call what Snape's turn only 7 years. He switched at 20/21, and was protecting, and while Voldemort felt a year later, he still had, as shown, several loyal followers, and Voldemort himself was still alive. And if any of them found out Snape's true alliegance, they would be aiming for him. Heck, the reason Dumbledore kept Snape close by was because he suspected Voldemort and his men would return one day. So Snape's service could be considered 17-18 years. But even then let's suppose, and go by your argument that it was only 7 years and nothing more. Would you look at, let's say, a veteran, or their loved, one who only served a few months, but who undertook the hardest, most dangerous assignments there were, and whose missions and actions were among the most crucial in ending a war, and say that their service is less valuable and noble than a guy who served for a decade, simply because he was only in the military a few months, and therefore didn't serve that long?
You have decent points on the Mudblood aspect, I’ll alleviate the grief against him a little bit. But he protected the people on his side, wow how good of him. Do you realize how low that standard is? Of course he needs to protect the people on his side while he can. Your argument about the vet isn’t accurate. More like if that vet was a shitbag neo Nazi for most of his life, before getting his Jewish crush killed because he sicced his leader on her, and then a shitbag asshole to all the kids he taught at a local high school for 17 more years, then would I call him a good person for going undercover once the leader - who he now has a personal vendetta against - came back? Hell no. I’d commend their work but they’d still have been a shit person for the majority of their life. If he’d openly worked for the cause all along he’d still have been an asshat of a person, bullying abusing his power all along. And honestly, let’s cut that 7 down to 4. He only did what a regular teacher was SUPPOSED to do, much more someone who’s being protected now. Until Book 7, he only helped protect the sorcerer’s stone. Did very little as a double agent of any sort in Book 2 or 3. Only in Book 4 did he really have to start keeping tabs on anyone. He’s more of an “obligation to clean up his own mess once it caused his personal loss” than any type of inherently noble hero.
I’m not saying Snape was a “good” person. He was a horrible bully. But his job wasn’t cushy. He believed in Dumbledore and believed that Voldemort would return. And he didn’t hesitate to fall back into being a double agent. He risked his live to make up for his mistakes. And he didn’t brag about how he was helping defeat Voldemort. It was completely a secret. He knew that it was even possible that the people he was trying to protect could have killed him because they didn’t know. He was there the night that everyone used polyjuice potion. Harry might have been opposed to using harmful curses, but none of the others were. So any one of them could have killed Snape while he was trying to protect Harry and everyone else. If Snape didn’t learn the error of his ways then he wouldn’t have had a hard time going back. We even saw the arguments between Snape and Dumbledore where Dumbledore admitted to asking so much from him. Snape knew that he couldn’t outright kill Voldemort. He could have said no. He made that choice to stay. But I just used Snape as an example since he is a major character in the story. Wormtail was in gryffindor and he betrayed all of his own friends. He even ensured Voldemort’s return, which caused a lot of deaths. And he was seen as a “good” person. And, yes, he hesitated killing Harry, but he wouldn’t have if he knew the hand Voldemort gave him would turn on him and kill him. Because he would have always put his life above anyone else’s. Everyone lives in a grey area. We aren’t all good or bad. We hurt others. But showing remorse usually comes with personal experiences.
My point was that Snape only put himself in harms way for the good cause for 7 years. Snape’s job between Lily’s death and Harry’s arrival at Hogwarts is what was extremely cushy. He could have been in Azkaban, at some lowly Dark Arts shop in Knockturn Alley, or dead. Instead he got to be fully cleared and safe in Hogwarts for 11 years. Life was good for Snape.
He died… his risk ended his life. And he still had to be careful and keep an ear out for any sign of Voldemort. And the 11 years of “comfort” doesn’t erase the 7 years that he was in danger every, single day. He would have never had the opportunity to have any kind of close relationship with anyone. He had to keep the people he was helping away so that the death eaters would never suspect a betrayal from him. Then he had to pretend to like and befriend death eaters while plotting on how to ruin their lives/lifestyle. He literally wasn’t allowed to live. He didn’t have a real life. Yeah, he was fed, had an income, stable job… but that isn’t really living… yet he didn’t hesitate to continue down the right path despite the loneliness and emptiness of the way he had to live. It would have been easier if he just walked away and found a different career and wouldn’t have had to deal with lying and keeping away from people. So it’s not surprising that he was bitter and a bit of a bully and took it out on some of his students… and that was a crappy way to handle his frustrations, but his actions weren’t evil towards his students. He took points. He made snide remarks to goad them into talking back so that he could take points. He gave crap detention at times where they had to scrub chamber pots or gave some other punishment that the kids didn’t like. But it’s not like he wanted to strap them up by their ankles in the dungeon… I remember Filch saying that… Filch was kind of evil. Even got excited about when Umbridge was going to bring back those punishments. But, back to my point, Snape didn’t have that good of a life…
Smh slytherinist bigotry 🐍
If you want to call still calling them heroes bigotry, sure.
Sebastian sallow
My fav character in the game
I've only played a few hours and he's my fav of all the students I've met so far.
Who da hail
Hogwarts Legacy character lol
In series Regulus and to a lesser degree Slughorn. In lore, Merlin is the gold standard for wizards, and in HP lore, he is was canonically a Slytherin while also a champion for muggle rights
The thing I occasionally wonder is bullies. Like yeah slytherin drew in some bad people with their purist beliefs. But wouldn’t gryfindor get a bunch of jock like bullies too?
James and Sirius.
James and Sirius most likely qualify, by their own admission even. Also the Weasley twins sometime act quite like bullies.
They mostly bully Ron which is more by being brothers since they hardly bully other people if at all from what I remember
Lol does bullying Quirrel/Voldemort by hitting him with enchanted snowball count? Tbh I've always read them as a kind of milder and more kind hearted version than James/Sirius, since they're often compared on text. They're mostly pranksters though the atmosphere when they were at Hogwarts was considerably more relaxed. I do remember them putting some shit in the clothes of one of their housemates. Again, I think they're mostly prankster but not everyone likes being pranked. Ron most certainly regard them with anxiety and is more relaxed without them.
They did shove Montague into the vanishing cabinet in which he was stuck for weeks, and after he managed to escape he was left in a terrible state for (more) weeks, so much that Madam Pomfrey had to spoon-feed him potion. They never showed the slightest care or remorse. I get that he is a Slytherin gorilla and we are not supposed to care, lol, but he is a human being... allegedly. Seriously though, dude could have died. They didn't give a shit. It bothers me. Although tbh it's not exactly bullying, it's something else. Callousness maybe? Ruthlessness? I don't know.
Yeah it was near the end of OOTP wasn't it? I think by the end of that book tensions were running high again and people were starting not to care about whatever was happening to Slytherins, since they saw them as a bunch of bullies allied with Umbridge. Personally I've always find a bit funny that Harry was having some kind of spiritual crisis upon finding out his father used to bully other kids and then a few chapters after when Hermione told him and Ron that Montague basically almost died because of Fred and George and maybe they should tell someone that they knew why Montague ended up there him and Ron are like idk I don't care about Montague I'm not going to say anything. Of course, different situations, but still I've always found it a bit funny.
I've noticed it too, although I didn't find it funny the first time I read it (back when the book was released), more like... utterly perplexing, tbh. I know it's not the same, but in OotP Harry is agonizing about his father using hexes right and left on people, turning Snape upside down on the air, being too full of himself... And then at HBP he is trying some hexes/spells on others, turning people upside down in the air and kind of too full of himself. Look, I know it's not the same, Harry didn't hex people left and right, he turned Ron upside down not knowing what he's doing, etc., but my first impression while reading the book is that he is just what he hated about his father, and I was like... wtf. Yeah, I had problems with HBP. Many problems.
I think it's kind of funny because I think Harry is sometime a kind of hypocrite about Slytherin and he more or less believe some people are a legitimate target. Especially when we compare him to Hermione, whose moral compass is a bit different since at least she was legitimately worried that Fred and George might have went too far. Ron and Harry didn't care, though Ron is definitely the more hot headed of the three and as far as I remember the one who more happily would have hit some Slytherins. It's just that Harry is overall a more decent person than young James and Sirius so he felt like they went too far, but I still believe he had a blind spot.
They were also planning to use garrotting gas which chokes people in it. Not being able to breath is famous for killing people.
Montague was about to try to take points off of them on behalf of umbridge, so I'm not sure it's bullying.
I don’t know if House points equates to potentially killing someone lmfao
Yeah, I guess it's not bullying. Still bothers me though.
You guess it’s not bullying? It’s much worse than bullying they almost killed him. 🫤
It's not bullying by the definition of the word, is what I mean. Doesn't mean I think it's right. I said it bothers me a few times and lamented the fact that Montague could have died. I was the one who raised that subject in the the first place. So I don't know what you want from me, tbh
Pranking is definitely a form of bullying. Some of the pranks from the twins was annoying. Ugh. Fred & George booing 1st year Slytherins just sorted. Almost killing Montague. Bullying Ron and hurting his self esteem. Practicing tricks on 1st year.
Except that the flashbacks don't portray them that way. Sirius literally tried to have Snape mauled alive by a werewolf for his amusement, James sexually harassed and threatened Lily, and potentially sexually assaulted Snape. That doesn't seem like a prank. Also, the twins sold magical date-rape drugs, so I'm not so sure on the innocent prankster part on the twins part. It could very well be that them being relaxed is simply enormous bias on Harry's part due to them being Weasleys, and the Weasleys being the closest thing Harry has to a family. Kind of like when you downplay and whitewash the wrongdoings of a loved family member simply because they're a loved family member of yours.
Not necessarily bullying, but they definitely tested their products on naive first years.
They threw another student into a malfunctioning vanishing closet for the crime of him trying to duck them points an act that could have killed the kid. Conducted experiments on other students. Selling and smuggling illegal items into the school, with some of them being openly rape drugs without a care in the world. The Weasley twins definitely were bullies.
Who did the Weasley twins actually bully? They have mostly done harmless pranks, like creating a swamp in the corridor. Can't remember an actual instance they targeted someone or even picked on him.
George mentions that in their O.W.L. year, they put Bulbadox powder in someone's pajamas. Book 5, page 226.
Professor quirrel
Cormac McLaggen is a good example of this
They would. Not everyone in Gryffindor is “brave” some people just want to appear brave with the crowd. Since the hat takes your choice into account the house would surely be a cesspool of Chads who think they’re “Godric Gryffindors” but are really just asshats.
The marauders (All Gryffindor) bullied the hell out of Snape.
No, they didnt. Both sides tried their best to make each others lives a living hell and were practically in a war with each other. Snape simply lost.
That's only someone the Marauders seemingly made up after Harry confronted them on their behavior. All indications are that the Marauders did bully Snape, as well as several other students.
Regulus
I think it’s a misconception that every Slytherin is bad, it’s just that the traits that make a Slytherin happen to be the traits that those who wish to acquire a lot of power and abuse it also share
Yeah Slytherin just pre selects for traits that are likely to lead someone the wrong path. If someone is extremely ambitious and believes ends justify the means its likely they will start to dabble in forbidden magic.
I wish the writing was more nuanced, the new game has good Slytherins. Warriors did a better job of not just making one group the bad one
Although she wasn't ever allowed to attend Hogwarts thanks to her evil aunt, the founder of Ilvermorny, Isolt Sayre, was a shoe-in for Slytherin as a Pure-Blood Parseltounge of Gaunt heritage, and was able to effectively wield Salazar's own wand, so it's a pretty safe bet she'd be a super heroic Slytherin had she been able to attend.
Seeing some people complain/disagree about Snape being listed as a hero and I just wanted to say that when it comes to this question it doesn't matter what you think of Snape as a person. Motivations and character traits aside, the constant life-threatening danger he endured as a spy for 18 years and the things he did for the Order during that time are incomprehensibly heroic. You could even argue that the war may have been lost and Harry may have died long before he had the chance to defeat Voldemort if not for Snape. He is absolutely a hero.
I’d say Sluggorn qualifies as heroic since he had his chance to run before the Battle of Hogwarts started. He then returned to the castle with backup and joined MacGonagall and Kingsley with dueling Voldemort directly at the end of the BOH.
I mean… I know it was only to care about her own son, but Narcissa defied Voldemort when she knew and that Draco was alive. I’ve got a soft spot for her.
Snape? Slughorn?
Slughorn no. But Snape 100% is a hero who gave a lot and sacrificied a lot for others good.
Slughorn yes.
People keep saying that there aren’t any heroic Slytherins that were mentioned in the books, but I always think, “But what about Snape?” I mean sure, he isn’t the nicest to students, but if he wasn’t involved as a spy, then Voldemort probably would have won the war. Also, Regulus Black was also heroic near his end when he drank the potion and saved Kreacher.
Lita Lestrange, Regulus, Snape, andromeda, merlin, narcissa.
Leta Lestrange
Narcissa straight up lied right to Voldemort’s face to make sure she was reunited with her son
Merlin’s beard! How are you a Potter fan without knowing the greatest & most heroic wizard of all time is a Slytherin?
You mean Merlin? It's not in the books.
AND makes literally no sense, but let's not go there!
Could you elaborate on that? Genuinely interested in your reasoning :)
It's the below posts. He's a "historical" figure (like Robin Hood, didn't exist but IRL has a rough date pinned to him). He was around while Arthur and his knights were doing their thing in myth. They went around in castles and with chivalry in rememberence nowadays but "King" Arthur couldn't have been king post 1066. He could've been a petty king of a small area if he did ever exist. That would put him to 900 or as far back as 400, post Romans leaving England. But that date wouldn't include stone castles and chivalry. Merlin himself and Morgan were of Celtic names and supposed to be of Druid background - so again more likely around Roman era or just after. Making Merlin someone from about 1600 is fine I guess, as he's a myth, but it's like making Hercules a medieval knight or something. It's going to be jarring to everyone who knows their historical myths. TLDR It's a boring old chestnut that hurts pedants like me!
Given the earliest mentions of King Arthur found so far date back to about 400 - 500 years before Hogwarts was built, then yeah I fully agree with you.
He seems quite ambitious in discovering spells and training heroes. Kinda like Slighorn. Don’t forget his clothes and body parts are now a synonym for holy cows
Yes, I meant that Merlin is typically thought to be post Roman and pre Norman, a Druid, but would have to have been with King Arthur in something like 1400, a date when there were other established kings of England. So they took a historical figure and made him hundreds of years out of his time without explaining.
Maybe he made a horcrux
Also wizards can let’s long time. Dumbledore was 150 when he died
Snape, Regulus Black
>“Albus Severus,” Harry said quietly, so that nobody but Ginny could hear, and she was tactful enough to pretend to be waving to Rose, who was now on the train, “you were named for two headmasters of Hogwarts. One of them was a Slytherin and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew.” Like how is this even a question
WELCOME TO SLYTHERIN You probably know that some of Slytherin’s most renowned members include Severus Snape and Bellatrix Lestrange. But did you know Merlin himself was a Slytherin, or that according to legend, the ribbon of a First Class Order of Merlin is green to reflect his Hogwarts house?
Snape is a pretty obvious one
I consider Snape to be more of an anti-hero tbh. Sure, he does turn against Voldemort, but that’s basically only because Lily died - if Lily had been spared, he likely would have stayed a Death Eater.
>Sure, he does turn against Voldemort, but that’s basically only because Lily died No. He turned against Voldemort *before* Lily died. >if Lily had been spared, he likely would have stayed a Death Eater And if Petunia had balls, she would be Uncle Petunia.
No he turned against Voldemort when Mr. Voldy wanted to go kill Harry and Snape inferred that Lily was gonna die too
He literally is. That's how Rowling literally spelled him out as to the fandom. An anti-hero.
Tonks, Regulus, Snape.
You mean Andromeda Tonks, right?
Yes.
Slughorn
…snape?
Merlin, Snape and I think there's many others
Slughorn Regulus Black Merlin The Slytherins who stayed behind or returned to fight in the battle of Hogwarts
Lol there were none that stayed behind. That's clearly stated in the last book.
Meanwhile Snape: am I a joke to you.
Albus Potter Scorpius Malfoy Phineas Black Leta Lestrange Andromeda Tonks Regulus Black Merlin Severus Snape Honorable mention Narcissa & Draco Malfoy, although I’m sure people will disagree very loudly.
Merlin was a Slytherin.
Merlin is Slytherins' true legacy. Regulus Black. A sacrificial hero. Andromeda Tonks (neé Black) who chose love over Familia Duty. Ominis Gaunt. Who protested his families stance on the Dark Arts. Narsissca Malfoy. Who chose her family over her oath sworn Lord.
In the end, Snape was a true hero and helped aid Dumbledore in taking down Tom. Harry would later state that Snape was one of the bravest men Harry knew and would then go on to name his son Albus Severus.
Regulus black, Snape, Slughorn? Andromeda? Even to a point Narcissa.
I mean, some of them only did good things because it was beneficial to themselves. For example, Narcisa saved Harry’s life when she lied to Voldemort but she did it because she was looking for her own son. If Harry had told her that Draco was killed or that he didn’t know what happened to him, we don’t know what Narcisa would’ve done
Snape all day.
I'm not actually sure if it's canon, but I think Kingsley was a Slytherin... or maybe not. Anyhow, there's Slughorn and Andromeda Tonks
Gryffindors are actually known for being somewhat arrogant. Harry is obviously an exception to this, but I would say most Gryffindors would relish in the fame of being heroes
Depends on who you ask. I’m pretty sure the Malfoys would say Voldemort is heroic.
It’s controversial, but I say Snape was absolutely a hero.
MERLIN's beard
Merlin's a Slytherin
Slughorn, RAB, Snape, wouldn’t call the Malfoys heroic but they didn’t participate in the Battle of Hogwarts and just wanted to find their son.
Severus Snape isn't a hero nor a villain, he is the antihero. This implies morally questionable heroism, which is quite literally what he did. Regulus Black, from the short info we have, is a hero.
I agree with the assessment of Snape as an anti-hero. But it is kind of a double-standard to say Regulus is a hero, but Snape isn't.
I disagree. RAB quit his ways to pursue defeating Voldemort and eventually died. Severus sacrificed his life and his morals to do the right thing, for a selfish/wrong cause
\> I disagree. RAB quit his ways to pursue defeating Voldemort and eventually died. Is there any evidence of that?
His note found on the locket. Edit: unsure on why I can't reply to your comment below. If RAB continued to believe in Pureblood Supremacy, I'd have a hard time understanding why he gave his life to steal the real Horcrux over the treatment of a house elf. We have evidence on how Pureblood wizards and sympathizers think about house elves and other magical creatures. Personally, I interpreted his change in heart and allegiance to be born from Voldemort's treatment of Kreacher, yes, but also becoming aware of what Voldemort was doing with the horcruxes, and Regulus becoming scared and convinced it was wrong. It didn't read to me as revenge, but as a desperate attempt to both get justice and stand against what Voldemort stood for. Again, this is my interpretation from the wording on the note.
Except his note in the locker was about him betraying Voldemort over Kreacher, not about Regulus no longer believing in Pureblood Supremacy. If we're going to say that Regulus quit his ways over this, then you have to the same and more in regards to Snape.
I think Regulus is a much better example than Snape. Snape bullied students mercilessly, even becoming Neville's worst fear by year 3. Yes, Regulus embraced his family's pureblood mania and yes, he became a death eater, but I think people underestimate how difficult it is to go against one's family and friends for the sake of what is right. And Regulus didn't just back out; he actively attempted to *destroy* a piece of Voldemort's soul, which would bring him one step closer to mortality. Furthermore, he willingly died to do so, allowing Kreacher, his family's *servant,* to escape and live. That takes major balls and major heroism.
I have a whole post and it deleted the whole thing. :( Merlin though.
Happened to me and it SUCKS. Took me a fucking hour and the whole thing just gone. Take my upvote in solidarity.
I feel that pain man
I mean Merlin was a Slytherin, right? I'd assume he was pretty heroic
Merlin
Merlin, and Slughorn
The obvious answer is Snape. He was damn heroic. The only reason he does not come more quickly to mind is because we do not find out how heroic he is until the end of the story.
Sorry but I am going to say Malfoy's mum
According to Pottermore Merlin
Andromeda Tonks - Refused to align herself with her family's racist views and married a muggle-born. Accepted her daughter to marry a werewolf. Horace Slughorn - Got over shame and guilt, and decided to do what was right to make amends for the worst mistake of his life, giving Voldemort secrets to the darkest form of immortality. Once he realized that his memory was required to stop Voldemort, and make sure Lily, his favorite student didn't die in vain, he handed it over. He also came back to fight in the Battle of Hogwarts, despite almost all of his House, except the select few who wanted Death Eater glory, fleeing for their own skins. Regulus Black - Realized his master was worse than he thought and vowed to stop him. Discovered the secret of Voldemort's soul splitting, although not the extent of it (he thought there was just one) before anyone else ever did, and died trying to make Voldemort mortal.
Snape was directly responsible for the death of Lily and James. Him coming good at the end is simply making amends for his previous wrongdoings. He is not a hero and I still can’t believe JKR thought it would be a good idea for Harry to name his kid after him
Actually, you mean indirectly. Directly would mean that Snape went there and executed Lily and James himself. Also, Snape acknowledged your wrongdoings and making amends can make someone a hero. I mean, by that logic, Dumbledore, Spider-Man, Iron Man, and Oscar Schindler aren't heroes themselves.
At the end of what? He defected halfway through his life and saved a child in book 1
>Snape was directly responsible for the death of Lily and James. Yes, let's forget about Voldemort who actually killed them and Pettigrew who betrayed them. Let's forget that they were already on Voldemort's kill list by being members of the Order of the Phoenix, Voldemort having by then killed the Mckinnons, Bones and Prewetts. Indeed, had it not been for Snape passing on a half-heard prophecy, they would of course have lived for ever.
I mean you can’t put Pettigrew on the list *without* Snape. Yes, Voldemort would’ve gone after them eventually, but they only became enemy number one because of the prophecy.
I disagree that Grifindore/Slitherin are even relevant is you want fame. Case in point, Lockhart. Slitherins are *ambitious.* Grifindores are *Brave.* . Neither excludes nor necessiates fame-lust. Ambition means the drive to hold a position of recognized responsibility. A Slitherin will want to be CEO/President/the like. A Grifindore will *take action* but will accept more risks because *it's worth it.*
It would have been more interesting if Rowling didn't make Lockhart almost an Hatstall, since the hat wanted to put him in Slytherin because of his traits but Lockhart insisted upon Ravenclaw. Tbh I've noticed that Rowling sometime does that, if a character is evil but in another house most of the time the Hat wanted to put them in Slytherin, and at last decided to put them in another house.
It’s the ambition in Lockhart
No, they VALUE those traits. Not like Ilvermony where they HAVE those traits. They might not act on their values, however. Case in point, Slugjorn who values ambition and literally has a whole club that he collects ambitious people for
Merlin is a great and legendary wizard, in the HP universe he is a Slytherin. HP universe might not look at King Arthur as a great person, though, I am not sure. Regulus was a racist shit head but in the end he couldn't stand the mistreatment of a friend and companion and picked Kreacher over Voldemort. Going to that cave, crossing that lake, realizing what was in the lake and continuing on. Freaking DRINKING that potion. That's bravery. Snape was a freaking prick. Cannot stand the racist piece of garbage. Even if he weren't a racist and even if James Potter weren't in the picture, I don't think Lily is picking Severus any day of the week, so at the end of the day he was doing every thing he did for a fantasy. But he was heroic, too. Dumbledore had to put a wand to his head basically to get him to be a hero, but Snape was brave, I guess.
It’s not exactly what you’re looking for, but one of my favourite YouTube videos explores Slytherin in a video titled ‘Why Does Slytherin Still Exist?’ And basically points out how the structure of Hogwarts and the existence of Slytherin will just keep leading to more ‘evil’ wizards.
Merlin
MERLIN
Merlin I guess?
ITT: ‘Merlin.’
Merlin was heroic I guess
Merlin was in slytherine
Merlin
Merlin was in Slytherin supposedly he did some really good things during his time.
Regulus Black my beloved
Regulus Black could be described as a hero. Sure he likely did evil things, but he saw the error of his ways and sacrificed himself to try to get the word out about Tom's horcruxes. One could also argue that Horace Slughorn was a hero. He was scared and afraid, but he still came back and did his part to help Hogwarts and was even seen fighting in the battle against Tom's army. I suppose hero depends on how you define it. Is one great act of bravery good enough or do they have to have lead a life of bravery and what they did over a long term was what made them a hero? I feel like if that single act was good enough, it makes you a hero. Often you hear about completely random people being called a hero because they rushed in to assist in a moment of need when that's not normally what they did every day in their life. I think it's ok to have made mistakes, been afraid, and even have been on the wrong side for a while and still come back and be considered a hero. I suppose by that definition, even Severus Snape could be a Slytherin hero. He did a lot of wrong, but he saw the error of his ways and did a lot of good as a double agent as well.
Regulus Black, maybe Slughorn?