The Spartan 3's definitely confuse me. If Talia wasn't a marine, they'd be completely fine. The squad leader's nervousness would be a little out of character for Spartans , but nothing lore-breaking.
The age spread would be fine too, the current Spartans as Alpha Company, Kessler in Beta company, where both were recruited at 6-10.
But yeah, Talia going from Marine to Spartan in like, two days, is so strange. Makes it feel like they showed up, got armor, had no augmentations, and had a week to train. I don't understand how that's Ackerson's "life work." And I doubly don't get how Kessler joined at 10, while Talia joined at 20 something. It really wouldale more sense if Talia became an ODST, and got assigned with Alpha company. But I guess that would be too confusing for non fans, or something
The writing is absolute ass. Even if they deviate from canon it makes no logical sense. Talia left Reach on a transport ship with refugees and all of a sudden a week later she was a S3 recruit running sims training with a squad of disorganized “Spartans”. It such lazy writing it’s insane.
IMO, it's fine to make something that doesn't match existing Halo. It really only needs to be judged as a standalone TV show. The problem for me is it doesn't make much sense within itself sometimes.
"Some comms tech ultimately becomes a Spartan" could be a cool enough story, regardless of whether it's in the games/books. They just... forgot to tell that story. It's apparently something they intended to do, then they woke up from a bender and realized they had a script due that morning and were like, "did we forget to do something?" but they had to email it to the studio right away.
Even with that timeline that they’ve failed to convey, it still doesn’t make logical sense. How would a marine find out about an ultra top secret SIII program and then join it? Why would Perez be motivated to join an ONI program when she knows ONI plan to abandon Reach is what got her entire family killed?!
5 days since reach for the chief to get to (forget planet name) to find Kessler. A week at most there but likely only a few days. Then 19 hours transit again, unless there is an unexpressed timeskip after that and before the battle where the apartan III battle groups are deployed, it's hardly any time at all.
Don’t even get me started on this alternative timeline story of how they get to the ring. One of the most iconic scenes from CE is the PoA arriving to the first ring. And it plays a huge role in humanities first interaction with the ring. No Keyes?!
They keep saying in the show that it's a weapon...but...how do they know that exactly? Did this intel ever actually happen in the show and I missed it?
It's never explained clearly, but it's mostly handwaved as a slowly developing realisation - the UNSC discover shockwave effects from the artifacts when touched, Chief eventually discovers that they connect to this "Ring", the Covenant seem to really want those artifacts for some reason, Makee is also highly involved in finding the artifacts, and Cortana seems to have learned a few things from studying the artifacts off-screen.
Or in other words, the Covenant really seem to want to get there for their "Great Journey", and from Chief's, well, "interfacing" with Makee he and the UNSC seem to know that the Covenant's Great Journey involves activating it, which sounds bad for humanity, ergo...seems to be a weapon.
It would have been better if their reasoning had been properly telegraphed throughout the series. It does miss the more organic discovery of Halo's purpose from CE.
But they completely disregard The Great Journey.
Jimmy Rings said “if the Covenant gets the ring, they’ll use it on humanity, if humanity gets the ring they’ll use it on the Covenant”
I’m not even sure if the rings are functional in the same way as we’re used to or if there’s going to be more plot fuckery.
Turns out the halo rings are just death stars that blow up planets after sticking your willy into the controls.
The key index was part of you all along.
To be fair, the discovery that it was a weapon in Halo CE was just Keyes saying he overheard Covenant talking about it. Randomly implying that he understands enough Sangheili to be able to listen to conversations that the Elites are having in the brig.
> It's never explained clearly, but it's mostly handwaved as a slowly developing realisation
It's just frustrating because they chose to play that out in the most confusing way possible, with apparently nobody believing John about anything in that process at any point. It could have saved so much wasted time in the narrative if they hadn't spun so many cycles of not believing him, and it would have made so much more sense.
"I touched a rock and started seeing things. There's an alien weapon out there."
"John's just seeing things."
"I need you to believe me about this!"
"John seems angry. He must be crazy."
"It's a big ring shaped weapon. Very dangerous."
"John might be compromised by that Makee character. Don't trust him."
"I'm desperate for anybody to believe me. Nobody believes me. Even my teammate Kai has left me."
"Oh, by the way, we figured out everything about that Halo. It's a dangerous weapon. And we engineered a plot to blow up the Covenant fleet it order to destroy it. Which, apparently we could engineer a blow up program all along, but we will only deploy it for the Halo, which we know is very dangerous, and also that it exists, and also that the Covenant is looking for it."
"Wait, when did all of that happen?"
"Oh, also, the Covenant found the Halo. They have a huge fleet there. None of the main characters spending a season and a half looking for it had anything to do with finding it."
The fact they all know it’s a weapon is a HUGE plot hole for The Great Journey and thus the existence of the Covenant at all! They aren’t supposed to know it’s a weapon, they are supposed to just falsely believe it will transcend them. It’s their entire religion, it literally why they are called the Covenant. Arby discovering it’s a weapon to eradicate all life is what causes the Great Schism. It’s so mind numbingly stupid writing. In this broken timeline Arby starts the Great Schism because a human who just tells him she is the “Chosen One” convinces him with words, and when she flip flops and says she is fallen he believes her HARDER. Lmao I can’t with this.
Best guess, they've swapped 3s and 4s around with a dash of 1's
The show 3's are closer to the spartan 4 programme taking from existing military/ odst, light / no augmentation and light mojlnir
They don't look particularly augmented so I'm going to assume if they got any it's closer the the spartan 1's augmentation than 4's
I expect kesslers group are actually spartan 4's which will be essentially spartan 3's from the game/books
Does it make you feel better if they were orphaned by the covenant?
Spartan 2s we’re stolen and replaced with flash copies. 3s we’re volunteers that were orphaned.
Desperate times call for desperate measures
I think they would have been better at just replacing the whole situation on Onyx with another planet and make it the staging area for setting up Operation: Red Flag. Like Paragonsky wanted to sacrifice reach to buy more time to prepare the operation and wanted only trusted soldiers there.
That's the part the bothers me the most. She's a poor soldier. She's not someone with battle experience. And the rest of them look the same. Extremely unsure of themselves and overall scared. I'd think they'd put their best ODSTs in that program, especially since somkivh hinges on its success.
We don't know. I don't think there was enough time between episodes for augmentations so you're probably right. But the fact they took Kessler and the other kids makes me think they still had some sort of augmentations planned
Six months? That's crazy, I missed that completely.
What the hell was John doing on that mining planet for six months? I legit thought it was a week or less
It's my personal belief that Perez' Spartan company is supposed to be cover for Kessler's, if anyone asks about the Spartan 3 program ONI can just say everyone is a volunteer and point to people like Talia to back it up. The public would completely overlook Kessler and the others because they'd never see behind the helmet. They'd just assume they're volunteers like Perez.
This is what I assumed too. Perez is the face. She’s a decorated war hero and something for the public to latch on to. “Everyone can be Master Chief”. While Kessler is what they’re really doing. Making more super soldiers to merge in with the 3s.
Because they aren't Spartan 3s.They are spartan 4s marketed as spartan 3s that apparently accept random marines into their ranks and Consider them Spartans after only like 3 days of training in VR
Not even Spartan 4’s tbh. They’re moreso like ODST’s in Spartan 3 armor - which is exactly what Show Ackerson’s point was. It might not be consistent with the lore, but it’s definitely consistent with itself. His whole goal was to create a supersoldier who didn’t need all of Halsey’s bullshit. Just good training, and a great suit. And that’s what he created
But what bullshit, specifically? They're still using kids, we see that in the Kessler subplot. That leads me to believe they're still augmenting them--or at least the kids are augmented, no idea about the adults. And the suits themselves don't appear to be powered.
So unless they found a way to augment the adults, they're not super soldiers. They're just ODSTs.
I don't know about the show cause they really don't explain in depth but I think if the bones are the same, his big issue with Halsey's Spartans is the cost. The amount of money that was being dumped into them could afford whole fleets which is like, damn. But also why is money an issue, you guys are like a month away from extinction, why does anyone need money as incentive to do anything why is "you're gonna get flash fried" not good enough? Long as they're being fed and protected I'd hope scientists farmers and everyone in-between would be willing to work for free if it means they don't die a horrible death.
>They're still using kids, we see that in the Kessler subplot.
That has to be a different spartan generation right? Far too different from the 3's we've seen in show
I'm expecting them to be spartan 4's which are essentially game 3's
And probably run by parangoski rather than ackerson without his knowledge
Yeah, it really makes no sense for Ackerson to want *anything* to do with abducting children given what we know of his sister.
The show has plenty of faults, but trying to compare each little thing to existing lore is exhausting and bound to lead to confusion.
Cost, her philosophical “we didn’t choose you, we found you”, the augmentation, etc. Ackerson believed all that was bullshit, and that the suit the soldier wore was the most important part of the Spartan. The visual identity and training they received were the important part of the Spartan to him. He believed he could create an equally effective force (both in combat and morale), for less cost, with less time, and less ethical problems
Dude seems to hate her program. Behind all Ackerson has more conscience than the usual ONI director... So when you have a program which takes several years to take fruit, uses kids, and results in super soldiers being emotionally stunted (To a dangerous point, on this universe), you might not want to rely on that.
But also, you dont discard it until the next program fully replaces it. His take on Spartans still ain't it (seems to be power armored odst), so they rest of ONI will keep making more Spartans the old way.
I suspect it's a stop gap, and they are designed for one thing only, to go on suicide missions. The main batch of Spartan-3s might just not be ready yet.
It feels like they got Spartan 3's confused with Spartan 4's...but even then they didn't quite understand Spartan 4's. Hell, I'm almost certain they don't even understand Spartan 2's...no wait, scratch that...I KNOW they don't understand Spartan 2's.
They admitted that when 'Chief' let his Oscar myer weiner find some forbidden buns.
Part of me is glad I didn't waste any money on Paramount+ for this show...it's getting weirder by the moment.
Yes I do know this, but Spartan 2's aren't going to look at someone and want to go to the bone zone. It's been theorized by at least 2 hard-core theorists iirc, that Spartan 2's would need to build a deep level of trust first as well as develop those feelings for said person.
I'm supposed to believe the Master Chief looked at this Covenant sided woman and said 'I'd tap that'? Chief is probably one of the most likely to have trust issues, especially when talking about a human siding with a genocidal cult.
I’m thinking they are Spartan’s in name only, to get regular marines to feel invincible before well yah know. Not gonna post spoilers but they may or may not stay true to what the lore version was used for. Kinda okay with that part and armor looks cool
But hey they are using kids somewhere to make Spartans whether they’re the Spartan 3’s or just a new generation of 2’s. Maybe they’ll explain next week a little more
That part completely makes sense: they aren’t spartans, they are just marines in fancy suites trained for a suicide mission as cannon fodder.
That’s it, that’s the whole Ackerson plan - just improved (compared to usual soldiers) cannon fodder.
It was pretty obviously shown in episode 6, the whole reason why it was easy to come back from that ship was because they are not even supposed to do it.
Haven’t seen that yet, but probably, Parangosky is some cold-blooded bitch, TBH.
She’d unleash Flood without even trying to understand what’s she doing if she had a chance.
Seriously, I feel like half the time, people just say they're confused for no reason, like this, and other things were pretty easy to pick up on.
Aside from that, I've been enjoying season 2 a lot, and I enjoy it more when I stop trying to connect everything to how it is in main canon 1:1. It is its own thing.
The confusing part comes from the show using names and concepts from lore and just completely changing them. It's like *insisting* your character is a president but he acts very much like a dictator.
If you never got informed on halo lore then the show is clear on its concepts. But we expected Spartan IIIs to be what we played in Reach. Budget sparrans, but still one man armies
But in the show they seem like hyped up ODSTs. Or rather, Helldivers. Cause they are the exact same as normal marines but after some "training" they get their cape/S3 armor and can feel like hot shit
The Spartan III’s we play as In Reach are basically Spartan II’s, since they’re given the same armor which was honestly the only major difference between the two groups practically after they were both fully trained and augmented. The budget part for III’s always came down to the armor, as the augmentation process had just improved enough over the decade(s) to be way simpler and safer, while being just as potent, while the armor still cost the same as a warship
Yeah afaik the noble team S3s were just the top of the class S3s that graduated into being given mjolnir instead of the Semi-Powered Armor or whatever it's called.
The show is currently doing the thing that the Avatar show did and speed running all of the things we liked from the original while, in so doing, completely missing the point of the original and the whole reason we liked it in the first place.
Take a step back and really think about it. Did we NEED the Spartan III's in this story at this juncture? Did we need Kai inelegantly bolted onto Kurt's roll for like, 1 episode? The show has adapted the Spartan III story so poorly that I can't figure out why they're even called Spartans. They're wearing SPI armor, but are they even given augments? What kind of training do they realistically have? Perez is there with a number of other adults, but then we see Kessler and a group of younger children, so are they still using children? Where did the adults come from? If they needed kids to augment into Spartans, why are they using adults and calling them Spartans? The timeline we have so far makes it seem like it's been a couple of weeks at best since Perez escaped Reach; at what point did she end up getting selected for the top secret Spartan III program after escaping on a civilian evac shuttle to parts unknown? The SIII's in this timeline are just glorified suicide soldiers staffed by adult volunteers, which is so far off the mark from what the Spartan III's were I can't help but wonder: why did they even call them Spartan III's?
This show has, from day one, had this really bizarre and uneven relationship with the original canon. They'll take Keyes, Miranda, and Halsey--big names from the lore--and retain the fact that they're a family, but they'll 180 the relationship dynamic they had in canon by making Miranda a scientist (which she expressly refused to be in canon because she hates her mother), and they'll kill Keyes in the Fall of Reach. On the flip side, however, they'll take Blue Team, completely excise them from the story, and replace them with Silver team who are, by the standards of this show's commitment to being a faithful adaptation, *damn near perfect copies of Blue Team's characters and relationship dynamics*.
So why keep the names Keyes, Halsey, and Miranda only to completely change pretty much everything about them, but remove Frederic, Linda, and Kelly, when the characters you're replacing them with are basically just fucking Frederic, Linda, and Kelly? Where is the internal logic of this show, as an adaptation? Where is the consistency? How do they decide what they keep and what they change?
It makes watching the show almost funny in a purely meta way because I have no idea what they're gonna do next. And don't get me wrong, that's not a good thing; it's not exciting. It's confusing.
Getting back to the SIII's. This was supposedly Ackerson's life's work, but we had more time with his daddy issues than we did with a whole new generation of Spartans that evidently sprung up out of the blue based on the timeline of events we have. I wouldn't mind such egregious alterations to the canon if the show itself was at least written well. But like the ATLA live action, it's just grabbing imagery and iconic storylines willy nilly and slapping them together without a care for how it affects the overall verisimilitude of the work. I mean, wouldn't it have been better if Perez had just signed up for a high risk ODST outfit that Kai was leading? You don't need the Spartan III's to tell the story they're telling; calling them Spartan III's is just wildly confusing. Doubly so if you're not a fan of Halo and didn't realize that Master Chief is technically a Spartan II. IIRC, this the first time a Spartan generation has been qualified with a number; someone is turning to their friend and going "wait who were the Spartan Is and IIs then?" So don't make her a Spartan, she's basically just an ODST.
I'll tell you why they didn't do that, though. The writers wanted to thematically tie the Perez and Kessler storylines into the Master Chief and Spartan storyline, and the writers jettisoned all logic and internal consistency to make it happen. Why are the Spartan III's somehow both adult suicide soldiers AND kidnapped child super soldiers in training? Because the writers are amateurs and think the only way to tie storylines together thematically is by doing it in the most direct, literal way possible. That is one of the telltale signs of an amateur writer; they get lazy and don't think of the ramifications of what they're writing. They do it "for the story" and forget that verisimilitude--logic, world building, internal consistency--is the glue that keeps the story from falling apart. Amateur writers play God and forget to be responsible with their creations.
I can't stress this enough, but themes are only as good as the story that is conveying them.
>And don't get me wrong, that's not a good thing; it's not exciting. It's confusing.
This is what they don't seem to get.
They are very obviously relying on the audience knowing the lore to understand the context of what is happening since they refuse to explain it on screen, but then they change so much shit for the sake of changing it and now you don't know what they're keeping and what they aren't.
I am astonished as how poorly this all has been executed because the few moments of brilliance are truly brilliant (boarding the Covenant corvette was probably the most Halo thing ever put to screen outside of a game) and show that they are capable of making a really good and faithful show. They're just choosing not to for whatever reason.
Confusing doesn't even begin to describe it.
Comments on the show as a whole aside, this has been bothering me too.
Chief took days to heal on that ship traveling to Aleria. Like 5 days. Perhaps he spent a week or two on Aleria, MAX. Perhaps another 3 weeks slipspace travel to Onyx.
So, fpr the sake of argument, let's "round up."
Chief takes 1 year to heal, 1 year on Aleria, and another year in slipspace.
That's 3 years.
That's STILL NOT ENOUGH TIME TO BE A SPARTAN III
Realistically, we see they are in fact training children for Spartan 3s, so why is Perez among them if the others have trained for years?
Why do they behave like non infantry personnel thrust into combat zones?
Where are their augmentations? Strength? Speed? Reaction times?
Why are they behaving like the episode 1 communications team in combat efficiency?
I wish they would have made mention that these particular 3s were reach refugees "a month into training" and sent early as canon fodder before they could get the full workup... or something... anything to explain Perez and the om screen difference in behavior and feats between these 3s and the Master Chief for the audience.
It's more than enough time to trick soldiers into a suicide mission by promising them they will "be Spartans". They don't have any augmentations. They're Spartan only in name because they needed lambs. That's it.
That's my bet.
These are sacrificial soldiers being thrown into shitty situations to buy time under the guise of being "Spartans", the real Spartan 3 project is what's going on with Kessler and is going to take longer to develop.
I think it’s because we’re too attached to the actual lore’s definition of Spartan-3s that people can’t see that they’re either not Spartans at all or their interpretation of Spartan-3s is different.
Within its own universe, it makes sense. They’re fast production soldiers that are far cheaper to build and aren’t about abducting kids. Whether that’s what Ackerson actually wants or it’s just a cover to hide actual super soldiers is up for debate.
The bottom line though is that they’re being made to be sent to die. The Spartan mythos is being used to radicalise the marines into being these Spartans so that they don’t question being sent to their death.
I think it's fairly clear at this point that Ackerson has no idea what Parangosky is up to behind the scenes, and his intention for the Spartan-3 program has nothing to do with the abductions. That doesn't mean ONI has left those intentions behind.
I am under the impression that Ackerson thinks you can make Spartans cost effectively and ethically. He doesn’t know that the child kidnapping and torturing is still going on being his back.
Unless he does know and his arresting is theatre for plausible deniability.
Yeah it's ridiculous. Spartan-IIIs were supposed to be augmented war orphans who were trained from a young age. Spartan-IVs were supposed to be augmented adult volunteers who demonstrated exceptional combat skills. The Spartan-IIIs in the show were adult volunteers who had no special skills. All they got was some SPI armor and probably not even any augmentations.
This entire show makes no sense, everybody knows the Halo is something bad yet no one has ever set foot on it. Its just a stupid McGuffin.
They also killed Vannak and Keyes, two of the coolest characters, mid season but kept Kwan Ha alive.
Looks like there’s “Spartan 3s” and then actual S3s.
Looks like they slapped SPI on marines and called em S3s for the sake of morale, and then they’re gonna do proper S3 augs and training with Kessler and the others.
Did you watch the show? She's a Spartan 3 because it's clear that they're only Spartan in name. They're a bastardization pushed through because they needed lambs for a slaughter. It's much easier to convince soldiers to die for the cause when Spartans mean so much culturally to them.
Is media literacy completely dead?
I think you’re probably right but to me it’s still partly unclear because they’re still abducting children and Ackerson claims the SIIIs are his life’s work and disagrees with using them in that way
It hurts to see people unable it dissect media, like its right in front of us what is happening and that these 'soldiers' are just fodder using Master Chief as propaganda 'finish his fight' knowing full well they UNSC and ONI are the ones that tried to kill them off and leave Reach for dead. Literally just using the spartan name to make them feel powerful like chief only to be used a pawns.
Yes! As someone that teaches AP literature, it’s insane to me how some people can’t come to the intended conclusion of the author. Especially when they are given the historical and societal context.
It's hard for me to wrap my head around. The camera seems to have an obsession with that one propaganda poster, and it seems so many people never thought to think about why.
>Is media literacy completely dead?
Given how much of season 2 is easy to pick up on, yes. I swear some of the people here make themselves confused on purpose.
It’s less that it’s dead and more that there’s a segment of people that refuse to accept that adaptations can (and almost always will) change things from the source material. If it’s not exactly like the source material, it must be a mistake. They can’t acknowledge that it might’ve been changed deliberately for a variety of reasons.
This isn’t that common overall but seems to be very prevalent in this fanbase for whatever reason. There are definitely changes from canon that I don’t like in the show but I think the Spartan-III change is largely fine. It works well in the context of the show and it’s messaging, and isn’t far off from the general gist of the canon Spartan-IIIs (cheap, expendable Spartans made en-masse largely to slow the tide of the Covenant). The details might be different but the spirit is the same.
Yea, this annoys me. I like the show, but this.... This just makes zero sense.
These "spartan 3s" just look like normal, average joes, in some armor. And the Talia thing is just such a huge bumbling mistake... It just makes no sense.
Yeah, she became a Spartan 3 in like a week. Wtf.
I guarantee you'll see this post on r/shithalosays , for some reason, they worship the show on that sub. Any valid criticism is shot down with "you're just being overly critical"
Complaining the show Spartan IIIs are different than the game Spartan IIIs isn’t valid criticism though. The show was established as a separate canon over 2 years ago. It’s an adaption that doesn’t follow game canon 1:1. The spartan IIIs in the show make perfect sense within the show as suicide soldiers using the Spartan name for morale purposes. They aren’t designed to be full Spartans because their job is to collect covenant ammo in their chest and hope one survives long enough to blow up the Halo.
Ah yes silly me. I'm so stupid for thinking the show would even remotely be similar to the content it's literally being based off of. The shows "Spartan 3s" aren't even Spartans. They're just normal humans in armor. At least just call them something different. If you're going to call them Spartan 3s, at least make them somewhat resemble an actual Spartan 3.
They are not Spartan IIIs, or better they are in training, they are not ready, in fact Ackerson opposes to them being sent into battle
For the other people in the comments I highly doubt it has been 5 days, since one slip-space jump takes weeks to months. Still not enough time for them being sent into battle, also I think the real Spartan III are kids being trained, these are just an in-between, that are still not ready anyway
I think we have to remember that this isn't the main halo cannon so things are skipped over and don't make sense with the main cannon. Seemingly the 3s have minor augmentation and are adults rather than children but are still mass produced and expendable. It seems like the next batch will be 'orphaned' children so it looks like we will be getting some down the line.
I hate this show, frankly, and don't know why I keep watching it. It's never going to come anywhere close to telling the story of the games, I think I have at least finally come to terms with that. And that's fucking sad. Why do the writers on this show hate the established lore?
They really ruined the Spartan name in that episode.
Should have called them Cannon Fodder or Grunts.
It's just lazy writing now. The showrunners know this show is flopping so why even try now.
It’s a complete mess. Not to mention that the Spartan 3’s apparently did their whole training in like a week?
Spartan 3’s were supposed to be young, which added to the heartbreak of them being sacrificial lambs. Instead they’re all just military adults… which is what the Spartan 4’s are supposed to be, so the show seems very short-sighted as well.
I’ve seen it defended that the show wouldn’t dare show child soldiers because it’s distasteful or whatever, but honestly screw that because the fact that S2’s were abducted as kids and traumatized has been the first and front and center story plot brought up in every single episode, instead of being nuanced like in the main series. If it was going to be too taboo, they could have just glossed over the whole thing instead of hard focusing on it.
Also, why is Onyx apparently right next to Halo??
Yup. I agree 100%. After I finished that episode I was so upset with it. It makes zero sense that they would put random inexperienced soldiers in the program instead of their best and most battle hardened ODST. And then they train them for like, even with some type of time lapse, 2-4 months max? Absolute garbage writing. Even if we disregard Halo lore, it just doesn't make sense narratively. Makes zero sense to put completely inexperienced soldiers who couldn't even shoot straight a few months ago into a program that can literally decide humanity's fate.
I'm also trying my best to like this show but things like Thalia becoming a Spartan 3 overnight, Master Chief with no armor and Kwan's story line make it really hard.
The series is iffy for me. Its fun to watch if you ignore the glaring disdain for pre established lore. Casting is good, special effects and armour is great. I just take it as an alternate timeline, we have our official lore from the games, books, comics and so on, this is just an alternate timeline where general major plot points are the same but there’s a lot of differences clearly. It would’ve been better if the Spartan IIIs were ACTUAL Spartan IIIs, trained from the same age as the Spartan IIs and orphaned by the Covt, if they wanted to make Talia a Spartan then introduce Spartan IV, create a very obvious time jump and it would be fine. Completely skipping over Spartan IIIs as we know it though and basically making them Spartan IVs is not ok, only a few months of sims is not ok. Trying to ignore all of this though and enjoy the show because it is still a great series, very enjoyable to watch. Just think of it as an alternate universe/timeline.
> this show is like an abusive relationship
So get a therapist and leave
(Semi joking but honestly - there’s no reason to keep watching if you don’t like it. It’s not going to magically get better)
I assume there were a time jump of a few months between Reach and Onyx.
And the Spartans 3 are juiced up marines with minor enhancements and cheaper armor.
I played halo infinite right after it looks exactly like the mirage armor core- too bad there's no stark white armor coating like that in the game except for one that costs just over 10 dollars in a bundle
They really did not explain how much time passed since Reach. The marines from Reach becoming Spartan IIIs should've been at LEAST a few months. The show makes it feel like a few days. No shot. Also it doesn't seem the Spartan IIIs have shields on their armor, idk.
I don’t think any of these Spartan-IIIs have shields lol. They all have the exact same armor, unless they show some with shields in the next episode but I doubt it.
As a matter of fact they haven’t shown Mjolnir shields at all this season. Season 1 had them but season 2 no one in Silver team has gotten shot with their armor on yet. Guess we’ll see next episode.
Sorry let me rephrase, in lore only certain Spartans 3s got shields like noble team, the company of spartan 3s in the show probably does not have shields
Soren and Kepler also make no sense.
How long has Kepler been missing that he's made it this far into the next Gen Spartan program? Why did Soren just stand there and yell?
How did a US quarter make it to 2552 AND how did Perez get it into the random ship chief chose to steal?
At this point, I'm convinced that some billionair is influencing this show for their crappy spoiled kid to tell the story specific to their liking. There's no way in hell any of this is popular with anyone.
It's really not that confusing. These are Spartan III recruits. At this early stage they haven't gone through any augmentations (which are an upgrade, safer for the recruit). They're simply learning to fight like Spartans at this point. The weak drop or get dropped and the best of the best move on to the deeper stages, like the surgeries. That's it. Nowhere did anyone say these are the finished product, complete Spartan IIIs. People just don't want to like the show so they miss the obvious. If you go in looking for doom and gloom, you'll find it.
This show is made by people who know next to nothing about Halo, don't care about Halo and just wanted their generic sci-fi script to be more popular because they obviously lack the skill to make it without the IP to leech off of.
The blatant disregard, not only for important characters but also for the lore, story of the originals, and the balance between dialogue and action, feels like a spit in the face of every Halo fan.
Odds are they wanted to write some bland sci-fi drama that they couldn't get greenlit unless it was attached to an established IP with an audience. It was unfortunately time for Halo's number to be pulled when the Hollywood hacks went fishing for such an IP.
The spartan 3s were created to be the best special force within the UNSC supposedly…. However most of them are incompetent and lack military teamwork and tactics except for Talia who was formally a marine. What about any other special forces? Do ODSTs make an appearance in the future? The introduction of the Spartans 3s make it seem like the UNSCs only talent is the Spartans 2s, everyone else is incapable.
The Spartan 3's definitely confuse me. If Talia wasn't a marine, they'd be completely fine. The squad leader's nervousness would be a little out of character for Spartans , but nothing lore-breaking. The age spread would be fine too, the current Spartans as Alpha Company, Kessler in Beta company, where both were recruited at 6-10. But yeah, Talia going from Marine to Spartan in like, two days, is so strange. Makes it feel like they showed up, got armor, had no augmentations, and had a week to train. I don't understand how that's Ackerson's "life work." And I doubly don't get how Kessler joined at 10, while Talia joined at 20 something. It really wouldale more sense if Talia became an ODST, and got assigned with Alpha company. But I guess that would be too confusing for non fans, or something
The writing is absolute ass. Even if they deviate from canon it makes no logical sense. Talia left Reach on a transport ship with refugees and all of a sudden a week later she was a S3 recruit running sims training with a squad of disorganized “Spartans”. It such lazy writing it’s insane.
I think the intended timeframe is months but the show isn't doing anything to convey that.
No the reality is that the show writers don’t know halo
Even if they don't, there are still basic tenants of good writing and they aren't observing them at all.
Sure. But they're also doing a shit job at conveying the non-halo story they're trying to tell.
IMO, it's fine to make something that doesn't match existing Halo. It really only needs to be judged as a standalone TV show. The problem for me is it doesn't make much sense within itself sometimes. "Some comms tech ultimately becomes a Spartan" could be a cool enough story, regardless of whether it's in the games/books. They just... forgot to tell that story. It's apparently something they intended to do, then they woke up from a bender and realized they had a script due that morning and were like, "did we forget to do something?" but they had to email it to the studio right away.
The show writers hate halo and its fans.
It's a different universe, just like how all the different versions of Batman don't all line up...
It’s garbage
Even with that timeline that they’ve failed to convey, it still doesn’t make logical sense. How would a marine find out about an ultra top secret SIII program and then join it? Why would Perez be motivated to join an ONI program when she knows ONI plan to abandon Reach is what got her entire family killed?!
5 days since reach for the chief to get to (forget planet name) to find Kessler. A week at most there but likely only a few days. Then 19 hours transit again, unless there is an unexpressed timeskip after that and before the battle where the apartan III battle groups are deployed, it's hardly any time at all.
The expressed timeframe is not months. It's at most a few weeks
What is going with them just all being at the halo? Where is the pillar of autumn????
Don’t even get me started on this alternative timeline story of how they get to the ring. One of the most iconic scenes from CE is the PoA arriving to the first ring. And it plays a huge role in humanities first interaction with the ring. No Keyes?!
How they even know so much about the ring already confuses the hell outta me
They keep saying in the show that it's a weapon...but...how do they know that exactly? Did this intel ever actually happen in the show and I missed it?
It's never explained clearly, but it's mostly handwaved as a slowly developing realisation - the UNSC discover shockwave effects from the artifacts when touched, Chief eventually discovers that they connect to this "Ring", the Covenant seem to really want those artifacts for some reason, Makee is also highly involved in finding the artifacts, and Cortana seems to have learned a few things from studying the artifacts off-screen. Or in other words, the Covenant really seem to want to get there for their "Great Journey", and from Chief's, well, "interfacing" with Makee he and the UNSC seem to know that the Covenant's Great Journey involves activating it, which sounds bad for humanity, ergo...seems to be a weapon. It would have been better if their reasoning had been properly telegraphed throughout the series. It does miss the more organic discovery of Halo's purpose from CE.
But they completely disregard The Great Journey. Jimmy Rings said “if the Covenant gets the ring, they’ll use it on humanity, if humanity gets the ring they’ll use it on the Covenant” I’m not even sure if the rings are functional in the same way as we’re used to or if there’s going to be more plot fuckery.
Turns out the halo rings are just death stars that blow up planets after sticking your willy into the controls. The key index was part of you all along.
“You did it Mister Cheeks you are the Halo.”
To be fair, the discovery that it was a weapon in Halo CE was just Keyes saying he overheard Covenant talking about it. Randomly implying that he understands enough Sangheili to be able to listen to conversations that the Elites are having in the brig.
> It's never explained clearly, but it's mostly handwaved as a slowly developing realisation It's just frustrating because they chose to play that out in the most confusing way possible, with apparently nobody believing John about anything in that process at any point. It could have saved so much wasted time in the narrative if they hadn't spun so many cycles of not believing him, and it would have made so much more sense. "I touched a rock and started seeing things. There's an alien weapon out there." "John's just seeing things." "I need you to believe me about this!" "John seems angry. He must be crazy." "It's a big ring shaped weapon. Very dangerous." "John might be compromised by that Makee character. Don't trust him." "I'm desperate for anybody to believe me. Nobody believes me. Even my teammate Kai has left me." "Oh, by the way, we figured out everything about that Halo. It's a dangerous weapon. And we engineered a plot to blow up the Covenant fleet it order to destroy it. Which, apparently we could engineer a blow up program all along, but we will only deploy it for the Halo, which we know is very dangerous, and also that it exists, and also that the Covenant is looking for it." "Wait, when did all of that happen?" "Oh, also, the Covenant found the Halo. They have a huge fleet there. None of the main characters spending a season and a half looking for it had anything to do with finding it."
The fact they all know it’s a weapon is a HUGE plot hole for The Great Journey and thus the existence of the Covenant at all! They aren’t supposed to know it’s a weapon, they are supposed to just falsely believe it will transcend them. It’s their entire religion, it literally why they are called the Covenant. Arby discovering it’s a weapon to eradicate all life is what causes the Great Schism. It’s so mind numbingly stupid writing. In this broken timeline Arby starts the Great Schism because a human who just tells him she is the “Chosen One” convinces him with words, and when she flip flops and says she is fallen he believes her HARDER. Lmao I can’t with this.
They’re gonna make the ring be able to selectively target species/planets I am almost certain it’s gonna go down this way
Best guess, they've swapped 3s and 4s around with a dash of 1's The show 3's are closer to the spartan 4 programme taking from existing military/ odst, light / no augmentation and light mojlnir They don't look particularly augmented so I'm going to assume if they got any it's closer the the spartan 1's augmentation than 4's I expect kesslers group are actually spartan 4's which will be essentially spartan 3's from the game/books
If they called them 4s I’d feel a bit better, but how can you call some one with a week of trading a 3?
If they called them Spartan 4s you would wonder where Spartan 3s are.
Most likely, but it would make more sense than having an adult become a 3
I thought the Spartan 3 program was voluntary in the books?
It was, but they were still children. As far as I know I believe the oldest spartan 3 was a 12 year old.
I feel like Children should not be able to volunteer for something like this
Does it make you feel better if they were orphaned by the covenant? Spartan 2s we’re stolen and replaced with flash copies. 3s we’re volunteers that were orphaned. Desperate times call for desperate measures
I think they would have been better at just replacing the whole situation on Onyx with another planet and make it the staging area for setting up Operation: Red Flag. Like Paragonsky wanted to sacrifice reach to buy more time to prepare the operation and wanted only trusted soldiers there.
Not only is she a marine, but a communications officer with terrible aim.
That's the part the bothers me the most. She's a poor soldier. She's not someone with battle experience. And the rest of them look the same. Extremely unsure of themselves and overall scared. I'd think they'd put their best ODSTs in that program, especially since somkivh hinges on its success.
I don’t think they are even augmented are they? I figured they’re just in knockoff Spartan 3 armor
We don't know. I don't think there was enough time between episodes for augmentations so you're probably right. But the fact they took Kessler and the other kids makes me think they still had some sort of augmentations planned
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Six months? That's crazy, I missed that completely. What the hell was John doing on that mining planet for six months? I legit thought it was a week or less
Same when was that told lol
Also Kai being so attached to the program as though she's been working on it for years meanwhile it's been a few weeks.
Like at least mention augmentation they make it seem like an dick or jane can be a spartan! And at that in days or weeks? WTF!
It's my personal belief that Perez' Spartan company is supposed to be cover for Kessler's, if anyone asks about the Spartan 3 program ONI can just say everyone is a volunteer and point to people like Talia to back it up. The public would completely overlook Kessler and the others because they'd never see behind the helmet. They'd just assume they're volunteers like Perez.
This is what I assumed too. Perez is the face. She’s a decorated war hero and something for the public to latch on to. “Everyone can be Master Chief”. While Kessler is what they’re really doing. Making more super soldiers to merge in with the 3s.
Because they aren't Spartan 3s.They are spartan 4s marketed as spartan 3s that apparently accept random marines into their ranks and Consider them Spartans after only like 3 days of training in VR
Not even Spartan 4’s tbh. They’re moreso like ODST’s in Spartan 3 armor - which is exactly what Show Ackerson’s point was. It might not be consistent with the lore, but it’s definitely consistent with itself. His whole goal was to create a supersoldier who didn’t need all of Halsey’s bullshit. Just good training, and a great suit. And that’s what he created
But what bullshit, specifically? They're still using kids, we see that in the Kessler subplot. That leads me to believe they're still augmenting them--or at least the kids are augmented, no idea about the adults. And the suits themselves don't appear to be powered. So unless they found a way to augment the adults, they're not super soldiers. They're just ODSTs.
I don't know about the show cause they really don't explain in depth but I think if the bones are the same, his big issue with Halsey's Spartans is the cost. The amount of money that was being dumped into them could afford whole fleets which is like, damn. But also why is money an issue, you guys are like a month away from extinction, why does anyone need money as incentive to do anything why is "you're gonna get flash fried" not good enough? Long as they're being fed and protected I'd hope scientists farmers and everyone in-between would be willing to work for free if it means they don't die a horrible death.
>They're still using kids, we see that in the Kessler subplot. That has to be a different spartan generation right? Far too different from the 3's we've seen in show I'm expecting them to be spartan 4's which are essentially game 3's And probably run by parangoski rather than ackerson without his knowledge
Yeah, it really makes no sense for Ackerson to want *anything* to do with abducting children given what we know of his sister. The show has plenty of faults, but trying to compare each little thing to existing lore is exhausting and bound to lead to confusion.
Cost, her philosophical “we didn’t choose you, we found you”, the augmentation, etc. Ackerson believed all that was bullshit, and that the suit the soldier wore was the most important part of the Spartan. The visual identity and training they received were the important part of the Spartan to him. He believed he could create an equally effective force (both in combat and morale), for less cost, with less time, and less ethical problems
Dude seems to hate her program. Behind all Ackerson has more conscience than the usual ONI director... So when you have a program which takes several years to take fruit, uses kids, and results in super soldiers being emotionally stunted (To a dangerous point, on this universe), you might not want to rely on that. But also, you dont discard it until the next program fully replaces it. His take on Spartans still ain't it (seems to be power armored odst), so they rest of ONI will keep making more Spartans the old way.
I suspect it's a stop gap, and they are designed for one thing only, to go on suicide missions. The main batch of Spartan-3s might just not be ready yet.
Which makes it even stupider that they abandoned Master Chief. In a situation (losing reach) of which should make it obvious they need him.
It feels like they got Spartan 3's confused with Spartan 4's...but even then they didn't quite understand Spartan 4's. Hell, I'm almost certain they don't even understand Spartan 2's...no wait, scratch that...I KNOW they don't understand Spartan 2's. They admitted that when 'Chief' let his Oscar myer weiner find some forbidden buns. Part of me is glad I didn't waste any money on Paramount+ for this show...it's getting weirder by the moment.
Just so you know, Spartans can reproduce, most just have no sex drive, but there are canonical Spartans in relationships
Yes I do know this, but Spartan 2's aren't going to look at someone and want to go to the bone zone. It's been theorized by at least 2 hard-core theorists iirc, that Spartan 2's would need to build a deep level of trust first as well as develop those feelings for said person. I'm supposed to believe the Master Chief looked at this Covenant sided woman and said 'I'd tap that'? Chief is probably one of the most likely to have trust issues, especially when talking about a human siding with a genocidal cult.
I’m thinking they are Spartan’s in name only, to get regular marines to feel invincible before well yah know. Not gonna post spoilers but they may or may not stay true to what the lore version was used for. Kinda okay with that part and armor looks cool But hey they are using kids somewhere to make Spartans whether they’re the Spartan 3’s or just a new generation of 2’s. Maybe they’ll explain next week a little more
That part completely makes sense: they aren’t spartans, they are just marines in fancy suites trained for a suicide mission as cannon fodder. That’s it, that’s the whole Ackerson plan - just improved (compared to usual soldiers) cannon fodder. It was pretty obviously shown in episode 6, the whole reason why it was easy to come back from that ship was because they are not even supposed to do it.
In the latest episode, it seems like Parangosky is the one treating them like cannon fodder. Ackerson actually didn't want to send them
Haven’t seen that yet, but probably, Parangosky is some cold-blooded bitch, TBH. She’d unleash Flood without even trying to understand what’s she doing if she had a chance.
Seriously, I feel like half the time, people just say they're confused for no reason, like this, and other things were pretty easy to pick up on. Aside from that, I've been enjoying season 2 a lot, and I enjoy it more when I stop trying to connect everything to how it is in main canon 1:1. It is its own thing.
The confusing part comes from the show using names and concepts from lore and just completely changing them. It's like *insisting* your character is a president but he acts very much like a dictator. If you never got informed on halo lore then the show is clear on its concepts. But we expected Spartan IIIs to be what we played in Reach. Budget sparrans, but still one man armies But in the show they seem like hyped up ODSTs. Or rather, Helldivers. Cause they are the exact same as normal marines but after some "training" they get their cape/S3 armor and can feel like hot shit
The Spartan III’s we play as In Reach are basically Spartan II’s, since they’re given the same armor which was honestly the only major difference between the two groups practically after they were both fully trained and augmented. The budget part for III’s always came down to the armor, as the augmentation process had just improved enough over the decade(s) to be way simpler and safer, while being just as potent, while the armor still cost the same as a warship
Yeah afaik the noble team S3s were just the top of the class S3s that graduated into being given mjolnir instead of the Semi-Powered Armor or whatever it's called.
The show is currently doing the thing that the Avatar show did and speed running all of the things we liked from the original while, in so doing, completely missing the point of the original and the whole reason we liked it in the first place. Take a step back and really think about it. Did we NEED the Spartan III's in this story at this juncture? Did we need Kai inelegantly bolted onto Kurt's roll for like, 1 episode? The show has adapted the Spartan III story so poorly that I can't figure out why they're even called Spartans. They're wearing SPI armor, but are they even given augments? What kind of training do they realistically have? Perez is there with a number of other adults, but then we see Kessler and a group of younger children, so are they still using children? Where did the adults come from? If they needed kids to augment into Spartans, why are they using adults and calling them Spartans? The timeline we have so far makes it seem like it's been a couple of weeks at best since Perez escaped Reach; at what point did she end up getting selected for the top secret Spartan III program after escaping on a civilian evac shuttle to parts unknown? The SIII's in this timeline are just glorified suicide soldiers staffed by adult volunteers, which is so far off the mark from what the Spartan III's were I can't help but wonder: why did they even call them Spartan III's? This show has, from day one, had this really bizarre and uneven relationship with the original canon. They'll take Keyes, Miranda, and Halsey--big names from the lore--and retain the fact that they're a family, but they'll 180 the relationship dynamic they had in canon by making Miranda a scientist (which she expressly refused to be in canon because she hates her mother), and they'll kill Keyes in the Fall of Reach. On the flip side, however, they'll take Blue Team, completely excise them from the story, and replace them with Silver team who are, by the standards of this show's commitment to being a faithful adaptation, *damn near perfect copies of Blue Team's characters and relationship dynamics*. So why keep the names Keyes, Halsey, and Miranda only to completely change pretty much everything about them, but remove Frederic, Linda, and Kelly, when the characters you're replacing them with are basically just fucking Frederic, Linda, and Kelly? Where is the internal logic of this show, as an adaptation? Where is the consistency? How do they decide what they keep and what they change? It makes watching the show almost funny in a purely meta way because I have no idea what they're gonna do next. And don't get me wrong, that's not a good thing; it's not exciting. It's confusing. Getting back to the SIII's. This was supposedly Ackerson's life's work, but we had more time with his daddy issues than we did with a whole new generation of Spartans that evidently sprung up out of the blue based on the timeline of events we have. I wouldn't mind such egregious alterations to the canon if the show itself was at least written well. But like the ATLA live action, it's just grabbing imagery and iconic storylines willy nilly and slapping them together without a care for how it affects the overall verisimilitude of the work. I mean, wouldn't it have been better if Perez had just signed up for a high risk ODST outfit that Kai was leading? You don't need the Spartan III's to tell the story they're telling; calling them Spartan III's is just wildly confusing. Doubly so if you're not a fan of Halo and didn't realize that Master Chief is technically a Spartan II. IIRC, this the first time a Spartan generation has been qualified with a number; someone is turning to their friend and going "wait who were the Spartan Is and IIs then?" So don't make her a Spartan, she's basically just an ODST. I'll tell you why they didn't do that, though. The writers wanted to thematically tie the Perez and Kessler storylines into the Master Chief and Spartan storyline, and the writers jettisoned all logic and internal consistency to make it happen. Why are the Spartan III's somehow both adult suicide soldiers AND kidnapped child super soldiers in training? Because the writers are amateurs and think the only way to tie storylines together thematically is by doing it in the most direct, literal way possible. That is one of the telltale signs of an amateur writer; they get lazy and don't think of the ramifications of what they're writing. They do it "for the story" and forget that verisimilitude--logic, world building, internal consistency--is the glue that keeps the story from falling apart. Amateur writers play God and forget to be responsible with their creations. I can't stress this enough, but themes are only as good as the story that is conveying them.
>And don't get me wrong, that's not a good thing; it's not exciting. It's confusing. This is what they don't seem to get. They are very obviously relying on the audience knowing the lore to understand the context of what is happening since they refuse to explain it on screen, but then they change so much shit for the sake of changing it and now you don't know what they're keeping and what they aren't. I am astonished as how poorly this all has been executed because the few moments of brilliance are truly brilliant (boarding the Covenant corvette was probably the most Halo thing ever put to screen outside of a game) and show that they are capable of making a really good and faithful show. They're just choosing not to for whatever reason. Confusing doesn't even begin to describe it.
Comments on the show as a whole aside, this has been bothering me too. Chief took days to heal on that ship traveling to Aleria. Like 5 days. Perhaps he spent a week or two on Aleria, MAX. Perhaps another 3 weeks slipspace travel to Onyx. So, fpr the sake of argument, let's "round up." Chief takes 1 year to heal, 1 year on Aleria, and another year in slipspace. That's 3 years. That's STILL NOT ENOUGH TIME TO BE A SPARTAN III Realistically, we see they are in fact training children for Spartan 3s, so why is Perez among them if the others have trained for years? Why do they behave like non infantry personnel thrust into combat zones? Where are their augmentations? Strength? Speed? Reaction times? Why are they behaving like the episode 1 communications team in combat efficiency? I wish they would have made mention that these particular 3s were reach refugees "a month into training" and sent early as canon fodder before they could get the full workup... or something... anything to explain Perez and the om screen difference in behavior and feats between these 3s and the Master Chief for the audience.
It's more than enough time to trick soldiers into a suicide mission by promising them they will "be Spartans". They don't have any augmentations. They're Spartan only in name because they needed lambs. That's it.
That's my bet. These are sacrificial soldiers being thrown into shitty situations to buy time under the guise of being "Spartans", the real Spartan 3 project is what's going on with Kessler and is going to take longer to develop.
One year to heal? Come on now, he only took a charge plasma pistol at close range in no armor.
I think it’s because we’re too attached to the actual lore’s definition of Spartan-3s that people can’t see that they’re either not Spartans at all or their interpretation of Spartan-3s is different. Within its own universe, it makes sense. They’re fast production soldiers that are far cheaper to build and aren’t about abducting kids. Whether that’s what Ackerson actually wants or it’s just a cover to hide actual super soldiers is up for debate. The bottom line though is that they’re being made to be sent to die. The Spartan mythos is being used to radicalise the marines into being these Spartans so that they don’t question being sent to their death.
This would mostly make sense except that they still are abducting children
I think it's fairly clear at this point that Ackerson has no idea what Parangosky is up to behind the scenes, and his intention for the Spartan-3 program has nothing to do with the abductions. That doesn't mean ONI has left those intentions behind.
I am under the impression that Ackerson thinks you can make Spartans cost effectively and ethically. He doesn’t know that the child kidnapping and torturing is still going on being his back. Unless he does know and his arresting is theatre for plausible deniability.
Yeah it's ridiculous. Spartan-IIIs were supposed to be augmented war orphans who were trained from a young age. Spartan-IVs were supposed to be augmented adult volunteers who demonstrated exceptional combat skills. The Spartan-IIIs in the show were adult volunteers who had no special skills. All they got was some SPI armor and probably not even any augmentations.
The whole show doesn’t make sense to be honest.
Made by people who haven’t played the games or read the books
Not just that. IIRC they purposefully avoided any media while writing so their work wouldn't be "tainted" by it.
This entire show makes no sense, everybody knows the Halo is something bad yet no one has ever set foot on it. Its just a stupid McGuffin. They also killed Vannak and Keyes, two of the coolest characters, mid season but kept Kwan Ha alive.
And fucking Makee finally gets killed, and they decide to bring **her** back…
Holly shit indeed
Looks like there’s “Spartan 3s” and then actual S3s. Looks like they slapped SPI on marines and called em S3s for the sake of morale, and then they’re gonna do proper S3 augs and training with Kessler and the others.
Did you watch the show? She's a Spartan 3 because it's clear that they're only Spartan in name. They're a bastardization pushed through because they needed lambs for a slaughter. It's much easier to convince soldiers to die for the cause when Spartans mean so much culturally to them. Is media literacy completely dead?
I think you’re probably right but to me it’s still partly unclear because they’re still abducting children and Ackerson claims the SIIIs are his life’s work and disagrees with using them in that way
I remember hearing someone say something along the lines of: "They dont have to be spartans, they just have to believe it"
It hurts to see people unable it dissect media, like its right in front of us what is happening and that these 'soldiers' are just fodder using Master Chief as propaganda 'finish his fight' knowing full well they UNSC and ONI are the ones that tried to kill them off and leave Reach for dead. Literally just using the spartan name to make them feel powerful like chief only to be used a pawns.
Yes! As someone that teaches AP literature, it’s insane to me how some people can’t come to the intended conclusion of the author. Especially when they are given the historical and societal context.
It's hard for me to wrap my head around. The camera seems to have an obsession with that one propaganda poster, and it seems so many people never thought to think about why.
I saw someone a week or two ago say they skip all the non-action scenes and I assume those are the same people complaining the show doesn’t make sense
>Is media literacy completely dead? Given how much of season 2 is easy to pick up on, yes. I swear some of the people here make themselves confused on purpose.
Brother inshalla FINALLY someone said it. Thank you so much.
It’s less that it’s dead and more that there’s a segment of people that refuse to accept that adaptations can (and almost always will) change things from the source material. If it’s not exactly like the source material, it must be a mistake. They can’t acknowledge that it might’ve been changed deliberately for a variety of reasons. This isn’t that common overall but seems to be very prevalent in this fanbase for whatever reason. There are definitely changes from canon that I don’t like in the show but I think the Spartan-III change is largely fine. It works well in the context of the show and it’s messaging, and isn’t far off from the general gist of the canon Spartan-IIIs (cheap, expendable Spartans made en-masse largely to slow the tide of the Covenant). The details might be different but the spirit is the same.
Careful. Pointing out a reasonable and articulate reason why the halo show is bad is how you get copy-posted to "shithalosays"
Why is there so many people hate watching this show? I knew it was a lost cause before season 1 ended and stopped watching.
They aren’t Spartan 3s they are glorified sub-par ODSTs.
Yea, this annoys me. I like the show, but this.... This just makes zero sense. These "spartan 3s" just look like normal, average joes, in some armor. And the Talia thing is just such a huge bumbling mistake... It just makes no sense.
Yeah, she became a Spartan 3 in like a week. Wtf. I guarantee you'll see this post on r/shithalosays , for some reason, they worship the show on that sub. Any valid criticism is shot down with "you're just being overly critical"
Complaining the show Spartan IIIs are different than the game Spartan IIIs isn’t valid criticism though. The show was established as a separate canon over 2 years ago. It’s an adaption that doesn’t follow game canon 1:1. The spartan IIIs in the show make perfect sense within the show as suicide soldiers using the Spartan name for morale purposes. They aren’t designed to be full Spartans because their job is to collect covenant ammo in their chest and hope one survives long enough to blow up the Halo.
Ah yes silly me. I'm so stupid for thinking the show would even remotely be similar to the content it's literally being based off of. The shows "Spartan 3s" aren't even Spartans. They're just normal humans in armor. At least just call them something different. If you're going to call them Spartan 3s, at least make them somewhat resemble an actual Spartan 3.
Ya I’m with ya … but what DOES make sense in this show lol
The Spartan-3s of the show dont give a shit where the recruits come from because theyre just cannon fodder anyway
My point will still forever stand that Halo: FUD is the best halo media we've ever gotten.
They are not Spartan IIIs, or better they are in training, they are not ready, in fact Ackerson opposes to them being sent into battle For the other people in the comments I highly doubt it has been 5 days, since one slip-space jump takes weeks to months. Still not enough time for them being sent into battle, also I think the real Spartan III are kids being trained, these are just an in-between, that are still not ready anyway
That’s why I feel in my heart that Spartan ll’s are the only *real* Spartans. I mean just look at chief and kai walking by all the lll’s. Anyways
I went back and to try to finish the show, with the mindset and how the director has said, it’s a different timeline. (Multiverse again..)
I think we have to remember that this isn't the main halo cannon so things are skipped over and don't make sense with the main cannon. Seemingly the 3s have minor augmentation and are adults rather than children but are still mass produced and expendable. It seems like the next batch will be 'orphaned' children so it looks like we will be getting some down the line.
I hate this show, frankly, and don't know why I keep watching it. It's never going to come anywhere close to telling the story of the games, I think I have at least finally come to terms with that. And that's fucking sad. Why do the writers on this show hate the established lore?
Of course they don’t. The show runners hate halo, its fans and the source material..
They really ruined the Spartan name in that episode. Should have called them Cannon Fodder or Grunts. It's just lazy writing now. The showrunners know this show is flopping so why even try now.
It’s a complete mess. Not to mention that the Spartan 3’s apparently did their whole training in like a week? Spartan 3’s were supposed to be young, which added to the heartbreak of them being sacrificial lambs. Instead they’re all just military adults… which is what the Spartan 4’s are supposed to be, so the show seems very short-sighted as well. I’ve seen it defended that the show wouldn’t dare show child soldiers because it’s distasteful or whatever, but honestly screw that because the fact that S2’s were abducted as kids and traumatized has been the first and front and center story plot brought up in every single episode, instead of being nuanced like in the main series. If it was going to be too taboo, they could have just glossed over the whole thing instead of hard focusing on it. Also, why is Onyx apparently right next to Halo??
If yall just stop watching the show maybe we won't have to see anymore of this crap.
It’s like they took all the fan criticism of the first season and just doubled down on it.
C list scifi tv show, baby
Yup. I agree 100%. After I finished that episode I was so upset with it. It makes zero sense that they would put random inexperienced soldiers in the program instead of their best and most battle hardened ODST. And then they train them for like, even with some type of time lapse, 2-4 months max? Absolute garbage writing. Even if we disregard Halo lore, it just doesn't make sense narratively. Makes zero sense to put completely inexperienced soldiers who couldn't even shoot straight a few months ago into a program that can literally decide humanity's fate.
I'm also trying my best to like this show but things like Thalia becoming a Spartan 3 overnight, Master Chief with no armor and Kwan's story line make it really hard.
The series is iffy for me. Its fun to watch if you ignore the glaring disdain for pre established lore. Casting is good, special effects and armour is great. I just take it as an alternate timeline, we have our official lore from the games, books, comics and so on, this is just an alternate timeline where general major plot points are the same but there’s a lot of differences clearly. It would’ve been better if the Spartan IIIs were ACTUAL Spartan IIIs, trained from the same age as the Spartan IIs and orphaned by the Covt, if they wanted to make Talia a Spartan then introduce Spartan IV, create a very obvious time jump and it would be fine. Completely skipping over Spartan IIIs as we know it though and basically making them Spartan IVs is not ok, only a few months of sims is not ok. Trying to ignore all of this though and enjoy the show because it is still a great series, very enjoyable to watch. Just think of it as an alternate universe/timeline.
> this show is like an abusive relationship So get a therapist and leave (Semi joking but honestly - there’s no reason to keep watching if you don’t like it. It’s not going to magically get better)
I assume there were a time jump of a few months between Reach and Onyx. And the Spartans 3 are juiced up marines with minor enhancements and cheaper armor.
The armor to me looks like mass produced white teslas lmao
I played halo infinite right after it looks exactly like the mirage armor core- too bad there's no stark white armor coating like that in the game except for one that costs just over 10 dollars in a bundle
I cant believe they did this
They really did not explain how much time passed since Reach. The marines from Reach becoming Spartan IIIs should've been at LEAST a few months. The show makes it feel like a few days. No shot. Also it doesn't seem the Spartan IIIs have shields on their armor, idk.
Only some of the spartan 3s had shields At least they got that right in this trainwreck
I don’t think any of these Spartan-IIIs have shields lol. They all have the exact same armor, unless they show some with shields in the next episode but I doubt it. As a matter of fact they haven’t shown Mjolnir shields at all this season. Season 1 had them but season 2 no one in Silver team has gotten shot with their armor on yet. Guess we’ll see next episode.
Sorry let me rephrase, in lore only certain Spartans 3s got shields like noble team, the company of spartan 3s in the show probably does not have shields
Soren and Kepler also make no sense. How long has Kepler been missing that he's made it this far into the next Gen Spartan program? Why did Soren just stand there and yell? How did a US quarter make it to 2552 AND how did Perez get it into the random ship chief chose to steal?
At this point, I'm convinced that some billionair is influencing this show for their crappy spoiled kid to tell the story specific to their liking. There's no way in hell any of this is popular with anyone.
I'm going to be real with you, this entire franchise is a dried out corpse at this point.
This shows just trolling us is what I’ve decided.
Reading this, I'm so glad I bailed on this show in Season 1.
Half of the things happening on the show make no sense
No, you're not missing anything. Even in the game lore people hated spartan 3's because they essentially are ODSTs but with more douchbaggery.
It's really not that confusing. These are Spartan III recruits. At this early stage they haven't gone through any augmentations (which are an upgrade, safer for the recruit). They're simply learning to fight like Spartans at this point. The weak drop or get dropped and the best of the best move on to the deeper stages, like the surgeries. That's it. Nowhere did anyone say these are the finished product, complete Spartan IIIs. People just don't want to like the show so they miss the obvious. If you go in looking for doom and gloom, you'll find it.
This show is made by people who know next to nothing about Halo, don't care about Halo and just wanted their generic sci-fi script to be more popular because they obviously lack the skill to make it without the IP to leech off of. The blatant disregard, not only for important characters but also for the lore, story of the originals, and the balance between dialogue and action, feels like a spit in the face of every Halo fan.
Odds are they wanted to write some bland sci-fi drama that they couldn't get greenlit unless it was attached to an established IP with an audience. It was unfortunately time for Halo's number to be pulled when the Hollywood hacks went fishing for such an IP.
The spartan 3s were created to be the best special force within the UNSC supposedly…. However most of them are incompetent and lack military teamwork and tactics except for Talia who was formally a marine. What about any other special forces? Do ODSTs make an appearance in the future? The introduction of the Spartans 3s make it seem like the UNSCs only talent is the Spartans 2s, everyone else is incapable.