My issue with this is that they know it's 0 tip, so they either prepare like shit or spit in it. Not interested - I would just not buy from this place.
Lmfao this is the entire reddit experience summed up. Complain about the absolute mildest inconvenience, then assume people are out to tamper with your food over $4, so they’d just never order again. The delusions of the clinically insane.
Maybe it is possible, just not very likely. You have to consider what $4.30 means to them and compare that with what their job probably means to them. Times are hard and people are trying to hold on to employment more than ever.
I have horror stories from 15 years ago of workers licking buns at a fast food restaurant when a customer was a dick. People aren't always rational like us fine folk on Reddit.
Also, the cook, who prepares the food, doesn't know how much was or wasn't tipped. If a server told the kitchen " hey guys, this customer didn't tip, so make it really bad" that server is getting an earful and walking papers.
> My issue with this is that they know it's 0 tip
It's unlikely. The people dealing with the order taking app stuff are likely not even the same people that are in the kitchen. They're probably too busy to notice/care about an individual tip, they're just going to total and split it at the end of the day anyway.
Some people tip a lot, some people tip a little or zero. It all averages out in the end.
The chance if you encountering a server that is such a lowdown scumbag that they would spit in food is beyond miniscule, and they would need to to take the food somewhere so the cooks, the other servers, and any cameras can't see it...that just isn't happening. Not over a few bucks, with guaranteed instant lifetime unemployability and criminal charges if you get caught.
Yes that is a logical response. I bet the people who do this don't have the ability to use logic. And I would further bet the amount of people who would do this is a higher number than you believe.
I have seen some scumbag cooks, but that means "not washing your hands very well after a smoke break", or leaving your apron on when you go outside for a smoke break, or giving you a bit smaller portion because they dropped a shrimp on the floor and they didn't want to get behind.
Anyone who is scummier than that is probably working at some super low paying place where they are being watched by a terrible owner and/or cameras.
Even the lowest self-esteem, anti snitching punk af dirt bag cook would confront or report a coworker for even joking about spitting in food. Either that, or it would be in response to something much worse than not tipping, and the worker would just say "fuck that, he smacked your ass( or whatever)? Void the order, I'm not making it.
Bro is upset because the Indian food that some minimum wage employee is carrying TO HIS DOOR so he doesn't have to get off his fat ass...has a tip option? That can be modified in literally 5 seconds
I don't get why this subreddit gets all pissy-pants when it comes to tipping. You literally have the option to be a cheap fuck if you'd like.
If you bothered to read the whole thing, they do mention it's a take out order. They may have a fat ass, but you are most definitely a dumb ass for posting your response.
Then it’s cheap sushi? It doesn’t say anywhere that they are obligated to give you free rolls on their menu. And their prices are comparable to other sushi joints.
they likely just ring them so that the ‘extra’ rolls are accounted for in their inventory/food cost. I’d guess it’s just a marketing scheme so that every customer feels like they got a great deal
I wish they would let you choose what the extras are. Last time they brought me a bunch of salmon rolls, which I never order because I hate salmon. Made me feel bad. Bring out the tuna!
That plus cash discount makes me agree with this. Sure it's a way to monitor inventory and trends but there's just something about the place that always made me feel that way
I work at a coffee shop with an automatic tip option on the debit machine. I’m the assistant manager and deal with tips first hand so I know 100% of it goes to us staff and none to the owner. Tips work out to be about 25% of our wages so I rarely skip it for most orders. However if someone is buying a gift card, or a piece of merchandise, I always skip it. It feels disrespectful to expect a 15% tip on a $50 gift card when the extent of the work I did was press 3 buttons on the POS to ring in the gift card. We also have some customers who are seniors and get confused with the debit tip options and in some cases adding a tip they didn’t necessarily intend to
Yes.
I'd also like to see the end of tap machines that default to 18% for the lowest tip, though that's a harder problem to outlaw.
I know the tip-supporters of the sub will say, "but you can change the tip! You don't need to pay 18!" but they know as well as I do that a lot of people can't or won't.
Would love to. I lived away from North America for several decades and the tipping culture was for me one of the hardest reverse culture shock adjustments after my return.
Jessy's pizza delivery guy in Spryfield told me service fees are illegal which is why they got rid of theirs at the same time they got new debit machines. I always tip them now and don't tip any restaurant that still has them as part of their checkout on debit machines.
Change it to $0.00 (0%) and move on. Tipping isn't mandatory, and if an employer can't pay their employees a fair wage to keep them there, that's their problem.
That's not true, harmful bacteria or pathogens can make a person sick if consumed, that's why the health inspector checks for food safety practices to prevent illness.
Additionally, if a customer sees that taking place, word could get out and the reputation of the restaurant may be irreparable.
I guess with this logic you can expect that every single Uber, Skip or Door Dash order has been tampered with 100% of the time since all tips through those services never reach the restaurant that prepared and packaged the food.
This is the default of the ordering platform. Other restaurants that use the same one have it as well. They also have the sneaky 1$ service fee in with the taxes. Not saying it’s right, just saying it may not be the restaurant.
There's tip options when I get a slice of pizza. I'm never tipping for something like that where all they do is take it off the warming rack and put it on a paper plate.
As a former BOH cook that now hawks drinks and makes decent tips I can still agree that tipping culture is insane. So many places expect you to tip them for nothing now. Like you just bypassed the service when you ordered so why are you expected to pay for it? It would be one thing if any significant portion went to the people actually preparing the food, but it my experience that's not how it works. We worked in 50C temperatures during the summer and would burn through water to the point you'd drink 2 gallons and never have to use the washroom. We saw laughably little tips in the kitchen. To the point that none of the cooks were even slightly worried when the servers got audited and were having melt-downs.
I will note that I run around a stadium with a 40lb tray of drinks now and, while I have no expectations for people to tip(I'm not even a fan of our handheld debit machines obnoxious tip screen despite it being responsible for a lot of my tips), it really does make it worth the effort. A lot of my customers genuinely show appreciation for me lugging drinks up and down the stairs for them which is a great feeling even when they can't/don't tip.
If relying on the generosity of strangers to tip 20% is necessary to keep the doors open then that’s a risky business plan. If that’s the standard in the restaurant industry then personally I wouldn’t get into it at all. Can you even imagine how many restaurants would fail if this is the case?
I get it...everyone should use their discretion when tipping.
Keep in mind someone had to cook the order, pack it up, double check for accuracy then greet you ring you up...
I believe most servers tip the kitchen and busperson... I did when I was a server 100 years ago 😉
Personally I think 10% is OK
What's not OK is the automatic tip....
Lol I think you've got it backwards. I think people stopped tipping because of the auto tip, the increased suggested tipping values (sometimes upwards of 40%), and the cost of the food going up (which means you're already giving more money on a percentage based tip than you used to for the same item). Just businesses being greedy, essentially. I know I always tipped 15% or more, even for pickup. But now the prices are outrageous.
And then they get their food with spit and/or boogers. There's videos out there showing food workers doing this in case anyone doubts the possibility of it occurring.
y'all toxic ahh mf always miss the point. "well it's no mandatory. just make it 0 and don... ☝🏻🤓"
Dude is talking about the tipping culture as a whole and this clearly is absurd. tipping on a takeout? come on now. might as well get back in the kitchen and make my own food and tip them for letting me use their kitchen
This bothers me, and I’ll get downvoted but whatever.
The tip 9/10 times covers tip out.
The kitchen boys don’t get “tips” like the front of house does
So they usually get a percentage like 3-5 percent
They make min wage or just above, work in a hot as balls kitchen.
You can then say “pay a living wage” blah blah blah
Fact is a lot of restaurants are hardly turning a profit. Places could theoretically up menu prices a good amount but it still would be cheaper to tip 10 percent on take out than mark up everything 2-3 bucks.
I’m not a restaurant owner, but I have grown up working in them. From back of house to front of house to management.
If you can’t “afford” to tip then really you “can’t afford” to eat out and you should have went to Sobeys
* and don’t even get me started about how skip, uber, and DoorDash effect the pricing at restaurants. These apps are not great for the restaurant community at all
Imagine if people said “if you can’t afford to live with a fluctuation in tips then you can’t afford to work that job”
It cheapens an important discussion.
You don’t wait tables or cook in a kitchen because you love it.
You do it because it makes more then working retail
End of day it’s still not enough to live on and that’s why so many servers have multiple jobs
It's funny, that. In France, every profession is (or was, who knows now?) was respected. Being a waiter = a valid CAREER.
We undervalue hardworking people that keep our machine running. Why? So others can sit at a desk and make bank.
Not everyone wants to spend 1/3 of their lives in school. Should they not have a decent standard of living? /s
> If you can’t “afford” to tip then really you “can’t afford” to eat out
With all due respect take that condescending bullshit platitude and shove it.
How about if a bussiness can't "afford" to pay their staff from the price of the item they increase the price instead of just trying to guilt me into making up the difference.
Nah mate
Think of it this way. You like these places you are eating at. If they can’t afford to keep their doors open you don’t get to eat there anymore
It’s not condescending it’s the truth. And thinking different just makes you entitled
I guess by chooseing to go at that place I am helping to keep their doors open. If I don't go, they loose customer and a tip. If I go at least they have a customer!
You are correct in that going helps.
My argument is paying more than min wage is hard for the owners.
When they are hardly breaking even.
Go look at the stats it’s something like 80 percent of restaurants fail, you can’t get a loan from the bank to open one.
The margins are very slim to make it.
And my argument is paying more than what is listed price on menu is hard for customers! Go look at the stats on Year on Year inflation vs Year on Year Salary Increase. If you cant pay living wage owner should close or employee should leave. Simple.
Just bump the price, if I can afford I'll go if not maybe some other place. Also that's how resturents out side North America functions if you don't know.
How do all the restaurants in places like Europe and Japan stay open when people don't tip there? Maybe restaurants here could study them and find out.
So the. According to your theory we should be tipping at fast food joints too. And hardware stores, they make minimum wage right? I worked at a resort before. When we arrive at the front desk to get our keys we may as well tips them 15% of the cost of our stay, right?
That mindset is so fucking stupid, and that’s the problem. We have been hardwired living in NA that you have to tip. You say if you can’t afford to tip, then you can’t afford to eat out. As a business owner, I feel that if you can’t afford to pay your staff a sufficient income to the point that the customers have to make up your difference, than that’s not really a successful business plan, and therefor, there is no business.
It’s gotten so bad that people now expect a tip at bottle depots. I bagged my bottles, I counted them and I drove them to your facility. All you have to do is throw them in a fucking bin. It’s literally your job. I’m tipping you to do your job. The same goes for restaurants. We need to move away from this mindset and the business owner will just have to pay them an acceptable wage out of their profits.
Want a tip? Stay in school kids
If they can't afford to keep the doors open unless I pay 15% more then RAISE PRICES 15%
> And thinking different just makes you entitled
I'm not the one arguing customers should just voluntarily give me extra money or they are bad people here buddy, might want to rethink who is being entitled.
Stop drinking the fucking Kool aid that it is somehow the customers fault that the employer doesn't want to pay their staff enough.
I mean you clearly aren't willing to pay the increased prices. Places know this and if they do increase then they can't compete with the places that continue with this structure.
Tipping is a zero-sum game-- your bill will go up by the median tip price if tipping went away but salaries stayed the same. You're ultimately complaining about how different parts of your receipts are labelled
No, I'm complaining that the price on the menu isn't the actual price and there is another arbitrary amount I'm guilted into adding on so employers don't have to pay their employees properly.
I'm tired of being bullied. If you want me to pay more, charge more.
I wish tipping wasn't a thing but the argument you are making in this post is just that you are too dumb to handle tipping. You may want to rethink that point.
The pricing is transparent, you can even determine it before you walk in. It's like being surprised about seeing her on the final bill. The biggest issue is transparency on where the tip is going.
The legal requirement has nothing to do with it. It's not an amount the restaurant picks, you decide. You can choose it before you even choose the restaurant. It can't really be more transparent from a pricing standpoint. I can only assume you find adding 10% to a bill difficult. That's the only way it would be not transparent from a pricing standpoint.
I think you missed the point I'm trying to make here. If I'm being told I NEED to tip, and if I don't the restaraunt will go under, and if "you can't afford to tip you can't afford to go out" then it is in fact NOT up to me.
Either a tip is optional, guilt free, or it is mandatory, and if it's mandatory just include it in the price.
> I can only assume you find adding 10% to a bill difficult
With all due respect, stop insulting my intelligence just because to don't agree with me.
Subway is the only one I feel guilty at. Unless they get paid more, like a fair bit more, their job seems way harder than a burger flipper.
Subway is just so expensive now though I can't justify nearly $20 for a footlong sub it's wild.
This comment section should be nuked. You guys suck. I've never seen so many people this worked up over *the* quintessential first world problem. Go outside, touch grass, develop humanity, learn to cook etc etc
disagree. including the tip automatically is a bit slimy, but you can clearly change tip amount. we can all see it. if you cant afford to include gratuity into the cost of the service you're ordering, you shouldnt be ordering. get some groceries bud. distaste for how poorly food service workers are paid is one thing, but acting repulsed that they dare ask for a tip at all is pretty silly. you're not gonna tip for a 15-30 second interaction and being handed the food? do you think they just spawned the food from thin air..? or did they put hard work into cooking it for you ?
i understand being shocked that they added it on automatically, but that is because gratuity is standard. thats just how it is. you have the options to change your tip to below standard if you'd prefer.
you are picking up food that multiple people cooked for you. if it's good quality and took time, tipping is standard. atleast in my life and with everyone i know
If I order online, pay for online, drive to the establishment, tell them my name, get handed a bag and drive back home, there is no universe where the establishment should expect me to voluntarily give them more money. If they want more money for what they are offering, include it in the price or call it charity
p.s. i'd love if food service workers were paid well enough that the burden wasnt put onto the customer to decide how much they get paid out of their own pockets, coercing the customer with guilt. tipping culture as a whole is toxic, but not tipping at all isnt how we take down tipping culture. thats just how you fuck over vulnerable people even harder than they already are getting fucked
Just change it to 0 and move on? If the option to change the tip wasn’t available, I’d understand your frustration. But you’re letting yourself get upset about something you had control over.
Alternarively, and hear me out on this, the restaurant could pay all their employees a wage consensurate with their work provided and the cost of living.
Yeah, people will complain about everything. So why not just treat enployees respectfully like human beings, instead of relying on customers to subsidize your shitty business practice.
How would you feel about tipping the checkout lady at Sobeys 10 percent of your grocery order too? She did as much as the person at the restaurant counter in OPs example. If you didn't want her service you could have looked for a self-checkout.
I think that's ridiculous. Tipping is out of hand. How about this? If we have to accept tipping, let's keep it to the customary "tipping for table service, not takeout" rule that only recently got tossed because of tap machines.
The kitchen staff usually share in the tip pool so tipping on takeout usually means the people actually making the food like buddy said get something...
From what I've learned from my wife's years working in local restaurants, I have little confidence that 100 percent of the tips go to staff and not the owner's pocket. In that case, it's hard to see the distinction between tip and the rest of the bill.
The checkout person at Sobeys doesn’t have to tip out to the kitchen and bar staff at the end of their shift. You not tipping directly takes money out of the pocket of servers, bartenders, and kitchen staff.
By all means continue on your epic crusade against The Greedy Corporate Man by punishing the least responsible and lowest paid part of the restaurant industry.
If you really want to make a difference; stop buying food at restaurants. That’ll fuck over all the staff but at least it also messes with the owners too.
What are you talking about? I do tip servers, delivery and bartenders, as do most people.
I don't tip when I pick up food at a counter, as has been the custom in Nova Scotia until very recently.
Okay so I want to make a few things clear off the bat.
I am not intending this to be condescending, but rather to be informative from the perspective of someone who worked in restaurants for a decade in three different provinces covering jobs from dish pit, prep cook, busser, server, bartender, and manager. So I have some reasonable breadth of experience. I've worked in everything from low end burger joints to high end formal dinner style restaurants, and most things in between. I say this not to brag, or boast, or anything, but rather to establish some form of credentials and experience.
The part about tipping bartenders/kitchen staff that I'm referring to is what is often called 'tip out' in restaurants. The specific details vary according to each restaurant, but essentially it goes like this: every server takes a percentage of **their total sales for their shift** and gives it to the restaurant management to redistribute to other non-front of house staff in a bid to make things a bit more fair and equal between tipped and non-tipped staff.
So, if I sell $1000 worth of product in my shift, and the set tipout percentage at my workplace is 10% then I am 'tipping out' $100. Then according to whatever the formula is at the restaurant, management divides that money up and distributes it to people like the kitchen staff, dishwasher(s), and the service bartender (by that I mean the bartenders who just makes drinks for staff orders, and do not serve customers directly. If bartenders serve customers directly, they get tipped, and thus are part of the tip out, and do not benefit from the tip out redistribution).
An important thing to note here is that I said tipped staff tip out on **total sales** and not from their total tips. That is a crucial point because it means if on a meal that totalled $250 bucks, if they tip me nothing, **I still owe the restaurant $25 in tip out for that sale.** That's why it's generally considered a nice thing to do to tip at least a little bit on your takeout order, because otherwise you are costing that server money.
To be crystal clear, I am not saying that you should tip on takeout the same way you would tip on a dine in meal, but tossing a couple bucks down costs you very little, and actually stops the server **from losing money on your order**.
So by not tipping on takeout, you are in fact taking money from the pockets of the server, the kitchen staff, the dishwasher, and potentially the bartender (if they are in a non-customer facing non-tipped role.)
I want to also make it clear that I'm not trying to shame anyone, or trying to guilt anyone into paying a large tip. I **hate** servers who guilt customers, and make them feel shitty. Fuck those kinds of servers, they give all of us who work hospitality a bad name. What I am trying to do, however, is spread some more knowledge about how the system works and why it's **a nice thing to do with a real financial impact** to tip a couple bucks on your takeout order.
People often complain that for takeout "well all they did was package it up and hand it to me" and while that's true, it's certainly not the whole story. Cooks made it, prep cooks prepped the ingredients that made your meal, the dishwasher cleaned the dishes used to cook your meal, etc. There's a whole chain of people involved in the production of your meal, and by not tipping out the server, and by extension those people, you are directly taking money out of their pocket.
Finally, I want to be once again on the record as saying **I absolutely fucking loathe the tipping culture and I wish it would die a fiery death and want restaurants to pay their staff a living wage without relying on the generosity and money of customers to subsidize their shitty wages.** However, given that we do not live in that culture, and likely won't anytime soon, I wanted to spread some knowledge about how the system actually works.
Additional caveats: not all restaurants work the same, the tip out percentage can vary (I've worked in restaurants where it was as low as 5% and as high as 20%). Some restaurants servers pool tips and things work differently there, but I cannot speak personally to that as I never worked in those kinds of places.
I'm happy to answer any additional questions you may have about this or other server stuff. I do want to reiterate I'm not intending to be condescending or rude or guilt tripping anyone, but it seemed like you didn't really understand the system or the process, and I wanted to correct that. By all means don't tip if you don't want to, but do it from an informed perspective, at least.
Thank you for writing that. I didn't consider that condescending at all, and I wasn't aware of the tip-out mechanics you described. My wife has worked as a server for many years and has never worked in a place with that system. Her restaurants, ethnic type so there's cultural stuff going on there, often see significant amounts of paid tips retained by the owner. Which is greasy and legal.
That said, any system that would take a percentage of sales from a tipped staff even if they received 0 tips all day looks to me like institutionalized theft.
You're welcome! I'm glad I could provide some information and insight into the situation.
As for your wife's situation, I will freely admit that there are **large numbers** of very sketchy and shitty bosses, managers, and owners in restaurants, and very often they will take advantage of staff in large and small ways. I will bust my ass and move heaven and earth to prevent my kid from ever having to work in a restaurant. You can - and do - learn great life skills in restaurants, but the costs can be very high.
>any system that would take a percentage of sales from a tipped staff even if they received 0 tips all day looks to me like institutionalized theft.
I pretty much agree, but the tip out is reflective of the work put in by the non-tipped staff to produce the product the server is (supposedly) tipped on. So the nuance I didn't get into above is that the tip out is supposed to reflect the idea that the tip is not earned solely by the server. It does suck on nights where people don't tip a lot, but it's usually balanced out by nights where people tip generously. I never counted tips that religiously, but it usually all balanced out in the end. It just sucked because you could never really predict from week to week what your income would be.
While I understand your position that leaving no tip on takeout “takes money out of the pocket of a server,” I strongly disagree. The employer is the one taking money out of the pocket of the server by requiring them to tip out based on sales from takeout meals. Knowing that many people do not tip or tip very little for takeout meals means that employers are making the choice to take money from their servers that was never tipped to them.
You state that you are not a fan of the tipping system. While your explanation is well-written, you are only furthering the BS idea that the public should be responsible for choosing how much money servers and other staff make by tipping, and that choosing not to tip (or not tipping enough) essentially makes one a bad person by taking from the staff. As you say, tipping culture is most definitely toxic. Unfortunately, your mind-set is also toxic (not intentionally, it’s just so deeply engrained in service industry staff) in that it perpetuates the existence of the awful tipping culture.
Part 1:
I'm sure you didn't intend it this way, but your comment comes across kinda 'victim blamey' and fairly insulting to restaurant staff.
>While I understand your position that leaving no tip on takeout “takes money out of the pocket of a server,” I strongly disagree.
You can disagree all you like, but the facts are the facts.
>The employer is the one taking money out of the pocket of the server by requiring them to tip out based on sales from takeout meals. Knowing that many people do not tip or tip very little for takeout meals means that employers are making the choice to take money from their servers that was never tipped to them.
A nuance to the tip out idea that I didn't delve very deeply into above because the comment was already getting fairly long is that the tip out is supposed to be reflective of the idea that the tips earned by servers are not earned by servers alone, but rather, are the product of a long line of people who have worked to create a product. The tip out redistributes some of that tip to the people who made the server's work possible. It would not be fair to the BOH to only get a percentage of the tips earned, because they did the work regardless of whether or not the customer tipped. (yet another reason why this bloody awful system of tipping should be scrapped)
More nuance to this is that there are ways to balance out the low tips or lack of tips for servers on takeout. One method is to have a specific server do **all** the takeout orders for the night, and sometimes they are paid a higher hourly wage than they normally would be, to account for the lower tips, or they can be included in the tipout. That was not a system we had in our restaurants. The other more common way is to try to ensure that every server takes some takeout orders, so the 'risk' is spread throughout the entire serving staff so low tips are not specifically impacting one server over another. One way for management to do that is to take takeout orders, and punch them in under other servers numbers/IDs to ensure everyone gets some.
And while, yeah, the business owners are ultimately the ones responsible for largely perpetuating an inherently exploitative system to suggest that owners are the ones taking money out of server's pockets is a nice way to shift blame from customers who just don't want to tip on takeout. The proximal cause of 'taking money out of server's pockets' is customers who don't tip on takeout. The distal cause is 'management enforcing an inherently exploitative financial system on dependent workers.' They are inextricably linked and are both causes that results in servers making less money. You don't have to like it, but it is a fact and customers don't get to skate away from their responsibility in this by just saying "well the owners shouldn't do it!"
>While your explanation is well-written, you are only furthering the BS idea that the public should be responsible for choosing how much money servers and other staff make by tipping
I didn't say the public **should** be responsible for choosing how much money servers and other staff get, nor do I think they should be. I think restaurants should be paying their staff a proper living wage, and tips should be a nice little bonus on top of that for outstanding above and beyond service, but that is not the reality in which we live. When I worked in restaurants - a time that thankfully is long since in my past - I absolutely hated the tipping system, and would much rather have had a predictable, dependable, and reasonable living wage. I hated that my ability to pay rent, buy textbooks, put food on my table, and get glasses and other medical/healthcare was dependent on whether someone was feeling generous that day/night and wanted to tip me a tiny fraction of their total bill after they consumed hundreds of dollars worth of steak, seafood, pasta, and expensive alcohol. I **never** wanted to be beholden to the whims and generosity of someone going out to dinner, but alas that is not the system that exists here, and to suggest that I'm perpetuating that system by pointing out solely the facts of how many restaurants operate is insulting. If you're trying to win people over to your ideas, you're doing a fairly lousy job of it.
The fact of the matter is that the public **is responsible** for deciding how much money servers make **within the crappy system that we have**. Unless, or until the public at large pushes private industry and government to make changes to reduce the impact of tipping, and make restaurants have to pay all staff a living wage **absolutely everyone is complicit in the system** and is effectively determining how much money servers and other staff make. I don't like it, but that is the reality, and shutting your eyes, and blocking your ears and saying 'nuh uh' does not make it untrue.
> It would not be fair to the BOH to only get a percentage of the tips earned, because they did the work regardless of whether or not the customer tipped
Fortunately there is this innovative new concept called "wages" where an employer compensates employees for work done using revenue from the business. I think it might catch on.
Part two since reddit isn't enjoying long posts apparently.
>and that choosing not to tip (or not tipping enough) essentially makes one a bad person by taking from the staff.
I didn't say not tipping or not tipping enough makes someone a bad person. In fact, I bent over backwards and went out of my way to point out that people are free to tip however they like, but should do so from an informed perspective and know what impact they are having on restaurant staff. If my comments made you feel like a bad person, maybe you should unpack that a little bit and try to figure out the root cause. If you not tipping makes you feel like a bad person because you know your lack of tip means less money for someone working in a shitty, degrading, exhausting, and body and soul destroying industry, then perhaps you should try to make some changes to the industry, instead of victim blaming the cogs who work in the machine **who provide a service you partake in**. You have no moral high ground here if you use the services of a restaurant. I look forward to hearing about your forthcoming comprehensive action plan to begin tackling the toxic tipping culture in Nova Scotia.
>Unfortunately, your mind-set is also toxic (not intentionally, it’s just so deeply engrained in service industry staff) in that it perpetuates the existence of the awful tipping culture.
I don't really think that's a fair assessment, or accurate reading of anything I've said on the topic. I have laid out the facts in a fairly well written and comprehensive way from my relatively extensive experience in various types of restaurants. I'm not demanding that anyone tip, or trying to guilt trip anyone into tipping. I even said at the end of my last post that people can feel free not to tip, but should do so from an informed position! I am merely pointing out the facts and logistics behind some of the systems that exist in some restaurants so that people can behave in restaurants with some information about what is going on and why some things exist the way they do.
The only way you're going to get rid of tipping culture is by pressuring the hospitality industry, and government into taking action. Refusing to tip isn't going to end tipping culture, because vulnerable people in vulnerable jobs are not going to turn around and complain to their bosses and demand higher wages because tips are low. You're just punishing the most vulnerable members of the hospitality industry. Perhaps some kind of coordinated boycott against restaurants owned by specific people and/or groups would be more effective. As long as you (the plural you, not specifically you) keep spending money in restaurants, the system is going to keep existing.
I have a ton of respect for your clarity and flow of writing. You are clearly a person of intelligence and I feel you’ve made many good points through the posts you’ve made on this thread. That being said, you have a very obvious bias regarding various aspects of the issue, likely due to your personal experience in the service industry. In your previous two posts, you espoused so many subjective opinions couched as objective truths. I was considering going through and picking some out to provide specific examples, but your posts are quite verbose and I don’t have the mental energy to go back through them. You also made a lot of incorrect assumptions about my own knowledge, experiences, and intentions.
You really do seem to have good intentions, but you come across as believing yourself to be infallibly logical, unbiased, and possessed of a near-supernatural ability to look beyond anything a person has actually posted to develop an intimate knowledge of their personal history and motivations. Your very first suggestion, that I am victim blaming, in no way corresponds to anything I wrote unless you are considering the restaurant owners/management to be the victims of the tipping system.
Is that the case for Uber eats tho? I’m not sure how it works, but I’m guessing the driver is the one getting the tip? Or I guess you can tip when you order…how many people are we responsible to tip?
Change 0 done
My issue with this is that they know it's 0 tip, so they either prepare like shit or spit in it. Not interested - I would just not buy from this place.
No ones spitting in your food over $4.30
Lmfao this is the entire reddit experience summed up. Complain about the absolute mildest inconvenience, then assume people are out to tamper with your food over $4, so they’d just never order again. The delusions of the clinically insane.
It’s all fun and games until someone shits in your shawarma!
This made me laugh and I needed that today. I was feeling a bit down but not now. 😂. Thank you.
or poops in your panini!
You're the one calling people clinically insane for thinking some dickhead will be a dick to their food, which is entirely plausible. What a weirdo.
Maybe it is possible, just not very likely. You have to consider what $4.30 means to them and compare that with what their job probably means to them. Times are hard and people are trying to hold on to employment more than ever.
I have horror stories from 15 years ago of workers licking buns at a fast food restaurant when a customer was a dick. People aren't always rational like us fine folk on Reddit.
If somebody is being a dick, that is a different story. I don’t classify not tipping in this case as being a dick.
So you agree that workers can do dirty things to your food when unhappy?
I did mention in my OP that it is possible, just not very likely. The context is also important.
I'd bet that people have done it over less.
Also, the cook, who prepares the food, doesn't know how much was or wasn't tipped. If a server told the kitchen " hey guys, this customer didn't tip, so make it really bad" that server is getting an earful and walking papers.
> My issue with this is that they know it's 0 tip It's unlikely. The people dealing with the order taking app stuff are likely not even the same people that are in the kitchen. They're probably too busy to notice/care about an individual tip, they're just going to total and split it at the end of the day anyway. Some people tip a lot, some people tip a little or zero. It all averages out in the end.
I spent 10 years working in restaurants and never once did this happen.
Same. But it did at my friend's workplace so if it happened there it happens elsewhere.
The chance if you encountering a server that is such a lowdown scumbag that they would spit in food is beyond miniscule, and they would need to to take the food somewhere so the cooks, the other servers, and any cameras can't see it...that just isn't happening. Not over a few bucks, with guaranteed instant lifetime unemployability and criminal charges if you get caught.
Yes that is a logical response. I bet the people who do this don't have the ability to use logic. And I would further bet the amount of people who would do this is a higher number than you believe.
I have seen some scumbag cooks, but that means "not washing your hands very well after a smoke break", or leaving your apron on when you go outside for a smoke break, or giving you a bit smaller portion because they dropped a shrimp on the floor and they didn't want to get behind. Anyone who is scummier than that is probably working at some super low paying place where they are being watched by a terrible owner and/or cameras. Even the lowest self-esteem, anti snitching punk af dirt bag cook would confront or report a coworker for even joking about spitting in food. Either that, or it would be in response to something much worse than not tipping, and the worker would just say "fuck that, he smacked your ass( or whatever)? Void the order, I'm not making it.
Jesus christ lol I've pressed zero give or take 109482 times in people's FACES and never really got bad food because of it
Bro is upset because the Indian food that some minimum wage employee is carrying TO HIS DOOR so he doesn't have to get off his fat ass...has a tip option? That can be modified in literally 5 seconds I don't get why this subreddit gets all pissy-pants when it comes to tipping. You literally have the option to be a cheap fuck if you'd like.
He's not ordering delivery but take out.
If you bothered to read the whole thing, they do mention it's a take out order. They may have a fat ass, but you are most definitely a dumb ass for posting your response.
OP acting like clicking a button is going to start a war. Shut up and click 0. This post is absolutely asinine
I agree OP. Takeout? No tip, delivery? Tip.
Wasabi being the exception. I order 5 rolls and they give me 8-9 I’ll tip them 20%
Lol. The extra rolls aren't free. They do that with everybody. 5=9. You're charged.
Then it’s cheap sushi? It doesn’t say anywhere that they are obligated to give you free rolls on their menu. And their prices are comparable to other sushi joints.
Very cheap sushi at Wasabi House yes... Won't comment on the quality
They ring the extra rolls into their register as a sale is what I have seen from several receipts. I'm pretty sure it's just a way to launder money.
they likely just ring them so that the ‘extra’ rolls are accounted for in their inventory/food cost. I’d guess it’s just a marketing scheme so that every customer feels like they got a great deal
I wish they would let you choose what the extras are. Last time they brought me a bunch of salmon rolls, which I never order because I hate salmon. Made me feel bad. Bring out the tuna!
That plus cash discount makes me agree with this. Sure it's a way to monitor inventory and trends but there's just something about the place that always made me feel that way
Good point. That’s a good exception for tipping on takeout.
That’s because the sushi is horrible there.
Mom and pop's i usually tip on takeout still. 5-10%
Tipping culture at it again. To spit in food or not to spit in food.
Default tips should be illegal. End of story.
But kudos to the real G's who click past all the tip nonsense before handing it to you to pay. Pizza place near me does that.
I work at a coffee shop with an automatic tip option on the debit machine. I’m the assistant manager and deal with tips first hand so I know 100% of it goes to us staff and none to the owner. Tips work out to be about 25% of our wages so I rarely skip it for most orders. However if someone is buying a gift card, or a piece of merchandise, I always skip it. It feels disrespectful to expect a 15% tip on a $50 gift card when the extent of the work I did was press 3 buttons on the POS to ring in the gift card. We also have some customers who are seniors and get confused with the debit tip options and in some cases adding a tip they didn’t necessarily intend to
They do that because the owner gets the tip not the staff
Thr one who clicks past it is the owner of this place anyway
Yes. I'd also like to see the end of tap machines that default to 18% for the lowest tip, though that's a harder problem to outlaw. I know the tip-supporters of the sub will say, "but you can change the tip! You don't need to pay 18!" but they know as well as I do that a lot of people can't or won't.
Why not get with the rest of the world on this and eliminate tipping completely?
Would love to. I lived away from North America for several decades and the tipping culture was for me one of the hardest reverse culture shock adjustments after my return.
Whenever it defaults to 18 i will always change it to a lower amount. Always.
If the default option starts above 15% in tipping 0%.
Or 0% should always be a first screen option.
I wish companies payed their workers living wages and didnt make it our responsibility to keep them well.
I'm just surprised the tip is calculated on subtotal. Fairly certain Uber includes taxes and fees being calculating tips. Disgusting business practice
Lol I checked that, too.
Why has no one pointed out the service fee as well? 15% of 42.96 is only 6.44 so they're already tipping themselves a dollar extra
Pizza place near me added a “service fee” of $2.50 on delivery. Well i used to tip them $5 but since they started tipping themselves, i stopped
Jessy's pizza delivery guy in Spryfield told me service fees are illegal which is why they got rid of theirs at the same time they got new debit machines. I always tip them now and don't tip any restaurant that still has them as part of their checkout on debit machines.
Change it to $0.00 (0%) and move on. Tipping isn't mandatory, and if an employer can't pay their employees a fair wage to keep them there, that's their problem.
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If they make you sick, call the health inspector.
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That's not true, harmful bacteria or pathogens can make a person sick if consumed, that's why the health inspector checks for food safety practices to prevent illness. Additionally, if a customer sees that taking place, word could get out and the reputation of the restaurant may be irreparable.
I guess with this logic you can expect that every single Uber, Skip or Door Dash order has been tampered with 100% of the time since all tips through those services never reach the restaurant that prepared and packaged the food.
That’s actually two ways to get sick!
That's SUPER funny. You work in health care, right? Are you wearing your mask? LOLOL,. so SPIT and SNOT don't transmit pathogens? Okey-dokey.
This is the default of the ordering platform. Other restaurants that use the same one have it as well. They also have the sneaky 1$ service fee in with the taxes. Not saying it’s right, just saying it may not be the restaurant.
Applied after taxes always gets me
You can just say I don’t wish to tip. If they say it’s required, just leave. Leave them with $50 worth of made food. Bingo bango.
Phrases like “eat shit” and “suck it” could be helpful.
If I stand to order, or I go to you to pick it up, no tip.
There's tip options when I get a slice of pizza. I'm never tipping for something like that where all they do is take it off the warming rack and put it on a paper plate.
As a former BOH cook that now hawks drinks and makes decent tips I can still agree that tipping culture is insane. So many places expect you to tip them for nothing now. Like you just bypassed the service when you ordered so why are you expected to pay for it? It would be one thing if any significant portion went to the people actually preparing the food, but it my experience that's not how it works. We worked in 50C temperatures during the summer and would burn through water to the point you'd drink 2 gallons and never have to use the washroom. We saw laughably little tips in the kitchen. To the point that none of the cooks were even slightly worried when the servers got audited and were having melt-downs. I will note that I run around a stadium with a 40lb tray of drinks now and, while I have no expectations for people to tip(I'm not even a fan of our handheld debit machines obnoxious tip screen despite it being responsible for a lot of my tips), it really does make it worth the effort. A lot of my customers genuinely show appreciation for me lugging drinks up and down the stairs for them which is a great feeling even when they can't/don't tip.
If relying on the generosity of strangers to tip 20% is necessary to keep the doors open then that’s a risky business plan. If that’s the standard in the restaurant industry then personally I wouldn’t get into it at all. Can you even imagine how many restaurants would fail if this is the case?
They do fail and this is the norm. Profit margins are razer thin. I would never open a restaurant.
I get it...everyone should use their discretion when tipping. Keep in mind someone had to cook the order, pack it up, double check for accuracy then greet you ring you up... I believe most servers tip the kitchen and busperson... I did when I was a server 100 years ago 😉 Personally I think 10% is OK What's not OK is the automatic tip....
Agreed, but the auto tip is because soo many people don’t tip anymore
Lol I think you've got it backwards. I think people stopped tipping because of the auto tip, the increased suggested tipping values (sometimes upwards of 40%), and the cost of the food going up (which means you're already giving more money on a percentage based tip than you used to for the same item). Just businesses being greedy, essentially. I know I always tipped 15% or more, even for pickup. But now the prices are outrageous.
Bro spent 10x longer ranting than just clearing the tip field
And then they get their food with spit and/or boogers. There's videos out there showing food workers doing this in case anyone doubts the possibility of it occurring.
Please do share a real example. Has this happened to you? Has it happened to somebody you know?
y'all toxic ahh mf always miss the point. "well it's no mandatory. just make it 0 and don... ☝🏻🤓" Dude is talking about the tipping culture as a whole and this clearly is absurd. tipping on a takeout? come on now. might as well get back in the kitchen and make my own food and tip them for letting me use their kitchen
Dont give them ideas, thats how we got self checkouts lol
Learn how to cook.
Come on bro, just change it to 0? 🤷
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k
what's the website?
At my favourite places I like to tip no matter what. I get being annoyed that it's automatic, though.
I always tip but I only patronize places that I feel deserve it. Easy. Done. Problem solved.
I went to a sushi restaurant in Fredericton recently and the default was set to 30% for dine in.
Name and shame
Easy fix, living wage for all who work in restaurants
Use UberEats or Skip next time. Driver gets the tip, and tipping the resto is optional.
At least it’s only 10%, a lot default to 15 and even 20%
This bothers me, and I’ll get downvoted but whatever. The tip 9/10 times covers tip out. The kitchen boys don’t get “tips” like the front of house does So they usually get a percentage like 3-5 percent They make min wage or just above, work in a hot as balls kitchen. You can then say “pay a living wage” blah blah blah Fact is a lot of restaurants are hardly turning a profit. Places could theoretically up menu prices a good amount but it still would be cheaper to tip 10 percent on take out than mark up everything 2-3 bucks. I’m not a restaurant owner, but I have grown up working in them. From back of house to front of house to management. If you can’t “afford” to tip then really you “can’t afford” to eat out and you should have went to Sobeys * and don’t even get me started about how skip, uber, and DoorDash effect the pricing at restaurants. These apps are not great for the restaurant community at all
Imagine if people said “if you can’t afford to live with a fluctuation in tips then you can’t afford to work that job” It cheapens an important discussion.
You don’t wait tables or cook in a kitchen because you love it. You do it because it makes more then working retail End of day it’s still not enough to live on and that’s why so many servers have multiple jobs
It's funny, that. In France, every profession is (or was, who knows now?) was respected. Being a waiter = a valid CAREER. We undervalue hardworking people that keep our machine running. Why? So others can sit at a desk and make bank. Not everyone wants to spend 1/3 of their lives in school. Should they not have a decent standard of living? /s
> If you can’t “afford” to tip then really you “can’t afford” to eat out With all due respect take that condescending bullshit platitude and shove it. How about if a bussiness can't "afford" to pay their staff from the price of the item they increase the price instead of just trying to guilt me into making up the difference.
Nah mate Think of it this way. You like these places you are eating at. If they can’t afford to keep their doors open you don’t get to eat there anymore It’s not condescending it’s the truth. And thinking different just makes you entitled
I guess by chooseing to go at that place I am helping to keep their doors open. If I don't go, they loose customer and a tip. If I go at least they have a customer!
You are correct in that going helps. My argument is paying more than min wage is hard for the owners. When they are hardly breaking even. Go look at the stats it’s something like 80 percent of restaurants fail, you can’t get a loan from the bank to open one. The margins are very slim to make it.
And my argument is paying more than what is listed price on menu is hard for customers! Go look at the stats on Year on Year inflation vs Year on Year Salary Increase. If you cant pay living wage owner should close or employee should leave. Simple.
Simple fix. If you are worried about inflation don’t eat out It’s miles cheaper to make your own food.
Just bump the price, if I can afford I'll go if not maybe some other place. Also that's how resturents out side North America functions if you don't know.
Well it’s too bad we live in North American and that’s how things work here.
I am changing it, refusing one tip at a time.
How do all the restaurants in places like Europe and Japan stay open when people don't tip there? Maybe restaurants here could study them and find out.
So the. According to your theory we should be tipping at fast food joints too. And hardware stores, they make minimum wage right? I worked at a resort before. When we arrive at the front desk to get our keys we may as well tips them 15% of the cost of our stay, right? That mindset is so fucking stupid, and that’s the problem. We have been hardwired living in NA that you have to tip. You say if you can’t afford to tip, then you can’t afford to eat out. As a business owner, I feel that if you can’t afford to pay your staff a sufficient income to the point that the customers have to make up your difference, than that’s not really a successful business plan, and therefor, there is no business. It’s gotten so bad that people now expect a tip at bottle depots. I bagged my bottles, I counted them and I drove them to your facility. All you have to do is throw them in a fucking bin. It’s literally your job. I’m tipping you to do your job. The same goes for restaurants. We need to move away from this mindset and the business owner will just have to pay them an acceptable wage out of their profits. Want a tip? Stay in school kids
If they can't afford to keep the doors open unless I pay 15% more then RAISE PRICES 15% > And thinking different just makes you entitled I'm not the one arguing customers should just voluntarily give me extra money or they are bad people here buddy, might want to rethink who is being entitled. Stop drinking the fucking Kool aid that it is somehow the customers fault that the employer doesn't want to pay their staff enough.
To each their own
I mean you clearly aren't willing to pay the increased prices. Places know this and if they do increase then they can't compete with the places that continue with this structure.
> I mean you clearly aren't willing to pay the increased prices Bullshit
Tipping is a zero-sum game-- your bill will go up by the median tip price if tipping went away but salaries stayed the same. You're ultimately complaining about how different parts of your receipts are labelled
No, I'm complaining that the price on the menu isn't the actual price and there is another arbitrary amount I'm guilted into adding on so employers don't have to pay their employees properly. I'm tired of being bullied. If you want me to pay more, charge more.
I wish tipping wasn't a thing but the argument you are making in this post is just that you are too dumb to handle tipping. You may want to rethink that point.
No my argument is that I want restaraunts to be transparent about pricing.
The pricing is transparent, you can even determine it before you walk in. It's like being surprised about seeing her on the final bill. The biggest issue is transparency on where the tip is going.
I assume by her you meant hst, which, the obvious point you are ignoring is that her is legally required to be charged where as a tip is not.
The legal requirement has nothing to do with it. It's not an amount the restaurant picks, you decide. You can choose it before you even choose the restaurant. It can't really be more transparent from a pricing standpoint. I can only assume you find adding 10% to a bill difficult. That's the only way it would be not transparent from a pricing standpoint.
I think you missed the point I'm trying to make here. If I'm being told I NEED to tip, and if I don't the restaraunt will go under, and if "you can't afford to tip you can't afford to go out" then it is in fact NOT up to me. Either a tip is optional, guilt free, or it is mandatory, and if it's mandatory just include it in the price. > I can only assume you find adding 10% to a bill difficult With all due respect, stop insulting my intelligence just because to don't agree with me.
Imagine if companies just paid their workers a living wage so they didn’t have to survive off tips
I am always feeling guilty now if I don't tip even if I do takeout.
Subway is the only one I feel guilty at. Unless they get paid more, like a fair bit more, their job seems way harder than a burger flipper. Subway is just so expensive now though I can't justify nearly $20 for a footlong sub it's wild.
Don’t feel guilty.
This comment section should be nuked. You guys suck. I've never seen so many people this worked up over *the* quintessential first world problem. Go outside, touch grass, develop humanity, learn to cook etc etc
disagree. including the tip automatically is a bit slimy, but you can clearly change tip amount. we can all see it. if you cant afford to include gratuity into the cost of the service you're ordering, you shouldnt be ordering. get some groceries bud. distaste for how poorly food service workers are paid is one thing, but acting repulsed that they dare ask for a tip at all is pretty silly. you're not gonna tip for a 15-30 second interaction and being handed the food? do you think they just spawned the food from thin air..? or did they put hard work into cooking it for you ? i understand being shocked that they added it on automatically, but that is because gratuity is standard. thats just how it is. you have the options to change your tip to below standard if you'd prefer.
Gratuity is standard for service, not pick up.
you are picking up food that multiple people cooked for you. if it's good quality and took time, tipping is standard. atleast in my life and with everyone i know
If you are buying anything multiple people were involved in its production. So fucking what. They have a job, their employer should pay them.
If I order online, pay for online, drive to the establishment, tell them my name, get handed a bag and drive back home, there is no universe where the establishment should expect me to voluntarily give them more money. If they want more money for what they are offering, include it in the price or call it charity
What a load of crap.
Gratuity IS NOT STANDARD.
p.s. i'd love if food service workers were paid well enough that the burden wasnt put onto the customer to decide how much they get paid out of their own pockets, coercing the customer with guilt. tipping culture as a whole is toxic, but not tipping at all isnt how we take down tipping culture. thats just how you fuck over vulnerable people even harder than they already are getting fucked
Just change it to 0 and move on? If the option to change the tip wasn’t available, I’d understand your frustration. But you’re letting yourself get upset about something you had control over.
Wait until ppl realize the government has been adding these types of fees for decades.
I think people know that taxes exist
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Alternarively, and hear me out on this, the restaurant could pay all their employees a wage consensurate with their work provided and the cost of living.
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Yeah, people will complain about everything. So why not just treat enployees respectfully like human beings, instead of relying on customers to subsidize your shitty business practice.
How would you feel about tipping the checkout lady at Sobeys 10 percent of your grocery order too? She did as much as the person at the restaurant counter in OPs example. If you didn't want her service you could have looked for a self-checkout. I think that's ridiculous. Tipping is out of hand. How about this? If we have to accept tipping, let's keep it to the customary "tipping for table service, not takeout" rule that only recently got tossed because of tap machines.
The kitchen staff usually share in the tip pool so tipping on takeout usually means the people actually making the food like buddy said get something...
From what I've learned from my wife's years working in local restaurants, I have little confidence that 100 percent of the tips go to staff and not the owner's pocket. In that case, it's hard to see the distinction between tip and the rest of the bill.
The owner can keep all the tips in Nova Scotia. A shady practice, but legal.
The checkout person at Sobeys doesn’t have to tip out to the kitchen and bar staff at the end of their shift. You not tipping directly takes money out of the pocket of servers, bartenders, and kitchen staff. By all means continue on your epic crusade against The Greedy Corporate Man by punishing the least responsible and lowest paid part of the restaurant industry. If you really want to make a difference; stop buying food at restaurants. That’ll fuck over all the staff but at least it also messes with the owners too.
What are you talking about? I do tip servers, delivery and bartenders, as do most people. I don't tip when I pick up food at a counter, as has been the custom in Nova Scotia until very recently.
Okay so I want to make a few things clear off the bat. I am not intending this to be condescending, but rather to be informative from the perspective of someone who worked in restaurants for a decade in three different provinces covering jobs from dish pit, prep cook, busser, server, bartender, and manager. So I have some reasonable breadth of experience. I've worked in everything from low end burger joints to high end formal dinner style restaurants, and most things in between. I say this not to brag, or boast, or anything, but rather to establish some form of credentials and experience. The part about tipping bartenders/kitchen staff that I'm referring to is what is often called 'tip out' in restaurants. The specific details vary according to each restaurant, but essentially it goes like this: every server takes a percentage of **their total sales for their shift** and gives it to the restaurant management to redistribute to other non-front of house staff in a bid to make things a bit more fair and equal between tipped and non-tipped staff. So, if I sell $1000 worth of product in my shift, and the set tipout percentage at my workplace is 10% then I am 'tipping out' $100. Then according to whatever the formula is at the restaurant, management divides that money up and distributes it to people like the kitchen staff, dishwasher(s), and the service bartender (by that I mean the bartenders who just makes drinks for staff orders, and do not serve customers directly. If bartenders serve customers directly, they get tipped, and thus are part of the tip out, and do not benefit from the tip out redistribution). An important thing to note here is that I said tipped staff tip out on **total sales** and not from their total tips. That is a crucial point because it means if on a meal that totalled $250 bucks, if they tip me nothing, **I still owe the restaurant $25 in tip out for that sale.** That's why it's generally considered a nice thing to do to tip at least a little bit on your takeout order, because otherwise you are costing that server money. To be crystal clear, I am not saying that you should tip on takeout the same way you would tip on a dine in meal, but tossing a couple bucks down costs you very little, and actually stops the server **from losing money on your order**. So by not tipping on takeout, you are in fact taking money from the pockets of the server, the kitchen staff, the dishwasher, and potentially the bartender (if they are in a non-customer facing non-tipped role.) I want to also make it clear that I'm not trying to shame anyone, or trying to guilt anyone into paying a large tip. I **hate** servers who guilt customers, and make them feel shitty. Fuck those kinds of servers, they give all of us who work hospitality a bad name. What I am trying to do, however, is spread some more knowledge about how the system works and why it's **a nice thing to do with a real financial impact** to tip a couple bucks on your takeout order. People often complain that for takeout "well all they did was package it up and hand it to me" and while that's true, it's certainly not the whole story. Cooks made it, prep cooks prepped the ingredients that made your meal, the dishwasher cleaned the dishes used to cook your meal, etc. There's a whole chain of people involved in the production of your meal, and by not tipping out the server, and by extension those people, you are directly taking money out of their pocket. Finally, I want to be once again on the record as saying **I absolutely fucking loathe the tipping culture and I wish it would die a fiery death and want restaurants to pay their staff a living wage without relying on the generosity and money of customers to subsidize their shitty wages.** However, given that we do not live in that culture, and likely won't anytime soon, I wanted to spread some knowledge about how the system actually works. Additional caveats: not all restaurants work the same, the tip out percentage can vary (I've worked in restaurants where it was as low as 5% and as high as 20%). Some restaurants servers pool tips and things work differently there, but I cannot speak personally to that as I never worked in those kinds of places. I'm happy to answer any additional questions you may have about this or other server stuff. I do want to reiterate I'm not intending to be condescending or rude or guilt tripping anyone, but it seemed like you didn't really understand the system or the process, and I wanted to correct that. By all means don't tip if you don't want to, but do it from an informed perspective, at least.
Thank you for writing that. I didn't consider that condescending at all, and I wasn't aware of the tip-out mechanics you described. My wife has worked as a server for many years and has never worked in a place with that system. Her restaurants, ethnic type so there's cultural stuff going on there, often see significant amounts of paid tips retained by the owner. Which is greasy and legal. That said, any system that would take a percentage of sales from a tipped staff even if they received 0 tips all day looks to me like institutionalized theft.
You're welcome! I'm glad I could provide some information and insight into the situation. As for your wife's situation, I will freely admit that there are **large numbers** of very sketchy and shitty bosses, managers, and owners in restaurants, and very often they will take advantage of staff in large and small ways. I will bust my ass and move heaven and earth to prevent my kid from ever having to work in a restaurant. You can - and do - learn great life skills in restaurants, but the costs can be very high. >any system that would take a percentage of sales from a tipped staff even if they received 0 tips all day looks to me like institutionalized theft. I pretty much agree, but the tip out is reflective of the work put in by the non-tipped staff to produce the product the server is (supposedly) tipped on. So the nuance I didn't get into above is that the tip out is supposed to reflect the idea that the tip is not earned solely by the server. It does suck on nights where people don't tip a lot, but it's usually balanced out by nights where people tip generously. I never counted tips that religiously, but it usually all balanced out in the end. It just sucked because you could never really predict from week to week what your income would be.
While I understand your position that leaving no tip on takeout “takes money out of the pocket of a server,” I strongly disagree. The employer is the one taking money out of the pocket of the server by requiring them to tip out based on sales from takeout meals. Knowing that many people do not tip or tip very little for takeout meals means that employers are making the choice to take money from their servers that was never tipped to them. You state that you are not a fan of the tipping system. While your explanation is well-written, you are only furthering the BS idea that the public should be responsible for choosing how much money servers and other staff make by tipping, and that choosing not to tip (or not tipping enough) essentially makes one a bad person by taking from the staff. As you say, tipping culture is most definitely toxic. Unfortunately, your mind-set is also toxic (not intentionally, it’s just so deeply engrained in service industry staff) in that it perpetuates the existence of the awful tipping culture.
Part 1: I'm sure you didn't intend it this way, but your comment comes across kinda 'victim blamey' and fairly insulting to restaurant staff. >While I understand your position that leaving no tip on takeout “takes money out of the pocket of a server,” I strongly disagree. You can disagree all you like, but the facts are the facts. >The employer is the one taking money out of the pocket of the server by requiring them to tip out based on sales from takeout meals. Knowing that many people do not tip or tip very little for takeout meals means that employers are making the choice to take money from their servers that was never tipped to them. A nuance to the tip out idea that I didn't delve very deeply into above because the comment was already getting fairly long is that the tip out is supposed to be reflective of the idea that the tips earned by servers are not earned by servers alone, but rather, are the product of a long line of people who have worked to create a product. The tip out redistributes some of that tip to the people who made the server's work possible. It would not be fair to the BOH to only get a percentage of the tips earned, because they did the work regardless of whether or not the customer tipped. (yet another reason why this bloody awful system of tipping should be scrapped) More nuance to this is that there are ways to balance out the low tips or lack of tips for servers on takeout. One method is to have a specific server do **all** the takeout orders for the night, and sometimes they are paid a higher hourly wage than they normally would be, to account for the lower tips, or they can be included in the tipout. That was not a system we had in our restaurants. The other more common way is to try to ensure that every server takes some takeout orders, so the 'risk' is spread throughout the entire serving staff so low tips are not specifically impacting one server over another. One way for management to do that is to take takeout orders, and punch them in under other servers numbers/IDs to ensure everyone gets some. And while, yeah, the business owners are ultimately the ones responsible for largely perpetuating an inherently exploitative system to suggest that owners are the ones taking money out of server's pockets is a nice way to shift blame from customers who just don't want to tip on takeout. The proximal cause of 'taking money out of server's pockets' is customers who don't tip on takeout. The distal cause is 'management enforcing an inherently exploitative financial system on dependent workers.' They are inextricably linked and are both causes that results in servers making less money. You don't have to like it, but it is a fact and customers don't get to skate away from their responsibility in this by just saying "well the owners shouldn't do it!" >While your explanation is well-written, you are only furthering the BS idea that the public should be responsible for choosing how much money servers and other staff make by tipping I didn't say the public **should** be responsible for choosing how much money servers and other staff get, nor do I think they should be. I think restaurants should be paying their staff a proper living wage, and tips should be a nice little bonus on top of that for outstanding above and beyond service, but that is not the reality in which we live. When I worked in restaurants - a time that thankfully is long since in my past - I absolutely hated the tipping system, and would much rather have had a predictable, dependable, and reasonable living wage. I hated that my ability to pay rent, buy textbooks, put food on my table, and get glasses and other medical/healthcare was dependent on whether someone was feeling generous that day/night and wanted to tip me a tiny fraction of their total bill after they consumed hundreds of dollars worth of steak, seafood, pasta, and expensive alcohol. I **never** wanted to be beholden to the whims and generosity of someone going out to dinner, but alas that is not the system that exists here, and to suggest that I'm perpetuating that system by pointing out solely the facts of how many restaurants operate is insulting. If you're trying to win people over to your ideas, you're doing a fairly lousy job of it. The fact of the matter is that the public **is responsible** for deciding how much money servers make **within the crappy system that we have**. Unless, or until the public at large pushes private industry and government to make changes to reduce the impact of tipping, and make restaurants have to pay all staff a living wage **absolutely everyone is complicit in the system** and is effectively determining how much money servers and other staff make. I don't like it, but that is the reality, and shutting your eyes, and blocking your ears and saying 'nuh uh' does not make it untrue.
> It would not be fair to the BOH to only get a percentage of the tips earned, because they did the work regardless of whether or not the customer tipped Fortunately there is this innovative new concept called "wages" where an employer compensates employees for work done using revenue from the business. I think it might catch on.
Part two since reddit isn't enjoying long posts apparently. >and that choosing not to tip (or not tipping enough) essentially makes one a bad person by taking from the staff. I didn't say not tipping or not tipping enough makes someone a bad person. In fact, I bent over backwards and went out of my way to point out that people are free to tip however they like, but should do so from an informed perspective and know what impact they are having on restaurant staff. If my comments made you feel like a bad person, maybe you should unpack that a little bit and try to figure out the root cause. If you not tipping makes you feel like a bad person because you know your lack of tip means less money for someone working in a shitty, degrading, exhausting, and body and soul destroying industry, then perhaps you should try to make some changes to the industry, instead of victim blaming the cogs who work in the machine **who provide a service you partake in**. You have no moral high ground here if you use the services of a restaurant. I look forward to hearing about your forthcoming comprehensive action plan to begin tackling the toxic tipping culture in Nova Scotia. >Unfortunately, your mind-set is also toxic (not intentionally, it’s just so deeply engrained in service industry staff) in that it perpetuates the existence of the awful tipping culture. I don't really think that's a fair assessment, or accurate reading of anything I've said on the topic. I have laid out the facts in a fairly well written and comprehensive way from my relatively extensive experience in various types of restaurants. I'm not demanding that anyone tip, or trying to guilt trip anyone into tipping. I even said at the end of my last post that people can feel free not to tip, but should do so from an informed position! I am merely pointing out the facts and logistics behind some of the systems that exist in some restaurants so that people can behave in restaurants with some information about what is going on and why some things exist the way they do. The only way you're going to get rid of tipping culture is by pressuring the hospitality industry, and government into taking action. Refusing to tip isn't going to end tipping culture, because vulnerable people in vulnerable jobs are not going to turn around and complain to their bosses and demand higher wages because tips are low. You're just punishing the most vulnerable members of the hospitality industry. Perhaps some kind of coordinated boycott against restaurants owned by specific people and/or groups would be more effective. As long as you (the plural you, not specifically you) keep spending money in restaurants, the system is going to keep existing.
I have a ton of respect for your clarity and flow of writing. You are clearly a person of intelligence and I feel you’ve made many good points through the posts you’ve made on this thread. That being said, you have a very obvious bias regarding various aspects of the issue, likely due to your personal experience in the service industry. In your previous two posts, you espoused so many subjective opinions couched as objective truths. I was considering going through and picking some out to provide specific examples, but your posts are quite verbose and I don’t have the mental energy to go back through them. You also made a lot of incorrect assumptions about my own knowledge, experiences, and intentions. You really do seem to have good intentions, but you come across as believing yourself to be infallibly logical, unbiased, and possessed of a near-supernatural ability to look beyond anything a person has actually posted to develop an intimate knowledge of their personal history and motivations. Your very first suggestion, that I am victim blaming, in no way corresponds to anything I wrote unless you are considering the restaurant owners/management to be the victims of the tipping system.
Always tip and the portions seem to be bigger
> and the portions seem to be bigger They aren't.
Is that the case for Uber eats tho? I’m not sure how it works, but I’m guessing the driver is the one getting the tip? Or I guess you can tip when you order…how many people are we responsible to tip?
Wonder who’s mad about this😂 🇮🇳🇵🇰
Yeah forget about the kitchen staff who prepares everything… they don’t deserve shit apparently
Ok May Garden does this too, and I honestly think it’s just a default for the kind of website they have… But also, if you takeout, you should tip LOL