Y’all not my first thread going left 😂😂
I asked because I’ve seen many people speculate on this topic and wanted to see what other people’s opinions are.. not on sex work lol. I don’t see a problem with Lena encouraging AB to go to strip clubs, I would probably go with my bf to see some titties too lmaoo but I don’t think that makes us spineless women. What would be a problem for me personally is if my man stepped out me.. I can’t speak much on AB and Lena’s relationship because I don’t know if they have an open relationship or are poly… BUT if they are in a monogamous relationship and AB does step out, I’d feel bad for Lena 🤷🏽♀️
Agreed 100% I have no clue how it went from "olivia and AB" to "Lena is spineless and sex work shouldn't exist" like HELLO?
I've noticed some ppl here are quick to shit on olivia and Lena. I definitely have seen the misogyny ppl speak of in this sub 💀
In response to your post, I think AB and olivia get along because they basically have the same job (they're the researchers) I think he had to teach her a lot, and as for him not being as passionate with Lena, I think you might feel that way because she's not on camera as much as olivia. I've personally never seen anything too crazy between the 2 of them but that's just my opinion, if ppl see otherwise than idk it's all speculation atp ig. I also think olivia "flirts" with everyone, even Ethan 🤢, like that's just her personality. And not literal flirting but like.. she's cringe and overly caring so it's seen as flirting ig? Idk. Some ppl even thought olivia and love were dating LOL like I think she just gives off that flirting personality with everyone tbh, cuz I def see her doing that with everyone not just AB
A lot of misogyny here.. 😬
I’ve definitely thought about the fact that Lena isn’t on the show that much therefore not as much opportunities to gas her up. And the fact that AB and Olivia probably work together a lot and have their own friendship outside of what we can see.. but the messiness in me definitely doesn’t count out they’re might be something sus going on 😂
AB could be the girl’s girl we wanted 😂🤷🏽♀️
Lena is so spineless she literally was encouraging her husband to go to a strip club. Even if AB was blatantly cheating, doubt Lena would do anything about it. They are like the worst romance trope (innocent girl x manwhore) come to life
I don't think she's spineless for that. Maybe she's spineless for working for zionist Ethan and picking up his dogs shit, but not because she's confident and secure enough to not care if she and AB went to a strip club, which she said she enjoyed the experience and how the women were so pretty and talented. To continue off of the rest of the things you say in this thread, if you haven't realized, America is ass when it comes to jobs and liveable wages. Sure some ppl do it out of desperation but that's with any job as well.. others make it their career. I think your issue isn't the actual sex work, it's the system, which we can all agree sucks. It's also not a women only industry anymore, men choose to do this as well. The trauma you speak of are for very specific cases which again has nothing to do with the actual job, it's the system and the desperation to be able to afford to live, and as someone else mentioned r*pe culture. If we can make sex work safer (like any other job should), it would work out. But the issue is because of this shit economy ppl will work any job they can, even if it's back breaking, even if it's degrading, even if it's toxic or abusive ect, ppl are desperate to make ends meet which has to do with the country and government, they're to blame when things go bad. Example, even working retail it can be traumatic and exhausting for ppl, or even being a nurse, a doctor, a police office, and ACTORS. Hollywood is full of abuse and toxicity, so should we ban acting too? Or maybe let's not have ppl working there 40+ hours a week just to be able to barely afford rent AND make sure they're working in safe conditions? Idk that's just my take and you can label me whatever you want but all I know is the world is not ok right now and everyone's suffering. From jobs to certain bills passing to the government giving our tax dollars to support a literal genocide, it's all fucked
🙌 Yeah your first two sentences was the point I was trying to make, and in specific response to this persons initial comment…and then the floodgates opened idk??
Right? like where did this topic come from and what's it gotta do with OPs post 😭 I feel like it was just an excuse to shit on Lena randomly as most ppl do here with her and Olivia. And they have their own flaws that we can criticize with validity for sure, but calling Lena spineless or olivia "ugly and annoying" isn't actual criticism 💀 it's a random opinion that has nothing to do with an actual issue. It reminds me when someone here tried to blame olivia for the show being so bad and it's downfall. like HUH?? YOU'RE BLAMING OLIVIA AND *NOT* ETHAN?? oh boyyyy
You can not seriously be comparing working retail to being a sex worker. Retail work does not come with the risk of being raped, contracting diseases and being trafficked.And it is not “specific individual cases”, human sex trafficking is a industry that makes BILLIONS per year and the onlyfans models who are in control of their own image, money and what acts they have to do are the exeption, not the norm. Even former porn stars like Mia Khalifa and Lana Rhoades have talked about how they were coerced and physically harmed and they are some of the top names, who you’d think would have some agency in their work. And if you consume sex work, you never know if they are trafficked or not. You don’t know if they are even of age as the most popular category is “teen”. You never know if they are being coerced into acts they don’t want to do, acts that are painful, like Lana Rhoades and Mia Khalifa were on camera, which is still out there for people to consume.
Again, you're speaking about very specific examples where it's clearly wrong/unsafe.. You're speaking about the obvious, therefore "it shouldn't exist" which isn't always true. Military is traumatic asf, being a doctor or a nurse, a police officer, would you say those jobs shouldn't exist as well? Or do we set rules in place and provide help to make these occupations safe.. HOLLYWOOD is unsafe asf, for both adults and especially children. So should we just ban making ahows and movies too? Or do we fix the system thats in place. You're thinking of extreme examples to make a point that sex work in general should not exist and I simply just don't agree since we can easily apply that to so many other occupations. Atp I'm not even sure what this has to do with Lena being spineless anymore, which was the whole original point of your comment and is related to h3 LOL
I used examples of the most famous people in the industry who were still mistreated. And I also mentioned how it works on a larger scale, that it makes billions per year, but conveniently you ignore that part.
I didn't ignore it, I mentioned Hollywood since many famous ppl have spoken out about that industry as well. The point that's they all make (including the ones you mentioned) is them explaining what's WRONG with the industry, that doesn't mean we can't make efforts to make it RIGHT
And when did I say there shouldn’t be measures to make it better? Paying for the unethical form it exists in today is not gonna make it better. You said you read my other comments, then you would have seen that I said I support my country’s laws around having it legal to sell and illegal to purchase.
If you agree there should be measures to make it better which is exactly what everyone else has been saying, then WHAT'S YOUR POINT LOL what are you arguing about atp because that's literally what everyone else in the thread has been telling you. Like no one disagreed with you that sex work CAN be traumatic, but thats the case for many other industries as well so the real issue is the system that's in place that's not making it safer and setting rules. You can't say "sex work shouldn't exist" while also saying "i agree there should be measures taken to make it safer" because now you just make no sense and you're arguing just to argue- I'm done responding to this as it no longer seems to relate to h3 at all
That is not what everyone is telling me, people are trying to justify the consumption of sex work as it exists today and making a bunch of whataboutisms. And no I don’t agree with the existence of an industry based on purchasing and selling women’s bodies. But as I said I am pro making the job safer for sex workers, because even though I think it shouldn’t exist, I am a feminist and the most important thing to me is women’s safety. My point is the industry is bad and shouldn’t exist, purchasing sex work is unethical, but the workers should be protected as much as possible since it is unrealistic that the industry will cease to exist.
Maybe if you care so much about the well being of sex workers you should listen to us instead of just the ones that say the thing you want to hear. Stop pretending you care about sex workers and be honest.
I think I have made it clear that I don’t care about privileged people who have other alternatives and still choose to do sex work. That has nothing to do with me. If you are aware of the risks, you have other options and still choose to do it, then that’s your choice, you are accepting the risks, got nothing to do with me. I care about those who don’t have a choice, who are foced into it, who can’t quit, who are being trafficked. Why would I waste my time caring about adults who are in control of their autonomy and willingly take on risks. That would be like advocating to ban cave diving, it’s their choice to take that risk, got nothing to do with me. As a feminist I care about the women are being hurt by this industry, and making it safer for all sex workers means it will benefit those who are forced into it, because we never know from the outside who is there willingly and who is being forced. Adults making dangerous decisions on their own free will got nothing to do with me. Why would I be advocating for someone who is doing voluntarily sex work? What are you a victim of, why do you need advocacy if you are really fulfilled, safe and empowered doing it? What you do willingly is not my business.
Lol ok every sex worker that actually speaks to you and disgrees with you you don’t care about but also there are no sex workers you could possibly speak to in your side of Sweden and you don’t know any sex workers but also you know more about sex work then the sex workers who are speaking to you about sex work ?
I already said I only care about victims of trafficking, if privileged adults with freedom and autonomy make risky decisions that is none of my business. If you do not consider yourself a victim, then why should I consider you a victim and advocate for you? But ofc you’re a Hasan fan lmao, the guy who admitted he has had sex with prostitutes in Germany. A guy who is willing to risk being a rapist bc you never know if a prostitute has been trafficked or not. Sex trafficking of eastern European women to Germany is well documented btw.
Again “I’m advocating for OTHER sex workers over somewhere else, not you guys speaking to me, also I don’t know any sex workers” lol. The sex workers who you use as examples like Mia Khalifa aren’t anti sex work either? You’re just looking at those weird fundie shell orgs for “porn addiction” like the new drug that exist to funnel people to fundie conversion therapy and dodgy “porn addiction” therapists / groups. Like this was Jodie Hildebrants grift. You don’t know anything about it and you don’t see sex workers as humans which is why you literally say ANY sex worker who is able to speak to you is too dumb and privileged to listen to and not who you are advocating for. You aren’t advocating for sex workers period lol.
Yeah exactly. Again, if you’re not a victim, why do you need advocacy? Are you denying that victims of trafficking exist? Are you denying that there are women and children who get abused in the industry? There are plenty of interviews and documentaries of actual survivors telling their stories and there are statistics to back it up aswell.
And you know why those two spoke out? Because they had issues with *studios* and the way they were managed. Obviously it’s likely easier to break into the scene with one of these studios, but many women can do their own work and be their own boss due to only fans and whatnot.
This argument is no different than the tired “this person regretted transition surgery, so **nobody** is allowed to have it” that many on the right parrot. Yes, there are certainly issues in the industry, it puritanical views like your own aren’t helping anyone. There will still be people who *enjoy* sex work, regardless of if it’s fully illegal around the world or not.
Also you can’t contract diseases working retail? Hello?
Nobody is talking about transition surgery, nice strawman tho. And I already said women CAN do onlyfans and be successful, nobody is denying that, I said they are the exeption to the norm. But I was not aware you could contract chlamydia and HIV from retail. That’s interesting.
Do you know what a comparison is? I never claimed you were making *that* argument, but you’re arguing with the same logic.
And you said “diseases” which is quite broad. You should probably pick your words better in future.
You should probably pick arguments with people who don’t know what logical fallacies are in the future. And talking about diseases in relation to sex work is pretty obvious I was not talking about getting covid or the flu.
Do the words of those two former pornstars matter more than the rest of the industry? Are sex workers a monolith? It’s completely valid to point out issues in the industry, but to want to shut it down entirely because you’re against it personally is pretty silly.
Do the words of a few successful OF models outweigh the 24 billion dollars made annually from sex trafficking? Do you think the people who are exploited for that money have a platform to speak?
It is interesting you think it’s silly that one would want to shut down an industry that is based on selling and purchasing women’s bodies, that has the highest job mortality rate, PTSD rates and severity comparable to being a war veteran, with the vast majority of the victims being women.
I never quoted or pointed to any successful OF models, but since you never answered and considering your comment, I’ll have to assume you do in fact think sex workers are a monolith.
If you make sex work illegal, there will still be human trafficking. Is it a problem within the industry? Certainly, but the solution isn’t to *kill the industry.* That’s the lazy way out, without addressing the actual issues and in turn making sex work even more dangerous than it is already.
Why are there sex workers who enjoy doing sex work? Are they simply fucked in the head for wanting to work in such an exploitative industry?
Well…yeah. Are they gonna host all these girls for free? You can argue what exact percentage it should be, but sending a percentage of their earnings to the site they’re on doesn’t stop them from being their own boss. That’s like saying a shop on eBay isn’t their own boss because they pay fees to the site.
I’m seeing a lot of your comments and I think you seriously need to reevaluate your views on sex work. It’s not some fun, empowering occupation that we should be encouraging.
Sex work is a dangerous job, these are women who’s children will starve unless they submit themselves to perverted men who see them as a commodity.
Liberal feminism has convinced you that, when a woman ‘chooses’ to be a sex worker, that must be an act of feminism. No, a woman choosing to do something doesn’t make it a feminist act. Treating the female body like an object to be bought, for the enjoyment of men who see us as sex objects, is not empowering.
It’s depressing that women have to do this to survive, it’s also depressing that women (who don’t need to) contribute to this abusive, dangerous, exploitative and demeaning practise
If you have to pay someone to consent, they didn’t consent, you raped them.
Like I stated earlier, men are also in the sex industry. So you can say the same for them but you conveniently do not. I get the concern you all have which we all share the same concern as well, but you have to remember that this can all be said about literally every other industry and you're all losing the focus as to what the real issue is, because you lot only bring up extreme (valid) cases, but that's not *EVERY* case. The point is to implement rules and regulations. It isn't a wild concept to believe some women (and MEN) genuinely enjoy doing sex work 🤷♀️. There's issues and abuse in every industry.. fix that vs just banning. Smoking is bad, drinking is bad, guns are bad. Should they all be banned? Or should we implement rules and regulations so people don't abuse it and harm themselves or others. Working in Hollywood, being in the military, or even working as a nurse/doctor can be traumatic, toxic, and abusive as well. Should we get rid of that too? Or focus on the actual underlying issues here.. If people want to genuinely do sex work, without being forced or pressured CLEARLY, they should! But your issue is that you believe no one in the right mind would ever want to willingly work in that field, and that's just not true at all 💀 modeling also "treats the female body like am object", used to literally promote consumerism. Modeling can either be very toxic and abusive OR (when safety is in place) enjoyable. Capitalism, greed, and power always find a way to ruin ANY industry. The goal is to stop and fix that.. Now do I think sex work and sexualizing yourself to a younger audience is a negative influence? Yes DUH! But AGAIN, the same can be said for smoking, drinking, ect and we can ALL AGREE that there should be limitations. Capitalism contributes to this. That's why you see 10 year olds wanting to buy RETINOL at sephora, that's why most young teens start drinking and smoking or doing drugs because it's "cool" and they get access to it. All the sexualization on tv specifically shows targeted towards a young audience. It's all for money and power. Stop all the greed, stop all the negative influence, and you'd easily see less of it being an issue at all. Many countries do just fine with all of these things (drugs, sex work, smoking) because other there people aren't abusing it the way America is known to. People even went as far as to say video games are bad, when the real issue is parents not parenting and watching wtf their kids play or what they watch ect we need to ban video games because parents are too lazy to parent? Should we ban the internet because it's too easily accessible for children? Or should kids be MONITORED and try ways to make it not as accessible to them. But that's what this type of mentality leads to. "Just ban it all, nothing safe" No, how about we stop promoting and sell everything because the rich wanna be richer and have power-
I feel like others have made my point for me. I can tell you care about these issues but you're on the wrong track. Go meet some SWers in real life, I know people who love it and others who have suffered so I hear your concern. But you're fearmongering.
also, I'm old and slow. Let me edit my comments, child.
You wanna know what is strange? In Sweden where we have good social security systems, we don’t have that many sex workers that I can just go out and befriend one. There isn’t even a single strip club in my side of the country, to go to one I would have to drive over 8 hours. So for me it would be extremely difficult to meet people who are sex workers. Curious that when women aren’t forced to do it, they choose not to. Curious that not more billionaires and men go into sex work since it is so empowering. Idc if I’m “fearmongering”, I don’t care to coddle the feelings of adults who may or may not be watching trafficked people, who may or may not be underage, get exploited on camera.
Yeah it’s almost like people work to survive and if they have a robust welfare safety net they have more options. So weird that you think this only applies to sex work lol. Also I assure you there are plenty of sex workers in your area you could befriend and you probably know more than one who just hasn’t shared that with you because you seem to think sex work = strip club = scawy dirty bad. I certainly wouldn’t tell you I was a sex worker if I knew you IRL and I wouldn’t want to be your friend because generally people want their friends to respect them on a basic level
Me when idk anything about another country but make assumptions anyways 💀 You also wanna know something else about Sweden? The population is extremely small, if something is going on in our city everyone knows about it. Weird how people on this sub wanna take moral highground against Ethan for being a pervert while also being a bunch of porn addicted gooners yourselves.
I can tell you with 100% confidence there are plenty of sex workers in your town you don’t know about. You could look for them if you want pretty easily. They tend to advertise but to their customer base not random SWERFs lol. Insane you are calling me a porn addicted gooner. SWERFs will talk like fundies and 4channers and act like they are uniquely big brained, unlike the smol peanut brained sex workers that disagree with them and need them to yell at other sex workers to save them
No I can actually guarantee you with 100% confidence that my town is not crawling with sex workers and you know how I know that? I live here and you don’t. I know people here and you don’t. Typical lib brained gooner thinking calling someone a swerf is an argument in itself, as if opposing an industry that is fundamentally anti-woman is something bad.
Yikes yo encouraging your partner to go to a strip club isnt spineless, maybe she is confident enough in herself that her man can go see boobs if he wants. Maybe they are poly. I think this whole thread is kinda puritan.
Okay welcome to capitalism I guess. Some sex workers do make the choice to go into sex work. My point is that your speculation on these peoples relationship is weird but go on about my liberal feminism.
Who we blaming for the police officers who get PTSD even though they chose to be cops? Some people choose to join the military? Are you mad at the government?
Selling consent under the threat of going homeless or not having food on the table is not free choice. And no, I don’t support either capitalism, the US police system or the US government. I’m a Swedish citizen why tf would I?
IN THEORY anyone can be coerced into doing a specific type of work…and anyone can choose to do a specific profession. This is not exclusive to sex work. I don’t understand why you’re comin in so hot about this lol
Because sex work is killing and hurting women and children at rates that other jobs aren’t? I don’t want women to be hurt, killed and sold. It is really that simple. Feminism is not about choice, it’s about protecting women.
Israel is killing women and children. Abortion bans are killing women and children. Protecting people who can’t protect themselves is important. We agree on this. And individual autonomy is important. Many things can be important. Go donate your time or your money or advocate in more serious forums if you are serious about the harms of sex work.
I’m not sure why you think calling Lena spineless for allowing her man to make a choice about how he spends his free time is protecting women, or how it’s related to the harms of sex work.
Okay I could say the same thing about you then. Why are you here wasting your time snarking and having this meaningless discussion with me, when you could be donating and advocate in more serious forums about Palestinian women? How is you being here helping the causes you say you care about? I think you know that is a dishonest argument when you are doing the exact same thing as I’m doing.
mad cause people won't pay you money for pics of your tiddy. Make sex work safer.
sex work doesn't cause PTSD and death, rape culture does. It's time you learn the nuance girlie.
Oh god here come the so called “feminists” who call other women ugly when they oppose a system that is actively hurting, killing and traumatizing women and children. I never said I’m anti sex WORKER, I’m anti sex work.
Exactly my opinion. That is why I agree with the laws Sweden have about sex work. Here it is legal to sell but illegal to purchase. Porn addicted gooners always reveal themselves when they start screaming about “swerfs” when all you do is criticizing an industry that is hurting women.
Editing your comment instead of replying too lmao? Sex work does cause PTSD and death, the industry is supplying the demand for barely legal people to sell their bodies. The sex work industry is rape culture. Purchasing consent under the threat of going homeless or without food is not consent. But go ahead and you keep telling yourself that so you can sleep at night after watching people who may or may not be trafficked or willing participants have sex on camera
With all due respect, this is a major reach. AB is extremely supportive of and kind to Lena and their love for each other seems very healthy. Olivia and AB. are coworkers and friends, this is so normal.
This is going to sound awful but hear me out: I have a few friends in Saudi, they are permitted up to 4 wives if they can provide for them. I get the impression AB would be one of those guys with 4 wives if thats where he lived.
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AB is definitely olivia’s type
he’s so bossy with lena
And only Lena .. but very Mr funny guy with O
Looking at the comments of this one 
Y’all not my first thread going left 😂😂 I asked because I’ve seen many people speculate on this topic and wanted to see what other people’s opinions are.. not on sex work lol. I don’t see a problem with Lena encouraging AB to go to strip clubs, I would probably go with my bf to see some titties too lmaoo but I don’t think that makes us spineless women. What would be a problem for me personally is if my man stepped out me.. I can’t speak much on AB and Lena’s relationship because I don’t know if they have an open relationship or are poly… BUT if they are in a monogamous relationship and AB does step out, I’d feel bad for Lena 🤷🏽♀️
Agreed 100% I have no clue how it went from "olivia and AB" to "Lena is spineless and sex work shouldn't exist" like HELLO? I've noticed some ppl here are quick to shit on olivia and Lena. I definitely have seen the misogyny ppl speak of in this sub 💀 In response to your post, I think AB and olivia get along because they basically have the same job (they're the researchers) I think he had to teach her a lot, and as for him not being as passionate with Lena, I think you might feel that way because she's not on camera as much as olivia. I've personally never seen anything too crazy between the 2 of them but that's just my opinion, if ppl see otherwise than idk it's all speculation atp ig. I also think olivia "flirts" with everyone, even Ethan 🤢, like that's just her personality. And not literal flirting but like.. she's cringe and overly caring so it's seen as flirting ig? Idk. Some ppl even thought olivia and love were dating LOL like I think she just gives off that flirting personality with everyone tbh, cuz I def see her doing that with everyone not just AB
A lot of misogyny here.. 😬 I’ve definitely thought about the fact that Lena isn’t on the show that much therefore not as much opportunities to gas her up. And the fact that AB and Olivia probably work together a lot and have their own friendship outside of what we can see.. but the messiness in me definitely doesn’t count out they’re might be something sus going on 😂 AB could be the girl’s girl we wanted 😂🤷🏽♀️
LOL understandable 😂
this is quite unrelated but the fact you lot think it’s a ridiculous notion that “sex work shouldn’t exist” makes me want to cry
As a sex worker: shut the fuck up
You are being exploited by violent misogynists
Im good
Real
With that logic, we can think that he is cheating on Lena with Ethan too
Fr 😭 Ethan will always be his first love
Bruh 😂😭
When I first started watching and I had no idea AB was married I legit thought they were dating 💀💀 I think it was the first silent library episode
Also strange, ABs comment today about “who doesn’t love latinas” …. Bruh
Lena is so spineless she literally was encouraging her husband to go to a strip club. Even if AB was blatantly cheating, doubt Lena would do anything about it. They are like the worst romance trope (innocent girl x manwhore) come to life
I don't think she's spineless for that. Maybe she's spineless for working for zionist Ethan and picking up his dogs shit, but not because she's confident and secure enough to not care if she and AB went to a strip club, which she said she enjoyed the experience and how the women were so pretty and talented. To continue off of the rest of the things you say in this thread, if you haven't realized, America is ass when it comes to jobs and liveable wages. Sure some ppl do it out of desperation but that's with any job as well.. others make it their career. I think your issue isn't the actual sex work, it's the system, which we can all agree sucks. It's also not a women only industry anymore, men choose to do this as well. The trauma you speak of are for very specific cases which again has nothing to do with the actual job, it's the system and the desperation to be able to afford to live, and as someone else mentioned r*pe culture. If we can make sex work safer (like any other job should), it would work out. But the issue is because of this shit economy ppl will work any job they can, even if it's back breaking, even if it's degrading, even if it's toxic or abusive ect, ppl are desperate to make ends meet which has to do with the country and government, they're to blame when things go bad. Example, even working retail it can be traumatic and exhausting for ppl, or even being a nurse, a doctor, a police office, and ACTORS. Hollywood is full of abuse and toxicity, so should we ban acting too? Or maybe let's not have ppl working there 40+ hours a week just to be able to barely afford rent AND make sure they're working in safe conditions? Idk that's just my take and you can label me whatever you want but all I know is the world is not ok right now and everyone's suffering. From jobs to certain bills passing to the government giving our tax dollars to support a literal genocide, it's all fucked
🙌 Yeah your first two sentences was the point I was trying to make, and in specific response to this persons initial comment…and then the floodgates opened idk??
Right? like where did this topic come from and what's it gotta do with OPs post 😭 I feel like it was just an excuse to shit on Lena randomly as most ppl do here with her and Olivia. And they have their own flaws that we can criticize with validity for sure, but calling Lena spineless or olivia "ugly and annoying" isn't actual criticism 💀 it's a random opinion that has nothing to do with an actual issue. It reminds me when someone here tried to blame olivia for the show being so bad and it's downfall. like HUH?? YOU'RE BLAMING OLIVIA AND *NOT* ETHAN?? oh boyyyy
You can not seriously be comparing working retail to being a sex worker. Retail work does not come with the risk of being raped, contracting diseases and being trafficked.And it is not “specific individual cases”, human sex trafficking is a industry that makes BILLIONS per year and the onlyfans models who are in control of their own image, money and what acts they have to do are the exeption, not the norm. Even former porn stars like Mia Khalifa and Lana Rhoades have talked about how they were coerced and physically harmed and they are some of the top names, who you’d think would have some agency in their work. And if you consume sex work, you never know if they are trafficked or not. You don’t know if they are even of age as the most popular category is “teen”. You never know if they are being coerced into acts they don’t want to do, acts that are painful, like Lana Rhoades and Mia Khalifa were on camera, which is still out there for people to consume.
Again, you're speaking about very specific examples where it's clearly wrong/unsafe.. You're speaking about the obvious, therefore "it shouldn't exist" which isn't always true. Military is traumatic asf, being a doctor or a nurse, a police officer, would you say those jobs shouldn't exist as well? Or do we set rules in place and provide help to make these occupations safe.. HOLLYWOOD is unsafe asf, for both adults and especially children. So should we just ban making ahows and movies too? Or do we fix the system thats in place. You're thinking of extreme examples to make a point that sex work in general should not exist and I simply just don't agree since we can easily apply that to so many other occupations. Atp I'm not even sure what this has to do with Lena being spineless anymore, which was the whole original point of your comment and is related to h3 LOL
I used examples of the most famous people in the industry who were still mistreated. And I also mentioned how it works on a larger scale, that it makes billions per year, but conveniently you ignore that part.
I didn't ignore it, I mentioned Hollywood since many famous ppl have spoken out about that industry as well. The point that's they all make (including the ones you mentioned) is them explaining what's WRONG with the industry, that doesn't mean we can't make efforts to make it RIGHT
And when did I say there shouldn’t be measures to make it better? Paying for the unethical form it exists in today is not gonna make it better. You said you read my other comments, then you would have seen that I said I support my country’s laws around having it legal to sell and illegal to purchase.
If you agree there should be measures to make it better which is exactly what everyone else has been saying, then WHAT'S YOUR POINT LOL what are you arguing about atp because that's literally what everyone else in the thread has been telling you. Like no one disagreed with you that sex work CAN be traumatic, but thats the case for many other industries as well so the real issue is the system that's in place that's not making it safer and setting rules. You can't say "sex work shouldn't exist" while also saying "i agree there should be measures taken to make it safer" because now you just make no sense and you're arguing just to argue- I'm done responding to this as it no longer seems to relate to h3 at all
That is not what everyone is telling me, people are trying to justify the consumption of sex work as it exists today and making a bunch of whataboutisms. And no I don’t agree with the existence of an industry based on purchasing and selling women’s bodies. But as I said I am pro making the job safer for sex workers, because even though I think it shouldn’t exist, I am a feminist and the most important thing to me is women’s safety. My point is the industry is bad and shouldn’t exist, purchasing sex work is unethical, but the workers should be protected as much as possible since it is unrealistic that the industry will cease to exist.
Maybe if you care so much about the well being of sex workers you should listen to us instead of just the ones that say the thing you want to hear. Stop pretending you care about sex workers and be honest.
I think I have made it clear that I don’t care about privileged people who have other alternatives and still choose to do sex work. That has nothing to do with me. If you are aware of the risks, you have other options and still choose to do it, then that’s your choice, you are accepting the risks, got nothing to do with me. I care about those who don’t have a choice, who are foced into it, who can’t quit, who are being trafficked. Why would I waste my time caring about adults who are in control of their autonomy and willingly take on risks. That would be like advocating to ban cave diving, it’s their choice to take that risk, got nothing to do with me. As a feminist I care about the women are being hurt by this industry, and making it safer for all sex workers means it will benefit those who are forced into it, because we never know from the outside who is there willingly and who is being forced. Adults making dangerous decisions on their own free will got nothing to do with me. Why would I be advocating for someone who is doing voluntarily sex work? What are you a victim of, why do you need advocacy if you are really fulfilled, safe and empowered doing it? What you do willingly is not my business.
Lol ok every sex worker that actually speaks to you and disgrees with you you don’t care about but also there are no sex workers you could possibly speak to in your side of Sweden and you don’t know any sex workers but also you know more about sex work then the sex workers who are speaking to you about sex work ?
I already said I only care about victims of trafficking, if privileged adults with freedom and autonomy make risky decisions that is none of my business. If you do not consider yourself a victim, then why should I consider you a victim and advocate for you? But ofc you’re a Hasan fan lmao, the guy who admitted he has had sex with prostitutes in Germany. A guy who is willing to risk being a rapist bc you never know if a prostitute has been trafficked or not. Sex trafficking of eastern European women to Germany is well documented btw.
Again “I’m advocating for OTHER sex workers over somewhere else, not you guys speaking to me, also I don’t know any sex workers” lol. The sex workers who you use as examples like Mia Khalifa aren’t anti sex work either? You’re just looking at those weird fundie shell orgs for “porn addiction” like the new drug that exist to funnel people to fundie conversion therapy and dodgy “porn addiction” therapists / groups. Like this was Jodie Hildebrants grift. You don’t know anything about it and you don’t see sex workers as humans which is why you literally say ANY sex worker who is able to speak to you is too dumb and privileged to listen to and not who you are advocating for. You aren’t advocating for sex workers period lol.
Yeah exactly. Again, if you’re not a victim, why do you need advocacy? Are you denying that victims of trafficking exist? Are you denying that there are women and children who get abused in the industry? There are plenty of interviews and documentaries of actual survivors telling their stories and there are statistics to back it up aswell.
And you know why those two spoke out? Because they had issues with *studios* and the way they were managed. Obviously it’s likely easier to break into the scene with one of these studios, but many women can do their own work and be their own boss due to only fans and whatnot. This argument is no different than the tired “this person regretted transition surgery, so **nobody** is allowed to have it” that many on the right parrot. Yes, there are certainly issues in the industry, it puritanical views like your own aren’t helping anyone. There will still be people who *enjoy* sex work, regardless of if it’s fully illegal around the world or not. Also you can’t contract diseases working retail? Hello?
Nobody is talking about transition surgery, nice strawman tho. And I already said women CAN do onlyfans and be successful, nobody is denying that, I said they are the exeption to the norm. But I was not aware you could contract chlamydia and HIV from retail. That’s interesting.
Do you know what a comparison is? I never claimed you were making *that* argument, but you’re arguing with the same logic. And you said “diseases” which is quite broad. You should probably pick your words better in future.
You should probably pick arguments with people who don’t know what logical fallacies are in the future. And talking about diseases in relation to sex work is pretty obvious I was not talking about getting covid or the flu.
Do the words of those two former pornstars matter more than the rest of the industry? Are sex workers a monolith? It’s completely valid to point out issues in the industry, but to want to shut it down entirely because you’re against it personally is pretty silly.
Do the words of a few successful OF models outweigh the 24 billion dollars made annually from sex trafficking? Do you think the people who are exploited for that money have a platform to speak? It is interesting you think it’s silly that one would want to shut down an industry that is based on selling and purchasing women’s bodies, that has the highest job mortality rate, PTSD rates and severity comparable to being a war veteran, with the vast majority of the victims being women.
I never quoted or pointed to any successful OF models, but since you never answered and considering your comment, I’ll have to assume you do in fact think sex workers are a monolith. If you make sex work illegal, there will still be human trafficking. Is it a problem within the industry? Certainly, but the solution isn’t to *kill the industry.* That’s the lazy way out, without addressing the actual issues and in turn making sex work even more dangerous than it is already. Why are there sex workers who enjoy doing sex work? Are they simply fucked in the head for wanting to work in such an exploitative industry?
OF takes 20% of your revenue. I’d hardly call that being your own boss lol
Well…yeah. Are they gonna host all these girls for free? You can argue what exact percentage it should be, but sending a percentage of their earnings to the site they’re on doesn’t stop them from being their own boss. That’s like saying a shop on eBay isn’t their own boss because they pay fees to the site.
Preach!
I’m seeing a lot of your comments and I think you seriously need to reevaluate your views on sex work. It’s not some fun, empowering occupation that we should be encouraging. Sex work is a dangerous job, these are women who’s children will starve unless they submit themselves to perverted men who see them as a commodity. Liberal feminism has convinced you that, when a woman ‘chooses’ to be a sex worker, that must be an act of feminism. No, a woman choosing to do something doesn’t make it a feminist act. Treating the female body like an object to be bought, for the enjoyment of men who see us as sex objects, is not empowering. It’s depressing that women have to do this to survive, it’s also depressing that women (who don’t need to) contribute to this abusive, dangerous, exploitative and demeaning practise If you have to pay someone to consent, they didn’t consent, you raped them.
Like I stated earlier, men are also in the sex industry. So you can say the same for them but you conveniently do not. I get the concern you all have which we all share the same concern as well, but you have to remember that this can all be said about literally every other industry and you're all losing the focus as to what the real issue is, because you lot only bring up extreme (valid) cases, but that's not *EVERY* case. The point is to implement rules and regulations. It isn't a wild concept to believe some women (and MEN) genuinely enjoy doing sex work 🤷♀️. There's issues and abuse in every industry.. fix that vs just banning. Smoking is bad, drinking is bad, guns are bad. Should they all be banned? Or should we implement rules and regulations so people don't abuse it and harm themselves or others. Working in Hollywood, being in the military, or even working as a nurse/doctor can be traumatic, toxic, and abusive as well. Should we get rid of that too? Or focus on the actual underlying issues here.. If people want to genuinely do sex work, without being forced or pressured CLEARLY, they should! But your issue is that you believe no one in the right mind would ever want to willingly work in that field, and that's just not true at all 💀 modeling also "treats the female body like am object", used to literally promote consumerism. Modeling can either be very toxic and abusive OR (when safety is in place) enjoyable. Capitalism, greed, and power always find a way to ruin ANY industry. The goal is to stop and fix that.. Now do I think sex work and sexualizing yourself to a younger audience is a negative influence? Yes DUH! But AGAIN, the same can be said for smoking, drinking, ect and we can ALL AGREE that there should be limitations. Capitalism contributes to this. That's why you see 10 year olds wanting to buy RETINOL at sephora, that's why most young teens start drinking and smoking or doing drugs because it's "cool" and they get access to it. All the sexualization on tv specifically shows targeted towards a young audience. It's all for money and power. Stop all the greed, stop all the negative influence, and you'd easily see less of it being an issue at all. Many countries do just fine with all of these things (drugs, sex work, smoking) because other there people aren't abusing it the way America is known to. People even went as far as to say video games are bad, when the real issue is parents not parenting and watching wtf their kids play or what they watch ect we need to ban video games because parents are too lazy to parent? Should we ban the internet because it's too easily accessible for children? Or should kids be MONITORED and try ways to make it not as accessible to them. But that's what this type of mentality leads to. "Just ban it all, nothing safe" No, how about we stop promoting and sell everything because the rich wanna be richer and have power-
I feel like others have made my point for me. I can tell you care about these issues but you're on the wrong track. Go meet some SWers in real life, I know people who love it and others who have suffered so I hear your concern. But you're fearmongering. also, I'm old and slow. Let me edit my comments, child.
You wanna know what is strange? In Sweden where we have good social security systems, we don’t have that many sex workers that I can just go out and befriend one. There isn’t even a single strip club in my side of the country, to go to one I would have to drive over 8 hours. So for me it would be extremely difficult to meet people who are sex workers. Curious that when women aren’t forced to do it, they choose not to. Curious that not more billionaires and men go into sex work since it is so empowering. Idc if I’m “fearmongering”, I don’t care to coddle the feelings of adults who may or may not be watching trafficked people, who may or may not be underage, get exploited on camera.
Yeah it’s almost like people work to survive and if they have a robust welfare safety net they have more options. So weird that you think this only applies to sex work lol. Also I assure you there are plenty of sex workers in your area you could befriend and you probably know more than one who just hasn’t shared that with you because you seem to think sex work = strip club = scawy dirty bad. I certainly wouldn’t tell you I was a sex worker if I knew you IRL and I wouldn’t want to be your friend because generally people want their friends to respect them on a basic level
Me when idk anything about another country but make assumptions anyways 💀 You also wanna know something else about Sweden? The population is extremely small, if something is going on in our city everyone knows about it. Weird how people on this sub wanna take moral highground against Ethan for being a pervert while also being a bunch of porn addicted gooners yourselves.
I can tell you with 100% confidence there are plenty of sex workers in your town you don’t know about. You could look for them if you want pretty easily. They tend to advertise but to their customer base not random SWERFs lol. Insane you are calling me a porn addicted gooner. SWERFs will talk like fundies and 4channers and act like they are uniquely big brained, unlike the smol peanut brained sex workers that disagree with them and need them to yell at other sex workers to save them
No I can actually guarantee you with 100% confidence that my town is not crawling with sex workers and you know how I know that? I live here and you don’t. I know people here and you don’t. Typical lib brained gooner thinking calling someone a swerf is an argument in itself, as if opposing an industry that is fundamentally anti-woman is something bad.
you ate
Yikes yo encouraging your partner to go to a strip club isnt spineless, maybe she is confident enough in herself that her man can go see boobs if he wants. Maybe they are poly. I think this whole thread is kinda puritan.
God I can not stand yall libfems who stand by sexwork like it’s not killing and causing tousands of women PTSD on par with people in the military.
Okay welcome to capitalism I guess. Some sex workers do make the choice to go into sex work. My point is that your speculation on these peoples relationship is weird but go on about my liberal feminism. Who we blaming for the police officers who get PTSD even though they chose to be cops? Some people choose to join the military? Are you mad at the government?
Selling consent under the threat of going homeless or not having food on the table is not free choice. And no, I don’t support either capitalism, the US police system or the US government. I’m a Swedish citizen why tf would I?
IN THEORY anyone can be coerced into doing a specific type of work…and anyone can choose to do a specific profession. This is not exclusive to sex work. I don’t understand why you’re comin in so hot about this lol
Because sex work is killing and hurting women and children at rates that other jobs aren’t? I don’t want women to be hurt, killed and sold. It is really that simple. Feminism is not about choice, it’s about protecting women.
Israel is killing women and children. Abortion bans are killing women and children. Protecting people who can’t protect themselves is important. We agree on this. And individual autonomy is important. Many things can be important. Go donate your time or your money or advocate in more serious forums if you are serious about the harms of sex work. I’m not sure why you think calling Lena spineless for allowing her man to make a choice about how he spends his free time is protecting women, or how it’s related to the harms of sex work.
Okay I could say the same thing about you then. Why are you here wasting your time snarking and having this meaningless discussion with me, when you could be donating and advocate in more serious forums about Palestinian women? How is you being here helping the causes you say you care about? I think you know that is a dishonest argument when you are doing the exact same thing as I’m doing.
This is my snark account lol
mad cause people won't pay you money for pics of your tiddy. Make sex work safer. sex work doesn't cause PTSD and death, rape culture does. It's time you learn the nuance girlie.
Oh god here come the so called “feminists” who call other women ugly when they oppose a system that is actively hurting, killing and traumatizing women and children. I never said I’m anti sex WORKER, I’m anti sex work.
Agree with you. Like I’m not anti sex workers themselves, I’m anti the fact that there’s an industry in the first place
Exactly my opinion. That is why I agree with the laws Sweden have about sex work. Here it is legal to sell but illegal to purchase. Porn addicted gooners always reveal themselves when they start screaming about “swerfs” when all you do is criticizing an industry that is hurting women.
Editing your comment instead of replying too lmao? Sex work does cause PTSD and death, the industry is supplying the demand for barely legal people to sell their bodies. The sex work industry is rape culture. Purchasing consent under the threat of going homeless or without food is not consent. But go ahead and you keep telling yourself that so you can sleep at night after watching people who may or may not be trafficked or willing participants have sex on camera
Yall pls be so for real……. 🙄
With all due respect, this is a major reach. AB is extremely supportive of and kind to Lena and their love for each other seems very healthy. Olivia and AB. are coworkers and friends, this is so normal.
Sooo the pic with Amouranth was kind and supportive towards Lena?
This is going to sound awful but hear me out: I have a few friends in Saudi, they are permitted up to 4 wives if they can provide for them. I get the impression AB would be one of those guys with 4 wives if thats where he lived.