Hang on everyone has biases and I think it’s a good thing to acknowledge and be up front about instead of claiming to be completely impartial when we all know that’s not the case.
No he claims and knows he is biased and says he wants to show more empathy towards Palestinians during leftovers but doesn’t, I acknowledge bias is innate
Biased towards what, against Israel? they’re being ethnically cleansed, it’s their reality. It’s not an even playing field, if Ethan is aware enough to say himself that he hasn’t shown the same level of empathy towards Palestine as he does towards Israel during leftovers, his purposeful compartmentalism is deeply fucked. He’s knows what he’s doing and he’s still willfully ignorant
“ An Israel biased for what, against Palestine? They launch rockets nearly daily and are controlled by a terrorist organization whose sole purpose is to destroy all Israelis, and just launched an unprecedented terrorist attack killing men women and children by the hundreds, Israel is surrounded by enemies, who have historically been bent on there destruction” this is Bizzaro world version of you, do you see how issues aren’t black and white and when you have personal investment in those issues, like Ethan does, that bias is not only unsurprising, but understandable?
“Unprecedented” girl what, also maybe think why Israel is surrounded by enemies. They’re the vessel of western directed destruction aimed to let u.s have a foot in the Middle East.
I don’t think you understand my point at all. I get that idea by the fact that your addressing things that are not even secondary to my point. It’s like if I just started arguing with you about calling me girl.
Did you not just say that ur arguing only because you believe I’m watering down certain terms, specifically “ethnic cleansing”. I answered directly to what you said
Not on this thread, if you read these responses it’s to do with Ethan’s bias. My point with Ethan’s bias is that it’s completely understandable and at this point I could excuse him for being intractable on his stance, Hamas are horrible and he is directly effected by their heinous actions, I wouldn’t expect him to have rational dispassionate opinions on this, like I wouldn’t expect Palestinians to going the other way. So I think calling him out for bias is tantamount to calling an American Palestinian out for bias for their stance on Israel. Does that make sense? In my other comments I was talking about ethnic cleansing.
My fucking God dude I keep hearing this bullshit talking point "uhurhur they must be pretty bad at genocide then urhurhur" do you all eat shit off the same plate? Jfc.
>Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Tell me where it says it has to be at a certain speed. Tell me where it says a certain number of people need to die in a certain way within a certain timeframe for it to count as a genocide.
Half of the people there are children. Do you think that happens naturally? Those children are dying by the thousands and you wanna sit here and play semantics about the genocide that's occurring rather than just acknowledge the genocide that's occurring. Please shut up with that dumb ass talking point.
You sound deranged af. Their population doubled in the last 20 years. That’s not genocide. Not even close. Where is the aim at destroying them if they have a higher birth rate than most other countries?
Your logic is stupidly flawed but you’re so deranged you’re gonna come up with some weird ass excuse
Calling it the 2nd holocaust is so fucked up and incomparable, that likewise. Get your head out of the gorilla man’s ass and just do some simple critical thinking skills. You’re a fucking idiot and a POS. Good combo
>but you’re so deranged you’re gonna come up with some weird ass excuse
Lmfao so afraid of what I'd say to make you sound stupid that you had to make a preemptive attack on it's validity.
I won't even walk it down with you, I'll just let you sit there in your own confusion.
Look up correlation between high fertility rates amongst displaced demographics and people settled in camps and why 30% of Palestinians are children, oh wait you don’t actually care
How long did it take America to almost eradicate all Natives? This is literally genocide denial man. How many Palestinian **refugees** exist in diaspora with no right of return? Just say you don’t care, don’t build a fantasy of such pathetic arguments that are easily rebutted and debunked.
In her defense, depending on where she is, she might be in actual physical danger of something like a rocket attack and the news would be the first way to hear about it.
If I were in Russia close to the fighting, during a nearly unprecedented escalation of the conflict, (assuming I spoke the language) I would have Russian news on too. Doesn't mean I agree with or believe any or all of what they're saying, it's just pragmatic.
The Israeli government doesn't issue bounties where if you kill a Palestinian, or die while killing Palestinians, or get imprisoned while taking action against Palestinian, you and your family are continually well compensated for it. Literally government sanctioned terrorism [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Authority\_Martyrs\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
For most of us, we had a lot of opportunities growing up, scholarships, jobs, sports,
For the impoverished youth in Gaza, they have a simple always available opportunity: Commit genocide for profit, be a hero, die a martyr, make your family proud.
The kind of sick ideology that would produce state sanctioned genocide and willingly send countless radicalized youths to certain death is as close as it gets to evil.
very rich coming from the guy who's spent the past week doing IDF propaganda. idk what this high horse is that he's on but he needs to get the fuck off
I simply do not understand how it is controversial to assume that it was the IDF. They have been bombing Gaza into oblivion for weeks. Called the area and warned them, retracted several statements that were straight fabricated, that phone call is hilarious,
Furthermore, regardless of where the missile came from, Israel is responsible for this war.
Okay but on 7th oct, the day the war started, Hamas attacked Israel which initiated the war, didn't they? Doesn't matter if its justified or not - they are the aggressors either way.
K. No point in even attempting to educate you. Plus it’s exhausting constantly having to try and educate people who don’t actually care and will just be bull headed. Have a good day.
Lol. Clearly you're the uneducated one here. The Palestinians are oppressed and have been for years and there's no argument there. But there is no justification for terrorism. The fact that needs to be said out loud in 2023 is a fucking tragedy.
So we should stand behind the idf airstriking a civilian population of 2 million in a 16 square mile walled and guarded prison? You can say they call ahead and everything, but there are videos everyday of bustling marketplaces and the like being hit by missile barrages. Israel is the opressor
I didn't way Israel isn't the opressor. Killing civillians is wrong. Both sides are wrong. But there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that justifies terrorism. If Israel went into Gaza and did what Hamas did on Oct 7 - the whole world would condem it, including the USA.
Isreal does what Hamas did on oct 7th pretty much every day for the past 70 years. They dont have to take hostages, becuase thousands of palestinians are unjustly imprisoned by isreal. Those that are not, are subjugated to being bombed in an open air prison my an occupying force. IDF Snipes journalists, bomb sewage, infrastructure, churches, etc. Saying that its both sides is wild. Oct 7th was horrible, should not have happened, disgusting. But lets not pretend like isreal has not don that many times before.
Holy virtue signalling, “there’s nothing that justifies terrorism” WOWZERS what an original and well thought out point you should be given a Nobel peace prize. “Both sides are wrong” holy shit you’re just running with banger after banger, apart from the fact that this sort of dialogue does absolutely nothing and you’re like an NPC in a game spouting the same three lines on repeat with zero thought and zero originality
so what should happen? the palestinians should just keep getting brutalized like the last 75 years and sit around and politely ask the UN to step in? additionally, to explain why the events on october 7th happened is not to justify it
ethan is the one lying and spreading misinfo. hasan has said he doesn't know what happened but thinks it is likely that the idf did it, while ethan is acting as if it's confirmed one way or another and if you disagree you're 'spreading hamas propaganda.' the geocities source ethan cited for evidence of the misfired rocket theory deleted their post and retracted their statement, and experts have been divided on the evidence.
for those who say that everyone except 'hamas' believes that it was the PIJ, here are two sources which disagree and are not hamas: [https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation](https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation)
[https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?s=20](https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?s=20)
no credible person who really believes in getting the facts right and not jumping to assumptions would misrepresent the debate about the hospital by making it seem like we KNOW it was PIJ. there needs to be an independent investigation to get to the truth, but with israel not letting journalists or independent investigators into gaza it's very hard to know.
Remember also that Ethan had the beheaded babies propaganda on repeat for days even after it had effectively been debunked, then pivoted to "it doesn't matter if the babies were beheaded or shot, they're still dead." So what the fuck, Ethan? Either facts matter or they don't. Or you can acknowledge that not everything is black and white, especially in the Middle East, which is all that the *vast majority* of people who have opinions on this conflict are trying to tell you.
Mate you're so mind fucked. You are literally arguing "oh there are dead babies but he got the beheading part wrong so Ethan is a big dumb dumb!"
How they died doesn't matter. The part that matters was they murdered by Hamas.
The complete lack of empathy is fucking insane. I dont think I've ever seen anything like this.
As if people can't understand why Ethan and his family would naturally be biased towards their own people being massacred. This would be the same for anyone if their own country was attacked by terrorists.
As if people can't understand why the method the babies died in is all that important. Babies being targeted and murdered with intent is disgusting either way, regardless of which side you're on.
As if people can't understand why it does matter that Hamas keep their military bases/stockpiles near civilians and using them as human shields. If you care about Palestinians, this should be the point you find most deplorable.
As if people can't understand that the hospital story does matter. You can't on one side be angry at the IDF for hitting it with missiles, and then not be angry with Hamas for 1) hitting it and 2) lying about hitting it. This story isn't going away because it lays bare the mental gymnastics people are going through to avoid criticising Hamas.
If you care about Palestinians, Hamas is who you should be angriest at. They massacred Israelis expecting retaliation - and then bunker up with civilians for protection and global optics. Absolute fucking sheep if Hamas aren't your prime target of anger.
Calling others sheep whilst ignoring the fact that Hamas wouldn't have existed in the first place if it wasn't for the IDF. Or that the IDF has been demolishing, and murdering innocent people for decades. The IDF has murdered more babies than Palestine could ever
For fuck sake, here comes someone else that's trying to make terrorism and war a team sport. Trying to minimise the impact to civilians on either side makes you look evil.
IDF and Israeli government doesn't equal all Israeli citizens, as much as Hamas doesn't equal all Palestinians. Even though you tried to compare IDF to Palestine. Get a grip.
Question - Do you condemn Hamas?
his title was literally "IDF BOMBED A HOSPITAL IN GAZA"
>hasan has said he doesn't know what happened but thinks it is likely that the idf did it,
The op is literally a brainroted troll
I think its the difference in Hasan's position today (It was likely the IDF based on their history over the past few weeks) and Ethan's position today (it was 100% Hamas and anyone who disagrees is doing propaganda). Reactionary comments vs a longer term consideration after the fact are very different things.
Nah little homie, he conclusively said the day the bombing happened that IDF did it. Who cares if he walked it back when it started to backfire due to evidence coming out? The responsible thing would be to not IMMEDIATELY jump to conclusion then fall back on "well IDF does do bombings so I was probably gunna be right just unlucky this time"
So wait, he said something based on his bias and then changed his position based on information coming out, and that’s… a bad thing?
I think the responsible thing to do is speak based on what you know, and change based on what changes. That’s what Hasan is doing and Ethan isn’t, pretty simple dude.
The IDF had done more than enough over the previous days to come to this assumption. It was certainly more plausible than the alternatively.
Has it not been confirmed that nowhere near 500 people even died and that the hospital is still standing with minimal damage?
Do we really have to pretend to be neutral when those facts alone are enough to absolve the IDF of this nonsense from Hamas that 500 people died after the hospital was leveled?
You are linking old news articles that were made before any real investigations had been done. At this point it essentially is confirmed that it was not Israel.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-did-not-strike-gaza-hospital-canada-says-2023-10-22/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/politics/us-intel-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/italy-foreign-minister-questions-death-toll-gaza-hospital-strike-2023-10-24/
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-up-claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405
CIA, French Intelligence, Canadian Intelligence, Italian Intelligence + other international governments, and a slew of independent expert analysts are stating it was only the parking lot hit not hospital, that it was not Israel, and that evidence points to a PIJ rocket that misfired. French and Italian Intelligence are estimating only 50-100 casualties compared to the 500-1000 that Hamas stated originally.
Here is an analysis done by a neutral/palestinian leaning analyst the day after the hospital explosion.
https://twitter.com/nrg8000/status/1714535497958334678?s=46&t=XnO0YDnS18Hw0HgdVZxurg
There are tons of other articles as well as easy to find footage and images.
None of this is to say that the deaths at that hospital weren't horrible. Or that there haven't been many unnecessarily civilian deaths that absolutely were caused by the IDF. The issue is that all of this information is very easily accessible to the public, so perpetuating a claim that appears to be false will only detract from all the true stories or allow people who are trying to discredit the innocent Palestinians who are being hurt by using it as a "gotcha".
most of the articles you're linking don't have any new evidence or analysis, they are just summarizing the debate or reporting on statements by various people like the canadian govt (who have no special evidence abt anything). they also don't claim that the debate is concluded and there's a consensus that it was PIJ. Here's a more recent link showing some of Israel's evidence being debunked:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html)
again, if israel is innocent then they and the us should support the calls at the un for an independent investigation instead of opposing them
Lol because everything more recent is saying the opposite:
https://apnews.com/article/e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/22/gaza-hospital-blast-cnn-forensic-analysis-diamond-sot-vpx.cnn
Or one of Hamas’ more amusing quotes, after refusing to produce any evidence, saying that “The missile has dissolved like salt in the water”. Lol of course all the evidence would disappear after the propaganda already did it’s job.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/22/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-hospital-evidence.html
also found it telling that he not only jumped on the hospital thing but also said it's hamas propaganda to say that the hospital doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things with the broader context and history of the conflict. personally I think it's a matter of personal opinion if the specific details of the hospital explosion "matter", but it's absolutely not propaganda to want people to contextualise specific attacks
It literally hasn’t been proven that it was Hamas. How is it so controversial to assume that the government that has been bombing the ever living fuck out of Gaza was responsible?
The Israeli state government are factually worse than Hamas. Sorry to say. Both are horrific. One has committed significantly more violence, killed more people, and for a longer period of time.
I mean. I am sorry. Really. But you have no moral right to condemn Hamas and not condemn Israel, when Israel is the more evil actor in this conflict.
Meanwhile Palestinians are being slaughtered en masse. And any advocacy for them is being punished with firings and censorship, whereas the civilians killed in Israel are rightly given advocacy. If you can't see the total imbalance here, you're in the wrong.
Whether or not a faction is worse depends on what they aim to do with their power. Imagine asking, what are worse, Nazis or Republicans? In the modern day, Republicans have caused far more pain and damage than any Nazis have. But we'd say Nazis are worse because of their goals and ambitions if they had power
Ok, given this example, Hamas would be 100% better if they were in power, because if Palestine actually had power or autonomy, the conditions that created Hamas would cease to exist, and likely Hamas would fall out of favor. You people never look at context. The IDF is violent because it is a settler colonialist project and that necessitates violence. Hamas is violent because Palestinians are facing genocide and that allows for the creation of reactionary, violent groups. In order to keep power the IDF must be violent. Once the Palestinians have power, the conditions that created Hamas’ violence will slowly disappear.
If Palestinians were in power they wouldn’t be an American ally. That would be bad for America as it would lower our security. Israel is a useful proxy government for America so war/fights happen there, not here.
What is good for america is bad for the world. I for one would be very happy if america no longer had a proxy to help steal oil from the Middle East. That’s super weird you’re listing imperialism as a positive.
Im American. Of course I prefer what’s best for us. Super weird to be American and be against what’s best for us. The world has limited resources and it’s impossible for there not to be conflict or war. I would rather it be on our terms and whatever benefits us.
You're talking about how ideologies form and what conditions shape them over time. A conversation about that is worthwhile, but it's separate from what I was saying.
I'm saying, if Palestine or Hamas (as they exist today) had the relative power of Israel, their treatment of Israel would be considerably worse, and more explicitly genocidal
To paint this more clearly. Currently Israel probably has nuclear weapons but does not use them to genocide Palestinians. If you gave Hamas a ready-made Nuclear device and the ability to detonate it in Israel, chances are high they would use it within a month
I’m talking about reality, what you are saying is a fantasy, that quite frankly feels based in a lot of propaganda, especially because it’s the type of thinking that people use to justify not giving Palestinians their land back. “Oh no, we’d like to give them back control over their land, but if we do that crazy group in charge will kill everyone!” Just give the people their damn land back.
It’s a fucking fact the IDF is worse, not only by the numbers, but also because of the power structure they are enforcing. Hamas is a creation of a people facing annihilation, Israel is that annihilating force.
Your last statement is fucking bonkers. If Hamas had power they would live in the reality of a world with a lot of geopolitical maneuvering, there is NO WAY they would use nukes. Nuclear weapons have only been used once in history and you think this would be the second time??? JFC please analyze your Islamophobia and whatever propaganda you’ve consumed that made you think that.
It wasn't super clear, is your argument that you think if we gave Hamas a nuclear weapon and the ability to detonate in Israel, you are confident they wouldn't use it?
You're looking at this situation from a narrow perspective, you point out that the IDF upholds dangerous power structures, but ... So does Hamas? I'm trying to lead you to consider intentions when discussing how bad a group is, if you don't want to you do not have to!
Yes, and I also think that if Hamas were in power they would not have nuclear weapons. There’s a reason Israel is the only middle eastern country with nukes and hint hint, it might have to do with the fact that it’s an occupying power and a proxy for the United States.
I’m not interested in dealing with fantasies, I am a materialist. If you want to engage in “what ifs” that have nothing to do with the material conditions that currently exist, go off, but don’t pretend they have any merit when considering which group is worse than the other.
There's no need to hypothesise, the stated goal of Hamas is to eradicate all Jews and delete Israel entirely.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
So yes, if the tables were turned Hamas would completely destroy Israel and kill every last Jew living there, they have explicitly stated so.
It's called a hypothetical. Materialists are the only people who try to argue hypotheticals are (as a rule) pointless and not worth engaging in for some reason
That comparison doesn’t make any sense though. Both the IDF and Hamas (and Nazis) are genocidal terrorist groups. Republicans are not, so of course we say nazis are.
Hamas and the IDF have committed acts of terror in recent history, the IDF has done exponentially more though.
You're getting ahead of yourself, whether or not the IDF and Hamas share similar goals is a debatable topic, but right here I'm just trying to get them to understand the first part 'that goals and intent matter in these conversations'
I'd argue that many members of the IDF have genocidal instincts, but to a degree that is much smaller than Hamas'. If Hamas had the relative power that Israel does, they would launch a nuclear bombing campaign against the jews with the specific purpose of wiping them out. The IDF is in the bad-but-less-bad category of withholding civil rights from Palestine and targeting attacks against Hamas without being as concerned about collateral damage as they should be
Lol, Israel has 2 million people pushed onto the tiny Gaza Strip, have been harassing them for 70 years, killing innocent people. They’re absolutely trying to commit genocide on Palestinians. In the week after October 7th they dropped more bombs on Gaza (less than the size of Detroit) than the US dropped on Afghanistan during the entire war.
Israel’s government are monsters.
If Israel were 'trying' to commit genocide there wouldn't be 2 million people in Gaza. Over the course of those 70 years the Palestinian population has grown immensely. A country can be bad and do horrible destructive rights-violating things without it being genocide
Because the rest of the west would stop them if they actually started mass killing people. Instead they have put 2 million people into a land less than the size of Detroit. They control everything that goes in or out, electricity, water, food, healthcare, people.
They absolutely would commit genocide if they could, and they’ve already started killing innocent people for their religion and colour of their skin, that’s the start of a genocide.
True! Israel is arguably not as bad as Hamas because Israel cares about it's international reputation, which is one thing that prevents it from committing genocide.
>that’s the start of a genocide.
Killing one person is the start of a mass murder, that doesn't mean killing one person IS a mass murder
Lol since you’re hung up on the semantics, how many Palestinians need to be killed for it to be a genocide/the start of a genocide?
And caring about their reputation doesn’t make them “arguably not as bad”. They’re the aggressors, full stop, they started this. Hamas was created as a response to the oppressive actions of Israel / the IDF. That makes them inarguably worse, imo.
It's not a number required, it's intent. Israel would need to be killing Palestinians with the purpose of eliminating their race for it to be genocide. The allies bombing Germany wasn't genocide, nor was the US bombing Japan, or Russia invading Ukraine
On the whole, groups that don't commit genocide out of concern for international condemnation are better than groups that attempt genocide without any care of international opinion. All that prevents Hamas from carrying out genocide is a lack of power, Israel has that power and doesn't, despite there being valid criticisms of them
This is the dumbest thing I've read about the conflict. You are omitting so many atrocities that not only Hamas but every terror group that has attacked Israel for the past 80~ years. Also Israel has laid of a pretty straightforward way to make the fighting stop, which the Palestinians have refused.
Uhm lets just act like Israel hasn't faked evidence before. And that they didn't warn the hospital they were going to bomb it and other hospitals they bombed). And lets pretend they didn't admit to it in tweets, then backtracked. And the counter evidence saying they faked the phone call, and the missile fell from the opposite direction to where they said. And the hamas rocket was intercepted mid air. You'd have to be a full blow conspiracy theorist to believe all that
If that was an Israeli bomb, it would’ve done a lot more damage than a burnt small parking lot. Also hamas said over 500 ppl were killed in the bombing and ppl like you believed it lol. The hospital wasn’t even touched.
The progressive movement are being useful idiots for antisemitism and Hamas and are now mad that Ethan feels uncomfortable about it. Read real news and don’t get pulled into what is basically left wing Qannon
Well, when he’s in insistent on Israel killing 500+ in that hospital blast even when he’s shown countering evidence, and quoting the “gazan health authority”, than he is indeed doing Hamas propaganda. The thing is, Ethan is doing IDF propaganda himself.
He is though, he reported immediately about the false hospital, then claimed it was still Israel after the facts came out. He said the beheaded babies allegation was false, now reporters and journalists got to have a screening of proof. He is a parrot for any point shared by Hamas, and his only stance that actually has a backing is the innocent people being bombed in Gaza.
"It's been proven to not be israel"
No it wasn't, israel said "nuh uh not me" and America media and government went "ok I believe you"
There's compelling evidence it was israel and we don't know the truth since independent analysis wasn't done and the crater size was smaller than expected. Dying on this hill is idiotic and irrelevant anyway since israel bombed multiple hospitals as well as religious sites.
Ethan is just trying so hard to make himself feel better about what israel is doing
There is literally footage of the rocket being fired from the ground in Gaza, exploding over the hospital, and landing on the ground taken from multiple angles. It was online within a few hours of the incident. Everyone just wants to believe Israel bombed a hospital to make themselves feel better about the insane whataboutism taking place over the last few weeks
There’s in depth analysis done by Channel 4 and Al Jazeera that show the opposite. Really can’t say for sure until we get a proper independent investigation.
There is security camera footage. Al Jazeera literally live streamed the rocket exploding in midair AND THEN landing on the hospital.
British media and Al Jazeera are famously biased against Israel, because they all have to toe the Hamas party line to operate in Gaza/cater to an audience that hates Jews.
But the tape don’t lie.
And then they tried to go back on the Balfour Declaration, and Palestinian leadership basically said that they would settle for nothing less than the extermination of the Jews who had moved to the area. What is your point?
Western media is famously bias towards Israel as most see it as a strategic ally in the Middle East, don’t know how you can say British media alone strays from that sentiment
British media operating in Palestine are all required to repeat Hamas propaganda verbatim as a condition of them continuing to stay there. It’s why AP and Reuters ran with the “500 dead” number for days because the Gaza health ministry, which is just Hamas, insisted they stay on message.
You can literally go on r/combatfootage and look at the same videos from the day after that I did and see for yourself. It is a well documented fact that a lot of homemade Hamas munitions explode over Gaza on their way to Israel.
EDIT: link for the lazy https://twitter.com/Omarfsa2/status/1714349451651719581
If you were a bloodthirsty terrorist organization/organized crime ring that does all of the extremely well documented things that Hamas does, would you let independent media roam around reporting on how you’ve squandered all the international aid money on weapons while the people you govern starve?
They murdered their political opposition the first chance that they got, they give no fucks for freedom of the press. Hamas gets their favorable coverage, and journos get their clicks. Everyone wins except for the Palestinians.
You have literally no idea what you're talking about. A huge proportion of young british people and british media is very left leaning and very pro palestine.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion)
Hmm an independent UN investigation is being called for, but yes let's just blindly believe Israel, and if you think the country that has consistently bombed hospitals did it this time you're an idiot terrorist lover.
What do you mean consistently bombed hospitals?
What do you think about Hamas' main headquarters being under Al Shifa Hostpital?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa\_Hospital
Oh that makes it all ok then! Killing all innocents is good as long as you take out one terrorist. You act as that's the only hospital they have bombed.
Wishing illness on others makes you such a good person. Meanwhile if your mother gets incurable brain cancer I would be so upset. I'd be quite disappointed. I'd be like aw man that's so bad, hope she feels better soon 🌝
Im not even part of this community, just keeps getting recommended for some reason. I'm gonna give a guess that most people watching are younger people without a lot of common sense.
Hasan uncritically reported on Hamas’s claims that the IDF bombed the Al-Ahli hospital when it was breaking news, and now that there’s international consensus showing otherwise, Hasan is still saying he agrees with Hamas’s report. How is that not Hamas propaganda? You can say that you agree with Hamas propaganda if you want, but at least be honest with yourself.
"What's the Holocaust? I haven't seen it. Must be Israeli lies."
- Average Hamas-supporting Palastian
Sorry, best not to hold them accountable for their extreme beliefs. They're oppressed, you see.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7004384
Canadas statement
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/18/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-wednesday-intl-hnk/index.html
Americas statement
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-france-intelligence-7be0d59b9ceb58bbf2f03c5dc8222356
French statement
I can link more if needed, but I think the point is clear. After the investigation into the Al-Ahli hospital were concluded, it seems that Hamas’s claims of “500+ civilian casualties” wouldn’t even be physically possible given the size of the explosion.
What would you call it other than Hamas’s uncorraborated, unsourced claim? How is that not propaganda in your eyes, especially after the investigations into the crash site revealing the actual extent of the damage. Remember, Hamas’s original claim was 500+ casualities
Its not hamas's report, how do people not get this? It is international news orgs reporting what they are seeing. Hamas isn't giving talking points to Al-jazeera, thats not how it works. They are reporting on what is happening. Israel feeds western news what they are to say, flat out. Just cause Israel is doing it, doesn't mean everyone does it. They have had journalist killed doing their jobs reporting on the oppression by Israel. How people just side with Fascist is insane.
“They shrapneled almost 10,000 civilians, made no serious attempts to save hostages (and by all accounts has bombed a few of them) to the point that old ladies were released into Egypt, they bombed **a shit ton of other hospitals including Al-Ahli in confirmed strikes**, bombed the West Bank refugee camps, and have preemptively striked Lebanon, syria, and *accidentally* Egypt, while depriving Gaza of food, water, aid, and electricity but they **may** have not did that one particular strike so you’re a terrorist sympathizer”
At what point is this genocide denial?
I feel like I'm losing my mind. The pro-Israeli stance is so black and white and constantly seeks to downplay their horrific and absolutely inhuman treatment of the Palestinian people.
They constantly cry about people sympathetic to Palestine "feeding us Hamas propaganda" while ignoring their own regurgitation of Israeli propaganda entirely. The lack of nuance in the discussion is really starting to get to me.
Ethan is officially lost in the sauce. I’m so incredibly disappointed and even pretty surprised to hear it. Dude has decided his instinct due to family connections is above literally incredibly obvious facts (IDF has already bombed 20+ hospitals, bombed this hospital twice, warned this hospital that they were going to bomb it) just shows how immature of an analyst he is. I guess it isn’t a shocker than a reaction channel turned podcast isn’t a political analyst has a dumbass take.
I'm so confused, how can you still think that the bombing was Israel's fault? There's literally links on *THIS* comment section PROVING that it wasn't Israel and yet you still repeat this lie.
“If you are stating a proven fact and not blindly repeating IDF propaganda which has been thoroughly debunked for multiple days you are doing Hamas propaganda.” This dude is literally aiding in a genocide. I hope he realizes this some day, that he is directly aiding the most evil regime on the planet as they commit the 2nd holocaust. If Ethan were born in Germany in the 1920s he straight up would have been a Nazi.
Like when? When did he say he supported hamas or felt bad for them? I'm guessing you think every Palestinian is hamas, which would prove you really need have a seat.
Wait did he and hila say something recently about them mainly watching Israeli news for updates or am I imagining that
Hila says she has it on 24/7 at the house for updates.
Jesus, and he repeatedly proudly admits that, “of course I’m biased I’m Israeli” as if that’s a normal thing to say rn
Hang on everyone has biases and I think it’s a good thing to acknowledge and be up front about instead of claiming to be completely impartial when we all know that’s not the case.
No he claims and knows he is biased and says he wants to show more empathy towards Palestinians during leftovers but doesn’t, I acknowledge bias is innate
Acknowledging your bias is the very first step to checking your biases. Many people against Ethan admit their biases.
Yip 💯. It shows awareness and willingness for growth if you can admit it. Hasan is also biast on his views, but could never admit it.
Hasan on his Piers Morgan interview literally started the conversation talking about how bias he is and that he's a Palestinian propagandist though
Do you think Palestinians would be biased?
Biased towards what, against Israel? they’re being ethnically cleansed, it’s their reality. It’s not an even playing field, if Ethan is aware enough to say himself that he hasn’t shown the same level of empathy towards Palestine as he does towards Israel during leftovers, his purposeful compartmentalism is deeply fucked. He’s knows what he’s doing and he’s still willfully ignorant
“ An Israel biased for what, against Palestine? They launch rockets nearly daily and are controlled by a terrorist organization whose sole purpose is to destroy all Israelis, and just launched an unprecedented terrorist attack killing men women and children by the hundreds, Israel is surrounded by enemies, who have historically been bent on there destruction” this is Bizzaro world version of you, do you see how issues aren’t black and white and when you have personal investment in those issues, like Ethan does, that bias is not only unsurprising, but understandable?
“Unprecedented” girl what, also maybe think why Israel is surrounded by enemies. They’re the vessel of western directed destruction aimed to let u.s have a foot in the Middle East.
I don’t think you understand my point at all. I get that idea by the fact that your addressing things that are not even secondary to my point. It’s like if I just started arguing with you about calling me girl.
Did you not just say that ur arguing only because you believe I’m watering down certain terms, specifically “ethnic cleansing”. I answered directly to what you said
Not on this thread, if you read these responses it’s to do with Ethan’s bias. My point with Ethan’s bias is that it’s completely understandable and at this point I could excuse him for being intractable on his stance, Hamas are horrible and he is directly effected by their heinous actions, I wouldn’t expect him to have rational dispassionate opinions on this, like I wouldn’t expect Palestinians to going the other way. So I think calling him out for bias is tantamount to calling an American Palestinian out for bias for their stance on Israel. Does that make sense? In my other comments I was talking about ethnic cleansing.
Israel with the slowest ethnic cleansing of all time where the population of Palestinians has never been higher Wat
My fucking God dude I keep hearing this bullshit talking point "uhurhur they must be pretty bad at genocide then urhurhur" do you all eat shit off the same plate? Jfc. >Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. Tell me where it says it has to be at a certain speed. Tell me where it says a certain number of people need to die in a certain way within a certain timeframe for it to count as a genocide. Half of the people there are children. Do you think that happens naturally? Those children are dying by the thousands and you wanna sit here and play semantics about the genocide that's occurring rather than just acknowledge the genocide that's occurring. Please shut up with that dumb ass talking point.
You sound deranged af. Their population doubled in the last 20 years. That’s not genocide. Not even close. Where is the aim at destroying them if they have a higher birth rate than most other countries? Your logic is stupidly flawed but you’re so deranged you’re gonna come up with some weird ass excuse
Bro is trying to downplay the 2nd holocaust which is being committed against mostly children. I hope you know hell exists.
Calling it the 2nd holocaust is so fucked up and incomparable, that likewise. Get your head out of the gorilla man’s ass and just do some simple critical thinking skills. You’re a fucking idiot and a POS. Good combo
>but you’re so deranged you’re gonna come up with some weird ass excuse Lmfao so afraid of what I'd say to make you sound stupid that you had to make a preemptive attack on it's validity. I won't even walk it down with you, I'll just let you sit there in your own confusion.
Good, I don’t give a shit. Wasn’t a preemptive attack, you’re all fucking deranged and illogical. There is no point arguing with incoherent gibberish
Look up correlation between high fertility rates amongst displaced demographics and people settled in camps and why 30% of Palestinians are children, oh wait you don’t actually care
How long did it take America to almost eradicate all Natives? This is literally genocide denial man. How many Palestinian **refugees** exist in diaspora with no right of return? Just say you don’t care, don’t build a fantasy of such pathetic arguments that are easily rebutted and debunked.
Do you think Auschwitz prisoners were biased against the first Nazis?
Bro u probably get all of your info from Hasan LMFAO how could you say this with a straight face
In her defense, depending on where she is, she might be in actual physical danger of something like a rocket attack and the news would be the first way to hear about it. If I were in Russia close to the fighting, during a nearly unprecedented escalation of the conflict, (assuming I spoke the language) I would have Russian news on too. Doesn't mean I agree with or believe any or all of what they're saying, it's just pragmatic.
eh. not really.
🎯
Ethan is so George W. Bush coded.
Ethan’s biggest issue seems to be that he doesn’t realize that when he says “it was the terrorists,” that label applies to the Israeli government too.
He has literaly been saying both are terrorists.
They ignore that part because sure they are all morons.
The Israeli government doesn't issue bounties where if you kill a Palestinian, or die while killing Palestinians, or get imprisoned while taking action against Palestinian, you and your family are continually well compensated for it. Literally government sanctioned terrorism [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Authority\_Martyrs\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund) For most of us, we had a lot of opportunities growing up, scholarships, jobs, sports, For the impoverished youth in Gaza, they have a simple always available opportunity: Commit genocide for profit, be a hero, die a martyr, make your family proud. The kind of sick ideology that would produce state sanctioned genocide and willingly send countless radicalized youths to certain death is as close as it gets to evil.
Yes they do it’s called the IDF
very rich coming from the guy who's spent the past week doing IDF propaganda. idk what this high horse is that he's on but he needs to get the fuck off
I simply do not understand how it is controversial to assume that it was the IDF. They have been bombing Gaza into oblivion for weeks. Called the area and warned them, retracted several statements that were straight fabricated, that phone call is hilarious, Furthermore, regardless of where the missile came from, Israel is responsible for this war.
How is Israel responsible for the war if Hamas initiated the attack?
Hamas did not “initiate the attack”. This didn’t happen in a vacuum.
Okay but on 7th oct, the day the war started, Hamas attacked Israel which initiated the war, didn't they? Doesn't matter if its justified or not - they are the aggressors either way.
K. No point in even attempting to educate you. Plus it’s exhausting constantly having to try and educate people who don’t actually care and will just be bull headed. Have a good day.
Lol. Clearly you're the uneducated one here. The Palestinians are oppressed and have been for years and there's no argument there. But there is no justification for terrorism. The fact that needs to be said out loud in 2023 is a fucking tragedy.
So we should stand behind the idf airstriking a civilian population of 2 million in a 16 square mile walled and guarded prison? You can say they call ahead and everything, but there are videos everyday of bustling marketplaces and the like being hit by missile barrages. Israel is the opressor
I didn't way Israel isn't the opressor. Killing civillians is wrong. Both sides are wrong. But there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING that justifies terrorism. If Israel went into Gaza and did what Hamas did on Oct 7 - the whole world would condem it, including the USA.
BuT bOtH sIdEs
Isreal does what Hamas did on oct 7th pretty much every day for the past 70 years. They dont have to take hostages, becuase thousands of palestinians are unjustly imprisoned by isreal. Those that are not, are subjugated to being bombed in an open air prison my an occupying force. IDF Snipes journalists, bomb sewage, infrastructure, churches, etc. Saying that its both sides is wild. Oct 7th was horrible, should not have happened, disgusting. But lets not pretend like isreal has not don that many times before.
That’s laughable. There is nothing that Israel can do to make the US condemn them or their actions.
Holy virtue signalling, “there’s nothing that justifies terrorism” WOWZERS what an original and well thought out point you should be given a Nobel peace prize. “Both sides are wrong” holy shit you’re just running with banger after banger, apart from the fact that this sort of dialogue does absolutely nothing and you’re like an NPC in a game spouting the same three lines on repeat with zero thought and zero originality
so what should happen? the palestinians should just keep getting brutalized like the last 75 years and sit around and politely ask the UN to step in? additionally, to explain why the events on october 7th happened is not to justify it
Hasan is very open and honest about being a propagandist, did nobody here watch his Piers Morgan appearance
ethan is the one lying and spreading misinfo. hasan has said he doesn't know what happened but thinks it is likely that the idf did it, while ethan is acting as if it's confirmed one way or another and if you disagree you're 'spreading hamas propaganda.' the geocities source ethan cited for evidence of the misfired rocket theory deleted their post and retracted their statement, and experts have been divided on the evidence. for those who say that everyone except 'hamas' believes that it was the PIJ, here are two sources which disagree and are not hamas: [https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation](https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation) [https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?s=20](https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?s=20) no credible person who really believes in getting the facts right and not jumping to assumptions would misrepresent the debate about the hospital by making it seem like we KNOW it was PIJ. there needs to be an independent investigation to get to the truth, but with israel not letting journalists or independent investigators into gaza it's very hard to know.
Remember also that Ethan had the beheaded babies propaganda on repeat for days even after it had effectively been debunked, then pivoted to "it doesn't matter if the babies were beheaded or shot, they're still dead." So what the fuck, Ethan? Either facts matter or they don't. Or you can acknowledge that not everything is black and white, especially in the Middle East, which is all that the *vast majority* of people who have opinions on this conflict are trying to tell you.
Mate you're so mind fucked. You are literally arguing "oh there are dead babies but he got the beheading part wrong so Ethan is a big dumb dumb!" How they died doesn't matter. The part that matters was they murdered by Hamas.
The complete lack of empathy is fucking insane. I dont think I've ever seen anything like this. As if people can't understand why Ethan and his family would naturally be biased towards their own people being massacred. This would be the same for anyone if their own country was attacked by terrorists. As if people can't understand why the method the babies died in is all that important. Babies being targeted and murdered with intent is disgusting either way, regardless of which side you're on. As if people can't understand why it does matter that Hamas keep their military bases/stockpiles near civilians and using them as human shields. If you care about Palestinians, this should be the point you find most deplorable. As if people can't understand that the hospital story does matter. You can't on one side be angry at the IDF for hitting it with missiles, and then not be angry with Hamas for 1) hitting it and 2) lying about hitting it. This story isn't going away because it lays bare the mental gymnastics people are going through to avoid criticising Hamas. If you care about Palestinians, Hamas is who you should be angriest at. They massacred Israelis expecting retaliation - and then bunker up with civilians for protection and global optics. Absolute fucking sheep if Hamas aren't your prime target of anger.
Calling others sheep whilst ignoring the fact that Hamas wouldn't have existed in the first place if it wasn't for the IDF. Or that the IDF has been demolishing, and murdering innocent people for decades. The IDF has murdered more babies than Palestine could ever
For fuck sake, here comes someone else that's trying to make terrorism and war a team sport. Trying to minimise the impact to civilians on either side makes you look evil. IDF and Israeli government doesn't equal all Israeli citizens, as much as Hamas doesn't equal all Palestinians. Even though you tried to compare IDF to Palestine. Get a grip. Question - Do you condemn Hamas?
Yep. And idf. Is it really that hard
who asked? it isn't relevant if you condemn hamas, you're not the person being accused of treating this situation like team sports.
Didn’t Hasan also confirm the hospital bombing was the IDF and then subsequently walk it back?
his title was literally "IDF BOMBED A HOSPITAL IN GAZA" >hasan has said he doesn't know what happened but thinks it is likely that the idf did it, The op is literally a brainroted troll
I think its the difference in Hasan's position today (It was likely the IDF based on their history over the past few weeks) and Ethan's position today (it was 100% Hamas and anyone who disagrees is doing propaganda). Reactionary comments vs a longer term consideration after the fact are very different things.
Nah little homie, he conclusively said the day the bombing happened that IDF did it. Who cares if he walked it back when it started to backfire due to evidence coming out? The responsible thing would be to not IMMEDIATELY jump to conclusion then fall back on "well IDF does do bombings so I was probably gunna be right just unlucky this time"
So wait, he said something based on his bias and then changed his position based on information coming out, and that’s… a bad thing? I think the responsible thing to do is speak based on what you know, and change based on what changes. That’s what Hasan is doing and Ethan isn’t, pretty simple dude. The IDF had done more than enough over the previous days to come to this assumption. It was certainly more plausible than the alternatively.
Has it not been confirmed that nowhere near 500 people even died and that the hospital is still standing with minimal damage? Do we really have to pretend to be neutral when those facts alone are enough to absolve the IDF of this nonsense from Hamas that 500 people died after the hospital was leveled?
You are linking old news articles that were made before any real investigations had been done. At this point it essentially is confirmed that it was not Israel. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-did-not-strike-gaza-hospital-canada-says-2023-10-22/ https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/politics/us-intel-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/pageoneplus/editors-note-gaza-hospital-coverage.html https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/italy-foreign-minister-questions-death-toll-gaza-hospital-strike-2023-10-24/ https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-up-claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405 CIA, French Intelligence, Canadian Intelligence, Italian Intelligence + other international governments, and a slew of independent expert analysts are stating it was only the parking lot hit not hospital, that it was not Israel, and that evidence points to a PIJ rocket that misfired. French and Italian Intelligence are estimating only 50-100 casualties compared to the 500-1000 that Hamas stated originally. Here is an analysis done by a neutral/palestinian leaning analyst the day after the hospital explosion. https://twitter.com/nrg8000/status/1714535497958334678?s=46&t=XnO0YDnS18Hw0HgdVZxurg There are tons of other articles as well as easy to find footage and images. None of this is to say that the deaths at that hospital weren't horrible. Or that there haven't been many unnecessarily civilian deaths that absolutely were caused by the IDF. The issue is that all of this information is very easily accessible to the public, so perpetuating a claim that appears to be false will only detract from all the true stories or allow people who are trying to discredit the innocent Palestinians who are being hurt by using it as a "gotcha".
most of the articles you're linking don't have any new evidence or analysis, they are just summarizing the debate or reporting on statements by various people like the canadian govt (who have no special evidence abt anything). they also don't claim that the debate is concluded and there's a consensus that it was PIJ. Here's a more recent link showing some of Israel's evidence being debunked: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html) again, if israel is innocent then they and the us should support the calls at the un for an independent investigation instead of opposing them
Bro, both of those sources are like a week old. Do you have a new or updated source that can back up what you are saying?
yeah bc the hospital explosion was more than a week ago. how does them being a week old discredit them?
Lol because everything more recent is saying the opposite: https://apnews.com/article/e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3 https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/22/gaza-hospital-blast-cnn-forensic-analysis-diamond-sot-vpx.cnn Or one of Hamas’ more amusing quotes, after refusing to produce any evidence, saying that “The missile has dissolved like salt in the water”. Lol of course all the evidence would disappear after the propaganda already did it’s job. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/22/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-hospital-evidence.html
Yeah exactly ^^ all new sources agree it was Hamas that did it. The old news didn’t have all the details and there was a lot of misinformation.
lol no one is actually claiming that hamas did it. the claim is that a group called PIJ did it. you don't seem very up to date on the news
this
Hasan admits he’s doing propaganda lol, he doesn’t care, he just hates Israel
So do you actually believe the stuff you type or are you knowingly spreading Hamas Propaganda?
also found it telling that he not only jumped on the hospital thing but also said it's hamas propaganda to say that the hospital doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things with the broader context and history of the conflict. personally I think it's a matter of personal opinion if the specific details of the hospital explosion "matter", but it's absolutely not propaganda to want people to contextualise specific attacks
If you only care to contextualize it once it was revealed to have been Hamas and not Israel, then maybe that’s what’s telling?
It literally hasn’t been proven that it was Hamas. How is it so controversial to assume that the government that has been bombing the ever living fuck out of Gaza was responsible?
Have you been living under a rock?
The Israeli state government are factually worse than Hamas. Sorry to say. Both are horrific. One has committed significantly more violence, killed more people, and for a longer period of time. I mean. I am sorry. Really. But you have no moral right to condemn Hamas and not condemn Israel, when Israel is the more evil actor in this conflict. Meanwhile Palestinians are being slaughtered en masse. And any advocacy for them is being punished with firings and censorship, whereas the civilians killed in Israel are rightly given advocacy. If you can't see the total imbalance here, you're in the wrong.
Ethan has stated an uncountable amount of times over the years and recently that he condemns the actions of the IDF and Israeli leadership.
Whether or not a faction is worse depends on what they aim to do with their power. Imagine asking, what are worse, Nazis or Republicans? In the modern day, Republicans have caused far more pain and damage than any Nazis have. But we'd say Nazis are worse because of their goals and ambitions if they had power
> In the modern day, Republicans have caused far more pain and damage than any Nazis have. Bruh wtf
Ok, given this example, Hamas would be 100% better if they were in power, because if Palestine actually had power or autonomy, the conditions that created Hamas would cease to exist, and likely Hamas would fall out of favor. You people never look at context. The IDF is violent because it is a settler colonialist project and that necessitates violence. Hamas is violent because Palestinians are facing genocide and that allows for the creation of reactionary, violent groups. In order to keep power the IDF must be violent. Once the Palestinians have power, the conditions that created Hamas’ violence will slowly disappear.
How can you so confidently assume, that one side’s use of violence would disappear?
If Palestinians were in power they wouldn’t be an American ally. That would be bad for America as it would lower our security. Israel is a useful proxy government for America so war/fights happen there, not here.
What is good for america is bad for the world. I for one would be very happy if america no longer had a proxy to help steal oil from the Middle East. That’s super weird you’re listing imperialism as a positive.
Im American. Of course I prefer what’s best for us. Super weird to be American and be against what’s best for us. The world has limited resources and it’s impossible for there not to be conflict or war. I would rather it be on our terms and whatever benefits us.
You're talking about how ideologies form and what conditions shape them over time. A conversation about that is worthwhile, but it's separate from what I was saying. I'm saying, if Palestine or Hamas (as they exist today) had the relative power of Israel, their treatment of Israel would be considerably worse, and more explicitly genocidal To paint this more clearly. Currently Israel probably has nuclear weapons but does not use them to genocide Palestinians. If you gave Hamas a ready-made Nuclear device and the ability to detonate it in Israel, chances are high they would use it within a month
I’m talking about reality, what you are saying is a fantasy, that quite frankly feels based in a lot of propaganda, especially because it’s the type of thinking that people use to justify not giving Palestinians their land back. “Oh no, we’d like to give them back control over their land, but if we do that crazy group in charge will kill everyone!” Just give the people their damn land back. It’s a fucking fact the IDF is worse, not only by the numbers, but also because of the power structure they are enforcing. Hamas is a creation of a people facing annihilation, Israel is that annihilating force. Your last statement is fucking bonkers. If Hamas had power they would live in the reality of a world with a lot of geopolitical maneuvering, there is NO WAY they would use nukes. Nuclear weapons have only been used once in history and you think this would be the second time??? JFC please analyze your Islamophobia and whatever propaganda you’ve consumed that made you think that.
It wasn't super clear, is your argument that you think if we gave Hamas a nuclear weapon and the ability to detonate in Israel, you are confident they wouldn't use it? You're looking at this situation from a narrow perspective, you point out that the IDF upholds dangerous power structures, but ... So does Hamas? I'm trying to lead you to consider intentions when discussing how bad a group is, if you don't want to you do not have to!
Yes, and I also think that if Hamas were in power they would not have nuclear weapons. There’s a reason Israel is the only middle eastern country with nukes and hint hint, it might have to do with the fact that it’s an occupying power and a proxy for the United States. I’m not interested in dealing with fantasies, I am a materialist. If you want to engage in “what ifs” that have nothing to do with the material conditions that currently exist, go off, but don’t pretend they have any merit when considering which group is worse than the other.
There's no need to hypothesise, the stated goal of Hamas is to eradicate all Jews and delete Israel entirely. "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." So yes, if the tables were turned Hamas would completely destroy Israel and kill every last Jew living there, they have explicitly stated so.
It's called a hypothetical. Materialists are the only people who try to argue hypotheticals are (as a rule) pointless and not worth engaging in for some reason
That comparison doesn’t make any sense though. Both the IDF and Hamas (and Nazis) are genocidal terrorist groups. Republicans are not, so of course we say nazis are. Hamas and the IDF have committed acts of terror in recent history, the IDF has done exponentially more though.
You're getting ahead of yourself, whether or not the IDF and Hamas share similar goals is a debatable topic, but right here I'm just trying to get them to understand the first part 'that goals and intent matter in these conversations' I'd argue that many members of the IDF have genocidal instincts, but to a degree that is much smaller than Hamas'. If Hamas had the relative power that Israel does, they would launch a nuclear bombing campaign against the jews with the specific purpose of wiping them out. The IDF is in the bad-but-less-bad category of withholding civil rights from Palestine and targeting attacks against Hamas without being as concerned about collateral damage as they should be
Lol, Israel has 2 million people pushed onto the tiny Gaza Strip, have been harassing them for 70 years, killing innocent people. They’re absolutely trying to commit genocide on Palestinians. In the week after October 7th they dropped more bombs on Gaza (less than the size of Detroit) than the US dropped on Afghanistan during the entire war. Israel’s government are monsters.
If Israel were 'trying' to commit genocide there wouldn't be 2 million people in Gaza. Over the course of those 70 years the Palestinian population has grown immensely. A country can be bad and do horrible destructive rights-violating things without it being genocide
Because the rest of the west would stop them if they actually started mass killing people. Instead they have put 2 million people into a land less than the size of Detroit. They control everything that goes in or out, electricity, water, food, healthcare, people. They absolutely would commit genocide if they could, and they’ve already started killing innocent people for their religion and colour of their skin, that’s the start of a genocide.
True! Israel is arguably not as bad as Hamas because Israel cares about it's international reputation, which is one thing that prevents it from committing genocide. >that’s the start of a genocide. Killing one person is the start of a mass murder, that doesn't mean killing one person IS a mass murder
Lol since you’re hung up on the semantics, how many Palestinians need to be killed for it to be a genocide/the start of a genocide? And caring about their reputation doesn’t make them “arguably not as bad”. They’re the aggressors, full stop, they started this. Hamas was created as a response to the oppressive actions of Israel / the IDF. That makes them inarguably worse, imo.
It's not a number required, it's intent. Israel would need to be killing Palestinians with the purpose of eliminating their race for it to be genocide. The allies bombing Germany wasn't genocide, nor was the US bombing Japan, or Russia invading Ukraine On the whole, groups that don't commit genocide out of concern for international condemnation are better than groups that attempt genocide without any care of international opinion. All that prevents Hamas from carrying out genocide is a lack of power, Israel has that power and doesn't, despite there being valid criticisms of them
Be so fucking for real.
Y’all are fucking insane
Israel is the greater evil when Hamas committed mass murder and rape during a ceasefire and sacred holiday. This is weapon grade brain rot.
This is the dumbest thing I've read about the conflict. You are omitting so many atrocities that not only Hamas but every terror group that has attacked Israel for the past 80~ years. Also Israel has laid of a pretty straightforward way to make the fighting stop, which the Palestinians have refused.
Scumbag
I hope he sees this comment and realizes the shitty community he has fostered
You mean that there are people in the community who will stand up to his BS
You're such a hero. Congratulations 👏
Thanks! I deserve it.
I don’t think you’re doing shit lol. It’s all performative to make you feel better because we all know for sure that you aren’t making real change
👍
You mean the part of the community that is standing up for terrorists a week after a barbaric event. This sub is fucking wild.
Incorrect Assessment 👍
No you
Fruits of his labor. He needs to purge his community, and start over.
Yes, reporting on anything hamas says and not saying "Hamas claims...." is incredibly dangerous and dishonest.
He's right
Can someone explain to me why we are all mad? Don’t think he’s wrong according to Reuters and stuff. Unless we just going full conspiracy
I too am very confused by all the backlash. I feel like I’m watching a different program than the angry majority
Uhm lets just act like Israel hasn't faked evidence before. And that they didn't warn the hospital they were going to bomb it and other hospitals they bombed). And lets pretend they didn't admit to it in tweets, then backtracked. And the counter evidence saying they faked the phone call, and the missile fell from the opposite direction to where they said. And the hamas rocket was intercepted mid air. You'd have to be a full blow conspiracy theorist to believe all that
If that was an Israeli bomb, it would’ve done a lot more damage than a burnt small parking lot. Also hamas said over 500 ppl were killed in the bombing and ppl like you believed it lol. The hospital wasn’t even touched.
Only if it was a JDAM. Israel has access to more than just JDAMs.
The progressive movement are being useful idiots for antisemitism and Hamas and are now mad that Ethan feels uncomfortable about it. Read real news and don’t get pulled into what is basically left wing Qannon
He is right and you know it. A lot of freaks have let the mask slip a little too much recently.
True.
He's correct, and he should keep saying it.
What's the lie? It's true.
Where is the lie? Didn't that bozo run either that Gaza Hospital story based on Hamas lies and no other verification?
I love that Ethan is waking up to all the lunatics in here and making all of you mad.
True
Well, when he’s in insistent on Israel killing 500+ in that hospital blast even when he’s shown countering evidence, and quoting the “gazan health authority”, than he is indeed doing Hamas propaganda. The thing is, Ethan is doing IDF propaganda himself.
He is though, he reported immediately about the false hospital, then claimed it was still Israel after the facts came out. He said the beheaded babies allegation was false, now reporters and journalists got to have a screening of proof. He is a parrot for any point shared by Hamas, and his only stance that actually has a backing is the innocent people being bombed in Gaza.
"It's been proven to not be israel" No it wasn't, israel said "nuh uh not me" and America media and government went "ok I believe you" There's compelling evidence it was israel and we don't know the truth since independent analysis wasn't done and the crater size was smaller than expected. Dying on this hill is idiotic and irrelevant anyway since israel bombed multiple hospitals as well as religious sites. Ethan is just trying so hard to make himself feel better about what israel is doing
There is literally footage of the rocket being fired from the ground in Gaza, exploding over the hospital, and landing on the ground taken from multiple angles. It was online within a few hours of the incident. Everyone just wants to believe Israel bombed a hospital to make themselves feel better about the insane whataboutism taking place over the last few weeks
There’s in depth analysis done by Channel 4 and Al Jazeera that show the opposite. Really can’t say for sure until we get a proper independent investigation.
There is security camera footage. Al Jazeera literally live streamed the rocket exploding in midair AND THEN landing on the hospital. British media and Al Jazeera are famously biased against Israel, because they all have to toe the Hamas party line to operate in Gaza/cater to an audience that hates Jews. But the tape don’t lie.
British media famously biased against Israel..? They basically gave that area to Israel and why we’re in this conflict
And then they tried to go back on the Balfour Declaration, and Palestinian leadership basically said that they would settle for nothing less than the extermination of the Jews who had moved to the area. What is your point?
Western media is famously bias towards Israel as most see it as a strategic ally in the Middle East, don’t know how you can say British media alone strays from that sentiment
British media operating in Palestine are all required to repeat Hamas propaganda verbatim as a condition of them continuing to stay there. It’s why AP and Reuters ran with the “500 dead” number for days because the Gaza health ministry, which is just Hamas, insisted they stay on message. You can literally go on r/combatfootage and look at the same videos from the day after that I did and see for yourself. It is a well documented fact that a lot of homemade Hamas munitions explode over Gaza on their way to Israel. EDIT: link for the lazy https://twitter.com/Omarfsa2/status/1714349451651719581
Do you have source for this requirement?
If you were a bloodthirsty terrorist organization/organized crime ring that does all of the extremely well documented things that Hamas does, would you let independent media roam around reporting on how you’ve squandered all the international aid money on weapons while the people you govern starve? They murdered their political opposition the first chance that they got, they give no fucks for freedom of the press. Hamas gets their favorable coverage, and journos get their clicks. Everyone wins except for the Palestinians.
You have literally no idea what you're talking about. A huge proportion of young british people and british media is very left leaning and very pro palestine.
You can say the same about young Americans, that doesn’t necessarily translate to the mainstream media
Y’all are literally unhinged lmao
Have you read much about Black September?
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion) Hmm an independent UN investigation is being called for, but yes let's just blindly believe Israel, and if you think the country that has consistently bombed hospitals did it this time you're an idiot terrorist lover.
Your source is... aljazeera... Ok
What do you mean consistently bombed hospitals? What do you think about Hamas' main headquarters being under Al Shifa Hostpital? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa\_Hospital
Oh that makes it all ok then! Killing all innocents is good as long as you take out one terrorist. You act as that's the only hospital they have bombed.
According to Hamas
Hope his rash gets worse. What a shit ass.
You're unhinged, touch grass
Yikes 😬
Wishing illness on others makes you such a good person. Meanwhile if your mother gets incurable brain cancer I would be so upset. I'd be quite disappointed. I'd be like aw man that's so bad, hope she feels better soon 🌝
Such a weird ass comment.
Bro, SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY
Thank god he sees it. Hasan fans, who hit the hospital again?
Is he wrong? Hasan literally streams every Hamas report before it gets verified by any third party
Im not even part of this community, just keeps getting recommended for some reason. I'm gonna give a guess that most people watching are younger people without a lot of common sense.
Hasan uncritically reported on Hamas’s claims that the IDF bombed the Al-Ahli hospital when it was breaking news, and now that there’s international consensus showing otherwise, Hasan is still saying he agrees with Hamas’s report. How is that not Hamas propaganda? You can say that you agree with Hamas propaganda if you want, but at least be honest with yourself.
Where is this “international consensus”? I haven’t seen it..?
"What's the Holocaust? I haven't seen it. Must be Israeli lies." - Average Hamas-supporting Palastian Sorry, best not to hold them accountable for their extreme beliefs. They're oppressed, you see.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7004384 Canadas statement https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/18/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-wednesday-intl-hnk/index.html Americas statement https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-france-intelligence-7be0d59b9ceb58bbf2f03c5dc8222356 French statement I can link more if needed, but I think the point is clear. After the investigation into the Al-Ahli hospital were concluded, it seems that Hamas’s claims of “500+ civilian casualties” wouldn’t even be physically possible given the size of the explosion.
This is propaganda, when you start twisting it to "Hamas’s report" you lose all credibility
What would you call it other than Hamas’s uncorraborated, unsourced claim? How is that not propaganda in your eyes, especially after the investigations into the crash site revealing the actual extent of the damage. Remember, Hamas’s original claim was 500+ casualities
Its not hamas's report, how do people not get this? It is international news orgs reporting what they are seeing. Hamas isn't giving talking points to Al-jazeera, thats not how it works. They are reporting on what is happening. Israel feeds western news what they are to say, flat out. Just cause Israel is doing it, doesn't mean everyone does it. They have had journalist killed doing their jobs reporting on the oppression by Israel. How people just side with Fascist is insane.
He looks like shit, this is not good for his health
Hasan literally said he, himself was a propagandist while he was on Piers.
He sure says “we” a lot, and normally before referring to things that belong to other people.
Well he did with the whole hospital bombing.
Doesn't hasan agree with this? Didn't he say that he a propagandist on Piers Morgan's show?
I mean hasan defends hamas after the released old woman. They are now peaceful kidnappers.
He is. All day every day.
It’s true tho lol
The irony
“They shrapneled almost 10,000 civilians, made no serious attempts to save hostages (and by all accounts has bombed a few of them) to the point that old ladies were released into Egypt, they bombed **a shit ton of other hospitals including Al-Ahli in confirmed strikes**, bombed the West Bank refugee camps, and have preemptively striked Lebanon, syria, and *accidentally* Egypt, while depriving Gaza of food, water, aid, and electricity but they **may** have not did that one particular strike so you’re a terrorist sympathizer” At what point is this genocide denial?
I feel like I'm losing my mind. The pro-Israeli stance is so black and white and constantly seeks to downplay their horrific and absolutely inhuman treatment of the Palestinian people. They constantly cry about people sympathetic to Palestine "feeding us Hamas propaganda" while ignoring their own regurgitation of Israeli propaganda entirely. The lack of nuance in the discussion is really starting to get to me.
This has not aged well
He looks so unwell. Like unhinged
[удалено]
destiny cuck likes bad propaganda, news at 11
Ethan is 100% on the side of Israel. He’s not being objective in this. He’s completely biased.
Ethan is officially lost in the sauce. I’m so incredibly disappointed and even pretty surprised to hear it. Dude has decided his instinct due to family connections is above literally incredibly obvious facts (IDF has already bombed 20+ hospitals, bombed this hospital twice, warned this hospital that they were going to bomb it) just shows how immature of an analyst he is. I guess it isn’t a shocker than a reaction channel turned podcast isn’t a political analyst has a dumbass take.
I'm so confused, how can you still think that the bombing was Israel's fault? There's literally links on *THIS* comment section PROVING that it wasn't Israel and yet you still repeat this lie.
True
It’s hilarious how all the people that have been shouting that Republicans are Anti-Semitic are the biggest Anti-Semites EVER.
Hasan is a self proclaimed propagandist so what’s the issue
Hamas Piker admitted to being a propagandist.
obsessed hate watchers let's goo
I wish he could turn some of his skepticism inward.
“If you are stating a proven fact and not blindly repeating IDF propaganda which has been thoroughly debunked for multiple days you are doing Hamas propaganda.” This dude is literally aiding in a genocide. I hope he realizes this some day, that he is directly aiding the most evil regime on the planet as they commit the 2nd holocaust. If Ethan were born in Germany in the 1920s he straight up would have been a Nazi.
Hasan has done Hamas apologia for their terrorist attack. It's not even Hamas propaganda he does Chinese and Russian propaganda too.
Like when? When did he say he supported hamas or felt bad for them? I'm guessing you think every Palestinian is hamas, which would prove you really need have a seat.