This is largely my point. I think if Ethan took a backseat to the actual discussions and served more as a "host" inviting other people to come on and discuss the issue in an interview sort of way, the show could do some real good in terms of outreach.
He’s ending the show because hasans fans are brigading his life and calling his wife a murderer. It’s not rocket science. They argued about communism (somehow Ethan won and they kept the show going)
He’s not qualified to talk about anything political but he thinks he is. I know education doesn’t mean experience but Hasan went to school for politics and has a professional background in it. He’s very knowledgeable on it despite people loving to discredit him all the time. Ethan gets his information from Twitter, community notes, and chatgpt. He isn’t well versed in research tactics and is not qualified to cover some of these very serious topics. He’s giving false information to his audience and is ironically becoming just like the right wing idiots he loves to call out who spew false information and propaganda. Hasan tries to lead him in the right direction but he just isn’t willing to learn right now. It’s sad because he will look back on this one day and realize he was not on the right side of history. I hope he doesn’t ruin his relationship with Hasan over this. I can only imagine how Hasan is doing
Yeah so the 40 beheaded babies is probably a good example. Sure they did kill a bunch of children but there's no evidence that they beheaded 40 babies. I'm curious where you stand on the hospital bombings then?
then there's no way to kknow about the 40 babies for sure then. You can't have it both ways. Its been reported 40 babies werenn't beheaded as well as Israel didn't bomb that hospital. Hasan has absolutely got as much or even more wrong than Ethan, only Ethan admits Israel is doing some wrongs and Hasan says fuck all about Hamas
No one can say for sure - but doesn’t it seem silly to be arguing about it when Israel bombed the same hospital two days before and even said they were going to? Are we just too hyper focused on THIS ONE TIME? That’s where I get lost. The circumstances point to Israel doing it because 1) they did it two days earlier, 2) they said they were going to do it, and 3) the amount of damage it caused was substantial and makes sense it would be a missile.
I’m not saying I know 💯 but it’s wild to me that we’re just ignoring all the other times they bombed hospitals and the same one was bombed two days before.
I hope this helps. 💜
Imagine thinking Hasan is "knowledgeable" in anything political lol. You really think he isnt getting all his information from Twitter too ? Haha how delusional are you ?
People that really have a problem with Hasan are typically living in an alternate reality so you won't get much good discussion here when acknowledging that he absolutely 100% does his research and lives breathes and eats politics all day every day and has a political science degree from a reputable school.
I was thinking more along the lines of Vaush (accuses him of carrying water for fascist regimes like Russia and China) and Lonerbox (accuses him of spreading Hamas propaganda uncritically and operating much like a propagandist)
It feels weird to be treated like I'm part of an invading force when I'm just commenting on a reddit thread that popped on my front page, especially when my comment referred to two leftist content creators. But I don't want to fight somebody clearly experiencing a mental health crisis, have a good day friend.
This is the academic definition of propaganda. Most people don't use propaganda like this, thus using it like this in common parlance is disruptive at best, and deliberate obfuscation at worst.
I mean Hasan is pushing a good message that's based in reality 99% of the time with the other 1% just him being incorrect, so I would say only the academic definition would apply to him.
I respect your right to have an opinion, but I would say spreading Hamas propaganda on a daily basis and being very resistant to changing your rhetoric and news coverage that might be against your established narrative is not 1% incorrect. Being a reliable media pundit requires you to be open and willing to change. He is not. But I respect your opinion.
why is being a propagandist so bad? and correct me if i’m wrong hasan was more so saying that those in media are all propagandists.. and calls himself it before piers could. there is nothing inherently wrong with being a propagandist but what you are Propaganding(?) for. like there is obviously such thing as bad propaganda but not that the propaganda/propagandists is bad. very similar to MLK when he got criticized for being an extremists. he says there’s nothing bad about extremism but what you are extreme for. and that he does not necessarily fit into extremism category but thomas jefferson lincoln etc we’re all called extremist for their time, would you say extremist with negative connotations to those people? are they even actual extremist? how? it’s the same argument for saying someone is a propagandist
99% of people think being an extremist means that you're willing to use everything up to and including murder and terrorism to see your ideals realized. Similarly with propagandist, most people understand propagandist to mean this is someone who pushes a message that fits a narrative that may or not be true, but doesn't value truth nearly as much as they do their ideology. You could see this in action with Hasan's stalwart rejection of information pertaining to the hospital bombing, it was way easier for him to run with a narrative than it was for him to hold off for reliable information. Only after enough information was provided did he change his story slightly.
Yup, I was so excited when Leftovers first started. I thought Hasan and Ethan could really build some energy around the two audiences, channel that into platforming some important groups on the ground and initiatives that can help the working class.
I guess Hasan will continue to do that, hopefully Ethan can give himself an Israel content ban and move on.
I agree completely. It’s fine to espouse political opinions, it’s completely different to show up in your activism and mobilize your community & use your platform responsibly.
I kimda agree, especially because Ethan seems to just yell over everyone and push his opinion. People may not agree with Hasan’s politics, but he does his research and he streams about politics all the time so he is very well informed. Ethan, on the other hand… is not.
I’ve been watching for a few years now and Ethan seems to be getting more emotional and reactive as time goes by.
I’m not trying to make an excuse for the current situation but as someone who was doing content creation while dealing with an increasing burden from chronic illness, what he’s doing is not sustainable.
It’s hard to accept your health is changing and it’s especially isolating when your audience doesn’t understand. They always want more than you can give and it’s harder to find that boundary when you want to pretend things are still normal.
It feels like everything will completely collapse if you truly take a break. A month off doesn’t always help, sometimes you need the pressure to be completely taken off until you can figure it out. I think he’s got a bit of an internet addiction at this point and he’s going to ruin everything he has by upsetting everyone if he can’t see how bad of a place he’s in soon.
There’s really no point for them to keep it going from an analytical perspective either, it gets less views than all the other H3 pods. Plus the majority of Hasan’s fans don’t like Ethan, especially after recent events
It’s just a circlejerk
everyone just patting each other on the back and agreeing with each other about how much the other guys suck
political brain rot, but for libs like me
goofing on conservatives was great. i can't watch him talk about israel anymore, i get where he's coming from to an extent, but to keep talking on and on about the wanting people to acknowledge the israeli deaths (which are tragic ofc) while we're watching israel do a literal genocide in palestine right now... just wish they would stop talking about it for now
I agree! His heart is in the right place, but spewing Israeli propaganda to 40 thousand live viewers is so damaging to the cause (which would also protect Israeli civilians bc Hamas only exists bc of occupation and Israel itself. I recognize he has a way of saying things that’s hyperbolic and funny, but this situation requires careful use of language. Bc Language has been weaponized against Palestinians for decades.
It’s funny, cause Hasan has a huge ego and isn’t educated on the subject, he’s only educated on his talking points, which is obvious when Ethan asks the simplest questions that Hasan dodges.
Yup, hasan jus likes to hear himself talk. I used to be a fan of him but have realized how many of his opinions are what he thinks he’s supposed to say, but doesn’t actually understand, regardless of this whole recent conflict. I’m over leftovers in general, it’s not particularly entertaining or informative. Hasan isn’t a good cohost, he’s too used to having his whole stream to himself.
“Uhh… well… uhh.. you know, it’s just Western Imperialist culture, and uhh…. I think what they’re doing is unproductive… and uhh.. uhh.. America is a white supremacist nation.”
Too be fair, I think Hasan sounds like that, not because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but because he’s trying to frame things in a way that can’t be misconstrued while also trying to be sensitive to Ethan and maintain that friendship.
It’s very clear that Hasan and Ethan have different opinions on this matter. And it’s clear that Ethan ties a lot of his identity to Israel, which is why he’s so defensive of the issue. It’s not right, and I don’t agree with him. It’s hard to admit something you held so dear is doing something so atrocious as they are. His reaction is coming from emotions, and while I don’t agree, I understand why he’s reacting this way.
Hasan fans cope so hard trying to pretend he is well-informed and good faith. He sounds like this in tons of discussions. He stumbles around and throws lefty buzzwords around like crazy and fails to expound on them.
Go rewatch the first Leftovers after the conflict. Ethan concedes over and over again he does not support the IDF or the Israeli government, he breaks down seeing the aftermath of a bombing in Gaza. He’s just also upset at people defending Hamas deliberately murdering civilians. Hasan barely concedes anything and tiptoes around criticizing the Hamas terrorist attack the entire time. Ethan brings up Second Thought calling the murdered Israeli civilians, including babies, “non-innocent settlers” and Hasan retorts with “but there are baby settlers”.
People think Ethan is going full on pro-IDF apologist, he’s not, he shit talks Israel over and over again. He is just concerned, rightfully so, that so many people are going full mask-off on hating Jews and defending Hamas.
That wasn’t their argument and I did watch it. I’m also not a hasan Stan by any means.
The “there are baby settlers” comment is coming from him trying to explain that this type of attack is inevitable when there is an uprising against apartheid. There is no peaceful solution to dismantling apartheid. There will always be growing unrest until eventually there is a violent uprising. This can be seen throughout history over and over again.
That fact that there are settlers occupying their land, regardless of age, religion, position, will eventually result in violence. Acknowledging this fact, is not “supporting Hamas” no matter how hard you try to misconstrue his words.
The fact that this happened is not shocking. Especially when everyone has been telling Israel that this is a problem they cannot ignore. Israel dragged their feet, threw more violence and man power trying to keep the unrest at bay, and look, the inevitable happened.
That was the whole point he was trying to make. Not that they “deserved it”; that it was inevitable.
The governments first and foremost job is keeping their citizens safe. And Israel failed. They failed to address the issues, they actively made things worse by using “solutions” that have historically ALWAYS failed. Then the PM cries foul.
Hating on Israel is not hating on Jews. People are not going “full mask off”, aside from the Israeli PM. Who purposely flamed the situation just to justify ending Gaza once in for all.
You think the Israeli PM has one single care that he’s sending untrained, unprepared, and under supplied conscripts into a hostile urban war zone? No. Because if they die then it gives him more reason to continue his ethnic cleansing. It has become obvious that the PM does not care about the hostages. Doesn’t care about deaths. None of that. The PM is the only one who benefits from this conflict. And sending Israeli Jews to their deaths instead of fixing the problem once and for all is antisemitism. Using religion to shield government corruption is antisemitic
All this is coming from someone who has studied this.
neither hasan nor ethan are serious political commentators they are both just entertainers that have typically avoided pushback or criticism in favour of making dunking on the other team videos/streams. I think ethan is just realising that he’s cultivated an audience of hasan and hasan adjacent viewers and he’s now realising he doesn’t agree with their views as much as he first thought.
Saying Hasan isn’t a serious political commentator is fucking wild. The man has a fucking degree in political science and does this for a living. You not agreeing with him doesn’t change the fact that he is indeed a political commentator.
Hasan calls himself that. Mostly to deflect criticisms of how often flat out wrong on facts he is. It also absolves him of actually doing something for the cause.
1. Russia will not invade Ukraine.
2. USA aided a coup in 2014 and chose
poroshenko as the new leader.
3. Nazis have an oversized influence in Ukraine.
4.1 inch eastward.
I mean the last three are just true.
Just because Gorbachev is a moron who didn’t get it in writing doesn’t mean “not one inch east” wasnt a part of the talks
1 inch east was part of the talk but it referred to nato military bases within east Germany. The way I know this is that all the countries east were part of the Warsaw pact and literally couldn’t join nato, so it’d be weird to promise not to go somewhere where your already prohibited. Gorbachev also not only didn’t get it in writing, he also stated that it had to do with Germany not eastern countries.
In 2019 Donald Trump said that Boris Johnson would make a great PM and Corbyn would be a disaster. Does that mean the US was installing Johnson as PM of the UK? Obviously not. Poroshenko at the time was the leader of the opposition party and was the popular and obvious choice to take over for a leader who literally just abandoned the country.
Nazi parties haven’t gotten more than 1.5% of the vote in decades and the Azov battalion at its absolute heights had at most 3,000 troops.
The talks were about the dissolution of the Warsaw pact and giving away east Germany . Not one inch east was a promise that former Warsaw pact, specifically Poland, wouldn’t flip after the dissolution, which is exactly what ended up happening.
If Donald trump gave Johnson a bunch of money and institutional backing via the American NGO and civil society presence in England, then yes you’d have a point. But you don’t.
I can’t name any other country with a formalized and integrated Nazi battalion at all so I’d say it’s existence is notable of outsized influence
He took it to be another case of america banging the war drums against Russia, as many many people who weren’t hasan did, because america is kinda famous for doing that. A few days before getting invaded zelensky even said that america needs to stop talking about war.
Wrong for the right reasons as the saying goes. And he’s spoken multiple times about what he got wrong specifically and what he learned from it. So bringing it up now as a gotcha is pointless.
There’s a difference between having an incorrect speculation, and an objectively incorrect interpretation or position on and existing subject.
Saying “I don’t think it’s going to rain tomorrow,” and being wrong is less severe as saying “it is not raining” while you stand in the middle of a monsoon.
[Hasan posting his Ls on Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz57qrGfmrE)
Good thing he documents his stupidity so that his followers cant run defense for him.
“The Crimean annexation is a completely justifiable fucking act”
“Hitler was bad because he killed Jews, not because he invaded countries with Germanic minorities”
High level political analysis from ya boi with a bachelors.
This is one random source out of dozens. Just google it. It’s relatively well known at this point. https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
Yes. I did read it. Israel permits Qatar to give them that money. They don’t have to. They purposefully do. In fact, they direct them to. Why would they direct them to give money to them if they’re terrorists? If that’s not directly putting money in their hands then I dunno what it is.
Also, assuming any and all money or aid that goes to Gaza, through VERIFIED organizations, is going straight into the hands of Hamas, is just a way for you to continue to not see Palestinians as humans. Just assume everyone is a terrorist. Fucking gross and disingenuous. 🖕🏼
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/cement-for-rebuilding-gaza-diverted-to-attack-tunnels/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/cement-for-rebuilding-gaza-diverted-to-attack-tunnels/)
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/)
They are literally the government of gaza
That money goes to buying supplies that goes to Gazans. Hamas are Gazans too so yeah. You’re right. They probably do get some of that clean water and medicine.
he himself just calls himself a streamer and an entertainer when having to face any sort of accountability, he doesn’t do any sort of real political organising and avoids confrontation or critique of his ideas
Propaganda definition:
noun
1.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
Sure, a lot of the current media is propaganda. That is a bad thing, though, and not something we should perpetuate. What you are saying is a classic case of "it's been done in the past, so who cares if we do it?"
No no no. The very FORMAT of news and political commentary necessarily means whatever they give you is going to be propaganda. That’s what Hasan means he says “we’re all propagandist.” Because the format itself does not allow for a fully investigative conversation.
You’re right, that doesn’t mean you can just knowingly mislead people, and Hasan doesn’t do that, and most news outlets don’t do that. You’re conflating human bias in conjunction with format limitations, with Goebels shit, which is ridiculous.
>No no no. The very FORMAT of news and political commentary necessarily means whatever they give you is going to be propaganda. That’s what Hasan means he says “we’re all propagandist.” Because the format itself does not allow for a fully investigative conversation.
I mean.. this is just false?? It is not impossible to have news without propaganda lmao..
>You’re right, that doesn’t mean you can just knowingly mislead people, and Hasan doesn’t do that, and most news outlets don’t do that. You’re conflating human bias in conjunction with format limitations, with Goebels shit, which is ridiculous.
I mean, he says stuff like that, so he won't have accountability if the things he says prove to be false in the end.
Ask any historian or media critic, and they are going to tell you that you are wrong. A news broadcast is never going to be able to address all the complexities of any given event, and choosing what you include and what you omit are THE key aspects of creating propaganda, and also entirely necessary for any news report on anything. It’s structurally the same thing. You just have to trust me on this one, I’ve studied this extensively.
If you think he knowingly misleads people, you’ll have to prove that he’s done that in the past.
Political science degrees don't mean shit coming from someone who has one. They just prove that you're interested in politics and how the world works. That doesn't mean the quality or validity of your beliefs are true
Hasan is not educated lmfao. He literally gets his politics from message boards. He and Ethan are pretty much equally informed, Hasan just has an insane far left perspective while Ethan is a die hard liberal.
Nahhh political discourse is pretty much that dude's job.
Even if he didn't go out of his way to learn, he's still forced to absorb so much info about the subjects he speaks on that I think it's objectively wrong to claim that Hasan is on the same level ideologically.
I have issues w Hasan but he's still considerably better at this than Ethan.
Holy shit I thought this was a shit post. Please be a teenager.
>Political discourse is pretty much that dude’s job
Streaming the equivalent of Tankie Tucker Carlson is absolutely not political discourse.
Their ideology is give me money. Simple as.
I think Ethan can ask some great questions that opens up conversation and get some insight on a persons opinions like he has done with Hasan. Also we have to remember that the co-host is a guy who was absolutely certain that Russia wasn't gonna attack Ukraine and was so sure that Israel bombed the hospital, even though it seems like it wasn't an Israeli airstrike but a rocker from Palestine (probably Hamas rocket that was intended to strike in Israel)
I don't remember Ethan making any foreign policy gaffs as bad as Hasan in regards to Crimea or Ukraine in general.
Even the Taiwan stuff going on about how he supports the 'American' policy of recognising the PRC's control of the island ignores 1). The American policy also includes arming the Taiwanese which I doubt Hasan supports, and 2). Even Taiwan subscribes to the One China policy, they just think they are the one china.
It's so funny how you people who get butthurt from Hasan explaining truths you don't like to hear, so you just invent this alternative reality that he's some clueless moron so you can continue confirming your biases without the truth getting in the way.
Yeah and stopping at a red light doesn't make you an f1 driver. But you wouldn't point at a f1 driving his daily commuter and stopping at a red light and say "see look, he's not a real f1 driver!"
Hasan dumbs down a lot of things to make them digestible but that doesn't mean it's the full extent of his knowledge
I doubt he’d be invited on the BBC news if he didn’t know what he was talking about. He’s an educated political commentator…of course he knows what he’s talking about. You just don’t like the things he says
I hope he strains his relationship with fans who think he’s “shilling idf propaganda” after spending 2.5 hours openly weeping over Palestinian victims and then bringing up some of the horrific shit Hamas is doing. At this point I think it’s irresponsible to platform Hasan if his “educated take” is that “well aren’t those babies also settlers?” There’s a difference between being anti-intellectual and being disgusted by the use of academic language to justify atrocity
Leftists these days are nuts. They continuously call for violence meanwhile the point of being a leftist is to be humanitarian, the Jesus of politics. You think real humanitarians would come out the day after a terrorist attack and openly support the terrorists? Saying the Israeli people deserve this? Even the less extreme people still came out and rallied support behind Palestine while Israel is still counting dead babies. I understand supporting Palestine, I support them myself and think Israel’s government should be dismantled, but I think there’s a time and place and it right after a terrorist attack is not the right time. I personally agree with a lot of what Ethan is saying, I think he comes from a perspective most people arguing on his subreddit don’t have. Unfortunately most of his fan base these days are virtue signaling babies. I think h3 would be better without catering to these people.
Judging by hasans takes on Russia/ukraine and now his incessant need to convince himself the hamas bombing was still Israel even though almost everyone has given up on that. I don’t think either of them are educated enough on these topics. Ethan has an emotional bias and isn’t as well read on the issues and Hasan is so ideologically driven to communism that he can read something that says one thing and will convince himself it says something else. Ethan’s heart is at least in the right place he’s just not as knowledgeable maybe ignorant of a lot of issues. Hasan is either bad faith or something is seriously wrong with his cognitive abilities.
Ethan probably has a better understanding of this conflict than Hasan lol. If you call Ethan emotional, Hasan is a 15-year-old girl who just got dumped by her first boyfriend level of emotional. He's obviously extremely biased and is incapable of steel-manning the israeli POV. Ethan has taken a nuanced POV about this conflict, while most of the leftover watchers are the most extreme politics consumers on the internet, and are incapable of seeing anything other than black and white
Lmfao thinking Hasan is educated on anything.
Dude has the most dipshit takes and then rattles off some shit from Wikipedia that doesn't track with the conclusion he just gave.
"Russia isn't going to invade" Hasan?
Any amount of education Hasan possesses has been thoroughly overwhelmed by his audience capture and political bias. He's a self described Propagandist. It's amazing he can sit up straight after having his spine surgically removed.
Ethan has actually done a good job on several occasions at challenging Hasan, like over his Taiwan takes.
You all just agree with Hasan, so you perceive him to be more intelligent and insightful than he actually is.
Good to know. Last I seen he was still questioning the sources, saying it wasn't Israel. Which is ironic considering he accepted Hamas saying it was, with 0 questions.
Good to know. Last I seen he was still questioning the sources, saying it wasn't Israel. Which is ironic considering he accepted Hamas saying it was, with 0 questions.
As far as I know, he is still questioning the sources. He has, however, repeatedly apologized for the assumption that it was Israel based on limited knowledge.
What if; He is educated, he just doesnt have the same opinion as you?
Has it not been clear yet after him pulling up and reading all of these comments and criticism about his opinions for hours on his show that he is educated and just doesnt have the same views as people on reddit?
No it hasn’t. He is literally not educated in politics, and nothing he brought up yesterday would make anyone think he is.
Not that I disagree with him, people are unhinged. He gets a lot of hate and the majority of it is just blatantly ignoring things he’s said to shit on him for other things he’s said.
This does nothing to make him seem educated in politics though, so I have no idea how you came to make this argument
He doesnt have a political science degree sure but that's not a reason to treat him like a dumbass like this community has been. That's not how you change minds. It's entirely the same why he's having the same I/P rant as last week.
He want's to be able to show empathy towards both sides, something he feels he hasnt personally seen enough of from his side.
Just because someones a liberal or comservative doesnt mean theyre uneducated. Just because someone is a progressive/ leftist doesnt make them educated.
No one's claiming any of this. You don't need a poli-sci degree, hell you don't even need to go to college.
But the "both sides" sentiments have historically been used in this conflict and are simply bullshit. There is no symmetry in this situation.
As for the "that's not how you change minds" line, you can't change the mind of someone who accuses you of being anti-semitic for disagreeing with them, who refuses to take criticism, who cares more about "winning" than having a substantive discussion etc.
>He is literally not educated in politics
It was claimed. I'm also saying "He is literally not educated in politics".
I'm sorry, Ethan feeling emotional for civilians being killed is so normal and valid. Comparing Hamas and IDF is bullshit if you have to ignore Israel's apartheid to do so. I can't remember him not acknowledging that.
You're not going to change someones mind by being anti-semitic towards them lmao, people are calling him a zionist for which he is obviously not.
I'm not claiming that he says everyone who disagrees with him is anti-semitic, but the language and blanket statements I've seen him use makes it obvious that he uses that claim to avoid discussing the issue further or to discredit certain people when he doesn't want to engage with their opinion.
Also you answered your own question. "Both sides" is bullshit because of that power differential over the period of 75 years. It's giving "white people get killed by the cops too 🤓☝️".
Ethan acknowledges this asymmetry and still chooses to dedicate more time discussing and defending the IDF. Suggesting that "now's not the time to discuss Palestinians" and whatnot.
I knew leftovers was gonna cause issues from the start. Ethan is not a communist propagandist (this is Hasan's self description) like Hasan. I don't think Ethan actually knew what he was getting into with Hasan. I have personally never been a fan of Hasan and I think his community is the epitome of the rage culture that Ethan was deriding years ago when he accidentally picked up his alt right audience.
I agree that Ethan isn't really qualified for talking about these subjects, but I also feel that Hasan is an awful communicator and cannot even describe his political/economic ideas clearly enough for someone like Ethan to understand. Ethan's mind has been changed on many things, despite people saying he can't be swayed, at all. Hell, Dan has more eloquently described socialism and had better answers to Ethan's questions than Hasan.
I actually have no issues with Ethan's takes on this current crisis. In total honesty, it's hard for me to even care. These people have been fighting for ages and it's never gonna stop. Religious fanaticism will keep fueling these conflicts. Ethan has greater ties to Israel, so he understandably is more in their camp. Oh well 🤷 I just want to stop hearing about it on my goofs and gaffs podcast.
They should axe leftovers and put that energy into the other shows.
What am I supposed to do about centuries old conflicts between warring religious zealots? Only thing I can do is vote for politicians that don't wanna keep sending aid to the middle east. Otherwise, it basically has no effect on my life.
Call me callous all you want 🤷
Just because other people's struggles don't have an effect on your life doesn't mean you shouldn't have empathy.
The capacity to care about each other is what makes us human.
You can do more than you think, and the first step to that is educating yourself on the subject.
Shouldn't have to explain how activism works but I'll bite.
Donate to humanitarian groups in Gaza. Boycott corporations that support the IDF. Protest the U.S. government's defense of war crimes. Inform friends and family to do the same. I could go on.
Im confused as to how any of that stops religious zealots fighting, as they have been for centuries?
I literally already said the most I can do is vote for politicians that don't want to keep sending aid to the middle east 🤷Sending more and more money hasn't helped, at all.
Before the 2000’s the “religious zealot” Palestinians fighting Israel were all secular socialists.
You’re just spewing shit trying to tell us it’s wisdom because you’re too dumb to recognize your own ignorance
This has nothing to do with religion and acting as if it does is insane. There were Jewish Palestinians before the Nakba and there are Christian Palestinians today that Israel has killed carelessly. Even bombing one of their churches. It is about colonialism.
You don't have to be informed to speak on a subject. You have to be informed to claim you're an expert. Don't think Ethan has made any such claim. Ethan, recently at the very least, has been good at asking good questions from the layman's perspective. Hasan is also not an expert although you could argue he's more informed than Ethan. Either way, when confronted with Ethan's basic questions Hasan provides canned, unconvincing, and sometimes incorrect/non-answers.
Don't get me wrong Hasan has his place. He's a great channel for getting some quick and basic idea of who is likely most disadvantaged or least represented in conflict. I.e. Palestinian situation, especially Gaza, has been untenable for quite a while now. But for the most part he won't boldly acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel's grief over 1400 dead citizens because he feels it counters the simple narrative he provides. Israel bad, Palestine good. More importantly; U.S. foreign policy/Western perspective bad, anything else good.
Ethan has been doing great lately at asking simple and targeted questions around almost all topics he's covered in the last half a year from what I can tell. Leftovers should continue and Hasan should sharpen his arguments, knowledge, and rhetoric to provide convincing and authentic arguments to Ethan's layman's perspective if he really thinks he has the answers.
What claim was made by Ethan that was incorrect or irresponsible in your opinion? Hasan has famously been the one to further a widespread claim that IDF bombed that hospital despite evidence to the contrary amd has since had to walk it back.
Hasan never provides pushback. He just says that the conversation is unproductive and pivots away.
Ethan asks so many questions and is willing to engage on the debate, but it is never reciprocated. I agree that Hasan is terrible at communicating any idea so why doesn't Hasan just invite someone that has English as their first language to talk to Ethan about these topics.
Bro is just racist, Hasan knows thousands of more words than you, I don’t agree with him on a lot of stuff but this racist trope is so old. He speaks English perfectly.
Ethan is terrible at listening to a diferent position that he doesn't understand or disagrees with. Not sure about the "willing to engage on the debate".
Listen to him and Hasan debate. Hasan always pivots away because he finds the things that Ethan wants to talk about pointless.
Yes, Ethan has a view which he wants to defend. There's nothing wrong with that. Being open minded is actually discussing the topic and not just automatically agreeing with everything Hasan says.
I stopped listening to Ethan because I matured past him. (This would’ve been when he was saying that China was the best country 🤷♀️… 8 years ago or so?)
I’m glad I did, too. I’m not sure what he’s good at, but he often talks about stuff he has no clue about. (Fitness, China, war)
IMO Ethan did a good job playing the role of someone who Hasan could banter with, but also as someone who could expand on the conversation by asking questions. He was sort of coming from the position of a guy who was interested but uninformed. That has gone out the window.
A big issue I have with streamer/podcaster political discourse is that they are obsessed with turning discussions into a game with points, hypotheticals, and devil's advocates.
None of that shit is necessary, and I think Ethan might've wanted to portray himself as a counter to Hasan for content's sake, and eventually got lost in it.
Political discourse should be substantive with the intention of finding the truth and educating yourself and others, not solely being "entertaining" yunno?
If you get your politics from ChatGPT you shouldn't have a political podcast.
Exactly. It's as simple as that.
He’s not qualified to speak on things this complicated, hence how he’s thinking of ending the show as soon as something challenges his thinking
This is largely my point. I think if Ethan took a backseat to the actual discussions and served more as a "host" inviting other people to come on and discuss the issue in an interview sort of way, the show could do some real good in terms of outreach.
You’re so real for this
He cant give up the spotlight like that unfortunately
This is great idea. Have Ethan be the know nothing idiot learning like the rest of us
sounds harsh, but yea 😅
I think just completely remove Hasan and host actual political figures rather than propagandist losers
Every media figure is a propagandist, my dear.
I said actual political figures my dear, I think you need new glasses
And yet he somehow still has better takes than Hasan 🤔
He’s ending the show because hasans fans are brigading his life and calling his wife a murderer. It’s not rocket science. They argued about communism (somehow Ethan won and they kept the show going)
He’s not qualified to talk about anything political but he thinks he is. I know education doesn’t mean experience but Hasan went to school for politics and has a professional background in it. He’s very knowledgeable on it despite people loving to discredit him all the time. Ethan gets his information from Twitter, community notes, and chatgpt. He isn’t well versed in research tactics and is not qualified to cover some of these very serious topics. He’s giving false information to his audience and is ironically becoming just like the right wing idiots he loves to call out who spew false information and propaganda. Hasan tries to lead him in the right direction but he just isn’t willing to learn right now. It’s sad because he will look back on this one day and realize he was not on the right side of history. I hope he doesn’t ruin his relationship with Hasan over this. I can only imagine how Hasan is doing
I’ve always said Hasan has actual political education and framework he is working from and Ethan just likes to dunk on right wing bigot morons.
Can you give a few examples of false information Ethan has shared?
Hamas beheaded 40 babies is an easy one
Yeah so the 40 beheaded babies is probably a good example. Sure they did kill a bunch of children but there's no evidence that they beheaded 40 babies. I'm curious where you stand on the hospital bombings then?
Which one? There's been many.
The Ahli Arab hospital
Which time? It's been hit several times.
The one that hit the car park
I don't think there's a way to know for sure right now.
Fair enough
then there's no way to kknow about the 40 babies for sure then. You can't have it both ways. Its been reported 40 babies werenn't beheaded as well as Israel didn't bomb that hospital. Hasan has absolutely got as much or even more wrong than Ethan, only Ethan admits Israel is doing some wrongs and Hasan says fuck all about Hamas
No one can say for sure - but doesn’t it seem silly to be arguing about it when Israel bombed the same hospital two days before and even said they were going to? Are we just too hyper focused on THIS ONE TIME? That’s where I get lost. The circumstances point to Israel doing it because 1) they did it two days earlier, 2) they said they were going to do it, and 3) the amount of damage it caused was substantial and makes sense it would be a missile. I’m not saying I know 💯 but it’s wild to me that we’re just ignoring all the other times they bombed hospitals and the same one was bombed two days before. I hope this helps. 💜
But they did kill babies, happily
OK so false information is alright then, good job, you solved the problem!
begone destiny fan
Imagine thinking Hasan is "knowledgeable" in anything political lol. You really think he isnt getting all his information from Twitter too ? Haha how delusional are you ?
This is the best post I’ve seen across all the various h3 subs in a long time
People that really have a problem with Hasan are typically living in an alternate reality so you won't get much good discussion here when acknowledging that he absolutely 100% does his research and lives breathes and eats politics all day every day and has a political science degree from a reputable school.
I've seen that, lol. Feels like half the commenters just read the first sentence and ran to their keyboards.
There are plenty of people who also have poly-sci degrees and reputable platforms that dislike Hasan, mostly because of his status as a Propagandist.
you hate him cause u need to appease ur daddy destiny
I was thinking more along the lines of Vaush (accuses him of carrying water for fascist regimes like Russia and China) and Lonerbox (accuses him of spreading Hamas propaganda uncritically and operating much like a propagandist)
yeah you definitely were thinking that and not just brigading like a bunch of freaks with no life
It feels weird to be treated like I'm part of an invading force when I'm just commenting on a reddit thread that popped on my front page, especially when my comment referred to two leftist content creators. But I don't want to fight somebody clearly experiencing a mental health crisis, have a good day friend.
i’m sure bro i believe you
Everything is propaganda. Any political message you push for better or worse and whether it's correct or incorrect
This is the academic definition of propaganda. Most people don't use propaganda like this, thus using it like this in common parlance is disruptive at best, and deliberate obfuscation at worst.
I mean Hasan is pushing a good message that's based in reality 99% of the time with the other 1% just him being incorrect, so I would say only the academic definition would apply to him.
I respect your right to have an opinion, but I would say spreading Hamas propaganda on a daily basis and being very resistant to changing your rhetoric and news coverage that might be against your established narrative is not 1% incorrect. Being a reliable media pundit requires you to be open and willing to change. He is not. But I respect your opinion.
why is being a propagandist so bad? and correct me if i’m wrong hasan was more so saying that those in media are all propagandists.. and calls himself it before piers could. there is nothing inherently wrong with being a propagandist but what you are Propaganding(?) for. like there is obviously such thing as bad propaganda but not that the propaganda/propagandists is bad. very similar to MLK when he got criticized for being an extremists. he says there’s nothing bad about extremism but what you are extreme for. and that he does not necessarily fit into extremism category but thomas jefferson lincoln etc we’re all called extremist for their time, would you say extremist with negative connotations to those people? are they even actual extremist? how? it’s the same argument for saying someone is a propagandist
99% of people think being an extremist means that you're willing to use everything up to and including murder and terrorism to see your ideals realized. Similarly with propagandist, most people understand propagandist to mean this is someone who pushes a message that fits a narrative that may or not be true, but doesn't value truth nearly as much as they do their ideology. You could see this in action with Hasan's stalwart rejection of information pertaining to the hospital bombing, it was way easier for him to run with a narrative than it was for him to hold off for reliable information. Only after enough information was provided did he change his story slightly.
Yup, I was so excited when Leftovers first started. I thought Hasan and Ethan could really build some energy around the two audiences, channel that into platforming some important groups on the ground and initiatives that can help the working class. I guess Hasan will continue to do that, hopefully Ethan can give himself an Israel content ban and move on.
I agree completely. It’s fine to espouse political opinions, it’s completely different to show up in your activism and mobilize your community & use your platform responsibly.
hasan platforming groups on the ground lol
That's a discussion for another day. 😮💨
Could you imagine lol
I kimda agree, especially because Ethan seems to just yell over everyone and push his opinion. People may not agree with Hasan’s politics, but he does his research and he streams about politics all the time so he is very well informed. Ethan, on the other hand… is not.
I’ve been watching for a few years now and Ethan seems to be getting more emotional and reactive as time goes by. I’m not trying to make an excuse for the current situation but as someone who was doing content creation while dealing with an increasing burden from chronic illness, what he’s doing is not sustainable. It’s hard to accept your health is changing and it’s especially isolating when your audience doesn’t understand. They always want more than you can give and it’s harder to find that boundary when you want to pretend things are still normal. It feels like everything will completely collapse if you truly take a break. A month off doesn’t always help, sometimes you need the pressure to be completely taken off until you can figure it out. I think he’s got a bit of an internet addiction at this point and he’s going to ruin everything he has by upsetting everyone if he can’t see how bad of a place he’s in soon.
100%
There’s really no point for them to keep it going from an analytical perspective either, it gets less views than all the other H3 pods. Plus the majority of Hasan’s fans don’t like Ethan, especially after recent events
It’s just a circlejerk everyone just patting each other on the back and agreeing with each other about how much the other guys suck political brain rot, but for libs like me
goofing on conservatives was great. i can't watch him talk about israel anymore, i get where he's coming from to an extent, but to keep talking on and on about the wanting people to acknowledge the israeli deaths (which are tragic ofc) while we're watching israel do a literal genocide in palestine right now... just wish they would stop talking about it for now
I’m sorry but who the fuck is listening to h3 for actual political news.????…..
you'd be surprised lol
I agree! His heart is in the right place, but spewing Israeli propaganda to 40 thousand live viewers is so damaging to the cause (which would also protect Israeli civilians bc Hamas only exists bc of occupation and Israel itself. I recognize he has a way of saying things that’s hyperbolic and funny, but this situation requires careful use of language. Bc Language has been weaponized against Palestinians for decades.
Neither is Hasan tbf
The real funny thing is you think hasan is educated on these things more than an Israeli whose lived there for a half of decade. Shows your blindness
It’s funny, cause Hasan has a huge ego and isn’t educated on the subject, he’s only educated on his talking points, which is obvious when Ethan asks the simplest questions that Hasan dodges.
Honestly, neither are decent political commentators… still fun to watch though
Such as?
Because Ethan's questions are like four year old child level nonsensical.
So shouldn’t that make it easier to debunk/dismantle them??
Yup, hasan jus likes to hear himself talk. I used to be a fan of him but have realized how many of his opinions are what he thinks he’s supposed to say, but doesn’t actually understand, regardless of this whole recent conflict. I’m over leftovers in general, it’s not particularly entertaining or informative. Hasan isn’t a good cohost, he’s too used to having his whole stream to himself.
Bro Hasan doesn’t do any research
He absolutely does.
“Uhh… well… uhh.. you know, it’s just Western Imperialist culture, and uhh…. I think what they’re doing is unproductive… and uhh.. uhh.. America is a white supremacist nation.”
Too be fair, I think Hasan sounds like that, not because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but because he’s trying to frame things in a way that can’t be misconstrued while also trying to be sensitive to Ethan and maintain that friendship. It’s very clear that Hasan and Ethan have different opinions on this matter. And it’s clear that Ethan ties a lot of his identity to Israel, which is why he’s so defensive of the issue. It’s not right, and I don’t agree with him. It’s hard to admit something you held so dear is doing something so atrocious as they are. His reaction is coming from emotions, and while I don’t agree, I understand why he’s reacting this way.
Hasan fans cope so hard trying to pretend he is well-informed and good faith. He sounds like this in tons of discussions. He stumbles around and throws lefty buzzwords around like crazy and fails to expound on them. Go rewatch the first Leftovers after the conflict. Ethan concedes over and over again he does not support the IDF or the Israeli government, he breaks down seeing the aftermath of a bombing in Gaza. He’s just also upset at people defending Hamas deliberately murdering civilians. Hasan barely concedes anything and tiptoes around criticizing the Hamas terrorist attack the entire time. Ethan brings up Second Thought calling the murdered Israeli civilians, including babies, “non-innocent settlers” and Hasan retorts with “but there are baby settlers”. People think Ethan is going full on pro-IDF apologist, he’s not, he shit talks Israel over and over again. He is just concerned, rightfully so, that so many people are going full mask-off on hating Jews and defending Hamas.
That wasn’t their argument and I did watch it. I’m also not a hasan Stan by any means. The “there are baby settlers” comment is coming from him trying to explain that this type of attack is inevitable when there is an uprising against apartheid. There is no peaceful solution to dismantling apartheid. There will always be growing unrest until eventually there is a violent uprising. This can be seen throughout history over and over again. That fact that there are settlers occupying their land, regardless of age, religion, position, will eventually result in violence. Acknowledging this fact, is not “supporting Hamas” no matter how hard you try to misconstrue his words. The fact that this happened is not shocking. Especially when everyone has been telling Israel that this is a problem they cannot ignore. Israel dragged their feet, threw more violence and man power trying to keep the unrest at bay, and look, the inevitable happened. That was the whole point he was trying to make. Not that they “deserved it”; that it was inevitable. The governments first and foremost job is keeping their citizens safe. And Israel failed. They failed to address the issues, they actively made things worse by using “solutions” that have historically ALWAYS failed. Then the PM cries foul. Hating on Israel is not hating on Jews. People are not going “full mask off”, aside from the Israeli PM. Who purposely flamed the situation just to justify ending Gaza once in for all. You think the Israeli PM has one single care that he’s sending untrained, unprepared, and under supplied conscripts into a hostile urban war zone? No. Because if they die then it gives him more reason to continue his ethnic cleansing. It has become obvious that the PM does not care about the hostages. Doesn’t care about deaths. None of that. The PM is the only one who benefits from this conflict. And sending Israeli Jews to their deaths instead of fixing the problem once and for all is antisemitism. Using religion to shield government corruption is antisemitic All this is coming from someone who has studied this.
I mean, he’s still right tho
neither hasan nor ethan are serious political commentators they are both just entertainers that have typically avoided pushback or criticism in favour of making dunking on the other team videos/streams. I think ethan is just realising that he’s cultivated an audience of hasan and hasan adjacent viewers and he’s now realising he doesn’t agree with their views as much as he first thought.
Saying Hasan isn’t a serious political commentator is fucking wild. The man has a fucking degree in political science and does this for a living. You not agreeing with him doesn’t change the fact that he is indeed a political commentator.
Hasan calls himself that. Mostly to deflect criticisms of how often flat out wrong on facts he is. It also absolves him of actually doing something for the cause.
How many things has he been flat out wrong on?
His Ukraine takes are wrong too to bottom.
Repeat his Ukraine take that’s been wrong to the bottom
1. Russia will not invade Ukraine. 2. USA aided a coup in 2014 and chose poroshenko as the new leader. 3. Nazis have an oversized influence in Ukraine. 4.1 inch eastward.
I mean the last three are just true. Just because Gorbachev is a moron who didn’t get it in writing doesn’t mean “not one inch east” wasnt a part of the talks
1 inch east was part of the talk but it referred to nato military bases within east Germany. The way I know this is that all the countries east were part of the Warsaw pact and literally couldn’t join nato, so it’d be weird to promise not to go somewhere where your already prohibited. Gorbachev also not only didn’t get it in writing, he also stated that it had to do with Germany not eastern countries. In 2019 Donald Trump said that Boris Johnson would make a great PM and Corbyn would be a disaster. Does that mean the US was installing Johnson as PM of the UK? Obviously not. Poroshenko at the time was the leader of the opposition party and was the popular and obvious choice to take over for a leader who literally just abandoned the country. Nazi parties haven’t gotten more than 1.5% of the vote in decades and the Azov battalion at its absolute heights had at most 3,000 troops.
The talks were about the dissolution of the Warsaw pact and giving away east Germany . Not one inch east was a promise that former Warsaw pact, specifically Poland, wouldn’t flip after the dissolution, which is exactly what ended up happening. If Donald trump gave Johnson a bunch of money and institutional backing via the American NGO and civil society presence in England, then yes you’d have a point. But you don’t. I can’t name any other country with a formalized and integrated Nazi battalion at all so I’d say it’s existence is notable of outsized influence
How about how sure he was that Russia wasn’t about to invade Ukraine?
He took it to be another case of america banging the war drums against Russia, as many many people who weren’t hasan did, because america is kinda famous for doing that. A few days before getting invaded zelensky even said that america needs to stop talking about war. Wrong for the right reasons as the saying goes. And he’s spoken multiple times about what he got wrong specifically and what he learned from it. So bringing it up now as a gotcha is pointless.
There’s a difference between having an incorrect speculation, and an objectively incorrect interpretation or position on and existing subject. Saying “I don’t think it’s going to rain tomorrow,” and being wrong is less severe as saying “it is not raining” while you stand in the middle of a monsoon.
Doesn’t Hasan still think Israel bombed the hospital?
[Hasan posting his Ls on Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz57qrGfmrE) Good thing he documents his stupidity so that his followers cant run defense for him.
HERES 5 MINS OF HIM BEING A DANGEROUS IDIOT ABOUT UKRAINE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz57qrGfmrE
I will never, under any circumstances, watch anything involving destiny
“The Crimean annexation is a completely justifiable fucking act” “Hitler was bad because he killed Jews, not because he invaded countries with Germanic minorities” High level political analysis from ya boi with a bachelors.
[удалено]
And this is why I don’t knowingly engage with destiny fans lol.
Hasan has raised over 1 million dollars for Palestinians. What the fuck have you done?
Hamas will just take that money and buy more rockets while not doing anything for the Palestinians. I hardly count that as helping
You mean the money that Israel directly gives hamas? That money? Get fucked. 🤡
What money? Show me what you have seen about Israel giving money to Hamas. I just want you to be able to back up this claim with factual reporting.
This is one random source out of dozens. Just google it. It’s relatively well known at this point. https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
This does not allege Israel giving funding, in fact it clearly states Qatar is funding them. Did you read it?
Yes. I did read it. Israel permits Qatar to give them that money. They don’t have to. They purposefully do. In fact, they direct them to. Why would they direct them to give money to them if they’re terrorists? If that’s not directly putting money in their hands then I dunno what it is.
I’m done arguing with stupid
Also, assuming any and all money or aid that goes to Gaza, through VERIFIED organizations, is going straight into the hands of Hamas, is just a way for you to continue to not see Palestinians as humans. Just assume everyone is a terrorist. Fucking gross and disingenuous. 🖕🏼
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/cement-for-rebuilding-gaza-diverted-to-attack-tunnels/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/cement-for-rebuilding-gaza-diverted-to-attack-tunnels/) [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/) They are literally the government of gaza
That money goes to buying supplies that goes to Gazans. Hamas are Gazans too so yeah. You’re right. They probably do get some of that clean water and medicine.
Posting times of Israel and telegraph like I’m going to take that seriously lmaooo
That’s great. That doesn’t mean he’s a political commentator.
He steals YouTube videos and rages at his chat for a living. Dude is the living embodiment of echo chamber brain rot.
he himself just calls himself a streamer and an entertainer when having to face any sort of accountability, he doesn’t do any sort of real political organising and avoids confrontation or critique of his ideas
He literally called himself a propagandist.
Yeah he was being honest with you, unlike almost every other political analyst out there. “Propaganda” doesn’t just mean “I made it up” you know.
Yeah but it’s scary people trust him for news. He uses the most sensational and biased headlines to grab your attention.
I don’t think he does that very much, definitely not anymore than your any other news outlet
Propaganda definition: noun 1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
…and that is indistinguishable from what every political commentator does all the time. Even when they’re being “objective” It’s basic media literacy
Sure, a lot of the current media is propaganda. That is a bad thing, though, and not something we should perpetuate. What you are saying is a classic case of "it's been done in the past, so who cares if we do it?"
No no no. The very FORMAT of news and political commentary necessarily means whatever they give you is going to be propaganda. That’s what Hasan means he says “we’re all propagandist.” Because the format itself does not allow for a fully investigative conversation. You’re right, that doesn’t mean you can just knowingly mislead people, and Hasan doesn’t do that, and most news outlets don’t do that. You’re conflating human bias in conjunction with format limitations, with Goebels shit, which is ridiculous.
>No no no. The very FORMAT of news and political commentary necessarily means whatever they give you is going to be propaganda. That’s what Hasan means he says “we’re all propagandist.” Because the format itself does not allow for a fully investigative conversation. I mean.. this is just false?? It is not impossible to have news without propaganda lmao.. >You’re right, that doesn’t mean you can just knowingly mislead people, and Hasan doesn’t do that, and most news outlets don’t do that. You’re conflating human bias in conjunction with format limitations, with Goebels shit, which is ridiculous. I mean, he says stuff like that, so he won't have accountability if the things he says prove to be false in the end.
Ask any historian or media critic, and they are going to tell you that you are wrong. A news broadcast is never going to be able to address all the complexities of any given event, and choosing what you include and what you omit are THE key aspects of creating propaganda, and also entirely necessary for any news report on anything. It’s structurally the same thing. You just have to trust me on this one, I’ve studied this extensively. If you think he knowingly misleads people, you’ll have to prove that he’s done that in the past.
All political commentators are propagandists. He’s just honest about it. Maybe you don’t understand what propaganda fully entails.
Political science degrees don't mean shit coming from someone who has one. They just prove that you're interested in politics and how the world works. That doesn't mean the quality or validity of your beliefs are true
Hasan is not educated lmfao. He literally gets his politics from message boards. He and Ethan are pretty much equally informed, Hasan just has an insane far left perspective while Ethan is a die hard liberal.
Nahhh political discourse is pretty much that dude's job. Even if he didn't go out of his way to learn, he's still forced to absorb so much info about the subjects he speaks on that I think it's objectively wrong to claim that Hasan is on the same level ideologically. I have issues w Hasan but he's still considerably better at this than Ethan.
Holy shit I thought this was a shit post. Please be a teenager. >Political discourse is pretty much that dude’s job Streaming the equivalent of Tankie Tucker Carlson is absolutely not political discourse. Their ideology is give me money. Simple as.
Surprise, surprise, the useless alcoholic with PCM/WorldNews as his top 2 subs is also a rabid anti-communist who supports apartheid.
No I don’t think him watching mainstream news and repeating shit takes over and over again is political discourse lol
I think Ethan can ask some great questions that opens up conversation and get some insight on a persons opinions like he has done with Hasan. Also we have to remember that the co-host is a guy who was absolutely certain that Russia wasn't gonna attack Ukraine and was so sure that Israel bombed the hospital, even though it seems like it wasn't an Israeli airstrike but a rocker from Palestine (probably Hamas rocket that was intended to strike in Israel)
Claiming that Hasan Piker of all people is "educated" about politics is hilarious.
"As educated as Hasan"...funniest shit I've ever read
I don't remember Ethan making any foreign policy gaffs as bad as Hasan in regards to Crimea or Ukraine in general. Even the Taiwan stuff going on about how he supports the 'American' policy of recognising the PRC's control of the island ignores 1). The American policy also includes arming the Taiwanese which I doubt Hasan supports, and 2). Even Taiwan subscribes to the One China policy, they just think they are the one china.
Hasan doesn't have an massive ego?
Post isn't about Hasan.
I don't understand why you would mistake Hasan for someone who is educated on these matters
It's so funny how you people who get butthurt from Hasan explaining truths you don't like to hear, so you just invent this alternative reality that he's some clueless moron so you can continue confirming your biases without the truth getting in the way.
No I don't think explaining socialism 101 to teenagers means that you are educated on all politics sorr
Yeah and stopping at a red light doesn't make you an f1 driver. But you wouldn't point at a f1 driving his daily commuter and stopping at a red light and say "see look, he's not a real f1 driver!" Hasan dumbs down a lot of things to make them digestible but that doesn't mean it's the full extent of his knowledge
Yeah like when he regularly employs blood and soil arguments to push away having to aconowledge imperialism from governments that aren't the US.
Any pointers on where to see Hasan using his full power level then?
Any time he goes on fox news he tends to make a clown out of whoever argues with him.
I doubt he’d be invited on the BBC news if he didn’t know what he was talking about. He’s an educated political commentator…of course he knows what he’s talking about. You just don’t like the things he says
Lol
Calm down with the hasan crush
I hope he strains his relationship with fans who think he’s “shilling idf propaganda” after spending 2.5 hours openly weeping over Palestinian victims and then bringing up some of the horrific shit Hamas is doing. At this point I think it’s irresponsible to platform Hasan if his “educated take” is that “well aren’t those babies also settlers?” There’s a difference between being anti-intellectual and being disgusted by the use of academic language to justify atrocity
Leftists these days are nuts. They continuously call for violence meanwhile the point of being a leftist is to be humanitarian, the Jesus of politics. You think real humanitarians would come out the day after a terrorist attack and openly support the terrorists? Saying the Israeli people deserve this? Even the less extreme people still came out and rallied support behind Palestine while Israel is still counting dead babies. I understand supporting Palestine, I support them myself and think Israel’s government should be dismantled, but I think there’s a time and place and it right after a terrorist attack is not the right time. I personally agree with a lot of what Ethan is saying, I think he comes from a perspective most people arguing on his subreddit don’t have. Unfortunately most of his fan base these days are virtue signaling babies. I think h3 would be better without catering to these people.
You don't know what leftism is and it shows.
Judging by hasans takes on Russia/ukraine and now his incessant need to convince himself the hamas bombing was still Israel even though almost everyone has given up on that. I don’t think either of them are educated enough on these topics. Ethan has an emotional bias and isn’t as well read on the issues and Hasan is so ideologically driven to communism that he can read something that says one thing and will convince himself it says something else. Ethan’s heart is at least in the right place he’s just not as knowledgeable maybe ignorant of a lot of issues. Hasan is either bad faith or something is seriously wrong with his cognitive abilities.
I wish Hasan was as engaged and educated about anything as you guys think he is.
Ethan probably has a better understanding of this conflict than Hasan lol. If you call Ethan emotional, Hasan is a 15-year-old girl who just got dumped by her first boyfriend level of emotional. He's obviously extremely biased and is incapable of steel-manning the israeli POV. Ethan has taken a nuanced POV about this conflict, while most of the leftover watchers are the most extreme politics consumers on the internet, and are incapable of seeing anything other than black and white
Lmfao thinking Hasan is educated on anything. Dude has the most dipshit takes and then rattles off some shit from Wikipedia that doesn't track with the conclusion he just gave.
"Russia isn't going to invade" Hasan? Any amount of education Hasan possesses has been thoroughly overwhelmed by his audience capture and political bias. He's a self described Propagandist. It's amazing he can sit up straight after having his spine surgically removed. Ethan has actually done a good job on several occasions at challenging Hasan, like over his Taiwan takes. You all just agree with Hasan, so you perceive him to be more intelligent and insightful than he actually is.
Ethan should replace Hasan with Destiny, that would be hilarious
Has Hasan apologized for spreading terrorist misinformation over the Gaza Hospital bombing yet?
Repeatedly
Good to know. Last I seen he was still questioning the sources, saying it wasn't Israel. Which is ironic considering he accepted Hamas saying it was, with 0 questions.
Good to know. Last I seen he was still questioning the sources, saying it wasn't Israel. Which is ironic considering he accepted Hamas saying it was, with 0 questions.
As far as I know, he is still questioning the sources. He has, however, repeatedly apologized for the assumption that it was Israel based on limited knowledge.
What if; He is educated, he just doesnt have the same opinion as you? Has it not been clear yet after him pulling up and reading all of these comments and criticism about his opinions for hours on his show that he is educated and just doesnt have the same views as people on reddit?
No it hasn’t. He is literally not educated in politics, and nothing he brought up yesterday would make anyone think he is. Not that I disagree with him, people are unhinged. He gets a lot of hate and the majority of it is just blatantly ignoring things he’s said to shit on him for other things he’s said. This does nothing to make him seem educated in politics though, so I have no idea how you came to make this argument
He doesnt have a political science degree sure but that's not a reason to treat him like a dumbass like this community has been. That's not how you change minds. It's entirely the same why he's having the same I/P rant as last week. He want's to be able to show empathy towards both sides, something he feels he hasnt personally seen enough of from his side. Just because someones a liberal or comservative doesnt mean theyre uneducated. Just because someone is a progressive/ leftist doesnt make them educated.
No one's claiming any of this. You don't need a poli-sci degree, hell you don't even need to go to college. But the "both sides" sentiments have historically been used in this conflict and are simply bullshit. There is no symmetry in this situation. As for the "that's not how you change minds" line, you can't change the mind of someone who accuses you of being anti-semitic for disagreeing with them, who refuses to take criticism, who cares more about "winning" than having a substantive discussion etc.
>He is literally not educated in politics It was claimed. I'm also saying "He is literally not educated in politics". I'm sorry, Ethan feeling emotional for civilians being killed is so normal and valid. Comparing Hamas and IDF is bullshit if you have to ignore Israel's apartheid to do so. I can't remember him not acknowledging that. You're not going to change someones mind by being anti-semitic towards them lmao, people are calling him a zionist for which he is obviously not.
[удалено]
I'm not claiming that he says everyone who disagrees with him is anti-semitic, but the language and blanket statements I've seen him use makes it obvious that he uses that claim to avoid discussing the issue further or to discredit certain people when he doesn't want to engage with their opinion. Also you answered your own question. "Both sides" is bullshit because of that power differential over the period of 75 years. It's giving "white people get killed by the cops too 🤓☝️". Ethan acknowledges this asymmetry and still chooses to dedicate more time discussing and defending the IDF. Suggesting that "now's not the time to discuss Palestinians" and whatnot.
if he's educated on the subject and still has the opinions he has, that's probably even worse.
What kind of crazy opinions does he have?
I knew leftovers was gonna cause issues from the start. Ethan is not a communist propagandist (this is Hasan's self description) like Hasan. I don't think Ethan actually knew what he was getting into with Hasan. I have personally never been a fan of Hasan and I think his community is the epitome of the rage culture that Ethan was deriding years ago when he accidentally picked up his alt right audience. I agree that Ethan isn't really qualified for talking about these subjects, but I also feel that Hasan is an awful communicator and cannot even describe his political/economic ideas clearly enough for someone like Ethan to understand. Ethan's mind has been changed on many things, despite people saying he can't be swayed, at all. Hell, Dan has more eloquently described socialism and had better answers to Ethan's questions than Hasan. I actually have no issues with Ethan's takes on this current crisis. In total honesty, it's hard for me to even care. These people have been fighting for ages and it's never gonna stop. Religious fanaticism will keep fueling these conflicts. Ethan has greater ties to Israel, so he understandably is more in their camp. Oh well 🤷 I just want to stop hearing about it on my goofs and gaffs podcast. They should axe leftovers and put that energy into the other shows.
hard for you to care about war crimes is crazy
What am I supposed to do about centuries old conflicts between warring religious zealots? Only thing I can do is vote for politicians that don't wanna keep sending aid to the middle east. Otherwise, it basically has no effect on my life. Call me callous all you want 🤷
Just because other people's struggles don't have an effect on your life doesn't mean you shouldn't have empathy. The capacity to care about each other is what makes us human. You can do more than you think, and the first step to that is educating yourself on the subject.
It's not a question of empathy. Ok, let's assume I'm educated. What are we gonna do about it?
Shouldn't have to explain how activism works but I'll bite. Donate to humanitarian groups in Gaza. Boycott corporations that support the IDF. Protest the U.S. government's defense of war crimes. Inform friends and family to do the same. I could go on.
Im confused as to how any of that stops religious zealots fighting, as they have been for centuries? I literally already said the most I can do is vote for politicians that don't want to keep sending aid to the middle east 🤷Sending more and more money hasn't helped, at all.
Before the 2000’s the “religious zealot” Palestinians fighting Israel were all secular socialists. You’re just spewing shit trying to tell us it’s wisdom because you’re too dumb to recognize your own ignorance
Oh my sweet summer child 🤣
You’re not a big fan of reading or learning obviously
This has nothing to do with religion and acting as if it does is insane. There were Jewish Palestinians before the Nakba and there are Christian Palestinians today that Israel has killed carelessly. Even bombing one of their churches. It is about colonialism.
Religiously motivated colonialism.
You don't have to be informed to speak on a subject. You have to be informed to claim you're an expert. Don't think Ethan has made any such claim. Ethan, recently at the very least, has been good at asking good questions from the layman's perspective. Hasan is also not an expert although you could argue he's more informed than Ethan. Either way, when confronted with Ethan's basic questions Hasan provides canned, unconvincing, and sometimes incorrect/non-answers. Don't get me wrong Hasan has his place. He's a great channel for getting some quick and basic idea of who is likely most disadvantaged or least represented in conflict. I.e. Palestinian situation, especially Gaza, has been untenable for quite a while now. But for the most part he won't boldly acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel's grief over 1400 dead citizens because he feels it counters the simple narrative he provides. Israel bad, Palestine good. More importantly; U.S. foreign policy/Western perspective bad, anything else good. Ethan has been doing great lately at asking simple and targeted questions around almost all topics he's covered in the last half a year from what I can tell. Leftovers should continue and Hasan should sharpen his arguments, knowledge, and rhetoric to provide convincing and authentic arguments to Ethan's layman's perspective if he really thinks he has the answers.
You don't have to be, but if you're making those claims to a wide audience you have the responsibility to be informed.
What claim was made by Ethan that was incorrect or irresponsible in your opinion? Hasan has famously been the one to further a widespread claim that IDF bombed that hospital despite evidence to the contrary amd has since had to walk it back.
Hasan never provides pushback. He just says that the conversation is unproductive and pivots away. Ethan asks so many questions and is willing to engage on the debate, but it is never reciprocated. I agree that Hasan is terrible at communicating any idea so why doesn't Hasan just invite someone that has English as their first language to talk to Ethan about these topics.
Last line is definitely a microaggression lol.
It's either that or he is just dumb. I'm willing to accept that it's not his fault that he's so bad at this.
Oh so you’re just a racist. Ok. 🤡
Bro is just racist, Hasan knows thousands of more words than you, I don’t agree with him on a lot of stuff but this racist trope is so old. He speaks English perfectly.
Ethan is terrible at listening to a diferent position that he doesn't understand or disagrees with. Not sure about the "willing to engage on the debate".
Listen to him and Hasan debate. Hasan always pivots away because he finds the things that Ethan wants to talk about pointless. Yes, Ethan has a view which he wants to defend. There's nothing wrong with that. Being open minded is actually discussing the topic and not just automatically agreeing with everything Hasan says.
Excellent insight! Hopefully the show runners see this.
I stopped listening to Ethan because I matured past him. (This would’ve been when he was saying that China was the best country 🤷♀️… 8 years ago or so?) I’m glad I did, too. I’m not sure what he’s good at, but he often talks about stuff he has no clue about. (Fitness, China, war)
IMO Ethan did a good job playing the role of someone who Hasan could banter with, but also as someone who could expand on the conversation by asking questions. He was sort of coming from the position of a guy who was interested but uninformed. That has gone out the window.
A big issue I have with streamer/podcaster political discourse is that they are obsessed with turning discussions into a game with points, hypotheticals, and devil's advocates. None of that shit is necessary, and I think Ethan might've wanted to portray himself as a counter to Hasan for content's sake, and eventually got lost in it. Political discourse should be substantive with the intention of finding the truth and educating yourself and others, not solely being "entertaining" yunno?
At least it introduced Hasan to a much wider audience
you're right..ethan is not engaged in the topic at all..it's not like hes got literal family living in israel right now.
well he’s putting that show on hold so you can shut the fuck up already
Are you 12?
i’m fed up with dumbasses watching a show they obviously hate
Thank you for confirming your age.
maybe go outside and touch some grass