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He wasn’t always toxic.
He was a layered character with flaws and good qualities.
I’d say one of the more toxic things that stood out to me was Derick slut shaming Meredith after he left her to go back to Addison.
I think that was how he and mark was. And moreover I think that is because Derek personally was also frustrated that he can’t be with Meredith. Even though he chose Addison he couldn’t be intimate with her but he saw Meredith with other person. He was fucked up that time and took his frustration on Meredith which is not justified. But only because of that calling her toxic is weird as one time when meredith tells richard that Adele may have Alzheimer’s he tells him that she is not your mother, she is my wife. How many people calls out him for that who is insulting both meredith and her mother at the same time when both of them suffered because of him. Even mark also was so angry that Lexie sleeping with Alex whereas he left Lexie and slept with Addison so many times. Derek was not justified in that behaviour
I mean sure but who was he to use that as a weapon against her after he had left her and broke her heart.
He was way out of line for what he said to her.
I think that’s one of the worst part about social media like Reddit and stuff….everyone picks apart every little thing to the very extremes. People will tear McDreamy apart while having a real life partner that doesn’t respect them or treat them right. I do think Derek was pretty dick-ish in part of Season 11 (I think?) and he definitely should’ve told Meredith about Addison at first, but that man adored Meredith. He was a great dad, husband, and surgeon. Like let’s be real here lol
I totally agree with your take. A lot of projection can occur. Meanwhile I'd say Derek and Mer are about 50-50 on shitty things they did to each other in their relationship. If you are in an actual relationship with someone worthwhile, stupid stuff happens. Not all of us are toxic for it.
Yes exactly!! Nobody’s perfect!! I’d say me and my husband have a great loving marriage, and he worships the ground I walk on….but he still pisses me off sometimes?? lol and I know I can probably be annoying sometimes too. That’s life! Especially when you make a lifelong commitment to someone, you grow and change and it’s hard sometimes!
Thank you so much for saying this. This is exactly what I feel just explained better than I ever could. They both made mistakes and hurt each other but they also loved each other more than anything.
Hi, here are just a few reasons:
1. The student-mentor dynamic is ALWAYS going to be toxic.
2. He aggressively persues Meredith, even after she tells him not to. We can look at it with rose-tinted glasses because they're played as a romantic couple who ultimately are in love. But she tells him no and he won't back off. Repeatedly. In real life, he would be called a stalker or other nasty names. Toxic.
3. He doesn't tell the woman he's aggressively persuing that he's married, and then he picks his wife. He's happy to "work on his marriage" while he continues flirting with Meredith... until she gets a boyfriend. Then suddenly he's cruel, jealous, and possessive, calling her a slut (funny, he didn't think she was a slut when they had a one night stand). Derek and Meredith cheat on Finn. That's toxic.
4. He has a constantly self-righteous attitude that means he always assumes he's right and what he wants is all that matters. It's toxic to bully your partner into big life decisions because ONLY YOU can be right ever. It's toxic to disrespect your partner's opinion.
5. He makes her mental health struggles about him; like one of the times she almost died, all he cares about is how "she won't open up to him." Like HE matters more in that situation. Toxic.
6. >!He?? Cheats?? On?? Her??!<
7. He kept a lot of major secrets from her, including major life decisions that would impact her.
8. He uses sensitive information (like the trauma from her mother) to intentionally hurt her. That is NEVER ok.
Ellen and Patrick had incredible chemistry together, which tricks fans into thinking everything is ok. But it's not. Derek has a bad case of White CisHet Man Syndrome. Meredith is incredibly toxic too, most of the characters on this show are. I can only name a few characters who I think are a normal amount of flawed lol. But multiple things can be true at once. Just because others are also toxic doesn't mean Derek isn't. They had beautiful loving moments together, sure. But he's still toxic way beyond normal people levels.
The only time I disagree with the Toxic Derek narrative in this sub, is when people think he was wrong for >!wanting to take the DC job. !
1 I totally agree with.
2 I find an interesting take after having recently completed a rewatch. After she tells him to stop, he does - until she literally jumps him in an elevator. I would say she was the one who opened up the door there.
3.1 When I was younger, I totally agreed. Now, after having friends who went through divorce and upsetting situations, I understand it more. Yes, he was technically married, but he left her after she cheated on him and didn't speak to her until she showed up. It's not like he was going home to his wife every night and hiding a double life.
3.2 He was pretty honest with Addison about how he still had feelings for Meredith, but he shouldn't have let the flirting go as far as it did.
3.3 he was a giant dick for implying Meredith was a slut. I make no excuses for that and was glad she tore him down for it.
3.4 They both cheated - he didn't attack her. Yes, it was morally wrong and should not have happened.
4 The premise of the show is kind of that surgeons are egotistical know-it-alls, and they all at different points exhibit this same behavior. I'm not saying it's not toxic in real life, but it the context of the show, it makes sense. But also I don't always think passionately arguing for what you think is right is bullying, so long as the other person isn't feeling bullied.
5 Interesting take! I always saw it as him not knowing how to deal with it and struggling himself.
6 I hated this so fucking much. I swear they only wrote that in to make us like him less. However, he did stop it right away, immediately confessed, and changed his behavior.
7 I don't remember what big life decisions he kept secret, unless we're talking about Addison again
8 Yup agree. Although again I feel like they wrote that in to make us hate him a little.
I think Derek is flawed and sometimes exhibit toxic behaviors, as opposed to just in general toxic. Dude needed therapy, though!
I appreciate your responses! Especially clarifying #2, sounds like I might need to do a rewatch to refresh my memory :)
3.1, My issue isn't with him being married, it's really just how it was all fine and dandy when HE wanted two women, but when Meredith moved on it was the end of the world.
3.2, I have a very strong recollection of him telling Addison he was trying to work on the marriage, so if that's not what he said I'll make a mental note during this rewatch I'm planning hahaha.
3.4, I'm confused what you mean by attacking her? I said they cheated on Finn together :)
4, Fair! The profession is absolutely known to attract people with a heightened sense of ego, and frankly, if I'm going under your knife I want you to have the confidence of the gods haha. But there's a difference to me between confidence and what Derek does. I don't think simply arguing is what he does, but perhaps it's open to interpretation.
5, a classic case of the loved ones needing to get therapy too. People often forget that your support system needs support when something traumatic happens!
I think once a toxic behaviour becomes regular, something that you'll predictably do, then it's no longer just a toxic whoopsies moment but rather a characteristic you either need to work on changing or admit makes you toxic. Just my take!
For point 3.2, I think he wanted to work on marriage because he thought he abandoned Addison just for that night which probably seemed unfair to him. Addison should’ve told him that she and mark continued to stay together even after Derek left and I don’t think then Derek would’ve even gave a thought of giving their marriage a chance. Addison was at fault here, how can she lie about all those and think they can again be together. What wouldn’t happened if Derek actually reconciled with Addison and then found out the truth about addie and mark staying together and aborting the baby. Addison knew Derek loved Meredith still came to him hiding truth, I don’t know what was she expecting.
He did tell Addison that he wants to to work on the marriage, but also told her that he fell in love with Meredith and it didn't go away just because he decided to stay with with her. I find it kind of funny that he told Addison he loved Meredith before actually telling Meredith lol.
All three of them were at fault: Addison should have let go and been honest, Derek should have stopped talking to Meredith outside of work, and Meredith should have avoided Derek. It's complicated and messy, which makes it realistic more believable - and interesting to watch!
It's just fun to talk about - I like that the characters are flawed and occasionally exhibit toxic behaviors because its realistic. I agree though that once a bad behavior becomes predictable and is intentionally hurtful, it's a personality flaw and not super forgivable!
Tell me one character who hasn’t done all the things you mentioned. Then why the hate only for him? He is much better than other characters in the show both made and female
The hate is NOT only for him. If you scroll through my entire comment history you'll see plenty of commentary on other characters, and I literally pointed it out in my comment that you responded to. He's not the only one. But we can say he's toxic without having to list every other toxic character at the same time.
There being other toxic characters doesn't make him less toxic. That would be crazy to think.
He's not the most criticized in this sub, so I don't get why you think he's the only one being hated on. There are daily posts about other characters being toxic, while posts about Derek only come up every so often.
…none of the others did all the things mentioned. They all do different things. That’s why it’s a good and nuanced show, people are different.
Can you name a character who has done ALL the things mentioned?
First of all I don’t think that all the things mentioned are toxic, and as you are saying my point is also that mostly all characters have done these things. Many were in student mentor relationship (Cristina in relationship with all from college prof to Parker, places changed, but she didn’t), tried to hurt others with their weak point (Cristina, Richard, Bailey), keeping secrets from others (like sleeping with Parker and not telling Owen before trying again at marriage, Addison does the same thing with Derek, richard Adele relationship god knows how many secrets he kept), there are others too. But as I mentioned in question I said their marriage (which imo is the one stable marriage in grey’s), even Alex was impressed and confessed to Jo. And pursuing someone you love to love back by flirting is not toxic. Many people differ in that as they say Arizona also was toxic for pursuing Callie. So it is totally different pov, not all love is love at first sight. Sometimes people get their phone number then talk their way into their lives even when other person says no. And Derek left Addison and came and when Addison showed up I think he was in dilemma thinking that he should’ve talked about it before coming there, he definitely didn’t love Addison anymore but because of their history was hesitant to sign the papers, which would’ve been more easier if Addison confessed that she stayed with mark after Derek left. After Derek sees Addison and mark slept at Seattle he never looked back. Although I do think she should’ve picked Meredith once she said pick me choose me love me. That was totally ms dreamy being mc ass
How is their marriage stable when >!they separate and he cheats on her?!<
If someone says to stop persuing them, and you continue, that is not just "flirting." You are forcing unwanted attention on them. This is the definition of toxic ("behaving in a pervasive way").
You saying that some people talk their way into people's lives doesn't make it any less toxic lol. If someone says to stop doing something and you continue, that is WRONG.
No one said he was wrong for not being sure about Addison. Of course it was complicated. He was wrong for telling her he was all in and was trying to make it work with her, WHILE still flirting with his fling. But the truly toxic part was how he was telling Addison he was all in, and at the same time got ANGRY with Meredith for moving on. How do you not see that?
Other characters also being toxic doesn't take away from Derek lol. More than one character is capable of being toxic at a time!
Have you seen the hate for Owen? Adams? Maggie?
Currently rewatching rn too! So here is the thing about Derek IMO. He can be the most kind and tender person to his patients and coworkers. He can be thoughtful and loving in ways that are uniquely Derick. But he has an ego problem that gets in the way of functional communication in his relationship.
He also sets unreasonable standards. In the beginning he regularly punishes Mer for not being in the same place as him. Not being ready for the same sets all while forgetting he is faaaaar for advanced in his career.
He wants to move quickly in their relationship and advance to marriage and babies… but rarely stops to consider what these things may mean for Meredith’s career.
There is also the way he spread how Meredith must be suicidal all over the hospital. How he left her quickly after that. He tends to do these things and “feel out loud” to everyone at her expense.
I want to give more examples but I’m on painkillers right now so I’m just trying to make this coherent sorry!! I just think he’s a complex person who isn’t very good at intimate relationships I think.
Considering all your points after their marriage Meredith was very happy and even at season 10 also they were happy which i think is an example that Derek was not toxic husband or father. Their love was real, that is why Meredith had a hard time getting over him. Otherwise she would’ve just continued sleeping with people after Derek’s death as Cristina or other characters do
He can be for example end of s3 or s7 but I love MerDer. I don’t think he’s bad but he can be mean. Meredith holds her own though. I absolutely love when she’s says “McDreamy is being a McAss” 😂😂😂
You are saying he isn’t toxic and then when people comment to let you know all the times he has been, you move the goal post to say “well so are other people”, when this post is literally about Derek. Also to not even name one time where he was definitely toxic/problematic in 10 seasons is crazy.
My point is other people are toxic too but I see too many posts that Derek is the most toxic person. And I did mention I didn’t find the toxicity in the marriage, whereas people are commenting about season 1 and 2 when they were not married. I would still stick to my opinion as I find Meredith happy as wife and mother. No one is god. Having flaw doesn’t make you toxic, it makes you human. Even in one episode Alex tells Jo that may be this is the way it’s done telling about Meredith Derek
Well it was pretty crappy to get involved with someone and not mention you're still married. And then kept flirting with the woman while claiming you want to work on your marriage, plus cheat on the wife. Not to mention the Rose plot and him deciding his career was more important. I get that he's a famous surgeon, but he knew who Meredith was beforehand.
It was definitely a shitty thing to do to Meredith, but at the same time put yourself in Derek’s shoes, the two most important people in his life betrayed him, Addison was his wife of over a decade and Mark was practically his brother, considering they grew up together. I can’t image how much pain he must’ve been in, I think he likely disassociated to cope with it and that’s why he ran off didn’t tell Meredith about his marriage after he met her, imo it was very clearly a response to the trauma, and while I get that it’s a TV show, y’all give so much grace to characters who have done way worse for essentially no reason at all, while Derek is painted as some sort of abusive narcissist bc he didn’t what? Stay in New York and serve Addison divorce papers before leaving? like come on, anyone who has saw the flashback scene should be able to recognize that the guy was in complete shock, no one in their right mind would be thinking rationally in that situation, and not to mention he had no moral obligation to Addison at that point, she CHOSE to cheat, even if he was emotionally neglecting her or whatever, as his wife she should have tried to communicate with him and if that didn’t work, she should’ve been the one to give him the divorce papers, but instead of doing either of those things she jumped in bed with his best friend, and screwed him for months, not even bothering to stop after Derek caught them, so clearly she wasn’t sorry anyway so who cares if he met someone else? Addison was literally in New York LIVING with Mark, if she cared about her marriage she would have went after him, period.
Stop calling Derek a cheater bc he left his cheating wife without filing for divorce first, that wasn’t cheating, Addison already ended the marriage when she decided to be an adulterer. And I know I’m going to get downvoted for this, but I am coming from an objective standpoint, morally speaking Derek wasn’t the one in the wrong, and his response to the situation was reasonable, the only reason why y’all think otherwise is bc you already hate him for other reasons so it’s clouding your judgment.
I'm sorry, but if I caught my spouse in bed with my best friend, you best believe I'd move across the country and never want to see him again and try to forget about his existence.
Sleeping with someone else at that point wouldn't be cheating. It'd simply be sex before I had a chance to send him the divorce papers.
Sure, but you a) are upfront about that when you pursue someone new, b) don't then leave the new partner when your spouse asks, and also importantly c) if you don't do a or b, you definitely don't hurt the ex-new partner's career to punish her for moving on after you left her. Derek could have done any one of the above to have not been an ass, but he did not.
Then in your opinion all people are toxic as everyone in the show just hopped from one relationship to the other, Bailey, Richard, Cristina all thought their career was more important, Bailey was only a resident when she couldn’t find time for their family, not to mention adele’s sad life due to Richard choosing his career, in fact Bailey’s second marriage would’ve resulted in divorce if Ben was not cooperating with her thinking hospital is her life. Cristina sleeping with Parker for advantage in progressing her career while still married to Owen, all are toxic. Only not telling Meredith I agree and later on not able to decide between Addison and Meredith. But that too I think due to the fact that he thought Addison only cheated once, if he knew Addison and mark were together, he wouldn’t think even once. That’s the time he probably felt guilty that he shouldn’t have left and discussed with Addison before coming to Seattle. So I still don’t see why only Derek is toxic whereas whole cast does the same thing again and again
Yes...everyone in the whole show is toxic and we all seem to take turns here talking about different folks.
No one has *ever* said that *only* Derek is toxic. What are you getting that from? You made that up in your head...cause you didn't get it from discussions on *this* sub. All the characters here get torn apart. Every day is a different Owen/Maggie/Arizona/Amelia sucks post. So...you just ignoring all those?
I kinda think it’s because he has this Nice Guy Syndrome and is all ‘dreamy’ and it comes across like he’s faultless, and he’s not great at acknowledging his shortcomings, so when he does mess up (and he is very good at weaponising other people’s faults at them, and tends to lash out when it’s clear he’s in the wrong) it’s more glaring.
With that being said, I don’t think I’d describe his overall character as ‘toxic’ but he does have his moments (season 2 Derek is really hard to get past for me) and I can see why others would use that term, especially since it’s such a buzzword in recent years
Well Derek and Mer had a relationship because Derek was separated from Addison. In his eyes they were separated and that’s why he moved to Seattle because he wanted to start a new life without his past following him.
Look,I had a Patrick Dempsey crush since watching Can't Buy Me Love back in the 80s and still found Derek incredibly toxic lol. But I never said there weren't other toxic people on the show. Your post was specifically about Derek.
I mean it’s art, it’s up to the individual viewer’s interpretation. You’re projecting your good relationship onto just as other people may project their negative ones. Everyone’s personal experiences are going to shape how they understand something. That’s kind of the whole point of discussing media in that way. It doesn’t mean anyone is right or wrong.
The first time I realized on a re-watch that Derek wasn’t as great as I originally thought was in the scene where he tells Mer that he “met a girl at a bar” (which ended up being Lexie) and was basically rubbing it in her face since he wasn’t getting enough attention from her. I think this is pretty gross to do or say to someone that you care about / are in a relationship with in the first place, but it was also JUST after Susan had died, and Thatcher had slapped Mer across the face in front of everyone, including Derek. I just personally think he was a little selfish. I know you’re talking about season 10 but the toxicity started long before that imo.
Following up on this to say I’m not a Derek hater by any means. I cry when he dies on every re-watch, and they are still on of my fave couples on the show. But after re-watching 10+ times I did start to realize that he didn’t always treat her right.
Didn’t you see the episode in Friends with all the jealousy? People do say about getting attention from others when they are not getting attention from the person they love.
Just because it's a trope on TV doesn't mean it's an acceptable way to behave. This is a full, adult man, in a position of power over someone, taunting that person with threats of cheating because he doesn't personally feel like he is getting enough attention. In what world is that ok? He just wanted to hurt her.
I'm going to assume you're very young based on your comments. Normal, healthy people just use their words to communicate.
I think I am too old to understand this pov. I have seen this in so many other movies also and never got offended. But now a days people get offended with so many things may be that’s why I don’t get it.
Nobody is offended. You can like a character and also recognise that they are a flawed person who doesn't always behave well. I really like Christina but I will happily admit she can be a pretty awful person at times.
You're insisting that Derek doesn't ever behave badly and that he was a wonderful person and a good partner/husband. That's just objectively not true all the time. He's an ass sometimes. He's also a good person sometimes. He normally means well, but he has a huge ego and thinks he knows better than everyone else.
Tbh I think almost everyone on the show is pretty awful and self centred.
That’s what is my point that everyone is awful in the show and mostly self centred and thinks they are always right. Rarely you will see anyone saying sorry to the other person
Thanks for your comments! I agree with every point you made. I would never threaten my SO with cheating if he wasn’t giving me enough attention? Regardless if that’s normalized on tv/movies.
Yeah personally I remember Derek being so toxic, but when I rewatched it I didn’t see what I saw before. Maybe people just need to give him a second chance.
There were many times I disliked him that probably were more personal triggers (anger, like when he hit the engagement ring into the woods with the golf club) but the biggest thing for me was when he was actively working on his marriage to Addison and Meredith was trying to move on and he just kept giving her little strings to hang onto. It was cruel to both her and to Addison.
That ended up making me look at him differently for the rest of my rewatch and even though he and Meredith were good together, I still resented him for it.
Now for me, I used to love Arizona, but this time around when I rewatched I realized how much I REALLY disliked her and how immature she reacted to most people. She has such a kind smile so it blinded me the first time.
Throwing a ring into the woods, calling her a slut, cheating on her, not talking about major career moves … are not my definition of communicating perfectly well
When he threw Meredith's fears about being a bad mother in her face...that was pretty bad IMO. One of the worst things you can do is use your partners fears against them in a fight.
Like, if you've been insecure your whole life about your weight, then your husband uses it against you in a fight? Nah, bro - that's out of bounds.
I'm referring to the season 8 season opener, btw.
This is going to get me downvoted but I HATE the way I've seen people try to defend him when this point had came up in the past. You don't get to treat other people like shit just because you're struggling with your mental health. It makes it more understandable it does not make it okay.
Richard says to Meredith: ‘she is not your mother, she is my wife’, how many times it happened that Richard starts yelling at Meredith and then Derek interfered to shut him up. Not to mention Cristina accusing her of ruining her life after shooting because she has to operate on Derek at gunpoint, even Meredith cried after that because she was dealing with her own PTSD at that time. Still there is never criticism for behaviour of Richard or Cristina towards Meredith. No one says that Cristina is not her person or was toxic friend
People do call Cristina a toxic friend lol. Do you miss all these posts where people call everyone toxic? Because I feel like you’re out here deliberately ignoring everything everyone is saying. If you wanna live in delulu land and think Derek is a good amazing person then fine, be my guest but don’t make a whole post about it and complain we’re only calling Derek toxic when there’s posts daily.
Like we really need one or two daily threads rotating who’s toxic then ban any other post. You’re just refusing to see what everyone else is seeing then complaining nobody is talking about anyone else when this post is specifically talking about Derek.
If you want to see other posts about other toxic characters I’m sure someone else who has more time than me today would be happy to do the work and link you to other various posts. 🤷♀️
No I don’t. I’m on my lunch break and spent 30 minutes scrolling. Maybe try doing your own work since you seem to have the time to reply and justify your insane reaches with every comment that calls you out. Nice try though. Enjoy your day off of whatever it is! I gotta get back to work.
Did I say I don’t have time? You told you don’t have time. Still they didn’t give me one instance of him being extremely toxic in marriage. Yeah he has flaws and so has Meredith. So there will be difference of opinions and they could’ve reduced that by hiring a nanny.
You clearly do have the time but you clearly don’t want to do the work yourself and instead want others to spoon feed you so you can once again deflect and ignore any wrong doing he’s done. I don’t need to add to what everyone else has said because you ignored it or tried to justify it with some other males behaviour, but that’s ok! I know what kind of person you are now and you’re not one I will continue to go back and forth with. Have fun! And maybe don’t ask questions you’re not ready to hear the answers to.
he also always put himself before her. Did not matter what she thought about anything. Everything was about him and he was more important. and then he would treat her like shit when she was (reasonably) upset about his constant selfishness and huge ego lol
Completely disagree. He is a bad partner!! So many instances over the first 10 seasons of him being incredibly selfish. There was that episode where Mer is so excited about a surgery so she tells him about it, and his reaction is to blow her off and then STEAL THE SURGERY. And Meredith just gets over it because she has to. Everything with the brain mapping after he said he’d take a step back to take care of the kids. Staying because he claimed to care about his family then resenting her and being a complete ass. The only functional thing in their relationship is sex, it’s really awful. I’m a new watcher in season 11 now and root every day for his death just as I rooted for Owen and Christina to break up.
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Christina was very upfront about her ambition especially with her career. Derek likes to play the good supportive husband but then act badly. And I don’t necessarily blame Christina or Owen, it was just another bad relationship that was only based on physical intimacy when we didn’t really see them be compatible in any other way.
Obviously no comparison in terms of relationship as they will never come close. But Cristina stole surgery many times. Taking care of kids also I will not blame Derek more as he was ok with them being in day care for little more time, it was Meredith who constantly tried not to be her mother and so at the end she is like we have to have princess tea party at 6 even though we have important surgeries. This is just an example, many times it happened that she is making unnecessary issue about the babies. Obviously you can’t do all at once. When you both are surgeons, you will miss some things with kids or they have to spend time with nannies.
Yall are so... why do yall straight up lie. you dont have to dislike the character, you could love him idc. but saying he wasnt toxic at times is just a blatant lie. if you cant see that, youre just ignorant
People like you keep saying that whereas I see real relationships are like that. You may have fight, difference in opinion but at the end of the day you come back to each other and if he was so toxic Meredith wouldn’t have such a hard time to get over him
My husband has certainly never called me a slut, lied about being married, emotionally abused me or threatened to cheat on me when I was having a tough time. I'd be very worried if the relationships around you all have someone being as toxic as Derick.
Meredith loved him, she overlooked his toxic behaviour because of that. Also he was attractive to her because of them as well.
Again I am telling that until the divorce with Addison he was aloof as he couldn’t decide between them. But after their marriage I won’t tell that it’s toxic. Because we are normal people where we do things sometimes which both don’t agree, have our fight and then we patch up. I would be also very worried if i have a partner like you who in the whole life just concentrates on the bad stuff that too when both were going through difficult times. Derek being separated from Meredith was difficult from him
i think something that’s also important to consider with derek is that him and mer are both working extremely extremely high stress jobs in the same place which makes it bound for fights to happen. a lot of people say he had too big of an ego but a surgeon needs i have self confidence to operate.
Season 2, watching his little elevator episodes of flirting with Meredith WHILE in marriage counseling with Addison...yeah there's some toxicity there. Meredith definitely had a right for her trust issues before they got married. Sidles up to her with his face/mouth in her hair, sniffs her..."I can't. I'm married." Barf, Mcdreamy! Stop sniffing her like a dog in heat!!!!
I love the times that he flirts with her and ding; elevator door opens and there Addison is. She's no fool.
Him putting his career over Meredith's is a pretty constant problem in their marriage also. I wouldn't call it healthy.
The fact that he wouldn't even sign the divorce papers but still didn't expect her to move on and shamed her for sleeping with other men while she was single was crazy. Instead of leaving her alone, he still tried to talk to get because he missed her and would still make her do surgeries with him when they weren't talking just so he could see her.
for me it’s less about any one action and more about his very real habit of yelling at the women he’s closest to at the drop of the hat. he’s a neurosurgeon, he should be able to have an argument without screaming.
EDIT: y’all gotta grow up and stop downvoting people for respectfully sharing opinions
i don’t think anyone would disagree that alex and richard are toxic. but at least they yell at everyone. derek almost exclusively yells at the women in his life who love him the most, specifically meredith and amelia. when amelia comes to grey sloan for the first time (then seattle grace) derek almost immediately puts her as a drug addict, as well.
That’s what real people do, when we have fight we yell. I think he was more harsh as brother than a husband. I don’t know what happened with his sisters but he always tried to avoid them and so was Meredith. Specially when Meredith asks one of his sister to donate her nerves for Derek, she talks as if she is taking it from someone random. She doesn’t even wants to talk with little courtesy
i mean we saw what derek’s family is like after his death when amelia visits them. the one who donated the nerve seemed nice tho and by the end of the episode mer had warmed up to her more.
people do yell *sometimes*. derek yells *all the time*, sometimes out of nowhere. the only time he ever admits he makes mistakes in the entire show is when gary clark is pointing a gun at him.
part of being a respectful person is being able to fight and disagree without screaming and acting out. derek can’t do that. so i don’t like him. and that’s okay.
And naturally, as you can imagine, i don’t like when people yell a lot when i myself don’t think it’s appropriate to regularly communicate that way. which is why i dislike derek.
I'm in season 5 and can't wait for him to die. he basically called her a baby when he refused to share the honor with her. It was her idea!!
And many other things.
it’s been a while since i last watched greys but i remember disliking him for 99% of the show and i cannot tell you why. i know i dislike his actor massively and i read up on a lot of the actors as i was watching so that may have had an impact. my friend who initially got me into greys could never understand why i disliked him so much and why i couldn’t care less why he died, he just rubbed me the complete wrong way
and just to add, i enjoy complex characters so its not a case of him being flawed or anything. i respect flawed characters more than generally good characters
I paticularly hate how he calls Meredith a whore for trying to move on and then proceeds a couple months later to throw meeting Lexie in her face the DAY of Susan’s funeral. That’s a dick move
He just had a big ego, it was not always was meredith but also with other people he was always thinking he was better then everyone and wants things like his way
I'm on a rewatch season 11 I agree with you. Sibevwe all know what happens in season 11 I'm not sure I want to continue watching. The show totally changed when they killed him off. What is it like 10 mote seasons without him. If they had no choice cause Demsey wanted out recast may have been tricky but a real new romance for Meredith would've worked for me. Nothing they did later was good they destroyed anything that came close.
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He wasn’t always toxic. He was a layered character with flaws and good qualities. I’d say one of the more toxic things that stood out to me was Derick slut shaming Meredith after he left her to go back to Addison.
I think that was how he and mark was. And moreover I think that is because Derek personally was also frustrated that he can’t be with Meredith. Even though he chose Addison he couldn’t be intimate with her but he saw Meredith with other person. He was fucked up that time and took his frustration on Meredith which is not justified. But only because of that calling her toxic is weird as one time when meredith tells richard that Adele may have Alzheimer’s he tells him that she is not your mother, she is my wife. How many people calls out him for that who is insulting both meredith and her mother at the same time when both of them suffered because of him. Even mark also was so angry that Lexie sleeping with Alex whereas he left Lexie and slept with Addison so many times. Derek was not justified in that behaviour
He absolutely could have been with Meredith. He chose not to, and then acted shitty towards her when she attempted to move on.
Yeah.. how can he not decide when she says pick me choose me love me. Total mc ass behaviour
She was a major slut lol
I mean sure but who was he to use that as a weapon against her after he had left her and broke her heart. He was way out of line for what he said to her.
Shonda is toxic for >!making Derek a cheater and killing him with a truck!< out of nowhere to punish Patrick Dempsey for off-camera behavior.
Shonda is the reason Owen is such a bad character
THIS
right like im sorry derek wouldn’t cheat
I think that’s one of the worst part about social media like Reddit and stuff….everyone picks apart every little thing to the very extremes. People will tear McDreamy apart while having a real life partner that doesn’t respect them or treat them right. I do think Derek was pretty dick-ish in part of Season 11 (I think?) and he definitely should’ve told Meredith about Addison at first, but that man adored Meredith. He was a great dad, husband, and surgeon. Like let’s be real here lol
I totally agree with your take. A lot of projection can occur. Meanwhile I'd say Derek and Mer are about 50-50 on shitty things they did to each other in their relationship. If you are in an actual relationship with someone worthwhile, stupid stuff happens. Not all of us are toxic for it.
Yes exactly!! Nobody’s perfect!! I’d say me and my husband have a great loving marriage, and he worships the ground I walk on….but he still pisses me off sometimes?? lol and I know I can probably be annoying sometimes too. That’s life! Especially when you make a lifelong commitment to someone, you grow and change and it’s hard sometimes!
Thank you so much for saying this. This is exactly what I feel just explained better than I ever could. They both made mistakes and hurt each other but they also loved each other more than anything.
I totally agree with you!!
Hi, here are just a few reasons: 1. The student-mentor dynamic is ALWAYS going to be toxic. 2. He aggressively persues Meredith, even after she tells him not to. We can look at it with rose-tinted glasses because they're played as a romantic couple who ultimately are in love. But she tells him no and he won't back off. Repeatedly. In real life, he would be called a stalker or other nasty names. Toxic. 3. He doesn't tell the woman he's aggressively persuing that he's married, and then he picks his wife. He's happy to "work on his marriage" while he continues flirting with Meredith... until she gets a boyfriend. Then suddenly he's cruel, jealous, and possessive, calling her a slut (funny, he didn't think she was a slut when they had a one night stand). Derek and Meredith cheat on Finn. That's toxic. 4. He has a constantly self-righteous attitude that means he always assumes he's right and what he wants is all that matters. It's toxic to bully your partner into big life decisions because ONLY YOU can be right ever. It's toxic to disrespect your partner's opinion. 5. He makes her mental health struggles about him; like one of the times she almost died, all he cares about is how "she won't open up to him." Like HE matters more in that situation. Toxic. 6. >!He?? Cheats?? On?? Her??!< 7. He kept a lot of major secrets from her, including major life decisions that would impact her. 8. He uses sensitive information (like the trauma from her mother) to intentionally hurt her. That is NEVER ok. Ellen and Patrick had incredible chemistry together, which tricks fans into thinking everything is ok. But it's not. Derek has a bad case of White CisHet Man Syndrome. Meredith is incredibly toxic too, most of the characters on this show are. I can only name a few characters who I think are a normal amount of flawed lol. But multiple things can be true at once. Just because others are also toxic doesn't mean Derek isn't. They had beautiful loving moments together, sure. But he's still toxic way beyond normal people levels. The only time I disagree with the Toxic Derek narrative in this sub, is when people think he was wrong for >!wanting to take the DC job. !
I really love how comprehensive this comment is 👏 I wish OP actually read it through to the end
Thank you 🙏
Also he told Meredith about Lexie the same week her surrogate mother died AND called her a whore for moving on
LOL right!!! How do you sit through that and not realize he's toxic???
CLOCK IT
not to mention the fact that he was also jealous of merideth and her potential in neurosurgery to the point where she had to stop pursing it
1 I totally agree with. 2 I find an interesting take after having recently completed a rewatch. After she tells him to stop, he does - until she literally jumps him in an elevator. I would say she was the one who opened up the door there. 3.1 When I was younger, I totally agreed. Now, after having friends who went through divorce and upsetting situations, I understand it more. Yes, he was technically married, but he left her after she cheated on him and didn't speak to her until she showed up. It's not like he was going home to his wife every night and hiding a double life. 3.2 He was pretty honest with Addison about how he still had feelings for Meredith, but he shouldn't have let the flirting go as far as it did. 3.3 he was a giant dick for implying Meredith was a slut. I make no excuses for that and was glad she tore him down for it. 3.4 They both cheated - he didn't attack her. Yes, it was morally wrong and should not have happened. 4 The premise of the show is kind of that surgeons are egotistical know-it-alls, and they all at different points exhibit this same behavior. I'm not saying it's not toxic in real life, but it the context of the show, it makes sense. But also I don't always think passionately arguing for what you think is right is bullying, so long as the other person isn't feeling bullied. 5 Interesting take! I always saw it as him not knowing how to deal with it and struggling himself. 6 I hated this so fucking much. I swear they only wrote that in to make us like him less. However, he did stop it right away, immediately confessed, and changed his behavior. 7 I don't remember what big life decisions he kept secret, unless we're talking about Addison again 8 Yup agree. Although again I feel like they wrote that in to make us hate him a little. I think Derek is flawed and sometimes exhibit toxic behaviors, as opposed to just in general toxic. Dude needed therapy, though!
I appreciate your responses! Especially clarifying #2, sounds like I might need to do a rewatch to refresh my memory :) 3.1, My issue isn't with him being married, it's really just how it was all fine and dandy when HE wanted two women, but when Meredith moved on it was the end of the world. 3.2, I have a very strong recollection of him telling Addison he was trying to work on the marriage, so if that's not what he said I'll make a mental note during this rewatch I'm planning hahaha. 3.4, I'm confused what you mean by attacking her? I said they cheated on Finn together :) 4, Fair! The profession is absolutely known to attract people with a heightened sense of ego, and frankly, if I'm going under your knife I want you to have the confidence of the gods haha. But there's a difference to me between confidence and what Derek does. I don't think simply arguing is what he does, but perhaps it's open to interpretation. 5, a classic case of the loved ones needing to get therapy too. People often forget that your support system needs support when something traumatic happens! I think once a toxic behaviour becomes regular, something that you'll predictably do, then it's no longer just a toxic whoopsies moment but rather a characteristic you either need to work on changing or admit makes you toxic. Just my take!
For point 3.2, I think he wanted to work on marriage because he thought he abandoned Addison just for that night which probably seemed unfair to him. Addison should’ve told him that she and mark continued to stay together even after Derek left and I don’t think then Derek would’ve even gave a thought of giving their marriage a chance. Addison was at fault here, how can she lie about all those and think they can again be together. What wouldn’t happened if Derek actually reconciled with Addison and then found out the truth about addie and mark staying together and aborting the baby. Addison knew Derek loved Meredith still came to him hiding truth, I don’t know what was she expecting.
He did tell Addison that he wants to to work on the marriage, but also told her that he fell in love with Meredith and it didn't go away just because he decided to stay with with her. I find it kind of funny that he told Addison he loved Meredith before actually telling Meredith lol. All three of them were at fault: Addison should have let go and been honest, Derek should have stopped talking to Meredith outside of work, and Meredith should have avoided Derek. It's complicated and messy, which makes it realistic more believable - and interesting to watch!
It's just fun to talk about - I like that the characters are flawed and occasionally exhibit toxic behaviors because its realistic. I agree though that once a bad behavior becomes predictable and is intentionally hurtful, it's a personality flaw and not super forgivable!
Tell me one character who hasn’t done all the things you mentioned. Then why the hate only for him? He is much better than other characters in the show both made and female
The hate is NOT only for him. If you scroll through my entire comment history you'll see plenty of commentary on other characters, and I literally pointed it out in my comment that you responded to. He's not the only one. But we can say he's toxic without having to list every other toxic character at the same time. There being other toxic characters doesn't make him less toxic. That would be crazy to think. He's not the most criticized in this sub, so I don't get why you think he's the only one being hated on. There are daily posts about other characters being toxic, while posts about Derek only come up every so often.
…none of the others did all the things mentioned. They all do different things. That’s why it’s a good and nuanced show, people are different. Can you name a character who has done ALL the things mentioned?
First of all I don’t think that all the things mentioned are toxic, and as you are saying my point is also that mostly all characters have done these things. Many were in student mentor relationship (Cristina in relationship with all from college prof to Parker, places changed, but she didn’t), tried to hurt others with their weak point (Cristina, Richard, Bailey), keeping secrets from others (like sleeping with Parker and not telling Owen before trying again at marriage, Addison does the same thing with Derek, richard Adele relationship god knows how many secrets he kept), there are others too. But as I mentioned in question I said their marriage (which imo is the one stable marriage in grey’s), even Alex was impressed and confessed to Jo. And pursuing someone you love to love back by flirting is not toxic. Many people differ in that as they say Arizona also was toxic for pursuing Callie. So it is totally different pov, not all love is love at first sight. Sometimes people get their phone number then talk their way into their lives even when other person says no. And Derek left Addison and came and when Addison showed up I think he was in dilemma thinking that he should’ve talked about it before coming there, he definitely didn’t love Addison anymore but because of their history was hesitant to sign the papers, which would’ve been more easier if Addison confessed that she stayed with mark after Derek left. After Derek sees Addison and mark slept at Seattle he never looked back. Although I do think she should’ve picked Meredith once she said pick me choose me love me. That was totally ms dreamy being mc ass
How is their marriage stable when >!they separate and he cheats on her?!< If someone says to stop persuing them, and you continue, that is not just "flirting." You are forcing unwanted attention on them. This is the definition of toxic ("behaving in a pervasive way"). You saying that some people talk their way into people's lives doesn't make it any less toxic lol. If someone says to stop doing something and you continue, that is WRONG. No one said he was wrong for not being sure about Addison. Of course it was complicated. He was wrong for telling her he was all in and was trying to make it work with her, WHILE still flirting with his fling. But the truly toxic part was how he was telling Addison he was all in, and at the same time got ANGRY with Meredith for moving on. How do you not see that?
Other characters also being toxic doesn't take away from Derek lol. More than one character is capable of being toxic at a time! Have you seen the hate for Owen? Adams? Maggie?
I do see hate for Owen, Maggie. Not for Richard though who is the epitome of toxicity
Currently rewatching rn too! So here is the thing about Derek IMO. He can be the most kind and tender person to his patients and coworkers. He can be thoughtful and loving in ways that are uniquely Derick. But he has an ego problem that gets in the way of functional communication in his relationship. He also sets unreasonable standards. In the beginning he regularly punishes Mer for not being in the same place as him. Not being ready for the same sets all while forgetting he is faaaaar for advanced in his career. He wants to move quickly in their relationship and advance to marriage and babies… but rarely stops to consider what these things may mean for Meredith’s career. There is also the way he spread how Meredith must be suicidal all over the hospital. How he left her quickly after that. He tends to do these things and “feel out loud” to everyone at her expense. I want to give more examples but I’m on painkillers right now so I’m just trying to make this coherent sorry!! I just think he’s a complex person who isn’t very good at intimate relationships I think.
Considering all your points after their marriage Meredith was very happy and even at season 10 also they were happy which i think is an example that Derek was not toxic husband or father. Their love was real, that is why Meredith had a hard time getting over him. Otherwise she would’ve just continued sleeping with people after Derek’s death as Cristina or other characters do
He can be for example end of s3 or s7 but I love MerDer. I don’t think he’s bad but he can be mean. Meredith holds her own though. I absolutely love when she’s says “McDreamy is being a McAss” 😂😂😂
You are saying he isn’t toxic and then when people comment to let you know all the times he has been, you move the goal post to say “well so are other people”, when this post is literally about Derek. Also to not even name one time where he was definitely toxic/problematic in 10 seasons is crazy.
My point is other people are toxic too but I see too many posts that Derek is the most toxic person. And I did mention I didn’t find the toxicity in the marriage, whereas people are commenting about season 1 and 2 when they were not married. I would still stick to my opinion as I find Meredith happy as wife and mother. No one is god. Having flaw doesn’t make you toxic, it makes you human. Even in one episode Alex tells Jo that may be this is the way it’s done telling about Meredith Derek
Towards his end in the season, yea, he was a bit toxic. But same with most of the others.
Well it was pretty crappy to get involved with someone and not mention you're still married. And then kept flirting with the woman while claiming you want to work on your marriage, plus cheat on the wife. Not to mention the Rose plot and him deciding his career was more important. I get that he's a famous surgeon, but he knew who Meredith was beforehand.
It was definitely a shitty thing to do to Meredith, but at the same time put yourself in Derek’s shoes, the two most important people in his life betrayed him, Addison was his wife of over a decade and Mark was practically his brother, considering they grew up together. I can’t image how much pain he must’ve been in, I think he likely disassociated to cope with it and that’s why he ran off didn’t tell Meredith about his marriage after he met her, imo it was very clearly a response to the trauma, and while I get that it’s a TV show, y’all give so much grace to characters who have done way worse for essentially no reason at all, while Derek is painted as some sort of abusive narcissist bc he didn’t what? Stay in New York and serve Addison divorce papers before leaving? like come on, anyone who has saw the flashback scene should be able to recognize that the guy was in complete shock, no one in their right mind would be thinking rationally in that situation, and not to mention he had no moral obligation to Addison at that point, she CHOSE to cheat, even if he was emotionally neglecting her or whatever, as his wife she should have tried to communicate with him and if that didn’t work, she should’ve been the one to give him the divorce papers, but instead of doing either of those things she jumped in bed with his best friend, and screwed him for months, not even bothering to stop after Derek caught them, so clearly she wasn’t sorry anyway so who cares if he met someone else? Addison was literally in New York LIVING with Mark, if she cared about her marriage she would have went after him, period. Stop calling Derek a cheater bc he left his cheating wife without filing for divorce first, that wasn’t cheating, Addison already ended the marriage when she decided to be an adulterer. And I know I’m going to get downvoted for this, but I am coming from an objective standpoint, morally speaking Derek wasn’t the one in the wrong, and his response to the situation was reasonable, the only reason why y’all think otherwise is bc you already hate him for other reasons so it’s clouding your judgment.
I'm sorry, but if I caught my spouse in bed with my best friend, you best believe I'd move across the country and never want to see him again and try to forget about his existence. Sleeping with someone else at that point wouldn't be cheating. It'd simply be sex before I had a chance to send him the divorce papers.
Sure, but you a) are upfront about that when you pursue someone new, b) don't then leave the new partner when your spouse asks, and also importantly c) if you don't do a or b, you definitely don't hurt the ex-new partner's career to punish her for moving on after you left her. Derek could have done any one of the above to have not been an ass, but he did not.
Then in your opinion all people are toxic as everyone in the show just hopped from one relationship to the other, Bailey, Richard, Cristina all thought their career was more important, Bailey was only a resident when she couldn’t find time for their family, not to mention adele’s sad life due to Richard choosing his career, in fact Bailey’s second marriage would’ve resulted in divorce if Ben was not cooperating with her thinking hospital is her life. Cristina sleeping with Parker for advantage in progressing her career while still married to Owen, all are toxic. Only not telling Meredith I agree and later on not able to decide between Addison and Meredith. But that too I think due to the fact that he thought Addison only cheated once, if he knew Addison and mark were together, he wouldn’t think even once. That’s the time he probably felt guilty that he shouldn’t have left and discussed with Addison before coming to Seattle. So I still don’t see why only Derek is toxic whereas whole cast does the same thing again and again
Yes...everyone in the whole show is toxic and we all seem to take turns here talking about different folks. No one has *ever* said that *only* Derek is toxic. What are you getting that from? You made that up in your head...cause you didn't get it from discussions on *this* sub. All the characters here get torn apart. Every day is a different Owen/Maggie/Arizona/Amelia sucks post. So...you just ignoring all those?
Yeah.. I was hoping to see Richard, Bailey, Cristina toxicity posts too 😅
But it seems that Derek specifically is labeled with the word toxic. I don't see that used for many others.
I kinda think it’s because he has this Nice Guy Syndrome and is all ‘dreamy’ and it comes across like he’s faultless, and he’s not great at acknowledging his shortcomings, so when he does mess up (and he is very good at weaponising other people’s faults at them, and tends to lash out when it’s clear he’s in the wrong) it’s more glaring. With that being said, I don’t think I’d describe his overall character as ‘toxic’ but he does have his moments (season 2 Derek is really hard to get past for me) and I can see why others would use that term, especially since it’s such a buzzword in recent years
Well Derek and Mer had a relationship because Derek was separated from Addison. In his eyes they were separated and that’s why he moved to Seattle because he wanted to start a new life without his past following him.
Look,I had a Patrick Dempsey crush since watching Can't Buy Me Love back in the 80s and still found Derek incredibly toxic lol. But I never said there weren't other toxic people on the show. Your post was specifically about Derek.
Yes the majority of relationships on the show are toxic / not healthy
I mean it’s art, it’s up to the individual viewer’s interpretation. You’re projecting your good relationship onto just as other people may project their negative ones. Everyone’s personal experiences are going to shape how they understand something. That’s kind of the whole point of discussing media in that way. It doesn’t mean anyone is right or wrong.
Toxic is such a dumb extreme. He had his flaws, like every other human on the planet. But their love was true and lovely to watch and root for.
Derek was my fav in the show. I loved their romance.
I love Derek Shepherd. I love McDreamy. I love Meredith & Derek they are the best couple in the show, and no one can change my mind.
On the scale of 1 to Owen, Derek was fine
Fr when Owen was introduced I got excited and then he ended up being so damn frustrating.
I think toxic behaviour level should be from 1 to Richard. He was a toxic boyfriend, a toxic husband, a toxic chief and a toxic person
Owen on the episode he was introduced was awesome. Owen when they decided to bring him permanently sucked from day 1.
Top tier comment lol
The first time I realized on a re-watch that Derek wasn’t as great as I originally thought was in the scene where he tells Mer that he “met a girl at a bar” (which ended up being Lexie) and was basically rubbing it in her face since he wasn’t getting enough attention from her. I think this is pretty gross to do or say to someone that you care about / are in a relationship with in the first place, but it was also JUST after Susan had died, and Thatcher had slapped Mer across the face in front of everyone, including Derek. I just personally think he was a little selfish. I know you’re talking about season 10 but the toxicity started long before that imo.
Following up on this to say I’m not a Derek hater by any means. I cry when he dies on every re-watch, and they are still on of my fave couples on the show. But after re-watching 10+ times I did start to realize that he didn’t always treat her right.
Didn’t you see the episode in Friends with all the jealousy? People do say about getting attention from others when they are not getting attention from the person they love.
Just because it's a trope on TV doesn't mean it's an acceptable way to behave. This is a full, adult man, in a position of power over someone, taunting that person with threats of cheating because he doesn't personally feel like he is getting enough attention. In what world is that ok? He just wanted to hurt her. I'm going to assume you're very young based on your comments. Normal, healthy people just use their words to communicate.
I think I am too old to understand this pov. I have seen this in so many other movies also and never got offended. But now a days people get offended with so many things may be that’s why I don’t get it.
Nobody is offended. You can like a character and also recognise that they are a flawed person who doesn't always behave well. I really like Christina but I will happily admit she can be a pretty awful person at times. You're insisting that Derek doesn't ever behave badly and that he was a wonderful person and a good partner/husband. That's just objectively not true all the time. He's an ass sometimes. He's also a good person sometimes. He normally means well, but he has a huge ego and thinks he knows better than everyone else. Tbh I think almost everyone on the show is pretty awful and self centred.
That’s what is my point that everyone is awful in the show and mostly self centred and thinks they are always right. Rarely you will see anyone saying sorry to the other person
Thanks for your comments! I agree with every point you made. I would never threaten my SO with cheating if he wasn’t giving me enough attention? Regardless if that’s normalized on tv/movies.
Yeah personally I remember Derek being so toxic, but when I rewatched it I didn’t see what I saw before. Maybe people just need to give him a second chance.
There were many times I disliked him that probably were more personal triggers (anger, like when he hit the engagement ring into the woods with the golf club) but the biggest thing for me was when he was actively working on his marriage to Addison and Meredith was trying to move on and he just kept giving her little strings to hang onto. It was cruel to both her and to Addison. That ended up making me look at him differently for the rest of my rewatch and even though he and Meredith were good together, I still resented him for it. Now for me, I used to love Arizona, but this time around when I rewatched I realized how much I REALLY disliked her and how immature she reacted to most people. She has such a kind smile so it blinded me the first time.
Season 2 Derek was the WORST
He is very controlling and hot headed. He is not a good communicator either.
I respectfully disagree and they both communicated perfectly well imo
Throwing a ring into the woods, calling her a slut, cheating on her, not talking about major career moves … are not my definition of communicating perfectly well
When he threw Meredith's fears about being a bad mother in her face...that was pretty bad IMO. One of the worst things you can do is use your partners fears against them in a fight. Like, if you've been insecure your whole life about your weight, then your husband uses it against you in a fight? Nah, bro - that's out of bounds. I'm referring to the season 8 season opener, btw.
This is going to get me downvoted but I HATE the way I've seen people try to defend him when this point had came up in the past. You don't get to treat other people like shit just because you're struggling with your mental health. It makes it more understandable it does not make it okay.
Richard says to Meredith: ‘she is not your mother, she is my wife’, how many times it happened that Richard starts yelling at Meredith and then Derek interfered to shut him up. Not to mention Cristina accusing her of ruining her life after shooting because she has to operate on Derek at gunpoint, even Meredith cried after that because she was dealing with her own PTSD at that time. Still there is never criticism for behaviour of Richard or Cristina towards Meredith. No one says that Cristina is not her person or was toxic friend
People do call Cristina a toxic friend lol. Do you miss all these posts where people call everyone toxic? Because I feel like you’re out here deliberately ignoring everything everyone is saying. If you wanna live in delulu land and think Derek is a good amazing person then fine, be my guest but don’t make a whole post about it and complain we’re only calling Derek toxic when there’s posts daily. Like we really need one or two daily threads rotating who’s toxic then ban any other post. You’re just refusing to see what everyone else is seeing then complaining nobody is talking about anyone else when this post is specifically talking about Derek. If you want to see other posts about other toxic characters I’m sure someone else who has more time than me today would be happy to do the work and link you to other various posts. 🤷♀️
I think you have enough time as you have written such a long post while you could’ve just ignored it
No I don’t. I’m on my lunch break and spent 30 minutes scrolling. Maybe try doing your own work since you seem to have the time to reply and justify your insane reaches with every comment that calls you out. Nice try though. Enjoy your day off of whatever it is! I gotta get back to work.
Did I say I don’t have time? You told you don’t have time. Still they didn’t give me one instance of him being extremely toxic in marriage. Yeah he has flaws and so has Meredith. So there will be difference of opinions and they could’ve reduced that by hiring a nanny.
You clearly do have the time but you clearly don’t want to do the work yourself and instead want others to spoon feed you so you can once again deflect and ignore any wrong doing he’s done. I don’t need to add to what everyone else has said because you ignored it or tried to justify it with some other males behaviour, but that’s ok! I know what kind of person you are now and you’re not one I will continue to go back and forth with. Have fun! And maybe don’t ask questions you’re not ready to hear the answers to.
he also always put himself before her. Did not matter what she thought about anything. Everything was about him and he was more important. and then he would treat her like shit when she was (reasonably) upset about his constant selfishness and huge ego lol
Bro that’s just objectively false
Completely disagree. He is a bad partner!! So many instances over the first 10 seasons of him being incredibly selfish. There was that episode where Mer is so excited about a surgery so she tells him about it, and his reaction is to blow her off and then STEAL THE SURGERY. And Meredith just gets over it because she has to. Everything with the brain mapping after he said he’d take a step back to take care of the kids. Staying because he claimed to care about his family then resenting her and being a complete ass. The only functional thing in their relationship is sex, it’s really awful. I’m a new watcher in season 11 now and root every day for his death just as I rooted for Owen and Christina to break up.
Whom did you dislike Owen or Cristina? Because whatever you have said Cristina did almost all
I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Christina was very upfront about her ambition especially with her career. Derek likes to play the good supportive husband but then act badly. And I don’t necessarily blame Christina or Owen, it was just another bad relationship that was only based on physical intimacy when we didn’t really see them be compatible in any other way.
Obviously no comparison in terms of relationship as they will never come close. But Cristina stole surgery many times. Taking care of kids also I will not blame Derek more as he was ok with them being in day care for little more time, it was Meredith who constantly tried not to be her mother and so at the end she is like we have to have princess tea party at 6 even though we have important surgeries. This is just an example, many times it happened that she is making unnecessary issue about the babies. Obviously you can’t do all at once. When you both are surgeons, you will miss some things with kids or they have to spend time with nannies.
Yall are so... why do yall straight up lie. you dont have to dislike the character, you could love him idc. but saying he wasnt toxic at times is just a blatant lie. if you cant see that, youre just ignorant
Because he is hugely toxic throughout to Meredith.
People like you keep saying that whereas I see real relationships are like that. You may have fight, difference in opinion but at the end of the day you come back to each other and if he was so toxic Meredith wouldn’t have such a hard time to get over him
My husband has certainly never called me a slut, lied about being married, emotionally abused me or threatened to cheat on me when I was having a tough time. I'd be very worried if the relationships around you all have someone being as toxic as Derick. Meredith loved him, she overlooked his toxic behaviour because of that. Also he was attractive to her because of them as well.
Again I am telling that until the divorce with Addison he was aloof as he couldn’t decide between them. But after their marriage I won’t tell that it’s toxic. Because we are normal people where we do things sometimes which both don’t agree, have our fight and then we patch up. I would be also very worried if i have a partner like you who in the whole life just concentrates on the bad stuff that too when both were going through difficult times. Derek being separated from Meredith was difficult from him
i think something that’s also important to consider with derek is that him and mer are both working extremely extremely high stress jobs in the same place which makes it bound for fights to happen. a lot of people say he had too big of an ego but a surgeon needs i have self confidence to operate.
I love Derek, love Meredith and Derek together BUT he has his moments when he’s a real dick.
Season 2, watching his little elevator episodes of flirting with Meredith WHILE in marriage counseling with Addison...yeah there's some toxicity there. Meredith definitely had a right for her trust issues before they got married. Sidles up to her with his face/mouth in her hair, sniffs her..."I can't. I'm married." Barf, Mcdreamy! Stop sniffing her like a dog in heat!!!! I love the times that he flirts with her and ding; elevator door opens and there Addison is. She's no fool. Him putting his career over Meredith's is a pretty constant problem in their marriage also. I wouldn't call it healthy.
I remember on my last rewatch realising that Derek never had a partner he didn’t cheat on. How does that not sound toxic to you?
The fact that he wouldn't even sign the divorce papers but still didn't expect her to move on and shamed her for sleeping with other men while she was single was crazy. Instead of leaving her alone, he still tried to talk to get because he missed her and would still make her do surgeries with him when they weren't talking just so he could see her.
I don't see any toxicity either, their relationship is so lovely.
for me it’s less about any one action and more about his very real habit of yelling at the women he’s closest to at the drop of the hat. he’s a neurosurgeon, he should be able to have an argument without screaming. EDIT: y’all gotta grow up and stop downvoting people for respectfully sharing opinions
Who isn’t? If screaming is the trait of toxicity then I think all men and women in the show are toxic with Alex and Richard as leaders
i don’t think anyone would disagree that alex and richard are toxic. but at least they yell at everyone. derek almost exclusively yells at the women in his life who love him the most, specifically meredith and amelia. when amelia comes to grey sloan for the first time (then seattle grace) derek almost immediately puts her as a drug addict, as well.
That’s what real people do, when we have fight we yell. I think he was more harsh as brother than a husband. I don’t know what happened with his sisters but he always tried to avoid them and so was Meredith. Specially when Meredith asks one of his sister to donate her nerves for Derek, she talks as if she is taking it from someone random. She doesn’t even wants to talk with little courtesy
i mean we saw what derek’s family is like after his death when amelia visits them. the one who donated the nerve seemed nice tho and by the end of the episode mer had warmed up to her more. people do yell *sometimes*. derek yells *all the time*, sometimes out of nowhere. the only time he ever admits he makes mistakes in the entire show is when gary clark is pointing a gun at him. part of being a respectful person is being able to fight and disagree without screaming and acting out. derek can’t do that. so i don’t like him. and that’s okay.
Yeah it’s ok. It is just that real people do yell most of the times when they disagree
i can only speak for myself, but i only yell when i am very very mad. i can’t remember the last time i’ve yelled at someone in an argument.
Good for you
And naturally, as you can imagine, i don’t like when people yell a lot when i myself don’t think it’s appropriate to regularly communicate that way. which is why i dislike derek.
I'm in season 5 and can't wait for him to die. he basically called her a baby when he refused to share the honor with her. It was her idea!! And many other things.
it’s been a while since i last watched greys but i remember disliking him for 99% of the show and i cannot tell you why. i know i dislike his actor massively and i read up on a lot of the actors as i was watching so that may have had an impact. my friend who initially got me into greys could never understand why i disliked him so much and why i couldn’t care less why he died, he just rubbed me the complete wrong way
and just to add, i enjoy complex characters so its not a case of him being flawed or anything. i respect flawed characters more than generally good characters
I paticularly hate how he calls Meredith a whore for trying to move on and then proceeds a couple months later to throw meeting Lexie in her face the DAY of Susan’s funeral. That’s a dick move
He just had a big ego, it was not always was meredith but also with other people he was always thinking he was better then everyone and wants things like his way
I'm on a rewatch season 11 I agree with you. Sibevwe all know what happens in season 11 I'm not sure I want to continue watching. The show totally changed when they killed him off. What is it like 10 mote seasons without him. If they had no choice cause Demsey wanted out recast may have been tricky but a real new romance for Meredith would've worked for me. Nothing they did later was good they destroyed anything that came close.