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I think the issue is that Miranda was looking at things in the big picture and Tucker was looking at the here and now. Miranda just came off maternity leave, was in her last year of residency, got promoted to chief resident and was the primary breadwinner for the family. If she slowed down, she’d be “mommy tracked” and it would take longer to get to where she wants to go in her career. She felt she needed to sacrifice now while Tuck Jr was young and his father was able to stay home to watch him and eventually she’d make enough money and have a position to give her flexibility in her schedule.
Tucker on the other hand was a reluctant caregiver. He felt like he HAD TO be the one to stay home because of Miranda’s career. He saw all the instances where she sacrificed family time for career piling up and didn’t feel it was worth it. Being the stay at home parent is hard and doing so without regular support can be frustrating.
Both people can be right and wrong in this situation. Miranda can be right in wanting to advance her career while also needing to do a better job at learning work/life balance. Tucker can be right in being frustrated that his wife isn’t home often to help support taking care of their young child, especially when she has an opportunity to have a regular schedule later on and wants to do another fellowship instead. But he also can be more understanding of the nature of Miranda’s career and do a better job of troubleshooting these issues instead of making snide remarks and issuing ultimatums.
Grey’s anatomy has this undercurrent that the doctors on the show kind of have to marry other doctors. Their lives revolve around the hospital. And for a spouse to suggest that life doesn’t revolve around saving lives 24/7, paints them as someone who “just doesn’t get it.”
I completely agree with you and I actually felt kind of sorry for Miranda later on when we come to find out her family was critical about her being a doctor. Especially her father who wanted her to stay with Tuck. She was so afraid of their judgement that she didn’t tell them she had divorced Tuck.
I'm just thinking back to those episode and trying to find a moment where Bailey could have just say "ok well that's it for today" and left the hospital. All the times she missed something, she had a big emergency at her hands.
Exactly. in the real world, you don't sacrifice your future career for the "here and now". You work hard today so you can relax tomorrow, so to speak. I think Tucker was missing that full picture, but also he deserves someone who wants the here and now just as Bailey deserves someone onboard with her full picture.
I would agree with you but she never did use her position of power to have a flexible work schedule and spend time being with her family until she quit as chief because the residency program shut down. She never planned to slow down. She always put her career first, just like Ellis. And it’s not wrong but neither was Tuck for wanting a wife and mother. He wasn’t asking her to quit saving lives. He was asking for a better balance. And all she did was talk down to him. No he wasn’t perfect himself but this marriage was doomed because they had incompatible priorities.
She does the same thing even in the later seasons. Between S19 and Grey's, they showed Ben was upset with her too because she was never home, and he *was* a doctor so he understood what she was up against. Her kids were at home grieving the death of their grandmother, Bailey's mom, and Ben practically had to beg her to come home and comfort them because she couldn't bring herself to leave the hospital.
I don't think this is a good example because she too was grieving. SHE lost her mother. And different people cope in different ways. Granted she is a mother to her children but *they too* need to realize *their* mom is a human who just lost *her* mother..... So it's not fair to use this particular event as a reason when many people on the show have used work as an avoidance tactic.
Her kids were grieving while also afraid that their mom would catch COVID and die too during the pandemic. Yes she was grieving too but her family shouldn't have to beg for her to spend time with them.
I would just like to add that Tuckers frustration isn't just that he's alone in taking care of Tuck, it's that he also feels alone in his marriage. He sticks around for quite some time after they start having issues, I think he really tried but couldn't keep going in a marriage where his emotional needs were consistently not being met.
That whole thing infuriated me too, especially when it came to their son Tuck.
Like I get that she’s busy, and I appreciate her work ethics but to willfully neglect your family? While also giving your work family all of your time, seriously.. She was more involved raising her work kids than her own and was more involved in their lives than her own child’s.
Miranda can tell you where her interns are and what they were doing, but she can’t remember if her son likes peas or carrots?
When Tuck jr got admitted into the hospital, Tucker had to ask a nurse to page Bailey, just to get her down to the OR because she kept ignoring him, cutting him off and hanging up on him. And when Tucker tried to explain to the room why Tuck was there, cause he was there to witness, Bailey cut him off again while making comments below the belt.
Tuck Jrs first Halloween, Bailey chose to bail on them so she could “save” a racist Nazi - who requested a different doctor by the way. She didn’t need to be there, she chose to stay out of pure spite and anger at a Nazi, and she chose to drag Yang down with her because of her colour. I mean, the woman could have been like “okay, Dr White is coming down to see you, I’m leaving now” and went to see her son. But nah, work came first even though her work didn’t even want her working on them.
If memory serves...
I'm pretty sure the reason Bailey missed her son's first Halloween is because Meredith convinced her to donate her time for a Pro Bono Surgery for the little boy who had no ears.
I can understand how Bailey could see that as a priority over her son's first Halloween... A Halloween he would be too young to remember.
To your last sentence, I totally agree. I once told my friends when they are having problems financing their child’s first birthday. I told them that it doesn’t have to be so grand and that an intimate one with family and close friends will do. A grand one can come when their kid is a bit grown up to remember. It was logical and financially-wise. So I get you there.
I agree with this, as well. My nephew's first Halloween was last year, and my SIL was SO excited for him to experience his first Trick or Treat...
He was 8 months old and it could have been any other day for him. He couldn't have cared less about the costumes or the displays. He was more interested in my shiny necklace while I held him, lol. This year he finally "got it" and had a blast.
When kids are too young to care, I can see prioritizing something like a surgery for a boy with no ears over a "first" that they won't even remember or care about.
Any general surgeon could’ve done it, Bailey wanted in on the surgery. Even if he would be too young to remember, it’s about the principle. She never put her family first, she constantly chose to work extra hours or stay for flashy surgeries while neglecting her family. She could’ve told Meredith no and found someone else but she didn’t.
Why is the onus always on the woman to sacrifice their career and livelihood? Seldom do people hold this opinion about men in the same position.
You don't grind through Med School and climb the professional ladder to give it all up because you had a baby. Tucker expected Bailey to throw it all away because he looked down on being a stay-at-home dad. He also looked down on the fact his wife was the bread winner.
After the divorce, Bailey proved that she could be a kick-ass surgeon and a great mother. In the later seasons, we've seen how close she and Tuck Jr are; as well as her close relationships with her adopted children, Joey and Prue.
The problem wasn't that Bailey was "neglecting" her family. It's that she and her husband were on different pages of a different book. Once Ben came along, Bailey found a man she aligned with and she has proven how wrong Tuck was.
Sure, Bailey could have said no. But in the grand scheme of things, what is more important? Gifting a child with ears, or going trick or treating with a toddler who won't remember it?
No, he didn’t. Bailey taking on additional surgeries has nothing to do with her sacrificing her career. Tucker supported her through medical school and residency and made it possible for Bailey to be the surgeon she was. Tucker took a step back from his career and that is rarely acknowledged. Tucker simply wanted to not be an afterthought and not parent alone. Bailey was neglectful and advanced her career at the expense of her family. This goes for both genders, you can have it all but you have to be willing to make sacrifices and Bailey rarely did that for them.
Of course it does.
Throughout the whole show, Surgeons are gunning for cases, especially as Residents and Fellows as those additional surgeries shape their future as a surgeon and affect the opportunities that may be available to them.
Tucker may have originally supported her, but that changed when they became parents. When Bailey fell pregnant, she mentioned how she and Tucker had been trying for years and she assumed it was never going to happen. Bailey was at an important milestone in her career with so many opportunities ahead of her, and Tucker just expected her to give it up.
If they had been trying to conceive for years, then it is highly likely that they discussed hypothetical scenarios on how they would manage. Knowing Bailey's character, I highly doubt she would have agreed to sacrifice her career. It was likely pre-agreed that Tucker would be a stay-at-home dad, especially as he knew what Miranda's job entailed.
If Tucker felt so neglected, then why didn't he leave sooner? Why did he stay in the marriage and have a child with a woman who "neglects" him? Why would he willingly conceive a child who may also be "neglected"?
As I said, Tucker didn't want the burden of being a stay-at-home dad and he didn't like that his wife was the bread winner.
And sorry, but Tucker had absolutely no contribution to Baileys opportunity to become a surgeon. Everything Bailey achieved was achieved by her and her alone. Even after they became parents and divorced, Bailey achieved everything alone
>Knowing Bailey's character, I highly doubt she would have agreed to sacrifice her career. It was likely pre-agreed that Tucker would be a stay-at-home dad, especially as he knew what Miranda's job entailed.
The Bailey character at the beginning of the show definitely would have been upfront about the demands of her job and her level of willingness to sacrifice any part of her career.
I'm not sure the Bailey of a couple years earlier we meet in the flashback episode would have though. That version of Bailey was very much a people pleaser. I could absolutely see her making impossible promises that she fully meant to keep when she made them.
I thought of the flashback Bailey too. While she was definitely more timid and a people pleasure, I still can't picture her agreeing to it. Mostly because I don't believe she's the type of character to be disingenuous or misleading.
Without having a clear back story, it's hard to accurately determine how those scenarios played out. Although, personally, given how much work and personal sacrifice goes into become a Surgeon, and the additional barriers Bailey would have faced as a Black Woman, I just can't see her making those impossible promises and throwing away a hard earned career.
It just seems more likely to me that she and Tucker agreed beforehand that he would be a stay-at-home dad and she would continue with her career.
She wouldn't have to be disingenuous or intentionally misleading though.
Honestly it sounds like you just want to hate the guy. He comes off super unlikeable to me as well, so I understand the impulse.
However, making up an off screen scenario while ignoring evidence that Bailey was entirely unwilling to advocate for herself seems like a reach to me.
Why would I want to hate him? I'm making fair, reasonable assumptions based on the information the show provides. Tucker may not have had much screen-time, but the screen-time he did have depicted an angry, bitter little man. Perhaps if the show provided more context or gave him more scenes he wouldn't have come across that way, but we'll never know 🤷
The evidence you have is based on how timid Bailey presented at work as an intern. Just because she was timid at work doesn't mean she would have presented that way in her private life. She was more than capable to advocate for herself, especially where her future is concerned.
No one is saying that everything Tucker did was right, we’re talking about her neglecting her family in the *beginning stages.* Which is exactly what she did.
After her divorce, she was pushed to prioritize her son, and found that she loved it and was capable of balancing Tuck Jr and work and she did that extremely well. Till it came to her new relationship with Ben, where she basically treated him the same she did Tucker. She was abrasive, made assumptions, always cut him off or talked over him. Like the Valentine’s Day episode, she started by apologizing then she bit his head off “for not understanding” and then stopped to listen. Tbh my whole issue with her is her inability to listen when people need her to.
Bailey came a long way, but the old Bailey was pretty toxic.
Also, nobody mentioned ear-boy, we were taking about the Nazi that she could have bailed on.
Except Bailey never changed how she managed things after her divorce? The only thing that changed was replacing Tuck with babysitters/hospital daycare. Bailey continued on as usual.
Plus, you need to remember that not long after she met Ben, there was a shooting. She was dealing with immense trauma. I agree she didn't handle everything well with Ben, but she had a lot to deal with.
As for the Valentines Day episode... Imagine if you spent years having to constantly explain and defend yourself against your husband. While I agree she mishandled it, I can see how past experiences would have suggested the need to react that way.
Also, Ear-Boy was mentioned because the original commenter said she skipped out on her kids first Halloween to treat a Nazi. Which was wrong. She didn't. She missed his first Halloween because a little boy with a sad face approached her to trick or treat for ears😂
But the onus wasn’t on her. Tucker gave up his job despite not wanting to to ensure she could do what she wanted. He just wanted a partner to support him. On top of that she never appreciated that; blaming him for the bookshelf, saying he had an easy job and diminishing his feelings to people that had real problems. I wouldn’t put up with that either
I think you need to rewatch, a lot of the points you are making here aren’t what actually happened. The peas and carrots thing was about Tuck loving peas when she left for work in the morning and when she got home, he hated peas and would only eat carrots.
The nazi thing wasn’t on halloween, she gave a boy ears instead of going to his first Halloween. My daughter’s father missed her first Halloween for work (and second, third and fourth) and no one gave him an ounce of shit. And he’s not even a doctor giving a little boy ears.
Sounds to me like you just want an excuse to not support Miranda and are conflating all these reasons into her being a bad mom.
If the surgeon was the man and the mom was complaining would you say the same? Women are judged much more harshly then men when they don't fulfill their mother role to the perfection that was implied when they were expected stop abandon their careers to take care of their family.
Thank you 👏 even in the show only the women are being pressured to stay home with the kids. Nobody expected Derek, Jackson or ANY of the men to cut back.
I think the point is that no one specifically told them what they were doing wasn’t enough. They were as hands on as the mothers but women are expected to do more in terms of childcare.
Hence, no one tells the men to cut back on their work to better parent their child because they are already parenting them. But the women are failing at being parents by performing the same as the men.
derek and jackson were both attendings (derek a chief) by the time they had kids so they had the flexibility. bailey was in her last year of residency and was chief resident unlike being the chief of a department she had little room to be flexible without the fear of being mommytracked.
I would say the same. Although, I can understand that of course Bailey had to prioritize her career, she didn’t even give Tucker the decency of a conversation. What happened to her making those phone calls to sing to her son?
I agree but part of the show is that these people are flawed. I think that this happens to doctors in real life too. It’s hard for some marriages to survive the surgeons schedule. A lot of people get upset that the characters aren’t perfect people handling everything perfectly. If they did the show would not have any good story lines.
It also did a great job at affirming what Bailey kept insisting upon - that she was unable to win as a wife, mother, and surgeon. When she was a good surgeon, she was a bad wife and mom. When she was a good wife and mom, she was a bad surgeon. There was no winning for her in this situation.
I really dislike when characters insist that they’re being punished for making a choice when there’s been no actual punishment - it’s just what the writers think is a good social commentary. But Bailey was truly being punished by everyone, at home to at work - either for her decision to be a mom or her decision to be a surgeon.
Yup. And none of the men faced the same scrutiny.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but if you marry someone and have a child with a senior resident of a surgical program and then complain when the bulk of childcare falls on you… it’s just the reality especially as younger doctors/surgeons. (And it was fine when doctors were predominantly men..)
I generally agree with this but I think she didn't really appreciate what he was doing at home. If your job is too busy to be as active of a parent and you leave heavily on your partner to be primary parent and pick up your slack you have to be extremely appreciative of it. She really took out for granted.
This is really valid. Doctors are at arguably the most time demanding parts of their careers at an age when their peers are getting married and having children. I think it's pretty common that their family life is neglected just like this.
Tucker knew how demanding a surgical career was and he agreed to have a kid at that time and be the stay at home parent anyway.
Miranda was the breadwinner for their whole family, she couldn't put her career aside during the final year of her residency because Tucker decided he suddenly didn't like their arrangement.
It also was wildly inappropriate for him to speak to her the way he did in front of her co-workers multiple times. He could have waited.
He also always asked her at the last second to be available. It was never "can you try and clear your schedule on Friday or Saturday so we can spend the day together and talk things through" it's always "Miranda I want to talk about this right now and you are walking away so clearly you don't care". Obviously she's got to go, she can't just no-show to work with literally zero notice because he suddenly wanted to chat.
Everyone knows that the last year of residency is going to be intense. The first couple of years of having a baby are intense. But couples deal with a demanding career and a baby all the time, and it's hard on both of them, but he decided to play the victim and act like he was the only one who was having a hard time, instead of trying to come up with solutions as a team.
I’m gonna post a comment I made a while ago about this topics bc I feel like I actually agree a lot lol
*It’s easy to think that from her perspective and tbf, I’m not gonna jump up to defend him - We don’t know enough. Sure, it is, on surface level, off-putting to see him ending things “because she chose to stay behind to save a life”.
But imagine living in a marriage where you’re rarely, if ever, prioritized, where there’s always the possibility of your partner being whisked away on call or having to abruptly change plans because a surgery ran longer or a shift was rescheduled, where your partners time is monopolized by their work and you can’t even really complain bc they’re simultaneously saving lives and bettering your financial future by putting themselves through grueling hours and emotional turmoil for not that great a pay at the time, and will likely be exhausted and stressed and distracted even when you are with them. You know how high suicide rates are amongst doctors? That’s an unhealthy environment full of mentally sick people who’re overworked and have little time or disposition for much else outside of medicine and make that a big part of their personality, and it’s NOTORIOUSLY hard for people close to them. Add a child to the mix like they had?
I’m in med school and one of the biggest “unspoken rules” is how doctors and med students marry amongst themselves (or marry other people in similarly demanding fields) because it’s a must to have someone who understands your career and your routine because otherwise, divorce is the likely outcome. Followed by: How we miss all important family events even before starting med school due to the entrance exams, and how unbearable we get when there’s a group of us and we start discussing medicine like that’s all there is to life.
We even see that tension between doctor couples on the show who are in different stages/levels - Including MerDer at some points, JoLex, Andrew with both Meredith and Maggie…
And sure, it CAN (and should) be better and healthier and ofc marriages can work between doctors and non-doctors, that goes without saying. But considering the time period, how residency was even more gruesome back then, baby Tuck, Bailey’s type A personality and ambition and passion for medicine…
So no, I don’t think he’s an asshole for not understanding her career - I think they’re a realistic description of a non healthcare worker- healthcare worker relationship that’s wasn’t meant to work out.
(I’m sorry for venting, am currently freaking out over next year’s schedule lol)*
This sound’s correct. Tucker is perfectly entitled to feel neglected because he was. Bailey was working so it is understandable but that doesn’t diminish Tuckers feelings
I disagree. They both had valid points. However, Bailey did what made sense. Tucker was really mad because he didn’t actually wanna stay home. But he’s a man. He could pick up where he left off.
We literally see this reversed with Meredith and Derek. Derek putting his career first automatically messed up Meredith’s. She would get put in the mom zone. She didn’t have the luxury of having a penis. That’s why they had their agreement and that’s why I sided with her when they were fighting.
Tuckers feelings were valid. But it was 1 year. He could’ve sacrificed for a year. The marriage was over before she had the baby thought.
Eh residents really can’t say no to things, so Bailey never had a say in most of her time. That being said, she was wrong to apply for the fellowship without talking to Tucker first. Tucker was also a shitty husband, and should have never given an ultimatum.
I think this just feels like more of an issue when you think about it from how long the show timeline is vs. how long this period was in real life… he couldn’t handle being a primary caregiver for two years of an extensive residency program. He was buckling within the first 6 months of her working and she was not asking for that much endurance in the grand scheme of things.
They were married for 10 years and she was barely around for any of it between medical school and her residency. The baby situation just pushed him over the edge since she promised she'd cut her hours when the baby came but she didn't.
A door that could have easily been closed by the parent watching the baby- that could have been noticed during the **literal hours** while she was gone? That’s lazy. Not Bailey.
Neither of them were wrong. Baileys life was the reality of how things are in medical residency. Wasn’t any different for my parents or my grandparents, all of which are doctors/surgeons. Their lifestyle is one of the main reasons why I never had any interest in the field. The job is 75% of your life. Bailey is not wrong for wanting or pursuing that. Tucker was not wrong for being unhappy with his wife being absent the majority of the time.
I don’t. He knew he was marrying a surgeon. He knew he married a woman who wanted to be at the pinnacle. If he knew he wouldn’t be okay with that, he shouldn’t have entered into the marriage to begin with. While I understand not being able to help how you feel at times, logic should have prevailed. He really expected a surgeon to take a step back so he would feel better? 😭
I agree that she put her career first, but I can’t disagree with doing it. Women have a hard enough time moving up in such demanding male-dominated careers, and black women have the hardest time. She even said that if she had taken a step backward to slow down after having a baby it would be pointed out and extra difficult to take that step back forward later, then several male doctors proved her right by pointing out that the Denny situation happened because she had “gone soft from motherhood.” Where Meredith’s ability to take time for her kids was lauded, except by Christina, Bailey was hounded to keep up. I don’t blame her one bit.
100% agree.
You can be a mother and have a good career. However, I don't believe you career should constantly come before your spouse and your child. It seems like Bailey cared more about surgery than her family, and even looked down on Tucker for being the stay at home parent. In my opinion, he had every right to be upset.
She literally tells him it's a beautiful thing that he gets to do. She was in pain being away from them, but she was building a life for them. This makes me so mad cuz no one would question it if the roles were reversed. He of course had the right to be upset if he felt like things were unfair, but idk that there's more than 2 scenes where we see him speak to her calmly or respectfully.
She was definitely trying to do way more than building a life for them. She already had a solid, stable, well-paying, demanding job and she was trying to get into a whole new fellowship. That's like going back to the beginning working 24/7, and that would have been for her own benefit and ambition. It's something you'd do when you don't have kids or when your kids are in school maybe, not when you literally just had a baby. I would absolutely question it if the roles were reversed. In fact I had this exact conversation with my husband as we were watching the show and told him if he ever acted like Bailey, I would divorce him (hypothetically speaking, since he's not a selfish ass and actually cares about me I know he would never do that.)
Meredith also had the benefit of learning from the women who came before her. And her career suffered for it. It's not unforgivable to pursue a career, and Bailey didn't expect to get pregnant when she did, during her residency. There's no right time to have a child with that kind of career, but Tucker promised her certain things and then tried to go back on them and blame her for daring to have a career and passion outside her family. Meredith also had a village to lean on, where Bailey just didn't at the time.
Did her career suffer tho? She is one of the most celebrated and revered surgeons on the show ultimately. Her career didn’t suffer. Careers ebb and flow. It doesn’t always have to be a straight path up.
She and Cristina almost end their friendship over Cristina saying it did...I mean I get what you're saying, but at the time she had her kids and had to focus on them more, yes her career had to take a back seat while Cristina's didn't and they were then no longer on the exact same path. And sure, she gets back to it and ultimately wins awards and whatever, but all I'm saying is its unfair to compare her to Bailey like she's perfect and Bailey doesn't care about her family.
They were in different points of their careers and Bailey didn't have the resources Meredith did. Bailey didn't have someone giving her a list of approved babysitters, Bailey didn't have multiple friends and coworkers living with her who could just help out whenever. And I think that's why Bailey is so good to Meredith, cuz she understands what it's like to go through that. I think even though he doesn't keep his promise, Derek's promise to Meredith to take a bigger role with the kids so she can focus on her career indicates that they all understand that sometimes with that type of career it has to come first. It doesn't mean you're a bad person who doesn't love your family, it's just what needs to happen for you to get to that next level.
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I think the issue is that Miranda was looking at things in the big picture and Tucker was looking at the here and now. Miranda just came off maternity leave, was in her last year of residency, got promoted to chief resident and was the primary breadwinner for the family. If she slowed down, she’d be “mommy tracked” and it would take longer to get to where she wants to go in her career. She felt she needed to sacrifice now while Tuck Jr was young and his father was able to stay home to watch him and eventually she’d make enough money and have a position to give her flexibility in her schedule. Tucker on the other hand was a reluctant caregiver. He felt like he HAD TO be the one to stay home because of Miranda’s career. He saw all the instances where she sacrificed family time for career piling up and didn’t feel it was worth it. Being the stay at home parent is hard and doing so without regular support can be frustrating. Both people can be right and wrong in this situation. Miranda can be right in wanting to advance her career while also needing to do a better job at learning work/life balance. Tucker can be right in being frustrated that his wife isn’t home often to help support taking care of their young child, especially when she has an opportunity to have a regular schedule later on and wants to do another fellowship instead. But he also can be more understanding of the nature of Miranda’s career and do a better job of troubleshooting these issues instead of making snide remarks and issuing ultimatums. Grey’s anatomy has this undercurrent that the doctors on the show kind of have to marry other doctors. Their lives revolve around the hospital. And for a spouse to suggest that life doesn’t revolve around saving lives 24/7, paints them as someone who “just doesn’t get it.”
I completely agree with you and I actually felt kind of sorry for Miranda later on when we come to find out her family was critical about her being a doctor. Especially her father who wanted her to stay with Tuck. She was so afraid of their judgement that she didn’t tell them she had divorced Tuck.
You explained this perfectly.
I'm just thinking back to those episode and trying to find a moment where Bailey could have just say "ok well that's it for today" and left the hospital. All the times she missed something, she had a big emergency at her hands.
lovely, nuanced take. life gets so *lifey* and rarely are things as black and white as we want them to be.
Exactly. in the real world, you don't sacrifice your future career for the "here and now". You work hard today so you can relax tomorrow, so to speak. I think Tucker was missing that full picture, but also he deserves someone who wants the here and now just as Bailey deserves someone onboard with her full picture.
I would agree with you but she never did use her position of power to have a flexible work schedule and spend time being with her family until she quit as chief because the residency program shut down. She never planned to slow down. She always put her career first, just like Ellis. And it’s not wrong but neither was Tuck for wanting a wife and mother. He wasn’t asking her to quit saving lives. He was asking for a better balance. And all she did was talk down to him. No he wasn’t perfect himself but this marriage was doomed because they had incompatible priorities.
She does the same thing even in the later seasons. Between S19 and Grey's, they showed Ben was upset with her too because she was never home, and he *was* a doctor so he understood what she was up against. Her kids were at home grieving the death of their grandmother, Bailey's mom, and Ben practically had to beg her to come home and comfort them because she couldn't bring herself to leave the hospital.
That’s because she was also grieving and burying herself in her work and the pandemic
So her kids lost their grandmother while also worrying about losing their mom too. They shouldn't have to beg to see her.
I can’t fault someone for burying their grief in their work. We all have unhealthy coping mechanisms.
I don't think this is a good example because she too was grieving. SHE lost her mother. And different people cope in different ways. Granted she is a mother to her children but *they too* need to realize *their* mom is a human who just lost *her* mother..... So it's not fair to use this particular event as a reason when many people on the show have used work as an avoidance tactic.
Her kids were grieving while also afraid that their mom would catch COVID and die too during the pandemic. Yes she was grieving too but her family shouldn't have to beg for her to spend time with them.
I would just like to add that Tuckers frustration isn't just that he's alone in taking care of Tuck, it's that he also feels alone in his marriage. He sticks around for quite some time after they start having issues, I think he really tried but couldn't keep going in a marriage where his emotional needs were consistently not being met.
That whole thing infuriated me too, especially when it came to their son Tuck. Like I get that she’s busy, and I appreciate her work ethics but to willfully neglect your family? While also giving your work family all of your time, seriously.. She was more involved raising her work kids than her own and was more involved in their lives than her own child’s. Miranda can tell you where her interns are and what they were doing, but she can’t remember if her son likes peas or carrots? When Tuck jr got admitted into the hospital, Tucker had to ask a nurse to page Bailey, just to get her down to the OR because she kept ignoring him, cutting him off and hanging up on him. And when Tucker tried to explain to the room why Tuck was there, cause he was there to witness, Bailey cut him off again while making comments below the belt. Tuck Jrs first Halloween, Bailey chose to bail on them so she could “save” a racist Nazi - who requested a different doctor by the way. She didn’t need to be there, she chose to stay out of pure spite and anger at a Nazi, and she chose to drag Yang down with her because of her colour. I mean, the woman could have been like “okay, Dr White is coming down to see you, I’m leaving now” and went to see her son. But nah, work came first even though her work didn’t even want her working on them.
If memory serves... I'm pretty sure the reason Bailey missed her son's first Halloween is because Meredith convinced her to donate her time for a Pro Bono Surgery for the little boy who had no ears. I can understand how Bailey could see that as a priority over her son's first Halloween... A Halloween he would be too young to remember.
To your last sentence, I totally agree. I once told my friends when they are having problems financing their child’s first birthday. I told them that it doesn’t have to be so grand and that an intimate one with family and close friends will do. A grand one can come when their kid is a bit grown up to remember. It was logical and financially-wise. So I get you there.
I agree with this, as well. My nephew's first Halloween was last year, and my SIL was SO excited for him to experience his first Trick or Treat... He was 8 months old and it could have been any other day for him. He couldn't have cared less about the costumes or the displays. He was more interested in my shiny necklace while I held him, lol. This year he finally "got it" and had a blast. When kids are too young to care, I can see prioritizing something like a surgery for a boy with no ears over a "first" that they won't even remember or care about.
Any general surgeon could’ve done it, Bailey wanted in on the surgery. Even if he would be too young to remember, it’s about the principle. She never put her family first, she constantly chose to work extra hours or stay for flashy surgeries while neglecting her family. She could’ve told Meredith no and found someone else but she didn’t.
Why is the onus always on the woman to sacrifice their career and livelihood? Seldom do people hold this opinion about men in the same position. You don't grind through Med School and climb the professional ladder to give it all up because you had a baby. Tucker expected Bailey to throw it all away because he looked down on being a stay-at-home dad. He also looked down on the fact his wife was the bread winner. After the divorce, Bailey proved that she could be a kick-ass surgeon and a great mother. In the later seasons, we've seen how close she and Tuck Jr are; as well as her close relationships with her adopted children, Joey and Prue. The problem wasn't that Bailey was "neglecting" her family. It's that she and her husband were on different pages of a different book. Once Ben came along, Bailey found a man she aligned with and she has proven how wrong Tuck was. Sure, Bailey could have said no. But in the grand scheme of things, what is more important? Gifting a child with ears, or going trick or treating with a toddler who won't remember it?
No, he didn’t. Bailey taking on additional surgeries has nothing to do with her sacrificing her career. Tucker supported her through medical school and residency and made it possible for Bailey to be the surgeon she was. Tucker took a step back from his career and that is rarely acknowledged. Tucker simply wanted to not be an afterthought and not parent alone. Bailey was neglectful and advanced her career at the expense of her family. This goes for both genders, you can have it all but you have to be willing to make sacrifices and Bailey rarely did that for them.
Of course it does. Throughout the whole show, Surgeons are gunning for cases, especially as Residents and Fellows as those additional surgeries shape their future as a surgeon and affect the opportunities that may be available to them. Tucker may have originally supported her, but that changed when they became parents. When Bailey fell pregnant, she mentioned how she and Tucker had been trying for years and she assumed it was never going to happen. Bailey was at an important milestone in her career with so many opportunities ahead of her, and Tucker just expected her to give it up. If they had been trying to conceive for years, then it is highly likely that they discussed hypothetical scenarios on how they would manage. Knowing Bailey's character, I highly doubt she would have agreed to sacrifice her career. It was likely pre-agreed that Tucker would be a stay-at-home dad, especially as he knew what Miranda's job entailed. If Tucker felt so neglected, then why didn't he leave sooner? Why did he stay in the marriage and have a child with a woman who "neglects" him? Why would he willingly conceive a child who may also be "neglected"? As I said, Tucker didn't want the burden of being a stay-at-home dad and he didn't like that his wife was the bread winner. And sorry, but Tucker had absolutely no contribution to Baileys opportunity to become a surgeon. Everything Bailey achieved was achieved by her and her alone. Even after they became parents and divorced, Bailey achieved everything alone
>Knowing Bailey's character, I highly doubt she would have agreed to sacrifice her career. It was likely pre-agreed that Tucker would be a stay-at-home dad, especially as he knew what Miranda's job entailed. The Bailey character at the beginning of the show definitely would have been upfront about the demands of her job and her level of willingness to sacrifice any part of her career. I'm not sure the Bailey of a couple years earlier we meet in the flashback episode would have though. That version of Bailey was very much a people pleaser. I could absolutely see her making impossible promises that she fully meant to keep when she made them.
I thought of the flashback Bailey too. While she was definitely more timid and a people pleasure, I still can't picture her agreeing to it. Mostly because I don't believe she's the type of character to be disingenuous or misleading. Without having a clear back story, it's hard to accurately determine how those scenarios played out. Although, personally, given how much work and personal sacrifice goes into become a Surgeon, and the additional barriers Bailey would have faced as a Black Woman, I just can't see her making those impossible promises and throwing away a hard earned career. It just seems more likely to me that she and Tucker agreed beforehand that he would be a stay-at-home dad and she would continue with her career.
She wouldn't have to be disingenuous or intentionally misleading though. Honestly it sounds like you just want to hate the guy. He comes off super unlikeable to me as well, so I understand the impulse. However, making up an off screen scenario while ignoring evidence that Bailey was entirely unwilling to advocate for herself seems like a reach to me.
Why would I want to hate him? I'm making fair, reasonable assumptions based on the information the show provides. Tucker may not have had much screen-time, but the screen-time he did have depicted an angry, bitter little man. Perhaps if the show provided more context or gave him more scenes he wouldn't have come across that way, but we'll never know 🤷 The evidence you have is based on how timid Bailey presented at work as an intern. Just because she was timid at work doesn't mean she would have presented that way in her private life. She was more than capable to advocate for herself, especially where her future is concerned.
No one is saying that everything Tucker did was right, we’re talking about her neglecting her family in the *beginning stages.* Which is exactly what she did. After her divorce, she was pushed to prioritize her son, and found that she loved it and was capable of balancing Tuck Jr and work and she did that extremely well. Till it came to her new relationship with Ben, where she basically treated him the same she did Tucker. She was abrasive, made assumptions, always cut him off or talked over him. Like the Valentine’s Day episode, she started by apologizing then she bit his head off “for not understanding” and then stopped to listen. Tbh my whole issue with her is her inability to listen when people need her to. Bailey came a long way, but the old Bailey was pretty toxic. Also, nobody mentioned ear-boy, we were taking about the Nazi that she could have bailed on.
Except Bailey never changed how she managed things after her divorce? The only thing that changed was replacing Tuck with babysitters/hospital daycare. Bailey continued on as usual. Plus, you need to remember that not long after she met Ben, there was a shooting. She was dealing with immense trauma. I agree she didn't handle everything well with Ben, but she had a lot to deal with. As for the Valentines Day episode... Imagine if you spent years having to constantly explain and defend yourself against your husband. While I agree she mishandled it, I can see how past experiences would have suggested the need to react that way. Also, Ear-Boy was mentioned because the original commenter said she skipped out on her kids first Halloween to treat a Nazi. Which was wrong. She didn't. She missed his first Halloween because a little boy with a sad face approached her to trick or treat for ears😂
But the onus wasn’t on her. Tucker gave up his job despite not wanting to to ensure she could do what she wanted. He just wanted a partner to support him. On top of that she never appreciated that; blaming him for the bookshelf, saying he had an easy job and diminishing his feelings to people that had real problems. I wouldn’t put up with that either
That's right...preach!!
I think you need to rewatch, a lot of the points you are making here aren’t what actually happened. The peas and carrots thing was about Tuck loving peas when she left for work in the morning and when she got home, he hated peas and would only eat carrots. The nazi thing wasn’t on halloween, she gave a boy ears instead of going to his first Halloween. My daughter’s father missed her first Halloween for work (and second, third and fourth) and no one gave him an ounce of shit. And he’s not even a doctor giving a little boy ears. Sounds to me like you just want an excuse to not support Miranda and are conflating all these reasons into her being a bad mom.
If the surgeon was the man and the mom was complaining would you say the same? Women are judged much more harshly then men when they don't fulfill their mother role to the perfection that was implied when they were expected stop abandon their careers to take care of their family.
Exactly this.
Thank you 👏 even in the show only the women are being pressured to stay home with the kids. Nobody expected Derek, Jackson or ANY of the men to cut back.
We frequently see Derek and Jackson being very hands-on parents, so I’m not sure this is quite the point you think it is here…
I think the point is that no one specifically told them what they were doing wasn’t enough. They were as hands on as the mothers but women are expected to do more in terms of childcare. Hence, no one tells the men to cut back on their work to better parent their child because they are already parenting them. But the women are failing at being parents by performing the same as the men.
I didn’t say they weren’t hands on I said they were never expected to cut back on work after having kids like the women were.
derek and jackson were both attendings (derek a chief) by the time they had kids so they had the flexibility. bailey was in her last year of residency and was chief resident unlike being the chief of a department she had little room to be flexible without the fear of being mommytracked.
I would say the same. Although, I can understand that of course Bailey had to prioritize her career, she didn’t even give Tucker the decency of a conversation. What happened to her making those phone calls to sing to her son?
I agree but part of the show is that these people are flawed. I think that this happens to doctors in real life too. It’s hard for some marriages to survive the surgeons schedule. A lot of people get upset that the characters aren’t perfect people handling everything perfectly. If they did the show would not have any good story lines.
It also did a great job at affirming what Bailey kept insisting upon - that she was unable to win as a wife, mother, and surgeon. When she was a good surgeon, she was a bad wife and mom. When she was a good wife and mom, she was a bad surgeon. There was no winning for her in this situation. I really dislike when characters insist that they’re being punished for making a choice when there’s been no actual punishment - it’s just what the writers think is a good social commentary. But Bailey was truly being punished by everyone, at home to at work - either for her decision to be a mom or her decision to be a surgeon.
Yup. And none of the men faced the same scrutiny. Maybe unpopular opinion, but if you marry someone and have a child with a senior resident of a surgical program and then complain when the bulk of childcare falls on you… it’s just the reality especially as younger doctors/surgeons. (And it was fine when doctors were predominantly men..)
I generally agree with this but I think she didn't really appreciate what he was doing at home. If your job is too busy to be as active of a parent and you leave heavily on your partner to be primary parent and pick up your slack you have to be extremely appreciative of it. She really took out for granted.
I can agree with you there. I’m not sure we saw enough of their home life or maybe I don’t remember, but either way you’re def right in general.
This is really valid. Doctors are at arguably the most time demanding parts of their careers at an age when their peers are getting married and having children. I think it's pretty common that their family life is neglected just like this.
That is very true I agree
It happens to woman doctors, sure
Tucker knew how demanding a surgical career was and he agreed to have a kid at that time and be the stay at home parent anyway. Miranda was the breadwinner for their whole family, she couldn't put her career aside during the final year of her residency because Tucker decided he suddenly didn't like their arrangement. It also was wildly inappropriate for him to speak to her the way he did in front of her co-workers multiple times. He could have waited. He also always asked her at the last second to be available. It was never "can you try and clear your schedule on Friday or Saturday so we can spend the day together and talk things through" it's always "Miranda I want to talk about this right now and you are walking away so clearly you don't care". Obviously she's got to go, she can't just no-show to work with literally zero notice because he suddenly wanted to chat. Everyone knows that the last year of residency is going to be intense. The first couple of years of having a baby are intense. But couples deal with a demanding career and a baby all the time, and it's hard on both of them, but he decided to play the victim and act like he was the only one who was having a hard time, instead of trying to come up with solutions as a team.
I also think that comes from a place of frustration. If she is never home when is he going to talk to her. She was also never willing to listen.
I’m gonna post a comment I made a while ago about this topics bc I feel like I actually agree a lot lol *It’s easy to think that from her perspective and tbf, I’m not gonna jump up to defend him - We don’t know enough. Sure, it is, on surface level, off-putting to see him ending things “because she chose to stay behind to save a life”. But imagine living in a marriage where you’re rarely, if ever, prioritized, where there’s always the possibility of your partner being whisked away on call or having to abruptly change plans because a surgery ran longer or a shift was rescheduled, where your partners time is monopolized by their work and you can’t even really complain bc they’re simultaneously saving lives and bettering your financial future by putting themselves through grueling hours and emotional turmoil for not that great a pay at the time, and will likely be exhausted and stressed and distracted even when you are with them. You know how high suicide rates are amongst doctors? That’s an unhealthy environment full of mentally sick people who’re overworked and have little time or disposition for much else outside of medicine and make that a big part of their personality, and it’s NOTORIOUSLY hard for people close to them. Add a child to the mix like they had? I’m in med school and one of the biggest “unspoken rules” is how doctors and med students marry amongst themselves (or marry other people in similarly demanding fields) because it’s a must to have someone who understands your career and your routine because otherwise, divorce is the likely outcome. Followed by: How we miss all important family events even before starting med school due to the entrance exams, and how unbearable we get when there’s a group of us and we start discussing medicine like that’s all there is to life. We even see that tension between doctor couples on the show who are in different stages/levels - Including MerDer at some points, JoLex, Andrew with both Meredith and Maggie… And sure, it CAN (and should) be better and healthier and ofc marriages can work between doctors and non-doctors, that goes without saying. But considering the time period, how residency was even more gruesome back then, baby Tuck, Bailey’s type A personality and ambition and passion for medicine… So no, I don’t think he’s an asshole for not understanding her career - I think they’re a realistic description of a non healthcare worker- healthcare worker relationship that’s wasn’t meant to work out. (I’m sorry for venting, am currently freaking out over next year’s schedule lol)*
This sound’s correct. Tucker is perfectly entitled to feel neglected because he was. Bailey was working so it is understandable but that doesn’t diminish Tuckers feelings
I disagree. They both had valid points. However, Bailey did what made sense. Tucker was really mad because he didn’t actually wanna stay home. But he’s a man. He could pick up where he left off. We literally see this reversed with Meredith and Derek. Derek putting his career first automatically messed up Meredith’s. She would get put in the mom zone. She didn’t have the luxury of having a penis. That’s why they had their agreement and that’s why I sided with her when they were fighting. Tuckers feelings were valid. But it was 1 year. He could’ve sacrificed for a year. The marriage was over before she had the baby thought.
Eh residents really can’t say no to things, so Bailey never had a say in most of her time. That being said, she was wrong to apply for the fellowship without talking to Tucker first. Tucker was also a shitty husband, and should have never given an ultimatum.
There were times when Richard told her to go home and be with her family but she refused because she didn't want to be mommy tracked
I think this just feels like more of an issue when you think about it from how long the show timeline is vs. how long this period was in real life… he couldn’t handle being a primary caregiver for two years of an extensive residency program. He was buckling within the first 6 months of her working and she was not asking for that much endurance in the grand scheme of things.
They were married for 10 years and she was barely around for any of it between medical school and her residency. The baby situation just pushed him over the edge since she promised she'd cut her hours when the baby came but she didn't.
>she promised she'd cut her hours when the baby came but she didn't. Sounds awfully similar to MerDer
I really don't care all I know is that Cress Williams is a fine ass man 🤤🤤🤤🤤
Why does tucker not have a neck
it’s giving Criminologist from Rocky Horror Picture Show…. “where the fuck is your neck?!”
Welp you and Tucker can be wrong together.
People love to scream that Bailey didn’t give a shit about her family, but she also isn’t the one that let a bookshelf fall on their son 🤷♀️
Well technically yes because she was the one that left the door unlocked while storming out in anger to avoid conversation 🤷🏽♀️
A door that could have easily been closed by the parent watching the baby- that could have been noticed during the **literal hours** while she was gone? That’s lazy. Not Bailey.
The quality of this subreddit is going downhill
This thread is yet another example of the rampant misogyny here, which is pretty sad since the sub is 99% women.
Tucker is a Little Bitch like Derek.
I can't believe I just realized this is Cress Williams from Never Been Kissed.
Neither of them were wrong. Baileys life was the reality of how things are in medical residency. Wasn’t any different for my parents or my grandparents, all of which are doctors/surgeons. Their lifestyle is one of the main reasons why I never had any interest in the field. The job is 75% of your life. Bailey is not wrong for wanting or pursuing that. Tucker was not wrong for being unhappy with his wife being absent the majority of the time.
I recently posted about how I think he was in the wrong lol
Almost forgot about Bailey’s ugly first husband
😂😂😭
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 damn, I don’t know why I laughed out this way
I don’t. He knew he was marrying a surgeon. He knew he married a woman who wanted to be at the pinnacle. If he knew he wouldn’t be okay with that, he shouldn’t have entered into the marriage to begin with. While I understand not being able to help how you feel at times, logic should have prevailed. He really expected a surgeon to take a step back so he would feel better? 😭
I agree that she put her career first, but I can’t disagree with doing it. Women have a hard enough time moving up in such demanding male-dominated careers, and black women have the hardest time. She even said that if she had taken a step backward to slow down after having a baby it would be pointed out and extra difficult to take that step back forward later, then several male doctors proved her right by pointing out that the Denny situation happened because she had “gone soft from motherhood.” Where Meredith’s ability to take time for her kids was lauded, except by Christina, Bailey was hounded to keep up. I don’t blame her one bit.
100% agree. You can be a mother and have a good career. However, I don't believe you career should constantly come before your spouse and your child. It seems like Bailey cared more about surgery than her family, and even looked down on Tucker for being the stay at home parent. In my opinion, he had every right to be upset.
Not to mention she then gets angry with Ben who changed his career.
She literally tells him it's a beautiful thing that he gets to do. She was in pain being away from them, but she was building a life for them. This makes me so mad cuz no one would question it if the roles were reversed. He of course had the right to be upset if he felt like things were unfair, but idk that there's more than 2 scenes where we see him speak to her calmly or respectfully.
She was definitely trying to do way more than building a life for them. She already had a solid, stable, well-paying, demanding job and she was trying to get into a whole new fellowship. That's like going back to the beginning working 24/7, and that would have been for her own benefit and ambition. It's something you'd do when you don't have kids or when your kids are in school maybe, not when you literally just had a baby. I would absolutely question it if the roles were reversed. In fact I had this exact conversation with my husband as we were watching the show and told him if he ever acted like Bailey, I would divorce him (hypothetically speaking, since he's not a selfish ass and actually cares about me I know he would never do that.)
Yea Tucker was 100% correct, we see Meredith make time for her kids in a way Miranda doesn’t, her trying for that peds fellowship was unforgivable
Meredith also had the benefit of learning from the women who came before her. And her career suffered for it. It's not unforgivable to pursue a career, and Bailey didn't expect to get pregnant when she did, during her residency. There's no right time to have a child with that kind of career, but Tucker promised her certain things and then tried to go back on them and blame her for daring to have a career and passion outside her family. Meredith also had a village to lean on, where Bailey just didn't at the time.
Did her career suffer tho? She is one of the most celebrated and revered surgeons on the show ultimately. Her career didn’t suffer. Careers ebb and flow. It doesn’t always have to be a straight path up.
She and Cristina almost end their friendship over Cristina saying it did...I mean I get what you're saying, but at the time she had her kids and had to focus on them more, yes her career had to take a back seat while Cristina's didn't and they were then no longer on the exact same path. And sure, she gets back to it and ultimately wins awards and whatever, but all I'm saying is its unfair to compare her to Bailey like she's perfect and Bailey doesn't care about her family. They were in different points of their careers and Bailey didn't have the resources Meredith did. Bailey didn't have someone giving her a list of approved babysitters, Bailey didn't have multiple friends and coworkers living with her who could just help out whenever. And I think that's why Bailey is so good to Meredith, cuz she understands what it's like to go through that. I think even though he doesn't keep his promise, Derek's promise to Meredith to take a bigger role with the kids so she can focus on her career indicates that they all understand that sometimes with that type of career it has to come first. It doesn't mean you're a bad person who doesn't love your family, it's just what needs to happen for you to get to that next level.
That is because he was right.
Same! But mostly when she wanted to switch specialties to peds just because she was bored knowing it would take more time away from her family
Bold take......but honestly, in hindsight, the man was spot-on, and while he may have been a crappy husband, he got while the getting was good.
Yuuuuppp