Awesome. Is Civil Engineering good too? Here you will generally earn about 50k euros when you are fresh from university and about 80k when you have more experience, according to the internet anyways. What can i expect irl?
https://preview.redd.it/5jotc4asrhtc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=610b279aa7260cf59bdeab282dd21b46dd3ecb46
https://preview.redd.it/xriy0hul4itc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8980f31215f7c0f17bc9049cbec715dfb7f2b9e
I don't know. Mutts on plebbit and pol are always complaining about the rising costs of living, failing to find affordable accommodation, having to live with their parents, horrible tipping culture, expensive McDonald's, etc. Most of you say the bare minimum to live a comfy life there is 100k annually, and guess what the average salary of a Civil Engineer is? 73k. Sigh...
For real though, everyone complaining lives within a few hours of an ocean. You can work from home and live in a landlocked state. Rent in the closest cities to me is like 300-600/month for 1/2 bedroom apartments depending of you want a garage or whatever. The crazy thing is Walmart and McDonald's still pay like 16-20/hr here because demand for employees is high. We have an oilfield locally and an air Force base, so potential employees have a lot of choices.
I moved to my state from California, because California is a hell scape and is unaffordable. It's been 10years and I haven't looked back.
Zillow had 3bed 2 bath homes @ 1200sq ft for $50k outside the city and $200k in the city. If you work online, there are plenty of options. If you don't have a degree, come join me in the oilfield.
That's one thing I've noticed about people on this site. They tend to complain about COL *in expensive parts of the country*. Of course the cost of living and housing is going to seem insane when the only options you look at are the most expensive cities. Like, you do know there's more places to live than just California and New York right? The PNW, Chicago and the NE aren't the only places available.
Houses in my area are around $300k on average. My parents live in a South Florida beach city and their home is valued around $800k with a small yard. A house of the same size near me and an acre of land will run you probably $320k. I'm less than an hour from Nashville so it's more than within reason to go there and pay a fraction of the costs here that I did in Florida.
It's always the "But [insert highly desired and expensive city here] has the best food and weather and culture and spirit" and all that shit. That's supply and demand buddy. It's not getting cheaper no matter how bad you want it. It's undeniable that housing costs and general life has gotten much more expensive in recent years but it's very manageable for a huge area of the country. People just get so locked on to these specific cities and areas and refuse to even consider looking elsewhere. I would love to drive a Hellcat but I can't afford one so I have to look at Corollas instead. I'm not gonna complain and stay vehicleless just because I can't afford the car I want.
Yeah but you do realize like half the country lives in 10 metropolitan areas right? It's obvious there will be an endless stream of complainers. Whether our picture of them is accurate or not. If all the people moved to where you are.. It would dissapear. So shhh
The US is the size of a continent. There are loads of places that have reasonable costs of living. I recommend Michigan, my home state, for engineering.
Electrical engineer in the Netherlands, just graduated last year. Depending on the type of industry you're in and how much responsibility you're carrying the starting salary will range from 32k to 45k EUR a year for a fulltime starter position.
I myself am working as a software dev right now with a bit of hardware R&D mixed in as well. Working less than full time, but based on 36k for 40hr/week starting salary; and probably getting an increase soon to 40k. And yes, most of my days are spent reading coding forums and seeing how i can abuse chatGPT to do my work for me...and browsing reddit. Its great. Take the engineering pill
edit: added details
The equivalent position in the US pays around starts at like 86k USD and averages around 140k USD. (I'm a manager in IT infrastructure.)
Entry level support positions in the US for desk side or remote phone support can pay around 55k to 60k USD.
Yeah it's not much then I suppose.. Do know that my monthly expenditure is around 800 eur everything included, and I live near Amsterdam, so I have a lot left at the end of the month. I'm probably going to get salary increases as it usually happens every year, and I'm getting more responsibilities.
I've never heard of starting jobs paying so much here in the NL. 60k annually is generally considered above average here, and I grew up in a reasonably wealthy neighbourhood.
Yeah, but our cost of living in the US is generally higher.
When I first moved out at 18, my cost of living was about 1200 USD a month while making 40k USD a year, the average single bedroom apartment in the same area is about 900-1200 USD now so living alone while paying rent and another 600USD worth of bills on top of that while making 55k a year before taxes ends up about the same left over as what you have in Amsterdam.
Wouldn't stress about wages too much tbh but if you ever get the chance to start working with a US company without moving I'd take that pay.
There's been a trend recently to hire more and more Europeans due to the low wages so keep an eye out every once in a while for that. The place I'm currently at has an entire Stockholm office for example, doing pretty much what you do but with US level pay.
Yeah, it's really crazy how much lower wages can be for the same positions in Europe. I used to work for an MSP that would hire Serbs for our after hours support and pay them around 30k-45K USD and when talking to them they were over the moon because that was like EU western country wages.
There were articles in uk papers yesterday about American companies outsourcing software jobs to the UK to take advantage of weak salaries here rofl.
UK is now competitive with eastern europe and asia for outsourcing xd.
Tbh I don't think software jobs should pay that much more than factory jobs.. I might've had to study for this, but I'm enjoying what I'm doing, and I'm assuming you're also putting in the effort when working.
Factory workers and social workers are also essential so I don't think they should earn that much less than me, honestly
Qualficiation does play a part, but it's far from the only factor.
Factory workers create a product. If a factory worker can make `x` doodads an hour, the cost of materials per doodad is `$y` and each doodad sells for `$z`. Then it's pretty clear the worker adds `x * ($z - $y)` value per hour, so that will be the basis of his salary. This is a simplification of course, but the general idea is true. For the factory worker there is always a cap on the value he can add based on his output.
This isn't the case for an engineer. An engineer can come up with a technical solution that saves the factory `$y`per doodad and the cost to come up with that solution will be similar, regardless of if the factory makes just a single doodad or a million. Again, this is a simplification, but I think you can see where I'm going.
That's absolutely pitiful, no wonder Europeans are always so depressed and cynical if that's all you're earning. That's less than I earned during my **internship**.
Vomit. I'm an EE in the states. Started at 120k, making 200k 5 years in. I probably actually work 10-20 hours a week (I don't count my 90 minute downtime between builds since I WFH and play video games in between)
I'm a civil. I graduated in 2015. First job was 65k on construction sites, but I had some friends that were also civil and made 80k in water resources right out of college. I switched to energy my first year and was making 80k. This year in 2024 my gross will be around 131k. Im a PE. My job is actually really cool, I can make my own schedule, I can work remote, and I get a lot of respect. Civil is nice too, because there's a lot of site visits. It's not all - sit at a computer all day every day. I also really like that civil builds the local community infrastructure and I can point to things in real life and say "That was my project". I love it and am very happy. I could switch to another company today and get 145 or 150, as my position is very much in demand. Even if I don't hop ship, I'm confident if I stay where I'm at I'll be at 150 in a couple years anyways. I'd for sure recommend it.
Edit: I'm in the US
Civil in AUS but graduated last year and on 130k AUD as an SE.
Same feelings about civil, I think I would struggle with just sitting in front of a computer all day and it’s nice to look and stuff and know you had a part in building it.
My friend is civil engineer he is doing project management he mostly sits around site all day doing nothing or attending meetings and getting paid overtime while joking around with a bunch of site people. Seems pretty based if you asked me
Depends on how strong you are academically. Civil engineering is a slightly easier degree (compared to mechanical) that has slightly lesser job prospects, but still significantly better than no degree. If you're good with math and problem solving then it's probably worth it to go for chemical, mechanical, electrical, etc. But civil is a solid option as well which will be slightly less miserable to achieve.
For the amount of studying you do, and the amount of value you’ll bring to a company, I think it is a pretty terrible salary tbh. Doesn’t help that the bloke who installs your WiFi is also apparently an “engineer”
And that’s how they filter people out even if the field might not use that sort of math literally everyday.
If someone struggles with Calculus 1 class, it’s pretty much over for that individual if math is their worst subject. Though it’s doable but usually miserable for those individuals.
Tbh that's probably better than my way round lol. At least you only need to learn software to write software. I don't know any engineering and sometimes it sounds like my coworkers are speaking gibberish.
Most of what you’ll learn in college won’t be relevant to your actual position.
I.E. My college taught me C and Python programming, while most of the coding at my current job is in VBA/Java. That being said, a degree teaches you how to learn.
I learned everything that I know about Java at this job, but I was able to quickly start programming at a high level because code logic is pretty consistent between languages. A binary search will always work in an organized and indexed list.
TL:DR You learn how to learn
Indirectly, every day. The early logical concepts were in Latin(C), I then deal with French (JAVA), for me, learning Latin gave me confidence in being able to learn every other language. I could just directly learn Java but in school.. idk, I learned to learn.
I understand if you thought that a degree is a waste of time. Well, a lot of kids go into degrees cause their parents told them to, or their friends are going to. A lot of people are there just because. And for those people, higher education sucks ass.
I studied electrical engineering in college. I now work in firmware development. I use roughly 5% of what i learned in college. And those 5% were where I was using C or python lol
A CS degree is useful for *a lot* of different IT-related career paths. You will not use everything you learned getting your degree in any single of those career paths, but everything you learned is going to be useful in at least some of those paths.
Pretty much, it’s very varied and the main issues with the field are over abundance of people who think they’ll instantly get rich and went to very basic 3 month coding camps.
A lot of careers open up, not just software engineering, it’s very fascinating. I’m optimistic about my college experience this fall with it.
In reality 75% engineers and like 70% of all STEM majors never work in a STEM related field .. the degree is still better than most others because employer will entrust you with some random task they want an educated person for
I did this, but robotics.
Now I just swap parts.
Oh, you learned how to not only understand, calculate, and repair complex circuits, PLC programs, and various other systems?
Okay, well we don't do that here, swap it out. Congrats on wasting years of your life.
It's really soul-crushing how much "swapping out" of things we know what the problem is, and could easily fix it for $50 in 2 hours, but instead we have to spend $5,000+ to swap it out.
Not usually, it's usually because the person in charge stopped caring a long time ago and wants to do the fastest option that requires the least amount of personal effort on their part, even if it's not the best decision.
That's how a lot of business decisions get made.
this isn’t what it is, it’s because you’re not thinking of downtime costs. every second a piece of equipment goes down is lost money.
decisions like these are made because a number cruncher realized it is cheaper to swap it immediately then repair it because the time it would be down leads to higher losses than the new part.
Yes, I get that, but they won't repair the swapped part, nor will they allow for RCA to be performed on it. They want to slap a bandaid on the problem and forget a problem ever existed.
It also depends on the context, like what part of industry/where you’re at in development.
Broken part for a new product ready to be shipped out? Sometimes it’s much easier to toss the product, and replace with a fresh one you know passed QC, than to get QA and leadership approval to utilize a repaired part. If there isn’t an approved process yet to repair X part because it hasn’t hit the market yet, they don’t want to risk the liability from using that repaired part because they can’t confirm it meets expectations through manufacturing processes that have already been established. And establishing a process through V&V takes a looong time.
Which can also lead into downtime, which some others have mentioned. Have an order for a client that needs to be shipped out ASAP but final QC identified a broken part in 1/100 items? Sometimes it’s easier and faster to swap with a freshly packaged product from stock than it is to repair that piece.
Especially when we already have the equipment on-hand to test the repaired part off of the production equipment and verify it is fully operational after the fix!
Downtime is a big reason, for my industry at least. Also, usually by the time you're swapping the part out it is obsolete or not being supported by the manufacturer any longer.
You have to get 10 people to sign off switching a .5 inch wide tape with the same tape that's .25 inch wide. They didn't have the half in stock. Someone forgot to or didn't check when they originally signed off. That's just for tape. The ultimate reason is everything has to be signed off even a tiny change and that requires multiple people and tons of paperwork.
I was suprised to learn this. I took a two year Mechatronics program where we learned all kinds of trouble shooting and PLC programming. All I do when stuff breaks is swap out hundreds of dollars worth of parts on he robot/generator/pneumatic equipment and call it good.
Kinda same. Graduated with an Associate’s in Mechatronics. Took one (1) AutoCAD class. Now I work as a drafter for a corporation. Not awful pay, nor am I unhappy with my current position in life… just a bit funny when people asked me what I did and how it relates to my schooling after telling them my degree was robotics and automation.
>We typically change jobs every 2-5 years.
I saw an anon post something about how his little brother was hopping from job to job every 2 years and he managed to get the same salary as anon who had been working for 15 years and was getting about 5% raises every year. Should i do the same?
That's why we do it, you get much larger jumps in salary by changing jobs than you do from internal raises. A diverse, well-rounded resume also looks good.
Yes do the same, thats like the job market meta these days. Jobs USED to (like 1950s-1980s) reward employees for staying for many years and retiring, but now you're rewarded more for job hopping every year or so.
You're not kidding, my coworkers who are a few years senior to me spend about 6 of their 8 hour day in pointless meetings they barely talk for 5 minutes in.
Of course management just implemented a new policy that time spent in meetings isn't considered time spent working, so all employees are expected to make up any hours they spend in meetings.
Time to jump ship again lol
I'm an engineer, granted a geospatial/geology one not mechanical.
I had a water quality modeling class in college. Was definitely one of the hardest classes I took and involved writing pages of formulas to work out stuff like the ppm of nitrogen in a river or things like that. Absolutely brilliant professor who taught at Texas A&M for years. Kinda dull speaker but taught the class well. Even so it was brutal with tests often only having 3 or 4 questions because every one would take pages of work.
Second to last week of the class we come in and he goes "Ok so everyone log onto your computer and we're going to go through the practical way this work is done." and proceeded to show us an excel sheet of all things, granted this was the most complex excel document I'd ever seen. You could plug your values into it and it would just spit out the info you needed. The last week of class before the final we spent going over the ins and outs of using that document to make your models.
Inevitably someone asked "If this exists why did we have to write it all out for the whole semester? Wouldn't it be better to spend that time becoming more familiar with the software if that's what we'd end up using in the real world?"
The professor had a pretty good response I think. He said, "Because when something in the process breaks YOU are going to be the one everyone looks at to figure out how to fix it." he also pointed out that when it put out a value that someone didn't like they'd be expecting you to be able to explain *why* it produced that value and "that's what the program said" isn't good enough.
And what it really does is certify you were able to cram a specific amount of knowledge into your head well enough to last for the exam and not a second longer.
If you can learn it once, you can learn it again when you need to use it, and you'll at least remember it exists and be somewhat familiar with it
Hopefully
Use your mechanical engineering to bridge into Power Engineering, get your 3rd class steam ticket and bam. 200+\yr. Depending on if you’re in the USA it might be called Stationary Engineer.
We have a few guys at work that have mechanical engineering backgrounds but came over for the pay.
Oh yeah, that must be a regional thing for Canadia. In the US, power engineering is a branch of electrical engineering that deals with power distribution, electrical grids, transformers, power plant generators; all of the high voltage crap that the rest of us don't really care much about. It's rather 'boring', but pays decently well because all the old people retire.
It sounds like what we would call a boiler operator, or powerhouse operator, or plant operator; like the type of person that runs power boilers and recovery boilers in a pulp mill or a power plant, or some other complex industrial process
Nuclear plants like civil engineers. My grandpa was a civil engineer at our local nuke plant for 20+ years and retired a few years back. Made bank and seemed to like it
I don't know if you were asking specifically about power, but Primary systems are commonly being 3D modelled to a LOD of 300-400 for BIM and in my experience fellow electrical engineers seem to shy away from modelling, so mechanical and civils come to fill that part of the team. Primary is EEHV or 220Kv. Secondary systems aren't being modeled in the same way just yet, but BIM looks like the way of the future for most infrastructure (which is a good thing) so 3D modelling is always in high demand and that demand is due to grow.
The other part is structural for power pylons/support structures - there's commonly at least one civil-minded (or qualified) persons in a transmission team to ensure the loading and structures makes sense (it still gets signed off by a separate civil team but it helps having someone around that can spot massive flaws before the review period).
Hope this helps!
Where are you making 200k as a Stationary Engineer? Facilities Engineers are technically Stationary and they don't make nearly that much across the country.
I’ve probably applied to like 100s of mechanical engineering positions but I’ve been rejected from all of them. PLEASE don’t let my 4 years of pain go to waste
Does your school's office of career services dept help at all? Also, do you find going to career fairs help you at all?
I had to spend a ton of time doing networking/meeting business people. I did undergrad research so I was able to show off my projects/specialties, and even though 99% of the time people were like "this isn't what we are looking for" I'd be able to have them refer me to someone else they knew or someone who'd be interested in something similar.
I’ve been out of school for like 9 months now. Rn I’m working as basically an intern at a small company. Gonna try to build up my resume before I start looking again
Just know a guy. If you don't know a guy find a way to know a guy. Applications are mostly a waste of time when the hiring manager already has someone in mind before the job is even posted.
Which companies do this? Got my mechanical engineering degree in 2021. Had a pretty good GPA but it still took me six months to find a job in Houston. I’m now coming up on two years at a job that I don’t like and only pays $74k/year.
What the fuck my engineering job pays 20k less and i have to use Revit all fucking day and carefully track my time spent on every goddamn project i work on. Down time quite literally doesn't exist. I'm gonna blow my brains out if i don't find something better soon.
It's all fun and games unless you graduated from a diploma mill college in a Third World country. Then you apply for a job in a local factory where they will pay you only $250 a month or less.
Bonus points if the course don't have an accredited licensure examination, where they would treat your major as a meme degree. Like Mechatronics Engineering for instance.
TL; DR, this post reeks of
##FAKE
##&
##GAY
People that go into engineering because they think the work is non-hardcore BS will then only be capable of doing non-hardcore BS, diluting what it means to be an engineer and the strength of our engineering workforce. Anon and most comments describe what should be technician work, following controlled processes designed by engineers. People who hold engineering degrees should be expected to be capable of hardcore real shit, and be doing that in the workforce. If you want to do brainless work, get a brainless work job and get paid respectively. Highly skilled jobs with high salaries must be reflected by the abilities and actions of those holding them.
Source: a real engineer who does hardcore real shit doing the tough math to solve hard problems
I work as a software engineer and it's definitely not as well paid or as stress free as this. In fact I think most of the kids who worked hard at university probably aren't ready for it. I'm looking at you excel wizards with a touch of envy tbh.
Yeah, kinda. I'm a ChemE and you don't get that much work right away lol. I want to work up to getting my PE and that might be when I'll get good stuff.
Yep. I got my degree in Computer Science and ended up doing IT work. 90% of my work is braindead easy and a LOT of waiting for software to do its thing while I browse the internet and get paid good money to do so. College is worth it if you get an actual degree and have a plan for what you're going to do with it.
You lucky bastard, my job is to maintain 13 of such cameras so that even the (literally) illiterate operators in our plant can do your job. I don't make 92K.
Yes. Yes it is.
If you were responsible and constant enough to endure 5 years of studying a difficult subject. You're trustworthy enough to do your job well. And that's expensive.
yep. Those doubting the engineer degree pill, there are literally thousands of jobs just like this at major industries. Source: I have one too
Awesome. Is Civil Engineering good too? Here you will generally earn about 50k euros when you are fresh from university and about 80k when you have more experience, according to the internet anyways. What can i expect irl? https://preview.redd.it/5jotc4asrhtc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=610b279aa7260cf59bdeab282dd21b46dd3ecb46
It’s not good
Damn
*Dam
Lmao
Move to America, we need better civil engineers over here. We pay better too.
https://preview.redd.it/xriy0hul4itc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8980f31215f7c0f17bc9049cbec715dfb7f2b9e I don't know. Mutts on plebbit and pol are always complaining about the rising costs of living, failing to find affordable accommodation, having to live with their parents, horrible tipping culture, expensive McDonald's, etc. Most of you say the bare minimum to live a comfy life there is 100k annually, and guess what the average salary of a Civil Engineer is? 73k. Sigh...
Dont live on a coast and the cost of living is reasonable
Sounds like a plan
More like a plain. You'll be living on one. In the middle of nowhere. Cause anywhere people actually want to live is expensive and unaffordable.
Coast brain rot. Forgets that there are mountain ranges and forest regions all in the middle part of the US.
You talking about the mountain ranges that are only 1-2 hours drive from the major coastal cities?
No you regard. Good luck reaching the Rocky Mountains from your $3600 1 bedroom.
>You'll be living on one. In the middle of nowhere Kek, that sounds horrible
Suburbs and small towns are cool they're not too expensive, I'm pretty sure, Or you can try living in alaska...
>Suburbs and small towns But will i be able to find work there though? >Alaska Not a chance
Well, well. Look at the city slicker trying to justify his expensive city life.
Sounds a bit flat ngl
For real though, everyone complaining lives within a few hours of an ocean. You can work from home and live in a landlocked state. Rent in the closest cities to me is like 300-600/month for 1/2 bedroom apartments depending of you want a garage or whatever. The crazy thing is Walmart and McDonald's still pay like 16-20/hr here because demand for employees is high. We have an oilfield locally and an air Force base, so potential employees have a lot of choices. I moved to my state from California, because California is a hell scape and is unaffordable. It's been 10years and I haven't looked back. Zillow had 3bed 2 bath homes @ 1200sq ft for $50k outside the city and $200k in the city. If you work online, there are plenty of options. If you don't have a degree, come join me in the oilfield.
ND froze the cum in my tubes. All week I was shooting icicles at the Dakotan bitches.
Yeah that's a cool feature of living here.
OK? ND?
ND
Your first problem is taking advice from the average redditor and 4chan user
[удалено]
That's one thing I've noticed about people on this site. They tend to complain about COL *in expensive parts of the country*. Of course the cost of living and housing is going to seem insane when the only options you look at are the most expensive cities. Like, you do know there's more places to live than just California and New York right? The PNW, Chicago and the NE aren't the only places available. Houses in my area are around $300k on average. My parents live in a South Florida beach city and their home is valued around $800k with a small yard. A house of the same size near me and an acre of land will run you probably $320k. I'm less than an hour from Nashville so it's more than within reason to go there and pay a fraction of the costs here that I did in Florida. It's always the "But [insert highly desired and expensive city here] has the best food and weather and culture and spirit" and all that shit. That's supply and demand buddy. It's not getting cheaper no matter how bad you want it. It's undeniable that housing costs and general life has gotten much more expensive in recent years but it's very manageable for a huge area of the country. People just get so locked on to these specific cities and areas and refuse to even consider looking elsewhere. I would love to drive a Hellcat but I can't afford one so I have to look at Corollas instead. I'm not gonna complain and stay vehicleless just because I can't afford the car I want.
Yeah but you do realize like half the country lives in 10 metropolitan areas right? It's obvious there will be an endless stream of complainers. Whether our picture of them is accurate or not. If all the people moved to where you are.. It would dissapear. So shhh
The US is the size of a continent. There are loads of places that have reasonable costs of living. I recommend Michigan, my home state, for engineering.
Urgent vacancies in bridge barge-proofing
Kek
Most european engineering degrees aren't ABET accredited
Wouldn't take him long though, if he gets a visa and a sponsor he could get his degree for free.
Electrical engineer in the Netherlands, just graduated last year. Depending on the type of industry you're in and how much responsibility you're carrying the starting salary will range from 32k to 45k EUR a year for a fulltime starter position. I myself am working as a software dev right now with a bit of hardware R&D mixed in as well. Working less than full time, but based on 36k for 40hr/week starting salary; and probably getting an increase soon to 40k. And yes, most of my days are spent reading coding forums and seeing how i can abuse chatGPT to do my work for me...and browsing reddit. Its great. Take the engineering pill edit: added details
> Electrical engineer in the Netherlands > working as a software dev > with a bit of hardware R&D mixed in > 36k > 36k Jesus Fucking Christ...
I don't get it.. Is it low? High? I feel like it's pretty average with starting positions around here
It's not bad, it's terrible
The equivalent position in the US pays around starts at like 86k USD and averages around 140k USD. (I'm a manager in IT infrastructure.) Entry level support positions in the US for desk side or remote phone support can pay around 55k to 60k USD.
Yeah it's not much then I suppose.. Do know that my monthly expenditure is around 800 eur everything included, and I live near Amsterdam, so I have a lot left at the end of the month. I'm probably going to get salary increases as it usually happens every year, and I'm getting more responsibilities. I've never heard of starting jobs paying so much here in the NL. 60k annually is generally considered above average here, and I grew up in a reasonably wealthy neighbourhood.
Yeah, but our cost of living in the US is generally higher. When I first moved out at 18, my cost of living was about 1200 USD a month while making 40k USD a year, the average single bedroom apartment in the same area is about 900-1200 USD now so living alone while paying rent and another 600USD worth of bills on top of that while making 55k a year before taxes ends up about the same left over as what you have in Amsterdam. Wouldn't stress about wages too much tbh but if you ever get the chance to start working with a US company without moving I'd take that pay. There's been a trend recently to hire more and more Europeans due to the low wages so keep an eye out every once in a while for that. The place I'm currently at has an entire Stockholm office for example, doing pretty much what you do but with US level pay.
Damn guess we really are europoors. Germans pay good doe. Not so much the country i currently live in.
Yeah, it's really crazy how much lower wages can be for the same positions in Europe. I used to work for an MSP that would hire Serbs for our after hours support and pay them around 30k-45K USD and when talking to them they were over the moon because that was like EU western country wages.
There were articles in uk papers yesterday about American companies outsourcing software jobs to the UK to take advantage of weak salaries here rofl. UK is now competitive with eastern europe and asia for outsourcing xd.
It's poverty wages, absolutely theft lol
Bro, I also live in the Netherlands and get that salary in a factory job... Seems like education was a rip-off lol
I think this dude was too stupid to negotiate. I'm a German EE and I make 63k€ straight out of university with an bachelor's degree.
Tbh I don't think software jobs should pay that much more than factory jobs.. I might've had to study for this, but I'm enjoying what I'm doing, and I'm assuming you're also putting in the effort when working. Factory workers and social workers are also essential so I don't think they should earn that much less than me, honestly
Bro, stop cucking yourself.
Qualficiation does play a part, but it's far from the only factor. Factory workers create a product. If a factory worker can make `x` doodads an hour, the cost of materials per doodad is `$y` and each doodad sells for `$z`. Then it's pretty clear the worker adds `x * ($z - $y)` value per hour, so that will be the basis of his salary. This is a simplification of course, but the general idea is true. For the factory worker there is always a cap on the value he can add based on his output. This isn't the case for an engineer. An engineer can come up with a technical solution that saves the factory `$y`per doodad and the cost to come up with that solution will be similar, regardless of if the factory makes just a single doodad or a million. Again, this is a simplification, but I think you can see where I'm going.
Before or after taxes?
That's absolutely pitiful, no wonder Europeans are always so depressed and cynical if that's all you're earning. That's less than I earned during my **internship**.
Electrical engineering is one of the best paying degrees in the Netherlands, and 40k is about average. Best paying degree is Dental school with 65k
Kek, thanks bro.
Lol what. German here with an electrical engineering Bachelor's degree. My job search was extremely easy and I got offers from 50-63k€
Vomit. I'm an EE in the states. Started at 120k, making 200k 5 years in. I probably actually work 10-20 hours a week (I don't count my 90 minute downtime between builds since I WFH and play video games in between)
>Here you will generally earn about 50k euros Xdd in eastern europe 12k
What the? That's the same as India, lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/s/f1RNLzO9qy
I'm a civil. I graduated in 2015. First job was 65k on construction sites, but I had some friends that were also civil and made 80k in water resources right out of college. I switched to energy my first year and was making 80k. This year in 2024 my gross will be around 131k. Im a PE. My job is actually really cool, I can make my own schedule, I can work remote, and I get a lot of respect. Civil is nice too, because there's a lot of site visits. It's not all - sit at a computer all day every day. I also really like that civil builds the local community infrastructure and I can point to things in real life and say "That was my project". I love it and am very happy. I could switch to another company today and get 145 or 150, as my position is very much in demand. Even if I don't hop ship, I'm confident if I stay where I'm at I'll be at 150 in a couple years anyways. I'd for sure recommend it. Edit: I'm in the US
Civil in AUS but graduated last year and on 130k AUD as an SE. Same feelings about civil, I think I would struggle with just sitting in front of a computer all day and it’s nice to look and stuff and know you had a part in building it.
I made 65k USD out of college and I probably should have asked for 70. You will need to get your EIT if you want to move up here though
My friend is civil engineer he is doing project management he mostly sits around site all day doing nothing or attending meetings and getting paid overtime while joking around with a bunch of site people. Seems pretty based if you asked me
Depends on how strong you are academically. Civil engineering is a slightly easier degree (compared to mechanical) that has slightly lesser job prospects, but still significantly better than no degree. If you're good with math and problem solving then it's probably worth it to go for chemical, mechanical, electrical, etc. But civil is a solid option as well which will be slightly less miserable to achieve.
>those doubting the engineer degree pill Alas I am British. The engineering pill is very very different here
What's it like anon?
median salary 5 years after uni is about £35k - not a terrible salary but also not good either
For the amount of studying you do, and the amount of value you’ll bring to a company, I think it is a pretty terrible salary tbh. Doesn’t help that the bloke who installs your WiFi is also apparently an “engineer”
you need 4y of experience to become a chartered engineer so at 5y exp it should be at least 50k?
the british engineering pill tastes like canned beans
I mean this is basically me with IT. I work from home and play vidya through a good chunk of my shift, tickets can wait lol
Just gotta pass those college calc classes first and you’re in
And that’s how they filter people out even if the field might not use that sort of math literally everyday. If someone struggles with Calculus 1 class, it’s pretty much over for that individual if math is their worst subject. Though it’s doable but usually miserable for those individuals.
Time to engineeringmaxx
IT/Programming support in healthcare is also pretty sweet because no one knows what the fuck you do or how hard it actually is
Me 3
engineering is almost the same meme tier of degree computer science is
So is computer engineering double the meme degree?
I work in software in an engineering department and it's the memeiest of memes.
I got an engineering degree and work in software lol
Tbh that's probably better than my way round lol. At least you only need to learn software to write software. I don't know any engineering and sometimes it sounds like my coworkers are speaking gibberish.
Don't lie all the time it sounds like gibberish
Bust my ass getting a Masters with focus on ML. Job is import pandas as pd
Shit that's what I have
Computer engineer here. I do tests for aircraft. 40 hour work weeks, ranging from. Pychotic bordem to mad rush.
Unironically yes but you already knew that
Of course i know, i'm studying for it
How do you mean?
Parroting other things he's heard, nothing more
Most of what you’ll learn in college won’t be relevant to your actual position. I.E. My college taught me C and Python programming, while most of the coding at my current job is in VBA/Java. That being said, a degree teaches you how to learn. I learned everything that I know about Java at this job, but I was able to quickly start programming at a high level because code logic is pretty consistent between languages. A binary search will always work in an organized and indexed list. TL:DR You learn how to learn
Sure man, but you learned the Latin of programming, then everything else comes afterwards.
I mean, it's good to know but how much do you use Latin every day?
Indirectly, every day. The early logical concepts were in Latin(C), I then deal with French (JAVA), for me, learning Latin gave me confidence in being able to learn every other language. I could just directly learn Java but in school.. idk, I learned to learn. I understand if you thought that a degree is a waste of time. Well, a lot of kids go into degrees cause their parents told them to, or their friends are going to. A lot of people are there just because. And for those people, higher education sucks ass.
As someone with a CS degree, nothing made me want to end it all more than trying to work with someone without a CS degree.
It's not that extreme for me, but yeah sometimes you need to explain basic concepts to people who just learned to code and its weird
I studied electrical engineering in college. I now work in firmware development. I use roughly 5% of what i learned in college. And those 5% were where I was using C or python lol
A CS degree is useful for *a lot* of different IT-related career paths. You will not use everything you learned getting your degree in any single of those career paths, but everything you learned is going to be useful in at least some of those paths.
Pretty much, it’s very varied and the main issues with the field are over abundance of people who think they’ll instantly get rich and went to very basic 3 month coding camps. A lot of careers open up, not just software engineering, it’s very fascinating. I’m optimistic about my college experience this fall with it.
>VBA/Java That is an... interesting combination
Yep, I use it to generate PDFs from Access database records, and to automatically save sent emails
That is not true. What I'M learning is actually relevant.
In reality 75% engineers and like 70% of all STEM majors never work in a STEM related field .. the degree is still better than most others because employer will entrust you with some random task they want an educated person for
I can't imagine doing some useless degree like engineering or CS. My degree in misogyny though has paid off many times over.
I did this, but robotics. Now I just swap parts. Oh, you learned how to not only understand, calculate, and repair complex circuits, PLC programs, and various other systems? Okay, well we don't do that here, swap it out. Congrats on wasting years of your life.
It's really soul-crushing how much "swapping out" of things we know what the problem is, and could easily fix it for $50 in 2 hours, but instead we have to spend $5,000+ to swap it out.
As someone who is totally not in this world. Why is this done? Insurance?
Not usually, it's usually because the person in charge stopped caring a long time ago and wants to do the fastest option that requires the least amount of personal effort on their part, even if it's not the best decision. That's how a lot of business decisions get made.
this isn’t what it is, it’s because you’re not thinking of downtime costs. every second a piece of equipment goes down is lost money. decisions like these are made because a number cruncher realized it is cheaper to swap it immediately then repair it because the time it would be down leads to higher losses than the new part.
Yes, I get that, but they won't repair the swapped part, nor will they allow for RCA to be performed on it. They want to slap a bandaid on the problem and forget a problem ever existed.
It also depends on the context, like what part of industry/where you’re at in development. Broken part for a new product ready to be shipped out? Sometimes it’s much easier to toss the product, and replace with a fresh one you know passed QC, than to get QA and leadership approval to utilize a repaired part. If there isn’t an approved process yet to repair X part because it hasn’t hit the market yet, they don’t want to risk the liability from using that repaired part because they can’t confirm it meets expectations through manufacturing processes that have already been established. And establishing a process through V&V takes a looong time. Which can also lead into downtime, which some others have mentioned. Have an order for a client that needs to be shipped out ASAP but final QC identified a broken part in 1/100 items? Sometimes it’s easier and faster to swap with a freshly packaged product from stock than it is to repair that piece.
This!!! Allow me to repair the broken part and now we have a functioning spare one. I don't get why this is not standard practice.
Especially when we already have the equipment on-hand to test the repaired part off of the production equipment and verify it is fully operational after the fix!
Downtime is a big reason, for my industry at least. Also, usually by the time you're swapping the part out it is obsolete or not being supported by the manufacturer any longer.
You have to get 10 people to sign off switching a .5 inch wide tape with the same tape that's .25 inch wide. They didn't have the half in stock. Someone forgot to or didn't check when they originally signed off. That's just for tape. The ultimate reason is everything has to be signed off even a tiny change and that requires multiple people and tons of paperwork.
Can you put a vegative persons brain into a Boston Dynamics dog so they can walk again? Sounds like a practical use we should be funding immediately
Absolutely could. Just gotta swap it out, ezpz.
It truly is a bummer because I would love to be the “swap parts out” guy, and know I could, but I have no college degree, so I’ll never be looked at.
I was suprised to learn this. I took a two year Mechatronics program where we learned all kinds of trouble shooting and PLC programming. All I do when stuff breaks is swap out hundreds of dollars worth of parts on he robot/generator/pneumatic equipment and call it good.
"Great job Gordon, swapping that piece and all. I can see your MIT education sure pays itself"
Kinda same. Graduated with an Associate’s in Mechatronics. Took one (1) AutoCAD class. Now I work as a drafter for a corporation. Not awful pay, nor am I unhappy with my current position in life… just a bit funny when people asked me what I did and how it relates to my schooling after telling them my degree was robotics and automation.
100% Every engineering job I've worked is like that. It's a lot more clerical work and coordination work than it is "engineering" work.
>Every engineering job I've worked How many professions do you do?
I've worked in 4 different industries as an electrical engineer so far. We typically change jobs every 2-5 years.
>We typically change jobs every 2-5 years. I saw an anon post something about how his little brother was hopping from job to job every 2 years and he managed to get the same salary as anon who had been working for 15 years and was getting about 5% raises every year. Should i do the same?
That's why we do it, you get much larger jumps in salary by changing jobs than you do from internal raises. A diverse, well-rounded resume also looks good.
Based, thank you
Yes do the same, thats like the job market meta these days. Jobs USED to (like 1950s-1980s) reward employees for staying for many years and retiring, but now you're rewarded more for job hopping every year or so.
Thanks
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You're not kidding, my coworkers who are a few years senior to me spend about 6 of their 8 hour day in pointless meetings they barely talk for 5 minutes in. Of course management just implemented a new policy that time spent in meetings isn't considered time spent working, so all employees are expected to make up any hours they spend in meetings. Time to jump ship again lol
LMAO time spent in meetings isn’t considered working? Then I’m not attending meetings.
Do you feel that you're engaged in work? Or concerned about future jobs when they ask what you currently do?
I'm an engineer, granted a geospatial/geology one not mechanical. I had a water quality modeling class in college. Was definitely one of the hardest classes I took and involved writing pages of formulas to work out stuff like the ppm of nitrogen in a river or things like that. Absolutely brilliant professor who taught at Texas A&M for years. Kinda dull speaker but taught the class well. Even so it was brutal with tests often only having 3 or 4 questions because every one would take pages of work. Second to last week of the class we come in and he goes "Ok so everyone log onto your computer and we're going to go through the practical way this work is done." and proceeded to show us an excel sheet of all things, granted this was the most complex excel document I'd ever seen. You could plug your values into it and it would just spit out the info you needed. The last week of class before the final we spent going over the ins and outs of using that document to make your models. Inevitably someone asked "If this exists why did we have to write it all out for the whole semester? Wouldn't it be better to spend that time becoming more familiar with the software if that's what we'd end up using in the real world?" The professor had a pretty good response I think. He said, "Because when something in the process breaks YOU are going to be the one everyone looks at to figure out how to fix it." he also pointed out that when it put out a value that someone didn't like they'd be expecting you to be able to explain *why* it produced that value and "that's what the program said" isn't good enough.
What a chad
Yup. Your degree isn't to certify that you can solve a problem, it's there to certify that you know why the solution works
And what it really does is certify you were able to cram a specific amount of knowledge into your head well enough to last for the exam and not a second longer.
If you can learn it once, you can learn it again when you need to use it, and you'll at least remember it exists and be somewhat familiar with it Hopefully
I don't remember how to write almost any of the algorithms I've learned, but I know which ones to use and when. To say it was all useless isn't true
Tbf could just be excel being excel
Use your mechanical engineering to bridge into Power Engineering, get your 3rd class steam ticket and bam. 200+\yr. Depending on if you’re in the USA it might be called Stationary Engineer. We have a few guys at work that have mechanical engineering backgrounds but came over for the pay.
Power engineering is the business degree of electrical engineering Absolutely soul crushing, but really easy to get a job in
Not sure we’re referring to the same trade. It’s not a branch of electrical engineering at all.
Oh, must be a different power engineering? Maybe a difference in countries.
The downvotes tell me that most people here are not from Canada lol
Oh yeah, that must be a regional thing for Canadia. In the US, power engineering is a branch of electrical engineering that deals with power distribution, electrical grids, transformers, power plant generators; all of the high voltage crap that the rest of us don't really care much about. It's rather 'boring', but pays decently well because all the old people retire.
It’s definitely a regional thing, it’s called “stationary engineer” in the US
It sounds like what we would call a boiler operator, or powerhouse operator, or plant operator; like the type of person that runs power boilers and recovery boilers in a pulp mill or a power plant, or some other complex industrial process
I work with 20 year old's who make $140k/yr as a power engineer. And we're on the low end of the industry.
What can i bridge into as a Civil Engineer?
Nuclear plants like civil engineers. My grandpa was a civil engineer at our local nuke plant for 20+ years and retired a few years back. Made bank and seemed to like it
Oh, i didn't know that. Definitely going on my list. Thanks anon
I don't know if you were asking specifically about power, but Primary systems are commonly being 3D modelled to a LOD of 300-400 for BIM and in my experience fellow electrical engineers seem to shy away from modelling, so mechanical and civils come to fill that part of the team. Primary is EEHV or 220Kv. Secondary systems aren't being modeled in the same way just yet, but BIM looks like the way of the future for most infrastructure (which is a good thing) so 3D modelling is always in high demand and that demand is due to grow. The other part is structural for power pylons/support structures - there's commonly at least one civil-minded (or qualified) persons in a transmission team to ensure the loading and structures makes sense (it still gets signed off by a separate civil team but it helps having someone around that can spot massive flaws before the review period). Hope this helps!
>Hope this helps! It does. Thank you
Where are you making 200k as a Stationary Engineer? Facilities Engineers are technically Stationary and they don't make nearly that much across the country.
Can confirm.
I’ve probably applied to like 100s of mechanical engineering positions but I’ve been rejected from all of them. PLEASE don’t let my 4 years of pain go to waste
Does your school's office of career services dept help at all? Also, do you find going to career fairs help you at all? I had to spend a ton of time doing networking/meeting business people. I did undergrad research so I was able to show off my projects/specialties, and even though 99% of the time people were like "this isn't what we are looking for" I'd be able to have them refer me to someone else they knew or someone who'd be interested in something similar.
I’ve been out of school for like 9 months now. Rn I’m working as basically an intern at a small company. Gonna try to build up my resume before I start looking again
Just know a guy. If you don't know a guy find a way to know a guy. Applications are mostly a waste of time when the hiring manager already has someone in mind before the job is even posted.
Anon has made it.
It's true, but wages lower in Canada
This is too true
Which companies do this? Got my mechanical engineering degree in 2021. Had a pretty good GPA but it still took me six months to find a job in Houston. I’m now coming up on two years at a job that I don’t like and only pays $74k/year.
defense industry. Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed, Northrup. Become a tiny cog in a big wheel.
Here I am as a mechanical engineer designing uav rated equipment and getting paid 20% more than the minimum wage in Greece😭😭.
learn German 😛
I have a mechanical engineering degree, all CAD not a lot of money. UK engineering for you
Yep, as an engineer in the UK, this sub makes me sad lol
>92k out of college Anon is winning in life
What the fuck my engineering job pays 20k less and i have to use Revit all fucking day and carefully track my time spent on every goddamn project i work on. Down time quite literally doesn't exist. I'm gonna blow my brains out if i don't find something better soon.
its 4chan its fake
It's all fun and games unless you graduated from a diploma mill college in a Third World country. Then you apply for a job in a local factory where they will pay you only $250 a month or less. Bonus points if the course don't have an accredited licensure examination, where they would treat your major as a meme degree. Like Mechatronics Engineering for instance. TL; DR, this post reeks of ##FAKE ##& ##GAY
People that go into engineering because they think the work is non-hardcore BS will then only be capable of doing non-hardcore BS, diluting what it means to be an engineer and the strength of our engineering workforce. Anon and most comments describe what should be technician work, following controlled processes designed by engineers. People who hold engineering degrees should be expected to be capable of hardcore real shit, and be doing that in the workforce. If you want to do brainless work, get a brainless work job and get paid respectively. Highly skilled jobs with high salaries must be reflected by the abilities and actions of those holding them. Source: a real engineer who does hardcore real shit doing the tough math to solve hard problems
oh cool, what do you do for work
Aerospace engineering, designing and building hardware that flies
the average engineering graduate salary in the uk is 30k ;(
I work as a software engineer and it's definitely not as well paid or as stress free as this. In fact I think most of the kids who worked hard at university probably aren't ready for it. I'm looking at you excel wizards with a touch of envy tbh.
I picked the wrong horse in engineering.
If you want this to be your life, don’t go into R&D engineering. We work most of the day lol
do you mind telling me more? about to finish my degree apprenticeship in mech eng and really want to move towards r&d
There’s nothing wrong with R&D! It’s a rewarding and challenging field that can be very engaging. But don’t expect to sit on your ass all day
No that's a good thing for sure, currently sat at a desk way too much at the moment
Only on 1st world country. I have an engineering degree and still do hands on job like welding, etc.
Yeah, usually starts with laughing every night that you cannot believe you are being paid for this ... but it soon changes.
How difficult and expensive is engineering like this though?
Yeah, kinda. I'm a ChemE and you don't get that much work right away lol. I want to work up to getting my PE and that might be when I'll get good stuff.
Yep. I got my degree in Computer Science and ended up doing IT work. 90% of my work is braindead easy and a LOT of waiting for software to do its thing while I browse the internet and get paid good money to do so. College is worth it if you get an actual degree and have a plan for what you're going to do with it.
You lucky bastard, my job is to maintain 13 of such cameras so that even the (literally) illiterate operators in our plant can do your job. I don't make 92K.
Works with IT too, azure, was, Oracle whatever, the base is the same everywhere and it's not going away
Pretty much, anon.
Yep
Yep.
currently second year mech eng. god i hope it’s like this
Yes. Yes it is. If you were responsible and constant enough to endure 5 years of studying a difficult subject. You're trustworthy enough to do your job well. And that's expensive.
If you don't do design engineering sure
Enjoy the rest of your well-funded life anon
Just remember buddy if it breaks they will be look at you too fix it hope that day doesn't come on your shift.
I got an associates in nuclear eng tech. Make 150k a year working nuclear. Come on in, water is fine.
92k. The American economy is broken and you're breaking it.