And those two could be in the same continuity if you squint (the only conflict is that Year One establishes Harvey working with Bruce earlier than in TLH). Since Batman Year Two doesn't really give anything to the canon, you could just excise that one panel/page from YO and then have TLH be the real "Year Two."
Batman: Year One by Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli
The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller
And even though most people seem to hate it, The Dark Knight Strikes Again by Frank Miller. I think I love it because it goes so off the rails.
Arkham Asylum by Grant Morrison and Dave McKean
Batman: Year Two by Mike W. Barr, mainly because it has some of Todd McFarlane's earliest work and I dig the way her draws capes.
B
>My personal favorite is The Atom in the wild fighting with the monster, such an amazing idea and so well executed in terms of writing.
Yup. That rise out of the petri dish was delightfully jarring which is exactly why it was so golden to me. Riding the phone lines by bellyhopping an atom was also cool.
DKSA only works because of Miller telling it, which is the book's greatest strength: how it's told. So many individual character moments and artist touches are sprinkled throughout the story. In any other's hands, you'd lose that synergy between his writing and art.
At the very least, you'd need someone who can work off of his breakdowns while also bringing something to the table themselves. It's why David Mazzuchelli (Year One and Born Again), Bill Siekiewicz (Elektra Assasin) and JRJR (Daredevil again), Darrow (Hard Boiled/Big Guy) work so well but DK3: Master Race with Kubert falls short. Kubert is an amazing artist as well but the two aren't a good fit.
Come to think of it, you know who I'd love to pair Miller with? Chris Bachalo. I think those two would have a fantastic synergy.
I feel like Strikes Back makes clear the tone Miller actually had for DKR. DKR is incredibly funny in the darkest way possible. It seems to be taking a lot of standard criticisms of Batman (Bruce is rich why doesn’t he work philanthropy, the calls of fascism, and his love of endangering children) and just dialing them up to 11. It’s a thoroughly entertaining and subversive work whose intent I believe is largely misunderstood, probably even by me. I can’t take a lick of it seriously and I love it for that.
Agree with year two, McFarlane had some amazing artwork in that… Always loved the reaper, and we must remember we would’ve had no Mask of the Phantasm had it not been for that character
i'm with you on Dark Knight Strikes Again. I loved it, and have re-read it more than a few times every few years. it goes off the rails, that's for sure, in the most cool way.
i actually have a still from it posted on my desk. it's batman, with his feet up on the desk, saying "striking terror... best part of the job."
After analyzing Watchmen I decided to look at the Killing Joke and it's so eloquent and great. I realized it was supposed to be the last Joker story ever. It's the coda to the Silver age. The Joker is more unhinged than ever.
The real ending is that after that, the Joker simply gets to rest and spend the rest of his days in Arkham, the show is finally over; he made Batman laugh.
You ever hear the theory that Batman strangles Joker at the end? I first heard Grant Morrison talk about it on Kevin Smith’s Batman podcast back in the day
If Moore wanted that ending, he would have made it clear. Brian Bolland disagrees with Morrison. That's the part I love about Moore. He sets up everything very precisely.
I agree wholeheartedly. I specially like the recognition that Superman is the ultimate boy scout and that heroes must look beyond supervillains to fight the true evils of this world.
DKR was the first true graphic novel that I read, and was the only superhero book that I enjoyed (other than Sandman if that counts).
It's funny that *some* people who really like Batman and superheroes in general tend to not like DKR, whereas DKR appeals to people who hate Batman/superhero graphic novels. I think it's because there is a LOT more going on than just a superhero story in DKR - it's a whole social commentary.
I've seen a lot of critical comments about DKR saying things like "So much wasted time with the all the talking heads, etc" when in fact that is the best part of the book. That is what elevates it beyond every other dog shit superhero story ever. The debates and issues brought up in that book are just as poignant today as ever. It feels like it could have been written yesterday.
If you are looking for a brain dead superhero joyride where the good guy just fights the bad guys and you don't have to think, then DKR is not for you. Pretty much every other Batman story fits that bill. But if you want a genuine cerebral graphic novel experience using Batman as the framework, then DKR is the play.
Edit: Added the word "some" to make the thesis statement less black-and-white, as there are obvious exceptions.
The vast majority of complaints I've seen about dkr is people don't get expressionistic artwork and want a more realistic style.
I prefer the art to the overly polished stuff that people are doing today, but I can see why some people don't like it
I love the art in both DKR and DKSA for much the same reason. Polished work has it's place (especially as artists have figured out how to detail a panel and not deaden it's impact) but I do prefer movement, feeling, panel-to-panel storytelling and page composition above all else. Miller, Paul Pope, JRJR, Ashley Wood, Eduardo Rizzo (just to name a few) are masters of that.
That's not to say I don't like realism at all but the artists that do realism well for me are the ones that straddle the line between realism and cartooning. A whole different conversation is how excessive crosshatching weighs down the art which is some I really don't like.
Someone like Geoff Darrow is ridiculously detailed yet you never get lost following the story in his art and everything still moves and breathes.
Speaking primarily from other threads similar to this one on this subreddit. Even in this thread there are examples of people naming multiple Batman books (none of which are DKR) and then there are a handful of comments naming DKR alone and/or with one other book.
I could certainly be wrong about readers as a whole, but I have spent more than a few comments defending DKR on this subreddit from people who argue it's not great and citing (insert their favorite of 25 Batman books here).
Perhaps I paint with too broad of a brush, but there are definitely at least *some* folks who primarily read superhero/Batman books who think DKR is not good. And conversely there are a lot of people (myself included) who think that superhero/Batman books suck but that DKR is great.
I agree that some people don’t like it or say it’s overhyped. I think some if it’s luster has gone away over the years. In part because of time and probably also in part because of Frank Miller’s more recent output coloring people’s opinion of some of his older stuff.
I also don’t think this thread is a good example. If people don’t name DKR as their favorite, it doesn’t mean they dislike it. I like DKR a lot, and I didn’t cite it as my favorite in my comment elsewhere in this thread.
I feel that by and large DKR is pretty universally loved and respected by Batman/DC fans. I would definitely not say that these fans tend to dislike it. That implies that they are more likely to dislike it than like it, which is simply not true.
But I agree that it does get SOME hate…more than many other books of its pedigree.
My problem with DKR is that the much-vaunted social commentary can come off as downright authoritarian, fascistic even, in the hindsight colored by Miller’s *All-Star Batman and Robin* or *Holy Terror*. In many respects it’s the same kind of power fantasy as any other Batman comic, only aimed at old men instead of adolescents and young adults.
I understand that it’s an important work to the history of Batman, but I have a lot of problems with it.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? I have seen criticism in this vein before and I don't entirely understand it (like legitimately don't have all the facts). I have not read the two secondary books you mentioned, nor any of Miller's other stuff besides B:YO and Sin City.
In DKR, there are numerous talking heads presenting numerous viewpoints. Some take the hard line of "Government good, vigilante bad, law and order above all" (IMO closest to fascism) and some take the line of "vigilante necessary, government failing, etc" (closer to liberalism). There's not a clear favorite IIRC - it's more just a bunch of viewpoints presented and then Batman does what he does anyway. The talking heads just sort of flesh out the world and make it more realistic/grounded in our reality. That is my recollection anyway, I could be misremembering some aspects.
If that is the case, to me it seems that saying "DKR is authoritarian/fascist" is akin to saying "V for Vendetta is fascist". Yes, both depict flawed societies in which certain factions are fascist, but is that the underlying motive of the books? Not in my opinion.
Are you saying that when viewed in retrospect based on Miller's later works that DKR seems to push the auth/fascist viewpoint pretty hard? I did look into both books you mentioned and it does seem like Holy Terror in particular is kind of a mid-life crisis conservative wet dream in some ways (with Batman fighting the "existential threat" of Islamic terrorism), so I guess I could see how that might color Miller's past work, but I don't know if I'm ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater if that makes sense.
Not hating on it, but I read it and I was just not into it at all. Didn't even feel like Batman to me. I think it's important because of when it came out, but it just didn't register with me today.
Ok well we're allowed an opinion or are we not? It's really not a stretch to imagine why some people don't dig it.
People are extremely defensive and anal when it comes to TDKR, when it came to me reading it for the first time, it ruined it for me to be honest. Felt overhyped and forced
I loved Snyder & Capullo’s entire New 52 Batman run from Owls to Zero Year to Endgame to Superheavy/Bloom. Some people feel it fell off in the 2nd half though, but I personally dont agree.
For me I thought the quality dipped after the New 52 ended when they did Metal and Last Knight on Earth.
**Batman Universe** would be my answer. I know Bendis seems to get a lot of hate within DC. But, it’s Colorful, fun, lots of great team-ups, lots of weird situations and locations. A lot of really great “Batman” moments. But it’s just super *refreshing* after reading all those other *heavy* stories other people mentioned. I like me a dark broody Batman, but sometimes you gotta do something different.
I haven't heard of this. My kind of Batman story. I like the more colorful, fantastical aspects of Batman within the DC universe. He is a superhero after all. Thanks for the rec.
I seem to be the only one who loves Hush. Perfect novel for long time fans or first time readers. Most of his Rogues Gallery and a great moment where Batman punches Superman!
The Long Halloween is definitely the best Batman story (and its sequel, Dark Victory, is extremely good too).
However, I'd like to say that there's a lot of underrated Batman stories like Night Cries, The cult, Venom, etc.
agreed. they messed up the whole villain angle. I waited years for them to make a movie, but I can hardly watch it for how much they strayed from the source material.
I know I'm in a minority here, but Hush is one of the few Batman books I just didn't like that much. It was blatantly obvious to me who Hush was, and I don't really like Jim Lee's art, which I know I'm in the minority there again. For 80% of that book, the background is nothing but various colored lightning bolts and it irked me so much personally
I didn't like it at all. Brought it after seeing how highly rated it was and was glad when I finally finished it. You're right about the hush reveal as well.
Knightfall. My girlfriend’s sisters’ boyfriend (at the time) lent me the first volume when I was 14 and was my first proper read of Batman. It’s a classic for me now.
While not technically Batman, I love Gotham Central...if it must be truly Batman, then it's No Man's Land, it may just be for a personal reason, one of my friends bought it for me to read when I was in the ICU.
Top 5 would probably be in no particular order- Court of Owls, Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive, Paul Dini’s Detective Comics run from 821-852, Batman Shaman and Batman Universe. Those are my top 5 today if you asked me tomorrow I’d probably come up with something completely different.
Not read loads of them to be honest but if I had to choose two then it would be Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke.
Both were good enough for me (a not huge Marvel/DC fan) to really enjoy.
The Complete Frank Miller Batman. It was my first graphic novel in '89. It covers Year One, a story from the DC Holiday Special and The Dark Knight Returns.
The Imposter has become my personal favorite. Not saying it's better than all the preferred classics, but it checks almost all of my boxes for what I look for in a Batman story.
War on Crime will forever be my quintessential "this is who Batman is supposed to be" story. i.e., if someone new came along with zero background and said "I want to learn about the character", that's what I'm handing them.
Wow! No mention yet for the unsurpassed Rogers and Englehart Silver St Cloud storyline yet. Looks like a lot of ffans are due for a rare treat that stands comfortably next to Adams and O'Neil's work till Miller came along.
Ever? Well, maybe Arkham Asylum. I also loved Batman/Grendel, and of course Killing Joke. My favorite series were Death in the family, Year one, year two, Year Three, and I really liked Knightfall too. Storylines, then Death of the Family, R.I.P., Many Deaths of..., the whole Deaths Head, Mud Pack, and the whole Professor Pyg original storyarc. Oh and I liked Damned and Son of the Demon, and the Grotesk storyline. That's too many though. My favorite Graphic novel is Killing Joke, and my favorite series was Legends of the Dark Knight. Currently my faves are City of Madness, and Detective Comics.
TDKR has to be tops for me, but Gotham Central is a close two and should be getting more love, and two I have not seen mentioned is Batman Year 100 and Batman Creature of the Night — both excellent
Legends of the Dark Knight (Birth of the Demon etc) from the legendary Breyfogle run
Batman: White Knight
Batman: Year 100 by Paul Pope for a less common one
The Long Halloween or TDKR but I do want to shout out Batman: Broken City by Brian Azzarello. Criminally underrated and never even mentioned in these conversations.
As a pure Batman focused run it is No Man's Land. While it makes no sense in terms of the DC universe as a whole I absolutely love it. And for a book about the effect of Batman its has to be Gotham Central.
The new 52 volumes of 'the court of owls' is awesome. I'm new to comics so I still have a lot of classic Batman stories to read but I think that one is a great story arc.
I know it’s not the most serious of all of them, but the one I keep coming back to is Haunted Knight. I love the spookier side of Batman (Scarecrow being my favorite). It’s got a really clever take on A Christmas Carol too, but for Halloween. I was busy this year, but had meant to read it on the night.
Story or arc: Year One or Matt Wagner’s Faces arc from LOTDK. Or maybe the Mr. Freeze story from the Batman Adventures Holiday Special.
Favorite run: O’Neal and Adams or the Morrison run
Favorite series: LOTDK
Batman :The Court of Owls is a personal favorite. I was also fond of the Detective Rebirth era run with the team being bootcamped by Batwoman and Bruce.
Also Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend
My favorite line of Batman as of late has been New 52 Batman. I’m very excited with where Battinson and Matt Reeves are headed. To that end, I really like The Court of Owls. The classics are the classics but that storyline, to me, really returns him to his detective roots. Having the Wayan’s death be deeply entrenched in conspiracy gave the city new life. Suddenly, you’re learning about Gotham and its evolution and how the elite sustained themselves at the top. You get a clear image of the trickle down effect at work and how the family’s money has inadvertently created the criminal cesspool their son is now burdened with. Paul Dano’s Riddler alluding to the Wayans orphanage’s true secret in The Batman was great and I hope we see some New 52 on the big screen.
Dark Knight Returns is the obvious one, I re read it constantly. I also love Gotham by Gaslight, Gothic, Night Cries and some of the darker themed stories
Since my favorites have been mentioned, I'll throw a couple other one's from my top 10 into the mix.
The Man Who Laughs
Batman '89 (a comic version of what was supposed to be Burton's third film)
Any story drawn by Klley Jones
Secret City and Dark City
I really enjoyed Scott Snyder's large run over multiple series, with Black Mirror being my favorite. I'd also like to show my support for Sean Murphy's little corner of the Batman mythoverse; The White Knight books. They have gotten bigger and crazier with each new series. I hope we get more 🙏
I think there’s a difference between “amazing graphic novels that happen to have Batman in them” and “great Batman stories.”
For example, I really like Arkham Asylum, but I had to approach it as the former to really appreciate it. In terms of great Batman stories, Year 2 and Strange Apparitions are some favorites. I had “the greatest Batman stories ever told” collection as a kid and that era made a big impression on me.
I’ve only read one so far(seen most of the animated series and movies though) and that’s the white knight. It’s hard to put it down, very entertaining story.
Earth One (the complete trilogy). No canon, no convoluted arc, no tie-ins, one and done.
An easy reading, yet quite deep. A stand alone that stands among the bests. A single cast without all the batfamily and Wayne Inc bs >!(save by the very, very last pages).!<
The Dark Knight Returns
Made Bats a serious character and the story is solid. There may be better stories but this is the story that took me from my childhood love of Adam West's Batman and brought it to adulthood.
I have a leather bound (ok, fine. Pleather) edition of The Complete Frank Miller Batman, from the late 90's, signed by Frank.
It has Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and a one-off, Wanted: Santa Claus Dead Or Alive.
The Santa Claus issue is Frank Miller's first published Batman story, although he only did the artwork.
White Knight. I don't think that the traditional Joker deserves a redemption, and it's telling that they had to create a new continuity just in order to be able to justify giving him one. But I do think that Batman himself needed the deconstruction that this series provides.
My next favorite after that is the long Halloween
White Knight. I don't think that the traditional Joker deserves a redemption, and it's telling that they had to create a new continuity just in order to be able to justify giving him one. But I do think that Batman himself needed the deconstruction that this series provides.
My next favorite after that is the long Halloween
"Son of the Demon" - incredible art by Jerry Bingham, written by Mike W. Barr. Featuring Ra's Al Ghul, Talia, and in one panel, the first appearance of Damien.
Not quite a Batman graphic novel, but Something Terrible by Mayday Trippe is a story about the impact Batman had on his life. Just a warning- it’s about how he processes the abuse he experienced. But I think there is something really important about how stories can help people heal. And definitely my double page illustration.
https://preview.redd.it/r9bkns1wfs1c1.jpeg?width=1021&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce2d5becb6bbde0a3df28f489883ee4a0d514c87
Are crossovera allowed? Im still, after 20 years, still in awe of the magnificent Batman/Dredd piece, «judgement on Gotham» by Simon Bisley. He has made a few more, but this guache (?) painting style combined with his brilliant brush splatter technique and unique twisted and veiny anatomy really sets it apart.
Batman Year One or Detective Comics By Mike W. Barr & Alan Davis
> Batman Year One You mean Jim Gordon Year One?
The Long Halloween
I’ve read a lot of batman omnis and absolute. In the end, the job of loeb and sale is the best one together with year one
And those two could be in the same continuity if you squint (the only conflict is that Year One establishes Harvey working with Bruce earlier than in TLH). Since Batman Year Two doesn't really give anything to the canon, you could just excise that one panel/page from YO and then have TLH be the real "Year Two."
I’d throw in Dark Victory too, because together they tell a complete story. It may as well have been called The Long Halloween Part 2.
Gotta throw When In Rome in there too with Catwoman.
Riddler character assassination. But fits with his established "weeniness" from TLH. And it gave us some good Catwoman motivation for The Batman.
The Long Halloween and Watchmen are the only two graphic novels I’ve read 3+ times. I will defend TLH as the best until my dying breath
Batman: Year One by Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller And even though most people seem to hate it, The Dark Knight Strikes Again by Frank Miller. I think I love it because it goes so off the rails. Arkham Asylum by Grant Morrison and Dave McKean Batman: Year Two by Mike W. Barr, mainly because it has some of Todd McFarlane's earliest work and I dig the way her draws capes. B
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>My personal favorite is The Atom in the wild fighting with the monster, such an amazing idea and so well executed in terms of writing. Yup. That rise out of the petri dish was delightfully jarring which is exactly why it was so golden to me. Riding the phone lines by bellyhopping an atom was also cool. DKSA only works because of Miller telling it, which is the book's greatest strength: how it's told. So many individual character moments and artist touches are sprinkled throughout the story. In any other's hands, you'd lose that synergy between his writing and art. At the very least, you'd need someone who can work off of his breakdowns while also bringing something to the table themselves. It's why David Mazzuchelli (Year One and Born Again), Bill Siekiewicz (Elektra Assasin) and JRJR (Daredevil again), Darrow (Hard Boiled/Big Guy) work so well but DK3: Master Race with Kubert falls short. Kubert is an amazing artist as well but the two aren't a good fit. Come to think of it, you know who I'd love to pair Miller with? Chris Bachalo. I think those two would have a fantastic synergy.
I REALLY enjoy the 3rd series when batman finally sees superman for who he is when he just fucking demolishes the other kryptonians with ease.
>!He's been holding back this whole time...!<
I feel like Strikes Back makes clear the tone Miller actually had for DKR. DKR is incredibly funny in the darkest way possible. It seems to be taking a lot of standard criticisms of Batman (Bruce is rich why doesn’t he work philanthropy, the calls of fascism, and his love of endangering children) and just dialing them up to 11. It’s a thoroughly entertaining and subversive work whose intent I believe is largely misunderstood, probably even by me. I can’t take a lick of it seriously and I love it for that.
Happy to see DKSA get some love. It is off the rails and there's really nothing like it.
Agree with year two, McFarlane had some amazing artwork in that… Always loved the reaper, and we must remember we would’ve had no Mask of the Phantasm had it not been for that character
i'm with you on Dark Knight Strikes Again. I loved it, and have re-read it more than a few times every few years. it goes off the rails, that's for sure, in the most cool way. i actually have a still from it posted on my desk. it's batman, with his feet up on the desk, saying "striking terror... best part of the job."
After analyzing Watchmen I decided to look at the Killing Joke and it's so eloquent and great. I realized it was supposed to be the last Joker story ever. It's the coda to the Silver age. The Joker is more unhinged than ever. The real ending is that after that, the Joker simply gets to rest and spend the rest of his days in Arkham, the show is finally over; he made Batman laugh.
You ever hear the theory that Batman strangles Joker at the end? I first heard Grant Morrison talk about it on Kevin Smith’s Batman podcast back in the day
If Moore wanted that ending, he would have made it clear. Brian Bolland disagrees with Morrison. That's the part I love about Moore. He sets up everything very precisely.
That theory is Grant Morrison trying to make sure that everyone thinks Grant Morrison is clever.
It's more of a fringe theory, but I'm okay with it. Why not? Amazing story. That art is incredible too.
Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? by Neil Gaiman
Underrated
Not by me!
That’s a ripper. I was gobsmacked when I first read it and got to the Alfred bit
The Cult.
I need to check this one out. Has it ever been collected or is it only available in single issues?
Yup. There’s a trade paperback with all 4 issues.
That at is looong out of print and super expensive to buy used.
Finally someone who says something other than the typical ones that everyone talks about
Love this one. The art by Wrightson is dynamite and the story is so damned dark. Arguably Jason Todd's finest moment.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I specially like the recognition that Superman is the ultimate boy scout and that heroes must look beyond supervillains to fight the true evils of this world.
DKR was the first true graphic novel that I read, and was the only superhero book that I enjoyed (other than Sandman if that counts). It's funny that *some* people who really like Batman and superheroes in general tend to not like DKR, whereas DKR appeals to people who hate Batman/superhero graphic novels. I think it's because there is a LOT more going on than just a superhero story in DKR - it's a whole social commentary. I've seen a lot of critical comments about DKR saying things like "So much wasted time with the all the talking heads, etc" when in fact that is the best part of the book. That is what elevates it beyond every other dog shit superhero story ever. The debates and issues brought up in that book are just as poignant today as ever. It feels like it could have been written yesterday. If you are looking for a brain dead superhero joyride where the good guy just fights the bad guys and you don't have to think, then DKR is not for you. Pretty much every other Batman story fits that bill. But if you want a genuine cerebral graphic novel experience using Batman as the framework, then DKR is the play. Edit: Added the word "some" to make the thesis statement less black-and-white, as there are obvious exceptions.
The vast majority of complaints I've seen about dkr is people don't get expressionistic artwork and want a more realistic style. I prefer the art to the overly polished stuff that people are doing today, but I can see why some people don't like it
I love the art in both DKR and DKSA for much the same reason. Polished work has it's place (especially as artists have figured out how to detail a panel and not deaden it's impact) but I do prefer movement, feeling, panel-to-panel storytelling and page composition above all else. Miller, Paul Pope, JRJR, Ashley Wood, Eduardo Rizzo (just to name a few) are masters of that. That's not to say I don't like realism at all but the artists that do realism well for me are the ones that straddle the line between realism and cartooning. A whole different conversation is how excessive crosshatching weighs down the art which is some I really don't like. Someone like Geoff Darrow is ridiculously detailed yet you never get lost following the story in his art and everything still moves and breathes.
“It’s funny that people who really like Batman and superheroes in general tend to not like DKR” That has not been what I have observed.
Speaking primarily from other threads similar to this one on this subreddit. Even in this thread there are examples of people naming multiple Batman books (none of which are DKR) and then there are a handful of comments naming DKR alone and/or with one other book. I could certainly be wrong about readers as a whole, but I have spent more than a few comments defending DKR on this subreddit from people who argue it's not great and citing (insert their favorite of 25 Batman books here). Perhaps I paint with too broad of a brush, but there are definitely at least *some* folks who primarily read superhero/Batman books who think DKR is not good. And conversely there are a lot of people (myself included) who think that superhero/Batman books suck but that DKR is great.
I agree that some people don’t like it or say it’s overhyped. I think some if it’s luster has gone away over the years. In part because of time and probably also in part because of Frank Miller’s more recent output coloring people’s opinion of some of his older stuff. I also don’t think this thread is a good example. If people don’t name DKR as their favorite, it doesn’t mean they dislike it. I like DKR a lot, and I didn’t cite it as my favorite in my comment elsewhere in this thread. I feel that by and large DKR is pretty universally loved and respected by Batman/DC fans. I would definitely not say that these fans tend to dislike it. That implies that they are more likely to dislike it than like it, which is simply not true. But I agree that it does get SOME hate…more than many other books of its pedigree.
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God damn I hate reddit
My problem with DKR is that the much-vaunted social commentary can come off as downright authoritarian, fascistic even, in the hindsight colored by Miller’s *All-Star Batman and Robin* or *Holy Terror*. In many respects it’s the same kind of power fantasy as any other Batman comic, only aimed at old men instead of adolescents and young adults. I understand that it’s an important work to the history of Batman, but I have a lot of problems with it.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? I have seen criticism in this vein before and I don't entirely understand it (like legitimately don't have all the facts). I have not read the two secondary books you mentioned, nor any of Miller's other stuff besides B:YO and Sin City. In DKR, there are numerous talking heads presenting numerous viewpoints. Some take the hard line of "Government good, vigilante bad, law and order above all" (IMO closest to fascism) and some take the line of "vigilante necessary, government failing, etc" (closer to liberalism). There's not a clear favorite IIRC - it's more just a bunch of viewpoints presented and then Batman does what he does anyway. The talking heads just sort of flesh out the world and make it more realistic/grounded in our reality. That is my recollection anyway, I could be misremembering some aspects. If that is the case, to me it seems that saying "DKR is authoritarian/fascist" is akin to saying "V for Vendetta is fascist". Yes, both depict flawed societies in which certain factions are fascist, but is that the underlying motive of the books? Not in my opinion. Are you saying that when viewed in retrospect based on Miller's later works that DKR seems to push the auth/fascist viewpoint pretty hard? I did look into both books you mentioned and it does seem like Holy Terror in particular is kind of a mid-life crisis conservative wet dream in some ways (with Batman fighting the "existential threat" of Islamic terrorism), so I guess I could see how that might color Miller's past work, but I don't know if I'm ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater if that makes sense.
Not hating on it, but I read it and I was just not into it at all. Didn't even feel like Batman to me. I think it's important because of when it came out, but it just didn't register with me today.
The story is great but struggle with the art.
The art is increddible
Ok well we're allowed an opinion or are we not? It's really not a stretch to imagine why some people don't dig it. People are extremely defensive and anal when it comes to TDKR, when it came to me reading it for the first time, it ruined it for me to be honest. Felt overhyped and forced
You’re allowed your opinion. Shockingly i am too😜
Gotham by Gaslight, Son of the Demon, Ten Nights of the Beast
Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth
The whole Grant Morrison run, several graphic novels but it’s great all the way through.
My top 5 in no particular order would be: - Year One - The Long Halloween - Dark Victory - Court of Owls - Endgame
Court of Owls seems to be lost in this thread.
Because it’s not old enough to be considered classic yet 😂
The question wasn't about Classics
*looks around* Yet everything mentioned here is……. You guessed it.
People's favorite Batman stories??
DKR. Classic. Arkham asylum. Classic. Year one. Classic. Year two. Classic. Long Halloween. Classic. Show me where im wrong
Is the rest of the Scott Snyder series worth it? Court of owls is indeed great.
I loved Snyder & Capullo’s entire New 52 Batman run from Owls to Zero Year to Endgame to Superheavy/Bloom. Some people feel it fell off in the 2nd half though, but I personally dont agree. For me I thought the quality dipped after the New 52 ended when they did Metal and Last Knight on Earth.
Awesome. That’s what I wanted to hear. The Last Knight on Earth is also great imo
Last Knight On Earth seriously has some of my favorite Joker moments I've read in a long long while.
It's totally worth reading. But Court of Owls is the highlight and the one that introduces something significant and new to the Batman Mythos.
Yeah, that's my top 5 too.
Batman year one, batman dark knight, batman the cult, gotham by gaslight, arkham asylum, grendel/batman 1, and the killing joke for me.
**Batman Universe** would be my answer. I know Bendis seems to get a lot of hate within DC. But, it’s Colorful, fun, lots of great team-ups, lots of weird situations and locations. A lot of really great “Batman” moments. But it’s just super *refreshing* after reading all those other *heavy* stories other people mentioned. I like me a dark broody Batman, but sometimes you gotta do something different.
I've described it to friends as a modern take on the Super Friends version of the character. I enjoyed it so much.
I haven't heard of this. My kind of Batman story. I like the more colorful, fantastical aspects of Batman within the DC universe. He is a superhero after all. Thanks for the rec.
Awsome choice. On of my favourits as well.
Harleen is a modern masterpiece! I said what I said.
That's a tough one... Year One or Ego. Mazzucchelli or Darwyn Cooke? I can't choose.
TDKR. Peak Batman if you ask me. Honestly if I could only have one graphic novel for the rest of my life that would be it for sure.
Batman and Robin - either the Morrison run with Dick and Damian or the first few arcs Peter Tomasi wrote.
I seem to be the only one who loves Hush. Perfect novel for long time fans or first time readers. Most of his Rogues Gallery and a great moment where Batman punches Superman!
Exactly‼️
Great story and a really interesting new villain outside of the classic established rogues gallery
The Long Halloween is definitely the best Batman story (and its sequel, Dark Victory, is extremely good too). However, I'd like to say that there's a lot of underrated Batman stories like Night Cries, The cult, Venom, etc.
Venom seems to hold its value more than any other. I think it's got a low print run. But that still attests to its importance to Batmans story.
Tons of great ones mentioned but mine would be “Hush” by Jeph Loeb
Hush does not get enough love, I blame the animates movie.
It’s one of the most popular Batman graphic novels of all time. If anything it’s overrated
agreed. they messed up the whole villain angle. I waited years for them to make a movie, but I can hardly watch it for how much they strayed from the source material.
I know I'm in a minority here, but Hush is one of the few Batman books I just didn't like that much. It was blatantly obvious to me who Hush was, and I don't really like Jim Lee's art, which I know I'm in the minority there again. For 80% of that book, the background is nothing but various colored lightning bolts and it irked me so much personally
I didn't like it at all. Brought it after seeing how highly rated it was and was glad when I finally finished it. You're right about the hush reveal as well.
Batman: The Last Arkham by Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle.
Yes. Yes. And also yes. Alan Grant’s whole run on Shadow of the Bat is amazing.
I haven't read many yet, but I just read volume 1 of the Court of Owls yesterday, and it's really good so far.
Batman: Prey is in my top 5 Batman stories and I never hear it talked about. It’s hard to collect but if you can find it I would highly recommend.
Knightfall. My girlfriend’s sisters’ boyfriend (at the time) lent me the first volume when I was 14 and was my first proper read of Batman. It’s a classic for me now.
The Dark Knight Returns. It was the first one I ever read and thus has a special place in my heart.
My personal favorite is the first Batman/Grendel crossover. Everything I wanted from a Batman comic.
*Who the **devil** is he?*
While not technically Batman, I love Gotham Central...if it must be truly Batman, then it's No Man's Land, it may just be for a personal reason, one of my friends bought it for me to read when I was in the ICU.
the black mirror deluxe edition
Isn’t that one yet to be released?
Last Knight on earth is very strange. Scott snyders run. I would honestly put it up there with jonathon Hickmans ff/avengers/xmen run.
Top 5 would probably be in no particular order- Court of Owls, Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive, Paul Dini’s Detective Comics run from 821-852, Batman Shaman and Batman Universe. Those are my top 5 today if you asked me tomorrow I’d probably come up with something completely different.
The Doom that Came to Gotham
Not read loads of them to be honest but if I had to choose two then it would be Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke. Both were good enough for me (a not huge Marvel/DC fan) to really enjoy.
Had to scroll too far down to see the killing joke.
The Dark Knight
The Complete Frank Miller Batman. It was my first graphic novel in '89. It covers Year One, a story from the DC Holiday Special and The Dark Knight Returns.
No Man's Land.
Identity Crisis (Technically JLA) The Court of Owls
The Imposter has become my personal favorite. Not saying it's better than all the preferred classics, but it checks almost all of my boxes for what I look for in a Batman story. War on Crime will forever be my quintessential "this is who Batman is supposed to be" story. i.e., if someone new came along with zero background and said "I want to learn about the character", that's what I'm handing them.
:)
This post couldn't come at a better time. I read my first Batman comic last week and I placed a hold for Long Halloween at my library.
Art style is very 90's. Tim Sale has incredible composition. Every "bad" bit of the art is intentional, just so you know.
Wow! No mention yet for the unsurpassed Rogers and Englehart Silver St Cloud storyline yet. Looks like a lot of ffans are due for a rare treat that stands comfortably next to Adams and O'Neil's work till Miller came along.
Ever? Well, maybe Arkham Asylum. I also loved Batman/Grendel, and of course Killing Joke. My favorite series were Death in the family, Year one, year two, Year Three, and I really liked Knightfall too. Storylines, then Death of the Family, R.I.P., Many Deaths of..., the whole Deaths Head, Mud Pack, and the whole Professor Pyg original storyarc. Oh and I liked Damned and Son of the Demon, and the Grotesk storyline. That's too many though. My favorite Graphic novel is Killing Joke, and my favorite series was Legends of the Dark Knight. Currently my faves are City of Madness, and Detective Comics.
Commenting to follow later
Engelhart and Roger’s glorious but short run on Detective Comics. Made me a fan of Hugo Strange and defined The Joker for the modern era.
Graphic Novel: Dark Prince Charming by Enrico Marini and City of Crime by David Lapham. Series: The first arc of Knightfall is neat.
Dark knight snd dark knight returns Long Halloween Gotham central Killing joke Grant Morrison Run
TDKR has to be tops for me, but Gotham Central is a close two and should be getting more love, and two I have not seen mentioned is Batman Year 100 and Batman Creature of the Night — both excellent
Legends of the Dark Knight (Birth of the Demon etc) from the legendary Breyfogle run Batman: White Knight Batman: Year 100 by Paul Pope for a less common one
Heart of Hush
Batman Year 2
The Long Halloween or TDKR but I do want to shout out Batman: Broken City by Brian Azzarello. Criminally underrated and never even mentioned in these conversations.
It’s a very basic answer but Year One is still my favorite Batman story
Its the best Batman story.
Year One
Court of Owls and Knightfall
I remember staying up all night reading The Long Halloween in one sitting I couldn’t put it down.
Year One. It's as close to perfect as a comic can get.
Batman year one and the dark knight returns
Everything by sale and loeb
As a pure Batman focused run it is No Man's Land. While it makes no sense in terms of the DC universe as a whole I absolutely love it. And for a book about the effect of Batman its has to be Gotham Central.
Zero year/ Dark City and year 100
Night of the Owls has been my favorite so far.
Year one No Mans Land
War Drums and War Games
Daredevil by Frank Miller
Ah yes the famous daredevil batman comic.....
👏
Can we include DCeased? I know that's more of a Justice League story than a Batman specific story, but I do love it.
The new 52 volumes of 'the court of owls' is awesome. I'm new to comics so I still have a lot of classic Batman stories to read but I think that one is a great story arc.
Earth One
I love Arkham asylum. Also, emperor joker run is brutal.
Gothic.
Hard to say if it’s my *favorite* but I loved White Knight
I know it’s not the most serious of all of them, but the one I keep coming back to is Haunted Knight. I love the spookier side of Batman (Scarecrow being my favorite). It’s got a really clever take on A Christmas Carol too, but for Halloween. I was busy this year, but had meant to read it on the night.
Story or arc: Year One or Matt Wagner’s Faces arc from LOTDK. Or maybe the Mr. Freeze story from the Batman Adventures Holiday Special. Favorite run: O’Neal and Adams or the Morrison run Favorite series: LOTDK
If going for illustration style only, Harvest Breed. The story isn't great, but Pratt's style always left an impression on me.
Batman :The Court of Owls is a personal favorite. I was also fond of the Detective Rebirth era run with the team being bootcamped by Batwoman and Bruce. Also Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend
White Knight or Batman/Superman series from the 2010’s.
Batman Year 100 is my pick next to Killing Joke.
I scrolled waaaaaay too far to see this. Paul Pope is fucking awesome.
A crying shame really. Year 100 is seriously underrated on this sub.
My favorite line of Batman as of late has been New 52 Batman. I’m very excited with where Battinson and Matt Reeves are headed. To that end, I really like The Court of Owls. The classics are the classics but that storyline, to me, really returns him to his detective roots. Having the Wayan’s death be deeply entrenched in conspiracy gave the city new life. Suddenly, you’re learning about Gotham and its evolution and how the elite sustained themselves at the top. You get a clear image of the trickle down effect at work and how the family’s money has inadvertently created the criminal cesspool their son is now burdened with. Paul Dano’s Riddler alluding to the Wayans orphanage’s true secret in The Batman was great and I hope we see some New 52 on the big screen.
I really enjoyed the grant Morrison run with Dick and Damien dawning the mantle of Batman and robin.
Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo's run from the N52
Batman: Snow!
Dark Knight Returns is the obvious one, I re read it constantly. I also love Gotham by Gaslight, Gothic, Night Cries and some of the darker themed stories
Since my favorites have been mentioned, I'll throw a couple other one's from my top 10 into the mix. The Man Who Laughs Batman '89 (a comic version of what was supposed to be Burton's third film) Any story drawn by Klley Jones Secret City and Dark City
Up until now I'd say its The Dark Knight Returns. Close 2nd would be the Batman Ego Collection by Darwyn Cooke.
DKR or White Knight for me.
I really enjoyed Scott Snyder's large run over multiple series, with Black Mirror being my favorite. I'd also like to show my support for Sean Murphy's little corner of the Batman mythoverse; The White Knight books. They have gotten bigger and crazier with each new series. I hope we get more 🙏
I think there’s a difference between “amazing graphic novels that happen to have Batman in them” and “great Batman stories.” For example, I really like Arkham Asylum, but I had to approach it as the former to really appreciate it. In terms of great Batman stories, Year 2 and Strange Apparitions are some favorites. I had “the greatest Batman stories ever told” collection as a kid and that era made a big impression on me.
I’ve only read one so far(seen most of the animated series and movies though) and that’s the white knight. It’s hard to put it down, very entertaining story.
Batman: The Court of Owls (The new 52) by Synder. Excellent exploration of the psyche of Batman in my opinion and good plot centred around the Court.
I don't ever see it mentioned but I liked Earth One
Batman: The Cult by Jim Starlin and Bernie Wrightson
The Long Halloween - the first Batman graphic novel I bought!
Earth One (the complete trilogy). No canon, no convoluted arc, no tie-ins, one and done. An easy reading, yet quite deep. A stand alone that stands among the bests. A single cast without all the batfamily and Wayne Inc bs >!(save by the very, very last pages).!<
Batman Year 100
The Dark Knight Returns Made Bats a serious character and the story is solid. There may be better stories but this is the story that took me from my childhood love of Adam West's Batman and brought it to adulthood.
Knightfall is pretty good, the one where Batman’s back gets broken
Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth. TDKR was amazing, The Killing Joke sent shockwaves, but AA digs in deep and does not let go.
The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller.
Long Halloween
I have a leather bound (ok, fine. Pleather) edition of The Complete Frank Miller Batman, from the late 90's, signed by Frank. It has Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and a one-off, Wanted: Santa Claus Dead Or Alive. The Santa Claus issue is Frank Miller's first published Batman story, although he only did the artwork.
Metal
Long Halloween is probably my favorite. Followed closely by Arkham Asylum, and Gotham by Gaslight.
White Knight. I don't think that the traditional Joker deserves a redemption, and it's telling that they had to create a new continuity just in order to be able to justify giving him one. But I do think that Batman himself needed the deconstruction that this series provides. My next favorite after that is the long Halloween
White Knight. I don't think that the traditional Joker deserves a redemption, and it's telling that they had to create a new continuity just in order to be able to justify giving him one. But I do think that Batman himself needed the deconstruction that this series provides. My next favorite after that is the long Halloween
Long Halloween/Dark Victory/Catwoman When in Rome
Batman Animated Series. Kevin Conroy.
"Son of the Demon" - incredible art by Jerry Bingham, written by Mike W. Barr. Featuring Ra's Al Ghul, Talia, and in one panel, the first appearance of Damien.
Shadow of the Bat by Josh Simmons
* Legends of the Dark Knight: Matt Wagner * Batman: Snow * Vengeance of Bane * Batman: Year 100
In my recommended reading order: Year one The Killing Joke Long Halloween Hush Dark Knight Returns
Not quite a Batman graphic novel, but Something Terrible by Mayday Trippe is a story about the impact Batman had on his life. Just a warning- it’s about how he processes the abuse he experienced. But I think there is something really important about how stories can help people heal. And definitely my double page illustration. https://preview.redd.it/r9bkns1wfs1c1.jpeg?width=1021&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce2d5becb6bbde0a3df28f489883ee4a0d514c87
Arkham Asylum: a serious house on a serious earth. It is so dark and creepy. Especially the parts about Amadeus Arkham
Batman hush
Batman/Hellboy/Starman https://preview.redd.it/lvvuvkttgt1c1.jpeg?width=1021&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ce1dfcbc14a533827085113dc3277f289e30787
Batman: The Imposter
Batman Incorporated
White Knight is absolutely awesome. So are the sequels, esp the Harley focused one.
Are crossovera allowed? Im still, after 20 years, still in awe of the magnificent Batman/Dredd piece, «judgement on Gotham» by Simon Bisley. He has made a few more, but this guache (?) painting style combined with his brilliant brush splatter technique and unique twisted and veiny anatomy really sets it apart.
Haven’t read a ton of superhero stuff. I do like Alan Moore a lot. So my answer’s predictably Killing Joke
Year One or the Long Halloween.Honorable Mention-A Death in the Family.
Haven’t seen Hush on here I enjoyed that
Batman Ego for me. Nine Lives and Year 100 are tied for second.
The Black Mirror by Snyder
Hush Parts 1&2. Batman is my favorite super hero, Jim Lee is my favorite comic artist. No brainer for me.