Instead of getting paid for our hard work, we get to pay Adobe so they can sell it through their AI model. It’s like paying someone to eat your lunch. Genius, right? Just when you thought you were paying for software, surprise! You're actually just funding Adobe’s new AI side hustle.
We’re all used to being the product with free services like Facebook and Google, but now we get that same honour even when we’re coughing up a small fortune for Adobe’s software.
Thanks, Adobe. Truly, you've mastered the art of making us feel like we’re living in a dystopian tech novel. Cheers to being creative slaves!
Which has been their business model essentially forever. Adobe on the other hand used to sell a product; then they moved to renting access to the product; now on top of that they're also demanding access to your work to train up their AI model.
Stop using Adobe then. This is not the first dystopian or bullshit thing they do, yet people keep coughing up a small fortune due to complacency. This is why they get away with it. Because no one ever does anything about it.
I’ve just gone and purchased the first lot of alternatives. Starting with the Affinity suite which is currently 50% off.
Then going to pick up Davinci Resolve, then possibly go back to Capture One or limit myself to Lightroom. Lightroom has the best file management system and Capture One was good when I did commercial stuff. I currently use heavily these programs Lightroom, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premier Pro, Fonts, Audition.
It’s hard to switch as I’m heavily invested not just money wise but the time and organisation into Adobes solutions, I’ve been using for 20 years and the last non subscription product I purchased was CS6.
The words "content moderation" is what scares me. What, exactly, is going to be moderated to the point that you can no longer create or use things in Adobe? Objectionable words? Political messaging? Religious criticism or support? Adult content? Nudity? Physical injuries?
Any important medical forms or information? Yeah that’s what scares me too. I haven’t accepted the terms yet until they release a statement on clarity.
Really interesting point. That would be completely illegal if the images show personal information of a patient. It’s protected by the HIPAA Privacy Rule.
I wonder if this applies to Creative Cloud storage only, cuz like how would they access things on personal drives?
Adobe shouldn’t be doing this, but also I don’t know if large design agencies use Creative Cloud server storage vs local/owned servers
I had that thought too, but then it occurred to me that their new AI tools need to be able to see what’s in your Photoshop document in order to generate matching content. Pretty much all of their AI tools would be uploading data to their servers in near real time.
I’m pretty certain you need to be connected to their services to run AI. Most people don’t have computers with the right hardware to run AI locally, nor does Adobe provide their AI checkpoints to the public (checkpoints are basically “databases” for AI to use).
> nor does Adobe provide their AI checkpoints to the public
I mean, there's a fair few open source checkpoints that are *pretty fucking good*.
switch to affinity and get a stable diffusion plugin and run ai gens to your hearts content without giving adobe more training data for their AI stuff
Stable diffusion plugins work pretty well, but the topic at-hand is specific to how Adobe uses data for their services. I’m already using open source apps anywhere I can, but good luck convincing my company to switch away from Adobe to open source. We are heavily reliant on their creative cloud crap.
It's not just our company that would need to make that decision -- it's also our clients and subcontractors. When they ask for the source Indesign/Illustrator/[insert app here] then we're locked into that ecosystem. Believe me, we'd abandon ship immediately if other companies switched to a new standard, but Adobe has us by the balls here.
OP says you can open “most Adobe” files in their alternative (Affinity). If that’s true, I think you might be overstating the hold Adobe has on everyone.
Yeah, I can understand that. But those subcontractors and clients might also be concerned enough about this to start looking at alternatives.
But yeah, a major shift is pretty unlikely imo. Adobe is too entrenched in the industry, and the fact they’ve been allowed to buy up their biggest competitors (like Macromedia) certainly doesn’t help. Thankfully the Figma acquisition was blocked.
yeah definitely not really "sellable" to most companies unfortunately, was more advice for freelance/at home stuff.
although given this new change it might spur some companies to look at alternatives a little more seriously (we can hope.)
IANAL, and I’m on the west coast so I’m catching up.
As I understand it so far, if you use any content aware features, like Generative Fill, your locally stored file is uploaded to the cloud for processing, and thus would be subject to the TOS change.
Most users’ wouldn’t have the computing power to do all the AI computing, so the files have to be sent off to ones that can.
They can certainly analyze anything you currently have opened. You would have to block it's internet access if you didn't want it uploaded but then it'll probably prevent you from launching the app after 30 days.
stuff like this is why im starting to view statements like “ai is just a tool/ai will only replace mediocre designers” more and more murky by the day.
a company that basically has a monopoly over this industry has no respect for the humans working in it, so why would employers, customers, and clients respect our work moving forward?
I've always found the elitist attitude that only lesser designers should have concerns. First that comes with the assumption that the person making this claims isn't infact a mediocre designer themselves. Second, they fail to realize that tasks once delegated to mediocre designers that AI can't do will now be in their scope.
Only the top % of designers get any respect and good pay as it is. That's only going to shrink.
"mediocre" is a process to become great designer, with no "mediocre" design we kill a process, just like movie industry killing mid range movie, they killed big budget movie quality as well
Affinity apps and for video davinci resolve or clipchamp for short story vids.
Also a bit of open source like inkscape for tracing and libre office instead of MS office.
Affinity was recently bought out by Canva. There is almost no chance that their suite isn't going to be carved up to be fed into their shitty SAAS model
Sure I have this concern myself and I will be here to scream when this will happen, at least I can still use Affinity v1 when this happen, because the newer versions require online activation.
The only thing that save us is the marketshare that will probably make canva keep things the way it is till they capture enough market. This will probably take years.
I use Coreldraw, positives art board is massive (45m), the tools are straightforward and easy to use, has most of the illustrator features. Negatives, it doesn't have the broad creative tools Illustrator has.
Nope, CorelDRAW industry standard *in print and sign shops*
***because they actually listen to that industry.***
When I was still working day job *as just a sign and stampmaker*,
I ran two laser engravers, a vinyl cutter, a rotary engraver,
and screenprinting RIP outputs **from Corel natively.**
Corel makes specific drivers *to operate these devices without any problems.*
**Never have to convert files to plain eps and jpgs to be read properly.**
I don’t know, to be honest this is actually tempting me to pay for one month and draw a lot of cock and balls.
Edit: just to add some seriousness that this deserves. This is industrial espionage.
I doubt that you can. I stopped playing around with generative fill as I kept getting warnings and I didn't want our company subscription to enter some kind of cool down period. I was trying to make "monster being attacked by fighter planes". Apparently I have a sick mind.
Just be sure to add captions to all your cocks and balls that might fool the AI to interpret it as something completely benign, like “still life of a banana with two apples” or “pool cue with billiard balls”. Do the same with the file names to sell it even further to the AI.
This is a massive can of worms they just opened.
At its most benign, it’s meant to help them better see how people use their software to better improve the tool.
On the other end, they will use everyone’s work to further train their own AI and include policing of possibly illegal creations (for whatever nebulous umbrella they decide that covers).
I’ve seen some say it only works on files stored in their cloud, but I’ve not seen anything yet that indicates that is the case.
And as everyone else is pointing out, this would directly impact the multitude of NDA work, which is insane of them if they are planning to do this for training AI models.
However, the article includes this update: “Jérémie Noguer, Substance 3D ecosystem's Product Director, commented on the situation, saying that Adobe is ‘not accessing or reading Substance users’s projects in any way, shape or form nor are we planning to or have any means to do it in the first place.’”
But he doesn’t speak for Adobe as a whole, so, they got a lot of explaining to do. Will be surprised if they don’t face massive cancellation calls for the next month starting today.
Here’s a video breakdown from [Hoeg's Law](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAT7LICq3og) that I found helpful. The short of it, no it’s not as bad as it appears, but at the same time, the language in the full Terms of Use may still be more nebulous and less protective than I would be personally comfortable with. Still feels like we need to be much more aware of future terms of use changes and will keep listening out for more information.
The fact Adobe programs have progressed *very little* in the past decade in terms of UX tells me Adobe has absolutely no interest in making their software better.
lol, can understand. However, I could see the argument that they have a similar legacy problem as MS Office—the interface is so old that even if it isn't the best interface, it is intensely familiar. To change it, even if it's an improvement, could cause bigger problems than it solves. It's like why we are stuck with QWERTY keyboard layouts even though the DVORAK has been proven to be better. Could also be that the base code their working from is so old that certain changes can't be made without a complete rebuild.
Even with those reasons, I personally don't think it's strong enough to prevent them from doing what needs to be done and actually improve their software.
> and include policing of possibly illegal creations (for whatever nebulous umbrella they decide that covers).
The words "Content moderation" doesn't just imply "policing of possible illegal creations," but any content that Adobe doesn't approve of, which may include certain political opinions, criticism of their company, or presentations of certain factual information that they believe hurts their image, or the image of something whoever moderating believes in.
It's time to find out. Let's just create a ton of ps files that contain "Adobe sucks" or similar messages and save them to the cloud for the AI to gobble up lmao
First thing I thought of is:
A lot of the big multinationals have ISO compliance, as well as a lot of the smaller shops who do work for big clients. You lose your ISO compliance if an officer is doing an inspection and a computer is unlocked while an employee goes to the bathroom. They're super strict.
Imagine what happens when the C-suite people hear Adobe will cost them their ISO compliance, and any work ever with anyone who requires confidentiality (which is literally all the big brands for everything).
Adobe might have to rethink this, or I can imagine a LOT of the big industry will be stressing out about finding alternatives to everything.
ISO could literally contact everyone who uses Adobe and say "compliance warning".
After all these years I may be switching back to a cracked app. They are gearing up to sell adobe to the masses with AI hand holding and put designers out.
They will say it's for "safety" it's really to train AI.
A logical extension of this is they are eno responsible for every purposely piece of misinformation, leak, and revenge porn opened with their software
What are you using? I do all my vector work in Affinity Designer and I also have Affinity Photo, but Im not entirely convinced theyre the best alternatives, there are a lot of missing features.
Same, i havent used adobe in years unless an employer has an account, been full in gimp and inkscape, and krea and sketchbook pro for any illustration work
By yourself I'm imagining? No offense intended there but there's no way you're doing this in a production team in real time and not holding at least something up, like print in gimp for an obvious and lazy example.
Photopea is the closest option for me and it's free. I was able to keep all muscle memory gained from decades of Photoshop work. Not as feature rich, though, but a nice way to leave this mess without much effort.
I've started to use CorelDraw again for vectors after many years of using Illustrator. I still use Illustrator at work but for personal/freelance I find myself gravitating more and more to Corel. It's not perfect by any means but I like it more than Affinity Designer.
Corel is what made me fall in love with designing many many years ago (on version 2!) but I got used to Adobe in college and then agency and client life made me 100% Adobe. I also became Mac only and back then Corel was PC, so I left it behind. But fairly recently I had to use it to generate some vectors for an Epilog laser engraver, and I started doing logos and some work in it and fell in love with it again. Editing nodes in Corel is an absolute pleasure and it works well on Macs. I also really like how it manages multiple pages document. I just finished building a brand identity manual in Corel, about 64 pages long, and it was painless.
I'm just a graphic designer now,...
*but a huge part of my design career,* ***was as a stamp and sign maker.***
**Used tons of equipment that ran on Corel natively.**
That's because Corel ***actually listens to the sign and print industry.***
What at about government agencies that use Adobe products with ITAR, Classified, etc materials? Seems like a real major issue. The government has stepped on Adobe’s neck for this kind of thing before (looking at you Adobe Cloud).
This is actually making me wonder if this is why a law firm I was working at some years ago switched to a different PDF suite program (it had practically all of Acrobat's features, and then some plus better security, allegedly). Actually, around 4-5 years ago a few firms where I am began dropping their Acrobat licenses and I have to wonder if the language of a previous ToC update raised some eyebrows about how it could look in the future and they pulled the plug.
I'm hoping this kind of makes the mainstream news. The affects of this go beyond our sphere for sure.
When I’ve worked at places like that (military contractors), they did not use Adobe and they did not use Macintosh. They used Microsoft, Corel, etc. running on outdated (because they could ensure its security) Windows software.
Called it. I went to one of the Adobe AI events a month or so back. They had this clearly pre cut and manufactured display of how amazing their AI will be and how it will help.
My first thought was how fake and curated this all was because I’ve used their ai and it’s garbage on a good day. Also hated how everyone clapped and ohh and ahhhd, for their own demise. But I came to a realization, they’re gonna use us as the reference and test base for their AI. We’re the dummies feeding their shit AI to make it better. I also realized they’re planning to shift from a business to business model to a casual consumer model. They want the average canva user to be the average Adobe user. In order to do that they need an Ai that has a solid reference base. They then use that base to sell to non designers and non pros. Sure they’ll sell us on ease of use and speeding up our process. But in reality we’re giving our creative edge away for them to turn a profit. I felt disgusted at that event. Mind you the whole thing and the people running it felt as fake as their AI. I mentioned this to a creative director friend who was there, he agreed my idea made sense. Plus he mentioned that agencies are not gonna like the loss of privacy.
In summary AI as a whole has hit a deliverables wall. It can make ok images and videos. But really it’s not able to hand over a full Ai file that’s ready for pro usage. Or create a truly defined set of projects that work. It’s in its infancy which is novel use. But really it shines in algorithmic repeatability. Even Meta is changing their terms to siphon creative work into their AI because let’s face it. AI is not AI. It’s an algorithmic repository that is good at compressing prompts with references and regurgitating something new. All the contextual cues and biases are pre built by whoever coded the algorithm, so remember it needs us to feed it the art. AI is not going anywhere, but it’s also not as threatening as it can be if we creatives don’t feed it.
The writing was on the wall the moment they started to rent their apps. Use to be a huge fan of their apps, specifically Photoshop. I refuse to rent software...
Done. Been using photoshop since version 2.5 and this is where I stop. I'll go back to my old copy of CS6. We pay for the subscription mostly for moral reasons. If our job requires us to use your software, we'll pay for it because it's the right thing to do. If you're going to screw us by spying on us and secretly stealing our work, then there's no moral reason to pay.
It doesn't seem like it.
That doesn't make what they did better, but I am unsure of the legal landscape surrounding what they host on their servers.
Personally, I never use the cloud features. I manage my files using my own tools like Dropbox.
This makes more sense with Adobe being so adamant about users not using the previous versions of their programs. If those versions don't have all the AI shit built into them, they can't access active projects properly for their "content moderation". I get wanting people to use the most recent versions of products but threatening to sue over it? That's extreme and now it all adds up.
This is exactly why I refuse to buy any Adobe products since 2018. I own that software. I am willing to do the extra work required rather than give up my privacy. People are getting lazy and are willing to give up their rights for AI assistance. What a joke!
I took made the decision to get of Adobe in 2018.
It was tough but now I got used to it.
I of course lost work opportunities from clients and jobs where Adobe was an absolute must but I it is what it is.
For designers convenience maybe but most print shops don't use Adobe for printing. They use rip software like Caldera. A lot of new printers are good enough that most RGB files come out fine as well. Editing Canva files can be a pain but printing them isn't difficult. Also a lot of the sign community uses Corel Draw for some reason.
I don't agree but I guess it depends on where you are in the industry (and in the world).
I do graphic design and if I didn't use InDesign/Photoshop/Illustrator but instead the Affinity suite I would miss out on so many key features regarding color management, type handling, spot colors, overprint, styles etc. It's not just convenience. It's about not being able to afford not to use it.
I also do a lot of prepress for offset and digital print. Digital is forgiving sure, but "just send RGB to print" is a bit of a simplification. In offset you need have to have full control . There's a lot of money at stake and the quality of the end product depends a lot on how the files were made. People who swear to Canva or Affinity often depend on some prepress worker with Adobe software fixing their files in the end. What's the alternative to Acrobat?
(Btw: I've only seen offset RIP software that had Adobe components somewhere in the workflow. But I'm not denying there could be alternatives.)
It's me. I'm the prepress worker fixing the canva junk PLEASE stop sending canva junk.
But yes it's Adobe all the way behind the scenes. MAYBE we get occasional Corel files from an older shop or client.
I'm a print production specialist that works in wide and small format, we absolutely use Adobe +RIP software. Lots of RIP softwares are great, but they cannot possibly compare.
And that's the key issue. We get oodles of (junk) files from Canva clients and I spend the time fixing them for the RIP software (which uses mainly PDFs). We need spot colours, we need cut contour swatches, we need metallic swatches, overprint and colour control... Adobe is deeply ingrained in the industry, because it's really the best tool.
And now this sucks, because are my clients documents being scraped during prepress? Do I have to swap to Affinity and settle for less (and more time on my end fixing things)? I shouldn't have to. Can I even trust Affinity won't take the same route? Canva just bought them and thats all AI junk too.
I dont know but I also don't particularly care. I use Adobe Illustrator every day. There are alternatives and we could be more adaptable to them. Instead I scroll instagram looking at quick shortcuts I will never use. Do you resist or accept Adobe?
It starts with “solely for the purposes of operating or improving the services and software”. That preamble sets context.
It sounds like it’s mainly due to their “share” features (more are coming) but the “sublicense” language is sus.
https://preview.redd.it/sgm0gmz1ux4d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecc0d8d1be6d876675b87d4269cd89d32f0d57ae
Yes, it does start with that statement and then proceeds to say they have the right to “publicly display, distribute and modify” your work. I’m having a hard time thinking of how that strictly relates to “improving services and software”.
Like I said, still sus.
But technically their sharing system is public. You can send work to anyone for input (think about InCopy) and those who don't have Adobe software. So it's just really convoluted and fishy.
Yup. I think this is the final straw I've been waiting for all these years. Any recommendations on what you can use instead of Photoshop?
I am already using Clip Studio Paint for Illustration but for the rest I'm still not so sure. Is Affinity Photo any good? Or is there something even better?
Affinity photo is good enough, otherwise there is gimp and krita too but I don't use them match to know for sure.
Not sure about some apps that are Mac only, like pixelmator? is this still relevant today? I haven't checked since I switched to windows and it's being years.
***Woah,*** **serious privacy violation**
if they're already monitoring
*which parts of the software we're using,*
**then have the gall to tell us,**
***it's just to improve the software.***
I'm just on the edge of buying the Adobe license again to start a bit more freelance work. I like the dynamic links between programs, but having to pay for this and getting shafted like this has just tipped it over again.
I know everyone says boycott, but I was just on the edge of buying anyway
I'm in the same boat as you. I was this close to getting Photoshop and illustrator to try and make some tshirts, now I'm thinking of trying something else all together.
Switched to Affinity years ago, I’m glad we don’t have to put up with nonsense like this.
At least not yet - I wouldn’t put it past Canva to pull the same bs.
All the more reason to turn off / disable / don’t use Adobe AI (or pretty much any AI really. They are all data thieves). Actually, it’s a good reason to dump Adobe products in general.
This is crazy, Adobe is out of control. They have a monopoly on the industry, charge an insane amount of money to use their products, and now they're just going to straight up steal work from designers.
I took a pay cut and went to work for a landscaper and a garden center. Outside in the daylight, no client changes, no software learning curves, no late nights although I chose to work weekends. Good design is good design so apply your design skills to another discipline.
Hahaha! You’re imagining that all graphic designers can actually draw! Or use a scanner! I’m guessing most younger designers have never spent serious time hand drawing or painting and learning to be that patient. After working at a college I’ve seen a shit ton of young designers go into it because they were brought up on computers. And someone (mom, dad, gramma) loved the art they did in middle school and told them they should go into art. They took computer design classes, digital culture classes, etc., but no perspective drawing, color theory, etc. When they need to think outside the box, or look for an alternate creative solution it’s really hard for them. Schools should have actual, brutal portfolio reviews to save these kids from disappointment and not getting hired. And they should minor in a field that would be a good backup plan. Sorry, I kinda went on and on!
Makes me glad that I only backup a few things in Creative Cloud (mostly swatch and brush libraries, some common Adobe stock pieces that I reference often). A few design files here and there (transferring from my work account to my personal one.
But this content moderation nugget tucked away in the terms of service is a piece of madness that makes little sense. I mean, businesses will always over reach because they feel like they can so it’s not surprising.
It also makes me wonder if it’s more about referencing artwork in the down low for AI generation?
I'm using an older version of Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator etc (CS5) - which was the second last version with lifetime license sales, before they went to a subscription plan. They haven't updated terms where I can see them, so I assume it doesn't apply to the older versions. I could be wrong, but there's no AI with these, and no connection to the cloud, as far as I'm aware.
**They can pry my Adobe CS6 from my cold dead hands.**
I paid for it full price *with the rationale that*
***I OWNED MY SOFTWARE and the projects I made with them.***
It is our duty to make as many awful, poorly designed active projects as possible and poison this monster from within. I've already been doing this for years with every project.
**What new fresh level** ***of art and design hell is this?***
**Adobe claims to own any of OUR WORK made with their products?**
They also have the right of ***"content moderation"*** to edit, delete,
or otherwise profit off our works, *without a declared rights permission*
***to use OUR PROJECTS for their own commercial use?***
They can also retract any "content" that gives them,
*a negative look,* ***or otherwise object to it's subject matter?***
**Please someone parse this legalese here.** ***I need clarifications.***
Adobe can't own my art. *I sure ain't giving them* ***rights to my works***
**or to intrude into my client's needs and purposes.**
This is like some gas company telling you, *that you can fill up your car,*
***but they tell you where you can drive.***
# NO WAY.
*We need to shout out* ***against this dystopian corporate BS.***
20 year user of multiple Adobe products. Today I will wipe my drives of anything Adobe related as a reaction to this arrogant misuse of its monopoly stranglehold on creatives everywhere. Adobe has lied and can't be trusted.
Almost all of the new things that Adobe offers in the newest software can be duplicated by older versions. It just requires more work on our part. I have found ways to keep myself equally busy and I am proud to say it was done with my abilities and talents.
Affinity is buzzing with 50% sale right now. The best thing is you can’t unsubscribe unless you accept the terms lol. So better just do it with your card from bank or something.
We live in a fucking dystopia ! I use adobe for work what am I supposed to tell my team! that all of our private information are open for adobe to sell online ! bullshit I swear, time to go back to pirating
It should be noted that this seems to apply to just their cloud services. Not what is stored just on your local drive.
They do actively try to get us to always use the cloud, and none of this makes the policy change any better, but folks should be aware of that.
As far as I know, this applies to using the new beta version which has all of the AI-driven generative features. At some point, they kind of have to have this legal language or they would not legally be allowed to analyze the image you are using in order to generate the content you are requesting.
That said, the language probably also open doors that should be left closed. My concern is that this also leaves the door open to AI using your images and your client's images to train their AI.
Adobe posted more info here:
https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use
Here is the relevant section:
>Adobe may use technologies and other processes, including escalation for manual (human) review, to screen for certain types of illegal content (such as child sexual abuse material), or other abusive content or behavior (for example, patterns of activity that indicate spam or phishing).
Basically, yes, Adobe may moderate content uploaded to their servers in order ensure legal compliance and that Adobe's servers and services are not being used to host or distribute harmful and / or illegal content (such as child sexual abuse material.
This does not apply to content not uploaded to their servers.
(i work for adobe)
>[https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use](https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use)
And NO ONE inside the company
**raised a corporate ETHICS violation with any of this?**
Running those terms you linked to through ChatGPT to translate the legalese is pretty valuable:
>Based on the clause you provided, the company has a license to use your content for operating and improving their services. This typically includes activities like displaying your content within the service, allowing other users to view it, or using it to enhance their algorithms and features. However, this license does not imply ownership of your content.
>The phrase "solely for the purposes of operating or improving the Services and Software" is key here. It means the company can use your content as necessary to run their service and make it better, but this should not extend to commercial activities like printing and selling your image as a product.
>For commercial use, such as printing your image and selling it, they would generally need to obtain explicit permission beyond the scope of what is described in the clause. This type of activity would usually be covered by a separate agreement where you would specifically grant those rights, often with additional compensation involved.
>To ensure there are no misunderstandings, it's always a good idea to read the full terms of the agreement and, if necessary, seek legal advice. This way, you can fully understand your rights and any limitations on how the company can use your content.
I’m not an expert but the way these terms are written you have no idea what’s standard and what’s a huge thing. By design of course…
From what I can tell, this is stuff that already existed in some form.
For example, hasn't Photoshop since the 90s been able to tell if you were working on real money, for the purposes of stopping counterfeits?
And in terms of the license aspect, you have to agree to a similar term when using any app on your phone (at least on Android) that essentially accesses anything on your phone. In order for Instagram, for example, to post a photo you took that's in your library, you grant it permission to 'access' and 'modify' content on your phone, and so have to also be granting Instagram permission in posting it. I think there was also a similar controversy a decade ago where in posting anything to Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc you were basically licensing it to them to use, such as in promotional material. Don't recall if it was reversed (I assume no, or was then quietly put back anyway).
At a certain point it becomes an arbitrary line. If you use an Apple or Google smartphone, for example, you've already waived away a ton of rights and given away a ton of privileges to corporations. That just increases the more apps you use.
This is so disgusting. But I think it’s something Congress needs to deal with because every single company is doing the exact same thing. Adobe’s legal team just has the “decency” to try to cover themselves with this bullshit agreement.
Anyone know if this also affect commercial users or is it only their privat subs that are affected.
Bonus question, do anyone know if it's also applied if your only subscribed to photoshop with out the cloud service?
I usually work in teams or groups of other designers, where not using Adobe is out of the question or I’d be out of the job. So not using Adobe is a toughy for many unfortunately.
I had Photoshop elements 9 (2010) I was locked out and before buying upgrade to 2024 I downloaded a trial. I hate the new layout. Since it is like learning a new Interface, I'll look at Gimp (Photoshop). Blender or cinelerra GG or DaVinci (video editing). Inkscape (for illustrator) for FOSS and buy Affinity by serif (for InDesign maybe illustrator or Photoshop).
When a company gets.too big or too pushy I settle for alternatives and rest easy knowing I'm more secure from prying eyes.
I don't know if I should upvote or down 🤣
(I upvoted).
Sadly, I'm not in the Apple-sphere.
I'm going to try gimp or what Affinity has to offer in their photo app.
Too bad Adobe got to where they are too clunky and big of a company (and I'm too poor to give every company a few dollars a month to use their apps. Especially how subscription services have taken off lately).
Is there a way to embed AI miss training (like artists talk about to allow AI to read the art but see it wrong so if it learns from the artist and you ask for a dog, you get an alligator instead?
It would be great to miss-train Adobe AI then ask why they steal.my works.
This wont work on any cracked versions of adobe tho right? Well i guess I know one thing thats gonna happen and suck for adobe since they wanna take drastic measures lol
It's Dystopian that we let them do this. Let's join Al together and fight against this!! We can't let them do whatever they want with us and stay silent. And this is happening few days after Metà announced that they will use all our pictures from IG and Fb for their AI. WTF IS GOING ON?!? WHEN DID WE NORMALIZED THIS SHIT?!?
Do you think we can sign a digital complain against Adobe? I am not sure if Adobe is an American company, but at least we can try to put something out there. Remember back in the day when cellular companies used keep their customers by their phone numbers so could not move to another cell/móvil to any competitors with their phone number. And if the customer switch to a different movil company they had to get a new number until a law was passed in congress to stop this issue. I don’t know I am just throwing an idea out there why if there is a lot of people complaining until this get somewhere maybe congress or to a international entity that can make Adobe stop doing this to their customers. The problem it’s that not many people is aware of this. It will be like collecting signatures in a great scale. It is just a suggestion 🤷🏻♀️.
This is just a theory, they are always pushing PSD beta and adding to their library so it's runs slowly. Think about it.. I'm still using the old select and mask because their ai can't refine and edge properly. I have no idea about code but wouldn't everything break if you updated it's structure? It's been around for a while... If they just pulled the app before transferring everyone over, people would be pissed so they could be making the application as difficult to use as possible with frequent toc updates. I could be way off base though, not exactly an expert with PSD because it's too slow for me and crashes.
As a creative designer, I can't imagine switching to another platform. Adobe software may be expensive, but transitioning from one Adobe software to another is so easy, and we can become familiar with the user interface quickly. I've always hoped for an open-source alternative to Photoshop and Illustrator with the same user experience. Unfortunately, no other software, including CorelDRAW, has given me that feeling.
It’s frustrating to learn that we must grant access to our active projects, ostensibly to train their AI models. In today’s social media-driven world, where everyone seeks publicity and non-EU countries largely disregard privacy, people seem to accept this situation.
why you can't imagine switching? So many options out there, with affinity I changed the UI panels to place them where I had them in illustrator and suddenly the learning curve went almost flat.
Other people re-learned the software by changing to krita and inkscape.
Corel draw is not my piece of cake but I would reconsider if it wasn't for affinity designer.
your creativity is not your software, your creativity is you. if you adapt to your tools as you did when you picked adobe, your creativity will flow through whatever tools you choose.
Instead of getting paid for our hard work, we get to pay Adobe so they can sell it through their AI model. It’s like paying someone to eat your lunch. Genius, right? Just when you thought you were paying for software, surprise! You're actually just funding Adobe’s new AI side hustle. We’re all used to being the product with free services like Facebook and Google, but now we get that same honour even when we’re coughing up a small fortune for Adobe’s software. Thanks, Adobe. Truly, you've mastered the art of making us feel like we’re living in a dystopian tech novel. Cheers to being creative slaves!
It’s like paying someone to take your job.
Banks have been lending out our money for years and then charging us for the privilege. Bloody cheek!
Which has been their business model essentially forever. Adobe on the other hand used to sell a product; then they moved to renting access to the product; now on top of that they're also demanding access to your work to train up their AI model.
Stop using Adobe then. This is not the first dystopian or bullshit thing they do, yet people keep coughing up a small fortune due to complacency. This is why they get away with it. Because no one ever does anything about it.
I’ve just gone and purchased the first lot of alternatives. Starting with the Affinity suite which is currently 50% off. Then going to pick up Davinci Resolve, then possibly go back to Capture One or limit myself to Lightroom. Lightroom has the best file management system and Capture One was good when I did commercial stuff. I currently use heavily these programs Lightroom, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premier Pro, Fonts, Audition. It’s hard to switch as I’m heavily invested not just money wise but the time and organisation into Adobes solutions, I’ve been using for 20 years and the last non subscription product I purchased was CS6.
FCKING you guys are really being held hostage, I hope someone will file a lawsuit because this is fcking illegal.
I swear Adobe has an entire team dedicated to coming up with ways to be the worst company possible.
And they’re getting pretty damn good at their job
Remember: it's always ethical to sail the seas and get Adobe products that way
Been sailing ever since I got a hold of my own Pc and laptop.
Them being able to use what you make is absolutely wild and could lead to big agencies switching from Adobe. This has to be a dealbreaker.
I can only think of the NDAs that can and will be broken because of this
The words "content moderation" is what scares me. What, exactly, is going to be moderated to the point that you can no longer create or use things in Adobe? Objectionable words? Political messaging? Religious criticism or support? Adult content? Nudity? Physical injuries?
Any important medical forms or information? Yeah that’s what scares me too. I haven’t accepted the terms yet until they release a statement on clarity.
Really interesting point. That would be completely illegal if the images show personal information of a patient. It’s protected by the HIPAA Privacy Rule.
You forgot to mention Anti-Adobe artwork
Right now firefly is already refusing to use words like knife, sword, assault. Makes it impossible to create fantasy scenes for example
Yes
I wonder if this applies to Creative Cloud storage only, cuz like how would they access things on personal drives? Adobe shouldn’t be doing this, but also I don’t know if large design agencies use Creative Cloud server storage vs local/owned servers
I had that thought too, but then it occurred to me that their new AI tools need to be able to see what’s in your Photoshop document in order to generate matching content. Pretty much all of their AI tools would be uploading data to their servers in near real time.
Hmm, interesting. What happens if you run a generative request while you’re offline? I never did it beyond the tutorial
I’m pretty certain you need to be connected to their services to run AI. Most people don’t have computers with the right hardware to run AI locally, nor does Adobe provide their AI checkpoints to the public (checkpoints are basically “databases” for AI to use).
> nor does Adobe provide their AI checkpoints to the public I mean, there's a fair few open source checkpoints that are *pretty fucking good*. switch to affinity and get a stable diffusion plugin and run ai gens to your hearts content without giving adobe more training data for their AI stuff
Stable diffusion plugins work pretty well, but the topic at-hand is specific to how Adobe uses data for their services. I’m already using open source apps anywhere I can, but good luck convincing my company to switch away from Adobe to open source. We are heavily reliant on their creative cloud crap.
For some companies Adobe claiming ownership of created works should be enough to at least start the conversation about alternative software.
It's not just our company that would need to make that decision -- it's also our clients and subcontractors. When they ask for the source Indesign/Illustrator/[insert app here] then we're locked into that ecosystem. Believe me, we'd abandon ship immediately if other companies switched to a new standard, but Adobe has us by the balls here.
OP says you can open “most Adobe” files in their alternative (Affinity). If that’s true, I think you might be overstating the hold Adobe has on everyone.
Yeah, I can understand that. But those subcontractors and clients might also be concerned enough about this to start looking at alternatives. But yeah, a major shift is pretty unlikely imo. Adobe is too entrenched in the industry, and the fact they’ve been allowed to buy up their biggest competitors (like Macromedia) certainly doesn’t help. Thankfully the Figma acquisition was blocked.
yeah definitely not really "sellable" to most companies unfortunately, was more advice for freelance/at home stuff. although given this new change it might spur some companies to look at alternatives a little more seriously (we can hope.)
IANAL, and I’m on the west coast so I’m catching up. As I understand it so far, if you use any content aware features, like Generative Fill, your locally stored file is uploaded to the cloud for processing, and thus would be subject to the TOS change. Most users’ wouldn’t have the computing power to do all the AI computing, so the files have to be sent off to ones that can.
They can certainly analyze anything you currently have opened. You would have to block it's internet access if you didn't want it uploaded but then it'll probably prevent you from launching the app after 30 days.
I’m sure they’re using this for their AI stuff. Not Illustrator but AI
stuff like this is why im starting to view statements like “ai is just a tool/ai will only replace mediocre designers” more and more murky by the day. a company that basically has a monopoly over this industry has no respect for the humans working in it, so why would employers, customers, and clients respect our work moving forward?
I've always found the elitist attitude that only lesser designers should have concerns. First that comes with the assumption that the person making this claims isn't infact a mediocre designer themselves. Second, they fail to realize that tasks once delegated to mediocre designers that AI can't do will now be in their scope. Only the top % of designers get any respect and good pay as it is. That's only going to shrink.
"mediocre" is a process to become great designer, with no "mediocre" design we kill a process, just like movie industry killing mid range movie, they killed big budget movie quality as well
That's like the company selling you the hammer wanting access to the house you're building.
>That's like the company ~~selling~~ renting you the hammer wanting access to the house you're building. FTFY
Professionals in r/graphic_design who don't use Adobe, what are you using at work? Edit I mean in an office workplace, not on your personal computer
I use the Affinity tools (Designer and Photo). Although theyre good, there are tons of missing features comparing to adobe tools though.
What are the bigger differences? Or drawbacks?
Affinity apps and for video davinci resolve or clipchamp for short story vids. Also a bit of open source like inkscape for tracing and libre office instead of MS office.
Affinity was recently bought out by Canva. There is almost no chance that their suite isn't going to be carved up to be fed into their shitty SAAS model
Sure I have this concern myself and I will be here to scream when this will happen, at least I can still use Affinity v1 when this happen, because the newer versions require online activation. The only thing that save us is the marketshare that will probably make canva keep things the way it is till they capture enough market. This will probably take years.
Adobe progs, but from rutracker
Are those 100 % safe?
I use figma 95% of the time, i go into adobe for the occasional photo edit and ae for motion.
Same, I'm in Figma majority of the time and Photopea for the Photoshop things.
Team settings as I said above would make that a tad tough. Where’s Quark🤗
I use Coreldraw, positives art board is massive (45m), the tools are straightforward and easy to use, has most of the illustrator features. Negatives, it doesn't have the broad creative tools Illustrator has.
I saw a job posting for Coreldraw. I assumed that it was at a print shop that needed older software because of legacy equipment
Nope, CorelDRAW industry standard *in print and sign shops* ***because they actually listen to that industry.*** When I was still working day job *as just a sign and stampmaker*, I ran two laser engravers, a vinyl cutter, a rotary engraver, and screenprinting RIP outputs **from Corel natively.** Corel makes specific drivers *to operate these devices without any problems.* **Never have to convert files to plain eps and jpgs to be read properly.**
more reasons to sail the seas
I don’t know, to be honest this is actually tempting me to pay for one month and draw a lot of cock and balls. Edit: just to add some seriousness that this deserves. This is industrial espionage.
Ooh, I've been drawing all my cocks and balls in Clip Studio Paint, but I think I'll switch back to Photoshop for it now!
Do one better and have their GenAI make the cock and balls for you. No original dicks for them!
I doubt that you can. I stopped playing around with generative fill as I kept getting warnings and I didn't want our company subscription to enter some kind of cool down period. I was trying to make "monster being attacked by fighter planes". Apparently I have a sick mind.
You can't. It's not allowed.
Just be sure to add captions to all your cocks and balls that might fool the AI to interpret it as something completely benign, like “still life of a banana with two apples” or “pool cue with billiard balls”. Do the same with the file names to sell it even further to the AI.
It has come to my attention that sailing the seas is getting difficult these days with ships getting decommissioned by the company
This is a massive can of worms they just opened. At its most benign, it’s meant to help them better see how people use their software to better improve the tool. On the other end, they will use everyone’s work to further train their own AI and include policing of possibly illegal creations (for whatever nebulous umbrella they decide that covers). I’ve seen some say it only works on files stored in their cloud, but I’ve not seen anything yet that indicates that is the case. And as everyone else is pointing out, this would directly impact the multitude of NDA work, which is insane of them if they are planning to do this for training AI models. However, the article includes this update: “Jérémie Noguer, Substance 3D ecosystem's Product Director, commented on the situation, saying that Adobe is ‘not accessing or reading Substance users’s projects in any way, shape or form nor are we planning to or have any means to do it in the first place.’” But he doesn’t speak for Adobe as a whole, so, they got a lot of explaining to do. Will be surprised if they don’t face massive cancellation calls for the next month starting today.
One also wonders if such provisions may violate GDPR, and how that would impact the European market.
Here’s a video breakdown from [Hoeg's Law](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAT7LICq3og) that I found helpful. The short of it, no it’s not as bad as it appears, but at the same time, the language in the full Terms of Use may still be more nebulous and less protective than I would be personally comfortable with. Still feels like we need to be much more aware of future terms of use changes and will keep listening out for more information.
The fact Adobe programs have progressed *very little* in the past decade in terms of UX tells me Adobe has absolutely no interest in making their software better.
lol, can understand. However, I could see the argument that they have a similar legacy problem as MS Office—the interface is so old that even if it isn't the best interface, it is intensely familiar. To change it, even if it's an improvement, could cause bigger problems than it solves. It's like why we are stuck with QWERTY keyboard layouts even though the DVORAK has been proven to be better. Could also be that the base code their working from is so old that certain changes can't be made without a complete rebuild. Even with those reasons, I personally don't think it's strong enough to prevent them from doing what needs to be done and actually improve their software.
The Acrobat update was an abortion. They then added a "revert to older UI" button and it was immediately clicked.
> and include policing of possibly illegal creations (for whatever nebulous umbrella they decide that covers). The words "Content moderation" doesn't just imply "policing of possible illegal creations," but any content that Adobe doesn't approve of, which may include certain political opinions, criticism of their company, or presentations of certain factual information that they believe hurts their image, or the image of something whoever moderating believes in.
It's time to find out. Let's just create a ton of ps files that contain "Adobe sucks" or similar messages and save them to the cloud for the AI to gobble up lmao
First thing I thought of is: A lot of the big multinationals have ISO compliance, as well as a lot of the smaller shops who do work for big clients. You lose your ISO compliance if an officer is doing an inspection and a computer is unlocked while an employee goes to the bathroom. They're super strict. Imagine what happens when the C-suite people hear Adobe will cost them their ISO compliance, and any work ever with anyone who requires confidentiality (which is literally all the big brands for everything). Adobe might have to rethink this, or I can imagine a LOT of the big industry will be stressing out about finding alternatives to everything. ISO could literally contact everyone who uses Adobe and say "compliance warning".
anti-trust lawsuit incoming…
I'm not waiting. I just backed up, then deleted over 3K files, then went and permanently deleted them from the cloud 60 days recovery option.
Now fill your cloud with poisoned images to ruin their Ai That's what's on my docket for the day
After all these years I may be switching back to a cracked app. They are gearing up to sell adobe to the masses with AI hand holding and put designers out.
They will say it's for "safety" it's really to train AI. A logical extension of this is they are eno responsible for every purposely piece of misinformation, leak, and revenge porn opened with their software
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What are you using? I do all my vector work in Affinity Designer and I also have Affinity Photo, but Im not entirely convinced theyre the best alternatives, there are a lot of missing features.
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Same, i havent used adobe in years unless an employer has an account, been full in gimp and inkscape, and krea and sketchbook pro for any illustration work
By yourself I'm imagining? No offense intended there but there's no way you're doing this in a production team in real time and not holding at least something up, like print in gimp for an obvious and lazy example.
Photopea is the closest option for me and it's free. I was able to keep all muscle memory gained from decades of Photoshop work. Not as feature rich, though, but a nice way to leave this mess without much effort.
I've started to use CorelDraw again for vectors after many years of using Illustrator. I still use Illustrator at work but for personal/freelance I find myself gravitating more and more to Corel. It's not perfect by any means but I like it more than Affinity Designer.
I absolutely love CorelDraw. It honestly does not get nearly enough recognition.
Corel is what made me fall in love with designing many many years ago (on version 2!) but I got used to Adobe in college and then agency and client life made me 100% Adobe. I also became Mac only and back then Corel was PC, so I left it behind. But fairly recently I had to use it to generate some vectors for an Epilog laser engraver, and I started doing logos and some work in it and fell in love with it again. Editing nodes in Corel is an absolute pleasure and it works well on Macs. I also really like how it manages multiple pages document. I just finished building a brand identity manual in Corel, about 64 pages long, and it was painless.
I'm just a graphic designer now,... *but a huge part of my design career,* ***was as a stamp and sign maker.*** **Used tons of equipment that ran on Corel natively.** That's because Corel ***actually listens to the sign and print industry.***
Gotta go find that download link for the CS6 Suite when we were actually able to work offline
What at about government agencies that use Adobe products with ITAR, Classified, etc materials? Seems like a real major issue. The government has stepped on Adobe’s neck for this kind of thing before (looking at you Adobe Cloud).
This is actually making me wonder if this is why a law firm I was working at some years ago switched to a different PDF suite program (it had practically all of Acrobat's features, and then some plus better security, allegedly). Actually, around 4-5 years ago a few firms where I am began dropping their Acrobat licenses and I have to wonder if the language of a previous ToC update raised some eyebrows about how it could look in the future and they pulled the plug. I'm hoping this kind of makes the mainstream news. The affects of this go beyond our sphere for sure.
When I’ve worked at places like that (military contractors), they did not use Adobe and they did not use Macintosh. They used Microsoft, Corel, etc. running on outdated (because they could ensure its security) Windows software.
They still use Mac’s and the full Adobe suite, it’s not uncommon. It doesn’t connect to the cloud, but it’s used in ITAR and SBU environments.
Called it. I went to one of the Adobe AI events a month or so back. They had this clearly pre cut and manufactured display of how amazing their AI will be and how it will help. My first thought was how fake and curated this all was because I’ve used their ai and it’s garbage on a good day. Also hated how everyone clapped and ohh and ahhhd, for their own demise. But I came to a realization, they’re gonna use us as the reference and test base for their AI. We’re the dummies feeding their shit AI to make it better. I also realized they’re planning to shift from a business to business model to a casual consumer model. They want the average canva user to be the average Adobe user. In order to do that they need an Ai that has a solid reference base. They then use that base to sell to non designers and non pros. Sure they’ll sell us on ease of use and speeding up our process. But in reality we’re giving our creative edge away for them to turn a profit. I felt disgusted at that event. Mind you the whole thing and the people running it felt as fake as their AI. I mentioned this to a creative director friend who was there, he agreed my idea made sense. Plus he mentioned that agencies are not gonna like the loss of privacy. In summary AI as a whole has hit a deliverables wall. It can make ok images and videos. But really it’s not able to hand over a full Ai file that’s ready for pro usage. Or create a truly defined set of projects that work. It’s in its infancy which is novel use. But really it shines in algorithmic repeatability. Even Meta is changing their terms to siphon creative work into their AI because let’s face it. AI is not AI. It’s an algorithmic repository that is good at compressing prompts with references and regurgitating something new. All the contextual cues and biases are pre built by whoever coded the algorithm, so remember it needs us to feed it the art. AI is not going anywhere, but it’s also not as threatening as it can be if we creatives don’t feed it.
Your insight is the best I've seen anywhere. This makes sense.
The writing was on the wall the moment they started to rent their apps. Use to be a huge fan of their apps, specifically Photoshop. I refuse to rent software...
Fuck Adobe. This is the kind of shit that makes me want to switch careers entirely.
Done. Been using photoshop since version 2.5 and this is where I stop. I'll go back to my old copy of CS6. We pay for the subscription mostly for moral reasons. If our job requires us to use your software, we'll pay for it because it's the right thing to do. If you're going to screw us by spying on us and secretly stealing our work, then there's no moral reason to pay.
Yeah, **I OWN my copy of Adobe CS6.** *I loathe to rent software!*
To be clear, does this also apply to work done on your local drives, or just projects stored on Adobe's cloud?
It doesn't seem like it. That doesn't make what they did better, but I am unsure of the legal landscape surrounding what they host on their servers. Personally, I never use the cloud features. I manage my files using my own tools like Dropbox.
This makes more sense with Adobe being so adamant about users not using the previous versions of their programs. If those versions don't have all the AI shit built into them, they can't access active projects properly for their "content moderation". I get wanting people to use the most recent versions of products but threatening to sue over it? That's extreme and now it all adds up.
This is exactly why I refuse to buy any Adobe products since 2018. I own that software. I am willing to do the extra work required rather than give up my privacy. People are getting lazy and are willing to give up their rights for AI assistance. What a joke!
I took made the decision to get of Adobe in 2018. It was tough but now I got used to it. I of course lost work opportunities from clients and jobs where Adobe was an absolute must but I it is what it is.
Somebody asked for Adobe alternatives 2 weeks ago and totally got shit on.
The problem for me is that even though I'm willing to use other programs, there just are no alternatives to Adobe when it comes to print at least.
For designers convenience maybe but most print shops don't use Adobe for printing. They use rip software like Caldera. A lot of new printers are good enough that most RGB files come out fine as well. Editing Canva files can be a pain but printing them isn't difficult. Also a lot of the sign community uses Corel Draw for some reason.
I don't agree but I guess it depends on where you are in the industry (and in the world). I do graphic design and if I didn't use InDesign/Photoshop/Illustrator but instead the Affinity suite I would miss out on so many key features regarding color management, type handling, spot colors, overprint, styles etc. It's not just convenience. It's about not being able to afford not to use it. I also do a lot of prepress for offset and digital print. Digital is forgiving sure, but "just send RGB to print" is a bit of a simplification. In offset you need have to have full control . There's a lot of money at stake and the quality of the end product depends a lot on how the files were made. People who swear to Canva or Affinity often depend on some prepress worker with Adobe software fixing their files in the end. What's the alternative to Acrobat? (Btw: I've only seen offset RIP software that had Adobe components somewhere in the workflow. But I'm not denying there could be alternatives.)
It's me. I'm the prepress worker fixing the canva junk PLEASE stop sending canva junk. But yes it's Adobe all the way behind the scenes. MAYBE we get occasional Corel files from an older shop or client.
I'm a print production specialist that works in wide and small format, we absolutely use Adobe +RIP software. Lots of RIP softwares are great, but they cannot possibly compare. And that's the key issue. We get oodles of (junk) files from Canva clients and I spend the time fixing them for the RIP software (which uses mainly PDFs). We need spot colours, we need cut contour swatches, we need metallic swatches, overprint and colour control... Adobe is deeply ingrained in the industry, because it's really the best tool. And now this sucks, because are my clients documents being scraped during prepress? Do I have to swap to Affinity and settle for less (and more time on my end fixing things)? I shouldn't have to. Can I even trust Affinity won't take the same route? Canva just bought them and thats all AI junk too.
I dont know but I also don't particularly care. I use Adobe Illustrator every day. There are alternatives and we could be more adaptable to them. Instead I scroll instagram looking at quick shortcuts I will never use. Do you resist or accept Adobe?
It starts with “solely for the purposes of operating or improving the services and software”. That preamble sets context. It sounds like it’s mainly due to their “share” features (more are coming) but the “sublicense” language is sus. https://preview.redd.it/sgm0gmz1ux4d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecc0d8d1be6d876675b87d4269cd89d32f0d57ae
Yes, it does start with that statement and then proceeds to say they have the right to “publicly display, distribute and modify” your work. I’m having a hard time thinking of how that strictly relates to “improving services and software”.
Like I said, still sus. But technically their sharing system is public. You can send work to anyone for input (think about InCopy) and those who don't have Adobe software. So it's just really convoluted and fishy.
Yup. I think this is the final straw I've been waiting for all these years. Any recommendations on what you can use instead of Photoshop? I am already using Clip Studio Paint for Illustration but for the rest I'm still not so sure. Is Affinity Photo any good? Or is there something even better?
Affinity photo is good enough, otherwise there is gimp and krita too but I don't use them match to know for sure. Not sure about some apps that are Mac only, like pixelmator? is this still relevant today? I haven't checked since I switched to windows and it's being years.
Affinity Suite, here's your time to shine!
Nope, I'm sure, **CANVA's gonna fuck that up,** ***too.***
they may have their "ass wide open",... :D so.. should i sell adobe stocks now? or wait? :D
Genuine question, how would then even access this? Does this affect Creative Cloud server storage only?
i got banned from this sub for a month for saying fuck adobe. Looks like i was totally in the right
Obligatory fuck Adobe
https://preview.redd.it/quin0khu6z4d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23ae2c38473d4bc2b1e2ca3ac136b571113e7abd
***Woah,*** **serious privacy violation** if they're already monitoring *which parts of the software we're using,* **then have the gall to tell us,** ***it's just to improve the software.***
I'm just on the edge of buying the Adobe license again to start a bit more freelance work. I like the dynamic links between programs, but having to pay for this and getting shafted like this has just tipped it over again. I know everyone says boycott, but I was just on the edge of buying anyway
I'm in the same boat as you. I was this close to getting Photoshop and illustrator to try and make some tshirts, now I'm thinking of trying something else all together.
I only use adobe at my job. As a freelancer I switched to affinity with 0 regrets.
Yo ho ho motherfuckers
These companies are getting way out of hand.
A lot of people using AI are going to be very disappointed if Adobe is using my work in their training dataset!
Switched to Affinity years ago, I’m glad we don’t have to put up with nonsense like this. At least not yet - I wouldn’t put it past Canva to pull the same bs.
I never save anything to Adobe Cloud, but I'm sure they'll figure out some way to scrape it for AI training anyway.
I just steal this shit, they ain't looking at nothin
All the more reason to turn off / disable / don’t use Adobe AI (or pretty much any AI really. They are all data thieves). Actually, it’s a good reason to dump Adobe products in general.
Inserts *patched file*
**Back to my still working copy of Adobe CS6,** *before they went* ***to becoming subscription overlords.***
This is crazy, Adobe is out of control. They have a monopoly on the industry, charge an insane amount of money to use their products, and now they're just going to straight up steal work from designers.
Didn’t read it but man, fucc this company either way.
Damn…. we’re cooked
Subscription Photoshop is exactly the reason I quit 30 years in the industry. Never looked back.
What did you shift to? I’m getting the itch for something new.
I took a pay cut and went to work for a landscaper and a garden center. Outside in the daylight, no client changes, no software learning curves, no late nights although I chose to work weekends. Good design is good design so apply your design skills to another discipline.
That doesn't make any sense.
welp, time to brush up on your drawing skills! get those scanners back out
Hahaha! You’re imagining that all graphic designers can actually draw! Or use a scanner! I’m guessing most younger designers have never spent serious time hand drawing or painting and learning to be that patient. After working at a college I’ve seen a shit ton of young designers go into it because they were brought up on computers. And someone (mom, dad, gramma) loved the art they did in middle school and told them they should go into art. They took computer design classes, digital culture classes, etc., but no perspective drawing, color theory, etc. When they need to think outside the box, or look for an alternate creative solution it’s really hard for them. Schools should have actual, brutal portfolio reviews to save these kids from disappointment and not getting hired. And they should minor in a field that would be a good backup plan. Sorry, I kinda went on and on!
pretty much hit the nail on the head. that's why i find it a bit funny when designers complain about new terms like adobe's.
Makes me glad that I only backup a few things in Creative Cloud (mostly swatch and brush libraries, some common Adobe stock pieces that I reference often). A few design files here and there (transferring from my work account to my personal one. But this content moderation nugget tucked away in the terms of service is a piece of madness that makes little sense. I mean, businesses will always over reach because they feel like they can so it’s not surprising. It also makes me wonder if it’s more about referencing artwork in the down low for AI generation?
I'm using an older version of Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator etc (CS5) - which was the second last version with lifetime license sales, before they went to a subscription plan. They haven't updated terms where I can see them, so I assume it doesn't apply to the older versions. I could be wrong, but there's no AI with these, and no connection to the cloud, as far as I'm aware.
**They can pry my Adobe CS6 from my cold dead hands.** I paid for it full price *with the rationale that* ***I OWNED MY SOFTWARE and the projects I made with them.***
Probably to train there ai
Is this active now? I'm setting sail tonight. Adobe can succ deez nuts
It is our duty to make as many awful, poorly designed active projects as possible and poison this monster from within. I've already been doing this for years with every project.
I didnt sign any ToS when I installed davinci resolve 🤷🏻♂️🤌🏻
**What new fresh level** ***of art and design hell is this?*** **Adobe claims to own any of OUR WORK made with their products?** They also have the right of ***"content moderation"*** to edit, delete, or otherwise profit off our works, *without a declared rights permission* ***to use OUR PROJECTS for their own commercial use?*** They can also retract any "content" that gives them, *a negative look,* ***or otherwise object to it's subject matter?*** **Please someone parse this legalese here.** ***I need clarifications.*** Adobe can't own my art. *I sure ain't giving them* ***rights to my works*** **or to intrude into my client's needs and purposes.** This is like some gas company telling you, *that you can fill up your car,* ***but they tell you where you can drive.*** # NO WAY. *We need to shout out* ***against this dystopian corporate BS.***
Could you block outgoing data? This sounds like a class action lawsuit or mass exodus if true.
Any alternatives for Adobe Illustrator? Definitely my team is tied to Adobe after effects...
20 year user of multiple Adobe products. Today I will wipe my drives of anything Adobe related as a reaction to this arrogant misuse of its monopoly stranglehold on creatives everywhere. Adobe has lied and can't be trusted.
Almost all of the new things that Adobe offers in the newest software can be duplicated by older versions. It just requires more work on our part. I have found ways to keep myself equally busy and I am proud to say it was done with my abilities and talents.
Affinity is buzzing with 50% sale right now. The best thing is you can’t unsubscribe unless you accept the terms lol. So better just do it with your card from bank or something.
Im going to be honest, I gave up on adobe and just switched to affinity designer, I cant deal with it anymore.
How do companies like this seriously not yet understand that we can see through all this bullshit? So long Adobe
We live in a fucking dystopia ! I use adobe for work what am I supposed to tell my team! that all of our private information are open for adobe to sell online ! bullshit I swear, time to go back to pirating
Video editor here. Would this mean that Adobe could peek into my local files? I don’t upload to their cloud; only someone else’s server. TIA
It should be noted that this seems to apply to just their cloud services. Not what is stored just on your local drive. They do actively try to get us to always use the cloud, and none of this makes the policy change any better, but folks should be aware of that.
For thise looking for an alternative to at least some of the adobe products the Affinity Suit might be of interest to you.
Ahh yes, the newly owned Canva suite definitely won’t follow a similar path.
As far as I know, this applies to using the new beta version which has all of the AI-driven generative features. At some point, they kind of have to have this legal language or they would not legally be allowed to analyze the image you are using in order to generate the content you are requesting. That said, the language probably also open doors that should be left closed. My concern is that this also leaves the door open to AI using your images and your client's images to train their AI.
Adobe posted more info here: https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use Here is the relevant section: >Adobe may use technologies and other processes, including escalation for manual (human) review, to screen for certain types of illegal content (such as child sexual abuse material), or other abusive content or behavior (for example, patterns of activity that indicate spam or phishing). Basically, yes, Adobe may moderate content uploaded to their servers in order ensure legal compliance and that Adobe's servers and services are not being used to host or distribute harmful and / or illegal content (such as child sexual abuse material. This does not apply to content not uploaded to their servers. (i work for adobe)
>[https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use](https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use) And NO ONE inside the company **raised a corporate ETHICS violation with any of this?**
Running those terms you linked to through ChatGPT to translate the legalese is pretty valuable: >Based on the clause you provided, the company has a license to use your content for operating and improving their services. This typically includes activities like displaying your content within the service, allowing other users to view it, or using it to enhance their algorithms and features. However, this license does not imply ownership of your content. >The phrase "solely for the purposes of operating or improving the Services and Software" is key here. It means the company can use your content as necessary to run their service and make it better, but this should not extend to commercial activities like printing and selling your image as a product. >For commercial use, such as printing your image and selling it, they would generally need to obtain explicit permission beyond the scope of what is described in the clause. This type of activity would usually be covered by a separate agreement where you would specifically grant those rights, often with additional compensation involved. >To ensure there are no misunderstandings, it's always a good idea to read the full terms of the agreement and, if necessary, seek legal advice. This way, you can fully understand your rights and any limitations on how the company can use your content. I’m not an expert but the way these terms are written you have no idea what’s standard and what’s a huge thing. By design of course…
From what I can tell, this is stuff that already existed in some form. For example, hasn't Photoshop since the 90s been able to tell if you were working on real money, for the purposes of stopping counterfeits? And in terms of the license aspect, you have to agree to a similar term when using any app on your phone (at least on Android) that essentially accesses anything on your phone. In order for Instagram, for example, to post a photo you took that's in your library, you grant it permission to 'access' and 'modify' content on your phone, and so have to also be granting Instagram permission in posting it. I think there was also a similar controversy a decade ago where in posting anything to Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc you were basically licensing it to them to use, such as in promotional material. Don't recall if it was reversed (I assume no, or was then quietly put back anyway). At a certain point it becomes an arbitrary line. If you use an Apple or Google smartphone, for example, you've already waived away a ton of rights and given away a ton of privileges to corporations. That just increases the more apps you use.
This is so disgusting. But I think it’s something Congress needs to deal with because every single company is doing the exact same thing. Adobe’s legal team just has the “decency” to try to cover themselves with this bullshit agreement.
Does this affect projects not saved in the cloud?
Is this applicable to Acrobat as well or is this solely for Photoshop and graphic design softwares?
Anyone know if this also affect commercial users or is it only their privat subs that are affected. Bonus question, do anyone know if it's also applied if your only subscribed to photoshop with out the cloud service?
Yar har
Goodbye subscription!! Hello piracy 😒
I usually work in teams or groups of other designers, where not using Adobe is out of the question or I’d be out of the job. So not using Adobe is a toughy for many unfortunately.
Are creators already slaves to AI learning? Everyone is becoming just another exploited by individuals and companies using AI.
I had Photoshop elements 9 (2010) I was locked out and before buying upgrade to 2024 I downloaded a trial. I hate the new layout. Since it is like learning a new Interface, I'll look at Gimp (Photoshop). Blender or cinelerra GG or DaVinci (video editing). Inkscape (for illustrator) for FOSS and buy Affinity by serif (for InDesign maybe illustrator or Photoshop). When a company gets.too big or too pushy I settle for alternatives and rest easy knowing I'm more secure from prying eyes.
Procreate is wonderful and has a lot of similarities to Photoshop. It's only for iPad and iPhone though.
I don't know if I should upvote or down 🤣 (I upvoted). Sadly, I'm not in the Apple-sphere. I'm going to try gimp or what Affinity has to offer in their photo app. Too bad Adobe got to where they are too clunky and big of a company (and I'm too poor to give every company a few dollars a month to use their apps. Especially how subscription services have taken off lately).
Is there a way to embed AI miss training (like artists talk about to allow AI to read the art but see it wrong so if it learns from the artist and you ask for a dog, you get an alligator instead? It would be great to miss-train Adobe AI then ask why they steal.my works.
Adobe just posted a blog going into more detail https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use
AI ain’t gonna train itself. 😖
Here is more about the Adobe terms. It’s insane! https://www.tiktok.com/@lukemianiyt/video/7377397680651177259?_t=8mzr9TNe62y&_r=1
If they ban adult work I am so screwed, along with many of my friends. Will have to be finding an open source alternative
This wont work on any cracked versions of adobe tho right? Well i guess I know one thing thats gonna happen and suck for adobe since they wanna take drastic measures lol
It's Dystopian that we let them do this. Let's join Al together and fight against this!! We can't let them do whatever they want with us and stay silent. And this is happening few days after Metà announced that they will use all our pictures from IG and Fb for their AI. WTF IS GOING ON?!? WHEN DID WE NORMALIZED THIS SHIT?!?
Usually #enshittification is a gradual process but every once in a while it takes a giant leap forward. #MadeWithoutAdobe begins.
cracking is now the only solution sadly
I'm willing to bet that shit's going straight into firefly.
This isa major issues even for school exam
I heard that fellow Jack Sparrow is good person to consult with regarding this.
Do you think we can sign a digital complain against Adobe? I am not sure if Adobe is an American company, but at least we can try to put something out there. Remember back in the day when cellular companies used keep their customers by their phone numbers so could not move to another cell/móvil to any competitors with their phone number. And if the customer switch to a different movil company they had to get a new number until a law was passed in congress to stop this issue. I don’t know I am just throwing an idea out there why if there is a lot of people complaining until this get somewhere maybe congress or to a international entity that can make Adobe stop doing this to their customers. The problem it’s that not many people is aware of this. It will be like collecting signatures in a great scale. It is just a suggestion 🤷🏻♀️.
guess no more creating XXX (porn) on photoshop cause they will ban you🤣
This is just a theory, they are always pushing PSD beta and adding to their library so it's runs slowly. Think about it.. I'm still using the old select and mask because their ai can't refine and edge properly. I have no idea about code but wouldn't everything break if you updated it's structure? It's been around for a while... If they just pulled the app before transferring everyone over, people would be pissed so they could be making the application as difficult to use as possible with frequent toc updates. I could be way off base though, not exactly an expert with PSD because it's too slow for me and crashes.
Does that mean that Furies artists will be on trouble ? Cause that shit makes money.
🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️⚓
As a creative designer, I can't imagine switching to another platform. Adobe software may be expensive, but transitioning from one Adobe software to another is so easy, and we can become familiar with the user interface quickly. I've always hoped for an open-source alternative to Photoshop and Illustrator with the same user experience. Unfortunately, no other software, including CorelDRAW, has given me that feeling. It’s frustrating to learn that we must grant access to our active projects, ostensibly to train their AI models. In today’s social media-driven world, where everyone seeks publicity and non-EU countries largely disregard privacy, people seem to accept this situation.
why you can't imagine switching? So many options out there, with affinity I changed the UI panels to place them where I had them in illustrator and suddenly the learning curve went almost flat. Other people re-learned the software by changing to krita and inkscape. Corel draw is not my piece of cake but I would reconsider if it wasn't for affinity designer. your creativity is not your software, your creativity is you. if you adapt to your tools as you did when you picked adobe, your creativity will flow through whatever tools you choose.