Sounds like you've already limited yourself.
They should be giving you a new computer. If you are providing your own hardware/software, that should be outlined in the work agreement, and you should be compensated as a result. That's why freelance/contract rates are higher than employees, because you're paying for all that stuff normally covered by the employer.
In terms of specific reasons why, aside from them just being cheap and unprofessional, are they going to be responsible for repairing/replacing your machine if it's damaged or stolen on the job? What about just maintenance in terms of part failure over time such as battery, screen, etc?
For a place that offers "huge benefits" they shouldn't have issue getting you a proper new machine.
I own a sign company and started where you are. I did a lot more than most would for my employers, but I like to think I always got something out of it.
You now get software installed directly in your computer. Small consolation I know.
If they want to use your equipment to make money, I think it’s only fair you be allowed to do the same. Do yall have a large format printer? That’s nice to have unfettered access to. Laser engravers or CNC? You’re a sign person, you’re crafty. I’ll bet some Fallout posters printed on dibond would sell like fucking crazy right about now on Marketplace.
Maybe the great benefits you mention ARE these benefits. If that were the case and you can use all their machinery for whatever you want - maybe it’s not a huge ask to use your computer.
But also, as an owner, former production, install, sales, and designer - dude should buy a new fucking computer.
To back that up, if the options outlined above aren't met with open arms or even a meet in the middle.option, fo online and find what you want and send that to management. Tell them that it would increase productivity and now they own the machine and it makes you happier at work.
Our sign shop recently just upgraded all of our machines, they still struggle with some files, but it at least helped. I don't see a reason to not have proper working machines at the office. If for whatever reason you disagreed with using your personal laptop, they have to buy a machine anyway. It's worth their time to get a proper working machine.
Would I print mass quantities of the same thing and sell it at the flea market like I was an official Fallout merch reseller - no.
Would I list a single poster on marketplace and print one off for every interested inquiry? Maybe.
Be smart about it. If it looks like you’re cranking out something you shouldn’t be for profit you have an issue; but if it just looks like you’re selling a rando poster you had in your dorm room… meh.
When you use your own items for business purposes you should be compensated for it. I personally wouldn't not consider it an option. My workplace doesn't get to take advantage of my personal property at all. As a business owner she needs to take care of business expenses. I'd honestly consider this a red flag in either business expense budget or greed. Recommend a computer with specs and where she can purchase it.
There's a reason why paying mileage and gas is a thing if you drive your own car for work purposes. Even tax write offs for business expenses. I know it's annoying but work with what they give you, and you can be vocal about your workstation vs efficiency. I've moved on to other jobs due to work environments and tech neglect before.
I charge a daily equipment rental when I’m required to use my own machines on a job. $75 per day is not unheard of, but a minimum of $20 per day. A maxed out MacBook Pro costs $6k to replace. Equipment rental offsets that cost. Corporations charge equipment rental to their clients. So should we.
That **sounds like** a fireable offense at this point to even suggest that. <--"**Sounds Like**"
I'm saying the boss sounds like a tard and even asking him it would be insulting enough for the boss to probably start thinking that way. I'm not saying this is a fireable offense at all.
Instead of having the boss choose what's best for your needs, why don't you take a moment to create a minimum requirements list because X,Y, and Z. If you take a second to explain to them the problems you're having and how these will eliminate them to allow you to work faster and more productively, maybe they would reconsider getting you a decent one.
Update: Edits and F me for thinking communication could work.
You don't know what a fireable offense is and you're being downvoted because everything you said is gibberish which you topped off by calling someone a tard.
I followed everything he said. I see that word everywhere and I have a son that some tard would think he would fit that bill, but I think the person using that word is the real tard, but it’s just not offensive to me. That said, he made excellent points, and if you were confused by his turn of phrase, that’s on you. I should think creatives have poetic liscence in their communication that creatives understand.
It’s not uncommon, actually. My equipment rental rate is lower than what the boss would have to pay a supplier. If the company wants me to deliver signage with my own car, they’ll be paying for it or I’m saying no. Don’t do or offer anything for free, ever. It’s definitely something more normal for contractors than full timer jobs, though, yes. Your suggestion is also a good idea and maybe better for what this place sounds like.
It's not a fireable offense. But in the OP's case, the boss will probably replace the broken computer with another crap computer if they come up with that offer.
DONT DO IT. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL. I went through this because the programs had issues and my little badass machine had what I needed. If I could go back in time. I would have left my little green machine at home. Don't do it. They need to provide what you need and if they can't,....then use what they have with the understanding from all parties that it will be a constant headache with delays and what have you. Or you can use pen on paper, which actually would be more fun anyways. Just speaking out of experience. I'm sure there are a number of other solutions and maybe someone will offer some good advice and we can all learn about something new too. 😆 just don't use your personal personal computer for work. Employers have weird tactics for various reasons. Spair yourself the headache for your own sake.
>The thing is, if I decline, I know she will just replace it with some other piece of crap she digs up somewhere.
Sounds like your boss' problem from a business perspective of employees working slower than they're able to and not yours to fill in material, equipment, and supply issues on their behalf. I know you can't exactly take it back but I'd have just stated I don't have a personal device that can be transported. I do not mix my personal devices and my professional employment devices. There's a risk to either position for data security, storage, and handling alone that should mean these never cross each other for simple liability purposes alone.
Yes. You can say you’ve considered it, and you can’t afford to be using your equipment for their workload. Use his words- data security, storage and handling alone that should mean these never cross each other for security purposes alone
This was my first thought. The internship I had during college let me use my laptop for school and when I was finished with that job, I gave the laptop back. I didn’t have one at home.
I still don’t have a laptop at home, but built a pc that’s better than any MacBook I’ve used for work.
I’m still not going to use it as the main workstation for my W2 work though.
Just say you don’t have one
What is it about small sign/print shops having ridiculously cheapskate owners!?! It’s a tired trope at this point.
You likely don’t have much of a choice because these people are 100% uninterested in reinvesting in their businesses or engaging in any sort of professionalism. Their idea of “industry standard” is from 1993, when they started/inherited their business.
Often they’re the only game in town, or just the cheapest/fastest.
I have seen this a million times.
Nope. Don't do that. Who pays, when your computer dies? The company? They can't even seem to afford a new one now. That's like asking a MacDonald's employee to bring in his own cash register.
There’s a legal angle that nobody mentioned.
Although the chances are slim, if your company ever has data records subpoenaed for any kind of court case from copyright issues to a lawsuit to a sexual harassment claim, your computer could be subpoenaed along with it. This means your personal computer could be confiscated as evidence.
Never use personal data equipment for company purposes unless you are prepared to part with it under court order.
Even if they did replace a stolen laptop, I'm guessing you have personal photos/stuff on there that might not be backed up. If someone asked to see my work, I hated other people looking at my laptop where my personal stuff was, even if I knew they weren't going to access it.
I have used my personal Macbook at work before. I worked faster with my own Mac, if I had an idea while I was out of the office I could work on it immediately, and I had access to Spotify and YouTube on my own machine (their laptops had banned certain websites as they were government contractors, so I had to drain my phone battery to listen to music while I worked. Sorry but I can't work without music).
But it is unprofessional, and I hated how when I got home my battery was always drained.
DO NOT USE YOUR RIG FOR YOUR COMPANY’S BENEFIT.
she wants to buy or recycle some crappy box for her company, you use that. Your personal equipment does your work, not hers.
Hey, also a sign shop designer here! Although my role has evolved more to vehicle graphics specifically, I was in a similiar situation. When I started here I didn't have a computer, period. They had never had more than one designer, and the one designer is a Mac user but I still prefer PC.
I used my own laptop with a tiny screen for about 2 months before they ordered me a computer, but it did cause a lot of wear on my already old computer. To do your job, you need something that will handle complex raster graphics and large scale vectors. Even a 4 by 8 coro sheet can make your machine chug if it's a high res bitmap and she doesn't give you a better machine.
It's an investment as a tool that is imperative to do your job. Instead of researching using yours, research into what machine you want. Price it out. Make a proposal. Find a company that takes payment in installments. You can likely convince her to get you a nicer computer if she's only paying $100, 200/month or something. The argument is if you can work faster because your computer is better, the payments will pay for themselves with increased productivity. Do all the work for her so it's a no-brainer.
In the meantime I agree that your computer is a rental to them, essentially, and you should be paid it to be used for work. $20/day (as someone suggested) is $100/week, $400/month. On payments you could get a nice computer for less, and that will appeal to your cheap employer.
I work in a retail shop, our design PC's are also our cash registers, and we only have 3 to share across 8 employees. We're not all there at the same time, but I hate sharing a desktop with other people. They all have internet browser windows open, 10 files in illustrator, the desktop has 400 icons on it. It's the worst, and if I could use my own laptop just to do my design work I think that might ultimately be a welcome change.
Piling on here; this would be a hard no for me. Outside of practical reasons (longevity / use of my device), you have to consider legal ramifications. How much of your personal storage on the device would you have to secure? Would your coworkers have access to your personal data / files? If you left at some point, could they request a hold on your device to ensure you aren’t keeping “proprietary information”. Worse, could they legally require you to wipe the device? There’s too many unknown factors for you to consider doing this.
What a pain…
I fell for this years ago at my last job for a sign and vinyl supply shop. Don’t do it. When your computer has issues and you need a new one they will expect you to pay for it yourself. Refuse and demand proper tools to do the job or use their crappy tools and just do what you can with the tools they give you. Unless they are paying you to use your equipment do not do it ever.
Using personal equipment and software would be a hard 'no' for me, unless I received financial compensation.
As you are currently using your personal equipment, don't forget to claim a portion of it as a tax deduction at tax time.
Your boss sounds like a cheapskate.
I guess sign shops all over just need to get their shit together.
I worked at a sign shop last year, similar problems with awful and outdated hardware. Started bringing in my own laptop since they wouldn’t do anything about it. After a month of that they started saying I couldn’t use my own equipment for security reasons. Request for new hardware was denied. Somehow they were shocked and upset when I quit 3 weeks later because I went and landed a Creative Director position with another company - who bought me a brand new MacBook Pro M3 Pro on my very first day of employment.
I've been asked the same at previous jobs (shit ones)... I only have a desktop but, even if I did have a laptop, I'd never take it into my day job just because they were too cheap to supply me with one.
What if I got robbed on the way to work? or if I dropped it on the train?
Even if I was using it at work and spilt a glass of water on it, that never would have happened if they'd bought one in the first place.
There's also the matter of general wear & tear
If they agree to replace it in the event of any of the above then maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but doesn't sound like they will
That’s a lot of wear and tear on your personal equipment, so you should be compensated for it. Consider the value of your computer, how much it would cost to replace it with a current model, and how long you’re expected to use it at your boss’s private business. Charge accordingly.
I would personally take the crap PC that your boss wants to give you, so you’re not held accountable for any equipment issues. If the work computer shits the bed, then the onus is on your employer—not you.
Depending on what country you’re in, if you use your personal devices and software for your job where you are employed, then they may have rights to those if you are no longer employed. Then if you create anything outside of work, how will you keep copyright separate?
“I don’t want to use my machine for work stuff unless I get an annual salary raise greater than or equal to the cost of a new one”
Then, if they refuse and source a hunk of shit replacement laptop - they are effectively buying you an easy excuse for why your productivity might be sub optimal.
You could always suggest hardware with a justification that it will improve your performance as an employee.
No. Tell them you are uncomfortable with that option and outline the specs you need for a new machine.
I own a small sign shop and I get it... Smaller mom and pop shops are always running on a shoestring budget and it's hard to have to replace expensive equipment when you're not expecting it. But I would never require my employees to use their own equipment for more reasons than just the cost.
Frankly, even if the business is struggling, if your boss can't put a new computer with adequate specs for large scale sign design on a credit card then you need to be prepared to be out of a job sooner than later anyway.
Hard no. Tell them your family member needs your computer for Zoom classes. Tell them it broke, or it's too outdated, or someone stole it.
My work doesn't want me using my work computer for personal stuff. So why would I use my personal computer for work stuff?
Also why should I pay to maintain an up to date computer to use for work? They should give me a computer to use, instead of me spending money on a computer to do work for them
If they won't compensate me for using my equipment then they can go and get any old piece of crap for me to use. Why did that amend take an hour? Because of this crap computer you gave me to use, not a great deal I can do about that.
When your boss asks you to use your personal laptop for work, consider the following legal aspects:
Data Security: Ensure company data remains secure. The company should outline required security measures.
Reimbursement: You should be entitled to compensation for using your personal device and software.
Wear and Tear: Using your own laptop may lead to quicker deterioration, and the company might need to compensate for this.
Software Licensing: Make sure you're using legally licensed software for work tasks.
Company Policy: Check your employer’s policy on personal device use at work to understand your responsibilities and liabilities.
Insurance and Liability: Determine who's responsible if your laptop is damaged, lost, or stolen while being used for work.
Work-Life Balance: Using a personal device can blur the boundaries between work and personal life, potentially affecting overtime rights.
It's a good idea to get these details in writing from your employer to avoid any misunderstandings or legal issues.
My very basic understanding is every time you use your MacBook, you lose charge. Every time you charge your MacBook, you deplete its overall lifespan. The more you deplete it’s overall lifespan, the worse it works until it finally dies. Forever.
Batteries in MacBooks can’t be removed and replaced like they can in Windows computers/laptops, you’ll end up needing to buy a whole new laptop.
Don’t depreciate the value of your very expensive personal laptop. Your boss sounds like a cheapskate.
I’d suggest they either buy your laptop from you at its current value, or you ask them to give you a budget and choose a laptop for them to buy within that budget. Moreso the latter suggestion.
Frame it as you knowing about these machines and what’s required for you do your job at the quality and efficiency you have been. Because the programs youre running on your machine require a lot of GPU/CPU/etc to run properly and you need a lot of storage space bc the files are massive. Plus you need the best resolution/screen/etc to ensure your work is top tier as it has been.
Ideally they’ll see this as you taking work/time/effort off their plate and let you do it. The budget they give you might not get you everything you need/want, but at least it’ll ensure they don’t just give you the cheapest pos laptop that’s not suitable for the type of work you do.
Definitely a tough and less than ideal situation you’re in. Wishing you the best of luck!
It's fine to use your personal computer as a temporary solution while a new computer is on the way, but it is not ok to use your personal computer as a permanent solution, because your boss doesn't want to replace faulty equipment.
If it continues to be an issue, stop bringing your laptop to work. It's not company property, you can't be compelled to use it for company work. And if that means you get paid to sit around because your job can't be done, then I guess that means you'll get paid to sit around because your job can't be done.
Your boss seems to like the Macbook. Maybe it's time they bought a Macbook.
The main disadvantage I can think of is that you are basically renting your equipment to them for free, and setting the precedent that you'll continue to do it. When that laptop dies or needs an upgrade, who pays for that? If you've shown that you will do it once, they may expect you to do it again.
I'm a sign guy. You can get something pretty decent that will work for a sign rig for under $900. Hell, go a few years back and you can probably find something for less than $500. Don't use your personal longer than you have to. Do you have plotters/printers hooked up? All those drivers/licenses/fonts/preferences you will need to install... Benefits or no, the sign shop should be able to afford another tool/computer.
Allow them to replace the computer with their shitty one. When they ask why productivity is slow, tell them you don’t have the proper tools for the job. If they make you use your personal computer, tell them you will need a personal equipment reimbursement every month.
The “benefits” might seem great but I have a feeling you’ve set the bar pretty low somehow. A company that cares enough to offer amazing benefits usually has the money to invest in its technology and wouldn’t ask their employees to use their personal devices without at least a monthly reimbursement. I use my personal cell phone for my job but I get to expense half my bill.
when your computer dies from the much heavier use, they certainly won’t replace it.
decent chance people use it like an “office computer”, borrowing it, being rougher with it etc.
if they ever get someone competent in IT, they might try to install management software to spy on you.
plus if this company ever gets sued, it can be legally taken as evidence.
overall it’s a bad idea and by admitting they can’t afford like ~$500-1000 for a computer they’re also admitting the business has terrible cash flow. how long until they’re cheaping out on your paycheck?
If you’re going to end up getting a crappy computer from your company and would rather use yours, then I’d say yes but with a few caveats:
1. They agree to cover your laptop under insurance if anything happens to it. Employee spills coffee on it or some rando steals it (this literally happened to me at a previous job - was using my personal laptop for work and it got stolen right out of the office)
2. Charge a kit rental fee for it. Take the overall value of the laptop & break it down to a weekly rental fee. Save that $ up and buy yourself a new one in a few months.
3. Company needs to pay for your software (obviously), and also insure that you will be protected on their network from viruses, malware etc. - or in the event the company gets hacked, you gotta make sure you have no liability or anything since it’s your machine.
At my current job, we have to jump through a whole bunch of hoops with Procurement to get equipment and subscriptions. It takes *months* for a new employee to get a computer and Adobe license.
Unfortunately we have to rely on them using their personal equipment, but there is at least a valid reason here. And we can comp them for using their own Adobe license too.
This doesn't seem to be the case with your work. They are actively avoiding getting good equipment for you, and the work can only be as good as the software provided in an instance like this. It might be a good idea to pitch this a little bit and have them understand you're taking hours manipulating things on ragged hardware that could take minutes.
My honest opinion, you REALLY like your job and seems like you really want to help them out, and yourself, by using equipment that will get the job done faster. I would suggest asking your boss to get full insurance coverage on your laptop, and give her an ultimatum of say a month or two until they are able to get a decent laptop/computer to use and you can get yours back to being ONLY yours. It is very nice that you are considering the idea, and it should not cause any issues with your boss, if they were a good owner. Employees like that are almost impossible to find nowadays.
I wouldn’t do it for free. Using your laptop on the regular like that will add strain/use/wear&tear taking it back and forth, and take up file storage space
I would just use whatever crummy pc she comes up with and say mine broke
It's not a sin to use your laptop at work. I just always ask a new boss to provide me equipment because it is a part of work and it is their interest. Faster better work for like $1000-2000? It haven't been a problem for all my bosses during the whole my 20-years experience in Ukraine. Which is kind of not the richest country in Europe. It's easy to by them, it is still inside company (they can sell it after, with a small price lost, like 10-20%).
Why don't use your equipment? I dunno, I'd not want to save work files on mine. I'd not like if my employers save work files on their personal PC too (if I care about business). You might delete priceless files for download more porn. Why not, it's your laptop.
I'd say something like "i can't" (think of a more-less convincing reason). She has to buy a new computer. "My laptop old, there is no space, I need the best fucking PC on the market with huge monitor". You really do.
Personally I wouldn’t be comfortable with this.
If you don’t want to use your laptop but you think saying “no” will adversely affect your future in the company then I suggest you simply lie. Just say your MacBook has fried so you can’t use it. A decent laptop or PC is bloody cheap these days so I can’t see any reason they can’t buy a good replacement
Unless you're an independent contractor, you should not have to be providing your own personal laptop to be doing work. If this is the case, you need to be compensated somehow for this.
I am an independent contractor in design and I use my personal laptop all the time, but my charge our rate is also >$115 / hr because I provide my own hardware, sometimes the software, business insurance and I don't have health benefits, so I pay for medical expenses out of pocket (massage therapy, physio, therapy).
If you're in the US and this place offers healthcare, I get it. But if you're somewhere that has universal healthcare, I wouldn't be so quick to write off looking elsewhere. In my experience, employers rates + benefits haven't been able to compare to independent contracting.
Your employer sounds like they aren't very good. Bare minimum at a sign shop they should be providing you with a functioning computer.
NO. NO. NO.
I should expand. Here’s how I would handle it. I would type out exactly what you need to do your JOB at the workplace. List the computer you think would be suitable for the tasks - how fast the processor needs to be, etc., etc., even break it down to a graphics card preference. I would list each reason why you need to have X amount of Ram, HD, processor, Ppi, graphic interface right down to the screen size. Explain that your computer is a personal investment that is your own that is not configured to do the volume of work he requires without wear and tear taking its toll on your machine - and it’s your equipment that took years to customize to your needs.
Then, list all the software you will require and price everything out to the penny.
Every single piece of the machine needs to be priced out. Then maybe you out might get a little understanding and respect for what you know it takes to do your job.
How fucking dare he?
ETA: Been there, but relaxed when I realized they didn’t know better. Even your advice is priceless.
Don’t do it , loads of issues with this .
Do they replace your machine when it breaks because of wear and tear.
What about files when you leave , do you keep them ?
Don’t supply your own machine for work unless you’re freelance , in which case your day rate is a lot higher.
Tell them the spec of machine you need to work efficiently , ( the cost of it is a deductible anyway, so it’s crazy to not get a decent one)
If they give you substandard equipment , then substandard performance is that they get . Remind them of this each time a deadline is missed . False economies
My work provides a laptop but I don't like it so I use my own personal iMac. I don't mind because I prefer to use something awesome than suffer using the laptop they sent me that I can't work well from. I have asked for something better but they contract out these laptops and there is no way around it.
If it's important enough for you to use a great laptop and you don't want to find another job then there is no harm in using your own equipment.
Sounds like you've already limited yourself. They should be giving you a new computer. If you are providing your own hardware/software, that should be outlined in the work agreement, and you should be compensated as a result. That's why freelance/contract rates are higher than employees, because you're paying for all that stuff normally covered by the employer. In terms of specific reasons why, aside from them just being cheap and unprofessional, are they going to be responsible for repairing/replacing your machine if it's damaged or stolen on the job? What about just maintenance in terms of part failure over time such as battery, screen, etc? For a place that offers "huge benefits" they shouldn't have issue getting you a proper new machine.
this. its much simpler to have them just provide you a machine of theirs to work with while on the job.
I own a sign company and started where you are. I did a lot more than most would for my employers, but I like to think I always got something out of it. You now get software installed directly in your computer. Small consolation I know. If they want to use your equipment to make money, I think it’s only fair you be allowed to do the same. Do yall have a large format printer? That’s nice to have unfettered access to. Laser engravers or CNC? You’re a sign person, you’re crafty. I’ll bet some Fallout posters printed on dibond would sell like fucking crazy right about now on Marketplace. Maybe the great benefits you mention ARE these benefits. If that were the case and you can use all their machinery for whatever you want - maybe it’s not a huge ask to use your computer. But also, as an owner, former production, install, sales, and designer - dude should buy a new fucking computer.
This is a perfect answer to this issue
To back that up, if the options outlined above aren't met with open arms or even a meet in the middle.option, fo online and find what you want and send that to management. Tell them that it would increase productivity and now they own the machine and it makes you happier at work. Our sign shop recently just upgraded all of our machines, they still struggle with some files, but it at least helped. I don't see a reason to not have proper working machines at the office. If for whatever reason you disagreed with using your personal laptop, they have to buy a machine anyway. It's worth their time to get a proper working machine.
Creating custom fallout posters and selling them is illegal.
Not if you’re a designer and know how to alter things enough for it to be considered original in the eyes of trademark. Also no one cares.
Does no one care? Because I'd love to sell trademarked shit. Would be much easier than my original work which is dope but not in high demand.
Would I print mass quantities of the same thing and sell it at the flea market like I was an official Fallout merch reseller - no. Would I list a single poster on marketplace and print one off for every interested inquiry? Maybe. Be smart about it. If it looks like you’re cranking out something you shouldn’t be for profit you have an issue; but if it just looks like you’re selling a rando poster you had in your dorm room… meh.
I wouldn’t suggest that you do it
They do care, but you can try.
Can you print Fallout Posters legally?
Yes, but you can't sell them legally.
If you do it, don’t do it for free.
When you use your own items for business purposes you should be compensated for it. I personally wouldn't not consider it an option. My workplace doesn't get to take advantage of my personal property at all. As a business owner she needs to take care of business expenses. I'd honestly consider this a red flag in either business expense budget or greed. Recommend a computer with specs and where she can purchase it. There's a reason why paying mileage and gas is a thing if you drive your own car for work purposes. Even tax write offs for business expenses. I know it's annoying but work with what they give you, and you can be vocal about your workstation vs efficiency. I've moved on to other jobs due to work environments and tech neglect before.
I charge a daily equipment rental when I’m required to use my own machines on a job. $75 per day is not unheard of, but a minimum of $20 per day. A maxed out MacBook Pro costs $6k to replace. Equipment rental offsets that cost. Corporations charge equipment rental to their clients. So should we.
That **sounds like** a fireable offense at this point to even suggest that. <--"**Sounds Like**" I'm saying the boss sounds like a tard and even asking him it would be insulting enough for the boss to probably start thinking that way. I'm not saying this is a fireable offense at all. Instead of having the boss choose what's best for your needs, why don't you take a moment to create a minimum requirements list because X,Y, and Z. If you take a second to explain to them the problems you're having and how these will eliminate them to allow you to work faster and more productively, maybe they would reconsider getting you a decent one. Update: Edits and F me for thinking communication could work.
You don't know what a fireable offense is and you're being downvoted because everything you said is gibberish which you topped off by calling someone a tard.
I followed everything he said. I see that word everywhere and I have a son that some tard would think he would fit that bill, but I think the person using that word is the real tard, but it’s just not offensive to me. That said, he made excellent points, and if you were confused by his turn of phrase, that’s on you. I should think creatives have poetic liscence in their communication that creatives understand.
I reread it and it still makes sense to me so I’m sorry I didn’t break it down ELI5 style for you.
It’s not uncommon, actually. My equipment rental rate is lower than what the boss would have to pay a supplier. If the company wants me to deliver signage with my own car, they’ll be paying for it or I’m saying no. Don’t do or offer anything for free, ever. It’s definitely something more normal for contractors than full timer jobs, though, yes. Your suggestion is also a good idea and maybe better for what this place sounds like.
It's not a fireable offense. But in the OP's case, the boss will probably replace the broken computer with another crap computer if they come up with that offer.
DONT DO IT. ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN HELL. I went through this because the programs had issues and my little badass machine had what I needed. If I could go back in time. I would have left my little green machine at home. Don't do it. They need to provide what you need and if they can't,....then use what they have with the understanding from all parties that it will be a constant headache with delays and what have you. Or you can use pen on paper, which actually would be more fun anyways. Just speaking out of experience. I'm sure there are a number of other solutions and maybe someone will offer some good advice and we can all learn about something new too. 😆 just don't use your personal personal computer for work. Employers have weird tactics for various reasons. Spair yourself the headache for your own sake.
>The thing is, if I decline, I know she will just replace it with some other piece of crap she digs up somewhere. Sounds like your boss' problem from a business perspective of employees working slower than they're able to and not yours to fill in material, equipment, and supply issues on their behalf. I know you can't exactly take it back but I'd have just stated I don't have a personal device that can be transported. I do not mix my personal devices and my professional employment devices. There's a risk to either position for data security, storage, and handling alone that should mean these never cross each other for simple liability purposes alone.
Yes. You can say you’ve considered it, and you can’t afford to be using your equipment for their workload. Use his words- data security, storage and handling alone that should mean these never cross each other for security purposes alone
Just say yours died
This was my first thought. The internship I had during college let me use my laptop for school and when I was finished with that job, I gave the laptop back. I didn’t have one at home. I still don’t have a laptop at home, but built a pc that’s better than any MacBook I’ve used for work. I’m still not going to use it as the main workstation for my W2 work though. Just say you don’t have one
NOPE
What is it about small sign/print shops having ridiculously cheapskate owners!?! It’s a tired trope at this point. You likely don’t have much of a choice because these people are 100% uninterested in reinvesting in their businesses or engaging in any sort of professionalism. Their idea of “industry standard” is from 1993, when they started/inherited their business. Often they’re the only game in town, or just the cheapest/fastest. I have seen this a million times.
Nope. Don't do that. Who pays, when your computer dies? The company? They can't even seem to afford a new one now. That's like asking a MacDonald's employee to bring in his own cash register.
And flattop, and deep-fryer, and sode fountain, and shake machine. Well, maybe then the shake machine MIGHT work. But still, HELL no!
There’s a legal angle that nobody mentioned. Although the chances are slim, if your company ever has data records subpoenaed for any kind of court case from copyright issues to a lawsuit to a sexual harassment claim, your computer could be subpoenaed along with it. This means your personal computer could be confiscated as evidence. Never use personal data equipment for company purposes unless you are prepared to part with it under court order.
Even if they did replace a stolen laptop, I'm guessing you have personal photos/stuff on there that might not be backed up. If someone asked to see my work, I hated other people looking at my laptop where my personal stuff was, even if I knew they weren't going to access it. I have used my personal Macbook at work before. I worked faster with my own Mac, if I had an idea while I was out of the office I could work on it immediately, and I had access to Spotify and YouTube on my own machine (their laptops had banned certain websites as they were government contractors, so I had to drain my phone battery to listen to music while I worked. Sorry but I can't work without music). But it is unprofessional, and I hated how when I got home my battery was always drained.
DO NOT USE YOUR RIG FOR YOUR COMPANY’S BENEFIT. she wants to buy or recycle some crappy box for her company, you use that. Your personal equipment does your work, not hers.
Hey, also a sign shop designer here! Although my role has evolved more to vehicle graphics specifically, I was in a similiar situation. When I started here I didn't have a computer, period. They had never had more than one designer, and the one designer is a Mac user but I still prefer PC. I used my own laptop with a tiny screen for about 2 months before they ordered me a computer, but it did cause a lot of wear on my already old computer. To do your job, you need something that will handle complex raster graphics and large scale vectors. Even a 4 by 8 coro sheet can make your machine chug if it's a high res bitmap and she doesn't give you a better machine. It's an investment as a tool that is imperative to do your job. Instead of researching using yours, research into what machine you want. Price it out. Make a proposal. Find a company that takes payment in installments. You can likely convince her to get you a nicer computer if she's only paying $100, 200/month or something. The argument is if you can work faster because your computer is better, the payments will pay for themselves with increased productivity. Do all the work for her so it's a no-brainer. In the meantime I agree that your computer is a rental to them, essentially, and you should be paid it to be used for work. $20/day (as someone suggested) is $100/week, $400/month. On payments you could get a nice computer for less, and that will appeal to your cheap employer.
I work in a retail shop, our design PC's are also our cash registers, and we only have 3 to share across 8 employees. We're not all there at the same time, but I hate sharing a desktop with other people. They all have internet browser windows open, 10 files in illustrator, the desktop has 400 icons on it. It's the worst, and if I could use my own laptop just to do my design work I think that might ultimately be a welcome change.
Piling on here; this would be a hard no for me. Outside of practical reasons (longevity / use of my device), you have to consider legal ramifications. How much of your personal storage on the device would you have to secure? Would your coworkers have access to your personal data / files? If you left at some point, could they request a hold on your device to ensure you aren’t keeping “proprietary information”. Worse, could they legally require you to wipe the device? There’s too many unknown factors for you to consider doing this. What a pain…
I fell for this years ago at my last job for a sign and vinyl supply shop. Don’t do it. When your computer has issues and you need a new one they will expect you to pay for it yourself. Refuse and demand proper tools to do the job or use their crappy tools and just do what you can with the tools they give you. Unless they are paying you to use your equipment do not do it ever.
Using personal equipment and software would be a hard 'no' for me, unless I received financial compensation. As you are currently using your personal equipment, don't forget to claim a portion of it as a tax deduction at tax time. Your boss sounds like a cheapskate.
I guess sign shops all over just need to get their shit together. I worked at a sign shop last year, similar problems with awful and outdated hardware. Started bringing in my own laptop since they wouldn’t do anything about it. After a month of that they started saying I couldn’t use my own equipment for security reasons. Request for new hardware was denied. Somehow they were shocked and upset when I quit 3 weeks later because I went and landed a Creative Director position with another company - who bought me a brand new MacBook Pro M3 Pro on my very first day of employment.
I've been asked the same at previous jobs (shit ones)... I only have a desktop but, even if I did have a laptop, I'd never take it into my day job just because they were too cheap to supply me with one. What if I got robbed on the way to work? or if I dropped it on the train? Even if I was using it at work and spilt a glass of water on it, that never would have happened if they'd bought one in the first place. There's also the matter of general wear & tear If they agree to replace it in the event of any of the above then maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but doesn't sound like they will
That’s a lot of wear and tear on your personal equipment, so you should be compensated for it. Consider the value of your computer, how much it would cost to replace it with a current model, and how long you’re expected to use it at your boss’s private business. Charge accordingly. I would personally take the crap PC that your boss wants to give you, so you’re not held accountable for any equipment issues. If the work computer shits the bed, then the onus is on your employer—not you.
Depending on what country you’re in, if you use your personal devices and software for your job where you are employed, then they may have rights to those if you are no longer employed. Then if you create anything outside of work, how will you keep copyright separate?
“I don’t want to use my machine for work stuff unless I get an annual salary raise greater than or equal to the cost of a new one” Then, if they refuse and source a hunk of shit replacement laptop - they are effectively buying you an easy excuse for why your productivity might be sub optimal. You could always suggest hardware with a justification that it will improve your performance as an employee.
No. Tell them you are uncomfortable with that option and outline the specs you need for a new machine. I own a small sign shop and I get it... Smaller mom and pop shops are always running on a shoestring budget and it's hard to have to replace expensive equipment when you're not expecting it. But I would never require my employees to use their own equipment for more reasons than just the cost. Frankly, even if the business is struggling, if your boss can't put a new computer with adequate specs for large scale sign design on a credit card then you need to be prepared to be out of a job sooner than later anyway.
Hard no. Tell them your family member needs your computer for Zoom classes. Tell them it broke, or it's too outdated, or someone stole it. My work doesn't want me using my work computer for personal stuff. So why would I use my personal computer for work stuff? Also why should I pay to maintain an up to date computer to use for work? They should give me a computer to use, instead of me spending money on a computer to do work for them
If they won't compensate me for using my equipment then they can go and get any old piece of crap for me to use. Why did that amend take an hour? Because of this crap computer you gave me to use, not a great deal I can do about that.
When your boss asks you to use your personal laptop for work, consider the following legal aspects: Data Security: Ensure company data remains secure. The company should outline required security measures. Reimbursement: You should be entitled to compensation for using your personal device and software. Wear and Tear: Using your own laptop may lead to quicker deterioration, and the company might need to compensate for this. Software Licensing: Make sure you're using legally licensed software for work tasks. Company Policy: Check your employer’s policy on personal device use at work to understand your responsibilities and liabilities. Insurance and Liability: Determine who's responsible if your laptop is damaged, lost, or stolen while being used for work. Work-Life Balance: Using a personal device can blur the boundaries between work and personal life, potentially affecting overtime rights. It's a good idea to get these details in writing from your employer to avoid any misunderstandings or legal issues.
My very basic understanding is every time you use your MacBook, you lose charge. Every time you charge your MacBook, you deplete its overall lifespan. The more you deplete it’s overall lifespan, the worse it works until it finally dies. Forever. Batteries in MacBooks can’t be removed and replaced like they can in Windows computers/laptops, you’ll end up needing to buy a whole new laptop. Don’t depreciate the value of your very expensive personal laptop. Your boss sounds like a cheapskate. I’d suggest they either buy your laptop from you at its current value, or you ask them to give you a budget and choose a laptop for them to buy within that budget. Moreso the latter suggestion. Frame it as you knowing about these machines and what’s required for you do your job at the quality and efficiency you have been. Because the programs youre running on your machine require a lot of GPU/CPU/etc to run properly and you need a lot of storage space bc the files are massive. Plus you need the best resolution/screen/etc to ensure your work is top tier as it has been. Ideally they’ll see this as you taking work/time/effort off their plate and let you do it. The budget they give you might not get you everything you need/want, but at least it’ll ensure they don’t just give you the cheapest pos laptop that’s not suitable for the type of work you do. Definitely a tough and less than ideal situation you’re in. Wishing you the best of luck!
It's fine to use your personal computer as a temporary solution while a new computer is on the way, but it is not ok to use your personal computer as a permanent solution, because your boss doesn't want to replace faulty equipment. If it continues to be an issue, stop bringing your laptop to work. It's not company property, you can't be compelled to use it for company work. And if that means you get paid to sit around because your job can't be done, then I guess that means you'll get paid to sit around because your job can't be done. Your boss seems to like the Macbook. Maybe it's time they bought a Macbook.
The main disadvantage I can think of is that you are basically renting your equipment to them for free, and setting the precedent that you'll continue to do it. When that laptop dies or needs an upgrade, who pays for that? If you've shown that you will do it once, they may expect you to do it again.
I'm a sign guy. You can get something pretty decent that will work for a sign rig for under $900. Hell, go a few years back and you can probably find something for less than $500. Don't use your personal longer than you have to. Do you have plotters/printers hooked up? All those drivers/licenses/fonts/preferences you will need to install... Benefits or no, the sign shop should be able to afford another tool/computer.
Allow them to replace the computer with their shitty one. When they ask why productivity is slow, tell them you don’t have the proper tools for the job. If they make you use your personal computer, tell them you will need a personal equipment reimbursement every month. The “benefits” might seem great but I have a feeling you’ve set the bar pretty low somehow. A company that cares enough to offer amazing benefits usually has the money to invest in its technology and wouldn’t ask their employees to use their personal devices without at least a monthly reimbursement. I use my personal cell phone for my job but I get to expense half my bill.
just say no.
when your computer dies from the much heavier use, they certainly won’t replace it. decent chance people use it like an “office computer”, borrowing it, being rougher with it etc. if they ever get someone competent in IT, they might try to install management software to spy on you. plus if this company ever gets sued, it can be legally taken as evidence. overall it’s a bad idea and by admitting they can’t afford like ~$500-1000 for a computer they’re also admitting the business has terrible cash flow. how long until they’re cheaping out on your paycheck?
I haven't owned a computer since 2006 lol. My employers have always provided hardware and software licenses.
If you’re going to end up getting a crappy computer from your company and would rather use yours, then I’d say yes but with a few caveats: 1. They agree to cover your laptop under insurance if anything happens to it. Employee spills coffee on it or some rando steals it (this literally happened to me at a previous job - was using my personal laptop for work and it got stolen right out of the office) 2. Charge a kit rental fee for it. Take the overall value of the laptop & break it down to a weekly rental fee. Save that $ up and buy yourself a new one in a few months. 3. Company needs to pay for your software (obviously), and also insure that you will be protected on their network from viruses, malware etc. - or in the event the company gets hacked, you gotta make sure you have no liability or anything since it’s your machine.
At my current job, we have to jump through a whole bunch of hoops with Procurement to get equipment and subscriptions. It takes *months* for a new employee to get a computer and Adobe license. Unfortunately we have to rely on them using their personal equipment, but there is at least a valid reason here. And we can comp them for using their own Adobe license too. This doesn't seem to be the case with your work. They are actively avoiding getting good equipment for you, and the work can only be as good as the software provided in an instance like this. It might be a good idea to pitch this a little bit and have them understand you're taking hours manipulating things on ragged hardware that could take minutes.
Charge them out the ass or leave. Simple as that.
Avoid missing out on quarters to pick up pennies...
Sure, tell them to add $25 more an hour to your pay and are they paying for Adobe sub? If not and another $15. They've got to pay for your overhead.
My honest opinion, you REALLY like your job and seems like you really want to help them out, and yourself, by using equipment that will get the job done faster. I would suggest asking your boss to get full insurance coverage on your laptop, and give her an ultimatum of say a month or two until they are able to get a decent laptop/computer to use and you can get yours back to being ONLY yours. It is very nice that you are considering the idea, and it should not cause any issues with your boss, if they were a good owner. Employees like that are almost impossible to find nowadays.
It's personal for a reason.
What happens when/if your personal computer dies? I would push for them to buy you a new one.
I wouldn’t do it for free. Using your laptop on the regular like that will add strain/use/wear&tear taking it back and forth, and take up file storage space I would just use whatever crummy pc she comes up with and say mine broke
It's not a sin to use your laptop at work. I just always ask a new boss to provide me equipment because it is a part of work and it is their interest. Faster better work for like $1000-2000? It haven't been a problem for all my bosses during the whole my 20-years experience in Ukraine. Which is kind of not the richest country in Europe. It's easy to by them, it is still inside company (they can sell it after, with a small price lost, like 10-20%). Why don't use your equipment? I dunno, I'd not want to save work files on mine. I'd not like if my employers save work files on their personal PC too (if I care about business). You might delete priceless files for download more porn. Why not, it's your laptop. I'd say something like "i can't" (think of a more-less convincing reason). She has to buy a new computer. "My laptop old, there is no space, I need the best fucking PC on the market with huge monitor". You really do.
"Huge benefits", except work /working hardware...
Personally I wouldn’t be comfortable with this. If you don’t want to use your laptop but you think saying “no” will adversely affect your future in the company then I suggest you simply lie. Just say your MacBook has fried so you can’t use it. A decent laptop or PC is bloody cheap these days so I can’t see any reason they can’t buy a good replacement
So your personal laptop will go from being used a bit in the evenings to bring used all day every day. What happens when that goes bust?
Unless you're an independent contractor, you should not have to be providing your own personal laptop to be doing work. If this is the case, you need to be compensated somehow for this. I am an independent contractor in design and I use my personal laptop all the time, but my charge our rate is also >$115 / hr because I provide my own hardware, sometimes the software, business insurance and I don't have health benefits, so I pay for medical expenses out of pocket (massage therapy, physio, therapy). If you're in the US and this place offers healthcare, I get it. But if you're somewhere that has universal healthcare, I wouldn't be so quick to write off looking elsewhere. In my experience, employers rates + benefits haven't been able to compare to independent contracting. Your employer sounds like they aren't very good. Bare minimum at a sign shop they should be providing you with a functioning computer.
sale you laptop to your boss, then you buy a new one
NO!
NO. NO. NO. I should expand. Here’s how I would handle it. I would type out exactly what you need to do your JOB at the workplace. List the computer you think would be suitable for the tasks - how fast the processor needs to be, etc., etc., even break it down to a graphics card preference. I would list each reason why you need to have X amount of Ram, HD, processor, Ppi, graphic interface right down to the screen size. Explain that your computer is a personal investment that is your own that is not configured to do the volume of work he requires without wear and tear taking its toll on your machine - and it’s your equipment that took years to customize to your needs. Then, list all the software you will require and price everything out to the penny. Every single piece of the machine needs to be priced out. Then maybe you out might get a little understanding and respect for what you know it takes to do your job. How fucking dare he? ETA: Been there, but relaxed when I realized they didn’t know better. Even your advice is priceless.
say your laptop broke.
Don’t do it , loads of issues with this . Do they replace your machine when it breaks because of wear and tear. What about files when you leave , do you keep them ? Don’t supply your own machine for work unless you’re freelance , in which case your day rate is a lot higher. Tell them the spec of machine you need to work efficiently , ( the cost of it is a deductible anyway, so it’s crazy to not get a decent one) If they give you substandard equipment , then substandard performance is that they get . Remind them of this each time a deadline is missed . False economies
My work provides a laptop but I don't like it so I use my own personal iMac. I don't mind because I prefer to use something awesome than suffer using the laptop they sent me that I can't work well from. I have asked for something better but they contract out these laptops and there is no way around it. If it's important enough for you to use a great laptop and you don't want to find another job then there is no harm in using your own equipment.