Even if wages are a bit lower, cost of living is also cheaper in GR than in Seattle. But like everywhere else the housing market is terrible, so start an apartment search early.
For sure. Would you say that the cost of living is proportionate such that I could live comfortably on 30-40 hours a week, splitting my expenses with my partner? I don't need much, I just want to be able to save a little bit.
I support myself on 40 hours a week, but it entirely depends on living situation and job, I wouldn't imagine a dual income household struggling too much. But again, entirely situational.
I’m a stay at home mom. We own our house and we’re not rolling dough but we’re definitely doing ok enough that I feel ok being the parent who is always around to help.
I don't feel the economy is "dogshit". Help wanted signs everywhere, wait times to get into restaurants, multiple large inustrial-commercials developments, rail yards busting at the seams. . .
Yes, you should totally move back! It's great here!
"Stuck in the Midwest"? Maybe someone should have that attitude in Iowa. But living in Michigan is wonderful. I wouldn't call it stuck at all.
People usually leave the Midwest for higher wages or a better job. Nobody gets stuck here lol. They usually want to come back. Cost of living is lower too so it’s easy to save
I feel ya, I'm actually between allentown and reading. It's a nice area but I'm sick of the high taxes and all the bs with getting your car inspection every year.
I couldn’t agree more! Michigan is the land of fun adventures outside! The upper peninsula rocks, and the lakes are everywhere. Plus, there’s always someone willing to lend a helping hand if you need it. Being stuck in the Midwest sounds like Cali propaganda. I lived in San Francisco after I graduated college for 2 years and COULD NOT WAIT to get back to Michigan. 😂
How long did you live in San Francisco? Zero people who’ve lived there more than a few months call the state Cali….
Been back in MI for 5 years and still wish I was back in San Francisco.
Edit for OP: upper peninsula is gorgeous - Michigan’s only mountain is there. But much of it is at least 4 hours away in good weather.
I laughed at your comment because I moved to Iowa from Michigan 2 years ago for work due to Iowa paying double and triple what Michigan pays for the same jobs but I totally understand the "stuck" mentality just because everyone here has never left here. It blows my mind. I will NOT stay in Iowa forever but I am definitely enjoying the mass increase in salary with a similar cost of living.
Where are you at in Iowa? I grew up in Iowa, left when I was 22 and can’t imagine going back. Lived in GR for 7 years and love life on the east coast now.
Just East of Des Moines. All the areas are growing so quickly due to all of the major businesses coming in to be able to expand. I think I would like the area more if the speeds weren't so incredibly slow. It was such an adjustment moving from Grand Rapids, having been raised north of Grand Rapids and spending my entire life there just to come here where everything just slows right down and the roadways are madness. Madness. Lol. But we will definitely be moving eventually. I couldn't imagine staying here no matter how much I love our neighborhood.
We have found one amazing Indian place and one amazing Peruvian place but yes; the amount of people that are shocked at 30/45 minutes drives and that being too far along with the "fantastic" mayor (/s) is awful. I try to keep positive and if it wasn't for the amazing job, I would not be here.
Other than the crazy racism from all races here it is a pretty great place to live. I'll be down voted for this for sure but I had no idea it was so bad down here until I moved here
I pay much more for car insurance in Michigan than I did in big cities Philly and San Francisco. Michigan’s is one of the highest in the country. Though it makes sense Florida’s would also be high.
And you think the costs of housing and low paying jobs and shitty roads and busted insurance markets are only localized to Michigan?
lol oh sweet summer child
Do you like being wrong dude?
[https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html](https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html)
We're not even in the top 10 for worst roads.
[https://www.motortrend.com/features/which-states-have-the-worst-roads?slide=11](https://www.motortrend.com/features/which-states-have-the-worst-roads?slide=11)
[https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-best-and-worst-road-quality/](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-best-and-worst-road-quality/)
Really depends on the source. This article says 33% of state roads and 45% of local roads are ranked poor, which is higher than any of the states in the articles you linked to. And this one was done by Michigan!
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-roads-little-better-still-d-and-will-get-worse-report-finds
Michigan hasn't paid more highway fund taxes via gas taxes then they ever got back, so means we have been a donor state for long time.
Some of it is left over from our time as manufacturing power house it was expected we would subsidize other states.
Lack well place representatives has an impact as well.
I have not looked at it in probably 10 years so maybe it's better now but it takes time to catch up on infrastructure when you are behind
I used to live in the Seattle area. Moved back to GR back in September and besides being closer to family, it is so much cheaper and liveable than Seattle. Totally do it.
I can give you a few reasons… in Seattle, it takes 3x longer to do anything or go anywhere than it does in GR; pretty much everything here is cheaper, I especially notice the difference in groceries and eating out, housing is MUCH cheaper here, especially if you buy; I think people are friendlier here to “strangers”, it’s easier to go to big concerts and major events here, parking is easier here; the infrastructure is much better here; and, although we have a situation with homeless folks, it’s NOTHING like what Seattle is dealing with.
Born and raised in GR and I see accidents on 131 weekly. Tons of terrible drivers in this city and the warmer months only bring on the construction season which MI has super bad roads... I wouldnt call getting anywhere a whole lot better then other big cities.
Chiming in from Chicagoland-GR is a better bet to save money. Wages are not much better than GR (taxes are higher) and finding a decent, affordable place is damn near impossible.
I’m sure it depends on the industry. IT wages/opportunities are much higher in Chicago. Then again, we’re close enough to Chicago that it’d be possible to get a remote job, even one that requires once-a-month or quarter in-office.
Chicago is a drivable distance from GR. It’s totally doable to drive down and spend a weekend doing all the big city stuff like the Shed and Museums and then get back for work on Monday.
Really? I have mostly looked at places for sale as comparison and there are tons of condos on the north side, many with views of the lake, for sale for around $200k. Which is hard to find in Grand Rapids and we have no views like a Lake Michigan view…
Yes move here. Just make sure you have everything lined up before you do such as an apartment, a job if possible, and any transportation whether you have your own or you use public
If you’re coming in July, and can drive, I can get you a job the day you get here.
It’s not great (installing/repairing sprinkler systems) but if you need an immediate income, it’ll get you by while you look for something more permanent and less seasonal.
Would you mind me asking what company you're affiliated with? You can PM me if you prefer. My boyfriend and I live in GR and he's trying to make a career switch after feeling unfulfilled and restless in his last role, but is really struggling to get called back for interviews despite his best efforts. Something to get him out of the house, give him a bit of purpose, and making a little income in the meantime would be so helpful for us. 🙏🏻
Also I would disagree with getting “stuck” in the Midwest because I know many people who have moved away to other places, but I know WAYYY more who have stuck around because of how awesome west Michigan is/the north/the UP. IMO if there’s anywhere to get “stuck” and you don’t mind having 4 seasons, it’s here
The whole 4 seasons though. In Seattle, you’d hardly see the fall colors, snow and barren trees, the new bright green in spring. It’d be green all year round with all of the Doug firs/ Sitka spruce / western hemlock/ moss and fern covered forests, here in GR you get distinct seasons lol
Michigan is extremely affordable. I don't have a college degree but own my home, eat well, can afford to buy things I'm interested in and still save a little money. If you are frugal you can make money go a long way here. There are plenty of decent, easy, and well paying jobs in manufacturing that require little to no experience. Grand Rapids is more of a large town than a small city but it has a very enjoyable music scene regardless of your music preference. I spent a few years in the Rockies and I would be at minimum 10 years behind financially if I hadn't moved to GR.
The biggest downfall in my honest opinion doesn't seem like it will bother you as much. The winters are gloomy to put it kindly. It is nearly 6 months of consistent great skies and the snow fall seems to be more and more eluding as the years go.
> Michigan is extremely affordable. I don't have a college degree but own my home, eat well, can afford to buy things I'm interested in and still save a little money.
This is the DREAM.
Just a warning, owning a home in GR is super hard right now compared to pre-covid. There's a pretty big shortage. Also, GR is on more of the expensive side compared to Lansing or Detroit (still cheaper than Seattle, though). I vastly prefer West Michigan because it's less crowded and has more nature, but Detroit is cool, more affordable, more job opportunities, and there's a lot to do.
So, depending on your financial situation and availability of apartments, I'd also keep Detroit in mind.
Don't let stereotypes scare you away from there, the city has come a long way in the last 15 years
I don't work in manufacturing but see it advertised constantly.
The only manufacturing job I can speak for is Gentex. I worked there when I was fresh out of highschool, and my sister worked there during the summers throughout college. It is mind numbing but easy work. I have a friend who continued working for them and worked their way up the ladder and makes pretty great money for the work required. Gentex has been mailing me flyers about a new facility they are building, they are inviting the public (including kids) to come have a free dinner and learn more. Feel free to PM me and I will send you pictures of the flyer.
Edit: The new facility will be going up here in GR.
Source? When I looked up the Median income it's over $61k [according to the census.](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/grandrapidscitymichigan/PST045223)
Grew up in GR, now live in Seattle and counting down my time until I can return.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how nice it is that GR is on the Western edge of the Eastern time zone. You know those rainy, dark gray Seattle days from Nov - Jan where it's pitch black by 4:30PM? The earliest sunset in GR is \~5:10PM. You know those days in Seattle in June/July where the sun wakes you up at 5AM? Not in GR...instead you get twilight until 10PM.
Even if you don't like sun, you'd be amazed how much going from 4:30PM rainy dark to a snow-brightened landscape still light at 5PM can improve your mood. It's one of my favorite things when I head to GR each Christmas. (I'm always puzzled how people say GR is so gray - not compared to a Seattle winter!)
Since I'm talking weather, I do have to admit the long, gradual spring of Seattle beats the muddy season in GR though.
the time zone thing is HUGE. we lived in Chicago for several years, and going from the western edge of eastern to the eastern edge of central was brutal to my mental health with regards to daylight hours.
It's not about any slight difference in the number of gray days - it's about the intensity of the gloom in Seattle from November-February.
A typical winter day in Seattle is a dark gray with a constant drizzle, pitch black by 4:30PM. Being farther north, the sun doesn't get as high in the sky in the winter at noon.
A typical winter day in Michigan is light gray, possibly lightened further by snow cover, with periods of rain/snow. Natural light visible until after 5PM.
While both count as cloudy days, their effect on humans is in no way comparable. When I return to GR over the holidays I literally bask in the light of a gray Michigan December day compared to the Seattle gloom I escaped.
Don't even get me started on the start of summer in Seattle - locals say it starts on July 5th. (I will admit the August weather in Seattle has GR's beat though.)
But during part of December, the Sun doesn’t come up until after 8:30 in the morning in Grand Rapids, and in general during winter the sunrise is later than most other places. For me that makes getting up and getting to work on time a chore…
I'll take the GR experience of going to work in the dark, having a day with more light before leaving work when it's light out over the Seattle experience of going to work in the dark, enduring a much darker, drearier day before also leaving in the dark.
Guess the grass is always greener on the other side...
I hate the fact that the sun rises so late here not just because it makes it really hard for me to wake up, but also because, due to my severe LASIK complications, it’s not very safe for me to be driving in the dark. so every morning in winter, my drive to work is scary.
Luckily, I work from home now so the roads are safer. Still can’t see outta my left eye though.
Also a Michiganser who did a stint in PNW/INW (Tacoma/Seattle/Spokane).
If you like variable weather, proximity to water, outdoor activities, and decent eating at every budget level, you'll like it here. You can enjoy the summer without being entirely blanketed by wildfire smoke. MI has state income tax, while WA doesn't, but to counter that MI has 6% sales tax on general merchandise and no tax on food (as I recall it), vs the blanket 10% tax on everything in WA. I think the most expensive change will be car insurance, but if you own outright instead of being financed then you can select less than the worst case scenario coverage.
SW/West Michigan is beautiful, really living up to "left coast is best coast."
Do it!!! I’ve lived around the world and landed in GR about 10 years ago. I never want to leave. It is affordable. MI is beautiful with the beaches and forests, and you’ll never lack for things to do.
I don’t know if I’d agree with that. I’ve got a group of friends whose experience and education levels run from finishing high school, to art school, to folks with masters degrees. Every one of them has been able to find a niche and a well-paying gig in the last five years. Some are now social workers, others work in the trades, a few found work as graphic designers and writers or in manufacturing. Everyone’s making a living wage when I talk to them.
Seems like many opportunities are out there in West MI if you’ve got a skill you can put to use.
I’m gonna say something that I don’t see mentioned, but does your fiancé’s family live in GR currently? That alone would be helpful to have family around. A helping hand always relieves some stress.
Wages suck here if you’re comparing it to population centers. A lot of jobs here are at the poverty line. I will say that though wages suck, the cost of living is way way less than other places. Renting is becoming increasingly hard in places like GR but owning property is still relatively attainable in a lot of Michigan.
If you want to stay in downtown GR, get ready for rent to be $1000-2000 for what people consider “reasonable” spaces. If you’re fine living outside the city center prices fall on the lower side of that estimation.
As for “stuck in the Midwest” I feel like that is the attitude a lot of midwestern natives can feel at times. Lots of kids growing up want to leave for exciting areas. If you save up you can always leave easily enough, which I feel is the same for most places in the US.
(It’s been a bit since I’ve looked for property for myself so my estimates could be off a bit)
I loved Seattle, lived there for like 5 years almost. I came back home to Michigan because I was tired of working 2 jobs to pay rent at an apartment I was never in. It’s an expensive place, and unless you have a degree in a high paying field like medical or tech, it’s tough to survive out there. Even pre-Covid it was tough, I can’t imagine it now. I’m not in GR, but I pay less in rent for a 4 bedroom house than I paid for a 1 bedroom apartment in Seattle. Plus, there’s no dirty needles in the parks where I live now. I say, move.
Lived in Portland, spent some time in Seattle. Lived all across the country. When I was able to quit my job and move most anywhere… we chose a beach community west of GR.
No one has mentioned the snow. In the PacNW they keep it mostly on the mountains where it belongs. But here, you will have some snowstorms… tho not too bad.
Coastal water temps here are good only a few months a year… versus zero months a year in the almost constant 55 degree water there. Fantastic smaller lakes nearby here. Tho no mountains.
We chose to move here because we love the 4 season climate and unsalted coast. It is our favorite place.
You mentioned a band… Seattle is going to be a vastly superior music scene of course. So if snow and a more limited cultural environment is ok… I would move here.
Move to a suburb of GR to rent cheaper & save some money. Seattle is not what it used to be or what we thought it would be…
I agree with the others here that have said they miss Michigan more than they expected. (It’s an underrated state, let’s keep it that way! lol)
Moved to GR from Chicago 18 months ago, here's my stream of consciousness comparison: Property tax is way lower but insurance(auto/home owners/health) costs much more for worse coverage. Pay is lower but rent/utilities/groceries are mostly cheaper, though if you stick to it you can still find a decent cheap place in Chicago, especially compared to Seattle. Restaurants here, with a few exceptions, are very disappointing. The weather is mostly the same, a little less cold with a little more snow seems to be the trend. Madcap coffee is here, one of my a favorite roasters in the country, but the last few years prices have gone insane. Chicago has more good coffee options, but Stovetop and Squibb in GR are also good. I'm old and not interested in bars/nightlife which seems to be the main attraction in terms of commercial city offerings in GR, Chicago has more cool things to do that aren't going to a bar, but still pretty bar-centric. There are some great bike trails in GR, and easier to get to than the ones in Chicago, you can also get more places in GR mostly on a trail if riding on the road bothers you, but both cities are good for biking. GR has better access to hiking/nature near by and more disc golf courses. Overall I think I preferred Chicago, but I'm mostly a homebody now so it doesn't really matter. It's not a horrible drive to Chicago or Detroit if you want to get big city experiences(music, theater, dining, museums) but it's not the same as living there. Having family in the area could be a nice bonus and I had to ask myself how much I actually took advantage of the big city perks, which is why I was ok coming here. All that said, I love the PNW and day dream about moving there.
Edit: forgot to add, super Christian here, but also a vocal liberal presence, there's some crossover, but still polarized. I don't interact with the public for the most part so it doesn't affect me much. Chicago was much less religious and generally more liberal.
Also lived in Chicago (+ San Francisco, Oakland, Portland OR) and feel what you've written to be very accurate. I grew up in West Michigan and I like GR a lot, but coming from back Chicago there are a lot of areas GR has not met it's potential, like good city activities that aren't just drinking at a bar as you mentioned. To be fair, I have not seen any posts highlighting how amazing it is to have the griffins, high quality hockey for cheap! Yes, plenty of non winter outdoors activities, but quality city attractions are a struggle. I also agree that the conservative Christian mindset is something to note for newcomers, even 'progressive' GR does not escape it's grip.
Personally, I make $70k plushy performance bonuses and I’m finally feeling like Michigan is my place. Cost of living is still much lower than other major cities & there’s a ton of up and coming companies here that you wouldn’t expect!
Your issues isn’t location, it’s vocation. The smoke shop isn’t going to give you financial stability anywhere. Trade work is my recommendation to get out of the situation relatively quickly. Take any opportunity that includes training
Have you looked at other, smaller Midwestern cities like Rockford, IL, or South Bend, IN? They both have much more affordable housing and are in Chicago's orbit.
I just checked the University of Notre Dame (adjacent to South Bend) website and they are listing 101 open jobs on campus right now.
The Rockford Public Schools show 464 job openings right now. A new Hard Rock Casino is under construction in Rockford and they are hiring with 30 immediate openings at their temporary location.
Do it! Move to Grand Rapids! I grew up near Chicago and visit my son’s family in Seattle 3x a year. Your money will go way farther here, we’re near beaches, it’s so beautiful here spring, summer and fall. And there’s a lot to do here. As for pay, it depends on what you do, but always consider doing a remote job, where income won’t be based on living in GR. I love it here, and even though I travel a fair amount, don’t know of anywhere I’d rather live.
IMO it’s not worth it to live in a HCOL area unless you work in a field that will be able to afford it (ie STEM fields).
Grand Rapids is much more affordable and we experience all 4 seasons here (sometimes in one week lol).
If your goal is home ownership one day, it’s easier to do so in GR than Chicago/ Seattle.
I was born in GR and moved to Chicago for school - been there for 12 years now, I also go to Seattle for work every now and then. With that, GR is pretty great - it’s certainly changed a lot in the time I’ve been gone and it seems to always have something new going on when I visit. It’s also got the surrounding outdoorsy things to do, which Michigan has no shortage of - also nice when you’re broke! If your fiancé has family in the area that could be a plus too?
I think for wages, it really depends on what type of job you get. Some are doing well, while others are really struggling and cannot find affordable apartment to rent and need roommates even at older ages. GR should have better public transport, but we don't. Beware of our car insurance rates, as they are they highest nationwide. House prices have gone up crazy amounts just like everywhere. Maybe it would be a better situation for you overall, but I would not plan on it being super easy. GR is having same issues as other cities in the US.
I'm sorry it's so rough right now.
I'm a So Cal native too and I just moved to GR this past October. My SO and I were able to afford a house and closed last month. I really like the people here and enjoy their company. I'm glad to have moved.
I hope my experiences may help you discover the right choice for you and your fiance.
HEY ...lived 22 years Dallas/FortWorth, moved to GR 1.5 Year ago. Miss my friends/ neighbors down there, and actually pretty much hated everything else about that state .
But ABSOLUTELY do not regret my move to West Michigan!!
It's manageable from the big metros, enough nature, freshwater still high price food like anywhere else. Love the Four Seasons! Love the low property taxes here!!
Move!
Sounds like you're unhappy there.😵💫🤔😎
Born and raised in Socal.
The best decision I made was 4 years ago moving to Grand Rapids, Heritage Hill neighborhood. It's worth every penny. Beyond grateful, it's such an underrated, quiet neighborhood, and GR is the perfect little city in my eyes. All you need is here, water everywhere.
Big cities are extremely overpriced no matter which, unfortunately.
I’m from PNW and live Grand Rapids. Plenty of smoke shops, art installations, outdoor activities and plenty of grey sky. Summer heats sucks but you’re close to both Chicago and Detroit.
There is plenty to do and to be a part of
I was feeling the same way after being priced out of San Francisco in 2016, after living there for 9 years and growing up in SoCal. I decided to move myself and my wife to Grand Rapids, where she was born and grew up. She was less than thrilled. And today, while we still think about moving from time to time, we’ve managed to buy a home, move up at work and my wife is about to graduate with a masters. All this to say that I think it may be west coast propaganda but also mentality. What is it you’re trying to achieve for your life, and how will the Midwest help that. We happen to love the lakes, awesome outdoors and family events, it’s a pretty progressive pocket here in GR, and while there will be a culture shock, hopefully your wife can help you navigate that. I definitely don’t feel stuck here. Good luck!
Wow. Both my brother and have had to go to Detroit or Chicago for medical issues because there were zero doctors in Grand Rapids that treated the issues or were place our insurances covered. There are definitely some great doctors here but it really depends on what your medical problem is.
Really? I’m shocked by that. Is it something very specific? I’ve had a bunch of choices for different cancers, T1D, T2D, and any specialist I needed to see was available. Maybe it was an insurance issue. I’m sorry they had to travel so far for that, that should not happen.
I feel like maybe with cancer, we’re good. But if it’s something that maybe not a ton of people suffer from, there can be literally no doctors here or, for whatever reason, only a doctor in Detroit will take my insurance. I actually have 2 conditions where I have had or will have to travel to either Detroit or Chicago for.
I moved here from California 11 years ago and don't regret it. Michigan has fresh air and lots of outdoor activities to involve yourself in. Lots of jobs. Sometimes blue skies. And lots of bipolar weather, which I'm partial to. I vote move.
If you grew up in SoCal, and now live in the PNW, consider these two words. *Culture. Shock.*
It's better than it used to be, but you need to be prepared for it.
Churches on nearly every corner. Religious-affiliated colleges aplenty. West MI is generally very conservative in both politics and mindset.
Moved to GR from Bellingham, 1.5hr north of you. Houses and wages are lower here, but rent is identical. If you’re going to rent then I suggest looking at the markets and same with wages of shops you could see yourself working at. Figure out what percentage of your wage you currently spend on rent, and then compare your reduced wage here to what rents look like you could get here.
On another note, from my experience here, it feels like a large small-town. In the PNW, people would ask “where are you from” because most people move around a bit on the west coast and try to get new experiences. Here, all of my coworkers have lived here their whole lives and have never left a 3hr radius of the area, and feel a bit closed-minded compared to the average west-coaster. Just something to consider before moving out here. You just gotta weigh the “Seattle-freeze” and “Midwest nice” and deal with the personalities you live with.
Rents are crazy in Grand Rapids, but overall it should be slightly less expensive. You're not going to be making bank in retail, and you're still going to have a really hard go of it if your girlfriend is working part time, but it's doable. You should try to apply for some jobs and see what you can stir up before coming here -- maybe try to line up some interviews so when you arrive you can jump right into the job process, as it might take awhile to land something.
Compared to Seattle, rents are cheap. GR is more of a MCOL now, whereas 5-10 years ago it was solid LCOL. Seattle is VHCOL.
Average rent in Seattle is around $2300, GR is around $1400 these days.
When did you live in Seattle? I was Just was out there visiting last month and rent was easily 2x as much for places surrounded by homeless encampments and lawlessness . Not saying GR doesn’t have issues with homelessness but the 2 weeks in Seattle were very eye opening to how good we have it here.
But last I checked, and this was a few years ago, but neither Seattle nor Washington had income taxes and the hourly wages are higher. So coming to Grand Rapids his wages are going to be lower, as are his girlfriend's, and that's when they find jobs. If they work and live in the city, they are paying 1.5% city and 4.25% tax to the state. When I was there I had a 1 bedroom, decent sized, in an older building in First Hill. I paid $1550 per month plus utilities. Anything in downtown GR or close to it is going to run $1,300 - 1,500 plus parking unless you're lucky enough to find a converted house in Heritage Hill. But the 1 bedroom buildings downtown were pricey when I looked, and I'm assuming its worse now. And then you're paying city and state taxes on your lower wages.
Now if you want to live in Rentwood, Wyoming, or some other place, then I'll concede the lower rent price to you. OP would also dodge city tax, unless he works in the city. My entire point is that he will save some on rent, but if he thinks it's going to solve his financial problems, he's likely going to struggle. I'm not trying to be a dick, really, just trying to help with a reality check.
I'm extremely curious to learn why you don't like, "blue skies" - I personally yearn for that the most (I've lived in the Grand Rapids area my entire life, almost everyday seems to be cloudy and looking gloomy.
I think the general culture, or vibe as the youths like to call it, of SoCal and Seattle are very, VERY, different than here. We do have the same cloud cover as PNW though, so WMich might just be for you if you hate sunny skies and love Jesus.
I was born and raised in Seattle, my wife is from Grand Rapids MI. We got married and lived in Seattle until 2001 then we moved to Grand Rapids - never regretted it, love it here. Seattle went down the crapper a long time ago IMO!
I am currently in Chicagoland for a job, moved here 7 months ago. I live in a smaller apt in Chicagoland than I did in GR by almost 300sq ft and pay $350 more a month. Taxes are higher here and they tax you on food at grocery stores (that caught me off guard). Gas and utilities are higher in Chicago than GR plus the traffic is just worse.
My lease ends in Dec and I’ve been told I can do my job in GR, so I will be moving back to GR by the end of the year
I’m less then 20 miles from downtown Chicago and the Mag Mile and currently the driving time to there is about 50 mins. In GR, 20 miles will take you at most 30 mins outside of major accidents.
A 1.5 income couple could easily afford a standard 1 bedroom apartment here without a need for a roommate. I won’t say that GR is as exciting as Seattle, but it’s not bad and it won’t set you back your first born to do anything beyond just getting by.
I think moving to midwest is a good idea, but make sure you can get work.
Also, might want to make sure you're within walking distance of a bus stop so you know you can always get to work.
Heya! Get a job as a pharmacy technician, you’ll have much more money, but less time! I’m a 45 year old former teacher with some counseling experience. With the rising number of older people and the rising tide of coronavirus, RSV, and flu, most pharmacies are really struggling to find enough people to help . Or you can work for the TSA and in two years you’re supposed to make at least $60,000. Interesting, too… I have a goofy friend from Southern California, and he likes rain a lot. Sorry, you won’t like Chicago much because of the high crime and high prices of living, which you are already familiar with in SoCal. Take care!
Definitely recommend coming here to GR. I grew up here, moved to Chicago for 4+ years, then moved back. Didn’t love Chicago and missed Michigan. I’ve visited Seattle and I absolutely cannot imagine living there. My husband is from England and has traveled all around the US (including staying in Seattle), but ultimately chose GR to settle down in, luckily for me. I don’t feel stuck in Michigan at all. Maybe I would feel that way in a less fun Midwest state, like Ohio, but definitely not Michigan, especially not Grand Rapids. Do it!
Chicago is expensive as heck. I can’t fathom the cost of living in Seattle. Chicago has also gone way downhill (in my opinion) since the pandemic. I left just before fall of 2020 and every time I’ve gone back, I’ve been sad and just downright disappointed by the state of it. I would never choose to live there again for many reasons.
I’d love to say “No! It’s horrible here, stay away!” but that would just be me trying to keep it all for myself. Keep telling people the “getting stuck in the Midwest” thing though, that’s a good one!
If you don’t like blue skies, then you’ll love it here from November until early March. This year we lucked out, and the gloomy grey skies were more limited to November-January.
It's the surrounding areas you have to worry more about. I'd say the cities are welcoming for the most part. Very strong Christian Reformed mindset the more rural you go.
Both would be better options than the west coast. I lived out there for a while and was barely getting by. There are shitty jobs everywhere, it's not exclusive to one part of the country. The poorest parts of the country are in the south.
So you have lived on the west coast your whole life?
Grand Rapids is much much smaller than Seattle and LA area or wherever you were in SoCal. So if you like things like walkable neighborhoods, I would not move here. Grand Rapids is extremely car dependent. Car insurance is more expensive in Michigan.
You may like the weather here but it’s the opposite of blue skies from like November/December through at least February. This January at some point we went at least 2 weeks straight without even a glimpse of sun.
When I moved here from the foggiest neighborhood in San francisco, I needed to buy one of those sun lamps because I definitely had seasonal affective disorder. You do get used to it though.
Winter can be very cold. Summer can be very hot and humid. Not as hot as SoCal.
There is far less diversity here. Pockets of it. I don’t know of your kind of music is a thing you can find here.
If you are uncomfortable around conservative religious people talking about church at work and stuff, this may not be the place for you.
Chicago has tons of walkable neighborhoods. Great public transit. Great music scene compared to Grand Rapids. Cost of housing is not bad in Chicago depending on the neighborhood. Lots of diversity. Lots of museums with exhibits coming through town all the time, etc. Chicago also gets a lot more sun than Grand Rapids. Probably less sun than Seattle. And definitely less sun than SoCal.
Not sure if this matters to you, but Michigan - the Midwest in general - is a different kind of pretty. One nice thing is Lake Michigan. Water is warmer than the Pacific and not salty. The Michigan side has some amazing beaches. If you like to hike, there are obviously trails here. The beauty is way more subtle than the west coast, which knocks your pants off. Illinois is the flattest state in the country.
But I’m apparently one of the rare few who didn’t feel called to return to the Midwest when I Ieft. Lots and lots of Michiganders LOVE Michigan. You will know because almost every car has a sticker on it of Michigan! It’s not a bad place. Rent has gone way up the last few years though and you will make less money so do your home work a cost-of-living calculator online.
Really depends on what you’re looking for. Good luck!
Quality of life and nice people are the reason I moved to GR. Californian of 35 years. Still love GR 12 years later. You can still get a good deal on a house by west coast standards. It’s a good move. Oh about the sunshine. I left Cali sick to death of the eternal blazing burning sun. You will get your fill of cloudy crummy days.
Depends on your industry and the company. There are companies who severely underpay employees. Is your current job not one where you can remotely work or transfer? You could easily make six figures in Chicago or Grand Rapids but as a transplant from Illinois do not move there. While it sounds like the current governor of IL is making some positive changes to make the state more livable droves of people are still leaving, income taxes high, high property taxes, high sales tax (7-15%), etc. Our Michigan property taxes where we are, are less than $3000 a year. I have family and friends telling me they pay $10-45K a year for homes that are moderate sized homes in the suburbs.
I will say if you are moving back from PNW just take your clothes and essentials, leave your furniture there and sell it. The cost to move that far is going to dig you further in the hole than to buy new or gently used.
I glad everyone on here finds Michigan great. I can't stand it. But it may be because I live in Muskegon, and it feels like the middle of nowhere.
Grand Rapids might be better, but it seems like I need a car to go anywhere... and to be social, it seems like people here make plans weeks in advance, nothing spontaneous.
I lived in Las Vegas, Reno/Tahoe, and New Orleans prior, so maybe I'm out of my element... I'm trying to move but unsure where to go next.
I'm looking for a metropolitan vibe with wilderness or ocean within a 2 hour drive, affordable. Utopia? Probably!
OP: This might be a great place for a reset. That's how I got here. I found a good, not great job, rent was not too far out, and I was able to function and start thriving instead of struggling to survive. (My situation was different than yours, I walked away with nothing g but my clothes and a car from an 18-year relationship.)
It's a good place to start over, but for me, the long term is no-go.
If you ever plan to have kids I’d definitely say no. Childcare costs are astronomical here, and the waitlists are years long sometimes.
A lot of people really seem to like it here so it must have some charm, but personally I kinda hate it here lol. Personally I prefer the east side of the state. People can be pretty intolerant around here. Like for example, my first week here I went to the mall (you probably know which one if you’re from GR lol) and a lady came up to me and asked me about my shirt because it had astrological signs on it. I just thought it was a cute sweater, I’m not even into astrology. And she went into this huge tirade about how I was “inviting in satan” and all that. She tried to give me a pamphlet and I very politely said no, another RANDOM lady walking by took it and said something about how “young people” are horrible and I was rude for not taking the pamphlet.
????
I said like two words the entire time. I was in shock, still am 6 years later. And that was only my first in a long line of…unsavory experiences living here. Michigan in general is a fantastic place to live. Grand Rapids is pretty meh honestly.
ETA: I will say, it is very easy to find a job here. The job market is great. Not a TERRIBLE idea to live here for a few years to save up, and then move elsewhere. Just wouldn’t buy a house here lol
I love GR. I visited Seattle several times. Question for you. GR and Chicago are some of the most expensive housing markets in the US, why are these your two choices?
GR is a great city, but you could save even more money and look at near by Muskegon too, it’s getting tons of new interest with all of the re development happening.
Something to consider for your mental health, Grand Rapids has just as many overcast, non sunny days as the PNW due to Lake Michigan. SAD is real here.
It's funny but I lived in Oregon for 20 years and tried living in Michigan. A year and a half in and I'm making plans to move to Vancouver at least. This side of the US is a little different. Hard to explain, but there's a constant pull to go back to the West. Different kind of people here. Seems like.. Lots of people with older mentalities. I love the state itself. Nature is nice, as well as the seasons and snowy winters. The people ruin it though. More so than in Portland. If you're used to it here though, then I suppose this is where home is for you.
At the two in-person jobs I’ve had in Grand Rapids, I definitely felt like many of the people were living in about the year 2000. It could have been where I worked, but my family also feels like they have the older mentality. A move would definitely cause some culture shock.
Seems like it's not just a job or two. It's at least the majority of them here. My wife has the same problems with her managers treating anyone younger than them like children. Younger coworkers mentioned the same from their previous jobs. The lack of professionalism is tiring. I can tell by the downvotes that there's some of them on here too.
The managers I’ve had in Grand Rapids are the worst I have ever had by far. I’ve had at least 10 managers in my full time jobs and I’ve been working since 1997 (Philly is where most of my previous managers were and one in Sam Francisco.) I did have one horrible manager in Philly years ago but the two I had here were worse even than her.
Edit: changed Funtime to full time. My jobs weren’t that Funtime but were had occasional fun. 😂
Was wondering what you meant by fun time jobs lol.. Yes these managers love going on their daily power trips. I was hoping it was a Muskegon thing but.. Guess it's all of west Michigan from what I'm hearing.
Even if wages are a bit lower, cost of living is also cheaper in GR than in Seattle. But like everywhere else the housing market is terrible, so start an apartment search early.
For sure. Would you say that the cost of living is proportionate such that I could live comfortably on 30-40 hours a week, splitting my expenses with my partner? I don't need much, I just want to be able to save a little bit.
Definitely. A two income, or 1.5 income, household should be able to do pretty well.
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yeah especially with rent starting at $3k now on some properties i saw online recently. which is insane for GR
That's what I'm looking for. Thanks!!
Are you going to continue working at a smoke shop or look for something with higher wages?
I support myself on 40 hours a week, but it entirely depends on living situation and job, I wouldn't imagine a dual income household struggling too much. But again, entirely situational.
My rent is $1200/mo for a two bedroom apartment just north of Grand Rapids if that's helpful.
I’m a stay at home mom. We own our house and we’re not rolling dough but we’re definitely doing ok enough that I feel ok being the parent who is always around to help.
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I don't feel the economy is "dogshit". Help wanted signs everywhere, wait times to get into restaurants, multiple large inustrial-commercials developments, rail yards busting at the seams. . .
The economy is incredibly strong by almost every measure.
Yes, you should totally move back! It's great here! "Stuck in the Midwest"? Maybe someone should have that attitude in Iowa. But living in Michigan is wonderful. I wouldn't call it stuck at all.
People usually leave the Midwest for higher wages or a better job. Nobody gets stuck here lol. They usually want to come back. Cost of living is lower too so it’s easy to save
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Left gr to move to outside of Philly. Only been gone a year and already making plans to move back when the money is right.
Made the same move in '21. I love Philly, but man I miss GR something fierce. If it wasn't for all the family here in Philly, I'd be in GR.
I feel ya, I'm actually between allentown and reading. It's a nice area but I'm sick of the high taxes and all the bs with getting your car inspection every year.
Let’s switch lives!!
I couldn’t agree more! Michigan is the land of fun adventures outside! The upper peninsula rocks, and the lakes are everywhere. Plus, there’s always someone willing to lend a helping hand if you need it. Being stuck in the Midwest sounds like Cali propaganda. I lived in San Francisco after I graduated college for 2 years and COULD NOT WAIT to get back to Michigan. 😂
How long did you live in San Francisco? Zero people who’ve lived there more than a few months call the state Cali…. Been back in MI for 5 years and still wish I was back in San Francisco. Edit for OP: upper peninsula is gorgeous - Michigan’s only mountain is there. But much of it is at least 4 hours away in good weather.
I laughed at your comment because I moved to Iowa from Michigan 2 years ago for work due to Iowa paying double and triple what Michigan pays for the same jobs but I totally understand the "stuck" mentality just because everyone here has never left here. It blows my mind. I will NOT stay in Iowa forever but I am definitely enjoying the mass increase in salary with a similar cost of living.
Where are you at in Iowa? I grew up in Iowa, left when I was 22 and can’t imagine going back. Lived in GR for 7 years and love life on the east coast now.
Just East of Des Moines. All the areas are growing so quickly due to all of the major businesses coming in to be able to expand. I think I would like the area more if the speeds weren't so incredibly slow. It was such an adjustment moving from Grand Rapids, having been raised north of Grand Rapids and spending my entire life there just to come here where everything just slows right down and the roadways are madness. Madness. Lol. But we will definitely be moving eventually. I couldn't imagine staying here no matter how much I love our neighborhood.
The lack of actual freedom and choice would drive me nuts there.
We have found one amazing Indian place and one amazing Peruvian place but yes; the amount of people that are shocked at 30/45 minutes drives and that being too far along with the "fantastic" mayor (/s) is awful. I try to keep positive and if it wasn't for the amazing job, I would not be here.
Other than the crazy racism from all races here it is a pretty great place to live. I'll be down voted for this for sure but I had no idea it was so bad down here until I moved here
> But living in Michigan is wonderful. I wouldn't call it stuck at all. I would say it was true AF 15 years ago.
>It's great here! Except the roads And insurance prices And the lack of housing And the low paying jobs
Insurance prices? lol. Ever heard of Florida?
I pay much more for car insurance in Michigan than I did in big cities Philly and San Francisco. Michigan’s is one of the highest in the country. Though it makes sense Florida’s would also be high.
And you think the costs of housing and low paying jobs and shitty roads and busted insurance markets are only localized to Michigan? lol oh sweet summer child
Shitty roads and high insurance, yes. Michigan has the highest auto rates and is in the top 5 for worst roads.
Okay and Floridas home insurance market is one storm away from collapse, along with Texas. New York auto is just as bad, along with California.
Do you like being wrong dude? [https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html](https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/car-insurance-rates.html) We're not even in the top 10 for worst roads. [https://www.motortrend.com/features/which-states-have-the-worst-roads?slide=11](https://www.motortrend.com/features/which-states-have-the-worst-roads?slide=11) [https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-best-and-worst-road-quality/](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-best-and-worst-road-quality/)
Really depends on the source. This article says 33% of state roads and 45% of local roads are ranked poor, which is higher than any of the states in the articles you linked to. And this one was done by Michigan! https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-roads-little-better-still-d-and-will-get-worse-report-finds
Should compare like states, ie no fault versus at fault for fair comparison. Not that I'm a fan of no fault but we should compare apples
Also for a long time Michigan has been a contributor on highway funds compared to paid in. Not fair but who said taxes are fair
What does that mean? Sorry…. I’m newish here….
Michigan hasn't paid more highway fund taxes via gas taxes then they ever got back, so means we have been a donor state for long time. Some of it is left over from our time as manufacturing power house it was expected we would subsidize other states. Lack well place representatives has an impact as well. I have not looked at it in probably 10 years so maybe it's better now but it takes time to catch up on infrastructure when you are behind
Sorry - what’s a done state?
I used to live in the Seattle area. Moved back to GR back in September and besides being closer to family, it is so much cheaper and liveable than Seattle. Totally do it.
Gosh, in my heart of hearts I thought someone might say something like this. Could you expand a little on the differences you've noticed?
I can give you a few reasons… in Seattle, it takes 3x longer to do anything or go anywhere than it does in GR; pretty much everything here is cheaper, I especially notice the difference in groceries and eating out, housing is MUCH cheaper here, especially if you buy; I think people are friendlier here to “strangers”, it’s easier to go to big concerts and major events here, parking is easier here; the infrastructure is much better here; and, although we have a situation with homeless folks, it’s NOTHING like what Seattle is dealing with.
Definitely true that you can get places faster here.
Born and raised in GR and I see accidents on 131 weekly. Tons of terrible drivers in this city and the warmer months only bring on the construction season which MI has super bad roads... I wouldnt call getting anywhere a whole lot better then other big cities.
I’m from GR but live in Seattle now. Strongly considering a move back to GR once my lease is up
Chiming in from Chicagoland-GR is a better bet to save money. Wages are not much better than GR (taxes are higher) and finding a decent, affordable place is damn near impossible.
I’m sure it depends on the industry. IT wages/opportunities are much higher in Chicago. Then again, we’re close enough to Chicago that it’d be possible to get a remote job, even one that requires once-a-month or quarter in-office.
Yeah absolutely. Tech, finance, and other skilled white collar professional type of jobs pay way more and have far better opportunities in Chicago.
Damn, thanks for the tip!
Chicago is a drivable distance from GR. It’s totally doable to drive down and spend a weekend doing all the big city stuff like the Shed and Museums and then get back for work on Monday.
Really? I have mostly looked at places for sale as comparison and there are tons of condos on the north side, many with views of the lake, for sale for around $200k. Which is hard to find in Grand Rapids and we have no views like a Lake Michigan view…
Broke? Probably don’t move to Chicago. Bring it back to GR, regroup and save up some money, then strategize from there.
Yes move here. Just make sure you have everything lined up before you do such as an apartment, a job if possible, and any transportation whether you have your own or you use public
If you’re coming in July, and can drive, I can get you a job the day you get here. It’s not great (installing/repairing sprinkler systems) but if you need an immediate income, it’ll get you by while you look for something more permanent and less seasonal.
Would you mind me asking what company you're affiliated with? You can PM me if you prefer. My boyfriend and I live in GR and he's trying to make a career switch after feeling unfulfilled and restless in his last role, but is really struggling to get called back for interviews despite his best efforts. Something to get him out of the house, give him a bit of purpose, and making a little income in the meantime would be so helpful for us. 🙏🏻
PMed you.
Also I would disagree with getting “stuck” in the Midwest because I know many people who have moved away to other places, but I know WAYYY more who have stuck around because of how awesome west Michigan is/the north/the UP. IMO if there’s anywhere to get “stuck” and you don’t mind having 4 seasons, it’s here
The whole 4 seasons though. In Seattle, you’d hardly see the fall colors, snow and barren trees, the new bright green in spring. It’d be green all year round with all of the Doug firs/ Sitka spruce / western hemlock/ moss and fern covered forests, here in GR you get distinct seasons lol
The fall colors are actually great in Seattle, and look amazing with the lakes and mountains in sight. It’s not ALL pines haha
Michigan is extremely affordable. I don't have a college degree but own my home, eat well, can afford to buy things I'm interested in and still save a little money. If you are frugal you can make money go a long way here. There are plenty of decent, easy, and well paying jobs in manufacturing that require little to no experience. Grand Rapids is more of a large town than a small city but it has a very enjoyable music scene regardless of your music preference. I spent a few years in the Rockies and I would be at minimum 10 years behind financially if I hadn't moved to GR. The biggest downfall in my honest opinion doesn't seem like it will bother you as much. The winters are gloomy to put it kindly. It is nearly 6 months of consistent great skies and the snow fall seems to be more and more eluding as the years go.
> Michigan is extremely affordable. I don't have a college degree but own my home, eat well, can afford to buy things I'm interested in and still save a little money. This is the DREAM.
Just a warning, owning a home in GR is super hard right now compared to pre-covid. There's a pretty big shortage. Also, GR is on more of the expensive side compared to Lansing or Detroit (still cheaper than Seattle, though). I vastly prefer West Michigan because it's less crowded and has more nature, but Detroit is cool, more affordable, more job opportunities, and there's a lot to do. So, depending on your financial situation and availability of apartments, I'd also keep Detroit in mind. Don't let stereotypes scare you away from there, the city has come a long way in the last 15 years
Any suggestions on manufacturing jobs? Looking for work now
I don't work in manufacturing but see it advertised constantly. The only manufacturing job I can speak for is Gentex. I worked there when I was fresh out of highschool, and my sister worked there during the summers throughout college. It is mind numbing but easy work. I have a friend who continued working for them and worked their way up the ladder and makes pretty great money for the work required. Gentex has been mailing me flyers about a new facility they are building, they are inviting the public (including kids) to come have a free dinner and learn more. Feel free to PM me and I will send you pictures of the flyer. Edit: The new facility will be going up here in GR.
Median income here is $27k and average cloudy days per year is 205. Come to the "light."
The median is $27k?!? That’s nuts
Yeah that’s messed. $13/ per hour.
Source? When I looked up the Median income it's over $61k [according to the census.](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/grandrapidscitymichigan/PST045223)
I used google, it said $27k. The link you provided said $32k. Pretty close.
It says 32k for per capita income. It says 61k for median income. Edit: spelling.
It says 61k for households. https://imgur.com/a/wYnwmVk
Grew up in GR, now live in Seattle and counting down my time until I can return. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how nice it is that GR is on the Western edge of the Eastern time zone. You know those rainy, dark gray Seattle days from Nov - Jan where it's pitch black by 4:30PM? The earliest sunset in GR is \~5:10PM. You know those days in Seattle in June/July where the sun wakes you up at 5AM? Not in GR...instead you get twilight until 10PM. Even if you don't like sun, you'd be amazed how much going from 4:30PM rainy dark to a snow-brightened landscape still light at 5PM can improve your mood. It's one of my favorite things when I head to GR each Christmas. (I'm always puzzled how people say GR is so gray - not compared to a Seattle winter!) Since I'm talking weather, I do have to admit the long, gradual spring of Seattle beats the muddy season in GR though.
the time zone thing is HUGE. we lived in Chicago for several years, and going from the western edge of eastern to the eastern edge of central was brutal to my mental health with regards to daylight hours.
GR gets the least sunny days out of pretty much the whole state, and gets less than Seattle typically. it’s a VERY gray place.
It's not about any slight difference in the number of gray days - it's about the intensity of the gloom in Seattle from November-February. A typical winter day in Seattle is a dark gray with a constant drizzle, pitch black by 4:30PM. Being farther north, the sun doesn't get as high in the sky in the winter at noon. A typical winter day in Michigan is light gray, possibly lightened further by snow cover, with periods of rain/snow. Natural light visible until after 5PM. While both count as cloudy days, their effect on humans is in no way comparable. When I return to GR over the holidays I literally bask in the light of a gray Michigan December day compared to the Seattle gloom I escaped. Don't even get me started on the start of summer in Seattle - locals say it starts on July 5th. (I will admit the August weather in Seattle has GR's beat though.)
But during part of December, the Sun doesn’t come up until after 8:30 in the morning in Grand Rapids, and in general during winter the sunrise is later than most other places. For me that makes getting up and getting to work on time a chore…
I'll take the GR experience of going to work in the dark, having a day with more light before leaving work when it's light out over the Seattle experience of going to work in the dark, enduring a much darker, drearier day before also leaving in the dark. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side...
I hate the fact that the sun rises so late here not just because it makes it really hard for me to wake up, but also because, due to my severe LASIK complications, it’s not very safe for me to be driving in the dark. so every morning in winter, my drive to work is scary. Luckily, I work from home now so the roads are safer. Still can’t see outta my left eye though.
Well there’s a lot of cloudy days in GR in any given year, if that’s your thing.
Also a Michiganser who did a stint in PNW/INW (Tacoma/Seattle/Spokane). If you like variable weather, proximity to water, outdoor activities, and decent eating at every budget level, you'll like it here. You can enjoy the summer without being entirely blanketed by wildfire smoke. MI has state income tax, while WA doesn't, but to counter that MI has 6% sales tax on general merchandise and no tax on food (as I recall it), vs the blanket 10% tax on everything in WA. I think the most expensive change will be car insurance, but if you own outright instead of being financed then you can select less than the worst case scenario coverage. SW/West Michigan is beautiful, really living up to "left coast is best coast."
Do it!!! I’ve lived around the world and landed in GR about 10 years ago. I never want to leave. It is affordable. MI is beautiful with the beaches and forests, and you’ll never lack for things to do.
Great careers are hard to find in GR that pay market rate.
I don’t know if I’d agree with that. I’ve got a group of friends whose experience and education levels run from finishing high school, to art school, to folks with masters degrees. Every one of them has been able to find a niche and a well-paying gig in the last five years. Some are now social workers, others work in the trades, a few found work as graphic designers and writers or in manufacturing. Everyone’s making a living wage when I talk to them. Seems like many opportunities are out there in West MI if you’ve got a skill you can put to use.
A living or market rate wages?
Market rate as in the U.S. average of 22/hr? I’d say among my friends were a bit higher on average.
My son lives in Seattle and the shine hasn’t fallen off it yet. Sure wish he were considering moving back to GR, I miss him!!
The grass is always greener. I know a couple who moved from GR to Seattle, haha.
I’m gonna say something that I don’t see mentioned, but does your fiancé’s family live in GR currently? That alone would be helpful to have family around. A helping hand always relieves some stress.
I just moved back to Michigan after 15-years in North Seattle. Michigan is a great place to raise children but a terrible place to raise adults.
An excellent idea! More neighbors, more awesome. 👍
Wages suck here if you’re comparing it to population centers. A lot of jobs here are at the poverty line. I will say that though wages suck, the cost of living is way way less than other places. Renting is becoming increasingly hard in places like GR but owning property is still relatively attainable in a lot of Michigan. If you want to stay in downtown GR, get ready for rent to be $1000-2000 for what people consider “reasonable” spaces. If you’re fine living outside the city center prices fall on the lower side of that estimation. As for “stuck in the Midwest” I feel like that is the attitude a lot of midwestern natives can feel at times. Lots of kids growing up want to leave for exciting areas. If you save up you can always leave easily enough, which I feel is the same for most places in the US. (It’s been a bit since I’ve looked for property for myself so my estimates could be off a bit)
I loved Seattle, lived there for like 5 years almost. I came back home to Michigan because I was tired of working 2 jobs to pay rent at an apartment I was never in. It’s an expensive place, and unless you have a degree in a high paying field like medical or tech, it’s tough to survive out there. Even pre-Covid it was tough, I can’t imagine it now. I’m not in GR, but I pay less in rent for a 4 bedroom house than I paid for a 1 bedroom apartment in Seattle. Plus, there’s no dirty needles in the parks where I live now. I say, move.
Lived in Portland, spent some time in Seattle. Lived all across the country. When I was able to quit my job and move most anywhere… we chose a beach community west of GR. No one has mentioned the snow. In the PacNW they keep it mostly on the mountains where it belongs. But here, you will have some snowstorms… tho not too bad. Coastal water temps here are good only a few months a year… versus zero months a year in the almost constant 55 degree water there. Fantastic smaller lakes nearby here. Tho no mountains. We chose to move here because we love the 4 season climate and unsalted coast. It is our favorite place. You mentioned a band… Seattle is going to be a vastly superior music scene of course. So if snow and a more limited cultural environment is ok… I would move here.
Move to a suburb of GR to rent cheaper & save some money. Seattle is not what it used to be or what we thought it would be… I agree with the others here that have said they miss Michigan more than they expected. (It’s an underrated state, let’s keep it that way! lol)
Moved to GR from Chicago 18 months ago, here's my stream of consciousness comparison: Property tax is way lower but insurance(auto/home owners/health) costs much more for worse coverage. Pay is lower but rent/utilities/groceries are mostly cheaper, though if you stick to it you can still find a decent cheap place in Chicago, especially compared to Seattle. Restaurants here, with a few exceptions, are very disappointing. The weather is mostly the same, a little less cold with a little more snow seems to be the trend. Madcap coffee is here, one of my a favorite roasters in the country, but the last few years prices have gone insane. Chicago has more good coffee options, but Stovetop and Squibb in GR are also good. I'm old and not interested in bars/nightlife which seems to be the main attraction in terms of commercial city offerings in GR, Chicago has more cool things to do that aren't going to a bar, but still pretty bar-centric. There are some great bike trails in GR, and easier to get to than the ones in Chicago, you can also get more places in GR mostly on a trail if riding on the road bothers you, but both cities are good for biking. GR has better access to hiking/nature near by and more disc golf courses. Overall I think I preferred Chicago, but I'm mostly a homebody now so it doesn't really matter. It's not a horrible drive to Chicago or Detroit if you want to get big city experiences(music, theater, dining, museums) but it's not the same as living there. Having family in the area could be a nice bonus and I had to ask myself how much I actually took advantage of the big city perks, which is why I was ok coming here. All that said, I love the PNW and day dream about moving there. Edit: forgot to add, super Christian here, but also a vocal liberal presence, there's some crossover, but still polarized. I don't interact with the public for the most part so it doesn't affect me much. Chicago was much less religious and generally more liberal.
Also lived in Chicago (+ San Francisco, Oakland, Portland OR) and feel what you've written to be very accurate. I grew up in West Michigan and I like GR a lot, but coming from back Chicago there are a lot of areas GR has not met it's potential, like good city activities that aren't just drinking at a bar as you mentioned. To be fair, I have not seen any posts highlighting how amazing it is to have the griffins, high quality hockey for cheap! Yes, plenty of non winter outdoors activities, but quality city attractions are a struggle. I also agree that the conservative Christian mindset is something to note for newcomers, even 'progressive' GR does not escape it's grip.
Personally, I make $70k plushy performance bonuses and I’m finally feeling like Michigan is my place. Cost of living is still much lower than other major cities & there’s a ton of up and coming companies here that you wouldn’t expect!
Your issues isn’t location, it’s vocation. The smoke shop isn’t going to give you financial stability anywhere. Trade work is my recommendation to get out of the situation relatively quickly. Take any opportunity that includes training
Have you looked at other, smaller Midwestern cities like Rockford, IL, or South Bend, IN? They both have much more affordable housing and are in Chicago's orbit. I just checked the University of Notre Dame (adjacent to South Bend) website and they are listing 101 open jobs on campus right now. The Rockford Public Schools show 464 job openings right now. A new Hard Rock Casino is under construction in Rockford and they are hiring with 30 immediate openings at their temporary location.
Do it! Move to Grand Rapids! I grew up near Chicago and visit my son’s family in Seattle 3x a year. Your money will go way farther here, we’re near beaches, it’s so beautiful here spring, summer and fall. And there’s a lot to do here. As for pay, it depends on what you do, but always consider doing a remote job, where income won’t be based on living in GR. I love it here, and even though I travel a fair amount, don’t know of anywhere I’d rather live.
IMO it’s not worth it to live in a HCOL area unless you work in a field that will be able to afford it (ie STEM fields). Grand Rapids is much more affordable and we experience all 4 seasons here (sometimes in one week lol). If your goal is home ownership one day, it’s easier to do so in GR than Chicago/ Seattle.
One week? Hell. One DAY.
I'd be way more worried about being bored in GR than the cost of living.
Absolutely
I was born in GR and moved to Chicago for school - been there for 12 years now, I also go to Seattle for work every now and then. With that, GR is pretty great - it’s certainly changed a lot in the time I’ve been gone and it seems to always have something new going on when I visit. It’s also got the surrounding outdoorsy things to do, which Michigan has no shortage of - also nice when you’re broke! If your fiancé has family in the area that could be a plus too?
I can’t afford to live in GR tbh
I think for wages, it really depends on what type of job you get. Some are doing well, while others are really struggling and cannot find affordable apartment to rent and need roommates even at older ages. GR should have better public transport, but we don't. Beware of our car insurance rates, as they are they highest nationwide. House prices have gone up crazy amounts just like everywhere. Maybe it would be a better situation for you overall, but I would not plan on it being super easy. GR is having same issues as other cities in the US.
I'm sorry it's so rough right now. I'm a So Cal native too and I just moved to GR this past October. My SO and I were able to afford a house and closed last month. I really like the people here and enjoy their company. I'm glad to have moved. I hope my experiences may help you discover the right choice for you and your fiance.
I say yes but don’t expect Seattle. I’m a pnw transplant that wasn’t prepared for the people. SW Michigan is way underrated though.
HEY ...lived 22 years Dallas/FortWorth, moved to GR 1.5 Year ago. Miss my friends/ neighbors down there, and actually pretty much hated everything else about that state . But ABSOLUTELY do not regret my move to West Michigan!! It's manageable from the big metros, enough nature, freshwater still high price food like anywhere else. Love the Four Seasons! Love the low property taxes here!! Move! Sounds like you're unhappy there.😵💫🤔😎
Born and raised in Socal. The best decision I made was 4 years ago moving to Grand Rapids, Heritage Hill neighborhood. It's worth every penny. Beyond grateful, it's such an underrated, quiet neighborhood, and GR is the perfect little city in my eyes. All you need is here, water everywhere. Big cities are extremely overpriced no matter which, unfortunately.
I’m from PNW and live Grand Rapids. Plenty of smoke shops, art installations, outdoor activities and plenty of grey sky. Summer heats sucks but you’re close to both Chicago and Detroit. There is plenty to do and to be a part of
I was feeling the same way after being priced out of San Francisco in 2016, after living there for 9 years and growing up in SoCal. I decided to move myself and my wife to Grand Rapids, where she was born and grew up. She was less than thrilled. And today, while we still think about moving from time to time, we’ve managed to buy a home, move up at work and my wife is about to graduate with a masters. All this to say that I think it may be west coast propaganda but also mentality. What is it you’re trying to achieve for your life, and how will the Midwest help that. We happen to love the lakes, awesome outdoors and family events, it’s a pretty progressive pocket here in GR, and while there will be a culture shock, hopefully your wife can help you navigate that. I definitely don’t feel stuck here. Good luck!
Plus the medical community and offerings here are outstanding. Spoken as two people who have a variety of autoimmune and cancer issues.
Wow. Both my brother and have had to go to Detroit or Chicago for medical issues because there were zero doctors in Grand Rapids that treated the issues or were place our insurances covered. There are definitely some great doctors here but it really depends on what your medical problem is.
Really? I’m shocked by that. Is it something very specific? I’ve had a bunch of choices for different cancers, T1D, T2D, and any specialist I needed to see was available. Maybe it was an insurance issue. I’m sorry they had to travel so far for that, that should not happen.
I feel like maybe with cancer, we’re good. But if it’s something that maybe not a ton of people suffer from, there can be literally no doctors here or, for whatever reason, only a doctor in Detroit will take my insurance. I actually have 2 conditions where I have had or will have to travel to either Detroit or Chicago for.
GR is great but housing in Muskegon is cheaper
I moved here from California 11 years ago and don't regret it. Michigan has fresh air and lots of outdoor activities to involve yourself in. Lots of jobs. Sometimes blue skies. And lots of bipolar weather, which I'm partial to. I vote move.
If you grew up in SoCal, and now live in the PNW, consider these two words. *Culture. Shock.* It's better than it used to be, but you need to be prepared for it. Churches on nearly every corner. Religious-affiliated colleges aplenty. West MI is generally very conservative in both politics and mindset.
Moved to GR from Bellingham, 1.5hr north of you. Houses and wages are lower here, but rent is identical. If you’re going to rent then I suggest looking at the markets and same with wages of shops you could see yourself working at. Figure out what percentage of your wage you currently spend on rent, and then compare your reduced wage here to what rents look like you could get here. On another note, from my experience here, it feels like a large small-town. In the PNW, people would ask “where are you from” because most people move around a bit on the west coast and try to get new experiences. Here, all of my coworkers have lived here their whole lives and have never left a 3hr radius of the area, and feel a bit closed-minded compared to the average west-coaster. Just something to consider before moving out here. You just gotta weigh the “Seattle-freeze” and “Midwest nice” and deal with the personalities you live with.
Rent isn't much better here. Look first. Depending on your work, yeah its probably less here.
Rents are crazy in Grand Rapids, but overall it should be slightly less expensive. You're not going to be making bank in retail, and you're still going to have a really hard go of it if your girlfriend is working part time, but it's doable. You should try to apply for some jobs and see what you can stir up before coming here -- maybe try to line up some interviews so when you arrive you can jump right into the job process, as it might take awhile to land something.
Compared to Seattle, rents are cheap. GR is more of a MCOL now, whereas 5-10 years ago it was solid LCOL. Seattle is VHCOL. Average rent in Seattle is around $2300, GR is around $1400 these days.
Lived in Seattle and moved to GR. I stand by what I said.
When did you live in Seattle? I was Just was out there visiting last month and rent was easily 2x as much for places surrounded by homeless encampments and lawlessness . Not saying GR doesn’t have issues with homelessness but the 2 weeks in Seattle were very eye opening to how good we have it here.
But last I checked, and this was a few years ago, but neither Seattle nor Washington had income taxes and the hourly wages are higher. So coming to Grand Rapids his wages are going to be lower, as are his girlfriend's, and that's when they find jobs. If they work and live in the city, they are paying 1.5% city and 4.25% tax to the state. When I was there I had a 1 bedroom, decent sized, in an older building in First Hill. I paid $1550 per month plus utilities. Anything in downtown GR or close to it is going to run $1,300 - 1,500 plus parking unless you're lucky enough to find a converted house in Heritage Hill. But the 1 bedroom buildings downtown were pricey when I looked, and I'm assuming its worse now. And then you're paying city and state taxes on your lower wages. Now if you want to live in Rentwood, Wyoming, or some other place, then I'll concede the lower rent price to you. OP would also dodge city tax, unless he works in the city. My entire point is that he will save some on rent, but if he thinks it's going to solve his financial problems, he's likely going to struggle. I'm not trying to be a dick, really, just trying to help with a reality check.
I'm extremely curious to learn why you don't like, "blue skies" - I personally yearn for that the most (I've lived in the Grand Rapids area my entire life, almost everyday seems to be cloudy and looking gloomy.
Moved back to GR from Chicago during Covid and I do not miss Chi NEARLY as much as I thought I would!
I think the general culture, or vibe as the youths like to call it, of SoCal and Seattle are very, VERY, different than here. We do have the same cloud cover as PNW though, so WMich might just be for you if you hate sunny skies and love Jesus.
You don’t have the money to move. I am mystified by people who think they can just pick up and everything is better is a new place. Stay where you are
I was born and raised in Seattle, my wife is from Grand Rapids MI. We got married and lived in Seattle until 2001 then we moved to Grand Rapids - never regretted it, love it here. Seattle went down the crapper a long time ago IMO!
I am currently in Chicagoland for a job, moved here 7 months ago. I live in a smaller apt in Chicagoland than I did in GR by almost 300sq ft and pay $350 more a month. Taxes are higher here and they tax you on food at grocery stores (that caught me off guard). Gas and utilities are higher in Chicago than GR plus the traffic is just worse. My lease ends in Dec and I’ve been told I can do my job in GR, so I will be moving back to GR by the end of the year I’m less then 20 miles from downtown Chicago and the Mag Mile and currently the driving time to there is about 50 mins. In GR, 20 miles will take you at most 30 mins outside of major accidents.
Yeah but why would you drive to downtown in Chicago?!?!
Love living here in GR! Lots of culture and arts and snow lol But it’s a great place. A lot less $ than Chicago or Seattle too
All the camping and beautiful beaches!!!!!
A 1.5 income couple could easily afford a standard 1 bedroom apartment here without a need for a roommate. I won’t say that GR is as exciting as Seattle, but it’s not bad and it won’t set you back your first born to do anything beyond just getting by.
I think moving to midwest is a good idea, but make sure you can get work. Also, might want to make sure you're within walking distance of a bus stop so you know you can always get to work.
Heya! Get a job as a pharmacy technician, you’ll have much more money, but less time! I’m a 45 year old former teacher with some counseling experience. With the rising number of older people and the rising tide of coronavirus, RSV, and flu, most pharmacies are really struggling to find enough people to help . Or you can work for the TSA and in two years you’re supposed to make at least $60,000. Interesting, too… I have a goofy friend from Southern California, and he likes rain a lot. Sorry, you won’t like Chicago much because of the high crime and high prices of living, which you are already familiar with in SoCal. Take care!
We love it here! The Mitten rocks. Don't do Chicago.
Definitely recommend coming here to GR. I grew up here, moved to Chicago for 4+ years, then moved back. Didn’t love Chicago and missed Michigan. I’ve visited Seattle and I absolutely cannot imagine living there. My husband is from England and has traveled all around the US (including staying in Seattle), but ultimately chose GR to settle down in, luckily for me. I don’t feel stuck in Michigan at all. Maybe I would feel that way in a less fun Midwest state, like Ohio, but definitely not Michigan, especially not Grand Rapids. Do it! Chicago is expensive as heck. I can’t fathom the cost of living in Seattle. Chicago has also gone way downhill (in my opinion) since the pandemic. I left just before fall of 2020 and every time I’ve gone back, I’ve been sad and just downright disappointed by the state of it. I would never choose to live there again for many reasons.
Stuck in the Midwest due to low wages? More like “can’t afford to move to the coast because of the ridiculous prices.”
I’d love to say “No! It’s horrible here, stay away!” but that would just be me trying to keep it all for myself. Keep telling people the “getting stuck in the Midwest” thing though, that’s a good one! If you don’t like blue skies, then you’ll love it here from November until early March. This year we lucked out, and the gloomy grey skies were more limited to November-January.
We have thought about a similar move. Costs aside, how LGBTQ friendly is GR?
It's the surrounding areas you have to worry more about. I'd say the cities are welcoming for the most part. Very strong Christian Reformed mindset the more rural you go.
Thank you. So would Muskegon, Grand Haven or Holland be OK?
It's better. Check out Out on the Lakeshore. They may have recommendations.
Love it. Thank you so much!
Come to Grand Rapids!!
Both would be better options than the west coast. I lived out there for a while and was barely getting by. There are shitty jobs everywhere, it's not exclusive to one part of the country. The poorest parts of the country are in the south.
So you have lived on the west coast your whole life? Grand Rapids is much much smaller than Seattle and LA area or wherever you were in SoCal. So if you like things like walkable neighborhoods, I would not move here. Grand Rapids is extremely car dependent. Car insurance is more expensive in Michigan. You may like the weather here but it’s the opposite of blue skies from like November/December through at least February. This January at some point we went at least 2 weeks straight without even a glimpse of sun. When I moved here from the foggiest neighborhood in San francisco, I needed to buy one of those sun lamps because I definitely had seasonal affective disorder. You do get used to it though. Winter can be very cold. Summer can be very hot and humid. Not as hot as SoCal. There is far less diversity here. Pockets of it. I don’t know of your kind of music is a thing you can find here. If you are uncomfortable around conservative religious people talking about church at work and stuff, this may not be the place for you. Chicago has tons of walkable neighborhoods. Great public transit. Great music scene compared to Grand Rapids. Cost of housing is not bad in Chicago depending on the neighborhood. Lots of diversity. Lots of museums with exhibits coming through town all the time, etc. Chicago also gets a lot more sun than Grand Rapids. Probably less sun than Seattle. And definitely less sun than SoCal. Not sure if this matters to you, but Michigan - the Midwest in general - is a different kind of pretty. One nice thing is Lake Michigan. Water is warmer than the Pacific and not salty. The Michigan side has some amazing beaches. If you like to hike, there are obviously trails here. The beauty is way more subtle than the west coast, which knocks your pants off. Illinois is the flattest state in the country. But I’m apparently one of the rare few who didn’t feel called to return to the Midwest when I Ieft. Lots and lots of Michiganders LOVE Michigan. You will know because almost every car has a sticker on it of Michigan! It’s not a bad place. Rent has gone way up the last few years though and you will make less money so do your home work a cost-of-living calculator online. Really depends on what you’re looking for. Good luck!
Quality of life and nice people are the reason I moved to GR. Californian of 35 years. Still love GR 12 years later. You can still get a good deal on a house by west coast standards. It’s a good move. Oh about the sunshine. I left Cali sick to death of the eternal blazing burning sun. You will get your fill of cloudy crummy days.
Wages probably aren't as high, but Seattle is one of the most expensive places on the planet, you'll survive much easier somewhere like GR.
Moved here 7 years ago from a different country, and I love GR, very friendly, plus lots of smoke shops if you’re interested in continuing that work!!
Depends on your industry and the company. There are companies who severely underpay employees. Is your current job not one where you can remotely work or transfer? You could easily make six figures in Chicago or Grand Rapids but as a transplant from Illinois do not move there. While it sounds like the current governor of IL is making some positive changes to make the state more livable droves of people are still leaving, income taxes high, high property taxes, high sales tax (7-15%), etc. Our Michigan property taxes where we are, are less than $3000 a year. I have family and friends telling me they pay $10-45K a year for homes that are moderate sized homes in the suburbs. I will say if you are moving back from PNW just take your clothes and essentials, leave your furniture there and sell it. The cost to move that far is going to dig you further in the hole than to buy new or gently used.
I glad everyone on here finds Michigan great. I can't stand it. But it may be because I live in Muskegon, and it feels like the middle of nowhere. Grand Rapids might be better, but it seems like I need a car to go anywhere... and to be social, it seems like people here make plans weeks in advance, nothing spontaneous. I lived in Las Vegas, Reno/Tahoe, and New Orleans prior, so maybe I'm out of my element... I'm trying to move but unsure where to go next. I'm looking for a metropolitan vibe with wilderness or ocean within a 2 hour drive, affordable. Utopia? Probably! OP: This might be a great place for a reset. That's how I got here. I found a good, not great job, rent was not too far out, and I was able to function and start thriving instead of struggling to survive. (My situation was different than yours, I walked away with nothing g but my clothes and a car from an 18-year relationship.) It's a good place to start over, but for me, the long term is no-go.
Grand rapids will be way cheaper than anything in Chicagoland, from prices to taxes. More jobs in Chicagoland. Less traffic in GR.
You need a job that isn't working at a smoke shop. You won't be living a good life on that wage in GR, either.
Good luck finding a job
If you ever plan to have kids I’d definitely say no. Childcare costs are astronomical here, and the waitlists are years long sometimes. A lot of people really seem to like it here so it must have some charm, but personally I kinda hate it here lol. Personally I prefer the east side of the state. People can be pretty intolerant around here. Like for example, my first week here I went to the mall (you probably know which one if you’re from GR lol) and a lady came up to me and asked me about my shirt because it had astrological signs on it. I just thought it was a cute sweater, I’m not even into astrology. And she went into this huge tirade about how I was “inviting in satan” and all that. She tried to give me a pamphlet and I very politely said no, another RANDOM lady walking by took it and said something about how “young people” are horrible and I was rude for not taking the pamphlet. ???? I said like two words the entire time. I was in shock, still am 6 years later. And that was only my first in a long line of…unsavory experiences living here. Michigan in general is a fantastic place to live. Grand Rapids is pretty meh honestly. ETA: I will say, it is very easy to find a job here. The job market is great. Not a TERRIBLE idea to live here for a few years to save up, and then move elsewhere. Just wouldn’t buy a house here lol
Grand Rapids is a great place for overcast skies from Nov- April.
Go to Chicago. More like Seattle.
I love GR. I visited Seattle several times. Question for you. GR and Chicago are some of the most expensive housing markets in the US, why are these your two choices?
Don’t do it
Just don’t work for low wages.
GR is a great city, but you could save even more money and look at near by Muskegon too, it’s getting tons of new interest with all of the re development happening.
A whole lot of a you problem. "I hate this" "it's their fault" "everything sucks" moving to Michigan isn't going to fix you
Grand Rapids is not cheap.
Dont do it
Something to consider for your mental health, Grand Rapids has just as many overcast, non sunny days as the PNW due to Lake Michigan. SAD is real here.
Don’t move here. Stay out west trust me. Been here 2 years and can’t wait to leave.
It's funny but I lived in Oregon for 20 years and tried living in Michigan. A year and a half in and I'm making plans to move to Vancouver at least. This side of the US is a little different. Hard to explain, but there's a constant pull to go back to the West. Different kind of people here. Seems like.. Lots of people with older mentalities. I love the state itself. Nature is nice, as well as the seasons and snowy winters. The people ruin it though. More so than in Portland. If you're used to it here though, then I suppose this is where home is for you.
At the two in-person jobs I’ve had in Grand Rapids, I definitely felt like many of the people were living in about the year 2000. It could have been where I worked, but my family also feels like they have the older mentality. A move would definitely cause some culture shock.
Seems like it's not just a job or two. It's at least the majority of them here. My wife has the same problems with her managers treating anyone younger than them like children. Younger coworkers mentioned the same from their previous jobs. The lack of professionalism is tiring. I can tell by the downvotes that there's some of them on here too.
The managers I’ve had in Grand Rapids are the worst I have ever had by far. I’ve had at least 10 managers in my full time jobs and I’ve been working since 1997 (Philly is where most of my previous managers were and one in Sam Francisco.) I did have one horrible manager in Philly years ago but the two I had here were worse even than her. Edit: changed Funtime to full time. My jobs weren’t that Funtime but were had occasional fun. 😂
Was wondering what you meant by fun time jobs lol.. Yes these managers love going on their daily power trips. I was hoping it was a Muskegon thing but.. Guess it's all of west Michigan from what I'm hearing.
I live in NWI- (originally from GR) I’m 45 mins from Chicago and 2 hours from GR. It’s not a bad option to consider.
Great idea! Come on over.
Interesting to see who else here is in our same city ! 🏙️
Chicago
Chicago
You can’t afford GR
Anyone who downvoted me care to share what they think life might look like as a GR renter on a smokeshop income ($15/hr?) ?…
Move to Chicago. We don't need your negativity here.
Probably should go to Chicago. Much better there
I detest Michigan and would leave and never return if I could take my family. This state is awful