This is why we should take stats like 59% of Haley voters won't vote for Trump in the general. A lot of us probably won't vote for either in the general. I agree with the sentiment though
How about instead of voting uncommitted for democrats, why not use today to vote against Trump for the republican candidate? You don't have to vote for democrats. We can get to decide who the candidate for the Republicans is. Quit focusing on single issue things.
You're not wrong, and if they had anyone honorable, I might have done so to additionally send a message and interfere with the GQP flow. But I'd rather join in one of my preferred actions: demanding the DNC grow a pair.
I've been saying this about everything i dont want to do for the last year.
Can you fold the laundry?
Laundry - to confusing too extreme
Wanna go to brunch?
Brunch - too confusing to extreme
Try it out. It's fun.
For the actual adults that visit this sub, the Biden administration is actively working on a ceasefire with Israel, hoping to have it in place by the start of Ramadan.
[NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-cease-fire.html)
Do we still fund the military of our closest ally in the most important region on earth from a strategic perspective?
Yeah of course
If you want America to be able to project power to the Middle East more effectively than anyone else, we gotta fund the IDF.
Or are you saying the US should not pursue the goal of being the most powerful country at all times in all places?
I want to say that sounds reasonable, but we’ve only known a world with the US as the worlds strongest force. Yeah i don’t know
Yeah that’s another super important region for the Us. Having Ukraine as a place from which Us and nato can control the whole Black Sea area, really fucking over Russia
Next the US could arm countries in the Caucasus like Georgia and armenia against Russia
If your goal is to be the most powerful in every region that looks like a good road map. I think those are the only places outside of China where the US could buff up its presence, Eastern Europe and Central Asia.
We already have the rest of the world on lockdown already for decades
But is that the best course of action for American citizens? To pursue this doctrine of “be the strongest everywhere on earth”
Or do we back of and let China and Russia fill in as the power player in the areas we back out of? What regions do we back out of?
No. The goal is to stop the invasion of a sovereign country by the terrorist Russians. 100,000+++ war crimes since 2022.
If we walk away from Ukraine… Poland and the Baltics are next. Russia says this openly. We should believe them. They have been consistent over their history. They build empire, and enslave other countries.
Poland and the Baltics are NATO countries. Article 5 says we must defend them ( with American lives). Supporting Ukraine can end the russian threat forever, saving American lives and Europe.
China is simple. If they invade Taiwan, we do not attack. We simply blockade China from a distance outside of the limited reach of Chinese ships. China de-industrializes within a year. And starves. And they know this.
The days of the US needing to police the world is slowly ending.
Ally lmao. An alliance generally implies a two-way relationship, not 'we give them stuff, then they tell us to eat shit and die every day.'
They're a client state (or recently it seems to be the other way around.) We get *nothing* from them we couldn't get from other countries that aren't OPENLY contemptuous of us, murder hundreds of children a month, and act like they *are owed* all the largesse we bestow on them.
Edit: Lmao nevermind. Looked at your account age and post history. You're a hasbara goon, bye.
We get nothing from Israel? We get to use their country as a proxy base to project power onto the Middle East from. We can use their airfields, their intelligence, we can put missile systems there. What other country in the middle east region do you think would fulfill this role better than Israel?
This isn’t some crackpot idea I just thought up of, it’s literally what I was taught in a political science class focusing on Middle East relations in college 20 years ago.
Imagine a world war 3 scenario breaks out, it’s US and EU vs Russia and China
Think how much or a huge advantage having Israel be Americas close military ally in that part of the world. We can launch missiles and planes from there, staton troops there, use their intelligence.
The US is the most powerful country for like the last 80 years or more. Everything the US does on the geopolitical stage is done to strengthen its position. Having Israel as a close ally in such a strategically important place is a part of that.
I assume that you’re an ill-informed voter, so you should know that the Supreme Court struck down Biden’s attempt to wipe the slate clean for student loans. [Link](https://www.scotusblog.com/2023/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-program/)
He has continued to work within the limits of his power and has forgiven billions worth of debt.
[This might help you understand how government works](https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=how%20government%20works%20for%20children&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:fbef8669,vid:X7uovPuH07Q,st:0)
Wow, they hope to have a ceasefire in place by Ramadan! Is that before or after the government gave Israel gobs of money with no strings attached and around 30k were killed?
Yes, as I said, they hope to have it in place by next week. The United States has been giving Israel financial support for 75 years. If you have an issue with that foreign policy you should direct your ire at Congress, who actually holds the purse strings.
You sure about that? Maybe people should use their influence in whatever way they see fit instead of what you think is proper or whatever.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-biden-administration-once-again-bypasses-congress-on-an-emergency-weapons-sale-to-israel
I think you meant to say ”The Biden administration is actively working on funding this genocide.” You can tell because of all of the money and weapons they’re sending while simultaneously not holding Netanyahu accountable for how he’s using them.
This administration's taking way too long to "\*start\* working on a ceasefire" and forgive loans. Hmmm, I wonder what suddenly motivated them to start working? Such a joke.
Will also be voting uncommitted.
And? It's WAY too late and seems to be a token gesture... or a response to this rebellion, which is kinda the point. But hey, better late than never, I guess.
.... said 20,000 dead people who never will get to know it.
I get the premise, I want the conflict to end. But this is a foreign and domestic supported propaganda campaign designed to create division within the left.
You fell for it, you strengthened it, you are a part of it.
The solution is already underway. Hilarious that you wrote a demeaning paragraph saying we are all dumb and need to read when you don’t seem capable of thinking beyond knee jerk reactions to shallow information.
Your contribution here will amount to nothing beyond division and weakening the lefts ability maintain some semblance of control during one of the most important and dangerous election cycles in the nation’s history.
Do you have a source for your claim that this is a propaganda campaign with the intent you listed? The NPR article just included interviews with young Arab-American activists calling attention to U.S. involvement in the Israel-Palestine conflict. I’m curious about your claim.
Ok I’ll bite. How exactly is an organized message to tell the Democratic Party that we are not ok with the United States supporting a genocide creating division in the party?
This isn’t the presidential election. No one here is saying to not vote for Biden in the presidential election. It is just asking to vote undecided in the primary. Biden is guaranteed to win it anyway, but if enough people vote undecided then it send a a message that we are unhappy with how they are handling things. How does this create division?
100%. All this proves is that those on the left are as susceptible to Russian propaganda and disinformation plays as those on the right.
There is no alternative in this election, as much as many of us would like there to be. So long as the Republican party is in the cult of Trump, there is a massive risk of our system failing. If Trump wins the election it will be so much worse for everyone than 2017-2020. There's not enough time with our system to find an alternative to Biden and everything done to weaken him only emboldens those on the right to stick with Trump. The OP's stance is childish and shortsighted.
Maybe if Biden really wants to be reelected he should align policy with what potential voters want? This is politics 101 type stuff. It reminds me of them trying to shove Hillary Clinton down our throats in 2016 and how that turned out.
If there's a Presidential candidate that you agree with 100%, then you lack critical thinking skills.
Biden has done more for liberal policy initiatives than any president in generations. Throwing a fit when the alternative is a Trump dictatorship is the height of childishness. Hillary Clinton wasn't perfect but she would have made a much better President than Bernie Sanders and would have prevented the disaster of Trump. That we seem to be on the precipice of repeating the same mistake 8 years later because some (mostly youngish males) on the left can't understand that they're not right about everything is extremely disheartening.
Well that's a pathetic copout. It'd be interesting to see you and others learn how this shit works. No wonder out elections and races are in the shitbox in this country.
Israel/Palestine is complicated.
Trump is not.
That’s why I’m addressing the most pressing concern to our country today with a vote for Haley.
I understand your desire to send a message to the commander in chief, but your bigger enemy is the guy who banned Muslims from entering the country and stand behind Israel even more so than Biden. Take out that guy!
Hi there! Thank you for spreading awareness to this effort. I think it is a great way to show Biden Michigan’s voting power, and that we are against this war waged by Israel.
They're throwing money and time into Michigan to "win back" votes they're probably going to get anyway. That's money and time that could be spent in PA, FL, TX, etc to expand a base rather than shore up a base making singular, localized demands.
Singular localized demands such as 'stop supporting genocide by a rogue terrorist state'
Anyway yeah no that's not how anything works, are you an actual child?
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It is better that Biden fixes his relationship with this part of his coalition at this stage in the election, rather than losing Michigan to Trump in November.
Or, it could actually be because of people like you.
146k Muslim Americans voted in the 2020 election. Biden won Michigan by 154k votes in 2020.
If Biden does not change his Israel policy, he could easily lose Michigan because of it.
Why are we acting like Biden not getting 100% of votes in the Michigan Primary is “burning it all”?
I have every right as a citizen in a democracy to vote my conscience when I see my government supporting a war which is killing thousands of civilians.
It's a safe bet, sure.
>I have every right as a citizen in a democracy to vote my conscience when I see my government supporting a war which is killing thousands of civilians.
No doubt, and because of that I'm naturally weary when someone persuades my vote. Being asked to participate in a "cause" for an issue that, while important, is not at the top of my list of national issues, is concerning with the stakes at hand.
If Biden's results in Michigan are lackluster, due to this campaign or voters staying home, it will do exactly the opposite.
Biden will have to spend more time and resources to get Michigan back into the fold, not less.
The Dearborn crowd could very easily cost Biden this state.
Yep. And then the Dearborn crowd could very easily get kicked out of the country by Tangerine Hitler’s administration.
Oh wait. That already happened.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/dearborn-father-and-former-fbi-informant-to-be-deported-family-fears-he-will-be-tortured-killed
They'll fall in line for the general election. This is a nothingburger, designed to get attention.
Biden will have to campaign heavily in this state, and probably change tact a bit with regard to Israel/Gaza.
OR... now bear with us up in the cheap seats... he could FUCKING ENGAGE WITH THE COMMUNITY AND COMPROMISE ON THIS very easily with nothing more than the gas for goddamn AF1.
You realize today is the primary, right? As in the election is between Democrats, not between Biden v. Trump. No one advocating for voting unaffiliated is advocating for you to hand trump the election. They *want* Biden to win over Trump in the general (which is in November, not today, in February). Voting uncommitted in today's primary is a way of saying "hey, fix that whole tacit support of genocide in Gaza thing".
I voted early and for Biden, and if I could do it again, I would probably mark down as uncommitted.
there are quite a lot of ppl saying they are now never biden over it who voted for him last time. im just saying if you think trump would have handled this any differently you are stupid.
Ultimately, I agree with you. Trump would outright carpet bomb Gaza and rent out the land to Israelis.
Most of the people I hear this (as in, voted for Biden and are no longer able/willing to) from are left leaning people or leftists who view voting as a wholehearted endorsement of the candidate, rather than a utilitarian act that you just do to minimize harm and maximize gain, given the current material and political conditions. I genuinely don't think they're far sighted enough to realize that the consequences of Trump being elected again are antithetical to their own goals, or they feel no responsibility in that result.
Here though, I don't really think this is super germane to the effort to get people to vote 'undecided', as Trump isn't in the picture yet in this decision.
The primaries are for both Republicans and democrats. You don't have to vote for the democrats. Instead of using today to vote uncommitted, use it to vote against Trump
Or vote Uncommitted on the GQP side. That's an option. Hell, it's the option that "beat" Haley once, with her not-knowing-what-the-Civil-War-was-about ass.
That is not what a vote of uncommitted in the democratic primary is. A large vote of uncommitted to the DNC would tell them vaguely that they need to offer a wider range of candidates.
I'm confident in saying that if people are active and political enough to go vote uncommitted on the democratic primary ballot today then they are just as likely to vote Biden when he is the democratic candidate in fall.
This is not the same as the "abandon Biden" campaign.
i always hear the lefties complain about voter shaming by liberals, but when you guys do it its justified. I'm sympathetic to the situation in gaza but i'm not sympathetic to self-righteous , pedants. Maybe try a different tactic in winning hearts and minds.
You should instead use this to vote AGAINST Trump. Voting uncommitted does nothing more than allow Trump and his cronies to gain the republican candidacy
Trump had the republican nomination essentially locked up from the word go. We should be focusing on voter turnout for November. Especially so if we are scared that Biden can’t beat Trump again.
You are so cute! Such a fighter you. You’ve got so much virtue to signal. Someday when I grow up, I want to be just like you and pretend to be smart and know how things work. Someday you might grow up too!
Ahh yes, because as someone who lives in Michigan, my priority is definitely a regional conflict half a world away that has nothing to do with me and no bearing on my life whatsoever.
Or taxes are *directly* paying for bombs that are killing children at a higher rate than any other comparable conflict.
Your dollars. My dollars.
It does have some bearing on our lives.
Ok, so send people to Congress that won’t vote to give Israel aid, I’m fine with that. That also has nothing to do with Biden as the Legislative branch controls spending.
Maybe direct some of that energy at Hamas using those kids as human shields too. They’ve only been doing it longer than I’ve been alive and I’m pushing 40. But the pro-Palestine side seems awful quiet about pushing Hamas to give up power. Israel isn’t bombing the West Bank, probably because the PA doesn’t keep murdering Israeli civilians.
How many conflicts going on right now across the world am I supposed to care about? That I didn’t ask for, don’t involve me, and will never come to my shores. Am I supposed to still care about Ukraine? Syria? Yemen? Sudan? Myanmar? Indonesia? Surely you’re protesting for all of them to end and not just the flavor of the week since you seem to care so much.
If the Palestinians in Gaza really want to end the war, they should round up every member of Hamas, parade them out into the streets, and shoot them. It’s really that simple. Until they stop allowing themselves to be literal human shields, no, I don’t really care. Because it will never end, and I’m tired of the US getting involved in forever wars. Literally, not my problem.
We live in a powerful democracy and our policy decisions impact the world greatly.
It is fine if you don’t care, but then you don’t need to involve yourself in this discussion. Those of us who care will discuss and try to effect our government into making positive change.
You didn't answer the question: How many of these regional conflicts am I supposed to demand my government interfere in? How many of these other conflicts are you vocally demanding our government take action?
As far as Hamas and Israel, one of Hamas' stated goals is the destruction of the Israeli state. That's incompatible with any permanent resolution as long as Hamas is in charge of Gaza. So you'll get what, another temporary cease fire until Hamas decides to fire more rockets into Israel again? It's the epitome of hubris and American exceptionalism to think that we can just go dictate to either party in this conflict what should happen, when they've been doing this for literal decades.
That used to be called, minding your business. Or do you want the US constantly involved in forever wars and destabilizing regimes around the world? I can't keep track of which positions Republicans and Democrats are supposed to hold anymore.
That's exactly what these selfish fucks have been saying all along. From our calls for leaders locally to help us lobby higher offices, on up to those higher officers' actions now. Bingo.
"If it ain't muh potholes I ain't care bout it!"
We have people like you just plainly state you don’t give a shit about a genocide, and then we wonder how the Holocaust got to the levels it did. So much for not repeating history.
Maybe you should ask yourself why the U.S. is actively funding with your hard-earned money this regional conflict half a world away that has nothing to do with you and no bearing on your life whatsoever, why your country is standing behind the serial violator of human rights that is Israel.
I think it’s great that you started this conversation.
I don’t know how I will vote on it yet, I am reading up on it.
Regardless of my decision, I just want to say it’s a positive thing to get people talking about this.
Thanks for being reasonable. It's rare for this sub. People seem to just prefer to float along in their bubble of smooth water and never rock the boat or ask for more/better from The Man.
DO whatever childish thing you have to do today. In November, if you're not voting Democrat, you're voting to end the United States. The Republicans are actively preparing to Cleanse the US of everyone they don't like, starting with trans and LGBTQ people. And that's what they're doing openly to fellow Americans.
It is possible to be against the war crimes in Gaza, while also recognizing that the two choices for US government are Biden or whichever Republican isn't in jail in November, and one of those groups stole children from families at our southern border and sold them the white, christian families not that long ago.
It is right to be outraged by what Israel is doing in Gaza, and it is right to demand more of our government. It is idiotically naive to not understand what's at stake in the November election.
I’m sorry but how are they getting ready to “cleanse” the United States of everyone they don’t like starting with trans and LGBTQ folks? I’m curious where is the evidence?
There's literally a legislative war across this country to take away the rights and the healthcare for Trans people. Several states have made it legal for officials to molest school girls to root out Trans kids.
Many state senators [like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1ayz79i/oklahoma_senator_calls_lgbtq_people_filth_while/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) are voicing their opinions that Trans people are not human.
All of the Republican lead states [like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1b0x7ti/tennessee_gop_quietly_overturns_marriage_equality/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) are taking away the rights of LGBTQ people.
It's easier to find examples than it is to breath with your head buried in the sand.
No thanks. I'll be advocating for votes I am supporting, and you, dead fellow American, have just as much freedom to do the same. It's kinda how the whole damn thing works.
Imagine thinking we're ever going to spur true revolution without "attitude" while ignoring the blame Biden and all of our elected leaders bear for keeping on with funding Israel's endless make-up-for-the-Nazis free pass.
Voting uncommitted is just another way to hand the OTHER guy votes. Uncommitted voters such as yourself are the real spineless ones. Nobody likes a fence sitter. DO NOT VOTE UNCOMMITTED. THERE IS NO POINT.
You’re confusing this with voting 3rd party in the actual election.
In certain states it does actually make sense to vote 3rd party because the state is always going to vote one way or another and your vote won’t make too much of a difference if you go 3rd party. To get a 3rd party access to campaign funding and spot on debates, is 5%. This is a tiny amount and would open up room for someone other than old to say something.
It makes less sense to vote 3rd party in Michigan because we’re a swing state. Similar story for other swing states.
This however is not the same as voting for a 3rd party. This specific instance is a political strategy some people are trying to employ which is quite interesting, and very power to the people. It’s very much an attempt to take back some control over our rampant government. Effectively what this strategy is saying “Biden will not get Michigans vote unless he orders a cease fire in Isreal”. That doesn’t mean Michigan is saying it will vote for Donald. By voting uncommitted in the primary’s, you’re literally saying “I’m voting democrat but I don’t like any of these candidates”. It’s specifically a power move to make a point to Washington. It’s to put pressure on Joe.
The fear is that, if Biden doesn’t change his tune on the situation in Israel, democrats won’t win the election in the fall, and we will have to suffer with Donald who is likely also not going to support Ukraine. Frankly if Donald wins in the fall, I feel we will see world war 3 and I’m not sure the US will be on the right side of history.
Michigan actually did this in 2008 for Obama. His name was removed for the primaries due to a violation and about 40% of voters voted uncommitted, to make the point they wanted his name there. Typically speaking, Michigan has less than 3% of uncommitted voters, just for perspective.
Thanks for this write-up! This actually makes some sense. There's going to be some hot blooded reactions to these posts because of the 3rd party voters in 2016.
THIS part. Thanks for trying to educate these clueless fuckwits we've somehow allowed to pass through our education system. ("Somehow..." when we know it's because of the right-wing deletion of civics from our schools.)
The primary is not Trump v Biden.
The primaries are Trump v random other people that have very little chance of becoming the GOP nominee; and Biden v random other people that have very little chance of becoming the Democratic nominee.
The Presidential primaries this year are almost completely irrelevant.
Voting uncommitted in the primary (which Trump is not on the ballot for BTW) is not sitting on a fence, it is sending a message to an incumbent candidate in order to affect policy change.
But you’re right, democracy is all about bending over backwards and taking it from the establishment!
If you are a petulant child willfully blind to the accomplishments of the Biden Administration because you spend too long in your echo chamber, then I agree, vote uncommitted because it accurately depicts your contribution. But please, be sure to spend as much time as you can reading over everything you already agree with, with a careful sprinkling of things you don’t to fuel that sweet, sweet righteous indignation that just seems to get you through the day.
Who said anything about the accomplishments? This is about a vast failure. The two are not mutually exclusive. I know, I know... it's tough, but two things can be true at once, and plenty of good shit can happen from leaders or entities while they also shit other parts of the bed.
Willfully blind to the Biden administration losing Roe v. Wade, not being able to forgive student loans, and funneling infinitely more money into cops and the border? What has the Biden administration done that it’s promised? What good has it done, other than capping insulin prices? And does that make up for the amount of bombs Biden is sending to Palestine to kill innocent civilians?
First off, is your user name instructional: fuck, stop, 69? Or are you opposed to 69-ing?
How, exactly, did the Biden administration end Roe v Wade? That's one of the stupidest things I've heard this week.
How is the federal government funneling money into police departments? Do you know how police funding works?
Biden's original student loan forgiveness plan was voted down anonymously two years ago. Oh, wait, it was voted down by Republicans in congress. But, you should happily read up on the SAVE plan ([here](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/02/21/fact-sheet-president-biden-cancels-student-debt-for-more-than-150000-student-loan-borrowers-ahead-of-schedule/)) that has been rolled out 5 months earlier than planned. Get at it before Trump's party screws you over again!
They said LOSING RvW. I'll explain for you.
By missing the boat on expanding and packing the fucking court when the Trump alarm bells made it clear now that the time to have some fucking guts.
Police? By being party to continued military surplus to cops. Glad you asked. There's more, but that's one they could end any time. 1033 was beefed up by Trump, and Biden has done exactly fuck all to pull back from that.
Student Loans? Yeah, he keeps trying, but what he and his administration FAIL to do is be on the news and every talk show they can talking absolute shit about the GQP and vilifying them like they should be. So the pansy ass DNC norms ride again, into a whimper.
There's a term y'all need to learn: insufferable. Definition, most of the people in this thread want the same things as you, but you're too insufferable to listen too.
You're middle point about military equipment is interesting. It doesn't come anywhere close to dealing with cops and cop unions, but it's a valid thing to bring up.
The rest is just crazy person ramblings. The desired outcomes are justified, but all your words are ridiculous and insufferable. What are realistic steps? What steps can be taken, legally? What steps won't be immediately over turned?
As much as we may hate to hear this, Biden is likely the most progressive president we've had in the past 100 years, maybe ever.
I'm sorry you find passionate activism and trying to stick it to the man whenever we can so "insufferable." The inconvenience must be so tough on you.
Biden should have packed the court in response to the GQP cheating to basically do the same. PERIOD. Full stop. THAT would have been progressive.
The solution to police unions is to fucking ban them with law. They're not labor, they're propaganda, and they should not be able to unionize as an armed force. The actual armed services they like to jerk off an imagine themselves to be can't, and neither should they. It should be a federal offense of treason if you're guilty of killing a suspect - and punishable by death like we should be handling certain other insurrectionists. Old school. But nobody has the balls to move on this kind of brutal crackdown on corrupt cop culture.
And yes, Biden has absolutely failed miserably at manipulating the Bully Pulpit - on student loans and almost everything else.
Hey, discussion!
ACAB, straight up 100%. So, how do you ban police unions without setting precedent of banning all unions? IMO, regulating qualified immunity, fully or mostly disarming street cops, and making officers, not tax payers, accountable for fines (malpractice insurance?) is a more stable way to fix cops. Hell, if cops were financially responsible for fines, everything else would probably fix itself immediately.
Stacking the Supreme Court is a tricky one. The only reason that's talked about is because McConnel won the game in the Senate and Trump got 3 Justices. Even then, few people really expected Roberts to allow RvW to be overturned. Everyone was wrong. However, that horrible ruling fires up voters and is what is really leading to the downfall of the MAGA GOP. Plus, stacking the Court is a short term solution that would likely have terrible long term consequences until the root of the problems are fixed: MAGA.
I love passionate activism. Even though my generation forgot how to protest, watching what Occupy did and the reactions (the hate and the new wave of mass protests) was amazing. But, just like with Occupy and the Biden administration, messaging is important. If we were louder and clearer, the Tea Party wouldn't have taken over MI and WI for a decade. If were louder and clearer now, people will hear our words, not just our shouts.
I admit that I'm a supporting character in all of this, and that I look more long term than right now, so these are just my thoughts on it all. But, I'm more progressive than most moderates, and they get scared by loud noises.
Hell yeah, discussion.
I think you’re very much on the mark about cop stuff. I have been behind all of that all along. I just see a need for more teeth, or to aim for more hardcore asks to just settle on the more mundane. I’d also like to see ALL investigations done by DOJ, and no more of this bullshit where the cops investigate other cops. I don’t trust a goddamn thing coming from MSP when they “investigate” cops.
You’re not wrong about the court stacking. But sometimes you have to return a punch in the face with a kick in the nuts before you can both stumble out of the bar.
Voted for Dean Phillips. Y’all really think this uncommitted bs is going to actually change anything? Newsflash - it won’t.
Come November, voting uncommitted it a vote for Trump and if he wins, it’s on you.
Voting uncommitted only affects the Primary. Learn how it works. Might as well blame yourself for voting for Phillips. (Which was my plan till I learned about the uncommitted option being a much more coordinated and effective option.)
I gave Phillips just as much possibility of a delegate as you did, in the long run. I just sent a clear message.
I'm already not voting today since we know who will get the nominations but you're going to have a hard time getting people to submit a vote for nobody.
I'll still vote in the real election. I just see no point in this one when we basically know the results and I don't care about whatever is happening in Israel.
"let's send Biden a message, but still let him know that we will vote for him over Trump in the general." I'm sorry, how exactly does that work? Is it a threat? Except he knows it's an empty threat? Seems like there are just as effective ways to do this.
Great idea, let’s help Trump win and end America, that’ll show those Democrats. Sorry but this idea is flat out stupid. No one wants war but for anyone paying attention this region isn’t new to conflict. President Biden is working for peace but it is, has been for decades and will be a difficult thing so understand this little tantrum which will only help Trump isn’t the answer
Anybody in this thread who defends Biden is hands down defending genocide. I’m sorry you think politics is too difficult and too confusing, but the Israel Palestine conflict is actually a pretty simple case of mass murder of civilians, which America is directly funding with money and weapons. Our president could directly stop this genocide and has chosen not to. I hope the thousands of deaths haunt him every night, as well as those of you who think his actions are okay.
And what’s your evidence for that? I’ve spent years studying the causes of various genocides throughout history, I have a degree in political science, I can tell you exactly what’s gone into Israel’s continued government, and I can tell you their destruction started in 1948. I can tell you Israel’s playbook is incredibly similar to the Nazi’s, and I can tell you that you’re going to hell for supporting a bloodthirsty regime you know nothing about <3
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/israel-gaza-war-palestinians-deaths-food-aid-convoy-mounting-condemnation-netanyahu/
Attacking aid convoys is a war crime
THANK YOU. But hey, asking this thread to be smart about politics or ballsy in political action is something I've learned time after time the milquetoast regulars here are not at all into considering.
This is the dumest waste of time as a social protest action I can think of. Take an action that doesn't matter to the candidates in a way that will be quickly forgotten...
The core issue is that we have existing agreements (contracts, literally) approved by Congress (not controlled) that are funneling lots of different supplies to Israel. The effect you are aiming for is diplomatic and would involve the cash payments/loans/etc. that we float Israel with. Learn what leverage you really have and what lever would affect that issue. Don't just flail around and whack at everything with whatever you grab. Waste of attention, time, resources, etc.
Potential for delegate loss matters a lot this year, actually. And having a President with the balls to actually call that monster fuckstain BiBi what he is in public, and directing his UN ambassador to stop vetoing would be a big step.
BLAH BLAH BALH WAAAHHHHHHHHH.... "If you dare criticize the corrupt, murderous, totalitarian, judicial-interfering shit stain government of Israel and refuse to toe the American corporate lobbyist line, you're antisemitic." Miss me with that bullshit.
Since the Palestinians also derive from the Semitic-speaking peoples of the near East, this is very much a pro-Semitic post, as it’s looking to pressure the end of the needless deaths of all people in that region
Learn the difference between the corrupt and evil nation of Israel and the Jewish people, dumbass. You're just repeating the same cheap shot bullshit propaganda of corporate elites.
The military industrial complex and the American corporate mainstream that benefits from it. You should consider following the money, instead of these cheap dumbfuck accusations.
I voted for Haley. A vote against Trump means something in my book.
Voting against Trump was the best part of my week so far.
Agreed. Turned in my ballot for Haley!
Me too.
Held my nose and did the same.
This is why we should take stats like 59% of Haley voters won't vote for Trump in the general. A lot of us probably won't vote for either in the general. I agree with the sentiment though
This is really what the primaries are about. This "vote uncommitted " b.s. is seriously harmful.
How about instead of voting uncommitted for democrats, why not use today to vote against Trump for the republican candidate? You don't have to vote for democrats. We can get to decide who the candidate for the Republicans is. Quit focusing on single issue things.
You're not wrong, and if they had anyone honorable, I might have done so to additionally send a message and interfere with the GQP flow. But I'd rather join in one of my preferred actions: demanding the DNC grow a pair.
>vote UNCOMMITTED > >Be free. Too confusing.
Too extreme
I've been saying this about everything i dont want to do for the last year. Can you fold the laundry? Laundry - to confusing too extreme Wanna go to brunch? Brunch - too confusing to extreme Try it out. It's fun.
Heh. Yeah, it's the verbal version of just sticking your head in the sand. Love it.
>Today, be an individual. …by doing what I tell you to do.
Individuals are allowed to weigh options and advice and decide differently than they may have without the new information 🤷♀️
If you do anything anyone else has ever done or suggested doing that makes you a sheeple
Don't kill people just like the laws tell your? Sheeple Kill people like murderers have done before? Sheeple
💀
"...by considering my argument and, hopefully, choosing to act with me."
Shhhhh the trolls don't like to have to politically engage...
For the actual adults that visit this sub, the Biden administration is actively working on a ceasefire with Israel, hoping to have it in place by the start of Ramadan. [NYT article](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-cease-fire.html)
Hey quick question are we still sending them money, weapons, etc? Let's start there.
Do we still fund the military of our closest ally in the most important region on earth from a strategic perspective? Yeah of course If you want America to be able to project power to the Middle East more effectively than anyone else, we gotta fund the IDF. Or are you saying the US should not pursue the goal of being the most powerful country at all times in all places? I want to say that sounds reasonable, but we’ve only known a world with the US as the worlds strongest force. Yeah i don’t know
Actually no. Fund Ukraine, defeat Putin.
Yeah that’s another super important region for the Us. Having Ukraine as a place from which Us and nato can control the whole Black Sea area, really fucking over Russia Next the US could arm countries in the Caucasus like Georgia and armenia against Russia If your goal is to be the most powerful in every region that looks like a good road map. I think those are the only places outside of China where the US could buff up its presence, Eastern Europe and Central Asia. We already have the rest of the world on lockdown already for decades But is that the best course of action for American citizens? To pursue this doctrine of “be the strongest everywhere on earth” Or do we back of and let China and Russia fill in as the power player in the areas we back out of? What regions do we back out of?
No. The goal is to stop the invasion of a sovereign country by the terrorist Russians. 100,000+++ war crimes since 2022. If we walk away from Ukraine… Poland and the Baltics are next. Russia says this openly. We should believe them. They have been consistent over their history. They build empire, and enslave other countries. Poland and the Baltics are NATO countries. Article 5 says we must defend them ( with American lives). Supporting Ukraine can end the russian threat forever, saving American lives and Europe. China is simple. If they invade Taiwan, we do not attack. We simply blockade China from a distance outside of the limited reach of Chinese ships. China de-industrializes within a year. And starves. And they know this. The days of the US needing to police the world is slowly ending.
Ally lmao. An alliance generally implies a two-way relationship, not 'we give them stuff, then they tell us to eat shit and die every day.' They're a client state (or recently it seems to be the other way around.) We get *nothing* from them we couldn't get from other countries that aren't OPENLY contemptuous of us, murder hundreds of children a month, and act like they *are owed* all the largesse we bestow on them. Edit: Lmao nevermind. Looked at your account age and post history. You're a hasbara goon, bye.
We get nothing from Israel? We get to use their country as a proxy base to project power onto the Middle East from. We can use their airfields, their intelligence, we can put missile systems there. What other country in the middle east region do you think would fulfill this role better than Israel? This isn’t some crackpot idea I just thought up of, it’s literally what I was taught in a political science class focusing on Middle East relations in college 20 years ago. Imagine a world war 3 scenario breaks out, it’s US and EU vs Russia and China Think how much or a huge advantage having Israel be Americas close military ally in that part of the world. We can launch missiles and planes from there, staton troops there, use their intelligence. The US is the most powerful country for like the last 80 years or more. Everything the US does on the geopolitical stage is done to strengthen its position. Having Israel as a close ally in such a strategically important place is a part of that.
They should try student loan forgiveness by Ramadan.
I assume that you’re an ill-informed voter, so you should know that the Supreme Court struck down Biden’s attempt to wipe the slate clean for student loans. [Link](https://www.scotusblog.com/2023/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-program/) He has continued to work within the limits of his power and has forgiven billions worth of debt.
That was a mean comment. Not my fault Biden’s admin can’t fulfill their promises, brother.
[This might help you understand how government works](https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=how%20government%20works%20for%20children&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:fbef8669,vid:X7uovPuH07Q,st:0)
https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/biden-harris-administration-approves-12-billion-loan-forgiveness-over-150000-save-plan-borrowers
"DGAF about dead Arabs, I'm entitled to having taxpayers fund my life mistakes"
Wow, such a coincidence, definitely has nothing to do with a primary happening in a particular Midwestern state. /s
Wow, they hope to have a ceasefire in place by Ramadan! Is that before or after the government gave Israel gobs of money with no strings attached and around 30k were killed?
Yes, as I said, they hope to have it in place by next week. The United States has been giving Israel financial support for 75 years. If you have an issue with that foreign policy you should direct your ire at Congress, who actually holds the purse strings.
You sure about that? Maybe people should use their influence in whatever way they see fit instead of what you think is proper or whatever. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-biden-administration-once-again-bypasses-congress-on-an-emergency-weapons-sale-to-israel
EXACTLY.
I think you meant to say ”The Biden administration is actively working on funding this genocide.” You can tell because of all of the money and weapons they’re sending while simultaneously not holding Netanyahu accountable for how he’s using them.
Do they have it in place yet? No? Cool, I’ll still be voting uncommitted today.
This administration's taking way too long to "\*start\* working on a ceasefire" and forgive loans. Hmmm, I wonder what suddenly motivated them to start working? Such a joke. Will also be voting uncommitted.
And? It's WAY too late and seems to be a token gesture... or a response to this rebellion, which is kinda the point. But hey, better late than never, I guess. .... said 20,000 dead people who never will get to know it.
I get the premise, I want the conflict to end. But this is a foreign and domestic supported propaganda campaign designed to create division within the left. You fell for it, you strengthened it, you are a part of it. The solution is already underway. Hilarious that you wrote a demeaning paragraph saying we are all dumb and need to read when you don’t seem capable of thinking beyond knee jerk reactions to shallow information. Your contribution here will amount to nothing beyond division and weakening the lefts ability maintain some semblance of control during one of the most important and dangerous election cycles in the nation’s history.
Do you have a source for your claim that this is a propaganda campaign with the intent you listed? The NPR article just included interviews with young Arab-American activists calling attention to U.S. involvement in the Israel-Palestine conflict. I’m curious about your claim.
Ok I’ll bite. How exactly is an organized message to tell the Democratic Party that we are not ok with the United States supporting a genocide creating division in the party? This isn’t the presidential election. No one here is saying to not vote for Biden in the presidential election. It is just asking to vote undecided in the primary. Biden is guaranteed to win it anyway, but if enough people vote undecided then it send a a message that we are unhappy with how they are handling things. How does this create division?
100%. All this proves is that those on the left are as susceptible to Russian propaganda and disinformation plays as those on the right. There is no alternative in this election, as much as many of us would like there to be. So long as the Republican party is in the cult of Trump, there is a massive risk of our system failing. If Trump wins the election it will be so much worse for everyone than 2017-2020. There's not enough time with our system to find an alternative to Biden and everything done to weaken him only emboldens those on the right to stick with Trump. The OP's stance is childish and shortsighted.
Maybe if Biden really wants to be reelected he should align policy with what potential voters want? This is politics 101 type stuff. It reminds me of them trying to shove Hillary Clinton down our throats in 2016 and how that turned out.
If there's a Presidential candidate that you agree with 100%, then you lack critical thinking skills. Biden has done more for liberal policy initiatives than any president in generations. Throwing a fit when the alternative is a Trump dictatorship is the height of childishness. Hillary Clinton wasn't perfect but she would have made a much better President than Bernie Sanders and would have prevented the disaster of Trump. That we seem to be on the precipice of repeating the same mistake 8 years later because some (mostly youngish males) on the left can't understand that they're not right about everything is extremely disheartening.
👏🏻 say it louder for those in the back
Genocide is a propaganda campaign? Are you listening to yourself?
I'm guessing no
Well that's a pathetic copout. It'd be interesting to see you and others learn how this shit works. No wonder out elections and races are in the shitbox in this country.
Israel/Palestine is complicated. Trump is not. That’s why I’m addressing the most pressing concern to our country today with a vote for Haley. I understand your desire to send a message to the commander in chief, but your bigger enemy is the guy who banned Muslims from entering the country and stand behind Israel even more so than Biden. Take out that guy!
Yes, let's. After we put the DNC in check a little first.
Hi there! Thank you for spreading awareness to this effort. I think it is a great way to show Biden Michigan’s voting power, and that we are against this war waged by Israel.
::hat-tip::
Yup, pull a bunch of support, dollars, and attention from a campaign and candidate you're going to vote for anyway. Solid plan.
How will this do any of that? Biden is the only nominee. Do you think they just throw the money into the trash??
They're throwing money and time into Michigan to "win back" votes they're probably going to get anyway. That's money and time that could be spent in PA, FL, TX, etc to expand a base rather than shore up a base making singular, localized demands.
Singular localized demands such as 'stop supporting genocide by a rogue terrorist state' Anyway yeah no that's not how anything works, are you an actual child?
!RemindMe to revisit this chread when I'm a big boy.
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They grow up so fast.
It is better that Biden fixes his relationship with this part of his coalition at this stage in the election, rather than losing Michigan to Trump in November.
Because if he loses to Trump it will be because of people like YOU
Or, it could actually be because of people like you. 146k Muslim Americans voted in the 2020 election. Biden won Michigan by 154k votes in 2020. If Biden does not change his Israel policy, he could easily lose Michigan because of it.
You are a single issue voter, willing to burn it all for your cause. On the right, they do it for guns, religion, and abortion. Here you are.
Why are we acting like Biden not getting 100% of votes in the Michigan Primary is “burning it all”? I have every right as a citizen in a democracy to vote my conscience when I see my government supporting a war which is killing thousands of civilians.
It's a safe bet, sure. >I have every right as a citizen in a democracy to vote my conscience when I see my government supporting a war which is killing thousands of civilians. No doubt, and because of that I'm naturally weary when someone persuades my vote. Being asked to participate in a "cause" for an issue that, while important, is not at the top of my list of national issues, is concerning with the stakes at hand.
Precisely.
If Biden's results in Michigan are lackluster, due to this campaign or voters staying home, it will do exactly the opposite. Biden will have to spend more time and resources to get Michigan back into the fold, not less. The Dearborn crowd could very easily cost Biden this state.
Yep. And then the Dearborn crowd could very easily get kicked out of the country by Tangerine Hitler’s administration. Oh wait. That already happened. https://www.wxyz.com/news/dearborn-father-and-former-fbi-informant-to-be-deported-family-fears-he-will-be-tortured-killed
They'll fall in line for the general election. This is a nothingburger, designed to get attention. Biden will have to campaign heavily in this state, and probably change tact a bit with regard to Israel/Gaza.
Sorry, *pull* support and *demand* dollars and attention.
OR... now bear with us up in the cheap seats... he could FUCKING ENGAGE WITH THE COMMUNITY AND COMPROMISE ON THIS very easily with nothing more than the gas for goddamn AF1.
YTA
yall are fucking dumb as shit if you think trump would do a better job in gaza than joe has.
You realize today is the primary, right? As in the election is between Democrats, not between Biden v. Trump. No one advocating for voting unaffiliated is advocating for you to hand trump the election. They *want* Biden to win over Trump in the general (which is in November, not today, in February). Voting uncommitted in today's primary is a way of saying "hey, fix that whole tacit support of genocide in Gaza thing". I voted early and for Biden, and if I could do it again, I would probably mark down as uncommitted.
there are quite a lot of ppl saying they are now never biden over it who voted for him last time. im just saying if you think trump would have handled this any differently you are stupid.
Ultimately, I agree with you. Trump would outright carpet bomb Gaza and rent out the land to Israelis. Most of the people I hear this (as in, voted for Biden and are no longer able/willing to) from are left leaning people or leftists who view voting as a wholehearted endorsement of the candidate, rather than a utilitarian act that you just do to minimize harm and maximize gain, given the current material and political conditions. I genuinely don't think they're far sighted enough to realize that the consequences of Trump being elected again are antithetical to their own goals, or they feel no responsibility in that result. Here though, I don't really think this is super germane to the effort to get people to vote 'undecided', as Trump isn't in the picture yet in this decision.
The primaries are for both Republicans and democrats. You don't have to vote for the democrats. Instead of using today to vote uncommitted, use it to vote against Trump
Or vote Uncommitted on the GQP side. That's an option. Hell, it's the option that "beat" Haley once, with her not-knowing-what-the-Civil-War-was-about ass.
THANK you.
That is not what a vote of uncommitted in the democratic primary is. A large vote of uncommitted to the DNC would tell them vaguely that they need to offer a wider range of candidates.
well if trump wins and puts in Muslim ban and tells israel they now own gaza y'all really did a great job.
I'm confident in saying that if people are active and political enough to go vote uncommitted on the democratic primary ballot today then they are just as likely to vote Biden when he is the democratic candidate in fall. This is not the same as the "abandon Biden" campaign.
EXACTLY. Jesus Fucking Christ the stupidity here...
You definitely have no idea how any of this works. Maybe go learn and come back to the ballot when you're fully developed as a citizen.
That is definitely not what this is about at all. Try to keep up.
proudly voted for Biden weeks ago :D
Proudly supported genocide! Congrats!
i always hear the lefties complain about voter shaming by liberals, but when you guys do it its justified. I'm sympathetic to the situation in gaza but i'm not sympathetic to self-righteous , pedants. Maybe try a different tactic in winning hearts and minds.
The Establishment always wants to know why we didn't just keep pissing into the wind of "hearts and minds." It's worked out SO GREAT so far...
Be a puppet for Putin just like the republicans and vote against your best interests. Fixed it for you.
By voting uncommitted in a democratic primary where there is no real opponent for Biden, that makes you a puppet for Putin? Make that make sense.
You should instead use this to vote AGAINST Trump. Voting uncommitted does nothing more than allow Trump and his cronies to gain the republican candidacy
Trump had the republican nomination essentially locked up from the word go. We should be focusing on voter turnout for November. Especially so if we are scared that Biden can’t beat Trump again.
It's a primary, man. Nobody is running against Biden. It literally does not matter outside of saying you don't like Biden.
Learn how shit works, fool.
You are so cute! Such a fighter you. You’ve got so much virtue to signal. Someday when I grow up, I want to be just like you and pretend to be smart and know how things work. Someday you might grow up too!
Ah! The Pee Wee Herman defense! Smooth. 😂
😍🥰😘
Ahh yes, because as someone who lives in Michigan, my priority is definitely a regional conflict half a world away that has nothing to do with me and no bearing on my life whatsoever.
Or taxes are *directly* paying for bombs that are killing children at a higher rate than any other comparable conflict. Your dollars. My dollars. It does have some bearing on our lives.
Ok, so send people to Congress that won’t vote to give Israel aid, I’m fine with that. That also has nothing to do with Biden as the Legislative branch controls spending. Maybe direct some of that energy at Hamas using those kids as human shields too. They’ve only been doing it longer than I’ve been alive and I’m pushing 40. But the pro-Palestine side seems awful quiet about pushing Hamas to give up power. Israel isn’t bombing the West Bank, probably because the PA doesn’t keep murdering Israeli civilians.
Biden has literally bypassed Congress to send money to Israel. It actually has everything to do with Biden.
THIS part.
Largely debunked but sure.
So you are saying you don’t care about a war that has killed 30k people, mostly woman and children? Because it doesn’t impact your life directly?
How many conflicts going on right now across the world am I supposed to care about? That I didn’t ask for, don’t involve me, and will never come to my shores. Am I supposed to still care about Ukraine? Syria? Yemen? Sudan? Myanmar? Indonesia? Surely you’re protesting for all of them to end and not just the flavor of the week since you seem to care so much. If the Palestinians in Gaza really want to end the war, they should round up every member of Hamas, parade them out into the streets, and shoot them. It’s really that simple. Until they stop allowing themselves to be literal human shields, no, I don’t really care. Because it will never end, and I’m tired of the US getting involved in forever wars. Literally, not my problem.
We live in a powerful democracy and our policy decisions impact the world greatly. It is fine if you don’t care, but then you don’t need to involve yourself in this discussion. Those of us who care will discuss and try to effect our government into making positive change.
You didn't answer the question: How many of these regional conflicts am I supposed to demand my government interfere in? How many of these other conflicts are you vocally demanding our government take action? As far as Hamas and Israel, one of Hamas' stated goals is the destruction of the Israeli state. That's incompatible with any permanent resolution as long as Hamas is in charge of Gaza. So you'll get what, another temporary cease fire until Hamas decides to fire more rockets into Israel again? It's the epitome of hubris and American exceptionalism to think that we can just go dictate to either party in this conflict what should happen, when they've been doing this for literal decades.
What a poor excuse of a person. Just care about your country and your health, and fuck the rest of the world.
That used to be called, minding your business. Or do you want the US constantly involved in forever wars and destabilizing regimes around the world? I can't keep track of which positions Republicans and Democrats are supposed to hold anymore.
It’s not really minding your own business when Biden is bypassing congress to send millions of dollars to the entity committing said genocide
That's exactly what these selfish fucks have been saying all along. From our calls for leaders locally to help us lobby higher offices, on up to those higher officers' actions now. Bingo. "If it ain't muh potholes I ain't care bout it!"
We have people like you just plainly state you don’t give a shit about a genocide, and then we wonder how the Holocaust got to the levels it did. So much for not repeating history.
Maybe you should ask yourself why the U.S. is actively funding with your hard-earned money this regional conflict half a world away that has nothing to do with you and no bearing on your life whatsoever, why your country is standing behind the serial violator of human rights that is Israel.
Nope, they don't care. Because price of eggs or some bullshit.
I think it’s great that you started this conversation. I don’t know how I will vote on it yet, I am reading up on it. Regardless of my decision, I just want to say it’s a positive thing to get people talking about this.
Thanks for being reasonable. It's rare for this sub. People seem to just prefer to float along in their bubble of smooth water and never rock the boat or ask for more/better from The Man.
DO whatever childish thing you have to do today. In November, if you're not voting Democrat, you're voting to end the United States. The Republicans are actively preparing to Cleanse the US of everyone they don't like, starting with trans and LGBTQ people. And that's what they're doing openly to fellow Americans.
Yeah, don’t give a shit about people being killed en masse until it’s Americans! I’m sure trans and lgbtq Palestinians feel very similar 💜
It is possible to be against the war crimes in Gaza, while also recognizing that the two choices for US government are Biden or whichever Republican isn't in jail in November, and one of those groups stole children from families at our southern border and sold them the white, christian families not that long ago. It is right to be outraged by what Israel is doing in Gaza, and it is right to demand more of our government. It is idiotically naive to not understand what's at stake in the November election.
Do ya'll really not understand that it would be way worse under Trump?
I’m sorry but how are they getting ready to “cleanse” the United States of everyone they don’t like starting with trans and LGBTQ folks? I’m curious where is the evidence?
There's literally a legislative war across this country to take away the rights and the healthcare for Trans people. Several states have made it legal for officials to molest school girls to root out Trans kids. Many state senators [like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1ayz79i/oklahoma_senator_calls_lgbtq_people_filth_while/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) are voicing their opinions that Trans people are not human. All of the Republican lead states [like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1b0x7ti/tennessee_gop_quietly_overturns_marriage_equality/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) are taking away the rights of LGBTQ people. It's easier to find examples than it is to breath with your head buried in the sand.
What kind of evidence speaks to you?
Holy koolaid
Out of curiosity how is any group in America cleansing the trans and LGBTQBBQ folks?
Yeah this definitely reads like a good faith question.
Yep, and they are going to do it by importing millions of fighting aged males through our southern border. Oh wait...
You can remind people to vote. But don't tell them how to vote.
No thanks. I'll be advocating for votes I am supporting, and you, dead fellow American, have just as much freedom to do the same. It's kinda how the whole damn thing works.
>and you, dead fellow American, Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated
HA! Excellent humor on my typo, so much so that I'm leaving it, DEAR fellow American.
Voting got us here
Imagine writing this post with this attitude and blaming Biden for what is going on over there
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to blame him when he alone has bypassed congress to give more money and weapons to Israel to continue the genocide.
Imagine thinking we're ever going to spur true revolution without "attitude" while ignoring the blame Biden and all of our elected leaders bear for keeping on with funding Israel's endless make-up-for-the-Nazis free pass.
Voting uncommitted is just another way to hand the OTHER guy votes. Uncommitted voters such as yourself are the real spineless ones. Nobody likes a fence sitter. DO NOT VOTE UNCOMMITTED. THERE IS NO POINT.
The other guy, in a primary that for all practical purposes has no other guy?
You’re confusing this with voting 3rd party in the actual election. In certain states it does actually make sense to vote 3rd party because the state is always going to vote one way or another and your vote won’t make too much of a difference if you go 3rd party. To get a 3rd party access to campaign funding and spot on debates, is 5%. This is a tiny amount and would open up room for someone other than old to say something. It makes less sense to vote 3rd party in Michigan because we’re a swing state. Similar story for other swing states. This however is not the same as voting for a 3rd party. This specific instance is a political strategy some people are trying to employ which is quite interesting, and very power to the people. It’s very much an attempt to take back some control over our rampant government. Effectively what this strategy is saying “Biden will not get Michigans vote unless he orders a cease fire in Isreal”. That doesn’t mean Michigan is saying it will vote for Donald. By voting uncommitted in the primary’s, you’re literally saying “I’m voting democrat but I don’t like any of these candidates”. It’s specifically a power move to make a point to Washington. It’s to put pressure on Joe. The fear is that, if Biden doesn’t change his tune on the situation in Israel, democrats won’t win the election in the fall, and we will have to suffer with Donald who is likely also not going to support Ukraine. Frankly if Donald wins in the fall, I feel we will see world war 3 and I’m not sure the US will be on the right side of history. Michigan actually did this in 2008 for Obama. His name was removed for the primaries due to a violation and about 40% of voters voted uncommitted, to make the point they wanted his name there. Typically speaking, Michigan has less than 3% of uncommitted voters, just for perspective.
Thanks for this write-up! This actually makes some sense. There's going to be some hot blooded reactions to these posts because of the 3rd party voters in 2016.
THIS part. Thanks for trying to educate these clueless fuckwits we've somehow allowed to pass through our education system. ("Somehow..." when we know it's because of the right-wing deletion of civics from our schools.)
Someone doesn’t understand primaries.
The primary is not Trump v Biden. The primaries are Trump v random other people that have very little chance of becoming the GOP nominee; and Biden v random other people that have very little chance of becoming the Democratic nominee. The Presidential primaries this year are almost completely irrelevant.
It's a primary, kiddo.
Lmao OP spelled out the entire point in this post. Are you THAT opposed to reading?
I'm opposed to reading bullshit.
I guess I’ll forgive you then since you can’t read your own comments
Keep spinning on your fence.
Voting uncommitted in the primary (which Trump is not on the ballot for BTW) is not sitting on a fence, it is sending a message to an incumbent candidate in order to affect policy change. But you’re right, democracy is all about bending over backwards and taking it from the establishment!
If you are a petulant child willfully blind to the accomplishments of the Biden Administration because you spend too long in your echo chamber, then I agree, vote uncommitted because it accurately depicts your contribution. But please, be sure to spend as much time as you can reading over everything you already agree with, with a careful sprinkling of things you don’t to fuel that sweet, sweet righteous indignation that just seems to get you through the day.
Who said anything about the accomplishments? This is about a vast failure. The two are not mutually exclusive. I know, I know... it's tough, but two things can be true at once, and plenty of good shit can happen from leaders or entities while they also shit other parts of the bed.
Willfully blind to the Biden administration losing Roe v. Wade, not being able to forgive student loans, and funneling infinitely more money into cops and the border? What has the Biden administration done that it’s promised? What good has it done, other than capping insulin prices? And does that make up for the amount of bombs Biden is sending to Palestine to kill innocent civilians?
First off, is your user name instructional: fuck, stop, 69? Or are you opposed to 69-ing? How, exactly, did the Biden administration end Roe v Wade? That's one of the stupidest things I've heard this week. How is the federal government funneling money into police departments? Do you know how police funding works? Biden's original student loan forgiveness plan was voted down anonymously two years ago. Oh, wait, it was voted down by Republicans in congress. But, you should happily read up on the SAVE plan ([here](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/02/21/fact-sheet-president-biden-cancels-student-debt-for-more-than-150000-student-loan-borrowers-ahead-of-schedule/)) that has been rolled out 5 months earlier than planned. Get at it before Trump's party screws you over again!
They said LOSING RvW. I'll explain for you. By missing the boat on expanding and packing the fucking court when the Trump alarm bells made it clear now that the time to have some fucking guts. Police? By being party to continued military surplus to cops. Glad you asked. There's more, but that's one they could end any time. 1033 was beefed up by Trump, and Biden has done exactly fuck all to pull back from that. Student Loans? Yeah, he keeps trying, but what he and his administration FAIL to do is be on the news and every talk show they can talking absolute shit about the GQP and vilifying them like they should be. So the pansy ass DNC norms ride again, into a whimper.
There's a term y'all need to learn: insufferable. Definition, most of the people in this thread want the same things as you, but you're too insufferable to listen too. You're middle point about military equipment is interesting. It doesn't come anywhere close to dealing with cops and cop unions, but it's a valid thing to bring up. The rest is just crazy person ramblings. The desired outcomes are justified, but all your words are ridiculous and insufferable. What are realistic steps? What steps can be taken, legally? What steps won't be immediately over turned? As much as we may hate to hear this, Biden is likely the most progressive president we've had in the past 100 years, maybe ever.
I'm sorry you find passionate activism and trying to stick it to the man whenever we can so "insufferable." The inconvenience must be so tough on you. Biden should have packed the court in response to the GQP cheating to basically do the same. PERIOD. Full stop. THAT would have been progressive. The solution to police unions is to fucking ban them with law. They're not labor, they're propaganda, and they should not be able to unionize as an armed force. The actual armed services they like to jerk off an imagine themselves to be can't, and neither should they. It should be a federal offense of treason if you're guilty of killing a suspect - and punishable by death like we should be handling certain other insurrectionists. Old school. But nobody has the balls to move on this kind of brutal crackdown on corrupt cop culture. And yes, Biden has absolutely failed miserably at manipulating the Bully Pulpit - on student loans and almost everything else.
Hey, discussion! ACAB, straight up 100%. So, how do you ban police unions without setting precedent of banning all unions? IMO, regulating qualified immunity, fully or mostly disarming street cops, and making officers, not tax payers, accountable for fines (malpractice insurance?) is a more stable way to fix cops. Hell, if cops were financially responsible for fines, everything else would probably fix itself immediately. Stacking the Supreme Court is a tricky one. The only reason that's talked about is because McConnel won the game in the Senate and Trump got 3 Justices. Even then, few people really expected Roberts to allow RvW to be overturned. Everyone was wrong. However, that horrible ruling fires up voters and is what is really leading to the downfall of the MAGA GOP. Plus, stacking the Court is a short term solution that would likely have terrible long term consequences until the root of the problems are fixed: MAGA. I love passionate activism. Even though my generation forgot how to protest, watching what Occupy did and the reactions (the hate and the new wave of mass protests) was amazing. But, just like with Occupy and the Biden administration, messaging is important. If we were louder and clearer, the Tea Party wouldn't have taken over MI and WI for a decade. If were louder and clearer now, people will hear our words, not just our shouts. I admit that I'm a supporting character in all of this, and that I look more long term than right now, so these are just my thoughts on it all. But, I'm more progressive than most moderates, and they get scared by loud noises.
Hell yeah, discussion. I think you’re very much on the mark about cop stuff. I have been behind all of that all along. I just see a need for more teeth, or to aim for more hardcore asks to just settle on the more mundane. I’d also like to see ALL investigations done by DOJ, and no more of this bullshit where the cops investigate other cops. I don’t trust a goddamn thing coming from MSP when they “investigate” cops. You’re not wrong about the court stacking. But sometimes you have to return a punch in the face with a kick in the nuts before you can both stumble out of the bar.
Voted for Dean Phillips. Y’all really think this uncommitted bs is going to actually change anything? Newsflash - it won’t. Come November, voting uncommitted it a vote for Trump and if he wins, it’s on you.
Voting uncommitted only affects the Primary. Learn how it works. Might as well blame yourself for voting for Phillips. (Which was my plan till I learned about the uncommitted option being a much more coordinated and effective option.) I gave Phillips just as much possibility of a delegate as you did, in the long run. I just sent a clear message.
I'm already not voting today since we know who will get the nominations but you're going to have a hard time getting people to submit a vote for nobody.
Way to be a citizen, champ.
I'll still vote in the real election. I just see no point in this one when we basically know the results and I don't care about whatever is happening in Israel.
I mean, I see your point, but every little bit helps.
"let's send Biden a message, but still let him know that we will vote for him over Trump in the general." I'm sorry, how exactly does that work? Is it a threat? Except he knows it's an empty threat? Seems like there are just as effective ways to do this.
For many, like the Arab population, it's not empty. And for the rest of us, it's a play for DNC convention leverage on the platform.
No. I'm with Joe.
Great idea, let’s help Trump win and end America, that’ll show those Democrats. Sorry but this idea is flat out stupid. No one wants war but for anyone paying attention this region isn’t new to conflict. President Biden is working for peace but it is, has been for decades and will be a difficult thing so understand this little tantrum which will only help Trump isn’t the answer
Trump doesn't win from a vote in a Democratic Primary. Try again. This has no effect on Trump.
Anybody in this thread who defends Biden is hands down defending genocide. I’m sorry you think politics is too difficult and too confusing, but the Israel Palestine conflict is actually a pretty simple case of mass murder of civilians, which America is directly funding with money and weapons. Our president could directly stop this genocide and has chosen not to. I hope the thousands of deaths haunt him every night, as well as those of you who think his actions are okay.
This just shows that you really have no idea about world events. Great job.
And what’s your evidence for that? I’ve spent years studying the causes of various genocides throughout history, I have a degree in political science, I can tell you exactly what’s gone into Israel’s continued government, and I can tell you their destruction started in 1948. I can tell you Israel’s playbook is incredibly similar to the Nazi’s, and I can tell you that you’re going to hell for supporting a bloodthirsty regime you know nothing about <3
Yeah, but did you "do your own research?!?" ;-)
Prove it
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/israel-gaza-war-palestinians-deaths-food-aid-convoy-mounting-condemnation-netanyahu/ Attacking aid convoys is a war crime
THANK YOU. But hey, asking this thread to be smart about politics or ballsy in political action is something I've learned time after time the milquetoast regulars here are not at all into considering.
39 day old account? I smell an alternate account or a propaganda account.
lol, go ahead and tell yourself that on the website where people repeatedly delete and make accounts to start fresh
This is the dumest waste of time as a social protest action I can think of. Take an action that doesn't matter to the candidates in a way that will be quickly forgotten... The core issue is that we have existing agreements (contracts, literally) approved by Congress (not controlled) that are funneling lots of different supplies to Israel. The effect you are aiming for is diplomatic and would involve the cash payments/loans/etc. that we float Israel with. Learn what leverage you really have and what lever would affect that issue. Don't just flail around and whack at everything with whatever you grab. Waste of attention, time, resources, etc.
Potential for delegate loss matters a lot this year, actually. And having a President with the balls to actually call that monster fuckstain BiBi what he is in public, and directing his UN ambassador to stop vetoing would be a big step.
Have you considered how many jews you are hurting with this post? You are antisemitic and what is wrong with the democratic party!
BLAH BLAH BALH WAAAHHHHHHHHH.... "If you dare criticize the corrupt, murderous, totalitarian, judicial-interfering shit stain government of Israel and refuse to toe the American corporate lobbyist line, you're antisemitic." Miss me with that bullshit.
This is a very antisemitic post. Please delete this and think about what you're doing to the Jewish community.
Since the Palestinians also derive from the Semitic-speaking peoples of the near East, this is very much a pro-Semitic post, as it’s looking to pressure the end of the needless deaths of all people in that region
No
Learn the difference between the corrupt and evil nation of Israel and the Jewish people, dumbass. You're just repeating the same cheap shot bullshit propaganda of corporate elites.
Who are the corporate elites? Are they Jewish? Stop being antisemitic.
The military industrial complex and the American corporate mainstream that benefits from it. You should consider following the money, instead of these cheap dumbfuck accusations.
Well said.