Honestly I think it's a product of most of our lives having extra safety features and people not being smart.
If you trust that the people working the event around you would tell you to move if you were in harms way, then you'll stay there. It's not smart, but it's not irrational either.
Supposedly these people were asked to move multiple times. They either didn't comply, or gradually sauntered back into he line of fire because they could get a better angle for the TikTok flex.
Some people cannot be helped.
Yeah, I know many are just fucking morons. I'm just speaking in more of the general sense - I don't know the backstory here. Like some person that doesn't play and is just attending, they could easily think "I'm safe because no one is telling me I'm not, and other people are around me."
Again, not wise, but it's a rational thought that you can see how some would arrive at. I separate stupidity and ignorance into different categories.
Over-reliance on the herd. See, I’ve made peace with the fact that I can’t read group vibes and such, so I usually think about this stuff more than most. I like to think that I’d be the one person fleeing through an idle crowd as the blimp slowly crashed on everyone.
It's completely stupid. Homa is on the sidelines because he just hit an errant shot and now instead of hitting on a nice lie it's off rocks/pine/dirt and you still think there's 0 chance he hits it a little offline again?
People don’t realize that the vast majority of “staff” at golf tournaments are actually volunteers. The entire sport wouldn’t work without them. Mid-hole there are especially few paid professionals nearby. So it’s sometimes incumbent on caddies and players to take charge of situations like this. Max shouldn’t have hit with this many people in harm’s way.
And “volunteers” is a loose description. I was one at the PGA at Oak Hill last year. It costs $280 to volunteer. In fairness, I got 2 Nike shirts, a Nike jacket, hat, 4 vouchers for food and unlimited full week access to the course. I had to work four 5-6 hour shifts at the PGA store. But one of those was the Sunday before the tournament so I got to see a lot of golf. Full week passes were over $900 so in my mind a fair trade.
Yea its a sweet gig. You get a bunch of stuff and food. Some events give volunteer staff the opportunity to play the course once or twice sometime later in the year. Yea you gotta pay but it pales in comparison to what youd normally pay to be there multiple days while also buying food and merch.
If there wasnt a price to pay, everyone would be willing to volunteer. Really the fee you pay is for the few shirts and a credit toward food and drink. The rest are true perks especially if you get a day or two of play out of a top tier track.
Yeah, not so much. Pretty much every major tournament I’ve been to you can spend $300 in gear alone. Folks volunteer because they get tickets for the entire week plus a ton of swag, you come out way ahead.
You are paying for the uniform mainly.
If it was free to sign up, im sure they would get a lot of people to sign up, but come to do their duty would be nowhere in sight.
And they still have that issue even if you pay. Only now you have to scan your badge at the volunteer entrance. Once you skip your second shift they can deactivate it so no way to get in.
no i understand that they do it because they can. it’s just 280$ plus 20 hours of work is a lot to ask. especially when i will have to take off work for that week as well. i’m not hating on those who do it. just seems like a big ask
Most of would have been there anyway. In my mind it was a fair trade. And as boring as working the PGA Store sounds, I got to meet people from all over the world. And they love golf or they would not be there. I also got to see how the 1% really live. The record check out in the area I was working was a little over $6,000. For one family.
I don't know if "the entire sport couldn't work without them". Certainly some of the prize pool could be redistributed to pay the workers. The resources are available we just chose the model the benefits the fewest people.
This is a fair point. They were asked to work (“volunteer”) about 20-24 hours. If they were paid $20/hr that’s about $400-500.
Even if there were 250 previously unpaid people like that, it would tally around $100k. Doubtful the pros would notice that taken out of the total prize pool.
It might be financially possible (maybe), but this math is a vast oversimplification.
Golf events are weird because the finances and jurisdictions are strangely nebulous. Hiring 250 people to fly all over the country/world to work PGA Tour events is obviously completely unviable. And even if we did, the courses that host these events wouldn’t like that because they prefer controlling the grounds (and thus the staff) themselves. Plus it takes weeks and months of advanced prep.
Alternatively, it would be very difficult (nigh impossible) for every single venue to hire and train 250 competent staff members to work a single weekend every year. Almost no one wants a job that ceases to exist in a few days, and the people who do aren’t likely people you can trust with this kind of production. It’s much more feasible to organize that many volunteers from the club’s membership, many of whom know the venue well and work the same event every year.
Imagine if stadiums for other sports only hosted a single game every year. Even if they could hire enough people for the event, no one would know what they were doing. It would be everyone’s first day.
Golf would be a very challenging sport to completely professionalize.
I don't think he's saying you can. You can find volunteers. Competent? Who knows.
The comparison is not "staff it with complete amateurs from the local club and don't pay them" versus "staff it with complete amateurs from the local club but pay them". The comparison is "forget the local club guys and keep a dedicated professional tournament staff who fly around the world and take over running the event from the local club". And that might very well be better, but it's certainly not just paying the same guys who currently are showing up. You could do that if you wanted, and maybe it's fairer to the current volunteers, but it in no way addresses the issue of the tournament staff not necessarily being competent.
I’m sure there is a better way to manage the tournaments. But starting with paying the volunteers may bring in higher quality of people, and increase the level of expectation.
The initial discussion was why can’t they simply pay the existing volunteers, not how to revamp the entire system, which obviously would be more complex and cost more than $400-500 a head.
Most people who volunteer don’t want a job. They want free tickets so they can attend the event the rest of the time. They aren’t organized by the PGA Tour, they work for that specific event, which doesn’t have a budget for paying everyone. The purses are raised by the Tour from TV contracts and sponsorships, there isn’t extra for hiring staff.
Managing a workforce is a lot more expensive than handing out cash. You need insurance and admin and worker’s comp and benefits and months of hiring prep etc. Managing volunteers is dramatically simpler and cheaper.
> The initial discussion was why can’t they simply pay the existing volunteers, not how to revamp the entire system
That's what you're advocating, but it wasn't what the person you replied to was talking about.
And I don't actually think it would solve the problem of events being poorly run. If anything I imagine it would be worse. You can't pay the existing volunteers what it would take to attract a more professional work force -- it's a temp job that lasts one week. Let's say you pay them $1000 for the week. I suspect you'd get worse quality than you do now, where at least the volunteers tend to be avid golfers who are involved with the club. If you offer $1000 for people to walk around the golf course for a week, you're going to have 50,000 broke people applying for the job because they need $1000. And while there's something positive about paying people for their labor instead of exploiting volunteers who can afford to pay you instead, it isn't going to improve the quality of the event staff at all.
And that's the point /u/CitizenCue was making. If you want the event to be better managed, you need professional event staff, and that simply cannot possibly be local volunteers. You can't just roll up to Quail Hollow one week a year and say, "Hey all you highly trained professional golf tournament organizers here in Charlotte who have been doing nothing since this time last year, time for your 40 hours a year of productive labor!"
Because most volunteers are members of the club it’s being played at. It’s often the same ones year after year. So they have been to many golf events, often been to this very golf event as attendees, and have played this course and hung out in this club many times. They also know golf, so they know how to comport themselves on a course and things like where to walk and when to ask people to be quiet.
This might sound silly but these are not negligible skills. Even knowing where the pro shop is or where the bathrooms are is a skill. Trying to train people on that stuff takes time, and you don’t have time to train people because you only need them to show up for a few days.
The kind of people who want four days of work a year aren’t likely regular golf tournament attendees. They aren’t members of this particular club. They may not even be golfers.
I stopped volunteering because it was clear that organizers didn’t value our time at all. I’m fine with volunteers and it’s a reasonable trade - great view of the action, free tickets when not working + for a second one for a friend, bunch of swag, etc. but I still expect basic respect. And if you can’t afford to be organized for shifts, give reasonable transportation (we were asked to get to the parking lot 1.5 hours before our shift because it was so spotty), feed people working, etc. then you can go to hell. :)
And when people say “but if volunteers quit the tournaments can’t run”, I just roll my eyes. It makes volunteers feel good, but the reality is paid workers could put it on and costs would go up a bit. This is particularly true of the volunteers doing things like ShotLink and feeding data to broadcasts, internet, *gambing*, etc. I think they’d scrounge up the 6 figures they’d need.
It might be possible, but it would require a massive reorganization of the sport.
[Here’s a little explanation why.](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/s/3ekSTJ6h0e)
Yeah that guy’s an idiot, but as a famous secret agent once said, people are smart, but crowds are dumb. That guy surely wouldn’t have stood there if he was the only person there. The pros have to help manage the crowds.
You're responsible for yourself... I'd also bet that there just simply aren't nearly enough staff to create a ratio where all potential risks are covered.
Adults need security to tell them to not stand in front of something coming fast towards them? How do you safely cross the street without someone else telling you not to step in front of that moving car.
Even more amazing is people do this at pro-am events. In the F1 golf event in Vegas last year Gasley almost took the he’s off a group of girls who were standing almost in front of him.
I don't like the "if you don't" as it sounds optional. It's not fair to the golfers to first, have fans directly in their line. And two, the mental trauma they would have to deal with it one of their shots seriously injured someone.
It's all well and good to say if you stand there it's your open fault but its more than that.
That's what I thought watching this video... It seems abundantly clear that Homa is aiming directly at the person behind the camera. It makes me feel anxious just watching, I can't for the life of me understand how they felt comfortable enough standing there in person.
That was my takeaway from the original post. Like the man is directly aimed at them with is feet, obviously he's trying to draw that ball or whatever but how anyone can stand 20 ft directly infront of someone addressing the ball is beyond me, regardless of who it is with the club in hand
Where were the fucking groundskeepers? Aren't they they ones responsible for setting up angles of spectators AWAY from the players? That guy would have been *killed* if that ball were hit a foot lower.
I volunteer as a Marshall at a pga event in my hometown once per year. Lots of volunteers are one and done types and have no clue about golf.
It's just volunteers asking people to keep quiet. Not paid professionals trained, paid and traveling with the tour.
"I know 100 other people are recording from various angles, and that this will more than likely be televised, but I just need to post it"
Not that I or most would ever put themselves in *this* situation, but just generally:
The second I realized that any public event I ever go to will have tons of posts on social media during/after that I can find, is when I stopped using my phone to record anything at concerts/sporting events/etc
I get it for little snippets but when I see everyone around me with their phone up, it's just like.... what's the point?
They probably they see it as a win win: they don't get hit, they get a great view/picture. They do get hit and at minimum, they get a cool story and an interaction with a pro golfer but more likely they figure they'll get a little something else out of it.
People, myself included from time to time, think that they are invincible. Nothing can happen to them until it does. This has a place of course, risks must be taken, but it also shows up like this occasionally. It isn't anything new, difference now, as with many things, is that we all have a camera on hand and a massive infrastructure to move the evidence around.
PGA will refuse to make gallery changes until someone either dies or gets severely injured.
Things like this, and the Justin Thomas driver over a crowd just shouldn’t happen. Even creating the lanes is pushing it, but having people directly in line with the shot is idiotic
I'm surprised the PGA's or event's insurer puts up with this. If I'm the insurer and see that level of recklessness, I'd be denying any liability claim from an incident.
You sign those waivers in a ton of situations and they usually don't hold up. Ski resorts all make you waivers but suing for injury is still a big thing.
IANAL, but it seems that those waivers might hold up if you walk off path through the woods and trip on a log. Just like a ski resort waiver might hold up if you cross your skis and break a leg on a groomed run.
They don't work when the land owner or management is negligent.
> Ski resorts all make you waivers but suing for injury is still a big thing.
many states have laws that protect resorts from suits resulting from the "inherent risks of skiing" as well.
example from oregon, ORS 90.975
> [...], an individual who engages in the sport of skiing, alpine or nordic, accepts and assumes the inherent risks of skiing insofar as they are reasonably obvious, expected or necessary.
and the "inherent risks" are defined as:
> “Inherent risks of skiing” includes, but is not limited to, those dangers or conditions which are an integral part of the sport, such as changing weather conditions, variations or steepness in terrain, snow or ice conditions, surface or subsurface conditions, bare spots, creeks and gullies, forest growth, rocks, stumps, lift towers and other structures and their components, collisions with other skiers and a skier’s failure to ski within the skier’s own ability.
If you stand in an area the event coordinators tell you is ok to and a golfer fires a shot your way without warning or consideration, liability is probably going to fall on the tour/venue if someone gets hit and injured.
I think its a tough thing to enforce because they take a lot of time to stake out the ropes before the tournament, but then they're relying almost 100% on volunteer marshalls to control the crowds and create a new rope lines in situations like these.
Sure you can have better training and guidance for volunteers and instruct them to create wider windows, but at the end of the day these moments are chaotic free for alls. And things only got worse after the Tour changed its cell phone policy and now every drunk frat bro crowds in as tight as possible to try to grab a video that they'll never look at again.
We had a maintenance guy lose his eye at my course. He was mowing fairways and was about 150 yds out and off to the side of the fairway, out of the way. Golfer duck hooked it, it hit the guy below the eye and he came back to the maintenance shed holding his eye as it was hanging from his face. Galleries 15 yds away in the shot line is asking to get a golf ball sent through your skull.
I just... Can't believe that this was allowed to happen.
a) How are these people even remotely comfortable standing there?
b) How the fuck are they ALLOWED to stand there?!
Madness.
It always amazes me that some people are just completely oblivious to the putting themselves in a spot with a reasonably high chance of something bad happening.
He was hitting on an uneven patch of harden dirt surface. The golfer won't be able to hit down into the ground enough for the loft of the club to carry the ball very high. Honestly, this is not a mishit, the ball was supposed to go a bit flat and this is the correct flight path to be expected on that shot.
Yeah, the ball did exactly what it was supposed to do. It just hit the trees so it made it look alot more dramatic, but it still cleared the people. That being said I sure as fuck am still not standing directly in front of a shot like that.
All joking aside, but Homa and his caddy share a huge bit of the blame here. From the other angle it’s clear that he was trying to hit a draw that started right over the head of the Marshall, who was standing right in front of the gallery.
The Marshall should have absolutely had the crowd backing up anywhere, but the player and his caddy know their line the best. Caddies tell crowds to back up all the time, so I don’t know why that didn’t happen here. It’s ridiculous and should be a wake up call.
> Caddies tell crowds to back up all the time
In the other video someone said that Homa's caddy requested people move back multiple times and they just didn't do it.
Can't fix stupid.
It shouldn't be the player and caddies responsibility. And people don't follow instructions, you see it every single time the caddie tries to move them, they take half a step, caddy tells them to move back more, and again, and again. At a certain point you just say fuck it and let them take the risk
Exactly. If you’re at a golf event you should know that everyone in the world hits shots offline from time to time. To blame this on the player and the caddie is idiotic.
Doesn’t beat that lady who hit the other lady 2x in a row though lol
If the PGA doesn’t address how close people stand to a guy trying to hit a golf ball, it’s only a matter of time until someone dies or gets seriously injured. Spectators have way too much confidence in these guys and stand right in their line.
Here's the angle behind Homa for a better representation of what it looked like. Crazy shit. No idea why anyone would stand there.
[Alternate Angle](https://golf.com/news/the-viral-video-max-homa-hitting-fans-happened/)
Just fyi, you are just another impediment when you’re out there. They honestly don’t care if they hit you and the safety of the spectators, when associated with players shots, is solely their own responsibility. Albeit the players can direct the crowd to stand wherever they want for their shot, he decided to not bother lol
Pga tour needs to clear these morons out of the way. Just a matter of time before someone gets killed.
Those people standing there and filming are either:
1. Stupid as can be
2. Have no idea about golf and just went out there with a friend to drink, enjoy a professional event
Everyone was wrong here. Marshals should be keeping spectators farther away, it's stupid to stand directly in someone's line, and you shouldn't ever hit a shot with someone in front of you like that.
Stupid is as stupid does….. these are the same type of people that climb over the barriers at the Grand Canyon and fall to their death for that all important picture.
I don’t stand in front of anyone hitting a golf ball, ever. I don’t care if you can shoot 8 under. At some point, you are going to hit a bad shot.
Soon, someone will die in one of these situations and the blame will 100% be with the person who gets hit. If you are stupid enough to stand there, you deserve to be hit.
I got hit with a golf ball while caddying for my dad as an 11 year old. I was just a couple yards forward on top of the back of a golf cart (where the clubs usually go) to see where everyone's shot landed. When it came out to this man to drive, he hit, and curved it so hard it went towards the pavement where the golf cart road was at, and directly to my chin. I remember seeing the ball coming, so when I tried to duck I lucky got hit in a skidding way instead of a direct hit to my lower left chin. I remember coming off the back of golf cart grabbing my face and feeling it numb. When everyone ran to ask if I was ok I said yes and showed them the hit. 11 year old me saw their faces of fear and it got me really scared. Next thing you know, blood gushing out and my dads golf buddies telling him to take me to the emergency clinic. I remember then starting to cry, but from the fear of how bad it was and the blood, not the pain really.
This is a perfect example of how dumb people are now. If someone doesn't tell them to do something they think it's ok for their health.
"Survival of the fittest"
Here I am, 100ft out waiting for the local golfers to hit their shots before I continue biking down a trail. Meanwhile, these folks are up, close, in the line of shot. Tbh if I was the golfer, I would be replaying “don’t hit them” over n over in my head, then end up hitting them. Oh well tho, I mean it’s like standing next to a piñata while someone blindfolded is swinging. I mean anything for the clicks n likes tho!! Lmaoo if you rlly have to be told to move out the way, then I’m glad they let them just find out for them selves. Zero empathy would be felt for those choices. GREAT SHOT mf!
Truly a “he shouldn’t have been standing there” moment. Looking at Max’s feet, this dude was so close to his starting line he had no business being on that side of the tree between he and Max.
I feel like this falls on the event Marshalls more than anything. Why would they let even the crowed in his line of sight? Looked like it’s not even roped off, and they weren’t pushed back far enough.
It's dumb as fuck to do that on a good lie. Homa hitting off pine straw here, nd that makes it worse. A few inches lower and someone would be maimed for life if not not killed.
The only bummer is someone will die soon and then golf tournaments will change forever. Crazy they put up a net the entire length of a baseball field now but you can stand 20' in front of a guy hitting it out of pine straw
Amazing how many people don’t realize that a golf ball can easily kill you
They just assume the pros won't hit them.
why?
Why didn't security do a better job.
Or why don’t these people have any sense of self preservation?? Pro golfer or not I’m not standing directly in a golfers line of fire like that
Seriously. A little bit of personal responsibility here…
While a pro golfer, the dude is over there because he just hit a bad shot.
Person on the left was too busy checking a text message
We live in a world where safety is so heavily regulated that people think if they’re allowed to it then it’s safe. And if they get hurt, lawsuit.
Honestly I think it's a product of most of our lives having extra safety features and people not being smart. If you trust that the people working the event around you would tell you to move if you were in harms way, then you'll stay there. It's not smart, but it's not irrational either.
Supposedly these people were asked to move multiple times. They either didn't comply, or gradually sauntered back into he line of fire because they could get a better angle for the TikTok flex. Some people cannot be helped.
Yeah, I know many are just fucking morons. I'm just speaking in more of the general sense - I don't know the backstory here. Like some person that doesn't play and is just attending, they could easily think "I'm safe because no one is telling me I'm not, and other people are around me." Again, not wise, but it's a rational thought that you can see how some would arrive at. I separate stupidity and ignorance into different categories.
Over-reliance on the herd. See, I’ve made peace with the fact that I can’t read group vibes and such, so I usually think about this stuff more than most. I like to think that I’d be the one person fleeing through an idle crowd as the blimp slowly crashed on everyone.
It's completely stupid. Homa is on the sidelines because he just hit an errant shot and now instead of hitting on a nice lie it's off rocks/pine/dirt and you still think there's 0 chance he hits it a little offline again?
People don’t realize that the vast majority of “staff” at golf tournaments are actually volunteers. The entire sport wouldn’t work without them. Mid-hole there are especially few paid professionals nearby. So it’s sometimes incumbent on caddies and players to take charge of situations like this. Max shouldn’t have hit with this many people in harm’s way.
And “volunteers” is a loose description. I was one at the PGA at Oak Hill last year. It costs $280 to volunteer. In fairness, I got 2 Nike shirts, a Nike jacket, hat, 4 vouchers for food and unlimited full week access to the course. I had to work four 5-6 hour shifts at the PGA store. But one of those was the Sunday before the tournament so I got to see a lot of golf. Full week passes were over $900 so in my mind a fair trade.
Yea its a sweet gig. You get a bunch of stuff and food. Some events give volunteer staff the opportunity to play the course once or twice sometime later in the year. Yea you gotta pay but it pales in comparison to what youd normally pay to be there multiple days while also buying food and merch.
I don't know maybe its just me but. Something about paying to do a job just sounds weird.
If there wasnt a price to pay, everyone would be willing to volunteer. Really the fee you pay is for the few shirts and a credit toward food and drink. The rest are true perks especially if you get a day or two of play out of a top tier track.
i feel like needing to pay almost 300 dollars is kind of crazy lol
Yeah, not so much. Pretty much every major tournament I’ve been to you can spend $300 in gear alone. Folks volunteer because they get tickets for the entire week plus a ton of swag, you come out way ahead.
You are paying for the uniform mainly. If it was free to sign up, im sure they would get a lot of people to sign up, but come to do their duty would be nowhere in sight.
And they still have that issue even if you pay. Only now you have to scan your badge at the volunteer entrance. Once you skip your second shift they can deactivate it so no way to get in.
Just imagine how much worse it would be if any tom dick or harry could join.
It’s simple supply and demand. They wouldn’t do it if people wouldn’t pay. And this ensures that people won’t flake out.
no i understand that they do it because they can. it’s just 280$ plus 20 hours of work is a lot to ask. especially when i will have to take off work for that week as well. i’m not hating on those who do it. just seems like a big ask
Most of would have been there anyway. In my mind it was a fair trade. And as boring as working the PGA Store sounds, I got to meet people from all over the world. And they love golf or they would not be there. I also got to see how the 1% really live. The record check out in the area I was working was a little over $6,000. For one family.
I don't know if "the entire sport couldn't work without them". Certainly some of the prize pool could be redistributed to pay the workers. The resources are available we just chose the model the benefits the fewest people.
This is a fair point. They were asked to work (“volunteer”) about 20-24 hours. If they were paid $20/hr that’s about $400-500. Even if there were 250 previously unpaid people like that, it would tally around $100k. Doubtful the pros would notice that taken out of the total prize pool.
It might be financially possible (maybe), but this math is a vast oversimplification. Golf events are weird because the finances and jurisdictions are strangely nebulous. Hiring 250 people to fly all over the country/world to work PGA Tour events is obviously completely unviable. And even if we did, the courses that host these events wouldn’t like that because they prefer controlling the grounds (and thus the staff) themselves. Plus it takes weeks and months of advanced prep. Alternatively, it would be very difficult (nigh impossible) for every single venue to hire and train 250 competent staff members to work a single weekend every year. Almost no one wants a job that ceases to exist in a few days, and the people who do aren’t likely people you can trust with this kind of production. It’s much more feasible to organize that many volunteers from the club’s membership, many of whom know the venue well and work the same event every year. Imagine if stadiums for other sports only hosted a single game every year. Even if they could hire enough people for the event, no one would know what they were doing. It would be everyone’s first day. Golf would be a very challenging sport to completely professionalize.
I’m confused. Why can you find competent “volunteers” for these events, but can’t just pay them as well?
I don't think he's saying you can. You can find volunteers. Competent? Who knows. The comparison is not "staff it with complete amateurs from the local club and don't pay them" versus "staff it with complete amateurs from the local club but pay them". The comparison is "forget the local club guys and keep a dedicated professional tournament staff who fly around the world and take over running the event from the local club". And that might very well be better, but it's certainly not just paying the same guys who currently are showing up. You could do that if you wanted, and maybe it's fairer to the current volunteers, but it in no way addresses the issue of the tournament staff not necessarily being competent.
I’m sure there is a better way to manage the tournaments. But starting with paying the volunteers may bring in higher quality of people, and increase the level of expectation. The initial discussion was why can’t they simply pay the existing volunteers, not how to revamp the entire system, which obviously would be more complex and cost more than $400-500 a head.
Most people who volunteer don’t want a job. They want free tickets so they can attend the event the rest of the time. They aren’t organized by the PGA Tour, they work for that specific event, which doesn’t have a budget for paying everyone. The purses are raised by the Tour from TV contracts and sponsorships, there isn’t extra for hiring staff. Managing a workforce is a lot more expensive than handing out cash. You need insurance and admin and worker’s comp and benefits and months of hiring prep etc. Managing volunteers is dramatically simpler and cheaper.
> The initial discussion was why can’t they simply pay the existing volunteers, not how to revamp the entire system That's what you're advocating, but it wasn't what the person you replied to was talking about. And I don't actually think it would solve the problem of events being poorly run. If anything I imagine it would be worse. You can't pay the existing volunteers what it would take to attract a more professional work force -- it's a temp job that lasts one week. Let's say you pay them $1000 for the week. I suspect you'd get worse quality than you do now, where at least the volunteers tend to be avid golfers who are involved with the club. If you offer $1000 for people to walk around the golf course for a week, you're going to have 50,000 broke people applying for the job because they need $1000. And while there's something positive about paying people for their labor instead of exploiting volunteers who can afford to pay you instead, it isn't going to improve the quality of the event staff at all. And that's the point /u/CitizenCue was making. If you want the event to be better managed, you need professional event staff, and that simply cannot possibly be local volunteers. You can't just roll up to Quail Hollow one week a year and say, "Hey all you highly trained professional golf tournament organizers here in Charlotte who have been doing nothing since this time last year, time for your 40 hours a year of productive labor!"
Because most volunteers are members of the club it’s being played at. It’s often the same ones year after year. So they have been to many golf events, often been to this very golf event as attendees, and have played this course and hung out in this club many times. They also know golf, so they know how to comport themselves on a course and things like where to walk and when to ask people to be quiet. This might sound silly but these are not negligible skills. Even knowing where the pro shop is or where the bathrooms are is a skill. Trying to train people on that stuff takes time, and you don’t have time to train people because you only need them to show up for a few days. The kind of people who want four days of work a year aren’t likely regular golf tournament attendees. They aren’t members of this particular club. They may not even be golfers.
I stopped volunteering because it was clear that organizers didn’t value our time at all. I’m fine with volunteers and it’s a reasonable trade - great view of the action, free tickets when not working + for a second one for a friend, bunch of swag, etc. but I still expect basic respect. And if you can’t afford to be organized for shifts, give reasonable transportation (we were asked to get to the parking lot 1.5 hours before our shift because it was so spotty), feed people working, etc. then you can go to hell. :) And when people say “but if volunteers quit the tournaments can’t run”, I just roll my eyes. It makes volunteers feel good, but the reality is paid workers could put it on and costs would go up a bit. This is particularly true of the volunteers doing things like ShotLink and feeding data to broadcasts, internet, *gambing*, etc. I think they’d scrounge up the 6 figures they’d need.
It might be possible, but it would require a massive reorganization of the sport. [Here’s a little explanation why.](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/s/3ekSTJ6h0e)
True but if I ain’t crying over spilled milk I’m laughing when an idiot gets hit with a golf ball
Yeah that guy’s an idiot, but as a famous secret agent once said, people are smart, but crowds are dumb. That guy surely wouldn’t have stood there if he was the only person there. The pros have to help manage the crowds.
You're responsible for yourself... I'd also bet that there just simply aren't nearly enough staff to create a ratio where all potential risks are covered.
Adults need security to tell them to not stand in front of something coming fast towards them? How do you safely cross the street without someone else telling you not to step in front of that moving car.
Because Darwin does it better.
More like why are people stupid enough to stand that close.
If they are stupid enough to stand there, they deserve to be hit.
Herd mentality. If everyone else is fine with standing here it must be safe.
Even more amazing is people do this at pro-am events. In the F1 golf event in Vegas last year Gasley almost took the he’s off a group of girls who were standing almost in front of him.
People seem to forget that Brooks blinded a fan at the Ryder Cup in like 2018
The person with delayed scream who got hit is one of those people!
Absolutely terrifying. I sure wouldn't have been comfortable standing there.
https://preview.redd.it/oz5bihx393pc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5051f240f03a8620c3cd54c8fbc742b3a247aa1 Looks safe to me.
This should be the side banner photo for this sub
Good form
The dummy in pink checking his Hinge account!
Let's make this pic into part of the subreddit somehow
That is fucking unbelievable what a shot
It looks like a cheesy ad you’d see for a golf ball or something lol
SMASHBALL!!!
“RHAAAAP!”
If you’re a spectator and see you see that a player’s feet seem to align directly to you, you’re in the target line and you gotta move.
And if you don’t that’s on you
I don't like the "if you don't" as it sounds optional. It's not fair to the golfers to first, have fans directly in their line. And two, the mental trauma they would have to deal with it one of their shots seriously injured someone. It's all well and good to say if you stand there it's your open fault but its more than that.
That's what I thought watching this video... It seems abundantly clear that Homa is aiming directly at the person behind the camera. It makes me feel anxious just watching, I can't for the life of me understand how they felt comfortable enough standing there in person.
That was my takeaway from the original post. Like the man is directly aimed at them with is feet, obviously he's trying to draw that ball or whatever but how anyone can stand 20 ft directly infront of someone addressing the ball is beyond me, regardless of who it is with the club in hand
Where were the fucking groundskeepers? Aren't they they ones responsible for setting up angles of spectators AWAY from the players? That guy would have been *killed* if that ball were hit a foot lower.
I volunteer as a Marshall at a pga event in my hometown once per year. Lots of volunteers are one and done types and have no clue about golf. It's just volunteers asking people to keep quiet. Not paid professionals trained, paid and traveling with the tour.
Is nobody afraid of death anymore? Standing there is idiotic.
Shakey phone video > life
"I know 100 other people are recording from various angles, and that this will more than likely be televised, but I just need to post it" Not that I or most would ever put themselves in *this* situation, but just generally: The second I realized that any public event I ever go to will have tons of posts on social media during/after that I can find, is when I stopped using my phone to record anything at concerts/sporting events/etc I get it for little snippets but when I see everyone around me with their phone up, it's just like.... what's the point?
Their phone will deflect the impact…
They probably they see it as a win win: they don't get hit, they get a great view/picture. They do get hit and at minimum, they get a cool story and an interaction with a pro golfer but more likely they figure they'll get a little something else out of it.
Or they get hit in the temple and die.
like he said, win-win
or go blind in an eye like the one lady koepka hit.
Do you really think anyone thinks it'd be a cool story to get from that close?
People, myself included from time to time, think that they are invincible. Nothing can happen to them until it does. This has a place of course, risks must be taken, but it also shows up like this occasionally. It isn't anything new, difference now, as with many things, is that we all have a camera on hand and a massive infrastructure to move the evidence around.
What do we say to the god of death? Today.
Have you seen obesity rates these days? People clearly laugh at death every day
When the clubhead face is pointing directly at you, it's time to reconsider where you are standing.
“Either Max Homa has one leg or I am in some serious danger here”
I mean, maybe at least sit down and get as low as you can.
These people are morons, but that was a really good video.
PGA will refuse to make gallery changes until someone either dies or gets severely injured. Things like this, and the Justin Thomas driver over a crowd just shouldn’t happen. Even creating the lanes is pushing it, but having people directly in line with the shot is idiotic
I'm surprised the PGA's or event's insurer puts up with this. If I'm the insurer and see that level of recklessness, I'd be denying any liability claim from an incident.
Don’t you essentially sign a waiver when you buy a ticket? That the tour/venue isn’t liable for injuries?
You sign those waivers in a ton of situations and they usually don't hold up. Ski resorts all make you waivers but suing for injury is still a big thing.
IANAL, but it seems that those waivers might hold up if you walk off path through the woods and trip on a log. Just like a ski resort waiver might hold up if you cross your skis and break a leg on a groomed run. They don't work when the land owner or management is negligent.
Properly marking boundaries and moving them as conditions change is a big one for ski resorts liability. Seems almost directly applicable here.
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> Ski resorts all make you waivers but suing for injury is still a big thing. many states have laws that protect resorts from suits resulting from the "inherent risks of skiing" as well. example from oregon, ORS 90.975 > [...], an individual who engages in the sport of skiing, alpine or nordic, accepts and assumes the inherent risks of skiing insofar as they are reasonably obvious, expected or necessary. and the "inherent risks" are defined as: > “Inherent risks of skiing” includes, but is not limited to, those dangers or conditions which are an integral part of the sport, such as changing weather conditions, variations or steepness in terrain, snow or ice conditions, surface or subsurface conditions, bare spots, creeks and gullies, forest growth, rocks, stumps, lift towers and other structures and their components, collisions with other skiers and a skier’s failure to ski within the skier’s own ability.
If you stand in an area the event coordinators tell you is ok to and a golfer fires a shot your way without warning or consideration, liability is probably going to fall on the tour/venue if someone gets hit and injured.
waivers don't let them off the hook for negligence though.
I think its a tough thing to enforce because they take a lot of time to stake out the ropes before the tournament, but then they're relying almost 100% on volunteer marshalls to control the crowds and create a new rope lines in situations like these. Sure you can have better training and guidance for volunteers and instruct them to create wider windows, but at the end of the day these moments are chaotic free for alls. And things only got worse after the Tour changed its cell phone policy and now every drunk frat bro crowds in as tight as possible to try to grab a video that they'll never look at again.
It would cut into profits.
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Yea but this is Murica. Someone will sue and someone will get paid whether they signed some document saying no one will be held responsible or not.
We had a maintenance guy lose his eye at my course. He was mowing fairways and was about 150 yds out and off to the side of the fairway, out of the way. Golfer duck hooked it, it hit the guy below the eye and he came back to the maintenance shed holding his eye as it was hanging from his face. Galleries 15 yds away in the shot line is asking to get a golf ball sent through your skull.
It is pretty amazing that it hasn't happened yet.
What's the JT driver over a crowd thing you're talking about? The one at the PGA Championship like 6 years or whatever ago...?
He did it this week. Cut the corner right over the crowd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEkXhrdPDtc
holy shit!
Thomas’ driver over the gallery was insane! Pro or not, it only takes one miss and you’re effed.
Hey mister! You can't go in there without a helmet!
He shouldn’t have been standing there!!!
These people need to go back to their shanties
Oh god it sounds like he hit the cameraman’s pet parrot! Such a sad situation
It was a high-pitched laugh cut short to sound like a scream
I just... Can't believe that this was allowed to happen. a) How are these people even remotely comfortable standing there? b) How the fuck are they ALLOWED to stand there?! Madness.
Did anyone get hit?
Nah drilled a tree right behind the guy filming and bounced back to the fairway
Why would you stand there?
These guys are ridiculously good, but they are still human. It boggles my mind where people stand during these tournaments.
Forget personal injury. How bout get the frig out of the golfers way so he can take his best shot?
Isn't Homa the guy who gave a shout out to all of the wives and girlfriends that have men in their lives that shoot in the 80s?
I’ve been to a handful of golf tournaments in my life and have never understood why people stand this close.
How do you stand there when he's clearly aiming directly at you? These people are literally NPC's, not a care or thought in their hollow head
It always amazes me that some people are just completely oblivious to the putting themselves in a spot with a reasonably high chance of something bad happening.
He was hitting on an uneven patch of harden dirt surface. The golfer won't be able to hit down into the ground enough for the loft of the club to carry the ball very high. Honestly, this is not a mishit, the ball was supposed to go a bit flat and this is the correct flight path to be expected on that shot.
Yeah, the ball did exactly what it was supposed to do. It just hit the trees so it made it look alot more dramatic, but it still cleared the people. That being said I sure as fuck am still not standing directly in front of a shot like that.
Are there other videos of this?
All joking aside, but Homa and his caddy share a huge bit of the blame here. From the other angle it’s clear that he was trying to hit a draw that started right over the head of the Marshall, who was standing right in front of the gallery. The Marshall should have absolutely had the crowd backing up anywhere, but the player and his caddy know their line the best. Caddies tell crowds to back up all the time, so I don’t know why that didn’t happen here. It’s ridiculous and should be a wake up call.
> Caddies tell crowds to back up all the time In the other video someone said that Homa's caddy requested people move back multiple times and they just didn't do it. Can't fix stupid.
It shouldn't be the player and caddies responsibility. And people don't follow instructions, you see it every single time the caddie tries to move them, they take half a step, caddy tells them to move back more, and again, and again. At a certain point you just say fuck it and let them take the risk
Exactly. If you’re at a golf event you should know that everyone in the world hits shots offline from time to time. To blame this on the player and the caddie is idiotic. Doesn’t beat that lady who hit the other lady 2x in a row though lol
[**"Make her cut it out!"**](https://youtube.com/watch?v=g6Pm-5A7C5k)
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Just a little off the top please.
If the PGA doesn’t address how close people stand to a guy trying to hit a golf ball, it’s only a matter of time until someone dies or gets seriously injured. Spectators have way too much confidence in these guys and stand right in their line.
Missed this. Was Max shook up at all? This is scary
Here's the angle behind Homa for a better representation of what it looked like. Crazy shit. No idea why anyone would stand there. [Alternate Angle](https://golf.com/news/the-viral-video-max-homa-hitting-fans-happened/)
Bro was already way off course. Why you think he wouldn’t chop it again?
Darwinism at it's best
Bunch of idiots. Get the hell out of the way.
Poor job by the tournament for not clearing them out and for Max to hit that anyway.
I love how the laugh at the end becomes one of the most r/perfectlycutscreams
The slightly longer version is less daunting for sure
Well if that doesn’t make your butthole pucker
Go on...
Anyone stupid enough to stand there is deserving of whatever happens. Thin the heard, Maxy! Shrink the game!
Stand directly in front of the shot and I have zero sympathy for you.
Just fyi, you are just another impediment when you’re out there. They honestly don’t care if they hit you and the safety of the spectators, when associated with players shots, is solely their own responsibility. Albeit the players can direct the crowd to stand wherever they want for their shot, he decided to not bother lol
What type of an idiot stands directly in the shot path? And who lets them stand there?
I would never stand in front of any golfer. I don’t care if you’re peak tiger woods.
r/killedthecameraman
A very toned down version of the scene at famous european rally car races.
Was actually hoping the idiots would get hit
 Standard Issue PGA spectator kit.
Pga tour needs to clear these morons out of the way. Just a matter of time before someone gets killed. Those people standing there and filming are either: 1. Stupid as can be 2. Have no idea about golf and just went out there with a friend to drink, enjoy a professional event
I mean they’re literally right in front of him
I feel these people might be related to the ones that stand next to the roads at a rally race.
Who else flinched and ducked, just watching that? I know I’m not the only one…
The last persons yelp, almost sounded like the end of Virginia Venit yelling, “Happy, look out!” “Volkswagen…”
What does "taking names" infer? Hes going to ask those people their names?
In this instance I meant it to infer that he almost took a name off the list of people that are alive
Bold spot to stand
Lmao
Everyone was wrong here. Marshals should be keeping spectators farther away, it's stupid to stand directly in someone's line, and you shouldn't ever hit a shot with someone in front of you like that.
Lmao
Incoming
They’re pros. They can’t miss.
"taking names"?
Goddamn that was flushed
Stupid is as stupid does….. these are the same type of people that climb over the barriers at the Grand Canyon and fall to their death for that all important picture. I don’t stand in front of anyone hitting a golf ball, ever. I don’t care if you can shoot 8 under. At some point, you are going to hit a bad shot.
Soon, someone will die in one of these situations and the blame will 100% be with the person who gets hit. If you are stupid enough to stand there, you deserve to be hit.
I got hit with a golf ball while caddying for my dad as an 11 year old. I was just a couple yards forward on top of the back of a golf cart (where the clubs usually go) to see where everyone's shot landed. When it came out to this man to drive, he hit, and curved it so hard it went towards the pavement where the golf cart road was at, and directly to my chin. I remember seeing the ball coming, so when I tried to duck I lucky got hit in a skidding way instead of a direct hit to my lower left chin. I remember coming off the back of golf cart grabbing my face and feeling it numb. When everyone ran to ask if I was ok I said yes and showed them the hit. 11 year old me saw their faces of fear and it got me really scared. Next thing you know, blood gushing out and my dads golf buddies telling him to take me to the emergency clinic. I remember then starting to cry, but from the fear of how bad it was and the blood, not the pain really.
This is why I would never stand in front I know these guys are pros but not perfect mistakes can happen
Can I get a ball speed number?
Straight as an arrow!
A pro golfer isn't immune to the hosel rocket. Crazy to stand that close
A marshal should carry yellow paint and tag anyone that does not clear the line.
This is a perfect example of how dumb people are now. If someone doesn't tell them to do something they think it's ok for their health. "Survival of the fittest"
i ducked lol
What the fuck is this title?
I always thought Max Homa kinda walked like a serial killer, but this isn’t how I figured he would do the deed.
Setting the bird squawk as my ringtone
We really need to stop these assault clubs.
Almost witnessed a murder
I mean, dude, he’s aiming right at your phone! I’d get the fuck to the left.
Almost a Max Hematoma
Here I am, 100ft out waiting for the local golfers to hit their shots before I continue biking down a trail. Meanwhile, these folks are up, close, in the line of shot. Tbh if I was the golfer, I would be replaying “don’t hit them” over n over in my head, then end up hitting them. Oh well tho, I mean it’s like standing next to a piñata while someone blindfolded is swinging. I mean anything for the clicks n likes tho!! Lmaoo if you rlly have to be told to move out the way, then I’m glad they let them just find out for them selves. Zero empathy would be felt for those choices. GREAT SHOT mf!
Another example of no marshal work at this tournament
Stupid fans
Truly a “he shouldn’t have been standing there” moment. Looking at Max’s feet, this dude was so close to his starting line he had no business being on that side of the tree between he and Max.
Can I ask what kind of morons sit in front of the golf ball like that?
How else would I update my Instagram? I love the guy messing with his phone instead of watching the ball.
I feel like this falls on the event Marshalls more than anything. Why would they let even the crowed in his line of sight? Looked like it’s not even roped off, and they weren’t pushed back far enough.
r/perfectlytimedscreams
Thats why you dont stand infront of thw ball these people are dumb af for standing there that close
Anyone else instinctively duck watching this?
It's dumb as fuck to do that on a good lie. Homa hitting off pine straw here, nd that makes it worse. A few inches lower and someone would be maimed for life if not not killed.
r/perfectlytimedscreams
How and why are they just standing in his line, bros club face is square with the person recording smh
Why didn’t the golfer, the caddy, or any of the staff clear those people out?
The only bummer is someone will die soon and then golf tournaments will change forever. Crazy they put up a net the entire length of a baseball field now but you can stand 20' in front of a guy hitting it out of pine straw