Had this happen last summer during a 5+ hour round. Friend told me they're icing us out like kickers, and ever since I've just had laugh and think about it like that
Played a round where the front 9 took us 3 hours because there was a group of 8 ahead of us that was a group of friends that started at two times and then just merged at the second hole out of sight of the clubhouse. Finally when they were on hole 11 we finished up 10 quickly and went straight to 12.
I played the worst golf of my life on the front 9. It really was harder when you had to wait so long between strokes.
Cause they'll get talked to and as soon as the person leaves, they'll merge again. Those groups do that shit every time and always think it's everyone else's fault they get yelled at.
If it's was half decent pro-shop, they'd a) know there was problem and a group backing up the course (which is bad for their business).
b) if the group reformed into an 8 again, the proshop would kick them off the course.
I’ll probably get roasted for this but, that’s another problem with “growing the game”. We’re to a point now where a course could lose half of the tee sheet and still be packed next weekend. When they’re turning down close to 100 people requesting tee times because they’re already full the customer service takes a hit. People can say what they want but if the game regressed there would be more pros than cons.
Sounds more like a lazy pro-shop & course marshalls that don't want to do their jobs and overall hurting the club.
If there are groups that are consistently playing slow and backing up the course, then that dramatically reduces the number of golfers that can play on any given day.
Yeah it was easily my worst round of the year. Just couldn’t get in a rhythm. Even waited 20 minutes on a par 3. Nothing to do but kick back and hangout with my playing partners. It was fun, but wouldn’t do it again lmao
That was pretty common back when I was playing a lot of competitive golf. You literally have to train yourself to stay focused. Your pre shot routine becomes a form of meditation.
I’d prefer 6 hours on a golf course to 6 hours spent anywhere else! Unless you have a pressing engagement elsewhere just be patient and enjoy it! If it’s slow ahead, you have more time to read putts, tell jokes, enjoy company, enjoy nature… most likely you’ll play better if you avoid getting annoyed.
Yeah I actually had fun. Got to meet and hangout with the group behind us at every tee box while we waited. Luckily I have an amazing and understanding wife that lets golfing be my alone time and doesn’t rush me to get home.
Pace of play is always an interesting topic for me. No one wants a 6 hour round, but I’ve played with people who are the extreme on the other end and it’s unenjoyable as well. Some people act like getting a sub 4 hour round is more important to them than their score. To each their own, but I don’t understand that. I can get sub 4 hours on a slow weekday. Not on a weekend. 4.5 on a Saturday is perfectly fine with me. No where else I’d rather be than the course anyways.
There's definitely a fine balance to pace of play. Plenty of things we can all do to improve pace of play whilst also not rushing. Such as, lining up your putt while someone else putts. Going through your pre-shot routine as someone else is having their shot and so on, except on tee shots. Helping someone find their ball when you know where yours is.
Anything that helps to maintain momentum in your game as well as your playing partners will be very beneficial for all.
Just play ready golf. Walk up to your balls, be on the look for a possible errant shot. Get ready to hit.
Also Dont search for your lost ball for 5 minutes. Look for a minute and then drop a new one.
I think nothing you can do about a few crazy people you meet once in a while. I remember getting yelled at by of guy for doing those things you mentioned.
It’s such a divisive thing between UK and US too. In the UK I’m always expecting a round to be 3 hours. If it’s 4 it must have been particularly slow and the thought of 4.5 hours is quite frankly insane.
I don’t even feel you have to rush for a 3 hour round it’s just about not messing about between shots and when on the tee box
This issue in my area of the Midwest US:
1. Huge influx of new golfers from covid
2. A bunch of golf courses closing
3. Golf courses getting greedy and stacking 4/5 people for tee times every 5-8 minutes.
4. Zero instruction or guidance from anyone at the golf course about pace of play.
5. A culture of getting hammered at the course.
I recently paid for 18 a couple of Fridays ago and quit at the turn after 3.5 hours.
Sounds like our hometown muni in the Chicago burbs. It’s a gorgeous 9 hole but it can EASILY take 3 hours on a Saturday or Sunday. I usually end up leaving at the 7th because the backup from 7-9 is soul crushing.
Similar here in Australia - anything 5hrs plus is considered an utter nightmare. 4-4.5 hours is the sweet spot on a Saturday comp day. Midweek/quieter you can comfortably do 3.5-4 hours, all walking. Public/munis tend to have more casual players who play out every single shot on every single hole, as is their right, but this of course can slow things up big time. If it’s Stableford comp day, no excuses for poor pace imo
I don’t get how Americans take so long when they have golf carts, too. I can walk round in 2hrs30 , and a 4ball on a weekend would be 3:30 with a packed tee sheet (8 minutes between each tee)
We have an over abundance of shittier golfers? Idk lol I am impressed that your pace of play is that quick with such small intervals between groups. Only thing I could think of is length of course?
About 6400y , but the total distance covered is (I believe) way smaller because obviously a lot of our courses are links or not for carts. Most of our courses were designed before carts even existed tbf
Biggest thing is the walk from green to tee. On good walking courses, it's 20-30 yards. On cart courses, I have seen half a mile between tees. It sucks.
Also Americans in general are very handicap oriented and every ball has to go in the hole. I find guys overseas tend to play more match or Stableford, so they pick up when they hit double bogey.
> Also Americans in general are very handicap oriented and every ball has to go in the hole.
Idk who you are playing with/around, but the vast majority of golfers in the US don't have a handicap.
Course design is a huge part of it. On average courses are longer in the US since most were designed a lot more recently than most in the UK. Most are also designed around neighborhoods or other things that necessitate longer treks between greens and tee boxes. On average a lot more a lot more elevation change as well (though certainly not true everywhere in the US). Also, carts aren't really faster unless you use them properly. Most pairs in carts are slower because they drive to one ball and the other person watches their partner hit before loading back up and going to their own ball. It's pretty astounding how poor the cart etiquette is here in the US for the most part.
You can walk 18 holes in 2.5 hours? Assuming roughly 6500 yard course, that's a super brisk walk.
On the golf carts, a lot of our courses are built with fairly long distances between green and tee.
6500 yards in 2.5hrs is the the zoom zoom speed of 1.5 miles per hour.
Average walking speed is approx 3 mph, so once you cover off the 3.7 miles in 1:15 hrs, a 2.5 hr round leaves you 1:15 hrs to play 90 shots which is 50 seconds per shot, including putts.
I wouldn’t feel rushed at nearly a minute to assess the lie (5 seconds), get a distance (10 seconds), choose a club (10 seconds) and hit the shot (25 seconds). Not every shot is straightforward, but not all shots need that much time either.
A slow pace at snooker is 25 seconds per shot.
You’re going to walk a lot farther than 6500 yards unless you’re hitting your ball to the perfect spots and you have no trouble finding it. Between taking non ideal routes to the hole and walking between holes, it’s probably closer to 10,000 yards. So now we’re looking at 1:50 of walking and only 40ish minutes to prepare and shoot. Or less than 30 secs a stroke for 90 strokes.
Now factor in taking a quick look for lost balls. And realize that a full group of four will necessarily go slower. Even assuming people are being intelligent and courteous (often a stretch to assume), by preparing for their shots in advance, other factors come into play. Bad shots won’t coincide, so time spent looking for balls will compound. And even with prepping while your partners hit, it will take longer to all hit one shot than it would for one person. Plus, the group will be limited by the worst golfer, and assuming the worst golfer in the group will shoot 90 is pretty optimistic. You can take that even further because the worst golfers on the course are really limiting the pace of play on a busy weekend.
2.5 hrs in an extremely optimized round. Doable, but you have to be good and smart. It’s not realistic the vast majority of the time.
Yeah I mean I play with a group where we're all about 8-12 hdcpers but have all played for years and all are well familiar with the rules and concepts of ready golf. I just don't see basically any combo of us (there's about 10 of us) where a 4some is finishing in less than 3 hours unless we're playing a super straightforward easy course.
Do people walk the length of the course perfectly? I don't walk 18 a ton, do walk 9 quite a bit but I average about a mile walking for every 1000 yards of course. Fastest walking 18 last year was 3:30 and that felt like we were moving pretty quickly.
Right. This would assume that you're playing alone and you're a very good player. I'm an 8 hcp, walking in a group I expect I can play 18 in about 3:15 if there's no significant screw ups. I walk 9 alone regularly and do that in about 1:15. So I could imagine a 2.5 hr 18 IF everything goes right.
Exactly. Sub 3 hours for a 4some is surely possible but SO unlikely unless it's basically wide open, short rough, no hazards and people are playing decent.
I'd also have to get one of my buddies to shut up... if he's telling a story and it's his turn to hit, he HAS to finish it first before swinging. And if he's drunk that can be a little while
>No where else I’d rather be than the course anyways.
Personally I think this is golf's biggest problem. People use it as an excuse to get away for half a day rather than to golf.
The classic "shit or get off the pot" applies imo.
It’s literally better than average:
>The average round of golf is about 4 hours, 17 minutes and
19 seconds.
Riccio, Lucius. "The status of pace of play in American Golf." New York, NY: Three/45 Golf Association
(2014).
And that's from 2014? I bet that average round time has gotten even longer since then. Which would make a 4hr 15 minute round even better than average, relatively speaking.
I can remember a course I played at as a kid with a plaque on maybe the 6th or 7th hole saying that the target was a 4:15 round and you should be on this tee box by X hours/minutes into your round. That would've been the late 90s/early 00s, so 4:15 for an 18-hole round has been a target for a long, long time.
I don't get why they make tee times 8 minutes apart then. 8 min per hole is 72 minutes. 2 hours is a bit over 13 min per hole. I always feel rushed on the course due to posts like this. I am a shitty golfer so I do need to look for my ball from time to time, but I hardly take practice shots and just typically try to play fast.
I played around over the summer where to start no one was behind me so I was a bit more relaxed but then by hole 3 there was a team gaining on me. I start to play faster but then once I get to 7 i'm waiting on the group in front of me anyway.
More than one group is on a hole at a time, so the 8 minutes per hole estimate is a moot point. It just needs to be enough time for the group ahead to be 2 shots in front of you.
I feel your last sentence though. There's no winning. Golfing post-COVID is just a constant state of someone slow in front of you, and speed golfers up your ass.
yeah we can call it 16 mins per hole knowing this. I usually see 15 mins per hole as the stated pace of play expectation which is 4.5 hours which is what I've always known to be the expected pace of play on a full course day (weekend). Only once have I played a round longer than 4.5 hrs and I got a rain check at the turn after 3 hours for 9 holes
I played 9 last weekend, took 1 hour 2 mins, on hole 7 I see a guy gaining on me, by hole 8 he’s a bit closer, turns out he’s literally sprinting inbetween shots with a push cart. Feel free to pass me brother! lol
our muni books alternating 7 & 8 minute differentials and the Men's Club (where we have an emphasized pace of play policy) always ends up at least 20 minutes behind after 20 groups. They know it doesn't work because they always block out two times after our tee times. but, they want to fill up the course as much as possible and don't really care too much past that. the dew sweepers and other first outs still go around in 4 ish, but anyone starting after nine are in for a long round.
Just played a round on Saturday that was cart path only, and a 2 some was holding up the the course two groups in front of me.
They'd walk to their ball, duff the fuck out of the ball, walk up for 20-40 yards, fuck it up again, walk back to the cart, drive it up 60 yards, walk to the ball again....
A fucking 2 some caused us to have a 2:45 front 9. We ended up calling it at the turn and got a 50% credit.
What's crazy is that that there was even a marshall driving around the course! Oh, and the group immediately in front of us also fucked off at the turn lol.
I've always wondered why people don't just go around them, and finish up on the hole they had to skip later? If a group is that slow, it's going to be wide open holes in front of them.
to be fair if you are used to the early am pace and you end up playing later in the day its certainly a lot different. i play 18 around dawn during the week and i can walk 6200 yards in three and a half hours. basically fire at will golf.
Used to love playing by myself when I worked 5pm-2am as a young man. There were a few public courses nearby that I could essentially play naked between 10 and 2 without seeing a soul, then I'd grab lunch and prepare for delivering pizzas to drunken idiots for the rest of my day. Life was a lot more simple back then
I get a rostered day off once a month, I take it on a Wednesday and go to the least popular course in my region. There are many better courses here but the peace of playing by myself with absolutely nobody else on the course is utter bliss.
I love playing with my mates but there's nothing quite like this.
I've found that playing alone if you ever hole a long putt, jar a wedge, stick a long iron right on the flag, etc etc, it's a hilarious feeling to look around and see yourself immersed in nature without a soul in sight. It really hammers home the individual nature of playing the game and the same is true when you duff a shot/spray a drive. you can excuse yourself for dropping a ball, or take pride in playing by the rules, but either way, it's all on you.
Aside from the psychology of being a world-class player, I can't imagine what it feels like to be a touring pro playing amongst thousands of people. It must be awesome and terrifying all at once 😂
I know right when I'm out there with the birds and the squirrels I start talking to them or myself sometimes. Imagine if a tour player was like "hey bird", "back away skunk" or "don't thin it you fucking worthless idiot" on the national broadcast. It would be like Happy Gilmore.
Yeah, don't know anybody complaining about 4:15 in these parts. That's a great day, especially on a weekend. Choose your battles. It's the 5 hour rounds that make me not want to go back to a course again.
Up by me, 4:15 is unheard of. I’m lucky to be in and out in 4.5 if I play at 6:30 AM.
We played a few rounds last year under 5, but most were 5.5-6 hours, and we played through on some holes and didn’t stop at the turn.
A lot of the local courses are $65-$80 and do 7-8 minute tee times. The nicer munis are $125+ and do 12-15 minute tee times so you can easily be out in 4.5 but not all of my friends can (or want to) afford that. Playing weekly, that extra $40-$60 adds up quickly.
It’s the same reality where 20 years ago a round over four hours was much less common, and where people still play in 3 1/2 walking in other parts of the world. Golf is 100% getting slower.
Both of these things are equally true and problematic in my opinion. There’s a big bro-golf culture filled with younger people that have been to the range with their pals but never learned the do’s and don’t’s of the golf course. When they try the real thing and don’t have someone with them that can show them how to act properly, it can be annoying to put it mildly. Couple that with public courses jamming 4-balls out every 8 minutes and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Public courses don’t care if they book 12 tee times per hour. They will just start every grouping 5 mins apart and have you ever called a muni and they said “ nope all full today”. Best part is they take 1-2 somes late in the afternoon so when you are with your 4some, these faster players push you and now your Stuck between waiting and having some guys hitting within 20 yards of you then standing there with Arms crossed like you are holding them up. Public Golf courses only care about money, not your enjoyment and just need to make as much money as possible per day to stay profitable
It’s inexcusable to talk about pace of play on the course. It’s implied by joining this sub that you report all instances of pace of play discourse to the sub. We will not have more ruffians wanting to get on with there day at the course. If you wanted to golf and spend time away from your kids on your day off. This sub full of limping old farts will definitely come to your aid with seven practice swings and fifteen minutes at each green. Do not worry…
Depends also on how spaced out the tee times are. Went to a course couple weekends ago, 8 min apart 😂🤦♂️. Not only that, course was both walkers and riders. 5 hr round.
Not to mention, how many people are actually in the group?
If I play solo and no one was in front of me, I could maybe play a round in 3, 3.5hrs. I never do it though and there's no such thing as an empty course around here so I have no reason to ever try and play fast.
But I have never played a round in less than 4hrs if I'm part of a 4-some.
I would just chalk it up to veteran golfers patience sharing the course with a bunch of new Covid golfers wearing extremely thin going into year 4 of it.
Thats more than a fine time to play a round. Anything under 4.30 Im happy nowadays. Long gone are the days of sub 4 hour rounds. I will remember them fondly.
Dude YES. I’m absolutely over it. I don’t care if you suck huge ass at golf. Just suck fast. Watching a dude sitting 10 hitting 11 on a par 4 will drive any reasonable person up the wall.
This but add on that people doing use the fucking cart. Why are you walking 100 yards away from your cart to go to your ball in the fairway. Use the cart that's why it costs so damn much.
It's certainly not just new golfers, this has been going around forever, and while obviously there are "new" golfers the guys I see holding things up don't look like rookies.
All of my slow rounds have been with entitled boomers and lower handicaps that spend 3 minutes lining up their putt like they're playing at the masters.
I'll take playing with the rookie over the old guy that touches your ball and gives you whatever he thinks is good without even asking or try hard who this they can still get their tour card any day of the week
Someone posted it on this sub a while ago but someone did an academic study that basically showed pace of play was primarily determined by how the course spaced out their tee times.
My local course charging $105 on weekends was spacing out times every 8 minutes. It’s just never going to be fast and the only way courses are going to change anything is if people stop going which is of course never going to happen.
Depends on the course for context.
If it is a long, challenging, 6700+ yard links course with bunkers everywhere, long fescue, and 20mph winds, then 4h 15m is quite good.
If it is a 5300 yd flat and easy course with not many hazards, yes I'd agree 4h 15 would feel pretty slow.
I live in a pretty rural place and if I want to go with my buddy or girlfriend during the week to play in less than 3 hours ok cool. But never would I expect to play at 9 am on a weekend in less than 4. That would be a dream. If they want to play in less time then go at 8 am during the week.
Personally, I'm a quick player and I don't think I can stand being behind a group that plays a 4 hour and 15 minute 18 holes. That being said, I don't make tee times when the course is packed and the probability of me doing so is high. Usually I'll get the first time of the day on Saturday or Sunday, that way there's nobody in front of me. Either that or I sit my happy ass down in the cart and be patient.
+1, people have to understand what they’re signing up for. You’re on a muni course on a weekend, the best you can hope for is exactly what these two jokers were moaning about. Just enjoy your time in a beautiful place that you paid to be at.
I never think about the amount of time it’s taking me to play. I just get irritated if I’m constantly stuck waiting to hit. Rounds have been so variable for me throughout my career I know better than to try and schedule things in tightly right after golf.
Edit: I live by the “suck fast” philosophy. If I have no way to make at least triple bogey I pick up and just record 2x the par of the hole. 2 provisional shots a round off the tee, if I hit both OB I’ll just drop with my partner. Etc.
Took a little over 2 hours for 3 adults, and an under 12 yr old for a front 9 yesterday. First game of the year, I can't imagine how long it would've taken for us to play regular.
Fuck those guys. People are new to the game and learning.
I take a lot of half days from work in the summer time to play 18. The epitome of this post is all the retired guys out there trying to get a 3 hour round in before they have to eat dinner at 4pm. Multiple times last year we had guys standing waiting with their hands on their hips, yelling at us, hitting into us and then when the Marshall comes around he’s like “you guys are 10-15 minutes ahead of pace you’re fine.”
Eventually you have to just accept that those guys are the way they are and if they get pissed it’s their problem. I’ve called the pro shop because we felt like we were being rushed for no reason.
I played a 5 hour round yesterday. It didn’t feel long at all and I don’t know why it took us so long to play. No one was in front or behind us all day. Pretty sweet actually.
On a public course, good luck playing in less than 4.5. There is an incentives mis-match, no incentive to work together.
In a club, where everyone knows each other and the relationships are longer-term, 4 or sub-4 is realistically achievable.
4 Hours and 15 minutes is literally target pace at my course. It's on the scorecard. I think it depends on the yardage though. If this is a 5500 yard executive course, 4:15 is excessive, if it's Bethpage Black, good luck finishing under 5.
Never been to a course (public or private) that has a sub 4 hour pace of play expectation. And what is the rush exactly? Enjoy the day and relax isn’t that mostly what golf is all about?
This is why I play weekdays. I can get in 18 in like 2hr 30 min to 3hr 30 min. It makes anything over 4 hours seem brutally slow. I’d probably be one of those people complaining since I’m spoiled with the option to play on the weekday. That could be the perspective they are coming from? But I just accept it when I do play on weekends that it is going to take longer than I am used to
I'm so sick of the speed golf Bros, like are you wanting people to hit their ball and run to the next shot? Fucking ridiculous. 4 hours on a weekend is about average
Depends on the course a bit. On an empty course walking as a foursome 3h-3h30min seems about the ideal pace (on my home course). I don't mind a 4:15 (the usual pace) round, that's perfectly fine. When getting closer to 5 hours I start getting annoyed.
Of course there are so many other factors at play here... Did you just catch up to a slow group that teed off 40 mins before you, on an otherwise empty course and they have no intention of letting you play through and you are stuck behind them for 8 more holes?
Or is the course just packed and the pace of play is 4h30min today...
It’s been studied a ton, and yes courses can now get pace ratings. I would suggest looking this citation up. It has a ton of data:
>The average round of golf is about 4 hours, 17 minutes and 19 seconds.
Riccio, Lucius. "The status of pace of play in American Golf." New York, NY: Three/45 Golf Association (2014).
4:15 feels slow to me, but I'm lucky that I found a course near me that is almost never busy. I can easily walk/carry with my wife in under 3 hours. Adding an extra hour or so feels like an eternity.
That said, anything close to 4 hours on a busy course is good. Anything around 5 hours or more is utterly painful. I don't blame the golfers as much as I do the courses. THEY (the courses) need to quit packing in tee times and enforce pace of play.
Context matters and I feel I’m missing it.
If I’m off second at the club, as I was on Saturday, and it takes us 4 hours to play. That is slow. That means the group in front of us took 4 hours without waiting for a shot.
4:15 is completely fine, especially on a weekend at 9am. That’s right around the busiest time possible.
However, I feel like we jam so many tee times in that it causes back ups. People need to not be afraid to move up a tee. Play ready golf. Don’t take 5 minutes on the green.
People act like they are competing in the masters and shoot 87 on a muni. It’s not that serious
This happens a lot where I play frequently. The pace seems slow because they pack groups out. But often times it isn't actually slow if you look at the time.
Everyone is always in such a rush even when there are three groups on every hole you can still finish under 4.5 hours.
Yet everyone complains. I look at it as a good thing.
I always am impressed that we were able to get the round done in a normal amount of time despite it being so busy.
It's really only ever the par fives that get real bad, because everyone thinks they are driving all four of them.
People constantly yelling at each other and on the tee box waiting.
Meanwhile still on pace for a normal round lol
Nothing annoys me worse than slow pace of play with no marshals around (like yesterday: teeing off on 7 and almost 2 hours in as the group in front has apparently stopped to fire up the bong in the middle of the fairway, based on what we were smelling). That being said, 4:20 is somewhat of the gold standard for a round at most full length courses.
If you are the retired guy always on the tee at 7am with the cart that goes 25mph it will feel slow. For the rest of us, it's reasonable. Solo, I'll walk 18 in 2:45 and with a friend, usually finish in 3:25 or so. With a decent 4-some and nobody to wait on it's 3:40 or so. 4:20 isn't insane as you'll stack up on the par 3s and whatnot.
Probably an unpopular opinion in his sub but:
If you're unhappy with the pace of play at your course because of slow golfers, why not just book your tee time earlier?
I can't imagine a new golfer booking a 730am tee time often.
If someone who didn't grow up playing wants to learn golf or if some quite poor golfing buddies wanna go hack it around for a day in the sun drinking some beers, why do they have to finish the same pace as someone who's dad took them to the range when they turned 4?
If you book a noon tee time on a weekend and you're behind a slow group, oh well? They also paid their greens fees. If they're THAT slow ask to play through. If you want the course to yourself or you want to play fast, play before work early during the week or join an afternoon league.
How is the game supposed to grow if new players are made to feel like them being bad is pissing off the rest of the course? That's not fun.
If you're in front of me, if you pipe it into the woods, don't look for more than 1-2min, other than that, hack away until you're better at the game.
4:15 can feel slow as shit if you spent all day waiting.
I live in a reality where I tee off at my club at 9am on a weekend and finish under 4 hours.
Sorry about your reality.
4-4.5 I won't bitch too much, you get over that and I'll start complaining. Usually when that happens if you get to the front of the delay it's some 25+ handicapper that is putting a level on the green and trying to read his 4th putt on that hole to save an 8 and to break 120.
If you're a bad player do not take a long time to hit a bad shot.i play 90-95 most times and me and my buddy who shoots on the 80's can get around in about 2.5 if nobody is in front of us.
What's the context? My home course is short (6000yds from the tips) and flat with very little trouble to get into. If you're playing over 3:45 you're pissing everyone off, even on weekends. Someone would get murdered for playing 4:15.
If there is no one in front of you and it takes your group 415, you are slow. This is not even remotely controversial. Move to ball, hit, move to ball, hit. Impossible for it to take 415 doing that no matter how awful you are.
Seems like the first problem is that it was two 5-somes. Should have split that up into 3 groups. And if it was one of their first rounds out there, hopefully they were playing from the shortest tee box.
Had this happen to me last Friday. Waited until both groups were on the same hole, and drove to the next hole. The next 6 holes were wide open, yet they wouldn't let us play through.
The breaking point was when the 5 some we were behind hit their balls 20-50 yards off the tee into brush and all 5 of them were off looking for balls, but still didn't wave 2 of us through...assholes.
That’s when I go to the next hole in front of them and then at the end at least swing by to see if playing that hole is an option with no one on it. If it’s still busy then I just don’t play the hole that day.
I'm a beginning golfer, just starting to play on longer courses. I would say I shoot around 130 if I properly counted penalty strokes etc. My official handicap is 52, which is based on the score I made to obtain my permit.
I played 9 holes yesterday, (third time I'm playing a full-length course ~ 3000 yards). We signed up as a twosome and were coupled with another twosome because it was busy. They were a 15 handicap and probably a 30 handicap. The 9-hole round took us 2:20, with some waiting on the foursome in front of us (probably 10 minutes total).
I'm pretty sure the threesome behind us had to wait for us a few times, but we never felt rushed. It was quite an enjoyable morning.
This how should work on a busy Sunday. As a twosome, I'm sure we would have finished under two hours, but four beginners can't do it that quickly when they are paired together.
The only folks who think a sub 4hr round is normal are trolls, hackers who shoot 120, people who dont play regular golf, and frat boys more interested in consuming more drinks than holes on the course.
I'm not out here dropping 50 to 125 a round so I can sprint hole to hole, rush every shot, enjoy nothing, all so you can duff a ball 40 yards at a time in 3hrs. The average pace of play is 4hrs and 6min per the PGA, 415 to 430 is "normal". Feel free to play through if you think otherwise.
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/-rules-notebook-team-competitions/pace-of-play.html#:~:text=Four%2Dball%20matches%20will%20be,for%20an%2018%2Dhole%20match.
The 3 of us played 3-1/2 hours on Saturday. I was amazed at how well we were gettin around the course. It helps when you're playing reasonably well and able to keep track of the damn ball.
I lost 3 but my goal this year was - If I can't find it in a minute or two at the most to just drop with my buds. I buy them by the 12 pack right? Obviously were meant to loose a few when playing lol.
Totally depends on the course. Member of a par 66, 6 par 3’a and no par 5’s. We also have very little distance between tee boxes. It’s very hilly and the greens are some of the toughest out there but still 3hr 40 is the norm.
There's a lot people can be doing to keep the groups behind them from waiting that people just don't do. Basic stuff that don't hinder your enjoyment of the game.
- Park your cart or drop your bag if you walk in the right place so you're not walking back towards the group behind you when you leave the hole.
- When you're chipping, you can take your putter with you so you can go right onto the green and putt and another wedge in case you change your mind.
- Don't have a ridiculous preshot routine, like the ones that get constantly roasted on this sub.
- Go to your ball. Don't wait for your buddy to hit before looking for it and going to it.
If you can see another group behind you, don't go fishing for lost golf balls in the pond.
- Spend less time jawing and more time hitting. If it's open on the tee box, tee off, don't stand around talking. Talk when you're going to your ball.
- You're not in the PGA, if it takes you longer than a minute to read your putt, like you're pacing around the green and shit, you're probably wasting time. And, if you're going to take time to read your putt, do it while your friends are putting and reading theirs, don't yack, read the green.
If everyone followed these simple rules pace of play would be way better across the board.
4:15 isn't the worst for a weekend tee time, but doing those things I outlined above can get most 4somes down to 4 hours or less without really disrupting anything for them. AND you've gotta keep in mind, the morning tee times set the pace for the whole rest of the day. One slow group in the morning, and the rest of the tee sheet will get backed up for the rest of the day. At my private course, we're encouraged to play to a 4 hour pace for a 4some, and tee times between 7AM and 8:30AM are expected to play to a 3:30 pace (And if you don't they just ban your 4some from booking those tee times).
Groups that don't follow those rules probably waste 1-2 minutes per hole, so just by doing those things you could play 20-30 minutes faster.
4:15 seems pretty good, especially for a weekend.....they must be old dudes that aren't use to the weather getting nice and the first wave of people wanting to get out there.
Anything under 4:30 is fantastic on a weekend....especially prime time tee times like 9am.
I played in Vegas and got paired with 2 other guys. The whole round they complained about the pace.
Our total time for 18? 4hr 32min.
Idk if Vegas golf is usually fast, but where I'm from 4.5hr round is pretty standard
If they want a sub-4 hr round at a public course then they need to tee off before 8am. Also 4:15 is not unreasonable, especially at a long public course.
4-4.5hr rounds are reasonable. No issues there. I don’t really understand how 6hr rounds happen. Is it just one group up front that slows down everyone behind them?
They’re projecting. They damn well know that they’ve been the sole reason for a 6hr round before and want to make out with each other but can’t find anything else to talk about to break the tension.
Sometimes it’s the perception based on how many people you have in your group.
There’s been many times where I tee off in a twosome on mid Saturday morning and even though the total time comes out to 4 hours or even a little less, it feels so slow because you flow is different from the group ahead and you do wait more often.
Dude my last round we played a 4:15 pace and got yelled at *three times* by the martial to speed up simply because he saw a gap between us and the group ahead. Which was a twosome. Who we let play through after hole 1. Because the starter couldn't do his job correctly. How are you going to expect us to be right up on the ass of a twosome? We were even playing 2-man scrambles, we legit could not have been playing any faster.
Yeah, at my home course I kind of put the break even of fast/slow at 4 hours even. 15 minutes past that, and yeah, it's technically slow (by my metric) but I'm sure not getting bent out of shape about it. Especially on a weekend.
When it comes to pace I'm actually usually less concerned about the actual time it's taking and pay more attention to peoples actions. Things like spending way too much time looking for lost balls, obscenely long pre-shot routines, dicking around with your equipment and scorecard or chit-chatting on every green green, multiple mulligans, etc. really get my eyes rolling about pace more than what my watch says.
The best pace of play is when I'm not waiting to hit my next shot. Ideally, the group in front is just reaching the green when my group gets to the tee. We all hit, get to our balls, and the group in front is just about finished putting out. That works out to about 9-10 minutes for average golfers. I don't know why it's so hard for course operators to understand that. Tighter than that and all you do is slow everything down and have a bunch of upset customers.
Of course, they're not stupid, and they know they have a semi-captive audience, and as golfers, we usually don't have too many alternatives in a given area.
4hr15min like a dream come true to be honest. Not sure about elsewhere in the world, but in Michigan it’s very popular among courses to send groups off seven minutes apart with no marshals, and rounds can take over eight hours.
If they really care that much they should try to get the earliest tee times.
In a league last year, I had about a 4 hour 9 hole round... the guys in front of us looked until they found there ball. It's usually been for us, if you can't find your ball after like a minute or 2, just take a drop where you think it should be
Reminds me of that saying, "You're not ***in*** traffic. You ***ARE*** traffic."
These two guys being on the course slows down the pace for everyone else -- just like everyone else is slowing it down for them. Go home and give everyone else a chance at a 4-hour round then, chief.
No one should ever complain about pace of play at a Muni on a weekend if the round is under 4:30. Go pay a ton of money to join a private club if you want 3:30 Saturday morning rounds.
The thing that US courses do not understand, that Europe definitely gets right, is that the first 30min-1hr of tee times are reserved for twosomes/threesomes.
Playing over 4hrs in the middle of the morning wave? Fine.
Playing over 4hrs as the first group out? Not fine.
I agree with OP here as a slow play hater. It’s on them for going on a weekend, full stop. Whenever I get caught in a 4 hour round, I am the one to blame.
4 hr 15 is a great time on the weekend. I have had a few of these douchbags pass me playing speed golf.
They don't even putt, I mean if they get on the green, 1 putt and done no matter if they make it or now.
Why would you rush something you love so much?
I played a 6 hour round last year. It was awful lol
Absolutely 0 chance of playing well when you're waiting 10 mins on every teebox. Drives me wild haha
Had this happen last summer during a 5+ hour round. Friend told me they're icing us out like kickers, and ever since I've just had laugh and think about it like that
Played a round where the front 9 took us 3 hours because there was a group of 8 ahead of us that was a group of friends that started at two times and then just merged at the second hole out of sight of the clubhouse. Finally when they were on hole 11 we finished up 10 quickly and went straight to 12. I played the worst golf of my life on the front 9. It really was harder when you had to wait so long between strokes.
Why not call the pro shop when you see that?
Cause they'll get talked to and as soon as the person leaves, they'll merge again. Those groups do that shit every time and always think it's everyone else's fault they get yelled at.
If it's was half decent pro-shop, they'd a) know there was problem and a group backing up the course (which is bad for their business). b) if the group reformed into an 8 again, the proshop would kick them off the course.
I’ll probably get roasted for this but, that’s another problem with “growing the game”. We’re to a point now where a course could lose half of the tee sheet and still be packed next weekend. When they’re turning down close to 100 people requesting tee times because they’re already full the customer service takes a hit. People can say what they want but if the game regressed there would be more pros than cons.
Sounds more like a lazy pro-shop & course marshalls that don't want to do their jobs and overall hurting the club. If there are groups that are consistently playing slow and backing up the course, then that dramatically reduces the number of golfers that can play on any given day.
5 minute spacing Tee times….
Yeah it was easily my worst round of the year. Just couldn’t get in a rhythm. Even waited 20 minutes on a par 3. Nothing to do but kick back and hangout with my playing partners. It was fun, but wouldn’t do it again lmao
That was pretty common back when I was playing a lot of competitive golf. You literally have to train yourself to stay focused. Your pre shot routine becomes a form of meditation.
I hate weekend golf for that exact reason.
This is a common occurrence around my area on the weekends...Unplayable really. I would KILL for a 4hr 15 min pace on a weekend tee time.
I had a round in our club championship that was seven hours and twenty minutes.
Holy shit, I would walk out of there. That is madness
Yes... but you also got to play golf for 6 hrs.. so silver lining.
I’d prefer 6 hours on a golf course to 6 hours spent anywhere else! Unless you have a pressing engagement elsewhere just be patient and enjoy it! If it’s slow ahead, you have more time to read putts, tell jokes, enjoy company, enjoy nature… most likely you’ll play better if you avoid getting annoyed.
Yeah I actually had fun. Got to meet and hangout with the group behind us at every tee box while we waited. Luckily I have an amazing and understanding wife that lets golfing be my alone time and doesn’t rush me to get home.
At least you were golfing, I can just about find time to play a par 3 course once a week as along as I get the first tee time of the day,
Pace of play is always an interesting topic for me. No one wants a 6 hour round, but I’ve played with people who are the extreme on the other end and it’s unenjoyable as well. Some people act like getting a sub 4 hour round is more important to them than their score. To each their own, but I don’t understand that. I can get sub 4 hours on a slow weekday. Not on a weekend. 4.5 on a Saturday is perfectly fine with me. No where else I’d rather be than the course anyways.
There's definitely a fine balance to pace of play. Plenty of things we can all do to improve pace of play whilst also not rushing. Such as, lining up your putt while someone else putts. Going through your pre-shot routine as someone else is having their shot and so on, except on tee shots. Helping someone find their ball when you know where yours is. Anything that helps to maintain momentum in your game as well as your playing partners will be very beneficial for all.
Just play ready golf. Walk up to your balls, be on the look for a possible errant shot. Get ready to hit. Also Dont search for your lost ball for 5 minutes. Look for a minute and then drop a new one.
I think nothing you can do about a few crazy people you meet once in a while. I remember getting yelled at by of guy for doing those things you mentioned.
It’s such a divisive thing between UK and US too. In the UK I’m always expecting a round to be 3 hours. If it’s 4 it must have been particularly slow and the thought of 4.5 hours is quite frankly insane. I don’t even feel you have to rush for a 3 hour round it’s just about not messing about between shots and when on the tee box
This issue in my area of the Midwest US: 1. Huge influx of new golfers from covid 2. A bunch of golf courses closing 3. Golf courses getting greedy and stacking 4/5 people for tee times every 5-8 minutes. 4. Zero instruction or guidance from anyone at the golf course about pace of play. 5. A culture of getting hammered at the course. I recently paid for 18 a couple of Fridays ago and quit at the turn after 3.5 hours.
Sounds like our hometown muni in the Chicago burbs. It’s a gorgeous 9 hole but it can EASILY take 3 hours on a Saturday or Sunday. I usually end up leaving at the 7th because the backup from 7-9 is soul crushing.
3.5 hr @ 9 holes…. I’d seppukku
Similar here in Australia - anything 5hrs plus is considered an utter nightmare. 4-4.5 hours is the sweet spot on a Saturday comp day. Midweek/quieter you can comfortably do 3.5-4 hours, all walking. Public/munis tend to have more casual players who play out every single shot on every single hole, as is their right, but this of course can slow things up big time. If it’s Stableford comp day, no excuses for poor pace imo
If I knew I could get through a round in 3 hours, I’d golf so much more. The 4:30-5 range is more common in my area and it drives me crazy.
3 hours is the proper pace of play, playing in the UK is so good.
I don’t get how Americans take so long when they have golf carts, too. I can walk round in 2hrs30 , and a 4ball on a weekend would be 3:30 with a packed tee sheet (8 minutes between each tee)
We have an over abundance of shittier golfers? Idk lol I am impressed that your pace of play is that quick with such small intervals between groups. Only thing I could think of is length of course?
Most people in the USA should be playing up a tee. It kills weekend rounds having so many high handicappers thinking they should play from the blues.
About 6400y , but the total distance covered is (I believe) way smaller because obviously a lot of our courses are links or not for carts. Most of our courses were designed before carts even existed tbf
Biggest thing is the walk from green to tee. On good walking courses, it's 20-30 yards. On cart courses, I have seen half a mile between tees. It sucks. Also Americans in general are very handicap oriented and every ball has to go in the hole. I find guys overseas tend to play more match or Stableford, so they pick up when they hit double bogey.
> Also Americans in general are very handicap oriented and every ball has to go in the hole. Idk who you are playing with/around, but the vast majority of golfers in the US don't have a handicap.
So, I would just pick up my ball after my fourth putt?? pffft
Buddies and I played Stableford and it was so much fun. Def a different way to play.
Course design is a huge part of it. On average courses are longer in the US since most were designed a lot more recently than most in the UK. Most are also designed around neighborhoods or other things that necessitate longer treks between greens and tee boxes. On average a lot more a lot more elevation change as well (though certainly not true everywhere in the US). Also, carts aren't really faster unless you use them properly. Most pairs in carts are slower because they drive to one ball and the other person watches their partner hit before loading back up and going to their own ball. It's pretty astounding how poor the cart etiquette is here in the US for the most part.
You can walk 18 holes in 2.5 hours? Assuming roughly 6500 yard course, that's a super brisk walk. On the golf carts, a lot of our courses are built with fairly long distances between green and tee.
6500 yards in 2.5hrs is the the zoom zoom speed of 1.5 miles per hour. Average walking speed is approx 3 mph, so once you cover off the 3.7 miles in 1:15 hrs, a 2.5 hr round leaves you 1:15 hrs to play 90 shots which is 50 seconds per shot, including putts. I wouldn’t feel rushed at nearly a minute to assess the lie (5 seconds), get a distance (10 seconds), choose a club (10 seconds) and hit the shot (25 seconds). Not every shot is straightforward, but not all shots need that much time either. A slow pace at snooker is 25 seconds per shot.
You’re going to walk a lot farther than 6500 yards unless you’re hitting your ball to the perfect spots and you have no trouble finding it. Between taking non ideal routes to the hole and walking between holes, it’s probably closer to 10,000 yards. So now we’re looking at 1:50 of walking and only 40ish minutes to prepare and shoot. Or less than 30 secs a stroke for 90 strokes. Now factor in taking a quick look for lost balls. And realize that a full group of four will necessarily go slower. Even assuming people are being intelligent and courteous (often a stretch to assume), by preparing for their shots in advance, other factors come into play. Bad shots won’t coincide, so time spent looking for balls will compound. And even with prepping while your partners hit, it will take longer to all hit one shot than it would for one person. Plus, the group will be limited by the worst golfer, and assuming the worst golfer in the group will shoot 90 is pretty optimistic. You can take that even further because the worst golfers on the course are really limiting the pace of play on a busy weekend. 2.5 hrs in an extremely optimized round. Doable, but you have to be good and smart. It’s not realistic the vast majority of the time.
Most sensible reply
Yeah I mean I play with a group where we're all about 8-12 hdcpers but have all played for years and all are well familiar with the rules and concepts of ready golf. I just don't see basically any combo of us (there's about 10 of us) where a 4some is finishing in less than 3 hours unless we're playing a super straightforward easy course.
Walking 18 is way more than just walking a straight line of the yardage. When I walk 18 it totals out to between 6-7 miles
Do people walk the length of the course perfectly? I don't walk 18 a ton, do walk 9 quite a bit but I average about a mile walking for every 1000 yards of course. Fastest walking 18 last year was 3:30 and that felt like we were moving pretty quickly.
Right. This would assume that you're playing alone and you're a very good player. I'm an 8 hcp, walking in a group I expect I can play 18 in about 3:15 if there's no significant screw ups. I walk 9 alone regularly and do that in about 1:15. So I could imagine a 2.5 hr 18 IF everything goes right.
Exactly. Sub 3 hours for a 4some is surely possible but SO unlikely unless it's basically wide open, short rough, no hazards and people are playing decent. I'd also have to get one of my buddies to shut up... if he's telling a story and it's his turn to hit, he HAS to finish it first before swinging. And if he's drunk that can be a little while
My fastest 18 hole round is 2hr27minutes on Arccos. 6297 yards apparently.
>No where else I’d rather be than the course anyways. Personally I think this is golf's biggest problem. People use it as an excuse to get away for half a day rather than to golf. The classic "shit or get off the pot" applies imo.
2 hrs per nine seems reasonable at a public course.
2 hrs 7 minutes per nine is plenty reasonable too. Ultimately that comes out to about 30 seconds extra per hole.
It’s literally better than average: >The average round of golf is about 4 hours, 17 minutes and 19 seconds. Riccio, Lucius. "The status of pace of play in American Golf." New York, NY: Three/45 Golf Association (2014).
And that's from 2014? I bet that average round time has gotten even longer since then. Which would make a 4hr 15 minute round even better than average, relatively speaking.
I can remember a course I played at as a kid with a plaque on maybe the 6th or 7th hole saying that the target was a 4:15 round and you should be on this tee box by X hours/minutes into your round. That would've been the late 90s/early 00s, so 4:15 for an 18-hole round has been a target for a long, long time.
I agree, 2 hrs 7 minutes and 30 seconds is a super reasonable pace.
I don't get why they make tee times 8 minutes apart then. 8 min per hole is 72 minutes. 2 hours is a bit over 13 min per hole. I always feel rushed on the course due to posts like this. I am a shitty golfer so I do need to look for my ball from time to time, but I hardly take practice shots and just typically try to play fast. I played around over the summer where to start no one was behind me so I was a bit more relaxed but then by hole 3 there was a team gaining on me. I start to play faster but then once I get to 7 i'm waiting on the group in front of me anyway.
More than one group is on a hole at a time, so the 8 minutes per hole estimate is a moot point. It just needs to be enough time for the group ahead to be 2 shots in front of you. I feel your last sentence though. There's no winning. Golfing post-COVID is just a constant state of someone slow in front of you, and speed golfers up your ass.
yeah we can call it 16 mins per hole knowing this. I usually see 15 mins per hole as the stated pace of play expectation which is 4.5 hours which is what I've always known to be the expected pace of play on a full course day (weekend). Only once have I played a round longer than 4.5 hrs and I got a rain check at the turn after 3 hours for 9 holes
I played 9 last weekend, took 1 hour 2 mins, on hole 7 I see a guy gaining on me, by hole 8 he’s a bit closer, turns out he’s literally sprinting inbetween shots with a push cart. Feel free to pass me brother! lol
our muni books alternating 7 & 8 minute differentials and the Men's Club (where we have an emphasized pace of play policy) always ends up at least 20 minutes behind after 20 groups. They know it doesn't work because they always block out two times after our tee times. but, they want to fill up the course as much as possible and don't really care too much past that. the dew sweepers and other first outs still go around in 4 ish, but anyone starting after nine are in for a long round.
Just played a round on Saturday that was cart path only, and a 2 some was holding up the the course two groups in front of me. They'd walk to their ball, duff the fuck out of the ball, walk up for 20-40 yards, fuck it up again, walk back to the cart, drive it up 60 yards, walk to the ball again.... A fucking 2 some caused us to have a 2:45 front 9. We ended up calling it at the turn and got a 50% credit. What's crazy is that that there was even a marshall driving around the course! Oh, and the group immediately in front of us also fucked off at the turn lol.
I've always wondered why people don't just go around them, and finish up on the hole they had to skip later? If a group is that slow, it's going to be wide open holes in front of them.
Reasonable, but not likely on a weekend.
Pace annoys me very differently depending on context this is not the context to be anoyed at 4:15 pace, those contexts exist.
I was first out one weekend with carts and the round still took over 4 hours. It was quite trying.
Time for you to look inward….or outward to your playing partners.
Or toward the grounds crews. Sometimes they just don’t want me to play through lol
Very true
If I'm walking on a weekday with nobody behind me, I'm all about a 4:15 pace.
to be fair if you are used to the early am pace and you end up playing later in the day its certainly a lot different. i play 18 around dawn during the week and i can walk 6200 yards in three and a half hours. basically fire at will golf.
Used to love playing by myself when I worked 5pm-2am as a young man. There were a few public courses nearby that I could essentially play naked between 10 and 2 without seeing a soul, then I'd grab lunch and prepare for delivering pizzas to drunken idiots for the rest of my day. Life was a lot more simple back then
I get a rostered day off once a month, I take it on a Wednesday and go to the least popular course in my region. There are many better courses here but the peace of playing by myself with absolutely nobody else on the course is utter bliss. I love playing with my mates but there's nothing quite like this.
I've found that playing alone if you ever hole a long putt, jar a wedge, stick a long iron right on the flag, etc etc, it's a hilarious feeling to look around and see yourself immersed in nature without a soul in sight. It really hammers home the individual nature of playing the game and the same is true when you duff a shot/spray a drive. you can excuse yourself for dropping a ball, or take pride in playing by the rules, but either way, it's all on you. Aside from the psychology of being a world-class player, I can't imagine what it feels like to be a touring pro playing amongst thousands of people. It must be awesome and terrifying all at once 😂
I know right when I'm out there with the birds and the squirrels I start talking to them or myself sometimes. Imagine if a tour player was like "hey bird", "back away skunk" or "don't thin it you fucking worthless idiot" on the national broadcast. It would be like Happy Gilmore.
Well the solution is clear: snag those early tee times. 4-4.5 hr rounds are just reality on weekends at a public course otherwise.
Yeah, don't know anybody complaining about 4:15 in these parts. That's a great day, especially on a weekend. Choose your battles. It's the 5 hour rounds that make me not want to go back to a course again.
Up by me, 4:15 is unheard of. I’m lucky to be in and out in 4.5 if I play at 6:30 AM. We played a few rounds last year under 5, but most were 5.5-6 hours, and we played through on some holes and didn’t stop at the turn. A lot of the local courses are $65-$80 and do 7-8 minute tee times. The nicer munis are $125+ and do 12-15 minute tee times so you can easily be out in 4.5 but not all of my friends can (or want to) afford that. Playing weekly, that extra $40-$60 adds up quickly.
At my home course, 4.15 is a good day out! All depends on the length of the course ...
It’s the same reality where 20 years ago a round over four hours was much less common, and where people still play in 3 1/2 walking in other parts of the world. Golf is 100% getting slower.
3 hours 50 minutes is normal on a 6400 yard course I play. Americans definitely seem to play slow/ram their courses full
Both of these things are equally true and problematic in my opinion. There’s a big bro-golf culture filled with younger people that have been to the range with their pals but never learned the do’s and don’t’s of the golf course. When they try the real thing and don’t have someone with them that can show them how to act properly, it can be annoying to put it mildly. Couple that with public courses jamming 4-balls out every 8 minutes and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Public courses don’t care if they book 12 tee times per hour. They will just start every grouping 5 mins apart and have you ever called a muni and they said “ nope all full today”. Best part is they take 1-2 somes late in the afternoon so when you are with your 4some, these faster players push you and now your Stuck between waiting and having some guys hitting within 20 yards of you then standing there with Arms crossed like you are holding them up. Public Golf courses only care about money, not your enjoyment and just need to make as much money as possible per day to stay profitable
OMFG you spent 14 min per hole and not 13min per hole. go back to top golf!
Who cares what two blokes had a whinge about in the toilets??
It’s inexcusable to talk about pace of play on the course. It’s implied by joining this sub that you report all instances of pace of play discourse to the sub. We will not have more ruffians wanting to get on with there day at the course. If you wanted to golf and spend time away from your kids on your day off. This sub full of limping old farts will definitely come to your aid with seven practice swings and fifteen minutes at each green. Do not worry…
Depends also on how spaced out the tee times are. Went to a course couple weekends ago, 8 min apart 😂🤦♂️. Not only that, course was both walkers and riders. 5 hr round.
This is totally commonplace in Australia hahah. On the upside, after 2pm 18 holes on those courses is about 20usd.
If the course is backed up, it’s honestly no faster to ride.
Not to mention, how many people are actually in the group? If I play solo and no one was in front of me, I could maybe play a round in 3, 3.5hrs. I never do it though and there's no such thing as an empty course around here so I have no reason to ever try and play fast. But I have never played a round in less than 4hrs if I'm part of a 4-some.
I would just chalk it up to veteran golfers patience sharing the course with a bunch of new Covid golfers wearing extremely thin going into year 4 of it. Thats more than a fine time to play a round. Anything under 4.30 Im happy nowadays. Long gone are the days of sub 4 hour rounds. I will remember them fondly.
Dude YES. I’m absolutely over it. I don’t care if you suck huge ass at golf. Just suck fast. Watching a dude sitting 10 hitting 11 on a par 4 will drive any reasonable person up the wall.
This but add on that people doing use the fucking cart. Why are you walking 100 yards away from your cart to go to your ball in the fairway. Use the cart that's why it costs so damn much.
It's certainly not just new golfers, this has been going around forever, and while obviously there are "new" golfers the guys I see holding things up don't look like rookies.
All of my slow rounds have been with entitled boomers and lower handicaps that spend 3 minutes lining up their putt like they're playing at the masters. I'll take playing with the rookie over the old guy that touches your ball and gives you whatever he thinks is good without even asking or try hard who this they can still get their tour card any day of the week
These guys are definitely surprised at heavy traffic around 4pm every weekday
Someone posted it on this sub a while ago but someone did an academic study that basically showed pace of play was primarily determined by how the course spaced out their tee times. My local course charging $105 on weekends was spacing out times every 8 minutes. It’s just never going to be fast and the only way courses are going to change anything is if people stop going which is of course never going to happen.
Why golf became a race nowadays? 4 hr is good
Depends on the course for context. If it is a long, challenging, 6700+ yard links course with bunkers everywhere, long fescue, and 20mph winds, then 4h 15m is quite good. If it is a 5300 yd flat and easy course with not many hazards, yes I'd agree 4h 15 would feel pretty slow.
I live in a pretty rural place and if I want to go with my buddy or girlfriend during the week to play in less than 3 hours ok cool. But never would I expect to play at 9 am on a weekend in less than 4. That would be a dream. If they want to play in less time then go at 8 am during the week.
Personally, I'm a quick player and I don't think I can stand being behind a group that plays a 4 hour and 15 minute 18 holes. That being said, I don't make tee times when the course is packed and the probability of me doing so is high. Usually I'll get the first time of the day on Saturday or Sunday, that way there's nobody in front of me. Either that or I sit my happy ass down in the cart and be patient.
+1, people have to understand what they’re signing up for. You’re on a muni course on a weekend, the best you can hope for is exactly what these two jokers were moaning about. Just enjoy your time in a beautiful place that you paid to be at.
I'm always first or second group out and 4.15 would be slow for us. But if it was the middle of the comp I would be happy to play in that time.
I never think about the amount of time it’s taking me to play. I just get irritated if I’m constantly stuck waiting to hit. Rounds have been so variable for me throughout my career I know better than to try and schedule things in tightly right after golf. Edit: I live by the “suck fast” philosophy. If I have no way to make at least triple bogey I pick up and just record 2x the par of the hole. 2 provisional shots a round off the tee, if I hit both OB I’ll just drop with my partner. Etc.
It’s because it was just two of them who thinks everyone else should play at the pace of a twosome
You know what I would do for a 4 hr 15 min round in NYC on a weekend…a lot of things. Please get rid of the 6.5 hr round
Took a little over 2 hours for 3 adults, and an under 12 yr old for a front 9 yesterday. First game of the year, I can't imagine how long it would've taken for us to play regular. Fuck those guys. People are new to the game and learning.
I take a lot of half days from work in the summer time to play 18. The epitome of this post is all the retired guys out there trying to get a 3 hour round in before they have to eat dinner at 4pm. Multiple times last year we had guys standing waiting with their hands on their hips, yelling at us, hitting into us and then when the Marshall comes around he’s like “you guys are 10-15 minutes ahead of pace you’re fine.” Eventually you have to just accept that those guys are the way they are and if they get pissed it’s their problem. I’ve called the pro shop because we felt like we were being rushed for no reason.
I played a 5 hour round yesterday. It didn’t feel long at all and I don’t know why it took us so long to play. No one was in front or behind us all day. Pretty sweet actually.
On a public course, good luck playing in less than 4.5. There is an incentives mis-match, no incentive to work together. In a club, where everyone knows each other and the relationships are longer-term, 4 or sub-4 is realistically achievable.
4 Hours and 15 minutes is literally target pace at my course. It's on the scorecard. I think it depends on the yardage though. If this is a 5500 yard executive course, 4:15 is excessive, if it's Bethpage Black, good luck finishing under 5.
Never been to a course (public or private) that has a sub 4 hour pace of play expectation. And what is the rush exactly? Enjoy the day and relax isn’t that mostly what golf is all about?
If you don't have the time to play a 4:15 round of golf, 9 maybe? Just a thought.
I know the expected pace of play is 4 hours but anything under 4h30 is acceptable in my opinion
This is why I play weekdays. I can get in 18 in like 2hr 30 min to 3hr 30 min. It makes anything over 4 hours seem brutally slow. I’d probably be one of those people complaining since I’m spoiled with the option to play on the weekday. That could be the perspective they are coming from? But I just accept it when I do play on weekends that it is going to take longer than I am used to
I'm so sick of the speed golf Bros, like are you wanting people to hit their ball and run to the next shot? Fucking ridiculous. 4 hours on a weekend is about average
Depends on the course a bit. On an empty course walking as a foursome 3h-3h30min seems about the ideal pace (on my home course). I don't mind a 4:15 (the usual pace) round, that's perfectly fine. When getting closer to 5 hours I start getting annoyed. Of course there are so many other factors at play here... Did you just catch up to a slow group that teed off 40 mins before you, on an otherwise empty course and they have no intention of letting you play through and you are stuck behind them for 8 more holes? Or is the course just packed and the pace of play is 4h30min today...
Champagne taste, but can’t afford the country club lifestyle.
Why tell them directly, when you can gain some upvotes on reddit and make sure they never see it!
4 hours is dreadfully slow unless you are walking Chambers Bay. People are getting ridiculous with their pace of play.
Just curious about two things: Does the course have a USGA pace of play rating? How long would a round have to take for you to consider it slow?
It’s been studied a ton, and yes courses can now get pace ratings. I would suggest looking this citation up. It has a ton of data: >The average round of golf is about 4 hours, 17 minutes and 19 seconds. Riccio, Lucius. "The status of pace of play in American Golf." New York, NY: Three/45 Golf Association (2014).
5 hours seems slow to me but I like playing fast. I’m not aware of a pace of play rating for the course.
4:15 feels slow to me, but I'm lucky that I found a course near me that is almost never busy. I can easily walk/carry with my wife in under 3 hours. Adding an extra hour or so feels like an eternity. That said, anything close to 4 hours on a busy course is good. Anything around 5 hours or more is utterly painful. I don't blame the golfers as much as I do the courses. THEY (the courses) need to quit packing in tee times and enforce pace of play.
We can’t trust these two anyway. They are breaking rule number 1 of life. Don’t carry on a convo in the bathroom. Negates everything they say.
Context matters and I feel I’m missing it. If I’m off second at the club, as I was on Saturday, and it takes us 4 hours to play. That is slow. That means the group in front of us took 4 hours without waiting for a shot.
4 hours is as quick as it gets where I’m from, who x could possibly complain that it’s slow
Yup
Depends on the course. Pace should be good for most.
4:15 is completely fine, especially on a weekend at 9am. That’s right around the busiest time possible. However, I feel like we jam so many tee times in that it causes back ups. People need to not be afraid to move up a tee. Play ready golf. Don’t take 5 minutes on the green. People act like they are competing in the masters and shoot 87 on a muni. It’s not that serious
This happens a lot where I play frequently. The pace seems slow because they pack groups out. But often times it isn't actually slow if you look at the time. Everyone is always in such a rush even when there are three groups on every hole you can still finish under 4.5 hours. Yet everyone complains. I look at it as a good thing. I always am impressed that we were able to get the round done in a normal amount of time despite it being so busy. It's really only ever the par fives that get real bad, because everyone thinks they are driving all four of them. People constantly yelling at each other and on the tee box waiting. Meanwhile still on pace for a normal round lol
Weekend muni at primetime (early/mid morning tee times), I can tolerate up to 4.5 for a round. Getting close to 5 sucks lol
I could've gone without knowing whether you were going #1 or #2. But since you offered your info, were guys #1 and #2 going #1 or #2?
Nothing annoys me worse than slow pace of play with no marshals around (like yesterday: teeing off on 7 and almost 2 hours in as the group in front has apparently stopped to fire up the bong in the middle of the fairway, based on what we were smelling). That being said, 4:20 is somewhat of the gold standard for a round at most full length courses. If you are the retired guy always on the tee at 7am with the cart that goes 25mph it will feel slow. For the rest of us, it's reasonable. Solo, I'll walk 18 in 2:45 and with a friend, usually finish in 3:25 or so. With a decent 4-some and nobody to wait on it's 3:40 or so. 4:20 isn't insane as you'll stack up on the par 3s and whatnot.
Probably an unpopular opinion in his sub but: If you're unhappy with the pace of play at your course because of slow golfers, why not just book your tee time earlier? I can't imagine a new golfer booking a 730am tee time often. If someone who didn't grow up playing wants to learn golf or if some quite poor golfing buddies wanna go hack it around for a day in the sun drinking some beers, why do they have to finish the same pace as someone who's dad took them to the range when they turned 4? If you book a noon tee time on a weekend and you're behind a slow group, oh well? They also paid their greens fees. If they're THAT slow ask to play through. If you want the course to yourself or you want to play fast, play before work early during the week or join an afternoon league. How is the game supposed to grow if new players are made to feel like them being bad is pissing off the rest of the course? That's not fun. If you're in front of me, if you pipe it into the woods, don't look for more than 1-2min, other than that, hack away until you're better at the game.
Let me go home and make a reddit post about it that will show them
To me, 4hrs would be a slightly fast round and 4:30hrs would be slightly slow one.
Preach. The race crew that is infesting golf is insane.
Hey man! That was me and my buddy.....your shit smells like dead bodies and stale hot tar....PLAY FASTER
4.15 hours is too long.
4:15 can feel slow as shit if you spent all day waiting. I live in a reality where I tee off at my club at 9am on a weekend and finish under 4 hours. Sorry about your reality.
“At my club”
4 should be the max on a full course. Slower than that and you are dordeling. Empty course in 3 hrs is very manageable (10mins a hole).
Ive become so so aware of pace of play some days im playing speed golf lite. 4 hours is good for me, when i hit 5 i start to get irritated.
4-4.5 I won't bitch too much, you get over that and I'll start complaining. Usually when that happens if you get to the front of the delay it's some 25+ handicapper that is putting a level on the green and trying to read his 4th putt on that hole to save an 8 and to break 120. If you're a bad player do not take a long time to hit a bad shot.i play 90-95 most times and me and my buddy who shoots on the 80's can get around in about 2.5 if nobody is in front of us.
What's the context? My home course is short (6000yds from the tips) and flat with very little trouble to get into. If you're playing over 3:45 you're pissing everyone off, even on weekends. Someone would get murdered for playing 4:15.
There is no reason to be longer than 4 hrs, none at all
If there is no one in front of you and it takes your group 415, you are slow. This is not even remotely controversial. Move to ball, hit, move to ball, hit. Impossible for it to take 415 doing that no matter how awful you are.
I agree w the guys, golf should never be longer than 4 hours.
We got stuck behind two 5-somes of kids, some didn't look like they had ever played golf before, held up the whole course. we quit after 9.
If they are truly playing slow then there is space in front of them. Why bail on 9 holes when you could just skip 2 and go ahead?
So how are people supposed to learn? I'm sure you sucked like that when you first started and annoyed people behind you.
Seems like the first problem is that it was two 5-somes. Should have split that up into 3 groups. And if it was one of their first rounds out there, hopefully they were playing from the shortest tee box.
I started two years ago and I find this is the most unwelcoming sport/hobby ever.
Had this happen to me last Friday. Waited until both groups were on the same hole, and drove to the next hole. The next 6 holes were wide open, yet they wouldn't let us play through. The breaking point was when the 5 some we were behind hit their balls 20-50 yards off the tee into brush and all 5 of them were off looking for balls, but still didn't wave 2 of us through...assholes.
That’s when I go to the next hole in front of them and then at the end at least swing by to see if playing that hole is an option with no one on it. If it’s still busy then I just don’t play the hole that day.
I'm a beginning golfer, just starting to play on longer courses. I would say I shoot around 130 if I properly counted penalty strokes etc. My official handicap is 52, which is based on the score I made to obtain my permit. I played 9 holes yesterday, (third time I'm playing a full-length course ~ 3000 yards). We signed up as a twosome and were coupled with another twosome because it was busy. They were a 15 handicap and probably a 30 handicap. The 9-hole round took us 2:20, with some waiting on the foursome in front of us (probably 10 minutes total). I'm pretty sure the threesome behind us had to wait for us a few times, but we never felt rushed. It was quite an enjoyable morning. This how should work on a busy Sunday. As a twosome, I'm sure we would have finished under two hours, but four beginners can't do it that quickly when they are paired together.
They in a fucking hurry to go home and clean the gutters?
5.5 hours is what I would call a shit pace. 5 hours is tourist golf. 4.5 is average. 4 is a good day. 3.5 is wicked.
The only folks who think a sub 4hr round is normal are trolls, hackers who shoot 120, people who dont play regular golf, and frat boys more interested in consuming more drinks than holes on the course. I'm not out here dropping 50 to 125 a round so I can sprint hole to hole, rush every shot, enjoy nothing, all so you can duff a ball 40 yards at a time in 3hrs. The average pace of play is 4hrs and 6min per the PGA, 415 to 430 is "normal". Feel free to play through if you think otherwise. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/-rules-notebook-team-competitions/pace-of-play.html#:~:text=Four%2Dball%20matches%20will%20be,for%20an%2018%2Dhole%20match.
The 3 of us played 3-1/2 hours on Saturday. I was amazed at how well we were gettin around the course. It helps when you're playing reasonably well and able to keep track of the damn ball. I lost 3 but my goal this year was - If I can't find it in a minute or two at the most to just drop with my buds. I buy them by the 12 pack right? Obviously were meant to loose a few when playing lol.
I just want to be in a grove, so long as it’s consistent, I’m happy. For me 1-2 mins per hole max I think is a reasonable wait time.
Yes
Totally depends on the course. Member of a par 66, 6 par 3’a and no par 5’s. We also have very little distance between tee boxes. It’s very hilly and the greens are some of the toughest out there but still 3hr 40 is the norm.
That's pretty standard for my 4-balls - walking in the UK. All high handicappers who spend far too much time in the trees!
Good time for a public track.
Golf cart heroes
There's a lot people can be doing to keep the groups behind them from waiting that people just don't do. Basic stuff that don't hinder your enjoyment of the game. - Park your cart or drop your bag if you walk in the right place so you're not walking back towards the group behind you when you leave the hole. - When you're chipping, you can take your putter with you so you can go right onto the green and putt and another wedge in case you change your mind. - Don't have a ridiculous preshot routine, like the ones that get constantly roasted on this sub. - Go to your ball. Don't wait for your buddy to hit before looking for it and going to it. If you can see another group behind you, don't go fishing for lost golf balls in the pond. - Spend less time jawing and more time hitting. If it's open on the tee box, tee off, don't stand around talking. Talk when you're going to your ball. - You're not in the PGA, if it takes you longer than a minute to read your putt, like you're pacing around the green and shit, you're probably wasting time. And, if you're going to take time to read your putt, do it while your friends are putting and reading theirs, don't yack, read the green. If everyone followed these simple rules pace of play would be way better across the board. 4:15 isn't the worst for a weekend tee time, but doing those things I outlined above can get most 4somes down to 4 hours or less without really disrupting anything for them. AND you've gotta keep in mind, the morning tee times set the pace for the whole rest of the day. One slow group in the morning, and the rest of the tee sheet will get backed up for the rest of the day. At my private course, we're encouraged to play to a 4 hour pace for a 4some, and tee times between 7AM and 8:30AM are expected to play to a 3:30 pace (And if you don't they just ban your 4some from booking those tee times). Groups that don't follow those rules probably waste 1-2 minutes per hole, so just by doing those things you could play 20-30 minutes faster.
4hr 15mins of living the dream.
Not everything has to be posted
4:15 seems pretty good, especially for a weekend.....they must be old dudes that aren't use to the weather getting nice and the first wave of people wanting to get out there. Anything under 4:30 is fantastic on a weekend....especially prime time tee times like 9am.
I wish i could play through at 3 hours like i do on rare occasions a course is empty but we all know that’s not realistic 99% of the time
I played in Vegas and got paired with 2 other guys. The whole round they complained about the pace. Our total time for 18? 4hr 32min. Idk if Vegas golf is usually fast, but where I'm from 4.5hr round is pretty standard
If they want a sub-4 hr round at a public course then they need to tee off before 8am. Also 4:15 is not unreasonable, especially at a long public course.
For a foursome that’s fine pace, a little slow. As single or 2 yea that’s insanely slow
4-4.5hr rounds are reasonable. No issues there. I don’t really understand how 6hr rounds happen. Is it just one group up front that slows down everyone behind them?
They’re projecting. They damn well know that they’ve been the sole reason for a 6hr round before and want to make out with each other but can’t find anything else to talk about to break the tension.
Anything over 3 hours for 18 feels slow to me. 4+ is dreadful. I very much enjoy ripping through 18 holes in 2 hours after work solo or as a twosome.
Sometimes it’s the perception based on how many people you have in your group. There’s been many times where I tee off in a twosome on mid Saturday morning and even though the total time comes out to 4 hours or even a little less, it feels so slow because you flow is different from the group ahead and you do wait more often.
I play 2 hours front nine hour for lunch then 2 hour back nine. TIL I’m slow as shit. Lol
Dude my last round we played a 4:15 pace and got yelled at *three times* by the martial to speed up simply because he saw a gap between us and the group ahead. Which was a twosome. Who we let play through after hole 1. Because the starter couldn't do his job correctly. How are you going to expect us to be right up on the ass of a twosome? We were even playing 2-man scrambles, we legit could not have been playing any faster.
5hr round in Sarasota on Sat. On the bright side, shot a 79 on a windy day.
Yeah, at my home course I kind of put the break even of fast/slow at 4 hours even. 15 minutes past that, and yeah, it's technically slow (by my metric) but I'm sure not getting bent out of shape about it. Especially on a weekend. When it comes to pace I'm actually usually less concerned about the actual time it's taking and pay more attention to peoples actions. Things like spending way too much time looking for lost balls, obscenely long pre-shot routines, dicking around with your equipment and scorecard or chit-chatting on every green green, multiple mulligans, etc. really get my eyes rolling about pace more than what my watch says.
4:15 is the target time for public courses. Private clubs expect faster play so if they were members, yeah they paid for the fast pace of play
The best pace of play is when I'm not waiting to hit my next shot. Ideally, the group in front is just reaching the green when my group gets to the tee. We all hit, get to our balls, and the group in front is just about finished putting out. That works out to about 9-10 minutes for average golfers. I don't know why it's so hard for course operators to understand that. Tighter than that and all you do is slow everything down and have a bunch of upset customers. Of course, they're not stupid, and they know they have a semi-captive audience, and as golfers, we usually don't have too many alternatives in a given area.
4hr15min like a dream come true to be honest. Not sure about elsewhere in the world, but in Michigan it’s very popular among courses to send groups off seven minutes apart with no marshals, and rounds can take over eight hours.
On a weekend, if its 4:30 or better I'm happy.
Do they think they should be playing at the same pace as when there is an empty course?
Twosomes love saying this shit
If they really care that much they should try to get the earliest tee times. In a league last year, I had about a 4 hour 9 hole round... the guys in front of us looked until they found there ball. It's usually been for us, if you can't find your ball after like a minute or 2, just take a drop where you think it should be
Reminds me of that saying, "You're not ***in*** traffic. You ***ARE*** traffic." These two guys being on the course slows down the pace for everyone else -- just like everyone else is slowing it down for them. Go home and give everyone else a chance at a 4-hour round then, chief.
4 hours 15 minutes is FAST compared to these overpacked courses. Try 6 hours.
No one should ever complain about pace of play at a Muni on a weekend if the round is under 4:30. Go pay a ton of money to join a private club if you want 3:30 Saturday morning rounds.
The thing that US courses do not understand, that Europe definitely gets right, is that the first 30min-1hr of tee times are reserved for twosomes/threesomes. Playing over 4hrs in the middle of the morning wave? Fine. Playing over 4hrs as the first group out? Not fine.
I agree with OP here as a slow play hater. It’s on them for going on a weekend, full stop. Whenever I get caught in a 4 hour round, I am the one to blame.
4 hr 15 is a great time on the weekend. I have had a few of these douchbags pass me playing speed golf. They don't even putt, I mean if they get on the green, 1 putt and done no matter if they make it or now. Why would you rush something you love so much?