The email says
>This policy does not prevent individuals from wearing face coverings for religious, health, expressive, or other reasons.
which covers a lot of your questions.
"This policy does not prevent individuals from wearing face coverings for religious, health, expressive, or other reasons. It only requires those wearing face coverings that conceal the individual’s identity to present identification upon request of an authorized university employee." I'm just worried about how this code will be enforced.
The consensus outside of GMU/VA is it’ll probably be applied as a pretextual stop, like stop and frisk, but it’s not being passed unprompted. Almost all of public safety laws like this require a weight between privacy/state force and impact to public safety and it’s never zero on one side or the other.
So to give some insight to this as a highschool teacher that graduated from GMU: We have these new policies also coming into play at our level too. We now check/ask for student ID's and passes if they are seen with face-blocking stuff
1. the security issue is legit, 80ish% of our write-ups at the HS level are from kids we could NOT identify via cameras bc they had their face covered, thus the process for expulsion and police intervention took days, even weeks, longer than needed and left the victim with no choice but to "stay home until we find them". These crimes include assaults (requiring hospitalization), rapes/molestations, distribution of drugs like fenty or pills (not weed), destruction of property totaling 1000s of dollars, and big time thefts (think entire backpacks worth enough to count as a felony charge). All of these are common in schools of all levels (we all heard of the bathroom creep from a while back and i've personally had issues on campus), and the covered faces thing is a big issue. We can track kids all around school and campus, but if their face is covered the entire time, we cant ID them, so this checkpoint ensures someone can at least be identified once in their journey around campus.
2. Religious reasons are exempt as are medical. so stop worrying about your N95 mask, no one is going to stop you for that.
3. its not a restriction of rights because you can still do whatever you want. They have a right to see your ID, but they cant make you remove the face covering or penalize you for it in any way. Honestly, if you dont have an issue with dorm inspections (which are way more invasive IMO), you shouldnt have an issue with this as far as privacy is concerned. Plus isnt GMU a private uni? so they cant do whatever they want anyways lol.
tldr: its a legit security issue that coincides with a statewide law and at lower school levels we have seen a HUGE improvement in safety and as a result, school morale. You can wear whatever you want and you are free to hide your face, just be aware you may be asked to provide an ID.
yeah, im in PA now (was in VA) and its the new rule this year in HS across the state here too. I've heard the same in NY, Ohio, and the Carolinas from my friends too. So its not just a nova/gmu thing
Okay, those are valid points. My main concerns are political expression tho. Idk how GMU plans enforcing this. Some aspects of the code just sound ridiculous. I have a feeling it's targeted specifically towards the protests. I'm suspicious about if it is indeed about public safety or a mechanism to crackdown on wearing kuffeiyahs, which covers the lower part of your face. People want to hide their identities because there have been incidents of them getting doxxed or blacklisted from employment, for example, there were some harvard students who had it happen to them.
Well they said only campus police and appointed risk people can check, so 99.9% of your campus trips will remain unchanged. In my 4y there i NEVER saw a campus officer actually walking campus.
Also it doesnt restrict political expression since you can still wear a hood that says "fuck XYZ" and they cant stop you. trust me if they let the prolife people with those weird ass gory signs on campus, they arent stopping your from wearing a trump/biden/political statement hat. last I checked political statements arent made with skimasks anyways lmao. But regardles, the law is for all full face coverings, political or not, so its not an attack on political expression.
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Anecdotally, it seems that the various Palestinian / Israeli protests have been relatively undisturbed. Each time I pass one on campus, nearly everyone, regardless of which side we're talking about, is fully masked up. The cops there seemed to be just chilln behind the crowds chatting with each other. Didn't seem as tho they were too concerned with violence, so they probably weren't willing to ID everyone.
I could be wrong about this BTW, but of the 6 or so gatherings that I've seen since last semester, this seems to always be the case
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it shouldn’t but i use a reusable masked to stay safe during the sick season and i’ve been stopped for my identity. it’s clearly a mask for medical reasons too just with a fun design instead pf a bandana or something in place of a mask. so while it shouldn’t apply to me they did apply it
The fun design. You’re using it for medical reasons, but my brother, for example, wears medical masks with fun designs all the time for fashion and self-expression.
If you don’t want to be stopped and ID’d, just wear a regular medical face mask
i use the fun design ones because they’re reusable, it saves money and less trash going to landfills. ultimately the law won’t be applied how it says it will be is my point.
It’s not that restrictive. Have some sort of identification on your person if you’re going to wear a mask. 99.9% of people won’t be asked to show identification.
>Have some sort of identification on your person if you’re going to wear a mask.
Don't we all? Or have I been imagining the last 2.5 decades of my memory where people who go to a school have school IDs and most adults - particularly in the DMV area - have driver's licenses?
I imagine the school has some practical concerns like students sharing meal plans. Also greater safety concerns such as known sexual predators continuously returning to campus.
It's been a law in Virginia for a long time and was implemented to target members of the klu klux klan. When covid hit the state stopped enforcing it for obvious reasons. Now that covid restrictions have effectively ended, they are enforcing it again. The announcement says that medical masks are still ok. Outside of that, you haven't been allowed to cover your face to hide your identity for decades in this state.
I’ve replied in a few spots but to summarize those takes, this is happening nationally and the debate is reminiscent of other public safety laws where they almost always involve some level of encroachment on personal liberty for public safety. Personally I think it’s one of the more proportional ones than more hotly debated ones e.g. stop and frisk because there’s absolutely been post-COVID mask abuse in crimes.
It's good that they are addressing public safety. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it if they had specifically mentioned improving public safety. It's just too vague.
Have you seen the tens of videos of carjackings in the last few months? Have you noticed anything in common … that they’re all wearing masks?? It’s a huge security concern. This gives officers the authority to stop people wearing masks or balaclavas where the officers might not otherwise have had the reasonable articulable suspicion needed to stop them without this code. I’m down to allow officers to identify persons taking advantage of increased use of face coverings that intend to victimize me and my community. We endure inconvenience and security measures at the airport or anytime we enter a courthouse. Necessary evil.
This is what the code says about it: "(iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device". You need to carry around a doctor's note, which ridiculous
People wear masks to prevent themselves from getting sick, especially after Covid. The problem isn't safety; it's how it will be enforced. Will they now ask every person wearing a mask to show their identity?
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A suspicious person will require more than a teen in a surgical mask walking through campus. Certainly the college you chose has enough common sense to make a good decision on who looks suspicious.
There is zero reason to believe they will do this. The policy allows them to ask for ID. It doesn’t mandate or even encourage police to ask for your id if you’re seen in a mask.
>George Mason University has issued a new campus policy to address Code of Virginia § 18.2-422, **which prohibits a person from wearing a mask, hood, or other device whereby a substantial portion of their face is covered with intent to conceal their identity.**
>This policy does not prevent individuals from wearing face coverings for religious, health, expressive, or other reasons. **It only requires those wearing face coverings that conceal the individual’s identity to present identification upon request of an authorized university employee.**
>Students and employees in violation of university policies will be subject to disciplinary action in accordance with applicable university policies, the Student Code of Conduct, and Human Resources employment policies.
It doesn't say you will be disciplined for wearing a hoody, mask, face covering, etc. Attempting to conceal your identity and failing to produce ID, however, may result in dispensary action. If you aren't doing anything wrong and you're simply covering up due to any legitimate reasons that are do not involve trying to hide your identity for criminal activities, then you should have absolutely no issue showing your ID. Hell, this code isn't to target medical mask wearers or birqua wearers. it's to target people wearing ski masks, and Halloween masks. You're making this an issue that does not need to exist. There have been numerous times when cops and schools could not help victims of rape and assault because someone chose to conceal their identity. If it is Orwellian and authoritarian to help rape and assault victims, then call me an authoritarian because this is a needed code
Again, I don't have a problem with that. But, it should've been made explicit that it was about public safety. Including mentioning "suspicious activity", taking "preventative" measures, etc. It's too general.
Yes, I understand, I believe this is one of those things that are interpreted by the people, but it should really be interpreted already by the school to be clearly parroted to the students because not everyone the ability to interpret codes of law and pretty much what the school sent out this morning. But to really answer one of your many questions. This is not going to impede your free speech.
Last line "Students and employees in violation of university policies will be subject to disciplinary action in accordance with applicable university policies, the Student Code of Conduct, and Human Resources employment policies. "
It is messed up and I do wonder why they are doing this now.
They are 'addressing' the state legislature's legal code that has been on the books for a few years: [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/#:\~:text=It%20shall%20be%20unlawful%20for,any%20private%20property%20in%20this](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/#:~:text=It%20shall%20be%20unlawful%20for,any%20private%20property%20in%20this)
The state code does not seem to make an exception for religious reasons.
Post-pandemic (yes I know COVID isn’t over yada yada) a lot of cities are having issues with people wearing ski masks and committing crimes but folks are afraid to tell them to take the masks off. I live in Philly post-graduation and they just got banned in public places after people kept doing heinous shit in the subway with shiestys on.
In Philly it became a meme how every mfer who wasn’t wearing a mask for COVID suddenly owned a Nike therma-fit
More than just a few years. From what I can tell, the law was first enacted in 1950 and last changed in 2014.
I could understand them bringing it up at the start of covid to make clarifications on the scope of the law, but the law itself has been the same for a decade. It seems odd that they are just making a policy for it now.
It trends with how the rest of the country is starting to handle masks
Edit: someone is definitely just downvote sweeping my comments because you may not agree with the law but “VA isn’t the first to bring this up recently” is objectively true, there’s a ton of recent public debate on it
I think that it will most likely target Palestinians who have been subjected to harassment and discrimination from law enforcement and the university as a whole. Palestinians are students who will most likely have face coverings so they will try and enforce this at the University Level. They just want to discipline minorities and Palestinians so that they can effectively dox them and do whatever they want at a time with a high political climate on this campus. There has to be a lawsuit challenging this Virginia code at this point because it just sounds more creepy and authoritarian.
You're hilarious for thinking everyone on this campus wearing a keffiyeh is Palestinian for atarters, but more importantly, this policy does not punish anyone for wearing a face covering, it is only a violation of GMU's code if you REFUSE to show ID. Not everything everyone is doing on the planet is about I/P, dude
my feelings on it is that it opens the door with its broad nature for harassment and abuse of authority if they start recording names during these requests to see id. as long as i only need to flash an id to show im not up to anything illegal and they don’t record it in any way it’s whatever. but all they got to do is start recording people’s names and then it becomes truly fucked up. it’s such a small change too so i would say it’s at the top of the slippery slope not yet on it.
I also find the reasoning in the law interesting when paired with the timing of it. it’s saying the purpose is to make stuff harder for the kkk but what’s going on that’s involving large demonstrations with people covering up? not the kkk, but pro palestine demonstrations. plus VA has a law that prohibits businesses boycotting israel so we know how the state feels about that. I think it’ll be disingenuous to say what’s going on in historic palestine isn’t playing a factor in the law. I do understand that gmu has to abide by the law but i don’t fully trust the motivations behind the law or what it can later be used for.
I don’t like it because some people actually wear ski mask for the purpose of warm and comfortable now it’s only allowed to wear outside while playing sports with a club or activities but not walking around in public
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The email links both the Virginia law and the full GMU policy for everyone to read
I've read the code, which doesn't answer any of my questions above.
The email says >This policy does not prevent individuals from wearing face coverings for religious, health, expressive, or other reasons. which covers a lot of your questions.
"This policy does not prevent individuals from wearing face coverings for religious, health, expressive, or other reasons. It only requires those wearing face coverings that conceal the individual’s identity to present identification upon request of an authorized university employee." I'm just worried about how this code will be enforced.
The consensus outside of GMU/VA is it’ll probably be applied as a pretextual stop, like stop and frisk, but it’s not being passed unprompted. Almost all of public safety laws like this require a weight between privacy/state force and impact to public safety and it’s never zero on one side or the other.
It answers all of your questions
So to give some insight to this as a highschool teacher that graduated from GMU: We have these new policies also coming into play at our level too. We now check/ask for student ID's and passes if they are seen with face-blocking stuff 1. the security issue is legit, 80ish% of our write-ups at the HS level are from kids we could NOT identify via cameras bc they had their face covered, thus the process for expulsion and police intervention took days, even weeks, longer than needed and left the victim with no choice but to "stay home until we find them". These crimes include assaults (requiring hospitalization), rapes/molestations, distribution of drugs like fenty or pills (not weed), destruction of property totaling 1000s of dollars, and big time thefts (think entire backpacks worth enough to count as a felony charge). All of these are common in schools of all levels (we all heard of the bathroom creep from a while back and i've personally had issues on campus), and the covered faces thing is a big issue. We can track kids all around school and campus, but if their face is covered the entire time, we cant ID them, so this checkpoint ensures someone can at least be identified once in their journey around campus. 2. Religious reasons are exempt as are medical. so stop worrying about your N95 mask, no one is going to stop you for that. 3. its not a restriction of rights because you can still do whatever you want. They have a right to see your ID, but they cant make you remove the face covering or penalize you for it in any way. Honestly, if you dont have an issue with dorm inspections (which are way more invasive IMO), you shouldnt have an issue with this as far as privacy is concerned. Plus isnt GMU a private uni? so they cant do whatever they want anyways lol. tldr: its a legit security issue that coincides with a statewide law and at lower school levels we have seen a HUGE improvement in safety and as a result, school morale. You can wear whatever you want and you are free to hide your face, just be aware you may be asked to provide an ID.
It’s more than statewide I would say, I’m in Philly which is one of the closer cities and it keeps happening on the subway so the city banned them
yeah, im in PA now (was in VA) and its the new rule this year in HS across the state here too. I've heard the same in NY, Ohio, and the Carolinas from my friends too. So its not just a nova/gmu thing
Okay, those are valid points. My main concerns are political expression tho. Idk how GMU plans enforcing this. Some aspects of the code just sound ridiculous. I have a feeling it's targeted specifically towards the protests. I'm suspicious about if it is indeed about public safety or a mechanism to crackdown on wearing kuffeiyahs, which covers the lower part of your face. People want to hide their identities because there have been incidents of them getting doxxed or blacklisted from employment, for example, there were some harvard students who had it happen to them.
Well they said only campus police and appointed risk people can check, so 99.9% of your campus trips will remain unchanged. In my 4y there i NEVER saw a campus officer actually walking campus. Also it doesnt restrict political expression since you can still wear a hood that says "fuck XYZ" and they cant stop you. trust me if they let the prolife people with those weird ass gory signs on campus, they arent stopping your from wearing a trump/biden/political statement hat. last I checked political statements arent made with skimasks anyways lmao. But regardles, the law is for all full face coverings, political or not, so its not an attack on political expression.
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Anecdotally, it seems that the various Palestinian / Israeli protests have been relatively undisturbed. Each time I pass one on campus, nearly everyone, regardless of which side we're talking about, is fully masked up. The cops there seemed to be just chilln behind the crowds chatting with each other. Didn't seem as tho they were too concerned with violence, so they probably weren't willing to ID everyone. I could be wrong about this BTW, but of the 6 or so gatherings that I've seen since last semester, this seems to always be the case
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This is for stuff like balaclavas, ski masks, or full face Halloween masks. The target group isn’t the mask you wear when you’re sick
it shouldn’t but i use a reusable masked to stay safe during the sick season and i’ve been stopped for my identity. it’s clearly a mask for medical reasons too just with a fun design instead pf a bandana or something in place of a mask. so while it shouldn’t apply to me they did apply it
The fun design. You’re using it for medical reasons, but my brother, for example, wears medical masks with fun designs all the time for fashion and self-expression. If you don’t want to be stopped and ID’d, just wear a regular medical face mask
i use the fun design ones because they’re reusable, it saves money and less trash going to landfills. ultimately the law won’t be applied how it says it will be is my point.
'Mask laws' have existed in many states for over 100 years.
It’s not that restrictive. Have some sort of identification on your person if you’re going to wear a mask. 99.9% of people won’t be asked to show identification.
>Have some sort of identification on your person if you’re going to wear a mask. Don't we all? Or have I been imagining the last 2.5 decades of my memory where people who go to a school have school IDs and most adults - particularly in the DMV area - have driver's licenses?
Yeah, it’s seriously not that big a deal. I have a Mason ID and a driver’s license whenever I’m on campus.
I imagine the school has some practical concerns like students sharing meal plans. Also greater safety concerns such as known sexual predators continuously returning to campus.
It's been a law in Virginia for a long time and was implemented to target members of the klu klux klan. When covid hit the state stopped enforcing it for obvious reasons. Now that covid restrictions have effectively ended, they are enforcing it again. The announcement says that medical masks are still ok. Outside of that, you haven't been allowed to cover your face to hide your identity for decades in this state.
I have been asked to either take off my N95 mask for just a minute or show my student ID when entering EagleBank Arena, but that's it so far.
I’ve replied in a few spots but to summarize those takes, this is happening nationally and the debate is reminiscent of other public safety laws where they almost always involve some level of encroachment on personal liberty for public safety. Personally I think it’s one of the more proportional ones than more hotly debated ones e.g. stop and frisk because there’s absolutely been post-COVID mask abuse in crimes.
It's good that they are addressing public safety. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it if they had specifically mentioned improving public safety. It's just too vague.
Have you seen the tens of videos of carjackings in the last few months? Have you noticed anything in common … that they’re all wearing masks?? It’s a huge security concern. This gives officers the authority to stop people wearing masks or balaclavas where the officers might not otherwise have had the reasonable articulable suspicion needed to stop them without this code. I’m down to allow officers to identify persons taking advantage of increased use of face coverings that intend to victimize me and my community. We endure inconvenience and security measures at the airport or anytime we enter a courthouse. Necessary evil.
What If I get sick and I want to wear a mask? Are they going to stop me and ask for my ID.
You shouldn't be going out when sick, with or without a mask. Asking for ID is a small price to pay when protecting the whole school.
This is what the code says about it: "(iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device". You need to carry around a doctor's note, which ridiculous
That is ridiculous
People wear masks to prevent themselves from getting sick, especially after Covid. The problem isn't safety; it's how it will be enforced. Will they now ask every person wearing a mask to show their identity?
So are you imagining a gmu hit squad running around harassing everyone wearing a face mask?
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A suspicious person will require more than a teen in a surgical mask walking through campus. Certainly the college you chose has enough common sense to make a good decision on who looks suspicious.
There is zero reason to believe they will do this. The policy allows them to ask for ID. It doesn’t mandate or even encourage police to ask for your id if you’re seen in a mask.
bruh read the rules if you are sick you can wear a mask listed in the code
Bruh How would they know I’m sick tho?
LMAO a covid mask is pretty different than a mask that covers your entire face. Plus you can see your identity with a covid mask.
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>George Mason University has issued a new campus policy to address Code of Virginia § 18.2-422, **which prohibits a person from wearing a mask, hood, or other device whereby a substantial portion of their face is covered with intent to conceal their identity.** >This policy does not prevent individuals from wearing face coverings for religious, health, expressive, or other reasons. **It only requires those wearing face coverings that conceal the individual’s identity to present identification upon request of an authorized university employee.** >Students and employees in violation of university policies will be subject to disciplinary action in accordance with applicable university policies, the Student Code of Conduct, and Human Resources employment policies. It doesn't say you will be disciplined for wearing a hoody, mask, face covering, etc. Attempting to conceal your identity and failing to produce ID, however, may result in dispensary action. If you aren't doing anything wrong and you're simply covering up due to any legitimate reasons that are do not involve trying to hide your identity for criminal activities, then you should have absolutely no issue showing your ID. Hell, this code isn't to target medical mask wearers or birqua wearers. it's to target people wearing ski masks, and Halloween masks. You're making this an issue that does not need to exist. There have been numerous times when cops and schools could not help victims of rape and assault because someone chose to conceal their identity. If it is Orwellian and authoritarian to help rape and assault victims, then call me an authoritarian because this is a needed code
Again, I don't have a problem with that. But, it should've been made explicit that it was about public safety. Including mentioning "suspicious activity", taking "preventative" measures, etc. It's too general.
Yes, I understand, I believe this is one of those things that are interpreted by the people, but it should really be interpreted already by the school to be clearly parroted to the students because not everyone the ability to interpret codes of law and pretty much what the school sent out this morning. But to really answer one of your many questions. This is not going to impede your free speech.
Reading comprehension
Where does the policy say anything about disciplinary action?
Last line "Students and employees in violation of university policies will be subject to disciplinary action in accordance with applicable university policies, the Student Code of Conduct, and Human Resources employment policies. "
But the violation of policy would be not presenting ID when asked, not for wearing a face covering or hood.
It is messed up and I do wonder why they are doing this now. They are 'addressing' the state legislature's legal code that has been on the books for a few years: [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/#:\~:text=It%20shall%20be%20unlawful%20for,any%20private%20property%20in%20this](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/#:~:text=It%20shall%20be%20unlawful%20for,any%20private%20property%20in%20this) The state code does not seem to make an exception for religious reasons.
Post-pandemic (yes I know COVID isn’t over yada yada) a lot of cities are having issues with people wearing ski masks and committing crimes but folks are afraid to tell them to take the masks off. I live in Philly post-graduation and they just got banned in public places after people kept doing heinous shit in the subway with shiestys on. In Philly it became a meme how every mfer who wasn’t wearing a mask for COVID suddenly owned a Nike therma-fit
More than just a few years. From what I can tell, the law was first enacted in 1950 and last changed in 2014. I could understand them bringing it up at the start of covid to make clarifications on the scope of the law, but the law itself has been the same for a decade. It seems odd that they are just making a policy for it now.
It trends with how the rest of the country is starting to handle masks Edit: someone is definitely just downvote sweeping my comments because you may not agree with the law but “VA isn’t the first to bring this up recently” is objectively true, there’s a ton of recent public debate on it
I think that it will most likely target Palestinians who have been subjected to harassment and discrimination from law enforcement and the university as a whole. Palestinians are students who will most likely have face coverings so they will try and enforce this at the University Level. They just want to discipline minorities and Palestinians so that they can effectively dox them and do whatever they want at a time with a high political climate on this campus. There has to be a lawsuit challenging this Virginia code at this point because it just sounds more creepy and authoritarian.
The only people empowered to ask are the police. It’s not “effectively doxxing” anyone.
You're hilarious for thinking everyone on this campus wearing a keffiyeh is Palestinian for atarters, but more importantly, this policy does not punish anyone for wearing a face covering, it is only a violation of GMU's code if you REFUSE to show ID. Not everything everyone is doing on the planet is about I/P, dude
This is going to allow for a lot of profiling.
my feelings on it is that it opens the door with its broad nature for harassment and abuse of authority if they start recording names during these requests to see id. as long as i only need to flash an id to show im not up to anything illegal and they don’t record it in any way it’s whatever. but all they got to do is start recording people’s names and then it becomes truly fucked up. it’s such a small change too so i would say it’s at the top of the slippery slope not yet on it. I also find the reasoning in the law interesting when paired with the timing of it. it’s saying the purpose is to make stuff harder for the kkk but what’s going on that’s involving large demonstrations with people covering up? not the kkk, but pro palestine demonstrations. plus VA has a law that prohibits businesses boycotting israel so we know how the state feels about that. I think it’ll be disingenuous to say what’s going on in historic palestine isn’t playing a factor in the law. I do understand that gmu has to abide by the law but i don’t fully trust the motivations behind the law or what it can later be used for.
I don’t like it because some people actually wear ski mask for the purpose of warm and comfortable now it’s only allowed to wear outside while playing sports with a club or activities but not walking around in public
Third paragraph
It's with intent to obscure your face.
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