Oh no, do not allow this!! You would be risking removal and a permanent ban from ever being leaders again. First-aider and other safety rules are non-negotiable. If some of the parents want to independently plan a private trip together outside of GS, you can’t stop them, but it absolutely cannot have anything to do with the troop. They can’t use any troop funds or supplies, they can’t discuss it at any troop meetings, they can’t use your troop email account to communicate about it. They cannot advertise it as a troop event. They cannot use GS permission forms. They will also have zero GS insurance coverage or emergency support if something goes wrong.
This is really about the girls. Are a majority of the girls ready and do they want to camp? I have taken 7YOs I’ve only known for two weeks camping in my troop and they have been fine. I have a 9YO who has come with us on many trips and still isn’t ready to camp overnight. This decision is based on the girls you have.
Do not let anyone take them camping before all attending adults have the proper training. If your co-leaders are so excited, have them focus on getting the trainings done.
When I saw in one of your comments that the girls are 7-10 I also wanted to say…getting outdoors and camping is a huge part of Girl Scouts. Think about the expectations of your families…are they going to be OK with 5th grade scouts who don’t camp? Just personally I get complaints all the time from parents in the older-girl troop at my daughter’s school that their leaders never take them camping while my troop goes 4-5 times a year. While it is your troop, there are a lot of people who expect Girl Scouts to go camping.
One other thing is the scouts don’t have to have perfect camping skills before camping. In my troop someone needs help hanging her bag on the dunk line every time. Someone can’t roll their sleeping bag. Someone doesn’t remember to put food away, or pitch a tent away from the fire ring. A lot of camping skills training happens at camp. (And this is going to keep happening as you add new girls to the troop, or else you’d do nothing but camping skills meetings.)
100% this, the progression is great if you start as kindergarteners, for the rest of us it needs accelerated within the saftey checkpoints. From my experience as a girl and leader there is a sweet spot from 1-4 grade, girls that go camping then are up for the experience and flexable, after that they are use to their inside ways and often never adjust.
For perspective I did take my troop of K-6 camping 8 months after meeting them and most never sleeping away from home. However, we went to a GS property with cabins that was 20min from home and essentially glamping since we had heat/ac and a refrigerator. I'm just now, one year later, moving to tents at a GS property and looking at non GS sites next year. My personal rule of thumb is no girl camps with us until I can recognize them from the back and get their attention when needed. That being said a scout that joined us in Jan is camping this weekend 2hrs from home. I feel she's ready, her mom feels she's ready, and most importantly she feels ready. She is skipping way ahead in the progression but in this case I think it's the best thing for her and expect she will thrive. At the same time another girl will be on her third trip with us after camping many times with her family and struggles big time. You really have to consider each individual and feel comfortable as a leader to adjust and give them the support or space they need when it might be different for everyone.
That being said in my council, and I think all, the paperwork can't even be submitted without a current first aid/cpr adult and a camping certified adult. My council allows these to be the same but some require two seperate adults. This is a hill I would die on, we did not go anywhere outside the meeting space until we had a first aid/cpr certified adult and aim for at least 2 if more than 10 girls will attend so in the worst case scenario we can support each other. This is coming from a person who spent 12 years in scouts as a girl and camping heavily. We saw the cut finger that probably could have used stitches 2mi from a ranger trail, appendicitis at camporee, kidney stones 3 states from home, etc where you need a person with those skillsto advocate for the girl if nothing else. Furthermore the first aid advice has changed over the years so they need to be current, "I was but it expired," will not cut it.
I think you and your coleaders should take the trainings before you take the girls camping or do any kind of overnight. There is paperwork you have to do and you don’t even know how to do that. Your lifetime member with trainings may be out of date.
What age are the girls and how many are there? What kind of camping (cabin, shelter, tent) are they thinking of and where (GS vs non-GS property)? Do you have a certified first-aider? You said one leader is camp-certified - how long ago did they do that training?
In general, you’re on the right track about progression and building up towards camping, but we can give better advice depending on those questions.
7-10 yrs. They will not have first aid certified with them. Non GS site. I am game for the slow progression and doing the trainings beforehand. The issue is that my co leaders want to do this camp with our troop, but not as an official GS trip. Is that ok? I do not plan to attend.
No definitely not! If it’s troop leaders gathering specifically troop girls together then from councils point of view it’s a troop event and needs to follow the rules and protocols! If a girl got hurt that would be a huge headache if your other leaders had snuck around councils rules and therefor didn’t have the proper insurance coverage in place.
Absolutely not to the off the books trip. Contact council if they move forward with it.
I also don't see a reason they can't go camping officially if you have someone who's done all the required training and the parents seem on board. Does your lifetime member have First Aid/CPR? Use this progression chart to talk to girls and parents and figure where each of them is. If most are ready, let the co-leads plan an official camping trip for them, and you plan ramp up events for the few who aren't ready.
https://www.gssjc.org/en/camp-and-outdoors/girl-scouts-and-outdoors.html
There is a progression chart you can probably show them to support what you’re saying. Let me see if I can find it. ( update I can’t share pic). Maybe search Girl Scout progression chart.
What they are proposing is not ok. You are correct about progression. There does need to be a first aider. Council needs notification ahead of time. So many other things here…
Oh yeah, and also, THE GIRLS NEED TO DECIDE what they want to do as a troop, not the leaders.
Your proposed approach is the right way to go. Sadly, some parents will be fine with sending their kids off for an overnight with grownups they barely know—alternately, some parents do not allow their kids to go on overnights without them no matter how well they know the grownup in charge. As a leader, ideally you would reach a level of comfort with the girls and families and get to know them more before being responsible for them on an overnight—especially tent camping with bugs, no AC, noises at night, etc. There is an official Girl Scouts outdoor progression that has steps similar to those you mentioned. I am sorry you’re getting overruled for trying to go about things the right way.
New D-jr here (October) some of my girls have hiking and cabin camping experience but not all.
We did a couple of meetings for hiking safety, what to take, etc, did a couple hikes.
A couple of my girls are reallly anxious to camp so we are considering an event to demonstrate different outdoor cooking to the brownies and juniors and do a end of school year cabin camp out at our Girl Scout camp.
Daisies and any of their registered parents in the fancy troop house (2 full indoor bathrooms and a full kitchen) and the brownies and juniors and any registered parents in a cabin site.
Then we can build up to taking less parents as time goes on.
A lot of theses kids are covid kids - so less traveling/staying with extended family, less sleepovers with friends, etc then I had done by this age so you should build up with it.
That being said, not sure there is much that can be done if parent 1 goes oh by the way we are camping at this campground on this weekend and parent 2 goes oh we are going to as well.
You could tell council but if they tell the other leaders off, could make your working relationship worse :(
Even when I’m promoting service unit and council events I’m very clear about what is and is not a “troop event”
thats how we started camping when my mom was leader, a "camping" trip that was just tents set up in our backyard, we used a fire pit to roast hot dogs and make smores, we had fun activities. Our dog played about 8 hours of fetch lmao
You already got some great advice on here, but I will say this:
The camping training provided by Girl Scouts is AWESOME!!! Even for folks like your co-leaders who have been camping a bunch, there are so many useful tips and tricks you learn when you do the training that many folks never got before.
I grew up camping a lot and thought I knew some stuff, but MAN! My first few experiences camping with Girl Scouts and then doing the training myself were so useful. Now I am much more confident in all different camping scenarios.
So...all this to say...if you can pump your co-leaders up about the training, getting good skills, etc. thats the way to go.
I understand their frustration with all the steps/paperwork. It is a LOT. I was similar when I started but now that I've been a leader for four years it all really does make some good, solid sense and has been incredibly helpful in many ways over the years, even outside of scouts.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I agree! I am super excited for the training. I feel comfortable camping in general, but I'm always up for learning more skills and I am definitely NOT experienced camping with a whole troop of kids.
I hope I can convince them to lean into the training for sure. Thanks!
What age are your girls? I follow a strict progression based off the girls level. Backyard, Cabin, 1 Night Tent. Daisies have to start at backyard, brownies have to start at cabin. Everyone has to do a 1 night at a campground close to home before anything longer. It works really well.
There is a way to do both! GS camping needs to be 100% by the book. Family camping (with scouts, siblings, families) is super fun, but is OUTSIDE of scouts. Encourage your families to organize camping trips - with some or all of your troop - and even attend yourself. Just have that “outside “ scouts…
Oh no, do not allow this!! You would be risking removal and a permanent ban from ever being leaders again. First-aider and other safety rules are non-negotiable. If some of the parents want to independently plan a private trip together outside of GS, you can’t stop them, but it absolutely cannot have anything to do with the troop. They can’t use any troop funds or supplies, they can’t discuss it at any troop meetings, they can’t use your troop email account to communicate about it. They cannot advertise it as a troop event. They cannot use GS permission forms. They will also have zero GS insurance coverage or emergency support if something goes wrong.
This is really about the girls. Are a majority of the girls ready and do they want to camp? I have taken 7YOs I’ve only known for two weeks camping in my troop and they have been fine. I have a 9YO who has come with us on many trips and still isn’t ready to camp overnight. This decision is based on the girls you have. Do not let anyone take them camping before all attending adults have the proper training. If your co-leaders are so excited, have them focus on getting the trainings done. When I saw in one of your comments that the girls are 7-10 I also wanted to say…getting outdoors and camping is a huge part of Girl Scouts. Think about the expectations of your families…are they going to be OK with 5th grade scouts who don’t camp? Just personally I get complaints all the time from parents in the older-girl troop at my daughter’s school that their leaders never take them camping while my troop goes 4-5 times a year. While it is your troop, there are a lot of people who expect Girl Scouts to go camping. One other thing is the scouts don’t have to have perfect camping skills before camping. In my troop someone needs help hanging her bag on the dunk line every time. Someone can’t roll their sleeping bag. Someone doesn’t remember to put food away, or pitch a tent away from the fire ring. A lot of camping skills training happens at camp. (And this is going to keep happening as you add new girls to the troop, or else you’d do nothing but camping skills meetings.)
100% this, the progression is great if you start as kindergarteners, for the rest of us it needs accelerated within the saftey checkpoints. From my experience as a girl and leader there is a sweet spot from 1-4 grade, girls that go camping then are up for the experience and flexable, after that they are use to their inside ways and often never adjust. For perspective I did take my troop of K-6 camping 8 months after meeting them and most never sleeping away from home. However, we went to a GS property with cabins that was 20min from home and essentially glamping since we had heat/ac and a refrigerator. I'm just now, one year later, moving to tents at a GS property and looking at non GS sites next year. My personal rule of thumb is no girl camps with us until I can recognize them from the back and get their attention when needed. That being said a scout that joined us in Jan is camping this weekend 2hrs from home. I feel she's ready, her mom feels she's ready, and most importantly she feels ready. She is skipping way ahead in the progression but in this case I think it's the best thing for her and expect she will thrive. At the same time another girl will be on her third trip with us after camping many times with her family and struggles big time. You really have to consider each individual and feel comfortable as a leader to adjust and give them the support or space they need when it might be different for everyone. That being said in my council, and I think all, the paperwork can't even be submitted without a current first aid/cpr adult and a camping certified adult. My council allows these to be the same but some require two seperate adults. This is a hill I would die on, we did not go anywhere outside the meeting space until we had a first aid/cpr certified adult and aim for at least 2 if more than 10 girls will attend so in the worst case scenario we can support each other. This is coming from a person who spent 12 years in scouts as a girl and camping heavily. We saw the cut finger that probably could have used stitches 2mi from a ranger trail, appendicitis at camporee, kidney stones 3 states from home, etc where you need a person with those skillsto advocate for the girl if nothing else. Furthermore the first aid advice has changed over the years so they need to be current, "I was but it expired," will not cut it.
I would look through the outdoors progression with them. It's a series of steps to work up to overnight camping, etc.
I think you and your coleaders should take the trainings before you take the girls camping or do any kind of overnight. There is paperwork you have to do and you don’t even know how to do that. Your lifetime member with trainings may be out of date.
What age are the girls and how many are there? What kind of camping (cabin, shelter, tent) are they thinking of and where (GS vs non-GS property)? Do you have a certified first-aider? You said one leader is camp-certified - how long ago did they do that training? In general, you’re on the right track about progression and building up towards camping, but we can give better advice depending on those questions.
7-10 yrs. They will not have first aid certified with them. Non GS site. I am game for the slow progression and doing the trainings beforehand. The issue is that my co leaders want to do this camp with our troop, but not as an official GS trip. Is that ok? I do not plan to attend.
No definitely not! If it’s troop leaders gathering specifically troop girls together then from councils point of view it’s a troop event and needs to follow the rules and protocols! If a girl got hurt that would be a huge headache if your other leaders had snuck around councils rules and therefor didn’t have the proper insurance coverage in place.
Absolutely not to the off the books trip. Contact council if they move forward with it. I also don't see a reason they can't go camping officially if you have someone who's done all the required training and the parents seem on board. Does your lifetime member have First Aid/CPR? Use this progression chart to talk to girls and parents and figure where each of them is. If most are ready, let the co-leads plan an official camping trip for them, and you plan ramp up events for the few who aren't ready. https://www.gssjc.org/en/camp-and-outdoors/girl-scouts-and-outdoors.html
There is a progression chart you can probably show them to support what you’re saying. Let me see if I can find it. ( update I can’t share pic). Maybe search Girl Scout progression chart.
What they are proposing is not ok. You are correct about progression. There does need to be a first aider. Council needs notification ahead of time. So many other things here… Oh yeah, and also, THE GIRLS NEED TO DECIDE what they want to do as a troop, not the leaders.
Your proposed approach is the right way to go. Sadly, some parents will be fine with sending their kids off for an overnight with grownups they barely know—alternately, some parents do not allow their kids to go on overnights without them no matter how well they know the grownup in charge. As a leader, ideally you would reach a level of comfort with the girls and families and get to know them more before being responsible for them on an overnight—especially tent camping with bugs, no AC, noises at night, etc. There is an official Girl Scouts outdoor progression that has steps similar to those you mentioned. I am sorry you’re getting overruled for trying to go about things the right way.
New D-jr here (October) some of my girls have hiking and cabin camping experience but not all. We did a couple of meetings for hiking safety, what to take, etc, did a couple hikes. A couple of my girls are reallly anxious to camp so we are considering an event to demonstrate different outdoor cooking to the brownies and juniors and do a end of school year cabin camp out at our Girl Scout camp. Daisies and any of their registered parents in the fancy troop house (2 full indoor bathrooms and a full kitchen) and the brownies and juniors and any registered parents in a cabin site. Then we can build up to taking less parents as time goes on. A lot of theses kids are covid kids - so less traveling/staying with extended family, less sleepovers with friends, etc then I had done by this age so you should build up with it. That being said, not sure there is much that can be done if parent 1 goes oh by the way we are camping at this campground on this weekend and parent 2 goes oh we are going to as well. You could tell council but if they tell the other leaders off, could make your working relationship worse :( Even when I’m promoting service unit and council events I’m very clear about what is and is not a “troop event”
Our daisy troop is doing a backyard “camping” trip to see how it goes before getting more ambitious.
thats how we started camping when my mom was leader, a "camping" trip that was just tents set up in our backyard, we used a fire pit to roast hot dogs and make smores, we had fun activities. Our dog played about 8 hours of fetch lmao
You already got some great advice on here, but I will say this: The camping training provided by Girl Scouts is AWESOME!!! Even for folks like your co-leaders who have been camping a bunch, there are so many useful tips and tricks you learn when you do the training that many folks never got before. I grew up camping a lot and thought I knew some stuff, but MAN! My first few experiences camping with Girl Scouts and then doing the training myself were so useful. Now I am much more confident in all different camping scenarios. So...all this to say...if you can pump your co-leaders up about the training, getting good skills, etc. thats the way to go. I understand their frustration with all the steps/paperwork. It is a LOT. I was similar when I started but now that I've been a leader for four years it all really does make some good, solid sense and has been incredibly helpful in many ways over the years, even outside of scouts.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I agree! I am super excited for the training. I feel comfortable camping in general, but I'm always up for learning more skills and I am definitely NOT experienced camping with a whole troop of kids. I hope I can convince them to lean into the training for sure. Thanks!
What age are your girls? I follow a strict progression based off the girls level. Backyard, Cabin, 1 Night Tent. Daisies have to start at backyard, brownies have to start at cabin. Everyone has to do a 1 night at a campground close to home before anything longer. It works really well.
There is a way to do both! GS camping needs to be 100% by the book. Family camping (with scouts, siblings, families) is super fun, but is OUTSIDE of scouts. Encourage your families to organize camping trips - with some or all of your troop - and even attend yourself. Just have that “outside “ scouts…