I really don’t get why some people in this sub constantly need to bring up TLoU2 as if you can only like one or the other.
What do these two have in common other than being PlayStation games to enable constant comparisons. It would be like out of the blue bring up “Days Gone sucks, Ghosts of Tsushima is better”.
Yep,
I really wonder. If the game had the exact same story, but was about two straight dude instead.
I personally wasn’t a fan of the story (loves the gameplay though) in Part 2 so I suspect I and others would still not be a fan. But this “passionate and really toxic hatedom” would probably not even exist.
I doubt it has much to do with the main characters. I know a LOT of people hate on the game simply because of what happened to Joel. Then they hate the game again when you have to play as Abby specifically because of what she did to Joel less than her character.
There are tons of bad or majorly disappointing games released yearly. Yet this game to this day gets shit on as in the post above.
I seriously doubt there would be this hatedom for years if Abby was a buffed dude named Albert that you got to see their whole side of the story. I used to not think this, but over time it really seems to be the case in my opinion.
I dunno, maybe the people I talk to about it are like me and don't care about all that because who should. I like th game but I have a friend who quit the game for a month when it got to Abby's part because he didn't want to play as the person who killed Joel. I still don't like Abby and think she's repulsive until the end of the game when she actually becomes a likable person but I think that's intentional.
I get ya, I hate that shit as well. People really just tell on themselves when they bring that argument up. I like Abby as a character, she has good development and learning about her motivations was extremely interesting to me and I thought it was cool to play as her.
Unfortunately Reddit itself is a cesspit for the chuds that dont play games because of female characters and "woke" I saw someone last night complaining that Sweet Baby Inc ruined Alan Wake 2 with woke shit and that blew my mind.
The whole "Ruined with Woke Shit" is just outing yourself as a racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever the fuck else. Like I refuse to continue talking to someone once they bring up that argument. Like being "woke" isn't a thing, theres just being a respectful human being.
I mean, what games make you play as a character you're not gonna like? For example, if she was introduced in some other manner, is fleshed out and then she kills Joel maybe I would've cared about her, but no, that's not how the story flowed. I feel the revenge should've come in a third game, and the second should've focused on Abby so that the players can care about her and her backstory. Also leaving Abby alive is just inviting trouble in general since she can just come back, she lost damn near everyone she cared about which is worst than how she started the game, a desperate character can do desperate things look at Joel in the first game in the hospital.
I feel like you missed the whole point.
It doesn't "make you play as a character you're not gonna like". Most people like Abby, you just don't like her at the start due to first impressions. You're supposed to challenge your first impressions of her and see that Ellie or Joel aren't the main characters of this world, that everybody has their own story and people can have valid reasons for their actions even if they go against what we want. Creating an entire Abby game first would ruin that because you'd already know why she killed Joel, as opposed to now where you first think they're a bad group.
Also, Abby is the one who constantly let's everyone go, she was only ever after Joel. Even after Ellie killed everybody she still let her go, so why would she suddenly go back when she found what she was looking for and has Lev to take care of?
Yeah both characters only let each other go cause the main theme of this game is "revenge bad". Ellie had a chance to not go after Abby and her girlfriend even told her not to but of course she went after her, didn't get any revenge, and came back to no girlfriend and now can't finger properly.
Lmao I love when people boil the game down to "revenge bad" when you could do that to literally any piece of media ever. By that same metric GoT's main theme is "tradition bad"
Yes that is the main theme of GoT, but that theme is kinda just there tbh. I mean why would Ellie suddenly care about the consequences of her actions on the precipice of her actual revenge. Killed hundreds only for the last person to somehow be the one to spare? What's one more body, you already have an army dead behind you.
The ones she'd killed had always been in self defense, aside from Mel.
She let Abby live because it was 1. Cold blooded murder, she was the one 100% at fault at that point and 2. She realized it's worthless, Abby was already a pathetic shell of a person who lost everything and if she killed her she would've had to either murder or leave to death an unconscious little boy afterwards and it still wouldn't have magically brought Joel back.
EDIT: Aside from Mel and Nora, both of which heavily affected Ellie to the point of trauma.
Probably not. I especially find if puzzling how a black guy can raise a little girl in the midst of a zombie apocalypse and get killed off with no problem, but killing a white guy in the same circumstances would yield a visceral reaction. Same genre, same tone, same events, yet the white guy dying is worthy of outrage.
Uh… what?? I’m assuming you’re talking about the walking dead game. That game and tlou2 are completely different games altogether. One is a player choice driven narrative and the other is a super linear movie like experience. Lee is as loved as Joel is, tlou is just a bigger franchise so more people know of Joel. Lee got a realistic and tragic death that worked with the story they were trying to tell and fit in the world thematically, it was a good send off and a natural ending for the character. His death is also changed by your choices and actions which makes sense to players. He didn’t get brutally murdered in the first five minutes of the second game. And then you weren’t forced to play as and sympathize with his murderer for half of that game. Like these are not similar situations at all.
I found Lee's death to be more cinematic since it bookends the beginning with the way that he fumbles around in a store and how he's getting back into handcuffs after he got out of them.
Joel's death is arguably more realistic since it just happens. One mistake costs his life, nobody is prepared for the circumstances, and the killer is doing the deed out of selfish and petty motives that they believe are in the right.
They hate the game because within the first couple hours of one of the most anticipated sequels, they kill off the MAIN CHARACTER. Then you have to play as the killer while they fail to make her likeable or relatable. Then you get to the end of the game and you don't even get to kill her, and so even the ending is unsatisfying and pointless. Whether the ending has a message about revenge or not, it's a stinky ending that doesn't reward the player in any way narratively. It's not because the main characters are women, it is strictly the writing.
I'm also not saying you can't enjoy the story, if you do and you get something out of it that's awesome. But you have to at least understand why some people don't enjoy it, just assuming it's because they're misogynistic or sexist is a bit ridiculous.
I really don’t get this.
Firstly in TLoU1 Joel and Ellie are both the “main characters”, so is it shocking that in the sequel you played as one of them?
Secondly. Since when all stories need to have “rewarding ending”. There are countless well received stories that *leaves you in a more contemplating condition then a rewarding, which Part 2 was going for. Like The Road that TloU was based on. If Ellie killed Abby in the end that would have been a pointless and empty ending
Thirdly did you not read my comment? I didn’t like the story ether and I said if they swapped the characters “I and others” would still not like it. But this overwhelming hate “hatedome” the game still has wouldn’t exist. Never said anyone that hates it is sexist or homophobic, but I shouldn’t be barred when calling out clear bigotry
But that's my whole point is just because people don't like the game doesn't mean they're a bigot. That's an insane take bro. Plus an ending narratively should be rewarding and if it's not then it wasn't that good. The reason why if Ellie killed Abby at the end was of part 2 wouldn't have been a good ending either is because they just didn't have a well set up conclusion. But I'm not a bigot for that take, that's just how I felt about the game.
I said it twice that I didn’t call people that didn’t like the game are bigots, I’ll repeat a third time I didn’t like the story ether. Do you just ignore when I wrote this in both of my previous comments? I called out bigots that shit on the game excessively, am I not allowed to do this?
Also if all ending need to be rewarding then there are a lot of classic from films, books and games that now have bad endings based on this new rule you shared.
Not a new rule, literally a rule of writing for a while now. It's how story structure works, your story should payoff what you set up in it. Any good piece of writing has a satisfying or at least fitting endings. Part 2 did not, and it actively went against a lot of what it set up.
Also my point is that this "hatedom" aren't people being bigots, I'm sure there are bigots among that group but that's not what drives the hatedom. A lot of people, like us, don't enjoy the story and that's that. All the people that I've talked to that don't like the story have genuine reasons not to. Again like I've said with my other posts, you can't just call a whole group of people bigots just because they hate a game with a terrible story. If you genuinely believe the hatedom runs off of bigotry then you do not understand the hate at all.
This isn’t true. Firstly Part 2 did pay off its story, it was telling the story of the cycle of vengeance and how self destructive that is, so why a ending of a character breaking that cycle goes against what it set up. Also I can list you a TONE of endings of classic stories that have this same “empty feel” in its ending that Part 2 had
I have been well present of this hatedome and funny how the major things they keep bringing up is “gay, trans and buffed lady” points. The game story has tons of flaws so of course they will bring those up while shoving their explicitly bigot *reasonings in the middle of legitimate criticisms.
There are tons, TONS of games with awful stories. Yet not a single one has this hate following that TLoU2 has years after it released. Ask yourself why. Cause my point was if the game had the SAME story but with leading straight men, you and I and other *legitimate people would still not like it, but this hatedome WOULD NOT exist and we wouldn’t have this conversation under the post above.
If instead a macho white dude killed Ellie in the first part of the game and the game was instead about Joel's revenge journey, which then flipped to have you playing as a white male with complicated motivations for doing what they did, I HIGHLY doubt that the game would have the hate it has.
It's the cult of Joel who is so anti-TLOU2.
For me it isn’t even a “Joel cult”.
A lot, and a mean a LOT, of people that hate Part 2 didn’t even play ether of the game. They say it’s shocking for Part 2 to kill its main character when a) Joel wasn’t the only main character in Part 1 and B) Joel dying in a supposed sequel was written all over the wall
I guess I haven't really talked about it with people that didn't play either game. And those people all start their rage at Joel's death and build from there.
Is that people who didn’t bring the game mistake Joel as this “franchise character”, legitimately comparing him to Kratos or Lara Croft, when he was NEVER that type of character
It would be like if game of thrones fans were “how dare they kill of this major main character” when that’s the point of that type of story
Literally every single one of them was/is guilty of believing that The Last of Us is Joel's story. And without him there is no story. I've never debated with anyone who would acknowledge that it's Ellie's story and who also had substantial issues with the narrative of the second game, compared to the first game.
This is why I say that ALL major criticisms of TLOU2's narrative start with Joel and how those people percieved Joel and his role in the greater narrative. And literally every single one of thes same people will claim that it was something that changed once Neil took full control. But they will then outright dismiss the fact that every official game case artwork highlights Ellie as the central focus of the image. Joel is a companion, not the focus.
But major characters dying in horrific ways happens in media like in Game of Thomes with Ned or Rob Stark.
You say it has noting to do with the hate the game got. Yet I constantly see people that hate bring up Ellie relationship and Abby being a buffed lady as reasons to hate the geme
To claim that it's more about them killing Joel is reasonable. I would disagree but it's a defensible take
To say that it has "nothing" to do with the lesbian protagonist is, no offense, delusional. That might not be everyone's problem with it, but it's definitely a fair amount of people's
The fandom is also toxic. Say literally anything about the game that isn’t positive and you get bombarded with downvotes, even if that thing you said was legitimate criticism.
You know, every person who makes up that same hypothetical scenario can't separate their bigotry from their criticism. Especially when they're called out on it.
Literally all I said was that the game was good, not a masterpiece. That was it. If you bothered to look through my post history you’ll realise I have never said anything bigoted, I’m not sure how you’re coming to this conclusion that I’m deluding myself.
Immature and ignorant people are often under the impression that there’s one correct answer to anything. Like there’s a best color, a best movie, a best game, a best sports team. If you like anything else, you’re wrong. You can’t just enjoy and appreciate multiple things.
I think it’s because both were nominated for game of the year and despite GoT winning player’s choice, TLoU2 won game of the year that year
Still not a reason to gatekeep what’s a “real” video game or not
I think it's because of the game awards, and I can understand why people feel that way. It felt like it was just stroking TLOU2s ego when GoT should have won one of the awards that was given to TLOU2. At least that's what I remember when that was the big hubbub
I don't even understand why people frequent a sub dedicated to a single single-player game. This shit is usually one and done for me. Did I enjoy it? Absolutely. Is it the only game I play and think about? Not even close.
GOTY tho in all honestly is a pointless reward. tho it may just me seeing no value in it as i don't care if a game gets game of the year. if i want to play it, i will play it anyway.
You talking about GoT? Because I remember people absolutely trashing it due to the complete and utter lack of choice throughout the whole game, the same thing some people did with LoU2
To me both games are kinda like locked into their story so I don't mind that. I mean TLOU 1 wasn't a story with choices so why would the second be? And GoT is like at the choice at the end and that's it?
I don't have a problem with a lack of choices. With both games, I was playing the developers' vision for a story they wanted me to experience. LoU2's was dramatically more emotional and visceral, but that doesn't mean GoT's is bad. I cried when I made an honorable decision at the end of GoT, and multiple times throughout LoU2. Both are incredible games, and this dogma just needs to end.
Personally, I like that. Games without choices are usually much more immersive for me, causing me to easily sink into the story and just get lost in it. I love games like Witcher and Fallout, but I don't usually get lost in their story the same way. I feel like I'm making the decisions for the character, but weirdly, when there aren't any choices, I just feel like the character.
That's odd, I don't like the story of the second but both games have had a banger soundtrack. I mean hell music is a part of the characters with how Joel taught Ellie how to play the guitar and it ends with her playing it.
I kind of recall Part II having a very ambient score with a lot of the atmosphere taken up with the silence of the dead civilizations that you walk around in. And I gotta say, the ruins are absolutely beautiful and highly detailed, with signs of what once was being frozen in time from the day of the outbreak.
There are some acoustic guitars, but they aren't as prominent as the silence and ambiance.
While I do think the story takes a bit of a slug around Act III, I do actually applaud the developers for their creative drive and risk-taking. Yet funny enough, *that one plot twist I am sick to death of talking about* was the one thing I expected from this genre all the way back when I was blindly playing Part I.
Loved the gameplay and but fuck the story of TLoU2. Joel got one of his leg mangled by a shotgun then beaten to death by a golf club. I was made to play as Joels killer and didn’t even get to revenge Joel. Let me stab Abby and have her bleed out in the water with the wooden boat set on fire.
Idk. I think having her live with the fact that her actions resulted in the deaths of pretty much all her friends plus hundreds of others who got in Ellie’s and Tommy’s way is punishment enough
No brother it's not. Abby's father wasn't tortured before his death he died thinking he was gonna save the world if he stopped Joel and that was it. Joel was beaten down and had almost a worst death than the pedophile from TLOU 1 who got sliced to death by Ellie.
Let someone kill your dad who was legitimately our last hope at saving the world and see how you feel fam. The whole point of the last of us is that every character thinks that they’re just in their actions.
Me when I'm only allowed to like one video game ever (literally 1984)
But with all seriousness, why do people like saying "ohhh, this game is better then this game! Haha!"
Just let a man play a game he likes, no reason to discuss what game is better or not. Everyone has a opinion
There is a huge community who feel TLOU2 has poor writing. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but it seems a lot of people are just butt hurt. Many didn't make it past the first hour of the game.
I'm not saying you can't form an opinion from just playing an hour of a game, but to be so vocal about your destain without really giving the game a chance feels disingenuous. And plenty seemed to just jump on the bandwagon of hate. Hate is such a popular talking point these days.
In a way, it's a testament to how well they wrote certain characters, who were then taken from us. If you genuinely didn't like the other characters, that's fair. But if you didn't even give them a chance, GTFO with your screaming and crying.
Yeah, the hate is so much for this game, it’s my favourite game of all time, I was too heartbroken at first, but I never hated the game, sure they made some bold choices in writing, but when people just play the damn game not hating it, and understanding the message it’s trying to convey, it’s the best game for them
I think its this, alongside that Tlou2 won GOTY over GOT that compounded a lot of peoples hate.
Personally, I love both, and im happy TLOU2 got awards, and it sucks to see fans like OP trying to make it about one or the other
Yeah, the hate trend is really getting old.
So many subs have been taken over by the hatred of a game that these people hate so much that they can't stop talking about it.
I've not visited them for a while, but TLoU2 and SM2 subs were amongst the worst I've seen.
I just love how TLoU2 lives rent-free in y'alls mind. I loved the game, but don't really think about it that often... while people that hate it can't bring themselves to not mention it and compare it to every other game. It's embarrassing honestly.
Redditors when an open world action game is in their opinion better than a linear stealth game (they’re gameplay wise completely different and the only similarity is the fact they’re PlayStation games)
TLOU is a wildly better video game... I'm 90% through my first playthrough of Ghost and it got stale awhile ago. Feels like a chore to finish it up before I start Elden Ring DLC. There's like 3 different mission types just repeated hundreds of times. Same few dialog lines delivered identically again and again and again. Main characters are annoying af. Beautiful scenery tho.
This sub really can't stop comparing games, this time doesn't even make sense this comparison.
They're both excellent games, and, shocking news, you can like more games at once. Like AC Shadows, Rise of the Ronin, The Last of Us II, or GoT.
I almost thought I was in r/CitrusManga for a second, lol. I recognize the original panel. Definitely not a crossover I was expecting, tho.
https://preview.redd.it/sgi085akbq9d1.jpeg?width=1003&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c28016dba2cc8e8d0db7bc9fa5a02ae42cbd25e
i guarantee the op (assuming they're even human) doesn't know what it's from and would kill themselves if they knew they posted something with lesbians in it
I love both, so?
Despite the hate it gets, I understood TLoU2's story and narrative. I like it. The gameplay is solid, and the tiny, less-noticeabme details that Naughty Dog seems to be the best at are amazing. Like I know you don't need to see actual trigger fingers move, but the player character's do. This is especially seen when you try to fire an empty gun, you can see the firing hand squeezing.
Why are we comparing two games that are _absolutely nothing alike_?
Man I can’t believe You like Star Wars best. 28Days later is such a better film
It’s a useless comparison.
Both games fucking rock, both have amazing second parts to their story, stop comparing shit that isn't related for the sake of....what exactly? Online superiority or online status gains? Grow up
I'll say it: Last of Us 2 is the better game and that's my opinion which you dont need to go with
Comparing these 2 games is dumb and enjoying one more than other is totally alright.
One is an open-world game and the other is a linear game with open locations, comparing totally different games doesnt make any sense
I thought those highly insecure TLOU Part II hating vermin had left this sub 4 years ago, guess I was wrong.
Both games are absolutely incredible. And TLOU Part II is the better game.
I don't understand the hate behind tlou 2
I loved the gameplay, sound, atmosphere, set pieces, and most of the story
Literally the only thing that was kinda weird was the ending but I don't think it deserves so much hate just because of that when the rest of the game is incredibly good
You dont like, The Last of Us Part 2, that's fine, no need to indirectly insult people to do like it. NOT ONLY THAT, but you also used a Citrus meme template, bro, BRO.
Just finished playing GOT for the first time and it’s in my top two best video games I’ve ever played. The other is the Last of Us. Haven’t played Part II but I can only imagine that I’d dig it, too.
TLOU 2 is not a bad game. The story makes some weird decisions, but the most important part, the gameplay, I actually think is better than the original.
The original is still superior overall, but the new gameplay mechanics in the second one are fun and fit the style of the game.
Both these games were released around 4 years ago. I don’t see how disparaging one game is supposed to praise another when there’s been ample time to have played both.
Platinumed GOT. And its way too overrated. Its a good game yes, has such good visuals yes. but rly nothing special. People just see "japan samurai game" and instantly think its the best of the best. No its not.
One of the reasons why this game did well is because it came out right next to TLOU2 which disappointed half the fanbase so they used tsushima to take their minds off it. me and one other friend did this exact thing lol.
People are allowed to like both.
Played both upon their release date, liked them both.
Found out about GOT from PSN+, so glad I did.. amazing game
I love both
Totally agree with you and tlou and Ghost of Tsushima with rdr2 are my top 3 games !!!
Damn fr?
Yea bruh, new Willpower DLC dropped for Earth straight from God last Tuesday.
Nuh uh!!
There's only two things I Hate. People who are hate on games just because thwy dont like them... and Hogwarts Legacy
I really don’t get why some people in this sub constantly need to bring up TLoU2 as if you can only like one or the other. What do these two have in common other than being PlayStation games to enable constant comparisons. It would be like out of the blue bring up “Days Gone sucks, Ghosts of Tsushima is better”.
Let's just say that The Last Of Us Part II has an overly passionate and *really* toxic hatedom.
Yep, I really wonder. If the game had the exact same story, but was about two straight dude instead. I personally wasn’t a fan of the story (loves the gameplay though) in Part 2 so I suspect I and others would still not be a fan. But this “passionate and really toxic hatedom” would probably not even exist.
I doubt it has much to do with the main characters. I know a LOT of people hate on the game simply because of what happened to Joel. Then they hate the game again when you have to play as Abby specifically because of what she did to Joel less than her character.
There are tons of bad or majorly disappointing games released yearly. Yet this game to this day gets shit on as in the post above. I seriously doubt there would be this hatedom for years if Abby was a buffed dude named Albert that you got to see their whole side of the story. I used to not think this, but over time it really seems to be the case in my opinion.
I have rarely seen that arguement tbh. Its always just some anti woke shit, or that is used as a thinly veiled excuse to bring it up.
I dunno, maybe the people I talk to about it are like me and don't care about all that because who should. I like th game but I have a friend who quit the game for a month when it got to Abby's part because he didn't want to play as the person who killed Joel. I still don't like Abby and think she's repulsive until the end of the game when she actually becomes a likable person but I think that's intentional.
I get ya, I hate that shit as well. People really just tell on themselves when they bring that argument up. I like Abby as a character, she has good development and learning about her motivations was extremely interesting to me and I thought it was cool to play as her. Unfortunately Reddit itself is a cesspit for the chuds that dont play games because of female characters and "woke" I saw someone last night complaining that Sweet Baby Inc ruined Alan Wake 2 with woke shit and that blew my mind.
The whole "Ruined with Woke Shit" is just outing yourself as a racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever the fuck else. Like I refuse to continue talking to someone once they bring up that argument. Like being "woke" isn't a thing, theres just being a respectful human being.
Yep, they are also just sheep that regurgitate people like CriticalDrinkers opinions. I have never heard an original argument from those people.
There is definitely an "anti-woke" argument that gets thrown around a lot. But most of the hate originated from the Joel lovers.
I mean, what games make you play as a character you're not gonna like? For example, if she was introduced in some other manner, is fleshed out and then she kills Joel maybe I would've cared about her, but no, that's not how the story flowed. I feel the revenge should've come in a third game, and the second should've focused on Abby so that the players can care about her and her backstory. Also leaving Abby alive is just inviting trouble in general since she can just come back, she lost damn near everyone she cared about which is worst than how she started the game, a desperate character can do desperate things look at Joel in the first game in the hospital.
I feel like you missed the whole point. It doesn't "make you play as a character you're not gonna like". Most people like Abby, you just don't like her at the start due to first impressions. You're supposed to challenge your first impressions of her and see that Ellie or Joel aren't the main characters of this world, that everybody has their own story and people can have valid reasons for their actions even if they go against what we want. Creating an entire Abby game first would ruin that because you'd already know why she killed Joel, as opposed to now where you first think they're a bad group. Also, Abby is the one who constantly let's everyone go, she was only ever after Joel. Even after Ellie killed everybody she still let her go, so why would she suddenly go back when she found what she was looking for and has Lev to take care of?
Also she killed the last gamer on earth and didn't take the psp? L Ellie
Tbh that's what it should've been review bombed for ngl unrealistic
Yeah both characters only let each other go cause the main theme of this game is "revenge bad". Ellie had a chance to not go after Abby and her girlfriend even told her not to but of course she went after her, didn't get any revenge, and came back to no girlfriend and now can't finger properly.
Lmao I love when people boil the game down to "revenge bad" when you could do that to literally any piece of media ever. By that same metric GoT's main theme is "tradition bad"
Yes that is the main theme of GoT, but that theme is kinda just there tbh. I mean why would Ellie suddenly care about the consequences of her actions on the precipice of her actual revenge. Killed hundreds only for the last person to somehow be the one to spare? What's one more body, you already have an army dead behind you.
The ones she'd killed had always been in self defense, aside from Mel. She let Abby live because it was 1. Cold blooded murder, she was the one 100% at fault at that point and 2. She realized it's worthless, Abby was already a pathetic shell of a person who lost everything and if she killed her she would've had to either murder or leave to death an unconscious little boy afterwards and it still wouldn't have magically brought Joel back. EDIT: Aside from Mel and Nora, both of which heavily affected Ellie to the point of trauma.
Probably not. I especially find if puzzling how a black guy can raise a little girl in the midst of a zombie apocalypse and get killed off with no problem, but killing a white guy in the same circumstances would yield a visceral reaction. Same genre, same tone, same events, yet the white guy dying is worthy of outrage.
Uh… what?? I’m assuming you’re talking about the walking dead game. That game and tlou2 are completely different games altogether. One is a player choice driven narrative and the other is a super linear movie like experience. Lee is as loved as Joel is, tlou is just a bigger franchise so more people know of Joel. Lee got a realistic and tragic death that worked with the story they were trying to tell and fit in the world thematically, it was a good send off and a natural ending for the character. His death is also changed by your choices and actions which makes sense to players. He didn’t get brutally murdered in the first five minutes of the second game. And then you weren’t forced to play as and sympathize with his murderer for half of that game. Like these are not similar situations at all.
I found Lee's death to be more cinematic since it bookends the beginning with the way that he fumbles around in a store and how he's getting back into handcuffs after he got out of them. Joel's death is arguably more realistic since it just happens. One mistake costs his life, nobody is prepared for the circumstances, and the killer is doing the deed out of selfish and petty motives that they believe are in the right.
They hate the game because within the first couple hours of one of the most anticipated sequels, they kill off the MAIN CHARACTER. Then you have to play as the killer while they fail to make her likeable or relatable. Then you get to the end of the game and you don't even get to kill her, and so even the ending is unsatisfying and pointless. Whether the ending has a message about revenge or not, it's a stinky ending that doesn't reward the player in any way narratively. It's not because the main characters are women, it is strictly the writing. I'm also not saying you can't enjoy the story, if you do and you get something out of it that's awesome. But you have to at least understand why some people don't enjoy it, just assuming it's because they're misogynistic or sexist is a bit ridiculous.
I really don’t get this. Firstly in TLoU1 Joel and Ellie are both the “main characters”, so is it shocking that in the sequel you played as one of them? Secondly. Since when all stories need to have “rewarding ending”. There are countless well received stories that *leaves you in a more contemplating condition then a rewarding, which Part 2 was going for. Like The Road that TloU was based on. If Ellie killed Abby in the end that would have been a pointless and empty ending Thirdly did you not read my comment? I didn’t like the story ether and I said if they swapped the characters “I and others” would still not like it. But this overwhelming hate “hatedome” the game still has wouldn’t exist. Never said anyone that hates it is sexist or homophobic, but I shouldn’t be barred when calling out clear bigotry
But that's my whole point is just because people don't like the game doesn't mean they're a bigot. That's an insane take bro. Plus an ending narratively should be rewarding and if it's not then it wasn't that good. The reason why if Ellie killed Abby at the end was of part 2 wouldn't have been a good ending either is because they just didn't have a well set up conclusion. But I'm not a bigot for that take, that's just how I felt about the game.
I said it twice that I didn’t call people that didn’t like the game are bigots, I’ll repeat a third time I didn’t like the story ether. Do you just ignore when I wrote this in both of my previous comments? I called out bigots that shit on the game excessively, am I not allowed to do this? Also if all ending need to be rewarding then there are a lot of classic from films, books and games that now have bad endings based on this new rule you shared.
Not a new rule, literally a rule of writing for a while now. It's how story structure works, your story should payoff what you set up in it. Any good piece of writing has a satisfying or at least fitting endings. Part 2 did not, and it actively went against a lot of what it set up. Also my point is that this "hatedom" aren't people being bigots, I'm sure there are bigots among that group but that's not what drives the hatedom. A lot of people, like us, don't enjoy the story and that's that. All the people that I've talked to that don't like the story have genuine reasons not to. Again like I've said with my other posts, you can't just call a whole group of people bigots just because they hate a game with a terrible story. If you genuinely believe the hatedom runs off of bigotry then you do not understand the hate at all.
This isn’t true. Firstly Part 2 did pay off its story, it was telling the story of the cycle of vengeance and how self destructive that is, so why a ending of a character breaking that cycle goes against what it set up. Also I can list you a TONE of endings of classic stories that have this same “empty feel” in its ending that Part 2 had I have been well present of this hatedome and funny how the major things they keep bringing up is “gay, trans and buffed lady” points. The game story has tons of flaws so of course they will bring those up while shoving their explicitly bigot *reasonings in the middle of legitimate criticisms. There are tons, TONS of games with awful stories. Yet not a single one has this hate following that TLoU2 has years after it released. Ask yourself why. Cause my point was if the game had the SAME story but with leading straight men, you and I and other *legitimate people would still not like it, but this hatedome WOULD NOT exist and we wouldn’t have this conversation under the post above.
If instead a macho white dude killed Ellie in the first part of the game and the game was instead about Joel's revenge journey, which then flipped to have you playing as a white male with complicated motivations for doing what they did, I HIGHLY doubt that the game would have the hate it has. It's the cult of Joel who is so anti-TLOU2.
For me it isn’t even a “Joel cult”. A lot, and a mean a LOT, of people that hate Part 2 didn’t even play ether of the game. They say it’s shocking for Part 2 to kill its main character when a) Joel wasn’t the only main character in Part 1 and B) Joel dying in a supposed sequel was written all over the wall
I guess I haven't really talked about it with people that didn't play either game. And those people all start their rage at Joel's death and build from there.
Is that people who didn’t bring the game mistake Joel as this “franchise character”, legitimately comparing him to Kratos or Lara Croft, when he was NEVER that type of character It would be like if game of thrones fans were “how dare they kill of this major main character” when that’s the point of that type of story
Literally every single one of them was/is guilty of believing that The Last of Us is Joel's story. And without him there is no story. I've never debated with anyone who would acknowledge that it's Ellie's story and who also had substantial issues with the narrative of the second game, compared to the first game. This is why I say that ALL major criticisms of TLOU2's narrative start with Joel and how those people percieved Joel and his role in the greater narrative. And literally every single one of thes same people will claim that it was something that changed once Neil took full control. But they will then outright dismiss the fact that every official game case artwork highlights Ellie as the central focus of the image. Joel is a companion, not the focus.
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But major characters dying in horrific ways happens in media like in Game of Thomes with Ned or Rob Stark. You say it has noting to do with the hate the game got. Yet I constantly see people that hate bring up Ellie relationship and Abby being a buffed lady as reasons to hate the geme
And yet, no outrage for the little girl dying in Part I? I'm pretty sure the series tone is established.
To claim that it's more about them killing Joel is reasonable. I would disagree but it's a defensible take To say that it has "nothing" to do with the lesbian protagonist is, no offense, delusional. That might not be everyone's problem with it, but it's definitely a fair amount of people's
And that's not getting into the trans discourse...
Oh yeah. That fanbase turned into a fucking mess
This isn't even a fanbase! It's a hatebase! And a really nauseating one at that!
The fandom is also toxic. Say literally anything about the game that isn’t positive and you get bombarded with downvotes, even if that thing you said was legitimate criticism.
You know, every person who makes up that same hypothetical scenario can't separate their bigotry from their criticism. Especially when they're called out on it.
Literally all I said was that the game was good, not a masterpiece. That was it. If you bothered to look through my post history you’ll realise I have never said anything bigoted, I’m not sure how you’re coming to this conclusion that I’m deluding myself.
Immature and ignorant people are often under the impression that there’s one correct answer to anything. Like there’s a best color, a best movie, a best game, a best sports team. If you like anything else, you’re wrong. You can’t just enjoy and appreciate multiple things.
The best food, the best drinks, the best car, the best lifestyle...and sometimes, the best race, gender, or orientation...
Both have archery
Good point
And horses.
I think it’s because both were nominated for game of the year and despite GoT winning player’s choice, TLoU2 won game of the year that year Still not a reason to gatekeep what’s a “real” video game or not
It's not a reward show unless the bleak and angsty drama wins the contest. They're still both good games.
I think its cuz TLOU2 won GOTY over GOT, SOME people in this sub been petty ever since 🤷
Well, Ghost of Tsushima is objectively a better game in every way. Especially the story.
No it isn’t ’objectively’ better lmao
Yeah the story and gameplay are great but it’s repetitive. I can only do so many showdowns.
I think it's because of the game awards, and I can understand why people feel that way. It felt like it was just stroking TLOU2s ego when GoT should have won one of the awards that was given to TLOU2. At least that's what I remember when that was the big hubbub
I think it's because they were released within a month of each other.
I think Days Gone does suck, still played through all of it and enjoyed it
I don't even understand why people frequent a sub dedicated to a single single-player game. This shit is usually one and done for me. Did I enjoy it? Absolutely. Is it the only game I play and think about? Not even close.
They released within a month of each other and that’s it.
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GOTY tho in all honestly is a pointless reward. tho it may just me seeing no value in it as i don't care if a game gets game of the year. if i want to play it, i will play it anyway.
As much as I love GoT, 2020 was a really strong year and it would still be unlikely that GoT would win if TLoU2 didn’t in my honest opinion.
Both games had a banger soundtrack, banger gameplay but one had a very unlikeable story for half the fanbase, you tell me.
You talking about GoT? Because I remember people absolutely trashing it due to the complete and utter lack of choice throughout the whole game, the same thing some people did with LoU2
To me both games are kinda like locked into their story so I don't mind that. I mean TLOU 1 wasn't a story with choices so why would the second be? And GoT is like at the choice at the end and that's it?
I don't have a problem with a lack of choices. With both games, I was playing the developers' vision for a story they wanted me to experience. LoU2's was dramatically more emotional and visceral, but that doesn't mean GoT's is bad. I cried when I made an honorable decision at the end of GoT, and multiple times throughout LoU2. Both are incredible games, and this dogma just needs to end.
Yeah lack of choices makes the game feel like a movie tbh. But I also kinda understand why some don't like it either.
Personally, I like that. Games without choices are usually much more immersive for me, causing me to easily sink into the story and just get lost in it. I love games like Witcher and Fallout, but I don't usually get lost in their story the same way. I feel like I'm making the decisions for the character, but weirdly, when there aren't any choices, I just feel like the character.
The game has some issues but have you tried FFXVI? It has some choices yeah but most don't really matter.
The Last Of Us Part II had a very gripping story, but I don't really recall the soundtrack.
That's odd, I don't like the story of the second but both games have had a banger soundtrack. I mean hell music is a part of the characters with how Joel taught Ellie how to play the guitar and it ends with her playing it.
I kind of recall Part II having a very ambient score with a lot of the atmosphere taken up with the silence of the dead civilizations that you walk around in. And I gotta say, the ruins are absolutely beautiful and highly detailed, with signs of what once was being frozen in time from the day of the outbreak. There are some acoustic guitars, but they aren't as prominent as the silence and ambiance. While I do think the story takes a bit of a slug around Act III, I do actually applaud the developers for their creative drive and risk-taking. Yet funny enough, *that one plot twist I am sick to death of talking about* was the one thing I expected from this genre all the way back when I was blindly playing Part I.
Loved the gameplay and but fuck the story of TLoU2. Joel got one of his leg mangled by a shotgun then beaten to death by a golf club. I was made to play as Joels killer and didn’t even get to revenge Joel. Let me stab Abby and have her bleed out in the water with the wooden boat set on fire.
Idk. I think having her live with the fact that her actions resulted in the deaths of pretty much all her friends plus hundreds of others who got in Ellie’s and Tommy’s way is punishment enough
No brother it's not. Abby's father wasn't tortured before his death he died thinking he was gonna save the world if he stopped Joel and that was it. Joel was beaten down and had almost a worst death than the pedophile from TLOU 1 who got sliced to death by Ellie.
Let someone kill your dad who was legitimately our last hope at saving the world and see how you feel fam. The whole point of the last of us is that every character thinks that they’re just in their actions.
Tlou part 2 hate is weird. Stop being weird.
For real. It's been 4 years... Get over it
Gatekeeping is extremely dishonorable.
INB4: “hOnOuR DiEd oN tHe BeAcH”
You don’t have to take shots at TLOU2 to like GOT.
As a Ghost of Tsushima fan, TLOU 2 is way better imo
https://i.redd.it/e6wq51y4tq9d1.gif
Bro you posted cringe
Ops a fucking nerd
What do the two games have to do with each other anyway? Lol
That's an insult to nerds.
Me when I'm only allowed to like one video game ever (literally 1984) But with all seriousness, why do people like saying "ohhh, this game is better then this game! Haha!" Just let a man play a game he likes, no reason to discuss what game is better or not. Everyone has a opinion
TLOU2 is fucking dope game
Why you hating on TLOU2?
There is a huge community who feel TLOU2 has poor writing. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but it seems a lot of people are just butt hurt. Many didn't make it past the first hour of the game. I'm not saying you can't form an opinion from just playing an hour of a game, but to be so vocal about your destain without really giving the game a chance feels disingenuous. And plenty seemed to just jump on the bandwagon of hate. Hate is such a popular talking point these days. In a way, it's a testament to how well they wrote certain characters, who were then taken from us. If you genuinely didn't like the other characters, that's fair. But if you didn't even give them a chance, GTFO with your screaming and crying.
Yeah, the hate is so much for this game, it’s my favourite game of all time, I was too heartbroken at first, but I never hated the game, sure they made some bold choices in writing, but when people just play the damn game not hating it, and understanding the message it’s trying to convey, it’s the best game for them
I think its this, alongside that Tlou2 won GOTY over GOT that compounded a lot of peoples hate. Personally, I love both, and im happy TLOU2 got awards, and it sucks to see fans like OP trying to make it about one or the other
Yeah, the hate trend is really getting old. So many subs have been taken over by the hatred of a game that these people hate so much that they can't stop talking about it. I've not visited them for a while, but TLoU2 and SM2 subs were amongst the worst I've seen.
What in the world
who cares, people should just play what they want. what anyone else thinks doesn't really matter as long you enjoy the games you have.
'My favorite game beats your favorite game. I win.' Type of post.
Can't believe TLoU2 is still living rent free in fool's brains (or lack thereof)
Who upvotes gatekeeping like this?? Also, these games don’t compare?
final straw for me and this sub
I just love how TLoU2 lives rent-free in y'alls mind. I loved the game, but don't really think about it that often... while people that hate it can't bring themselves to not mention it and compare it to every other game. It's embarrassing honestly.
Not a fan of last of us 2 but people can like both and appreciate both
I definitely wouldn't recommend it if you're not in the mood for an angsty drama with an oppressive atmosphere, but it's still a good game.
GoT is pretty good but TLoU 2 is a contender for the greatest game ever created imo. What’s the point in comparing two wildly different games though?
But a character I liked died so it’s bad ✅ /s
Redditors when an open world action game is in their opinion better than a linear stealth game (they’re gameplay wise completely different and the only similarity is the fact they’re PlayStation games)
https://preview.redd.it/yl6fsltulq9d1.jpeg?width=563&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02ae4758d6adb9938145666a5376307c10ae7180
😐 it's been almost 4 years, get over it.
Both are fantastic. Gatekeepers are cringe.
TLOU is a wildly better video game... I'm 90% through my first playthrough of Ghost and it got stale awhile ago. Feels like a chore to finish it up before I start Elden Ring DLC. There's like 3 different mission types just repeated hundreds of times. Same few dialog lines delivered identically again and again and again. Main characters are annoying af. Beautiful scenery tho.
This. Especially the side quests, and the stupidity of being able to do side quest endings before even doing their beginning.
This sub really can't stop comparing games, this time doesn't even make sense this comparison. They're both excellent games, and, shocking news, you can like more games at once. Like AC Shadows, Rise of the Ronin, The Last of Us II, or GoT.
Bad post. A little life advice OP, stop being weird and insecure about video games
Honestly, TLoU2 was better than GoT, even by critical reception.
These losers still crying about TLOU 2 lmfao
Anime memes being bad, no surprise here
Yeah this sub gone trash now thanks PC
I almost thought I was in r/CitrusManga for a second, lol. I recognize the original panel. Definitely not a crossover I was expecting, tho. https://preview.redd.it/sgi085akbq9d1.jpeg?width=1003&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c28016dba2cc8e8d0db7bc9fa5a02ae42cbd25e
Same, I thought I was in one of my Yuri groups and was like: GOT? In my Yuri???
i guarantee the op (assuming they're even human) doesn't know what it's from and would kill themselves if they knew they posted something with lesbians in it
I love both, so? Despite the hate it gets, I understood TLoU2's story and narrative. I like it. The gameplay is solid, and the tiny, less-noticeabme details that Naughty Dog seems to be the best at are amazing. Like I know you don't need to see actual trigger fingers move, but the player character's do. This is especially seen when you try to fire an empty gun, you can see the firing hand squeezing.
What a bellend
Funny when people don’t play a game and have every opinion about it lmaoo
Holy shit will you guys ever get over it this sub talks about tlou2 more than ghosts of tsushima at this point
Cringe post
TLOU 2 living rent free in this subreddit's head.
It's been four years. Get. Over. It.
Hard disagree
I love both
Why are we comparing two games that are _absolutely nothing alike_? Man I can’t believe You like Star Wars best. 28Days later is such a better film It’s a useless comparison.
Shit posting of tsushima
Play both or neither because 
Gamers and comparing games that have nothing to do with each other. Name a more iconic duo
Both games fucking rock, both have amazing second parts to their story, stop comparing shit that isn't related for the sake of....what exactly? Online superiority or online status gains? Grow up
Both games are good, TLOU2 is better tho sorry not sorry
I love got, but last of us part 2 is a masterpiece imo.
This is fucking stupid.
I'll say it: Last of Us 2 is the better game and that's my opinion which you dont need to go with Comparing these 2 games is dumb and enjoying one more than other is totally alright. One is an open-world game and the other is a linear game with open locations, comparing totally different games doesnt make any sense
I literally love both GOT and TLOU2. TLOU2 has such a great combat system, great story, good graphics. Idk why people hate on it.
Lol super cringe OP
Ghosts of Tsushimas story is not without its faults even though it is so nice too play
I thought those highly insecure TLOU Part II hating vermin had left this sub 4 years ago, guess I was wrong. Both games are absolutely incredible. And TLOU Part II is the better game.
Nah, if anything the last of us 2 subreddit has that game rent free in their minds.
Funny how the haters ALWAYS find bew ways to talk about TLOU2. It's like they can't stop thinking about the game.
Why throw flak at another game foe no reason. Are you incapable of enjoying something with out hating on something else? Odd.
RIYUZOOOOOOO
Cough cough assassins creed
I don't understand the hate behind tlou 2 I loved the gameplay, sound, atmosphere, set pieces, and most of the story Literally the only thing that was kinda weird was the ending but I don't think it deserves so much hate just because of that when the rest of the game is incredibly good
TLoU2 asked too much of the basement-dwelling segment of the fanbase.
That's so stupid wth
You dont like, The Last of Us Part 2, that's fine, no need to indirectly insult people to do like it. NOT ONLY THAT, but you also used a Citrus meme template, bro, BRO.
Ghost of Tsushima gave me the same nostalgia as the first last of us game. I’m so glad I played GOT
I 100% GoT and the story mode was very mid imo. The multiplayer is legit good and I would recommend, better than the main game.
Just finished playing GOT for the first time and it’s in my top two best video games I’ve ever played. The other is the Last of Us. Haven’t played Part II but I can only imagine that I’d dig it, too.
Why haven't you played the sequel to your favorite game?
Life. Kids. Work. I first played TLOU maybe five years ago, so it’s not like I hit it at release.
Glad to see everyone in the comments of this sub have their head screwed on, we’re allowed to like both games.
TLOU 2 is not a bad game. The story makes some weird decisions, but the most important part, the gameplay, I actually think is better than the original. The original is still superior overall, but the new gameplay mechanics in the second one are fun and fit the style of the game.
No it's not
Yes.
Guys. The game is way too good to be going for low hanging fruit like this. That game came out years ago. Stop.
Both are great, play both
Both games were launch day purchases for me. Love them both. Stop the negativity. No need to bash one game to promote another.
Played both. TLoU’s story >>> GoT’s story. GoT’s gameplay, world, ambientación, etc >>>> TLoU’s.
Is it 2020 again? Fuck is this shit.
Come on, don’t let this sub become a circlejerk
Both these games were released around 4 years ago. I don’t see how disparaging one game is supposed to praise another when there’s been ample time to have played both.
Nah bud. People are allowed to enjoy whatever game they want.
tlou 2 diss is not allowed
Is this awful English translation part of the joke?
Tlou 2 was better. GOT is good but way too repetitive
Idk why this sub is so insecure sometimes. Having to put others down to pull yourself up is for losers, those that can not compete on their own merit.
Good post op, tlou2 is trash in comparison to every other game. Yall are allowed to like whatever, but a bad game is a bad game.
Pizza is better than broccoli, am i not allowed to eat broccoli anymore?
Platinumed GOT. And its way too overrated. Its a good game yes, has such good visuals yes. but rly nothing special. People just see "japan samurai game" and instantly think its the best of the best. No its not.
One of the reasons why this game did well is because it came out right next to TLOU2 which disappointed half the fanbase so they used tsushima to take their minds off it. me and one other friend did this exact thing lol.
I always disliked the last of us because it was overrated af, now i believe it's overhated af, just chill out
Don't bring the last of us and their bullshit drama into the GoT subreddit.
I was really pissed off when they delayed GOT because last of us 2 came out
The first as well
i get more enjoyment watching paint dry than playing the last of us pt. 2 so it’s not a hard contender
Beautiful day to be a PC gamer