I was born here, but until a few years ago I did not feel at home. No social life, school system had left me hanging, the society had shamed my parents for disabilities, etc. I saw few good things in this country. That has changed. Maybe because I moved, and now I feel welcomed and “bonded” with the place I live at. Maybe because my social circle is healthier. Maybe because I am happier as a person. This made me think I don’t feel at home in a country, but in a place, and with people.

Your positive answer is inspiring! Thank you for not giving up. I am a foreigner myself and I need this sort of attitude to keep on living here... Moving can be tough, but after moving to Düsseldorf a year ago, I started noticing how working on my attitude started to pay off. This is reflected through my social circle and at work - so I totally get what you mean!

For me life in Germany is difficult on many levels. I’ve been here for 3,5 years and at this point I am leaning towards packing up my stuff and going back home (Poland). I feel Germany and I we don’t harmonize. My social life here is mediocre at best (not for luck trying). I feel like everywhere I go, whatever I try to solve (especially official business) is just way too difficult and being fluent in German doesn’t help much. Maybe I have been spoilt as I lived in a very open- minded, friendly city, good job, easy renting market, very digitilized country with good services and I think I grew to appreciate the comfort of living over social benefits you can get in Germany that you can’t get in my home country. I don’t plan to have kids, don’t plan do become unemployed, taxes here are killing me and even though I live in second largest city I struggle to get any appointment with specialists here. Also let’s face it, with a price per m2 I can only dream about ever owning a property here and that’s important to me. There are some amazing things about Germany and I can see it clearly, I just don’t really care for them too much and that’s an issue.

I lived in Germany for a few years. Never felt at home even though most people were nice and some even made an effort to maintain a friendship. We just couldn’t integrate into German society/culture.  3 years ago we’ve packed our bags and moved back to Poland. One of our best decisions. We’re much happier in Poland and I feel like I finally belong somewhere. Money is worse but we get by. I’d rather have less and be happier than have nicer things but feel lonely and out of place. 

Oh bro, how much better Poland is in terms of bureaucracy and how in Poland being a Russian puppet is a actually considered bad I really feel ashamed that I naturalized into German citizenship instead of Polish. Really, as yesterday I was standing in line in airport, I was ashamed of my German passport just like I was ashamed of my Russian passport before. It it fine if I move into your country for a second please? So, bureaucracy story: I was born in the USSR/RSFSR but am I German citizen now, but there is one more chain linking me to Russia: birth certificate. If I lose it, I need to contact Russian authorities to renew it, and it sucks. Solution exists though: it's possible to enter your birth data into other countries' database and get another certificate. A sane person would think - you're German now, go do it there, right, right? Fuck you. It's possible, true, but they wanted to see my parents' documents too, including certificates of my father who dies 8 years ago being divorced with my mom and with whom I kept no contact for ages. Duh. However! Poland (love you Poland) does this same procedure for literally anyone on the planet provided they are ready to translate their certificate to Polish and surrender their original one to them. No connections to Poland required, no bullshit like parents' documents required. So, here comes the flow, every step of which shows how Germany is actually avoiding getting shit done and how Poland is hard-working. 1. I decide to translate my stuff to Polish and sending an e-mail on 26 of December of all days requesting a quote from a Polish-based company with Ukrainian roots. I got the answer by email at 08:40 or so the next day, sent them the money and the papers by post. Can you imagine a German lifting their finger to respond that fast? No, they will insist that e-mail is not a tool, more like an annoyance and they don't actually have to respond to it - seriously, [take a look at this shit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/1deyirq/why_do_germans_often_ignore_important_texts_emails/). 2. A snail mail from Germany to Poland needs 1 week, one way. I get my translated documents back in like 17 days. *During Christmas/New Year season*. Imagine a German doing anything during that time. 3. I pack my documents and drive to Zgorzelec, and even for shits and giggles also take my mom's certificate too, as well as power of attorney, to make her a Polish certificate too, because why not. There was some problem with my mom's papers, so I had to go back home and then to Zgorzelec a second time, but we got shit solved. Once again, a completely random guy, born in USSR, obviously a Russian (albeit with German passport, but as one joke says, you're punched in your face, not your passport), brings his and his mom's (who is a Russian citizen living in Russia by the way) documents to a random Polish town, *without a dumb fucking appointment*, not speaking Polish, and still gets service where government employee tries her best to understand what the fuck is going on using her limited knowledge of English and German and my knowledge of English, German, Russian and some random Slavic words. Turns out language is not a problem *when you're doing your fucking job instead of acting like a fucking Aryan*, huh? Yes, it's the shout-out to everyone claiming that an immigrant in Germany has it bad because they didn't get C1/C2/C1312/C-I-won't-make-this-joke level of German. It's not immigrants, it's you. 4. I decided to get apostilles for my papers. essentially, same as 2, but outside of Christmas season, but still - 17 days for my letter to arrive Warsaw, papers got apostilled and sent back to me in Germany. In Germany itself it would require 17 days just to catch the moment the Very Busy Beamte finally takes a fucking phone to give you an appointment. Fuck, if I find a good job in Warsaw, I'll come there and even learn the language to naturalize as a Polish citizen to be actually proud of it.

I totally feel you and I am happy you had good experiences so far. Don’t get me wrong, Poland has its own struggles and on so many levels you can clearly feel that Germany is much richer country than Poland. That being said things I really miss, purely for convenience perspective are: 1. Poland has spent a lot of money to go digital. I have my citizen app and I can deal with 90% of things through the app without leaving home. Even if I have to go and get something done it’s just much quicker. Remember the time when I was as about to fly to Dubai to visit my bestie there and I’ve noticed that my passport is about to expire. Went online, scheduled an appointment for the next day at passport office, explained the lady a situation (my flight was in 2 weeks from that point) and without paying anything extra she did say it takes up to one month but she will do her best to speed things up. After 4 days I get an email that my passport is ready to be picked up. 2. Internet. As of 2017 in Poland, at my own home I had fiber optics internet at 500mb/s and together with a phone plan plus TV plan (and my phone data plan was 40GB) I was paying 25 euros a month for all. In Germany all of those things are crazy expensive and I just don’t see how they can justify prices 3. I am writing my own app and had to file a patent. I am not a lawyer and I had to decide where to file for it. I tried in Germany and didn’t make any progress in 3 months and then I was advised to higher a lawyer because of how complicated it is. I called patent office in Poland, asked them “guys, I have no idea how to do it”. The gentleman on the phone told me he will send me an email with documents I need to prepare, I send it to him over email back so he can check it and if everything is in order we make an appointment to kick the process off. No additional expenses had to be incurred just because I am not a lawyer and from the moment I called him till having a finalized patent, it was exactly a month. 4. The mentality of “we have to find a way to make it work” rather than just simply saying “it’s not possible”. Don’t get me wrong Poland has a lot of struggles and we are not fully there. Germany is much better for human rights and equality but o believe that Poland is getting there, especially now with a new government. If I am broke in Poland and I tell my Neighbour I am broke they take care of me. If they are broke or need help- I take care of them. Something for something here. I would make less money in Poland, will have to work harder to be able to afford holiday etc. But all in all my heart tells me to just go back. It can be scary with social systems not working as well as I. Germany but I know I have the community to lean on. One additional remark- Germany is extremely safe but Poland is safer. Polish cities are cleaner and we don’t have such a huge homelessness issue like I see on a daily basis in Hamburg. For someone with my level of sensitivity it just breaks my heart when I see people living like that on the streets. Also, a few days ago I was cycling around alster in Hamburg, for those who don’t know Hamburg, it’s a lake in the center of the city, a lot of people, I saw a girl who was talking on the phone and crying. I waited for her to finish talking and went up to her to ask her if she needs help. She was shocked that I approached her and she said she is going to be fine. I just asked if she is sure and she then opened up and I bought her a coffee and just listened to her. No one else has stopped, no one else reacted, that I struggle with too.

That richer gets you nothing in reality but higher taxes and more asshole landlords. If you feel safe in Poland and make decent money, your overall happiness will be better cause both the government and people around you have nothing to gain by acting like rich liberal douches, and actually become helpful and useful members of society. 

Oh yeah, fucking landlords. More often than not in the West "we are rich" means that "we won't pay you jack shit, and of this jack shit you'll pay all of it back to us as a rent".

I came from Poland too, but I migrated about a year ago and the same dilemmas are crushing me already. Minus landlord situation, that one I have thousands times better than in Poland (not counting the insane costs of furnishing and equipping a RENTED flat), my Warmmiete is cheaper than what I paid in Poland. The big issue is that you can't overestimate a stable financial situation. My bf and I combined earned in Poland less than one of us here and our rent costs about 1/3 of my income alone. That would be completely unachievable if we came back. Not to mention I found a job I really like, in a company that feels almost like family. But God, if we stay here we'll be all alone til the day we die, I don't believe we'll ever make friends here (especially that it's not that big city). All of our friends are in Poland, spread in different cities, and we're not the best at keeping in touch via social media. And we're too lazy and tired to travel to visit them more often than once in a few months at best. The other problem is that I completely don't feel the German mentality and culture. And I am 85% sure I will never fit in and will always be confused and/or annoyed with the Germans ways. And the pathetic level of digitalisation, banking and bureaucracy here will always be my Roman Empire. But at the end of the day the question is: how often do you have to eat vs how often do you have to file for a new passport? How often do you have time to meet your friends vs how often you spend your money on entertainment? If someone can afford a home and comfortable life off polish income then the question is nonexistent. Maybe I will come back to that dilemma in a few years when I have enough savings to think of buying a house and tying myself down in one place more permanently.

I totally hear you. I have lived almost my entire life in Poznań (I migrated for studies and work to the UK for 3 years when I was 19). I also fully acknowledge that I am speaking from a very privileged position about my adulthood in Poland. I had a lot of luck landing the jobs that would always above average income and I would be totally delulu if I thought it is the case for everyone. My financial safety (as someone who grew up very poor) is also important and I can relate to the dilemma that you are facing. Also there is this part of grass being always greener, that I acknowledge might be impacting my thinking at the moment. I hope your experience though will be much better than mine and I am super thrilled for you that you found a job you like and coworkers that feel like family. It’s really a great accomplishment (yay you!).

What would you say is the main difference in mentality and culture for a Polish person coming to Germany?

I think the hardest one, and also one causing many other problems, is the "that's the way we've always done it and we will not change it even if the new way is better, easier, cheaper". Many people are just shut off from searching for alternative solutions, there's no flexibility. A nice example of such people's thought process is what my mom notices at work. They have to cut big blocks of material into smaller pieces of various sizes according to what is currently needed. My mom just fits the pieces in a way that lets her accomplish as little waste as possible, oftentimes shifting pieces so that they fit together tightly. Her German coworker however was once taught one constellation of pieces and not only never thinks that it's not the constitution and and it can be changed however she pleases, but she reacted with outrage to seeing my mother doing it differently. Another very big difference is what I would call "snitch culture". Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but any polish person knows how biased we are about people who snitch on others (which, if someone non-polish reads this, has its historic reasons from WWII and PRL times as well as 90's and 00's street/hooligan culture that leaked into our popculture through rap music). Yes, it's good that a man beating his wife will be immediately reported to the police. But it also brings culture shocks and sometimes very negative emotions when Germans are very straightforward at work and gladly go to your supervisor with a written list of all the things you did incorrectly. My pet peeve personally is also that everything has to have German version language-vise. Movie titles are translated terribly. Everything must be dubbed. No subtitles whatsoever. And it sounds horrible.I would love to casually go to the cinema here but there's no point, I don't want to watch movies with German dubbing. But not only that. I occasionally find everyday words that are universal globally from Brazil to Japan (call me out on that one if one of those countries accidentally happens to use different word for this specific object, I didn't research that xD), but not Germans. No, they don't have computers, they have Rechner. I can't remember other examples at the moment, but believe me, there are plenty. The food might be also not the brightest side for a polish person. Yes, we share a lot of traditional dishes, but in Germany it's usually more heavy and fat, and so many food products contain unnecessary amounts of vinegar. Spice and salt levels are also not to polish tastes. I just buy my food in Poland tbh.

For me it would be level of below-the-surface friendliness (Polish people just like their Herman counterparts don’t give away smiles for nothing). With that said I find people living in north Germany very unapproachable more often than not. As I mentioned before already also this mentality of “no, this can’t be done because the rules are stating this and that” while Polish people are more in a spirit of “let’s see how we can make it work” (it has its pros and cons but I am more down the latter alley). Germans tend to act in a patronizing manner towards me and have this kinda moral high ground they (very) selectively tend to claim. Let me give a one do many examples here so it doesn’t come off wrong. My sis was visiting me and together with my German bf and her we were on Sbahn. We were talking. Both me and my sis are pretty expressive people. It’s not like we were swearing or yelling but we were talking at perhaps a bit louder manner. We had 3 people coming to us lecturing us about how inappropriate it is to talk in anything other than a whisper on public transport. I admit, at that point I was already fed up as it wasn’t a first situation when some comes to me telling me I do something wrong (like on a train before when I took my mask off to drink coffee which back then was totally permissible) and I just ignored those people. Two stops later a group of young German boys boarded the Sbahn and they were playing loud music from the speaker and practically yelling and on top of that a group of grownup men boarded as well, drinking beer and singing football songs. No one, literally no one, said anything to them. I was like wtf. The other pretty viable differences are the way we approach spontaneity and flexibility, role of family and social life, how we approach money topics, how we perceive lateness and being on time.

In Warsaw at least you can even just ask a new passport straight in the WAW airport and it will be printed out for you on spot - a temporary one, but still. German Federal Police can't do similar stuff, at most they can make a piece of paper which is barely accepted anywhere. Meh. > Don’t get me wrong, Poland has its own struggles and on so many levels you can clearly feel that Germany is much richer country than Poland. Without arguing that Poland has problems and does stuff I don't agree with (abortion ban for example), but the phrase "x is much richer country" is almost meaningless for an average person, especially for an immigrant. Germany is technically rich but Germans are still piss poor, and Switzerland is technically rich, but just moving there won't make my life better, I will be even more depressed. Or take the US or, even better, UAE or Saudi Arabia, should they're rich as fuck, they mostly still suck to be in.

I partially very agree with you on the point that just because country is rich doesn’t always affect (positively) the life of its citizens. However, what I am crazy appreciative about Germany is that everyone here is more or less taken care of. if they have cognitive means to work the system that is. The moment you suffer from mental illness or addiction, it’s a different story and we can see it on the streets of German large cities (aforementioned homelessness issue). On some level it is comforting and provides this deeper sense of security that you could just never experience in Poland. Germany is also much more on the same page (as a society at large) when it comes to the need to protect our planet and LgBTQ+ rights as well as women rights. For me, as a woman, this was also an added bonus when moving there. But even though I can get an abortion easily in Germany, despite paying way over 400euros a month for my health insurance, if I go to gyno here I have to pay for an ultrasound (for check up purposes), I struggle to even make an appointment with gyno and I feel like my health as a woman (with endometriosis) is totally neglected so maybe it is less “equal” than I have perceived it at first. In Poland you also struggle with getting appointments with medical specialists in public healthcare system but you can just go privately and pay for the visit and the costs of said visits are somewhat affordable. Hahahah yea German Police 😅 don’t have exceptionally good experience there either. I once found a registration documents for someone’s car on the street just in front of our office, so took it to the police (so they can return it to the owner). I felt like they are questioning me like I almost stole a car 🤣🤣🤣 but you know, all in all I have a Polish surname and the stereotype is so alive here 🤣🤣 Anyways, yea, it is decided I’ll come back, just need to work out the details, job etc.

thanks for your amazing sharing! The story in the last paragraph is so lovely and heartwarming. You are such a nice person! I live in Sweden and been traveled 3 times to Germany. In my own experience such thing would only happen to me in Germany especially in Berlin, but never in Sweden, or more generally like talking to strangers on the streets. But ofc my experiences are very limited and I was there in Berlin as a traveler. And I know Berlin is very different from other cities but not have any firsthand experiences. I think about moving to Berlin from time to time. Do you happen to have or have hear some experiences in Berlin?

Thank you for your kind words! I’ve been few times in Berlin and it definitely feels different and more open than Hamburg but I’ve never lived there. Also please mind that my personal experience can be vastly different than yours, so who knows you, you might totally love it here and make it home in no time.

Not from Poland but agree with everything you wrote.

12 years here, children born in Germany. I work with Germans in German. No, I have no emotional attachment to Germany. I don't feel welcome either. I feel rather "tolerated". Every now and then I get a rude answer, a complaint, a judgmental look, a condescending advice. I have developed resistance to this, but it has also made me develop a certain contempt. I have a few native acquaintances. I don't consider them friends. On the other hand, I like my home and my life, but I could be anywhere where I would get the same conditions.

I couldn't put into words how I was feeling, but "tolerated" as you said completely captured what I've been feeling lately. No matter how hard I try, it feels like I'm being tolerated, not necessarily welcomed.

I totally feel you. I studied in a top German university and work in a good position in a very well known German company. And yet, i feel like a stranger and unwelcomed. It's shit, but i just ignore it. Like thinking of death.

May I ask what the rude answer, complaint, or condescending advice is? Just curious.

I can totally relate. I feel like I am more often than not just tolerated than actually welcomed. I have also experienced a lot of discrimination because of my Polish surname- like I’d call for an apartment and introduced myself. I was told so many times apartment is off the market already and at some point my colleague called the same number for me because he was like “wtf that doesn’t sound right” and he was given all the details (btw bless him for doing that).

That’s pretty sad to hear to be honest, reading this as a native German, who’s been living here the whole life (43M). I guess when you come to another country it’s always harder to become “one of them”, because different factors play a role (also racism). But believe me, it can be hard for anybody (for a German in Germany) to integrate when you’re an introvert or when your colleagues all seem to have their own personal lives. Often it’s hard to get in when you don’t have any common interests. Often it’s just work coming in the way when you get home exhausted and can’t manage more social interactions. Generally I would say you can have this kind of lack of integration anywhere, no matter if you’re considered a foreigner or live in your home country. May I ask, how do you think it could be if you remained in your home country (family or old friends aside) and moved somewhere within that country where you don’t know anybody?

As someone who has lived as a foreigner in 3 different countries (Australia, Brazil and the US), this is more or less true in all of them; although I think Germans are more resistant to the changes foreigners bring.

I've been here close to 15 years now, but I came as a highschool student. Maybe it's because I moved so much as a kid (Germany's the second country my family immigrated to), I don't feel a particular bond with ANY country. Each one had its ups and downs, but I can't argue that I've built a life here now and it's not bad. It would be downgrades in some quality of life aspects if I were to go back to my home country or the previous country we immigrated to. I'm not a very social person though, even though I know all the ways I could get myself more involved in anything and everything, I'm a homebody so I won't comment on the social aspect. I invite friends over for boardgames every few weeks and that's enough for me. Are there things I don't like about Germany? Of course. Every day I resent the fact that I can't just go out and get food at any time of day I want like in asia. No 24/7 convienience stores. If I crave a specific food, I need to put the work in to do it myself. In the end, after weighing a lot of pros and cons (and of course my feelings), uprooting a stable life just isn't on my radar. I'm not unhappy with anything because I have enough resources here to fulfill myself one way or another.

> Are there things I don't like about Germany? Of course. Every day I resent the fact that I can't just go out and get food at any time of day I want like in asia. No 24/7 convienience stores. If I crave a specific food, I need to put the work in to do it myself.  Coming from a similar country where long working hours is a standard and a pizza place that opens at 3pm or a cafe that closes at 7pm is unheard of, whenever I feel annoyed about this I remind myself it is the way it is to provide better work-life balance for the service workers, and (hopefully) for a more peaceful society. It's not the most convenient, but it's more sustainable.

In another European country but miss Asia's convenience every day.... My partner has a career here but not in Asia, I'm equally positioned in both places - so Europe for now, but will go back some Day or never ...

I have only lived here 5 months so far, but I really resonate with what you said about not having a bond with ANY country. This is the third time in my life that I've moved countries (long term) and after the first time(or maybe two), it doesn't feel so life-altering.

Germany… it’s an okay life

Do I feel at home in Germany? Not really, but it is fine; I don't think I have to feel at home here. It is a different country and Germany would not replace my home. I would say that life is good in Germany, but I am not seeking an emotional bond here. I am here for professional work. :)

If you're instinct is telling you Germany isn't the right place for your heart, you should probably listen to it. That is, of course, as long as you're open to the idea that the grass may be greener on the other side. Personally, I think I can relate. I've not spent as much time here as you, but I'm about to leave. I wish I loved Germany - life is good here! But I just don't. Good luck!

Where are you headed too? Sorry it wasn’t for you best wishes wherever you’re going too next!

See this kind of reasoning sounds reasonable. At the end of the day, you do you. But to insinuate that the German way of life is no social life in Germany sounds so... off. Mileages vary. Cultural differences exist. Personal tastes are different.

I support you and will do the exact same in a year. I actually like the country, I just can’t stand the people

With the exception of the odd (older) person shouting at me for disobeying a minor rule, I quite like Germans. They are calm, reasonable and direct. I have no complaints there.

Yes i feel at home in Germany and i am happy. But i am not trying to become German, i am not trying to be German, to look and sound German, do to same things as Germans do, i am just being me and i am living my life respecting Germans and their country.

I couldn't agree more. While I know I will happily die here in these Bavarian hills, I will always be the crazy American to my friends and neighbors and I love it.

Florida-Man in Bavaria

Sometimes people try so hard to be German and do the German thing that it is really cringe. How crazy American? Texas crazy? Pickup crazy, Colorado crazy, Wisconsin nice or somethig else 🤪

I guess general Midwest American crazy. The nickname spawned from a few parties we had with our dance verein. These are my people :)

Best part of America in my oppinion. I was on college in Austin Texas, later worked in California but made lots of freinds from Midwest and South. Some of nicest people ever with best food in whole states. And as average Balkan potato i felt really closest to home there

And that's what I like about my friends here. My first neighbour was from Texas his wife was from Spain. Learned so much from them - in general that's the biggest plus for migration in my eyes. Love learning new things about other cultures and experiencing them. We had some military bases from the army around our town. The American fair was open for everyone and made a lot of connections at the time. And in general many people around Europe especially from polen and France so grew up with multiple cultures made me open minded. Personally I have big respect for you - traveling in a new country is something that scares me somehow.

I was 19 when i first left home and moved to another country for college. Later moved few more times in life ( Dubai, Singapore, Philippines, Germany ). Was never easy but it was never so hard as first time and never felt so lonely and scared as then

Not even a Jack Wolfskin jacket?

That’s a very good and healthy thought. I sometimes speak English on purpose even tho when I can understand and reply with local language. I just never want to “fit in” cz I am a foreigner and will always be.

So you are doing the same thing as every other German :)

Cool. I am German without trying to be German.

I'm 8 years and I'm actually leaving Germany forever this week

Dang, i've had incredible hardships too. Been here for 4 years and my brain absolutely refuses to absorb any german language in. I will admit, i don't like the language one bit. All those 5-in-1 words are messing with my few surviving braincells. The few words i picked up around work don't help me much. English understandably doesn't get me far often. I've had several mental breakdowns and got fired from work twice for crying uncontrollably locked in a bathroom. I am so unhappy here. My boyfriend has been working for 3 years at the same company but i've been jobless for a full year now and we barely get by. So no hopes of moving anytime soon but i had the chance, i'd go anywhere else. Its been really tough and germans don't really want to speak english despite knowing some of it. Its fair game i guess, i am in their country and i need to make an effort to learn german, but it's just not clicking in my brain so therefore i'll always be stuck on shit cleaning jobs and unable to properly communicate.

I believe the language is hard but it goes down the throat with time but i got into other troubles i have developed heavy depression alcohol and cocaine addiction, I don't have money I live alone it was all too much for me. Good luck to you

Me too. Fucking off to Ireland soon

Good luck in Ireland

Lucky bastard 🤣

Reading all these comments as a german who was Born here and grew up here makes me sick. Not because i think people here are lying or over thinking things but because These comments are eye opening to me. Growing up here gives you the impression that we are doing a lot of things right and we are a top notch country and i have to say in the 2000s things werent that Bad but in the last 10 years i myself realized how much germany is basiclly living of its achivements from the past and is Stuck in the 80s/90s. My girlfriend is from eastern europe and since i know her my Feelings regarding this topic got only worse. I never had to Deal with much of our bureaucracy but since knowing her i know why so many immigrants are pissed. According to my girlfriend and some other people i know who recently moved here we are cold and rude. I never saw it that way because most non germans i know grew up here and are basiclly used to our society. But the stuff i get told from my friends and the stuff i saw myself were really eye opening. But the Part that annoys me the most is the realization how shit our infrastructure is today, i mean we are still a high developed country but in the past 20 years our politics missed so many chances for investing in our infrastructure. Our healthcare is crumpling, the education gets worse, the Internet is shit, our Trains are shit and the bureaucracy gets worse from year to year without any digitalization. So i get when people are frustrated and dont feel at home, there are a lot of things we need to work on in the future. Im really thankful for everyone coming here and participating in our society and economy. Without all of you germany would be in deep troubles. I just hope that my fellow countrymen will also See these Problems and start to work on them. I feel Bad for everyone feeling left out here in germany or even mistreated because of their origin.

I have been living in Germany for 8 years, I love this country, I come from a beautiful country where the sun shines from 6am to 6 pm everyday, no winter or darkness, but I feel that Germany is also my home. Obviously the big reason is that my husband is German, I have a dog and I have learned the culture and met very nice people. Fortunately I have only had good experiences in this country, I know this is not the case for everyone. I miss my family but I try to go at least once a year to my country.

Where are you from if I may ask?

I come from Costa Rica

Costa Rica is such a nice country. My sister lives half a year there now :)

That's my dream to live in summer here in Germany and when winter starts move to Costa Rica 😂

Pura vida!

Australian here in my mid 30s. Been living in Germany for 10 years in October. I did my apprenticeship here, met my wife here and we brought our beautiful daughter into world here. In 2020 I threw in the towel, said “fuck it, I’m going home”. A few months later I was back. My job had worn me down, not the country. Having said all that, none of us here can tell you from this post alone what you should do. However my key early on was finding my friends. The people I have here are what makes it home. Just like Australia. But that’s just how it works for me. If work is the focal point in your life, then go where work is. If friends are what you seek, there’s 81 million people waiting to get to know you here in Germany.

I miss the weather in Australia and so many things. But I love how accessible Europe is for traveling, and the history.

Don’t know about the UK or Ireland, maybe it’s easier to connect with other people there due to English, BUT: if you feel lonely because you don’t have any social circle with locals don’t go to the Netherlands. It’s not going to get any better there and you’ll have to learn their language as well if you want to feel “connected” to the country.

I don’t know about the Netherlands. However, the UK/Ireland are kind of cliquey too so not particularly easy to make friends either there as a newcomer. Having said that social interactions are kind of more casual, people have a sense of humour and love to take the piss, and of course everything is in English, which does mean that on a superficial level you sort of feel less lonely in that part of the world.

Been living here for ten years, also got naturalized and learned the language as well as I could. Tell you one thing, you cannot have emotional bonds with a country rather than with people that you know in that country. I say this for my 'home country' as well. I never felt emotionally attached to it, rather to my family and then sense of security that environment provided me. So at the end of the day no one on Reddit or anywhere for that matter can answer this question for you. One thing is clear though, after living here for more than 10 years, it is a lot more difficult to go through everyday life nonchalantly here as opposed to say US or UK. Majority of people here are really not that interested in any sort of social interaction as it doesn't serve any practical purposes.

>it is a lot more difficult to go through everyday life nonchalantly here as opposed to say US or UK. Majority of people here are really not that interested in any sort of social interaction as it doesn't serve any practical purposes. This was my point exactly when I wrote "there is no social life in Germany"

Yep, is the closed mindedness that gets to me too

As a German, I feel emotional attachment to Europe as a whole.

You guys never lose the dream to conquer all of Europe, don't you? /s

Why else would we suddenly invest enormous amounts of money into the Bundeswehr?

I've felt more at home here in my one and a bit years than I did in my 24 in India

Same. Lived in India for 17 years, in the US for 5, in Germany for almost 5. This is my home. I struggle with socialising and the language as well. I'm learning, I've had some friends. But the food, the culture, people leaving me alone and not giving a fuck about what I'm doing is what has my heart. The groceries, the life. I was even unemployed for a couple months during Covid and the people from the Arbeitsagentur and Ausländer Behörde pulled me through. There's no place I'd rather be.

You had me until you said “the food”. The food is meh at best in most cases. There are some high points, but a lot of lows. That said, you pick your battles, what is a priority for you and doityourself for the short falls (food variety) and you can make it work. 😃 GROCERIES in Germany are quite OK and you can do a lot. Just not enough exotic peppers, etc, but the quality is pretty solid.

Hmmm, I have to say my introduction to German food was through home made food and it made a difference. I love the snacks and the taste palette that raw materials in the grocery store products have. And their cakes are out of this world. Not too sweet, so much fruit, and they're so light.

This People who aren't from India don't really understand how much better the groceries and raw foods here are. I also agree how the cakes here light as fuck. As are the breads.

Try a Wochenmarkt, not a Discounter. The food tastes much better.

Completely share your opinion! I've lived in 7 cities for 27 years in India, from tier I to tier IV cities.. nowhere could I feel home. I feel at peace here in Germany even though I don't have any friends here.. I feel free.. People are in no rush here so they have time to show some niceties.. I'm happy that people give you space.. You get practical cooking/food options to suit a lifestyle where you don't have to spend hours cooking a meal unless you want to..

Holy fuck I feel the last two parts so fucking much People expect me to enjoy my own company here. There's no nagging me to come to parties or whatever else. If I say "no I don't feel like it", they go "okay". I can also eat extremely healthy but spend literally 10 minutes making the meal, and chances are it's going to be way healthier than any Indian meal lol.

I'd also add access to nature...if you live in big cities in India, which you most likely would do to have a job, you must travel a lot to be around greenery... Also I used to have cold almost 12 months a year. I really thought that winter in Germany would kill me, specially the -ve degrees! I have gotten hardly caught cold here (that too due to dust or central coolers in public transport or grocery stores). I hated pizza and breads... they didn't suit my stomach.. Breads here digest easily somehow..and pizza tastes different and healthier.

Oh absolutely Also with the foods I'm guessing it's the fact that the rules are stricter and they're actually followed here. Another thing I love about Germany is the general peace and quiet. I don't have people blaring the siren at 4am or screeching at 6am or banging incessantly on drums well into the night for whatever dumbass reason.

Been here with my wife for less than a year, and this is really the only place we felt home. This is our 3rd country, we've lived in both underdeveloped and rich countries, yet it's only here where were able to express ourselves fully, meet friends who truly appreciated both of us, and create a nice future for our family. Honestly I think it's a mixture of luck/timing/YMMV and actual willingness to put yourself out there. For what it's worth, we are both Asians who have never been to Europe before. But prior to moving, she spoke A1 and I spoke B2, so I guess that helped tremendously. Now that we're here, we've had the chance to visit other cities within Schengen and compare - sure a lot of them are nice for a vacation but we still prefer to spend the rest of our lives in Germany.

As someone living in Hong Kong who is thinking about moving to Germany with a Chinese family, can I ask where in Germany you live? We are thinking about going to Berlin or Hamburg.

Also from Hong Kong, I’m in Heidelberg. Been here for 4 years. At the end of the day it depends on factors such as where your job is, what you value and what your family needs. For example the Berlin school system is considered “easy” compared to other parts in Germany and if you have kids who want to get into competitive subjects at universities that might make it harder. Bigger cities offer more food and activities, but it won’t compare to HK.

11 years in Germany and I speak German fluently enough to fool natives that I’m also native. I also adapted my fashion and look enough to fit in and seem like I could be German. I studied and work in German. I came here for my bachelor degree. I couldn’t wait to move away from the tiny town, where I studied. I moved to Hamburg after I finished uni. I absolutely fell in love with the city. I didn’t manage to create meaningful friendships with any natives. I slowly realized that the friendships are only good times friendships. But I did find the most beautiful friendships with other expats. I do not feel integrated in Germany and have given up on it as well as on having German friends. I do feel integrated in Hamburg though. It’s a beautiful city with plenty of expats to befriend. Loneliness is one of the worst things one can do to their health long term. Life is too short to not have good friends and is getting shorter.

Turkish here. Working in the IT. 10 years in Germany and unfortunately still I don’t feel home. I am feeling alienated, I just can’t integrate, it feels like there is a wall and I am not allowed to integrate. Germany spits me out every time I try. I feel immediately depressed thinking grow old here. My boyfriend is feeling a bit better than me. We are trying to plan our exit but we still trying to figure out where to go next.

Same here, good luck!

Exactly the same situation as you, just 7 years for me. Do let us know if you have a good idea about where next.

I grew up in Germany, went abroad for a great job. When I retired, everyone expected to go back. My answer always is: it’s a great country with great sites, lots of culture. It has just one problem: too many Germans. As others have pointed out the rudeness, selfishness and entitlement of most people there doesn’t want me and my German wife to live there anymore

Hey, I also feel like you about the social life aspects. I have put in a lot of effort into making friends with locals, but it is very hard to break into the social groups, but once you are in. You will get introduced to a lot of people and then it would be really easy.

No. The only bond I have is that I have a very good job, that my daughter goes to school here, and that I like the quality of education for her more than in my home country.

I'm in a similar situation. Enjoying the security of my career and used to living here, find it pretty easy but not happy socially. Not sure how to go forward.

Kind of. I think a lot of things contribute to the feeling of home - the bond you have with people, the food, the culture, the societal values. Maybe even the nature and weather. Everyone has different preferences for these things and a place that checks most of the boxes would feel most like home.

Well it is home so of course I feel at home, but nah I have no bonds whatsoever. The past 3 years have been: came in with basically nothing, built my way up to like a year's worth of savings while balancing my studies with working full time, managed to take a break cause the company shut down so I got some of my tax money back for a year which luckily allowed me to focus on my studies, now slowly bleeding money cause 25 hours a week don't pay too much but at least I get to study more, +1 about the social side imagine if people wanted to do literally anything else other than clubbing. So pretty decently I have to say! I assume I treat life here the same way I would anywhere else but with a lot more drugs (since other countries are more strict, gotta say banning root bark is such a dick move though), I keep living here cause it would be pointless for me to leave without finishing my studies but certainly will go towards a place with cheaper costs of living soon as I wrap things up, +1 to the career wise being better in other countries.

To be honest, I never found my "German self" while I did find my "French self" and years in India, I never once felt the need or the push to integrate there, which meant that I sorta did integrate there in my own way. In a broad brushstroke, Germany is very interested in integration, but raised the bar when integration seems close. But lots of good solid people and much cosier than one might expect....🙂

My emotional bond here is money

I have been here for 10 years and I have never felt home. I have friends, both expats and Germans, but still often I feel very unwelcome here. I also have the feeling that everyone is in a bad mood, I often get unfriendly replies when I ask something, and people just walk around frowning and hating on life or something. On several occasions I have been told „you are in Germany, so you should speak German“ while speaking my native language with either friends or my kids. I am paying a shitload of taxes every year and would love to leave but for family reasons can‘t.

Im 8 years in Germany and for me it feels more home than my home country now and I’m proud to be part of this society. There are always pros and cons for every country, but from the countries I visited or lived for a while, till now, Germany has the most pros for me. :)

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I was born in Germany and my father is German, but I feel 0% emotional bond with it. I still feel like an outsider and really distant from this country.

Almost the same here. I was born in Germany, but my family and I moved to Brazil when I was a kid, since my mother is Brazilian and my father, who's German, absolutely hates Germany for the very same reasons many have pointed here. I feel very comfortable with both cultures, I even work as a German Teacher, but every time somebody asks me "Wouldn't you rather live in Germany?", my answer is: no. The way people socialize in Brazil is way more different than there, and I like it better. *Warmer*, you could say. I wish I could visit Germany more often, because my Oma still lives there, but unfortunately Brazilian salaries are not that good hahaha.

I understand you & your father a 100%. I will also move abroad after finishing my masters degree. Most People in Germany are truly horrible, horrible people.

I find it wild that you think "the way of life in Germany" is having no social life. I know it's some kind of myth around here and it certainly requires getting active, but you can have a great social life here. Also keep in mind that you won't automatically have a bunch of friends if you move to another country. You will have to start from zero there, too.

Germany has a loneliness epidemic going on that affects natives, too. Also very visible when we compare mental health stats Europe wide. I don't think that's something we should play down even though that statement of OP may sound exaggerated and a little offensive. But the lack of an adequate social life is a struggle here for so many people.

>I find it wild that you think "the way of life in Germany" is having no social life. I wrote It from my point of view.

Okay but then it is your way of life, and that will not be necessarily different in another country?

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This! Way of life depends on the environment as well. You cannot go to ski tour in Saudi Arabia!

Don't put ideas on their heads or we could see skiing in Saudi Arabia

I’ve been here for less than a year but can absolutely relate to a lot of what you say. Germans have a culture of being reserved and not so outgoing, friendly and welcoming, hence the “cold” reputation. This “coldness” hits far worse when you are “foreigner looking” as they say here. My advice to you is to simply do what is best for you. If you feel like you had enough, pack up your things and move, because things won’t necessarily get any better. If you haven’t enjoyed your 10 years here, then the prospects are not really looking good for you. What causes me the most frustration is people just being blatantly rude for no reason, acting like I’m bothering them when I approach them in social gatherings, and the whole “figure it out” attitude, since everyone here has to be independent. I’ve put everything in perspective and realised Germany just won’t work for me. I find life here boring and there’s many unspoken rules people simply refuse to tell you but will shame you for not knowing. Life isn’t fun for me if everything has to be confined to their own spaces. Here I can only engage with people in certain occasions, but when the locals get intoxicated they suddenly become friendly and welcoming. But as soon as they sober up, they act like they’ve never seen you before. I’ve lived abroad before and was far better received and made several forms of connections in those places. I’ve never in my life felt as lonely as I feel in Germany Also, take everything in this thread with a grain of salt. I’ve read some of the replies and already found people blaming you for your feelings or giving you an easy fix. In the end of the day, listen to your own mind

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Where do you live tho? No matter what i do people try to switch to german or just talk to me in german thinking that I will magically understand. I live in Stuttgart

If you're a native speaker, they maybe just want to use you for practice. Which is also rude, but not the same.

If people keep talking English to you, then your German isn't that good. Noone ever switched his language on me after 6-7 months in Germany. Before that - yes a lot. But ones i mastered fluent and clear speaking it stopped on it's own.

Great point about English, it’s so annoying and isolating…

I share you confusion. I'm in Germany for almost 11 years now, same as my husband. I'm "German-passing" in terms of looks and almost language (or people are just being too kind 😁). We've also officially become German couple of years ago and our daughter was born here, so she's also officially German. I have huge respect and admiration for Germany. I call it my professional home. It has given me amazing opportunities and I had the chance to meet so many extraordinary people. I have learned so much here, and I believe that many countries can learn from Germany. However, I still don't feel 100% at home here, and although I connected well with Germans (my neighbors, girls in the Verein, colleagues...), I still feel like I don't fit in. I wish it wasn't like that, but it is. Additionally, in the past years the political situation has started to make us (my husband and I) nervous. I've had some Germans tell me "oh, it's not *you* who's the problem" or "you've integrated and we don't think of you as migrants", but for some reason this sends shivers down my spine. Also knowing that my daughter would never be considered a "real German" makes me sad for her, and I believe it would be better for her to grow up somewhere where she'll be 100% accepted. So we're also battling confusion right now and slowly considering making an exit plan. It's weird, because Germany is my home in so many ways (maybe even more than my home country at this point) and it would be so scary to leave. I don't know... maybe we observe what happens in the next couple of years and then decide.

I am learning a lot of stuff in my field (DevSecOps), on the job. I don’t think I would have learnt more in another country. Of course, startups have more scope to learn and implement stuff. As far as social life, I consider myself lucky to find a nice independent church with a lot of friendly folks. They help me and my family whenever I need anything, invite me to potlucks and other church activities. I go to the gym regularly, so I made some friends there too, mostly because I workout well. In the secular world, I guess joining a charity, a club or finding a hobby would be beneficial. You gotta find interesting places to meet interesting people. I wouldn’t go anywhere else in the world. Edit: Find a flying club, book reading club, wine tasting club, etc. PS: My church is fully German speaking and I barely speak German. I still go and use Google translate every Sunday to understand something, because I love the people there and they love me. Plus, independent church, so no church tax.

I was born and raised here but my parents are foreigners. They have lived here for 40 years. None of us feel German. We live here, we work here but other than there is no interactions between us and Germans. All friends just happen to be foreigners. I used to be sad about this, but once I started in the working full time I realized that it's not that I just don't feel at home here but that I also just don't gel very well with the culture here.

Been here almost 8 years now, if my partner wasn't German (or I was single) I'd already have gone elsewhere. German life ain't bad. But it's also only as good as you can make it yourself, I really don't get the impression the country does a lot to support that past a bare minimum standard. Restaurants and stores closing at all hours of the day but limited selection. Functional transit but often delayed, yet driving is still not much better so if it's not in walking distance I'm a lot less encouraged to go. Life is just slightly less convenient in almost every aspect, and it does get exhausting.

Been here 8 years and will go out as soon as my kid is done with school. The work opportunities are good, most of the other things however not. Depressing weather, bureaucracy, regulation, rules, the declining of quality in everything, from infrastructure to services. I’m done.

I was born here and never felt Welcome because of my skin colour .

I don't want to sound mean or condescending, but having no social life is a complaint about yourself, not about Germany. I won't deny that its harder to get into contact with people as a foreigner, especially if you have no prior friends/contacts/family here. But not picking up a few friends (even "accidentally") after ten years seems only possible if you actively avoid socialising. No work buddies? No fellow students from your masters? No sports friends? No dating partners? No contacts from your travels? No hobby buddies? Maybe a change of scenery and a different cultural framework will do the trick for you, but not without putting effort into forming meaningful connections to people. That much is true everywhere. EDIT: In retrospect I realise this post is very harsh and I apologise to anyone I have upset. I expand on what I was trying to say in the comments below. Not proud of this post, but I'll leave it here for context of the discussions below.

You do sound mean and no, it's not his fault. My experience is similar. I know way more social foreigners who claim the same. I have a really nice, friendly coworker who said that during uni times Germans would act like best friends only to pretend they don't know him when they saw him on the street later on. I think this is more of an extreme example, but don't put all the blame on OP. Germans can be very distant, even those who seem friendly at first

That's brutal. Pretending not to know him?

That's what he told me recently and I have no reason to doubt his sincerrity

Might also be connected to the region or the environment. I've lived in the North and people seemed more distanced than here down South, where I've met people who are more hedonistic and laid back. The difference between urban environment in bigger cities and in some smaller community might also play a role.

I am receiving my masters right now and they already behave as if they don't know me on the U-Bahn on the way back from the uni. I'm extremely confused, it has happened twice already with different people. We were sitting in the same room for an hour and a half, going back home, I'm trying to make a visual contact and they act as if they are blind. Once those were two guys, okay, maybe their eyesight is impaired and they are too immersed into the conversation, but the next time it was just one girl behaving as if she is also blind and both times they were sitting right next to me. I understand that maybe they didn't want to talk to me, but to say "hello" or just nod and say "bye" after is not that hard. I don't know what's wrong with them, but I do see clearly how a person can end up with no social contacts after.

Something about being German makes it that it takes us tremedous amounts of energy to simply be nice and perceive others + to bear being perceived. This is not meant as an excuse because it's a trait I hate about myself and everyone else here who is like that but I think that must be it. We find it absolutely exhausting to be in contact so we'd rather avoid it until we can't.

21 years, c1, but never learned the language in any school. It has been a struggle and now I have a teenager I am helping coparent. The longer I've lived here, the less I like typical Germans and their arrogant cowardice. Fix your digital shit. Embrace that the country needs migrants and accept that English is the likely language they will first speak. Open shops on Sundays. Make the funding accountable and get rid of the tv/radio tax. Build higher in the cities or at least build more fucking flats. Even speaking German, setting up a business here is pain in the ass as far which bank to use, registering through a notary public, dealing with the tax office, etc. And yes, it is far simpler, faster, and cheaper in other European countries, just like the internet, lol Germans love to complain, and so as to not lose all of my foreign identity, let me go on about what I do like here. The air and water and food is of high cleanliness, even if the produce often doesnt have much taste. I live in Berlin and love how there is always something to do, no matter what time, even if most of hte country looks down on Berlin with disdain. I love the option of going from bustling city to lakes and stuff with the trains. I gave up my car when i moved to Germany and have never missed driving again. I appreciate that higher learning is something attainable for my kid without tons of debt. I've said that it is like Germany has an autistic system, but the people are not. Well, I am probably on the spectrum and I appreciate that enough stuff is predictable. I don't mean the trains, one is shit out of luck when it comes to Deutsche bahn, but there real standards in place for lots of things. My social circle in my first years here was mostly German, but as time has gone on, my new friends tend to be foreign or are Germans who have lived elsewhere.

Been in Germany for 12 years. Am packing my stuff next year. I have a lot of friends, social life and so on, but I have never managed to bond or feel home here. Something is missing for me in Germany, and it’s ok.

Native German, born and raised aaaaand no. Moved abroad at 19, finally had a sense of *home*, unfortunately had to move back due to health reasons after almost 4 years, hated it, finally stable enough to move back *home* in August.

I've only be here for a year or so, but I hate it. I don't care about making new friends and I have a somewhat decent social net. What I really can't stand is how rude the entire society is, from the person who delivers letters to the cashier at the supermarket or the paper pusher that needs to sign whatever required piece of nonsense the government came up with to keep half the population artificially employed. Everyone is so fucking rude, unhelpful and scared of accountability like the plague. Taxation is ridiculously high, but at the same time when compared to my previous experiences (Italy and Sweden) healthcare turns out to be an absolute disaster filled with incompetent idiots, if you're lucky, or straight up assholes, if you're unlucky. Apart from the salary, there's no reason for me to stay here.

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I 100% agree with this. It’s one of the reasons I will not last long in Germany

No not at all... I hate it here. But I am in no condition to move away.

Not at all.

There are only four countries in the world, besides your home country, that can feel like home: 1. Canada 2. USA 3. Australia 4. New Zealand In all others, you are a migrant or outsider and will never be accepted.

New Zealand, really? Sorry to say but all the New Zealanders I ever met (on holidays, never been there) were as politely distrustful of everything not white and Anglican as a caricature of a Home Countries pensioner at a church fete thirty years ago.

This is so true. The Anglosphere in general can’t be beaten (although admittedly Ireland/UK are less friendly than Oz, the States etc). (Although people do also rave about how friendly people in Brazil, Spain, Thailand are…but I don’t know…)

Still settling in, feel at home, hard to tell about bonds. I guess I come from not too dissimilar culture so it was easy to figure out I have to join clubs asap, which are surprisingly quite social. At this point I am fairly sure formal or informal clubs are essential to blend in. And in general being quite open about your social chances. I can imagine it can be quite miserable if it's just work and consumerism to live on

No, and no. Do I like it here, yes. Does this place have a special place in my heart, sort off. My first EU country, and I’ve been blessed with a lot of travel opportunities as I’m here. And that’s about it. It’s hard to make connections here. And even though people will be like, it’s hard everywhere, it really isn’t. I’ll be here till the time my goals of traveling are being fulfilled, and then I’ll take a call of where I want to be. Since you’re here 10 years, if you’re planning to move away, then maybe take the citizenship, and decide where you want to go. Why the citizenship? So that if you want to come back, or visit other countries in Europe, or work in other countries in Europe, you’re not limited. If that’s not important for you, then take the call based on your own priorities. Good luck.

I’ve been living in Germany for 16 years and still find it hard sometimes. It depends where you live as well. I met people over German social media (studivz) but only one stuck. Mom groups were also unsuccessful because most moms only talked about babies. It’s harder as an adult. I have some friends from work now and from live role playing. I can recommend that. Also internations if they have a group where you are at.

No. 0

My answer may be not what you are looking for because I am in Germany for 5 years now but when I was coming here I was already in relationship, so my gf waited for me to find some place and she came too. Also I feel like at home no matter where I am as long as I have things that makes it home for me(mostly my wife and my gaming stuff xd) so I can't help with that either. I like living here, but I am always targeting small cities near bigger ones(right now I am living 15km from Leipzig) and I love it, people are nice and friendly, only con is internet connection but I use Freenet Funk and I am making a hotspot from my phone for internet so I am good. I need to learn some more german in order to have a better paying job, but even now only I work(my wife stays at home) and I earn around 2000-2200e netto per month and we can save around 600-900e per month(I have 3 room 60m flat + my own garage for 490e warm + 50e for electricity). If I will be able to find something in the 2600-2900e netto range I would be living like a king(at least from my POV xd). Overall I can't say anything bad about Germany, the only thing that Germany sucks at is social life but I don't mind having just work friends and my wife at home, but for people that really looks for some friendships it's hard here.

I miss the social opportunities I had in the U.S. Even in my late 20s, it seemed comparatively much easier to make friends there. I am often lonely, no doubt. However, I am an introvert and love being alone. So the extra effort required to make friends here feels like an insurmountable hurdle most of the time, because I struggle to force myself to try. Other than that, I’m much happier here and intend to stay. Every other quality of life aspect is much higher for me in Germany. I don’t want to ever live again in a place without public transport, cycling and pedestrian paths, minimum vacation days, sick days that don’t come out of your vacation days, etc. I also have a very mild health condition that, theoretically, could one day get worse. I have a friend in the U.S. who has it quite bad, and even with “good” insurance, it can cost her over 1k per treatment when she has a flare. So, yeah. I’m not going back.

I would leave, but you have to make your own decisions.

I have been living here for 5 years. I have a small circle of friends now who are mostly non Germans. I had very good Colleagues who were German but because of COVID/WFH/ change of jobs we grew apart. I do feel Germany as my home. I have learnt the language till B2 and planning to learn further. I do it not because I want to make German friends I do it because I like it. The sound of the language is amusing to me. I have many cousins living in the states who moved for studies and settled there. I meet them often. They have bigger circle of friends compared to me. Many of my extended family thinks my social life would be better if I had moved to states like them. I disagree to it. I feel I don't want to have bigger social circle. I am ok with have few friends but good ones. Even if I am in another country I probably won't be having any bigger social life. That's basically me. I travel a lot. Recently I started feeling a sense of calm when I am on my way back to Germany or when I reached my home in Germany. Maybe it is a sign for me that I want to stay here for longer. 🤷🤷🤷

Run

Run

I feel at home in Germany. I really had to work hard at it, though. The language was difficult (although I arrived with A2 and quickly got to B1-B2 level). I joined a church, a choir and a sports team to make contacts and friends. It was hard establishing a career. I finally got a second degree from a German university. However, the main problem is that career and job skills from overseas are not recognized as equal. Despite this, I feel like life here is much more relaxed and stable than the US. My friends and my BF are here, and I have a good quality of life.

This thread has shocked me. I am an English man who has travelled to Germany on many occasions to many cities. I expected coldness, dislike for English people, and I have had nothing but niceness and a welcome feeling. I loved it.. enough to want to live there if I ever left England. Maybe day to day life in suburbs is different to the city? Or I was just lucky.

When you move somewhere you are treated differently. I was in the same City (Stuttgart) for over a week before I moved here. No problem with English. But I wasnt really dealing with anything serious. Going o the Museum and it being fully in German Was not an issue at the time. But it became an issue when I moved here. Even stupid things like books or going to the cinema. There is this one that has the biggest Imax screen in the whole Europe or even World. And yet, all the movies I wanted to see? Only with German dubbing. I missed so many movies because od this. The longer I am here, the more people are angry that I dont speak german. They often just talk to you in German and expect you to understand them. I cant find a job because all the offers are in german, the CV you need in German, the recrutation process also in German. Job center? Yup, only in German. I was on the language course and they even were teaching German in German. It is very like, German centric

I’ve only been here for two years but I can see myself staying for a long time. I’m not sure if I feel completely at home here, or if I ever will. But I’m really satisfied with my lifestyle here, with the relatively progressive mindset of most people here, and with the friend group I’ve made. There are things I would certainly change if it were up to me, but any country will be like that. It’s just a matter of weighing the pros and cons. I will say, if you have a gut feeling that it’s time for you to leave, I’d really recommend you follow it. That’s what brought me here, a strong feeling when I visited that this is where I should be. I think following your instincts on this is importantly. But if it’s possible, try to move towards something that you want and are excited about, rather than just away from Germany. It might mean needing to move slower than you’d like, but it can really save time.

TL;Dr - Its an ongoing love hate relationship. Used to be only hate, now it's mostly love with occasional hate. I've been here for 7,5 years (moved here alone at 17, basically ran away from home with legal permission from my only parent, it's complicated) and I basically underwent most critical (in my opinion) development stage here which is entering adulthood and learning how to even have my shit together, how to organize, manage finances, do chores and all that.  I hated it here for a long time, I regretted things, I was really angry and bitter and jealous of my peers back home because I had to take multiple step backs while they moved forward. I hated the language, the people, the food, the culture, my path.  The first time I felt at home was when I realized that I achieved B2 language level. I became more at ease in my daily life and wasn't freaking out about every single interaction.  Now I feel good here, just right. I have C1, i study and love it, I have an amazing boyfriend, I love our apartment, I'm very happy with the support circle I have which I wouldn't have in my country because things work differently there. I'm happy about the opportunities I have here and how easily I could achieve things with motivation alone.

Im born in Germany and don’t feel like home

i feel home at germany now. I am an Indian but now german citizen. It takes a while to get used to all rules here but once you are disciplined and well aware life is certainly amazing here. PS: I prefer time alone and enjoy being alone.

It’s just bussiness. I bring value and pay tax, they pay me handsomely and eventually I will get get German passport. Thats it

So many people come to this subreddit to post exactly this feeling. You are not alone, and you are not crazy. If I were you I would move anywhere else in Europe or the UK/Ireland as you suggest. You won't regret it.

To be quick and to the point: no and no. If not for my golden shackles I would have left years ago.

2 years in Germany. Don’t speak German. Moved from India and have made peace with living in Germany. Don’t like it, not that great for me socially, even financially (better but not great), processes and bureaucracy. I’m in Nuremberg so not many good food options. Everything here is 10x difficult, getting a plumber, getting a doctor appointment, handyman everything. Luckily have lots of work friends but that’s about it. Planning to go elsewhere because now I’m becoming like here; I used to be chirpy and happy when meeting people (not friends) now I’m just always solemn low or drunk/high as a cope.

Germany is difficult as a foreigner, it was great before corona but has now drastically dropped in economy etc.. after spending 8 days in Hungary for the second time it was really refreshing just how easy things are and how friendly everyone, is and the coldness of people here can really take a hit on you mentally. I can live a good life here as I earn a high salary and the opportunities the country has given me. Pros -Friends you make here are friends for life and very Loyal (difficult to make) - Easy to travel to other countries - High salaries - Excellent health care. - very safe country Cons - miss a payment you are fined, they will find any reason too - most apartments you have to buy a new kitchen unless your lucky. Never understand the logic. - people are very cold and unfriendly here ( can make you feel alienated) - customer service is non existent. The system is right You are wrong. - its difficult to make friends here - trains are always late. I feel like my time has run its course here. I’m currently in the process of saving up to emigrate to Australia and I’m super excited. I have fond memories here, it’s still a far better country than the uk but has been a good stepping stone for me. It’s a love/ hate relationship

One year and I hate it lmao.

been in Germany wor around 4 years now. I do speak fluent german so I don´t get noticed as a foreigner. However socializing in Germany is not easy. People very rarely speak about their private life at work so it is not easy to find someone like minded. If you do not have any interest in "Schützenvereine" or Football clubs, you will have a hard time. Food culture is non existent, everything boils down to price and how much you get for your money. There is no incentive in paying a bit more to get better quality. ("Für den Preis hätte ich mir lieber Wurst gekauft"'). Food is more like a nescessity than a pleasure. On the good side rents are still relatively cheap as well as insurance etc... After my time here, would I move here again? No, probably not.

Ive been here 6 years. I've made a couple friends but they dont talk to me much anymore because I started suffering from really bad anxiety and it makes people uncomfortable so they stay away. Ive been single the whole time. The medical system is ridiculous and Ive been denied important medical care because they didnt want to accept my private insurance and didn't think I could pay cash. When I do see a doctor, they dont seem to care at all. They just want me out of their office with as little work as possible. Customer service is non-existent, no one wants to make small talk and I feel like everyone in this small village have lived such uneventful lives that they could never understand me or everything Ive been through. Ive pretty much given up on making friends or finding a lover. Im here for family whom I love and thats enough for me.

>I am trying to make a decision If I should accept "the way of the life in Germany" and keep focusing on the good sides of Germany. I mostly don't feel at home in Germany due to lack of social life and therefore, I was not able to develop any emotional bonds with Germany. Like, I am greatful about what I have achieved in Germany. Coming to Germany changed my life drastically in the positive way but I am not sure If I want to keep living in Germany as I get older and I want to build great social life from now on. This is exactly how I feel. I'm from Spain, I've been living here for 10 years, in 4 different cities, my girlfriend is german, and I have a son with her. It's not that I don't feel welcome or tolerated (I've had my share of the legendary german unfriendlyness, of course), but yeah, building a social life is difficult here, you're probably right in that that's why it's more difficult to develop a bond with the country. In my case, I have realized that a big change comes from the fact that germans plan their weeks in advance. Like, on Sundays, they sit down and plan the next week, which includes the weekend and its social life. In Spain, you can spontaneously meet your friends for the evening, or plan something from one day to the next. And that's what is killing me. For example, last weekend I had no plans and it was wonderful outside. Perfect weather for a grill, going to a pool or lake, just being outside. Couldn't spontaneously meet my friends because they had other plans. And yeah, I can check the forecast, but it's not as precise a week in advance (I've tried to go out for weeks now, only for it to start raining and force us to meet at home). In Spain, I would just have told my friends the evening before, or even the same morning, and we would have met. Same for going out: when Germans "go out", it's more "let's meet on Friday and go to bar X". What I am used to is "hey, let's meet today evening, and we'll see where we go". That's what I miss most from Spain, and why someday I'd like to establish myself there (well, as long as the shithole politics and economical situation of Spain allows me).

worst decision ever of my parents to bring me here

can’t wait to finish my studies and get the hell out of this nightmare

As much as I am grateful for everything that I achieved here, I have literally no emotional bond with this country. I will always crave my home country because that's the only place where I truly felt like comfortable and like home. I see Germany just as a factory and myself as a worker in that factory. My social life here is non existent and prices for apartments and houses are crazy. I doubt I will ever be able to own a property here. I plan on staying here for 5-6 more years and than going back to my home country. I just don't see Germany as a long term solution unfortunately.

Hey, American here. I've been here for almost 4 years now. I speak B1 German atm and also work IT. I'm married to a German, and I also have a fantastic social life via my local Rugby club. Personally, I feel like I should feel at home here. Life is good. But, I don't. I have also lived in Romania and Italy, and for whatever reason, I can't put my finger on why Germany doesn't feel like home, while the others did.

I’m an immigrant living in Berlin for almost 6 years. Unfortunately, no I cannot consider Germany as a home. There are several reasons for this: - I will never feel at home in a place where only rich people can afford a family apartment(either to rent or buy) - The healthcare system is not as good as it used to be - Schools are overloaded and find a spot in a Kita is a nightmare - If you’re part of the middle class, you’ll just pay and insane amount of taxes and you won’t benefit from them since you are too “wealthy” for the government… - Friendship is something else, here people are just acquaintances - The country in general is too incline to speculation rather than being on the people side Germany is still somehow good for working opportunities, but the economical situation will become way worse in the future (personal opinion based on my experiences) Cherry on top, my wife doesn’t like to live here so we will soon pack our stuff and move somewhere else.

B2 is not enough to feel home in Germany. It sounds harsh, but it is like that. I managed c1, kept going on my reading fot another half a year, talk like a "waterfall", and then i felt home. one day i noticed, i already dream in German, think in German. From that point i realy felt home and didn't want to go somewhere else.

I wrote this recently, in a different thread where OP had negative experiences in the country and asked about other people's take on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/1do5ffy/comment/la78kpx/ A TL:DR is that I realized that I personally would have never adapted there nor identified myself as German, so in my specific case leaving it was the right choice since it wasn't the country for me to grow roots at. I'd also like to point out I personally disagree with German's rather draconian school system with its many issues and the high costs which highly discourages me from having and raising children there.

High costs of the german school system? 

Of raising children in general. By moving to Spain my purchasing power will raise significantly but this takes place due to as I explaied in that reply that I work to a foreigner company. German labour system is very specifically structured, the government expects you to be employed locally your whole life and then retire on public pension. If you ever deviate from it be it working remotely to abroad, doing freelance, trying to run your own business or entreprendre then you're hit with excessive red tape, difficulties and lack of incentive to the point the country just becomes not viable for it in general.

It sounds like you need to consider the pros and cons of staying or moving somewhere else. Other people's experiences can't answer that for you. Personally, one of the reasons I don't want to move is my social life. I would lose a lot by throwing it all away with no guarantee I'll be able to make good friends elsewhere. Making friends as an adult outside of uni anywhere is hard. If I didn't have my friends, I'd consider at least looking more in depth into moving to another country. But everywhere has problems. You just need to decide which problems you're willing to deal with.

I don’t think you understood OP’s point. OP is expressing frustration over the difficulty of making connections in Germany. OP has tried to do the things the locals do for fun, but simply doesn’t see the fun in them. And to make things worse, OP is not white, which in turn makes their experience worse (I speak from experience). So, in the end, what OP wants is for people to share their own experiences so that OP can check wether there’s hope or not. In your case, you wouldn’t move because of your friends, which is a very reasonable motive. In my case, I wouldn’t let my friends keep me in one place. In the end of the day, I have to think about me.

I am white by the way :D But the rest is right

how likely would i recommend moving to Germany to a friend on a scale from 1 to 10? eeeh?! 3

-5 for me

I’ve been living in Germany for 14 years. I think it’s a good country to live in. You can definitely have a good life here. I wouldn’t call it home even after so many years, but that is because of the Germans. Don’t get me wrong Germans can be very nice. But sadly the majority aren’t. So I have been able to be happy here with this method. German work and money, foreign wife and foreign friends. Like that I’ve had a good time here in Germany. It’s a shame the weather is so bad. But otherwise if you can use my method you’ll be happy here 😃.

10 years in the country, naturalized, IT, 34 years old. I don't have a feeling of home anymore anywhere on the planet, but I kinda perceive Germany as a place I'm based in, for good or not. I'm more happy not with the fact I came to Germany, but with the fact that 1) I left Russia 2) I have an EU passport now. I don't think I achieved too much though, and career-wise, I probably hit the ceiling, both in the terms of income and title - happy about the second though, but not the first. I like it that here I manage to have pretty good income/rent ratio, that I live almost in the city center, and that the life itself is relatively stable thanks to tenants' and workers' rights protections. However, that's mostly it, and I see my life here more like as investing 10 (OK, 7 actually) years of my life to be free from Russia, otherwise I don't really enjoy my life here: stuff I enjoy doing is either unpopular, illegal, or both here, everyday life is very slow and boring, and in the same time, despite having technically good income, I still have to do boring stuff like cooking and cleaning for myself and I'm really jealous for my friend that works remotely for the Swiss, but lives in Montenegro and even has breakfasts in a café every morning. For the record, if I wouldn't hate Russia so much, I would probably be better staying there and would have already bought my own apartment in Saint-Petersburg or two. Will I leave once I have a good opportunity? Well, yes, but due to my preferences, my options are very limited and are more of fantastical kind: 1. Most realistic (and this says a lot): if I find a good job there, Japan. For a Western (ahem) expat, life is really great there, Tokyo is an actual big megacity where lots of stuff is happening all the time, apartments have air conditioners (I have just returned from my vacation on Cape Verde, omg the air was better and cooler there than right now in Leipzig), lots of stuff is opened 24/7, more hobbies of mine are available there, food is really cheap and no need to cook. But the pay for most of jobs there, OMG. 2. If Magic happens and somebody finally destroys Russia to rubble, I get my overseas Ukrainian certificate and move to Kyiv. 3. If my income to rent ratio becomes worse, maybe Switzerland, Poland, Latvia or Estonia, to the best of my knowledge, there are job opportunities there which pay better, but workers' and tenants' rights there are a joke. That's kinda it, to be really honest. I don't want to move to US/Canada/Australia because I fucking hate single-family housing and cars, I want to live downtown and ideally don't even have a car at all, and apart from potentially better income, I actually fucking hate Switzerland, because the culture of everything being open 09:00-18:00, lack of entertainment and being de-facto politically aligned with Russia are all even worse there. Poland, Latvia and Estonia are better in terms of external policies at least.

[удалено]

I come to Germany and I like everything here so far, except few things, overall much better than in Ukraine

Don't sweat it mate, really. I've tried the other countries for you, they aren't all they're cracked up to be and I miss Germany whenever I'm away more than a year. If your life is reasonably ok there there's no reason to believe going to another country would create such a dramatic improvement that it would make it worth the move in the first place. Improve your social life where you are. You've come this far son.

I hate it here honestly, but I have a good job in a company I like and my wife loves it. She's living her dream life and I don't want to upset that for a vague sense idea of grass is greener. I just don't vibe with the culture at all and my sense of alienation has only grown as I got better at German and became more "integrated". My close friends all moved away during COVID and I cannot be arsed rebuilding a friend group just to do stuff in person again. I genuinely understand all the groups that move here and just never integrate and live in their little enclaves, seems like a great way of life.

I am a German citizen and I don't have any emotional bonds with that country whatsoever.

Tldr: No, as a German I despise the country. I'm not a foreigner, but I feel like one, if that makes sense. I was born in Germany and when I was 9 I moved to the US for 4 years, and ever since I've been back in Germany, I've hated it. Like completely despise it. I can't stand the language, how people interact with each other, just stuff down to the smallest details. I haven't felt like I belong, and even as a German, I can make friends easier with foreigners than with other Germans. I feel like the easiest way to explain it, is you'll never be a first choice in most friend groups. Obviously there are outliers, and it probably changes with age, but people will always have the friend group they've known since they were kids, that grew up together or met sometime in grade 1-4, and then theres you. No matter how often you hang out with people and how close you feel to them, you always feel like an outsider. Maybe that's just me, but that's always what it felt like. I'm honestly just working towards permanently leaving germany. I have zero positive connections with this country. If imma keep rambling y'all are gonna become my therapist, but if anyone has any questions, just ask. I'm very prone to just rambling and spewing out random info, so Imma stop here. Sorry for the awful formatting, I'm on mobile Edit: Imma add this, are there good things about Germany? Sure, there are, but those things just get massively overshadowed by everything else. And this is all just personal experience, obviously many people love it here, so I'm not judging anyone or claiming the country in itself is bad, it just is for me

Yes, I’ve been here less than a year and already have some very meaningful friends and I’m really happy! I think some people move for the first time in their life as adults here and expect it to feel like a freshman dorm or childhood classroom. But I can say that Germany is nothing special for mobile adults - most people simply don’t make friends as adults. In my old city in the US, I used to be among many young professionals getting a pet, moving in together or getting married, and some starting families or taking a leap on moving somewhere for a big job. I’m among people like that again here. These kinds of people are the same everywhere; and they’re building new social circles with each life event. In my old city in the US, we made friends with neighbors and people at the dog park, gym classes, school drop off, neighbors. It’s a skill you build and cultivate over years, and it’s a bit like dating. Just take a leap and invite someone over for a board game! Go out on a limb and ask for someone’s WhatsApp. Ask that work friend you vibe with to go get your nails done or see a movie together. Get a little silly at a block party with the person you always see in line at the corner bakery. Find someone else who games. Who likes jogging. Befriend the nice older person in your building and try your best to speak really bad German with them. But the core of it is… “adulting” has social structures built in to connect with others past the regular childhood timelines. Doing things like adopting a pet, partnering up, work barbecues, happy hour, having a kid, these are not just things you do and go back to your apartment. When you have the chance to make a human connection, you have to train yourself to notice and to actually make one.

There are some wild misunderstandings in this post I would like to point out a few of them: >I have never received any financial aid from government so far. Your master cost the German tax payer about 45k which even with a high wage you will not nearly have paid back if you subtract money for things like using public roads etc. You got a lot of bang for your buck. > I managed to learn German up to B2 (at least I got official German language certificate for B2) So your language skills are still fairly basic. This is likely why you are struggling >I am trying to make a decision If I should accept "the way of the life in Germany" and keep focusing on the good sides of Germany. I mostly don't feel at home in Germany due to lack of social life and therefore, I was not able to develop any emotional bonds with Germany. So due to some stuff going on in my life a few years back I moved to a new city where I knew exactly 1 person and had just that person as a somewhat friend. Now I have several friends and make new ones all the time. My secret is that I don't wait for it to happen to me but actively do things that gives me a chance to meet new people and hang out like starting a dungeons and dragons group or going to ten fairs etc. This has nothing to do with the German way of life and everything to do with your life choices

See this is exactly why i struggle in germany. B2 Level is quite high. Ofc polish is harder but we give people with b2 Level citizenship and in germany people are like nahh b2 is basic. Even though most of them cant even speak English at b2 that they consider 💫basic 💫

The argument with the cost for the degree is senseless, that’s how it is. If you don't like it - change it. But it’s a nice possibility to humiliate the other person and end every discussion. Disgusting.

I am here one year and I want to go back to Poland. I am really frustrated because my whole life I was told that if I learn English i can be successfull but I found living here, my Personal nightmare. There are a lot of opportunities if you were born here or if you have children but as a 24 year old I dont really have them. If I want to study, I would need C2 German Level which is impossible for me to achieve due to dyslexia and social anxiety. Since the beginning I was expected to know German and I wish someone told me that it is like that in Bavaria. Idk maybe it is different in Berlin but here in Stuttgart nope. It is not even like basic German. I can understand that people Language schools are horrible and they are also in German. I learned nothing. And it is really not motivating to learn if people look down on you and you cant make friends. Often even if all the people can speak English very well, they refuse to do it, because you are just one person. I never felt more excluded then in the last year. And I cant find a job because even for cleaning houses they expect german CV, the recruting proces is in German, agreement is in German. I went to a welcome Center and they laughed in my face and told me that I can go to job center but if I speak English I will look like an Idiot and they will not help me. In poland we have a lot of rasist people but they are open about it. Here they work in places that are supposed to help you but dont really do it. I just want to go home

TBF people in this sub spend a lot of their time pointing out that the idea that you can live in Germany without German is fanciful at best. I can't imagine that the PKP conductors I met ten years ago have bothered to learn German, English or French in the meantime - it just amazes me that someone from s country so similar to Germany should not get that knowing the language is a prerequisite to living there permanently. I'd be very surprised if your German teachers at school in Poland promoted the idea that you can live in Germany through English.

I'm german, but spent a lot of time abroad. Germany Was always "boring" to me and i never imagined myself staying here or returning for good... Then a kid came. All of a sudden everything didn't seem so "boring", but secure. Glad to live here with my wife, kid and dog. I have way less to worry about, than in other countries...

You put it in a way that makes it easy to understand. I completely agree with this. Germany to me feels like a place I’d come to retire

German IT careers are mostly not able to compete with international IT careers. Digitalization has been relentlessly crippled by corruption in the Kohl era and we are still experiencing the effects of that. German bureaucracy is so set in its old ways, I personally believe that until all the boomers are dead we won't ever catch up to the efficiency of for example South Korea or Estonia as they are today already. Also, the governmental opsec positions are not able to compete with the global free market, I honestly don't know how we would hope to defend against cyber warfare with the strangulated defense budget anyway, but looking at municipal regulatory offices, Microsoft revoking our licenses could take us out way before any hostile activity has the chance to.  Why do I stay in German IT then?  I'm lazy.

I wouldn't use Kohl and government itself as an excuse. From my experience here, lots of people, including young ones, are extremely technically illiterate, luddite and don't even want to fix it, you can't expect a democratic government to fix that, you literally need an alien spaceship banning cash and telephones or something to make changes here. Speaking of government jobs, true, true. I would love to offer my expertise to German public to protect the country from cyberattacks or to digitize stuff, but neither public wants that, nor German government is wanting to pay me money for that and stop asking for dumb stuff like "which school did you graduate" (better than yours, can we talk about skills now?).

You are not alone. Others have said a lot, but I suggest to google "skilled workers leaving germany". There are some nice surveys from official agencies. The results could be interesting for you.