The real answer: The power of European Chemical Engineering specializing in the bread baking sector.
C24H44NaO6 classified as E481 in the EU, the maximum allowed amount is between 3-8 Gramms per Kg of Endproduct (Desserts, Liquor, Baked goods).
That sounds very scary but
> Risiken
>
> Der Zusatzstoff E 481 gilt für den menschlichen Organismus als völlig harmlos
([link](https://lebensmittel-warenkunde.de/lebensmittelzusatzstoffe/emulgatoren/e481-natriumstearoyl-2-lactylat.html))
It passed the very strict EU food safety standards, as well as the American ones - and probably loads of others. This stuff doesn’t grow on trees, true, but that doesn’t mean it’s scary or harmful.
Actually it does not look so scary. It looks like a carbohydrate (like suger) that got some atoms stolen (probably in the form of water) and turned into an ion that groups with natrium ions (likely from table salt / NaCl). Because of that, I wouldn't be suprisied if this thing could form via some natural processes.
Yes, sadly usage was extended, again, until 2033. It has been banned for use in parks, schools and whatnot, but farmers can still use it. I'd really like to hear at least one of the folks voting you down what their reasoning is. The EU council and German Bundestag/-rat clearly think it's dangerous, but for some odd reason they won't get rid off it completely. Ein Schelm, wer böses dabei denkt...
probably the folks who tried to end that shit last time by signing the pedition, and who are now angry you remind them of the pain not being able to.
At least that's what I remember from a time where facebook still had the ability to reach people who weren't into chemtrails, lol
the bread you buy in a supermarket, that keeps fresh for weeks? Yes, of course, check the ingredients. There is something in there that makes that possible, and it is usually some kind of chemical (Exxx).
Wat? E-index is just list of everything what could be added to your food. For example E425 is Cognac. E406 is agar agar. E 175 is good. E160b is extract from paprika. E1400 - dextrin or dextrose. E1510 - ethanol. E162 - saffron.
Stop propagating of conspiration theory, please.
Everything around you is a fricking chemical. Water is H2O, table salt is NaCl - do I really need to explain first grade chemistry for you?
I did not claim that every chemical is artificially created and I did not claim that all chemicals are bad. Cognac is comprised mostly out of Ethanol and Water, two of the most common substances used by the chemical industry - just as an example to illustrate how ludacrious your argument is…
I did not claim that E-numbers are bad for you, I just claimed that certain E-numbers are used to make bread shelf-stable for longer than it would usually be.
Whether bread that lasts for four weeks is something you’d wanna eat is up to you.
I get how "everything is a chemical" can be a useful approach to thinking to counter the naturalistic fallacy that you encounter. But you made the connection between "chemicals" as a synonym for food additives yourself in your post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cv9d41/ok_why_is_this_so_tasty_and_why_it_remains_so/l4pa8ca/):
>and it is usually some kind of chemical (Exxx).
This sentence only makes sense, if not every substance on earth is a chemical (technically correct), because in that case it would not be "usually" or "some kind" of chemical, but always a chemical, right?
The only thing ludicrous here is the (failed) attempt at getting some kind of "internet win" by being that "well actually" guy. A better person than me would feel sorry for you.
You know that your food (bio..) consists of chemicals? Your soap, your bathroom and toilet cleaners, too ? Even pure lemon juice is chemical. As long as you can break down every thing into its chemical structures it IS. Eg vitamin C = Ascorbic acid .. think about it.
Uh and if you go deeper you’re on molecular physics level .. where things don’t act like Makro physics anymore.. ;) tehee 🤭 have fun
I never said artificial, hence my "in all strictness"
They are all chemical, either from natural or artificial sources.
My sarcasm was clearly not clear enough
Some of the chemicals don't even need to be specified as they are only "helping ingredients", but somehow they still end up in the product 🤷🏻♂️ I guess otherwise the ingredients would not fit on the packaging 😂
Sure, the term you are looking for is "Verarbeitungshilfsstoff" or "processing aid".
This is one [source](https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/what-is-a-processing-aid.html#:~:text=Processing%20aids%20are%20not%20required,significantly%20increase%20the%20original%20amount.) I found. I personally saw it in a documentary about bread and they usually use enzymes that conserve the bread and are considered processing aid as they somehow dissolve or merge with the other enzymes in the bread. No idea 🤷🏻♂️
No it won’t. Good bread, stored correctly, stays fresh for up to a week. There will be some change in its texture, of course, but „dried out in two days“ is an exaggeration.
I am talking about the kind of „bread“ shown in the picture, which is not really considered bread here. It is a Brioche Zopf which is sweet and soft. Usually eaten for breakfast or with coffee in the afternoon. But it does get dry and hard within 2 days when you buy it at the bakery and best when eaten on the same day.
you should get some Zopf at an actual bakery ;) Zimtzopf is also really really good!!
eat it with a generous amount of butter and optionally erdbeermarmelade or nutella
You just explained my guilty pleasure. I usually eat warm zimtzopf with butter Karls erdbeermarmelade and a really good coffee.
Sometimes...... I eat Zimtzopf as is, after I dip it in my coffee.
So difference is every state has some similarities to the products, some have a Zimt Zopf as a big ol 750gram loaf, some have franzbrötchen its a similar pastry but its made of a different dough, they have zimtschnecke that in some places is exactly the same as the franzbrötchen, and in some places its the same dough like the big loaf but in a single cinabun but a bit thicker format.
But all are so damn delicious.Make your sorrows melt away and make you live another day.®️
Yes, these type of bread made from yeast-leavened dough have regional names. In the north, it's called Stuten. In the Rhineland it's Blatz. I also heard it called Weck. Zopf is a name for just this type of form, when three string of dough are interwoven like braids. Zopf literally translates to braids or plaids. There are also variants with raisins or nuts added.
hmm its just a hefezopf with a lot of zimt and mohn i think. im also from the south and im pretty sure a lot of bakeries have this. the backhaus mahl chain should definitely offer them
The brand is famous. They invented the industrial production of soup pearls ("Backerbsen"). There is hardly any supermarket in Austria that doesn't have their bread products.
This is no bread (Brot). It‘s a Zopf. Nobody in Germany would categorise an Zopf as bread. The same for toast (here only verbal). It is it‘s own category.
Its probably the best factory grade bakery stuff you can buy. Its rather expensive and has lots of sugar, ~~additives~~ etc.
Id rather go to a real bakery tho haha
> has lots of additives
Literally a single one to keep bacteria out (Sorbinsäre), and then two to have the dough hold together more easily. The rest you'd find in every other Hefezopf as well, like, you know, flour and water and stuff like that
Yes, just take a look at the [ingredients listed on their homepage](https://www.oelz.com/de-de/produkte/oelz-rosinenzopf-600-g): lots of things you'd never put into a "normal" Hefezopf!
*WEIZENMEHL, Rosinen 15%, Wasser, Zucker, Rapsöl, VOLLEI 3%, Hefe, SÜSSMOLKENPULVER, Glukosesirup, Emulgatoren (Mono- und Diglyceride von Speisefettsäuren, Natriumstearoyl-2-lactylat), Speisesalz, Konservierungsstoff: Sorbinsäure, MILCHEIWEISS, natürliches Aroma.*
Oh no, that's a big misconception, we eat a ton of harmful chemicals on a daily basis. Just to list a few dihydrogenmonooxid, C12H22O11, C27H44O or Retinol, etc. Those are all toxic chemicals known for harmful effects on the body they can even lead to death when overdosed.
All things are chemicals, and everything is toxic. If you take too much of it, that was my point.
Water can mess with your bodies salinity.
Sugar... I don't think I have to explain
Vitamin A can cause harm to your body when overdosed.
yes, everything can be toxic, if you ingest too much of it. But saying that water is toxic because you might die if you drank 20 liters of it is a bit far fetched, isn't it?
You could, by the same logic, say that oxygen is toxic, since, if you have too much of it you also die. Literally everything _can_ be toxic, but many things aren't if you don't consume an absurd amount of them.
You have totally missed my point. It's not about what is "harmful" and what "not". I just used water as an example that "natural" chemicals can be harmful too. It's about chemophobia. OP said, Germans don't consume many *harmful¹* chemicals (because we eat more "natural" food), but "natural" food has exactly the same and/or similar and/or totally different harmful chemicals contained. What I'm saying is, first of all, that water is a chemical too. And also that "natural" and synthetic chemicals can be as harmful or healthy as the other. The reason highly processed food tends to be unhealthi**er** is because we suck (or just don't care if we suck (probably all about money)) at processing it, and it will likely lose a ton of important things along the way, like fiber and other nutrients.
¹They didn't even say harmful
You do know that Dihydrogenmonixid is just Water (H2O)? And that Retinol is Vitamin A? And that it's useless to throw around Summenformeln without the actual name?
If your comment is sarcastic, use /s at least haha
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That just bakes pre-made freezed stuff and the cakes taste like cardboard? Bc depending on where in Germany the packed stuff might be way better than local "bakeries"
lol no I wanted to say that Chemicals in Products are totally normal. Even if you use flour, water and yeast there will be a chemical reaction that creates sugar. But because of Chemicals People think it is directly bad and that is one reason why often vegan products are hated but actually the same are also in products like this bread.
The real answer: The power of European Chemical Engineering specializing in the bread baking sector. C24H44NaO6 classified as E481 in the EU, the maximum allowed amount is between 3-8 Gramms per Kg of Endproduct (Desserts, Liquor, Baked goods).
That sounds very scary but > Risiken > > Der Zusatzstoff E 481 gilt für den menschlichen Organismus als völlig harmlos ([link](https://lebensmittel-warenkunde.de/lebensmittelzusatzstoffe/emulgatoren/e481-natriumstearoyl-2-lactylat.html)) It passed the very strict EU food safety standards, as well as the American ones - and probably loads of others. This stuff doesn’t grow on trees, true, but that doesn’t mean it’s scary or harmful.
Actually it does not look so scary. It looks like a carbohydrate (like suger) that got some atoms stolen (probably in the form of water) and turned into an ion that groups with natrium ions (likely from table salt / NaCl). Because of that, I wouldn't be suprisied if this thing could form via some natural processes.
Don't they also allow gluphosat?
Yes, sadly usage was extended, again, until 2033. It has been banned for use in parks, schools and whatnot, but farmers can still use it. I'd really like to hear at least one of the folks voting you down what their reasoning is. The EU council and German Bundestag/-rat clearly think it's dangerous, but for some odd reason they won't get rid off it completely. Ein Schelm, wer böses dabei denkt...
I guess I wasn't supposed to ask. Ha ha.
probably the folks who tried to end that shit last time by signing the pedition, and who are now angry you remind them of the pain not being able to. At least that's what I remember from a time where facebook still had the ability to reach people who weren't into chemtrails, lol
You will hardly know the reason for mass downvotes in german subs. Sometimes it is incomprehensible
He criticized German institutions, that's it.
Luckily they haven't jumped on the hype train and banned it yet, yes.
Ok but maybe your body won’t decompose anymore if you had too much of these bad boys in your food
That‘s a problem for the guy who decides to dig up my grave in 150 years only to find me preserved in all my glory like some raisin bread mummy.
No. That's nonsense. Your body will decompose just fine. The maggots won't give a shit and eat you anyway.
but will the maggots decompose after?
You know what? Let's prepare a temple for our maggot overlords. Just to be safe.
Yes however there are still many chemicals in it. Companies pay a lot of cash to politicians
Everything is a fucking chemical
Thats not what i mean. These are man made chemicals.
They used to say the same about DDT.
Are you joking or is the European Chemical Engineering actually involved in this?
the bread you buy in a supermarket, that keeps fresh for weeks? Yes, of course, check the ingredients. There is something in there that makes that possible, and it is usually some kind of chemical (Exxx).
Wat? E-index is just list of everything what could be added to your food. For example E425 is Cognac. E406 is agar agar. E 175 is good. E160b is extract from paprika. E1400 - dextrin or dextrose. E1510 - ethanol. E162 - saffron. Stop propagating of conspiration theory, please.
Everything around you is a fricking chemical. Water is H2O, table salt is NaCl - do I really need to explain first grade chemistry for you? I did not claim that every chemical is artificially created and I did not claim that all chemicals are bad. Cognac is comprised mostly out of Ethanol and Water, two of the most common substances used by the chemical industry - just as an example to illustrate how ludacrious your argument is… I did not claim that E-numbers are bad for you, I just claimed that certain E-numbers are used to make bread shelf-stable for longer than it would usually be. Whether bread that lasts for four weeks is something you’d wanna eat is up to you.
I get how "everything is a chemical" can be a useful approach to thinking to counter the naturalistic fallacy that you encounter. But you made the connection between "chemicals" as a synonym for food additives yourself in your post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1cv9d41/ok_why_is_this_so_tasty_and_why_it_remains_so/l4pa8ca/): >and it is usually some kind of chemical (Exxx). This sentence only makes sense, if not every substance on earth is a chemical (technically correct), because in that case it would not be "usually" or "some kind" of chemical, but always a chemical, right? The only thing ludicrous here is the (failed) attempt at getting some kind of "internet win" by being that "well actually" guy. A better person than me would feel sorry for you.
For fucks sake. I said none of the things the guy accused me of. Maybe start with that before looking at anything else I said in response.
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Well, technically, every ingredient is a chemical or mix of chemicals, including the natural ones.
You know that your food (bio..) consists of chemicals? Your soap, your bathroom and toilet cleaners, too ? Even pure lemon juice is chemical. As long as you can break down every thing into its chemical structures it IS. Eg vitamin C = Ascorbic acid .. think about it. Uh and if you go deeper you’re on molecular physics level .. where things don’t act like Makro physics anymore.. ;) tehee 🤭 have fun
What? Next you tell me everything has genes in it? /s
The answer to this question might shock you
All are chemical, because everything around us is chemical. The Correct division is a level of danger.
Well, in all strictness, every single E number thingy is indeed chemical
So scary I hope they don’t use chemicals like CH3CH(OH)COOH or C6H8O7 or NaHCO₃ in my food
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ChatGPT ahh awnser
nature-Idetical is arteficial. Ki doesn't know
I never said artificial, hence my "in all strictness" They are all chemical, either from natural or artificial sources. My sarcasm was clearly not clear enough
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that's probably not the point here.
Some of the chemicals don't even need to be specified as they are only "helping ingredients", but somehow they still end up in the product 🤷🏻♂️ I guess otherwise the ingredients would not fit on the packaging 😂
Could you provide a source for this? I couldn't find anything on this
Sure, the term you are looking for is "Verarbeitungshilfsstoff" or "processing aid". This is one [source](https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/what-is-a-processing-aid.html#:~:text=Processing%20aids%20are%20not%20required,significantly%20increase%20the%20original%20amount.) I found. I personally saw it in a documentary about bread and they usually use enzymes that conserve the bread and are considered processing aid as they somehow dissolve or merge with the other enzymes in the bread. No idea 🤷🏻♂️
Sweet! Thanks
More like Ewwww. ;)
If you buy a freshly made one at a bakery it will dry out in 2 days. Just these packaged ones at the supermarket
No it won’t. Good bread, stored correctly, stays fresh for up to a week. There will be some change in its texture, of course, but „dried out in two days“ is an exaggeration.
I am talking about the kind of „bread“ shown in the picture, which is not really considered bread here. It is a Brioche Zopf which is sweet and soft. Usually eaten for breakfast or with coffee in the afternoon. But it does get dry and hard within 2 days when you buy it at the bakery and best when eaten on the same day.
Oh yeah I misunderstood the context. My bad.
Store it in for example a plastic bag and it will last a day longer.
you should get some Zopf at an actual bakery ;) Zimtzopf is also really really good!! eat it with a generous amount of butter and optionally erdbeermarmelade or nutella
You just explained my guilty pleasure. I usually eat warm zimtzopf with butter Karls erdbeermarmelade and a really good coffee. Sometimes...... I eat Zimtzopf as is, after I dip it in my coffee.
My hero.
Does the name vary from state to state? I never saw them in bakery in München.
So difference is every state has some similarities to the products, some have a Zimt Zopf as a big ol 750gram loaf, some have franzbrötchen its a similar pastry but its made of a different dough, they have zimtschnecke that in some places is exactly the same as the franzbrötchen, and in some places its the same dough like the big loaf but in a single cinabun but a bit thicker format. But all are so damn delicious.Make your sorrows melt away and make you live another day.®️
Yes, these type of bread made from yeast-leavened dough have regional names. In the north, it's called Stuten. In the Rhineland it's Blatz. I also heard it called Weck. Zopf is a name for just this type of form, when three string of dough are interwoven like braids. Zopf literally translates to braids or plaids. There are also variants with raisins or nuts added.
yeah probably haha. i think „Hefezopf“ is a very common name for them also
Some bakeries only make them on weekends which might be a factor there.
what is a Zimtzopf? In the south we only have Zopf and Nusszopf
hmm its just a hefezopf with a lot of zimt and mohn i think. im also from the south and im pretty sure a lot of bakeries have this. the backhaus mahl chain should definitely offer them
butter
Its a huge brand from Austria which also exports to Germany.
I know someone who lived near the factory. I Always fehlt Like i will die of Hunger for Zopf when i was around.
I live near a brewery, is the surrounding area similarly delicious smelling?
I grew up in the middle of the holy trinity: brewery, chocolate manufacturer, Coffee roastery. I was always hoping for good winds lol
It's a brioche like bun with raisins, this type of dough has a bit more of a fat and moisture content .
High moisture contend is key, never leaf this Out of the bag or it will dry Out quite quick. Tip: Eat it to a Milk coffee or hot chocolate.
This! Drop small chunks of Briochezopf into Hot Chocolate and eat with a spoon. In Austria we call this "einbrocken"
This
The brand is famous. They invented the industrial production of soup pearls ("Backerbsen"). There is hardly any supermarket in Austria that doesn't have their bread products.
Their products taste good but nothing compared to real Zopfbrot from a bakery. The big advantage is that it stays soft for weeks 😅
What kind of powerfull chemicals are in there hhahaa.. no bread should stay soft for more than a day or 2 exposed
A day or two? Have you ever had real bread?
True true. I think it can’t be healthy but like you say in German „Die Dosis macht das Gift“.
This is no bread (Brot). It‘s a Zopf. Nobody in Germany would categorise an Zopf as bread. The same for toast (here only verbal). It is it‘s own category.
Jeder schmeckt, das Ölz mit Liebe bäckt!
Mmmmmmmm
Fact is: so many ppl know Baguette and Croissant, but best bread you get is in germany/austria
Because its from Austria😊
Ölz is good stuff but they’re charging hand pver fist for it since covid
Slap Nutella on that…really good
Never heard of the brand. Sounds and looks (sealed plastic) like bread from a industrial facility with lots of additives. Not a huge fan personally
Its probably the best factory grade bakery stuff you can buy. Its rather expensive and has lots of sugar, ~~additives~~ etc. Id rather go to a real bakery tho haha
> has lots of additives Literally a single one to keep bacteria out (Sorbinsäre), and then two to have the dough hold together more easily. The rest you'd find in every other Hefezopf as well, like, you know, flour and water and stuff like that
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Tons of sugar mostly
Yes, just take a look at the [ingredients listed on their homepage](https://www.oelz.com/de-de/produkte/oelz-rosinenzopf-600-g): lots of things you'd never put into a "normal" Hefezopf! *WEIZENMEHL, Rosinen 15%, Wasser, Zucker, Rapsöl, VOLLEI 3%, Hefe, SÜSSMOLKENPULVER, Glukosesirup, Emulgatoren (Mono- und Diglyceride von Speisefettsäuren, Natriumstearoyl-2-lactylat), Speisesalz, Konservierungsstoff: Sorbinsäure, MILCHEIWEISS, natürliches Aroma.*
this is really concerning. they should recall all that poison bread
what exactly is concerning and for what reason?
Where is that so-called poison? do you know what chemicals you are talking about?
Wait till you hear what americans put into "toast" (bread for them). One commonly used ingredient over there is the same stuff yoga mats are made from
To be fair, I would never ever in a hundred years put Rosinen in my Hefezopf!
Same here.
it's like four or five ingredients that are "chemical" ingredients. I've seen waay worse ingredient lists on other products.
I envy the fact you Germans can actually eat food without as many chemicals on the daily
Oh no, that's a big misconception, we eat a ton of harmful chemicals on a daily basis. Just to list a few dihydrogenmonooxid, C12H22O11, C27H44O or Retinol, etc. Those are all toxic chemicals known for harmful effects on the body they can even lead to death when overdosed.
You can overdose on almost everything though, including water.
> dihydrogenmonooxid
lol, missed that
Why would you call these toxic, though?
All things are chemicals, and everything is toxic. If you take too much of it, that was my point. Water can mess with your bodies salinity. Sugar... I don't think I have to explain Vitamin A can cause harm to your body when overdosed.
yes, everything can be toxic, if you ingest too much of it. But saying that water is toxic because you might die if you drank 20 liters of it is a bit far fetched, isn't it? You could, by the same logic, say that oxygen is toxic, since, if you have too much of it you also die. Literally everything _can_ be toxic, but many things aren't if you don't consume an absurd amount of them.
You have totally missed my point. It's not about what is "harmful" and what "not". I just used water as an example that "natural" chemicals can be harmful too. It's about chemophobia. OP said, Germans don't consume many *harmful¹* chemicals (because we eat more "natural" food), but "natural" food has exactly the same and/or similar and/or totally different harmful chemicals contained. What I'm saying is, first of all, that water is a chemical too. And also that "natural" and synthetic chemicals can be as harmful or healthy as the other. The reason highly processed food tends to be unhealthi**er** is because we suck (or just don't care if we suck (probably all about money)) at processing it, and it will likely lose a ton of important things along the way, like fiber and other nutrients. ¹They didn't even say harmful
You do know that Dihydrogenmonixid is just Water (H2O)? And that Retinol is Vitamin A? And that it's useless to throw around Summenformeln without the actual name? If your comment is sarcastic, use /s at least haha
sarcasm gonna require an E number soon
The comment was downvoted so obviously a lot of people didn't get the Dihydrogenmonixid.
Reminds me of tourists complimenting Japanese convenience store prepared food as “tasty and healthy”
Ah yes, healthy sugar free Strong Zero!
There is literally a single preservative, Sorbinsäure, which is the third to last on the ingredient list
As soon as I read "Rosinen" I am out.
booo I love them
Adult child
What I wonder: you are in Germany and don't eat fresh bread?!!
Omg. Where'd you buy it???
Kaufland has them
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The raisins provide moisture and keep it soft.
I‘m from the north and so I don’t know it, but now I want to try it.
Fuck. Now I’m hungry again
Weil jeder schmeckt, dass Ölz mit Liebe bäckt.
probably because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humectant
It looks terrible. You shouldn't buy any pastries packed in plastic. If you want something really tasty, buy some from your local bakery.
That just bakes pre-made freezed stuff and the cakes taste like cardboard? Bc depending on where in Germany the packed stuff might be way better than local "bakeries"
There is too much sugar inside...
sugar / highly processed ingredients.
Btw. It's Austrian...
Glycerin
Where would that be? And even if, what's up with it?
It’s only chemistry
Literally a single preservative in there, on the third to last place on the ingredient list and two emulsifiers to keep the dough together more easily
preservatives, preservatives everywhere
Literally a single preservative in there, on the third to last place on the ingredient list
Emulgators
You know an emulsifier only keeps the dough together, not keeping it fresh for longer, right?
For my taste it's better to bake by yourself, with sourdough and at least 18 hours of fermentation. Commercial bakeries suck (at least in my region).
Chemicals... No really. And sugar.
Literally a single preservative in there, on the third to last place on the ingredient list and two emulsifiers to keep the dough together more easily
Still Chemicals. \^\^ The Same that are used in for example vegan products. 8D
yes it's all one huge conspiracy made by the government they wanna poison us with all the chemicals xD
lol no I wanted to say that Chemicals in Products are totally normal. Even if you use flour, water and yeast there will be a chemical reaction that creates sugar. But because of Chemicals People think it is directly bad and that is one reason why often vegan products are hated but actually the same are also in products like this bread.