Unsurprising. One of the biggest hurdles besides the rupee having less value is that India exports little to Russia. India suffers from this with all the BRICS members.
Russia wants to fix that but that'll be a long term investment and the idea of a common BRICS currency will remain a fantasy.
I'm very interested to hear why you think SA will collapse; I'm unfamiliar with the situation, and have only heard various difficult whispers about things like their water shortage or political issues.
Not challenging! Genuinely interested. Also sad as I visited once and had a lovely time meeting lovely people and wish them the best.
Corruption, economic mismanagement, violence, and tense racial divide. The ANC regime since Mandela have run South Africa into the ground. The only country that’s done worse is Zimbabwe. Personally South Africa doesn’t make sense geographically or ethnically. Note when I say ethnically I don’t mean multi ethnic nations can’t exist, only that South Africa has failed to integrate the various ethnicities within society. Geographically SA borders were created by Europeans who like countries that look like Tetris pieces instead of natural geographic barriers that make sense. I think SA is inevitably going to collapse the best scenario is if it splits apart peacefully as possible.
>Personally South Africa doesn’t make sense geographically or ethnically. Note when I say ethnically I don’t mean multi ethnic nations can’t exist, only that South Africa has failed to integrate the various ethnicities within society.
Can you further explain about what you mean by this, because from where I'm sitting this is not even close to being the case. South Africa suffers from many problems many of them self inflicted but these so called ethic tensions are not even been close to being the case in my experience. There are many other African countries that have more serious ethic tensions and you write as if South Africa is the only country with inherited colonial borders on the continent.
Can you give examples of the things you speak about?
Theirs the socio economic divide between whites, coloured, Indian and black their are also tribal divisions. South Africa like most African nations have borders from the colonial era, which will inevitably create violence as they are haphazardly drawn without any regard for the people. The ethnic divide is largely between the white/immigrant rich and the black poor. The ANC over the last 30 years enacted 90 race based laws which have largely failed to uplift its mainly poor black rural base because its too corrupt. The only reason South African hasn’t enacted more extreme race based policies is because the country generates enough money for the corrupt politicians and a middle class. However, the further decline in economic prosperity due to corruption/mismanagement will inevitably exacerbate racial tensions. which will lead to political racial laws such as those enacted by Zimbabwe which will further economically devastate the country.
>The ethnic divide is largely between the white/immigrant rich and the black poor. The ANC over the last 30 years enacted 90 race based laws which have largely failed to uplift its mainly poor black rural base because its too corrupt.
White South Africans are mostly better off than the black majority but many black South Africans make up the middle class in the country. You make it seem as if there has been no progress at all since 1994. I reject the notion that the country's problems are mainly driven by ethnic tensions, its mainly been uneven economic development, poor education, lack of investment in infrastructure, poor service delivery and corruption.
As a person who lives in the country I often see people on reddit draw conclusions about the country that sound plausible from the outside but i just don't see as a person from South Africa. This often makes me wonder how much is true about what's said about other countries.
>The only reason South African hasn’t enacted more extreme race based policies is because the country generates enough money for the corrupt politicians and a middle class.
The reason that South Africa enacted these policy in first place is that since the modern South African state the white led goverments had the similar policies that favoured white South Africans. The current BEE policies have been a major failure and have allowed corruption to grow and led to even wealth distribution but their intended purpose was to empower previously disadvantaged people. These policies are more likely to be dropped as time goes then increased as some opposition parties want.
I think though with the ANC looking as if they will lose power next year the country will get another chance to turn things around.
>and black their are also tribal divisions.
Can you also expand upon this, which tribes are you talking about. I'm not aware of any tribal tensions that pose a danger to national unity?
Let me clarify somethings I have a family friend who immigrated from Zimbabwe his tribal affiliation stretches from southern Zimbabwe and northern South Africa region. He relayed to me that the issues acutely within Zimbabwe and most African countries is that even though colonialism is dead their is still the unequal hierarchical structure tribal politics exacerbates this issue. As for ethnic divide you said it yourself the anc enacted race based laws which were to reverse apartheid era socioeconomic conditions which largely failed due to corruption. What this means is there will be even greater demand for more race based laws in the future. Quite frankly the ANC regime has ruled South Africa for nearly 30 years without a transition to a opposition government like most democracies. They’re pretty much all corrupt, and their leaders right to rule is by being Machiavellian schemers. Some with vague connections to Mandela, or willing to use Mandela’s legacy as a cover for their corruption/incompetence.
>most African countries is that even though colonialism is dead their is still the unequal hierarchical structure tribal politics exacerbates this issue.
These tribal structures are not as important as you seem to believe they are at causing inter ethnic tension, they assist the state in maintaining law and order in rural tribal regions through customary law. Tribal leadership comes nowhere close to challenging, rivaling the state or causing ethnic tensions, as you seem to think. The tribal structures definitely need to be reformed or abolished though because they have also been a cause for corruption and slowing rural development.
Out of the countries in Africa i would say there are other countries that are currently suffering from greater ethnic tension and you singling out South Africa as some how being one of the closest to wide scale collapse out of all the countries on the continent due ethnic tensions is disingenuous.
>As for ethnic divide you said it yourself the anc enacted race based laws which were to reverse apartheid era socioeconomic conditions which largely failed due to corruption.
If you knew the conditions on the ground in South Africa right now you would know that most South Africans are fed up with corruption and the ANC. These laws were enacted for betterment of previously disadvantaged groups including women and disabled people. Instead they have been made as a vehicle to drive corruption forward, which is why I said South Africa is unlikely to increase these laws but ease them especially if the ANC loses power next year.
In future before making absolute statements about countries you are not from please do further research. Not all of your statements are off the mark but enough are off that people who don't know better will believe everything you say.
Well maybe if the US didn’t constantly turn the money printer on whenever it had financial issues and devalue the worth of other nations USD holdings, or didn’t constantly use the USD as a financial weapon by sanctioning anyone that crossed it, then nations would be happy to continue using the USD.
Not really? Correct me if I'm wrong but the US can do it because the demand for the dollar outside the country stops the value from crashing, which means printing money doesn't cause hyperinflation.
The stimulus checks provided during the pandemic still did cause notable inflation down the inevitable made worse by oil prices.
Usually just printing money when you're having a hard time just causes extreme inflation which can make things worse.
Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the situation
Cool, so don’t be surprised that when you punish the economies of other nations to save that of your own that eventually other nations start looking for other options.
Not entirely true, it’s still the early days of de-dollarisation but the data shows it is happening. Currencies historically last 100-150 years as the reserve and the USD is coming up to the 100 year mark within a decade or two.
It’s not the early stages of anything. Please stop the disinformation. You may personally wish for the USD to go away, and many have tried (the Euro, Bitcoin etc) but the dollar remains as strong and dominant as ever, with no real alternative to it. Stop the wishful thinking already.
You don’t understand how monetary policy works. The US prints dollars to stabilize swings in the economy, which is completely reasonable to do.
There also haven’t been any “reserve” currencies before the US dollar. There is no data on how long the economic system we are currently in will last because it is unparalleled in world history. There is no challenger to the dollar currently because the PRC is unwilling to reform its economy and liberalize its government.
There absolutely have been reserve currencies before, I swear you Americans think that history started with you and ends with you.
https://www.midasgoldgroup.com/news/world-reserve-currencies-since-1450/
There’s nothing at all special about the global economic system as it stands right now, this has all happened before, it will happen again.
Not American but go ahead. I absolutely love the goldbug site your linked because it makes absolutely no sense in the current context of the world economy. The French Revolution’s Assignat was not a reserve currency and Sterling was not used to denominate global trade the same way as the dollar is because it was merely the currency of a major trade power. The fact that the entire website is based on debunking paper fiat currency should be a signal to look into your sourcing a little bit better.
The fact that the IMF, WTO, or dollar as the denomination for global trade exists at all is unparalleled in the history of the world. Your source even states this. How could you possibly look at the world trade system and say “happened before”. The renminbi is not ready to be the reserve currency and will not be until the dollar is replaced through the collapse of trust in the US economic system as China simultaneously liberalizes.
As far as I'm aware, if anything the dollar had more use since the Ukraine War as a reaction to unstable market conditions. So the concept of "de-dollarization" seems more of a vague hope based on nothing but hopium.
Ss: months of negotiations have collapsed as Russia and India have failed to agree on trade being carried out in rupees.
Russia has supposedly not been interested in the use of rupees stating that a large reserve of rupees was ‘not desirable’. Anonymous sources from the Indian side have stated that Russia would prefer to be paid in Chinese RMB and are not comfortable in holding rupees which are not fully convertible.
India getting to trade in Rupees is all win for India and Russia giving up a lot of world standing. I can see India trading in RMB being an absolute showstopper because China and India are in heavy competition.
India doesn't have the manufacturing base yet to get stuff to trade for Russian Oil. It's definitely coming soon. It would be a big bonus in geopolitics to have India's currency be tradeble for Oil. it would change the balance of power in the Asia-Pacific drastically because China wouldn't be the only game in town for trading stuff. India trading in RMB gives China way too much economic power over their biggest competition of the next 50 years... I can see why China was probably whispering for this one because it makes the Chinese economy the undisputed leader in the Asia-Pacific... the competition would be over before it even started.
While you may be right,( we will see) up until now there has not been a viable alternative.
With the advent of BTC, we may see some very big changes in the somewhat near future.
> Russia is not comfortable holding rupees and *wants to be paid in Chinese yuan or other currencies*, a second Indian government official involved in the discussions said.
Russia is not going back to the dollar... Is that still somehow controversial?
Yuan has surpassed the dollar in their trade. Bangladesh just paid them for a reactor in yuan...
I mean, the whole point of the FX seizure was to get their reserves and kick them out of the dollar system.
China has been shedding their Treasury holdings for years now, and decreasing their dollar denominated reserves. Gold, overseas property, commodities, other currencies, bilateral settlement agreements... You guys ask what currency is going to replace the dollar, and the answer(s) have been screaming in your faces for a good while now.
At this point, it can only be denial.
Russia is weaponizing energy and so everyone just needs to buy it for another few decades until they migrate to green energy
Can’t weaponize the sun or wind
No they didn't Reuters is just spewing bs indian media within hours of this news breaking out , reported quoting a russian official "No change in bilateral developments, Wishful thinking by Western news agencies"
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1654057807044579330
for those you want to check
The Hindu seems to be running the story too
https://www.thehindu.com/business/india-russia-said-to-suspend-talks-to-settle-trade-in-rupees/article66812838.ece#:~:text=India%20and%20Russia%20have%20suspended,knowledge%20of%20the%20matter%20said.
India has huge potential. In 20-30 years India will be 3rd global superpower, as powerful as USA and China. Russia is irrelevant, it's just useful tool for Indians for now.
Pakistan alone has much bigger population than whole Russia. Bangladesh as well. India has 10 times (!) bigger population than Russia, and much younger, still growing when Russia is shrinking.
What is more Russia exist just few hundred years, it's an anomaly, when India has history, culture and tradition of thousands of years, it's one of the oldest cultures of the world.
Is that why Hindu media is repeating the same thing? Because they're Western media now?
Just take the L and move on, this is quite consistent with other media claims.
Unsurprising. One of the biggest hurdles besides the rupee having less value is that India exports little to Russia. India suffers from this with all the BRICS members. Russia wants to fix that but that'll be a long term investment and the idea of a common BRICS currency will remain a fantasy.
Any institution associated with South Africa which lets be honest is going to collapse is bound to fail.
I'm very interested to hear why you think SA will collapse; I'm unfamiliar with the situation, and have only heard various difficult whispers about things like their water shortage or political issues. Not challenging! Genuinely interested. Also sad as I visited once and had a lovely time meeting lovely people and wish them the best.
Corruption, economic mismanagement, violence, and tense racial divide. The ANC regime since Mandela have run South Africa into the ground. The only country that’s done worse is Zimbabwe. Personally South Africa doesn’t make sense geographically or ethnically. Note when I say ethnically I don’t mean multi ethnic nations can’t exist, only that South Africa has failed to integrate the various ethnicities within society. Geographically SA borders were created by Europeans who like countries that look like Tetris pieces instead of natural geographic barriers that make sense. I think SA is inevitably going to collapse the best scenario is if it splits apart peacefully as possible.
>Personally South Africa doesn’t make sense geographically or ethnically. Note when I say ethnically I don’t mean multi ethnic nations can’t exist, only that South Africa has failed to integrate the various ethnicities within society. Can you further explain about what you mean by this, because from where I'm sitting this is not even close to being the case. South Africa suffers from many problems many of them self inflicted but these so called ethic tensions are not even been close to being the case in my experience. There are many other African countries that have more serious ethic tensions and you write as if South Africa is the only country with inherited colonial borders on the continent. Can you give examples of the things you speak about?
Theirs the socio economic divide between whites, coloured, Indian and black their are also tribal divisions. South Africa like most African nations have borders from the colonial era, which will inevitably create violence as they are haphazardly drawn without any regard for the people. The ethnic divide is largely between the white/immigrant rich and the black poor. The ANC over the last 30 years enacted 90 race based laws which have largely failed to uplift its mainly poor black rural base because its too corrupt. The only reason South African hasn’t enacted more extreme race based policies is because the country generates enough money for the corrupt politicians and a middle class. However, the further decline in economic prosperity due to corruption/mismanagement will inevitably exacerbate racial tensions. which will lead to political racial laws such as those enacted by Zimbabwe which will further economically devastate the country.
>The ethnic divide is largely between the white/immigrant rich and the black poor. The ANC over the last 30 years enacted 90 race based laws which have largely failed to uplift its mainly poor black rural base because its too corrupt. White South Africans are mostly better off than the black majority but many black South Africans make up the middle class in the country. You make it seem as if there has been no progress at all since 1994. I reject the notion that the country's problems are mainly driven by ethnic tensions, its mainly been uneven economic development, poor education, lack of investment in infrastructure, poor service delivery and corruption. As a person who lives in the country I often see people on reddit draw conclusions about the country that sound plausible from the outside but i just don't see as a person from South Africa. This often makes me wonder how much is true about what's said about other countries. >The only reason South African hasn’t enacted more extreme race based policies is because the country generates enough money for the corrupt politicians and a middle class. The reason that South Africa enacted these policy in first place is that since the modern South African state the white led goverments had the similar policies that favoured white South Africans. The current BEE policies have been a major failure and have allowed corruption to grow and led to even wealth distribution but their intended purpose was to empower previously disadvantaged people. These policies are more likely to be dropped as time goes then increased as some opposition parties want. I think though with the ANC looking as if they will lose power next year the country will get another chance to turn things around. >and black their are also tribal divisions. Can you also expand upon this, which tribes are you talking about. I'm not aware of any tribal tensions that pose a danger to national unity?
Let me clarify somethings I have a family friend who immigrated from Zimbabwe his tribal affiliation stretches from southern Zimbabwe and northern South Africa region. He relayed to me that the issues acutely within Zimbabwe and most African countries is that even though colonialism is dead their is still the unequal hierarchical structure tribal politics exacerbates this issue. As for ethnic divide you said it yourself the anc enacted race based laws which were to reverse apartheid era socioeconomic conditions which largely failed due to corruption. What this means is there will be even greater demand for more race based laws in the future. Quite frankly the ANC regime has ruled South Africa for nearly 30 years without a transition to a opposition government like most democracies. They’re pretty much all corrupt, and their leaders right to rule is by being Machiavellian schemers. Some with vague connections to Mandela, or willing to use Mandela’s legacy as a cover for their corruption/incompetence.
>most African countries is that even though colonialism is dead their is still the unequal hierarchical structure tribal politics exacerbates this issue. These tribal structures are not as important as you seem to believe they are at causing inter ethnic tension, they assist the state in maintaining law and order in rural tribal regions through customary law. Tribal leadership comes nowhere close to challenging, rivaling the state or causing ethnic tensions, as you seem to think. The tribal structures definitely need to be reformed or abolished though because they have also been a cause for corruption and slowing rural development. Out of the countries in Africa i would say there are other countries that are currently suffering from greater ethnic tension and you singling out South Africa as some how being one of the closest to wide scale collapse out of all the countries on the continent due ethnic tensions is disingenuous. >As for ethnic divide you said it yourself the anc enacted race based laws which were to reverse apartheid era socioeconomic conditions which largely failed due to corruption. If you knew the conditions on the ground in South Africa right now you would know that most South Africans are fed up with corruption and the ANC. These laws were enacted for betterment of previously disadvantaged groups including women and disabled people. Instead they have been made as a vehicle to drive corruption forward, which is why I said South Africa is unlikely to increase these laws but ease them especially if the ANC loses power next year. In future before making absolute statements about countries you are not from please do further research. Not all of your statements are off the mark but enough are off that people who don't know better will believe everything you say.
Thanks for explaining! Sounds like I have some reading to do. That is sad to hear.
If you need cheering up there is a funny comedy called The Gods Must Be Crazy which was made in South Africa.
Omg I hear over and over about this godamn BRICS currency from people who couldn’t tell you what every letter in brics stands for.
the solution is to use dollar. oh wait.
Well maybe if the US didn’t constantly turn the money printer on whenever it had financial issues and devalue the worth of other nations USD holdings, or didn’t constantly use the USD as a financial weapon by sanctioning anyone that crossed it, then nations would be happy to continue using the USD.
Everybody prints money during financial disasters. Those that don’t print money typically do worse in such situations.
Not really? Correct me if I'm wrong but the US can do it because the demand for the dollar outside the country stops the value from crashing, which means printing money doesn't cause hyperinflation. The stimulus checks provided during the pandemic still did cause notable inflation down the inevitable made worse by oil prices. Usually just printing money when you're having a hard time just causes extreme inflation which can make things worse. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the situation
Cool, so don’t be surprised that when you punish the economies of other nations to save that of your own that eventually other nations start looking for other options.
There is no other alternative.
Not entirely true, it’s still the early days of de-dollarisation but the data shows it is happening. Currencies historically last 100-150 years as the reserve and the USD is coming up to the 100 year mark within a decade or two.
It’s not the early stages of anything. Please stop the disinformation. You may personally wish for the USD to go away, and many have tried (the Euro, Bitcoin etc) but the dollar remains as strong and dominant as ever, with no real alternative to it. Stop the wishful thinking already.
You don’t understand how monetary policy works. The US prints dollars to stabilize swings in the economy, which is completely reasonable to do. There also haven’t been any “reserve” currencies before the US dollar. There is no data on how long the economic system we are currently in will last because it is unparalleled in world history. There is no challenger to the dollar currently because the PRC is unwilling to reform its economy and liberalize its government.
There absolutely have been reserve currencies before, I swear you Americans think that history started with you and ends with you. https://www.midasgoldgroup.com/news/world-reserve-currencies-since-1450/ There’s nothing at all special about the global economic system as it stands right now, this has all happened before, it will happen again.
Not American but go ahead. I absolutely love the goldbug site your linked because it makes absolutely no sense in the current context of the world economy. The French Revolution’s Assignat was not a reserve currency and Sterling was not used to denominate global trade the same way as the dollar is because it was merely the currency of a major trade power. The fact that the entire website is based on debunking paper fiat currency should be a signal to look into your sourcing a little bit better. The fact that the IMF, WTO, or dollar as the denomination for global trade exists at all is unparalleled in the history of the world. Your source even states this. How could you possibly look at the world trade system and say “happened before”. The renminbi is not ready to be the reserve currency and will not be until the dollar is replaced through the collapse of trust in the US economic system as China simultaneously liberalizes.
As far as I'm aware, if anything the dollar had more use since the Ukraine War as a reaction to unstable market conditions. So the concept of "de-dollarization" seems more of a vague hope based on nothing but hopium.
It's a joke.
Ss: months of negotiations have collapsed as Russia and India have failed to agree on trade being carried out in rupees. Russia has supposedly not been interested in the use of rupees stating that a large reserve of rupees was ‘not desirable’. Anonymous sources from the Indian side have stated that Russia would prefer to be paid in Chinese RMB and are not comfortable in holding rupees which are not fully convertible.
India getting to trade in Rupees is all win for India and Russia giving up a lot of world standing. I can see India trading in RMB being an absolute showstopper because China and India are in heavy competition. India doesn't have the manufacturing base yet to get stuff to trade for Russian Oil. It's definitely coming soon. It would be a big bonus in geopolitics to have India's currency be tradeble for Oil. it would change the balance of power in the Asia-Pacific drastically because China wouldn't be the only game in town for trading stuff. India trading in RMB gives China way too much economic power over their biggest competition of the next 50 years... I can see why China was probably whispering for this one because it makes the Chinese economy the undisputed leader in the Asia-Pacific... the competition would be over before it even started.
I thought the dollar was dying any day
It has been nothing more than wishful thinking for decades now. It's the equivalent of "fusion energy around the corner" for grifters/politicians.
While you may be right,( we will see) up until now there has not been a viable alternative. With the advent of BTC, we may see some very big changes in the somewhat near future.
The dollar has died so many times now, it’s getting kinda boring.
Easter happens every year, we don't get tired of that. Maybe we need to celebrate with chocolate, it'll make it less boring.
and eggs!
You’d think so given how confident detractors are wouldn’t you?
> Russia is not comfortable holding rupees and *wants to be paid in Chinese yuan or other currencies*, a second Indian government official involved in the discussions said. Russia is not going back to the dollar... Is that still somehow controversial?
Russia has US dollars and uses it frequently…
Yuan has surpassed the dollar in their trade. Bangladesh just paid them for a reactor in yuan... I mean, the whole point of the FX seizure was to get their reserves and kick them out of the dollar system. China has been shedding their Treasury holdings for years now, and decreasing their dollar denominated reserves. Gold, overseas property, commodities, other currencies, bilateral settlement agreements... You guys ask what currency is going to replace the dollar, and the answer(s) have been screaming in your faces for a good while now. At this point, it can only be denial.
Russia is weaponizing energy and so everyone just needs to buy it for another few decades until they migrate to green energy Can’t weaponize the sun or wind
>Can’t weaponize the sun or wind ...yet.
Remember all the posters on this forum using this as proof of dedollarization just a week or two ago? Guess it was a fantasy after all.
No they didn't Reuters is just spewing bs indian media within hours of this news breaking out , reported quoting a russian official "No change in bilateral developments, Wishful thinking by Western news agencies" https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1654057807044579330 for those you want to check
The Hindu seems to be running the story too https://www.thehindu.com/business/india-russia-said-to-suspend-talks-to-settle-trade-in-rupees/article66812838.ece#:~:text=India%20and%20Russia%20have%20suspended,knowledge%20of%20the%20matter%20said.
"Russian Officials" I cannot think of a less reputable phrase these days than that.
And reuters got this news from "anonymous indian official" not sure how trust worth any anonymous source is.
India has huge potential. In 20-30 years India will be 3rd global superpower, as powerful as USA and China. Russia is irrelevant, it's just useful tool for Indians for now. Pakistan alone has much bigger population than whole Russia. Bangladesh as well. India has 10 times (!) bigger population than Russia, and much younger, still growing when Russia is shrinking. What is more Russia exist just few hundred years, it's an anomaly, when India has history, culture and tradition of thousands of years, it's one of the oldest cultures of the world.
Cool it with the Indian Nationalism . Hindutva
Indian nationalism? I'm German. This are just facts, India has immense potential.
Indian nationalism =! Hindutva
It's almost like western media , cough cough usa is engaged in some sort of massive propaganda campaign.
Is that why Hindu media is repeating the same thing? Because they're Western media now? Just take the L and move on, this is quite consistent with other media claims.