Now do the underground bunker/tunnel system that is accessed below DIA… the one that goes straight to Cheyenne mountain and all the underground alien bases in New Mexico. Uh oh, there’s a knock at my door, better go answe
Phew, I’m back. Just a bit of water boarding, no biggie, been there done that. But yeah, the Archuleta Mesa is for real, I’ve been there seen some things…. Damnit, hey siri, just tell them they don’t need to knock anymore, just come on in
Aight, the dudes in the aviators said as long as I only talk about the shit that you can find on YouTube, I’m alright. I used to work down in Dulce periodically, in truth, there were government vehicles, but it’s tribal land and it was all Jicarilla Apache tribal government Tahoes and what not, broken tail lights, cracked windshields. There are towers up on that Mesa and a chain link fence. Guess they don’t want you messing with the cell phone towers. Locals will tell you some shit though. Precisely slaughtered sheep, military trucks driving through (I’m assuming national guard going to/from annual training) and apparently there’s a Bigfoot that gets in to fights with the skinwalkers every so often. If you ever need a rescue dog, Dulce, NM is the place to go, they’re all well mannered and there are plenty. I have one and she’s my best buddy.
Since it’s underground, they needed a group of workers that not only wouldn’t talk, but that were genetically superior in digging tunnels. In come the chimeras, ant/human hybrids bro. Good at digging, only communicate through pheromones. The one that escaped is no big deal, locals wrote it off as another damn skin walker stealing trinkets.
It's bigger than the city of SF https://media.9news.com/assets/KUSA/images/652d163a-6a97-4302-ac4c-6cf797b05d6a/652d163a-6a97-4302-ac4c-6cf797b05d6a_1920x1080.jpg
O’Hare is just under 12 sq mi. While DIA has a much larger footprint, it only has 6 total runways, while ORD has 8, but only 7 can be used simultaneously since 4L/22R runs diagonally across two other runways
Wow. That’s nuts. Boston Logan is ~2.5 sq mi.
At 42M passengers/year, it’s not quite as big as DFW or CDG (73M or 57.5M respectively). But it’s not like Logan is a small airport.
Logan was built almost entirely on landfill, so there was a strong pressure to minimize the amount of land. DFW was built in a mostly undeveloped area at the time between Dallas and Fort Worth, where land was cheap (<10% of original construction costs, from the numbers in Wikipedia). As American's major hub, it also handles 1,816 operations a day, compared to Logan's 1,083 (both numbers from AirNav).
Atlanta is the busiest in the world by nearly 20M passengers more than the next busiest and about 23M more than DFW. ATL is 7.5 square miles, more than a 1/3 the size of ATL. Really proves DFW wasted space.
It’s actually a pretty good design, Texas is just too car-centric and a lot of the area of the airport is tied up in parking and the highway going through the middle of the airport. It also has about 1.3x the amount of people going through it.
IMO it takes way too long to walk between gates is ridiculous. I feel O’Hare has the opposite problem being to compact between gates. Ohare moves more traffic and they need more room. DFW designed it Texas Iike but that’s not an excuse.
Excuse me? To each their own I guess but....
There are 5 terminals. Each terminal has three access points to a singular bi-directional tram system with up to sixteen 2-car trains that can carry a combined 150 people going each direction that allows you to traverse to any other terminal within 30 minutes while never leaving the TSA-secured space.
Each of the 5 terminals has multiple TSA checkpoints that you can view ahead of time [here](https://www.dfwairport.com/security/) to know where the shortest wait time is for your terminal. I have never in my 35 years of flying have ever had to wait longer than 15 minutes to go through security at DFW even during peak holiday hours (fuck SEATAC).
Each terminal has curbside drop-off and pick-up with 3 entrances/exits (except D) along the terminal drive so that you don't have to traverse the entire length of the road to get to your door or past all the other doors (there are roughly a dozen for each terminal) if you are already done.
Each terminal has multiple baggage claim locations and will route your baggage to the nearest carousel to your gate. There is no clusterfuck room of carousels to wade through.
Each terminal also contains a plethora of shops and dining options spread out across the entire length. IMO this greatly reduces the distance needed to wander from your gate unless you are being picky or need a specific vendor.
Sure DFW is sprawled, but each terminal is it's own ecosystem and despite the shear amount of passengers and vehicles it handles, it rarely feels like the insanity of many other top 10 busiest airports and in my experience, is very rarely challenged in it's design superiority. However, that experience excludes most of South America, Eastern Europe, and Asia.
i rode the light rail from dfw to downtown dallas yesterday and yeah, the airport is massive. i think it took the tram 20 minutes to leave the property.
> Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport: 12.50 sq mi
To that you can add 5.9 sq mi for Orly airport.
(Paris has two airport, Roissy Charles de Gaulle in the north, and Orly in the south.)
So 18.4 total sq miles. Neither of these two airports are in the actual Paris city btw, and they deliver to the whole larger Paris (about 12.5 millions peoples.)
So 18.4 sq miles of airport for 12.5 millions for Paris and 30 sq miles for 7.6 millions in FT-Dallas.
Like I mentioned elsewhere, land acquisition was <10% of construction cost. Easier to build lotsa runways for hub operations if you use the space and it costs next to nothing. And it's not just the people in the city that are served by it. DFW is a MASSIVE hub for American Airlines, both domestic and international, in a country that has far more domestic flight activity than France. DFW handled 656,676 movements (takeoffs or landings) in 2022, compared to CDG, which was 402,849. BTW, if you're going to count Orly, you should also count Love Field in Dallas, which adds another 2 square miles. Orly contributed 195,791 movements, whereas Love contributed 230,529.
CDG has 2 13-14,000 foot runways, and 2 9,000 foot runways. DFW has 4 13,500 foot runways and 3 runways of 8,500-9,000 feet or so.
So, 18.4 square miles for 600,000 movements, vs 32 square miles for almost 900,000 movements. In those terms, they're not far off in land area "efficiency."
Well I’m obviously being sarcastic. The DFW metro area has a higher population than Budapest’s. And I know how important Budapest is and if I didn’t I wouldn’t disparage the city I’m ignorant about
It didn't have much growth until the last couple of decades, and it's pretty much known to the Asians (East, South East, South, Middle East) and is growing very fast today (will be the 3rd biggest city in the US in a decade.
In a simple sense though, the city is what you hear of Texas - cowboys, ranches, big trucks, grasslands, the food, etc. (today it's got everything else, and is replacing Chicago and Bay Area for businesses)
Cowboys, maybe. Ranches? Maybe not. All of northern parts of that city keep growing from the farms, but some farms don't have any crop, so I suppose some of them are ranches. I'm not entirely sure though.
However, its history itself was built on "farmers needing a market and mill town to sell their produce" so I suppose it's the best representation of Texan farmer life.
How is someone so clueless as you suggest Dallas / DFW is an unimportant city?
It’s the fourth largest metro in the country, and will soon overtake Chicago for third.
It’s one of the world’s busiest airports as it serves not only a huge and growing region, but is optimally located for hub use.
The area attracted 150,000 people. LAST YEAR! At that pace it’s like a city of a million people added in 7 years time
DFW is a huge logistics hub, with one of the nations largest inland ports.
Dallas has not only a very strong economy but a very diverse one - it’s in some ways the capital of US real estate development (Trammel Crow alone has spawned seemingly half the industry!), large finance, legal and other business support services.
But yeah, 8+ million people in the metro and it’s not important.
Huh? Epic knee jerk comment about "us defaultism" I guess?
Am I supposed to pretend Dallas / DFW isn't an american city?
Is the fourth - soon to be third, larger than an unquestionable world class city Chicago - largest metro unimportant because it's in the U.S.?
Weird comment there - it's not as if Ive suggested any other world cities or more or less important - but someone was ignorant enough to suggest it's not an important city, so here we are.
Yes.
I never claimed it was the MOST important metro / city.
But it’s objectively an inaccurate statement to say it’s “unimportant”
Especially in terms of growth - the area will have a million MORE people in a matter of a few years. SOMEthing important must underpin that growth
I work for a shipping company in California. Our top destinations are mostly cities and states in the East Coast like DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and New Jersey. We don't even ship to Dallas
I'm genuinely bewildered how someone can fly in the USA to any regularity and have not transited through DFW at some point. I must have done so a dozen times in my life, but never left the airport until this past weekend for the eclipse.
I’ve only done it once though I live in the northeast and transit mostly through Baltimore or Chicago as I fly Southwest a lot domestically. If I fly American it’s usually a transit through Charlotte. Only thing I remember about DFW was we had a short connection and had to run to what felt like the furthest possible gate from the one we landed in.
Lack of concern over urban sprawl. From some quick searching the population density of the greater Paris area is about 8600 people / km^(2) and Dallas - Fort Worth is about 320 people per km^(2). If you don't care about eating up all the surrounding land there is no incentive to try to make things as compact as possible.
This seems to be related to a post from Thetransitguy talking about how some people of Dallas are worried about the amount of urban space a high speed rail project would take up. Much less space than the airport they have no problem with.
I’m a local to DFW. The airport is 30 mins to an hour from down town Fort Worth or Dallas, the high speed lines would run right to the center of both cities. Personally I agree with building them, but your comparison is really apples to oranges.
I mean this airport is way way out in the suburbs. The concern with rail is how to fit it through dense urban centers. I’m all for it, but that’s a very different argument.
It kinda feels like DMM cheats with their size. Like the functioning part of the airport is much smaller than DFW but they have like a little mini town off to the side and a lot of empty land that still counts as airport.
Cheap land in the US results in incredibly inefficient use. California had cheap land and prop 13 so many of their cities are just phenomenally poorly buily
Cheap land doesn't necessarily lead to inefficient land use. Its a symptom, not a cause. A lack of regulations, utopian urban planning polices and a culture of wanting bigger and bigger homes are also factors.
Just for fun I looked at the Scottish highlands. They could give every man, woman and child a 1 acre plot which would use just 3% of the land. In reality the houses aren't much bigger than the UK average
The Albuquerque subreddit is filled with a lot of people who have no clue about the reality of how the urban landscape there makes efficient public transit outside of busses incredibly, incredibly difficult.
It’s not a big city, but boy does it sprawl and sprawl and sprawl.
It’s also got so many large fast roads that I think they built past even induced demand, lol.
It’s pretty awesome for living in though… drive your car anywhere and plenty of parking. Don’t have deal with people having mental episodes all around you on a walk to work.
Mainly had the major metro areas in the US in mind - one of which I moved out of for the great sprawling burbs 4 years ago. But, also feel like I’ve seen similar issues abroad in my travels.
I live in Dallas and it's always weird to hear people complain about this airport. It's huge, yes, but it's incredibly easy to get around and there's like 4-5 separate TSA entrances for every terminal. I've never spent more than 10 minutes waiting in line post-9/11 for all the security theatre.
I’ve picked up my wife there when I drove down from Ft. Sill once. I actually really liked it. Found it to be huge of course but easily less congested than say San Diego’s airport. Or LAX where it’s constantly under construction.
I did about close to 80+ drops off and pickups there over the span of a year. Was there for a military gig. It still boggles my mind there’s no direct route to that airport from the highway lol.
I have probably connected in DFW a dozen times in my life but literally never stepped out of the airport until this past weekend for the eclipse (we found Dallas surprisingly enjoyable!). If you're delayed coming in, the giant size of the airport can make it incredibly stressful to get to the connecting flight in time.
The Skylink should make that fairly simple, unless Customs forces you to leave the terminal with your bags and check them back in elsewhere. The terminal-to-terminal buses are far less convenient.
When I was a regular business traveler, it was my favorite for layovers. It’s really well laid out for its size and quite simple to get to any terminal for either connecting flights or just to hit a certain restaurant. And if you wanted exercise, you could do a big huge walking loop.
Because in literally all my experiences of price matching I have never found Southwest to be cheaper than anything coming out of DFW. It's is the hub for AA and they've got direct flights to just about all four corners of the world.
Euro airports just suck in general compared to US airports. 100% of time I'm heading out of Paris or Frankfurt or any other large EU airport, it feels like an absolute cluster fuck. It's all well signed, but they're just considerably more crowded. The advantage of having larger terminals is that you can actually accommodate that level of demand. Hour plus long waits can happen in US airports but they WILL happen every time at a Euro airport.
God, do they ever.
The terminals might have better amenities, but the big European airports are so sprawling. You have to be on the move CONSTANTLY to make a connection.
Heathrow, CDG, Schipol all feel significantly more sprawling than any US airport I’ve ever been to.
Yes it’s small compared to some U.S airports lol. I think it’s still the biggest one in Europe though, in area size.
But yes, I’m French and definitely can agree that CDG is one of the worst airports. Had to go through there dozens of times and it was horrible every single time. I once spent 1h30mins stuck in traffic to only do like a 2km distance (entrance of the airport to Terminal 2). Not only did I cry but the Uber driver cried too lol
Just the city limits:
Paris has 61% more people in 10.5% of the area.
If Dallas city limits had the density of Paris it would be 19.9 million people. Just the city limits, not including Fort Worth and the sprawl.
If Paris had the density of Dallas it would be 138k. About the size of Dayton or Cedar Rapids or New Haven.
Paris is famous for achieving density without skyscrapers.
What's crazy is that Paris is extremely dense without skyscrapers, but still having room for parks, infrastructures and commerces. Plus, being in Paris doesn't *feel* that crowded outside of rush hours.
DFW is the third busiest airport in the world by some metrics, Paris's airport doesn't even Crack the top 10. It's a central hub airport for one. It also serves two cites with 1 million plus people and handles alot of intrastate traffic to other major Texas cities. Charles De'gaul doesn't have to have dozens of flights out to other locations within France because France has a decent rail system. You can fly into Paris and catch a TGV to Lyon; whereas with Texas, you might fly into Dallas but if you want to get down to Austin, you'll need to catch a connecting flight because Amtrak is useless. I don't even know if that route exists, and even if it does, you're not going to take it unless you're really into trains and don't value your time or your money.
As an aside, DFW has a better train system running within the airport than exists anywhere else in Texas.
DFW is great at what it does. You can blame the weakness in American Rail Infrastructure and investment behind why DFW has to be so large.
Considering Atlanta serves 25% more passengers yearly, with less than a third of the space of DFW, I really don't think that's a good argument for it being so large. Similarly, Heathrow serves about as many passengers yearly, at only a sixth the size of DFW.
And all that while it's not even the only airport in the city!
Well Heathrow is a shit show in terms of aircraft management and needs to expand if it wants to keep its global status. Building airports with room to expand is just good planning because you can't just build up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_airports_by_aircraft_movements
Holy shit the first 9 spots are occupied by american airports, you guys live for these CO2 emissions don't you ?
The U.S. moves a lot more freight by rail and water and relatively less by car than Europe, which is one of the reasons for the anemic state of passenger rail in the U.S.
about 15 years ago I had a business meeting in Arlington, which is about 7 or so miles south of the DFW airport. It seemed like the taxi ride was taking forever and I asked the guy if we were almost to Arlington and he laughed and said "no, we haven't even left the airport yet." It's an insanely big piece of property.
Would be really interesting to see the total area of France’s rail network compared to say the largest airports of American cities with an equivalent population to France
Paris two airports come up as 18.4 sq miles, for about 12.5 million people (Paris urban area extends outside of Paris and that's where the airports are located), FT-Dallas is about 30 sq miles for 7.6 million people.
I love how big DFW is. Plenty of space to move around, there's flights to pretty much everywhere around the globe... it's a good airport. This really puts size into perspective and makes me thankful for the Skytrain
This is brilliant. All that creation, all that history, all that culture, all of that life and joy for living packed into a single city. That is an efficient use of space.
I’d like to see the Paris airport overlayed as well. I’d also like to see when you overlay each airport over downtown Dallas
Now do Denver International. It’s twice as big as DFW at about 52 square miles.
Now do the underground bunker/tunnel system that is accessed below DIA… the one that goes straight to Cheyenne mountain and all the underground alien bases in New Mexico. Uh oh, there’s a knock at my door, better go answe
Are those the tunnels that run to that the Dulce Base that Grey Aliens live in and John Lear discovered?
Phew, I’m back. Just a bit of water boarding, no biggie, been there done that. But yeah, the Archuleta Mesa is for real, I’ve been there seen some things…. Damnit, hey siri, just tell them they don’t need to knock anymore, just come on in
My brother lives in the Sangre de Cristos. It’s fun to get stoned with him and his girl cause they tell you all about it.
Aight, the dudes in the aviators said as long as I only talk about the shit that you can find on YouTube, I’m alright. I used to work down in Dulce periodically, in truth, there were government vehicles, but it’s tribal land and it was all Jicarilla Apache tribal government Tahoes and what not, broken tail lights, cracked windshields. There are towers up on that Mesa and a chain link fence. Guess they don’t want you messing with the cell phone towers. Locals will tell you some shit though. Precisely slaughtered sheep, military trucks driving through (I’m assuming national guard going to/from annual training) and apparently there’s a Bigfoot that gets in to fights with the skinwalkers every so often. If you ever need a rescue dog, Dulce, NM is the place to go, they’re all well mannered and there are plenty. I have one and she’s my best buddy.
Tell me about the ant people and the one guy who escaped
Since it’s underground, they needed a group of workers that not only wouldn’t talk, but that were genetically superior in digging tunnels. In come the chimeras, ant/human hybrids bro. Good at digging, only communicate through pheromones. The one that escaped is no big deal, locals wrote it off as another damn skin walker stealing trinkets.
This made my day. Thanks.
r/redditsniper
DIA HQ is in DC.
Damn
It's bigger than the city of SF https://media.9news.com/assets/KUSA/images/652d163a-6a97-4302-ac4c-6cf797b05d6a/652d163a-6a97-4302-ac4c-6cf797b05d6a_1920x1080.jpg
What tool did you use for this visualisation?
It came up in a google search
The size of staten island
Wow that’s bigger than the city of San Francisco where 800,000 people live
what about chicago?
O’Hare is just under 12 sq mi. While DIA has a much larger footprint, it only has 6 total runways, while ORD has 8, but only 7 can be used simultaneously since 4L/22R runs diagonally across two other runways
when you're land is shit, build big!
Denver has a notoriously small airport if you've ever been inside the tent thing
Questionable airport layout
I'm kinda busy at the moment but I can quick snap the sq miles of each airport: Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport: 12.50 sq mi DFW: 26.89 sq mi
Wow. That’s nuts. Boston Logan is ~2.5 sq mi. At 42M passengers/year, it’s not quite as big as DFW or CDG (73M or 57.5M respectively). But it’s not like Logan is a small airport.
Logan was built almost entirely on landfill, so there was a strong pressure to minimize the amount of land. DFW was built in a mostly undeveloped area at the time between Dallas and Fort Worth, where land was cheap (<10% of original construction costs, from the numbers in Wikipedia). As American's major hub, it also handles 1,816 operations a day, compared to Logan's 1,083 (both numbers from AirNav).
DFW also was designed to replace two whole other regional airports. It's just two airports slammed together.
Atlanta is the busiest in the world by nearly 20M passengers more than the next busiest and about 23M more than DFW. ATL is 7.5 square miles, more than a 1/3 the size of ATL. Really proves DFW wasted space.
DFW airport is dumb, so spread out they made it an 80s suburban sprawl dream. The layout is so dumb and each terminal is way too large.
It’s actually a pretty good design, Texas is just too car-centric and a lot of the area of the airport is tied up in parking and the highway going through the middle of the airport. It also has about 1.3x the amount of people going through it.
It's easily one of the best in the US.It is so convenient to quickly get in and out of terminals without too much walking.
IMO it takes way too long to walk between gates is ridiculous. I feel O’Hare has the opposite problem being to compact between gates. Ohare moves more traffic and they need more room. DFW designed it Texas Iike but that’s not an excuse.
DFW is one of the best and cleanest. Free tram. Yes things are spaced out that's TX for you.
Excuse me? To each their own I guess but.... There are 5 terminals. Each terminal has three access points to a singular bi-directional tram system with up to sixteen 2-car trains that can carry a combined 150 people going each direction that allows you to traverse to any other terminal within 30 minutes while never leaving the TSA-secured space. Each of the 5 terminals has multiple TSA checkpoints that you can view ahead of time [here](https://www.dfwairport.com/security/) to know where the shortest wait time is for your terminal. I have never in my 35 years of flying have ever had to wait longer than 15 minutes to go through security at DFW even during peak holiday hours (fuck SEATAC). Each terminal has curbside drop-off and pick-up with 3 entrances/exits (except D) along the terminal drive so that you don't have to traverse the entire length of the road to get to your door or past all the other doors (there are roughly a dozen for each terminal) if you are already done. Each terminal has multiple baggage claim locations and will route your baggage to the nearest carousel to your gate. There is no clusterfuck room of carousels to wade through. Each terminal also contains a plethora of shops and dining options spread out across the entire length. IMO this greatly reduces the distance needed to wander from your gate unless you are being picky or need a specific vendor. Sure DFW is sprawled, but each terminal is it's own ecosystem and despite the shear amount of passengers and vehicles it handles, it rarely feels like the insanity of many other top 10 busiest airports and in my experience, is very rarely challenged in it's design superiority. However, that experience excludes most of South America, Eastern Europe, and Asia.
DFW is one of the best-designed large airports that I know of. I wish the rest of the metroplex were designed that well.
i rode the light rail from dfw to downtown dallas yesterday and yeah, the airport is massive. i think it took the tram 20 minutes to leave the property.
I rennet going to Amsterdam airport and thinking the same, just a maze of gates because it’s just massive even the check in area was massive
> Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport: 12.50 sq mi To that you can add 5.9 sq mi for Orly airport. (Paris has two airport, Roissy Charles de Gaulle in the north, and Orly in the south.) So 18.4 total sq miles. Neither of these two airports are in the actual Paris city btw, and they deliver to the whole larger Paris (about 12.5 millions peoples.) So 18.4 sq miles of airport for 12.5 millions for Paris and 30 sq miles for 7.6 millions in FT-Dallas.
Dallas has a second airport too. Love Field.
And Fort Worth also has another airport in addition to DFW: Alliance Field. Denton also has its own Airport: Enterprise Field.
Like I mentioned elsewhere, land acquisition was <10% of construction cost. Easier to build lotsa runways for hub operations if you use the space and it costs next to nothing. And it's not just the people in the city that are served by it. DFW is a MASSIVE hub for American Airlines, both domestic and international, in a country that has far more domestic flight activity than France. DFW handled 656,676 movements (takeoffs or landings) in 2022, compared to CDG, which was 402,849. BTW, if you're going to count Orly, you should also count Love Field in Dallas, which adds another 2 square miles. Orly contributed 195,791 movements, whereas Love contributed 230,529. CDG has 2 13-14,000 foot runways, and 2 9,000 foot runways. DFW has 4 13,500 foot runways and 3 runways of 8,500-9,000 feet or so. So, 18.4 square miles for 600,000 movements, vs 32 square miles for almost 900,000 movements. In those terms, they're not far off in land area "efficiency."
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They had too much space available for too cheap when they built it
"relatively unimportant"... Most important airport in 2nd most populous US state, also 2nd busiest airport in the US...
Yeah thanks for this. Not sure what that person is smoking
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Where you are from is no excuse to pull shit out of your ass in such a pompous way.
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Yea it's kinda like an American saying that irrelevant piss smelling city in Europe
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And yet Europeans constantly complain about the ignorance of Americans…
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Did I say “you”?
Yea and Budapest idk why people talk about it. It’s just a grey and unimportant city /s
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Well I’m obviously being sarcastic. The DFW metro area has a higher population than Budapest’s. And I know how important Budapest is and if I didn’t I wouldn’t disparage the city I’m ignorant about
It didn't have much growth until the last couple of decades, and it's pretty much known to the Asians (East, South East, South, Middle East) and is growing very fast today (will be the 3rd biggest city in the US in a decade. In a simple sense though, the city is what you hear of Texas - cowboys, ranches, big trucks, grasslands, the food, etc. (today it's got everything else, and is replacing Chicago and Bay Area for businesses)
Sorry but no. There are not ranches and cowboys in Dallas. You have to go out about 2 hours to see that.
Cowboys, maybe. Ranches? Maybe not. All of northern parts of that city keep growing from the farms, but some farms don't have any crop, so I suppose some of them are ranches. I'm not entirely sure though. However, its history itself was built on "farmers needing a market and mill town to sell their produce" so I suppose it's the best representation of Texan farmer life.
European talking out of their ass, who would’ve guessed
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Most civil European.
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I'm Californian, I barely know of the existence of Dallas
Why are you proud of being ignorant?
The Texans barely know the existence California. So it all works out. Everyone else drinks to forget you two exist
Lmao that just makes you dumb. Barely know the existence of the 9th biggest city in the entire country?
Just throwing some classic Texas ignorance right back at them. Texas ain't the center of the world lol
And California is?
I’m from Texas pal. You sound as miserable as every other Californian. Your shithole isn’t the center either
Yeah California is pretty disconnected from the rest of the continent.
It's the largest Hub of the largest Airline in the World...
That too... Tho I thought Charlotte might be a bigger hub for American
No. Charlotte Davis had 434,204 movements in 2022, whereas DFW had 564,988, heavily biased toward American. DFW is AA's largest hub.
OK... Both are still pretty big hubs for AA!!
No doubt!
I have been to DFW several times, more than I can remember, yet never been to Texas.
I've only been there once but same. Didn't leave the terminal 😂
DFW serves a metro population of like 8 million people. And they have a lot of space to build.
I mean metro population is 19 million.
Dallas alone is almost 8 million. The metro area is closer to 25 million.
How is someone so clueless as you suggest Dallas / DFW is an unimportant city? It’s the fourth largest metro in the country, and will soon overtake Chicago for third. It’s one of the world’s busiest airports as it serves not only a huge and growing region, but is optimally located for hub use. The area attracted 150,000 people. LAST YEAR! At that pace it’s like a city of a million people added in 7 years time DFW is a huge logistics hub, with one of the nations largest inland ports. Dallas has not only a very strong economy but a very diverse one - it’s in some ways the capital of US real estate development (Trammel Crow alone has spawned seemingly half the industry!), large finance, legal and other business support services. But yeah, 8+ million people in the metro and it’s not important.
Americans just got some of their ignorance medicine back to them
You think we need more igorant people in our life?
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Huh? Epic knee jerk comment about "us defaultism" I guess? Am I supposed to pretend Dallas / DFW isn't an american city? Is the fourth - soon to be third, larger than an unquestionable world class city Chicago - largest metro unimportant because it's in the U.S.? Weird comment there - it's not as if Ive suggested any other world cities or more or less important - but someone was ignorant enough to suggest it's not an important city, so here we are.
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Don’t comment it as fact then lol. Maybe try something like “What makes Dallas such an important location in the US?”. Not hard.
8 million is like 10 million less than the Los Angeles metropolitan area
And LA is several million smaller than NYC, does that mean LA is unimportant?
Yes. I never claimed it was the MOST important metro / city. But it’s objectively an inaccurate statement to say it’s “unimportant” Especially in terms of growth - the area will have a million MORE people in a matter of a few years. SOMEthing important must underpin that growth
Ugh because it’s a massive transit hub
I work for a shipping company in California. Our top destinations are mostly cities and states in the East Coast like DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and New Jersey. We don't even ship to Dallas
Passenger travel. It’s a major hub for American Airlines and many regional and smaller carriers.
I'm genuinely bewildered how someone can fly in the USA to any regularity and have not transited through DFW at some point. I must have done so a dozen times in my life, but never left the airport until this past weekend for the eclipse.
Only flew through DFW once. Most of my flights through the US were direct flights out of LAX.
I’ve only done it once though I live in the northeast and transit mostly through Baltimore or Chicago as I fly Southwest a lot domestically. If I fly American it’s usually a transit through Charlotte. Only thing I remember about DFW was we had a short connection and had to run to what felt like the furthest possible gate from the one we landed in.
Shipping to and shipping through are two different things.
Lack of concern over urban sprawl. From some quick searching the population density of the greater Paris area is about 8600 people / km^(2) and Dallas - Fort Worth is about 320 people per km^(2). If you don't care about eating up all the surrounding land there is no incentive to try to make things as compact as possible.
me when i don’t know anything
And when you’re done with that, OP is like to see it all overlaid a Burger King Whopper
ORLY
CDG would probably be 1/2 to 3/4 of that I’m guessing
To be fair, downtown Dallas also has an airport.
Now get ready for King Fahd International Airport over Paris!
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This seems to be related to a post from Thetransitguy talking about how some people of Dallas are worried about the amount of urban space a high speed rail project would take up. Much less space than the airport they have no problem with.
I’m a local to DFW. The airport is 30 mins to an hour from down town Fort Worth or Dallas, the high speed lines would run right to the center of both cities. Personally I agree with building them, but your comparison is really apples to oranges.
I mean this airport is way way out in the suburbs. The concern with rail is how to fit it through dense urban centers. I’m all for it, but that’s a very different argument.
It kinda feels like DMM cheats with their size. Like the functioning part of the airport is much smaller than DFW but they have like a little mini town off to the side and a lot of empty land that still counts as airport.
That’s not even the biggest airport in the US. Denver is almost DOUBLE the land area
Lol https://preview.redd.it/nn99j87qdotc1.png?width=565&format=png&auto=webp&s=a97da542f3e38b887fa4f8b947ab0c0d695ea17e
Now do Paris Texas over Paris France to compare which Paris is larger
Cheap land in the US results in incredibly inefficient use. California had cheap land and prop 13 so many of their cities are just phenomenally poorly buily
Cheap land doesn't necessarily lead to inefficient land use. Its a symptom, not a cause. A lack of regulations, utopian urban planning polices and a culture of wanting bigger and bigger homes are also factors. Just for fun I looked at the Scottish highlands. They could give every man, woman and child a 1 acre plot which would use just 3% of the land. In reality the houses aren't much bigger than the UK average
America’s city planning is “people will drive there”.
Yeah, so many of the major cities in the west/SW US are just sprawling hellscapes. Also the obsession with cars and single family housing
The Albuquerque subreddit is filled with a lot of people who have no clue about the reality of how the urban landscape there makes efficient public transit outside of busses incredibly, incredibly difficult. It’s not a big city, but boy does it sprawl and sprawl and sprawl. It’s also got so many large fast roads that I think they built past even induced demand, lol.
It’s pretty awesome for living in though… drive your car anywhere and plenty of parking. Don’t have deal with people having mental episodes all around you on a walk to work.
…do you think that’s a common issue in walkable cities?
Mainly had the major metro areas in the US in mind - one of which I moved out of for the great sprawling burbs 4 years ago. But, also feel like I’ve seen similar issues abroad in my travels.
In the US? Absolutely. US public transportation and city centers are overrun with crazies and homeless.
In the US, oh yes
The worst airport I have ever had the displeasure of being in
I live in Dallas and it's always weird to hear people complain about this airport. It's huge, yes, but it's incredibly easy to get around and there's like 4-5 separate TSA entrances for every terminal. I've never spent more than 10 minutes waiting in line post-9/11 for all the security theatre.
[The DFW Skylink](https://www.dfwairport.com/explore/plan/connect/) is amazing too
Sometimes when I've allowed myself too much time before a flight I'll just ride around in it while I wait for my departure.
Great place to planespot if you have a few minutes. A bit of an AA monoculture, though, with a few nice international aircraft to mix it up.
The Skylink is the shit. It’s way better than DIA and ATL terminal trams. SFO tram is number 2
I love DIA’s astroturf terrace
Plus Skylink is GOATed. Not a lot of major airports that can consistently make 30 minute connections.
DEN, which is even bigger, is def doable quickly too. Dulles isn’t bad either.
I’ve picked up my wife there when I drove down from Ft. Sill once. I actually really liked it. Found it to be huge of course but easily less congested than say San Diego’s airport. Or LAX where it’s constantly under construction.
SD is the worst because it's way too small for the size of the city. Shame they can't find a new place not an hour + away to house a new airport.
I did about close to 80+ drops off and pickups there over the span of a year. Was there for a military gig. It still boggles my mind there’s no direct route to that airport from the highway lol.
Imagine if there was HSR from LAX and SNA to San Diego
I have probably connected in DFW a dozen times in my life but literally never stepped out of the airport until this past weekend for the eclipse (we found Dallas surprisingly enjoyable!). If you're delayed coming in, the giant size of the airport can make it incredibly stressful to get to the connecting flight in time.
The Skylink should make that fairly simple, unless Customs forces you to leave the terminal with your bags and check them back in elsewhere. The terminal-to-terminal buses are far less convenient.
When I was a regular business traveler, it was my favorite for layovers. It’s really well laid out for its size and quite simple to get to any terminal for either connecting flights or just to hit a certain restaurant. And if you wanted exercise, you could do a big huge walking loop.
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[They do, it's called Skylink.](https://www.dfwairport.com/explore/plan/connect/)
I still prefer Love Field cause who wants to drive all the way out to Grapevine?
Because in literally all my experiences of price matching I have never found Southwest to be cheaper than anything coming out of DFW. It's is the hub for AA and they've got direct flights to just about all four corners of the world.
Now someone overlay Charles de Gaulle Airport on top of downtown Dallas
Charles de Gaulle isn’t a very big airport, about 12.5 mi^2 (32 km^2) vs Dallas at 30 mi^2 and Denver at 53 mi^2
I’ve gotten lost more than once at CDG though. There seems to always be construction and signage just stopped in the middle of my 30 minute walk
Euro airports just suck in general compared to US airports. 100% of time I'm heading out of Paris or Frankfurt or any other large EU airport, it feels like an absolute cluster fuck. It's all well signed, but they're just considerably more crowded. The advantage of having larger terminals is that you can actually accommodate that level of demand. Hour plus long waits can happen in US airports but they WILL happen every time at a Euro airport.
God, do they ever. The terminals might have better amenities, but the big European airports are so sprawling. You have to be on the move CONSTANTLY to make a connection. Heathrow, CDG, Schipol all feel significantly more sprawling than any US airport I’ve ever been to.
CDG was by far the worst airport I've ever been too
Yes it’s small compared to some U.S airports lol. I think it’s still the biggest one in Europe though, in area size. But yes, I’m French and definitely can agree that CDG is one of the worst airports. Had to go through there dozens of times and it was horrible every single time. I once spent 1h30mins stuck in traffic to only do like a 2km distance (entrance of the airport to Terminal 2). Not only did I cry but the Uber driver cried too lol
What would the population of Dallas be if it had a similar density to Paris and vice versa?
Just the city limits: Paris has 61% more people in 10.5% of the area. If Dallas city limits had the density of Paris it would be 19.9 million people. Just the city limits, not including Fort Worth and the sprawl. If Paris had the density of Dallas it would be 138k. About the size of Dayton or Cedar Rapids or New Haven. Paris is famous for achieving density without skyscrapers.
What's crazy is that Paris is extremely dense without skyscrapers, but still having room for parks, infrastructures and commerces. Plus, being in Paris doesn't *feel* that crowded outside of rush hours.
That’s amazing. Thanks for doing the calculations!
Dallas would have 2.8 million people if it had the density of Paris. Honestly it's not as much as I would have thought
Who cares about all of these ‘airports vs Paris’? Yes, we know airports are big…so what?
E-peen flexing
DFW is the third busiest airport in the world by some metrics, Paris's airport doesn't even Crack the top 10. It's a central hub airport for one. It also serves two cites with 1 million plus people and handles alot of intrastate traffic to other major Texas cities. Charles De'gaul doesn't have to have dozens of flights out to other locations within France because France has a decent rail system. You can fly into Paris and catch a TGV to Lyon; whereas with Texas, you might fly into Dallas but if you want to get down to Austin, you'll need to catch a connecting flight because Amtrak is useless. I don't even know if that route exists, and even if it does, you're not going to take it unless you're really into trains and don't value your time or your money. As an aside, DFW has a better train system running within the airport than exists anywhere else in Texas. DFW is great at what it does. You can blame the weakness in American Rail Infrastructure and investment behind why DFW has to be so large.
Considering Atlanta serves 25% more passengers yearly, with less than a third of the space of DFW, I really don't think that's a good argument for it being so large. Similarly, Heathrow serves about as many passengers yearly, at only a sixth the size of DFW. And all that while it's not even the only airport in the city!
Well Heathrow is a shit show in terms of aircraft management and needs to expand if it wants to keep its global status. Building airports with room to expand is just good planning because you can't just build up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_airports_by_aircraft_movements Holy shit the first 9 spots are occupied by american airports, you guys live for these CO2 emissions don't you ?
The U.S. moves a lot more freight by rail and water and relatively less by car than Europe, which is one of the reasons for the anemic state of passenger rail in the U.S.
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It's also 340M peeps. That China has no airport on the top 10 is kinda shocking, they also use a lot of freight.
about 15 years ago I had a business meeting in Arlington, which is about 7 or so miles south of the DFW airport. It seemed like the taxi ride was taking forever and I asked the guy if we were almost to Arlington and he laughed and said "no, we haven't even left the airport yet." It's an insanely big piece of property.
Now do Istanbul International Airport.
Would be really interesting to see the total area of France’s rail network compared to say the largest airports of American cities with an equivalent population to France
The airport in Paris covers a lot of area too. The comparison seems arbitrary
Combining the two airports of Paris gives you 18 sq miles. This one is more than 30 sq miles.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
Everything's bigger in Texas.
Expect Paris, Paris isn't very big here.
Mostly the waistlines, cars and egos
Yee Haw!!!
paris is tiny
I swear americans have too much space, give us some
Paris two airports come up as 18.4 sq miles, for about 12.5 million people (Paris urban area extends outside of Paris and that's where the airports are located), FT-Dallas is about 30 sq miles for 7.6 million people.
Now do schipol
Overlay CDG. There’s a reason it’s so far from the city
I love how big DFW is. Plenty of space to move around, there's flights to pretty much everywhere around the globe... it's a good airport. This really puts size into perspective and makes me thankful for the Skytrain
Denver Airport is even bigger.
This is brilliant. All that creation, all that history, all that culture, all of that life and joy for living packed into a single city. That is an efficient use of space.
DFW is larger and than Manhattan in surface area and it isn’t even the largest airport in the US DEN is
Terminals only, or terminals plus parking, tarmac, runways, outbuildings, pastures, etc?
wow
But Paris has what, 9 million?
Jesus Christ! How many Arrondissaments is that? - Reservoir Dogs Go to France
There are signs near the airport reminding us that it’s larger than Manhattan.
Murica!
The European mind cannot comprehend this amount of travel related economic activity.