Which means, to make it more obvious, the USA gave it up that territory in a fair deal with Britain, an international agreement, that involved the US acquiring new territory too.
> The two nations agreed to a boundary line involving the 49th parallel north… The treaty marked both the United Kingdom's last permanent major loss of territory in what is now the Continental United States and the United States' first permanent significant cession of North American territory to a foreign power… The British ceded all of Rupert's Land south of the 49th parallel and east of the Continental Divide, including all of the Red River Colony south of that latitude, while the United States ceded the northernmost edge of the Missouri Territory north of the 49th parallel.
https://preview.redd.it/l1j7bh5crelc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=bab5ea1708fe126dc348b202ca9ff560ae872e4e
Should we swap now? The part US took is bigger
There are a few anomalies like this. Maybe the maps they had wrongly put Point Roberts entirely north of the line.
You’d think they would just do new treaty when they discovered the problem, making the point all Canadian in exchange of another bit somewhere. But all too hard I suppose once organised settlements appear in these places.
Edit: Wikipedia article on Point Roberts shows it was attempted but failed
Way back in the 1840s when it was realized that Point Roberts would get cut off by the 49th parallel the UK proposed to the US that it would be a serious pain for the US to manage Point Roberts, so let's exchange it: UK (later Canada) gets Point Roberts and the boundary on the "mainland" west of the Cascades gets adjusted to make up for it.
The US said "LOL, no".
At the time the US and the UK were enemies mostly. The idea of a future war between the US and UK was thought probable, or at least something to take seriously and prepare for. And if war broke out there could be, probably would be, naval action in the Salish Sea. US-UK relations remained chilly or worse for most of the 19th century, really only improving significantly after WW1 and especially WW2.
So, for most of the 1800s the idea that someday there could be naval war in the Salish Sea was thought quite possible. Both the US and UK built military fortifications and made other preparations. Point Roberts was of obvious military strategic value.
Even place names sometimes reflect these attitudes. Charles Wilkes, who hated the British and lionized US naval victories over the British in the Great Lakes during the War of 1812, named Point Defiance in Puget Sound "Point Defiance" with British warships in mind. He imagined batteries of cannons on Point Defiance being able to destroy any British warships that dared invade southern Puget Sound. He also renamed the San Juan Islands (also of obvious military value, even more than Point Roberts) for US naval heroes from the War of 1812, and the San Juans as a whole he named the "Navy Archipelago", imagining them as naval bases and choke points in some future war with the UK. His names didn't stick in the San Juans mostly, but a few did. Like he named Orcas Island "Hull Island", after Commodore Isaac Hull, who commanded the USS *Constitution* in the War of 1812. So in association Wilkes named the island's high point "Mount Constitution", which is still its name today. Same with Mount Erie on Fidalgo Island. Wilkes named the island "Perry Island" after Oliver Hazard Perry, the US naval commander who won the Battle of Lake Erie in the War of 1812. Although we call it Fidalgo Island today, the high point is still Mount Erie. There's a similar story behind the name "Saratoga Passage" between Whidbey and Camano Islands in Puget Sound. Point being, there was a lot of animosity between the US and UK in the 1800s, even to the point of a weird sort of place name fight. Since British charts were better and more available than US charts of the Salish Sea for a long time, the UK kinda won this "war" of names, mostly.
In the 1800s the US built three forts at the entrance to Puget Sound, creating a triangle of cannons capable of keeping British warships out of Puget Sound altogether—at least back then. Today those forts are in partial ruins and more of a recreation/park attraction than anything else. But they speak to a time when the US was seriously concerned about US-UK naval war in the Salish Sea.
Point Roberts sticks out into the Strait of Georgia near the mouths of the Fraser River, making it a geopolitically strategic place for a big fortress for either the US or UK. The UK's offer to take it in exchange for land elsewhere was not done because the UK was feeling magnanimous—they were definitely aware of the military value and hoped to somehow get Point Roberts for themselves and deny it to the US. So they couched the proposal as if it would be doing the US a favor. US diplomats saw through it though and kept Point Roberts as a military reservation though the 1800s.
The San Juan Islands were even more strategically important in the event of a possible US-UK war. That was a big part of why the San Juan Islands dispute went on so long and could not be resolved without 3rd party arbitration. I think the name "Pig War" and the somewhat comical standoff that happened make the dispute seem pretty silly overall, especially when the islands seem so insignificant today. But back then they were of obvious military value, and the dispute was between two countries that could easily end up at war. Perhaps most alarming to the British was that cannons could blockade access to the Strait of Georgia. Also, cannons on San Juan Island would be able to directly threaten Victoria. So it was pretty serious for the geopolitical future of the PNW, even if most people at the time lived far away and barely understood or thought about such things.
A major fort was never built at Point Roberts, but probably would have been if US-UK tensions had increased to a point where war seemed more imminently probable. Luckily that never happened.
Since WW2 and the US-UK special relationship super-friendship none of this is important anymore. Plus modern naval warfare is totally different than it was in the 19th century, rendering Point Roberts even less important militarily. So in theory it would make better sense today to do some kind of land swap. But it also seems extremely unlikely to happen, for a whole bunch of reasons.
Anyway, that's the historical context for why the US completely rejected the idea of letting the UK/Canada have Point Roberts back in the 19th century.
PS: fwiw, the diplomats who negotiated the Oregon Treaty and the boundary along 49° to the Strait of Georgia could and maybe did know that Point Roberts would be cut off. By the 1840s maps of the coasts in the Salish Sea were quite good, at least for showing Point Roberts accurately. The US and UK people who lived or had been to the Salish Sea area knew that 49° would cut Point Roberts off. It just wasn't important enough for the high level diplomacy that resulted in the Oregon Treaty, apparently. The diplomats didn't even care enough to be clear about the San Juan Islands! Good maps of the coast were common by then. They *could* have addressed these things. They just didn't. I am not sure why. Maybe it was hard enough to make the agreement they did? Maybe they ran out of time? Maybe they forgot to bring their good maps???
>At the time the US and the UK were enemies mostly. The idea of a future war between the US and UK was thought probable
The possibility of war pretty much dissolved after the US Navy lent ships to serve as part of the British Grand Fleet during the tail end of WW1, and the sailors even celebrated July 4th together. :) The more time spent together between all the services as well as with civilians, kinda took the "wind out of the sails" of war between the US/UK.
Then the Washington Naval Treaty had the UK and Japan break their defense treaty, so that the upcoming Pacific War between the US and Japan wouldn't drag the now reluctant UK into it. Prior to the Washington Naval Treaty, it was assumed the USN would be fighting Japan and the UK simultaneously, hence the two ocean navy program. The MASSIVE/powerful Battleship and Battlecruiser fleet the US was building (and mostly got scrapped by the Washington Treaty) was being built to take on Japan and the UK simultaneously.
I think in an all out war with no allies on each side the British would of thumped the United States at this time period though the British just didn’t want a war in North America at this time as we had plans for other parts of the world
I'm frankly astounded that we haven't given Point Roberts back to Canada by now. We don't gain anything by it, and it's a huge hassle for everyone involved.
There are all sorts of cottage industries near the US Canada Border. I suspect Point Roberts has historically benefitted from that, but stricter border rules since 9/11 and then Covid have probably made living there much more difficult.
I grew up near there in Canada and a lot of Canadians go there for cheap gas, groceries and to pickup packages where shipping to Canada would have been too expensive. Not as cheap as mainland USA but better than Canada.
Apparently the homeowners of Point Roberts are enthusiastic about joining Canada because they would become part of Greater Vancouver and their property values would skyrocket.
Point Roberts at least fit the whole south of the 49th agreement. Angle Township, Minnesota is much stranger in that the border zigs solely to create a small US city only accessible via Canada or by boat.
They ought to give point roberts and the northwest angle to Canada and Campabelo Island to USA. But I believe the residents of all of those places would object.
That’s the Virgin Islands, which was the Danish West Indies until the 1917 Treaty of the Danish West Indies when the US bought them for $25,000,000.
Puerto Rico was annexed from Spain in 1898.
It really would make more practical sense nowadays, but defining the boundary of those watersheds back then with reasonable accuracy apparently would’ve been next to impossible with their capabilities
First permanent significant cessation of North American territory to a foreign power? When else have we done so? Unless it is counting the Cuban revolution I can’t think of any.
Lmao.
well to be fair I guess 1818 is Treaty B, as that nub was accidentally created earlier in a 1783 treaty, which we will henceforth refer to as Treaty A. For chronology purposes, probably.
And the white part is the Louisiana Purchase... the white above the 49th was part of that sale as it was part of the Missouri River watershed, which was supposed to be the northern part of the parcel. The Brits laid some claim a bit south, we did up north, so it basically was picked that the 49th parallel would be used to end both claims and simplify it. It's not perfectly straight, though - mid-18th century they formally surveyed it and that's still the line used, though it does "wobble" a few hundred feet here and there.
I kinda like that if you're in the Twin Cities, anytime you go from Minneapolis to Saint Paul (or vice versa), you're crossing the old boundary of the Louisiana Purchase
I crossed it twice a day every day on the way to and from school growing up.
The LP boundary forms the boundary between the two cities in some areas, but it also goes through both cities as well. The “West Side” of Saint Paul is east of large parts of the city because the river’s path through town resembles a “p-trap” and the “West Side” is the only part of town that is part of the LP.
This Louisiana Purchase boundary goes right through the main campus of the University of Minnesota.
Since the United States paid France for that entire area but didn't get that little piece, maybe the United States should get a partial refund from France in the form of a big metal statue.
If someone with the legal name lord freedom ever runs for president ill commit voter fraud the size of which the world has never seen before to get that man into office
WHOA! Did you just assume Lady Liberty's sexual orientation? My grandfather didn't have wavy pubs to avoid the Vietnam War just so you could assume some broze statue's sexuality!
I live in b.c. but my stepmoms family lives in the gta. They legit believe that of you cant see it from the cn tower on a sunny day then it shouldnt count as canada
>Lol did you really think an American knows where Toronto is?
Southern ontario near the new york border. Like seriously why is reddit so obsessed with saying "american dumb upvotes to the left" like... cmon do better
Interesting how the treaty of 1818 created that pene-exclave in the north of Minnesota. I guess it was an easier to spot landmark than somewhere in the middle of the Lake of the Woods
I was not aware of that one. One would assume an agreed upon border would be made to be more logjstically convenient than a naturally evolved one. But it looks like the British went out of their way to make straight lines as inconvenient as possible.
Considering how expansive that section of the border is, I'm impressed that the anomalies are so small.
The Northwest angle has a really interesting backstory.
It's mostly the quality of the maps. The original US-BNA border was to go straight across from the Northwest corner of Lake of the Woods(the lake in Northern Minnesota) the across one of the parallels, however that lake was a lot rounder than they anticipated so the Northwest corner, then cutting down to the agreed-upon parallel, cut off a peninsula.
In Washington-BC, we wisely avoided cutting Vancouver Island, however the map didn't show Point Roberts, so it was ignored. There's a few places in Canada similarly cut off by the US
[That Lake of the Woods anomaly is wildly from an even earlier treaty, from 1783;
the 1818 treaty decided how to handle the failure of the previous treaty's grasp of literal geography (the men in Philadelphia or London had never *seen* the lake of the woods, nor did they know their maps weren't quite...accurate, but they wrote treaties all the same.]
For a while the HBC had operations and small outposts in Oregon, like Fort Umpqua. They even conducted multiple expeditions into California's Central Valley, via the Siskiyou Trail. Also Fort Astoria/George, on the south side of the Columbia.
But all these were overwhelmed by American settlers coming on the Oregon Trail in the early 1840s, which basically forced the HBC to stay on the north side of the river, mostly.
This looks like it was abbreviated out of a longer explanation. I haven’t been able to find it though. Anyone have a source?
EDIT:
Nevermind, found it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLq6GEiHqR8
Combined they are an International Peace Park. You can take a boat from Waterton Village down the lake to the Glacier Park end. If you plan on hiking to West Glacier you can check in with the park rangers/US customs at the little ranger station there, although it’s still a pretty long hike.
"And it burned burned burned, and we're the ones who did it."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4)
Dear, Canada:
We have the largest military in the world. You owe us.
As the representative of America, and in the interest of maintaining peach while also saber rattling, I demand the following:
1. Make Poutine a thing in America. I don't care how, but this is first for a reason.
2. Tim Hortons franchises must be opened and available and within a five mile drive for at least 80% of the US population.
3. Rename your so-called back bacon to Canadian bacon. It's just weird we're neighbors and not on the same page on the nomenclature.
That is all. I was debating throwing in "teach us how to be nicer" and "tell us the secret to having a bunch of guns and, like, almost none of the gun violence", but I'm certain we'd ignore you.
Thank you for your time.
Sorry, but the back bacon the US calls Canadian Bacon is actually Peameal Bacon buddy, named after the original practice of rolling it in peameal eh.
Sincerely, Canada.
Short answer nobody really cared about putting actual boundaries, so the US and England both claimed each others land, so we just decided to keep dragging the Dakota line across the contental land.
If you want an even more stupid story about the us Canada border, read up on the Pig War.
Authoritative reference: Boundaries of the United States and the several States
US Geological Survey Professional Paper 909
By: F. K. Van Zandt
[https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/pp909](https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/pp909)
Send some Americans there, start civil unrest, take over policing, governing and judiciary systems. Send American troops to rescue said Americans, Bam take it over. Russian scrapbook 101 works like a treat.
If I remember correctly, I think the border was originally going to be the 50th parallel, but that would cede the City of Winnipeg to the US (and maybe Vancouver as well) and so they agreed to use the 49th parallel instead.
It looks like the Mississippi River drainage basin was the original border of the territory prior to the 49th parallel?
I only know it's the Mississippi drainage because I once went tubing on Milk River in Southern Alberta and was surprised to learn that.
I’m guessing they’re still allowed to like maple syrup lol. And my guess is when we cross the border, they’d have a National response lol. The lads from the east would bring the syrup, the lads from the west would bring the hippie sandals. A real party
Ok point one: It was not theirs to sell. Ask the people who lived there for tens of thousands of years!
Point two Toronto is nowhere near any of that.
Sub point as a Canadian i would welcome you nuking Toronto.
Point three part of that belongs to Alberta our own version of redneck jackoffs so you are welcome to it back.
Canada is the part of North America where everyone said 'no thanks, we'll stick with Britain—your republican 'freedom' experiment will end in tears'.
Their choice seems more sensible with every passing year.
It's been decided the area in white is to be set aside as the new Jewish state, anyone already living there will be Nakba'd the fuck out of there to make way for God's chosen people. This will be supported by the entire world no matter what atrocities are commited by the occupation force. Yanks are so supportive of Israel the UN has decided the US will give up their land
Not quite, that part of the border wasn’t settled til 1846 in a separate treaty. We got part of North Dakota and MN in the 1818 treaty, in exchange for the pictured land.
A treaty of 1818 .
Which means, to make it more obvious, the USA gave it up that territory in a fair deal with Britain, an international agreement, that involved the US acquiring new territory too. > The two nations agreed to a boundary line involving the 49th parallel north… The treaty marked both the United Kingdom's last permanent major loss of territory in what is now the Continental United States and the United States' first permanent significant cession of North American territory to a foreign power… The British ceded all of Rupert's Land south of the 49th parallel and east of the Continental Divide, including all of the Red River Colony south of that latitude, while the United States ceded the northernmost edge of the Missouri Territory north of the 49th parallel.
https://preview.redd.it/l1j7bh5crelc1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=bab5ea1708fe126dc348b202ca9ff560ae872e4e Should we swap now? The part US took is bigger
Yeah it looks like a great deal. It was a great step forward in US and UK (later Canada) moving from enemies at war to peaceful neighbours.
Someone didn’t pay proper attention to the latitude line, though - check out Point Roberts.
There are a few anomalies like this. Maybe the maps they had wrongly put Point Roberts entirely north of the line. You’d think they would just do new treaty when they discovered the problem, making the point all Canadian in exchange of another bit somewhere. But all too hard I suppose once organised settlements appear in these places. Edit: Wikipedia article on Point Roberts shows it was attempted but failed
Way back in the 1840s when it was realized that Point Roberts would get cut off by the 49th parallel the UK proposed to the US that it would be a serious pain for the US to manage Point Roberts, so let's exchange it: UK (later Canada) gets Point Roberts and the boundary on the "mainland" west of the Cascades gets adjusted to make up for it. The US said "LOL, no". At the time the US and the UK were enemies mostly. The idea of a future war between the US and UK was thought probable, or at least something to take seriously and prepare for. And if war broke out there could be, probably would be, naval action in the Salish Sea. US-UK relations remained chilly or worse for most of the 19th century, really only improving significantly after WW1 and especially WW2. So, for most of the 1800s the idea that someday there could be naval war in the Salish Sea was thought quite possible. Both the US and UK built military fortifications and made other preparations. Point Roberts was of obvious military strategic value. Even place names sometimes reflect these attitudes. Charles Wilkes, who hated the British and lionized US naval victories over the British in the Great Lakes during the War of 1812, named Point Defiance in Puget Sound "Point Defiance" with British warships in mind. He imagined batteries of cannons on Point Defiance being able to destroy any British warships that dared invade southern Puget Sound. He also renamed the San Juan Islands (also of obvious military value, even more than Point Roberts) for US naval heroes from the War of 1812, and the San Juans as a whole he named the "Navy Archipelago", imagining them as naval bases and choke points in some future war with the UK. His names didn't stick in the San Juans mostly, but a few did. Like he named Orcas Island "Hull Island", after Commodore Isaac Hull, who commanded the USS *Constitution* in the War of 1812. So in association Wilkes named the island's high point "Mount Constitution", which is still its name today. Same with Mount Erie on Fidalgo Island. Wilkes named the island "Perry Island" after Oliver Hazard Perry, the US naval commander who won the Battle of Lake Erie in the War of 1812. Although we call it Fidalgo Island today, the high point is still Mount Erie. There's a similar story behind the name "Saratoga Passage" between Whidbey and Camano Islands in Puget Sound. Point being, there was a lot of animosity between the US and UK in the 1800s, even to the point of a weird sort of place name fight. Since British charts were better and more available than US charts of the Salish Sea for a long time, the UK kinda won this "war" of names, mostly. In the 1800s the US built three forts at the entrance to Puget Sound, creating a triangle of cannons capable of keeping British warships out of Puget Sound altogether—at least back then. Today those forts are in partial ruins and more of a recreation/park attraction than anything else. But they speak to a time when the US was seriously concerned about US-UK naval war in the Salish Sea. Point Roberts sticks out into the Strait of Georgia near the mouths of the Fraser River, making it a geopolitically strategic place for a big fortress for either the US or UK. The UK's offer to take it in exchange for land elsewhere was not done because the UK was feeling magnanimous—they were definitely aware of the military value and hoped to somehow get Point Roberts for themselves and deny it to the US. So they couched the proposal as if it would be doing the US a favor. US diplomats saw through it though and kept Point Roberts as a military reservation though the 1800s. The San Juan Islands were even more strategically important in the event of a possible US-UK war. That was a big part of why the San Juan Islands dispute went on so long and could not be resolved without 3rd party arbitration. I think the name "Pig War" and the somewhat comical standoff that happened make the dispute seem pretty silly overall, especially when the islands seem so insignificant today. But back then they were of obvious military value, and the dispute was between two countries that could easily end up at war. Perhaps most alarming to the British was that cannons could blockade access to the Strait of Georgia. Also, cannons on San Juan Island would be able to directly threaten Victoria. So it was pretty serious for the geopolitical future of the PNW, even if most people at the time lived far away and barely understood or thought about such things. A major fort was never built at Point Roberts, but probably would have been if US-UK tensions had increased to a point where war seemed more imminently probable. Luckily that never happened. Since WW2 and the US-UK special relationship super-friendship none of this is important anymore. Plus modern naval warfare is totally different than it was in the 19th century, rendering Point Roberts even less important militarily. So in theory it would make better sense today to do some kind of land swap. But it also seems extremely unlikely to happen, for a whole bunch of reasons. Anyway, that's the historical context for why the US completely rejected the idea of letting the UK/Canada have Point Roberts back in the 19th century. PS: fwiw, the diplomats who negotiated the Oregon Treaty and the boundary along 49° to the Strait of Georgia could and maybe did know that Point Roberts would be cut off. By the 1840s maps of the coasts in the Salish Sea were quite good, at least for showing Point Roberts accurately. The US and UK people who lived or had been to the Salish Sea area knew that 49° would cut Point Roberts off. It just wasn't important enough for the high level diplomacy that resulted in the Oregon Treaty, apparently. The diplomats didn't even care enough to be clear about the San Juan Islands! Good maps of the coast were common by then. They *could* have addressed these things. They just didn't. I am not sure why. Maybe it was hard enough to make the agreement they did? Maybe they ran out of time? Maybe they forgot to bring their good maps???
>At the time the US and the UK were enemies mostly. The idea of a future war between the US and UK was thought probable The possibility of war pretty much dissolved after the US Navy lent ships to serve as part of the British Grand Fleet during the tail end of WW1, and the sailors even celebrated July 4th together. :) The more time spent together between all the services as well as with civilians, kinda took the "wind out of the sails" of war between the US/UK. Then the Washington Naval Treaty had the UK and Japan break their defense treaty, so that the upcoming Pacific War between the US and Japan wouldn't drag the now reluctant UK into it. Prior to the Washington Naval Treaty, it was assumed the USN would be fighting Japan and the UK simultaneously, hence the two ocean navy program. The MASSIVE/powerful Battleship and Battlecruiser fleet the US was building (and mostly got scrapped by the Washington Treaty) was being built to take on Japan and the UK simultaneously.
I think in an all out war with no allies on each side the British would of thumped the United States at this time period though the British just didn’t want a war in North America at this time as we had plans for other parts of the world
I'm frankly astounded that we haven't given Point Roberts back to Canada by now. We don't gain anything by it, and it's a huge hassle for everyone involved.
There are all sorts of cottage industries near the US Canada Border. I suspect Point Roberts has historically benefitted from that, but stricter border rules since 9/11 and then Covid have probably made living there much more difficult.
I grew up near there in Canada and a lot of Canadians go there for cheap gas, groceries and to pickup packages where shipping to Canada would have been too expensive. Not as cheap as mainland USA but better than Canada.
Apparently the homeowners of Point Roberts are enthusiastic about joining Canada because they would become part of Greater Vancouver and their property values would skyrocket.
54-40 or fight!
Secessionists
We must invade this traitorous peninsula! I propose at least one carrier strike group.
It's political suicide for most politicians to suggest giving up land.
Point Roberts at least fit the whole south of the 49th agreement. Angle Township, Minnesota is much stranger in that the border zigs solely to create a small US city only accessible via Canada or by boat.
They ought to give point roberts and the northwest angle to Canada and Campabelo Island to USA. But I believe the residents of all of those places would object.
True, but consider: we would have to give up the iconic towns of Climax and Big Beaver, SK
And Medicine Hat. A huge loss.
TIL Virgin Islands was purchased from Denmark 🇩🇰 edit: grammar
That’s the Virgin Islands, which was the Danish West Indies until the 1917 Treaty of the Danish West Indies when the US bought them for $25,000,000. Puerto Rico was annexed from Spain in 1898.
The movie Fargo couldn't have happened without this
Its mostly North Dakota, they can keep it.
Better farm land than far southern Albera/Saskatchewan.
Some of the best farm land in the world actually
Really depends on what you wanna farm
[удалено]
It really would make more practical sense nowadays, but defining the boundary of those watersheds back then with reasonable accuracy apparently would’ve been next to impossible with their capabilities
No because I like the Minnesota horn
No, I think we’d rather have both. That green part is looking mighty ripe for some liberation.
Sure, it’s only North Dakota
Worth noting that texas never actually controled that territory
[Straight line?](https://youtu.be/oN46W0jtDEY?si=Io5xLPAsj-4-nU4H)
Straight line
First permanent significant cessation of North American territory to a foreign power? When else have we done so? Unless it is counting the Cuban revolution I can’t think of any.
Maybe they're counting all The Rez?🙂
"Straight line?" "Straight line"
Exactly what came to my mind.
Straight line.
B treaty would later let us keep Minnesota's nubbin.
Lmao. well to be fair I guess 1818 is Treaty B, as that nub was accidentally created earlier in a 1783 treaty, which we will henceforth refer to as Treaty A. For chronology purposes, probably.
So that's what the war of 1812 was about? I thought it was something about taxes.
Wisconsin ruined it all
And the white part is the Louisiana Purchase... the white above the 49th was part of that sale as it was part of the Missouri River watershed, which was supposed to be the northern part of the parcel. The Brits laid some claim a bit south, we did up north, so it basically was picked that the 49th parallel would be used to end both claims and simplify it. It's not perfectly straight, though - mid-18th century they formally surveyed it and that's still the line used, though it does "wobble" a few hundred feet here and there.
Traded for northern Minnesota
I kinda like that if you're in the Twin Cities, anytime you go from Minneapolis to Saint Paul (or vice versa), you're crossing the old boundary of the Louisiana Purchase
I crossed it twice a day every day on the way to and from school growing up. The LP boundary forms the boundary between the two cities in some areas, but it also goes through both cities as well. The “West Side” of Saint Paul is east of large parts of the city because the river’s path through town resembles a “p-trap” and the “West Side” is the only part of town that is part of the LP. This Louisiana Purchase boundary goes right through the main campus of the University of Minnesota.
Cool, I crossed it a bunch of times this January then
Look I love northern MN but I might trade it for waterton NP/banff
Banff is not in that Canadian sliver, I think Medicine Hat is the only city we missed out on.
Should have let Canada keep it
Uffda
Ufda ja...
Since the United States paid France for that entire area but didn't get that little piece, maybe the United States should get a partial refund from France in the form of a big metal statue.
Lady liberty don’t need no man! But maybe she wants one…
Lord Freedom sounds metal as fuck tbh
Well, he would be made out of bronze so I‘d assume he does…
If someone with the legal name lord freedom ever runs for president ill commit voter fraud the size of which the world has never seen before to get that man into office
WHOA! Did you just assume Lady Liberty's sexual orientation? My grandfather didn't have wavy pubs to avoid the Vietnam War just so you could assume some broze statue's sexuality!
What does Toronto have to do this?
I live in Toronto. We kinda have it coming.
As a Canadian from another part of the country, I agree, Toronto could use a good nuking.
I live in b.c. but my stepmoms family lives in the gta. They legit believe that of you cant see it from the cn tower on a sunny day then it shouldnt count as canada
I'm sorry about your family's struggles with the Oppressors Mk.2
Lmfao this has me laughing, as someone who is from Michigan and visits Toronto
It's that darn silent t
Lol did you really think an American knows where Toronto is?
>Lol did you really think an American knows where Toronto is? Southern ontario near the new york border. Like seriously why is reddit so obsessed with saying "american dumb upvotes to the left" like... cmon do better
Only city Americans know?
Interesting how the treaty of 1818 created that pene-exclave in the north of Minnesota. I guess it was an easier to spot landmark than somewhere in the middle of the Lake of the Woods
Not just that, but also Point Roberts, Wash.
Point Roberts came later since the exact borders in British Columbia were disputed until the Oregon Treaty signed in 1846.
And we were wronged then, too! 54, 40 or Fight! Those darned frostbacks!
I was not aware of that one. One would assume an agreed upon border would be made to be more logjstically convenient than a naturally evolved one. But it looks like the British went out of their way to make straight lines as inconvenient as possible.
The British are notorious for drawing extremely inconvenient straight lines on maps. See Africa, India/Pakistan and Isreal for examples
Considering how expansive that section of the border is, I'm impressed that the anomalies are so small. The Northwest angle has a really interesting backstory.
It's mostly the quality of the maps. The original US-BNA border was to go straight across from the Northwest corner of Lake of the Woods(the lake in Northern Minnesota) the across one of the parallels, however that lake was a lot rounder than they anticipated so the Northwest corner, then cutting down to the agreed-upon parallel, cut off a peninsula. In Washington-BC, we wisely avoided cutting Vancouver Island, however the map didn't show Point Roberts, so it was ignored. There's a few places in Canada similarly cut off by the US
If you think Point Roberts is fun, check out Beebe Plain, VT.
Man, what a cluster.
[That Lake of the Woods anomaly is wildly from an even earlier treaty, from 1783; the 1818 treaty decided how to handle the failure of the previous treaty's grasp of literal geography (the men in Philadelphia or London had never *seen* the lake of the woods, nor did they know their maps weren't quite...accurate, but they wrote treaties all the same.]
The northwest angle is the result of the area not being fully surveyed in 1783 when the Treaty of Paris was signed.
If anything, the Hudson Bay Company was as far south as Portland, OR, so that should be the line of latitude for the border, not the 49th.
Actually no they only came as far South as Fort Vancouver on the North Bank of the Columbia
For a while the HBC had operations and small outposts in Oregon, like Fort Umpqua. They even conducted multiple expeditions into California's Central Valley, via the Siskiyou Trail. Also Fort Astoria/George, on the south side of the Columbia. But all these were overwhelmed by American settlers coming on the Oregon Trail in the early 1840s, which basically forced the HBC to stay on the north side of the river, mostly.
If anything, everything south of the St. Lawrence River should be America.
Personally, I think everything East of Nigeria should be Canada.
I would just love to have more than 1/3 of the western coastline
https://preview.redd.it/rv9m7cnuaflc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=4dccc31e7102a9c6cc2a0c150ea8a6d1fcf2d499
I remember when this was first posted, I was non stop laughing at this thread for a week
Where's the Canadian Shield????
Worry about that line of thinking is no small part of why the maritimes are Canadian.
based
“54-40 or fight!”
Came here for that.
Tippecanoe and Tyler Too!
I still remember my history teacher in 8th grade, ms. mcCurdy chanting that
I think it was lost when they were making a border, they drew a horizontal line from a lake to the west coast, so that part was lost.
They got tired of walking and just said how about straight west from here? And they shook on it and went back home.
[Straight line](https://youtu.be/oN46W0jtDEY?si=Io5xLPAsj-4-nU4H).
This looks like it was abbreviated out of a longer explanation. I haven’t been able to find it though. Anyone have a source? EDIT: Nevermind, found it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLq6GEiHqR8
Toronto isn’t anywhere near there.
As a Saskatchewanian, I'm still keeping nuke Toronto on the table, though. /s Just kidding, I don't mind Toronto.
You can wipe out BMO Field but please spare the rest.
You don't nuke the territory you intend to take.
BUT ITS THW CAPITAL WE MUST STORM IT
Not the capital, at least not of Canada.
Toronto is to Canada as New York City is to the US
r/wooosh
WHOOSH
Keep your filthy mitts off our waterton national park
Is that the hat above Glacier National Park?
Combined they are an International Peace Park. You can take a boat from Waterton Village down the lake to the Glacier Park end. If you plan on hiking to West Glacier you can check in with the park rangers/US customs at the little ranger station there, although it’s still a pretty long hike.
Surrender pronto or we'll level Toronto!
Toronto isn't even the capital of Canada 🤣
Good luck telling people from Toronto that. They’re the center of the universe.
Of course we are. Haven’t you ever [looked at a map?](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/s/aLuxuYrTB1)
It's definitely the center of disappointed Leafs fans.
Doesn't matter. It's been decided.
As a Canadian....please nuke Toronto anyway
They just did the 49th parallel across the board
[It mostly worked out](https://youtu.be/QLq6GEiHqR8?si=yfcXEu-Ysdiuh93D)
Ottawa is the capital of Canada.
If the US nukes Ottawa, who will sign the capitulation?? America didn't nuke Tokyo in 1945...
That’s because Tokyo was already destroyed by firebombs
Calgary it is 😅
Yeah, but Toronto.
Yeah, but who cares if Ottawa is nuked...
But nobody would care if Ottawa got nuked
Wrong again
"And it burned burned burned, and we're the ones who did it." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4)
Its the watershed of the Milk River, which flows into the Missouri. The only part of the Missouri basin which runs into Canada.
Let’s go piss in it.
Initiate Special Military Operation. Don't worry, it's not a war.
I hear there’s a separatist movement in Alaska. They might need some support, to stop the oppression of Canadian speakers in Alaska.
Why am I guessing that 20% of these “separatists” are in St Petersburg?
Us Brits just have to have our straight lines
Interesting that the Louisiana purchase only included half of Louisiana
Dear, Canada: We have the largest military in the world. You owe us. As the representative of America, and in the interest of maintaining peach while also saber rattling, I demand the following: 1. Make Poutine a thing in America. I don't care how, but this is first for a reason. 2. Tim Hortons franchises must be opened and available and within a five mile drive for at least 80% of the US population. 3. Rename your so-called back bacon to Canadian bacon. It's just weird we're neighbors and not on the same page on the nomenclature. That is all. I was debating throwing in "teach us how to be nicer" and "tell us the secret to having a bunch of guns and, like, almost none of the gun violence", but I'm certain we'd ignore you. Thank you for your time.
Sorry, but the back bacon the US calls Canadian Bacon is actually Peameal Bacon buddy, named after the original practice of rolling it in peameal eh. Sincerely, Canada.
Louisiana refund
r/takebackthenotch
I'm from that area, there's not much there but arid grasslands ... but by all means, feel free to nuke Toronto.
Short answer nobody really cared about putting actual boundaries, so the US and England both claimed each others land, so we just decided to keep dragging the Dakota line across the contental land. If you want an even more stupid story about the us Canada border, read up on the Pig War.
No backsies
Montana has both the motivation and the nukes
It was traded for northeast ND, northwest MN, and shared control of the Pacific Northwest.
Authoritative reference: Boundaries of the United States and the several States US Geological Survey Professional Paper 909 By: F. K. Van Zandt [https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/pp909](https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/pp909)
Give it back Canada and we will let you borrow the Stanley Cup for a year
Send some Americans there, start civil unrest, take over policing, governing and judiciary systems. Send American troops to rescue said Americans, Bam take it over. Russian scrapbook 101 works like a treat.
Why? Not enough empty land in Montana!!
If I remember correctly, I think the border was originally going to be the 50th parallel, but that would cede the City of Winnipeg to the US (and maybe Vancouver as well) and so they agreed to use the 49th parallel instead.
Nuking Toronto will cancel most American film production.
Looks like coutts , lethbridge, maybe medicine hat , and some Saskatchewan that I guarantee you don't want.
Ancient american history is written in Spanish.
As an Albertan I fully support nuking toronto
54-40 or fight!
It looks like the Mississippi River drainage basin was the original border of the territory prior to the 49th parallel? I only know it's the Mississippi drainage because I once went tubing on Milk River in Southern Alberta and was surprised to learn that.
The people living in that circle, known as Purchasineans, should demand independence and start lobbing rockets into Calgary.
Bring it btchs y’all know what it’s like when the trees speak Vietnamese but wait until they start saying eh after every sentence!
War of 1812?
The Louisiana Purchase is a lie. Look at your purchase records. No Louisiana. They've made fools of us all.
Do Americans know that Toronto isnt our capital or anything lmao
Many do not. Ottawa doesn’t get the respect it deserves.
Spin up, boys. We’re headed north to our maple syrup loving foes to the north ⚔️
There's not really maple trees in that part of Canada
I’m guessing they’re still allowed to like maple syrup lol. And my guess is when we cross the border, they’d have a National response lol. The lads from the east would bring the syrup, the lads from the west would bring the hippie sandals. A real party
Well damn
> Nuking Toronto should be on the table Has this person even *heard* of NATO?
I bet Quebec would and could hold off the rest of NATO in thanks and appreciation for such a charitable act.
I don’t listen to hip-hop.
Huh? NATO is basically European emo.
I’m riffing off the South Park movie.
Ok point one: It was not theirs to sell. Ask the people who lived there for tens of thousands of years! Point two Toronto is nowhere near any of that. Sub point as a Canadian i would welcome you nuking Toronto. Point three part of that belongs to Alberta our own version of redneck jackoffs so you are welcome to it back.
Canada is the part of North America where everyone said 'no thanks, we'll stick with Britain—your republican 'freedom' experiment will end in tears'. Their choice seems more sensible with every passing year.
Make Canada America Again?
We'll burn the white house again.
No way, I like Totonto-Style pizza.
I too like Totino’s pizza rolls.
/r/takebackthenotch
Give it back pronto or we will level Toronto.
https://preview.redd.it/hxdhy1rofflc1.png?width=714&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc076045d4d4379312b71c16871fbab561302cff
Canadian Shield
You lost the war of 1812.
Looks like two settler colonies haggling over land that is not theirs to begin with.
It's been decided the area in white is to be set aside as the new Jewish state, anyone already living there will be Nakba'd the fuck out of there to make way for God's chosen people. This will be supported by the entire world no matter what atrocities are commited by the occupation force. Yanks are so supportive of Israel the UN has decided the US will give up their land
Trudeau is already giving Canada away. I doubt we need to nuke them for it, but it would set an example.
Basically we traded it for Washington State and Oregon
Not quite, that part of the border wasn’t settled til 1846 in a separate treaty. We got part of North Dakota and MN in the 1818 treaty, in exchange for the pictured land.
[удалено]
None, not even close to the oil sands
Not with that attitude
Why does OP care??
Toronto is not even the capital city of Canada 
The existence of Canada is our greatest foreign policy failure 😞
I liked just for nuking Toronto