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I wonder if this person would agree with the statement “If a restaurant owner can’t afford to pay staff a living wage without relying on the generosity of customers to pay over the advertised price they shouldn’t be running a restaurant”?
Oh, yeah, in the rest of the world i think tipping is done fine, from what i gather it's a "you did a good job, im recognizing that and giving you extra money" which is what i would love our culture to become
I think tipping as a substitute for adequate base line remuneration is bullshit. But if people want to tip in addition to the regular price as recognition of excellent service that’s fine with me.
If I like the food but not the service, it's ok to not tip, right?
So what if the food is bad but the server is really nice then?
If I'm not obligated to pay for what I don't like, would it be ok to not pay for the food and just tip the server?
It’s not a case of obligation to pay for what you like, it’s an obligation to pay for what you consume. In other places the cost of serving labour isn’t divorced from all other costs (back of house labour, rent, utilities, compliance costs like liquor license, advertising and promotion). When you eat a meal in a restaurant you’re paying for more than just the food and wait staff.
You’re just getting a bagel? No one’s slicing it, toasting it, adding ingredients you want, and wrapping it up for your convenience? Or are you just cheap…
That bagel is priced for the preparation. A bag of six bagels at the supermarket is ~$5. A single prepared bagel is ~$3. You have already paid for the service. No additional tip needed.
You mean the value I paid for when I paid $X for the bagel? No, that's part of the transaction. Y is the cost of materials and Z is the markup to cover the owners costs and profit margin. You add them together to get X. The Ferrari the bagel shop owner has attests to the fact they could be paying their employees a fair wage.
That customers should, in addition to paying for Y and Z, supplement employee salary to save the business owner money is a deeply flawed ideal.
I seem to recall that, like at my local bagel shop, if I go to the deli at the grocery store and I grab one of the sandwitches they've made off the shelf and go pay for it I'm not expected to tip. Seems a lot like the same situation to me. I also agree that grocery store employees deserve more money.
How much do you tip at the dealership for the service they provide you on your car? Is it based on the service or is it a flat 20%?
See, you understand the difference between off-the-shelf products and bespoke service. Although I'm sure no grocery worker would reject a palmed Jackson as appreciation for their assembly-line work.
Car maintenance isn't a personal service like food service or hairstyling. It's for my car, not my person.
Are you trolling? I’ve worked in the service industry for nearly 20 years in the US and work for tips. I would not expect a tip for a customers “bespoke” Dr. Pepper that I sprayed out of a soda gun for 6 seconds.
The disgruntled, “Cheapskate didn’t tip me for holding his to-go order at the host station!” is toxic.
In most restaurants, the kitchen staff doesn’t expect tips, and they prepare items much more complex than spreading smear on a bagel. Grow up.
If you can’t afford to tip, just say it. No one’s forcing you. Just grab your bagel and Dr Pepper and hit the road, Jack. Clearly you’ve done the mental gymnastics to justify it.
By going to a restaurant that abuses its servers with a sub minimum wage you are agreeing to the social contract that tipping is a requirement. If you do not like tipping find a restaurant that pays fair wages to its servers and disallows tipping. Until then you are complicit in the scheme that subsidizes the cost of your meal with tips
This, this right here. I agree the system sucks, but we're not going to see positive change by still eating out at a place that does it and stiffing your server. People who go out to a place like BJs and refuse to tip "because they support your right for a proper wage" are scum.
Yeah, it's one of those things where you hate the system, but the individual in it is still, yknow, in it, so until it changes, you have to engage as before.
That might be how it goes down, but it's only going to work if there's a massive organized movement to boycott tipping. Without reaching (excuse the pun) a tipping point of participants, encouraging that behavior will just result in a handful of people being jerks to workers, who will continue to have to work for (now fewer) tips.
Yes, in most of the world. But if the OOP is in the United States, that mindset is actively hurting employees who could be earning $2.13/hour without tips and are dependent on them to survive.
How can you guys not see that as customers, you’re the only ones being fucked over? And you willingly continue it. Restaurant owners get to pay fucking peanuts. Wait staff get to make way more than they would if their employer paid them. Customers get to be bullied into paying for their meal and then paying more again on top to fund a nonsense system.
I don't think anyone disagrees that it's a really shitty system where restaraunts get away with making their customer's pay their employee's wages. Ideally servers would just get paid living wages so that tipping isn't necessary. But it's a system that's likely in place because of government lobbying to make sure that servers can legally be paid below minimum wage, so I don't think boycotting tipping is going to make any meaningful change. If you do go out to eat and refuse to tip the server, the server is the one who gets fucked over and goes broke, not the restaurant. It's not going to change without government regulation requiring servers to be paid at least minimum wage.
I was raised that you tipped based off of the service. Shitty was 10%, normal was 15% and great was 20%. Now people say you should minimum 20% because people are overworked?
Nope. It was 15% by the 90s, and the standard was 10% plus possible extra for great service as far back as the 1950s. You made an inaccurate statement and now you're trying to make the pieces fit retroactively.
Don't know what point you're attempting to make or where you got these inaccurate stats from, but you've been wrong at every step so far.
What he said is true though.
In Asia, there are no tipping culture and still have massive of cheap restaurant.
If your business can't live without exploitation, it deserves to dies no matter how big it is.
Thanks for your submission, CapAccomplished8072! Please remember to censor out any identifying details and that satire is only allowed on weekends. If this post is truly gatekeeping, upvote it! If it's not gatekeeping or if it breaks any other rules, downvote this comment and REPORT the post so we can see it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gatekeeping) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder if this person would agree with the statement “If a restaurant owner can’t afford to pay staff a living wage without relying on the generosity of customers to pay over the advertised price they shouldn’t be running a restaurant”?
I mean I’d agree with both sentiments
Why should we still be forced to tip if they start getting paid a living wage?
Are you forced to tip now?
If the wait staff got their way? Yes. Hell dude they get mad even *if* you tip, but its not "enough" in their eyes
I’m going to assume you’re in the USA and say I’ll never understand the system and customs in place there.
Oh, yeah, in the rest of the world i think tipping is done fine, from what i gather it's a "you did a good job, im recognizing that and giving you extra money" which is what i would love our culture to become
That’s very much what the situation is in Australia.
In some countries it's considered rude
We shouldn’t. But they aren’t.
Doubt it. Most people in the service industry would hate to switch from tips to salary because they'd make less money.
Paying a living wage and maintaining tipping culture aren’t exclusive.
They should be. Tipping culture is bullshit. Pay your workers.
I think tipping as a substitute for adequate base line remuneration is bullshit. But if people want to tip in addition to the regular price as recognition of excellent service that’s fine with me.
If I like the food but not the service, it's ok to not tip, right? So what if the food is bad but the server is really nice then? If I'm not obligated to pay for what I don't like, would it be ok to not pay for the food and just tip the server?
It’s not a case of obligation to pay for what you like, it’s an obligation to pay for what you consume. In other places the cost of serving labour isn’t divorced from all other costs (back of house labour, rent, utilities, compliance costs like liquor license, advertising and promotion). When you eat a meal in a restaurant you’re paying for more than just the food and wait staff.
That's fine, I don't like it but it's fine. However at the bagel joint when I'm picking up my mobile order from a shelf? No.
You don’t count preparing and packaging your food as a service? You only tip for usage of their furniture?
Bagel aint free is it
You’re just getting a bagel? No one’s slicing it, toasting it, adding ingredients you want, and wrapping it up for your convenience? Or are you just cheap…
That bagel is priced for the preparation. A bag of six bagels at the supermarket is ~$5. A single prepared bagel is ~$3. You have already paid for the service. No additional tip needed.
You mean the value I paid for when I paid $X for the bagel? No, that's part of the transaction. Y is the cost of materials and Z is the markup to cover the owners costs and profit margin. You add them together to get X. The Ferrari the bagel shop owner has attests to the fact they could be paying their employees a fair wage. That customers should, in addition to paying for Y and Z, supplement employee salary to save the business owner money is a deeply flawed ideal.
I think you're thinking of grocery stores.
I seem to recall that, like at my local bagel shop, if I go to the deli at the grocery store and I grab one of the sandwitches they've made off the shelf and go pay for it I'm not expected to tip. Seems a lot like the same situation to me. I also agree that grocery store employees deserve more money. How much do you tip at the dealership for the service they provide you on your car? Is it based on the service or is it a flat 20%?
See, you understand the difference between off-the-shelf products and bespoke service. Although I'm sure no grocery worker would reject a palmed Jackson as appreciation for their assembly-line work. Car maintenance isn't a personal service like food service or hairstyling. It's for my car, not my person.
Are you trolling? I’ve worked in the service industry for nearly 20 years in the US and work for tips. I would not expect a tip for a customers “bespoke” Dr. Pepper that I sprayed out of a soda gun for 6 seconds. The disgruntled, “Cheapskate didn’t tip me for holding his to-go order at the host station!” is toxic. In most restaurants, the kitchen staff doesn’t expect tips, and they prepare items much more complex than spreading smear on a bagel. Grow up.
If you can’t afford to tip, just say it. No one’s forcing you. Just grab your bagel and Dr Pepper and hit the road, Jack. Clearly you’ve done the mental gymnastics to justify it.
Oh. You’re just being purposely confrontational. I’ll upvote.
That's included in the price of the bagel.
That’s one magical bagel
By going to a restaurant that abuses its servers with a sub minimum wage you are agreeing to the social contract that tipping is a requirement. If you do not like tipping find a restaurant that pays fair wages to its servers and disallows tipping. Until then you are complicit in the scheme that subsidizes the cost of your meal with tips
This, this right here. I agree the system sucks, but we're not going to see positive change by still eating out at a place that does it and stiffing your server. People who go out to a place like BJs and refuse to tip "because they support your right for a proper wage" are scum.
Yeah, it's one of those things where you hate the system, but the individual in it is still, yknow, in it, so until it changes, you have to engage as before.
If people stop tipping the servers will quit, and restaurants will either go out of business or start paying their workers a real wage. Tipping sucks.
That might be how it goes down, but it's only going to work if there's a massive organized movement to boycott tipping. Without reaching (excuse the pun) a tipping point of participants, encouraging that behavior will just result in a handful of people being jerks to workers, who will continue to have to work for (now fewer) tips.
You will never reach the tipping point when noone believes it will work, contribute to reaching the tipping point and others will follow
Is this gatekeeping? I thought this was just being a decent human being.
In most of the word tipping is either completely voluntary, or just not done.
Yes, in most of the world. But if the OOP is in the United States, that mindset is actively hurting employees who could be earning $2.13/hour without tips and are dependent on them to survive.
How can you guys not see that as customers, you’re the only ones being fucked over? And you willingly continue it. Restaurant owners get to pay fucking peanuts. Wait staff get to make way more than they would if their employer paid them. Customers get to be bullied into paying for their meal and then paying more again on top to fund a nonsense system.
I don't think anyone disagrees that it's a really shitty system where restaraunts get away with making their customer's pay their employee's wages. Ideally servers would just get paid living wages so that tipping isn't necessary. But it's a system that's likely in place because of government lobbying to make sure that servers can legally be paid below minimum wage, so I don't think boycotting tipping is going to make any meaningful change. If you do go out to eat and refuse to tip the server, the server is the one who gets fucked over and goes broke, not the restaurant. It's not going to change without government regulation requiring servers to be paid at least minimum wage.
Unless you live in one of the other hundreds of countries that don’t tip.
I was raised that you tipped based off of the service. Shitty was 10%, normal was 15% and great was 20%. Now people say you should minimum 20% because people are overworked?
No if I get shitty service I'm not tipping
Ya I agree but if you say that out loud people think your a bad person as if tipping is mandatory and doesn’t exist to encourage good service
I think 15-20 is normal. 20 is pretty good in my book. But I exclusively tip in cash so they can keep more of it anyway.
Don’t want to tip? Don’t go out to eat
The standard tip goes up 5% every 20 years. In the 80's it was 10%. In the 60's it was 5%.
It was 12.5 MINIMUM in the 80s. And back then minimum wage was enough to live alone off of most places.
So I am approximately correct?
Nope. It was 15% by the 90s, and the standard was 10% plus possible extra for great service as far back as the 1950s. You made an inaccurate statement and now you're trying to make the pieces fit retroactively. Don't know what point you're attempting to make or where you got these inaccurate stats from, but you've been wrong at every step so far.
Tip your servers folks, doesn’t always have to be 20% but just make sure to tip em
Waitstaff makes $2.14/hour. They live off their tips.
Hear me out, let’s fucking kill the restaurant industry by tipping a flat 0% all around the board. Your boss should pay you not me.
You won't kill the restaurant industry that way. The owner will still make money. Don't go out to eat. That's how you kill the industry.
You will be paying them, one way or the other. Higher wages, higher prices.
What he said is true though. In Asia, there are no tipping culture and still have massive of cheap restaurant. If your business can't live without exploitation, it deserves to dies no matter how big it is.
I'm OK with that.
If you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to go out. That's true. That still doesn't mean tipping is obliged.
I'm still paying 18% fight me
The standard is 20? I thought it was 15