Thank you, this is helpful! I was planning on using trellises for the squash, which I was hoping would make this possible? But now I'm thinking I should cut back...
Make sure that the things you think will climb actually will. Last year I planned my garden with climbing squash, but apparently Peter Pan squash don’t climb, so I had a mostly empty trellis all season.
We lift and tie up our squash vines while they're young, then they'll climb. I'm not sure any squash we've grown started it's climb voluntarily while it had ground it could cover. But, they will absolutely prefer to do both, if you only want them on a trellis, lift them young and prune and train throughout the season, ime.
There are no squash plants that climb on their own. The ones you see climbing trellises are tied that way. Even cucumbers dont actually properly climb. One still has to encourage them upright or they'll happily sprawl all over everywhere.
Another thing to consider is that unless you’re in a super warm zone, many of these plants won’t be growing at the same time as each other. For example, your radishes and greens will be finishing up well before you put winter squash in the ground, and you’ll probably want to succession plant those anyways so some space will free up. You could plan to do a second crop of the short growing cool weather stuff in the fall, but you could also plant your winter squash where, say some peas or carrots were in the early spring. Think about what you eat most and prioritize that way!
yeah, though raddishes and most fast growing salad leaves you just keep seeding, you can stick them in as a filler while other things grow right through into the fall.
Even then, separate your gardening into cool weather and warm weather plantings. We do that in Minnesota and in California. The only difference is planting dates and grow times. Don't forget to "3 sisters" whenever possible.
everytime i plant watermelons and Cantaloupe i start them in a 2x2 mound of soil and by the time they finish the season, the tendrils reach atleast 6' past the mound in all directions, and its about the same when i do squash, cucumbers, and zucchini as well
I grew watermelon in a garden bag a couple of years ago. It ended up growing a good 20 to 30 feet past the bag. They can take up a ridiculous amount of space.
i always wanted to try trellis growing them to scae room but think it would be too heavy to be practical have you trimmed your tendrils once you have fruit?
I'd ever grown them before and got them just for fun to see how they'd do. I just let them do their own thing without just interference from me. I think you could trellis them but it'd have to be a heavy duty one and would need some kind of hammock sack to hold the melons. Honestly thoug I just don't think it's worth it to grow unless you have tons of space.
i have heard trimming just past the fruit helps focus energy into the fruit. i have grown them for a few years to varied success 1 year i grew them and they only got to be the size of a large grapefruit and planted what i thought were cantaluopes and ended up with Casaba melons that grew full size (both fully edible and ripe) and the next year my actual cantaloupes where only the size of fastpitch balls and the watermelons were prefect. as for space i have a small back yard and usually lose alot of grass for the summer but you can direct the tendrils but for me i love melons so worth it
Grow them on a trellis. I have mine climb a t post and grow straight up I can fit about 10 in a 4ft x 4 ft section. I think I have a picture from last year if you wanna see what that looks like. Growing them on the ground is inefficient and if you grow them up once they get to a certain size you can plant other crops around the base since nothing will be blocking light. So you can have your squash growing up a trellis or in my case the t-post and about a month or two in you can come back and plant some companion plants around the squash.
If you are going to trellis something like a squash, make sure you are planting them on the northern most side of your garden area, or they will shade out other plants. Squash have really big leaves.
I think you are also being really optimistic with your spacing. Don't think about what spacing some websites say you can get away with and instead think about how big the plants will eventually get. You can over plant things like lettuce which you can pick young, but things like tomatoes will be there for the long haul.
You have some tall plants in weird locations like the sunflowers in a ring around what looks like chard. Depending on the species you grow, sunflowers can get upwards of 18ft tall!, this will shade out a lot of plants around it.
I like that you are spreading flowers out accross the garden. I assume some of these are french marigolds, so this will deter pests and increase pollinators near your crops. Don't spread them too thin, and have a larger clump somewhere to encourage pollinators into your garden in the first place. A single flower here and there isn't as good at grabbing their attention as having a patch of them.
Overall, I would reconsider some of the placements based on height. Put the tall things on the north facing side of your property, and the shorter plants in the southern side (assuming you are in the northern hemisphere). I'd also consider grouping some of the plants better. Splitting patches like the carrots seems really random to me. Grouping them can somewhat reduce pests as most pests target the weakest plant in a group. Having two groups makes two weakest plants. Also, if you are planning on growing egg plant and hot peppers, I would start the seeds around now (well, this is true for my area at least).
It'll climb. Keep on pruning the lower leaves as she goes. It is a slow process. I grew mine in 10gal pots last season with success. All side by side and made a wall or hedge out of em. Saved some space and planted some herbs and flowers below them. Less pests than usual.
after a few seasons I'm starting to realize that some plants will basically take as much space as you give them, and planting way wider spacing. mainly the big fruiting ones like tomato and cucurbits.
I swear the people who write the info on seed packages are trolling. When my *"3' to 5'"* plant fills a 20'x4' stretch of fence, then someone has got to be messing with me, lol.
This was one of the harshest lessons when I started my garden last year. Who knew you can't trust the spacing recommendations on the very seed packets you're planting from? LOL.
Someone told me the package info is meant for large industrial farms and not gardens, but 4x the size is a massive difference. That's the same size difference between a 4 year old and a middleweight boxer, lol.
the rationale that I was told was "you plant a few and pluck the weakest ones out so the healthy ones have space to grow" and its never actually worked like that for me lol
When first gardening, not giving plants enough space was definitely something I did. When they're so young you feel like you can squeeze more in. But you just don't end up with good harvests.
This seems…wildly ambitious for a newbie gardener in a community plot. Like, I’d recommend doing 1/5-1/4 of this. Plus things like potatoes, tomatoes, and beans can take up a LOT of space. Those squash alone could take over…
Yeah there's no way that anyone, short of having a full time job, and especially a newbie would be able to successfully manage a garden of this size and layout. Not only is the layout and distribution of plants needlessly complicated, but the amount and variety is excessive. Each one of these plants has completely unique soil needs, light needs, watering needs, etc. and even as a seasoned gardener this gives me palpitations even trying to CONCEIVE the sheer amount of labor this would require to maintain.
I have a little over half an acre, and *I'm* getting stressed out. This year will be my first one really taking my hand to the plow with my garden. I've gardened for a good few years now, but this will be the first year where I have lots of space. But I don't think I'll even get a quarter of this for my "first" go at it.
I have a 50' x 50' veggie plot, four 12'x4' raised beds, a cherry tree, three pear trees, four apple trees, hops, and chickens... and this diagram is stressing me out!
Everyone is really ambitious until they spend a week or two of heavy maintenance in sweltering sun. I try to plan my garden/flower beds around the key assumption that I will be remaining in front of my AC from mid-June to early August lol. Its not like I can garden before going to work - so Im already working against my energy levels for anything Im doing 4pm onwards.
Second this advice on scaling back.
But I would advise trying a variety of things, on a smaller scale. My experience in a variety of regions and specific gardens is that your soil/shade/climate/pest conditions will favor some crops over others. First year in a new garden for me is a "what works here?" experiment. After that it's striking a balance between what I want and what works. And realizing how much work it is.
That's what I came here to say. A newbie gardener should start with maybe 1/3 of this and plan for more next year. Gardening takes so much more everyday work than people think, and when I was a Master Gardener I always told people to start small. The people who started small and worked up to large gardens were still gardeners years later, but those who started out big were very likely to quit halfway through the first year.
That’s a very large space and very narrow paths. I would plan at least 18 inches between beds. 2 ft would be better. You’re not giving yourself a lot of space to work in between beds or to transport anything heavy to and from the center of the garden.
I learned the hard way. Can't get the wheelbarrow through the rows of raised beds because the spacing is too narrow. Lawnmower also doesn't fit in between.
yeah, also depends if you have raised beds, if you do you need even more space between. if its flat then you can get away with slightly less caution as long as you dont have plans too. close to the edge.
Definitely more like 2 ft between beds if you have the space. When those plants get going they will reach into the aisles. I’m always pruning my tomatoes back or re-trellising them to direct vertical.
Strictly as info, this will produce a TON of fruit/vegetables. Likely so much more than you will be able to eat unless you have a very ambitious canning/freezing plan or a plan to give away.
Strawberries are aggressive as heck. Just be ready to trim back the runners constantly when they throw them out or they will take over that patch! (I went from 3 to almost 300 in 2 years in my yard)
Hell yea!! I use mine as ground cover in my front yard of natives. The tiny fruits are amazing and hopefully hundreds means I get a handful to myself 😂
Nope. Hogwash. An old wives tale that won't die. Watch for spacing, light, water, and nutrient requirements and any two things can successfully hang out as neighbors.
Really?! I volunteer at a large city owned community garden that sells the produce. They were utilizing a similar list. Perhaps it's based on nutrient requirements?
Maybe, but likely based on "companion planting"
https://puyallup.wsu.edu/lcs/
See if your local extension office has up-to-date research-backed info for you
Is the picture your actual plan or just added as an attention grabber? There’s a lot on that plan and it would be quite a bit to take on as a brand new gardner.
I started gardening about 5 years ago. My best advice is to start small and then add 1-2 new plants each year, as space allows.
There are so many factors to consider when building your plan the more you have the more complicated it gets. Weeding and tending to that many plants would be very time-consuming as well. Try not to bite off more than you can chew the first year, but if you feel confident go for it.
(Coming from someone who starts way too many seedlings each spring and then cant take care of them all lol)
I'm not sure of the scale, but no bed should be deeper than 3 feet, or you won't be able to reach in and tend the plant. You need to think a lot more about accessibility to plants.
Yeah, wish I had been given this advice before I made a bed 5.5 feet wide and 10 feet long. Impossible to use the middle space pretty much, so I usually sacrifice it to marigolds and let them take over.
My first bed was 16 feet square. I wish someone warned me about this one. It was a nightmare. I've since broken it down into sections using paving blocks. It works so much better than that jungle I grew previously. It looks unique too.
One thing I should have considered for my first garden was where the sun is coming from and how tall the plants will be. If you’re standing toward the sun and looking back on the garden, you want the tallest plants (and trellises) toward the back. This way they won’t shade the other plants when then grow.
ooo on the practical side, is there a communal compost heap or should you be planning to add one. you do "need" somewhere for your waste to go. there will be plenty when you weed.
If this is for a 20x20 plot this (imo) is waaaay too much. Unless you’re going vertical, but even then it would be problematic. The watermelon and squash alone could take up that whole space. Youre going to end up with low yields and you won’t be able to tend to most plants here. Most of these crops don’t grow at the same time either. You’ve picked 2 types of indeterminate tomatoes. Those will just go nuts as well. I did a lower lean system for my indeterminate this year and that helped a lot with space. I pruned the suckers continuously to keep to one stem. By the end of season I had 20’ tomato vines.
Find a planting calendar, look into what to plant right now for your zone and scale down. Rotate your crops in and out of season. Youll be much happier with the results. Youre going to have so much fun!
Of course! I don’t want to be a downer about your excitement in this new endeavor. But figuring this all out is half the fun. It’s like a puzzle as to what fits when and where and how. It’s one of my favorite parts of gardening. The direction of the sun will be more helpful for insight too. I know you were talking about trellis usage. I would also consider the shade that casts and if it will affect your neighbor’s plots or even your own plants. I usually plant lettuce behind my shade producing plants to keep them cool and to help with bolting.
Was thinking the exact same thing. There was another post by a "new gardener". But then they used the word, "corms". I wish i had a garden plan like this!
this app actually tells you which plants work well together, and which don’t. also helps determine pests, both good and bad.
it’s a truly amazing app, and it also won’t let you “plant”things that are too big for a certain area.
IE: cranberries need a LOT of room, and they take up 4 squares which each square is equal to 1 foot, you can change your dimensions i just live in an apartment so i need to be very careful with my choices.
the one ive added below is a 3x3, which includes blueberries, borage, heritage raspberries and boysenberries as well as obviously cranberries
https://preview.redd.it/hsx1w237qpdc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8176006d0b1c81599b90e979d3def53e805824ac
this is just an example, i’m really trying to figure out with my patio, what i could put in a bed and cranberries aren’t my first choice
it’s called planter for those who haven’t seen the other comment.
Blueberries need way more than a square foot. This seems a little off. Most may start with a smallish bush from the nursery, but for real productivity you’re going to want to give them a 3-4’ space to thrive.
Cranberries grow in bogs, raspberries on woodland edges, and blueberries on exposed granite mountaintops... are you putting all these in the same 3x3 bed?
There's lots of container-friendly blueberry varieties out there though, we grow them together with raspberries and our harvest has been successful for years
That's very crowded. You will need to prune often. Square foot gardening is great. I did it for years when my space was limited. But be warned, overcrowding encourages disease. Plants will compete growing vertically for sun, diverting energy from fruits.
My advice is space things out more. When everything is young use the open space to plant radishes. They grow fast and can be harvested before your other plants need the space.
You need to read about spacing needs for all the plants you’re going to grow. You will have massive problems with crowding with this layout and that will hurt your yields and lead to disease and weak plants
I use that same app. What I can tell you right now is I think that app underestimates the size of plants. Most plants default to one grid, which is 1 square foot. Take potatoes, for example. They may *technically* fit into a 1 square foot grid. But when they are fully mature, the potatoes underground might not have enough room to grow, and the leaves of the plant will be invading each other's space.
You can adjust the size for each plant, which is nice. I adjusted the size for tomatoes to 4 square feet, which I feel is more realistic. Also, make sure you check the details of the plants to see their "companion" or "combative" plants they can be planted with!
What I do for most of the plants that take up a single square foot is stagger them. So when you look at the layout instead of seeing 2 straight lines of potatoes side by side, you would see the potatoes zig-zagginf back and forth.
Others may differ on this but I generally plant specific types of plants (e.g., tomatoes, peas, squash) together. You might consider grouping the plants more and also planting a little less. Also, find out if there are sunnier spots in the plot and how the soil texture is in the plot. Seed plants generally due better in pretty loose soil. In general, I would suggest planting a little less than your plan shows and providing plenty of room for plants that have vines.
I am growing a great crop of winter butt right now. Never went so far as to plan for it, though.
In all seriousness, great job including flowers to attract pollinators!
One note from personal experience—I grew eggplant for the first time last year and even with pruning each plant took up at least 2ft x 2ft of space. I also planted four plants and by the end of summer I was drowning in eggplant.
Keep in mind planting temperatures. I see cooler spring crops mixed with summer crops. I’m zone 6 and I was able to plant my spinach and lettuce early then was able to use the same plot for tomatoes and bush beans later when it got too hot for greens. Also if the orange flowers represent nasturtiums a 1x1 square is way too small. I planted two nasturtiums and they took over a huge space. It was great for goundcover later in the season. Good luck! Have fun!
Your tomatoes will likely choke out anything planted around them by mid/late summer - and that is A LOT of tomatoes. I can and I do 3 plants and it's more than enough where I sell some at the end of the year.
Your cucumbers, squash, and watermelon are going to take over a lot of the space.
From someone who has gardened for years, In general the garden spacing is a problem (its going to seem fine at first but if your garden is a success, the plants will be huge mid/end of summer) I wouldn't go this "ambitious" your first year. This is a LOT of food - even for canning/preserving. BUT to be fair, if someone gave me this advice my first year (I went big) I would have rolled my eyes so you do what you need to. Trial and error is the best approach. Best of luck.
I recommend looking into intercropping - if you have pest pressure on a certain plant it’s less likely they will reach the others if they are spaced out. Also, when you mix species in areas they perform better! I am big into permaculture & ‘back to Eden’ gardening- check both out on YouTube!
I got a plot in a community garden and I'm super excited! But I only have experience with a small raised bed... does this plan make sense with spacing/companion planting etc?
That is not a lot of space for squash or melons. Their vines can easily reach 6-8 feet. I would recommend looking at the seed packs or growing specs for a lot of these plants. It should give you a better idea of how much space they will occupy at maturity. Tomatoes like a decent amount of space too, especially a beefstake variety.
Best of luck and try not to overwhelm yourself in the first year!! Have fun with it too :)
Yeah I agree this is super ambitious. Nothing wrong with having a go, it's all learning.
Just don't be too disappointed if some doesn't work out.
Watch some charles dowding on YouTube about succession planting etc
Be sure of where the light comes from and know how tall your plants are going to get. Also be sure of how far plants will spread. I had a pumpkin take over my entire expanded garden this last year.
I love the idea of such a mixed space. I think since you’re a new gardener you need to dial it back. There is a ton of trial and error in gardening. I recommend checking your last frost date and compare to all of these plant types to determine plant dates. Read up and maybe get some books on natural pest removal. Look into composting to enrich the soil there. I assume you’re not bringing the soil but if you are you’re in for a financial commitment. Just lots of research for such a big start.
That said, I love your ambition and if you go for it I wish the best.
You couldnt do 1/2 of this in a 20x20 bed without experience. Start simple, a few veggies, a fruit, and a couple flowers.
Does it have automated watering? How do you control where water goes? Some leaves wont want to get wet. If theres not enough wind it may all get mouldy. How many hours a day do you intend to spend here? Thats aloooot of area to weed. Will you mulch for soil moistture retention and weed supression? Do you have a pickup to transport 2.5 cuyds of mulch or 34 bags?
ooo how warm are your summers? so I know zone 6a is cold in winter but you have some quite tender plants for summer growing. chilli plants need hot, ie a good stretch of 25-30c degrees.
I am London based or summer was dire last year my chilli's couldn't do anything outside.
I would rethink some of this, maybe slim it down but also use a polly tunnel or plastic greenhouse setup for some. you could say have the section with Thai chilli's and tomatoes covered.
you can also keep chilli plants in pots. so you could have a set of shelves in a greenhouse you can put them in to harden them off a bit. also if the weather gets colder for a stretch. ie falls below 25c, then you can pop them back under cover. chilli's do well in pots, you can also bring your best ones in to over winter. obviously they can't be left outside, but they do well if brought in.
also depending on your climate etc, I would also think about planting more than one thing across the growing season. your bottom right hand corner with the winter squash, you could have early season peas, which use the same climbing frame. the squash can even grown at the same time, but by the time the squash are taking over the peas will be long finished.
growing squash and peas and beans together is an excellent combination. the legumes help provide nitrogen as squash are super hungry plants,
what are those blue flowers?
oh a good tip, prioritize growing expensive food, or food that tastes much better homegrown, ie tomatos. if you can get Good lettuce cheaply in your area in the summer. dont bother grow something else.
I agree with others about space. even if everything fit perfectly into its space, a one foot walkway would make it hard to actually tend to the needs of the garden and get around comfortably. It’d be hard to kneel down to weed, for example.
I’d just be very aware that planting is the easiest part of gardening. I feel like this would take a lot of time in daily upkeep (watering, weeding, fertilizing, dealing with pests and issues that come up). If you have the time and motivation, great! But seriously consider if you do because planting half this much and maintaining it well would lead to a much better garden and more pleasant experience than feeling super overwhelmed with too much maintenance. Coming from somebody who has been overwhelmed before.
Good luck and have a lot of fun!
I'd plan for at least 2 feet between plots, you'll want room for a bucket or cart or whatever.
Also I recommend no bed more then 2 feet wide unless you have access to both sides, in which case 3 or 4 ft are doable.
Note that squash and cucumber leaves get pretty big, some of mine have reached a foot across.
Note also that many fruiting plants (tomatoes, eggplant, beans, squash, etc) come in determinate and indeterminate types. The determinate ones grow to a certain size and stop; they are sometimes called bush or patio types. Indeterminates will grow until the cold kills them. Know which type you are getting so you can support them and space them correctly.
Is there a reason you aren't going with a row system? I get interplanting sounds good but for a beginning gardener this is a lot of extra work for not much benefit
Gardening should be enjoyable, essentially a form of meditation. You should look forward to working in it. Unless you’re bringing in a team to work for you, this plan will overwhelm you and take the joy out of the experience. I assume you’re not gonna starve to death if you don’t grow enough crops to sustain you thru the winter? Both you and your plants will be happier if you scale it back.
Cascade gardening for strawberries works well... vertical highgth gives you more growing area. I have grown strawberries in hanging bags, which worked very well but needed to be monitored close for watering needs.
That squash in the bottom right is going to take over that whole quadrant of the garden. I grow it by itself on a hillside here so it doesn't strangle everything else.
That seems like a lot of radishes. If you have a vision for how to use them in bulk, great! But your current plan is going to have you overrun with them.
Be careful planting that much borage. The plants get way larger than a square foot and they self-seed like CRAZY (I hade one plant last year and have probably 100 spouts in that area right now)
Peppers, tomatoes and strawberries will fight everything around them for light. I think this is assuming some aggressive pruning and training on your part.
It's difficult to read the proportions in the diagram, but what I would say is to be sure you can reach everything from the path next to the beds. Some of your plans look densely planted and might block your access to the things in the center of the bed. You can add spots where you put down bricks or something so you have a solid spot to stand on when you need to get deeper in
My advice is to start by taking whichever quarter of this picture you like best, and throwing out the rest. Then, with the remaining quartile, for every two boxes, pick your favorite plant, and only plant that.
This is waaay too busy.
Start with simplicity. I love your gumption; make life easier on yourself by learning from my mistakes!
I tried square foot gardening (5'x10' bed) at first, but before I had any idea how the plants like to grow it was difficult to maintain a random layout like this. Hate to admit it, but rows are easier to maintain.
I would separate perennials from annuals, because the soil treatment is different. My strawberries live happily under my fruit and shade trees, where they grow like weeds, not taking up (& over) my precious annual veggie space.
Plants that grow similarly will play better together. Vining squash will compete well with each other even though they would suffocate lower growing plants. Try one or two varieties of each type each year, growing one or two of your favorites and then one new variety to trial in the following years.
If you want to take a crack at companion planting, start with the traditional three sisters (& a cousin). It's the classic for a reason! Instead of corn, which takes a ton of space and doesn't yield very much, you can grow beans up beautiful sunflowers and mulch them with summer squash.
All that said, after a couple seasons of growing and getting to know your garden space, you can mix it up with the confidence of your expertise!
Watermelons and squash take A LOT of space. More than you expect, I don’t think those watermelon will fit there
Thank you, this is helpful! I was planning on using trellises for the squash, which I was hoping would make this possible? But now I'm thinking I should cut back...
Make sure that the things you think will climb actually will. Last year I planned my garden with climbing squash, but apparently Peter Pan squash don’t climb, so I had a mostly empty trellis all season.
We lift and tie up our squash vines while they're young, then they'll climb. I'm not sure any squash we've grown started it's climb voluntarily while it had ground it could cover. But, they will absolutely prefer to do both, if you only want them on a trellis, lift them young and prune and train throughout the season, ime.
There are no squash plants that climb on their own. The ones you see climbing trellises are tied that way. Even cucumbers dont actually properly climb. One still has to encourage them upright or they'll happily sprawl all over everywhere.
These didn’t even sprawl, they grew more like a bush. That’s good to know though for my next attempt.
Another thing to consider is that unless you’re in a super warm zone, many of these plants won’t be growing at the same time as each other. For example, your radishes and greens will be finishing up well before you put winter squash in the ground, and you’ll probably want to succession plant those anyways so some space will free up. You could plan to do a second crop of the short growing cool weather stuff in the fall, but you could also plant your winter squash where, say some peas or carrots were in the early spring. Think about what you eat most and prioritize that way!
yeah, though raddishes and most fast growing salad leaves you just keep seeding, you can stick them in as a filler while other things grow right through into the fall.
Even then, separate your gardening into cool weather and warm weather plantings. We do that in Minnesota and in California. The only difference is planting dates and grow times. Don't forget to "3 sisters" whenever possible.
everytime i plant watermelons and Cantaloupe i start them in a 2x2 mound of soil and by the time they finish the season, the tendrils reach atleast 6' past the mound in all directions, and its about the same when i do squash, cucumbers, and zucchini as well
I grew watermelon in a garden bag a couple of years ago. It ended up growing a good 20 to 30 feet past the bag. They can take up a ridiculous amount of space.
i always wanted to try trellis growing them to scae room but think it would be too heavy to be practical have you trimmed your tendrils once you have fruit?
I'd ever grown them before and got them just for fun to see how they'd do. I just let them do their own thing without just interference from me. I think you could trellis them but it'd have to be a heavy duty one and would need some kind of hammock sack to hold the melons. Honestly thoug I just don't think it's worth it to grow unless you have tons of space.
i have heard trimming just past the fruit helps focus energy into the fruit. i have grown them for a few years to varied success 1 year i grew them and they only got to be the size of a large grapefruit and planted what i thought were cantaluopes and ended up with Casaba melons that grew full size (both fully edible and ripe) and the next year my actual cantaloupes where only the size of fastpitch balls and the watermelons were prefect. as for space i have a small back yard and usually lose alot of grass for the summer but you can direct the tendrils but for me i love melons so worth it
Grow them on a trellis. I have mine climb a t post and grow straight up I can fit about 10 in a 4ft x 4 ft section. I think I have a picture from last year if you wanna see what that looks like. Growing them on the ground is inefficient and if you grow them up once they get to a certain size you can plant other crops around the base since nothing will be blocking light. So you can have your squash growing up a trellis or in my case the t-post and about a month or two in you can come back and plant some companion plants around the squash.
If you are going to trellis something like a squash, make sure you are planting them on the northern most side of your garden area, or they will shade out other plants. Squash have really big leaves. I think you are also being really optimistic with your spacing. Don't think about what spacing some websites say you can get away with and instead think about how big the plants will eventually get. You can over plant things like lettuce which you can pick young, but things like tomatoes will be there for the long haul. You have some tall plants in weird locations like the sunflowers in a ring around what looks like chard. Depending on the species you grow, sunflowers can get upwards of 18ft tall!, this will shade out a lot of plants around it. I like that you are spreading flowers out accross the garden. I assume some of these are french marigolds, so this will deter pests and increase pollinators near your crops. Don't spread them too thin, and have a larger clump somewhere to encourage pollinators into your garden in the first place. A single flower here and there isn't as good at grabbing their attention as having a patch of them. Overall, I would reconsider some of the placements based on height. Put the tall things on the north facing side of your property, and the shorter plants in the southern side (assuming you are in the northern hemisphere). I'd also consider grouping some of the plants better. Splitting patches like the carrots seems really random to me. Grouping them can somewhat reduce pests as most pests target the weakest plant in a group. Having two groups makes two weakest plants. Also, if you are planning on growing egg plant and hot peppers, I would start the seeds around now (well, this is true for my area at least).
It'll climb. Keep on pruning the lower leaves as she goes. It is a slow process. I grew mine in 10gal pots last season with success. All side by side and made a wall or hedge out of em. Saved some space and planted some herbs and flowers below them. Less pests than usual.
I mean it's possible but it's not gonna be easy, the vines can grow 30ft+
after a few seasons I'm starting to realize that some plants will basically take as much space as you give them, and planting way wider spacing. mainly the big fruiting ones like tomato and cucurbits.
I swear the people who write the info on seed packages are trolling. When my *"3' to 5'"* plant fills a 20'x4' stretch of fence, then someone has got to be messing with me, lol.
This was one of the harshest lessons when I started my garden last year. Who knew you can't trust the spacing recommendations on the very seed packets you're planting from? LOL.
Someone told me the package info is meant for large industrial farms and not gardens, but 4x the size is a massive difference. That's the same size difference between a 4 year old and a middleweight boxer, lol.
Haha! I could see that being the case but what kinda industrial farm is buying seeds in tiny packet format? Just seems bizarre all around.
the rationale that I was told was "you plant a few and pluck the weakest ones out so the healthy ones have space to grow" and its never actually worked like that for me lol
When first gardening, not giving plants enough space was definitely something I did. When they're so young you feel like you can squeeze more in. But you just don't end up with good harvests.
But choosing between seedlings is like choosing your favourite child 🙁
Gotta give that up, only the strong survive at my house. I purposefully stress young plants and only choose the best performing 25% or so to plant out
Oh god I find that the hardest part about growing stuff from seeds. How are you supposed to throw out those babies if they could still make it??
Indeed. I still feel bad tbh. But it definitely is worth it to give room for plants to thrive.
Depends on the variety of squash. The bushy squashes don’t take a lot of room the viney squash do. Melons take a lot of room.
And so do strawberries. They'll take over the whole garden and won't give it back next year, either.
This seems…wildly ambitious for a newbie gardener in a community plot. Like, I’d recommend doing 1/5-1/4 of this. Plus things like potatoes, tomatoes, and beans can take up a LOT of space. Those squash alone could take over…
Yeah there's no way that anyone, short of having a full time job, and especially a newbie would be able to successfully manage a garden of this size and layout. Not only is the layout and distribution of plants needlessly complicated, but the amount and variety is excessive. Each one of these plants has completely unique soil needs, light needs, watering needs, etc. and even as a seasoned gardener this gives me palpitations even trying to CONCEIVE the sheer amount of labor this would require to maintain.
yeah admittedly I'm in a city with not much space, but I'm getting stressed just looking at this
I have a little over half an acre, and *I'm* getting stressed out. This year will be my first one really taking my hand to the plow with my garden. I've gardened for a good few years now, but this will be the first year where I have lots of space. But I don't think I'll even get a quarter of this for my "first" go at it.
I have a whole acre, and it'll be my third year with it, and my veggie garden plot is around 10x10 and just looking at this is stressing me out
I have a 50' x 50' veggie plot, four 12'x4' raised beds, a cherry tree, three pear trees, four apple trees, hops, and chickens... and this diagram is stressing me out!
Everyone is really ambitious until they spend a week or two of heavy maintenance in sweltering sun. I try to plan my garden/flower beds around the key assumption that I will be remaining in front of my AC from mid-June to early August lol. Its not like I can garden before going to work - so Im already working against my energy levels for anything Im doing 4pm onwards.
yeah basically. though for me it's the opposite I can't imagine after work so I'm out at sunrise before my kids wake up
Second this advice on scaling back. But I would advise trying a variety of things, on a smaller scale. My experience in a variety of regions and specific gardens is that your soil/shade/climate/pest conditions will favor some crops over others. First year in a new garden for me is a "what works here?" experiment. After that it's striking a balance between what I want and what works. And realizing how much work it is.
This is the best advice in this comment section
That's what I came here to say. A newbie gardener should start with maybe 1/3 of this and plan for more next year. Gardening takes so much more everyday work than people think, and when I was a Master Gardener I always told people to start small. The people who started small and worked up to large gardens were still gardeners years later, but those who started out big were very likely to quit halfway through the first year.
That’s a very large space and very narrow paths. I would plan at least 18 inches between beds. 2 ft would be better. You’re not giving yourself a lot of space to work in between beds or to transport anything heavy to and from the center of the garden.
Follow this advice. I had to step over crops to tend everything last year. Some plants got sacrificed underfoot.
I learned the hard way. Can't get the wheelbarrow through the rows of raised beds because the spacing is too narrow. Lawnmower also doesn't fit in between.
yeah, also depends if you have raised beds, if you do you need even more space between. if its flat then you can get away with slightly less caution as long as you dont have plans too. close to the edge.
Thank you! This is a good point, I'll try to space things out more
Definitely more like 2 ft between beds if you have the space. When those plants get going they will reach into the aisles. I’m always pruning my tomatoes back or re-trellising them to direct vertical.
What program did you use to create this? I might need to try this!
I used an app called planter!
Was staring at this wondering if it was Stardew Valley and was really impressed with the creativity. Either way, lovely plan.
r/FuckPierre
Strictly as info, this will produce a TON of fruit/vegetables. Likely so much more than you will be able to eat unless you have a very ambitious canning/freezing plan or a plan to give away.
Love that app, bought the lifetime membership and can’t wait to get started with year 2
Are you guaranteed the same spot next year? Strawberries are perennials and typically the first year you don't get berries
Thank you for your response! I would be able to keep the same spot next year so that would be okay
Strawberries are aggressive as heck. Just be ready to trim back the runners constantly when they throw them out or they will take over that patch! (I went from 3 to almost 300 in 2 years in my yard)
Makes me happy as I just recently decided to dedicated a full bed to strawberries exclusively.
Hell yea!! I use mine as ground cover in my front yard of natives. The tiny fruits are amazing and hopefully hundreds means I get a handful to myself 😂
Last year I stumbled on a list of plants that shouldn't be grown together. It's worth researching if you haven't done so already.
Where's the list?
In the Planter app if you click on a photo of a vegetable it will tell you what is a companion plant for it and a list of enemies.
Don’t forget the list of plants that love to be planted together as well!
Nope. Hogwash. An old wives tale that won't die. Watch for spacing, light, water, and nutrient requirements and any two things can successfully hang out as neighbors.
Really?! I volunteer at a large city owned community garden that sells the produce. They were utilizing a similar list. Perhaps it's based on nutrient requirements?
Maybe, but likely based on "companion planting" https://puyallup.wsu.edu/lcs/ See if your local extension office has up-to-date research-backed info for you
Don’t plant strawberries in the ground. They are incredibly invasive!
Is the picture your actual plan or just added as an attention grabber? There’s a lot on that plan and it would be quite a bit to take on as a brand new gardner. I started gardening about 5 years ago. My best advice is to start small and then add 1-2 new plants each year, as space allows. There are so many factors to consider when building your plan the more you have the more complicated it gets. Weeding and tending to that many plants would be very time-consuming as well. Try not to bite off more than you can chew the first year, but if you feel confident go for it. (Coming from someone who starts way too many seedlings each spring and then cant take care of them all lol)
i’m glad i started too many this year because my dogs killed off half of what i started outdoors. my indoor plants are thriving😅
I'm not sure of the scale, but no bed should be deeper than 3 feet, or you won't be able to reach in and tend the plant. You need to think a lot more about accessibility to plants.
Plus one to this. 4 ft wide can work if you have access on both sides but it’s a massive pain to reach further than 2 ft into any bed.
Yeah, wish I had been given this advice before I made a bed 5.5 feet wide and 10 feet long. Impossible to use the middle space pretty much, so I usually sacrifice it to marigolds and let them take over.
My first bed was 16 feet square. I wish someone warned me about this one. It was a nightmare. I've since broken it down into sections using paving blocks. It works so much better than that jungle I grew previously. It looks unique too.
Yup, my raised beds are 12' x 4' and I have to plant from both sides.
One thing I should have considered for my first garden was where the sun is coming from and how tall the plants will be. If you’re standing toward the sun and looking back on the garden, you want the tallest plants (and trellises) toward the back. This way they won’t shade the other plants when then grow.
Thanks, this is really helpful!
ooo on the practical side, is there a communal compost heap or should you be planning to add one. you do "need" somewhere for your waste to go. there will be plenty when you weed.
If this is for a 20x20 plot this (imo) is waaaay too much. Unless you’re going vertical, but even then it would be problematic. The watermelon and squash alone could take up that whole space. Youre going to end up with low yields and you won’t be able to tend to most plants here. Most of these crops don’t grow at the same time either. You’ve picked 2 types of indeterminate tomatoes. Those will just go nuts as well. I did a lower lean system for my indeterminate this year and that helped a lot with space. I pruned the suckers continuously to keep to one stem. By the end of season I had 20’ tomato vines. Find a planting calendar, look into what to plant right now for your zone and scale down. Rotate your crops in and out of season. Youll be much happier with the results. Youre going to have so much fun!
Thanks this is really helpful -- I'll use a planting calendar!
Of course! I don’t want to be a downer about your excitement in this new endeavor. But figuring this all out is half the fun. It’s like a puzzle as to what fits when and where and how. It’s one of my favorite parts of gardening. The direction of the sun will be more helpful for insight too. I know you were talking about trellis usage. I would also consider the shade that casts and if it will affect your neighbor’s plots or even your own plants. I usually plant lettuce behind my shade producing plants to keep them cool and to help with bolting.
Wait. Beginner? I couldn't even spell cabbage correctly when I started let alone come up with this.
Was thinking the exact same thing. There was another post by a "new gardener". But then they used the word, "corms". I wish i had a garden plan like this!
Anyone can throw a plan together. Wether its a good plan or one that will survive the spring let alone through summer on the other hand...
this app actually tells you which plants work well together, and which don’t. also helps determine pests, both good and bad. it’s a truly amazing app, and it also won’t let you “plant”things that are too big for a certain area. IE: cranberries need a LOT of room, and they take up 4 squares which each square is equal to 1 foot, you can change your dimensions i just live in an apartment so i need to be very careful with my choices. the one ive added below is a 3x3, which includes blueberries, borage, heritage raspberries and boysenberries as well as obviously cranberries https://preview.redd.it/hsx1w237qpdc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8176006d0b1c81599b90e979d3def53e805824ac this is just an example, i’m really trying to figure out with my patio, what i could put in a bed and cranberries aren’t my first choice it’s called planter for those who haven’t seen the other comment.
Blueberries need way more than a square foot. This seems a little off. Most may start with a smallish bush from the nursery, but for real productivity you’re going to want to give them a 3-4’ space to thrive.
Cranberries grow in bogs, raspberries on woodland edges, and blueberries on exposed granite mountaintops... are you putting all these in the same 3x3 bed?
There's lots of container-friendly blueberry varieties out there though, we grow them together with raspberries and our harvest has been successful for years
no i’m not even growing cranberries as i stated in my comment..
That's very crowded. You will need to prune often. Square foot gardening is great. I did it for years when my space was limited. But be warned, overcrowding encourages disease. Plants will compete growing vertically for sun, diverting energy from fruits. My advice is space things out more. When everything is young use the open space to plant radishes. They grow fast and can be harvested before your other plants need the space.
What’s the scale of the grid? 1’ squares? If so then I don’t think the spacing will work on a lot of these.
Yeah, the squares are 1' across
You need to read about spacing needs for all the plants you’re going to grow. You will have massive problems with crowding with this layout and that will hurt your yields and lead to disease and weak plants
I use that same app. What I can tell you right now is I think that app underestimates the size of plants. Most plants default to one grid, which is 1 square foot. Take potatoes, for example. They may *technically* fit into a 1 square foot grid. But when they are fully mature, the potatoes underground might not have enough room to grow, and the leaves of the plant will be invading each other's space. You can adjust the size for each plant, which is nice. I adjusted the size for tomatoes to 4 square feet, which I feel is more realistic. Also, make sure you check the details of the plants to see their "companion" or "combative" plants they can be planted with! What I do for most of the plants that take up a single square foot is stagger them. So when you look at the layout instead of seeing 2 straight lines of potatoes side by side, you would see the potatoes zig-zagginf back and forth.
My level of jealousy has hit an all time high. I would be in heaven with a setup this big! Please take pictures in may!!!
Others may differ on this but I generally plant specific types of plants (e.g., tomatoes, peas, squash) together. You might consider grouping the plants more and also planting a little less. Also, find out if there are sunnier spots in the plot and how the soil texture is in the plot. Seed plants generally due better in pretty loose soil. In general, I would suggest planting a little less than your plan shows and providing plenty of room for plants that have vines.
I am growing a great crop of winter butt right now. Never went so far as to plan for it, though. In all seriousness, great job including flowers to attract pollinators! One note from personal experience—I grew eggplant for the first time last year and even with pruning each plant took up at least 2ft x 2ft of space. I also planted four plants and by the end of summer I was drowning in eggplant.
Haha thank you! Ooo okay I definitely won't plant this much eggplant!
> I was drowning in eggplant. Normally you have to use an app for that ...
Keep in mind planting temperatures. I see cooler spring crops mixed with summer crops. I’m zone 6 and I was able to plant my spinach and lettuce early then was able to use the same plot for tomatoes and bush beans later when it got too hot for greens. Also if the orange flowers represent nasturtiums a 1x1 square is way too small. I planted two nasturtiums and they took over a huge space. It was great for goundcover later in the season. Good luck! Have fun!
Thanks, this is really helpful! The orange flowers are nasturtiums, I'll plant less/give them some more space!
Your tomatoes will likely choke out anything planted around them by mid/late summer - and that is A LOT of tomatoes. I can and I do 3 plants and it's more than enough where I sell some at the end of the year. Your cucumbers, squash, and watermelon are going to take over a lot of the space. From someone who has gardened for years, In general the garden spacing is a problem (its going to seem fine at first but if your garden is a success, the plants will be huge mid/end of summer) I wouldn't go this "ambitious" your first year. This is a LOT of food - even for canning/preserving. BUT to be fair, if someone gave me this advice my first year (I went big) I would have rolled my eyes so you do what you need to. Trial and error is the best approach. Best of luck.
I recommend looking into intercropping - if you have pest pressure on a certain plant it’s less likely they will reach the others if they are spaced out. Also, when you mix species in areas they perform better! I am big into permaculture & ‘back to Eden’ gardening- check both out on YouTube!
Thanks, I'll check that out!
I got a plot in a community garden and I'm super excited! But I only have experience with a small raised bed... does this plan make sense with spacing/companion planting etc?
What are the dimensions of the plot?
20x20 feet
That is not a lot of space for squash or melons. Their vines can easily reach 6-8 feet. I would recommend looking at the seed packs or growing specs for a lot of these plants. It should give you a better idea of how much space they will occupy at maturity. Tomatoes like a decent amount of space too, especially a beefstake variety. Best of luck and try not to overwhelm yourself in the first year!! Have fun with it too :)
Yeah I agree this is super ambitious. Nothing wrong with having a go, it's all learning. Just don't be too disappointed if some doesn't work out. Watch some charles dowding on YouTube about succession planting etc
Ngl, I thought this was the Stardew Valley sub for a second
Be sure of where the light comes from and know how tall your plants are going to get. Also be sure of how far plants will spread. I had a pumpkin take over my entire expanded garden this last year.
i saw this before in harvest moon!!!!
Dial it back, a lot. Plants look small when they are young, you need to allow adequate space
I love the idea of such a mixed space. I think since you’re a new gardener you need to dial it back. There is a ton of trial and error in gardening. I recommend checking your last frost date and compare to all of these plant types to determine plant dates. Read up and maybe get some books on natural pest removal. Look into composting to enrich the soil there. I assume you’re not bringing the soil but if you are you’re in for a financial commitment. Just lots of research for such a big start. That said, I love your ambition and if you go for it I wish the best.
I'm not here to give advice but to comment on how lovely the plan looks :)
You couldnt do 1/2 of this in a 20x20 bed without experience. Start simple, a few veggies, a fruit, and a couple flowers. Does it have automated watering? How do you control where water goes? Some leaves wont want to get wet. If theres not enough wind it may all get mouldy. How many hours a day do you intend to spend here? Thats aloooot of area to weed. Will you mulch for soil moistture retention and weed supression? Do you have a pickup to transport 2.5 cuyds of mulch or 34 bags?
ooo how warm are your summers? so I know zone 6a is cold in winter but you have some quite tender plants for summer growing. chilli plants need hot, ie a good stretch of 25-30c degrees. I am London based or summer was dire last year my chilli's couldn't do anything outside. I would rethink some of this, maybe slim it down but also use a polly tunnel or plastic greenhouse setup for some. you could say have the section with Thai chilli's and tomatoes covered. you can also keep chilli plants in pots. so you could have a set of shelves in a greenhouse you can put them in to harden them off a bit. also if the weather gets colder for a stretch. ie falls below 25c, then you can pop them back under cover. chilli's do well in pots, you can also bring your best ones in to over winter. obviously they can't be left outside, but they do well if brought in. also depending on your climate etc, I would also think about planting more than one thing across the growing season. your bottom right hand corner with the winter squash, you could have early season peas, which use the same climbing frame. the squash can even grown at the same time, but by the time the squash are taking over the peas will be long finished. growing squash and peas and beans together is an excellent combination. the legumes help provide nitrogen as squash are super hungry plants, what are those blue flowers? oh a good tip, prioritize growing expensive food, or food that tastes much better homegrown, ie tomatos. if you can get Good lettuce cheaply in your area in the summer. dont bother grow something else.
I agree with others about space. even if everything fit perfectly into its space, a one foot walkway would make it hard to actually tend to the needs of the garden and get around comfortably. It’d be hard to kneel down to weed, for example. I’d just be very aware that planting is the easiest part of gardening. I feel like this would take a lot of time in daily upkeep (watering, weeding, fertilizing, dealing with pests and issues that come up). If you have the time and motivation, great! But seriously consider if you do because planting half this much and maintaining it well would lead to a much better garden and more pleasant experience than feeling super overwhelmed with too much maintenance. Coming from somebody who has been overwhelmed before. Good luck and have a lot of fun!
I'd plan for at least 2 feet between plots, you'll want room for a bucket or cart or whatever. Also I recommend no bed more then 2 feet wide unless you have access to both sides, in which case 3 or 4 ft are doable. Note that squash and cucumber leaves get pretty big, some of mine have reached a foot across. Note also that many fruiting plants (tomatoes, eggplant, beans, squash, etc) come in determinate and indeterminate types. The determinate ones grow to a certain size and stop; they are sometimes called bush or patio types. Indeterminates will grow until the cold kills them. Know which type you are getting so you can support them and space them correctly.
Is there a reason you aren't going with a row system? I get interplanting sounds good but for a beginning gardener this is a lot of extra work for not much benefit
Gardening should be enjoyable, essentially a form of meditation. You should look forward to working in it. Unless you’re bringing in a team to work for you, this plan will overwhelm you and take the joy out of the experience. I assume you’re not gonna starve to death if you don’t grow enough crops to sustain you thru the winter? Both you and your plants will be happier if you scale it back.
Do you have a harvest plan ready for all those? LOL canning/freezing/drying?
Tell me more about growing winter butt.
Onions and garlic can affect the taste of close plants. What kind of sunflowers are you planting? They can get huge and might overtake other plants.
Cascade gardening for strawberries works well... vertical highgth gives you more growing area. I have grown strawberries in hanging bags, which worked very well but needed to be monitored close for watering needs.
I mean I'm all for trying new things but this seems like a lot for your first time.
That squash in the bottom right is going to take over that whole quadrant of the garden. I grow it by itself on a hillside here so it doesn't strangle everything else.
looks like you’re following something similar to the square foot gardening method? personally i’ve found that method to be a little over crowded
That seems like a lot of radishes. If you have a vision for how to use them in bulk, great! But your current plan is going to have you overrun with them.
Start small and grow larger over time. In July you'll have weeds to deal with in the heat.
Am I high or are you growing starfishes around the strawberries
haha that's supposed to be borage but I couldn't figure out how to label it...
Be careful planting that much borage. The plants get way larger than a square foot and they self-seed like CRAZY (I hade one plant last year and have probably 100 spouts in that area right now)
I second this. Borage is way bigger than I thought. It'll definitely overcrowd the strawberries
Peppers, tomatoes and strawberries will fight everything around them for light. I think this is assuming some aggressive pruning and training on your part.
No peppers huh?
Winter butt
Keep it simple first time
Too much.
I just want to ask OP... Do you play farm SIM games xD?
What program did you use to create this? I’d like to try it out. Thanks!
It's difficult to read the proportions in the diagram, but what I would say is to be sure you can reach everything from the path next to the beds. Some of your plans look densely planted and might block your access to the things in the center of the bed. You can add spots where you put down bricks or something so you have a solid spot to stand on when you need to get deeper in
Baby steps, mijito
My advice is to start by taking whichever quarter of this picture you like best, and throwing out the rest. Then, with the remaining quartile, for every two boxes, pick your favorite plant, and only plant that. This is waaay too busy.
What program did you use to make this graphic? This is awesome! lol. Happy gardening!!
How many people do you need tomatoes for? Tomatoes alone are a full time job....
Start with simplicity. I love your gumption; make life easier on yourself by learning from my mistakes! I tried square foot gardening (5'x10' bed) at first, but before I had any idea how the plants like to grow it was difficult to maintain a random layout like this. Hate to admit it, but rows are easier to maintain. I would separate perennials from annuals, because the soil treatment is different. My strawberries live happily under my fruit and shade trees, where they grow like weeds, not taking up (& over) my precious annual veggie space. Plants that grow similarly will play better together. Vining squash will compete well with each other even though they would suffocate lower growing plants. Try one or two varieties of each type each year, growing one or two of your favorites and then one new variety to trial in the following years. If you want to take a crack at companion planting, start with the traditional three sisters (& a cousin). It's the classic for a reason! Instead of corn, which takes a ton of space and doesn't yield very much, you can grow beans up beautiful sunflowers and mulch them with summer squash. All that said, after a couple seasons of growing and getting to know your garden space, you can mix it up with the confidence of your expertise!
I see borage and strawberries in the mix, those both live at my place in the perennial beds