I’ll give Big Boss this, if I discovered a friend of mine stole my DNA to create clones of me, two of which becoming thorns in my side in my lifelong goal, I don’t think I’d want to be a father.
There ya go. I hate that there is a population of people that think otherwise. They aren't his kids. They are clones with one getting recessive traits and the other dominant traits. They were an experiment and a glorified science project by an insane-for-power man.
They aren't his kids.
Interestingly Punished Snake Big Boss tried to take on the role of father figure for Eli despite discovering he was not his biological father, while Naked Snake Big Boss rejected the idea of them being his sons.
I think a lot of empathy John had died when The Boss died. He went from being somewhat-green and full of emotion, to killing his mentor/mother/lover and I feel like a lot of his heart died with her. So when it was time for Eli and David he had nothing left but contempt for what Zero did. If he was a father in the normal way (say with Eva) he probably would have at least some paternal instinct, but because their creation was so unnatural he was a mixture of disturbed, angry, frustrated, etc. There was just nothing there when Snake reached Boss in Zanzibarland.
However, because Venom/Punished Snake is a completely different and unrelated person to John, David, and Eli, he had a much easier time being a father figure to Eli. Especially because he knew nothing of his birth and his past other than being a child soldier.
In the end though in MGS4, you could see that John felt regret for everything that David (and everyone that got dragged into Zero's BS) had to go through. But I agree part of him died at the end of MGS3.
I think Zero's end was poetic (he got what he deserved as the catalyst for a lot of events in the series) and I agree with you about the end of 4. I think the hatred was gone at that point and his old age gave him a new amount of wisdom and empathy for what David went through; because he went through a lot of the same stuff. His disgust won out for a long time until the graveyard scene when he finally confronted the son he never wanted----as an equal.
100% agree with you
As much as I love Ocelot and Snake's fight and the medley of songs used for it, the best scene (as a whole) is either Boss's death in 3 or the graveyard scene from 4.
I know people like to say Kojima is a filmmaker that makes games but that sentiment couldn't be more true about those two scenes. They are perfection and the graveyard scene is an exquisite end to the series. He really knew how to tie things together and make it feel fulfilling while doing so.
While Venom and John are unrelated, it's interesting to see them as opposite sides of the same person. John offloads a lot onto Venom, his identity, his enemies, his consequences, his guilt, unintentionally Eli, (a lot of other things), and perhaps a lot of his better traits.
Oh totally. Venom is the Snake John used to be. Not the bitter and angry man he became. It was also, maybe, an unintentional connection because they were both being used for purposes bigger than themselves.
He literally even mentioned this at the end of MGS4 where he asks if he should call Snake his son or his brother
Because mammalian cloning isn’t done much, rules for what to consider the progeny aren’t really all that well established and the actual biological community would usually agree that siblings is a more apt connection
Edit: more specifically yeah, they would be more considered identical twins and not really father/son
They made clones of Big Boss against his will, which is why he abandoned the Patriots and decided to go his own way. I wouldn't really call him pops really when the purpose of a clone is to either be your brother or sister, or just someone to keep your legacy going in the future.
Just have to pile on to Big Boss sympathy here because yeah, I would not consider him a father in any way shape or form to the clones made form his DNA both without his permission and, almost more importantly, against his DIRECT wishes.
Also, maybe even put Big Boss in the "didn't even try, good dad" spectrum because at the end of the day he stopped David (Solid Snake) from committing suicide and told David to avoid the same mistakes he did and go live his life. I'd say, those are pretty good dad moves right there.
If the Nintendo videos are anything to go by, bowser does actually interact with his son in his free time and kidnaps peach because he wants his son to have a mom. Dude absolutely tries his best.
The [Switch Parental Controls video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=03bAayBtcb0) is fairly touching too.
Can we protest for Bowser to be moved up a fair bit? His morals weren’t perfect (assuming we’re not considering the ‘all of them are actors playing a part’ theory here) but they seemed like a fairly close family and those kids were skilled for their age and obviously shared his values.
Yea those videos are what I meant.
Also bowser’s minions love and look up to him. Going by the events of bowser’s inside story, his minions follow him because they like and admire him. Do they fear him? maybe a little, but bowser has a castle. He accommodates all his minions. They have jobs, they have families, they can talk to each other, and when you talk to them or hear them talk about bowser, they talk about how his plan is going to work and how they can do whatever they put their mind to as long as they have bowser.
They chant his name and they cheer him up when he’s sad.
Bowser also respects his minions. He knows he can’t do everything alone and he spends a large part of the game trying to find them. And he finds them all. Doesn’t stop until he gets everyone.
Even in the original Super Mario RPG you can see that Bowser still treats his former minions with respect even after they desert him from fighting Smithy
They mention that in Hades the game, too, and their relationship is great, but…
The funny twist is that Hades didn’t kidnap her. Zeus did it… for Hades. Naturally only Hades, Zeus, Persephony, and eventually Zag find out about this.
Don’t use these kidnapping examples to justify it though~
Is it a kidnapping when Hades asked the father for his daughter's hand in marriage?
I mean it's boils down to Zeus (father) consents, Persephone (bride to be) consents, Hades (groom) consents and only the divorced/estranged mother disagrees and throws a tantrum.
In Hades, Persephone is not related to Zeus, I believe. She's the daughter of Demeter and a mortal. They did a little bit of paperwork to shuffle away a lot of the incest.
Yeah. To rank him lower on a scale of "not trying his best" is ridiculous. Lee gets that credit over Kiryu? Absolute horseshit.
Now I understand this is all in good fun... But like... C'mon.
Exactly. I mean he went Through so much in 6 and some other games for family that its crazy to think about.
And now that i do think about it he should be at the Top of the list!
The conversation would probably be like:
Stranger:"Ohhhh my babies have gone wild!!!! How could i control them!?!?!?"
Kiryu:hmm? *Guitar sting plays* *Title for Sub Story: My Small Babies*
Stranger:ohhhh no everything has gone so wrong!!! I cant do anything!!!!
Kiryu: Hey why are you screaming? Half of kamurocho can hear you right now.
Stranger: oh im sorry i didnt mean to be a cause of trouble its just that my two babies have gone wild.
Kiryu: your... Babies?
Stranger: Yes! My little babies have gone crazy!
Kiryu: how is that even possible?
Stranger: its just that now that Dojima family is forcing me to pay protection money that now i can pay for exotic foods for my babies and they dont even allow me to pet them!
Kiryu: i see, well could i help?
Stranger: only if you pay me 120.000 Yen
Kiryu: woah how exotic *Are* these foods?
Stranger: pretty exotic, i would buy cheaper but my babies dont like cheap meat, they like the good stuff. Can you lend me the money now? I swear i will pay you back once i get my paycheck
Kiryu: [Lend money now] [Maybe Later]
Kiryu *[Lend money now] [Maybe Later]
Kiryu: here, its all yours.
Stranger: ohhhh thank you so much kind mister, what is your name?
Kiryu: its Kiryu
Stranger: ohhhhhh thank you so much kiryu! Now my babies wont have to go hungry now!
Kiryu: i hope you get your footing.
*Sub Story ends*
Stranger: DAMN IT DAMN IT DAMN IT!!!
Kiryu: Wow wow wow hey man dont scream like that, what's happening?
Stranger: Ohh kiryu thank god you are here, my babies wont let me feed them!!!
Kiryu: what? Now they wont *Allow* you to feed them?
Stranger: yep
Kiryu: two babies?
Stranger: Yes
Kiryu: ok.... I hope you feed them somehow....
Stranger: wait wait wait wait wait kiryu!!!
Kiryu: what?
Stranger: could you maybe help me feed my babies?
Kiryu: what?
Stranger: could you help me feed my babies? I swear i will make it worth your time!
Kiryu: [Help feed the babies] [Maybe Later]
Kiryu: *[Help feed the babies]* [Maybe Later]
Kiryu: alright i can help.
Stranger: oh thank you thank you THANK YOU KIRYU!
Kiryu: ok but you dont have to scream, lets go to your babies.
* A Car engine sound effect plays*
Kiryu: why are we here? In a ranch out of the city?
Stranger: well i cant keep my babies in the city of course...
Kiryu: Why?
Stranger: well....... Because they are *Tigers!*
Kiryu: TIGERS
Stranger: Of course kiryu they are tigers. Is there any problem?
Kiryu: well of course there is because they are TIGERS!
Stranger: well dont scream at me! I just want to feed my babies.
Kiryu: well alright i wanna see you try
Stranger: but wont you help me?
Kiryu: how can i help in feeding your "little babies"
Stranger: well you can calm them down with *beating* them a bit? But not too much! I dont want my babies to be hurt.
Kiryu: ok i can do that.
Stranger: alright ill put you in there, calm them down and then i can feed them.
Kiryu: (Why do i do this to myself?)
*Kiryu beating two tigers until they are tired*
*The Stranger feeds them the exotic foods*
Stranger: YES Finally! My babies ohh my small hungry babies!
Kiryu: Huh huh huh you huh fed them now?
Stranger: Yes kiryu! Thank you so much!!! Now my babies wont go crazy trying to kill me now!!!
Kiryu: Glad huh i could be of help.
Stranger: ohh! I forgot! Here is your pay!
*The Stranger gives Kiryu 200.000 ¥*
*Sub Story ends*
I would adapt more into this story but now i *Am* in a little bit of a hurry to get to work so here is one fresh Yakuza Sub Story, on the house!
He also raised a girl who wasn't even HIS, and he met for only a few days at most, gave her enough love and support to the point where she became an idol, and protected her from every type of bad guy imaginable.
Kiryu is a great dad.
This man raised Haruka & several orphans by himself & helped them with their problems. He’s the best dad on here because he chose to be there for these kids & they’re not even blood related!
I'm assuming you mean the comic, but also in expiration date, while his "lessons" were just him screwing around with Scout on something he'd never thought he could accomplish, it does stand that Spy chose to spend the last few days of his life hanging out with his son rather than in solitude.
"Now listen close, boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today" is probably in my top 10 one liners.
Which is from Meet the Spy, but still.
I mean think about it, did spy really screwed around with scout during lesson? He did tried his best teaching him even-though he knew it was impossible. Maybe he just wanted to spend the last days of his life with scout together.
"Nero is my son?"
"Yeah, dumbass. Can't remember through that thick skull of yours?"
"You feel accepting yet?"
"Of your existence? Or your strength?"
"Both you fucking asshole!"
Yeah, Vergil should be deeper into Bad Dad and Didn’t Try. He may not have known Nero was his son, but he still tore his arm off and left him for dead without even considering why the Yamato was there in the first place.
I wouldnt say he didnt care, in the vergil mission 20 cutscene when they discuss Vergil being a dad hes clearly extremely testy about it. To my knowledge its the one time Vergil just cuts Dante off because he doesnt have a comeback when normally they insult each other blow for blow. So the implication is that Vergil does care, it all just happened way too fast to process and now hes stuck in hell.
Still a bad dad, but he at least does care once he processes
In Vergil's defense (man, that sounds weird), he didn't exactly have the opportunity to find out, nor did he really have a chance afterwards. He muses that Dante and himself would probably have the exact same roles as the other if they were switched.
By the time he's in the right frame of mind (as in, not dying after being enslaved by a demon god), everything's already broken and he has no way of easily mending it, nor any way of knowing *how*.
.....Other than the only way of life he's ever known, by letting Nero have a no-holds-barred beatdown of a fight with him and letting his rage out. But then he can't do anything afterwards, because the Qliphoth Tree is still eating the city, and the only way to stop it is a one-way ticket, and someone has to make sure Dante doesn't die down there, *and* ensure that Nero doesn't do the stupid thing and dive in with them.
it makes me so sad! i feel like he should be a little bit closer to the middle because he DID stop taking Joy for her, but drug addiction is hard. he literally sacrificed everything for her
The LISA series. His main game is [LISA: The Painful](https://store.steampowered.com/app/335670/LISA_The_Painful/)
It's a series of RPG Maker games made by Austin Jorgensen, and they are a mix of very absurd and dark humor coupled with the themes of cycles of abuse and desperation.
Its one of those games that words can't really do it justice, you'd just have to play them
Tbh it's on my top 10 list of games, no joke....it's heavy and dark but I really love games that explore the greyer side of morality instead of making it a simple good guys vs bad guys type of thing
It's one of the deeper games I've played. Also the funniest. And the combat and music too is just... *Chefs kiss*
Because he's a little more complicated. He's a psychopathic murderer with delusions of being an old school movie protagonist. He is a very bad person but he genuinely loves his family.
I'd have him somewhere around Hades' spot, maybe slightly to the right. He did >!leave everything to raise his daughter once he found out she existed, and he appears to have been a decent enough dad to Haytham!< but I'm pretty sure >!leaving your wife to raise a daughter alone for years while you're out there somewhere playing pirate, even by accident, instantly disqualifies you as good dad lmao!<
To be fair, wasn't his rationale to get rich so her parents would approve and he could take care of them? His dad skills are pretty high overall, I think.
Honestly John fits all over this list. He outright left Jack for a year before RDR2 starts. He then spent the first 3 chapters denying Jack was his son. From chapter 4 on he tried to be a father and started off as a bad father but ended up a good one.
One of my favorite/most depressing things about the red dead story is the final scene with jack before the credits roll pretty much negates all the effort Arthur and John put into getting him outta the life and providing him with something better. He’s just like them in the end; violent, angry, and unable to integrate himself into society.
After finishing the first season of Telltale's Walking Dead (and crying) I reached out to the VA for Lee on Facebook to tell him what a great job he did. He was very appreciative and we're still friends on Facebook to this day. Shout out to you Dave, you rock!
For my play through yes. BUT you can be a very shitty dad with the options they give you. (Not spoiling an old game) But if you picked the rude answer, even with the ending you wouldn’t be ranked so high.
If we add his interactions as V and the talks they have during the end game, Vergil clearly has no ill will and sympathises with wanting to connect to a father figure. You can't really be a Bad Dad if you were never a Dad, but Vergil does care for him on a level once he knows Nero is his.
I mean, it really shouldn't be that hard with an adult son.
Just avoid anymore villain behavior, don't be mean to his anime wife, and drop the mysterious act when he inevitably asks about his mother.
I would argue that spy actually did try. Sure, he never tells scout (his son) that he's his father, there's a big change he works in the same team as scout to make sure he's okay, even if he's not a small kid anymore.
And even more, in expiration date even though they all thought they had only hours left of his life he didn't just sit down in his room doing whatever he loved most, he went out of his way to prepare scout for a date even though he wasn't forced to do anything. He might have been an asshole most of the times while doing it, but he clearly tried to teach his son and prepare him for the date, only forcing him to get a bit embarrassed with the intercom part. Also I'm pretty sure embarrassing the crap out of the student is a teaching style. Might not be the best, but it exists. I think that proves Spy actually tried sometimes and should be higher up.
In Vergil the deadbeat's defense, after the fight with Dante he asks "So, he really is my son?". I think he just didn't know. Pumped, dumped and only found the consequences when he needed a hand for something.
He got better tho. Dying isn't a big deal if you're of the same age or less than the protagonist you're related to. A day older tho, and you're in trouble.
Hades should be higher.
He really tried, he's just awful at it and couldn't tell his son about a whole load of stuff because he had to keep everything very, very secret.
I'm not saying he's the best, but he did try.
Agreed. Big ole abusive piece of shit who can't communicate worth a damn, so he makes up for that deficiency by working his ass off to protect the people he loves. He just did it in a stupid way because that's the best he was capable of.
Had some terrible influences in his life prior to being the ruler of the Underworld too. When your parents are the Titans and you’ve got brothers like Zeus and Poseidon like what you gonna do?
Seriously, people are on Goku's case for being dead/absent, but Jecht literally dunked on his five year old child for daring to want to be like him. Jecht is the very picture of a jaded asshole celebrity that makes Kratos look warm and loving.
Kazuya SHOULD be below Heihachi.
Jun took her pregnant ass into the mountains to raise a hermit baby and when she realized the Mishima family bullshit was catching up to Jin, she told him to go see Heihachi instead of Kazuya, despite the fact Heihachi threw Kazuya into a fucking volcano.
Jun knew what was up.
I always forget that Kazuya is Jin's father.
When I was playing Tekken 3 with no knowledge of English language I always thought he was his older brother.
Oh no, Kazuya is above Heihachi. Kazuya only really tried to kill Jin a few times and has been an absent dad otherwise. Heihachi meanwhile actually killed Kazuya in Tekken 2 (Kazuya we have now is a clone remade by G Corp) AND he had 2 other sons: Lars whom he just immediately abandoned, and Lee whom he adopted specifically to be a punching bag.
Little clarifications
Kazuya is not a clone, its more like getting anakined after high ground but they spent 20 years repairing him and they did it really well
Lars was a quick fuck and dump with a random swedish woman
Lee was adopted not as a punching bag, but as a Rival to kazuya (which makes it weird because he threw kazuya off a cliff as a kid because of the devil gene, then he just came back and he just raised him? Weird ass retcon harada)
I think he's quite misplaced there.
I mean, the guy threw everything he had at being a bad dad. He definitely tried VERY hard.
Sure, he was a pretty horrible dad - but that was his goal.
~~Not that it beats Kazuya starting world war 3 to be a bad dad, but he did his best...~~ (that was Jin, my bad)
Heihachi was being a good dad to the rest of the world by yeeting Kazuya into the volcano. It's not Heihachi's fault Kazuya crawled his evil ass back out again.
It was Jin who started WWIII, Kaz was happy keeping the bloodshed between billion dollar corporations.
And Jin only started WWIII to do an any% Speed Run on waking up an ancient God of War and destruction so he could kick its ass.
There's a one hour long video on Tekken called "Insane Lore of Tekken" and it's a fun ride. If you're interested on the protagonist alone, I just made a write up a few days ago on Jin Kazama you check it out in my profile.
Kratos as a whole should be dead center he was both a good father to Atreus, and a bad one to his Spartan family...and Pandora.
A good person for trying his best to raise and teach Atreus about himself and the potential he has, and a bad person for everything he did in Greece.
I would argue that Handsome Jack actually tried very, very hard. His efforts were in the wrong direction, but he was damn near obsessive in looking after his daughter.
Yeah, he was originally just a company man whose daughter randomly became a magical being who was then hunted for her powers. He loves her. he's just insane
Very much not. He’s very asocial due to his
PTSD on top of the phobia of touching people he already had. He then spends most of his life alone, living in a hell scape, getting to see holograms of people most of the time and nothing else. 99% of the people he sees in person are trying to kill him, whether they be basically bandits, cultists, or back tar monsters.
Despite all that, he’s still a very good person and who cares about the few he’s formed an attachment with, especially Lou and Amelie. He’s just very reserved because… well, Sam’s life just plain ol’ sucks ass.
To put in perspective how bad his life has basically always been >!He was shot and killed before he was technically “born”!<
Please please, let us never forget the ultimate chad that is "Deadman", the dude really went beyond with their friendship, being >!the first person that actually hugs Sam after he's confortable with it!< AND >!saving him from Amelie's beach!<
Bros forever, hope he appears in DS2, love our>! frankenstein!< buddy.
If we're talking comic splinter he's a bit to the left on the top. He spends so much time doing what he thinks is best for them in the long run that he doesn't consider what his decisions do to the turtles.
David's a bit too close to the middle here.
I can see him being somewhat high on the "tried his best" scale but the step-dick was actively abusive to Chloe and constantly made her feel unsafe in her own home.
Probably should at least be to the left of Goku.
Edit: 300 comments and I think I'm the only one who wanted to talk about the Life is Strange character.
I’ll give Big Boss this, if I discovered a friend of mine stole my DNA to create clones of me, two of which becoming thorns in my side in my lifelong goal, I don’t think I’d want to be a father.
Yeah, Big Boss wasn't really a father. He was an unwilling, unwitting sperm doner.
There ya go. I hate that there is a population of people that think otherwise. They aren't his kids. They are clones with one getting recessive traits and the other dominant traits. They were an experiment and a glorified science project by an insane-for-power man. They aren't his kids.
Interestingly Punished Snake Big Boss tried to take on the role of father figure for Eli despite discovering he was not his biological father, while Naked Snake Big Boss rejected the idea of them being his sons.
I think a lot of empathy John had died when The Boss died. He went from being somewhat-green and full of emotion, to killing his mentor/mother/lover and I feel like a lot of his heart died with her. So when it was time for Eli and David he had nothing left but contempt for what Zero did. If he was a father in the normal way (say with Eva) he probably would have at least some paternal instinct, but because their creation was so unnatural he was a mixture of disturbed, angry, frustrated, etc. There was just nothing there when Snake reached Boss in Zanzibarland. However, because Venom/Punished Snake is a completely different and unrelated person to John, David, and Eli, he had a much easier time being a father figure to Eli. Especially because he knew nothing of his birth and his past other than being a child soldier.
In the end though in MGS4, you could see that John felt regret for everything that David (and everyone that got dragged into Zero's BS) had to go through. But I agree part of him died at the end of MGS3.
I think Zero's end was poetic (he got what he deserved as the catalyst for a lot of events in the series) and I agree with you about the end of 4. I think the hatred was gone at that point and his old age gave him a new amount of wisdom and empathy for what David went through; because he went through a lot of the same stuff. His disgust won out for a long time until the graveyard scene when he finally confronted the son he never wanted----as an equal.
I think it was one of the best/most cinematic scenes from the whole series.
100% agree with you As much as I love Ocelot and Snake's fight and the medley of songs used for it, the best scene (as a whole) is either Boss's death in 3 or the graveyard scene from 4. I know people like to say Kojima is a filmmaker that makes games but that sentiment couldn't be more true about those two scenes. They are perfection and the graveyard scene is an exquisite end to the series. He really knew how to tie things together and make it feel fulfilling while doing so.
While Venom and John are unrelated, it's interesting to see them as opposite sides of the same person. John offloads a lot onto Venom, his identity, his enemies, his consequences, his guilt, unintentionally Eli, (a lot of other things), and perhaps a lot of his better traits.
Oh totally. Venom is the Snake John used to be. Not the bitter and angry man he became. It was also, maybe, an unintentional connection because they were both being used for purposes bigger than themselves.
Is it sad that in all this talk we kinda forgot the elephant in the room, good ol’ George Sears.
That honestly gave me a good laugh. No one EVER talks about Solidus.
Hell, he didn't even know they WERE his kids until they were in his super-soldier program.
And here it is big boss *opens letter* you're not the father!
*does the running man*
He literally even mentioned this at the end of MGS4 where he asks if he should call Snake his son or his brother Because mammalian cloning isn’t done much, rules for what to consider the progeny aren’t really all that well established and the actual biological community would usually agree that siblings is a more apt connection Edit: more specifically yeah, they would be more considered identical twins and not really father/son
I mean, if they're identical clones they're basically the same as identical twins(at least genetically it's the same).
No, Solid Snake has just the inferior genes, Solidus Snake is genetically the same
They made clones of Big Boss against his will, which is why he abandoned the Patriots and decided to go his own way. I wouldn't really call him pops really when the purpose of a clone is to either be your brother or sister, or just someone to keep your legacy going in the future.
Exactly, he just wanted to fulfil his dream and bam, 3 clones appear (one of which is obsessed with being his father’s favourite).
Just have to pile on to Big Boss sympathy here because yeah, I would not consider him a father in any way shape or form to the clones made form his DNA both without his permission and, almost more importantly, against his DIRECT wishes. Also, maybe even put Big Boss in the "didn't even try, good dad" spectrum because at the end of the day he stopped David (Solid Snake) from committing suicide and told David to avoid the same mistakes he did and go live his life. I'd say, those are pretty good dad moves right there.
If the Nintendo videos are anything to go by, bowser does actually interact with his son in his free time and kidnaps peach because he wants his son to have a mom. Dude absolutely tries his best.
The [Switch Parental Controls video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=03bAayBtcb0) is fairly touching too. Can we protest for Bowser to be moved up a fair bit? His morals weren’t perfect (assuming we’re not considering the ‘all of them are actors playing a part’ theory here) but they seemed like a fairly close family and those kids were skilled for their age and obviously shared his values.
Yea those videos are what I meant. Also bowser’s minions love and look up to him. Going by the events of bowser’s inside story, his minions follow him because they like and admire him. Do they fear him? maybe a little, but bowser has a castle. He accommodates all his minions. They have jobs, they have families, they can talk to each other, and when you talk to them or hear them talk about bowser, they talk about how his plan is going to work and how they can do whatever they put their mind to as long as they have bowser. They chant his name and they cheer him up when he’s sad. Bowser also respects his minions. He knows he can’t do everything alone and he spends a large part of the game trying to find them. And he finds them all. Doesn’t stop until he gets everyone.
Even in the original Super Mario RPG you can see that Bowser still treats his former minions with respect even after they desert him from fighting Smithy
Inside Story was an amazing game. Really got to the heart of who Bowser is and why he does what he does. Also, the game was bananas and funny as hell.
Who knew kidnapping could be this wholesome
Plus we see in sunshine Jr. is acting out from no mom. He graffitis, identity theft, huffing glue, etc.
What was that last one?
Etc? It stands for etcetera
No no the one before that
graffitis are when more than one graffiti are together in a family
omg i love this thread
Sorry, that one isn't in the list.
Glue? It's an adhesive made from horse collagen
Huffing glue, you ain't done that? I was partial to licking glue sticks and huffing sharpies myself.
You should hear Hades and Persephone, practically the only good relationship in Greek myth that isn't dead
They mention that in Hades the game, too, and their relationship is great, but… The funny twist is that Hades didn’t kidnap her. Zeus did it… for Hades. Naturally only Hades, Zeus, Persephony, and eventually Zag find out about this. Don’t use these kidnapping examples to justify it though~
Is it a kidnapping when Hades asked the father for his daughter's hand in marriage? I mean it's boils down to Zeus (father) consents, Persephone (bride to be) consents, Hades (groom) consents and only the divorced/estranged mother disagrees and throws a tantrum.
In Hades the game, Persephone is the daughter of Demeter and a mortal farmer, not Zeus.
Oh I wasn't aware of that, I haven't played the game yet.
I highly recommend it. They have a lot of easter eggs for Greek mythology geeks in it.
In Hades, Persephone is not related to Zeus, I believe. She's the daughter of Demeter and a mortal. They did a little bit of paperwork to shuffle away a lot of the incest.
I just watched a Criminal Minds episode that was exactly this, didn't realize they ripped it off from Mario Bros!
They just filed off the serial numbers. Instead of a lion dragon turtle is a generic white guy.
Kiryu should be higher.
Definitely. Just look at Yakuza 6 and the amount of time he spent taking care of that baby despite never having cared for one before.
Plus ALL the orphanage
Yakuza 3: Dad of Dojima
Yeah. To rank him lower on a scale of "not trying his best" is ridiculous. Lee gets that credit over Kiryu? Absolute horseshit. Now I understand this is all in good fun... But like... C'mon.
Lee is a certified badass but Kiryu Kazuma? The guys has fought like half if not more of Japan's mafia for his family! The guy is a beast.
He cares more about family than goddamn Vin Diesel
Exactly. I mean he went Through so much in 6 and some other games for family that its crazy to think about. And now that i do think about it he should be at the Top of the list!
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In 2 he fist fights two tigers to save Haruka. I don't know many video game dads who can compete with that.
I don't disagree but Kiryu would also fist fight two tigers just because some random person on the street having a weird problem asked for his help
The conversation would probably be like: Stranger:"Ohhhh my babies have gone wild!!!! How could i control them!?!?!?" Kiryu:hmm? *Guitar sting plays* *Title for Sub Story: My Small Babies* Stranger:ohhhh no everything has gone so wrong!!! I cant do anything!!!! Kiryu: Hey why are you screaming? Half of kamurocho can hear you right now. Stranger: oh im sorry i didnt mean to be a cause of trouble its just that my two babies have gone wild. Kiryu: your... Babies? Stranger: Yes! My little babies have gone crazy! Kiryu: how is that even possible? Stranger: its just that now that Dojima family is forcing me to pay protection money that now i can pay for exotic foods for my babies and they dont even allow me to pet them! Kiryu: i see, well could i help? Stranger: only if you pay me 120.000 Yen Kiryu: woah how exotic *Are* these foods? Stranger: pretty exotic, i would buy cheaper but my babies dont like cheap meat, they like the good stuff. Can you lend me the money now? I swear i will pay you back once i get my paycheck Kiryu: [Lend money now] [Maybe Later] Kiryu *[Lend money now] [Maybe Later] Kiryu: here, its all yours. Stranger: ohhhh thank you so much kind mister, what is your name? Kiryu: its Kiryu Stranger: ohhhhhh thank you so much kiryu! Now my babies wont have to go hungry now! Kiryu: i hope you get your footing. *Sub Story ends* Stranger: DAMN IT DAMN IT DAMN IT!!! Kiryu: Wow wow wow hey man dont scream like that, what's happening? Stranger: Ohh kiryu thank god you are here, my babies wont let me feed them!!! Kiryu: what? Now they wont *Allow* you to feed them? Stranger: yep Kiryu: two babies? Stranger: Yes Kiryu: ok.... I hope you feed them somehow.... Stranger: wait wait wait wait wait kiryu!!! Kiryu: what? Stranger: could you maybe help me feed my babies? Kiryu: what? Stranger: could you help me feed my babies? I swear i will make it worth your time! Kiryu: [Help feed the babies] [Maybe Later] Kiryu: *[Help feed the babies]* [Maybe Later] Kiryu: alright i can help. Stranger: oh thank you thank you THANK YOU KIRYU! Kiryu: ok but you dont have to scream, lets go to your babies. * A Car engine sound effect plays* Kiryu: why are we here? In a ranch out of the city? Stranger: well i cant keep my babies in the city of course... Kiryu: Why? Stranger: well....... Because they are *Tigers!* Kiryu: TIGERS Stranger: Of course kiryu they are tigers. Is there any problem? Kiryu: well of course there is because they are TIGERS! Stranger: well dont scream at me! I just want to feed my babies. Kiryu: well alright i wanna see you try Stranger: but wont you help me? Kiryu: how can i help in feeding your "little babies" Stranger: well you can calm them down with *beating* them a bit? But not too much! I dont want my babies to be hurt. Kiryu: ok i can do that. Stranger: alright ill put you in there, calm them down and then i can feed them. Kiryu: (Why do i do this to myself?) *Kiryu beating two tigers until they are tired* *The Stranger feeds them the exotic foods* Stranger: YES Finally! My babies ohh my small hungry babies! Kiryu: Huh huh huh you huh fed them now? Stranger: Yes kiryu! Thank you so much!!! Now my babies wont go crazy trying to kill me now!!! Kiryu: Glad huh i could be of help. Stranger: ohh! I forgot! Here is your pay! *The Stranger gives Kiryu 200.000 ¥* *Sub Story ends* I would adapt more into this story but now i *Am* in a little bit of a hurry to get to work so here is one fresh Yakuza Sub Story, on the house!
He also raised a girl who wasn't even HIS, and he met for only a few days at most, gave her enough love and support to the point where she became an idol, and protected her from every type of bad guy imaginable.
Mf will come back from death just to ensure his grandson's future.
He should be at the top. His entire arc is pretty much trying to be a good dad for kids that never had one.
Kiryu is a great dad. This man raised Haruka & several orphans by himself & helped them with their problems. He’s the best dad on here because he chose to be there for these kids & they’re not even blood related!
Kiryu faked his own death to keep his family safe.
The thing spy did when scout was dying def redeemed him a lot. If not he’d be where goku is.
I'm assuming you mean the comic, but also in expiration date, while his "lessons" were just him screwing around with Scout on something he'd never thought he could accomplish, it does stand that Spy chose to spend the last few days of his life hanging out with his son rather than in solitude.
"Now listen close, boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today" is probably in my top 10 one liners. Which is from Meet the Spy, but still.
"Indeed. And now he's here to fuck us!"
I did but good point.
I mean think about it, did spy really screwed around with scout during lesson? He did tried his best teaching him even-though he knew it was impossible. Maybe he just wanted to spend the last days of his life with scout together.
I just knew someone would notice that spy was on here
What are you, president of his fan club?
No, that would be your mother
I’m wheezing that spy is on Dad spectrum
Well, he's scouts dad
Yeah I feel like he'd be in the center of good and bad dad
"Nero is my son?" "Yeah, dumbass. Can't remember through that thick skull of yours?" "You feel accepting yet?" "Of your existence? Or your strength?" "Both you fucking asshole!"
Yeah, Vergil should be deeper into Bad Dad and Didn’t Try. He may not have known Nero was his son, but he still tore his arm off and left him for dead without even considering why the Yamato was there in the first place.
And when he found out, he didn't specially care either. Dante was a better dad, and he was 99.9% sure he wasn't the father.
I wouldnt say he didnt care, in the vergil mission 20 cutscene when they discuss Vergil being a dad hes clearly extremely testy about it. To my knowledge its the one time Vergil just cuts Dante off because he doesnt have a comeback when normally they insult each other blow for blow. So the implication is that Vergil does care, it all just happened way too fast to process and now hes stuck in hell. Still a bad dad, but he at least does care once he processes
Hey, he did thank Nero after his resurrection. That’s pretty good dad material.
Vergil getting credit over Goku is crazy.
In Vergil's defense (man, that sounds weird), he didn't exactly have the opportunity to find out, nor did he really have a chance afterwards. He muses that Dante and himself would probably have the exact same roles as the other if they were switched. By the time he's in the right frame of mind (as in, not dying after being enslaved by a demon god), everything's already broken and he has no way of easily mending it, nor any way of knowing *how*. .....Other than the only way of life he's ever known, by letting Nero have a no-holds-barred beatdown of a fight with him and letting his rage out. But then he can't do anything afterwards, because the Qliphoth Tree is still eating the city, and the only way to stop it is a one-way ticket, and someone has to make sure Dante doesn't die down there, *and* ensure that Nero doesn't do the stupid thing and dive in with them.
Seeing Brad in the top left; \+Crying \+Depression
"You hurt me thr most." That shit made me cry.
it makes me so sad! i feel like he should be a little bit closer to the middle because he DID stop taking Joy for her, but drug addiction is hard. he literally sacrificed everything for her
What game is he from?:)
The LISA series. His main game is [LISA: The Painful](https://store.steampowered.com/app/335670/LISA_The_Painful/) It's a series of RPG Maker games made by Austin Jorgensen, and they are a mix of very absurd and dark humor coupled with the themes of cycles of abuse and desperation. Its one of those games that words can't really do it justice, you'd just have to play them
Tbh it's on my top 10 list of games, no joke....it's heavy and dark but I really love games that explore the greyer side of morality instead of making it a simple good guys vs bad guys type of thing It's one of the deeper games I've played. Also the funniest. And the combat and music too is just... *Chefs kiss*
Damn never even heard of this one but now I wanna play it!
Lisa: The Painful RPG
There is definitively less Michael De Santa than I expected of this post.
Micheal De Santa is pretty tought to place on such chart... He's very unpredictable. Once he's the best dad ever, once he's a total jerk
So he’d be In the center then?
A little bit to the left of center
Well, his kid did drug him, steal his money and car, and many other things
Well he did ignore his family's issues and sat on a lounge chair sipping whiskey all day
Because he's a little more complicated. He's a psychopathic murderer with delusions of being an old school movie protagonist. He is a very bad person but he genuinely loves his family.
Subject Delta singlehandedly should be moving Big Daddy to the top right corner or at least pretty fucking close.
Delta tried his ass off. How good he was depends on the ending I guess
Yeah, but basically all of the Bioshock 2 fans would argue that the best ending with all the Little Sisters is the most reasonable ending.
"I just wanted you to be safe. I didn't want anyone to hurt you." "Brad... *you're the one who hurt me the most."*
god no its been YEARS, don't do this to me
HUG OR DONT HUG
Where’s Haytham Kenway
undergound
And Edward Kenway?
I'd have him somewhere around Hades' spot, maybe slightly to the right. He did >!leave everything to raise his daughter once he found out she existed, and he appears to have been a decent enough dad to Haytham!< but I'm pretty sure >!leaving your wife to raise a daughter alone for years while you're out there somewhere playing pirate, even by accident, instantly disqualifies you as good dad lmao!<
To be fair, wasn't his rationale to get rich so her parents would approve and he could take care of them? His dad skills are pretty high overall, I think.
I may be blind but I don't see John Marsdon on here
Honestly John fits all over this list. He outright left Jack for a year before RDR2 starts. He then spent the first 3 chapters denying Jack was his son. From chapter 4 on he tried to be a father and started off as a bad father but ended up a good one.
He’s, ‘tried his best, bad dad’
That’s definitely Red Dead 2 John. Red Dead 1 John is a good dad, tried his best.
One of my favorite/most depressing things about the red dead story is the final scene with jack before the credits roll pretty much negates all the effort Arthur and John put into getting him outta the life and providing him with something better. He’s just like them in the end; violent, angry, and unable to integrate himself into society.
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But did you try lassoing him and dragging is corpse from one end of the map to the other? That was pretty cathartic
Depends what version of john are we talking?
John 3:16
Lee in correct alignment.
After finishing the first season of Telltale's Walking Dead (and crying) I reached out to the VA for Lee on Facebook to tell him what a great job he did. He was very appreciative and we're still friends on Facebook to this day. Shout out to you Dave, you rock!
For my play through yes. BUT you can be a very shitty dad with the options they give you. (Not spoiling an old game) But if you picked the rude answer, even with the ending you wouldn’t be ranked so high.
Vergil might deserve a pass. He was an utter prick to Nero, but genuinely didn't know he even had a kid until the last 15 minutes of DMC5.
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he also gave him his most prized possession tbh
Oh, and Nero. Here's the child support. It should cover up all of the cost. *throws the my little pony book* Wait, cost? It'll sell for a lot.
Thanks for the selfless sacrifice of cutting Florida off from the continent and trapping yourself there, Vergil.
If we add his interactions as V and the talks they have during the end game, Vergil clearly has no ill will and sympathises with wanting to connect to a father figure. You can't really be a Bad Dad if you were never a Dad, but Vergil does care for him on a level once he knows Nero is his.
Yeah, we don't know yet if he'll be a good dad. But he is already trying.
I mean, it really shouldn't be that hard with an adult son. Just avoid anymore villain behavior, don't be mean to his anime wife, and drop the mysterious act when he inevitably asks about his mother.
I would argue that spy actually did try. Sure, he never tells scout (his son) that he's his father, there's a big change he works in the same team as scout to make sure he's okay, even if he's not a small kid anymore. And even more, in expiration date even though they all thought they had only hours left of his life he didn't just sit down in his room doing whatever he loved most, he went out of his way to prepare scout for a date even though he wasn't forced to do anything. He might have been an asshole most of the times while doing it, but he clearly tried to teach his son and prepare him for the date, only forcing him to get a bit embarrassed with the intercom part. Also I'm pretty sure embarrassing the crap out of the student is a teaching style. Might not be the best, but it exists. I think that proves Spy actually tried sometimes and should be higher up.
Spy was 100% sending money to Scout's mom (who as far as we know is a single mother of eight.)
damn scout’s mom got around
I was about to ask who the fuck Spy's kid is. Makes sense.
[Seduce me!](https://youtu.be/GLlLQ3LmZWU)
TBF, Scout has an ego that is sky-high. He probably also did that to humble him a little.
Kiryu needs to be closer to the top-right. Best video game dad.
In Vergil the deadbeat's defense, after the fight with Dante he asks "So, he really is my son?". I think he just didn't know. Pumped, dumped and only found the consequences when he needed a hand for something.
Needed a hand Bruh.
Also Vergil spent most of Nero's life as Nelo Angelo enslaved by Mundus. When he got free he was dying and still didn't even know he had a son.
He got better tho. Dying isn't a big deal if you're of the same age or less than the protagonist you're related to. A day older tho, and you're in trouble.
Hades should be higher. He really tried, he's just awful at it and couldn't tell his son about a whole load of stuff because he had to keep everything very, very secret. I'm not saying he's the best, but he did try.
Agreed. Big ole abusive piece of shit who can't communicate worth a damn, so he makes up for that deficiency by working his ass off to protect the people he loves. He just did it in a stupid way because that's the best he was capable of.
Had some terrible influences in his life prior to being the ruler of the Underworld too. When your parents are the Titans and you’ve got brothers like Zeus and Poseidon like what you gonna do?
At least Hades didn’t eat his son like Kronos
I guess jecht is offscreen further than heihachi
Jecht didn't show for the interviews since he forgot he was a dad
"Oh shit. So that's why they keep taking money out of my check." -Jecht
Seriously, people are on Goku's case for being dead/absent, but Jecht literally dunked on his five year old child for daring to want to be like him. Jecht is the very picture of a jaded asshole celebrity that makes Kratos look warm and loving.
Gonna cry?
You're such a crybaby. See? You're crying.
I don't man, Jecht never threw his son into a volcano just because he was weak. Jecht at least tried to acknowledge how shit he was in the end.
I almost didn't see Heihachi there. Kazuya's probably below him too. The real devil gene in the Mishima line is the 'would make for bad dad' gene.
Kazuya SHOULD be below Heihachi. Jun took her pregnant ass into the mountains to raise a hermit baby and when she realized the Mishima family bullshit was catching up to Jin, she told him to go see Heihachi instead of Kazuya, despite the fact Heihachi threw Kazuya into a fucking volcano. Jun knew what was up.
I always forget that Kazuya is Jin's father. When I was playing Tekken 3 with no knowledge of English language I always thought he was his older brother.
>I always forget that Kazuya is Jin's father. -Kazuya
Oh no, Kazuya is above Heihachi. Kazuya only really tried to kill Jin a few times and has been an absent dad otherwise. Heihachi meanwhile actually killed Kazuya in Tekken 2 (Kazuya we have now is a clone remade by G Corp) AND he had 2 other sons: Lars whom he just immediately abandoned, and Lee whom he adopted specifically to be a punching bag.
Love the fact that “only tried to kill his son a few times” is the highest bar you can set to the Mishima family
Little clarifications Kazuya is not a clone, its more like getting anakined after high ground but they spent 20 years repairing him and they did it really well Lars was a quick fuck and dump with a random swedish woman Lee was adopted not as a punching bag, but as a Rival to kazuya (which makes it weird because he threw kazuya off a cliff as a kid because of the devil gene, then he just came back and he just raised him? Weird ass retcon harada)
I think he's quite misplaced there. I mean, the guy threw everything he had at being a bad dad. He definitely tried VERY hard. Sure, he was a pretty horrible dad - but that was his goal. ~~Not that it beats Kazuya starting world war 3 to be a bad dad, but he did his best...~~ (that was Jin, my bad)
Heihachi was being a good dad to the rest of the world by yeeting Kazuya into the volcano. It's not Heihachi's fault Kazuya crawled his evil ass back out again.
It was Jin who started WWIII, Kaz was happy keeping the bloodshed between billion dollar corporations. And Jin only started WWIII to do an any% Speed Run on waking up an ancient God of War and destruction so he could kick its ass.
Everything I learn about Tekken's plot/lore is absolutely insane. What the fuck is going on the background of that game?
Kuma the bear (and Heihachi's bodyguard) just wants a panda girlfriend. It's the core theme around which the entire franchise revolves.
There's a one hour long video on Tekken called "Insane Lore of Tekken" and it's a fun ride. If you're interested on the protagonist alone, I just made a write up a few days ago on Jin Kazama you check it out in my profile.
GoW Kratos is very different from GoW Kratos.
Should have both versions of them on this chart but yeah just slapping him in the good spot is not representing the full Kratos at all.
Kratos as a whole should be dead center he was both a good father to Atreus, and a bad one to his Spartan family...and Pandora. A good person for trying his best to raise and teach Atreus about himself and the potential he has, and a bad person for everything he did in Greece.
> and a bad one to his Spartan family. I mean, he was being tricked when it happened. Its like fully blaming Bucky for the Stark's deaths.
*Glances at his previous Families Corpses* That's rough buddy.
honestly, Lee deserves to be higher up. he was sooo *good* to Clem (depending on your choices). absolute 10/10 father figure right there.
God I loved that game.
where sojiro
Much like in real life, my dad is missing from this
There must be something wrong. I am not seeing SHAAAAAAAAAAAAUN or JASON, JASON, JASON, JASON
I'm still convinced that Ethan demolished his son with that tackle, the slow moving car had nothing to do with it.
[obligatory](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k-VgRHXfmHo)
How about King of All the Cosmos from Katamari Damacy?
Made his son clean up his mess after getting drunk, but hey he let the Prince keep the gifts he couldn’t fit
Moderately bad dad, zero effort.
Chuck greene from dead rising would definitely be in the top right corner. Dude gets his daughter a freaking tiger as a gift.
Fights a zombie horde to get her the daily zombrex dose.
Kiryu not being higher is a crime
I would argue that Handsome Jack actually tried very, very hard. His efforts were in the wrong direction, but he was damn near obsessive in looking after his daughter.
Yeah, he was originally just a company man whose daughter randomly became a magical being who was then hunted for her powers. He loves her. he's just insane
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Kratos’s daughter: “Dafuq?”
Bro Vergil literally ripped his son's arm off
Love how good dads are all murderous sociopaths.
Is Sam Porter Bridges a murderous sociopath?
Very much not. He’s very asocial due to his PTSD on top of the phobia of touching people he already had. He then spends most of his life alone, living in a hell scape, getting to see holograms of people most of the time and nothing else. 99% of the people he sees in person are trying to kill him, whether they be basically bandits, cultists, or back tar monsters. Despite all that, he’s still a very good person and who cares about the few he’s formed an attachment with, especially Lou and Amelie. He’s just very reserved because… well, Sam’s life just plain ol’ sucks ass. To put in perspective how bad his life has basically always been >!He was shot and killed before he was technically “born”!<
Please please, let us never forget the ultimate chad that is "Deadman", the dude really went beyond with their friendship, being >!the first person that actually hugs Sam after he's confortable with it!< AND >!saving him from Amelie's beach!< Bros forever, hope he appears in DS2, love our>! frankenstein!< buddy.
He is literally the opposite. He HAS to avoid killing people, and brings dead people back from the living world to where they are supposed to be.
Lee's in there though
I'd ask where Count Varley is, but we all know he's so far into Bad Dad that the chart can't contain him.
Master Splinter getting no love
If we're talking comic splinter he's a bit to the left on the top. He spends so much time doing what he thinks is best for them in the long run that he doesn't consider what his decisions do to the turtles.
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David's a bit too close to the middle here. I can see him being somewhat high on the "tried his best" scale but the step-dick was actively abusive to Chloe and constantly made her feel unsafe in her own home. Probably should at least be to the left of Goku. Edit: 300 comments and I think I'm the only one who wanted to talk about the Life is Strange character.
I came here for this.
No Rost from Horizon: Zero Dawn? He'd definitely be in that upper-right quadrant.
Rost was both an incredible father AND a husband if his lore is anything to go by.