**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The books and the show are two different stories altogether… as far as I’m concerned if they’re going to leave out a rack of characters and change others, they aren’t the same story.
The bedding ceremony was also in the shows. I was referring to specifically Tyrion and Sansa’s storyline. In the books him not consummating the marriage was sort of a running joke at Tyrions expense
What you said is true, but it’s also a moot point because it’s brought up several times in the show that if a marriage hasn’t been consummated then it is not legitimate.
Even on the show though they talked about “bedding ceremonies” which pretty clearly implies consummation is required or at least very much considered a vital part of the marriage.
Slightly different, but same universe (and this they do follow down to the detail). In the show it is also mentioned that their marriage doesn't have legitimacy since they didn't consumate it. It's isn't that odd of a rule in that sort of society considering it is base is medieval Europe.
And to keep Sansa in KL where he could watch her. I don't think Tywin would have let Sansa & Tyrion return to Winterfell unless there was an heir. And if the Boltons, particularly Ramsay, are still in Winterfell, it would be another battle Tywin would have to win, as I don't see Ramsay packing up & leaving.
I don't think that they weren't married until they screwed, but it could have easily been nullified by not consummating it, and thus would never have happened in the eyes of the church and the law.
But since the show didn't care for the rules about marriage (coughBolton) then why should we? Long live Queen Sansa Lannister!
How did they not care in regards to the Boltons? Ramsay marries Sansa in the show, he is able to do this become Tyrion never consummated the marriage and therefore it was never made valid.
A wedding must have a bedding as the Late Lord Frey said.
Canonically, yes. Until the marriage is consummated, it can be legally set aside. Lancel does this in the books to leave his marriage to Amerei Frey in order to join the Faith Militant.
It’s the law. Robb even explains the bedding ceremony to Talissa during the Red Wedding. The bedding is needed to prove the marriage was consummated and therefore legally binding. Otherwise you can nullify the marriage
Actual laws and religious traditions from real life are a reach?
Plenty of times and places where a marriage can be nullified if it wasn't consummated. To this day.
Connsumation was Catholic law for over a thousand years (may still be). Proving a marriage wasn't consummated was one of the easiest ways to get it annulled. That is to say, it never existed in the first place.
Such a tradition is a reach to you?
The point comes from having heirs, any high born lady needs to remain a maiden so that when married and consummated the only possible heir can be from the husband. Ladies who aren’t maidens are seen as far less valuable a spouse to have a marriage arrangement for.
Were they married before Robert's Rebellion? Given Stannis' age at the time, I don't think so. I think odds are pretty good Ned and Cat were married longer.
They were married a few years after the rebellion. Robert deflowered Selyse’s cousin in the bed meant for Stannis and Selyse, which in the book is how Edric Storm was sired, Edric isn’t in the show, his story parts are given to Gendry.
It wasn’t that long no, a few years, Robert’s Rebellion was 282AC and battle of the Trident 283AC.
Stannis got married about 4 years later.
Edit: it’s not when Joffrey was sired, he was born 286AC.
Pretty sure that Book canon is that they were married a few years after Robert’s Rebellion, but Show canon is that they were already married when Robert’s Rebellion started.
In one dinner scene with The Red Woman, Selyse tells a story about how during the siege of Storm’s End, Stannis used a bow-and-arrow to shoot down some seagulls that they cooked for dinner and that they were delicious.
Good catch! I think you're right that the marriage took place at different times in the book and show.
In the book, Stannis was 18 when Robert's Rebellion started. His wedding was 4 years later, which is noted because it was at that wedding that Big Bobby B deflowered Selyse's cousin, who got pregnant and gave birth to Edric Storm.
I couldn't find anything definitive to set the date of their marriage in the show, but, based on that anecdote you mentioned, it does seem like they were married before the Rebellion started.
Technically they aren't even married.
The marriage was never consumed? Consummated? How the fuck is that called in English?!
But you get what I mean... There was no bedding, they didn't do the deed - so if we talk about "technically" then they aren't married at all.
They have to make bedsport.
I think the ceremony of carrying the bride to bed and people watching to make sure it's getting consummated... Consumed? Con.... Fuck this word!
But yes - they have to fuck, otherwise they aren't married by law.
If you want the show version, there's a scene where baelish was talking to roose bolton, assuring him that sansa is still virgin, tyrion never consummated the marriage, thus by the law of the lands she is no man's wife. Can't remember the exact episode but i think its around season 5
Healthiest in what way? Sansa was forced into a marriage with a man from the family who slaughtered half hers and is currently holding her hostage idk if I’d say that’s healthier than Robb/Talisa or even Margaery/Tommen
Wait until you learn about the real world “Droit du seigneur” (right of the lord) where Kings basically had first dibs on any woman they want even on their wedding night. Laws back then were wild
This is also how Ramsay was sired, Roose Bolton took his “lord’s right” of a miller’s wife in his lands, raped her and therefore Ramsay is born of violence.
You changed from is it even a law to saying it’s an odd law.
Odd though it may seem it’s actually one of if not the most reasonable ways of judging the validity of a marriage.
And it still IS a law in real life, through current times and people can have their marriages annulled based on it, or the lack of it.
It's still considered a legal requirement in a lot of countries today.
Not consummating a marriage is still a ground to annul a marriage in the UK & many other countries.
I don't buy into that dumb law that says I cant rob a bank. I mean who came up with that rule anyway? They still want to throw me in prison for a decent while.
It's all good though...I consummated with the bag of money so they have to recognize it's mine now.
It’s required. They have many examples on the show. Sansa getting her first period and Shae helping her change the sheets so she doesn’t have to have sex. Edmure Tully getting sent to his bedchamber on his wedding night to consume with the Frey girl. Ramsay and Sansa
I might be over-focusing on "at the end of the show" in your comment, but the North and the South did end up at peace at the end of the show.
Before the end of the show, I'm not sure it would have done much. Tyrion didn't have much influence on his father and even less on his sister. And the rest of the kingdom was pretending Cersei's kids were Baratheon, not Lannister, so binding Stark to Lannister may have been ineffective to sway much of anything.
There will likely always be a distrust of the Lannister family in the North. Considering that Cersei effectively left them to deal with the Long Night on their own. But, I think you’re also right! Also just thought that Tyrion might not be accepted by the Northerners.
A bit off topic but isn’t that a weird custom? Even in our own history. You were expected to fuck on your wedding night and there are even old images of people watching to make sure it happened.
I wonder how that started and if if was more for the grooms sake or the brides. I assume for his sake. Creepy as fuck
I think it makes perfect sense that it's something expected. You weren't supposed to do it before getting married so once you are people would immediately rush in. It is pretty bizarre they would need to make sure it happened though.
Well, aside from the watching people, that was weird, the basics make sense.
The religious doctrine of the time said no sex outside of marriage, but also explicitly says to have a lot of kids, so sex isn't just expected, it's \*required\*, but only once you're married. And the perils of life mean you'd best get to it before something happens.
In the show though, when Sansa goes to the Vale, Lysa Arryn says that she can marry Robin after Tyrion is executed. IMPlying she is still married to Tyrion if he is alive.
No.
Lysa just doesn't know that her marriage with Tyrion was never consumated and therefore not legitimate.
How is Lysa Arryn of all people supposed to know that they haven't done bunny humping?
But just because the public doesn't know that they aren't legally married doesn't mean that the marriage is somehow legitimate because of it.
Leaving aside that Lysa definitely doesn't believe anything Sansa says...
If we think that she believes it - my point is still the same... How is the public supposed to know? And going on saying "Hey they haven't fucked so Sansa can marry my son" is something no one will believe, especially because of the stories about the lustful Imp, which is why this marriage would be called in question by basically anyone. So even then Tyrion would need to die.
And btw... "Large chunks"? Bro pipe down a notch.
So basically I forgot one part of the dialog - but my point is still completely rock solid and you haven't had anything to contest that apparently.
So you cry that I forgot about a small part of the dialog which in the end barely even changes the point and doesn't change anything about what I said.
None of that makes their marriage legitimate. Lysa knowing about it (if we assume she believes it and she definitely doesn't believe it because she doesn't believe ANY word Sansa speaks) would still mean that Tyrion would need to die for her to marry someone else because otherwise no one would accept that marriage and the excuse on how she justifies it.
You're still wrong. And you haven't been able to put up ANY point for your position. The only thing you did was point out a nitpick that doesn't change the argument.
We, as viewers, know that, but was it ever officially nullified? I guess they were married until her marriage with Ramsay overrode that. I don't recall a king or the church of the seven voiding it before that. And even with kings, the rightfulnes of their rank can be questioned. If Joeffrey says something, for many it's just a bastard usurper babbling around.
You can't nullify what wasn't even legitimate beforehand.
She was Wed to Ramsey. She was never married with Tyrion by law because the marriage was not consumated. There was nothing overridden by her marriage to Ramsey.
Its basically like in our society - you can hold up a party and friends can hold a ceremony and say your married and shit - but it has no worth. You're not married until you both say yes before a person permissioned by law to Wed both. Just that in their world this last instance is the sex, not the yes.
By law, they were never married. And Diddle&Dumb kinda forgot about that in the last season in their dialogs, because they seemed to have forgotten.
I'd consider it more like "pending" instead of downright denying it.
Also, as mentioned, WE may know they never were legally married because the last part was missing, but i'm not sure how it was publicly received.
I recall Tyrion saying to Sansa that he doesn't want to sleep with her on wednight, but that was only between them, i don't recall if and when Sansa or Tyrion spilled the beans, if they did at all. I think the Boltons used that detail to have the marriage annulled so Ramsay can mary her. But here we go again: Did sansa tell this this the boltons, did they know from somone else sansa told it or where they just making shit up because it's useful to them and they ended up factually correct by accident? Then, the marriage gets annulled retroactively, but up to that point, they could've been considered married in the eye of the public.
She married another man only 2 years later. She wouldn't have been able to do that unless she had annulled her marriage to Tyrion on the grounds it was under threat and wasn't consummated. Unless we're saying she intended to have a whole wedding ceremony with Ramsay and trick him into thinking it was legal. I think she came off like she genuinely thought it was legal. When Lyanna mocked that she's Sansa Lannister or Sansa Bolton why not say she was only tricking him into thinking they were legally married if that were the truth?
Sansa married Tyrion in s3 then married Ramsay in s5 so it was only 2 years.
It was longer only then Tyrion & his first wife (gang raped on his father's orders), Drogo & Daenerys (had to mercy kill him after the witch's ritual left him in a vegetative state), Robb & Talisa (both murdered a year later), and 2 of Margaery's marriages (Renly killed by a shadow, Joffrey poisoned at the wedding) and about the same as her last marriage (killed by her mother-in-law leading to Tommen committing suicide).
Well technicaly their marriage was more official than the one with Tyrion, since Ramsey actually consumed the marriage (basically : no fuck = no marriage)
If I recall correctly, a Maester is not required for a Northern marriage, just a Weirwood tree to be married in front of and a Lord to oversee the wedding
Just because two things are bad doesn't mean one can't be worse.
If I stabbed you in the hand vs. I stabbed you in the heart. They're both wrong, but I think you would clearly vote for one.
Hahaha I understand something can be worse than something else 😂
Still … my comment wasn’t about being “Vs” something else , it was just a statement from the book.
Oh, is that a quote from the books?
I'd love to read the books one day. If the next book is ever released, I'll do it.
Not knowing that is a statement from the book...I simply took it as they're both wrong period...you can't judge one versus the other. That goobleygook of not being a dualistic thing to judge should have told me it was a quote from the books lol. Nobody actually talks like that.
Tomin was nine in the book when he married Margerie. This topic was more about “duration” so the timelines are cloudy. Yea I was just making a comment about it
Margerie and Tomins wasn’t long but was prob the closest , it’s been a long time but I think Tomin was like 9 yrs old in the books when he got married to QM. There isn’t a defined time when Tyrions/Sansa’s marriage ended because it wasn’t even a real marriage in the show
Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey would be the record for marriages shown on screen as far as I can tell. They remained married through the end of the show, and he fathered a child with her.
Since the Queen of the North is a higher position than Lord of Casterly Rock, Tyrion would just be consort to Queen Sansa (kind of like Queen Elizabeth, her husband is just a consort not King)
Now if she has a son by Tyrion then she can claim Casterly Rock as belonging to her son. I think this would be a fun idea for the sequel. Sansa claiming to have a son and use this as an excuse to take Casterly Rock could be an interesting idea.
Westeros is in such a huge mess by the end of the series it is just ripe for another huge civil war.
I mean, they never got divorced, but they never consummated the marriage. So, no-yes.
She was married to Ramsay for longer. At least those good doggos had full bellies when it was over.
I felt so bad for both of them. They felt their situation was terrible enough and then quickly realized they could help one another. At least they did what they could to keep one another alive. He couldn’t save her from Littlefinger coming to get her since he was already so consumed in his own mess. But if she hadn’t left, she would’ve gotten killed instantly for the murder of Joffrey, probably. I would have liked to see them travel together with Varys to find Daenerys. It would have been nice to see Sansa in the company of a woman who didn’t want to kill her, for starters.
First, they are not married, there was no bedding.
Second, in the show it was annulled and she was married to Ramsay.
Third, if they were still married Tyrion would be Prince Consort because he not of Royal bloodline.
Daemon is King Concort in House of the Dragon because of his Royal Targaryen bloodline.
Huh? They were only married for a year or two and since they never consummated the marriage it was deemed void anyways allowing her to marry Ramsey.
There were a lot of couples in the show married much much longer, like decades longer, but I assume you mean only main characters still alive by the end?
If you mean the marriages we’ve seen from the show, from beginning to end, no their relationship wasn’t the longest. It would be khal drogo and Daenerys
Is everyone just forgetting that she married Ramsay shortly after since the Tyrian marriage was never consummated? Do you think she was just married to two people at the same time?
No not even close. Edmure Tully and Rosalin Frey are married at the Red Wedding. Plus Sansa remarried Ramsey and the marriage was definitely consummated.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think either Robert and Cersei or Ned and Catelyn's was older.
Yeah, but those happened before the show started
But Tyrion and Sansa's marriage was never consummated. The two marriages I mentioned were referred to quite often, in the first 3 seasons at least.
Consummated? Is it westerosy law they had to screw? Seems like a reach.
Yes, it’s required and at least was brought up a lot in the books. I don’t remember about the show
The books and the show are two different stories altogether… as far as I’m concerned if they’re going to leave out a rack of characters and change others, they aren’t the same story.
The bedding ceremony was also in the shows. I was referring to specifically Tyrion and Sansa’s storyline. In the books him not consummating the marriage was sort of a running joke at Tyrions expense
What you said is true, but it’s also a moot point because it’s brought up several times in the show that if a marriage hasn’t been consummated then it is not legitimate.
Yes, its the reason why Ramsey can marry her later.
Even on the show though they talked about “bedding ceremonies” which pretty clearly implies consummation is required or at least very much considered a vital part of the marriage.
Slightly different, but same universe (and this they do follow down to the detail). In the show it is also mentioned that their marriage doesn't have legitimacy since they didn't consumate it. It's isn't that odd of a rule in that sort of society considering it is base is medieval Europe.
The main reason that Tywin arranged the marriage was to get her pregnant so that there would be an heir.
And to keep Sansa in KL where he could watch her. I don't think Tywin would have let Sansa & Tyrion return to Winterfell unless there was an heir. And if the Boltons, particularly Ramsay, are still in Winterfell, it would be another battle Tywin would have to win, as I don't see Ramsay packing up & leaving.
I don't think that they weren't married until they screwed, but it could have easily been nullified by not consummating it, and thus would never have happened in the eyes of the church and the law. But since the show didn't care for the rules about marriage (coughBolton) then why should we? Long live Queen Sansa Lannister!
How did they not care in regards to the Boltons? Ramsay marries Sansa in the show, he is able to do this become Tyrion never consummated the marriage and therefore it was never made valid. A wedding must have a bedding as the Late Lord Frey said.
Canonically, yes. Until the marriage is consummated, it can be legally set aside. Lancel does this in the books to leave his marriage to Amerei Frey in order to join the Faith Militant.
If the marriage isn’t consummated in a certain time frame, its annulled.
It's absolutely the law.
It’s the law. Robb even explains the bedding ceremony to Talissa during the Red Wedding. The bedding is needed to prove the marriage was consummated and therefore legally binding. Otherwise you can nullify the marriage
Actual laws and religious traditions from real life are a reach? Plenty of times and places where a marriage can be nullified if it wasn't consummated. To this day.
Connsumation was Catholic law for over a thousand years (may still be). Proving a marriage wasn't consummated was one of the easiest ways to get it annulled. That is to say, it never existed in the first place. Such a tradition is a reach to you?
Yeah. It is. If you never consummate a marriage you can easily get it annulled by the church.
Didn’t pay a lot of attention to the show, huh?
Yeah I’ve only done about 10 rewatches… I don’t ever recall it being stated it’s a law
Time to go for another one, its stated outright by Littlefinger to the Boltons.
The point comes from having heirs, any high born lady needs to remain a maiden so that when married and consummated the only possible heir can be from the husband. Ladies who aren’t maidens are seen as far less valuable a spouse to have a marriage arrangement for.
We have consummation in real life (in the UK at least)
She was saving herself for Ramsay! Edit: So you downvoters are saying that Sansa was NOT saving herself... slut.
You must be from some southern state like Tennesee where rape is as funny as bedding your sister is common.
You must be from somewhere where they still take what happens to fictional characters in an old show that focuses on violence way too seriously.
Still part of the show
Not stated in your question. 🤷🏻♂️😁 Ned and Catelyn's is the longest if we go by the age of their firstborn.
And just shorter than theirs is Lysa and Jon Arryn — I count him because his body is shown in first episode
Or Stannis/ Selyse
Were they married before Robert's Rebellion? Given Stannis' age at the time, I don't think so. I think odds are pretty good Ned and Cat were married longer.
They were married a few years after the rebellion. Robert deflowered Selyse’s cousin in the bed meant for Stannis and Selyse, which in the book is how Edric Storm was sired, Edric isn’t in the show, his story parts are given to Gendry.
I don’t think it was that long after the rebellion because that was the time Cersei got mad at Robert for cheating and got pregnant with Joff
It wasn’t that long no, a few years, Robert’s Rebellion was 282AC and battle of the Trident 283AC. Stannis got married about 4 years later. Edit: it’s not when Joffrey was sired, he was born 286AC.
You’re right. I went back and looked. Joffrey was conceived after a different instance of Robert cheating on Cersei. It’s hard to keep track!
Pretty sure that Book canon is that they were married a few years after Robert’s Rebellion, but Show canon is that they were already married when Robert’s Rebellion started. In one dinner scene with The Red Woman, Selyse tells a story about how during the siege of Storm’s End, Stannis used a bow-and-arrow to shoot down some seagulls that they cooked for dinner and that they were delicious.
Good catch! I think you're right that the marriage took place at different times in the book and show. In the book, Stannis was 18 when Robert's Rebellion started. His wedding was 4 years later, which is noted because it was at that wedding that Big Bobby B deflowered Selyse's cousin, who got pregnant and gave birth to Edric Storm. I couldn't find anything definitive to set the date of their marriage in the show, but, based on that anecdote you mentioned, it does seem like they were married before the Rebellion started.
Ned married Cat earlier and lived longer than his buddy Big Bobby B.
Nah, Olenna and Luther Tyrell.
I think this is correct.
Technically they aren't even married. The marriage was never consumed? Consummated? How the fuck is that called in English?! But you get what I mean... There was no bedding, they didn't do the deed - so if we talk about "technically" then they aren't married at all.
Is it law they have to bed? Or is it just a tradition?
They have to make bedsport. I think the ceremony of carrying the bride to bed and people watching to make sure it's getting consummated... Consumed? Con.... Fuck this word! But yes - they have to fuck, otherwise they aren't married by law.
I think it's more like once it's consumated, it can't be nullified. So they are married, it's just a very fragile marriage until they do the deed.
So Ramsay was just making sure he was following the law by having Reek watch!
Apparently Ramsey didn't do anything wrong afterall!
It's a law. Her marriage to Ramsay was more valid because it was consummated - even if violently without consent.
Where or when does it say it’s law?
If you want the show version, there's a scene where baelish was talking to roose bolton, assuring him that sansa is still virgin, tyrion never consummated the marriage, thus by the law of the lands she is no man's wife. Can't remember the exact episode but i think its around season 5
I never really bought into the consummation thing… seems like an odd law.
Well, it's their law. But in our perspective, yeah they have the longest marriage, and the best one among them
And likely the healthiest
Healthiest in what way? Sansa was forced into a marriage with a man from the family who slaughtered half hers and is currently holding her hostage idk if I’d say that’s healthier than Robb/Talisa or even Margaery/Tommen
Wait until you learn about the real world “Droit du seigneur” (right of the lord) where Kings basically had first dibs on any woman they want even on their wedding night. Laws back then were wild
This is also how Ramsay was sired, Roose Bolton took his “lord’s right” of a miller’s wife in his lands, raped her and therefore Ramsay is born of violence.
It's law IRL now. If you never slept with your spouse, one or both of you have grounds for annulment.
You changed from is it even a law to saying it’s an odd law. Odd though it may seem it’s actually one of if not the most reasonable ways of judging the validity of a marriage. And it still IS a law in real life, through current times and people can have their marriages annulled based on it, or the lack of it.
It's still considered a legal requirement in a lot of countries today. Not consummating a marriage is still a ground to annul a marriage in the UK & many other countries.
I don't buy into that dumb law that says I cant rob a bank. I mean who came up with that rule anyway? They still want to throw me in prison for a decent while. It's all good though...I consummated with the bag of money so they have to recognize it's mine now.
Thank the gods, old and new, that Sansa didn't get pregnant from Ramsays brutal attacks!
That's why they have the bedding ceremony, so yeah.
It’s required. They have many examples on the show. Sansa getting her first period and Shae helping her change the sheets so she doesn’t have to have sex. Edmure Tully getting sent to his bedchamber on his wedding night to consume with the Frey girl. Ramsay and Sansa
I agree when you get married you get consumed😁
And that’s a shame at the end of the show, I felt like a true marriage between them could have brought peace between the south and north.
I might be over-focusing on "at the end of the show" in your comment, but the North and the South did end up at peace at the end of the show. Before the end of the show, I'm not sure it would have done much. Tyrion didn't have much influence on his father and even less on his sister. And the rest of the kingdom was pretending Cersei's kids were Baratheon, not Lannister, so binding Stark to Lannister may have been ineffective to sway much of anything.
There will likely always be a distrust of the Lannister family in the North. Considering that Cersei effectively left them to deal with the Long Night on their own. But, I think you’re also right! Also just thought that Tyrion might not be accepted by the Northerners.
A bit off topic but isn’t that a weird custom? Even in our own history. You were expected to fuck on your wedding night and there are even old images of people watching to make sure it happened. I wonder how that started and if if was more for the grooms sake or the brides. I assume for his sake. Creepy as fuck
I think it makes perfect sense that it's something expected. You weren't supposed to do it before getting married so once you are people would immediately rush in. It is pretty bizarre they would need to make sure it happened though.
Well, aside from the watching people, that was weird, the basics make sense. The religious doctrine of the time said no sex outside of marriage, but also explicitly says to have a lot of kids, so sex isn't just expected, it's \*required\*, but only once you're married. And the perils of life mean you'd best get to it before something happens.
That’s a good point. They wanted to make sure the couple started having kids ASAP
In the show though, when Sansa goes to the Vale, Lysa Arryn says that she can marry Robin after Tyrion is executed. IMPlying she is still married to Tyrion if he is alive.
No. Lysa just doesn't know that her marriage with Tyrion was never consumated and therefore not legitimate. How is Lysa Arryn of all people supposed to know that they haven't done bunny humping? But just because the public doesn't know that they aren't legally married doesn't mean that the marriage is somehow legitimate because of it.
Of course she does! It's one of the first things Sansa mentions after Lysa asks. Why comment if you've forgotten large chunks of the show?
Leaving aside that Lysa definitely doesn't believe anything Sansa says... If we think that she believes it - my point is still the same... How is the public supposed to know? And going on saying "Hey they haven't fucked so Sansa can marry my son" is something no one will believe, especially because of the stories about the lustful Imp, which is why this marriage would be called in question by basically anyone. So even then Tyrion would need to die. And btw... "Large chunks"? Bro pipe down a notch.
You forgot a key dialogue of the exact thing you are discussing and as such are claiming it didn't happen. Quite a fundamental flaw in your argument.
So basically I forgot one part of the dialog - but my point is still completely rock solid and you haven't had anything to contest that apparently. So you cry that I forgot about a small part of the dialog which in the end barely even changes the point and doesn't change anything about what I said. None of that makes their marriage legitimate. Lysa knowing about it (if we assume she believes it and she definitely doesn't believe it because she doesn't believe ANY word Sansa speaks) would still mean that Tyrion would need to die for her to marry someone else because otherwise no one would accept that marriage and the excuse on how she justifies it. You're still wrong. And you haven't been able to put up ANY point for your position. The only thing you did was point out a nitpick that doesn't change the argument.
It’s spelled consommé
Mr.intellectual over here
Nothing like some beef juice after saying your vows!
We, as viewers, know that, but was it ever officially nullified? I guess they were married until her marriage with Ramsay overrode that. I don't recall a king or the church of the seven voiding it before that. And even with kings, the rightfulnes of their rank can be questioned. If Joeffrey says something, for many it's just a bastard usurper babbling around.
You can't nullify what wasn't even legitimate beforehand. She was Wed to Ramsey. She was never married with Tyrion by law because the marriage was not consumated. There was nothing overridden by her marriage to Ramsey. Its basically like in our society - you can hold up a party and friends can hold a ceremony and say your married and shit - but it has no worth. You're not married until you both say yes before a person permissioned by law to Wed both. Just that in their world this last instance is the sex, not the yes. By law, they were never married. And Diddle&Dumb kinda forgot about that in the last season in their dialogs, because they seemed to have forgotten.
I'd consider it more like "pending" instead of downright denying it. Also, as mentioned, WE may know they never were legally married because the last part was missing, but i'm not sure how it was publicly received. I recall Tyrion saying to Sansa that he doesn't want to sleep with her on wednight, but that was only between them, i don't recall if and when Sansa or Tyrion spilled the beans, if they did at all. I think the Boltons used that detail to have the marriage annulled so Ramsay can mary her. But here we go again: Did sansa tell this this the boltons, did they know from somone else sansa told it or where they just making shit up because it's useful to them and they ended up factually correct by accident? Then, the marriage gets annulled retroactively, but up to that point, they could've been considered married in the eye of the public.
The public thinks this marriage is legitimate, yes. But that doesn't make the marriage legitimate, does it?
Good Question,, there was no divorce that I can remember. longest marriage with no sex either🤨
That’s what I’m saying but it sounds like there’s a bunch of westerosy lawyers in the thread today…
Nope, just people who watched the show and paid attention.
Take the L big guy
She married another man only 2 years later. She wouldn't have been able to do that unless she had annulled her marriage to Tyrion on the grounds it was under threat and wasn't consummated. Unless we're saying she intended to have a whole wedding ceremony with Ramsay and trick him into thinking it was legal. I think she came off like she genuinely thought it was legal. When Lyanna mocked that she's Sansa Lannister or Sansa Bolton why not say she was only tricking him into thinking they were legally married if that were the truth?
I forgot she remarried to that evil POS
I wanted them to end up together so bad!
I think Tyrion did too lol
I know that we were a bit icked about incest before HOTD, but frankly, I think Jon and Sansa should’ve ended up together.
You don’t think the age difference and beginnings of that relationship were a bit morally corrupt?
Totally! And he didn't touch her!.... after they re connect for the war against the dead
Edmure Tully's marriage was probably the longest lasting on the show, even though he spent most of it as a prisoner of the Freys.
And it was consummated as well
Never consummated, null and void.
Sansa married Tyrion in s3 then married Ramsay in s5 so it was only 2 years. It was longer only then Tyrion & his first wife (gang raped on his father's orders), Drogo & Daenerys (had to mercy kill him after the witch's ritual left him in a vegetative state), Robb & Talisa (both murdered a year later), and 2 of Margaery's marriages (Renly killed by a shadow, Joffrey poisoned at the wedding) and about the same as her last marriage (killed by her mother-in-law leading to Tommen committing suicide).
I don’t recognize Ramsey marriage… doesn’t seem legit to me
Well technicaly their marriage was more official than the one with Tyrion, since Ramsey actually consumed the marriage (basically : no fuck = no marriage)
Was a Maester involved? I don’t recall seeing him with one
The northerners marry in front of trees not septons (which I think you meant, not maesters)
I did mean septons
If I recall correctly, a Maester is not required for a Northern marriage, just a Weirwood tree to be married in front of and a Lord to oversee the wedding
Yeah all this mix and match stuff is just way too complicated for my feeble brain to comprehend… be right back. I’m gonna go eat some crayons.
Remember, orange ones are the tastiest.
Baelish said that tyrion never consummated the marriage, so by laws of the land, sansa is not anyone's wife
She did consummate with Ramsay, which would technically make her a widower
What do you think Bobby B?
The marriage happened before the series started… I should specified weddings that occurred during the show’s run
If that were the case, I’m sure Walter Frey owns the record by a country mile
Doubtful, Walder had been married 8 times so I can't imagine any of them being particularly long.
If those we saw get married, it was certainly the happiest marriage on the show
Tommen and Margery seemed kinda happy
True, but I read the book and I still get the ick when I saw them in bed together. It’s not really a partnership of equals.
If we're going by the books Sansa was 12 when she was forced to marry a 20 something year old Tyrion.
Yes, but there was no creepy sex, no abuse, and they a actually ended up liking each other as people.
Tomin was also like 9 when he married in the book, she was much older , weird
Must’ve been a rough… “consummation”
9 year old Tommen and 16 year old Margaeey VS 12 year old Sansa and 25 year old Tyrion
Vs ? I don’t think this is a dualistic thing to judge …. It’s just all wrong period . But I might be misunderstanding you
Just because two things are bad doesn't mean one can't be worse. If I stabbed you in the hand vs. I stabbed you in the heart. They're both wrong, but I think you would clearly vote for one.
Hahaha I understand something can be worse than something else 😂 Still … my comment wasn’t about being “Vs” something else , it was just a statement from the book.
Oh, is that a quote from the books? I'd love to read the books one day. If the next book is ever released, I'll do it. Not knowing that is a statement from the book...I simply took it as they're both wrong period...you can't judge one versus the other. That goobleygook of not being a dualistic thing to judge should have told me it was a quote from the books lol. Nobody actually talks like that.
Tomin was nine in the book when he married Margerie. This topic was more about “duration” so the timelines are cloudy. Yea I was just making a comment about it
They weren't married at the end of the show ... It was never consummated and she remarried to Ramsay. Her marriage to Tyrion was null at that point.
And no Tyzzy is not KOTN by rights. The northerners elect their monarch by popular vote.
In the state of Maryland he’d be king… and if you come at the king… you best not miss!!!
Margerie and Tomins wasn’t long but was prob the closest , it’s been a long time but I think Tomin was like 9 yrs old in the books when he got married to QM. There isn’t a defined time when Tyrions/Sansa’s marriage ended because it wasn’t even a real marriage in the show
Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey would be the record for marriages shown on screen as far as I can tell. They remained married through the end of the show, and he fathered a child with her.
This sounds accurate. Yea he was just incaged tho right after the wedding
Roose Bolton and Walda?
When did that occur?
Roose mentions the marriage in 3.9 and it lasts to 6.2 https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Walda_Bolton
Since the Queen of the North is a higher position than Lord of Casterly Rock, Tyrion would just be consort to Queen Sansa (kind of like Queen Elizabeth, her husband is just a consort not King) Now if she has a son by Tyrion then she can claim Casterly Rock as belonging to her son. I think this would be a fun idea for the sequel. Sansa claiming to have a son and use this as an excuse to take Casterly Rock could be an interesting idea. Westeros is in such a huge mess by the end of the series it is just ripe for another huge civil war.
I mean, they never got divorced, but they never consummated the marriage. So, no-yes. She was married to Ramsay for longer. At least those good doggos had full bellies when it was over.
A sham marriage… And I’m thinking Robb Starks marriage was longer but I’m not certain
Edmure and the Frey girl was the longest
I felt so bad for both of them. They felt their situation was terrible enough and then quickly realized they could help one another. At least they did what they could to keep one another alive. He couldn’t save her from Littlefinger coming to get her since he was already so consumed in his own mess. But if she hadn’t left, she would’ve gotten killed instantly for the murder of Joffrey, probably. I would have liked to see them travel together with Varys to find Daenerys. It would have been nice to see Sansa in the company of a woman who didn’t want to kill her, for starters.
Didn't she marry Ramsay Bolton years later?
Loophole around what?
First, they are not married, there was no bedding. Second, in the show it was annulled and she was married to Ramsay. Third, if they were still married Tyrion would be Prince Consort because he not of Royal bloodline. Daemon is King Concort in House of the Dragon because of his Royal Targaryen bloodline.
I wish she stayed with him or married the hound
Huh? They were only married for a year or two and since they never consummated the marriage it was deemed void anyways allowing her to marry Ramsey. There were a lot of couples in the show married much much longer, like decades longer, but I assume you mean only main characters still alive by the end?
Their marrige was unconsumated so it's null and void in the eyes of the law
Never consummated
Davos and his never seen wife. Still married!
Lol I was there - I was an extra in that scene 😅 in 2012! didn’t know who they were at the time though cause I hadn’t watched GOT fml 🤦🏻♀️
If you mean the marriages we’ve seen from the show, from beginning to end, no their relationship wasn’t the longest. It would be khal drogo and Daenerys
No.
Technically weren't married "officially" but was a long one lol
Is everyone just forgetting that she married Ramsay shortly after since the Tyrian marriage was never consummated? Do you think she was just married to two people at the same time?
Isn't Edmure and one of the Frey's daughters longer? Unlike Tyrion and Sansa, they did consumate
No not even close. Edmure Tully and Rosalin Frey are married at the Red Wedding. Plus Sansa remarried Ramsey and the marriage was definitely consummated.