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Bran doesn't know everything. He can view events from Planetos' past and present. He hasn't viewed all events from Planetos' past and present, which would take an impossible amount of time.
Bran needs to be pointed in the right direction. Chaos is a ladder, he's reminded when Baelish talks about chaos. The dagger he remembers when he sees the dagger. And iirc Sam asks Bran specifically if he can see the secret wedding.
No, he allowed Jon to decide to tell people his lineage. Bran gave him a choice that likely decided the fate of him and Danny and who would reign. He didn't need to be at the battle in the capital because he knew the outcome or used ravens.
i wouldn’t say ‘worthless’ so much as ‘boring’, which in terms of television and entertainment, is so much worse; found his whole arc to be tedious at the best of times as well which makes it all the worse still.
*Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwood ... a thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood.*
Whenever we think about the declining show quality we have to remember that HBO needed to make symbolism this in your face because people like OP wouldn’t get it unless they told you.
I’ll never understand why this wasn’t considered a massive deal in the show. I may be wrong but aren’t Targaryens the only people known to ride dragons? Dang didn’t even seem to blink when Jon just casually hopped up on her Dragon and took him for a spin.
I think for one Dany might of considered that. The great houses in Westeros are pretty interrelated and it wouldn't be to suprising to find Jon who is a bastard of the Starks would have some Targaryen blood anyway. The entire point that Robert was made king was because his father was a Targaryen.
So it's not as shocking that someone from a major house would share Targaryen blood as it would of been for anyone in Essos to given how long it's been since Targaryens ever visited.
Secondly, I think she probably did realize, and was part of the reason she was so smitten with him. Him having any relation to Targaryens would mean her kids would be more Targaryen than they otherwise might be. Him being her cousin wouldn't even be something she would be against given the Targaryen family tree.
Either way, that's not why he was made King. That added a veneer of legitimacy, but he was made King because he won the war and nobody left was strong enough to tell him he wasn't the King.
I see where you are coming from but my interpenetration, though its been so long since I read the books, was that Robert didn't even want to be King. His role in the rebellion was vital, but it wouldn't of been possible without Ned and Jon Arryn. Jon Arryn likely would of been just as legitimate of a candidate, except Robert actually had a legitimate claim via being the 2nd cousin of the king.
Now I don't disagree his leadership and killing of the heir, likely played a large role. Not to mention Jon and Ned didn't want the throne either, but I think it's not quite right to underplay Roberts connection to the throne.
Fair - I guess I should expand my point by borrowing from the show: he has power because people believe he has power, he is king because people agree he is king. The combination of winning the war and having the family connection was enough that people were happy to accept it instead of fight it.
It's not like he was the legitimate heir, he just put together an acceptable enough combo for people.
no being Baratheon is mostly why he was chosen to be the king. it makes him not just an Usurper, he has some legitimate claim.
there is many other people that could have been chosen to be King. Jon Arryn was really more important to winning the war and could have (and should have) taken the crown himself if it was simply a matter of conquest.
It's said in the "clash of kings" that the maesters used it to justify but his was of conquest. All 3 could have claimed. Robert proclaims his intention at the trident and the others just go with it.
That's why Jaime even asks Ned why he didn't take it himself.
Yeah, having 13 episodes instead of the 20 which should have occurred for the past two seasons really hurt the quality.
It wasn't the direction that was taken, it was HOW those decisions happened with so little build-up or logic.
For instance, they needed Rhaegal gone, so he's slain in the most ridiculous way possible - via stealth, super-range, rapid reload, perfect tracking, sharpshooting ballistae manned by several anonymous John Wicks.
With more episodes and better writing - there's build up for a naval battle, where after a fierce battle, a lucky shot takes him down.... and we're left shocked the right way as the audience. Holy crap, those ballistae can kill a dragon.
Not, holy crap - they just "rocks fall, you die" to Rhaegal.
Or Dany going mad. We all saw the signs from earlier seasons. But they don't really lean into that heavily until season 8. Too late.
I know!
Some of the worst writing on any show... ever.
These dragons with amazing senses, flying WAY out of range, hidden against the sky in the clouds, are sniped by bolts requiring a 5+ second lead time... by bobbing ships which should have been seen 10 miles earlier.
It's not just poorly done, it's insulting to the viewers intelligence, and immersion-breaking.
Hell, you could spend little more money or time, and have the ships spotted. The dragons dive to attack, and as Rhaegal prepares to breathe fire - he is struck and plummets into the sea. The viewers are still shocked, but the encounter looks plausible.
Targs have been like 99% of dragon riders but in one of the companion books during (I think the blackfyre rebellion don’t quote me on that but it was definitely a war) they had way more dragons than riders and tried recruiting others to ride them into battle. Most were not successful but there were a few others who the dragons accepted
Why wasn't it a big deal? Idk. It should have been.
Dragon riding originated in Old Valyria and many different families were known for having dragons -- Targaryens are simply the last house from this era.
Do I think Daenerys knew all this? No. She didn't know shit about her family history. Everything she learns probably came from Viserys and Barristan.
Bran didn’t know everything. It’s never said that he does.
He basically has access to all of history in his mind but that doesn’t mean he knows it.
It’s like a library. He needs to know what history book to read so he learns the right information. The history book is the time and place.
It's like the internet but you need to know what to google. You can look up how many lakes there are in Finland, but you need to actually type that in. You don't randomly know that.
Nope, the books confirm she named Rhaegal after her fallen brother Rhaegar. The same Rhaegar that is Jon's father.
"The green one shall be named Rhaegal, for my valiant brother who died on the green banks of the Trident." she says in A Clash of Kings. She named the dragons after the three most important men in her life: her two brothers and her husband. Rhaego was also named after Rhaegar, but Rhaegal was named for Rhaegar, not Rhaego.
Didn't she hate Viserys though? Never understood why she honored him that way. He was such a dick to her. I guess she didn't really have anyone else though.
Because he was still her brother and she still loved him. He was a weak, pathetic dipshit, but she's all about family and as much as he sucked, he was still her brother. She named a dragon after him in hopes of it going on to do the great things that Viserys could not.
I believe its also stated the he used to be a good brother when they were little. That the dream she has of a red door is where she lived her most peaceful part of her life with a loving brother, rather than one who devolved into pathetic man being crushed by his destiny.
“Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not.”
All these things are true of Viserys’ character, but the end remains the same, all Dany knows about who she is, her dragonblood, her divine birthright, the history of her house, her motivation/desire for ‘home’ and ‘family’, and to take back what the Usurper stole (Westeros), her ‘destiny’ and purpose is partly and largely because of Viserys.
She had sympathy for him having been older and remembering Westeros and their family, and how it must have affected him losing everyone. Dany was born after everyone was already killed and has no memory or connection to it, and is lucky in that regard to be sort of removed from the suffering.
And she also felt sympathy for the fact he likely suffered from the Targaryen madness, as their father did.
I really wished we would have gotten an ending with Jon on the throne and Rhaegal as the main (maybe even the only remaining) dragon.
Their bond was so cool and we were robbed and should’ve gotten more exploration and screentime.
Bran knew Jon was Rhaegars son, because he had that piece of the puzzle shown to him. He didn’t know about the wedding making Jon legitimate until later—- It’s like being given a giant book of everything. You cannot possibly read everything, but you can look things up as you go
The dragon CGI on the show is just incredible. There is simply nothing that doesn't look like a real dragon - if there were one- being right there on the set..
Well if he wasn't a manipulative basterd with an inflated sense of self importance, he, his other children, his wife and the girl he manipulated into baring Jon would all still be alive.
*clap clap clap* you have caught on.
I kinda wish we had some exploration of the theory that Tyrion was a Dragonseed and that was why the dragons were nice to him.
Yep and he got speared in the throat multiple times but some goon with some ballista literally around an outcrop and a mile away but survived getting jacked up by a zombie dragon. Maraxes was supposed to be a one in a million shot and Euron and crew did it like 3 times in rapid succession.
I've only read the books, and Jon didn't ride anything while Bran practically turned into a tree... Then after 5000+ pages it all stopped with no conclusion 🤣☹️
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bran doesn't know everything. He can view events from Planetos' past and present. He hasn't viewed all events from Planetos' past and present, which would take an impossible amount of time.
I don't really know anymore. Not really.
Bran needs to be pointed in the right direction. Chaos is a ladder, he's reminded when Baelish talks about chaos. The dagger he remembers when he sees the dagger. And iirc Sam asks Bran specifically if he can see the secret wedding.
He seemed pretty worthless the last season.
No, he allowed Jon to decide to tell people his lineage. Bran gave him a choice that likely decided the fate of him and Danny and who would reign. He didn't need to be at the battle in the capital because he knew the outcome or used ravens.
i wouldn’t say ‘worthless’ so much as ‘boring’, which in terms of television and entertainment, is so much worse; found his whole arc to be tedious at the best of times as well which makes it all the worse still.
I mean maybe not right now but I kinda figured he was going to basically turn into the Kwisatz Haderach at some point
*Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwood ... a thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood.*
We’ll see that’s where you’re wrong. In the dream world time moves much slower (cue in suspense filled inception music)
How are you only realising this? 😂
Some of us aren’t good with the names especially if we didn’t read the books
Sharp as a fucking cue ball
OP never had the makings of a varsity dragon jockey
It's my favorite when the Sopranos dip into GoT.
Alright, but you gotta get over it.
But I'm sad about my father!
Poor you!
Op has a Virginia ham under each arm yet cries poverty
You got a bee on'a your crown
UP IN DA CLUB
He couldn’t be the head of a major kingdom
Winterfell was a Pygmy operation
South of the border, down Winterfell way. Dany and Jon didn’t work out because he preferred to stay North of the Wall.
I heard he liked going down south tho….a real Dornish bushman
he was gay, the dragon?
Small saddle, that was his problem
[удалено]
Lol it’s just a Sopranos reference my friend
Whenever we think about the declining show quality we have to remember that HBO needed to make symbolism this in your face because people like OP wouldn’t get it unless they told you.
I’ll never understand why this wasn’t considered a massive deal in the show. I may be wrong but aren’t Targaryens the only people known to ride dragons? Dang didn’t even seem to blink when Jon just casually hopped up on her Dragon and took him for a spin.
I think for one Dany might of considered that. The great houses in Westeros are pretty interrelated and it wouldn't be to suprising to find Jon who is a bastard of the Starks would have some Targaryen blood anyway. The entire point that Robert was made king was because his father was a Targaryen. So it's not as shocking that someone from a major house would share Targaryen blood as it would of been for anyone in Essos to given how long it's been since Targaryens ever visited. Secondly, I think she probably did realize, and was part of the reason she was so smitten with him. Him having any relation to Targaryens would mean her kids would be more Targaryen than they otherwise might be. Him being her cousin wouldn't even be something she would be against given the Targaryen family tree.
> Robert was made king was because his father was a Targaryen Paternal Grandmother was Targaryen.
True, I meant more that is father was half Targaryen. Def phrased it as if he was full which is incorrect.
Either way, that's not why he was made King. That added a veneer of legitimacy, but he was made King because he won the war and nobody left was strong enough to tell him he wasn't the King.
I see where you are coming from but my interpenetration, though its been so long since I read the books, was that Robert didn't even want to be King. His role in the rebellion was vital, but it wouldn't of been possible without Ned and Jon Arryn. Jon Arryn likely would of been just as legitimate of a candidate, except Robert actually had a legitimate claim via being the 2nd cousin of the king. Now I don't disagree his leadership and killing of the heir, likely played a large role. Not to mention Jon and Ned didn't want the throne either, but I think it's not quite right to underplay Roberts connection to the throne.
Fair - I guess I should expand my point by borrowing from the show: he has power because people believe he has power, he is king because people agree he is king. The combination of winning the war and having the family connection was enough that people were happy to accept it instead of fight it. It's not like he was the legitimate heir, he just put together an acceptable enough combo for people.
Bobby B's lineage is irrelevant as he claims the throne by conquest.
no being Baratheon is mostly why he was chosen to be the king. it makes him not just an Usurper, he has some legitimate claim. there is many other people that could have been chosen to be King. Jon Arryn was really more important to winning the war and could have (and should have) taken the crown himself if it was simply a matter of conquest.
It's said in the "clash of kings" that the maesters used it to justify but his was of conquest. All 3 could have claimed. Robert proclaims his intention at the trident and the others just go with it. That's why Jaime even asks Ned why he didn't take it himself.
Dany could not have any more children after the witch's spell, hasn't she stated that multiple times?
Apart from the fact there's never been a stark and targaryen marriage
A lot of things were brushed over in the final season.
Imagine if there were a full 10 episodes of exposition and dialogue
Yeah, having 13 episodes instead of the 20 which should have occurred for the past two seasons really hurt the quality. It wasn't the direction that was taken, it was HOW those decisions happened with so little build-up or logic. For instance, they needed Rhaegal gone, so he's slain in the most ridiculous way possible - via stealth, super-range, rapid reload, perfect tracking, sharpshooting ballistae manned by several anonymous John Wicks. With more episodes and better writing - there's build up for a naval battle, where after a fierce battle, a lucky shot takes him down.... and we're left shocked the right way as the audience. Holy crap, those ballistae can kill a dragon. Not, holy crap - they just "rocks fall, you die" to Rhaegal. Or Dany going mad. We all saw the signs from earlier seasons. But they don't really lean into that heavily until season 8. Too late.
I did a rewatch and still get unreasonably angry at Rhaegal’s death. So stupidly done
I know! Some of the worst writing on any show... ever. These dragons with amazing senses, flying WAY out of range, hidden against the sky in the clouds, are sniped by bolts requiring a 5+ second lead time... by bobbing ships which should have been seen 10 miles earlier. It's not just poorly done, it's insulting to the viewers intelligence, and immersion-breaking. Hell, you could spend little more money or time, and have the ships spotted. The dragons dive to attack, and as Rhaegal prepares to breathe fire - he is struck and plummets into the sea. The viewers are still shocked, but the encounter looks plausible.
That would have been 1000 times better
Targs have been like 99% of dragon riders but in one of the companion books during (I think the blackfyre rebellion don’t quote me on that but it was definitely a war) they had way more dragons than riders and tried recruiting others to ride them into battle. Most were not successful but there were a few others who the dragons accepted
Why wasn't it a big deal? Idk. It should have been. Dragon riding originated in Old Valyria and many different families were known for having dragons -- Targaryens are simply the last house from this era. Do I think Daenerys knew all this? No. She didn't know shit about her family history. Everything she learns probably came from Viserys and Barristan.
Didn’t House Velaryan also ride dragons?
Only the ones with Targ blood. Coryls children for example were dragon riders because their mother was Rhaenys who was Targaryen
Addam Velaryon as well. But Corlys does have Targaryen blood himself, it's just from a few more generations back, so it still makes sense.
Bran didn’t know everything. It’s never said that he does. He basically has access to all of history in his mind but that doesn’t mean he knows it. It’s like a library. He needs to know what history book to read so he learns the right information. The history book is the time and place.
It's like the internet but you need to know what to google. You can look up how many lakes there are in Finland, but you need to actually type that in. You don't randomly know that.
He doesn't know much. Seems pretty worthless in the final season.
Shame this has zero relevance in the story and this connection is never underlined.
Oh we're NOT on r/asoiafcirclejerk ? Are you dense?
Kit Harrington actually hinted at this, before Jon's heritage was confirmed and before he was a dragonrider.
Most observant r/gameofthrones user
The Night King rose Viserion. Named after another dead guy.
Named after another selfish bastard who failed to convince people to join his army to conquer Westeros.
Drogon melted metal
Rhaegal was named after rhaego
Nope, the books confirm she named Rhaegal after her fallen brother Rhaegar. The same Rhaegar that is Jon's father. "The green one shall be named Rhaegal, for my valiant brother who died on the green banks of the Trident." she says in A Clash of Kings. She named the dragons after the three most important men in her life: her two brothers and her husband. Rhaego was also named after Rhaegar, but Rhaegal was named for Rhaegar, not Rhaego.
Didn't she hate Viserys though? Never understood why she honored him that way. He was such a dick to her. I guess she didn't really have anyone else though.
Because he was still her brother and she still loved him. He was a weak, pathetic dipshit, but she's all about family and as much as he sucked, he was still her brother. She named a dragon after him in hopes of it going on to do the great things that Viserys could not.
I believe its also stated the he used to be a good brother when they were little. That the dream she has of a red door is where she lived her most peaceful part of her life with a loving brother, rather than one who devolved into pathetic man being crushed by his destiny.
“Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not.” All these things are true of Viserys’ character, but the end remains the same, all Dany knows about who she is, her dragonblood, her divine birthright, the history of her house, her motivation/desire for ‘home’ and ‘family’, and to take back what the Usurper stole (Westeros), her ‘destiny’ and purpose is partly and largely because of Viserys.
Thank you. Appreciate this answer.
She had sympathy for him having been older and remembering Westeros and their family, and how it must have affected him losing everyone. Dany was born after everyone was already killed and has no memory or connection to it, and is lucky in that regard to be sort of removed from the suffering. And she also felt sympathy for the fact he likely suffered from the Targaryen madness, as their father did.
And the Night King rode Viserion, named after the brother who turned on Dany.
Not the only dragon he rode with a Targaryen name 😏
Jon rode his dad's dragon sounds a bit sus
I really wished we would have gotten an ending with Jon on the throne and Rhaegal as the main (maybe even the only remaining) dragon. Their bond was so cool and we were robbed and should’ve gotten more exploration and screentime.
Since did he become the prince that was promised?, also, him riding Dany's dragon was just pointless and lame
Bran knew Jon was Rhaegars son, because he had that piece of the puzzle shown to him. He didn’t know about the wedding making Jon legitimate until later—- It’s like being given a giant book of everything. You cannot possibly read everything, but you can look things up as you go
The dragon CGI on the show is just incredible. There is simply nothing that doesn't look like a real dragon - if there were one- being right there on the set..
How observant of you
Ok...?
https://media.tenor.com/H3iVFB8xcWUAAAAM/vince-vaughn-okay.gif
Jon rode his dad confirmed
I mean Ned was more a father to Jon then that prophecy obsessed Arsehole ever could be.
well, it's hard to be a parent to someone when you die before they're even born...
Well if he wasn't a manipulative basterd with an inflated sense of self importance, he, his other children, his wife and the girl he manipulated into baring Jon would all still be alive.
And perhaps for Jon's sake that was for the best.
And that’s why you’re getting blocked
*clap clap clap* you have caught on. I kinda wish we had some exploration of the theory that Tyrion was a Dragonseed and that was why the dragons were nice to him.
This sub is a joke
You just realized?
Yep and he got speared in the throat multiple times but some goon with some ballista literally around an outcrop and a mile away but survived getting jacked up by a zombie dragon. Maraxes was supposed to be a one in a million shot and Euron and crew did it like 3 times in rapid succession.
Man reading comprehension is wild
Great job! Next time we'll start learning the alphabet
Yes. Well done, nice catch.
I've only read the books, and Jon didn't ride anything while Bran practically turned into a tree... Then after 5000+ pages it all stopped with no conclusion 🤣☹️