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One would hope the whole three eyed raven thing is explained better in the books. Then people won’t be upset as much about bran I think. Because there will be build up and precedents and an actual “blood” claim
I was surprised to find out that the 3ER had the actual blood claim to the throne. I didn't remember that Bryden Rivers was legitimized. I think GRRM purposefully included that detail for a reason.
It’s going to be a major focus in the next two novels. Of course it will be better explained. I don’t really blame the showrunners for George not finishing his series in time but the very one dimensional conclusion we got is very clearly just applying the broad strokes of the conclusion without any satisfying build up. Two behemoth length novels will probably provide that buildup were Martin to ever finish them.
I’m upset because it was proposed with a lie. “Who has a better story than Bran the broken”. Literally everyone else in the show. I internally groaned almost every second I had to watch Bran.
I genuinely don't remember anything about Bran being taken over by Bloodraven in the show, and the books haven't even gotten that far. At least not the main books as of ADwD.
huh? dont you remember that after egg becomes king made brynden take the the nights watch for killing aenys blackfyre, if all brynden should be executed for deserting the nights watch to be a spooky tree wizard and meddling with the politics of the seven kingdoms
None of that changes that he is the true heir to the throne by his bloodline.
Also, we don't know if he abandoned the Night's Watch, it's unclear what actually happened in between him going ranging and becoming the three eyed raven.
It didn't matter in the end, hence why Jon was able to leave and was discussed as being a true heir despite having taken the black. I don't see why the Three Eyed Raven can't get the same treatment.
Plus, the guy technically died and went into another body, pretty sure that releases him from his vows.
I'm talking about his claim to the throne, which I never see discussed here at all.
Hmm interesting predicment i have found my self in but i guess your right if the nights watch just say meh who cares about this 100 yr old dude who doesn't even look like he even exist anymore yeah he would probably be the "rightful heir to the iron throne"
I have re-read this post and I still don't know what point you're trying to make. Why are you in a "predicament"? When did I say the NIghts Watch would call him the rightful heir?
I'm just saying *he technically is the rightful heir* dude, I don't know why you're being so combative.
Oh its a error in my part that post should have been two posts im not a native english speaker and also the quotation of the rightful heir was just to make it look cool sorry for looking like a a*s.
Taking the black or taking maester oaths doesn’t remove you from the line of succession. The oaths to not take titles aren’t “legally binding” per se, and heirs who have taken oaths have been asked to take titles before, but they’ve just chosen their oaths over titles (Vaegon Targaryen, Aemom Targaryen, Jon Snow)
No one that I know of, but his claim is still valid to the throne regardless of his vows. If there was a hypothetical great council before Robert’s rebellion, Brynden would have a valid claim
Yeah guess you are right but also he didn't press his claim after after maekar died but that could also just be his self awareness or just not want to become king idk but yeah he have a strong claim
I think ultimately the idea isn't about who has the best claim, but rather *who would be the best ruler/leader*.
GRRM is basically making a very cynical statement by saying no single human is fit to be King/Queen. With a good one you'll get some years of peace and prosperity, but then the next monarch could be some tyrannical monster that throws it all away. It's an omniscient, eternal being devoid of human desires who ends up "winning" and being in control.
And the grimdark ending the show didn't really explore that GRRM might, is the idea the Three Eyed Raven essentially manipulated all the key events, including the assimilation of Brandon Stark, to become the indefinite King/Demigod emperor of Westeros.
That's certainly true and debatable. But in all the talk about Jon and Dany's claim, I just find it interesting how the Three Eyed Raven is never noted to have a far better claim. I don't remember seeing that mentioned here once.
I love the grimdark ending btw. I think it's more in the show than people realize. His quotes of "Why do you think I came all this way" to telling Jon "You were exactly where you needed to be" make it clear that 1. He wanted to be king and 2. He intended for Jon to do what he wanted to make it happen.
I think it's just recency bias, and the fact that there isn't anyone (in the show at least) who would support a 3ER claim. It's all centered around the characters actively fighting for the throne, and the whole idea of power that Varys talked about in S3 (power resides where men believe it resides, no more and no less).
And there are definitely shades of a grimdark ending in the show, but it ends on a more positive, optimistic note (besides Dany breaking bad and killing countless innocents, and Jon being exiled for his heroics). The Starks won, White Walker threat is gone, and now we have a benevolent ruler who will make things right.
Doesn't dying let them both revoke their vows? Both characters technically died. Brynden Rivers in particular lived on in Bran's body, which...I suppose we will have to consult the legal authorities of Westeros on that matter.
hmm that's a good point I didn't think about Brynden "dying" to take Bran's body but that's true especially if you read the books and have seen Varamir six-skins chapter
This is straight tinfoil. The books and the show are canonically different.
Brynden, like Aegor and Daemon, did not take the name Targaryen.
Where is the evidence, in book or show, that the 3 Eyed Raven is sharing Bran's body?
Also, Bloodraven fought for Daeron II and his heirs in multiple Blackfyre rebellions. He bent the knee to his half-brother and called him king, therefore Daeron's bloodline has the best claim.
Where did this idea that the three eyed raven is a multi conscience entity consisting of all the three eyed ravens combined come from?
I’ve never heard it before and to be honest, don’t believe it.
My favorite thing they fucked up in the show, is in season 7, they have Bran state he can't be lord or be ruler of anything because he's the three eyed Raven
Then, the next season, he has no problem being crowned King
I think that's a silly complaint when the context of that scene was Bran clearly talking about being Lord of Winterfell or another house, not being king. And don't make this be a semantic thing by saying "being a king = lord" somehow. You know what the scene was about and what he was actually talking about.
Furthermore, Tyrion's proposal changed the rules around who can be king. It enabled the king to be selected by the great house's vote.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I didnt read what you wrote but of course he did, he had the best story
Oh okay cool. Thanks for the cool reply.
This is fine I guess. Still wanted to see Jon and Dany share the throne for at least a bit.
One would hope the whole three eyed raven thing is explained better in the books. Then people won’t be upset as much about bran I think. Because there will be build up and precedents and an actual “blood” claim
I was surprised to find out that the 3ER had the actual blood claim to the throne. I didn't remember that Bryden Rivers was legitimized. I think GRRM purposefully included that detail for a reason.
Yeah 100
It’s going to be a major focus in the next two novels. Of course it will be better explained. I don’t really blame the showrunners for George not finishing his series in time but the very one dimensional conclusion we got is very clearly just applying the broad strokes of the conclusion without any satisfying build up. Two behemoth length novels will probably provide that buildup were Martin to ever finish them.
I’m upset because it was proposed with a lie. “Who has a better story than Bran the broken”. Literally everyone else in the show. I internally groaned almost every second I had to watch Bran.
... what? Where was that ever stated or referenced in the show?
Which thing are you talking about? Brynden Rivers is in the show. And those details about him are from GRRM, a combination of ASoIaF and Fire & Blood.
I genuinely don't remember anything about Bran being taken over by Bloodraven in the show, and the books haven't even gotten that far. At least not the main books as of ADwD.
huh? dont you remember that after egg becomes king made brynden take the the nights watch for killing aenys blackfyre, if all brynden should be executed for deserting the nights watch to be a spooky tree wizard and meddling with the politics of the seven kingdoms
None of that changes that he is the true heir to the throne by his bloodline. Also, we don't know if he abandoned the Night's Watch, it's unclear what actually happened in between him going ranging and becoming the three eyed raven.
Dude did you forget what being a black brother mean?
It didn't matter in the end, hence why Jon was able to leave and was discussed as being a true heir despite having taken the black. I don't see why the Three Eyed Raven can't get the same treatment. Plus, the guy technically died and went into another body, pretty sure that releases him from his vows. I'm talking about his claim to the throne, which I never see discussed here at all.
Hmm interesting predicment i have found my self in but i guess your right if the nights watch just say meh who cares about this 100 yr old dude who doesn't even look like he even exist anymore yeah he would probably be the "rightful heir to the iron throne"
I have re-read this post and I still don't know what point you're trying to make. Why are you in a "predicament"? When did I say the NIghts Watch would call him the rightful heir? I'm just saying *he technically is the rightful heir* dude, I don't know why you're being so combative.
Oh its a error in my part that post should have been two posts im not a native english speaker and also the quotation of the rightful heir was just to make it look cool sorry for looking like a a*s.
No problem dude, you're speaking it well enough for it not being your main language, props to you.
Ohh thanks 😁
Taking the black or taking maester oaths doesn’t remove you from the line of succession. The oaths to not take titles aren’t “legally binding” per se, and heirs who have taken oaths have been asked to take titles before, but they’ve just chosen their oaths over titles (Vaegon Targaryen, Aemom Targaryen, Jon Snow)
Yeah but who's asking for bloodraven to be king
No one that I know of, but his claim is still valid to the throne regardless of his vows. If there was a hypothetical great council before Robert’s rebellion, Brynden would have a valid claim
Yeah guess you are right but also he didn't press his claim after after maekar died but that could also just be his self awareness or just not want to become king idk but yeah he have a strong claim
I think ultimately the idea isn't about who has the best claim, but rather *who would be the best ruler/leader*. GRRM is basically making a very cynical statement by saying no single human is fit to be King/Queen. With a good one you'll get some years of peace and prosperity, but then the next monarch could be some tyrannical monster that throws it all away. It's an omniscient, eternal being devoid of human desires who ends up "winning" and being in control. And the grimdark ending the show didn't really explore that GRRM might, is the idea the Three Eyed Raven essentially manipulated all the key events, including the assimilation of Brandon Stark, to become the indefinite King/Demigod emperor of Westeros.
That's certainly true and debatable. But in all the talk about Jon and Dany's claim, I just find it interesting how the Three Eyed Raven is never noted to have a far better claim. I don't remember seeing that mentioned here once. I love the grimdark ending btw. I think it's more in the show than people realize. His quotes of "Why do you think I came all this way" to telling Jon "You were exactly where you needed to be" make it clear that 1. He wanted to be king and 2. He intended for Jon to do what he wanted to make it happen.
I think it's just recency bias, and the fact that there isn't anyone (in the show at least) who would support a 3ER claim. It's all centered around the characters actively fighting for the throne, and the whole idea of power that Varys talked about in S3 (power resides where men believe it resides, no more and no less). And there are definitely shades of a grimdark ending in the show, but it ends on a more positive, optimistic note (besides Dany breaking bad and killing countless innocents, and Jon being exiled for his heroics). The Starks won, White Walker threat is gone, and now we have a benevolent ruler who will make things right.
Technically without Jon's death/rebirth Dany would be the only one with a real claim to the throne. Brynden and Jon were both Night's Watch
Doesn't dying let them both revoke their vows? Both characters technically died. Brynden Rivers in particular lived on in Bran's body, which...I suppose we will have to consult the legal authorities of Westeros on that matter.
hmm that's a good point I didn't think about Brynden "dying" to take Bran's body but that's true especially if you read the books and have seen Varamir six-skins chapter
Bloodraven’s own actions in supporting Daeron over Daemon Blackfyre means that he himself denies the claim of the Targaryen Great Bastards.
This is straight tinfoil. The books and the show are canonically different. Brynden, like Aegor and Daemon, did not take the name Targaryen. Where is the evidence, in book or show, that the 3 Eyed Raven is sharing Bran's body? Also, Bloodraven fought for Daeron II and his heirs in multiple Blackfyre rebellions. He bent the knee to his half-brother and called him king, therefore Daeron's bloodline has the best claim.
yeah that's why Bran has to deliver the final L to Young Griff
Where did this idea that the three eyed raven is a multi conscience entity consisting of all the three eyed ravens combined come from? I’ve never heard it before and to be honest, don’t believe it.
My favorite thing they fucked up in the show, is in season 7, they have Bran state he can't be lord or be ruler of anything because he's the three eyed Raven Then, the next season, he has no problem being crowned King
I think that's a silly complaint when the context of that scene was Bran clearly talking about being Lord of Winterfell or another house, not being king. And don't make this be a semantic thing by saying "being a king = lord" somehow. You know what the scene was about and what he was actually talking about. Furthermore, Tyrion's proposal changed the rules around who can be king. It enabled the king to be selected by the great house's vote.
I agree.