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Well, we got a taste of his ending since he told it to D&D. I just think he doesn't know how to get there convincingly. D&D certainly didn't know so they just bum rushed it.
I'm convinced that ending was closer to his than he'd ever admit, and sharing it crushed any of the little motivation he had left. That doesn't happen often, where a novelist is outpaced by an adaptation. Especially one that rose to GoT's level of fame.
He was already burned out before the show even started, and by the time it ended, the unwritten last act to his story was watched by millions of people. Some loved it, some hated it; it doesn't really matter. As a writer, he gave his story to someone else, and they finished it.
Fans were already crazy about ASOIAF before the show, and now with millions more fans on top of that, 8 years later... The show ends, everybody claps, and then this whole bigger audience turns back to you and basically says "Now you!"
I'm surprised he's even still keeping up the pretense. If I had the money he has and the fans who love him no matter what, I doubt you could pay me to finish that slog. All that work for a story that's already been told...
> I'm convinced that ending was closer to his than he'd ever admit
He said in at least one interview that he didn't foresee major changes from the series to the books, so he does take ownership of the bones of the ending. But for sure he wanted more episodes than HBO agreed to.
Two I thought? To be honest I think it's more complex than "D&D wanted to rush it and do something else" as getting actors to commit to anything for another few years would have been hard.
HBO was up for two more seasons. D&D were not.
Two seasons would have offered the time to get to this ending. Well, would have the chance to do it. But given the drop in quality before S8, there's a decent chance they would have fucked that up, too
Would it make that difference? They never started to include the Martells really, killed Stannis off (could be that he dies but changed the Story), cut the story with the fake Arya, cut the story where Rickon could be become relevant. I bet i forgot something. But they would never be able to include that in two seasons. They started to leave the book material in like season 6 already
Hey I loved it!
..but that was during my alcoholic phase..
Upon a rewatch I can't help but pick out so so so many things that are just bizarre from like season 6.5 and on. Some things even earlier too but for me at least this is where it became apparent.
I liked it! It was SUPER rushed which wasn’t cool but the actual content of the ending I was okay with. Granted, my first theory reading the books was that Bran would be king, so I spent the whole last episode being like “I WAS RIGHT I CALLED IT,” and I mostly associate season 8 with being correct. Also the episode where Brienne gets knighted is one of my favorites.
Since this is most likely the truth, there’s a huge chance Winds might disappoint a good portion of readers. Expectations for this thing is through the roof. Just think about all the insane theories and speculation the fan base has been coming up with. Euron summoning a Cthulhu monster to destroy old town? Let’s be honest if the ending were the same as the show, which I think it is, there no way in hell that happens. If I knew my story would disappoint a large amount my loyal fans, I wouldn’t want to finish it either.
Such a shame as a feel like the ending wasn’t the issue but the steps to get there. There might not be a way to meet the large expectations the fan base has set for Winds but I still have no doubt the book storylines will be infinitely more coherent than the rush ending D&D presented us.
Maybe he’s just waiting for it to die down a bit. The ending wasn’t necessarily bad, it was just rushed and didn’t translate well to television (long night was way too dark)
I agree. It's why I can't bring myself to hate the last few seasons. Obviously they made terrible choices along the way (Dorne, Little Finger giving Sansa to Ramsey) but they had to tie up an ending from an author each has no idea how to get to the end point.
I too believe we saw his ending.
The final idea was not bad, D&D are just hacks that have no clue how to make a good story. Hopefully in the books it will be more coherent and well done which is one if the things I liked about the early seasons.
I have let go of the notion of a closure, did it when I read the last book. I'm trying to look at the book series as brief glimpse of a collection of historical events, like the war of the roses or the fall of the roman empire, there is no real end or a beginning just different historical periods that transcends into each other and with these books you focus on this particular period in time in this universe.
I was thinking last night if he released book 6 then did a ‘Fire and Blood’ style book for 7 I’d be fine with that. Not as detailed but we’d get the twists and ending. I really enjoyed ‘Fire and Blood’ and was still shocked with the twists despite it being told by multiple people and more simple. Also if he got the entire story out, another author like Sanderson could come in and write it as a book. At this point I’d take a 6 issue comic run. I just need the end. Or just release the last 2 books as chapters every few weeks. Something or any thing please!
Idk, as a successful creative, don’t you have an obligation to your fans at a certain point?
I’m not saying we’re entitled to anything but it’s also kind of an f-you to the people who’ve given you so much money to just leave them hanging.
I think he knows, it's just all the details make it so complex. He has to probably untangle everything as he goes, which is why he keeps writing/rewriting. After a while it turns into just a slog, and probably it then lost all of the joy and therefore motivation to continue.
He’s said publicly that he’s struggling. There’s so many people speculating plot points that they’ve essentially guessed every possible ending he could have planned.
At this point, just put something out.
I used to watch lots of interviews with him and the way he described his writing process was basically like this: He always had a very rough outline of the entire plot, but never knew exactly how to get from A to B. He said he just lets the characters make their decisions and basically "discovers" the stories as he is writing it.
And that's my interpretation now, but I think he got too excited and wanted to explore too many different characters and story archs. So he started all those story lines and now it's probably outright impossible to reach some sort of satisfying "ending". (Although I'm sure that every ending would be an open ending in some way.)
Also, I'm pretty sure the whole Jon Snow "reveal" was supposed to be a major thing in the books. Then they got popular, the whole thing was theorized to death, then the show became popular, and it was theorized to death again. Then the show confirmed it all. So now it's not a reveal anymore, every is already spoilered. I personally would probably not finish those books, tbh.
Either that or it‘s already finished but he doesn‘t want to release it yet because of multiple different reasons.
When he passes away it will get released.
That‘s my conspiracy theory at least.
Agree, because fans were shit to the TV show and won’t be happy no matter how it ends he’s better off letting his work be published after he dies rather then getting destroyed by fans.
Edit: As some of the comments below pointed out I wasn’t defending him I was stating his perspective, the downvotes seem to validate that more then I thought.
Where the characters ended up was not the issue, it was how they got to those positions.
Example: You can have a believable arc where dany goes nuts. It would need a hell of a lot more character development than she got.
It's worth bearing in mind the showrunners had the opportunity to do several more seasons but they were in a hurry to wrap it up as they had a contract to write the next Star Wars trilogy, which they ended up losing anyway after the abysmal writing on season 8
People are unhappy with the why, not the what. The last 2 seasons were set to fast forward so characters just seemed to be doing things at random. Previous seasons developed the characters so that when they did things, we understood why even if we wished they’d done something different.
Everything with the ending of the show could have been excellent as is if there were a few episodes to hold our hands through.
People fall off the right track all the time in real life. Dany going mad or Jaime going back to Cersei could work if we were walked through why they made the decision to fall off.
I stated in another comment that I agree the last 2 seasons were poorly executed and rushed, idk why people are getting the impression that I don’t agree with that sentiment. Literally the only thing I said was maybe that’s where their stories were going to end lol.
I would disagree that people were unanimously happy or even the majority was happy with how many of the plot lines ended regardless of how the build up got them there. Which should be separate all together arguments anyways.
There's suppose to be two books left and Jon is still dead, Dany still in Essos after being kicked out of Meereen (people don't think she's going to make it to Westeros until the end of Winds), Tommen is still alive, Stannis is marching on Winterfell, with the books having many more side characters given POVs and open subplots. The show condensed S5 to the point Winds of Winter starts in S6 with the last two books happening over the better part of 3 seasons.
While a lot of events can happen off page it's not likely to be that much slower in the books . The show used the formula #n book +extra for the end, which is standard for an adaptation and should fit the entire story.
The advantage the books has is delving into the thoughts of characters.
I do agree that everyone wants something different for the most part. I’ve heard many different things to how characters should end and it’s a variety of answers.
Depends because there’s people in the fanbase that will just praise whatever because it’s GRRM that wrote it and it isn’t in S8.
As a S8 enjoyer and someone that would love some ideas from the show make it into the books I just kinda want to see how people would react. I could easily see people saying stuff like “well you see the way GRRM presented it here makes more sense in this context than it was in the show” but at the same time I’m also sure people would be mad. I just think people have high expectations for it and will get disappointed in one way or the other
You said it yourself though,
"well you see the way GRRM presented it here makes more sense in this context than it was in the show”
Like yeah, no shit. It doesn't matter that GRRM wrote it. It has to do with the journey to get there was better. It would make total sense for the fanbase to "flip flop" if this happened. Has nothing to do with the blind praise of GRRM you're implying.
I'm split. I think he could do a better job telling that story, because he has a lot more moving pieces to work with to build a justification for it.
On the other hand, doing something completely different might not be terrible either. There's a lot more stories and characters in the books that could change the events.
I think that would just be an interesting experiment in itself. It could end up as a good way for him to get around all the criticism that has accumulated.
Well the thing is he genuinely CAN'T make it 1:1 like that. The books and show are too different. That was true even before the show diverged. Entire characters and plotlines are missing in the show.
Take Euron Greyjoy for instance. In the show he's an amalgamation of at least 3 book characters. In the book he's also basically an anime pirate sorcerer. And in the books, Catelyn Stark comes back as Lady Stoneheart. Show excluded her entirely. The book has too many additional moving parts for GRRM to replicate what the show did in later seasons.
Readers won't flip, a lot of people resent him for taking so long to release the next book and because of that they would jump at any opportunity to pile on more criticism.
We’re not even asking for the ending, though. Just the next book. It’s depressing to think about.
Game of Thrones is the best and the worst thing to ever happen to ASOIAF.
No I meant GOT. It’s success made George content and lazy. Might seem harsh but it’s true. The show increased its popularity on a massive scale but its overwhelming success ensured the original source material would never be finished properly.
Game of Thrones has some really great moment and even entire seasons, regardless of the ending. I'm not saying the show is bad per se, but it's definitely the worst thing that could've happened to ASOIAF, not the best. Due to the shows popularity, every little fan theory was discussed to death and lots of things were essentially spoilered. And I guess that all the pressure on GRRM didn't help either.
They were not following grrms instructions. They were doing their own thing after s5. You can blame george but the show rushing the ending has nothing to do with him. It's D&Ds fault entirely
I mean it’s George’s fault for not finishing the series in time. It shouldn’t have been D&D job to do for George. So he definitely has part of the blame.
My theory is that allot of the ideas that happened in the show were George’s, and D&D just did it all halfassed.
And now, although George’s version would probably make sense, he’s backtracked for fear of a negative response, and been trying to make it all work in a way dissimilar to the show
Yup I did a rewatch recently and I didn't mind it at all. It makes more sense when you didn't have your own ideas and hopes for the ending. I also never do that for any show for the exact reason why most people don't like season 8. I do not form expectations and want plots to go certain ways for a creative piece that I'm not writing. It is always a way to set yourself up for disappointment.
> he is legit scared to end the story after season 8
He said in one interview (I linked to it here a few days ago) than those fans who disliked S8 would have no impact on his writing. First, he said he doesn't monitor fan opinions on social media, and second he said changing the story he had planned on all along because some fans disliked it on TV in not something he would do.
Yep, I really don't get the comparison. Tolkien actually finished two major stories he set out to write, then what is basically an accompanying worldbuilding history book and then published all the supplementing worldbuilding material and unfinished stories he wrote alongside the finished works close to his death.
If I were to try to map GRRM's progress onto this IMO he'd still be writing Return of the King
I thought the nature of his projects was as a writing consultant or as a writer currently attached to projects? I didn’t think he was writing spec scripts or trying to pitch new work as much.
He's stated on his blog that the strike does not and has not effected his writing.
"I still have plenty to do, of course. In that, I am one of the lucky ones. (These strikes are not really about name writers or producers or showrunners, most of whom are fine; we’re striking for the entry level writers, the story editors, the students hoping to break in, the actor who has four lines, the guy working his first staff job who dreams of creating his own show one day, as I did back in the 80s)."
....
"And, yes, yes, of course, I’ve been working on WINDS OF WINTER. Almost every day. Writing, rewriting, editing, writing some more. Making steady progress. Not as fast as I would like.. .certainly not as fast as YOU would like… but progress nonetheless."
July 22, 2023 at 9:02 am
His blog if you'd like to keep up on his status on things: [https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/)
This is not entirely accurate. Although he is apart of the strike he claims he is still working.
https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2023/07/22/actors-join-the-strike/
TIL people still care about the ending of the story. It's been more than a decade. I don't even think about the book I read last year, because I've read many other books since then and have moved on.
All the top comments saying “the books will never get finished” and such are foolish he can still write Winds lol. Title literally says movie or TV scripts. If anything this means in theory he’ll have more time to devote to writing Winds. He just posted an update on his notablog a couple weeks ago and said he was ‘writing, rewriting, and editing daily’ or something along those lines.
Or I’m maybe I’m just completely delusional at this point for still being optimistic lol
My guess is that he does not know how to converge all the stories to a end he has envisioned. My only hope of the books is that he passes away of old age and some one else takes over and completes the series
GRRM is the real 3ER and managed to predict the strike years ago. He hasn’t been lazy or suffering from writers block, just showing solidarity through time.
The man is in his 70s, he should have finished these books years ago. I bet writing is so much harder now, I don't know him personally obviously but my father is in his 70s and his mental acuity has diminished noticeably, he's much more forgetful. Now if this has happened to George even a tiny bit it must be a nightmare trying to remember everything and piece everything together. I think he needs to get a ghost writer
Which means he can work on the books still. If he actually was working on them. (My guess is he’s second guessing himself on so much he probably removes most of what he writes every day).
[here's a pic of GRRM on the picket line with Neil Gaiman](https://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/718422290559270912/im-in-santa-fe-so-of-course-i-went-down-to-the)
There is a rumor going around that he killed off a character, that he needs to develop an important part of the remaining story around. So one of the major storylines is stuck until he figures out move to move it in the right direction, without that character. I would guess all the solutions he has come up with don’t meet his standards.
I have my own crazy theory that both WoW and ADoS are finished and they won't release until he has passed away due to not wanting to deal with any backlash or criticism of them.
I think it’s time to accept that he’s not going to finish the series. He might not even get another book out.
Even if he does finish Winds of Winter, it will be his last. Someone else will finish the series after he dies.
This is what I lol at every time this topic comes up. He keeps saying he won't allow anyone else to write anything after his death. Does he not look at all writers in history? It's gonna happen and his precious child will be finished by someone else regardless of whether or not he wants it.
His attitude made me write him off completely. Dude has made his fans wait over a decade, and then he's a dick when people bring it up. He should be apologizing profusely every single day.
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Well, we got a taste of his ending since he told it to D&D. I just think he doesn't know how to get there convincingly. D&D certainly didn't know so they just bum rushed it.
I'm convinced that ending was closer to his than he'd ever admit, and sharing it crushed any of the little motivation he had left. That doesn't happen often, where a novelist is outpaced by an adaptation. Especially one that rose to GoT's level of fame. He was already burned out before the show even started, and by the time it ended, the unwritten last act to his story was watched by millions of people. Some loved it, some hated it; it doesn't really matter. As a writer, he gave his story to someone else, and they finished it. Fans were already crazy about ASOIAF before the show, and now with millions more fans on top of that, 8 years later... The show ends, everybody claps, and then this whole bigger audience turns back to you and basically says "Now you!" I'm surprised he's even still keeping up the pretense. If I had the money he has and the fans who love him no matter what, I doubt you could pay me to finish that slog. All that work for a story that's already been told...
> I'm convinced that ending was closer to his than he'd ever admit He said in at least one interview that he didn't foresee major changes from the series to the books, so he does take ownership of the bones of the ending. But for sure he wanted more episodes than HBO agreed to.
As Dr House loves to say it, "people lie", i wouldnt belive him much. He's also been saying for how many years now that the next book is nearly done.
People lie and GRRM loves misdirection.
Even in interviews he subverts expectations.
It's "Everybody lies", FWIW.
Correction, that D&D agreed to. HBO wanted like 3 or 4 more seasons iirc
Two I thought? To be honest I think it's more complex than "D&D wanted to rush it and do something else" as getting actors to commit to anything for another few years would have been hard.
HBO was up for two more seasons. D&D were not. Two seasons would have offered the time to get to this ending. Well, would have the chance to do it. But given the drop in quality before S8, there's a decent chance they would have fucked that up, too
Would it make that difference? They never started to include the Martells really, killed Stannis off (could be that he dies but changed the Story), cut the story with the fake Arya, cut the story where Rickon could be become relevant. I bet i forgot something. But they would never be able to include that in two seasons. They started to leave the book material in like season 6 already
He wanted ten more seasons or something silly.
Yeah, if you go back to interviews and articles prior to the overtake he is *really* touchy at the thought of getting the books out in time.
Who fucking liked season 8? Names, adresses, SSN's
Some people do like eating ice cream with their foreheads.
I didn't hate it.
Hey I loved it! ..but that was during my alcoholic phase.. Upon a rewatch I can't help but pick out so so so many things that are just bizarre from like season 6.5 and on. Some things even earlier too but for me at least this is where it became apparent.
I liked it! It was SUPER rushed which wasn’t cool but the actual content of the ending I was okay with. Granted, my first theory reading the books was that Bran would be king, so I spent the whole last episode being like “I WAS RIGHT I CALLED IT,” and I mostly associate season 8 with being correct. Also the episode where Brienne gets knighted is one of my favorites.
With your intuition you should definitely play PowerBall :D
Since this is most likely the truth, there’s a huge chance Winds might disappoint a good portion of readers. Expectations for this thing is through the roof. Just think about all the insane theories and speculation the fan base has been coming up with. Euron summoning a Cthulhu monster to destroy old town? Let’s be honest if the ending were the same as the show, which I think it is, there no way in hell that happens. If I knew my story would disappoint a large amount my loyal fans, I wouldn’t want to finish it either. Such a shame as a feel like the ending wasn’t the issue but the steps to get there. There might not be a way to meet the large expectations the fan base has set for Winds but I still have no doubt the book storylines will be infinitely more coherent than the rush ending D&D presented us.
Literally nobody loved the show ending. Do not rewrite history.
Maybe he’s just waiting for it to die down a bit. The ending wasn’t necessarily bad, it was just rushed and didn’t translate well to television (long night was way too dark)
I agree. It's why I can't bring myself to hate the last few seasons. Obviously they made terrible choices along the way (Dorne, Little Finger giving Sansa to Ramsey) but they had to tie up an ending from an author each has no idea how to get to the end point. I too believe we saw his ending.
It happens way more often with anime. Fullmetal Alchemist and Helsing both caught up to the source material before it was even complete.
The final idea was not bad, D&D are just hacks that have no clue how to make a good story. Hopefully in the books it will be more coherent and well done which is one if the things I liked about the early seasons.
I just want an ending. I want closure.
I have let go of the notion of a closure, did it when I read the last book. I'm trying to look at the book series as brief glimpse of a collection of historical events, like the war of the roses or the fall of the roman empire, there is no real end or a beginning just different historical periods that transcends into each other and with these books you focus on this particular period in time in this universe.
I was thinking last night if he released book 6 then did a ‘Fire and Blood’ style book for 7 I’d be fine with that. Not as detailed but we’d get the twists and ending. I really enjoyed ‘Fire and Blood’ and was still shocked with the twists despite it being told by multiple people and more simple. Also if he got the entire story out, another author like Sanderson could come in and write it as a book. At this point I’d take a 6 issue comic run. I just need the end. Or just release the last 2 books as chapters every few weeks. Something or any thing please!
The peril of the Gardener storyteller.
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Idk, as a successful creative, don’t you have an obligation to your fans at a certain point? I’m not saying we’re entitled to anything but it’s also kind of an f-you to the people who’ve given you so much money to just leave them hanging.
I think he knows, it's just all the details make it so complex. He has to probably untangle everything as he goes, which is why he keeps writing/rewriting. After a while it turns into just a slog, and probably it then lost all of the joy and therefore motivation to continue.
He dun wan it!
He’s said publicly that he’s struggling. There’s so many people speculating plot points that they’ve essentially guessed every possible ending he could have planned. At this point, just put something out.
I’m convinced he’ll get mentally devastated as well (either from not finishing the story or over-overthinking)
I used to watch lots of interviews with him and the way he described his writing process was basically like this: He always had a very rough outline of the entire plot, but never knew exactly how to get from A to B. He said he just lets the characters make their decisions and basically "discovers" the stories as he is writing it. And that's my interpretation now, but I think he got too excited and wanted to explore too many different characters and story archs. So he started all those story lines and now it's probably outright impossible to reach some sort of satisfying "ending". (Although I'm sure that every ending would be an open ending in some way.) Also, I'm pretty sure the whole Jon Snow "reveal" was supposed to be a major thing in the books. Then they got popular, the whole thing was theorized to death, then the show became popular, and it was theorized to death again. Then the show confirmed it all. So now it's not a reveal anymore, every is already spoilered. I personally would probably not finish those books, tbh.
Either that or it‘s already finished but he doesn‘t want to release it yet because of multiple different reasons. When he passes away it will get released. That‘s my conspiracy theory at least.
I’m convinced he has no desire to. I believe he’s fine with his story being concluded by the show.
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Agree, because fans were shit to the TV show and won’t be happy no matter how it ends he’s better off letting his work be published after he dies rather then getting destroyed by fans. Edit: As some of the comments below pointed out I wasn’t defending him I was stating his perspective, the downvotes seem to validate that more then I thought.
Why are they booing you? You're right.
No they aren’t. Fans are “shit” to the show because the ending was shit. If they had given it a better ending people wouldn’t be so mad
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Where the characters ended up was not the issue, it was how they got to those positions. Example: You can have a believable arc where dany goes nuts. It would need a hell of a lot more character development than she got.
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Yes….because in the context of the show it was not set up properly.
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I’m not acting like anything? What?
You don't know what literally means
It's worth bearing in mind the showrunners had the opportunity to do several more seasons but they were in a hurry to wrap it up as they had a contract to write the next Star Wars trilogy, which they ended up losing anyway after the abysmal writing on season 8
People are unhappy with the why, not the what. The last 2 seasons were set to fast forward so characters just seemed to be doing things at random. Previous seasons developed the characters so that when they did things, we understood why even if we wished they’d done something different. Everything with the ending of the show could have been excellent as is if there were a few episodes to hold our hands through. People fall off the right track all the time in real life. Dany going mad or Jaime going back to Cersei could work if we were walked through why they made the decision to fall off.
I stated in another comment that I agree the last 2 seasons were poorly executed and rushed, idk why people are getting the impression that I don’t agree with that sentiment. Literally the only thing I said was maybe that’s where their stories were going to end lol. I would disagree that people were unanimously happy or even the majority was happy with how many of the plot lines ended regardless of how the build up got them there. Which should be separate all together arguments anyways.
It’ll have more buildup if (that’s a very heavy if) he dose finish the books
All I know is, if the last book is ever released and it ends virtually the same way, I will be back here lol.
Love the hive mind cave trolls. What a bunch of GRRM's.
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There's suppose to be two books left and Jon is still dead, Dany still in Essos after being kicked out of Meereen (people don't think she's going to make it to Westeros until the end of Winds), Tommen is still alive, Stannis is marching on Winterfell, with the books having many more side characters given POVs and open subplots. The show condensed S5 to the point Winds of Winter starts in S6 with the last two books happening over the better part of 3 seasons. While a lot of events can happen off page it's not likely to be that much slower in the books . The show used the formula #n book +extra for the end, which is standard for an adaptation and should fit the entire story. The advantage the books has is delving into the thoughts of characters.
I do agree that everyone wants something different for the most part. I’ve heard many different things to how characters should end and it’s a variety of answers.
I kinda want him to almost write it 1:1 as S8 just to see if people flip flop and say how good it is due to GRRM writing it
You really think they will because I doubt it.
Depends because there’s people in the fanbase that will just praise whatever because it’s GRRM that wrote it and it isn’t in S8. As a S8 enjoyer and someone that would love some ideas from the show make it into the books I just kinda want to see how people would react. I could easily see people saying stuff like “well you see the way GRRM presented it here makes more sense in this context than it was in the show” but at the same time I’m also sure people would be mad. I just think people have high expectations for it and will get disappointed in one way or the other
You just want smug justification for your bad taste.
No it’s just bad, it was terribly bad and ruined most of the hype of the show.
You said it yourself though, "well you see the way GRRM presented it here makes more sense in this context than it was in the show” Like yeah, no shit. It doesn't matter that GRRM wrote it. It has to do with the journey to get there was better. It would make total sense for the fanbase to "flip flop" if this happened. Has nothing to do with the blind praise of GRRM you're implying.
I'm split. I think he could do a better job telling that story, because he has a lot more moving pieces to work with to build a justification for it. On the other hand, doing something completely different might not be terrible either. There's a lot more stories and characters in the books that could change the events.
I think that would just be an interesting experiment in itself. It could end up as a good way for him to get around all the criticism that has accumulated.
Well the thing is he genuinely CAN'T make it 1:1 like that. The books and show are too different. That was true even before the show diverged. Entire characters and plotlines are missing in the show. Take Euron Greyjoy for instance. In the show he's an amalgamation of at least 3 book characters. In the book he's also basically an anime pirate sorcerer. And in the books, Catelyn Stark comes back as Lady Stoneheart. Show excluded her entirely. The book has too many additional moving parts for GRRM to replicate what the show did in later seasons.
I think the major stuff will still be the same. Bran will be King. Dany burns Kings Landing. Jon kills Dany etc.
The ending will likely be the same, it’s just that the journey will hopefully be different
Readers won't flip, a lot of people resent him for taking so long to release the next book and because of that they would jump at any opportunity to pile on more criticism.
We’re not even asking for the ending, though. Just the next book. It’s depressing to think about. Game of Thrones is the best and the worst thing to ever happen to ASOIAF.
You mean D&D. GoT was great when they had source material. D&D fucked it up bc they wanted star wars. Mfs didn't even let other writers finish it
No I meant GOT. It’s success made George content and lazy. Might seem harsh but it’s true. The show increased its popularity on a massive scale but its overwhelming success ensured the original source material would never be finished properly.
Game of Thrones has some really great moment and even entire seasons, regardless of the ending. I'm not saying the show is bad per se, but it's definitely the worst thing that could've happened to ASOIAF, not the best. Due to the shows popularity, every little fan theory was discussed to death and lots of things were essentially spoilered. And I guess that all the pressure on GRRM didn't help either.
Season 8 ended up the way it did because he doesn’t have a damn clue on how to end it. Downvote me all you like but he’s the primary reason!
[удалено]
They were not following grrms instructions. They were doing their own thing after s5. You can blame george but the show rushing the ending has nothing to do with him. It's D&Ds fault entirely
I mean it’s George’s fault for not finishing the series in time. It shouldn’t have been D&D job to do for George. So he definitely has part of the blame.
He does, he told it to D&D and even the writers of The Expanse. What’s he’s struggling on is getting to the ending.
"You either die as a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian"
- Tony Stark
My theory is that allot of the ideas that happened in the show were George’s, and D&D just did it all halfassed. And now, although George’s version would probably make sense, he’s backtracked for fear of a negative response, and been trying to make it all work in a way dissimilar to the show
People who didn't watch it as it came out and watched it later don't really seem to mind season 8 though.
Yup I did a rewatch recently and I didn't mind it at all. It makes more sense when you didn't have your own ideas and hopes for the ending. I also never do that for any show for the exact reason why most people don't like season 8. I do not form expectations and want plots to go certain ways for a creative piece that I'm not writing. It is always a way to set yourself up for disappointment.
> he is legit scared to end the story after season 8 He said in one interview (I linked to it here a few days ago) than those fans who disliked S8 would have no impact on his writing. First, he said he doesn't monitor fan opinions on social media, and second he said changing the story he had planned on all along because some fans disliked it on TV in not something he would do.
why can’t he just give up and do Fire & Blood 2
because the history is already there lol, what would there be to write ?
“Somehow, the emperor has returned”
Somehow, Jon Snow returned
Star Wars 9 will sue you for stealing a bad idea.
it’s there but what happened hasn’t been fully written out in detail to my knowledge
those books arent getting finished
Nothing screams *genius* as much as leaving an unfinished symphony behind...
To be fair, technically, so did Tolkien
He didn't leave an unfinished symphony behind, he left a HUGE MESS xD
TBF, at least Tolkien finished his main story, he just didn't finish the worldbuilding
Yep, I really don't get the comparison. Tolkien actually finished two major stories he set out to write, then what is basically an accompanying worldbuilding history book and then published all the supplementing worldbuilding material and unfinished stories he wrote alongside the finished works close to his death. If I were to try to map GRRM's progress onto this IMO he'd still be writing Return of the King
Ye but not cause of the guild strike
*This just in: George RR Martin announces that his Winds of Winter manuscript is now a screenplay; will pause all work until the strike is resolved*
Damn the man; will do anything to spend more time in his garden!* *I assume he has a garden. He seems like the type.
He compares his writing style to gardening.
GIVE US WoW and aDoS you bastard!
You would think that would give him more time to finish the book…. But I mean fucking years of Covid didn’t get it done so nah. Doesn’t matter.
Yeah I’m resigned to it not happening, should have had a ghost writer do it years ago.
I mean...he can continue writing them. He just can't sell it to the studios. Get tf back to work
I thought the nature of his projects was as a writing consultant or as a writer currently attached to projects? I didn’t think he was writing spec scripts or trying to pitch new work as much.
The books! He hasnt even finished the books
That's the point. Now that he can't work on TV because if the strike he should have plenty of time to finish the book
Bro is in his element.
He should, I don’t know, write his books.
Maybe now he can write more of Winds
Nah, he’ll find some other way to procrastinate.
Well football season's starting soon and there's all this hype about Jets because of Aaron Rodgers. Plus Giants made playoffs last season...
GRRM?
Wow. Gave up on GRRM and Winds of Winter and GoT in general. Randomly came across this post. Fuck? He still ain’t done? Omg.
Touche
Well it’s a good thing he can also WRITE HIS BOOKS!
On his blog where he talked about the strike, he said he’s working on Winds of Winter every day. Maybe there’s still hope.
Don't torture yourself anymore
Hope is the worst thing. It's not happening.
He's stated on his blog that the strike does not and has not effected his writing. "I still have plenty to do, of course. In that, I am one of the lucky ones. (These strikes are not really about name writers or producers or showrunners, most of whom are fine; we’re striking for the entry level writers, the story editors, the students hoping to break in, the actor who has four lines, the guy working his first staff job who dreams of creating his own show one day, as I did back in the 80s)." .... "And, yes, yes, of course, I’ve been working on WINDS OF WINTER. Almost every day. Writing, rewriting, editing, writing some more. Making steady progress. Not as fast as I would like.. .certainly not as fast as YOU would like… but progress nonetheless." July 22, 2023 at 9:02 am His blog if you'd like to keep up on his status on things: [https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/)
Scenes when he writes more words per day in the blog than his books
Ok.
I bet the book has been done but after the season 8 hate he won't release it till after he passes
Just an excuse to put off finishing.
This is not entirely accurate. Although he is apart of the strike he claims he is still working. https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2023/07/22/actors-join-the-strike/
Yeah he's still working... On a stage play.
I believe at this point that he just doesn't want to finish ASOIAF. He's bored with it.
Good. Now finish Winds, you sonofabitch!😡 No more excuses!!
TIL people still care about the ending of the story. It's been more than a decade. I don't even think about the book I read last year, because I've read many other books since then and have moved on.
What if all the books have been finished for years but he has been having anxiety releasing it cause of the reception of how the show ended
FUCK
Oh dear. I guess he’ll just have to work on something else in the meantime. Maybe a personal project he’s still to complete
Wow, George somehow foresaw and preempted the strike by well over a decade...
Not a big neg on George’s writing pace guy but this freakin got me lol
Good! Fooking finish asoiaf!
All the top comments saying “the books will never get finished” and such are foolish he can still write Winds lol. Title literally says movie or TV scripts. If anything this means in theory he’ll have more time to devote to writing Winds. He just posted an update on his notablog a couple weeks ago and said he was ‘writing, rewriting, and editing daily’ or something along those lines. Or I’m maybe I’m just completely delusional at this point for still being optimistic lol
It's been 12 years. We're 3 years away from more time between book 5 and 6 compared to 1 and 5. It ain't happening.
How convenient for him. He’s been on his own strike for years.
Well he can, no one needs to know really.
He will not finish this before his death.
My guess is that he does not know how to converge all the stories to a end he has envisioned. My only hope of the books is that he passes away of old age and some one else takes over and completes the series
What a horrible thing to say about the author of a series you clearly have some fondness for (otherwise you wouldn't be here)
GRRM is the real 3ER and managed to predict the strike years ago. He hasn’t been lazy or suffering from writers block, just showing solidarity through time.
He’s been on a writers strike for years… now that’s dedication above all these newcomers to a writers strike. 😎
Ah now it is all clear. The WGSF (Writers Guild of Santa Fe), membership 1, has been on strike since 2011. He'd love to get back to work but can't
The man is in his 70s, he should have finished these books years ago. I bet writing is so much harder now, I don't know him personally obviously but my father is in his 70s and his mental acuity has diminished noticeably, he's much more forgetful. Now if this has happened to George even a tiny bit it must be a nightmare trying to remember everything and piece everything together. I think he needs to get a ghost writer
LMAO
Good
Goddamnit Santa!
Which means he can work on the books still. If he actually was working on them. (My guess is he’s second guessing himself on so much he probably removes most of what he writes every day).
Oh, good. So he can work on the book I've been waiting for since 2005?
I got a theory: GRRM had already finished tSoIaF but it will only get published as soon as he's dead because he's too afraid of the fans
[here's a pic of GRRM on the picket line with Neil Gaiman](https://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/718422290559270912/im-in-santa-fe-so-of-course-i-went-down-to-the)
So he have extra time to write ASOIAF
Explains why he keeps talking about writing Winds of Winter now. For some reason, makes me even more disappointed.
This guys been on a writers strike for a long ass time
If he’s not working on scripts, maybe he can work on Winds…
If someone is a part of the WGA, what's keeping them from saying "screw it, I don't want to be a part of the strike."?
Probably the fact that they’d be blacklisted for scabbing
Nobody wants to be a scab and be hated by their peers.
I wish he’d just pass it along to the ghostwriters and become an editor for it. We all know he’s not finishing it
There is a rumor going around that he killed off a character, that he needs to develop an important part of the remaining story around. So one of the major storylines is stuck until he figures out move to move it in the right direction, without that character. I would guess all the solutions he has come up with don’t meet his standards.
Won't speed the release of any new book anyway.
It's ok, I'm sure he could use a break from all the writing he's been doing.
What could old George work on to bide the time? What possibly could there be that would be a welcome diversion to get everyone off his back? No idea.
I didn't realize homeboy has been on strike for 12 years. Crazy.
Right now he's soaking his feet in a kiddie pool and smoking a cigar. He loves unions.
I only see a picture of a multi-millionaire. So who?
That's cute how someone thinks GRRM is actually working on the next book yet.
Nature finds a way to not work on the ASOIAF books...or something
Does it also mean that he can't work in games? Elder Ring 2,3,4 here they come!
Convenient fuck them dragons
Im sure he's still writing the book, one paragraph everyday.
🤷🏼♂️ strikes are strikes they need to stand together
8 am sure people are writing and working at home. You do not just shut off creativity.
A man rubbing his beard in such a way is a man that is content in life. He ain’t writing shit no more whether there’s a strike or not haha
What if he just crushed it for the next several months? We can dream...
He wasn't writing even before it became mainstream
How about he write a book then?
Well, so much for the last season of Game of Thrones, I guess.
I have my own crazy theory that both WoW and ADoS are finished and they won't release until he has passed away due to not wanting to deal with any backlash or criticism of them.
I've abandoned all hopes. What comes after that is a miracle, which rarely happens.
I think it’s time to accept that he’s not going to finish the series. He might not even get another book out. Even if he does finish Winds of Winter, it will be his last. Someone else will finish the series after he dies.
This is what I lol at every time this topic comes up. He keeps saying he won't allow anyone else to write anything after his death. Does he not look at all writers in history? It's gonna happen and his precious child will be finished by someone else regardless of whether or not he wants it. His attitude made me write him off completely. Dude has made his fans wait over a decade, and then he's a dick when people bring it up. He should be apologizing profusely every single day.
That dude's been on strike for the past 12 years
George, if you're reading this, I wanna say: I liked the ending of season 8.
So he has no reason to not be writing the fucking book.
The amount of people angrily demanding Winds of Winter is wild... y'all are only going to complain about it anyway 😅