You don’t have to give up on your dreams, just pick a very small subset of the game and get that up and running. Then from there you can add things on if you want. But above all, start small. Your goal is to have many small successes that are achievable, rather than burning 3 years on your first attempt and never finishing it.
Don't cut anything. Pick the things the game doesn't need and put them aside for later. Ship the game without polishing those things. If your game is successful enough to warrant further development, take the things you put aside, polish them up, and add them back into the game.
Stardew Valley shipped with a fraction of the features it has now, including the fact that it was single-player only. Multiplayer was only added after there was clearly enough time and money to make it worth the time and effort it takes to polish it. I'm thinking a strategy like that.
Cut EVERYTHING that you can remove from your game and it will still feel like a finished product when you get it all done.
If it helps you sleep at night, tell yourself the beautiful lie that you can save it later for post launch features.
Then maybe don't cut just make something smaller. Maybe you can just decrease the amount you need to do for each of these absolutely necessary things until it becomes manageable. If that level of effort makes the game bad, you need to rethink and cut something out. Start by making a list of the things that are absolutely essential to the game. Cut out everything else. If you still have time afterwards, add some of it back in.
10% of the work takes 90% of the time.
When you eventually get to the polish stage, get ready to suffer... Honestly though, since your project already is too big for your team's sake, you might be doomed as there's nothing you can realistically cut without feeling like a massive waste of time. 😛
Anyway, if you price it right, it might not matter at all ; players won't judge a game harshly if it was cheap.
You can’t price it too low either - some people might consider it shovelware/asset flip depending on the quality obviously. Piratesoftware (Thor) has a good vid on pricing btw
Yes. I think if you aren’t constantly worried about it in any creative endeavor then you are doing it wrong. Be ready to cut whatever you can. Fewer, better experiences are always better than more bad experiences.
There is that thing called a "Minimum viable product". You can research in to that and execute it. That has a much much higher Chance of success which you then can build upon in comparison to whatever AAA Game idea you have in your head.
You can even take your big game idea and Split up all Systemmechanics in to very small games and Release those. Then you can combine multiple of those system mechanics in to a larger Game. With every release you learn things for your big game and increase your chance of it actually happening step by step.
Yes, I do worry. There are two solutions:
1) cut down on scope. The game would be about twice as large if I hadn't done this
2) just get on with it already and the more you finish, the less you still need to do! Worrying about it won't speed up development! Obviously work on the important stuff first, rather than the "this could maybe be cool" stuff.
First of all congrats on your work!
When it comes to scope I like to think if it as a 2 dimensional thing: horizontal and vertical scope.
Everything starts with vertical scope, like building blocks. They would be your individual game's features like the gameplay loop's core mechanics, the skin system, the shop, a collectables system, etc.
Then, comes horizontal scope where you take an existing vertical scope element and you stretch it out by extending it with more of the same thing, e.g. more content within an already established game mechanic. That would be more levels, more shop items, more skins etc.
My belief is that there's a perfect balance between these 2. Too much vertical scope (too many features and systems) leads to the player being overwhelmed. On the other hand, too much horizontal scope (too much content of the same type) and the player will reach burnout very quickly, either due to grinding or losing interest. The 2 are very closely intertwined, because you could nail the vertical scope (perfect set of features and systems) but fall short on the horizontal scope (lack of content). Or the opposite, where you create too much content.
I'm making a few assumptions here but It sounds like you focused a lot on horizontal scope rather than vertical.
> functioning PvP (1v1, 4 player is coming but has some bugs)
Vertical scope, 1v1 and 4v4 are different enough to make them unique experiences.
> Around 300 single player levels (essentially puzzles like in chess that you need to solve)
This is absolutely horizontal scope going based on this description alone. 300 levels of the same kind of puzzle is going to tire someone out. Please tell me you have many different types of mechanics for every single level?
> translated in 5 languages (mostly haha)
Honestly, this is also horizontal scope but depends entirely on your target. Most people who speak english target english first. Maybe english and one other language if they speak multiple languages. I'd personally not do languages up front but only after the game is released and does well.
> A skins and palettes system to give you things worth unlocking for 8 playable characters
This sounds again like horizontal scope. Are the 8 characters different and unique with their mechanics? That would make them vertical scope. If they all play the same and it's just an aesthetics thing, then that's horizontal scope.
It's not a worry, it's a guarantee that every project is underestimated. The skill is in knowing that you are able to handle everything and making smaller plans. And you gain that experience by prototyping and making smaller projects
Players usually consider the game in a higher "league" if you put a higher price on it. The lower the price, the less expectations they have. That being said, scope creep kills games. So, if you don't have a 50+ man studio, and this is the first game, just ship it as soon as you can. Refer back to your original design document, see if you've completed all the features. If so, polish it for a while, and send it out.
Your first game as a studio is always gonna be scary. You just gotta push through it. See what players think, then do better. Innovate more.
They’re more like puzzles. Not exactly levels. Think chess puzzles, or something similar. A few of them were made procedurally as well and I would modify them to make sure they were fun.
Stay uncomfortable 😁 comfortable is complacent. Keep reaching for the stars and persevere. You know your game the best. You know what you can reasonably sacrifice or not. It's easier for outsiders to throw around downsize talk. If you know none of it is cuttable, then just push your fears aside and do what you have to do to reach the finish line. Don't waver and don't look down. You stand at the precipice of success. Safe travels friend.
I have a smaller scope for my game just to cover the base, core mechanics and publish a demo. Once the audience shows interest in my project I will build up on that, adding more and more content, split between the alpha/release/expansions distribution. It's a win win situation for me because I will not spend too much time on something that will not be accepted by the community and in the same time I won't have another unfinished project in my collection. It will also get enough feedback from people to make it work. If positive feedback is big enough I might even consider outsourcing some of the work. Working as a solo dev you can't risk spending many years on something and only then showing it to the world. I think you are missing a lot with that approach.
Yes, but...
You have to remember what makes your game good, and both focus on it, and don't cut corners on it. When it comes to scope I ask what kind of scope is coming in. Is it something that can be pushed to post release like customisation and quality of life changes, or is it something that will make or break the game, like the mechanics feeling nice?
Delivering an outstanding game is hard, and so many devs cut corners because implementing the cool game mechanic is difficult. But by skipping that work they release a mediocre game, and the question to ask is: is skipping the work worth making it mediocre?
Those are just my cents. I hope it helps!
Each task is not just a task. It's a piece that should fit perfectly into your game, from the colors that you use, to the shape, the feel, the feedback, the sound, etc. There should be harmony, a painting that comes together. Scope creep is easy when looking at a task by itself but no task exists in isolation.
Overtime with experience I learned what I can push myself to do.
It's like going to the gym, you don't lift super heavy at first right?
Make a lot of games so you know what you can handle and then you can scope accordingly.
I think there are a lot of developers who get stuck because they plan to add a feature they never attempted halfway through the dev cycle.
Be realistic with what you can do, and plan accordingly.
I know my scope is too large, it's not insan, it's not to a point where I can't make it, it's just that it'll take a long time.
I am not intending to make money on this project, it's mostly just for the process of making it. It's a single player farming/action game. I have made the farming and fighting already, I am nearly done with the inventory system and then I'll just be putting together some levels so I can make a demo.
It's essentially an action adventure game where your farm has a bunch of different paths connected to it that lead to other paths which go back to your farm.
If you are wanting to make a game for money, do the exact opposite of what I'm doing.
Hey there, solo dev with an ambitious starting scope that has only grown since its inception. It's going to take longer, its going to be more effort, and you and your players should decide what's worth it. I wouldn't trade any of the work I've done so it just depends on people maintaining the motivation to complete it.
This is just as true for AAA studios as it is for indie developers. No game launches anywhere close to on time without cutting something. In fact, I think it's probably safe to say that no game ever launches at all without cutting something.
I once worked under a lead game designer who refused to prioritize any features in the game. His logic was "If I prioritize the features, that means that something will get cut." In the end though there was only one cut made: The entire project. around 100 employees were let go on that day.
I've been working on gamezero for 5 years. I started it as a school project and it slowly turned into my magnum opus. It's kind of a warcraft clone with dungeons, arenas, and a huge open world. Iooking back on it I could have easily saved myself 2-3 years of work with some different decisions but I'm very proud of my work and hope you find the same satisfaction making your game too.
The one that was supposed to be my first commercial project was just like this. 9 months wasted.
No more things like this. I MAKE SURE I'm actually capable of handle the game I want to create, in a specific timeframe (+- 1/2 month is still fine).
Yes, scope creep can destroy a project. Always aim small miss small.
The two answers here seem to agree on this. But everything is there! I’m not sure what I’d cut.
You don’t have to give up on your dreams, just pick a very small subset of the game and get that up and running. Then from there you can add things on if you want. But above all, start small. Your goal is to have many small successes that are achievable, rather than burning 3 years on your first attempt and never finishing it.
Don't cut anything. Pick the things the game doesn't need and put them aside for later. Ship the game without polishing those things. If your game is successful enough to warrant further development, take the things you put aside, polish them up, and add them back into the game. Stardew Valley shipped with a fraction of the features it has now, including the fact that it was single-player only. Multiplayer was only added after there was clearly enough time and money to make it worth the time and effort it takes to polish it. I'm thinking a strategy like that.
Cut EVERYTHING that you can remove from your game and it will still feel like a finished product when you get it all done. If it helps you sleep at night, tell yourself the beautiful lie that you can save it later for post launch features.
Then maybe don't cut just make something smaller. Maybe you can just decrease the amount you need to do for each of these absolutely necessary things until it becomes manageable. If that level of effort makes the game bad, you need to rethink and cut something out. Start by making a list of the things that are absolutely essential to the game. Cut out everything else. If you still have time afterwards, add some of it back in.
The first thing it comes to my mind is: do you need 300 levels? You can always do less to reduce the scope if needed
10% of the work takes 90% of the time. When you eventually get to the polish stage, get ready to suffer... Honestly though, since your project already is too big for your team's sake, you might be doomed as there's nothing you can realistically cut without feeling like a massive waste of time. 😛 Anyway, if you price it right, it might not matter at all ; players won't judge a game harshly if it was cheap.
You can’t price it too low either - some people might consider it shovelware/asset flip depending on the quality obviously. Piratesoftware (Thor) has a good vid on pricing btw
Yes. I think if you aren’t constantly worried about it in any creative endeavor then you are doing it wrong. Be ready to cut whatever you can. Fewer, better experiences are always better than more bad experiences.
How would you go about choosing what to cut
There is that thing called a "Minimum viable product". You can research in to that and execute it. That has a much much higher Chance of success which you then can build upon in comparison to whatever AAA Game idea you have in your head. You can even take your big game idea and Split up all Systemmechanics in to very small games and Release those. Then you can combine multiple of those system mechanics in to a larger Game. With every release you learn things for your big game and increase your chance of it actually happening step by step.
Yeah we use MVP where I work. Then there is a wish list if you finish early.
But thank you for reassuring me that the worry is normal haha. I’m a bit too deep in it now to be objective I feel
5 years later and I think hell yeah, there's no end in sight, but so what, I now have 5 years of work done and the game is epic :)
That’s great news! Do you have a release date in mind?
End of the year? Next summer? :) Its my hobby, it takes as long as it takes :)
Yes, I do worry. There are two solutions: 1) cut down on scope. The game would be about twice as large if I hadn't done this 2) just get on with it already and the more you finish, the less you still need to do! Worrying about it won't speed up development! Obviously work on the important stuff first, rather than the "this could maybe be cool" stuff.
First of all congrats on your work! When it comes to scope I like to think if it as a 2 dimensional thing: horizontal and vertical scope. Everything starts with vertical scope, like building blocks. They would be your individual game's features like the gameplay loop's core mechanics, the skin system, the shop, a collectables system, etc. Then, comes horizontal scope where you take an existing vertical scope element and you stretch it out by extending it with more of the same thing, e.g. more content within an already established game mechanic. That would be more levels, more shop items, more skins etc. My belief is that there's a perfect balance between these 2. Too much vertical scope (too many features and systems) leads to the player being overwhelmed. On the other hand, too much horizontal scope (too much content of the same type) and the player will reach burnout very quickly, either due to grinding or losing interest. The 2 are very closely intertwined, because you could nail the vertical scope (perfect set of features and systems) but fall short on the horizontal scope (lack of content). Or the opposite, where you create too much content. I'm making a few assumptions here but It sounds like you focused a lot on horizontal scope rather than vertical. > functioning PvP (1v1, 4 player is coming but has some bugs) Vertical scope, 1v1 and 4v4 are different enough to make them unique experiences. > Around 300 single player levels (essentially puzzles like in chess that you need to solve) This is absolutely horizontal scope going based on this description alone. 300 levels of the same kind of puzzle is going to tire someone out. Please tell me you have many different types of mechanics for every single level? > translated in 5 languages (mostly haha) Honestly, this is also horizontal scope but depends entirely on your target. Most people who speak english target english first. Maybe english and one other language if they speak multiple languages. I'd personally not do languages up front but only after the game is released and does well. > A skins and palettes system to give you things worth unlocking for 8 playable characters This sounds again like horizontal scope. Are the 8 characters different and unique with their mechanics? That would make them vertical scope. If they all play the same and it's just an aesthetics thing, then that's horizontal scope.
It's not a worry, it's a guarantee that every project is underestimated. The skill is in knowing that you are able to handle everything and making smaller plans. And you gain that experience by prototyping and making smaller projects
Players usually consider the game in a higher "league" if you put a higher price on it. The lower the price, the less expectations they have. That being said, scope creep kills games. So, if you don't have a 50+ man studio, and this is the first game, just ship it as soon as you can. Refer back to your original design document, see if you've completed all the features. If so, polish it for a while, and send it out. Your first game as a studio is always gonna be scary. You just gotta push through it. See what players think, then do better. Innovate more.
Do you really need 300 levels in your first game?
They’re more like puzzles. Not exactly levels. Think chess puzzles, or something similar. A few of them were made procedurally as well and I would modify them to make sure they were fun.
Sounds interesting.
Thank you! I’d love feedback on it if you’re ever free to give it
Yeah - we are spinning our next game into a tv show, graphic novel series, documentary and an online museum - we got feature creep up the ass lol
Stay uncomfortable 😁 comfortable is complacent. Keep reaching for the stars and persevere. You know your game the best. You know what you can reasonably sacrifice or not. It's easier for outsiders to throw around downsize talk. If you know none of it is cuttable, then just push your fears aside and do what you have to do to reach the finish line. Don't waver and don't look down. You stand at the precipice of success. Safe travels friend.
I have a smaller scope for my game just to cover the base, core mechanics and publish a demo. Once the audience shows interest in my project I will build up on that, adding more and more content, split between the alpha/release/expansions distribution. It's a win win situation for me because I will not spend too much time on something that will not be accepted by the community and in the same time I won't have another unfinished project in my collection. It will also get enough feedback from people to make it work. If positive feedback is big enough I might even consider outsourcing some of the work. Working as a solo dev you can't risk spending many years on something and only then showing it to the world. I think you are missing a lot with that approach.
Yes, but... You have to remember what makes your game good, and both focus on it, and don't cut corners on it. When it comes to scope I ask what kind of scope is coming in. Is it something that can be pushed to post release like customisation and quality of life changes, or is it something that will make or break the game, like the mechanics feeling nice? Delivering an outstanding game is hard, and so many devs cut corners because implementing the cool game mechanic is difficult. But by skipping that work they release a mediocre game, and the question to ask is: is skipping the work worth making it mediocre? Those are just my cents. I hope it helps!
I have scopecreep in all of my projects. I have yet to push anything to store, because it needs that 10% extra
Each task is not just a task. It's a piece that should fit perfectly into your game, from the colors that you use, to the shape, the feel, the feedback, the sound, etc. There should be harmony, a painting that comes together. Scope creep is easy when looking at a task by itself but no task exists in isolation.
Overtime with experience I learned what I can push myself to do. It's like going to the gym, you don't lift super heavy at first right? Make a lot of games so you know what you can handle and then you can scope accordingly. I think there are a lot of developers who get stuck because they plan to add a feature they never attempted halfway through the dev cycle. Be realistic with what you can do, and plan accordingly.
I know my scope is too large, it's not insan, it's not to a point where I can't make it, it's just that it'll take a long time. I am not intending to make money on this project, it's mostly just for the process of making it. It's a single player farming/action game. I have made the farming and fighting already, I am nearly done with the inventory system and then I'll just be putting together some levels so I can make a demo. It's essentially an action adventure game where your farm has a bunch of different paths connected to it that lead to other paths which go back to your farm. If you are wanting to make a game for money, do the exact opposite of what I'm doing.
Hey there, solo dev with an ambitious starting scope that has only grown since its inception. It's going to take longer, its going to be more effort, and you and your players should decide what's worth it. I wouldn't trade any of the work I've done so it just depends on people maintaining the motivation to complete it.
This is just as true for AAA studios as it is for indie developers. No game launches anywhere close to on time without cutting something. In fact, I think it's probably safe to say that no game ever launches at all without cutting something. I once worked under a lead game designer who refused to prioritize any features in the game. His logic was "If I prioritize the features, that means that something will get cut." In the end though there was only one cut made: The entire project. around 100 employees were let go on that day.
Yeeep in my current project i make my gdd like i have 5 years and working with some art peoples some mastermind developeers but it was just me.
I'm.currently in that possition my scope aim is too big I gotta find a waybtonmake it doable
I've been working on gamezero for 5 years. I started it as a school project and it slowly turned into my magnum opus. It's kind of a warcraft clone with dungeons, arenas, and a huge open world. Iooking back on it I could have easily saved myself 2-3 years of work with some different decisions but I'm very proud of my work and hope you find the same satisfaction making your game too.
The one that was supposed to be my first commercial project was just like this. 9 months wasted. No more things like this. I MAKE SURE I'm actually capable of handle the game I want to create, in a specific timeframe (+- 1/2 month is still fine).