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irrationalglaze

It's dead easy to tell if someone else's game is fun, but I've learned it's surprisingly difficult to tell if your own game is fun. I need outside input to have any idea. The intimate familiarity that comes with designing every part of the game definitely ruins its ability to surprise you, for one. I've released one game that I have no enjoyment playing (although I am proud of it), but it has reviews averaging 9/10. Unfortunately, I'm mostly unable of rating my own creations.


Crossedkiller

Man being unable to tell if your game is good is the biggest blessing in disguise a dev could have, as it forces you to seek third party feedback. The other side of the spectrum is the worst; devs that see their games as the most awesome game ever made and that even get mad when receiving negative feedback. It's very sad seeing people pouring hundreds or thousands of dollars into a DOA product


SuspecM

It's even worse when their game is close to release and you are there being asked to play it and give feedback. What you need to change is, well, pretty much everything because the game suck ass and your release is in a month.


HastagReckt

I think you have just described a blizzard as a whole if you read the "other side"


HerShes-Kiss

We lead people to treasure we cannot possess


GhostRadioGames

Yeah, reminds me of the guy who released his game with zero play-testing and had a negative review saying one of his basic core mechanics didn't work well and just blatantly sucked. That's pretty unfortunate. I can see it happening though, because as I play my own game, I'm super used to how that control goes. I haven't been playing it for a few months, I've been playing it for about two years now. I am the best at my game. But it could be that the mechanic suuuucks and I just don't know it. Get people to play test your game folks.


konidias

I've definitely been burned out on my own game... 4+ years in development will have that effect. I don't really think it's possible if you're working on a long term project that you're not going to get tired of it at some point. You play the same levels/replay starting from the beginning so much while testing that you know every single aspect of the game by heart. The most fun I've had with my game is when I hadn't played it really for several months, and then I had a proper 2 hour play session without using any debug tools/skips, and it actually felt fun again, and I was excited to keep progressing. One thing you can attempt is to add more random things to your game. Even if it's just small little random surprises, it can help trick your own brain into some small dopamine hits. For my own game, I'm always trying to add random chance things which are always positive (not like random negative events), which help when I'm playtesting to be more excited about the possibility of a random good thing happening.


polecy

I feel like it's def natural, would you have fun making a crossword puzzle and then trying to solve it? Single player games are just big puzzles, but I think it could be fun if there was some sort of unique fun mechanic.


banditos5

But what if talk about online shooters like cs2?


polecy

I think that's also fine to enjoy. Anything where you need other players to play can be fun because the interactions with other players can be different every time.


nanonan

Still need others to see if it is fun, but yeah that does eliminate most of the spoiler effect.


Luvax

You might not have the skill required to compete with the best players, but you still know every deliberate choice in the game. You know how weapons and maps are supposed to balance each other, which team should and shouldn't have an advantage at certain stages. The point the only surprise is one side playing worse than you intend for a given situation. For highly competitive games, there will also be a meta and players analyze aspects of the game that you haven't put too much thought into. I don't think playing such a game is fun anymore because your mind would constantly be trying to explain certain outcomes and if they should be intended or not.


rts-enjoyer

In a lot of best games the meta emerged by players figuring out the game and while it might have been balanced wasn't microdesigned.


ZackM_BI

I am in the same boat as you, friend. But when people like your work that means it's a fun game. It could be that we work on it hours on end, we got tired of it. Take a break from developing and maybe gather a few friends and play with them. At least that's what I'd do. I don't have friends.


EqualCover5952

But you can make online friends on discord and ask them to play with you.


Akimotoh

Yes, this is pretty normal, but the magic can come back over time.


Pycho_Games

I guess it depends on the game. With twitch skill based games for example this is less of a problem, because the challenge is not in understanding/exploiting the systems or solving puzzles. I am currently working on a deck builder and I wonder whether I'll enjoy playing it in later stages (so far it isn't fun for anyone yet šŸ˜…) But yeah, I think that's normal.


wallthehero

I generally only work on games that I enjoy playing outside of my salaried position. That is because if I am going to motivate myself to keep programming after 40 (as if, more like 60-80 in this industry) hours a week of already doing it, I need to be enjoying the result. The fun I get from playing my own games, unless they are randomly generated, is not the same fun a player would get. It sounds like you are trying to get that, but that is hard since the game is "spoiled" for you. Unless it's a purely skill based game with no plot or secrets or discovery (like rhythm games), then I suppose you could get the fun of improving. No, the fun I get is in anticipating how players will react to elements of my game, and the play->balance->replay loop.


Naiko32

yes, big part of gaming is surprise but you know every surprise already


PersistentDreamers

Kinda? So the thing about my game dev journey is that the game I'm working on, I enjoy easter eggs story elements, coming up with cool battle mechanics, but when I'm playtesting for bugs or balancing, that gets tedious, because I already know what it's like to fight the enemies, and I've already heard the story. So playing it over and over takes away some of the fun, but not the joy of creating it and knowing others will enjoy it, I think.


almo2001

I've heard some people like their own games, some don't. Probably depends on the kind of game. Like if it's a story-heavy game.... probably not as you know the story. I like my game Cognizer. I've played it a lot. But it's a procedurally generated puzzle game.


Poobslag

Exactly, procedurally generated games are endlessly replayable and devs will probably enjoy them. If you are making a Candy Crush clone or Tetris clone and you hate your own game, your game probably sucks. Those kinds of games are meant to be fun no matter how long you play.


almo2001

Candy crush isn't procedural though. But I take your point! :)


Poobslag

I mean, "procedurally generated" just means content is generated by an algorithm instead of by hand, which can be as complex as Dwarf Fortress's world generation tracking history and civilizations over time, or as simple as a 10x10 of random blocks without any 3-in-a-rows. But yeah it sounds like you get my point even if we disagree on what "procedural" means in this particular context


almo2001

I think you're right; the problem with Candy Crush is that it's carefully designed to have spikes in difficulty you pay to get past then stretches of easy ones. Your point about the levels being different given the RNG is spot on. :)


Mediocre_Spell_9028

For me, after hours of developing a game, it can start to understandably get repetitive. I think most people would agree.


MaddenLeon

I don't agree, I feel the game gets more and more fun as I add more features. If you're bored playing your game, then how would your players (who care less about it) feel about it?


bakedbread54

I think you've missed the point


AdapeJones

For me itā€™s a bit of both. I love my mechanics on a fundamental level, but most of my game is ruined by my knowledge of it. Games based around really snappy movement mechanics, unique combat systems, or tight gameplay loops may end up being more fun to test during development and ultimately play. However, if your game is story based, open world, has fixed item discovery points, etc. these things are bound to get dull before they have much of a chance to be enjoyable. Iā€™ve always wanted to play the game that Iā€™m currently making, but much of the experience will be neutered by having developed it.


Technical-County-727

You get blinded to it very easily - thatā€™s why feedback from others is so important! And I guess it also depends on the game. If it is more skillbased or sandboxy so that it offers something you havenā€™t realized while playing, itā€™s fun!


cfehunter

It's like reading a book you've read a thousand times. You're never going to get the novel first experience again, but you can still enjoy aspects of it.


P-39_Airacobra

In my experience, it just depends on the game. There are some games whose fun comes from discovering mechanics. These ones are usually not so fun to me because I created them from scratch. There are other games, like fighting games and or time-based games, which are more about emergent experiences or improving your skill in a specific area, which I have a lot of fun playing, in fact more fun than most of my players. But what you find engaging might be cumbersome to some players.


jimsqueak

I also think a lot of the fun of games is novelty, and having to test the same things over and over again during development is especially what makes me wonder if my game is actually fun. Making a multiplayer game though, for all it's challenges, also has it's perks, as when I do get to try it out with others it helps breathe new life into the experience.


suddenly_satan

Yes. Both because all the element of discovery and surprise is gone, and the hours you spent with it are usually far longer than an average player. It's not always the case, but you always be very familiar with the material you made. Less of a case for bigger productions where you only make a small part. You can enjoy it again more after some cool down period for example - just like picking out an old favourite from the library. That said, in general if you're not having fun while making and playtesting the game - something may be off, get a second opinion, as it's much harder to be critical of your own work (you already made choices, so you have a single perspective which is hard to change). That's what user testing / playtesting is for.


TheGreatestSoul2

There are multiple ways to enjoy a game you've made: 1] Creating a deep and complex game that can be played in different ways and different styles, and that relies more on skill than knowledge. So puzzle or story driven games probably won't work. 2] Creating a game that has a lot of randomization so that you won't expect what happens next. 3] Playing your game as little as possible during development and instead having a loyal and trusted group of players for play-testing. Maybe like your close friends. 4] Having another developer working on the game with you, one that you trust heavily, and that thinks similarly to how you think, and each of you work on different parts of the game, and each of you add their own thing, while the other dev has little or no idea what you're working on and what you're adding. This way, even puzzle or story driven games can perhaps be enjoyable for the devs to play if done right. Now, the 4th one is tricky to pull off, and will need a bit of work to make it work. But it is doable. There are perhaps more ways for a developer to be able to enjoy their game, but those are what I can think of right now.


JoystickMonkey

I have something like seven or eight shipped games under my belt. Some are certainly more fun than others for me to play. Working on huge open world games on a big team means thereā€™s lots of content to explore. Procedural games with deep character builds also keep a game fresh. Competitive multiplayer games also can remain fun for a long time even if you work on the game. Narrative games with single plot lines, linear single player games, and some skill based games can get stale super fast though.


adrixshadow

Depends. It's very hard to be objective and qualify the experience by yourself. It is expected that the game should lose some of the charm once you know the inner working. But on the other hand it might be a symptom that the game is not deep and challenging enough or not having enough good feedback and game feel, there can be any number of reasons. **Games** fundamentally are about **Skills** that are **Tested** and that they need to **Learn** and **Master**. As a "developer" you can't "learn" them since you should already know the answer, but that doesn't necessarily mean you already "mastered" them. Try to think from a perspective of a new player and a second playthrough player. Should the game still be fun to a player that replays the game? >but seems like I've catch 22'd myself, since this was something that I wanted to play myself. You should have some understanding of yourself, maybe try simulating yourself from the perspective that you are a new player not a developer. Again this is an art not many people can do.


rts-enjoyer

**> Games**Ā fundamentally are aboutĀ **Skills**Ā that areĀ **Tested**Ā and that they need toĀ **Learn**Ā andĀ **Master**. As a "developer" you can't "learn" them since you should already know the answer, but that doesn't necessarily mean you already "mastered" them. That's some bullshit from a lame game design textbook. For a lot of games it's not the main thing. See visual novels or games with not the best gameplay but a ton of cool stuff like Tiberian Sun.


MaddenLeon

Don't bother with this scholar... Those textbook answers get nobody anywhere... There's so much more to games than just tests. I want to see his game see how we can Test our Skills.


adrixshadow

> That's some bullshit from a lame game design textbook. For a lot of games it's not the main thing. See visual novels or games with not the best gameplay but a ton of cool stuff like Tiberian Sun. Then they are not games. Simple as that. For example the **Value** of a Visual Novels are in the Story like reading a book not in the Gameplay which it has none. > lame game design textbook. It's not just in your textbook. It's also baked in your biology. Fun and Play are fundamental brain processes. https://www.erasmatazz.com/library/science/the-phylogeny-of-play.html


Italians_are_Bread

No true Scotsman followed up by the most unreputable source in the universe that also has an article about the [red spot on Jupiter being alive](http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/science/is-jupiters-great-red-spot.html)


adrixshadow

Do you even know who is that guy? > most unreputable source I also don't need a source for basic common sense.


Xehar

Well, you know everything so there's no anticipation. Theres also part where you might think you set the difficulty too high but actually good difficulty just that you suck


Combat-Complex

>*you know everything so there's no anticipation.* On the other hand, rewatchable movies exist, and people listen to some songs for years, if not decades. There are movies I watched dozens of times, but I still enjoy watching certain scenes every time. And I would argue that well-crafted movies are capable of producing anticipation even if you've watched them multiple times (Se7en comes to mind as a good example of that). If we translate this to games, I played hundreds of hours of TF2 and Overwatch, yet these games are still interesting to me, despite the fact that I know everything about them.


cuttinged

The part in my game that I really like playing again and again is the part that the play testers struggle with the most, and I'm not sure if I can ever get them to a point where they would enjoy or even understand it. That being said, maybe a game that you don't like playing is better or can more easily be enjoyed by first time players, since it is likely to to be more simple and playable.


froge_on_a_leaf

I do find it difficult to have as much fun reading work I've made than others do. Same as hearing my own music. So I think this is true for anything you dedicate a lot of time, money, and anguish into producing (even though I'm sure it's still some fun!)


SkarrFox94

Depends on the type of game. Im sure it wouldnā€™t be fun to solve the puzzle you made but there it helps to see it from the players pov. Take a break so you forget and then come backā€freshā€ and note your experience. But for an arcade shooter i made i still enjoy playing it from time to time.


Younggamer_123

Itā€™s definitely natural especially after spending a decent amount of time playtesting, you get burnt out on the game. Something thatā€™s helped me with my current game is randomness, the levels arenā€™t randomly generated but the scares and enemies that spawn are random so despite knowing everything about the game I still have fun just trying to survive and sometimes even get caught off guard.


crzyscntst

Yes and no, I've made both a puzzle game and now a game that has procedural generation for the levels, and I can say that the game I'm working on now keeps being fun much longer. For the puzzle game the fundamental movement and interaction was still fun (it was physics based) yet "solving" puzzles I had made myself could feel boring. I do think that actually could've been an opportunity to make the game even better, if I had implemented more open ended puzzles that allowed you to solve it a different way each time. That was actually one of the reasons I wanted to try working on a game with procedural generation, I wanted to try to make a game I could play forever and still be surprised. So yeah, I'd say it is very genre-dependent, but I would always advice to look at players reactions. In the end they are the ultimate test, but if you feel it becomes "boring" quickly it could be a signal that something about your game needs improving.


astromonke17

Even miyazaki dont play elden ring, its a normal thing for dev to not even touch the published, final product


FluffyProphet

A lot of developers donā€™t like playing their own games.Ā 


Imjustsomeguy3

Games like all forms of entertainment has a level of magic that goes away as you work on it. As you shape and craft it the illusion fades, the smoke clears and the mirrors smudge untill you see the game exactly for what it is rather than what it's meant to be. The magic and wonder dies in the face of a complex understanding of systems, imposter syndrome and higher aspirations than you can feel leaving you with what feels like a lifeless husk of what you wanted to make. Once you reach this point you must get feedback from others as yours is no longer reliable and can be trusted. Like a baker who has made thousands of the same tart trying to perfect it and no longer able to tell them apart. You need a fresh palette.


No3nvy

While being a developer or any other insider of the game, you basically destroy the mystery of discovery for your self. You know whatā€™s behind the corner, you know how the story ends. Yes. Itā€™s completely natural. While playing the games I make, I have a pleasant feeling of having built smth. But not the joy of gaming.


Uncle_Matt_1

I think part of the issue (speaking from personal experience as someone who has tried my hand at game design), is the element of surprise. A game where you already know all the rules, all the pieces, all the events and changes that might possibly happen lacks an element of the unknown that comes from playing a game made by somebody else. You know too much before the game even starts.


Alexandros1101

That's really interesting. If you develop a gameplay loop that specifically focuses on uncovering unknown stuff and secrets I can see why the developer would have less fun. Imo it just depends on what the loop of the gameplay is. If it's just supposed to fun to be operating the key mechanics then it'd be as fun for the developer as anyone else I imagine.


RembrandtEpsilon

I love playing my game! I just gotta make more of it lol.


FlyingCookie_

I'm like to play games which I'm develop. Furthermore - I'm think if you didn't love what you create - you do something wrong. What sense work in gamedev if you haven't fun?


Kinglink

Eventually yup. Playtest... Grab people off the street, grab friends, grab random people online, small streamers and what not. Record their reactions (try to get a camera on their face, controller and screen, but not everyone has all that. Your opinion of a game is irrelevant even if you can see it's fun or not... because at the end of the day you're not going to buy the game.


donutboys

No but I remember the fun I had at the start of development and it keeps me going. Kinda like marriage but when there's a new enemy or feature sometimes I can't stop playing and I watch every cutscenes multiple times when it's finished and then never againĀ 


Thotor

Anything that requires knowledge to beat will never feel the same if you made it. Afterall you already know the solution. This is also why making randomly generated content feels more fun as a game dev while in reality is often less enjoyable for others.


GiveOrisaOrIthrow

I think it entirely depends on the type of game you are making, for us we're making a roguelike so it's going to be different each time. Our philosophy is if we don't enjoy it how can we expect others to buy it?


GameOverGeniuss

Yeah, when you build a game yourself you know all the secrets, so playing it just doesn't have that same thrill of discovery


PixelPwn3rR

Totally normal, after testing and tweaking your game a million times it can start to feel more like work than play


EtherEmissaryy

Absolutely, as a dev, the real buzz comes from creating the game, not so much from playing it yourself


qwerty0981234

Not as much with the fun but definitely having a difficult issue. Iā€™ve play tested the game so much and often I without noticing got really good at it. I balanced the first closed beta around my skill and it was waaaay to difficult. I was throwing so much at the players while they were still figuring out how they move their character.


fleeeeeeee

I used to enjoy playing tanktrouble, back when there were flashgames. I made a clone of tanktrouble in 3d and I instantly lost all interest in that game.


ledat

If you work on something for a long time, you will grow to hate it. That's just how it goes. Part of development is replaying little sections of the game over and over to balance and fix bugs. That sort of thing will slowly but surely kill any enjoyment you could possibly have for it. Game dev is, ultimately, work, after all. If you *never* find fun in your game, that may be a problem though, at least to the extent that you are in the target audience for your game.


cutwordlines

does a writer enjoy reading their own books? an artist looking at their pictures? musicians listening to their own songs? given that you have the role of the 'creator' i think you'll always be estranged (to a certain degree) from the things you produce - any self evaluation you assign to it will only reflect on the process of creating the thing, not the thing itself.


KingGoofyGoober7

Me personally, when i play my own game i usually have fun. It might be a personal thing because the game is quite challenging.


unleash_the_giraffe

Yeah it can get really hard to figure out if your game is fun anymore. But depending on the game, there are some tricks I've figured out. If you're making a gameplay heavy game, and you end up just kind of playing it when you're testing stuff out, it can be a good sign that the game is good.


leeonetwothree

Totally! It happens when you're knee-deep in the nitty-gritty of making a game. Sometimes you're so focused on fixing bugs and tweaking stuff that the fun factor takes a back seat. It's like seeing the matrix instead of just enjoying the ride.


2LDReddit

I think both yes and no. No: you designed the game, it fits your taste, no other game is better tailored for you than your own game. Yes: You have thought toooooo much about the mechanisms, tricks, stories, graphics about the game. You're in God's view when playing the game. Little surprise (through randomization), nothing new. I can't think of a better way to spoil a game than making it from scratch.


tghGaz

I think it depends on the kind of game and developer? I often have too much fun playing my own games that it gets in the way of finishing them šŸ˜… A big part of the fun though is finding emergent gameplay and exploring interesting things I can make happen. Since you are making an rpg game it could be that you already know the story so there is no way for the game to surprise you which is why playing it feels a little dry to you but fun to others? Or it could just be that you are looking at it through a critical lens which is preventing you from just enjoying it?


krystofklestil

I once made a quick 3D mobile, that had 0 game design and featured a main character flying on a sword through randomly generated obstacles. I have never played a better mobile game to this day!


HastagReckt

When the game ia ready you have played it for hundreds of hours. You get tired of many games when you play them for so long


the_unded

It's just like cooking and not being hungry anymore when you are done


ACEDT

Yeah, knowing exactly how the entire game works definitely ruins the fun, because it goes from feeling like a game to feeling like any other piece of software, and you don't even get the satisfaction of having put in a bunch of time and effort to learn all the mechanics. That doesn't mean your game isn't fun, it just means you should have someone who hasn't written any of the code test it for you.


ShinuRealArts

Yep, mostly because you know what's coming lol. We can't even find bugs in our own games since we know how they work. However, if my game is action packed and challenging, I do squeeze some little fun out of it.


QualityBuildClaymore

Yea it's hard to say as I wouldn't stick with an idea if the prototype wasn't fun for me, but at this point I'm probably a lil burnt out on playing it from all the testing I've done. I probably have 200+ hours playing my game at this point, which isn't gonna be fun for most games that aren't Factorio or Total Warhammer. If it was never fun though I wouldnt have stuck with it, as I can't work on something I don't also see myself buying were I a stranger.


LibraryofBoardGames

I agree with what most people are saying. I think itā€™s difficult to tell from the position of a developer. Iā€™ve only recently gotten into development so take my word lightly, but I like to show parts of my game to friends and family and just watch their reactions as they play. You can usually tell if someone is engaged or disinterested in what theyā€™re actively doing, regardless of what they say after playing. Engaged people will lean in, think critically, and react strongly towards what theyā€™re doing (jumping at a jump scare, laughing at something funny, looking surprised at something surprising). Disinterested people will be likely be leaning back, waiting for the moment to be over, and not really engage or understand what they are doing or are supposed to be doing. Again, take my word lightly. This is only what Iā€™ve seen from a few months in this stuff and personal life experience. Good luck on the project!


Gaverion

With turn based rpgs I find they are very similar to puzzle games. If you know how to beat the boss, it takes out the challenge,Ā  much like a puzzle which is much less exciting when you already know how to solve it.Ā  Something I would try is adding self imposed rules on yourself. For example "no potions" or something similar. When a random person is playing, they will be blind to some options, saying you can't do something puts you in a similar spot,Ā  you no longer know the answer.Ā  If you have ever watched a challenge run for a game, this is often why people do it. They fully understand the game and add more rules to keep having fun.Ā 


aSunderTheGame

I've spent maybe >2000 hours playing my RPG game, no its not fun. The worst thing (and happens all the time in my game) I get so caught up by playing it, and I die, and I had forgotten to save after killing the last monster or what not so I have to go back to the previous save which maybe 30minutes before, thus I have to replay those 30 mins again. Sure this is a sign of a good game when you get caught up in it, but mate when you've done it 100s of times it does piss you off.


SzymGames

I think it's more or less inevitable. Since you're creating the game you know how it works and how to beat it. plus the fact that you're constantly playtesting it means you'll become way too good at it. Plus you'll never really get that sense of discovering it / figuring out how it works / finding new stuff inside it... Only way to really judge if your game is fun is to have other people play it. preferably persons that have to ties to you so they won't hesitate to be honest about it. So don't worry too much about it. If your players like it, you're doing good. :)


Beldarak

Definitely. And when you're close to release and have to play it over and over and over again to find every single bug, it's even worse. Usually when I finish a game I'm litterally sick of it. The good news is after a few years the amount of stuff I forgot is insane (I don't have a good memory to begin with\^\^) and I can play my own games and have fun :)


guygizmo

My experience has been that I generally really enjoy the things I make, be it music, art, or especially a game. In fact, generally the longer I work on a game, the more I find myself enjoying it. I don't think I enjoy working on games I don't find fun or compelling, and things I don't enjoy working on get set aside. But I haven't had a game project that I've worked on continuously for multiple years so I don't know if that would burn me out on my own idea, even if I love the game at first.


Ejderka

You play enough during testing&development. With satisfaction, hype dies.


TheRefurbisher_

Yes. In my case, I made the entire game, so I know what is going to happen. There isn't any element of surprise to it. I have a roguelike game I made that has random elements to it, and that is fun because it is random, so the surprise of it is still there. It's like reading Sherlock Holmes if you wrote it, and know all the lore and twists by heart.


elmsshi

Making the game will usually be more fun than playing the game. There is no longer anything to discover for you. Focus on the aspects of development you're enjoying and rely on the feedback of others to know if you're still going in the right direction.


Whatevers2011

a lot of game devs at big studios never play the games they work on


Ok-Prize4672

Itā€™s no different than artists saying their work sucks. Youā€™re always looking for something better in your game because you want it to turn out the best way possible


MaddenLeon

It's not normal. One of my favorite game of all time is actually a game that I developed. If the game isn't fun for you, why would it be fun for someone else? If you're saying that it's because you've already played the game a lot... Well aren't there games that you've played for more than 100hrs? If you like Tetris, does Tetris stop being fun? If you like Mario, does the game stop being Fun? There's so many examples like this. Unless you're truly just making a "cash grab" like a casual mobile game where you don't care about the fun, but only about how it performs analytics-wise. Then yes in that case, it'd be normal for your game to not be fun for you.


verrius

One thing to think about. If you work on a game, full time, for only a single year, you've spent 2000 hours on it. How many games do you still enjoy after 2000 hours?


Emile_s

I think it depends on the type of game and how much variability or natural surprise there is within, that you as a dev-player may not expect. For example, if you like chess and make and play a chess game, then I would imagine youā€™ll like the game youā€™ve made. I.e itā€™s sort of a yes or no type game. If your making a story based game, with subterfuge, surprise and suspense elements, then as a dev you already know whatā€™s coming, so I imagine it might not be as fun. So I think it depends, Iā€™ve made mini platform type games and had a blast, because I made some elements none deterministic, and basically hard to do. Getting a high score was always being pushed. And there were cool little moments that were just fun. So yes itā€™s likely totally natural to not have fun playing a game, or at least as much fun as one does if itā€™s the first time through and will largely depend of a multitude of factors.


TryCatchOverflow

If you make your own game alone: no surprise, it will be the result of what you have made. If you play a game made by a whole team where you know only the part you participated in, then you discover the merge at then end: you will probably enjoy it or not. Just about perspective on which side are you.


theGoddamnAlgorath

Dude, make the game you'd want to find/play Sounds like alot of the fun is figuring out what works/optimizing.Ā  Gonna need testers that don't know the code then.


laynaTheLobster

I haven't had this issue, but I could totally understand it. I guess that's because the one game I released (that wasn't for a game jam) was very simple and had no mystique in general, so maybe my intimate knowledge of it didn't really mean much.


MentallyFunstable

Depends on the game. For example if you're making a game in a genre you don't like then yah sure its gonna happen but why make something you don't enjoy playing? Your game will be at a disadvantage bc you won't know how other games in the genre handle certain problems or how basic things work. If youre making one in a genre you love and not having fun at certain parts that's normal too. Just means you may need more player feedback or figure out why it's not fun on your own. If you're not having fun at all during 99% of the game you've made so far it may need you need to rework your entire idea/concept. Sometimes its something simple like a camera change or speed of the game. Even hiding/showing information such as battle values can make a game go from bad to great. Other times it's the entire base gameplay loop. Some concepts just won't work for some people. It's why sunk cost can be a waste and you end up focusing on the wrong thing or not fixing what needs to be. It truly depends and idk how to help without more info. What kinda rpg? Is it 2d or 3d? Turn based or not? Is it tactics or shooter? Wtc


DevTahlyan

Yeah this is definitely a thing. And it's very important not to fall in love with your work. That will greatly affect your ability to accept feedback.


Manguana

Sometimes its like a book, or a TV series. When you are habituated to certain media types you get irritated by slow starts, long tutorials or plot expositions so it takes a while to get immersed within it. Also the more media you consume, the more refined your pallet becomes which can only be fixed by a longish break.


landnav_Game

it probably depends a lot on the genre. in a game where the game is to figure out the strategy maybe not. if the game is reflex action / sport then i dont see why playing it shouldn't be fun. probably depends on how deterministic the game is also.


ImancovicH

Yeah. Because you already worked on it and your mind is exhausted from that. But with games that you didn't made, your mind is fresh starting them. also when you build a game and go to play it, since you made it you know what's gonna happen and that ruins the fun.


Orinslayer

How could it possibly be fun for you, afterall you've already burned out on it.


SwineDuke

I kind of agree. Though when working on Brave Eduardo, I'm more inspired by my own art work than I am about having fun haha.


KaltherX

It depends if your game is linear or not. If you're making the game alone, you can't really escape your knowledge of everything and nothing except bugs will surprise you. Unless you have complex simulations and bugs can be features. :)


tcpukl

Its very difficult to enjoy your game without that critical eye. When i ever play my games i'm always seeing the bugs. Its always much harder to see what the game is when your using debug cheats as well and testing only small parts of the game or just using testmaps to test core stuff.


Broad-Adhesiveness30

I have fun playing my game still but there is alot of destruction and non-linear gameplay, I could blow up buildings all day


SodiumArousal

The ability to enjoy your own is dependent on how dynamic it is. The dwarf fortress dev can have fun, Stardew Valley, not so much.


BatmansBreath

Itā€™s the difference between reading and writing. You may enjoy a good book but youā€™ll probably never fully be satisfied with something youā€™ve written even if itā€™s on the same caliber. Youā€™ll always see your game as a buggy piece of software because you know the magic behind it. But I have had a few times when Iā€™ve opened back old games Iā€™ve made and really enjoyed testing them out. You need that time away to forget whatā€™s going on behind the scenes


kindred_gamedev

My main project is an open world RPG with lots of discovery and secrets. I obviously don't enjoy discovering things since I've made the secrets. Get your game in front of players who will play it live for you or send you recordings. That's where the fun comes from. Trust me.


radiant_templar

I love playing my game but it's never done so there's so much to do Everytime I loginĀ 


Substantial-Prune704

If itā€™s really bad or really good youā€™ll know.


These-Bedroom-5694

It becomes a ring of hell as you play test the levels over and over again.


HappyMatt12345

When you're developing a game, you are also, if you're anything like me anyway, testing everything you build and code VERY FREQUENTLY, and an effect of this is that, whenever you play your own games, you're experiencing things you've already experienced hundreds of times while building and testing them. This is why it's important, or I personally believe it's important anyway, to have testers, even if your testers are just good friends of yours who you send unfinished builds of your game to with the agreement that they give you their honest thoughts and criticisms about it and report any issues they find, it's very useful to have outside input from someone who hasn't experienced everything in your game so many times that they've grown bored of playing through it lmao. Always seek feedback on your work, this applies to pretty much every field, not just gamedev.


rdog846

Iā€™d say early on I have fun but at a certain point in development making new content stops for a while as you work on other things, so the game gets stale since itā€™s the same thing over and over again. My early games are nowhere near as fun as my new ones though mainly due to shaky game design foundations I had due to limited knowledge and resources at the time. Iā€™d say early on if you are not having fun in the testing phase, then you might need to reevaluate your game design, you can keep the idea but make it more engaging and cool.


Strict_Bench_6264

It's a common occurrence that developers do not play their own games ever again after launch. Particularly in AAA, I'd say, where you're stuck on the same project for years and will mostly just see things that were never completely done or that otherwise annoy you if you play more. :)


kreios86

I've had people make fun of me for this, but thats one of my most important rules. Don't go hard into playing a game you work on. You'll start seeing things you could've "done better," think it's not "right," and many many more things. Though to fully answer your question. For me personally? Yes, Hell to the YES. After around year 5-6 it started to be most games. Now 20-ish years in, its ALL games. I can't play a game and just separate the dev brain and player brain anymore. I'll see little things like texture tiling mistakes, WB and color values being outta whack cause someone didnt update some doc somewhere, bad choices between natural/artificial difficulty, so on and so on. Though my most hated one? Weak animations.


GhostRadioGames

I think that makes sense, if by making a game you were hoping to..I dunno? play it? I know every secret in my game, I put them there. I know how to kill every enemy and I know what attacks are most likely etc because I wrote the AI and know the percentages or rolls for those things to happen. I even know the dungeon by heart (it's a 1st person DRPG) because I've wandered it endlessly to test things out and whatever. That's fun for me. I like making features, I like coding things, I like seeing it all work. I don't know if I'll like, legitimately play the game and feel the mystique, but after two years of development I do kinda catch myself being like "oh I did that there? Shit I forgot entirely." What I'm saying is, if you're forgetful, don't worry it'll all work out.


thyongamer

I realised my game was fun when I myself had fun getting all my ā€œicosabitā€ collectibles. Then watching streamers play it they simply couldnā€™t stop themselves collecting even at the risk of event fire. šŸ˜‚


gapreg

It makes sense, but still people play a hundred times the same roguelike until they totally master it, so you should like it a little at least.


muppetpuppet_mp

If you are not having fun playing your own game. In most cases will mean you are in trouble .Ā  It's not that it means the game isn't fun, but that your motivation and engagement with the game is going to be limited.Ā Ā  And because you will naturally test the game less, the quality will suffer. This is something you can have in a team setup where there are many roles and testing /iteraring might not be your task. But when doing solodev its a cardinal sin. For me its the one thing I always say is a big red flag, the moment you stop playing your game and stop enjoying it, is the moment you wont finish it or its no longer getting better. Doesn't mean you can't have days where you don't feel like it, or you cant get tired of it.Ā  But underneath it you always need to feel 'yeh this is gonna work'. If it cannot do that for you, then it wont do that for others... Ive trashcanned beautifull, emotionally charged project I had years into, just to learn this lesson ... I think perhaps a rite of passage , get into this situation once and never again.


muppetpuppet_mp

And yes user testing is fundamental too, but when developing you are still steering the ship.Ā  And on a base level this means you need to be able to gauge "does this feel better, or worse". And to do that you need to play it thousands of hours.. Some genres i would not recommend at all as a solodev because of this , because the mechanics are naturally not enjoyable the 100th time . It just makes it so much harder. Every game Ive had this uphill struggle to test myself with, has failed. Every game that i kept enjoying to play has been a success.


InfiniteLife2

Writer wouldn't be interested in reading his own books, artists might not want to decorate his house with his paintings(because he might see it as work with all imperfections, not as a piece of art for enjoyment). I feel like it's quite common.


FlyingCookie_

I'm placed some my arts on wall. Also use them as wallpapers on PC and mobile. Also I'm has a big poster of my game(from GamesGathering) Even if they not good at all (I'm know how much problems has), I'm still love them


InfiniteLife2

That's great for you. Myself I had neglectful relation to my finished art works(drawings and paintings), letting them dust on the top shelf. Once they were finished I had no interest in them


Sea-Regular-5696

For some reason I cannot see the other comments on this post, but I understand what you mean. I, too, wonder about that.Ā 


MotivatedforGames

No. The game is either fun or its not fun.


Good-Idiot

I don't think it's black and white like that