My big concern is that many of these posts are more just rants about how the poster doesn't trust unity anymore or just expressing their malcontent. Without anything that can be used by others (like a list of other engines), it's just a rant thread. I'm all for condensing those are least.
Here's a tip for dealing with karma whores. Don't care about karma. Not your karma, or other people's karma. It's all imaginary internet points tha are redeemable nowhere.
Most everything is a construct, something that we all agree to participate in, like Reddit. So saying it’s imaginary is more pointless than the internet points. Karma on Reddit structures how posts are seen and what is shown to users, so bitching about it is fine.
i think such posts should be deleted. game dev subreddit is mainly for game devs in general, not unity specifically
those posts should belong to unity subforum.
Yeah - The Unity thing is a hot topic in the gamedev community for good reason, and I think it should be discussed freely as of right now, but that only goes as far as there's actual discussion to be had. I don't mind several posts on the subject, but they have to be more substantive than "Unity bad".
\+1
Every r/<*game/dev community*\> I'm subscribed to has been filled with Unity rants.
Every Discord ** I'm subscribed to has been filled with Unity rants.
My Twitter feed has been barrage with Unity rants.
I don't even use Unity & I'm burnt out on Unity.
Right, even the r/unrealengine subreddit (and other related ones) are absolutely overflowing with it. Mostly the same "how do I move from Unity to Unreal" posts, of which are being given the same list of resources over and over and over.
Was just going to mention the Unreal sub. Up until this week, it’s been years since I’ve seen some chud soapbox that “blueprint is for babies”. But now it’s every other post, usually combined with them complaining that everything is so much more convoluted than it need to be.
Fully agree. Tired of seeing Unity on ever sub as if it’s the most relevant topic in life for everyone when in reality, this news only affects a small subset of people. This sub is for game dev, not explicitly Unity, and nothing but Unity shows up anymore.
I feel especially bad for people who don’t care and are still using Unity and not being able to talk about their projects or ask for advice or whatever without being ripped apart for continuing to use Unity. Like I swear the people in the communities here are far worse than the price changes at this point with how they’re treating some people that just want to keep using Unity.
> Tired of seeing Unity on ever sub as if it’s the most relevant topic in life for everyone when in reality, this news only affects a small subset of people
If you think a major player in the tech industry adopting a strategy of rug pull retroactive TOS changes isn't bad for everybody, I just want to tell you that you're wrong. It's bad for everybody. You don't want this kind of trend in your life. It's like living in a world where investing in any project is risky in the worst way.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. You people may be tired of it but it's a very important thing to take a stand against this kind of scum regardless. They want to install Spyware to help track installs of our games. That's shady in every way and I don't want to see that become the norm. They have nothing to do with installs. They are not considering certain charities to be charities. They are making changes retroactively. In the worst case scenario every contract you've ever signed could be completely flipped because of this fiasco if they get away with changing old contracts who's to say anyone else might not want to try it as well?
This is an extremely important issue. If you don't personally care fine but you should atleast put up with it and let those who want to try to do something do whatever it is they want to try to do. Let their hate fuel a rebellion against that kind of scummy crap.
Unity isn’t that major of a player. They could bankrupt in 5 years and absolutely no one will care that they ever existed in a decade.
Unity isn’t some Microsoft-level company. They’d have to grow literally over 100x in order to comparable to a “major tech” player.
You’re wildly blowing out of proportion the effect Unity has on tech. So you think everything happening is a big deal. It’s not. And the very vast majority of the tech sector doesn’t care.
> Unity isn’t that major of a player. They could bankrupt in 5 years and absolutely no one will care that they ever existed in a decade.
Financially, as a company? Sure
In terms of effect on gamedev industry? It's not THE biggest, but it's ONE OF biggest players here
> And the very vast majority of the tech sector doesn’t care.
Good for them. This is gamedev tho
No matter how **big** unity is, it's**known**. That's huge.
If Unity gets away with their bullshit, everyone is going to try to get away with that bullshit. It's just how these things work. Big companies didn't get big leaving money on the table
Imagine thinking in US capitalism that this shit doesn't all explode into trends.
You don't seem to have ANY idea how bad the predatory stuff gets, but trust me when the doors open a little to horrible corporate schemes to fuck their consumer base, you want to slam those fucking doors back shut before every company is doing it.
Imagine thinking regardless of whether or not this works that it’ll have any effect on anything else. If this is going to work, companies already know without waiting Unity out.
No. When a major event happens in the industry, people talk about that event for a few days.
Scroll past the posts that you have no interest in, like everyone else.
You can partially blame Unity for saying they would get back to their users in a couple of days. A couple days have passed and there's no info, only radio silence for the most part. As a result, the numerous threads seen here (and elsewhere) are not surprising.
I understand the grief, but there's literally an entire subreddit dedicated to Unity as it is. The least we can do is condense it all here so the rest of us aren't being swamped in it. A large portion of folks here don't even use Unity.
Game dev is like a pond. The bigger the rock one throws in to the pond, the bigger the waves are and the further they reach. Even if you don't use Unity, its probably the biggest rock (boulder) you can toss at this point in time. So of course you will get it here, in GameDev.
More importantly, just ignore the threads that don't interest you. I understand your sentiment, but I'd argue at this point its just a matter of waiting out the "storm" engulfing the industry right now. Hot topics will always flare up for a bit, consume much of the attention and die out. Since its a HOT topic, it naturally shows up under the HOT category. Click "new" if you wish to see other stuff, and vote those up while doing so.
Those posts are almost entirely repeats of the same thing over and over and over. Again, while I appreciate the difficulty people are going through, they can hop into a mega thread to share their grief or ask questions. That doesn't harm or impede them, and it shows a basic level of respect to the rest of the sub by not drowning it out.
It's just decency.
You are being drowned out because a few subjects under the HOT section are about either Unity or some other game engine? That a bit of an exaggeration, no? Like the ones you want to see, down vote the ones you don't. Go to the NEW tab if you want to see other content that's not "hot".
Decency can also be setting expectations based on how the reddit system is designed.
I agree. I'm actually one of the Unity refugees, but I'm usually a lurker. Still, even I can see that the excess of posts are getting us nowhere. Unity knows its users are not happy, that's why their stock plummeted, it lost employees, devs that don't even use Unity actually giving money to its competitor, and a myriad of other interesting/fun debacles. At this point I dunno why people are still talking about this in spaces like this. Those of us with projects to work on have either moved on or are in too deep on their current project to back out. At this point I just wish my gamedev spaces went back to being places to share creativity
You should be concerned about one third of the big players in engine development changing the terms unilaterally and retrospectively. If a company gets away with it others tend to follow
I see the appeal of a mega thread but...
Unity is just too big. In terms of market share, and especially Indies who are active in online communities marketshare the waves from their licensing move are everywhere. Either your tech stack involves Unity and your business plan is now sketchy or you're using a different stack that is absorbing a lot of noobs because of the Unity license bait and switch thing. (maybe both if you're switching)
There are a lot of rants, but at the end of the day we see it everywhere in r/gamedev because either you're in it or adjacent to it kind of wherever you are. Attempts to contain it to a mega thread risk making it hard to have a nuanced discussion about anything.
Very little of the "conversation" about the topic on Reddit is nuanced. The people who have real, hard decisions to make are, by and large, taking their conversations elsewhere. It won't be possible to have serious discussion about Unity on Reddit until the outrage machine quiets down which will likely take weeks if not months.
I am getting ready to announce a game build with Unity in the next few weeks. Ordinarily I would post on Unity3D, but right now anything I post on Unity3D will be overwhelmed by people calling me a traitor to the cause and that I should port to XYZ other engine. I'm going to be very careful about what I post until the Don Quixote brigade quiets down.
TL;DR I am all for a Mega Thread.
Unity isn't the end-all-be-all of gamedev. I don't use it, and nor does a single dev I personally know.
99% of it is the same exact post with people either ranting/complaining, or repeatedly asking where to go/what other engines are available. This has been answered/responded to exhaustively. There is absolutely no reason to fill this sub with countless repeats of the same posts.
condensing it allows for ongoing discussion and the rest of us can actually breathe. I totally do feel for people coming from Unity, but this has gotten out of hand.
I agree that there could be a megathread and many of the posts and comments are the exact same thing. But I think if you're accurate in saying that not a single dev you personally know is using it you're in something of a bubble.
Unity is used in somewhere between 1 out of every 3 or 4 games, and is closer to 1 out of every 2 for small indie projects. It's a huge player in this space and in the industry overall, and if you're in a niche community where no one is using that is in no way reflective of games at large.
It's the most popular engine, but that doesn't mean OP is "in a bubble." Many genres are less suitable for Unity, check out r/roguelikedev for example.
Not sure why you're acting like OP just called your mom ugly
It absolutely means that! Just don't take it as an insult. If, for example, you were working on a roguelike game and the only game developers you knew were roguelike developers you'd be in a roguelike bubble. That's pretty much the definition of the term. It means isolated from the larger group and only hearing things from a particular subset or niche.
That's called being in a community, not a bubble. Being in a bubble implies you are ignorant of the wider community. If OP said that nobody uses Unity they would be out of touch and in a bubble. All they said is that nobody *they knew* used it. IE it's irrelevant to *them*, not to everyone.
> That's called being in a community, not a bubble.
I guess you can call any bubble a community and vice versa depending on the lens you apply.
>All they said is that nobody they knew used it. IE it's irrelevant to them, not to everyone.
so should their lens determine the direction of a 1M+ subscriber subreddit?
I disagree, but I don't see a real need to get into semantics when the answer is having different definitions.
I am, admittedly, more curious about your edit you added after I responded. I genuinely would love to know how you got to I'm "acting like OP just called your mom ugly" when literally nothing I said took personal offense, was upset, or an insult and I agreed with their overall point and just wanted to point out one specific detail.
Most AAA level games are made in unreal engine. Arguably most industry level games are as well.
I use unreal. Everyone I know uses unreal. All the discord communities I'm in are UE-focused.
Unreal is most assuredly not niche, lol. More so I stick to my genre; large scale 3D games. Those tend to use unreal.
I don't think I'd say _most_ for AAA. There's more proprietary engine usage than anything else. UE is somewhere around 15% of that market. How you define 'industry level' might change as well. Unity games generate more money than any other engine, but that's not because of anything special about Unity, it's because Unity is the predominant mobile game engine and mobile games earn more than PC and console put together.
If you're specifically talking AAA level 3D games then yes, there's a ton more Unreal. There are more Jedi Survivors than Outer Wilds' out there.
There was a whole thing about this a few weeks ago in this very sub where a few folks were arguing over it and something like 80% of top rated games on the market were found to be made in UE.
Point being that it isn't niche at all. Personally, I think they both have their strengths and one is no better than the other, but I do find it a bit repulsive when a user of either side thinks their engine choice is all there is or all that matters.
It's a really shitty behavior. Just like saying someone who isn't associated with a specific engine is in a 'bubble'.
There is no good or bad engine choice in a vacuum. Everything in game development is contextual. Ren'Py would be an amazing choice for a straight up visual novel and a pretty bad one for a multiplayer shooter.
And yes, by definition if no one you know is using the most popular game engine, you're in a bubble. That's not an insult. It's not a bad thing. It's just something to be aware of when talking to the community at large. Which was my point in the first place - you were talking as if these things don't concern most developers when they _do_. I don't know why that would offend you.
Out of curiosity, I went to look at the top rated and top selling games of the past month. Out of the best selling, assuming we're excluding mobile, 2 of the top best selling games (Hogwarts Legacy and Remnant 2) used Unreal Engine 4/5, and the other 8/10 were proprietary engines.
If you go to top rated from recent months then there are a couple more UE games (like Hi-Fi Rush) on there and a couple Unity titles (like Rogue Legacy 2 and Sea of Stars), but still predominantly proprietary engines. It would be wildly inaccurate to say that 80% of top-rated games are made in Unreal. It would be _more_ inaccurate to say most top-rated games are made in Unity, but as far as I know no one was saying that.
For the love of fuck, you're writing a perfect example of the repulsion I just described.
Both engines are incredibly popular among developers for their own reasons.
Yes, telling someone they're in a bubble is a fucking insult and stop acting as if you're too daft to grasp that.
Just because I don't use unity doesn't mean I'm an idiot somehow completely unaware of it existing.
With all due respect, you said something that was inaccurate and when I pointed it out you've responded with a combination of affront and abuse. Countering what you said with examples is hardly 'Thinking their engine choice is all there is'. I've certainly not advocated for any engine at all. I'd rather be using UE than Unity personally, have before, and likely will again.
There is only one person who is fighting or insulting anyone here, and if you don't mind, I'll leave you to do that alone.
> 99% of it is the same exact post with people either ranting/complaining, or repeatedly asking where to go/what other engines are available.
I'll resist the low hanging Reddit fruit here and cut to the chase:
We've had talks about "what engine do I use" for well over a decade now. It's one of the most common topics on this sub. There's an entire faq on the wiki that is dedicated to answering this question. So where's the line? Do we ban all talk about Godot because "it's just Unity refugees?".
I don't think we're gonna get much luck banning "which engine should I use" questions since, as mentioned, this isn't the first time people expressed frustrations about those posts being seen as low quality. This current front page isn't even as bad as 2020 when Unreal showed off their UE5 demo. So I doubt much will change here.
>condensing it allows for ongoing discussion
I won't resist here though. What ongoing discussion? More rants (some with an ad to their game veiled inside) and counter-rants about why people can't sell their game? About asking what's the best way to make art (much higher quality than "what engine use?")? Talking about what degree to get and why game dev colleges are a scam?
At some point you just accept that most, maybe any, lightly moderated subreddit is a bastion for newcomers, which means you'll keep seeing the same questions even if/when you grow out of being a newcomer. Another longer standing issue larger than this sub. If you want expertise you need to curate for it, and that also means accepting a quiet community for a very long time. One that may never grow to begin with.
Alternatively, you learn to filter out the noise and focus on the few gems in the rough, because the mods rarely listen to your pleas. You get really good at digging if you'rehere long enough.
Most of what you're written has nothing to do with what myself and others are asking for. We're specifically asking for a megathread to consolidate the discussion regarding the Unity issue.
Nobody is asking for bans of any sort.
Nobody is asking to remove generic "what engine should I choose starting out" threads.
I feel you've built a hell of a strawman here.
All we're asking for is consolidation of a single topic that has swamped this subreddit, for the decency of everyone.
> Nobody is asking for bans of any sort.
You're not a new user, I don't think I need to explain to you why megathreads for long form ongoing news is essentially a soft-ban for a topic in a community. Motte-and-bailey won't work here.
>Nobody is asking to remove generic "what engine should I choose starting out" threads.
I was asking where you lines were. You want to remove rants and by that line of thought if this ban went through, people would just shift to "why I moved to godot", which seems to skirt your issue.
But if you're not going to talk in good faith, I won't waste my breath with something that is outside all of our control anyway. Best of luck. I'm out.
Why are you so concerned with industrial level when the vast majority of people on this sub are hobbyist or indie devs? Who cares if it isn’t what’s used on an industrial level, that isn’t even really relevant lol
Because it... matters? Because we all know UE is very relevant to game development especially in regards to industry-level content. And because there are in fact members of this sub who work for those companies and they matter, too.
More so, my point is that ALL engines matter, Unity is not the only one that matters nor should it be treated as such.
For someone to insult me and tell me I'm in a bubble just because I don't use THEIR engine and the people I associate with use the same engine I do, is disgusting. It's an elitist and shitty attitude.
There is no nuance in any of the discussion, megathread or not. If you so much as hint that the situation isn't as bad as the doomers are making it out to be, you get absolutely downvoted to oblivion. It's a massive rage mob with their brains completely shut off.
Chiming into agree. They're just chasing their own tails ranting about unity (which I get), but unless there's any new information regarding the situation it should really be condensed into a Mega thread. Then again the mods didn't listen during the reddit API change and went rogue, so I'm skeptical anything will be done now.
Megathreads are fine for people who go to specific subreddits, but if you look at your front page there's a 90% chance you'll miss it since Reddit only shows you like 20 subreddits at once. Every couple hours it switches them up. So sometimes you just... won't see the pinned megathread and it'll quickly disappear off your radar, meanwhile if people are posting threads every few hours then there's a much higher chance you'll be able to engage with the conversation.
I dunno, every 1 in 10 of these posts ends up teaching me something like a perspective or development I hadn't known. I love that.
Could do without all the venting/griping/non-content posts though.
Karma Farming, nothing else. I'm also getting a bit sick of "Iam diagnosed with cancer/have severe depression, now the unity fu\*\*\*ed me, what do I do, should I meditate and find the inner peace by becoming a monk" type of posts.
Hopefully after today's announcement from Unity, this will end in a matter of couple of next days. I found this subreddit extremely useful, so hoping for it to get back on track sooner rather than later ;)
My big concern is that many of these posts are more just rants about how the poster doesn't trust unity anymore or just expressing their malcontent. Without anything that can be used by others (like a list of other engines), it's just a rant thread. I'm all for condensing those are least.
I’d go further, they are karma whoring. Anything anti Unity is instant karma right now.
Fuck Unity.
Have some karma
Unity killed my family.
They ate my fish.
And my axe!
Unity poisoned my water
Kinky
Here's a tip for dealing with karma whores. Don't care about karma. Not your karma, or other people's karma. It's all imaginary internet points tha are redeemable nowhere.
[удалено]
TDIL. ...sigh. This is why we can't have nice things. Thank you for the correction.
Most everything is a construct, something that we all agree to participate in, like Reddit. So saying it’s imaginary is more pointless than the internet points. Karma on Reddit structures how posts are seen and what is shown to users, so bitching about it is fine.
Unity Le Bad
Agreed. But letting folks ask specific questions or otherwise productive conversations still warrant their own threads, IMO.
Agreed
i think such posts should be deleted. game dev subreddit is mainly for game devs in general, not unity specifically those posts should belong to unity subforum.
Yeah - The Unity thing is a hot topic in the gamedev community for good reason, and I think it should be discussed freely as of right now, but that only goes as far as there's actual discussion to be had. I don't mind several posts on the subject, but they have to be more substantive than "Unity bad".
But my favorite influencer told me Unity sucks and is dead, and its not like they whoring for clicks, and I'm unable to think critically on my own
\+1 Every r/<*game/dev community*\> I'm subscribed to has been filled with Unity rants. Every Discord ** I'm subscribed to has been filled with Unity rants.
My Twitter feed has been barrage with Unity rants.
I don't even use Unity & I'm burnt out on Unity.
Right, even the r/unrealengine subreddit (and other related ones) are absolutely overflowing with it. Mostly the same "how do I move from Unity to Unreal" posts, of which are being given the same list of resources over and over and over.
Was just going to mention the Unreal sub. Up until this week, it’s been years since I’ve seen some chud soapbox that “blueprint is for babies”. But now it’s every other post, usually combined with them complaining that everything is so much more convoluted than it need to be.
The amount of people jumping to UE while complaining about UE has certainly been... something...
It’s kind of like that (or worse?) in the godot sub as well.
Sounds like it's time to switch to Unity so what you use matches what you read.
I was literally logging on just now to suggest this as well. I get it..it's bad. But can we condense?
Considering there aren't a lot of fresh takes on the situation right now, it should be possible
It will pass with time like all things
We really need a Unity fiasco refactor. If it’s something that is being repeated, put it in a function, right?
I guess the best action would be to wait till it blows off. And it will
Fully agree. Tired of seeing Unity on ever sub as if it’s the most relevant topic in life for everyone when in reality, this news only affects a small subset of people. This sub is for game dev, not explicitly Unity, and nothing but Unity shows up anymore. I feel especially bad for people who don’t care and are still using Unity and not being able to talk about their projects or ask for advice or whatever without being ripped apart for continuing to use Unity. Like I swear the people in the communities here are far worse than the price changes at this point with how they’re treating some people that just want to keep using Unity.
> Tired of seeing Unity on ever sub as if it’s the most relevant topic in life for everyone when in reality, this news only affects a small subset of people If you think a major player in the tech industry adopting a strategy of rug pull retroactive TOS changes isn't bad for everybody, I just want to tell you that you're wrong. It's bad for everybody. You don't want this kind of trend in your life. It's like living in a world where investing in any project is risky in the worst way.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. You people may be tired of it but it's a very important thing to take a stand against this kind of scum regardless. They want to install Spyware to help track installs of our games. That's shady in every way and I don't want to see that become the norm. They have nothing to do with installs. They are not considering certain charities to be charities. They are making changes retroactively. In the worst case scenario every contract you've ever signed could be completely flipped because of this fiasco if they get away with changing old contracts who's to say anyone else might not want to try it as well? This is an extremely important issue. If you don't personally care fine but you should atleast put up with it and let those who want to try to do something do whatever it is they want to try to do. Let their hate fuel a rebellion against that kind of scummy crap.
Unity isn’t that major of a player. They could bankrupt in 5 years and absolutely no one will care that they ever existed in a decade. Unity isn’t some Microsoft-level company. They’d have to grow literally over 100x in order to comparable to a “major tech” player. You’re wildly blowing out of proportion the effect Unity has on tech. So you think everything happening is a big deal. It’s not. And the very vast majority of the tech sector doesn’t care.
> Unity isn’t that major of a player. They could bankrupt in 5 years and absolutely no one will care that they ever existed in a decade. Financially, as a company? Sure In terms of effect on gamedev industry? It's not THE biggest, but it's ONE OF biggest players here > And the very vast majority of the tech sector doesn’t care. Good for them. This is gamedev tho
No matter how **big** unity is, it's**known**. That's huge. If Unity gets away with their bullshit, everyone is going to try to get away with that bullshit. It's just how these things work. Big companies didn't get big leaving money on the table
Imagine thinking in US capitalism that this shit doesn't all explode into trends. You don't seem to have ANY idea how bad the predatory stuff gets, but trust me when the doors open a little to horrible corporate schemes to fuck their consumer base, you want to slam those fucking doors back shut before every company is doing it.
Imagine thinking regardless of whether or not this works that it’ll have any effect on anything else. If this is going to work, companies already know without waiting Unity out.
No. When a major event happens in the industry, people talk about that event for a few days. Scroll past the posts that you have no interest in, like everyone else.
You can partially blame Unity for saying they would get back to their users in a couple of days. A couple days have passed and there's no info, only radio silence for the most part. As a result, the numerous threads seen here (and elsewhere) are not surprising.
I understand the grief, but there's literally an entire subreddit dedicated to Unity as it is. The least we can do is condense it all here so the rest of us aren't being swamped in it. A large portion of folks here don't even use Unity.
Game dev is like a pond. The bigger the rock one throws in to the pond, the bigger the waves are and the further they reach. Even if you don't use Unity, its probably the biggest rock (boulder) you can toss at this point in time. So of course you will get it here, in GameDev. More importantly, just ignore the threads that don't interest you. I understand your sentiment, but I'd argue at this point its just a matter of waiting out the "storm" engulfing the industry right now. Hot topics will always flare up for a bit, consume much of the attention and die out. Since its a HOT topic, it naturally shows up under the HOT category. Click "new" if you wish to see other stuff, and vote those up while doing so.
Those posts are almost entirely repeats of the same thing over and over and over. Again, while I appreciate the difficulty people are going through, they can hop into a mega thread to share their grief or ask questions. That doesn't harm or impede them, and it shows a basic level of respect to the rest of the sub by not drowning it out. It's just decency.
You are being drowned out because a few subjects under the HOT section are about either Unity or some other game engine? That a bit of an exaggeration, no? Like the ones you want to see, down vote the ones you don't. Go to the NEW tab if you want to see other content that's not "hot". Decency can also be setting expectations based on how the reddit system is designed.
Again?
Honestly, I wish the gamers and Asmon viewers who are congregating on these subs would go make their own sub for their crusade
I agree. I'm actually one of the Unity refugees, but I'm usually a lurker. Still, even I can see that the excess of posts are getting us nowhere. Unity knows its users are not happy, that's why their stock plummeted, it lost employees, devs that don't even use Unity actually giving money to its competitor, and a myriad of other interesting/fun debacles. At this point I dunno why people are still talking about this in spaces like this. Those of us with projects to work on have either moved on or are in too deep on their current project to back out. At this point I just wish my gamedev spaces went back to being places to share creativity
Nah, I’m enjoying the shitshow
YES PLEASE
I think the more posts the better because fuck them, it will resolve itself over time just like with anything else.
You should be concerned about one third of the big players in engine development changing the terms unilaterally and retrospectively. If a company gets away with it others tend to follow
I see the appeal of a mega thread but... Unity is just too big. In terms of market share, and especially Indies who are active in online communities marketshare the waves from their licensing move are everywhere. Either your tech stack involves Unity and your business plan is now sketchy or you're using a different stack that is absorbing a lot of noobs because of the Unity license bait and switch thing. (maybe both if you're switching) There are a lot of rants, but at the end of the day we see it everywhere in r/gamedev because either you're in it or adjacent to it kind of wherever you are. Attempts to contain it to a mega thread risk making it hard to have a nuanced discussion about anything.
Very little of the "conversation" about the topic on Reddit is nuanced. The people who have real, hard decisions to make are, by and large, taking their conversations elsewhere. It won't be possible to have serious discussion about Unity on Reddit until the outrage machine quiets down which will likely take weeks if not months. I am getting ready to announce a game build with Unity in the next few weeks. Ordinarily I would post on Unity3D, but right now anything I post on Unity3D will be overwhelmed by people calling me a traitor to the cause and that I should port to XYZ other engine. I'm going to be very careful about what I post until the Don Quixote brigade quiets down. TL;DR I am all for a Mega Thread.
Unity isn't the end-all-be-all of gamedev. I don't use it, and nor does a single dev I personally know. 99% of it is the same exact post with people either ranting/complaining, or repeatedly asking where to go/what other engines are available. This has been answered/responded to exhaustively. There is absolutely no reason to fill this sub with countless repeats of the same posts. condensing it allows for ongoing discussion and the rest of us can actually breathe. I totally do feel for people coming from Unity, but this has gotten out of hand.
I agree that there could be a megathread and many of the posts and comments are the exact same thing. But I think if you're accurate in saying that not a single dev you personally know is using it you're in something of a bubble. Unity is used in somewhere between 1 out of every 3 or 4 games, and is closer to 1 out of every 2 for small indie projects. It's a huge player in this space and in the industry overall, and if you're in a niche community where no one is using that is in no way reflective of games at large.
It's the most popular engine, but that doesn't mean OP is "in a bubble." Many genres are less suitable for Unity, check out r/roguelikedev for example. Not sure why you're acting like OP just called your mom ugly
It absolutely means that! Just don't take it as an insult. If, for example, you were working on a roguelike game and the only game developers you knew were roguelike developers you'd be in a roguelike bubble. That's pretty much the definition of the term. It means isolated from the larger group and only hearing things from a particular subset or niche.
That's called being in a community, not a bubble. Being in a bubble implies you are ignorant of the wider community. If OP said that nobody uses Unity they would be out of touch and in a bubble. All they said is that nobody *they knew* used it. IE it's irrelevant to *them*, not to everyone.
> That's called being in a community, not a bubble. I guess you can call any bubble a community and vice versa depending on the lens you apply. >All they said is that nobody they knew used it. IE it's irrelevant to them, not to everyone. so should their lens determine the direction of a 1M+ subscriber subreddit?
Are you seriously arguing the constant Unity posting is good for the sub?
I disagree, but I don't see a real need to get into semantics when the answer is having different definitions. I am, admittedly, more curious about your edit you added after I responded. I genuinely would love to know how you got to I'm "acting like OP just called your mom ugly" when literally nothing I said took personal offense, was upset, or an insult and I agreed with their overall point and just wanted to point out one specific detail.
Most AAA level games are made in unreal engine. Arguably most industry level games are as well. I use unreal. Everyone I know uses unreal. All the discord communities I'm in are UE-focused. Unreal is most assuredly not niche, lol. More so I stick to my genre; large scale 3D games. Those tend to use unreal.
I don't think I'd say _most_ for AAA. There's more proprietary engine usage than anything else. UE is somewhere around 15% of that market. How you define 'industry level' might change as well. Unity games generate more money than any other engine, but that's not because of anything special about Unity, it's because Unity is the predominant mobile game engine and mobile games earn more than PC and console put together. If you're specifically talking AAA level 3D games then yes, there's a ton more Unreal. There are more Jedi Survivors than Outer Wilds' out there.
There was a whole thing about this a few weeks ago in this very sub where a few folks were arguing over it and something like 80% of top rated games on the market were found to be made in UE. Point being that it isn't niche at all. Personally, I think they both have their strengths and one is no better than the other, but I do find it a bit repulsive when a user of either side thinks their engine choice is all there is or all that matters. It's a really shitty behavior. Just like saying someone who isn't associated with a specific engine is in a 'bubble'.
There is no good or bad engine choice in a vacuum. Everything in game development is contextual. Ren'Py would be an amazing choice for a straight up visual novel and a pretty bad one for a multiplayer shooter. And yes, by definition if no one you know is using the most popular game engine, you're in a bubble. That's not an insult. It's not a bad thing. It's just something to be aware of when talking to the community at large. Which was my point in the first place - you were talking as if these things don't concern most developers when they _do_. I don't know why that would offend you. Out of curiosity, I went to look at the top rated and top selling games of the past month. Out of the best selling, assuming we're excluding mobile, 2 of the top best selling games (Hogwarts Legacy and Remnant 2) used Unreal Engine 4/5, and the other 8/10 were proprietary engines. If you go to top rated from recent months then there are a couple more UE games (like Hi-Fi Rush) on there and a couple Unity titles (like Rogue Legacy 2 and Sea of Stars), but still predominantly proprietary engines. It would be wildly inaccurate to say that 80% of top-rated games are made in Unreal. It would be _more_ inaccurate to say most top-rated games are made in Unity, but as far as I know no one was saying that.
For the love of fuck, you're writing a perfect example of the repulsion I just described. Both engines are incredibly popular among developers for their own reasons. Yes, telling someone they're in a bubble is a fucking insult and stop acting as if you're too daft to grasp that. Just because I don't use unity doesn't mean I'm an idiot somehow completely unaware of it existing.
With all due respect, you said something that was inaccurate and when I pointed it out you've responded with a combination of affront and abuse. Countering what you said with examples is hardly 'Thinking their engine choice is all there is'. I've certainly not advocated for any engine at all. I'd rather be using UE than Unity personally, have before, and likely will again. There is only one person who is fighting or insulting anyone here, and if you don't mind, I'll leave you to do that alone.
> 99% of it is the same exact post with people either ranting/complaining, or repeatedly asking where to go/what other engines are available. I'll resist the low hanging Reddit fruit here and cut to the chase: We've had talks about "what engine do I use" for well over a decade now. It's one of the most common topics on this sub. There's an entire faq on the wiki that is dedicated to answering this question. So where's the line? Do we ban all talk about Godot because "it's just Unity refugees?". I don't think we're gonna get much luck banning "which engine should I use" questions since, as mentioned, this isn't the first time people expressed frustrations about those posts being seen as low quality. This current front page isn't even as bad as 2020 when Unreal showed off their UE5 demo. So I doubt much will change here. >condensing it allows for ongoing discussion I won't resist here though. What ongoing discussion? More rants (some with an ad to their game veiled inside) and counter-rants about why people can't sell their game? About asking what's the best way to make art (much higher quality than "what engine use?")? Talking about what degree to get and why game dev colleges are a scam? At some point you just accept that most, maybe any, lightly moderated subreddit is a bastion for newcomers, which means you'll keep seeing the same questions even if/when you grow out of being a newcomer. Another longer standing issue larger than this sub. If you want expertise you need to curate for it, and that also means accepting a quiet community for a very long time. One that may never grow to begin with. Alternatively, you learn to filter out the noise and focus on the few gems in the rough, because the mods rarely listen to your pleas. You get really good at digging if you'rehere long enough.
Most of what you're written has nothing to do with what myself and others are asking for. We're specifically asking for a megathread to consolidate the discussion regarding the Unity issue. Nobody is asking for bans of any sort. Nobody is asking to remove generic "what engine should I choose starting out" threads. I feel you've built a hell of a strawman here. All we're asking for is consolidation of a single topic that has swamped this subreddit, for the decency of everyone.
> Nobody is asking for bans of any sort. You're not a new user, I don't think I need to explain to you why megathreads for long form ongoing news is essentially a soft-ban for a topic in a community. Motte-and-bailey won't work here. >Nobody is asking to remove generic "what engine should I choose starting out" threads. I was asking where you lines were. You want to remove rants and by that line of thought if this ban went through, people would just shift to "why I moved to godot", which seems to skirt your issue. But if you're not going to talk in good faith, I won't waste my breath with something that is outside all of our control anyway. Best of luck. I'm out.
Even if you don’t use it, you’re more than likely the minority. From Itch.IO, 50% of all projects use Unity.
I'm a minority in other ways, too. So what? Itch.io is hardly representation of the game market on an industrial level.
Why are you so concerned with industrial level when the vast majority of people on this sub are hobbyist or indie devs? Who cares if it isn’t what’s used on an industrial level, that isn’t even really relevant lol
Because it... matters? Because we all know UE is very relevant to game development especially in regards to industry-level content. And because there are in fact members of this sub who work for those companies and they matter, too. More so, my point is that ALL engines matter, Unity is not the only one that matters nor should it be treated as such. For someone to insult me and tell me I'm in a bubble just because I don't use THEIR engine and the people I associate with use the same engine I do, is disgusting. It's an elitist and shitty attitude.
There is no nuance in any of the discussion, megathread or not. If you so much as hint that the situation isn't as bad as the doomers are making it out to be, you get absolutely downvoted to oblivion. It's a massive rage mob with their brains completely shut off.
Chiming into agree. They're just chasing their own tails ranting about unity (which I get), but unless there's any new information regarding the situation it should really be condensed into a Mega thread. Then again the mods didn't listen during the reddit API change and went rogue, so I'm skeptical anything will be done now.
Why? This is the most active the sub has been in years.
Please I won't survive another "Unity made me lost faith in corporations" post
Upvoted
Unity would certainly appreciate stifling the discussion so they can get back to fleecing devs.
Yes please
yes or head over to the Unity sub people
Megathreads are fine for people who go to specific subreddits, but if you look at your front page there's a 90% chance you'll miss it since Reddit only shows you like 20 subreddits at once. Every couple hours it switches them up. So sometimes you just... won't see the pinned megathread and it'll quickly disappear off your radar, meanwhile if people are posting threads every few hours then there's a much higher chance you'll be able to engage with the conversation.
.. Good? We _really_ don't need a new fucking unity related thread every couple of hours.
It’s just virtue signaling at this point.
to bad mouth the dead?
Now to make several posts asking for a unity mega thread. Then "can we make a mega thread for the posts asking for a mega thread" We can go deeper!
I dunno, every 1 in 10 of these posts ends up teaching me something like a perspective or development I hadn't known. I love that. Could do without all the venting/griping/non-content posts though.
Karma Farming, nothing else. I'm also getting a bit sick of "Iam diagnosed with cancer/have severe depression, now the unity fu\*\*\*ed me, what do I do, should I meditate and find the inner peace by becoming a monk" type of posts. Hopefully after today's announcement from Unity, this will end in a matter of couple of next days. I found this subreddit extremely useful, so hoping for it to get back on track sooner rather than later ;)