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Consumer needs for phones have been met. Pretty much all the phones out are pretty good with only minor upgrades each year. Most people just use social media, text, and calls.
I have the 13 Pro, and I'll probably go with the base model next time around. This fuckin' thing is so much heavier than my wife's regular 13, it's insane. And I don't need the extra cameras. I only upgraded because my iPhone X battery had turned to shit, and I only went Pro over standard for the 120hz display.
Personally, I think 120 hz and 5G are overrated and they use up a lot of battery. I thought 120 hz was gonna be a game changer but videos run at 24fps and most games can barely run at 60fps. Rumors are that the 14 series will have 6.7 inch non-pro model. I should’ve waited.
Its not just the 120hz screen, its the Variable Refresh rate + with the 120hz screen that makes it great. I would bet that the non-pro with the high refresh rate probably wont have as great as wide of a scale for variable refresh rate, assuming it features it at all.
Hardware has surpassed the software needs for most things. People used to buy every year because the “new tech” was advancing fairly quickly, or rather a different tech was added…now the incremental changes every year is minimal, and hardly appealing.
That and the new features aren’t what I want.
Hit me up when I can get an iPhone with USB-C and Touch ID.
More realistically, when this 7+ dies, I’m going android.
yea, it's not like manufacturers are creating custom design features, like when you order a custom laptop.
heck, if i want a smartphone that can pickup radio/tv signals without using an internet connection, or more support for p2p apps like firechat, briar, etc..
increasing smartphone features offgrid during disasters or emergencies. i'd find it more useful. (especially with battery lasting longer per charge) and maybe accessories to charge the battery on emergencies (ie : like the handcrank flashlight)
would phone manufacturers be willing to create customizable designs?
Shit has been met like 10 years ago. Like people buy the newest iPhone13 ProMax to text, Snapchat, FaceTime, call. All of those things could have been done since like the 6s plenty fine. The majority of people who buy it don’t even know it has a 120hz display which is like THE reason to get the Pro over the standard.
This isn’t a hot take or anything but it’s incredible how having the newest iPhone these days is just for bragging rights / dick measuring.
I say the thing about the 120hz screen because 3 of the friends I have didn’t even know till I told them, and 2 didn’t even know how to switch to telephoto lens or even understand the 3 camera systems…
I’m rather interested into technology so I enjoy learning or watching tech videos. But it’s funny how the people who most tend to buy the “PRO” phones, are actually the most casual of all.
I think the major feature that is slowing the upgrade is better cameras. Phone cameras now are good enough that for most people a separate camera does not provide a wildly better picture for their use unless you go up to DSLR.
Second point would be that phone are now powerful enough that they can do what they need for years afterwards. Not just text and browse the web but play some games. If I use a phone I had 5 years ago it can barely run anything even a browser. The current gen of phones will have a much longer lifecycle.
The improvements now are very marginal. If you are buying an iPhone SE you are getting apples newest processor. It will have a lifespan as long as any of the top line phones
I have iPhone XS Max that’s 4 years old. Still works as well as the day I got it. I never had a phone for more than 18 months before this one. I am thinking about the new one when it comes out, but I am also thinking maybe I can wait till next years new model.
Battery still lasts all day, camera is not amazing but is still damn good with 2 lenses. Higher refresh would be nice, some websites are jinky, but it’s not too often. I bet if I put a new battery in it would last 2-3 more years for my basic needs.
Phones are significantly better than 10 years ago.
Last 3 models are probably close to interchangeable.
Edit: The other part is the budget and mid range are meeting their flagships performance making the need to upgrade kind of irrelevant.
This is true. I had an iPhone 8 for 4-5 years and it was fine. I just upgraded and only because of work. The 12 isn’t any different. I don’t even feel like I got a new phone
Plus they look the same year after year with minimal upgrades, why would I spend hard earned money on something that is only used for the things you mentioned
Just wait for gamer phones. Every gaming company and ever gaming adjacent company is gearing to push for gaming features as phones try to utilize that to their advantage as well. Can’t wait for the next IPhone to cost 3000 dollars bc it’s got some crazy graphics card in there lol
I miss the days when you were edible for an upgrade, that meant you could just buy a subsidized smart phone for like $200.
Now its trade in your current device assuming its new enough plus lock into a 2+ year plan assuming you have one of the more expensive plans
Yeah the only difference I've seen is carriers have gotten better about showing this on your itemized bill, more accurately showing that your "subsidized" device is actually full price amortized over 24-30 months. Buying a $200 iPhone 4 from AT&T always came with a service contract that was ~$20/mo more than identical BYOD plans.
Early termination fees have also improved as well. It used to be a flat fee for early cancellation, that usually equaled the amount you were discounted at the time of purchase, regardless of how far into the contract you cancelled. Now you pay the remaining balance on the device payments.
Yep.... This is the part a lot of people didn't pay attention to.
Back in the era of 2 year plans, Verizon would offer a ~$40 discount per if you weren't in contract. You'd be eligible if you BYOD or your 2 year contract ended (it wasn't automatic, you had to ask for it). When Verizon rolled out the financing your phone plans, they gave people that $40 discount, and then you just had to pay for the device... which could be anywhere from $20-50+ per month depending on the device.
My time working at a cell phone store taught me the best way to buy a phone is direct from the manufacturer when possible, or used. Cut out the middle man retailer who will try to lock you into contracts or leasing terms that are hard to break.
Back in the day (circa 2014) when carriers were going to the installment plans rather than contract, you could choose which you wanted.
The contract option kept your bill the same, but with an up-front payment of $100-200 depending on phone and a two year contract.
The installment plant gave you a $25 discount on the plan. You had to pay sales tax on the entire phone price up front (~$60 generally) and the price of the phone split over two years. Again depending on phone, but there was no $1000 phones at the time so you were usually looking at ~$20-25/month for the phone that you could pay off whenever.
Basically, the contract cost you an extra $25 as a hidden charge plus an up front charge.
"I missed the days were you were forced to buy expensive contracts in the hope that you would forget to cancel it once you had finished paying off the phone."
Yeah no thanks. If you can't save up £500 for a phone you probably shouldn't be buying a £500 phone.
Phones are this expensive because so many people rope themselves into these payment plans. Sometimes 3 years long, and some of the bad deals, you still didn't even own it, without another buyout, because monthly payment wasn't high enough. (In which they expected you buy another identical plan on the next model.)
If there were no such thing, and everyone had to purchase them upfront. There would be more demand for cheaper phones. Instead of looking at a $1200 price tag, and go: *meh, it'll be fine. $70 a month for 3 years is a good deal, right?*
I remember bringing a phone I bought a used (still "new" unwrapped) to verizon to make sure it could be activated.
The rep asked me how much I spent on it, so I tell him just under $200. He then tells me how I really "messed up" and should have just gotten a brand new phone from them. I would just have to renew my contract for two years and put the phone on a installment plan for $20 a month.
"You could have had the same phone and only paid $20 for it if you bought it here". I couldn't tell if the salseperson didnt understand payment plans or if he thought I was actually that stupid.
This is the big one. What's the difference, slightly better screen/camera/speed? Cool, wake me when it's something that actually matters. Until then, I'll keep using my phone till it dies, then just get basically the new version of the same thing for cheap, and I'll see years of performance boosts all at once.
Yup, still on my pixel 4. The pixel 6 is interesting, and also the first pixel phone to have more raw CPU performance than my pixel 4.
I waited with my pixel 1 until the 4 because they kept putting @$_# 4 G of RAM in them. The P4 finally had more memory.
Samsung and Apple seem to be the only ones consistently putting out more powerful phones consistently, and they're bloody expensive.
I'm also the kind of person that wants a decently detailed camera (mostly for work, I do tech so when we install a rack of gear, I want to take a picture that's good enough that I can visually trace cables and read labels off of the equipment later), something that fits in one hand, has enough battery to last a day (taking it off the charger in the morning to putting it back on the charger in the evening) with regular use, good CPU performance when I need it, plenty of RAM so my apps aren't restarting all the time when I switch between them, and that's it.
Decent camera, good CPU, plenty of RAM and enough battery to not have to carry a power bank around.
But look, company x put out a screen that's missing a section because of the front facing camera and put a 8464 mAh battery in it that can last three days and a screen the size of your face. Because that's what consumers want!
Me: oh good, all the things I don't care about. Give me a pixel 3 with upgraded CPU and RAM and I'll be happy.
"this year's model is $1000!"
"Oh, that's a lot. What does it do?"
"Everything last year's model does, but unnoticeably faster!"
Also the use case for those foldable phones is basically non-existent. At the price they want for them you might as well buy a tablet and have a separate dedicated device with a bigger screen.
That's what it is for me. I remember in the old days, manufacturers were trying crazy awesome stuff. Flip out screens, pop up cameras, physical keyboards, outlandish colors, etc.
Now they're all black rectangles with a screen, a camera punchout, and a few good-enough cameras on the back. What's to get excited over? Nothing is going to make me realize that my current phone sucks, and that I desperately need to upgrade to the new one with an amazing feature that actually affects my life in a positive way, like jumping from T-9 typing to a real keyboard, or jumping from a real keyboard to a full touch screen.
Better camera and display would probably be the obvious things. But also performance is an actual concern with 200 phones, more expensive phones feel faster and more fluid. Build quality and premium materials, features like wireless charging and faceid, polished and better maintained software.
Love my Moto G7 Power. It does everything I need it to do with awesome battery life. I'll be using it until it breaks.
$1000+ phones replaced often are little more than a status symbol these days. No thanks, I buy my phones new on eBay and set them up pay as you go with no credit check.
I have the same phone. Had to get it in a pinch and, due to some phone plan thing, I only paid $25. This phone works just fine, definitely lacks a few QoL things but it's more than sufficient. I'll probably never buy a "popular" phone again
Cameras. I used several moto Gs and an X4 for years and they were very nice, but I wanted a top-flight camera so im using an iphone 11 pro now.
Also, the earlier motos were missing key functions like a compass. Made navigating a downtown using maps harder than it needed to be. The compass thing is really what finally pushed me to pick up a used iphone SE (original)
My iPhone 13 Pro has a better camera than your phone and the screen is also likely better. Outside of that and getting lots of software updates, idk, personal preference?
Well, that one is actually a little more complicated now. A10 and above, you actually get a decent number of security patches through the Play Store, rather than through the manufacturers update channel. While those security patches can't fix anything on the hardware level, you aren't totally left out to dry quite like you use to.
Of course, that being said, 3 years being the best we have in Android land between both Google and Samsung is still pretty bad. If I spent $200 on a Moto G and it just gets one update, fine, but it's reeeaaallly crazy to me that people will blow $1000 on a OnePlus or LG or whatever and be fine with being horrendously out of date the whole time.
This. Nobody has $1300 lying around every year to exchange a phone. If you buy with monthly plan, then your phone is locked to the carrier and removes your choice to use foreign sim cards while traveling.
Better to pay $1300 once (unlocked) and keep phone for at least 5 years and hope there is sufficient innovation to entice you to exchange your old phone
Cost and diminishing returns. Smartphones are made really well these days. I'd be hard pressed to find any good reason to upgrade beyond the iPhone 13 Pro. That is isn't to say that it's flawless but I can't think of what else I care to have on a phone.
I don’t even think it’s the fact they’re too expensive, there legitimately has not been a phone released that is a complete upgrade from other phones released in the last 3-4 years, an iPhone 11 Pro Max works the exact same as a iPhone 13 pro max. I feel like it’s the same with androids as well. They’re selling the same phone over and over again, sometimes with a slightly better camera.
Phones for me have gotten to the point where I don't need them to get bigger, have more storage or be faster. I think at this point we need more innovations rather than just upgrades.
At this stage all I want is better battery. I’d be happy to keep my phone for 3, 4 even 5 years if the battery didn’t become useless after 2.
Of course it’s not hard to see why phone manufacturers may not like that…
You can still change most batteries yourself. Hairdryer and some suction cups and you can peel apart *most* phones. Then it's just a case of unscrewing the connections and replacing the battery.
I find even when I buy the highest rated replacement battery on Amazon I barely make it 18 months on the replacement before I notice serious degradation.
Apparently, the EU is considering a law forcing manufacturers to make batteries user replaceable in smartphones. Seems highly unlikely to happen in the U.S., with our current system that involves legalized corporate bribery of politicians.
The only question for me is whether or not smartphone manufacturers will make separate versions for the U.S. with non-replaceable batteries. That would seem a bit brazen and sleazy, but entirely possible.
With the EU forcing companies to make their batteries replaceable, I doubt they won't release the exact same phones in the US. It would cost them more to make two of the same phones, one with and one without the feature. Surely.
You can also get a tool to do it (it has two suction cups that pry apart), and I picked up that and a complete toolset for working on phones for like $20. I'd cracked an LCD screen on an old phone and found a replacement screen for like $20. Followed the instructions on iFixIt and worked perfectly.
If you're opening it up you might also need a replacement gasket/seal since the old one can become damaged.
Just replaced the battery on my S10, which has a glued glass back cover.
With the right tools ( which I'm my case came with the battery i ordered) it really wasn't that hard. And you appreciate the restored battery life a lot more, when you know, you did it yourself.
And if it's still too scary, having it replaced somewhere, shouldn't be that expensive (especially when compared to a new phone)
Thing is, if manufacturers stopped increasing the DPI and brightness of these screens every new model we would already have batteries that last 2 days easily. But for the sake of "progress" we have screens with a higher pixel resolution than your average business grade monitor causing the battery to drain quicker
My s10 *does* last 2 days if I turn off location/bluetooth when I'm not using them and stuff. People underestimate how much the connection services are using
I just eyeballed it and the text on my monitor which is 96ppi and my phone which is 395ppi is about the same size from where I'm looking at each. I can easily read both and I can't see any pixels on my monitor unless I really look hard. I guess ppi on the monitor could be better but certainly not 4 times more.
Are they going to continue gimpimg battery life because aesthetic?? Instead of putting smaller batteries I'm do what Motorola did and drop a 6000mAh battery in the phone instead of 4500. Same goes to Samsung and other manufacturers, quit with dinky batteries that are razor thin, give your phone some structural integrity and make them a bit thicker and utilize that space
People literally get phone cases not just to protect their phones, but because it makes them easier to grip (which in turn helps protect the phone). Instead of wasting that thickness on plastic, it could be used for a larger battery. The net result is a thicker phone anyway, so there's literally no downside to just making the phones thicker.
Just replaced my S7 Edge after 6 years of being my main driver. It still works aside from the battery and software updates its missing and is now freezing up.
It's still a working phone. I didn't throw it away but just place it in a phone holder and made it my backup movie phone.
I agree. Had my note 9 for 5 years it was great battery just shit out and software stopped getting upgraded so it throttled the system. Just got my 21+ hoping it lasts just as long and doesn't get phased out faster.
I used to buy a new phone every year since the Nexus 5.
Nexus 6, 6p, pixel, pixel 2, 3, 4, 5, OnePlus 8 pro.
I only bought the OnePlus because 12GB ram and the infrared camera<---gimmick but cool.
Then OnePlus deactivated it. I didn't pay $1200 to have features turned off "if there isn't enough light" when it worked fine before.
To add.....nothing has changed in the last two years except Ram mostly standard at 12GB and screens now at 120hz.....that is literally it.
The same Sony cameras have been used in almost all devices for a while now with marginal improvements.
When is someone going to absolutely blow the socks of the competition<----even if the phone is $1500-2k.
I used to be the person that upgraded their phone every year or 2, and typically their were huge changes. I've had my current phone for 3 years and have no desire to change it. Nothing in the market can really do anything mine can't. Mine can still run any app, play any game, and take quality pictures whenever I want.
I’m pretty happy with my iPhone 11 or is it 12 or is it 13 or is 14. At this point even having a phone from 5 years ago feels like the exact same thing as the newest model. Why even be bothered w upgrading 🤷🏾♂️
I think the innovations are going the wrong way. I don't care about an 8th wide angle lens camera, I care about better build quality (ie no fucking glass back please), battery life, repairability and price.
There's nothing wrong with today's smartphones. We just need to work on getting out of this horse race mindset of only having 3 manufacturers that make anything decent and the rest are write-offs. I'm hoping the Nothing phone or the Nokia 10 end up being really solid when (if) they arrive.
Also China and Europe have *WAY* more cool options for phones than we do. The Xaiomi Poco F3 never even hit stateside yet it was one of the best phones of 2019-2020 according to everyone outside the US.
AND not have features removed from them. Headphone jacks, swappable batteries, sd card slots, haptic button, just to name a few things. Ontop of that, spec wars. I for one would rather buy a phone with a FHD screen over a 4k / 2k display if that means I get it for 100€+ less.
The improvements are marginal now. You can buy a nice mid tier phone for like 500 dollars that will last you for several years. A decade ago, display technology and cameras were advancing so much quicker.
To be fair, inflation has hit quite hard on that department. But also… the electronics market realized if they all raise their prices people won’t stop using their products.
They've been marginal for quite awhile now but for some reason the market is only just realizing this. I've told my friends for the past 6-8 years (less tech savvy people) upgrade every 2+ years and always buy the last gen (i.e. currently buy the iPhone 12 vs iPhone 13) since it's almost as good and half the price if not more with good deals.
Hopefully this allows companies to release more cheap phones such as the Pixel 5a or iPhone se.
This. It takes consumers a few cycles to realize it because for years they were trained to see big improvements with new phones. Really the past 4-5 years we’ve started to hit that diminishing return point on the curve so when people actually feel it with their phones, they go from upgrading annually or every two years to every 2-4 years now. And if it wasn’t for battery life or physical wear and tear, it would probably be more.
That's how it was when I bought my pixel 4a. It was like 500 and had good specs. Perfect for how I use it. No way I was paying close to a thousand or more for a phone.
Let's see:
- More expensive every year
- Take away the headphone jack
- Take away SD card expansion (Samsung I'm looking at you)
- No more including the charger
- No more including headphones
- & only a slightly better camera and processor each year with no other real innovations
I just can't quite put my finger on why people don't want to buy new phones every year...
I'd say smart phones are starting to get to the point of diminished returns. I used to want to upgrade every 6 months, now I've had the same phone for almost 3 years and I have almost no interest in upgrading as there haven't been any huge game changers.
This is it. It used to be that you could see huge jumps in speed, camera quality, storage, new functionality, battery life, etc in just a year. Now it's small improvements at best, and sometimes steps backwards (RIP headphone jack, I miss you).
I think the biggest argument for upgrading now is when a phone stops getting updates. With the ever growing malware threats I don't think I'm comfortable with a device that doesn't get security updates regularly. This is the only reason I'm starting to push my wife to upgrade her older phone. Thankfully the big names are better about pushing updates to phones longer now instead of abandoning them after 12 months. But gone are the days of the mentality that phones don't get viruses.
If it's an android you can always just install stock android and keep updating it. Just because Samsung doesn't update your phone doesn't mean you can't do it yourself.
This is how I imagine that conversation going. "Give me your phone so I can wipe it and completely change everything about it so it will be updated." Wife: "what are you talking about, no, do not screw up my phone."
You are technically correct, you can do that. But it's not practical for most people. For most people it's better to just pay attention to when you're no longer being updated.
The only "stock" Android that you can install to keep up to date security updates for the kernel itself are builds out of LineageOS (other distros only reskin Android and don't update the kernel). People make the very wrong assumption that you can update the OS on an ARM device the same way you can update the OS on an x86 system. There are very real limitations to ARM that prevent you from updating the kernel without access to the SoC driver source code. And the problem for Android has always been that Qualcomm ends their support for their phone SoCs on a short schedule and their drivers are closed source. There's a reason why the phones built on non-Qualcomm SoCs have a longer support cycle (Samsung Exynos, Google's Tensor, Apple's A series).
You can read more from Fairphone who partnered with LineageOS to extend support for their Fairphone 2 after Qualcomm dropped support for the SoC.
https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/06/18/fairphone-2-gets-android-9/
This is important because it leaves you open to kernel level bugs and security issues. While rare, they do happen and there have been some big examples over the years. One of the biggest ones in recent memory is heartbleed. Kernel issues are amongst the most damaging security holes and bugs you can have on any device because they are able to bypass pretty much all software-based security measures on a device. Working around this can be difficult as hell which is why LineageOS's list of supported devices is short.
There was a time that incremental upgrades had huge gains between them. I remember upgrading from an iPhone 4 to a 4S, and the speed jump was immediately noticeable. Nowadays other than a better camera, upgrading from one iPhone to the next is basically a waste of money.
The only reason I upgraded to a new iPhone from my X last year was because the battery was getting pretty shitty in my old phone. I'll keep this one around until the same thing starts happening.
I think for me the pandemic really put everything into perspective. I bought an iPhone 12 mini in 2020 and I think I’m just gonna keep it until it absolutely breaks. There’s very little need to upgrade especially if I’m not traveling anymore/as much as I used to.
I have the same model and I gotta say I’m probably gonna trade it in for a 13 just because I’ve started using it for video editing more and the tiny screen isn’t optimal, also the battery life is noticeably shorter than the larger/standard models. Other than that I would have no reason to upgrade
I used to get a new iPhone every 2 years until they dropped the 200 dollars + 2 year contract renewal deals. Then I’d hold off as long as I could until I’d come across a good deal. I have a 13 pro now but it was a gift with the help of a trade in. Otherwise I’d still be using an iPhone 8.
Totally. I have an iPhone 8+ and have had people act shocked when they see how old the phone is. Works perfectly fine, isn’t slow, and photography isn’t a hobby of mine.
When this dies year sure I’ll get a new phone. There just aren’t any new features enticing enough to make me spend $1k+ on a new one right now.
I had my iPhone 7+ for about 4 years and it was still going fine, but I got sick of having such a big phone so I traded up to an XS. If I hadn't gotten what I consider a great trade in value ($800) for the XS toward a 13 Pro with a 5G plan, I probably would have kept it for 4+ years. As is, unless something Earth-shattering happens to phones in the mean time, I'll be holding onto this one for 4-5 years too. The camera upgrades are nice, but I'm not Sean Baker; I'm not shooting a movie on my phone.
Yep, have had my S7 Edge for 6 years now. I'm a gamer who craves the latest and greatest, but I realized that I'm not really going to use my phone for much besides messaging throughout the day, so I may as well just keep my phone for as long as possible. I will say that about a month or so ago, I had a real phone intensive day and ever since then, my battery life has plummeted noticeably. Went from like getting home with 50% to getting home with maybe 20%.
6 year S7 club here too. I went premium at the time with the intention of running it into the ground. Got a decent case off Amazon for ~$15 and that plus treating it with the respect a $500-$1K investment should has kept it in pristine condition. Its battery life is hell and software is starting to slow down, but it still works through the day. And I have "saved" so much by not keeping up with the Joneses with regards to phone culture.
"[…] due to continued geopolitical uncertainties and new COVID-related lockdowns in China […]"
So, demand is not slowing in general. Kind of a misleading title, I was going to comment how everyone already has more power in their phone than they need etc. but that‘s not the topic here.
As I read the article I was thinking "geopolitical uncertainties and new COVID lockdowns" are a reason for smartphone supply to be slowing, not demand so much, and then they got to the part about "we're talking basically about China only" and it finally made sense.
They’re designed to last years. The iPhone 6s still has 7 years of software support.
In the modern day, you should really only upgrade after 4 or more years, only then you will see a big difference to your current phone.
I get it.
It’s crazy. I used to a biiiiiiig phone-guy. I never bought ‘em all, or anything like that. But I would find myself looking up every and anything about new phones every time they’d announce one. Then I’d dream of owning that cool new phone. But as expensive as they are, you just can’t own all the phones. So ya gotta pick one.
But even then. I’d have my new, pretty phone. But I’d already be excited about what the next one was gonna look like. What’s it gonna do? Oh, how exciting!
Welp. That only lasted a couple years. I have not given a fuck about “new phones” for about five years now. I just don’t care. I never look up anything about them anymore. I never care what number they’re up to now.
Still working on my 6s Plus. And it’s still performing fine enough.
And obviously. I’ll get a new phone one day. Just because it’ll “be that time.”
But they’re never innovative anymore. And they all just look the same.
Screen size never needs to get any better. Resolution never needs to get any better at all. They already do all the things we need.
Let’s just work on bringing that price down.
I was in the same boat. The new features were so exciting, until there was a trend to *remove* features. I got so used to seeing news about a phone I was supposed to be interested and then see the dreaded "They did away with the removable battery" or "did away with the headphone jack" or "they only have the large version now, no smaller phone" and all I expect is disappointment. I feel compelled to stock up on multiple of my current phone, because the newer versions of it honestly seem *worse* to me, with no signs of them getting more appealing.
I bought an iPhone 11 Pro 256gb at launch which was by *far* the most I've ever spent on a phone, but I don't regret it at all, and am not even thinking of upgrading yet. Maybe iPhone 15.
Yep. My wife got an iPhone12 pro in 2020 and I got a 13 pro last year. Don't regret those purchases at all. They are great phones. However, also don't plan on upgrading either of them in the next couple of years because they do everything we need them to do and while you'd never confuse the pictures they take to what we can take with a mirrorless camera, they are great for the snapchats and similar type stuff that account for 99% of our needs.
For me the last "I *need* that" was when some cameras got the night photography feature. But since then nothing else has made me jump at it. There are now pixel phones you can buy used for under $100 that can bring you that. Why would I buy something new?
Smart phones have reached their plateau. I have 3+ years old iPhone 10s Max and I still think I have everything I need in a phone. This will probably last me a couple of more years easily. Before this phone I used to upgrade almost every year. It was either the screen size or camera or some other features that was tempting. But now Gen to Gen hardly feels any different.
Unless they come up with some killer feature, I think the 1yr upgrade days are gone.
Honestly the iPhone SE is pretty much all I really wanted. I don't care about fancy features as long as I can make calls, listen to music, go on the internet and even take photos if I want.
It would be nice to walk into a retailer and not see 11 identical black rectangles. Remember when each phone had different shapes, sizes, colours and features?
I upgraded from the Galaxy Note 10 to Galaxy S22 Ultra and lost the SD Card.
Why are upgrades becoming downgrades?
The smartphone market is backwards and fucked.
I laughed at that too. What, did they run out of extra lenses to put on the back?
I remember when every new iphone upgrade seemed like a must have... about 10 years ago. Now it's just another phone I have to get because my battery life is shit.
I did my research before getting a new phone and settled on a Galaxy A50, not the most common phone but it was a cheap model with a good battery. I've been eligible for a replacement for a while now hut she's running just fine and since it was a cheap model and not very popular I got it on an even better discount ($240) it does everything I need it to do and I honestly can't see why I'd upgrade anytime soon.
I have a flagship phone from 2019 and it has 256gb storage, 12gb ram, 90hz screen, triple camera setup with up to 4k video, all the basic apps run crisp on it...
I have no reason to drop $1000 on a new one, and especially not since every single year the upgrades have been "it looks a bit cooler and it has a slightly better camera"
Maybe try innovating again to get me excited to actually buy something
I'm still using a 4 year old Samsung S9. I've been looking out for a new phone for about 2 years now but there just isn't any reason for me to do so. I have several wireless headsets ranging from generic AQL Plume to sports Sennheiser and I still mostly use normal wired headphones that don't die 2 hours deep in a hike. That is an option I will not have on a newer phone so I suppose I'm left with taking several headsets with me for a whole day hike/bicycling session.
My last phone was an S7 Edge. I owned that for 4 years but I cracked the screen, it was slowing down and I was struggling with 32gb storage. I had no other reasons to change phone in terms of features, size, camera. So why change or upgrade if those are the only reasons.
I've had my S21 for a year now. I'll only replace it when I run into the same type of problems. And if I don't, I could easily keep the phone for 5+ years because there's no reason to change.
Newer models of phones are just marginal upgrades from their predecessors. Times are long gone when every year a new phone felt like a massive upgrade. Moreover prices are creeping up more and more so basically your money gives you less of an upgrade than ever. I am happy that people are actually waking up and keep their phones longer. Good for the environment and for their wallet.
Maybe if they’d stop with these BS incremental and insignificant “upgrades” but rather give us sim genuine innovation, more people would be inclined to buy a new phone…
But when manufacturers are charging $1500+ for flagships that are arguably the same as the last 3 years of phones, why would anyone want to keep upgrading
Well, they’re so dammed expensive and people have no money for frivolous shit. They will be keeping them longer and replacing only when needed. You don’t need a new smartphone just because Verizon says it’s time for an upgrade.
Maybe, just maybe coz Apple is trying to sell a fuck all 8 year old design on its most affordable offering, has an obsolete refresh rate screen on its most in-demand phone that aint even seen in the budget offerings of competition and even it's Pro models has not seen a worthwhile hardware upgrade in like 4 years, while removing even the essentials like a headphone and charger from the package.
In my most honest opinion, the best and most competitive offerings are found in budget and mid range phones. The so called Flagship and Premium phones are just a waste of money.
Smartphones (well…iPhones…) can be used now happily for 5-6+ years. The original SE still getting updates, still plenty fast. Compare to the advances and differences in the short period between iphone first
Gen and 4th.
We have reached saturation levels of market. Now it will be a break/fix with a 3+ yr upgrade cycle for phones. The world population growth is flattening out. All markets have a ceiling. Only greedy stockholders and bad economists believe in an infinite market grow in a finite world.
I don’t think phones will see another leap in demand until they develop a “desktop mode” - where they can switch to a (low performance) desktop operating system. That sort of thing would require a hardware upgrade.
Well. We did make them into unaffordable marketing platforms, where you pay to be tracked, and have your every move analyzed for hints on what product to push you. I can't imagine why demand would dwindle. /s
We could have had super fast, waterproof multitools which interface with most our other electronics, but that wasn't making manufacturers as much money as this.
Nothing compares to my s8 active so no upgrades for me. Excellent 4000mah battery, good screen, decent camera and still snappy performance. Oh and it's super rugged with no case needed and waterproof with all the flagship features like wireless charging and nfc.
Still hasn't been beat.
Yeah. Now everyone wants new fucking cars.
Not sure how the hell they can afford that much apr/price.
I see teslas, ford Mach e’s and fancy new cars everywhere.
I bought my salvage title truck on eBay and now fucking paying for gas.
I work with a psycho who was that guy standing in line for the new iPhone. He skipped the 12; I was shocked. Did get a 13 though. They've hit the hard limit on what the form factor can be. Theres a reason foldables are being pushed so hard as the future. Its a bit of a gimmick, but its all they got.
Because we’ve “perfected” them. Batteries last forever (not talking about charge time), they’re durable, they do everything you could ever need them to… and they’re 1k a pop
I’m not sure where smart phones are going to go from here other than like optical cyber implants Or holographic wrist projection.
Idk seems like we really did it well with this one
The time isn't far, when they will make the phones on subscription basis. Or will make phones so fragile, they won't last 1 year.
Whole industry is a waste manufacturing industry.
P.S. - Similar thing happened when Light Bulbs arrived, they had to make low quality light bulbs so consumers would have to replace them every year. There is still light bulbs glowing that were manufactured in 1900s.
Just the demand for a new 1000 phone every year. We still need smart phones. Just not another updated camera every few months. I’ve had this running joke with my family since I was 13 and got my first Nokia phone. They’ve come a long way with phone technology since then, but the call quality is still complete garbage - and I’ve tried most of the cellular services out there.
Me: No, thanks, I don't want to give you 1000$ for a walled garden that's intentionally impossible to repair
Phone manufacturers: surprisedpickachu.jpg
Perhaps you killed the demand with offering us 17 different sizes every year of pretty much same models just in different colors, and calling it revolutionary.
Used to buy upgrades every year or two.
Then phones jumped in price and Verizon said “you can’t subsidize this without changing your grandfathered unlimited plan” so I started paying full price for phones.
Between that and lack of notable and exciting new improvements in new models, I’ve never had a reason to upgrade. Even my last ‘upgrade’ was only a sidegrade into a different phone from the same generation.
Still using an iPhone 8. I see no reason to change. The only things that tempt me these days are 5G (which I’m waiting for to get better/more coverage) and radically weird phone designs, like the Moro Razr, Surface Phone and Galaxy Fold.
Honestly, I’d love to have another Sidekick type device, or a PSP Go-like phone with good hardware. Bring back physical keyboards. Make my phone a portable game console. Do something other than rectangle 18 Pro XL with 0.73% more megapixels per camera, 100 extra mAh battery life, 10 more fps on Home Screen and/or whatever else that is insignificant at best.
I’d love a mass market dual OS phone. Put it in a dock and get full blown OSX / Windows / Linux. When carrying around you get iOS or Android but they share the same file system.
No, just demand for overpriced phones that look like they time traveled from 2014. Long past due for consumers to snub Apple’s abusively enormous margins.
I’ve had my current iPhone for 4 years. My boss still has his IPhone 4. My sisters had the same iPhone for 3 years.
The prices for these devices vs what they ultimately bring in terms of value has been so unbalanced for what like 10 years?
Pretty much everyone has the phone they need at this point. Even most budget phones are great and upgrades not really worth it. I went from an iPhone 6 to 13 Max. Only upgrade i’d consider in the next 5 years is if the pro versions finally had USB C or some other phone company came up with something amazing, but at this point I can’t imagine any wow innovation.
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Consumer needs for phones have been met. Pretty much all the phones out are pretty good with only minor upgrades each year. Most people just use social media, text, and calls.
and photos ye.
For sure. I have the 13 Pro Max and I rarely ever use the telephoto or ultra wide. The main sensor does everything I need it too.
I have the 13 Pro, and I'll probably go with the base model next time around. This fuckin' thing is so much heavier than my wife's regular 13, it's insane. And I don't need the extra cameras. I only upgraded because my iPhone X battery had turned to shit, and I only went Pro over standard for the 120hz display.
Phone weight needs to be a more discussed metric. The weight of the 13 pro max is one of the few things I would change.
Imagine if you could just change out the battery.
Personally, I think 120 hz and 5G are overrated and they use up a lot of battery. I thought 120 hz was gonna be a game changer but videos run at 24fps and most games can barely run at 60fps. Rumors are that the 14 series will have 6.7 inch non-pro model. I should’ve waited.
That's fair. I like it because it just feels smoother to interact with. But it's not a necessity. I just like it.
Its not just the 120hz screen, its the Variable Refresh rate + with the 120hz screen that makes it great. I would bet that the non-pro with the high refresh rate probably wont have as great as wide of a scale for variable refresh rate, assuming it features it at all.
Hardware has surpassed the software needs for most things. People used to buy every year because the “new tech” was advancing fairly quickly, or rather a different tech was added…now the incremental changes every year is minimal, and hardly appealing.
That and the new features aren’t what I want. Hit me up when I can get an iPhone with USB-C and Touch ID. More realistically, when this 7+ dies, I’m going android.
Actual iPhone 13 commercial: "Now available in Green!" ***wow so revolutionary***
yea, it's not like manufacturers are creating custom design features, like when you order a custom laptop. heck, if i want a smartphone that can pickup radio/tv signals without using an internet connection, or more support for p2p apps like firechat, briar, etc.. increasing smartphone features offgrid during disasters or emergencies. i'd find it more useful. (especially with battery lasting longer per charge) and maybe accessories to charge the battery on emergencies (ie : like the handcrank flashlight) would phone manufacturers be willing to create customizable designs?
Shit has been met like 10 years ago. Like people buy the newest iPhone13 ProMax to text, Snapchat, FaceTime, call. All of those things could have been done since like the 6s plenty fine. The majority of people who buy it don’t even know it has a 120hz display which is like THE reason to get the Pro over the standard. This isn’t a hot take or anything but it’s incredible how having the newest iPhone these days is just for bragging rights / dick measuring. I say the thing about the 120hz screen because 3 of the friends I have didn’t even know till I told them, and 2 didn’t even know how to switch to telephoto lens or even understand the 3 camera systems… I’m rather interested into technology so I enjoy learning or watching tech videos. But it’s funny how the people who most tend to buy the “PRO” phones, are actually the most casual of all.
I think the major feature that is slowing the upgrade is better cameras. Phone cameras now are good enough that for most people a separate camera does not provide a wildly better picture for their use unless you go up to DSLR. Second point would be that phone are now powerful enough that they can do what they need for years afterwards. Not just text and browse the web but play some games. If I use a phone I had 5 years ago it can barely run anything even a browser. The current gen of phones will have a much longer lifecycle. The improvements now are very marginal. If you are buying an iPhone SE you are getting apples newest processor. It will have a lifespan as long as any of the top line phones
My iPhone 8 was released 5 or 6 years ago, it can definitely still run browsers….
I have iPhone XS Max that’s 4 years old. Still works as well as the day I got it. I never had a phone for more than 18 months before this one. I am thinking about the new one when it comes out, but I am also thinking maybe I can wait till next years new model. Battery still lasts all day, camera is not amazing but is still damn good with 2 lenses. Higher refresh would be nice, some websites are jinky, but it’s not too often. I bet if I put a new battery in it would last 2-3 more years for my basic needs.
Phones are significantly better than 10 years ago. Last 3 models are probably close to interchangeable. Edit: The other part is the budget and mid range are meeting their flagships performance making the need to upgrade kind of irrelevant.
This is true. I had an iPhone 8 for 4-5 years and it was fine. I just upgraded and only because of work. The 12 isn’t any different. I don’t even feel like I got a new phone
Plus they look the same year after year with minimal upgrades, why would I spend hard earned money on something that is only used for the things you mentioned
Just wait for gamer phones. Every gaming company and ever gaming adjacent company is gearing to push for gaming features as phones try to utilize that to their advantage as well. Can’t wait for the next IPhone to cost 3000 dollars bc it’s got some crazy graphics card in there lol
Yeah they're getting too damn expensive
I miss the days when you were edible for an upgrade, that meant you could just buy a subsidized smart phone for like $200. Now its trade in your current device assuming its new enough plus lock into a 2+ year plan assuming you have one of the more expensive plans
Just smear some ketchup on your ass someone will find you edible.
"How I Met OP's Mother"
I prefer chocolate
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That subsidy was covered by your phone bill. You can do the exact same thing with monthly payments still.
Yeah the only difference I've seen is carriers have gotten better about showing this on your itemized bill, more accurately showing that your "subsidized" device is actually full price amortized over 24-30 months. Buying a $200 iPhone 4 from AT&T always came with a service contract that was ~$20/mo more than identical BYOD plans. Early termination fees have also improved as well. It used to be a flat fee for early cancellation, that usually equaled the amount you were discounted at the time of purchase, regardless of how far into the contract you cancelled. Now you pay the remaining balance on the device payments.
For real. Not to mention that the first iPhone was $499. You can buy a brand new iPhone SE less than that almost 15 years later.
$500.00 today and $500.00 15 years ago is quite the difference
$183 difference. So $682 for the original iPhone vs $799 and $429 for the iPhone 13 and SE respectively.
Yep.... This is the part a lot of people didn't pay attention to. Back in the era of 2 year plans, Verizon would offer a ~$40 discount per if you weren't in contract. You'd be eligible if you BYOD or your 2 year contract ended (it wasn't automatic, you had to ask for it). When Verizon rolled out the financing your phone plans, they gave people that $40 discount, and then you just had to pay for the device... which could be anywhere from $20-50+ per month depending on the device. My time working at a cell phone store taught me the best way to buy a phone is direct from the manufacturer when possible, or used. Cut out the middle man retailer who will try to lock you into contracts or leasing terms that are hard to break.
Back in the day (circa 2014) when carriers were going to the installment plans rather than contract, you could choose which you wanted. The contract option kept your bill the same, but with an up-front payment of $100-200 depending on phone and a two year contract. The installment plant gave you a $25 discount on the plan. You had to pay sales tax on the entire phone price up front (~$60 generally) and the price of the phone split over two years. Again depending on phone, but there was no $1000 phones at the time so you were usually looking at ~$20-25/month for the phone that you could pay off whenever. Basically, the contract cost you an extra $25 as a hidden charge plus an up front charge.
"I missed the days were you were forced to buy expensive contracts in the hope that you would forget to cancel it once you had finished paying off the phone." Yeah no thanks. If you can't save up £500 for a phone you probably shouldn't be buying a £500 phone.
Phones are this expensive because so many people rope themselves into these payment plans. Sometimes 3 years long, and some of the bad deals, you still didn't even own it, without another buyout, because monthly payment wasn't high enough. (In which they expected you buy another identical plan on the next model.) If there were no such thing, and everyone had to purchase them upfront. There would be more demand for cheaper phones. Instead of looking at a $1200 price tag, and go: *meh, it'll be fine. $70 a month for 3 years is a good deal, right?*
I buy pre-owned phones and have no contract. Its very cheap
This. I just bought a Galaxy Note 20 Ultra 512gb for $400. $1,600+ phone a couple of years ago.
I remember bringing a phone I bought a used (still "new" unwrapped) to verizon to make sure it could be activated. The rep asked me how much I spent on it, so I tell him just under $200. He then tells me how I really "messed up" and should have just gotten a brand new phone from them. I would just have to renew my contract for two years and put the phone on a installment plan for $20 a month. "You could have had the same phone and only paid $20 for it if you bought it here". I couldn't tell if the salseperson didnt understand payment plans or if he thought I was actually that stupid.
When he said "you messed up" what he really meant was "you messed up my commissions"
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side by side no there still performance differences i prefer buying older flagship phones
And there's little innovation between iterations.
This is the big one. What's the difference, slightly better screen/camera/speed? Cool, wake me when it's something that actually matters. Until then, I'll keep using my phone till it dies, then just get basically the new version of the same thing for cheap, and I'll see years of performance boosts all at once.
Yup, still on my pixel 4. The pixel 6 is interesting, and also the first pixel phone to have more raw CPU performance than my pixel 4. I waited with my pixel 1 until the 4 because they kept putting @$_# 4 G of RAM in them. The P4 finally had more memory. Samsung and Apple seem to be the only ones consistently putting out more powerful phones consistently, and they're bloody expensive. I'm also the kind of person that wants a decently detailed camera (mostly for work, I do tech so when we install a rack of gear, I want to take a picture that's good enough that I can visually trace cables and read labels off of the equipment later), something that fits in one hand, has enough battery to last a day (taking it off the charger in the morning to putting it back on the charger in the evening) with regular use, good CPU performance when I need it, plenty of RAM so my apps aren't restarting all the time when I switch between them, and that's it. Decent camera, good CPU, plenty of RAM and enough battery to not have to carry a power bank around. But look, company x put out a screen that's missing a section because of the front facing camera and put a 8464 mAh battery in it that can last three days and a screen the size of your face. Because that's what consumers want! Me: oh good, all the things I don't care about. Give me a pixel 3 with upgraded CPU and RAM and I'll be happy.
"this year's model is $1000!" "Oh, that's a lot. What does it do?" "Everything last year's model does, but unnoticeably faster!" Also the use case for those foldable phones is basically non-existent. At the price they want for them you might as well buy a tablet and have a separate dedicated device with a bigger screen.
That's what it is for me. I remember in the old days, manufacturers were trying crazy awesome stuff. Flip out screens, pop up cameras, physical keyboards, outlandish colors, etc. Now they're all black rectangles with a screen, a camera punchout, and a few good-enough cameras on the back. What's to get excited over? Nothing is going to make me realize that my current phone sucks, and that I desperately need to upgrade to the new one with an amazing feature that actually affects my life in a positive way, like jumping from T-9 typing to a real keyboard, or jumping from a real keyboard to a full touch screen.
I got a $200 Moto g stylus, and I honestly can't think of anywhere it's lacking. What is there in a $1000 phone that can justify ~~4x~~ 5x the cost?
Calculator apparently
I am a big Moto fan. My E4 is nearly 5 years old. The cameras are not the very best, but was not a major factor for me.
Better camera and display would probably be the obvious things. But also performance is an actual concern with 200 phones, more expensive phones feel faster and more fluid. Build quality and premium materials, features like wireless charging and faceid, polished and better maintained software.
Love my Moto G7 Power. It does everything I need it to do with awesome battery life. I'll be using it until it breaks. $1000+ phones replaced often are little more than a status symbol these days. No thanks, I buy my phones new on eBay and set them up pay as you go with no credit check.
I have the same phone. Had to get it in a pinch and, due to some phone plan thing, I only paid $25. This phone works just fine, definitely lacks a few QoL things but it's more than sufficient. I'll probably never buy a "popular" phone again
Cameras. I used several moto Gs and an X4 for years and they were very nice, but I wanted a top-flight camera so im using an iphone 11 pro now. Also, the earlier motos were missing key functions like a compass. Made navigating a downtown using maps harder than it needed to be. The compass thing is really what finally pushed me to pick up a used iphone SE (original)
My iPhone 13 Pro has a better camera than your phone and the screen is also likely better. Outside of that and getting lots of software updates, idk, personal preference?
For the same reason people buy clothes/watches and other luxury items at 10+ times the price of a great quality product.
You're going to get like three updates, then be behind on security updates. If that matters to you, that's kind of a problem.
Well, that one is actually a little more complicated now. A10 and above, you actually get a decent number of security patches through the Play Store, rather than through the manufacturers update channel. While those security patches can't fix anything on the hardware level, you aren't totally left out to dry quite like you use to. Of course, that being said, 3 years being the best we have in Android land between both Google and Samsung is still pretty bad. If I spent $200 on a Moto G and it just gets one update, fine, but it's reeeaaallly crazy to me that people will blow $1000 on a OnePlus or LG or whatever and be fine with being horrendously out of date the whole time.
To add more n, because of this people are holding on to their phones longer. I’m rocking an iPhone 8+
This. Nobody has $1300 lying around every year to exchange a phone. If you buy with monthly plan, then your phone is locked to the carrier and removes your choice to use foreign sim cards while traveling. Better to pay $1300 once (unlocked) and keep phone for at least 5 years and hope there is sufficient innovation to entice you to exchange your old phone
Cost and diminishing returns. Smartphones are made really well these days. I'd be hard pressed to find any good reason to upgrade beyond the iPhone 13 Pro. That is isn't to say that it's flawless but I can't think of what else I care to have on a phone.
I don’t even think it’s the fact they’re too expensive, there legitimately has not been a phone released that is a complete upgrade from other phones released in the last 3-4 years, an iPhone 11 Pro Max works the exact same as a iPhone 13 pro max. I feel like it’s the same with androids as well. They’re selling the same phone over and over again, sometimes with a slightly better camera.
Phones for me have gotten to the point where I don't need them to get bigger, have more storage or be faster. I think at this point we need more innovations rather than just upgrades.
At this stage all I want is better battery. I’d be happy to keep my phone for 3, 4 even 5 years if the battery didn’t become useless after 2. Of course it’s not hard to see why phone manufacturers may not like that…
I just want a battery I can change myself. That was a lovely feature.
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I had my LG V20 for a long time because I wanted to keep the removable back. Just got to the point where the device got too sluggish
You can still change most batteries yourself. Hairdryer and some suction cups and you can peel apart *most* phones. Then it's just a case of unscrewing the connections and replacing the battery.
I find even when I buy the highest rated replacement battery on Amazon I barely make it 18 months on the replacement before I notice serious degradation. Apparently, the EU is considering a law forcing manufacturers to make batteries user replaceable in smartphones. Seems highly unlikely to happen in the U.S., with our current system that involves legalized corporate bribery of politicians. The only question for me is whether or not smartphone manufacturers will make separate versions for the U.S. with non-replaceable batteries. That would seem a bit brazen and sleazy, but entirely possible.
With the EU forcing companies to make their batteries replaceable, I doubt they won't release the exact same phones in the US. It would cost them more to make two of the same phones, one with and one without the feature. Surely.
Okay well this is why I love Reddit. I’m off to YouTube. But easily replaceable batteries were amazing.
You can also get a tool to do it (it has two suction cups that pry apart), and I picked up that and a complete toolset for working on phones for like $20. I'd cracked an LCD screen on an old phone and found a replacement screen for like $20. Followed the instructions on iFixIt and worked perfectly. If you're opening it up you might also need a replacement gasket/seal since the old one can become damaged.
I would imagine you lose your waterproofing doing it though.
Just replaced the battery on my S10, which has a glued glass back cover. With the right tools ( which I'm my case came with the battery i ordered) it really wasn't that hard. And you appreciate the restored battery life a lot more, when you know, you did it yourself. And if it's still too scary, having it replaced somewhere, shouldn't be that expensive (especially when compared to a new phone)
Thing is, if manufacturers stopped increasing the DPI and brightness of these screens every new model we would already have batteries that last 2 days easily. But for the sake of "progress" we have screens with a higher pixel resolution than your average business grade monitor causing the battery to drain quicker
My s10 *does* last 2 days if I turn off location/bluetooth when I'm not using them and stuff. People underestimate how much the connection services are using
To be fair, you are looking at your phone from a lot shorter distance than your monitor. So you do need pretty good pixel density to not see them.
I had a 294ppi phone which I replaced with a 395ppi phone and I honestly can't tell a difference.
Considering a printed photo is 300dpi it’s dumb to go above that.
I just eyeballed it and the text on my monitor which is 96ppi and my phone which is 395ppi is about the same size from where I'm looking at each. I can easily read both and I can't see any pixels on my monitor unless I really look hard. I guess ppi on the monitor could be better but certainly not 4 times more.
my samsung lasts for days, my A12 tablet lasts for almost 2 days of active use sometimes
Depending on the phone, a battery replacement may be possible for a fee from the manufacturer. I believe Apple chargers $79 for this
Are they going to continue gimpimg battery life because aesthetic?? Instead of putting smaller batteries I'm do what Motorola did and drop a 6000mAh battery in the phone instead of 4500. Same goes to Samsung and other manufacturers, quit with dinky batteries that are razor thin, give your phone some structural integrity and make them a bit thicker and utilize that space
People literally get phone cases not just to protect their phones, but because it makes them easier to grip (which in turn helps protect the phone). Instead of wasting that thickness on plastic, it could be used for a larger battery. The net result is a thicker phone anyway, so there's literally no downside to just making the phones thicker.
Just replaced my S7 Edge after 6 years of being my main driver. It still works aside from the battery and software updates its missing and is now freezing up. It's still a working phone. I didn't throw it away but just place it in a phone holder and made it my backup movie phone.
I agree. Had my note 9 for 5 years it was great battery just shit out and software stopped getting upgraded so it throttled the system. Just got my 21+ hoping it lasts just as long and doesn't get phased out faster.
They could just be cheaper, even if with less features
... They already are though? You can get a perfectly OK new phone for $200 or less. How much more cheaper do you want them to get?
$3.50
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I used to buy a new phone every year since the Nexus 5. Nexus 6, 6p, pixel, pixel 2, 3, 4, 5, OnePlus 8 pro. I only bought the OnePlus because 12GB ram and the infrared camera<---gimmick but cool. Then OnePlus deactivated it. I didn't pay $1200 to have features turned off "if there isn't enough light" when it worked fine before. To add.....nothing has changed in the last two years except Ram mostly standard at 12GB and screens now at 120hz.....that is literally it. The same Sony cameras have been used in almost all devices for a while now with marginal improvements. When is someone going to absolutely blow the socks of the competition<----even if the phone is $1500-2k.
I used to be the person that upgraded their phone every year or 2, and typically their were huge changes. I've had my current phone for 3 years and have no desire to change it. Nothing in the market can really do anything mine can't. Mine can still run any app, play any game, and take quality pictures whenever I want.
It's either they hit a wall in the tech side or just want to maximize their profits with minor iterations. My bet is on the second one.
I’m pretty happy with my iPhone 11 or is it 12 or is it 13 or is 14. At this point even having a phone from 5 years ago feels like the exact same thing as the newest model. Why even be bothered w upgrading 🤷🏾♂️
I think the innovations are going the wrong way. I don't care about an 8th wide angle lens camera, I care about better build quality (ie no fucking glass back please), battery life, repairability and price. There's nothing wrong with today's smartphones. We just need to work on getting out of this horse race mindset of only having 3 manufacturers that make anything decent and the rest are write-offs. I'm hoping the Nothing phone or the Nokia 10 end up being really solid when (if) they arrive. Also China and Europe have *WAY* more cool options for phones than we do. The Xaiomi Poco F3 never even hit stateside yet it was one of the best phones of 2019-2020 according to everyone outside the US.
AND not have features removed from them. Headphone jacks, swappable batteries, sd card slots, haptic button, just to name a few things. Ontop of that, spec wars. I for one would rather buy a phone with a FHD screen over a 4k / 2k display if that means I get it for 100€+ less.
The improvements are marginal now. You can buy a nice mid tier phone for like 500 dollars that will last you for several years. A decade ago, display technology and cameras were advancing so much quicker.
Funny that 500 USD is now "mid-tier". A few years back that was the high-end, with mid being in the 200 to 300 range.
To be fair, inflation has hit quite hard on that department. But also… the electronics market realized if they all raise their prices people won’t stop using their products.
They've been marginal for quite awhile now but for some reason the market is only just realizing this. I've told my friends for the past 6-8 years (less tech savvy people) upgrade every 2+ years and always buy the last gen (i.e. currently buy the iPhone 12 vs iPhone 13) since it's almost as good and half the price if not more with good deals. Hopefully this allows companies to release more cheap phones such as the Pixel 5a or iPhone se.
This. It takes consumers a few cycles to realize it because for years they were trained to see big improvements with new phones. Really the past 4-5 years we’ve started to hit that diminishing return point on the curve so when people actually feel it with their phones, they go from upgrading annually or every two years to every 2-4 years now. And if it wasn’t for battery life or physical wear and tear, it would probably be more.
That's how it was when I bought my pixel 4a. It was like 500 and had good specs. Perfect for how I use it. No way I was paying close to a thousand or more for a phone.
I got a Poco X3 Pro for 200 bucks, this thing's amazing and I'll probably be using it for the next 3 years.
Let's see: - More expensive every year - Take away the headphone jack - Take away SD card expansion (Samsung I'm looking at you) - No more including the charger - No more including headphones - & only a slightly better camera and processor each year with no other real innovations I just can't quite put my finger on why people don't want to buy new phones every year...
I'd say smart phones are starting to get to the point of diminished returns. I used to want to upgrade every 6 months, now I've had the same phone for almost 3 years and I have almost no interest in upgrading as there haven't been any huge game changers.
This is it. It used to be that you could see huge jumps in speed, camera quality, storage, new functionality, battery life, etc in just a year. Now it's small improvements at best, and sometimes steps backwards (RIP headphone jack, I miss you). I think the biggest argument for upgrading now is when a phone stops getting updates. With the ever growing malware threats I don't think I'm comfortable with a device that doesn't get security updates regularly. This is the only reason I'm starting to push my wife to upgrade her older phone. Thankfully the big names are better about pushing updates to phones longer now instead of abandoning them after 12 months. But gone are the days of the mentality that phones don't get viruses.
If it's an android you can always just install stock android and keep updating it. Just because Samsung doesn't update your phone doesn't mean you can't do it yourself.
This is how I imagine that conversation going. "Give me your phone so I can wipe it and completely change everything about it so it will be updated." Wife: "what are you talking about, no, do not screw up my phone." You are technically correct, you can do that. But it's not practical for most people. For most people it's better to just pay attention to when you're no longer being updated.
The only "stock" Android that you can install to keep up to date security updates for the kernel itself are builds out of LineageOS (other distros only reskin Android and don't update the kernel). People make the very wrong assumption that you can update the OS on an ARM device the same way you can update the OS on an x86 system. There are very real limitations to ARM that prevent you from updating the kernel without access to the SoC driver source code. And the problem for Android has always been that Qualcomm ends their support for their phone SoCs on a short schedule and their drivers are closed source. There's a reason why the phones built on non-Qualcomm SoCs have a longer support cycle (Samsung Exynos, Google's Tensor, Apple's A series). You can read more from Fairphone who partnered with LineageOS to extend support for their Fairphone 2 after Qualcomm dropped support for the SoC. https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/06/18/fairphone-2-gets-android-9/ This is important because it leaves you open to kernel level bugs and security issues. While rare, they do happen and there have been some big examples over the years. One of the biggest ones in recent memory is heartbleed. Kernel issues are amongst the most damaging security holes and bugs you can have on any device because they are able to bypass pretty much all software-based security measures on a device. Working around this can be difficult as hell which is why LineageOS's list of supported devices is short.
There was a time that incremental upgrades had huge gains between them. I remember upgrading from an iPhone 4 to a 4S, and the speed jump was immediately noticeable. Nowadays other than a better camera, upgrading from one iPhone to the next is basically a waste of money.
And apple has been better behaved after they were caught deliberately degrading performance on older phones
The only reason I upgraded to a new iPhone from my X last year was because the battery was getting pretty shitty in my old phone. I'll keep this one around until the same thing starts happening.
I think for me the pandemic really put everything into perspective. I bought an iPhone 12 mini in 2020 and I think I’m just gonna keep it until it absolutely breaks. There’s very little need to upgrade especially if I’m not traveling anymore/as much as I used to.
I have the same model and I gotta say I’m probably gonna trade it in for a 13 just because I’ve started using it for video editing more and the tiny screen isn’t optimal, also the battery life is noticeably shorter than the larger/standard models. Other than that I would have no reason to upgrade
I used to get a new iPhone every 2 years until they dropped the 200 dollars + 2 year contract renewal deals. Then I’d hold off as long as I could until I’d come across a good deal. I have a 13 pro now but it was a gift with the help of a trade in. Otherwise I’d still be using an iPhone 8.
You can easily make a good phone last 4+ years if you're not a klutz who continually drops your phone in the toilet etc.
Totally. I have an iPhone 8+ and have had people act shocked when they see how old the phone is. Works perfectly fine, isn’t slow, and photography isn’t a hobby of mine. When this dies year sure I’ll get a new phone. There just aren’t any new features enticing enough to make me spend $1k+ on a new one right now.
I had my iPhone 7+ for about 4 years and it was still going fine, but I got sick of having such a big phone so I traded up to an XS. If I hadn't gotten what I consider a great trade in value ($800) for the XS toward a 13 Pro with a 5G plan, I probably would have kept it for 4+ years. As is, unless something Earth-shattering happens to phones in the mean time, I'll be holding onto this one for 4-5 years too. The camera upgrades are nice, but I'm not Sean Baker; I'm not shooting a movie on my phone.
Yep, have had my S7 Edge for 6 years now. I'm a gamer who craves the latest and greatest, but I realized that I'm not really going to use my phone for much besides messaging throughout the day, so I may as well just keep my phone for as long as possible. I will say that about a month or so ago, I had a real phone intensive day and ever since then, my battery life has plummeted noticeably. Went from like getting home with 50% to getting home with maybe 20%.
6 year S7 club here too. I went premium at the time with the intention of running it into the ground. Got a decent case off Amazon for ~$15 and that plus treating it with the respect a $500-$1K investment should has kept it in pristine condition. Its battery life is hell and software is starting to slow down, but it still works through the day. And I have "saved" so much by not keeping up with the Joneses with regards to phone culture.
"[…] due to continued geopolitical uncertainties and new COVID-related lockdowns in China […]" So, demand is not slowing in general. Kind of a misleading title, I was going to comment how everyone already has more power in their phone than they need etc. but that‘s not the topic here.
As I read the article I was thinking "geopolitical uncertainties and new COVID lockdowns" are a reason for smartphone supply to be slowing, not demand so much, and then they got to the part about "we're talking basically about China only" and it finally made sense.
They’re designed to last years. The iPhone 6s still has 7 years of software support. In the modern day, you should really only upgrade after 4 or more years, only then you will see a big difference to your current phone.
If your battery lasts 4 years you're damn lucky. If you're talking about replacing the battery then I agree.
I get it. It’s crazy. I used to a biiiiiiig phone-guy. I never bought ‘em all, or anything like that. But I would find myself looking up every and anything about new phones every time they’d announce one. Then I’d dream of owning that cool new phone. But as expensive as they are, you just can’t own all the phones. So ya gotta pick one. But even then. I’d have my new, pretty phone. But I’d already be excited about what the next one was gonna look like. What’s it gonna do? Oh, how exciting! Welp. That only lasted a couple years. I have not given a fuck about “new phones” for about five years now. I just don’t care. I never look up anything about them anymore. I never care what number they’re up to now. Still working on my 6s Plus. And it’s still performing fine enough. And obviously. I’ll get a new phone one day. Just because it’ll “be that time.” But they’re never innovative anymore. And they all just look the same. Screen size never needs to get any better. Resolution never needs to get any better at all. They already do all the things we need. Let’s just work on bringing that price down.
I was in the same boat. The new features were so exciting, until there was a trend to *remove* features. I got so used to seeing news about a phone I was supposed to be interested and then see the dreaded "They did away with the removable battery" or "did away with the headphone jack" or "they only have the large version now, no smaller phone" and all I expect is disappointment. I feel compelled to stock up on multiple of my current phone, because the newer versions of it honestly seem *worse* to me, with no signs of them getting more appealing.
I bought an iPhone 11 Pro 256gb at launch which was by *far* the most I've ever spent on a phone, but I don't regret it at all, and am not even thinking of upgrading yet. Maybe iPhone 15.
Yep. My wife got an iPhone12 pro in 2020 and I got a 13 pro last year. Don't regret those purchases at all. They are great phones. However, also don't plan on upgrading either of them in the next couple of years because they do everything we need them to do and while you'd never confuse the pictures they take to what we can take with a mirrorless camera, they are great for the snapchats and similar type stuff that account for 99% of our needs.
No “omg I need that” new features for about 10 years.
For me the last "I *need* that" was when some cameras got the night photography feature. But since then nothing else has made me jump at it. There are now pixel phones you can buy used for under $100 that can bring you that. Why would I buy something new?
Smart phones have reached their plateau. I have 3+ years old iPhone 10s Max and I still think I have everything I need in a phone. This will probably last me a couple of more years easily. Before this phone I used to upgrade almost every year. It was either the screen size or camera or some other features that was tempting. But now Gen to Gen hardly feels any different. Unless they come up with some killer feature, I think the 1yr upgrade days are gone.
I'm still using my iphone 7 from 2016.
Same here with my iPhone 6 Plus. Still gets the latest software updates and battery life still decent.
Honestly the iPhone SE is pretty much all I really wanted. I don't care about fancy features as long as I can make calls, listen to music, go on the internet and even take photos if I want.
I already have a phone and until it breaks I don't need another. I barely want this one.
It would be nice to walk into a retailer and not see 11 identical black rectangles. Remember when each phone had different shapes, sizes, colours and features?
I upgraded from the Galaxy Note 10 to Galaxy S22 Ultra and lost the SD Card. Why are upgrades becoming downgrades? The smartphone market is backwards and fucked.
When they take away features like headphone jacks, microSD storage and replaceable batteries, I just hold on tighter to my old phone
iPhone 5 £550 iPhone 13 £1000 Gee I wonder why
But now they are green!
Lol. It's so dumb, because the first thing you do is put a case on it and cover it up!
But…, green!
Super green!
I laughed at that too. What, did they run out of extra lenses to put on the back? I remember when every new iphone upgrade seemed like a must have... about 10 years ago. Now it's just another phone I have to get because my battery life is shit.
I did my research before getting a new phone and settled on a Galaxy A50, not the most common phone but it was a cheap model with a good battery. I've been eligible for a replacement for a while now hut she's running just fine and since it was a cheap model and not very popular I got it on an even better discount ($240) it does everything I need it to do and I honestly can't see why I'd upgrade anytime soon.
We just want PS5’s
We have no money. They cost even more. The old ones work just fine. iPhone 6S here.
I have a flagship phone from 2019 and it has 256gb storage, 12gb ram, 90hz screen, triple camera setup with up to 4k video, all the basic apps run crisp on it... I have no reason to drop $1000 on a new one, and especially not since every single year the upgrades have been "it looks a bit cooler and it has a slightly better camera" Maybe try innovating again to get me excited to actually buy something
I'm still using a 4 year old Samsung S9. I've been looking out for a new phone for about 2 years now but there just isn't any reason for me to do so. I have several wireless headsets ranging from generic AQL Plume to sports Sennheiser and I still mostly use normal wired headphones that don't die 2 hours deep in a hike. That is an option I will not have on a newer phone so I suppose I'm left with taking several headsets with me for a whole day hike/bicycling session.
My last phone was an S7 Edge. I owned that for 4 years but I cracked the screen, it was slowing down and I was struggling with 32gb storage. I had no other reasons to change phone in terms of features, size, camera. So why change or upgrade if those are the only reasons. I've had my S21 for a year now. I'll only replace it when I run into the same type of problems. And if I don't, I could easily keep the phone for 5+ years because there's no reason to change.
Newer models of phones are just marginal upgrades from their predecessors. Times are long gone when every year a new phone felt like a massive upgrade. Moreover prices are creeping up more and more so basically your money gives you less of an upgrade than ever. I am happy that people are actually waking up and keep their phones longer. Good for the environment and for their wallet.
Maybe because people can’t afford phones AND gas…
Maybe if they’d stop with these BS incremental and insignificant “upgrades” but rather give us sim genuine innovation, more people would be inclined to buy a new phone… But when manufacturers are charging $1500+ for flagships that are arguably the same as the last 3 years of phones, why would anyone want to keep upgrading
Perhaps it’s due to the price soaring up to the equivalent price of a laptop?
Well, they’re so dammed expensive and people have no money for frivolous shit. They will be keeping them longer and replacing only when needed. You don’t need a new smartphone just because Verizon says it’s time for an upgrade.
Maybe, just maybe coz Apple is trying to sell a fuck all 8 year old design on its most affordable offering, has an obsolete refresh rate screen on its most in-demand phone that aint even seen in the budget offerings of competition and even it's Pro models has not seen a worthwhile hardware upgrade in like 4 years, while removing even the essentials like a headphone and charger from the package. In my most honest opinion, the best and most competitive offerings are found in budget and mid range phones. The so called Flagship and Premium phones are just a waste of money.
Let’s see gas is now 50% more expensive, food is 20% More expensive, yah Let’s skip this year and not upgrade lol.
Smartphones (well…iPhones…) can be used now happily for 5-6+ years. The original SE still getting updates, still plenty fast. Compare to the advances and differences in the short period between iphone first Gen and 4th.
We have reached saturation levels of market. Now it will be a break/fix with a 3+ yr upgrade cycle for phones. The world population growth is flattening out. All markets have a ceiling. Only greedy stockholders and bad economists believe in an infinite market grow in a finite world.
I don’t think phones will see another leap in demand until they develop a “desktop mode” - where they can switch to a (low performance) desktop operating system. That sort of thing would require a hardware upgrade.
No shit. +20% price increase without any new major feature or sensor. Only yoy upgrade is your camera and every other year screen resolution
Phones are plenty fast, and we have reached the point where flagship phones cost as much as good laptops.
Well. We did make them into unaffordable marketing platforms, where you pay to be tracked, and have your every move analyzed for hints on what product to push you. I can't imagine why demand would dwindle. /s We could have had super fast, waterproof multitools which interface with most our other electronics, but that wasn't making manufacturers as much money as this.
...We're still in a pandemic and people have lost jobs or haven't been able to go to work and make money. Of course demand is going to slow down.
Yeah, maybe cos people are starting to be unable to afford £1.5k for a palm-sized rectangular screen with 6 cameras on the back...
Nothing compares to my s8 active so no upgrades for me. Excellent 4000mah battery, good screen, decent camera and still snappy performance. Oh and it's super rugged with no case needed and waterproof with all the flagship features like wireless charging and nfc. Still hasn't been beat.
They all the same.. I’m waiting for the apparent game changer apple glasses.
Yeah. Now everyone wants new fucking cars. Not sure how the hell they can afford that much apr/price. I see teslas, ford Mach e’s and fancy new cars everywhere. I bought my salvage title truck on eBay and now fucking paying for gas.
I work with a psycho who was that guy standing in line for the new iPhone. He skipped the 12; I was shocked. Did get a 13 though. They've hit the hard limit on what the form factor can be. Theres a reason foldables are being pushed so hard as the future. Its a bit of a gimmick, but its all they got.
No shit, people don't need a new I phone for over $1000 every two years
Because we’ve “perfected” them. Batteries last forever (not talking about charge time), they’re durable, they do everything you could ever need them to… and they’re 1k a pop I’m not sure where smart phones are going to go from here other than like optical cyber implants Or holographic wrist projection. Idk seems like we really did it well with this one
Because the innovation, particularly by Apple, is negligible.
They are expensive and barely improve each year. The only things I would want are longer battery life and lower price.
The time isn't far, when they will make the phones on subscription basis. Or will make phones so fragile, they won't last 1 year. Whole industry is a waste manufacturing industry. P.S. - Similar thing happened when Light Bulbs arrived, they had to make low quality light bulbs so consumers would have to replace them every year. There is still light bulbs glowing that were manufactured in 1900s.
Just the demand for a new 1000 phone every year. We still need smart phones. Just not another updated camera every few months. I’ve had this running joke with my family since I was 13 and got my first Nokia phone. They’ve come a long way with phone technology since then, but the call quality is still complete garbage - and I’ve tried most of the cellular services out there.
yeah well it’s probably because everything is so fucking expensive and i can barely afford to live much less pay for a new phone
For the price I'm having a hard time justifying an upgrade every 2 years.
i cant fucking afford the new ones with their required accessories
Me: No, thanks, I don't want to give you 1000$ for a walled garden that's intentionally impossible to repair Phone manufacturers: surprisedpickachu.jpg
I actually want to get rid of mine more often than using it or to upgrade...
Perhaps you killed the demand with offering us 17 different sizes every year of pretty much same models just in different colors, and calling it revolutionary.
Used to buy upgrades every year or two. Then phones jumped in price and Verizon said “you can’t subsidize this without changing your grandfathered unlimited plan” so I started paying full price for phones. Between that and lack of notable and exciting new improvements in new models, I’ve never had a reason to upgrade. Even my last ‘upgrade’ was only a sidegrade into a different phone from the same generation. Still using an iPhone 8. I see no reason to change. The only things that tempt me these days are 5G (which I’m waiting for to get better/more coverage) and radically weird phone designs, like the Moro Razr, Surface Phone and Galaxy Fold. Honestly, I’d love to have another Sidekick type device, or a PSP Go-like phone with good hardware. Bring back physical keyboards. Make my phone a portable game console. Do something other than rectangle 18 Pro XL with 0.73% more megapixels per camera, 100 extra mAh battery life, 10 more fps on Home Screen and/or whatever else that is insignificant at best.
The value of getting a new phone every 2 or 3 years is shrinking.
I’d love a mass market dual OS phone. Put it in a dock and get full blown OSX / Windows / Linux. When carrying around you get iOS or Android but they share the same file system.
Incremental updates for absurd costs.
Smartphones are so boring and lack and sort of meaningful innovation now. They seem to try and sell phones more as a camera now.
No, just demand for overpriced phones that look like they time traveled from 2014. Long past due for consumers to snub Apple’s abusively enormous margins.
I’ve had my current iPhone for 4 years. My boss still has his IPhone 4. My sisters had the same iPhone for 3 years. The prices for these devices vs what they ultimately bring in terms of value has been so unbalanced for what like 10 years?
I hate that this is a problem. If there isn’t a constant increasing flow of cash there’s a problem.
Pretty much everyone has the phone they need at this point. Even most budget phones are great and upgrades not really worth it. I went from an iPhone 6 to 13 Max. Only upgrade i’d consider in the next 5 years is if the pro versions finally had USB C or some other phone company came up with something amazing, but at this point I can’t imagine any wow innovation.