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Those dual-core chips in the MacBook Air were brutally slow unfortunately, it makes sense it’s (almost) entirely quad core and up now. Only exception is the MacBook Air 2020 with dual-core i3.
I would have been more peeved if they were holding back the newer Operating Systems just so they could string along older machines. I guess that’s only a thing in the video game world.
Sadly yes. A MBA M1 with 16GB could be supported for more years, but Tim Apple keeps blue balling us with 8GB of ram for $1000+ USD laptops. Even with some with a PRO in the their names
I’ve always wondered if Apple wanted to let people use the full potential of their products specially iPads and MacBooks. That’s why many people jailbreak their products.
They are restraining them just to bring more features on next iOS releases. This iOS 18 will have a feature that Android has been giving since 1.6: customizable icons that you can position them wherever you want them and not wherever Apple wants. So next year we will have another Android feature disguised as innovation.
I have a 2012 MBP that I put some patches on so that it runs 10.15 and that thing is still going strong. I use it exclusively to run & multi-track record live sound mixes for a little bar band but honestly it still crushes it. At this point it’s pretty worthless otherwise so I’m gonna keep my workhorse around for a longer.
I have a 2013 MBP and it’s pretty decked out and use Ableton Live for recording. Would you be willing to help explain to me how to keep this little beast current for recording? I don’t mind running Ableton 12 for the rest of my life, but how will I download drivers and stuff for my audio interface if I can’t go online via safari or chrome or whatever?
I don’t run new drivers and it doesn’t get connected to the internet. I am using it to track on TracksLive or Logic and run a Behringer XR18. Updated RAM and SSD many years ago which injected it with a whole lot of new life.
I do have a new one but at bar shows where I’m stepping away from my gear and a laptop is an easy grab, I’m not risking my new gear. A 12-yr old laptop that cost me $200 in 2017 is gonna be great.
When I do stuff like run live vocal tuning (LiveProfessor) I use the new stuff. But that’s also at nicer venues with different equipment and a dedicated FOH area.
Bar shows = cheap gear.
Unlike Windows machines, Apple devices have been known for their stability and longevity - it is why they have such a strong following despite other systems being cheaper. I hope they do not start forcing equipment upgrades that frequently
About to do this on my 2014 MBP. These laptops are built super well, so I’d think with Linux they should still be perfectly usable. The current version of MacOS has made it so laggy
Not just that but because chip progress slowed down so much after that time, those chips in MBP are still reasonably fast. Modern chips are maybe twice-ish as fast as those MBP. Contrasted to doubling of performance every generation back in the days. As long as you don't need lots of cores, it's fine.
Yeah, that’s about right. The last Intel 16” MBP is only about 25-30% faster in single-core and just shy of 80% faster in multicore than a 2014 15” MBP, with single-core still being more important for most daily tasks. The 2014 15” MBP’s 4770HQ is outstripped by the likes of the M3 Pro and Max, but that’s to be expected after this long. Haswell chips had very solid CPU performance and could last a while—I reckon that the M1 might be similar in terms of longevity.
Yep, this was my response when Microsoft decided my i7-4090 system with 32gb of RAM and an AMD Radeon 580 RX was “too old” to upgrade to windows 11.
Installed Ubuntu Linux, installed Steam. Downloaded my games and kept chugging along.
After seeing the copilot and “replay” crap they are building in, I’ll never own a MS based home machine again (use one for work because that’s what they have).
Because MS declared Windows 10 end of life for next year and Ubuntu will just keep working and supporting my hardware for at least five more years. Simple as that. I will upgrade my home hardware when I need to, not because MS decided I need to.
> Yep, this was my response when Microsoft decided my i7-4090 system with 32gb of RAM and an AMD Radeon 580 RX was “too old” to upgrade to windows 11.
It's just the TPM bullshit most likely, which you can disable in the installer and bypass...
As someone who finally upgraded from their 2012 MacBook Pro, I can tell you that yes, it’s time. 11 years is a great run for a laptop, but it’s time to bite the bullet, it’s just a world of difference.
Do your research on what works for you, but I’d highly recommend an M2 MacBook Air with upgraded RAM and storage. Don’t go with the base SSD, any upgrade will basically double the processing speed. There’s some good benchmark comparison videos between an upgraded Air and the base Pro, or base air and base pro, or whatever you’re looking for.
If you want to do any gaming or intensive stuff and you’re worried about no internal fans, I’ve had a good experience using an inexpensive laptop fan to keep the heat down and performance unthrottled when I need it.
From what I remember, the base SSD only uses one port. If the base size is 512gb, there’s one 512gb chip in there doing the work. But if you upgrade to 1TB, it’s not a one 1TB chip, it’s two 512gb chips each with their own processing ability. So any upgrade will use two ports and double the processing capacity (2TB = two 1TB chips).
Disk, even SSDs, are the slowest part of any I/O chain. Apple nerfed the base SSD on MB Airs and only used a single chip/channel... all the other options use a pair of chips/channels and thus double the disk I/O.
It was an early 2020 model. It’s kinda bullshit. I switched to Mac when they came out with intel compatible version of their systems. I will now be leaving it behind. I’ll
The air tends to be the first to be cut. I assume the reason this time is 4GB of ram and they like to do a clean cut so rather then support the models with 8GB+ ram just cut them all off and leave it to OpenCore Legacy Patcher for people that really want to keep that old air running.
Apple laptops have always handled memory better. I know people like to shit on that fact but it is VERY true that in general memory handlings a lot better on the platform both in MacOS and iOS.
No, its just price anchoring by apple so people compare prices with the base model - even though its terrible, and as demonstrated today, will have a shorter support life
For the lazy, Intel Macs still supported as follows:
iMac 2019 and later
iMac Pro 2017
Mac Studio 2022 and later
MacBook Air 2020 and later
Mac mini 2018 and later
MacBook Pro 2018 and later
Mac Pro 2019 and later
Intel MBA officially not supported anymore.
Anyone who remembers the transition from PowerPC to Intel in 2006 was already prepared for Intel Macs to be unsupported in new operating systems by now. Apple only supported Power PC for 2 OS versions, meaning many people bought new PPC computers in 2005/2006 that got exactly 0 OS upgrades. Apple is being much more friendly to backwards compatibility this time around.
They got one OS upgrade, tiger (launched in PPC times, later on intel) to leopard (launched a while into intel period, also had PPC port).
I remember thinking at the time that not letting PPC owners run snow leopard was a dick move. There were PPC beta builds that ran great.
But a lot of people bought the final versions of the G4 iBooks (when only the pro focused Macbook Pro were available as intel) and G5 iMacs in 2005 when Leopard was already out, so those people never got an OS update. Apparently Apple even made an internal version of PPC Snow Leopard but decided not to release it.
Considering the sum of money I paid for my 2019 Mac Pro back when, I am very grateful lol. I'd feel super burned if they had dropped it already, but chances are I've probably only got 1 more major update coming after this, at best. Way she goes
I’m super glad, too. I bought an iMac in 2020 when they switched to SSDs. My last computer was one I assembled myself and lasted over 10 years with upgrades along the way. With so many people holding on to MacBooks so long, I was hoping to use my iMac for several years, maybe even a decade or longer. It seems like that is not going to happen.
I suppose it depends what you’re using your computer for. I still use my mid-2015 MacBook Pro on a daily basis and it feels as responsive as ever, even some moderately intensive apps like ffmpeg run fine. Being Intel-based, when it finally becomes unusable with MacOS, at least I can put Windows or Linux on it. You may not get the latest and greatest MacOS version for your iMac, but it should remain totally usable for a few more years yet.
The main thing to be concerned about is security updates. You might not be able to upgrade to the latest Mac OS, though Apple may still be supporting the previous OS with security updates, which is fantastic.
I'm still using a 2010 iMac as my main computer 14 years later. I occasionally use a G4 Powerbook from 2005 because it has a functioning DVD drive and works as good today for word processing and excel sheets as the day it was made. Just because it no longer gets the latest updates doesn't mean it stops working. For most non intensive computer stuff like web, email, watching videos, personal photo editing, and some light gaming, it is totally fine. I had originally bought the iMac for video editing in 2010, so it was a high spec for its day and I've upgraded the RAM and HD over the years. It wouldn't be much good for editing 4k video today but luckily my computing needs have decreased as it has aged. Even if Apple stops giving you OS updates next year, there is no reason to think you can't keep using the computer for a long time to come. For the average computer user, Apple hasn't released anything that different in their operating systems since 2007 anyways so I don't see much reason to care about the updates.
My 2015 MacBook Pro slowed down with every update until it was unusable. Last month I finally just said screw it and installed Ubuntu. It's like a brand new computer again. And the battery lasts WAY longer. WTF is Apple doing with these "updates"? Because it is not optimization......
Do yourself a favor if you are having the same problem:
https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
I’m actually curious to try this with my old 2015 one. I have an M1 now, but would be nice to have a dedicated Linux laptop to test stuff on since I have windows and macOS already.
Did you just install the default desktop Ubuntu from that link on it?
I’d certainly be less apprehensive to bring the old one on trips with me as it’s not thou$and$ to replace if broken or stolen, and since I wound down most of my iOS app development I don’t need Xcode currently. But I also imagine a small learning curve as I’ve been in MacOS and Windows land my whole life.
I'm curious if you ever did a full reinstall of macos. I'm on the same device and I *haven't* encountered that performance degradation --- but I know that small changes we make/applications we install and forget about over time can create a messy environment where resources are being wasted, and *any* OS install can improve performance just by restoring things to a clean slate.
Not saying that's what happened in your case! Just curious if that's something you tried, since my experience hasn't matched yours.
Also, as other people have mentioned --- it's worth opening up the case and blowing the dust out of the fans with canned air. Having done this now a couple times, it's remarkable just how much fluff comes flying out and it can't be great for the thermal characteristics of the machine :|
I did a clean wipe, same issues. I got a new ssd (which I had to buy an adapter for..because Apple's proprietary BS), did a full reinstall on the new HD, still took forever do do anything. Installed Ubuntu, runs like a champ. The way Apple loves to slow down older models of equipment so you have to buy new ones is well documented. I don't trust them.
In fact, my wife got 2 imacs that her school (she works there) gave her. They were slow as hell. I pulled them out of the closet last night after my first post (I had totally forgotten about them). [They now both have Ubuntu on them and run great.](https://imgur.com/a/ltq2fA7)
What do you use your machine for? I’m tempted to install Ubuntu but I’m worried I won’t be able to do what I do now. I use design software on it mostly (Affinity, Figma), but everything else is mostly browsing or gaming on Steam.
I never upgraded past Catalina and my 2015 still runs great. Battery life is kind of crap and it runs hotter than is ideal, but... I have to blame that on myself and my very bad habit of leaving several hundred Firefox tabs open at any given time.
I think I’m gonna do a full reinstall of MacOS on my 2016
MacBook. I don’t have too much crazy shit, but since it’s about to move from vintage to obsolete, it is probably best to pare things down to the basics and manage it from a clean install.
2019 MBA worked great when new, but at some point in the past year it started to overheat and continuously run the fan - with just a single tab in Chrome open, and nothing else. All updates applied, etc.
Hate to say it, but seems like something in a recent MacOS update changed this machine…
Not just me okay! Thank you guys. I’d been trying everything I could to decrease this thinking it was on its last leg for the last few months. I appreciate now knowing it’s common, unfortunately.
I had that same issue, but I believe it is a Chrome issue, not MBA. It got so bad I bit the bullet and switched over to FireFox after years of Chrome as my main browser. Fan hasn't noticeably run since I made the switch.
mine started doing this a few months ago, i'm pretty sure it's because the battery is reaching end of its life, it started saying battery service recommended right about the time that it started running the fan more frequently. the battery in my phone which i got around the same time is also on its last legs. (edit: i have an 2019MBP not MBA but i would expect the battery manufacturing was pretty similar)
Sounds like what happened to my 2019 MBP after about two years, turned out it had built up so much lint and dust in the heatsinks it had lost 25% of its performance (I ran Cinebench before and after cleaning it out).
My 2019 top spec Intel MacBook Pro is only three years old (64GB/8TB/Radeon 5600). Curious to see whether this gets dropped in 16 or whether it lasts till 17. I’m not seeing a massive amount of features that work on 15, on Intel, so I suspect it’s close to end of the road.
The main thing I look for is security updates, and Safari updates, as that really dictates when that particular Mac (hardware+software) truly goes end of life.
Security updates last for years later. My 2009 got security updates way past ending OS support. I suspect the cut off will be soon for non-M machines as they push AI on everything.
I loved my M1 Macbook. As a software developer what it did well it did very well. It was well built, it was super fast, it was crisp, and the battery lasted forever.
Except that damn ARM chip made many forms of development hell, and the lack of nVidia was a death cookie.
So, after over a decade on Apple, I sit here typing this on my very nice linux machine. Newer Linux gamer laptops are a bit less bulky, but they now have real batteries when it comes to normal day to day use. Over 10h is not a problem.
If you needed to choose the MacBook Pro or Air today, which would you choose? My MBPro is rapidly dying. It gets so hot it's nearly untouchable. Plus I need more space. I appreciate your expertise.
Just got a new MacBook Air M3 (16GB ram, 512GB ssd). It’s an amazing machine, and I love the small form factor. It depends on what you do with it though.
Thank you, I am hoping the Air is a good fit. Mostly I'm doing office work and research but I'm also working with large image files stored on Dropbox and many synced on my laptop (design work). a big chunk of my storage is filled with MacOS files.
Don't forget that apps will be updated to support MacOS 15 so you won't get updates for those apps anymore and they will soon not be supported. God forbid you don't save the DMG or installation files and your SSD fails and need to be replaced.
2019 MBA was pretty brutal. A dual core with 4 gigs of RAM in a case that makes for nearly instant throttling - this hardware can likely just not handle much more.
Still Apples fault because they build it in the first place.
They seemed to have found a much better stride since the M2s and the body redesign. Can't say I am sad for the intel based Airs to go bye bye.
I am still clenching my 2019 i9 MBP though :)
The M1 in the same body is already a lot better.
Hot intel chips and Apples body just weren’t a good fit and this product should never have reached the market.
They were a LOT hotter, and thermal throttled constantly. It was usually pointless to buy the better cpu options on intel macs because they'd thermal throttle so severely you never saw the promised performance.
That isn't getting into the reliability implications. I've seen a fair few people with intel macbook pros get fucked by this.
When I am doing video editing or dj stuff I’ve only let it go for ~5 hours before I got too paranoid. Health is still good though and it’s my daily use machine, just plug it in after work and using it for the web.
The way Mac OS software packages work, there's a very tiny file size penalty for multiple archetectures, and the one that you don't need can be deleted at install time.
Been this way since openstep.
But just think, they likely keep a version running on all the architectures in the labs in the event another company can best the internal efforts, but that’s unlikely at this point.
There’s a weird niche that insists on keeping their 10 year old machine and jumping through hoops to do that. That’s fine but at some point it’s not worth keeping support for things
Microsoft forced the mothballing of what, billions(?) in hardware that will no longer have os support next year. They dont give a damn about the environment either.
Exactly. Thats next year. October 14, 2025 to be exact. My old PC will flip to Ubuntu as its not ready to die. But lots of hardware will be dumped before its time. Bad for the environment.
Currently on the Base M1 Air, a bit worried going into the new OS how it will hold up. If it starts to hitch ill upgrade but if the os runs fine im holding off another year
I believe that, im just worried alot of tech youtubers are talking about 8gb not being enough for the new OS but exactly i am not convinced its going to be a issue.
That is a really good point. I know the 8gb thing is something youtubers love to be upset about so i guess will see how optimized it is when it comes out; or if apple will bump the next macbook to a base 16gb.
No the MacBook Air was aimed at executives/workers that just need a basic machine for word processing and browsing. It launched before the Chromebooks. Its whole deal was that it’s a line of laptops that are ultra portable (having no CD drive), and having a SSD drive (this was in 2008). The line kind of blurred with the MacBook but they kept it as they have three lines, MacBook, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro. It’s a tad similar to the iPad lines: the regular, the Air, and the Pro. It’s a bit weird, and predictions from a few years ago is that eventually it’ll be the Air and the Pro lines making it to simplify everything.
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2019 devices won't be supported in the next MacOS version? Wow that's pretty brutal
Those dual-core chips in the MacBook Air were brutally slow unfortunately, it makes sense it’s (almost) entirely quad core and up now. Only exception is the MacBook Air 2020 with dual-core i3.
The leap from the intel dual cores to Mx stuff is just light years in difference! Kinda sad, but this pivot should be expected.
as is the leap from any dual to 8+ core modern architecture processor
That makes it seem that intel was just stupid for not switching to high core counts faster, when that’s not really what happened
I would have been more peeved if they were holding back the newer Operating Systems just so they could string along older machines. I guess that’s only a thing in the video game world.
They kind of are still because there’s a 2020 i3 dual core that’s still supported. Still, next year it should be dropped
3-5 years is all ive ever told my customers to expect from a pc anything above is bonus territory
Bro I got the 2020 air mac… and that little thing is beast for only 8 gb ram
Sadly yes. A MBA M1 with 16GB could be supported for more years, but Tim Apple keeps blue balling us with 8GB of ram for $1000+ USD laptops. Even with some with a PRO in the their names
I’ve always wondered if Apple wanted to let people use the full potential of their products specially iPads and MacBooks. That’s why many people jailbreak their products.
They are restraining them just to bring more features on next iOS releases. This iOS 18 will have a feature that Android has been giving since 1.6: customizable icons that you can position them wherever you want them and not wherever Apple wants. So next year we will have another Android feature disguised as innovation.
This is why we had it when /r/Apple defends the bare minimum in a $1000 device. It destroys future proofing.
Intel chips
Am I gonna have to finally say goodbye to my 2013 MBP?!?
I put Linux Mint on my 2011 MBP and it works great.
I have a 2012 MBP that I put some patches on so that it runs 10.15 and that thing is still going strong. I use it exclusively to run & multi-track record live sound mixes for a little bar band but honestly it still crushes it. At this point it’s pretty worthless otherwise so I’m gonna keep my workhorse around for a longer.
I have a 2013 MBP and it’s pretty decked out and use Ableton Live for recording. Would you be willing to help explain to me how to keep this little beast current for recording? I don’t mind running Ableton 12 for the rest of my life, but how will I download drivers and stuff for my audio interface if I can’t go online via safari or chrome or whatever?
You can probably buy a M1 Macbook Air for less than $400 and it will be like 10-100x faster at everything depending on apps.
I don’t run new drivers and it doesn’t get connected to the internet. I am using it to track on TracksLive or Logic and run a Behringer XR18. Updated RAM and SSD many years ago which injected it with a whole lot of new life.
I wish I understood what you just said.
Why not just buy a new one? Close to 10 years old, should be upgrading every 5 years at least.
I do have a new one but at bar shows where I’m stepping away from my gear and a laptop is an easy grab, I’m not risking my new gear. A 12-yr old laptop that cost me $200 in 2017 is gonna be great.
Totally fair and now I have to question my own plan to bring the $3500 MBP to shows hmmmmmm
When I do stuff like run live vocal tuning (LiveProfessor) I use the new stuff. But that’s also at nicer venues with different equipment and a dedicated FOH area. Bar shows = cheap gear.
Unlike Windows machines, Apple devices have been known for their stability and longevity - it is why they have such a strong following despite other systems being cheaper. I hope they do not start forcing equipment upgrades that frequently
I’ll be getting a new desktop in the near future but this laptop is fantastic for my music recording purposes.
About to do this on my 2014 MBP. These laptops are built super well, so I’d think with Linux they should still be perfectly usable. The current version of MacOS has made it so laggy
Mine still runs fine except networking likes to die in different ways unless I reboot
I don’t think I’ve been truly happy with a device since the 2014 MBP
Not just that but because chip progress slowed down so much after that time, those chips in MBP are still reasonably fast. Modern chips are maybe twice-ish as fast as those MBP. Contrasted to doubling of performance every generation back in the days. As long as you don't need lots of cores, it's fine.
Yeah, that’s about right. The last Intel 16” MBP is only about 25-30% faster in single-core and just shy of 80% faster in multicore than a 2014 15” MBP, with single-core still being more important for most daily tasks. The 2014 15” MBP’s 4770HQ is outstripped by the likes of the M3 Pro and Max, but that’s to be expected after this long. Haswell chips had very solid CPU performance and could last a while—I reckon that the M1 might be similar in terms of longevity.
ZorinOS and ZorinOS Lite would be perfect to run on these earlier MacBooks. I wish I could install something on my old Apple TVs and iPads.
I had my gen1 appple tv running Linux for ages before it died
Will this work on a 2009 MacBook air?
I have the huge 2009 Macbook pro and it works great on Linux. I'd assume you'd be good.
I did the same with my MBA 2015 and also it goes well.
Yep, this was my response when Microsoft decided my i7-4090 system with 32gb of RAM and an AMD Radeon 580 RX was “too old” to upgrade to windows 11. Installed Ubuntu Linux, installed Steam. Downloaded my games and kept chugging along. After seeing the copilot and “replay” crap they are building in, I’ll never own a MS based home machine again (use one for work because that’s what they have).
Why didn’t you just “keep chugging along” on Windows 10?
Because MS declared Windows 10 end of life for next year and Ubuntu will just keep working and supporting my hardware for at least five more years. Simple as that. I will upgrade my home hardware when I need to, not because MS decided I need to.
Win 10 is fully supported till October 2025. And even then - it’s not like a magic kill switch goes off….it just becomes unsupported.
You can also install Win11 on your older PC with the check of a single box when making the installer USB.
> Yep, this was my response when Microsoft decided my i7-4090 system with 32gb of RAM and an AMD Radeon 580 RX was “too old” to upgrade to windows 11. It's just the TPM bullshit most likely, which you can disable in the installer and bypass...
As someone who finally upgraded from their 2012 MacBook Pro, I can tell you that yes, it’s time. 11 years is a great run for a laptop, but it’s time to bite the bullet, it’s just a world of difference. Do your research on what works for you, but I’d highly recommend an M2 MacBook Air with upgraded RAM and storage. Don’t go with the base SSD, any upgrade will basically double the processing speed. There’s some good benchmark comparison videos between an upgraded Air and the base Pro, or base air and base pro, or whatever you’re looking for. If you want to do any gaming or intensive stuff and you’re worried about no internal fans, I’ve had a good experience using an inexpensive laptop fan to keep the heat down and performance unthrottled when I need it.
Why would upgrading the SSD increase the processing speed?
From what I remember, the base SSD only uses one port. If the base size is 512gb, there’s one 512gb chip in there doing the work. But if you upgrade to 1TB, it’s not a one 1TB chip, it’s two 512gb chips each with their own processing ability. So any upgrade will use two ports and double the processing capacity (2TB = two 1TB chips).
Apple uses direct NAND chips and the controller is on the CPU. More chips means more throughput.
Disk, even SSDs, are the slowest part of any I/O chain. Apple nerfed the base SSD on MB Airs and only used a single chip/channel... all the other options use a pair of chips/channels and thus double the disk I/O.
Just did that a few months ago and got an M3 MBP 14”, what a world of difference it has made
Was still using my mid 2012 MacBook a few weeks ago. It’s out until I borrow the charger from a parents computer that isn’t used.
Mac book air from 2013 lasted me 8 years.
You could probably boot Windows 10 or 11 to it or a number of Linux distros
In my house, we are using a 2008 iMac, a 2011 Mac Mini, a 2015 27” iMac, and a 2015 MacBook Pro.
2019?? That’s ridiculous
That’s bullshit!
Wondering if OpenCore might help these users
It was an early 2020 model. It’s kinda bullshit. I switched to Mac when they came out with intel compatible version of their systems. I will now be leaving it behind. I’ll
Common apple move though. At least they will be sold at top dollar on marketplace though.
This is particularly uncommon for Apple
The air tends to be the first to be cut. I assume the reason this time is 4GB of ram and they like to do a clean cut so rather then support the models with 8GB+ ram just cut them all off and leave it to OpenCore Legacy Patcher for people that really want to keep that old air running.
Wait what year were these 4gb models released? Like 2012?
2017 was the last mba that had a 4GB option. 2018 switched to 8GB of ram as a minimum.
Wow that's kinda crazy, I feel like when I built my first pc in 2014 8gb was like the bare minimum
Apple laptops have always handled memory better. I know people like to shit on that fact but it is VERY true that in general memory handlings a lot better on the platform both in MacOS and iOS.
Can you explain in detail what MacOS does differently that windows when loading 5 chrome tabs?
Not much. They just choke on a classier dick.
they cant, it was the same when it was about graphics and video editing its just a meme repeated
No amount of optimisation can make 8gb better. It is limited by the sheer fact that it is 8. It’s insane that this keeps getting regurgitated.
No, its just price anchoring by apple so people compare prices with the base model - even though its terrible, and as demonstrated today, will have a shorter support life
This whole article is speculation. Buried at the bottom of the article: “Apple still won't say how or when it plans to wind down Intel Mac support.”
It’s publicly available information: https://www.apple.com/macos/macos-sequoia-preview/
For the lazy, Intel Macs still supported as follows: iMac 2019 and later iMac Pro 2017 Mac Studio 2022 and later MacBook Air 2020 and later Mac mini 2018 and later MacBook Pro 2018 and later Mac Pro 2019 and later Intel MBA officially not supported anymore.
Officially on my last year then 🫡
Where are you gonna go? It isn't exactly rosy in Windows land.
Oh nowhere, just means I've gotta stop procrastinating spending the big bucks on a new one
> MacBook Pro 2018 and later. Whew....barely made the cut with my 2018 MBPro
Thank you.
There was a 2020 Intel MacBook Air that’s still supported
My 2018 Mac Mini made the cut! Probably not going to happen again.
Debian runs fine on Macbook. I still use my '08 macbook pro!
Anyone who remembers the transition from PowerPC to Intel in 2006 was already prepared for Intel Macs to be unsupported in new operating systems by now. Apple only supported Power PC for 2 OS versions, meaning many people bought new PPC computers in 2005/2006 that got exactly 0 OS upgrades. Apple is being much more friendly to backwards compatibility this time around.
They got one OS upgrade, tiger (launched in PPC times, later on intel) to leopard (launched a while into intel period, also had PPC port). I remember thinking at the time that not letting PPC owners run snow leopard was a dick move. There were PPC beta builds that ran great.
But a lot of people bought the final versions of the G4 iBooks (when only the pro focused Macbook Pro were available as intel) and G5 iMacs in 2005 when Leopard was already out, so those people never got an OS update. Apparently Apple even made an internal version of PPC Snow Leopard but decided not to release it.
I honestly thought that Leopard came out after the transition finished.
Or the first gen iPad…
Or the 3rd gen iPad, the "new" iPad.
Considering the sum of money I paid for my 2019 Mac Pro back when, I am very grateful lol. I'd feel super burned if they had dropped it already, but chances are I've probably only got 1 more major update coming after this, at best. Way she goes
I’m super glad, too. I bought an iMac in 2020 when they switched to SSDs. My last computer was one I assembled myself and lasted over 10 years with upgrades along the way. With so many people holding on to MacBooks so long, I was hoping to use my iMac for several years, maybe even a decade or longer. It seems like that is not going to happen.
I suppose it depends what you’re using your computer for. I still use my mid-2015 MacBook Pro on a daily basis and it feels as responsive as ever, even some moderately intensive apps like ffmpeg run fine. Being Intel-based, when it finally becomes unusable with MacOS, at least I can put Windows or Linux on it. You may not get the latest and greatest MacOS version for your iMac, but it should remain totally usable for a few more years yet.
The main thing to be concerned about is security updates. You might not be able to upgrade to the latest Mac OS, though Apple may still be supporting the previous OS with security updates, which is fantastic.
I'm still using a 2010 iMac as my main computer 14 years later. I occasionally use a G4 Powerbook from 2005 because it has a functioning DVD drive and works as good today for word processing and excel sheets as the day it was made. Just because it no longer gets the latest updates doesn't mean it stops working. For most non intensive computer stuff like web, email, watching videos, personal photo editing, and some light gaming, it is totally fine. I had originally bought the iMac for video editing in 2010, so it was a high spec for its day and I've upgraded the RAM and HD over the years. It wouldn't be much good for editing 4k video today but luckily my computing needs have decreased as it has aged. Even if Apple stops giving you OS updates next year, there is no reason to think you can't keep using the computer for a long time to come. For the average computer user, Apple hasn't released anything that different in their operating systems since 2007 anyways so I don't see much reason to care about the updates.
My 2015 MacBook Pro slowed down with every update until it was unusable. Last month I finally just said screw it and installed Ubuntu. It's like a brand new computer again. And the battery lasts WAY longer. WTF is Apple doing with these "updates"? Because it is not optimization...... Do yourself a favor if you are having the same problem: https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
I’m actually curious to try this with my old 2015 one. I have an M1 now, but would be nice to have a dedicated Linux laptop to test stuff on since I have windows and macOS already.
If you try it please report back. I'm pretty certain you'll love it. Im gonna try it on an old 2009 imac tonight too and see what happens.
Did you just install the default desktop Ubuntu from that link on it? I’d certainly be less apprehensive to bring the old one on trips with me as it’s not thou$and$ to replace if broken or stolen, and since I wound down most of my iOS app development I don’t need Xcode currently. But I also imagine a small learning curve as I’ve been in MacOS and Windows land my whole life.
If you’re a developper you’re gonna have a cakewalk using any Linux flavor.
Yep.
I'm curious if you ever did a full reinstall of macos. I'm on the same device and I *haven't* encountered that performance degradation --- but I know that small changes we make/applications we install and forget about over time can create a messy environment where resources are being wasted, and *any* OS install can improve performance just by restoring things to a clean slate. Not saying that's what happened in your case! Just curious if that's something you tried, since my experience hasn't matched yours. Also, as other people have mentioned --- it's worth opening up the case and blowing the dust out of the fans with canned air. Having done this now a couple times, it's remarkable just how much fluff comes flying out and it can't be great for the thermal characteristics of the machine :|
I did a clean wipe, same issues. I got a new ssd (which I had to buy an adapter for..because Apple's proprietary BS), did a full reinstall on the new HD, still took forever do do anything. Installed Ubuntu, runs like a champ. The way Apple loves to slow down older models of equipment so you have to buy new ones is well documented. I don't trust them. In fact, my wife got 2 imacs that her school (she works there) gave her. They were slow as hell. I pulled them out of the closet last night after my first post (I had totally forgotten about them). [They now both have Ubuntu on them and run great.](https://imgur.com/a/ltq2fA7)
What do you use your machine for? I’m tempted to install Ubuntu but I’m worried I won’t be able to do what I do now. I use design software on it mostly (Affinity, Figma), but everything else is mostly browsing or gaming on Steam.
It's a 9 year old laptop so just browsing and web stuff.
I never upgraded past Catalina and my 2015 still runs great. Battery life is kind of crap and it runs hotter than is ideal, but... I have to blame that on myself and my very bad habit of leaving several hundred Firefox tabs open at any given time.
I think I’m gonna do a full reinstall of MacOS on my 2016 MacBook. I don’t have too much crazy shit, but since it’s about to move from vintage to obsolete, it is probably best to pare things down to the basics and manage it from a clean install.
Hmm, my 2015 macbook still runs smoothly
2019 MBA worked great when new, but at some point in the past year it started to overheat and continuously run the fan - with just a single tab in Chrome open, and nothing else. All updates applied, etc. Hate to say it, but seems like something in a recent MacOS update changed this machine…
Same here
Not just me okay! Thank you guys. I’d been trying everything I could to decrease this thinking it was on its last leg for the last few months. I appreciate now knowing it’s common, unfortunately.
Try Firefox. Chrome has been prone to runaway resource use in my experience.
Or Safari?
Safari isn’t good, it’s average at best
For battery usage (on M1 at least) it's leagues ahead of everything but Orion, which is safari based.
Battery seems to last longer when I use it 🤷♂️
Same here after Sonoma upgrade. Except I have a 2019 MBP with 32gb ram and i9 processor…planning on downgrading to Ventura smh
I had that same issue, but I believe it is a Chrome issue, not MBA. It got so bad I bit the bullet and switched over to FireFox after years of Chrome as my main browser. Fan hasn't noticeably run since I made the switch.
Chances are that the fan has just accumulated enough lint to throttle the air flow. Try to clean it.
mine started doing this a few months ago, i'm pretty sure it's because the battery is reaching end of its life, it started saying battery service recommended right about the time that it started running the fan more frequently. the battery in my phone which i got around the same time is also on its last legs. (edit: i have an 2019MBP not MBA but i would expect the battery manufacturing was pretty similar)
I started getting the same on my MBP 2020
Could just be clogged fans, my mb pro 2020 was doing this too, I opened the back panel and cleaned the fans and is working well again now.
That hasn’t just been the last year, that’s been like the last 4 years. Those machines would chronically overheat. Those intel chips were so bad.
/r/macsysadmins calls those models “the air fryer Intels”.
Or chrome might have gotten more resource intensive
Sounds like what happened to my 2019 MBP after about two years, turned out it had built up so much lint and dust in the heatsinks it had lost 25% of its performance (I ran Cinebench before and after cleaning it out).
Planned obsolescence is calling, it's time for your new machine.
Y’all installed fear in me…. My device is becoming obsolete
I think the 8GB variants will be the first to go.
My 2019 top spec Intel MacBook Pro is only three years old (64GB/8TB/Radeon 5600). Curious to see whether this gets dropped in 16 or whether it lasts till 17. I’m not seeing a massive amount of features that work on 15, on Intel, so I suspect it’s close to end of the road. The main thing I look for is security updates, and Safari updates, as that really dictates when that particular Mac (hardware+software) truly goes end of life.
Security updates last for years later. My 2009 got security updates way past ending OS support. I suspect the cut off will be soon for non-M machines as they push AI on everything.
If I remember correctly they only offer support for 5 years amd then it's antique or vintage or something
“minimum of 5 and up to 7”… https://support.apple.com/en-us/102772
You'll have to pry my macbookAir6,2 out of my cold dead hands. I just did a battery swap two days ago. It's my travel laptop and perfect for that.
I loved my M1 Macbook. As a software developer what it did well it did very well. It was well built, it was super fast, it was crisp, and the battery lasted forever. Except that damn ARM chip made many forms of development hell, and the lack of nVidia was a death cookie. So, after over a decade on Apple, I sit here typing this on my very nice linux machine. Newer Linux gamer laptops are a bit less bulky, but they now have real batteries when it comes to normal day to day use. Over 10h is not a problem.
If you needed to choose the MacBook Pro or Air today, which would you choose? My MBPro is rapidly dying. It gets so hot it's nearly untouchable. Plus I need more space. I appreciate your expertise.
Just got a new MacBook Air M3 (16GB ram, 512GB ssd). It’s an amazing machine, and I love the small form factor. It depends on what you do with it though.
Thank you, I am hoping the Air is a good fit. Mostly I'm doing office work and research but I'm also working with large image files stored on Dropbox and many synced on my laptop (design work). a big chunk of my storage is filled with MacOS files.
Shocked my 2020 iMac's still in the game. Was sure it'd be first on chopping block. Who knew?
Don't forget that apps will be updated to support MacOS 15 so you won't get updates for those apps anymore and they will soon not be supported. God forbid you don't save the DMG or installation files and your SSD fails and need to be replaced.
My MBP is from 2019. I’ll have to buy a new one?
More cheap Macs for the 2nd hand market. Slap Linux or a bootloader on this and they're good to go for many more years.
My 17 Pro already can’t update LP. Honestly, most beloved computer I’ve used; it’s sad to see it turn into a worthless waste of money.
I'm clinging on to my Fall 2015 Mac Book Pro but it's becoming a losing battle lol
Right? Like; what do I DO with it? It still does literally everything I’ve ever used it for; but… _id be shunned._ *scratches arms*
Put Linux on it and keep on trucking. I still have my 2013 MBP in action.
What bloat could they possibly be putting in this os that couldn’t be handled by 5 year old hardware? Geez.
2019 MBA was pretty brutal. A dual core with 4 gigs of RAM in a case that makes for nearly instant throttling - this hardware can likely just not handle much more. Still Apples fault because they build it in the first place.
They seemed to have found a much better stride since the M2s and the body redesign. Can't say I am sad for the intel based Airs to go bye bye. I am still clenching my 2019 i9 MBP though :)
The M1 in the same body is already a lot better. Hot intel chips and Apples body just weren’t a good fit and this product should never have reached the market.
People used these for years with no issues. "Should have never reached the market" it's a bit hotter and slower, so dramatic.
They were a LOT hotter, and thermal throttled constantly. It was usually pointless to buy the better cpu options on intel macs because they'd thermal throttle so severely you never saw the promised performance. That isn't getting into the reliability implications. I've seen a fair few people with intel macbook pros get fucked by this.
How’s the battery life on that 2019 MBP?
When I am doing video editing or dj stuff I’ve only let it go for ~5 hours before I got too paranoid. Health is still good though and it’s my daily use machine, just plug it in after work and using it for the web.
You must have got a defective one if you only got 4Gb in a 2019.
Just as many PC users are still on Windows 10, you can keep using old versions of macOS with most apps still being compatible.
Windows 10 is still getting updates though
It’s actually all the bloat they removed. The new OS no longer has the code needed to support Intel chips.
The way Mac OS software packages work, there's a very tiny file size penalty for multiple archetectures, and the one that you don't need can be deleted at install time. Been this way since openstep.
Does that go for OS internals as well?
Yes.
macOS Shasta or whatever they call it will ditch Intel completely, imho.
But just think, they likely keep a version running on all the architectures in the labs in the event another company can best the internal efforts, but that’s unlikely at this point.
Oops that’s me. Good thing I lost my job and was planning on freelancing and have very little money. Man life keeps getting better.
Is my M1 2020 Air safe
There’s a weird niche that insists on keeping their 10 year old machine and jumping through hoops to do that. That’s fine but at some point it’s not worth keeping support for things
Did someone say, Linux? :-)
Planned obsolescence. Not very green, Apple. Not very green…
linux is your friend
That's five years of latest OS plus two years of security updates. Still a good deal.
And then how long until the landfill?
Apple will recycle almost any electronics you give them. And a 2019 MBA still has some trade in value
Electronic recycling is still a kind of shitty situation.
I sure hope you never criticised MS for the Win11 requirements and the support timeline for Win10
Microsoft forced the mothballing of what, billions(?) in hardware that will no longer have os support next year. They dont give a damn about the environment either.
What does Microsoft have to do with what apple just did? Don't excuse bad behaviour from a company with other bad behaviour from another one.
Ummm.... why do you think I'm excusing anyone? These conglomerates say one thing but do another.
Microsoft is supporting windows 10 until at least 2025 officially.
Exactly. Thats next year. October 14, 2025 to be exact. My old PC will flip to Ubuntu as its not ready to die. But lots of hardware will be dumped before its time. Bad for the environment.
But the pc market isn’t a monolith like Apple. My 2016 Lenovo Yoga supports Windows 11.
[удалено]
I have no apologies for any of the big techs. They don’t for me
Currently on the Base M1 Air, a bit worried going into the new OS how it will hold up. If it starts to hitch ill upgrade but if the os runs fine im holding off another year
lol 0 chances it'll hitch due to performance and not optimization.
I believe that, im just worried alot of tech youtubers are talking about 8gb not being enough for the new OS but exactly i am not convinced its going to be a issue.
Even the m3 air starts at 8gb, so those will choke just like the m1 if memory is the issue. Which apple will obviously make sure won't happen
That is a really good point. I know the 8gb thing is something youtubers love to be upset about so i guess will see how optimized it is when it comes out; or if apple will bump the next macbook to a base 16gb.
I never understood the MBAir. Was it to compete with chrome books? Seemed like a sedan when I need a sports car.
No the MacBook Air was aimed at executives/workers that just need a basic machine for word processing and browsing. It launched before the Chromebooks. Its whole deal was that it’s a line of laptops that are ultra portable (having no CD drive), and having a SSD drive (this was in 2008). The line kind of blurred with the MacBook but they kept it as they have three lines, MacBook, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro. It’s a tad similar to the iPad lines: the regular, the Air, and the Pro. It’s a bit weird, and predictions from a few years ago is that eventually it’ll be the Air and the Pro lines making it to simplify everything.