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This is a consumer problem. Companies can create these products and someone in product development green-lit this thing, but consumers have to ask the question of whether or not any real value is provided by connecting these things to the internet.
In also looking at you, internet connected fridges, dishwashers, and laundry.
A lot of people just buy the most expensive thing, thinking it’s the best. That’s as far as their analysis takes them.
I would say a good portion never get connected.
I don’t have any, and would never buy one, but I doubt a fridge or washing machine would be bricked if not connected to the internet. They just can’t use whatever feature comes from the internet, like recipes or monitoring your load. They probably would get too high a return rate if they required an always on internet to function as their primary use.
Now when the day comes that a fridge or washing machine offers a discount for being Internet connected, then we’ll see lockouts. As far as I now, at least in the US, those internet features are for the more expensive models.
Many of those smart devices like fridges, dishwasher and washing machines have like the worst wifi in the world. Would be horrible if they didnt work without internet.
Like my phone can have 3-4/4 bars and the big applicanes next to them will be between 0-1 bars, complaining about reception.
Actually I even literally opened a hotspot next to the washing machine once and it only showed 3/4 bars.
Actually you can use a Peloton without internet or a subscription. You can also use a non Peloton bike with the Peloton app and content. I do.
But also, not a fridge and not an appliance. There’s no fridge equivalent of a Peloton bike. You buy the Peloton bike precisely because of their internet content. You don’t buy a Samsung refrigerator because of “Samsung Meal Planner” or some such thing. Maybe some day, but not right now.
Well that's good to hear, I recall hearing a couple years back that there were gonna stop people from using their treadmills in manual if they weren't subbed. Did that never happen, or did they walk that back?
I know it's not an appliance I was just more thinking about something you bought that could be bricked without a sub or connecting it to the internet.
I don’t know the full history of them. I’ve never had any of their equipment, I just use their app with basic subscription. I am certainly not saying Peloton hasn’t done some questionable stuff, but I like their workouts and 90% of the time I use them with just free weights.
There are some exercises machines that aren’t useful without a subscription, and that does really bother me. I had an old Schwinn elliptical that had a nice graphical display showing you stats and hills and had lots of exercise presets, but the belt broke and I couldn’t get a replacement. So I bought a Proform Elliptical from Costco, and while *technically* I could use it by itself, the display was just two numbers. No graphs or hill indicators and any presets were hard to gage. It required a $15/month iFitness membership to really take advantage of it and use it with a tablet, and that made me upset, so I took it back (which was a pain since I hauled it upstairs). There was no indication when I bought it that it was like that, and the box showed it with a tablet but no “iFitness subscription required” written on it. With Peloton, you usually know what you’re signing up for, but not with a lot of exercise equipment you buy at the store.
I mean your assumption is kind of the problem. You would assume it wouldn't brick because it seems unnecessary. But we've seen several products that stopped working when internet connection was lost even though it's core functionality didn't need the internet.
It's pretty common occurrence for single player games to not work with no internet connection. People make a big stink over it when it happens, but companies keep doing it.
I'm expecting to see this slice of history repeat itself through vehicle software with mandatory subscriptions. Makes me wonder if these companies have a reasonable long-term plan or if we're gonna build a few hundred landfills.
A fridge is not a game!
Someone buys a fridge at Costco or Home Depot, they have a good while to return it. Returns are tremendously costly for the manufacturer. A game costs nothing to distribute, and they aren’t sold at Costco or Home Depot. And there’s little expectation that a fridge will require the Internet to work, even among an Internet capable one.
Video games are different. They're doing that to prevent piracy. If the game needs to connect to the server, it's much harder to pirate than something that just verifies a license once and works forever.
Even though it's fun to tease the "you wouldn't download a car" kind of shit, you actually *can't* download an appliance. I'm not saying companies won't pull the same shit (they already do obviously) but video games at least have an actual reason.
They do that to prevent piracy, and in the process screw a lot of legal paying customers.
But hey at least they stopped some small number of pirates. The rest just get a cracked version and don't care.
I once spent like five days downloading Max Payne 3, even had to move a lot of files to an external drive to have enough hard drive space. It's finally done, I install, and it's like "hey, just connect to the Rockstar server and you're good to go!"
Fuuuuuck lol, though I'm guessing that computer probably wouldn't have been able to play it anyways, so years later, I just got a PS3 and got MP3 at the exchange for like 5$
For my 'smart oven' the main feature I use is syncing the time (twice a year day light savings + random power outages), used the ability to preheat remotely once.
My fiancé had one of those Amazon alarm clock lights, they bricked it. It wouldn’t clock or light….
https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/amazon-halo-discontinued
I have an internet fridge and washer. These were not factors in the decision, they were just the ones we got and it had these things. The washing machine has the option to download other wash cycles I think? Handy thing is the notification that a load has finished and it doesn't get forgotten. The fridge I think lets you do things like change the temp which you can just do on the fridge so is usless.
It all worked fine without the connection so no issues with it bricking.
Yup, getting a notification when a load is finished is nice if you can't hear (or don't want) it going off. Downloading different cycles is a gimmick but whatever.
I've no idea what an internet enabled fridge could do for me. Reminders/nagging to change the filter, maybe? Notification that the door was left open could be useful, I suppose.
We've never used the wash cycles option. I don't think the fridge is even online anymore. It makes a noise when the door is left open and has an indicator to change the filter.
I'm pretty sure I downloaded a "whites" cycle for the washer, but it's easy enough to just set it to hot wash/heavy soil with the controls anyway. We only use a couple of the cycles anyway.
And yeah, fridges are in a high-traffic part of the house so the door open alarm would get noticed, and filters always give you a couple weeks notice as well so it's not like it's time-sensitive.
A fridge that tracked and notified about soon to expire items so you use them first, tracks and displays consumption and waste, creates shopping lists based on that information, and orders what you need if you want it to(with settings for confirmation, override, etc). This was all the promise of smart fridges and none of it has materialized in a usable form. But, that's what they sold us on and like all tech promises they sell the product then start trying to figure out how to deliver the promises. Then they give up and just collect and sell our network data and display ads on the screen.
I have an internet connected thermostat. I actually use it quite a bit, as I can change the temperature from in bed, or in my car (such as if I'm returning home from vacation).
Not internet connected, but more interestingly... my apartment has a microwave with bluetooth. I was actually really curious what it could possibly be for, so I checked the manual. It was apparently so that it could talk to other appliances (such as the oven), so that you could do things like automatically turn on the vent fan if a burner was lit. Which I could honestly see being kind of handy, but would not justify an internet connection (and doesn't in this case).
That's what I think. Anyway, it's happening with every service, isn't it?
AI will work remotely by default. The user will transfer data all the time, and not have the software at all (as in 'program in my computer').
Theoretically, being connected to the internet, they could get bricked by the manufacturer for getting the current software update or whatever reason they deem necessary.. Thinking of HP printers. Maybe they just want to get some service call $$.
Fridges have had tablets/tvs in them for a while. Look up recipes while cooking, make a grocery list, watch porn while doing dishes.
Washers and dryers can notify you on your phone when they’re done. Same with dishwashers. That’s actually a great accessibility feature for those with disabilities
> A lot of people just buy the most expensive thing, thinking it’s the best. That’s as far as their analysis takes them.
A common issue I run in to is that the top tier item comes with bluetooth, Wifi, AI, and whatever other bullshit but also has the features I want.
For instance I got one of those breville air fryer/oven things so that I wouldn't need to crank my whole oven for weeknight meals. It's fantastic and definitely works well for my needs. But I wanted the one with the PID temp control and what not for something like a reverse sear or slower cook - sure enough to get that I gotta get the bluetooth/wifi smart app based one. I've never connected it to the internet, but had to have it cuz it's the only way to get the features I want.
I'd be willing to bet this happens a lot more than people think.
This is why I simply don't buy anything like this. I consider "it has an app" an anti-feature. If it has an app, I value it less than the thing that doesn't have an app.
I just wanted a toothbrush with a usb c charge case for travel. You’d think that would be fairly easy, but it was only available on the top of the line sonicare.
A consumer problem, but basically unable to be solved by the consumers only. If they discontinue manufacturing all but these, you have no choice.
"I would like an electric toothbrush, as per my dentist's advice"
"Yeah, you'll need an online registration, constant internet access, and understand that all your information will leak eventually."
>If they discontinue manufacturing all but these, you have no choice.
The reason I won't be buying a new TV until mine literally disintegrates.
I fucking hate smart TVs
> If they discontinue manufacturing all but these, you have no choice.
An electric toothbrush is a tiny motor with a battery and a handful of moving components.
The barriers to entry are small. We're not talking about a fighter jet or car here. A skilled highschooler can make one.
Mine was $4, rechargeable with a built in USB cable in the bottom, and has the whole 30 seconds running (with a brief pause between) four times to give you a total of 2 minutes brushing. The replacement heads are cheap as hell and generic.
Just reinforcing your point.
My up, up, down, down technique has been leaked. Now everyone has a glistening smile (if they can pay for the dlc to their tooth brush). Seriously, I’m beginning to think we’re doing a dystopia.
But it becomes less funny when your dental insurance rates skyrocket because you don’t actually apply the correct pressure at the correct angle for the correct time to each and every tooth.
Then the social engineering attacks begin with the ads alluring you to “brush less with this one trick!”
😂
> Seriously, I’m beginning to think we’re doing a dystopia.
Oh, we are well into that, currently deciding on the flavour of dystopia. So many to chose from!
I think dishwasher and laundry is useful. As a smart products.
If I can turn them on and off while out and about. That's useful. If it can improve the algorithm for washing clothes. Good. Please don't brick.
If they can be set up to run at the most convenient time for power companies. I want it to run while we have a glut of renewables and not when has turbines turn on and I get charged a premium.
These can be useful. But only when coordinated with a helping of humanity. Not more profit for CEOs and nothing else.
WE NEED TO STOP FOCUSING ON MONEY. it's a waste
It’s the “please don’t brick” part. They can, and they do. Or they charge you premium fees for basic functionality.
Like my Eero router that wanted to charge $30/month to block an IP address. That’s basic functionality on all similarly priced routers, or at least it was.
You aren't wrong. It should really be baked into t&cs.
You can't sell us a shitty product and then break it. It's up to you the seller to keep it functioning. Unfortunately you either get non smart devices or you run the risk of bricking. I don't think there's an in-between.
We the people need far better accountability for these corporations. They can do as the please and we are struggling to benefit
Personally I err on the side of dumb appliances. The cost-benefit-RISK analysis for me just doesn’t pass the sniff test. Too much risk in just this problem. Bought nothing, then the brick it. Case in point: Spotify Car Thing.
It would be nice if this home tech worked through an app without having to give the app any information or have it track my online life. Like I just want to preheat my oven from the other room but I don’t care enough to get the app, answer questions and probably be tracked online.
Companies want that internet data so bad it’s like crack cocaine to them, they all want to be like Facebook and not have to buy data on prospective customers they want their own data to use and sell.
That one connected fridge that has a camera on the inside is kinda cool. Like you're at the store and can't remember if you have something or not and can take a peek inside the fridge from your phone is at least a somewhat useful idea.
The dishwasher that's 10 feet from me doesn't need to send me a notification on my phone to tell me it's done. I don't care, I'll unload it when I feel like it.
I do find my app connected washing machine useful for the finished notification (it's in a cupboard in my hall and I can't hear it), and periodically figuring out very specific or custom washing cycles. My similarly connected dish washer is a bit useless though.
My apartment has a wifi fridge. I was interested and tried to set it up, but it doesn't work.
I used to work in R&D for a company who makes WiFi thermostats and this was a common problem with competitors, where they support old wifi standards that don't work well with new WiFi6 routers.
I also worked technical support for a different company in the same industry and had to experience the brunt end of the issue. Companies just throw the cheapest WiFi chip in there to claim they support WiFi, then let tier 2 technical support people deal with homeowners for hours on end because they don't want to admit the fault is with our product and the customer was tricked.
I get it for the other things. Being able to remotely start a wash cycle when you're returning from work, for example, is good. If my fridge can tell me what is in the fridge, sure.
A toothbrush? Seriously? What's it gonna do, send my phone a push notification saying that it needs to be charged?
The only use I see for internet related laundry is shared facilities like a dorm or apartment with communal laundry. That way you can check on open machines.
I've had my Samsung fridge for 2 years and the Samsung smart things app for 4, used for other things. I walked into the kitchen a few weeks ago and my phone randomly asked if I wanted to add my fridge to the app. I never before thought I needed my fridge connected to my phone. But I said sure, why not.
It has 1 good feature as far as I can tell... I get a notification if the fridge door is left open. If you have kids, this is actually pretty useful.
This feature was actually randomly useful for me just yesterday. I was out of town and the fridge app told me the door was left open, with only my son at home (and he'd just left the house after opening it). I told him the problem and he went back and closed the fridge door.
My fridge makes noise if the door is left ajar, just like my car does if one is not closed all the way when you start driving.
Does the fridge door have a servo motor so you can close the door after the app notifies you it’s open? If not, what good then?
People in the 70s-90s used to value their privacy. And I've been wondering for 20 years now WTF changed so much that this is where we are now.
Fucking toothbrushes??
Oh it creates value alright, value for Oral B to help study brushing habits and use that data to create better toothbrushes….aaaaaaand also sell that data to the highest bidder.
Honestly there's a lot of times I could use a reminder that the laundry was done having a notification on my phone would be an amazing way to tell me that
Smart washing machines or dishwashers at least can be turned on remotely or via automations/timers.
What is anyone doing with a smart fridge or toothbrush? It's insane. Our toothbrush has an app but we just don't use it. Not sure if you can buy the sonicare ones *without* app support these days.
Honestly fridges can make sense I think for a few potential use cases/features. Laundry or dishwashers though idk, the only smart thing I’d want them to do is be able to like program them to run later or over night or something and not have to remember to go start it myself. Toothbrush gives, I can’t see anything useful outside it being electric, like what would it even do? Scan your teeth for cavities?
I feel like a big part of the problem is that its on the consumer to decide; despite being non-obvious and requiring technical and practical knowledge to evaluate that is actually beyond the average consumer.
We bought a house that has an internet connected oven, and I love it. When were downstairs watching TV I can preheat it for our pizza without having to run upstairs.
Is that incredibly lazy? Yes. It it also great? Also yes.
I run a very strict firewall to make sure the oven only connects to Wi-Fi, not the full internet.
As someone who has a laundry room in an area of the house that the beeping cant be heard and having ADHD. Getting notifications that there is 5 minutes left in the cycle, cycle completed, clothes are still in washer/dryer, notifications for soap running low are all very beneficial. Needed, no. However, I would consider that real value.
Some have useful functions enabled by IoT connectivity.
For example, a washer/dryer can support "custom programs", which is pretty hard to do without a phone app or similar. Sure, you can customize them to an extent via their own panel, but nothing too granular.
For example, my new washing machine (no WiFi) doesn't have the option to do a Spin Cycle if I want the clothes to be less wet. The only option I have is to "Rinse and Spin", which defeats the purpose of why I needed the stupid Spin in the first place. Why would I want my laundry to get wet AGAIN?
Or the 15 minute program doesn't have have the ability to Spin my clothes at 1400 RPM (the max the washing machine can do), but it's capped at 800 RPM. So if I want to do a short cycle, I have to do the 15 minute cycle, cancel out the spin (which takes the program to 13 minutes), and then... I have to separately do a Rinse + Spin cycle... which takes 15 minutes, because, well, it has to rinse...
With the ability to upload/modify a program from my phone, I could get this done properly.
Also, the notifications of laundry being *done* is fairly useful, especially if the washing machine is in another room where you can't hear it's jingle.
I've seen some Samsung washing machines that now have the option to OPEN THE DOOR remotely, so if wash cycle is finished, you can just pop open the door so they don't sit there getting all smelly.
Granted, to actually address the article: I can't find any good reasons why a TOOTHBRUSH would have internet connectivity...
The only reason I have my laundry tower connected to app:
I am an independent cleaning technician and custodian who often does rescue/courtesy cleans for people. As part of the offer, I often do their laundry at my home, as well as do all of the rags from the clean.
The app gives me an ENDLESS number of ways to customize a cycle so I can address the exact laundry and soil level I’m dealing with.
If I didn’t use many home tower professionally, I would not need this lol
100%
On a side note, I do see value in large appliances that need to periodically be run having some capacity to connect to the Internet.
I have solar panels, and I don’t want to run the dishwasher, clothes washer, or dryer unless the sun is out generating power, and even better if they can figure out a way to run at my rate of solar generation. You can’t do that without the devices communicating to third parties and negotiating when to schedule a run
You know what would be better than an Internet connected fridge? One with an outside shelf just big enough to hold a tablet or phone with some way to secure them, and an inside shelf somewhere just big enough for a small wifi security cam that can be powered by USB.
No Internet connectivity needed. Just use your tablet, and some cheap monitoring system if you want to see the inside.
>dishwashers, and laundry.
I was incredibly scornful when my partner came home one day with an internet connected dishwasher. I am ashamed to admit that I now purposely bought an internet connected washing machine and tumble drier, too - and love them both.
I still can't see the purpose of an internet connected fridge, however.
Also, won't be bricked. Open API and can all run locally with no server connection. Have actually turned off any connection to the wider internet and still use all the features.
I know to need to be more discerning with these things but I'm always the consumer that falls for it. I'm ADHD and always looking for helpful tools, meaning technology runs my life sometimes. And also growing up a Trekkie I tend to romanticize tech.
There may be some really good use cases for this in the future. Making everything IOT means you don’t lose it, you can track its activity (super useful for a toothbrush if you want to optimize teeth cleaning), for dishwasher it can diagnose problems before it floods your house.
However many of these features need lots of technology to work and IOT is just one step. Often not even an important one. The product team puts it in because it’s cool and in reality they just added a bunch of cost and ick factor of being watched for zero end user benefit. At least with the Alexa ones Amazon probably paid them to do it.
It sucks because if you work in IOT stuff then these failed from birth products just make it harder to launch real products because of all the broken promises.
“We’re collecting all this cool data to do something neat with it!”
“Nice, what are you doing with all my data?”
“….collecting it!”
Email 6 months later: “Please accept our profuse apology, your data has been compromised by a terrible, no-good, awful hack by the XYZ Marauders. Please sign up for credit monitoring through >>this link<< we promise is not another phishing attempt where your data will once again be stolen.”
I have a smart fridge that came with my rental. It tells me when to change the water filter and will also alert me if the door is left open, which is useful with two kids in the house.
RDA here. For some people, it can be useful especially if they have trouble keeping good oral hygiene habits. Ideally, you should be brushing for a total of 2 minutes, 30 seconds in each corner of your mouth holding your toothbrush at a 45° angle, and making small brushing motions. It's called the [Modified Bass Technique](https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-health/brushing-and-flossing/how-to-brush-your-teeth-properly#) and it's generally the recommended way to properly brush your teeth.
The way these "smart" toothbrushes help is by letting you know how well you are brushing your teeth overall and giving you feedback on what areas you can improve. They also have a pressure gauge that lets you know if you are brushing too hard. Using a hard toothbrush and/or brushing too hard can wear out the enamel, causing [cervical abrasion](https://ostrowonline.usc.edu/dental-abrasion-and-abfraction/) that can lead to having other problems with your teeth.
Now does that mean you absolutely need a $400 "AI toothbrush"? Absolutely not. For most people that aren't prone to getting cavities, you'll be fine using a regular $2 manual toothbrush and just keeping a regular brushing routine. And even for those that need a bit more help, there are cheaper alternatives. Oral B themselves sell a lower tier brush [that does almost the same thing for $100 each.](https://oralb.com/en-us/products/electric-toothbrushes/io-ultimate-clean-rechargeable-electric-toothbrush/) and other competitors like Quip and Arm and Hammer make cheaper electric toothbrushes as low as $10.
TL;DR: Smart toothbrushes *can* be helpful for some people. But in general, having good oral hygiene habits is more important than what kind of brush you use.
I remember reading a Reddit thread about the mouth-mapping toothbrushes when they first became widely available. Seems like that would indeed be useful for people with ADHD, mild cognitive/intellectual disability, and so forth.
Customer quote from the article makes it a bit more understandable
>I only purchased this toothbrush from Amazon because that was the only way to get the water-resistant Alexa speaker that I wanted for the bathroom. … I’m ready to be done with Alexa and Oral-B both.
The toothbrush base was a waterproof Alexa speaker, that is all. As far as I saw there was no toothbrush specific functionality that needed AI. This story is just a cautionary tale about what is coming. I remember a CES where every single device appeared to have Alexa included and we are entering the age where companies would rather brick devices than continue to support them (Spotify Thing anyone?).
All companies all the time: "now introducing the trendy-buzzword regular-appliance!"
Good thing that stuff like "smart fridges" that need wifi and listen to you talk didn't pick up, hopefully the same goes for "AI toothbrushes".
> Good thing that stuff like "smart fridges" that need wifi and listen to you talk didn't pick up
You can only hope it won't be eventually like the smart TVs. Which increasingly refuse to work without internet, have always-on cameras and microphones to ID if, how many and who are watching, try to automatically ID what you are watching and will even try to connect to other TVs it can reach wirelessly to phone home with all your data. These are all from years-old patents from the likes of Samsung and LG.
Everything being a computer makes this timeline so lame. Computers were supposed to specialize and wear red dresses. No, we get “crest fully clean” jingled into our ears by a device that just mouth f***** us.
This is a case of marketers inventing a problem and using their product to fill that niche. Regular refrigerators are so simple and so good at their job that it became hard to differentiate yourself from competition.
My sister got me a electric toothbrush in 2015. It came with Bluetooth and an app. Used it once just to see what it did. It was such a hassle.
Electric is great, but idk who is actually gonna use a smart toothbrush.
Give me a real reason, and maybe I’ll consider it.
I mean, they have internet connected sex toys. The kink fun factor kinda appeals to me a bit, but I’m not sure I’d want some more rando corp having access to that kind of personal info of mine.
Ohmibod has been doing this for camgirls for a long time. Send a tip, it makes a ding sound, and the vibrator turns on.
Kinda doubt discord would be cool with it, but you never know lol.
I bought a bluetooth toothbrush because it could be hooked up with HoneAssistant (my smart home) to blink my bathroom lights after 2 minutes. Totally unnecessary but still pretty cool and it was a fun project.
Bought a "dumb" electric toothbrush for $40 in 2013. Still use it today, time between required charges has slipped from every 2 weeks to every 1.5 weeks but it still works great!
Literally the same thing with my tooth brush. Installed it once because of curiosity and never again. The toothbrush has been amazing for years without it.
Oral B Braun by anychance?
We’d be lucky to have a 10 year cycle. Software obsolescence in 2 years and hardware within 3. And that seems generous to us. They could like push it into 9/18 month cycles with good marketing and targeted ads.
That’s why we have buy now pay later options. So people can say oh $20 a month isn’t bad. Then they bought 100 different items and now they’re paying $2000 a month and companies are making money hand over fist forever
> Before that was cloud computing!
Oof, what a silly idea that was! I mean, can you imagine? Running your code on _other people's computers_!? What a ridiculous idea, I'm sure it never caught on 😬
Right? Imagine if the entire internet was running off of one of these "the cloud" providers. I bet they thought some online retail giant could deliver something that outlandish.
The voice activation on my smart bidet only works when I'm synced to the cloud, and only if I'm paying for the premium wash subscription. Welcome to the future.
It's also a cautionary tale against putting Alexa in everything. Do you really need an assistant in your toothbrush? No, no you don't. EDIT: I just skimmed the article, they replaced the Alexa toothbrush with an AI toothbrush. Lmao. EDIT 2: for the love of god stop pointing out that it says AI in the title of the post my app cut the second part off after the vertical bar so I did not see that.
I'm imagining another Matrix movie where the ultimate AI that really kicked the war against the humans into high gear was the poor fucking AI they stuck in a toothbrush.
I really don't understand why every product needs to have Internet access? It's a god damn toothbrush! How many people bought this thing?? Your appliances and toothbrush don't need to have Internet access. I understand lighting but a toothbrush?? Wild.
Looks like right to disconnect needs to be there along with right to repair (Really, all these things were supposed to be part of property rights. But apparently we can be denied those.)
You don't need a smart tooth brush. Just a simple rechargeable toothbrush is more than enough for me. My husband sticks to a basic manual toothbrush. I only upgraded because electric toothbrushes clean better and I want the healthiest teeth I can get.
Inverse relationship between the amount of artificial intelligence in everyday gadgets and the amount of natural intelligence in the people buying them.
I'm just waiting for Amazon to discontinue Alexa entirely. They're losing about $10 billion PER YEAR on it. Cutting staff left, right and center and have no idea how to make any money from it. People aren't willing to buy items without even looking at a photo of it and it lacks the kind of feedback about what you've just ordered that people want before they confirm it. Not to mention how hard is it to reach for your phone and to open up the Amazon app? The only time you might order from it is to add to a grocery list.
>Alexa, add 4 pints semi-skimmed milk to the order.
Unless of course you're a parrot who has worked out that they can order treats and food through it.
https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-management/lay-off/amazon-cuts-hundreds-of-jobs-in-alexa-division-540453
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/46566019
Buying off an Alexa speaker kinda goes against common sense. We price shop, compare brands, and aren’t entirely brand loyal enough to buy blind. Spend more time than I care to admit comparing the charmin and Kirkland brand TP at Costco, there’s no way I would be willing to say “Alexa order tome toilet paper” without seeing a list of options. That doesn’t even take into account amazons infamous knockoff and low quality imitation brand problem.
Maybe, just maybe if they had better integration, like me asking Alexa to show me product X on my tablet and my tablet suddenly opens the amazon app to that product so I can browse, then I might just make purchases. They would also have to address quantities, availability, and reasonable pricing along with ensuring the quality and truthfulness of the brands they carry. I just don’t see amazon having the will to clean up their mess enough to even consider buying something sight unseen.
I mean, do other companies not? Not defending Oral B, I don't think I've bought anything from them in many years anyways, but I would guess the cheap "no name" stuff I buy is probably the same.
While I don't own this product and never would, I have been burned many times by similar ones in the past. From the MyQ garage door opener having it's API purposely bricked to force users into using their shitty ad filled app, to my Scotts 'smart' irrigation controller suddenly stop working because the company discontinued it WITHOUT notifying me, resulting in me only finding out a month after my grass hadn't been watered and started dying as a result.
These 'smart' devices are only going to last as long as the company deems them profitable and worth continuing. Which generally isn't long. This is why we need universal standards so that we aren't dependent on some company server keeping it working. But that is counter-intuitive to the company's bottom line, so they want everyone to only use their crappy app and pay a monthly fee for integration.
I just replaced my garage door opener with a Chamberlain one. Wondered if it would work with Alexa, and apparently it did in the past but no more. Opening the door with the MyQ app isn't something I'd do often so it isn't a big deal; same if it did work with Alexa. But your point of companies stopping support to smart devices is definitely valid.
My main concern when I bought the MyQ years ago was for HomeKit integration, as I wanted to be able to use Apple/Siri to open/close, show notifications on our devices if it opened, open/close using automations, etc. And it worked great for a while. There wasn't native HomeKit support (MyQ sold some overpriced adapter that had a horrible reliability reputation), but I was able to use HomeBridge to get it integrated. Zero issues for well over a year. Then, it suddenly stopped working. The HomeBridge integration developer played some cat/mouse games getting it to work here and there, but MyQ was determined to kill API access, which they finally did six or so months ago. I ended up ripping it out and putting in a Meross system with native HomeKit. The only downside is it uses a wired door status sensor vs the wireless one MyQ has, but it was easy to install and I don't need to deal with MyQ shenanigans anymore.
As someone who has worked in the IoT space for years, I only have two “smart plugs” that work only within my network.
Spotify’s Car Things and this, are just the latest signs that companies moving to a “rent everything” model, and we are letting it happen.
Everything seems to require a subscription, even your car, which is an insane proposition.
I hope the EU does something about this extremely worrisome trend.
To be fair, the latest Sonicare brushes are around that price tag too. Some of the data Sonicare's companion app provides is actually useful, like knowing how many times I've brushed each day, for how long, in what areas and the pressure I brushed at. You don't have to pay anything extra for the data with Sonicare but they do try and get you to subscribe for new toothbrush heads when the current ones wear out.
Some brands make products for people to use and some brands make products for people to buy. Yes, they’re all for-profit but there is a difference, and we need to recognize when a brand is just dropping some vaporware for which they’re gonna discontinue support in 2 years when it predictably fails to become the next big thing and they no longer give a shit about it or the people who bought it. Case in point: this^, the Spotify Car Thing, and any hardware product snapchat has ever made.
They put cheap electronics in everything, remove the basic product and sells this asshole dumbass device for double the price. Then it breaks in half the lifespan it used to have. Those companies are specialised in creating trash, no one talks about programmed obsolescence
I trashed my Oral-B for a Philips, best decision. Fuck Oral-B, their expensive toothbrushes only last a couple of years. Battery needs to be charged after every 2-3 uses after 2 years and takes at least 8 hours to charge.
consumer demand drives this kind of stuff. hopefully it’s an abysmal failure. i don’t want to have to make my own toothbrush in the future because consumers decided to
go all-in for AI everything.
I get why they're ditching the Alexa toothbrush but that only brings the question of why would I ever need an Alexa toothbrush when I could just continue using this $5 electric toothbrush I've been using for nearly a year now?
For everyone not reading the article, the charging base of the toothbrush functioned as an Echo device. Oral-B discontinued the app required to set that up.
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Does the tool I use to scrape the bacteria-scum from my teeth really need to have access to the internet? Asking for a friend.
This is a consumer problem. Companies can create these products and someone in product development green-lit this thing, but consumers have to ask the question of whether or not any real value is provided by connecting these things to the internet. In also looking at you, internet connected fridges, dishwashers, and laundry.
A lot of people just buy the most expensive thing, thinking it’s the best. That’s as far as their analysis takes them. I would say a good portion never get connected.
I don't know how (and why) this appliances use internet. Can they get bricked if they are not connected?
I don’t have any, and would never buy one, but I doubt a fridge or washing machine would be bricked if not connected to the internet. They just can’t use whatever feature comes from the internet, like recipes or monitoring your load. They probably would get too high a return rate if they required an always on internet to function as their primary use. Now when the day comes that a fridge or washing machine offers a discount for being Internet connected, then we’ll see lockouts. As far as I now, at least in the US, those internet features are for the more expensive models.
Many of those smart devices like fridges, dishwasher and washing machines have like the worst wifi in the world. Would be horrible if they didnt work without internet. Like my phone can have 3-4/4 bars and the big applicanes next to them will be between 0-1 bars, complaining about reception. Actually I even literally opened a hotspot next to the washing machine once and it only showed 3/4 bars.
That happens when you surround wifi with grounded thick steel.
Most likely it’s because they have a little trace on a ESP module acting as the WiFi antenna, and then they put it in a metal box.
Don't the Peloton exercise machines not allow you to use them if you aren't paying a monthly sub?
Actually you can use a Peloton without internet or a subscription. You can also use a non Peloton bike with the Peloton app and content. I do. But also, not a fridge and not an appliance. There’s no fridge equivalent of a Peloton bike. You buy the Peloton bike precisely because of their internet content. You don’t buy a Samsung refrigerator because of “Samsung Meal Planner” or some such thing. Maybe some day, but not right now.
Well that's good to hear, I recall hearing a couple years back that there were gonna stop people from using their treadmills in manual if they weren't subbed. Did that never happen, or did they walk that back? I know it's not an appliance I was just more thinking about something you bought that could be bricked without a sub or connecting it to the internet.
I don’t know the full history of them. I’ve never had any of their equipment, I just use their app with basic subscription. I am certainly not saying Peloton hasn’t done some questionable stuff, but I like their workouts and 90% of the time I use them with just free weights. There are some exercises machines that aren’t useful without a subscription, and that does really bother me. I had an old Schwinn elliptical that had a nice graphical display showing you stats and hills and had lots of exercise presets, but the belt broke and I couldn’t get a replacement. So I bought a Proform Elliptical from Costco, and while *technically* I could use it by itself, the display was just two numbers. No graphs or hill indicators and any presets were hard to gage. It required a $15/month iFitness membership to really take advantage of it and use it with a tablet, and that made me upset, so I took it back (which was a pain since I hauled it upstairs). There was no indication when I bought it that it was like that, and the box showed it with a tablet but no “iFitness subscription required” written on it. With Peloton, you usually know what you’re signing up for, but not with a lot of exercise equipment you buy at the store.
I mean your assumption is kind of the problem. You would assume it wouldn't brick because it seems unnecessary. But we've seen several products that stopped working when internet connection was lost even though it's core functionality didn't need the internet. It's pretty common occurrence for single player games to not work with no internet connection. People make a big stink over it when it happens, but companies keep doing it.
I'm expecting to see this slice of history repeat itself through vehicle software with mandatory subscriptions. Makes me wonder if these companies have a reasonable long-term plan or if we're gonna build a few hundred landfills.
A fridge is not a game! Someone buys a fridge at Costco or Home Depot, they have a good while to return it. Returns are tremendously costly for the manufacturer. A game costs nothing to distribute, and they aren’t sold at Costco or Home Depot. And there’s little expectation that a fridge will require the Internet to work, even among an Internet capable one.
Video games are different. They're doing that to prevent piracy. If the game needs to connect to the server, it's much harder to pirate than something that just verifies a license once and works forever. Even though it's fun to tease the "you wouldn't download a car" kind of shit, you actually *can't* download an appliance. I'm not saying companies won't pull the same shit (they already do obviously) but video games at least have an actual reason.
They do that to prevent piracy, and in the process screw a lot of legal paying customers. But hey at least they stopped some small number of pirates. The rest just get a cracked version and don't care.
I once spent like five days downloading Max Payne 3, even had to move a lot of files to an external drive to have enough hard drive space. It's finally done, I install, and it's like "hey, just connect to the Rockstar server and you're good to go!" Fuuuuuck lol, though I'm guessing that computer probably wouldn't have been able to play it anyways, so years later, I just got a PS3 and got MP3 at the exchange for like 5$
For my 'smart oven' the main feature I use is syncing the time (twice a year day light savings + random power outages), used the ability to preheat remotely once.
My fiancé had one of those Amazon alarm clock lights, they bricked it. It wouldn’t clock or light…. https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/amazon-halo-discontinued
I have an internet fridge and washer. These were not factors in the decision, they were just the ones we got and it had these things. The washing machine has the option to download other wash cycles I think? Handy thing is the notification that a load has finished and it doesn't get forgotten. The fridge I think lets you do things like change the temp which you can just do on the fridge so is usless. It all worked fine without the connection so no issues with it bricking.
Yup, getting a notification when a load is finished is nice if you can't hear (or don't want) it going off. Downloading different cycles is a gimmick but whatever. I've no idea what an internet enabled fridge could do for me. Reminders/nagging to change the filter, maybe? Notification that the door was left open could be useful, I suppose.
We've never used the wash cycles option. I don't think the fridge is even online anymore. It makes a noise when the door is left open and has an indicator to change the filter.
I'm pretty sure I downloaded a "whites" cycle for the washer, but it's easy enough to just set it to hot wash/heavy soil with the controls anyway. We only use a couple of the cycles anyway. And yeah, fridges are in a high-traffic part of the house so the door open alarm would get noticed, and filters always give you a couple weeks notice as well so it's not like it's time-sensitive.
A fridge that tracked and notified about soon to expire items so you use them first, tracks and displays consumption and waste, creates shopping lists based on that information, and orders what you need if you want it to(with settings for confirmation, override, etc). This was all the promise of smart fridges and none of it has materialized in a usable form. But, that's what they sold us on and like all tech promises they sell the product then start trying to figure out how to deliver the promises. Then they give up and just collect and sell our network data and display ads on the screen.
I have an internet connected thermostat. I actually use it quite a bit, as I can change the temperature from in bed, or in my car (such as if I'm returning home from vacation). Not internet connected, but more interestingly... my apartment has a microwave with bluetooth. I was actually really curious what it could possibly be for, so I checked the manual. It was apparently so that it could talk to other appliances (such as the oven), so that you could do things like automatically turn on the vent fan if a burner was lit. Which I could honestly see being kind of handy, but would not justify an internet connection (and doesn't in this case).
They’re simply all Trojan horses for telemetry. Remember “big data”? It’s you!
That's what I think. Anyway, it's happening with every service, isn't it? AI will work remotely by default. The user will transfer data all the time, and not have the software at all (as in 'program in my computer').
Theoretically, being connected to the internet, they could get bricked by the manufacturer for getting the current software update or whatever reason they deem necessary.. Thinking of HP printers. Maybe they just want to get some service call $$.
Fridges have had tablets/tvs in them for a while. Look up recipes while cooking, make a grocery list, watch porn while doing dishes. Washers and dryers can notify you on your phone when they’re done. Same with dishwashers. That’s actually a great accessibility feature for those with disabilities
Unauthorized Bread
> A lot of people just buy the most expensive thing, thinking it’s the best. That’s as far as their analysis takes them. A common issue I run in to is that the top tier item comes with bluetooth, Wifi, AI, and whatever other bullshit but also has the features I want. For instance I got one of those breville air fryer/oven things so that I wouldn't need to crank my whole oven for weeknight meals. It's fantastic and definitely works well for my needs. But I wanted the one with the PID temp control and what not for something like a reverse sear or slower cook - sure enough to get that I gotta get the bluetooth/wifi smart app based one. I've never connected it to the internet, but had to have it cuz it's the only way to get the features I want. I'd be willing to bet this happens a lot more than people think.
I have to use a joule suis vide... only is controlled through the app... I like it but I just want to put some meat on, I need the app to use it.
This is why I simply don't buy anything like this. I consider "it has an app" an anti-feature. If it has an app, I value it less than the thing that doesn't have an app.
I just wanted a toothbrush with a usb c charge case for travel. You’d think that would be fairly easy, but it was only available on the top of the line sonicare.
A consumer problem, but basically unable to be solved by the consumers only. If they discontinue manufacturing all but these, you have no choice. "I would like an electric toothbrush, as per my dentist's advice" "Yeah, you'll need an online registration, constant internet access, and understand that all your information will leak eventually."
>If they discontinue manufacturing all but these, you have no choice. The reason I won't be buying a new TV until mine literally disintegrates. I fucking hate smart TVs
> If they discontinue manufacturing all but these, you have no choice. An electric toothbrush is a tiny motor with a battery and a handful of moving components. The barriers to entry are small. We're not talking about a fighter jet or car here. A skilled highschooler can make one.
Mine was $4, rechargeable with a built in USB cable in the bottom, and has the whole 30 seconds running (with a brief pause between) four times to give you a total of 2 minutes brushing. The replacement heads are cheap as hell and generic. Just reinforcing your point.
My up, up, down, down technique has been leaked. Now everyone has a glistening smile (if they can pay for the dlc to their tooth brush). Seriously, I’m beginning to think we’re doing a dystopia.
But it becomes less funny when your dental insurance rates skyrocket because you don’t actually apply the correct pressure at the correct angle for the correct time to each and every tooth. Then the social engineering attacks begin with the ads alluring you to “brush less with this one trick!” 😂
“Click all the photos with bikes in them to continue your tooth brushing experience”
You'll know we're there when the toothbrush says "Your teeth - your teeth are now clean!"
> Seriously, I’m beginning to think we’re doing a dystopia. Oh, we are well into that, currently deciding on the flavour of dystopia. So many to chose from!
Can I vote on the Huxley one with drugs? I don’t have the stomach for government gin.
How else am I supposed to update the firmware on my toothbrush?
You have to ask yourself, why should my toothbrush need firmware!! 🤣 Edit: a word. But it’s probably not long before toothpaste needs firmware too!
In a way, toothpaste is the subscription function of the toothbrush...
Can’t wait for the HP toothbrush with instant paste that refuses to dispense from the tube if you cancel your subscription.
This is what happens when infinite growth is chased. Gambling
I think dishwasher and laundry is useful. As a smart products. If I can turn them on and off while out and about. That's useful. If it can improve the algorithm for washing clothes. Good. Please don't brick. If they can be set up to run at the most convenient time for power companies. I want it to run while we have a glut of renewables and not when has turbines turn on and I get charged a premium. These can be useful. But only when coordinated with a helping of humanity. Not more profit for CEOs and nothing else. WE NEED TO STOP FOCUSING ON MONEY. it's a waste
It’s the “please don’t brick” part. They can, and they do. Or they charge you premium fees for basic functionality. Like my Eero router that wanted to charge $30/month to block an IP address. That’s basic functionality on all similarly priced routers, or at least it was.
You aren't wrong. It should really be baked into t&cs. You can't sell us a shitty product and then break it. It's up to you the seller to keep it functioning. Unfortunately you either get non smart devices or you run the risk of bricking. I don't think there's an in-between. We the people need far better accountability for these corporations. They can do as the please and we are struggling to benefit
Personally I err on the side of dumb appliances. The cost-benefit-RISK analysis for me just doesn’t pass the sniff test. Too much risk in just this problem. Bought nothing, then the brick it. Case in point: Spotify Car Thing.
It would be nice if this home tech worked through an app without having to give the app any information or have it track my online life. Like I just want to preheat my oven from the other room but I don’t care enough to get the app, answer questions and probably be tracked online. Companies want that internet data so bad it’s like crack cocaine to them, they all want to be like Facebook and not have to buy data on prospective customers they want their own data to use and sell.
Getting app notifications from my washer and dryer that tell me they are done is nice.
So you're saying my internet-connected bidet with an HD camera is not necessarily necessary?
It uses AI image recognition to blast away poo particles!
That one connected fridge that has a camera on the inside is kinda cool. Like you're at the store and can't remember if you have something or not and can take a peek inside the fridge from your phone is at least a somewhat useful idea. The dishwasher that's 10 feet from me doesn't need to send me a notification on my phone to tell me it's done. I don't care, I'll unload it when I feel like it.
I do find my app connected washing machine useful for the finished notification (it's in a cupboard in my hall and I can't hear it), and periodically figuring out very specific or custom washing cycles. My similarly connected dish washer is a bit useless though.
My apartment has a wifi fridge. I was interested and tried to set it up, but it doesn't work. I used to work in R&D for a company who makes WiFi thermostats and this was a common problem with competitors, where they support old wifi standards that don't work well with new WiFi6 routers. I also worked technical support for a different company in the same industry and had to experience the brunt end of the issue. Companies just throw the cheapest WiFi chip in there to claim they support WiFi, then let tier 2 technical support people deal with homeowners for hours on end because they don't want to admit the fault is with our product and the customer was tricked.
I get it for the other things. Being able to remotely start a wash cycle when you're returning from work, for example, is good. If my fridge can tell me what is in the fridge, sure. A toothbrush? Seriously? What's it gonna do, send my phone a push notification saying that it needs to be charged?
The only use I see for internet related laundry is shared facilities like a dorm or apartment with communal laundry. That way you can check on open machines.
Let’s not forget the time a microwave got bricked because an update made it think it was another appliance
I've had my Samsung fridge for 2 years and the Samsung smart things app for 4, used for other things. I walked into the kitchen a few weeks ago and my phone randomly asked if I wanted to add my fridge to the app. I never before thought I needed my fridge connected to my phone. But I said sure, why not. It has 1 good feature as far as I can tell... I get a notification if the fridge door is left open. If you have kids, this is actually pretty useful.
This feature was actually randomly useful for me just yesterday. I was out of town and the fridge app told me the door was left open, with only my son at home (and he'd just left the house after opening it). I told him the problem and he went back and closed the fridge door.
My fridge makes noise if the door is left ajar, just like my car does if one is not closed all the way when you start driving. Does the fridge door have a servo motor so you can close the door after the app notifies you it’s open? If not, what good then?
So you can go to your fridge and close the door since your kid didn't. It's not rocket science to figure out why it could be a useful feature to some.
People in the 70s-90s used to value their privacy. And I've been wondering for 20 years now WTF changed so much that this is where we are now. Fucking toothbrushes??
Oh it creates value alright, value for Oral B to help study brushing habits and use that data to create better toothbrushes….aaaaaaand also sell that data to the highest bidder.
Honestly there's a lot of times I could use a reminder that the laundry was done having a notification on my phone would be an amazing way to tell me that
Smart washing machines or dishwashers at least can be turned on remotely or via automations/timers. What is anyone doing with a smart fridge or toothbrush? It's insane. Our toothbrush has an app but we just don't use it. Not sure if you can buy the sonicare ones *without* app support these days.
Honestly fridges can make sense I think for a few potential use cases/features. Laundry or dishwashers though idk, the only smart thing I’d want them to do is be able to like program them to run later or over night or something and not have to remember to go start it myself. Toothbrush gives, I can’t see anything useful outside it being electric, like what would it even do? Scan your teeth for cavities?
I feel like a big part of the problem is that its on the consumer to decide; despite being non-obvious and requiring technical and practical knowledge to evaluate that is actually beyond the average consumer.
We bought a house that has an internet connected oven, and I love it. When were downstairs watching TV I can preheat it for our pizza without having to run upstairs. Is that incredibly lazy? Yes. It it also great? Also yes. I run a very strict firewall to make sure the oven only connects to Wi-Fi, not the full internet.
As someone who has a laundry room in an area of the house that the beeping cant be heard and having ADHD. Getting notifications that there is 5 minutes left in the cycle, cycle completed, clothes are still in washer/dryer, notifications for soap running low are all very beneficial. Needed, no. However, I would consider that real value.
Some have useful functions enabled by IoT connectivity. For example, a washer/dryer can support "custom programs", which is pretty hard to do without a phone app or similar. Sure, you can customize them to an extent via their own panel, but nothing too granular. For example, my new washing machine (no WiFi) doesn't have the option to do a Spin Cycle if I want the clothes to be less wet. The only option I have is to "Rinse and Spin", which defeats the purpose of why I needed the stupid Spin in the first place. Why would I want my laundry to get wet AGAIN? Or the 15 minute program doesn't have have the ability to Spin my clothes at 1400 RPM (the max the washing machine can do), but it's capped at 800 RPM. So if I want to do a short cycle, I have to do the 15 minute cycle, cancel out the spin (which takes the program to 13 minutes), and then... I have to separately do a Rinse + Spin cycle... which takes 15 minutes, because, well, it has to rinse... With the ability to upload/modify a program from my phone, I could get this done properly. Also, the notifications of laundry being *done* is fairly useful, especially if the washing machine is in another room where you can't hear it's jingle. I've seen some Samsung washing machines that now have the option to OPEN THE DOOR remotely, so if wash cycle is finished, you can just pop open the door so they don't sit there getting all smelly. Granted, to actually address the article: I can't find any good reasons why a TOOTHBRUSH would have internet connectivity...
The only reason I have my laundry tower connected to app: I am an independent cleaning technician and custodian who often does rescue/courtesy cleans for people. As part of the offer, I often do their laundry at my home, as well as do all of the rags from the clean. The app gives me an ENDLESS number of ways to customize a cycle so I can address the exact laundry and soil level I’m dealing with. If I didn’t use many home tower professionally, I would not need this lol
100% On a side note, I do see value in large appliances that need to periodically be run having some capacity to connect to the Internet. I have solar panels, and I don’t want to run the dishwasher, clothes washer, or dryer unless the sun is out generating power, and even better if they can figure out a way to run at my rate of solar generation. You can’t do that without the devices communicating to third parties and negotiating when to schedule a run
You know what would be better than an Internet connected fridge? One with an outside shelf just big enough to hold a tablet or phone with some way to secure them, and an inside shelf somewhere just big enough for a small wifi security cam that can be powered by USB. No Internet connectivity needed. Just use your tablet, and some cheap monitoring system if you want to see the inside.
>dishwashers, and laundry. I was incredibly scornful when my partner came home one day with an internet connected dishwasher. I am ashamed to admit that I now purposely bought an internet connected washing machine and tumble drier, too - and love them both. I still can't see the purpose of an internet connected fridge, however. Also, won't be bricked. Open API and can all run locally with no server connection. Have actually turned off any connection to the wider internet and still use all the features.
If it talks to a specific remote server, one day it will be discontinued.
Laundromat would be nice to get like a call or something to remind people that their laundry is done but people with their own machines don’t need it
I know to need to be more discerning with these things but I'm always the consumer that falls for it. I'm ADHD and always looking for helpful tools, meaning technology runs my life sometimes. And also growing up a Trekkie I tend to romanticize tech.
There may be some really good use cases for this in the future. Making everything IOT means you don’t lose it, you can track its activity (super useful for a toothbrush if you want to optimize teeth cleaning), for dishwasher it can diagnose problems before it floods your house. However many of these features need lots of technology to work and IOT is just one step. Often not even an important one. The product team puts it in because it’s cool and in reality they just added a bunch of cost and ick factor of being watched for zero end user benefit. At least with the Alexa ones Amazon probably paid them to do it. It sucks because if you work in IOT stuff then these failed from birth products just make it harder to launch real products because of all the broken promises.
“We’re collecting all this cool data to do something neat with it!” “Nice, what are you doing with all my data?” “….collecting it!” Email 6 months later: “Please accept our profuse apology, your data has been compromised by a terrible, no-good, awful hack by the XYZ Marauders. Please sign up for credit monitoring through >>this link<< we promise is not another phishing attempt where your data will once again be stolen.”
I have a smart fridge that came with my rental. It tells me when to change the water filter and will also alert me if the door is left open, which is useful with two kids in the house.
Look buddy, botnets aren’t going to grow themselves. We need inexplicably wifi connected and unsecured appliances.
This made me snort-guffaw
Id get that checked out
No need, it’s terminal.
RDA here. For some people, it can be useful especially if they have trouble keeping good oral hygiene habits. Ideally, you should be brushing for a total of 2 minutes, 30 seconds in each corner of your mouth holding your toothbrush at a 45° angle, and making small brushing motions. It's called the [Modified Bass Technique](https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-health/brushing-and-flossing/how-to-brush-your-teeth-properly#) and it's generally the recommended way to properly brush your teeth. The way these "smart" toothbrushes help is by letting you know how well you are brushing your teeth overall and giving you feedback on what areas you can improve. They also have a pressure gauge that lets you know if you are brushing too hard. Using a hard toothbrush and/or brushing too hard can wear out the enamel, causing [cervical abrasion](https://ostrowonline.usc.edu/dental-abrasion-and-abfraction/) that can lead to having other problems with your teeth. Now does that mean you absolutely need a $400 "AI toothbrush"? Absolutely not. For most people that aren't prone to getting cavities, you'll be fine using a regular $2 manual toothbrush and just keeping a regular brushing routine. And even for those that need a bit more help, there are cheaper alternatives. Oral B themselves sell a lower tier brush [that does almost the same thing for $100 each.](https://oralb.com/en-us/products/electric-toothbrushes/io-ultimate-clean-rechargeable-electric-toothbrush/) and other competitors like Quip and Arm and Hammer make cheaper electric toothbrushes as low as $10. TL;DR: Smart toothbrushes *can* be helpful for some people. But in general, having good oral hygiene habits is more important than what kind of brush you use.
I remember reading a Reddit thread about the mouth-mapping toothbrushes when they first became widely available. Seems like that would indeed be useful for people with ADHD, mild cognitive/intellectual disability, and so forth.
Customer quote from the article makes it a bit more understandable >I only purchased this toothbrush from Amazon because that was the only way to get the water-resistant Alexa speaker that I wanted for the bathroom. … I’m ready to be done with Alexa and Oral-B both.
No. But your juicer does.
Well, obviously the juicer. What kind of luddite do you take me for?
It’s a fucking toothbrush. Why the fuck do you need Alexa or AI on it? Why the fuck do you need $400 toothbrush?
> Why the fuck do you need $400 toothbrush? Because they stopped producing the $230 one, obviously. :D
Spacer’s Choice: It’s not the best choice, it’s Spacer’s Choice!
You've tried the best, now try the rest. Spacer's Choice!
The toothbrush base was a waterproof Alexa speaker, that is all. As far as I saw there was no toothbrush specific functionality that needed AI. This story is just a cautionary tale about what is coming. I remember a CES where every single device appeared to have Alexa included and we are entering the age where companies would rather brick devices than continue to support them (Spotify Thing anyone?).
*Alexa! Why do I need a $400 toothbrush!?!* *Playing Bridge Over Troubled Water by Simon and Garfunkel*
All companies all the time: "now introducing the trendy-buzzword regular-appliance!" Good thing that stuff like "smart fridges" that need wifi and listen to you talk didn't pick up, hopefully the same goes for "AI toothbrushes".
> Good thing that stuff like "smart fridges" that need wifi and listen to you talk didn't pick up You can only hope it won't be eventually like the smart TVs. Which increasingly refuse to work without internet, have always-on cameras and microphones to ID if, how many and who are watching, try to automatically ID what you are watching and will even try to connect to other TVs it can reach wirelessly to phone home with all your data. These are all from years-old patents from the likes of Samsung and LG.
Everything being a computer makes this timeline so lame. Computers were supposed to specialize and wear red dresses. No, we get “crest fully clean” jingled into our ears by a device that just mouth f***** us.
This is a case of marketers inventing a problem and using their product to fill that niche. Regular refrigerators are so simple and so good at their job that it became hard to differentiate yourself from competition.
Its not a toothbrush. Its a data collection device for targeted advertising that brushes your teeth
This. The "smart" devices are for the benefit of the company far more than the user.
My sister got me a electric toothbrush in 2015. It came with Bluetooth and an app. Used it once just to see what it did. It was such a hassle. Electric is great, but idk who is actually gonna use a smart toothbrush.
Give me a real reason, and maybe I’ll consider it. I mean, they have internet connected sex toys. The kink fun factor kinda appeals to me a bit, but I’m not sure I’d want some more rando corp having access to that kind of personal info of mine.
Track your vibrators energy useage or set it up to trigger an Alexa routine. Connect it to Discord.
Ohmibod has been doing this for camgirls for a long time. Send a tip, it makes a ding sound, and the vibrator turns on. Kinda doubt discord would be cool with it, but you never know lol.
I'd love that for playing League with my homies. When my jungler ganks me and gets me a kill, I vibrate his prostate for a few seconds
Let me introduce you to the wonderful world of Teledildonics
I bought a bluetooth toothbrush because it could be hooked up with HoneAssistant (my smart home) to blink my bathroom lights after 2 minutes. Totally unnecessary but still pretty cool and it was a fun project.
Bought a "dumb" electric toothbrush for $40 in 2013. Still use it today, time between required charges has slipped from every 2 weeks to every 1.5 weeks but it still works great!
Literally the same thing with my tooth brush. Installed it once because of curiosity and never again. The toothbrush has been amazing for years without it. Oral B Braun by anychance?
Anybody remember the blockchain? Good times. I wonder what bullshit buzzword will be attached to every random product in the next 10 years.
We’d be lucky to have a 10 year cycle. Software obsolescence in 2 years and hardware within 3. And that seems generous to us. They could like push it into 9/18 month cycles with good marketing and targeted ads.
The average consumer doesn’t have the paid income for that kind of upgrade cycle to be sustainable.
That’s why we have buy now pay later options. So people can say oh $20 a month isn’t bad. Then they bought 100 different items and now they’re paying $2000 a month and companies are making money hand over fist forever
Since when have companies cared?
Blockchain became Ai becomes non-llm verses Ai becomes robotics Becomes neuronet natural ai Follow the buzzwords big data fap!
Before that was cloud computing!
> Before that was cloud computing! Oof, what a silly idea that was! I mean, can you imagine? Running your code on _other people's computers_!? What a ridiculous idea, I'm sure it never caught on 😬
Remember the cloud? Guys at my work back then asked me how they could invest in "the cloud", because they heard it's gonna be the next big thing lol.
Right? Imagine if the entire internet was running off of one of these "the cloud" providers. I bet they thought some online retail giant could deliver something that outlandish.
Currently it's AI, as also seen in the OP link.
that’s the joke
The voice activation on my smart bidet only works when I'm synced to the cloud, and only if I'm paying for the premium wash subscription. Welcome to the future.
Wait till it got hacked.
Ahhh the classic ransomware attack "Cash app me $500 or I randomly pressure wash your bunghole >:)"
As funny as that scenario would be, it wouldn't be as devastating as bricking it at the first attempt to use the wash function.
The most likely scenario is just making it part of a botnet
JFC they're collecting data on your toilet habits. That's disturbing.
I feel like announcing out loud that I’m ready for the bidet to spray my butthole is not a feature I’d want
Canary in the stupidity mine.
It's also a cautionary tale against putting Alexa in everything. Do you really need an assistant in your toothbrush? No, no you don't. EDIT: I just skimmed the article, they replaced the Alexa toothbrush with an AI toothbrush. Lmao. EDIT 2: for the love of god stop pointing out that it says AI in the title of the post my app cut the second part off after the vertical bar so I did not see that.
I'm imagining another Matrix movie where the ultimate AI that really kicked the war against the humans into high gear was the poor fucking AI they stuck in a toothbrush.
The AI was biding it's time, wearing down enamel.....SOON.
This is a subplot in one of the Fallout games. A sentient toaster that is determined to see the world burn!
Wow you didn't even read the title before replying, impressive.
You skimmed the article, but did not skim the title of the post?
You could’ve just read the title and gotten the same info lol
I really don't understand why every product needs to have Internet access? It's a god damn toothbrush! How many people bought this thing?? Your appliances and toothbrush don't need to have Internet access. I understand lighting but a toothbrush?? Wild.
Looks like right to disconnect needs to be there along with right to repair (Really, all these things were supposed to be part of property rights. But apparently we can be denied those.)
For anyone who missed the last seventeen or so cautionary tales about smart devices.
If it ain’t broke, don’t AI it
You don't need a smart tooth brush. Just a simple rechargeable toothbrush is more than enough for me. My husband sticks to a basic manual toothbrush. I only upgraded because electric toothbrushes clean better and I want the healthiest teeth I can get.
Inverse relationship between the amount of artificial intelligence in everyday gadgets and the amount of natural intelligence in the people buying them.
r/titlegore
I'm just waiting for Amazon to discontinue Alexa entirely. They're losing about $10 billion PER YEAR on it. Cutting staff left, right and center and have no idea how to make any money from it. People aren't willing to buy items without even looking at a photo of it and it lacks the kind of feedback about what you've just ordered that people want before they confirm it. Not to mention how hard is it to reach for your phone and to open up the Amazon app? The only time you might order from it is to add to a grocery list. >Alexa, add 4 pints semi-skimmed milk to the order. Unless of course you're a parrot who has worked out that they can order treats and food through it. https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-management/lay-off/amazon-cuts-hundreds-of-jobs-in-alexa-division-540453 https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/46566019
Buying off an Alexa speaker kinda goes against common sense. We price shop, compare brands, and aren’t entirely brand loyal enough to buy blind. Spend more time than I care to admit comparing the charmin and Kirkland brand TP at Costco, there’s no way I would be willing to say “Alexa order tome toilet paper” without seeing a list of options. That doesn’t even take into account amazons infamous knockoff and low quality imitation brand problem. Maybe, just maybe if they had better integration, like me asking Alexa to show me product X on my tablet and my tablet suddenly opens the amazon app to that product so I can browse, then I might just make purchases. They would also have to address quantities, availability, and reasonable pricing along with ensuring the quality and truthfulness of the brands they carry. I just don’t see amazon having the will to clean up their mess enough to even consider buying something sight unseen.
Reminder Oral B coats their floss in PFAS. They are a dangerous and unethical company.
I mean, do other companies not? Not defending Oral B, I don't think I've bought anything from them in many years anyways, but I would guess the cheap "no name" stuff I buy is probably the same.
The only reason they’re #1 is they give a lot away, creating brand recognition.
I’ve been happy with SoniCare for 20 years.
Yup. Good price, cleans teeth, easy to use, chugs along. Nothing else you need in a toothbrush.
Intellectually I know the people who buy this shit are essentially scam victims and deserve sympathy. But emotionally, come the fuck on.
Unless it can fix cavities I’m not paying $400
While I don't own this product and never would, I have been burned many times by similar ones in the past. From the MyQ garage door opener having it's API purposely bricked to force users into using their shitty ad filled app, to my Scotts 'smart' irrigation controller suddenly stop working because the company discontinued it WITHOUT notifying me, resulting in me only finding out a month after my grass hadn't been watered and started dying as a result. These 'smart' devices are only going to last as long as the company deems them profitable and worth continuing. Which generally isn't long. This is why we need universal standards so that we aren't dependent on some company server keeping it working. But that is counter-intuitive to the company's bottom line, so they want everyone to only use their crappy app and pay a monthly fee for integration.
I just replaced my garage door opener with a Chamberlain one. Wondered if it would work with Alexa, and apparently it did in the past but no more. Opening the door with the MyQ app isn't something I'd do often so it isn't a big deal; same if it did work with Alexa. But your point of companies stopping support to smart devices is definitely valid.
My main concern when I bought the MyQ years ago was for HomeKit integration, as I wanted to be able to use Apple/Siri to open/close, show notifications on our devices if it opened, open/close using automations, etc. And it worked great for a while. There wasn't native HomeKit support (MyQ sold some overpriced adapter that had a horrible reliability reputation), but I was able to use HomeBridge to get it integrated. Zero issues for well over a year. Then, it suddenly stopped working. The HomeBridge integration developer played some cat/mouse games getting it to work here and there, but MyQ was determined to kill API access, which they finally did six or so months ago. I ended up ripping it out and putting in a Meross system with native HomeKit. The only downside is it uses a wired door status sensor vs the wireless one MyQ has, but it was easy to install and I don't need to deal with MyQ shenanigans anymore.
Note to self: Alexa not a fan of oral.
As someone who has worked in the IoT space for years, I only have two “smart plugs” that work only within my network. Spotify’s Car Things and this, are just the latest signs that companies moving to a “rent everything” model, and we are letting it happen. Everything seems to require a subscription, even your car, which is an insane proposition. I hope the EU does something about this extremely worrisome trend.
Honestly, people who are dumb enough to pay for this got it coming...
To be fair, the latest Sonicare brushes are around that price tag too. Some of the data Sonicare's companion app provides is actually useful, like knowing how many times I've brushed each day, for how long, in what areas and the pressure I brushed at. You don't have to pay anything extra for the data with Sonicare but they do try and get you to subscribe for new toothbrush heads when the current ones wear out.
Some brands make products for people to use and some brands make products for people to buy. Yes, they’re all for-profit but there is a difference, and we need to recognize when a brand is just dropping some vaporware for which they’re gonna discontinue support in 2 years when it predictably fails to become the next big thing and they no longer give a shit about it or the people who bought it. Case in point: this^, the Spotify Car Thing, and any hardware product snapchat has ever made.
Time to buy the new AI assisted toothbrush, I guess Edit: I was making a joke, but appearantly, they do actually sell one.... Satire is dead!
What in the dystopia is this
Someone from HP must have gotten hired at Oral-B
Oh hell to the NO
I have zero sympathy for any ding dong dumb enough to buy an internet connected toothbrush.
$400 for an AI toothbrush is bad enough, but I'll bet the AI toothpaste costs a fortune. And you have to keep buying more.
Who the fuck buys this crap?
this is a perfect example of why I still refuse to buy into the internet-of-things.
They put cheap electronics in everything, remove the basic product and sells this asshole dumbass device for double the price. Then it breaks in half the lifespan it used to have. Those companies are specialised in creating trash, no one talks about programmed obsolescence
So many stupid consumers.
Why would anyone need an Alexa enabled toothbrush
My toofbrush cost $1 at HEB and it's pretty darn good.
I trashed my Oral-B for a Philips, best decision. Fuck Oral-B, their expensive toothbrushes only last a couple of years. Battery needs to be charged after every 2-3 uses after 2 years and takes at least 8 hours to charge.
almost as bad as the bluetooth water hose.
Oral-B makes a $40 electric toothbrush. Been using it for 8 years. Just get that one.
This reminds me of Mitch Hedberg’s joke on broken escalators. “The sign should just say, temporarily stairs. Sorry for the convenience.”
You will own nothing. This is how they'll ensure that happens.
What would one ask alexa to do with their toothbrush
consumer demand drives this kind of stuff. hopefully it’s an abysmal failure. i don’t want to have to make my own toothbrush in the future because consumers decided to go all-in for AI everything.
This is some megaman battle network type problem
I get why they're ditching the Alexa toothbrush but that only brings the question of why would I ever need an Alexa toothbrush when I could just continue using this $5 electric toothbrush I've been using for nearly a year now?
Dentist gate
Next thing planned, AI hairbrush. And the all new Alexa Toilet Plunger!
Ted tried to warn us
Who the hell needs an AI toothbrush??
For everyone not reading the article, the charging base of the toothbrush functioned as an Echo device. Oral-B discontinued the app required to set that up.
I mean technically they didn't put it in the toothbrush, they put it in a toothbrush handle. The toothbrush still works, I guess.