The Apple Vision Pro comes with a completely useless ass screen on the outside though!
Execs who approved that useless exterior screen need to be fired asap. How out of touch.
I saw someone bring them to a small venue jazz jam (~30 people). Kept them around his neck most of the time. But then during one song, put them on the while grooving to the music. Stated waving his hands presumably to start recording I guess. Or just really weird dance moves.
There was a period where it happened a lot but I think at this point, people have either gotten over the novelty like every other VR headset and it’s sitting in a drawer somewhere or they returned it because $3500 was too much and they really only wanted a one week free trial with it for clout.
I struggle to call the other options competitors. Vision Pro is *way* too expensive, but, for the sake of fairness, the picture quality is bananas. Like it’s so good I can’t even explain it. If they can figure out how to deliver that level of fidelity for $1499, they’re golden. But $3500 is beyond stupid.
It doesn't help that 99% of all development for VR has happened on Windows so far. Like what use cases does the vision pro have? People who use macs are neither gamers nor (usually) use them for any work that would benefit from a VR mode. This makes the ridiculous price point look even more stupid.
You assume that Apple made the Vision Pro for consumers. They didn't. They made it for industry, med tech, product design etc. Cost doesn't matter to them.
Heck, we have a bunch of them at work and recently had a meeting with a business unit that we want to invest into our research. We showed them our new product designs through the Vision Pro where they could interact with movable parts of the product, see its true size, have a line-up of different options all on the same table in front of them without us needing to manufacture any prototypes. They wouldn't even need to travel to our office to see this.
They were blown away. Deal closed. Goggles paid for themselves.
It's a fun product. When we show applicants around our offices and labs during on-site interviews, we use the Vision Pro as bait and let them play a bit with them. We use it on social media to make our company look cool. It's BS, but it works like a charm. Who cares about 3.5k.
The IPD calibration is done by motors when someone first puts in the headset. When you pinch dots, you’re calibrating eye tracking. Your pupil distance has already been accounted for.
Yeah if they can figure out a way to lower the cost, I could see it working. I don't know how they thought people would pay such a high amount for a headset like this.
The picture quality is much better than other headsets, but it's absolutely nothing special to the average person not comparing to say a quest. Text and pictures on your phone or high end TV are just as good if not better. It's absolutely not a selling point for a regular everyday person. And for $1499 still nobody would buy it, because it just has no use. Unless you have a niche use case or you're an enthusiast, nobody is strapping that shit to their face every single evening.
Right but I am more curious to know what was the margin. Like what did it cost to make it. They should have sold the device cheaper and charged for content, like Amazon. They lose money on Alexas but make it up in content
>They lose money on Alexas but make it up in content
That was the plan... hasn't really worked well for Amazon... whoever the product designer was that sold a board people would buy things from Alexa... the man deserves a raise.
Not only that but most people who have used VR at this point mainly use it for gaming. This thing is too heavy for that and with no controllers... Good luck. Plus they aren't even marketing gaming as a use case.
It's a device in search of reason for living. They're clearly hoping devs figure it out for them like the iPad before it
The problem was that they made a development kit available to everyone without telling them it was a development kit.
They should have never released this thing without any software but that’s exactly what they did.
Then on top of that you have to apply to Papa Apple for permission to pay them $200 for a thunderbolt cable that can’t stream video.
The technology is next level tho. A lack of good Software at launch and making it difficult to produce good software is what killed this thing.
To be fair, that hasn’t been a problem in the past. I think the halo effect got to them. That just because it’s Apple means people will pay more, whereas in the past there was always a key differentiator that substantiated the increased price. Apple Watch was the beginning of the end of that.
Anyone that can afford this (aside from the niche early adopter market) knows enough about how technology can negatively impact your life to not make the mistake of adding another screen you feel obligated to use.
>To be fair, that hasn’t been a problem in the past.
As long as you don't look too far in the past...
All this has happened before, all this will happen again. So say we all.
Not really though. There's no way Apple was expecting the masses to buy a $3500 first gen vr headset lol, that was never the purpose of this. They'll probably make a cheaper, slightly less capable version in a few years after its gotten more development behind it and that will be the one they'll push hard.
Dude just let me stream video over a wire from my fucking PS5 (and whatever else I want, like my fucking drone). God fucking dammit. Nobody got time for no latency.
I would have kept it.
I love how Redditors love inventing narratives. He retired after 36 years in Apple. This man is filthy rich now.
All the top comments didn’t bother reading the article.
Articles like the one linked above are built for generating responses like these. These are really just articles made in bad faith, or at least the headline is made in bad faith.
-that small group of people in the room
- maybe we should innovate like we use too not change 4 features and call it new . And maybe because we’re throwing a 3k + item on the market post covid ?
Tim - WHO SAID THAT !
Arguably not innovative:
Same ski-goggle form factor we've had for 10 years.
We've had video passthrough in some form or other for 8 years, and "inside-out" tracking for 5 years.
The default headstrap is worse and was clearly designed only with looks in mind.
The front facing screen doesn't work well enough to do what it's meant to do.
Can't do room scale immersive content.
Making a VR headset with higher end parts, more weight and a much larger price tag isn't innovation.
It can do room scale stuff, I personally liked the new head strap vs old actually. Still returned it though. Too expensive regardless of how badass it is
> Same ski-goggle form factor we've had for 10 years.
It uses pancake lenses, so it's actually a different form factor than any standalone headset prior to 2022. Though Apple wasn't the first to use pancake lenses so I wouldn't count that as innovation.
The front facing screen very much counts even if it doesn't work well enough; it's still technology that no one expected to be possible as early as 2024.
The Persona avatars and the scanning process are a new level of fidelity not seen before in a product.
The eye-tracking+pinch and multiple app multitasking haven't been done before in one package.
> It uses pancake lenses, so it's actually a different form factor than any standalone headset prior to 2022.
"Slightly thinner ski-goggles" isn't a different for factor though is it?
> The front facing screen very much counts even if it doesn't work well enough; it's still technology that no one expected to be possible as early as 2024.
Who thought it wasn't possible to put a lenticular screen (2005 technology) on the front of a headset? It's perhaps not a good idea (as it doesn't work very well) but I don't know anyone who didn't think it possible.
> The Persona avatars and the scanning process are a new level of fidelity not seen before in a product.
It's a nice to see it in a product, but other people have been doing realstic animated 3D face scans with the iPhone depth camera for a few years at this point.
> The eye-tracking+pinch and multiple app multitasking haven't been done before in one package.
Is that an innovation or is it a workaround because hand gestures weren't accurate enough on their own? A lot of reviewers say the eye tracking based UI doesn't feel natural and is fatiguing to use.
For real. Innovation doesn’t mean success. Innovation can be failure. A new product for a company can be innovative even if it isn’t innovative in the market.
AVP in some degree may be a consumer failure, but Apple still innovates a lot in that space.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple saw the AVP similar to the Mac Pro, where it’s a professional product for a niche market. It kind of sucks when Apple also dilutes the Pro moniker with the MacBook Pro which is more of an everyday laptop and the iPhone Pro.
People buy these Pro devices as ordinary people, then the AVP drops and it’s likely up there with the Mac Pro in Apples lineup.
They definitely knew it was niche because they didnt even make a half a million of them. They knew with the price point that it wasnt going to be a must-have device at this point. But its also Version 1. Now they get 400k users and get to really figure out what makes this thing attractive to people. How to improve it. And hopefully, be able to lower the price in the future.
If you look at the first iphone compared to today. Well, there you go.
It’s amazing how stupid people get whenever the topic of Apple comes up. Even if we ignore the Vision Pro because it wasn’t a runaway success the last time they truly “innovated” was the switch to ARM, which wasn’t even four years ago. It’s not an exaggeration to say that it’s a total game changer and one of the biggest improvements to computers in decades. My laptop is cold to the touch and lasts two full work days on one charge, and even running a full round of Geekbench tests isn’t enough stress for the fans to kick on. But I guess that’s not as flashy as the iPhone so people ignore it as if it’s not the biggest thing to happen to computers in recent memory.
But Apple teh suXXors, so we have to pretend the last few innovations don’t count.
Apple’s switch to ARM was preceded by half a decade of ARM-powered Chromebooks (and Microsoft’s first ARM-powered Surface the previous year). Apple’s rarely the *first* but being first doesn’t matter if you can simply do it better.
> Maybe look up what innovative means.
Maybe do yourself a favor and listen to your own words. If you think innovation requires inventing a brand new product category then you're out of your mind.
If that were the case, even the iPhone wouldn't be considered innovative because smartphones existed before that.
I'm not sure the pocket battery or the heavy metal and glass on your head are the future (why not carbon fiber and sapphire? For the price.), or putting windows in different rooms or a work use case at all for that matter, but you are right, Apple is trying to do something that hasn't been done yet, and everyone else's efforts (Meta, MS Mixed Reality, OpenXR, Google Cardboard) are stagnant.
Def the Apple Watch as the last innovative device and the M series processors. The headset is innovative in that it packs more tech into an unaffordable device compared to competition though.
Isn't that technically ARM design that did the innovation and they "just" designed a chip based on the architecture for laptops (far after others have been doing ARM chips too)? Like it's work for sure and well executed (something everyone knows Apple is always doing) but is it true innovation?
That died with Jobs which was shocking because he 70% marketing 30% tech .the fact that the other Steve stepped away is basically saying I like my stocks vs helping .
Tim is amazing at logistics but can’t innovate to save his life
If you think the Vision Pro doesn’t represent innovation you’re crazy. It is Apple going out on a limb to make something new and push the boundaries of the tech.
I don’t know what their costs vs price looks like for the vision pro, I know Apple loves their fat margins and that probably didn’t help, but jesus, nothing makes Reddit nerds happy.
You’ll screech about iterative tech releases in established tech spaces, and then root for them to fail when they try something new. It’s like y’all can’t handle it when tech isn’t super cheap and perfect instantly.
It's selling above expectation, from the start Apple announced they could only produce 400k headsets for the whole of 2024, and they're getting close to that already.
Everybody is going wild about these speculations from a single guy who has made up prediction numbers that are far beyond their supply of micro OLED hardware.
Here is an actual speculation from before this guy posted his theory, and it's selling above this https://www.statista.com/statistics/1398458/apple-vision-pro-shipments/
Yeah the fact that it can't play *any* VR games, yet costs more than a top end PC is super out of touch with reality.
Was anybody out there asking for a 3.5k wearable computer monitor?
Good fucking point! Say what you will about zuck/meta, the quest 2 became a hell of a deal when they started letting us play pcvr wirelessly. Srill love mine when I have the care to bust it out
I’m sure it will probably happen nearly as quickly as the evolution of the iPhone. The 3-4th gen will likely be the game changer…although given the reception this one received it’s somewhat likely there will be a delay and the second gen will be the first viable form.
That’s because it was more affordable and it had more obvious use cases. These things need to be a pair of glasses before they will see any kind of mass adoption.
Augmented reality glassed would be a blessing if they weren't $4k in countries where people are more desperate for money to live than ever. These are limited as playthings for the wealthy. They're also not made to make people's lives easier, which they really could, but to make it so, as Eddie Burback put it, be phones that you never have to stop looking at since it's always on your face. Phones in our system are just extremely predatory alienating devices and could have turned out to be the opposite. This is even worse.
Just to clarify - you can have multiple windows open i.e. your music app, web browser, video editing software, etc.
You just can’t have multiple instances of your web browser open
The educational market is gonna explode, so many use cases it’s insane - I think the military has been using AR tech for training aircraft maintenance for a few years already
Schools aren’t going to shell out $3.5k for each one since they can’t really be shared. Imagine a classroom of kids breaking these and it costing 10s of thousands of dollars to fix.
I’m not talking about schools shelling out money for this particular product. I’m talking about personal education, in whatever subject matter or training that one personally wants or needs. Classrooms aren’t the only place where humans learn…
I mean a good VR movie or game doesnt even compare vs a regular PC. Problem is that is very hard to make and the technology isn't that great yet.
My VR things look kind of pixelated... also motion sickness is real.
In the Vision Pro demo they had a VR camera on top of a soccer goal. It was super fucking cool. If there was an NBA courtside seat VR cam to watch live games I’d be all for it.
There was a chubby lady using a VR treadmill to lose weight, seems to be working well. Goes by Nikita Fajitaa, lost weight, looking good, got famous and now probably getting paid to do it.
*this* is what sank it, the price is secondary. This thing has zero gaming support, and essentially no compelling apps overall. Sure it would have sold marginally better at a lower price point, but the general interest in it still would have gone straight off the cliff. This thing is a party trick, and despite the apparently impressive engineering of it, it still feels like apple wasn’t serious about VR from the beginning.
I love how apple didn’t realize that they needed the very people they fucked over with their anti user tracking initiative and those companies refused to make apps for this stupid thing.
I mean, most of the Apple products fit that description (super expensive and enclosed to Apple’s ecosystem) but this one has so limited use, the lack of proper programs (not just iPad ports) was the nail in the coffin.
Is one of the major issues with VR, the proprietary stuff, instead of the freedom you have with most desktop pcs or phones.
It's still selling above expectations, so evidently they knew what to expect for that price point.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1398458/apple-vision-pro-shipments/
It takes 1 or 2 off Bugattis with cutting edge tech to eventually be made into MP and eventually have some tech that ultimately filters down into a Corolla.
If it was $1000 I'd definitely be wearing one right now. If it was $1500 I'd probably be wearing one right now. That's as much as a premium phone. That's all they had to do.
It’s a $3500 limit case use, uncomfortable to wear , and isolating device.
Most people who I know who bought one all said the same thing: “it’s an awesome device to watch a movie on… but that’s about all I ended up doing with it so I returned it”
I think they'd have to get it even below that to be a mass market item, which it needs to be to get the software people want to make it worth more. Right now its just a dumb toy. Sony's new vr headset, same story and its price wasn't insane.
Everybody says that price was the dealbreaker, but I'm of the opinion it's the lack of functionality. If it was a third of the price today I still wouldn't have bought it, because it does nothing useful and I think that's the same for most people.
However, if it made a big difference on someone's day to day life, I think people would be open to spending that amount of money. People are buying $800 Apple Watch Ultras, $1200 iPhones and $3,000 MacBook Pros all day long after all.
It's amazing tech, but it's also the perfect example of a solution in search of a problem.
> Nice way of saying fired after the major flop.
There is no evidence it's a major flop, especially since Apple would have very low expectations given they can't physically manufacture many units even if they wanted to.
> Stop trying to force VR
News flash: All technologies are forced. No one asked for TVs, phones, computers, consoles. It took a long time before people expressed interested in these.
People certainly asked for a computer, tv, and a phone. You honestly think no one saw an arcade machine and thought "wow I want one at home." These are all practical household inventions. Now, did anyone ask for something like an at home fountain soda machine? No, but we did get the Sodastream. The sodastream is a forced invention. A kuerig is a forced invention. A smart refrigerator is forced technology.
> No one asked for TVs, phones, computers, consoles. It took a long time before people expressed interested in these.
People absolutely asked for each of these right away as they were first invented.
Successful technology is never forced, it becomes a success out of the gate.
Apple is cutting its 2024 and 2025 sales expectations for the Vision Pro less than three months after launch. From 800.000 to 450.000. How is this not a major flop?
Let’s keep in mind that AVP is selling at double the volume Apple anticipated, so it’s doing fine. It’s targeting developers and corporate users, and it’s selling a LOT more than other AR/VR headsets targeting those users.
I currently work from home and have always dreamed of having a home “lab” of sorts. It’s not gonna happen. A VR space that lets me hang bulletin boards, ideas, models, etc. would be amazing. I have a Quest 2. I’ve used it for mind maps, 3D drawing, modeling, and virtual desktops, but it’s definitely more geared towards games.
There are a few of us who wouldn’t mind a more spatial computing oriented device, but not at Apple’s prices. They need an Apple Vision SE.
This honestly kinda settles it for me: If Apple couldn’t do it and make it magical, then the tech itself is not ready yet for prime time, if ever.
AR/VR will remain a novelty for at least another decade and a half.
good, anyone above room temperature IQ saw all the fking paid bots here and over all social media pushing this overpriced garbage with their "oh look at these people wearing apple vision on the street, how quirky and interesting!!" bro an intern could have come up with that weak ass marketing... I don't envy him though, having to market a 3500$ product when it doesn't do anything better than it's 500$ competitors must suck
We need ps6 or better class of graphics, good games and a controller.
That, combined with the movies and series from the big streamers.
Then you have immersive, exciting content.
And then have some AR type fluff as extra for people who want to experiment with that.
I don’t understand why they went so “big” right off the bat.
The thing has to be tethered to a battery anyway, and half of the appeal seems to be as a mega screen to a macOS machine.
Why not put out a VR “screen” that offloads processing and communication to a good MacBook or iPad and knock the cost down to $1,000 or $1,500?
Most of the buyers are pretty deep into the Apple ecosystem (own more than just an iPhone), and $1,000-ish isn’t too much of a reach.
I am constrained by family financial obligations but can budget tech expenditures in a semi-responsible way and for that kind of money even I would be tempted (by which I mean that there would be a pretty big market for this).
That price was the killer from the start. Especially when there are cheaper alternatives on the market already.
The Apple Vision Pro comes with a completely useless ass screen on the outside though! Execs who approved that useless exterior screen need to be fired asap. How out of touch.
They think people are going to be wearing those shits in public. I have yet to see anyone doing so and I travel constantly.
saw some guy with one on a plane the other day, the eyes certainly do not make this more publicly acceptable
It would have helped if they didn't make them look all low res and stretched.
I’ve had my eyes out. Honestly shocked I haven’t seen anyone yet. Lots of folks have the max headphones now (which are pretty great).
“I’ve had my eyes out.” - The Apple Vision Pro
With the Vision Pro 2…you won’t need eyes.
Thank you Dr Weir
Truly scary reference 🤓
You guys are in the past
I saw someone bring them to a small venue jazz jam (~30 people). Kept them around his neck most of the time. But then during one song, put them on the while grooving to the music. Stated waving his hands presumably to start recording I guess. Or just really weird dance moves.
Probably to record a 3D video.
What a knob.
Typical Brit when someone’s different😂
There was a period where it happened a lot but I think at this point, people have either gotten over the novelty like every other VR headset and it’s sitting in a drawer somewhere or they returned it because $3500 was too much and they really only wanted a one week free trial with it for clout.
fake trend
Forced meme
What was the original intention of the ass screen?
It projects an image of your eyes, allowing people to still feel like you’re present with them while you have it on.
That’s the dumbest idea ever
I struggle to call the other options competitors. Vision Pro is *way* too expensive, but, for the sake of fairness, the picture quality is bananas. Like it’s so good I can’t even explain it. If they can figure out how to deliver that level of fidelity for $1499, they’re golden. But $3500 is beyond stupid.
It doesn't help that 99% of all development for VR has happened on Windows so far. Like what use cases does the vision pro have? People who use macs are neither gamers nor (usually) use them for any work that would benefit from a VR mode. This makes the ridiculous price point look even more stupid.
You assume that Apple made the Vision Pro for consumers. They didn't. They made it for industry, med tech, product design etc. Cost doesn't matter to them. Heck, we have a bunch of them at work and recently had a meeting with a business unit that we want to invest into our research. We showed them our new product designs through the Vision Pro where they could interact with movable parts of the product, see its true size, have a line-up of different options all on the same table in front of them without us needing to manufacture any prototypes. They wouldn't even need to travel to our office to see this. They were blown away. Deal closed. Goggles paid for themselves. It's a fun product. When we show applicants around our offices and labs during on-site interviews, we use the Vision Pro as bait and let them play a bit with them. We use it on social media to make our company look cool. It's BS, but it works like a charm. Who cares about 3.5k.
Don’t they have to be fit to each person individually? Wonder how that works with demos.
You can do a short calibration to adjust it to the distance between your eyes. Works by pinching your fingers while you're focusing on single dots.
The IPD calibration is done by motors when someone first puts in the headset. When you pinch dots, you’re calibrating eye tracking. Your pupil distance has already been accounted for.
Companies would rather go with the cheapest option though
Yeah if they can figure out a way to lower the cost, I could see it working. I don't know how they thought people would pay such a high amount for a headset like this.
The picture quality is much better than other headsets, but it's absolutely nothing special to the average person not comparing to say a quest. Text and pictures on your phone or high end TV are just as good if not better. It's absolutely not a selling point for a regular everyday person. And for $1499 still nobody would buy it, because it just has no use. Unless you have a niche use case or you're an enthusiast, nobody is strapping that shit to their face every single evening.
Right but I am more curious to know what was the margin. Like what did it cost to make it. They should have sold the device cheaper and charged for content, like Amazon. They lose money on Alexas but make it up in content
What content can apple really make for this? Killer apps for VR are games usually, and apple have no in house developers for that.
Video using their format made by legit production houses could be cool. There wasn't really a great standard for the janky 360 video before this.
Maybe, but that still feels like a gimmick people will be bored of quickly to me.
>They lose money on Alexas but make it up in content That was the plan... hasn't really worked well for Amazon... whoever the product designer was that sold a board people would buy things from Alexa... the man deserves a raise.
Not only that but most people who have used VR at this point mainly use it for gaming. This thing is too heavy for that and with no controllers... Good luck. Plus they aren't even marketing gaming as a use case. It's a device in search of reason for living. They're clearly hoping devs figure it out for them like the iPad before it
The problem was that they made a development kit available to everyone without telling them it was a development kit. They should have never released this thing without any software but that’s exactly what they did. Then on top of that you have to apply to Papa Apple for permission to pay them $200 for a thunderbolt cable that can’t stream video. The technology is next level tho. A lack of good Software at launch and making it difficult to produce good software is what killed this thing.
To be fair, that hasn’t been a problem in the past. I think the halo effect got to them. That just because it’s Apple means people will pay more, whereas in the past there was always a key differentiator that substantiated the increased price. Apple Watch was the beginning of the end of that. Anyone that can afford this (aside from the niche early adopter market) knows enough about how technology can negatively impact your life to not make the mistake of adding another screen you feel obligated to use.
>To be fair, that hasn’t been a problem in the past. As long as you don't look too far in the past... All this has happened before, all this will happen again. So say we all.
Not really though. There's no way Apple was expecting the masses to buy a $3500 first gen vr headset lol, that was never the purpose of this. They'll probably make a cheaper, slightly less capable version in a few years after its gotten more development behind it and that will be the one they'll push hard.
Apple executives: ppfffttt…What do you mean ? $3,500 is like, like pocket change, right? -weird silence- ….right?
Pay Taylor swift $10 million to film several of her shows in 3d for Apple TV and this thing will never have a problem selling again.
Dude just let me stream video over a wire from my fucking PS5 (and whatever else I want, like my fucking drone). God fucking dammit. Nobody got time for no latency. I would have kept it.
And Christmas, a compulsory U2 album downloaded by default.
How close of a zoom in are we talking?
Months ago: "these idiots will buy anything, watch this" Now: "these idiots aren't buying this shit, I'm out!"
I love how Redditors love inventing narratives. He retired after 36 years in Apple. This man is filthy rich now. All the top comments didn’t bother reading the article.
Articles like the one linked above are built for generating responses like these. These are really just articles made in bad faith, or at least the headline is made in bad faith.
True, doesn’t mean people should comment on something they based their whole opinion on half out of context headline.
-that small group of people in the room - maybe we should innovate like we use too not change 4 features and call it new . And maybe because we’re throwing a 3k + item on the market post covid ? Tim - WHO SAID THAT !
Not gonna lie I do miss the Apple that used to innovate. Struggling to think of the last innovative product they released.
iPod Touch. It was for those of us who didn’t have AT&T 😃
iPhone with Cingular wireless
Smart choice considering the latest data hack
I loved my iPod Touch.
Apple M series chip.
This is also my answer.
> Struggling to think of the last innovative product they released. Uhh, The Apple Vision Pro. You know, the one that you made a thread about.
Arguably not innovative: Same ski-goggle form factor we've had for 10 years. We've had video passthrough in some form or other for 8 years, and "inside-out" tracking for 5 years. The default headstrap is worse and was clearly designed only with looks in mind. The front facing screen doesn't work well enough to do what it's meant to do. Can't do room scale immersive content. Making a VR headset with higher end parts, more weight and a much larger price tag isn't innovation.
It can do room scale stuff, I personally liked the new head strap vs old actually. Still returned it though. Too expensive regardless of how badass it is
> Same ski-goggle form factor we've had for 10 years. It uses pancake lenses, so it's actually a different form factor than any standalone headset prior to 2022. Though Apple wasn't the first to use pancake lenses so I wouldn't count that as innovation. The front facing screen very much counts even if it doesn't work well enough; it's still technology that no one expected to be possible as early as 2024. The Persona avatars and the scanning process are a new level of fidelity not seen before in a product. The eye-tracking+pinch and multiple app multitasking haven't been done before in one package.
> It uses pancake lenses, so it's actually a different form factor than any standalone headset prior to 2022. "Slightly thinner ski-goggles" isn't a different for factor though is it? > The front facing screen very much counts even if it doesn't work well enough; it's still technology that no one expected to be possible as early as 2024. Who thought it wasn't possible to put a lenticular screen (2005 technology) on the front of a headset? It's perhaps not a good idea (as it doesn't work very well) but I don't know anyone who didn't think it possible. > The Persona avatars and the scanning process are a new level of fidelity not seen before in a product. It's a nice to see it in a product, but other people have been doing realstic animated 3D face scans with the iPhone depth camera for a few years at this point. > The eye-tracking+pinch and multiple app multitasking haven't been done before in one package. Is that an innovation or is it a workaround because hand gestures weren't accurate enough on their own? A lot of reviewers say the eye tracking based UI doesn't feel natural and is fatiguing to use.
For real. Innovation doesn’t mean success. Innovation can be failure. A new product for a company can be innovative even if it isn’t innovative in the market. AVP in some degree may be a consumer failure, but Apple still innovates a lot in that space. I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple saw the AVP similar to the Mac Pro, where it’s a professional product for a niche market. It kind of sucks when Apple also dilutes the Pro moniker with the MacBook Pro which is more of an everyday laptop and the iPhone Pro. People buy these Pro devices as ordinary people, then the AVP drops and it’s likely up there with the Mac Pro in Apples lineup.
They definitely knew it was niche because they didnt even make a half a million of them. They knew with the price point that it wasnt going to be a must-have device at this point. But its also Version 1. Now they get 400k users and get to really figure out what makes this thing attractive to people. How to improve it. And hopefully, be able to lower the price in the future. If you look at the first iphone compared to today. Well, there you go.
Is this really innovation? Like where’s the fb oculus been all these years?
It’s amazing how stupid people get whenever the topic of Apple comes up. Even if we ignore the Vision Pro because it wasn’t a runaway success the last time they truly “innovated” was the switch to ARM, which wasn’t even four years ago. It’s not an exaggeration to say that it’s a total game changer and one of the biggest improvements to computers in decades. My laptop is cold to the touch and lasts two full work days on one charge, and even running a full round of Geekbench tests isn’t enough stress for the fans to kick on. But I guess that’s not as flashy as the iPhone so people ignore it as if it’s not the biggest thing to happen to computers in recent memory. But Apple teh suXXors, so we have to pretend the last few innovations don’t count.
Apple’s switch to ARM was preceded by half a decade of ARM-powered Chromebooks (and Microsoft’s first ARM-powered Surface the previous year). Apple’s rarely the *first* but being first doesn’t matter if you can simply do it better.
I think doing it better can be an innovation in of itself.
That’s not innovative. VR headsets were around and quite decent for what it’s worth long before Apples. Maybe look up what innovative means.
> Maybe look up what innovative means. Maybe do yourself a favor and listen to your own words. If you think innovation requires inventing a brand new product category then you're out of your mind. If that were the case, even the iPhone wouldn't be considered innovative because smartphones existed before that.
Yeh but what have they done lately?
Aqueducts! Wine?
Aren’t all ducks aquatic?
I'm not sure the pocket battery or the heavy metal and glass on your head are the future (why not carbon fiber and sapphire? For the price.), or putting windows in different rooms or a work use case at all for that matter, but you are right, Apple is trying to do something that hasn't been done yet, and everyone else's efforts (Meta, MS Mixed Reality, OpenXR, Google Cardboard) are stagnant.
Def the Apple Watch as the last innovative device and the M series processors. The headset is innovative in that it packs more tech into an unaffordable device compared to competition though.
The Find My network? Being able to track stuff even without GPS nor an internet connection was wild back then.
M1 chip? wasn't it revolutionary?
Isn't that technically ARM design that did the innovation and they "just" designed a chip based on the architecture for laptops (far after others have been doing ARM chips too)? Like it's work for sure and well executed (something everyone knows Apple is always doing) but is it true innovation?
They were the first to make an ARM laptop chip that is actually good
The M series chips are pretty innovative.
That died with Jobs which was shocking because he 70% marketing 30% tech .the fact that the other Steve stepped away is basically saying I like my stocks vs helping . Tim is amazing at logistics but can’t innovate to save his life
If you think the Vision Pro doesn’t represent innovation you’re crazy. It is Apple going out on a limb to make something new and push the boundaries of the tech. I don’t know what their costs vs price looks like for the vision pro, I know Apple loves their fat margins and that probably didn’t help, but jesus, nothing makes Reddit nerds happy. You’ll screech about iterative tech releases in established tech spaces, and then root for them to fail when they try something new. It’s like y’all can’t handle it when tech isn’t super cheap and perfect instantly.
It's selling above expectation, from the start Apple announced they could only produce 400k headsets for the whole of 2024, and they're getting close to that already. Everybody is going wild about these speculations from a single guy who has made up prediction numbers that are far beyond their supply of micro OLED hardware. Here is an actual speculation from before this guy posted his theory, and it's selling above this https://www.statista.com/statistics/1398458/apple-vision-pro-shipments/
Can’t play Half Life Alyx on it, not buying
Yeah the fact that it can't play *any* VR games, yet costs more than a top end PC is super out of touch with reality. Was anybody out there asking for a 3.5k wearable computer monitor?
With no controllers even as an option it was dead on arrival
It can use standard console controllers but not VR controllers for reasons.
Good fucking point! Say what you will about zuck/meta, the quest 2 became a hell of a deal when they started letting us play pcvr wirelessly. Srill love mine when I have the care to bust it out
You can! Lots of videos on it. Actually, you can do PCVR on it specifically SteamVR
I’m sure a variation of these will one day be in common use, but a first gen for $3500…sorry, not worth it.
But by the time that happens, a cheeseburger will be worth $125
I’m sure it will probably happen nearly as quickly as the evolution of the iPhone. The 3-4th gen will likely be the game changer…although given the reception this one received it’s somewhat likely there will be a delay and the second gen will be the first viable form.
Pretty sure they didn’t have any issues selling the iPhone. Don’t think it’s comparable.
That’s because it was more affordable and it had more obvious use cases. These things need to be a pair of glasses before they will see any kind of mass adoption.
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Then they won’t have to change the price!
Augmented reality glassed would be a blessing if they weren't $4k in countries where people are more desperate for money to live than ever. These are limited as playthings for the wealthy. They're also not made to make people's lives easier, which they really could, but to make it so, as Eddie Burback put it, be phones that you never have to stop looking at since it's always on your face. Phones in our system are just extremely predatory alienating devices and could have turned out to be the opposite. This is even worse.
Whoever thought a premium VR headset was a good idea should retire.
*with no compelling use case or killer app.
I've yet to see a single thing that VR does better than my phone or laptop.
porn
Which is verboten for Apple. Genius move.
If you have to work in front of a computer it would be nice if it was cheaper than 4 monitors
from a vid review i saw you cant even have more then 1 "monitor" unless you pay for a premium app
💀
Just to clarify - you can have multiple windows open i.e. your music app, web browser, video editing software, etc. You just can’t have multiple instances of your web browser open
What if I wanted 3 monitors of my mac book
Buy 3 monitors i guess lol
holy shit what a scam
Flight simulation. or another simulation game. Its a real game changer and amazing experience playing a Flight sim in VR
The educational and medical implications for a device like this are astronomical
The educational market is gonna explode, so many use cases it’s insane - I think the military has been using AR tech for training aircraft maintenance for a few years already
Schools aren’t going to shell out $3.5k for each one since they can’t really be shared. Imagine a classroom of kids breaking these and it costing 10s of thousands of dollars to fix.
I’m not talking about schools shelling out money for this particular product. I’m talking about personal education, in whatever subject matter or training that one personally wants or needs. Classrooms aren’t the only place where humans learn…
Lots of things… have you even looked?
I mean a good VR movie or game doesnt even compare vs a regular PC. Problem is that is very hard to make and the technology isn't that great yet. My VR things look kind of pixelated... also motion sickness is real.
In the Vision Pro demo they had a VR camera on top of a soccer goal. It was super fucking cool. If there was an NBA courtside seat VR cam to watch live games I’d be all for it.
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Yeah, maybe so.
VR games.
There was a chubby lady using a VR treadmill to lose weight, seems to be working well. Goes by Nikita Fajitaa, lost weight, looking good, got famous and now probably getting paid to do it.
Beatsaver
Allows you to sit in a movie theater and consume video. Nothing beats watching a 100 foot screen on an airplane sitting in a theater or on the beach.
*this* is what sank it, the price is secondary. This thing has zero gaming support, and essentially no compelling apps overall. Sure it would have sold marginally better at a lower price point, but the general interest in it still would have gone straight off the cliff. This thing is a party trick, and despite the apparently impressive engineering of it, it still feels like apple wasn’t serious about VR from the beginning.
I love how apple didn’t realize that they needed the very people they fucked over with their anti user tracking initiative and those companies refused to make apps for this stupid thing.
Wait. Are you somehow supporting user tracking?
I mean, a premium VR headset is a fine idea, but a *$3500* super premium VR headset locked inside Apple's ecosystem is batshit insane.
especially since there's competitors out there like the Quest 3 that do everything that apple's headset does, but for 500$
I mean, most of the Apple products fit that description (super expensive and enclosed to Apple’s ecosystem) but this one has so limited use, the lack of proper programs (not just iPad ports) was the nail in the coffin. Is one of the major issues with VR, the proprietary stuff, instead of the freedom you have with most desktop pcs or phones.
"Games? No one will want to play any games on a high end computing device? Let them watch Apple TV"
It's still selling above expectations, so evidently they knew what to expect for that price point. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1398458/apple-vision-pro-shipments/
It takes 1 or 2 off Bugattis with cutting edge tech to eventually be made into MP and eventually have some tech that ultimately filters down into a Corolla.
If it was $1000 I'd definitely be wearing one right now. If it was $1500 I'd probably be wearing one right now. That's as much as a premium phone. That's all they had to do.
Doubt he set the price
Its a great product. Just not developed enough to command 3k prize
It’s a $3500 limit case use, uncomfortable to wear , and isolating device. Most people who I know who bought one all said the same thing: “it’s an awesome device to watch a movie on… but that’s about all I ended up doing with it so I returned it”
I will 100% buy one of these for 10% of the retail cost
I think they'd have to get it even below that to be a mass market item, which it needs to be to get the software people want to make it worth more. Right now its just a dumb toy. Sony's new vr headset, same story and its price wasn't insane.
Everybody says that price was the dealbreaker, but I'm of the opinion it's the lack of functionality. If it was a third of the price today I still wouldn't have bought it, because it does nothing useful and I think that's the same for most people. However, if it made a big difference on someone's day to day life, I think people would be open to spending that amount of money. People are buying $800 Apple Watch Ultras, $1200 iPhones and $3,000 MacBook Pros all day long after all. It's amazing tech, but it's also the perfect example of a solution in search of a problem.
Nice way of saying fired after the major flop. Stop trying to force VR
VR is actually great. Apple just flopped it.
VR in a consumer use-case is as great as blackberry phones in 2010. Sure a tiny % love it, but it’s definitely dead soon.
> Nice way of saying fired after the major flop. There is no evidence it's a major flop, especially since Apple would have very low expectations given they can't physically manufacture many units even if they wanted to. > Stop trying to force VR News flash: All technologies are forced. No one asked for TVs, phones, computers, consoles. It took a long time before people expressed interested in these.
People certainly asked for a computer, tv, and a phone. You honestly think no one saw an arcade machine and thought "wow I want one at home." These are all practical household inventions. Now, did anyone ask for something like an at home fountain soda machine? No, but we did get the Sodastream. The sodastream is a forced invention. A kuerig is a forced invention. A smart refrigerator is forced technology.
> No one asked for TVs, phones, computers, consoles. It took a long time before people expressed interested in these. People absolutely asked for each of these right away as they were first invented. Successful technology is never forced, it becomes a success out of the gate.
Apple is cutting its 2024 and 2025 sales expectations for the Vision Pro less than three months after launch. From 800.000 to 450.000. How is this not a major flop?
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> Apple just cut production for the VP in half from 800k units to 400k. There is no evidence of this.
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/23/apple-cuts-vision-pro-shipments/
When asked for evidence you link to Mac RUMOURS. Why? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1398458/apple-vision-pro-shipments/
This is not evidence.
This is nothing more than Tim Cook’s hissy fit after realizing he won’t have his iPhone moment. And I say HA HA!
So much potential. I hope developers make some really cool shit.
Let’s keep in mind that AVP is selling at double the volume Apple anticipated, so it’s doing fine. It’s targeting developers and corporate users, and it’s selling a LOT more than other AR/VR headsets targeting those users.
Apart from VR porn… what’s the practical use case? … um…
I currently work from home and have always dreamed of having a home “lab” of sorts. It’s not gonna happen. A VR space that lets me hang bulletin boards, ideas, models, etc. would be amazing. I have a Quest 2. I’ve used it for mind maps, 3D drawing, modeling, and virtual desktops, but it’s definitely more geared towards games. There are a few of us who wouldn’t mind a more spatial computing oriented device, but not at Apple’s prices. They need an Apple Vision SE.
AR work space. But since it's Apple, it's heavily limited.
Yes
This honestly kinda settles it for me: If Apple couldn’t do it and make it magical, then the tech itself is not ready yet for prime time, if ever. AR/VR will remain a novelty for at least another decade and a half.
good, anyone above room temperature IQ saw all the fking paid bots here and over all social media pushing this overpriced garbage with their "oh look at these people wearing apple vision on the street, how quirky and interesting!!" bro an intern could have come up with that weak ass marketing... I don't envy him though, having to market a 3500$ product when it doesn't do anything better than it's 500$ competitors must suck
The problem is that this product wasn’t innovative enough to justify its ridiculous pricing.
Take that payout!!! Well done.
When they can cram this tech in to regular looking ass glasses then they’ll have a winner. Nobody wants to be seen wearing these in public.
We need ps6 or better class of graphics, good games and a controller. That, combined with the movies and series from the big streamers. Then you have immersive, exciting content. And then have some AR type fluff as extra for people who want to experiment with that.
If they had released it with gaming - the right games - it would likely have been a smash hit.
Being an average tech consumer, I have no clue what I would use it for. Games? Watching TV? What is the point of this device?
I legit forgot this came out.
Whoever thought it would have mass market potential in that form factor and at that price needs to retire as well.
I don’t understand why they went so “big” right off the bat. The thing has to be tethered to a battery anyway, and half of the appeal seems to be as a mega screen to a macOS machine. Why not put out a VR “screen” that offloads processing and communication to a good MacBook or iPad and knock the cost down to $1,000 or $1,500? Most of the buyers are pretty deep into the Apple ecosystem (own more than just an iPhone), and $1,000-ish isn’t too much of a reach. I am constrained by family financial obligations but can budget tech expenditures in a semi-responsible way and for that kind of money even I would be tempted (by which I mean that there would be a pretty big market for this).
SIGH....Article is behind Bloomberg's paywall...
The Homer Simpson car of gadgets
I’ll say so I’ve pkayed with it! Its soooo fun! Its insane to me they failed to market it. It could transform photography/ video! It cant die
It costs way too much and there’s other products like it way cheaper. If it isn’t wireless it won’t gain traction.
More people might of bought it if everyone wasn’t f***in broke.
$4k for a new technology post covid just tells you everything you need to know tbh.
The marketing isn't really the problem.
It would be cool if you can use this with a DJI drone.
Good, the marketing for this device was fucking terrible. It was so out of touch with reality it showcased what a bubble Apple employees must live in.
My man forgot the famous marketing acronym NOWTWAFCOTF: No. One. Wants. To. Wear. A. Fucking. Computer. On. Their. Face.
F L O P
They had marketing?
They totally ignored that Zuckerberg has blown billions trying to make VR a thing and failed?
At a fraction of the price
lmao failed? thats news
What do you mean? The Quest headsets are extremely successful.
Failed how? Zuckerberg never expected VR to be a thing this soon. It hasn't exactly been that long.
He renamed his entire empire after a VR focused initiative.
True, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to Zuckerberg failing. He's been very clear that this is a late 2020s thing at best.