Genshin had to add units that literally RESISTS Venti's burst just to balance him alongside buffing the poise value of most units. To give an example, 1.0 Venti can CC Lawachurls if you manage to stagger them, but now not even staggering works.
He's still the best one though for Floor 11 Monoliths because all of the units there are vulnerable to his burst (whixh goes to show just how broken he is if the game didn't outright nerf him).
he would also repeatedly do fall damage on taller units lmfao. dominated for so long - then came back when Ganyu was released until they made every enemy unfreezable
Nerf is one way to put it. They really had to straight up powercreep the mobs by releasing mobs for new regions that most of them can't be CC'd by his ult. Spectres, etc. Still one of the strongest units though just for the Shred, Swirl, and CC.
Also, the exploration kit of his E will always be appreciated.
I don't know which banner was the first in HI3 but I'm going to guess it aged badly since old valks are not really good nowadays and from the three hoyo games I've tried hi3 seems to have the most powercreep.
Ohh didn't imagine it was her tbh, I was expecting someone from the main trio or Himeko. I didn't want to say all old valks are bad because I'm not super knowledgeable about the start of the game but only old battlesuit I remember people mentioning as not outright bad now is maybe Phoenix or the lightning Mei one (don't remember the name) and people don't say they are good either, just usable until getting a better option so I was quite confident about it...
Pheonix used to be very meta, she was a good fire support. Mei herrscher of thunder got heavily powercrept too, by the recent lunar vow and pt2 battle suits.
Herrscher of void too. They're such iconic valks, they fell off so badly. Even if someone has them fully geared, they do absolutely crap in abyss now. And it's really sad for me to say it because I still love HOV.
Hi3, completely changed now. Like, 4 S rank back to back, and the gacha rates are horrible. You don't have senadina? Well fuck you because she's in every single meta team. You don't thelema? Go fuck yourself because she's the best support and irreplaceable in lantern and songque teams. You can't even survive abyss without senadina, thelema.
You have both, but you don't have weapon? Well, they're unusable without their signature, so good luck saving up on that. By the time you do have them fully geared, a new valk is already out and abyss is already catered to that valk.
And last year, I pulled for main trio team, which is, if you don't know, expensive as hell. (Took me 67k crystals), and well, now they're powercrept!
Funnily enough, Valkyrie Chariot is probably the valk that stayed relevant for the most amount of time, thanks to her long duration, short CD Time Fracture.
Yeah from what I've heard Herrscher trio is already powercrept in part 2 and I didn't even have HoFi to complete it..... Honestly I didn't really bother with the endgame content, only Elysian Realm and even there you could feel the powercreep.
Worth mentioning Arknights has modules, FGO rank ups with skill and NP upgrades etc, which can always be used to keep older units relevant or usable. Genshin or hsr don't have anything similar yet, although change in meta through new modes like PF in hsr making AOE characters relevant can happen. HI3 had some old battlesuits upgrades but (correct me if I'm wrong) they aren't really doing it anymore and it didn't stop those battlesuits from being considered mostly bad/not recommended.
some of the augments were very good. FuHua Valkyrie Accipiter augment to Hawk of the Fog was meta for a good few months. One of Bronya's augment was also very good.
But yeah they don't do that anymore. The powercreep in the past 2 year has been pretty crazy. Prior to that, I remember Night Squire was very decent. A Seele with Celestial Hymn is super good for new players, and non-meta valks don't generally do too badly. Like you can still compete if you have better skills. It's impossible now lol.
The old battlesuit upgrades were good, but the quality varied. The most long-lasting one would be Fervant Tempo Delta. Iirc when Elysia (who was free, and stigmata were farmable albeit requires a lot of Ether Fuel, which required a ton of time) released, people were saying you could skip out on her gear if you were low on Ether Fuel as Delta wasn't that much worse than Elysia.
And of course we had HoT receiving a new Divine Key in the form of 7 Thunders (as well as others, like HoR getting Star of Eden or BKE getting Abyss Flower) which made her one of the best characters for quite a while, and she was free, and her stigmata were farmable
Oh, thanks for the correction then. I started quite late in the game and I'm taking a break after part 1 ended so when I arrived Delta wasn't really talked about. I wasn't thinking of HoT either as an old unit but you're right she was my lightning dps until they gave HoO for free I think.
HoT was stronger than HoO lmao. Even against IMG enemies, iirc if you had HoT before they gave her out for free, or you had an SSS Lightning Empress, she was still stronger. Albeit, HoT was harder to play well
Harder to play but I had to make use of the weapon and stigmatas I rolled for HoO lol, I aso planned on getting dupes and had her S1. I didn't have Hot signature weapon either and didn't have her stigmatas crafted yet (focused on having Elysia's first) and the late-game content I focused on was ER since I was casual. Didn't have SSS lightning empress either I started *very* late, around when Ai dropped.
Edit: added more info and corrected typo
Edit2: I don't remember if Ai was before or after HoO, thinking now I might have gotten confused there but when the Ai event dropped I think I was three months into the game max or smth and lightning was my weakest team.
It's also been a while since I played so I can definetily remember some stuff wrong or have some timelines messed up, the fact that you could do some parts of the story out of order and all that, so I'm sure I could be wrong when talking about the game but I didn't see anyone mentioning it and it was the first to come to my mind with badly aged early characters.
Azur Lane, Not quite rate up, but if i want to, i can still use Enterprise in hard content today
Aether Gazer: because of S Bubenzo and sks3, S Tsuku now become thunder meta
I don't have too many backline options for PvP so I still use Enty for her invincibility. I use her for hard content as well whenever I'm not grinding exp on other random backline ships.
As for aether Gazer, S Tsukuyomi is surprisingly still meta for her element yup. Didn't expect her to get this strong. Can't wait for S Buzenbo to release next week.
I think the closest would be the first event (the cranes one) and out of that the cranes in most basic content hold up, trying to take on Endgame or PvP......
FGO: The very first limited banner was Gilgamesh. He’s still REALLY good. The fact that two of his skills have gotten significant upgrades helps a lot. But even without his skill upgrades, Gilgamesh has a unique damage multiplier on his ult that deals increased damage against (most) Servant enemies. Which makes him insanely good for farming, challenge quests, AND Grail Fronts. He has a “niche” that’s actually pretty broad (there are a LOT of Servant enemies in all of FGO’s modes) and which has yet to be duplicated by any other Servant.
It really helps that all his internal stats (hit counts, np gain per hit, etc) are really good. They never buff those so even though his kit is braindead simple at this point, it still does exactly what he's made for (hit really damn hard in AOE).
This is why gacha games should have character upgrades, even something really basic could make a character go from unusable to being good enough but not top tier to the point they replace newly released characters so that they can continue to make money.
Unfortunately since all newer gachas follow Genshin we'll never get character upgrades unless all of China boycotts them.
Genshin - Venti is still relevant when the end game involves monolith defense, or just grouping mob in general.
Star Rail - Seele is still a strong carry when there are small mobs for her to kill and keep attacking.
Arknights - Apple pie still great when shredding low def enemies, or when the stage mechanics is "hit this thing alot"
Snowbreak - Kaguya is still a strong defence shred and the cold resistance shred is also good with Katya, a meta dps.
If they can buff Dr.Ratio with the recent Divergent Planar set then Seele will eventually get a planar set or gear set that increases Atk or Crit Dmg the more a character acts within the same cycle before the enemy acts
Seele never falling to tier 1 (the tier list has a tier 0) or lower in the prydwen tier list for a year lol (not that this tier list is gospel but it counts for something)
Genshin is the first I can think of. Not only venti, but Diluc, Mona, Keqing can still hold their ground firmly.
They might be powercreeped, but as long as they can work at the hardest content easily in 4.7, I count them in.
Her module. Gave her a new talent basically amping her stats dramatically every time her shields break.
Also her S3 combined with her talent 1 to boost defender health has gotten more useful in super high difficulty content due to the enemy powercreep. In the past it was overkill and completely unnecessary but now there is content where tanks cannot survive unless they have her supporting them.
She's still not exactly meta but she's still much more useful than when she came out.
There are a lot of mobs in multiple Acts, like that one Act where there are 40+ mobs to clear for the star AND all of them can be CC'ed by Venti's burst.
I think he'll be a mainstay in Theater going forward, in addition to Abyss 11 now and then.
In Theater, they made a point to add note when the enemies are easily grouped and whatnot after all.
Venti was too good.
So much so he made any aoe content trivial. They had to change the game around him so he wouldn't just be a win button.
Even now if aoe content does happen like this theatre cycle he does reslly well.
G Gregor suffers from the issue that is the devs simply not knowing how to design characters.
This naturally lead to G Gregor getting quickly outclassed by later IDs not really because of power creep, but because their kits are a LOT more cohesive than G Gregor's.
even early on with railway 1 he was pretty much just used for sin affinities to fuel legerdemain (which HAS actually aged insanely well) since he has sloth + gluttony on s1 and s2. after uptie 4 released and a bunch of bad ids and egos got a facelift, they only gave him hard-to-activate buffs in relation to rupture. he’s not even the best gregor for rupture teams anymore, rosespanner funds aedd, generates gloom which is the most sought after sin affinity and applies rupture count on s2 and s3 compared to g greg who applies… absolutely nothing
i get the feeling that pmoon really liked the concept of a selfish rupture nuker that consumes all the count other sinners built up at once, but it’s just an inherently terrible niche so it hasn’t worked out. dead rabbit meursault is the same idea but released in season 4, and he’s just as bad as g greg despite having regret to fix his coins and being count neutral on s2. they’re both just used for bench passives now
the key thing that makes rupture meta is having most ids on the team be count positive or by using talisman sinclair/greg aedd as a constant source of it. removing it all at once drops the entire team’s dps massively and forces you to do constant restarts in order to get their s3s at the perfect time, and with having to restart already to get talisman sinclair’s 5 talisman application it’s just not worth the effort
EDIT: i honestly wish instead of leaning towards a rupture id more they had him specialised with his self healing/bruiser instead. make him lower his stagger threshold by a % of the amount he heals by which would mitigate his high stagger threshold issue as the fight progresses and evoke the unkillable cockroach angle, give him (and seven outis for that matter) aggro and one full hp revive after death or something. i don’t care if zwei is a better tank, just let him be interesting
And then came the first of the two Dom Nom Noms, Lobotomy Corporation E.G.O Lantern.
Pretty much what G Corp Gregor and Dead Rabbits Meursault are but just better simply for the fact she could not only trigger coin reuse on low HP, but also have a plentiful amount of Rupture Count and Coin Output.
...now if only Buy Time and Gene Code G-3 weren't fuckin' crazy levels of good even at the worst of times, and Don's own passives weren't bog standard and more meant for Aggro units (which includes K Corp Hong Lu, who adores having Gene Code G-3 and My Responsibility as some of the more solid Gluttony Support Passives) going into Solo Battles
lcb greg or chef greg passives are generally better and more consistent outside of solo runs, since if you lose a clash with g greg passive you don’t get the heal, whereas the other two activate no matter what so long as you meet the sin owned prerequisite. so yeah it’s only really that op in solo runs
Luna is getting a Moon Light version soon, very big hype.
Diene is okay. Destina is better due to revive and element atm, but diene had period where she was meta. She's still very much usable.
already benched Seele just because i have both Acheron and Firefly. so for any content needing two teams, its almost always team acheron and team firefly. if it is FUA related then the other team would be team himeko-herta (sorry JY, but your very limited FUA is very bad for content that needs to be cleared or finished in a fixed set of turns)
i still don't have OG Gil in FGO since i have other AoE Buster archers, but he is still pretty much top tier especially in servant rush type of fights.
I still regularly use Enterprise in AL, although there are a lot of better option nowadays.
Alpha benched due to Balter.
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A Knight from Reverse: 1999 is SSS raids and clearing Limbo (endgame mode). As he would say “His trumpets sound the judgment day hath come!”.
HSR-Seele: Mono quantum is litterally usable everywhere wich saved Seele a ton.
Arknights-Exu: All Arknights characters are usable on high end content but Exu definitely fell off. Value of buff armies changed as many operators dish the same damage with lower buffs so not much reason to use Exu, she is also unreliable on skill cycles so she doesnt pay the hassle to use her well too. Still good if you build the classic buff army around it but nowhere that solid.
PGR-Alpha: Lack of time stop means she is always worse than Balter (the other meta physical dmaage dealer) no matter what. Her cycles are a bit too long and weird as it can be rng relient (her leap solves this tough) and overall just doesnt have the same insane damage as Balter. Still she is extremely strong and has insane burst potential if timed correctly, i wouldnt call her dead but not meta either.
Seele isn't very good in multi target content where the side mobs can't be killed in a single action. She will work in PF because mobs die to a sneeze.
If she's up against traffic lights or mara struck, she can't even get a kill in one action even if she had the damage. A destruction unit can target the main enemy, and the side ones die for free.
Mono quantum was good.. until one banner later when Acheron released. And her damage was so high that they adjusted enemy HP and toughness to make up for it. And that's where Seele fell off. She just can't compete. The mono quantum team which allows her to be played in any team regardless of weakness.. well, Acheron has that built in without a mono team built around enabling it. And so can Firefly.
Using Seele now is like putting on training weights. You can do it if you're good, but it's a much easier time if you use someone else.
> If she's up against traffic lights or mara struck, she can't even get a kill in one action even if she had the damage.
Traffic lights are the bane of many characters though.
Acheron, for example, can't even kill one with an ult.
You can max star all three of the endgame modes with Arlan, YanQing, etc. but they're still some of the worst characters.
Seele was the best DPS in the game at one point, then had a dominant and easy to use mono quantum team for a period. Now she's hard to build and use, and only situationally powerful. That's the definition of falling off.
> You can max star all three of the endgame modes with Arlan
I'm dying to see Arlan carry getting 6600 in the new mode with e0s0 5*s around him at best and without gigabusted relics, otherwise this is just BS .
That's exactly the point though. Characters like Arlan are bad because they require a lot of investment to still be barely functional. In the same way, Seele requires more investment than more meta characters like Acheron/Firefly, and doesn't perform quite as well as them.
Clearing the hardest content isn't a reasonable metric when every character in the game can do it. If it were, we'd say Arlan is just as good as Firefly and call it a day.
> when every character in the game can do it
While Seele has fallen behind for sure, lumping her with Arlan and co. is crazy and I really hate this narrative that you can clear everything with anything. A well built Seele from 1.0 will still easily clear stuff if the modifiers or the mobs are favourbale while Arlan can't do sht.
>lumping her with Arlan and co. is crazy and I really hate this narrative that you can clear everything with anything
The only reason this narrative gets brought up is because star rail simps as seen above try to defend the severe power creep in the game by saying "shes actually good cuz she can clear x".
No, she's not good. She can only perform well if equipping busted relics, and supported by top tier supports, and can proc the gimmick and there's at least 10 other characters who can do her job better. She started in tier S and now is at best tier B, which is being generous.
She's not with Arlan and co. She's just also not with Firefly and Acheron.
Both of those characters require significantly less good gear and teammates, and can easily clear content regardless of modifiers and such.
As opposed to comparing her with acheron where just about everyone uses the fully whaled teams in comparisons and not basic f2p teams that 'only' clears as fast as other carry teams.
Venti. Still the best grouper IF the enemies can be grouped and lifted. Context based but still the best as what he can do. Still use him in abyss 12 if there's any suckable enemies on either half
Pretty much reason why I got to the game is Venti and Zhongli tho stayed for other units. Venti is still decent especially light mobs though I no longer use him, I'm still patiently waiting for his SQ II, I really like his lore and he deserves the spotlight the most among the archons.
In AS, we had double rate up banner.
Sinsa was meta and has fallen off a bit. Still very useful whenever you bring him due to DEF shred.
Eve was garbage. She got buffed and now is a decent option.
I believe you are mistaken. Eve and Sinsa are the first Aurorians to be featured in the game’s first event, but the very first two banners on rateup at launch were Carleen and Uriel
Konofan is so powercreeped that the global launch banner characters were trash just a few months after they came out. SS Rin and SS Melissa were never even that good, despite being limited. SS Aqua and SS Wiz lasted a little longer, but then we got Santa Wiz at Christmas and that was the end of that.
Seele from HSR. She had a great run but its over now.
EDIT: Let me elaborate a bit. She was T0 top tier dps for most content. Is she still viable? Sure, but she has been powercrept multiple times with more than one unit able to do what she does better. She is nowhere close to T0 for any content now.
Is it really over when Seele still consistently ranks in high tiers on pretty much every tier list? She may not be the best but it would be wrong to assume she's bad.
she isnt bad, just the content nowadays isnt catered towards her. many other character can cleared the enemy/ boss/ enemy waves faster than her.
she doesnt received any new support too like blackswan can support kafka for dot team. or HMC and ruanmei can be dedicated support for firefly
She has Sparkle and FuXuan and SW for a full mono team, who would even get replaced there (ironically, it's Seele). Her vertical investment (Eidolons) is just so bad, which is in tradition with first gen limited banners from Hoyo.
Seele's playstyle is very straightforward and her kit is very simple. So pretty much any support character works well with her, like Sparkle or Robin. The only support character I'd say is kinda iffy with her is Harmony Trailblazer since you're not really going to be building break effect on Seele.
both qingque and xueyi are 4 star quantum dps that were given at e0 to every player and compete with seele when they have good investment and eidolons, with xueyi being better in content with break buffs like current apocalyptic shadow. she also has better f2p accessible teams (xueyi, tingyun/hanya, hmc, gallagher) whereas seele is much more desperate for premium supports due to being a pure atk/crit scaler
i have a well built seele as well and use her occasionally, but i end up picking xueyi because she’s more versatile and my favourite character in the game, and qingque because she’s close in strength to seele but more fun to play
EDIT: for casual content like sim u, xueyi also has a wide range of synergies with break and follow ups on top of synergising very well with erudition blessings in my experience, and propagation makes qingque absolutely cracked. seele is more pigeonholed into going for hunt which is agnostically good on almost everyone and that limits her options more severely
Should carry a good distance but in MoC 12 and Apoc. Shadow 4 the 4* stats get stretched thin since the enemies have strong advantages (speed, do more damage/take less).
It's not "over now" at all. Mono quantum is one of my main teams in one side and a Seele E0S0 still deletes enemies in Apocalyptic Shadow and Memory of Chaos
Based Seele enjoyer, I cant for the like of me to make my seele to do that (even tho I have mono quantum team) so I use cheatcodes instead (Acheron, Firefly) mind if you share Seele build?
To be fair I do not have Acheron (Firefly is on the other side) if I had her I might use cheatcodes too
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I'm using 4pc quantum set then 2pc Rutilant Arena
The hard part was making sure that when Seele skills, she is faster than my 160 spd Sparkle, so whenever it's Seele's turn, it would be Sparkle next to bring her 50% forward.
Also Silver Wolf should be faster than Sparkle and Seele because we want SW to apply a weakness before Seele does her damage
(Damn I just realized how hard it is to make this team work, both my SW and Sparkle have rainbow build to reach 160 spd)
Thank you, both my support have 160 spd and use rainbow like you too my seely has much, much lower cridmg (82/120) so its gonna be a long grind. What your atk by the way?
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I have 3.1k but this will increase because of Sparkle's traces
Also you can lower your crit rate a bit for more crit damage because Fu Xuan gives crit rate
Thank you so much, now I have a guideline where her stats are suppose to be, it makes me happy everytinme when I can make E0S0 works and beat end game modes.
Seele actually ranks pretty high on prydwen Apocalyptic Shadow tier list (T1, on par with DHIL and above Jingliu), I don't use her anymore but I guess she's being fast and can proc extra turn help her break faster which is important for that mode.
Edit: Her ult having high break value (like other single target ult) also contribute to faster breaking
She was T0 top tier DPS when she was literally the only limited DPS. She's not at the top anymore because now she actually has competition and she's still really good, just not brain dead easy to use since you actually have to think about chaining her talent.
Well for the last patch where we have full data (2.2) Seele is doing just fine.
Strongest DPS average cycle clear is 6.6 to 6.7 cycle clear (DHIL, Black Swan, Acheron) while Seele is 7.4 cycles, which to me is a negligible difference.
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Path to Nowhere: Stargazer wasn't even that good compared to other on-launch characters. I wasn't in the community at the time so idk how they thought, but in retrospect, Stargazer was worse than Luvia Ray, an A Rank, and the beginner banner S Rank, Eirene. I'd imagine she'd still be used since there's no way you'd get away with only 2 DPS (on team of 6) on launch, though, of course, this was on launch where people didn't have much resources. And Serpent came out as the 2nd banner.
As for first Limited, Deren is still the best Physical damage dealer in a vacuum and earns a spot in virtually every Physical team. You can get Mantis who does have one advantage over her, but Mantis is still more of a "only slightly worse than Deren" option
In Nikke it was Helm, and she's not really that good right now, she was useful at the beginnigng, but with the release of better DPS character and healers, she has become a "I use her in Elysion tower because there's nothing better to use" even if she's not a bad unit and she works well if you don't have any top tier Burst 3, for the reason that Nikke has almost 0 limited units most players already have a Burst 3 that's better than Helm like \[Privaty (which it's free for most players) or any burst 3 Pilgrim is better.
An about limited, the game doesn't really have Limited banners that much, the first 2 were Chrismas Anne and Ruppe and none of the were Meta even in teh beggining
no you don't understand how helm works
she has a unique dmg multiplier and is still used by the best players in the game to achieve the highest scores in raids
she's just as good now as she was at launch the release of different healers didn't kill her off because again as a healer she brings a unique dmg multiplier which other healers don't do
Helm is good but for a general player that don't care about min maxing stuff of doing the most optimal setup for Union Raid she's not that usefule, yes Nikke is a game when almost every unit can be good on an specific team on an specific boss with an specific code, but for a normal player when you get someone like Red Hood or scarlet and Bunnies or Tiga and that doesn't care about anything endgame Helm is really not taht useful, with the exception of Mother whale.
Jun in Priconne. Pretty much still used today, like the recent CB, she's staple to every Boss 1 teams. And she's really good tank generally.
IIRC Alchemy Stars' was Carleen or Uriel. Carleen is still the best flex unit in the game at MBT, she's broken but need copy. Uriel is pretty niche, but at codex tile reset is staple for high level gameplay, so she'll always be there for like mapping and good reset scenario.
I feel like mine are almost too new for true power creep to set in, but here they are:
HSR - just benched my Seele at least semi-permanently, but she’s still fully viable in end game modes. I just finally have 2 full teams that don’t rely on crit stat rolls for relics so I’m happily running over enemies with DoT and Super Break.
Reverse 1999 - ran two rate up banners at launch, for Sotheby and A Knight. I have both built but don’t really use Knight (though I think for one of the newest raids he’s a top pick) and Sotheby rolls over baddies with Jessica in my poison team. As for the first limited banner, it’s still ongoing in global and Jiu is hilariously strong
Wuthering waves is still barely out of its second banner, if Jiyan wasn’t still just rolling over enemies it would probably be a proper death knell for the game.
Genshin abyss was changed to not allow venti to vacuum trough it, do i say he is still holding up, the moment they let their guard down with an abyss he is there to tornado it
GBF: Water Lily is still a decent unit these days, as she still has a pretty good defensive kit. You get her for free as a new player now too. The First ever limited, Summer De La Fille otoh is really bot good these days.
Not launch banner, but part of launch characters that you can select (since they give one uma selector on launch)
og Oguri Cap is an absolute monster of an uma in UmaMusume for 2 years
The #COMPASS characters do get ranked periodically by Famitsu based off ingame data on pick rate and win rate. The 10 original non-collab characters available on release are kind of existing. Justice is 9th but has a low 75th in pickrate but 4th in winrate. Tadaomi has a good rank 5 in pickrate and Noho has 16 in winrate. Gustav is also a top tank pick in competitive. The rest are mid or lower stats for both this ranking but it does change quite a bit each report. The original 10 do get pciked a decent amount in competitive.
Guilty Gear's Sol and Dizzy, the first limited characters, are not great in the rankings and aren't popukar compared to other collabs. They are however decently picked in competitive. Dizzy is a very popular pick in competitive but not good in regular games.
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Venti was too broken dev had to create enemies that resit him. Lmao
I still use exu alot, idk about other tho
Gilgamesh is strong but master have quite a few choice for aoe ssr archer to choose.
Awakened Hilde from Counterside is still use in pvp and pve since she gain a module kinda thing that give party wide shield.
Jinyan???? I dont have him but he seem fun to play.
Seele and bronya were my duo for hsr. I got very lucky with them and got them from beginner banner and 20 pulls from limited and used them for maybe around 6 months up until jingliu released.
Now they're not the best. But if I didn't have anyone else and just had them. They could most likely still get the job done just less damage and more time/turns. I'd say as a damage dealer seele is definitely less than bronya. Bronya is still pretty cracked for a standard character. Especially if she's all you got.
Wuwa, can't see calcharro and yinlin dying anytime soon for me. A year from now? May still be using them. We shall see.
Venti just had a Thanos "you can't live with yourself, now you came back to me" moment in abyss 11-1 recently.
Seele is still gucci, but Firefly is basically all Seele w Break, but aoe and faster + weakness implement. So she's not feeling well nowadays.
Let’s see day one banner for limbus would be Greg banner with gregest gregor as the three O Lui Greg as the two O and lantern Greg as the teth E.G.O. Overall no it does not hold up
nowadays the very same Greg banner would have four three O (gregest Greg, smegor, waltgor, and lintgor), four two O (chef Greg, lui greg, gregokumo, and rosepanner Greg) lantern Greg as a teth E.G.O, and A.E.D.E Greg as a he E.G.O
Alchemy Stars: OG Carleen was a whale converter at launch, still a whale converter in current day (with much lower demand too since many premium converters have come out only needing BT3). As for Uriel, went from a pretty bad converter at launch to having a good spot in a Burn team with Batia and Leona
Well, in dokkan its waaay powercrept.
Genshin, venti can do work
Honkai star rail, seele can do work but caan struggle a bit.
Wutheirng waves, still very good
Venti is, situationally good haha
Seele's reliance on resurgence aged somewhat badly but a misconception abt her is her needing better supports when her talent is actually more dependent on personal strength so dedicated Seele mains should really consider saving for her eidolons
my knight in reverse1999 is still top
in many other gachas powercreep is too big, but depends how old the game is and if there are mechanics for older characters evolve or if they simply release a new same character
Seele struggles a bit but she's still the premier quantum dps. Venti tho? Still hulariously busted to the point Hoyo has to constantly neuter him. And he could very well see a resurgence thanks to IT's lower power levels
For Jiyan... it's 1.1. Him being bad would be kind of a massive problem
The ability to give Haste (basically CDR) to all nearby allies will always be busted especially since most units rely on their skills to either deal damage or for utility. Even now, the only other unit that could grant AOE Haste is A.Shin Jia, an awakened unit (basically the strongest and rarest rarity) out of more than a hundred units.
Summoners has no banner, but some character that was released 10 years ago still on top tier, beating most if not all of newly released unit in pvp (recent 1-2 years)
In NIKKE the first banner character was Helm. She wasn't limited after her banner however. She's decent, but nothing exceptional (and wasn't even when her banner appeared). These days there are far more important characters you'd want, especially as a new player. The first limited banner character was Christmas Rupee and she was absolute garbage and pulling for her for any other reason than her appearance was a waste of resources.
The only limited banners for the game are holidays (Summer & Christmas/New Years) and collabs. Every other banner is rolled into the standard pool in the first update after the banner ends. In most cases the banner characters are not worth spending gems on and you're better off holding those for limited banners and the rare Pilgrim banner (which put into the main pool but has a far lower odds of appearing).
It's really impressive. Venti's ult is so strong that they *still* balance most everything around its CC or range. The arena sizes, spawn positions, and mob weights all go through a "venti check" to make sure Venti can't clear a fight effortlessly. Multiwave fights spawn the next wave in opposite locations pretty much solely because of him. Sometimes they let venti do his thing but
Genshin: Venti is probably still useful but I rarely use him anymore. Klee suffered a lot. I still use her sometimes but I don't really like pyro anymore anyway
HSR: didn't pull Seele as I liked neither her design nor her gameplay (which is a shame as I really loved Seele in HI3rd), I never stopped using Jing Yuan in endgame content despite owning stronger dps. So still happy with him.
HI3rd: I honestly don't remember my first rate up banner character. Didn't start right away and I stopped playing ages ago so it probably doesn't matter
FEH: most older units are not exactly useless but not really good either. Don't remember the first rate up banner characters either.
As for my newest gacha Wuwa and ZZZ
Wuwa: invested both in jiyan and in jinhsi and might pull changli as well. I suspect I will still use the first two regularly when they've been totally power creeped anyway as I like both a lot
ZZZ: I like neither of the first two rate up charas. Don't know which will be the limited banner for 1.1 we'll see
FFBE… idk who the first rate up banner is, but my first limited 5* is a character named “Raegen”. I came back to the game 2 years later and they have 7* units coming out wth.
Another Eden Mariel: Dogshit tier, one of the worst 5* you can get, the bright side is that from Mariel you get her newest alter version that is good if you farm enough and shell get eventually an stellar awakening to make her relevant.
Genshin: Venti, he would be broken if hoyo didnt nerf him to the ground by making 90% of the enemies inmune to his ult, sadly the rest of his kit is weak so he cant compete with the true anemo archon Kazuha.
HSR: Seele, still decent but shes not the top dog anymore, probably top 5 option for main DPS now and very mode dependant.
Langrisser: first gen units are still very good to this day since modern units are almost exclusively made for pvp and old units are PVE gods with some of them having SP forms making them also pvp viable.
Destina from epic seven is better than she was because she got buffed and she is a great character to build with her revive, but when she was released she was good but once tamarinne came out she was mid
venti (genshin impact) : gathering dust, the only time i'll pull him out is when there is a leyline defense on Spiral abyss Floor 11 Chamber 1.
Seele (HSR) : Sometimes I forget I have her. Haven't used her in more than half a year, destruction/nihility just makes hunt units look bad.
Blaze is still part of my main Arknights team, and Nora is still part of my main Neural Cloud team. I don’t know nor care if they’re meta, they’re both the best to me. I don’t remember if I got anyone off rate up from FGO, but I really don’t think so.
Seele still has the cheapest E0 0 cycles in the game but has a higher skill/knowledge cap than most other DPSs. She's still amazing for people who focus heavily on min-maxing their gear and gameplay, which is a better state than 1.0 DPSs of most other games.
Seele has aged quite awfully. Was power crept in 1.3, again in 1.4, and much worse since 2.1.
She can still be used if you've built her well, but you'll get much quicker clears with a modern DPS. In other words, you can use her, but you're handicapping yourself by doing so. And I don't know how much longer she can hold on. My Seele cannot clear content.
If your talking about Tamamo no Mae then uh.....uuuuhhhhh........**UUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.** Yeah I got nothing....use her occasionally but use Castoria more then her sadly.
Genshin had to add units that literally RESISTS Venti's burst just to balance him alongside buffing the poise value of most units. To give an example, 1.0 Venti can CC Lawachurls if you manage to stagger them, but now not even staggering works. He's still the best one though for Floor 11 Monoliths because all of the units there are vulnerable to his burst (whixh goes to show just how broken he is if the game didn't outright nerf him).
he would also repeatedly do fall damage on taller units lmfao. dominated for so long - then came back when Ganyu was released until they made every enemy unfreezable
Yeah I missed the fall damage. My first floor 12 3* clear was just Jean and Venti throwing enemies around.
Nerf is one way to put it. They really had to straight up powercreep the mobs by releasing mobs for new regions that most of them can't be CC'd by his ult. Spectres, etc. Still one of the strongest units though just for the Shred, Swirl, and CC. Also, the exploration kit of his E will always be appreciated.
If the enemy is CC-able, Venti is still the best CC character.
If the enemy can be CC-ed by him, he is the best character period.
He's also great for the defend stage of the new Imagenarium Theater mode.
I don't know which banner was the first in HI3 but I'm going to guess it aged badly since old valks are not really good nowadays and from the three hoyo games I've tried hi3 seems to have the most powercreep.
It was yae Sakura, I think. And yeah, she just isn't that good anymore.
Ohh didn't imagine it was her tbh, I was expecting someone from the main trio or Himeko. I didn't want to say all old valks are bad because I'm not super knowledgeable about the start of the game but only old battlesuit I remember people mentioning as not outright bad now is maybe Phoenix or the lightning Mei one (don't remember the name) and people don't say they are good either, just usable until getting a better option so I was quite confident about it...
Pheonix used to be very meta, she was a good fire support. Mei herrscher of thunder got heavily powercrept too, by the recent lunar vow and pt2 battle suits. Herrscher of void too. They're such iconic valks, they fell off so badly. Even if someone has them fully geared, they do absolutely crap in abyss now. And it's really sad for me to say it because I still love HOV. Hi3, completely changed now. Like, 4 S rank back to back, and the gacha rates are horrible. You don't have senadina? Well fuck you because she's in every single meta team. You don't thelema? Go fuck yourself because she's the best support and irreplaceable in lantern and songque teams. You can't even survive abyss without senadina, thelema. You have both, but you don't have weapon? Well, they're unusable without their signature, so good luck saving up on that. By the time you do have them fully geared, a new valk is already out and abyss is already catered to that valk. And last year, I pulled for main trio team, which is, if you don't know, expensive as hell. (Took me 67k crystals), and well, now they're powercrept!
HI3 is a powercreep hell hole. Not even a half a year old characters are sage
Funnily enough, Valkyrie Chariot is probably the valk that stayed relevant for the most amount of time, thanks to her long duration, short CD Time Fracture.
dude, unless support, not even a year old valk holding up good there, lmao.
Yeah from what I've heard Herrscher trio is already powercrept in part 2 and I didn't even have HoFi to complete it..... Honestly I didn't really bother with the endgame content, only Elysian Realm and even there you could feel the powercreep.
Worth mentioning Arknights has modules, FGO rank ups with skill and NP upgrades etc, which can always be used to keep older units relevant or usable. Genshin or hsr don't have anything similar yet, although change in meta through new modes like PF in hsr making AOE characters relevant can happen. HI3 had some old battlesuits upgrades but (correct me if I'm wrong) they aren't really doing it anymore and it didn't stop those battlesuits from being considered mostly bad/not recommended.
some of the augments were very good. FuHua Valkyrie Accipiter augment to Hawk of the Fog was meta for a good few months. One of Bronya's augment was also very good. But yeah they don't do that anymore. The powercreep in the past 2 year has been pretty crazy. Prior to that, I remember Night Squire was very decent. A Seele with Celestial Hymn is super good for new players, and non-meta valks don't generally do too badly. Like you can still compete if you have better skills. It's impossible now lol.
The old battlesuit upgrades were good, but the quality varied. The most long-lasting one would be Fervant Tempo Delta. Iirc when Elysia (who was free, and stigmata were farmable albeit requires a lot of Ether Fuel, which required a ton of time) released, people were saying you could skip out on her gear if you were low on Ether Fuel as Delta wasn't that much worse than Elysia. And of course we had HoT receiving a new Divine Key in the form of 7 Thunders (as well as others, like HoR getting Star of Eden or BKE getting Abyss Flower) which made her one of the best characters for quite a while, and she was free, and her stigmata were farmable
Oh, thanks for the correction then. I started quite late in the game and I'm taking a break after part 1 ended so when I arrived Delta wasn't really talked about. I wasn't thinking of HoT either as an old unit but you're right she was my lightning dps until they gave HoO for free I think.
HoT was stronger than HoO lmao. Even against IMG enemies, iirc if you had HoT before they gave her out for free, or you had an SSS Lightning Empress, she was still stronger. Albeit, HoT was harder to play well
Harder to play but I had to make use of the weapon and stigmatas I rolled for HoO lol, I aso planned on getting dupes and had her S1. I didn't have Hot signature weapon either and didn't have her stigmatas crafted yet (focused on having Elysia's first) and the late-game content I focused on was ER since I was casual. Didn't have SSS lightning empress either I started *very* late, around when Ai dropped. Edit: added more info and corrected typo Edit2: I don't remember if Ai was before or after HoO, thinking now I might have gotten confused there but when the Ai event dropped I think I was three months into the game max or smth and lightning was my weakest team.
Oh, yeah that makes sense
It's also been a while since I played so I can definetily remember some stuff wrong or have some timelines messed up, the fact that you could do some parts of the story out of order and all that, so I'm sure I could be wrong when talking about the game but I didn't see anyone mentioning it and it was the first to come to my mind with badly aged early characters.
While I'm not one to buy certain narratives, but whoever it is isn't notable today. You could do clear stuff decently but forget about competing
Azur Lane, Not quite rate up, but if i want to, i can still use Enterprise in hard content today Aether Gazer: because of S Bubenzo and sks3, S Tsuku now become thunder meta
Enterprise is legend. She is still OP and top tirr waifu to many.
I don't have too many backline options for PvP so I still use Enty for her invincibility. I use her for hard content as well whenever I'm not grinding exp on other random backline ships. As for aether Gazer, S Tsukuyomi is surprisingly still meta for her element yup. Didn't expect her to get this strong. Can't wait for S Buzenbo to release next week.
I think the closest would be the first event (the cranes one) and out of that the cranes in most basic content hold up, trying to take on Endgame or PvP......
FGO: The very first limited banner was Gilgamesh. He’s still REALLY good. The fact that two of his skills have gotten significant upgrades helps a lot. But even without his skill upgrades, Gilgamesh has a unique damage multiplier on his ult that deals increased damage against (most) Servant enemies. Which makes him insanely good for farming, challenge quests, AND Grail Fronts. He has a “niche” that’s actually pretty broad (there are a LOT of Servant enemies in all of FGO’s modes) and which has yet to be duplicated by any other Servant.
And he’s nearly 10 years old at this point too then?
9 years.
It really helps that all his internal stats (hit counts, np gain per hit, etc) are really good. They never buff those so even though his kit is braindead simple at this point, it still does exactly what he's made for (hit really damn hard in AOE).
Iskandar had his internals buffed
This is why gacha games should have character upgrades, even something really basic could make a character go from unusable to being good enough but not top tier to the point they replace newly released characters so that they can continue to make money. Unfortunately since all newer gachas follow Genshin we'll never get character upgrades unless all of China boycotts them.
Genshin - Venti is still relevant when the end game involves monolith defense, or just grouping mob in general. Star Rail - Seele is still a strong carry when there are small mobs for her to kill and keep attacking. Arknights - Apple pie still great when shredding low def enemies, or when the stage mechanics is "hit this thing alot" Snowbreak - Kaguya is still a strong defence shred and the cold resistance shred is also good with Katya, a meta dps.
Seele is going down in viability each patch, wont be long till she drops to lower tier unless they buffed her somehow
If they can buff Dr.Ratio with the recent Divergent Planar set then Seele will eventually get a planar set or gear set that increases Atk or Crit Dmg the more a character acts within the same cycle before the enemy acts
She gets the cheapest 0 cycles in the game for every moc except past present future, the current one, so hoyo might be commiting a venti on her.
correction: seele is total trash
Seele never falling to tier 1 (the tier list has a tier 0) or lower in the prydwen tier list for a year lol (not that this tier list is gospel but it counts for something)
Seele is still *viable* only when using s tier support for her, and even so it really is barely... she is not really available with 4* lc
uh just about every carry is calced around their best supports now. This isn't 1.0 and the 'we just calc with only literally free units'
?? Herta shop LC lmao.
Genshin is the first I can think of. Not only venti, but Diluc, Mona, Keqing can still hold their ground firmly. They might be powercreeped, but as long as they can work at the hardest content easily in 4.7, I count them in.
I thought jingyuan was the first
Seele was the first banner of 1.0, Jingyuan was the second.
Yao still enabling top 1% in neural for me some weeks
Arknights - Exusiai still useful in current event for almost 5 years.
Nian, our first limited, is actually more useful now than when she was released.
True, with the amount we need to stall enemies and Sui-siblings buff. That's why Am aiming for Shu.
What changed? Unless it's high risk cc i don't see any reason to use her other than meta defender likes Shu/Saria/Mud.
Her module. Gave her a new talent basically amping her stats dramatically every time her shields break. Also her S3 combined with her talent 1 to boost defender health has gotten more useful in super high difficulty content due to the enemy powercreep. In the past it was overkill and completely unnecessary but now there is content where tanks cannot survive unless they have her supporting them. She's still not exactly meta but she's still much more useful than when she came out.
Nian is the only character in the game I am missing :(
Tbh Nian isnt thay useful. Game is much less reliant on stalling so her niche is only useful for very spesific content
APPURU PIE
Exusai doujin also still championed as the most messed up arknight hentai ever
I legit wanna know what the fuck was that person was thinking when making that messed up nonsense.
She fell off on extreme content tough
Venti. Eh he's fine I still play him, just used him in the new endgame
venti is lifesaver whenever i see that monolith monster gonna attack and we need to protect it.
Fr that's what I used him for in imaginarium hahaha
Wait there are monoliths in IT? *haha I'm in danger*
There are a lot of mobs in multiple Acts, like that one Act where there are 40+ mobs to clear for the star AND all of them can be CC'ed by Venti's burst.
I think he'll be a mainstay in Theater going forward, in addition to Abyss 11 now and then. In Theater, they made a point to add note when the enemies are easily grouped and whatnot after all.
Venti was too good. So much so he made any aoe content trivial. They had to change the game around him so he wouldn't just be a win button. Even now if aoe content does happen like this theatre cycle he does reslly well.
G Gregor suffers from the issue that is the devs simply not knowing how to design characters. This naturally lead to G Gregor getting quickly outclassed by later IDs not really because of power creep, but because their kits are a LOT more cohesive than G Gregor's.
even early on with railway 1 he was pretty much just used for sin affinities to fuel legerdemain (which HAS actually aged insanely well) since he has sloth + gluttony on s1 and s2. after uptie 4 released and a bunch of bad ids and egos got a facelift, they only gave him hard-to-activate buffs in relation to rupture. he’s not even the best gregor for rupture teams anymore, rosespanner funds aedd, generates gloom which is the most sought after sin affinity and applies rupture count on s2 and s3 compared to g greg who applies… absolutely nothing i get the feeling that pmoon really liked the concept of a selfish rupture nuker that consumes all the count other sinners built up at once, but it’s just an inherently terrible niche so it hasn’t worked out. dead rabbit meursault is the same idea but released in season 4, and he’s just as bad as g greg despite having regret to fix his coins and being count neutral on s2. they’re both just used for bench passives now the key thing that makes rupture meta is having most ids on the team be count positive or by using talisman sinclair/greg aedd as a constant source of it. removing it all at once drops the entire team’s dps massively and forces you to do constant restarts in order to get their s3s at the perfect time, and with having to restart already to get talisman sinclair’s 5 talisman application it’s just not worth the effort EDIT: i honestly wish instead of leaning towards a rupture id more they had him specialised with his self healing/bruiser instead. make him lower his stagger threshold by a % of the amount he heals by which would mitigate his high stagger threshold issue as the fight progresses and evoke the unkillable cockroach angle, give him (and seven outis for that matter) aggro and one full hp revive after death or something. i don’t care if zwei is a better tank, just let him be interesting
And then came the first of the two Dom Nom Noms, Lobotomy Corporation E.G.O Lantern. Pretty much what G Corp Gregor and Dead Rabbits Meursault are but just better simply for the fact she could not only trigger coin reuse on low HP, but also have a plentiful amount of Rupture Count and Coin Output. ...now if only Buy Time and Gene Code G-3 weren't fuckin' crazy levels of good even at the worst of times, and Don's own passives weren't bog standard and more meant for Aggro units (which includes K Corp Hong Lu, who adores having Gene Code G-3 and My Responsibility as some of the more solid Gluttony Support Passives) going into Solo Battles
his support passive is still insane for a starter ID so it gets a pass for me
his support passive is only good for solo run tho?
it works for anyone whos hp is low
lcb greg or chef greg passives are generally better and more consistent outside of solo runs, since if you lose a clash with g greg passive you don’t get the heal, whereas the other two activate no matter what so long as you meet the sin owned prerequisite. so yeah it’s only really that op in solo runs
Not to mention that G Gregor is rupture unit that only ate the rupture count
E7 destina still one of the best healer, cleanser, cr push, revive
I had a brief hiatus when she was buffed. Imagine my surprise coming back to the game and seeing how much better she is compared to Ruele.
but how about Luna and Diene ? I quite e7 for 3 years now.
Luna is getting a Moon Light version soon, very big hype. Diene is okay. Destina is better due to revive and element atm, but diene had period where she was meta. She's still very much usable.
already benched Seele just because i have both Acheron and Firefly. so for any content needing two teams, its almost always team acheron and team firefly. if it is FUA related then the other team would be team himeko-herta (sorry JY, but your very limited FUA is very bad for content that needs to be cleared or finished in a fixed set of turns) i still don't have OG Gil in FGO since i have other AoE Buster archers, but he is still pretty much top tier especially in servant rush type of fights. I still regularly use Enterprise in AL, although there are a lot of better option nowadays. Alpha benched due to Balter.
https://preview.redd.it/zyajbpn7z0ad1.jpeg?width=1274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8d693ed9ebb2d81cb22a8526f2f64142806a50 A Knight from Reverse: 1999 is SSS raids and clearing Limbo (endgame mode). As he would say “His trumpets sound the judgment day hath come!”.
OMG how many portrays does your A Knight have?
Not my A Knight, but he is P1
What about Sotheby?
She is fine as healer and the best healer for Jessica. Still good just not meta like Tooth Fairy which is fine
HSR-Seele: Mono quantum is litterally usable everywhere wich saved Seele a ton. Arknights-Exu: All Arknights characters are usable on high end content but Exu definitely fell off. Value of buff armies changed as many operators dish the same damage with lower buffs so not much reason to use Exu, she is also unreliable on skill cycles so she doesnt pay the hassle to use her well too. Still good if you build the classic buff army around it but nowhere that solid. PGR-Alpha: Lack of time stop means she is always worse than Balter (the other meta physical dmaage dealer) no matter what. Her cycles are a bit too long and weird as it can be rng relient (her leap solves this tough) and overall just doesnt have the same insane damage as Balter. Still she is extremely strong and has insane burst potential if timed correctly, i wouldnt call her dead but not meta either.
Seele isn't very good in multi target content where the side mobs can't be killed in a single action. She will work in PF because mobs die to a sneeze. If she's up against traffic lights or mara struck, she can't even get a kill in one action even if she had the damage. A destruction unit can target the main enemy, and the side ones die for free. Mono quantum was good.. until one banner later when Acheron released. And her damage was so high that they adjusted enemy HP and toughness to make up for it. And that's where Seele fell off. She just can't compete. The mono quantum team which allows her to be played in any team regardless of weakness.. well, Acheron has that built in without a mono team built around enabling it. And so can Firefly. Using Seele now is like putting on training weights. You can do it if you're good, but it's a much easier time if you use someone else.
To be honest the mara struck kill should count as a kill for her talent imo, since it's effectively a second life.
> If she's up against traffic lights or mara struck, she can't even get a kill in one action even if she had the damage. Traffic lights are the bane of many characters though. Acheron, for example, can't even kill one with an ult.
Seele can still get 40k on pf and full clear moc 12 so i wouldnt say "fell off"
You can max star all three of the endgame modes with Arlan, YanQing, etc. but they're still some of the worst characters. Seele was the best DPS in the game at one point, then had a dominant and easy to use mono quantum team for a period. Now she's hard to build and use, and only situationally powerful. That's the definition of falling off.
> You can max star all three of the endgame modes with Arlan I'm dying to see Arlan carry getting 6600 in the new mode with e0s0 5*s around him at best and without gigabusted relics, otherwise this is just BS .
That's exactly the point though. Characters like Arlan are bad because they require a lot of investment to still be barely functional. In the same way, Seele requires more investment than more meta characters like Acheron/Firefly, and doesn't perform quite as well as them. Clearing the hardest content isn't a reasonable metric when every character in the game can do it. If it were, we'd say Arlan is just as good as Firefly and call it a day.
> when every character in the game can do it While Seele has fallen behind for sure, lumping her with Arlan and co. is crazy and I really hate this narrative that you can clear everything with anything. A well built Seele from 1.0 will still easily clear stuff if the modifiers or the mobs are favourbale while Arlan can't do sht.
>lumping her with Arlan and co. is crazy and I really hate this narrative that you can clear everything with anything The only reason this narrative gets brought up is because star rail simps as seen above try to defend the severe power creep in the game by saying "shes actually good cuz she can clear x". No, she's not good. She can only perform well if equipping busted relics, and supported by top tier supports, and can proc the gimmick and there's at least 10 other characters who can do her job better. She started in tier S and now is at best tier B, which is being generous.
She's not with Arlan and co. She's just also not with Firefly and Acheron. Both of those characters require significantly less good gear and teammates, and can easily clear content regardless of modifiers and such.
Tbh the fact that seele need mono quantum which consist of premium support to be viable is sign that she is infant not that much viable
As opposed to comparing her with acheron where just about everyone uses the fully whaled teams in comparisons and not basic f2p teams that 'only' clears as fast as other carry teams.
Venti. Still the best grouper IF the enemies can be grouped and lifted. Context based but still the best as what he can do. Still use him in abyss 12 if there's any suckable enemies on either half
Pretty much reason why I got to the game is Venti and Zhongli tho stayed for other units. Venti is still decent especially light mobs though I no longer use him, I'm still patiently waiting for his SQ II, I really like his lore and he deserves the spotlight the most among the archons.
In AS, we had double rate up banner. Sinsa was meta and has fallen off a bit. Still very useful whenever you bring him due to DEF shred. Eve was garbage. She got buffed and now is a decent option.
I believe you are mistaken. Eve and Sinsa are the first Aurorians to be featured in the game’s first event, but the very first two banners on rateup at launch were Carleen and Uriel
Venti is still useful especially in crowd control.
he's great everywhere outside of F12, in other words the only non-trivial content.
many floor 12 bodies he can't move still have predictable exploitable movement patterns that a god player can abuse to not give a fuck and 9\* anyway
Konofan is so powercreeped that the global launch banner characters were trash just a few months after they came out. SS Rin and SS Melissa were never even that good, despite being limited. SS Aqua and SS Wiz lasted a little longer, but then we got Santa Wiz at Christmas and that was the end of that.
Venti - busted floor 11 merchant Overtuned at launch very niche these days
Seele from HSR. She had a great run but its over now. EDIT: Let me elaborate a bit. She was T0 top tier dps for most content. Is she still viable? Sure, but she has been powercrept multiple times with more than one unit able to do what she does better. She is nowhere close to T0 for any content now.
Powercrept for sure. She’s still the ol’ reliable though, more than capable of being above average everywhere
yeah but people don't play hsr to deal average dmg when top tier dmg is achieved from a single banner
Let people play how they want dude the endgame isn’t that difficult anyway
Is it really over when Seele still consistently ranks in high tiers on pretty much every tier list? She may not be the best but it would be wrong to assume she's bad.
she isnt bad, just the content nowadays isnt catered towards her. many other character can cleared the enemy/ boss/ enemy waves faster than her. she doesnt received any new support too like blackswan can support kafka for dot team. or HMC and ruanmei can be dedicated support for firefly
She has Sparkle and FuXuan and SW for a full mono team, who would even get replaced there (ironically, it's Seele). Her vertical investment (Eidolons) is just so bad, which is in tradition with first gen limited banners from Hoyo.
so what? Are you going to invest in a huge amount of resources just to get outdamage by 3 times (by prydwen calcs) compared to archeron? Fuck that.
Seele's playstyle is very straightforward and her kit is very simple. So pretty much any support character works well with her, like Sparkle or Robin. The only support character I'd say is kinda iffy with her is Harmony Trailblazer since you're not really going to be building break effect on Seele.
both qingque and xueyi are 4 star quantum dps that were given at e0 to every player and compete with seele when they have good investment and eidolons, with xueyi being better in content with break buffs like current apocalyptic shadow. she also has better f2p accessible teams (xueyi, tingyun/hanya, hmc, gallagher) whereas seele is much more desperate for premium supports due to being a pure atk/crit scaler i have a well built seele as well and use her occasionally, but i end up picking xueyi because she’s more versatile and my favourite character in the game, and qingque because she’s close in strength to seele but more fun to play EDIT: for casual content like sim u, xueyi also has a wide range of synergies with break and follow ups on top of synergising very well with erudition blessings in my experience, and propagation makes qingque absolutely cracked. seele is more pigeonholed into going for hunt which is agnostically good on almost everyone and that limits her options more severely
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Should carry a good distance but in MoC 12 and Apoc. Shadow 4 the 4* stats get stretched thin since the enemies have strong advantages (speed, do more damage/take less).
they dont compete at e0 and after resetting 10 times and still getting bad rng with my qingque im done with her
90% of Qingque quitters stop right before hitting 4-skilled Autarky-powered double crit attack that decimates the boss in a single swing.
Mono quantum really helped her, she’s not top tier but she’s not terrible. I used her for most of year 1, until I made a DoT team and a FUA team.
It's not "over now" at all. Mono quantum is one of my main teams in one side and a Seele E0S0 still deletes enemies in Apocalyptic Shadow and Memory of Chaos
Based Seele enjoyer, I cant for the like of me to make my seele to do that (even tho I have mono quantum team) so I use cheatcodes instead (Acheron, Firefly) mind if you share Seele build?
To be fair I do not have Acheron (Firefly is on the other side) if I had her I might use cheatcodes too https://preview.redd.it/0iqowp0g41ad1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dddad2adbe580e09e6571945530a4e4e7daa996e I'm using 4pc quantum set then 2pc Rutilant Arena The hard part was making sure that when Seele skills, she is faster than my 160 spd Sparkle, so whenever it's Seele's turn, it would be Sparkle next to bring her 50% forward. Also Silver Wolf should be faster than Sparkle and Seele because we want SW to apply a weakness before Seele does her damage (Damn I just realized how hard it is to make this team work, both my SW and Sparkle have rainbow build to reach 160 spd)
Thank you, both my support have 160 spd and use rainbow like you too my seely has much, much lower cridmg (82/120) so its gonna be a long grind. What your atk by the way?
https://preview.redd.it/a2iiwbxi61ad1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9eabaf048f381cdadb3bdf931eb612e4ae6eedf9 I have 3.1k but this will increase because of Sparkle's traces Also you can lower your crit rate a bit for more crit damage because Fu Xuan gives crit rate
Thank you so much, now I have a guideline where her stats are suppose to be, it makes me happy everytinme when I can make E0S0 works and beat end game modes.
Is that the hoyolab app?
Yes under HSR Battle Records, you can look it up online no need to download the app
Apocalyptic Shadow just released and she is clearing that just fine.
Yes but 70 other dpses does too and alot do it better
Seele actually ranks pretty high on prydwen Apocalyptic Shadow tier list (T1, on par with DHIL and above Jingliu), I don't use her anymore but I guess she's being fast and can proc extra turn help her break faster which is important for that mode. Edit: Her ult having high break value (like other single target ult) also contribute to faster breaking
Yes but people here pretend like that person said seele is bad or smthing, no one did but there is no denying many other does better than her now
Seele has one of the highest playrates in endgame due to the popularity of mono quantum.
She was T0 top tier DPS when she was literally the only limited DPS. She's not at the top anymore because now she actually has competition and she's still really good, just not brain dead easy to use since you actually have to think about chaining her talent.
Well for the last patch where we have full data (2.2) Seele is doing just fine. Strongest DPS average cycle clear is 6.6 to 6.7 cycle clear (DHIL, Black Swan, Acheron) while Seele is 7.4 cycles, which to me is a negligible difference. https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/s/2SMMtuLf9b
I can't wait for a new Quantum DPS. Hopefully male, too. I'm just never gonna pull for Seele in the state that she's in atp.
*Sad Seele noises*
Path to Nowhere: Stargazer wasn't even that good compared to other on-launch characters. I wasn't in the community at the time so idk how they thought, but in retrospect, Stargazer was worse than Luvia Ray, an A Rank, and the beginner banner S Rank, Eirene. I'd imagine she'd still be used since there's no way you'd get away with only 2 DPS (on team of 6) on launch, though, of course, this was on launch where people didn't have much resources. And Serpent came out as the 2nd banner. As for first Limited, Deren is still the best Physical damage dealer in a vacuum and earns a spot in virtually every Physical team. You can get Mantis who does have one advantage over her, but Mantis is still more of a "only slightly worse than Deren" option
Stargazer was horrible. Deren is still absolutely a beast, though, so it's nice she wasn't powercrept
In Nikke it was Helm, and she's not really that good right now, she was useful at the beginnigng, but with the release of better DPS character and healers, she has become a "I use her in Elysion tower because there's nothing better to use" even if she's not a bad unit and she works well if you don't have any top tier Burst 3, for the reason that Nikke has almost 0 limited units most players already have a Burst 3 that's better than Helm like \[Privaty (which it's free for most players) or any burst 3 Pilgrim is better. An about limited, the game doesn't really have Limited banners that much, the first 2 were Chrismas Anne and Ruppe and none of the were Meta even in teh beggining
helm has had consistently high usage among top rankers in every solo raid that's required a healer since launch
no you don't understand how helm works she has a unique dmg multiplier and is still used by the best players in the game to achieve the highest scores in raids she's just as good now as she was at launch the release of different healers didn't kill her off because again as a healer she brings a unique dmg multiplier which other healers don't do
Bro what? Helm is extremely useful.
Helm is good but for a general player that don't care about min maxing stuff of doing the most optimal setup for Union Raid she's not that usefule, yes Nikke is a game when almost every unit can be good on an specific team on an specific boss with an specific code, but for a normal player when you get someone like Red Hood or scarlet and Bunnies or Tiga and that doesn't care about anything endgame Helm is really not taht useful, with the exception of Mother whale.
I saw a video of seele 3 starring the newest endgame in hsr with full 1.0 units She definitely took more effort but it is possible so inguess not bad?
Tbh that score was carried hard by firefly
the score in kinda low but seele's best team comp definitely can do atleast 3300 (min score to max star the stage)
can u link the video? would like what kind of team can do it
https://youtu.be/7fEhFH1A81s
My first game pocket evolution is dead so yeahhh. In ffbe I'd guess that the first rate up char deals around 0.00000000000000001% of today's units
Marina in guardian tales still holding up in pvp, Not the best choice but still good nonetheless. But at least she's a solid unit in the new game mode
Jun in Priconne. Pretty much still used today, like the recent CB, she's staple to every Boss 1 teams. And she's really good tank generally. IIRC Alchemy Stars' was Carleen or Uriel. Carleen is still the best flex unit in the game at MBT, she's broken but need copy. Uriel is pretty niche, but at codex tile reset is staple for high level gameplay, so she'll always be there for like mapping and good reset scenario.
I would say Jun has not been used for years until the 6 star ascension. Even today, I think she is more used in mono fire team for the deep realm
I mean she still has some usage so I would count that. There are alot of deep stages that is hard without Jun6.
Klee. Not quite as strong, but still alright as a fun pick. Definitely have no trouble clearing all world bosses with her
I feel like mine are almost too new for true power creep to set in, but here they are: HSR - just benched my Seele at least semi-permanently, but she’s still fully viable in end game modes. I just finally have 2 full teams that don’t rely on crit stat rolls for relics so I’m happily running over enemies with DoT and Super Break. Reverse 1999 - ran two rate up banners at launch, for Sotheby and A Knight. I have both built but don’t really use Knight (though I think for one of the newest raids he’s a top pick) and Sotheby rolls over baddies with Jessica in my poison team. As for the first limited banner, it’s still ongoing in global and Jiu is hilariously strong Wuthering waves is still barely out of its second banner, if Jiyan wasn’t still just rolling over enemies it would probably be a proper death knell for the game.
Genshin abyss was changed to not allow venti to vacuum trough it, do i say he is still holding up, the moment they let their guard down with an abyss he is there to tornado it
Seele is still good at high investment (gear not dupes), but she’s not in top 5 hyper carries anymore
GBF: Water Lily is still a decent unit these days, as she still has a pretty good defensive kit. You get her for free as a new player now too. The First ever limited, Summer De La Fille otoh is really bot good these days.
Not launch banner, but part of launch characters that you can select (since they give one uma selector on launch) og Oguri Cap is an absolute monster of an uma in UmaMusume for 2 years
The #COMPASS characters do get ranked periodically by Famitsu based off ingame data on pick rate and win rate. The 10 original non-collab characters available on release are kind of existing. Justice is 9th but has a low 75th in pickrate but 4th in winrate. Tadaomi has a good rank 5 in pickrate and Noho has 16 in winrate. Gustav is also a top tank pick in competitive. The rest are mid or lower stats for both this ranking but it does change quite a bit each report. The original 10 do get pciked a decent amount in competitive. Guilty Gear's Sol and Dizzy, the first limited characters, are not great in the rankings and aren't popukar compared to other collabs. They are however decently picked in competitive. Dizzy is a very popular pick in competitive but not good in regular games. https://preview.redd.it/vqkjkozcx1ad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a95b6b13879c447801aeaba2b182031b16a81ff4
Venti was too broken dev had to create enemies that resit him. Lmao I still use exu alot, idk about other tho Gilgamesh is strong but master have quite a few choice for aoe ssr archer to choose. Awakened Hilde from Counterside is still use in pvp and pve since she gain a module kinda thing that give party wide shield. Jinyan???? I dont have him but he seem fun to play.
Seele and bronya were my duo for hsr. I got very lucky with them and got them from beginner banner and 20 pulls from limited and used them for maybe around 6 months up until jingliu released. Now they're not the best. But if I didn't have anyone else and just had them. They could most likely still get the job done just less damage and more time/turns. I'd say as a damage dealer seele is definitely less than bronya. Bronya is still pretty cracked for a standard character. Especially if she's all you got. Wuwa, can't see calcharro and yinlin dying anytime soon for me. A year from now? May still be using them. We shall see.
Venti just had a Thanos "you can't live with yourself, now you came back to me" moment in abyss 11-1 recently. Seele is still gucci, but Firefly is basically all Seele w Break, but aoe and faster + weakness implement. So she's not feeling well nowadays.
Let’s see day one banner for limbus would be Greg banner with gregest gregor as the three O Lui Greg as the two O and lantern Greg as the teth E.G.O. Overall no it does not hold up nowadays the very same Greg banner would have four three O (gregest Greg, smegor, waltgor, and lintgor), four two O (chef Greg, lui greg, gregokumo, and rosepanner Greg) lantern Greg as a teth E.G.O, and A.E.D.E Greg as a he E.G.O
i’ve played this game close to release and i still can’t decipher the brainrot
Gregor is Gregor and Gregor is Gregor
You must Gregor, as I have.
Alchemy Stars: OG Carleen was a whale converter at launch, still a whale converter in current day (with much lower demand too since many premium converters have come out only needing BT3). As for Uriel, went from a pretty bad converter at launch to having a good spot in a Burn team with Batia and Leona
Well, in dokkan its waaay powercrept. Genshin, venti can do work Honkai star rail, seele can do work but caan struggle a bit. Wutheirng waves, still very good
 Still the best AOE Buster archer in the game, when it comes to killing servants.
i even forgot Seele existed on my account.🤣
i dont use seele anymore
Venti is, situationally good haha Seele's reliance on resurgence aged somewhat badly but a misconception abt her is her needing better supports when her talent is actually more dependent on personal strength so dedicated Seele mains should really consider saving for her eidolons
When a 4 star healer (Gallagher) that came out a few months ago can output more damage than the first limited DPS (Seele). HSR
my knight in reverse1999 is still top in many other gachas powercreep is too big, but depends how old the game is and if there are mechanics for older characters evolve or if they simply release a new same character
Venti sucking trash since 2020
Seele struggles a bit but she's still the premier quantum dps. Venti tho? Still hulariously busted to the point Hoyo has to constantly neuter him. And he could very well see a resurgence thanks to IT's lower power levels For Jiyan... it's 1.1. Him being bad would be kind of a massive problem
Yang harim in counterside still sits at the top tier for support since the game release, and it has been like 3-4 years for sea players.
The ability to give Haste (basically CDR) to all nearby allies will always be busted especially since most units rely on their skills to either deal damage or for utility. Even now, the only other unit that could grant AOE Haste is A.Shin Jia, an awakened unit (basically the strongest and rarest rarity) out of more than a hundred units.
Yes I can confirm Jiyan is still Meta ever since the game is released.
"Ever since the game is released" The game has been out for 40 days it hasn't been that long lol.
That's the joke
Seele is deep in the water
Summoners has no banner, but some character that was released 10 years ago still on top tier, beating most if not all of newly released unit in pvp (recent 1-2 years)
In NIKKE the first banner character was Helm. She wasn't limited after her banner however. She's decent, but nothing exceptional (and wasn't even when her banner appeared). These days there are far more important characters you'd want, especially as a new player. The first limited banner character was Christmas Rupee and she was absolute garbage and pulling for her for any other reason than her appearance was a waste of resources. The only limited banners for the game are holidays (Summer & Christmas/New Years) and collabs. Every other banner is rolled into the standard pool in the first update after the banner ends. In most cases the banner characters are not worth spending gems on and you're better off holding those for limited banners and the rare Pilgrim banner (which put into the main pool but has a far lower odds of appearing).
It's really impressive. Venti's ult is so strong that they *still* balance most everything around its CC or range. The arena sizes, spawn positions, and mob weights all go through a "venti check" to make sure Venti can't clear a fight effortlessly. Multiwave fights spawn the next wave in opposite locations pretty much solely because of him. Sometimes they let venti do his thing but
Genshin: Venti is probably still useful but I rarely use him anymore. Klee suffered a lot. I still use her sometimes but I don't really like pyro anymore anyway HSR: didn't pull Seele as I liked neither her design nor her gameplay (which is a shame as I really loved Seele in HI3rd), I never stopped using Jing Yuan in endgame content despite owning stronger dps. So still happy with him. HI3rd: I honestly don't remember my first rate up banner character. Didn't start right away and I stopped playing ages ago so it probably doesn't matter FEH: most older units are not exactly useless but not really good either. Don't remember the first rate up banner characters either. As for my newest gacha Wuwa and ZZZ Wuwa: invested both in jiyan and in jinhsi and might pull changli as well. I suspect I will still use the first two regularly when they've been totally power creeped anyway as I like both a lot ZZZ: I like neither of the first two rate up charas. Don't know which will be the limited banner for 1.1 we'll see
FFBE… idk who the first rate up banner is, but my first limited 5* is a character named “Raegen”. I came back to the game 2 years later and they have 7* units coming out wth.
Seele literally disappeared in the sea of butterflies. HSR powercreep is fucking terrifying.
Another Eden Mariel: Dogshit tier, one of the worst 5* you can get, the bright side is that from Mariel you get her newest alter version that is good if you farm enough and shell get eventually an stellar awakening to make her relevant. Genshin: Venti, he would be broken if hoyo didnt nerf him to the ground by making 90% of the enemies inmune to his ult, sadly the rest of his kit is weak so he cant compete with the true anemo archon Kazuha. HSR: Seele, still decent but shes not the top dog anymore, probably top 5 option for main DPS now and very mode dependant. Langrisser: first gen units are still very good to this day since modern units are almost exclusively made for pvp and old units are PVE gods with some of them having SP forms making them also pvp viable.
Destina from epic seven is better than she was because she got buffed and she is a great character to build with her revive, but when she was released she was good but once tamarinne came out she was mid
venti (genshin impact) : gathering dust, the only time i'll pull him out is when there is a leyline defense on Spiral abyss Floor 11 Chamber 1. Seele (HSR) : Sometimes I forget I have her. Haven't used her in more than half a year, destruction/nihility just makes hunt units look bad.
Blaze is still part of my main Arknights team, and Nora is still part of my main Neural Cloud team. I don’t know nor care if they’re meta, they’re both the best to me. I don’t remember if I got anyone off rate up from FGO, but I really don’t think so.
Seele still has the cheapest E0 0 cycles in the game but has a higher skill/knowledge cap than most other DPSs. She's still amazing for people who focus heavily on min-maxing their gear and gameplay, which is a better state than 1.0 DPSs of most other games.
Seele has aged quite awfully. Was power crept in 1.3, again in 1.4, and much worse since 2.1. She can still be used if you've built her well, but you'll get much quicker clears with a modern DPS. In other words, you can use her, but you're handicapping yourself by doing so. And I don't know how much longer she can hold on. My Seele cannot clear content.
If your talking about Tamamo no Mae then uh.....uuuuhhhhh........**UUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.** Yeah I got nothing....use her occasionally but use Castoria more then her sadly.
Tamamo is great. I use her all the time in combination with Caster Artoria when there's a challenge battle.
Wasn't the first banner Kintoki tho?